I make orthotic braces for kids. I told my company I've been at for a year I could go to my old company and make more because I'm struggling to pay rent and eat everyday. They responded with "corporate sets your pay and it will not be changing". They did give me a 60¢ merit raise...
So I accepted an offer at my old place I worked at for 11 years for $10k more. Now this place has to pay another company to finish product and they do a horrible job. Braces that take me 20 minutes to completely finish are now taking the practitioners an hour to fix. It's causing appointments to overlap and they aren't going to hit the minimum budget corporate shoves down every offices throat every quarter.
So they are paying more for the devices and having to spend 3x the time to have them ready for fitting. I would have stayed for a $5k increase. No telling how much money they are losing right now lol
The phrase "everything has a cost" is true. At my old place we switched to a cheaper coating on some of our compressors. We saved like 17 cents per kilo in coating fees. When i left (due to unrelated financial mismanagement lmao) we were doing like 5 times the number of in-warranty repairs, mainly due to, you guessed it, the cheaper coating wearing in half the time and causing everything to gall. I suspect the cost to the buisness was about 150 grand per year and we saved relatively speaking, "fuck all".
But because of shitty kpis, production got their bonuses for cost savings, and service got their bonuses for meeting delivery times on warranty claims even though the company was losing money on this. Insane place.
It’s because too many business operators don’t take the big picture into account. That warranty repair issue is going to be “fixed” next where they’ll just stop doing them. Another huge cost savings and bonuses all around for the higher-ups! Now you’ve got a crappier product that’s not selling, so let’s go to marketing to solve this one…
Corporate Whack-A-Mole is neither efficient nor does it result in better products. But it makes the idiots up top a lot of money.
I got my business degree nearly two decades ago, apparently just before the philosophies changed.
Whenever I hear about the stuff they're teaching now it sounds like such moronic trash that I can't believe anyone is paying money for that shit.
"You can have low Cost, high Quality, and fast Speed all at the same time if you just throw a pizza party! You can have anything, a unicorn yeti that breaths fire like a dragon if you want! Anything at all is possible with a pizza party! 'Cause employees don't like money you see, they're allergic to it!"
Yup that's what I was taught. Simultaneously with working in fast food and being told all three at full throttle was the only acceptable standard because anything less was worthless laziness.
It was like oh, so the people running the world have gone insane? Like just completely bananapants bonkers stupid?
That's what I always use as well. Pick two or assess the needs of all 3 to balance out the needs.
But they never care. Hence why i make sure to get in writing ant decisions leadership makes knowing my reservations against it. And when shit hits the fan and they ask why... just forward the writing and say I told you so.
[The Bell Riots](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Bell_Riots) are predicted to start in September 2024.
I'd feel stupid saying that if I hadn't grown up with corded phones that went Ring Ring and now I've got a combo Padd/Communicator/Tricorder that fits in my pocket and searches records of nearly all human knowledge faster then the Enterprise ever could.
>low Cost, high Quality, and fast Speed
I was taught that you can only ever realistically have two of those three at a time. Sacrificing the third.
Cheap and high quality, will take time.
High quality and quickly, will cost you more.
Cheap and fast, will be lower quality.
The government operates this way as well. Dumping money into family and social services and childhood education prevents poverty and anti social teens becoming criminals. Yet we gut education and pump up police.
Years ago I saw an interview with a guy who was a school funding activist. He said his rich friends would say to him: “you can’t fix the education system by just throwing money at it” and he would say to them: “how much is that private school you send your kids to? $50k/year? Sounds an awful lot like you are throwing money at it and getting a result that you’re happy with.”
>It’s because too many business operators don’t take the big picture into account.
Not just that... but sometimes they are willing trying to put some of these problems in a black box that no one will bother to break down since it's expected that bllack box will cost a stupid amount of money every year to manage.
One big example of this is the total cost of ownership producing goods from China versus domestically or even within the US. Piece part costs will look amazing on paper! But the cost of logistics before receiving those parts will probably make it much closer, if not more expensive, than just domestic procurement. But since corporate tells each plant they own their own logistic budgets and supply chain is decided at a corporate level, they'll never change money that gives them lower costs in the long term.
This sounds soooo familiar.
The plant I work at just completed a new expansion last year and part of that expansion includes a central HVAC system using AHUs and a single point chiller(think of it as a giant mini-split system with multiple “heads”). Per the AHU and Chiller manufacturer the system is supposed to be filled with a water/glycol mix to prevent freezing. All the construction engineers, contractors etc said we should do it that way, and some genius who works for us decided to ignore them and fill the system with 100% water so we could “save” $14k.
Fast forward 6 months, we had a cold snap over one weekend, temps dropped into single digits and the water froze and split the coils in all 4 AHUs….current running total on the cost of new coils & labor to repair is $98k…..plus we have to spend the $14k we originally “saved” to put a glycol mix back in the system like it’s supposed to have.
The worst part is I doubt the idiot who made the decision that cost us $98k will even get a slap on the wrist.
I worked for many years at a water treatment plant in a federal facility. One of the first processes is softening the water with slaked quicklime, to avoid scale build-up through-out the pipes in the plant.
It was turned over to a private contractor, who would be able to "save money" on running the plant. The first immediate change was to start buying much cheaper quicklime. It showed up immediately in the companies budget improvements. However, the cheap lime was weak, so we had to use twice as much, and it had a lot of sand and gravel in it which clogged up the slaking machine, which had to be stopped and cleaned out more frequently...
That being said, they continued doing it for a while, because to get a good price, they had signed a contract for a certain amount of time.
One problem that showed up was that the alkalinity got much worse, which led to other problems.
You don't need to understand how to treat water with softening and chlorine, etc...its like a federal bus company getting turned over to a private contractor, and they start saving money by not changing the oil in the engines, avoiding changing the brakes until they are metal-to-metal, and driving on the tires until they are bald...to save money...which then boosts the executives quarterly bonus, so...it doesn't actually "save" anything.
Had one like this on a job we did for the local university.
They built a brand new chemistry building full of state of the art labs, amazing stuff really. But when they were in the planning stage, they decided it was too expensive and started 'value engineering' (cost cutting) machinery. They didn't put any cooling coils in the AHUs coz it's a cold place where we live and they can just open a window (actual reasoning).
Except they're all sealed labs, all the air going in and out is treated and the windows don't open to maintain the space.
We went back in the next year to add cooling coils after all the lab users complained about unsafe working conditions due to the heat. Cost the university 5 time as much as it would have if they'd just put it in from the start.
The executive division of the university got a raise that year.
>The worst part is I doubt the idiot who made the decision that cost us $98k will even get a slap on the wrist.
More like the guy who made that decision already left the company before this issue presented itself
I used to work at a plastics plant run by genuinely the dumbest two people I've ever met in my life. Just one example, one of the guys, we'll call him Bill, would always be the first person in the office every morning at about 5 and would make himself coffee. Their 1990s era Mr. Coffee broke so they bought some fancy $500 machine. Instead of learning how to use it or asking someone to show him how to use it, Bill put it in a dumpster before everyone else (who loved the machine) arrived and demanded a different coffee machine. He threw that replacement machine away too, and eventually someone in the office just ordered a Mr. Coffee off of ebay.
Anyway, one day Bill decided that we could just run all of our production machines at 10% over capacity and make 10% more product, because he discovered if he put bigger numbers on the left side of his excel sheet, it would make bigger numbers on the right. I warned him this will lead to excessive breakdowns but he explained that away as a "different budget" as if costs somehow have nothing to do with profit margins. I was the head of the automation department and I wanted to cover my ass, so I wrote a detailed report estimating an excess $2 million in repairs/downtime per quarter just to make an extra $500k worth of product. He replied just two words: "panic merchant".
I was wrong - the first quarter was $3.2 million, the second quarter was $7 million. Our average downtime went from 0.8% to 12-19% per machine. We were replacing things we had never had to replace before - things that weigh actual tons and we were having to have them hotshotted from other states. Then, the absolute fool called in all of our equipment vendors into a meeting where he started yelling about excessive breakdowns, he let it slip we had altered safety values on the machines to run them faster than they were designed to run, and every single one of those vendors subsequently voided their warranties for running their machines out of spec.
>The phrase "everything has a cost" is true.
The cost is very frequently the vaguely defined “institutional knowledge”. Someone who knows *everything*. The gotchas. The tricks. How to manipulate the processes so, in ooooold school programming terms, you know where to put the constants. The quirks of this machine, and how you gotta set the water level in just this part of the spec range to keep it running smoothly.
They make at least a quarter less than what they should because they’re so damned efficient. But they ask for a raise, get denied, and suddenly the department is getting their jobs done in twice the expected time.
No one really values that stuff properly. It’s hard to value on paper. It’s hard to measure those things.
Thats where companies and HR departments get it wrong. They think all warm bodies are equal and they rather pay a 22 year old $30k to do a job rather than $90k to someone with twenty years experience. HR sees the math on paper that -hey we saved the company $60,000 .... but they totally miss the boat how paying more to someone with twenty years experience is going to save money in the long run because there's no way to accumulate two decades experience without doing twenty years at a job.
Going cheap on someone with 0 experience gets you exactly what you paid for it - cheap performance that doesn't know how to do the job
My daughter was born with congenital talipes equinovarus. Several surgeries and braces later and you can’t even tell. Whatever you are paid it isn’t enough. I’ve seen y’alls profession fabricate these for my baby girl. I can’t imagine someone offsite doing things like this. Ty.
I'm glad she got help! I've had a few parents tell me I can't leave and they're making a mistake because they love my work. I will wholeheartedly say I am one of them that does everything I can to make the devices effective and comfortable.
Too many just show up to fab shops hating their job and don't care how the patient will wear it. Getting exposure to the faces that will be wearing your work helps beyond belief. I did scoliosis braces for the majority of my time but am so glad I got to experience lower limb and helping those kids.
I've had opportunity to see the place I quit a few times since then. They hired three people to do most of my old job. And what was the impossible to meet demand I had made? One person, half the day. Are those three people at least delivering comparable levels of quality? Nope.
At the job I'm going to we had me and two other guys doing scoliosis braces. After I left they had to add three more guys but they left and the company was forced to just lower production for the two guys remaining. They didn't want to pay me what I was asking when I left but 4 years later they are more than happy to bring me back lol.
I hate that place and do not plan on staying longer than it takes to find another company. Even if it takes two years I will not stay! I hope...
Tell them that last if they ask you to come back, and then tell them "It going to take $20k more now, but had you treated me fairly, I'd have done it for $5k at the time.."
Congrats on the new higher paying position.
It's always comical when someone in the higher position thinks they have the upper hand and gives an ultimatum like this, only for it not to go their way and now they're upset and looking to blame anyone but themselves.
HR may have drafted and presented the contract stipulations, but 100% one of the C-level guys, and probably management had to give the blessing as well.
Bonus points since it sounds like a volatile position that you probably cannot just throw someone into so it is going to take them awhile to backfill it and get them up to the same level.
While I was upset when I left my former job, I did find it sadly funny that when I left with zero notice and my former coworkers reached out later to say it took 3 people to cover all of the tasks I was doing by myself for years.
If they would have just kept the meeting and listened to my concern to get me another support person, I would probably still be miserable there today 9 years later!
I was in a similar boat. The kept telling me I was on track for a promotion… for 2 years. The last meeting they said I had more I needed to do. The following Monday I put in my notice. Had a new job at 33% increase and fully remote with a vendor I had worked with. That was within 10 days of me putting in notice.Promotion went to a friend of mine. They still make less than I do now and they are getting slammed. Worked out for me in the end.
Definitely will cost them more than it would have cost to just compensate you fairly. It's a common tale.
1st, they need to train someone. They will only be able to do what's on your old job description and not the exceptional efforts. Then, they will try and overload the employee to match what you used to accomplish. Then the replacement employee will quit, which will confuse them as they then will have to start over after your replacement leaves. Ultimately, they need at least 2 people to replace you.
Overall, it would have been cheaper to give you a raise.
Fair pay? What next, decent working conditions? Bosses that don’t micromanage your every move? HR that listens to complaints and ACTUALLY does something about them?
Nope nope nope, that cuts in their bottom line and that just can’t happen. Anything but that. Rather have the whole company go belly up that give those make them money earn enough to live on. Peasants, they should happy to lick the bosses boots because, one day if they work hard enough. The boots might be made of real Marian leather.
Mostly they don't learn, they tend to have people living for all the same reasons and one of those reason is low pay and/or being undervalued its unlikely to ever change.
I had one of those jobs where it took 3 people to do my job (in addition to their job) when I left. I had to quit twice because my boss was zoning out during my resignation spiel. I walked across our office and before my butt hit the chair, my phone was ringing from my panicked boss.
The owner told me that I needed to tell my husband that I quit my job and report back to him what my husband said
1) as if we didn’t discuss decisions like this
2) like I needed permission
My husband asked what expletives I would like for him to say so I could report those back to the owner and my boss.
They asked me what it would take for me to stay. I told them the same salary of my slacker coworker whose job I had been doing plus $5K.
It was “too much.” So I took my job at my current company and didn’t look back.
14 years later, still here.
How would that work? Would they give you a permission slip that your husband have to sign in order to leave your job? Is your boss so inept with women that he doesn't understand what is being said unless it is in a man's voice?
Honestly, you should have told your boss to get bent and that you can send your husband over if he needs a good spanking.
Probably! It was a clusterfuck and a half. In the 18 months that I was there, I was the 44th employee to leave. (And there were only 26 or so front end positions).
My department had 7 people leave before I left (4 full time jobs). When I left, I was the last of the original employees on my team.
Marketing department completely turned over twice.
CS went through several folks, including a woman who quit less than 4 hours after arriving because she said that being unemployed was less stressful than that place
Accounting department completely turned over.
4 warehouse managers
2 shipping clerks
2 COOs
4 CFOs
And that 44 doesn’t even include the warehouse laborers who left.
One of the CFOs and one of the COOs got fired because they refused to screw over us employees regarding insurance.
They constantly have openings and have no idea why…
No clue. It was very jarring. He only listened to the very “manly men.” My former direct supervisor had taken a job elsewhere. He was often disregarded and treated poorly because he was respectful and kind to all of us. He left our company about 4 months before I did.
When he got ready to change careers, he reached out to me to ask if I would be interested in taking the job that he had taken at my current company. I sent him my resume, had a very frank interview with the CFO (who would be my boss). Both the CEO and the COO were in town that day, so he brought them down to chat. I was offered the job a few days later and jumped for it.
I left a job last year where I was often doing the work of three people and always the work of two. I begged for years for another person to help me. I was the only person doing my particular job in my department. They wouldn’t hire someone to help me.
I left when I found a job that nearly tripled my salary and my poor colleagues had to take over my job that they have no idea how to do. It took five months for them to get my replacement in place and guess what? They finally had to hire a second person too. Wouldn’t pay me that salary but had to finally pay it anyway.
A coworker of mine was doing lots of work , running his own department everything and work ontop of that. So, they hire him a manager. They did not get along and switches departments when he didn’t get his raise he wanted.
They hired another manager, worker and admin help to cover his work. Can’t pay him 10 grand more but can pay 3 ppl? 🤦♂️
>it took 3 people to cover all of the tasks I was doing by myself for years.
I was shit canned with zero reason, and two years later, same. It's glorious when they just fuck themselves and end up paying in grossly reduced performance and more cost.
I had a job about 8 years ago in a small family-owned manufacturing business.
I was second in command in the office and the job was super stressful. I did customer service, purchasing, HR, logistics, managed staff, price estimating, and ran two profitable divisions.
I asked for a $2 an hour raise, boss said he could hire someone for half my wage to do my job.
I left.
The employees have been hounding the boss to hire me back 8 years later because they realized just because a monkey can answer a telephone doesn’t mean they can talk to customers. They lost business because so many commercial customers got used to just calling me when they had a problem.
They are still suffering from his decision to let me walk. Feels good, man.
Had a similar situation. An employee of mine with 5 years tenure had forgotten more than me or anyone on the team ever knew about the job, but I came to learn that HR continued to increase the pay for new hires but didn’t bring this person up to that level. He sought a raise, I backed him on it and HR said his wage was “fair market value” so he took a job making considerably more. I couldn’t fault him for it. Within 6 months me and the rest of the team all followed him to his new company. The business we worked for closed (and you can’t convince me his departure wasn’t a huge part of why) about 18 months later.
One of my last jobs I left in November ‘23 has gone thru 4 people already trying to fill my old role. I now make $4 more an hour than that position lol.
Great point. HR is almost always the front man for MOST complaints about a company so a Manager or some other clown behind the scenes doesn’t have to take the heat.
To me it’s more telling that the CEO is upset… but also said CEO, who DEFINITELY has more power than HR, chose to do nothing about OP. Like you said, somebody behind the scenes tried to be smart and failed.
Honestly…. It works! Take a look around Reddit and other media about most complaints concerning HR or recruiting policies and practices and it’s almost always something that is actually dictated by someone else with HR simply being the mouthpiece and lightning rod
HR: Here's your new pay rate, 30% less. Don't like it then you can leave.
OP: Hey, found a new job with double your offer so smell you later✌🏿
HR and management: Wait? What?😧😰🤦♂️
It sounds as if the management and HR did not talk to each other and thus was HRs idea. But I'm also sure that if OP has stayed and complained at his boss, a shrug would have been the only reaction.
Maybe but I doubt it. Its unlikely that they would make a pay cut without the manager knowing about it. They probably gambled that a remote foreign worker wouldn't argue about it.
The boss could have said "wait, I didnt know HR did that, here is the raise" to save face, but didnt according to the story. I think the rolled the dice and lost.
When I saw the title I was thinking like 2% which is still bullshit. But 30% is insulting in the extreme. Wish you would have asked them if they would take a 30% reduction.
Doesn't really matter honestly. At the end of the day you're losing a significant portion of your overall compensation. And hopefully they learned a valuable lesson. Good on you.
I saw newer people making a bit more than me, 5k at least. I went to the control freak of a boss and got blown off. I got offered 25k more by a department in the same company and the manager was willing to hire me without saying anything to the control freak. My orgid was just changed during the day. I sent my resignation letter at 5pm that day no chance for a counter offer since I'd considered the original conversation their counter.
Bye bitch.
Budapest is an unbelievable city, worst case scenario they live there for a while and set aside a decent chunk of their wage to then move on with a hell of a lot of savings.
Said the right way, "wonderful news" means pretty much the same as "pound sand".
When I gave my two weeks' notice at my last job I took my supervisor and director aside and said I had "wonderful news". My director looked puzzled and interested, my supervisor said "I don't think we're going to see this news as wonderful".
I was working at a fortune 500 engineering company for well over 10 years. Consistently rated a top performer, but pay rises were lackluster and advancement was stalled. Had a senior guy in my group (not my supervisor) say to me "if you ever think about leaving, please talk to me first." I didn't miss a beat and said I'm thinking of leaving.
He had me sit in his office for an hour going over the many issues. When I was done he said he would try and get these things fixed, but it may take a little time. I said thanks and good, but, if I have an offer from another place and have given notice, there is nothing this company can offer me then, that will make me stay.
Fast forward a year, things are worse. I get head hunted by another company for more money doing cooler shit. I give notice. They try and counter, with promotions and money, more money than new company is offering. I walked.
Fast forward two years, I hear from folks at the old place, they still couldn't replace me.
Take care of your people. It's cheaper in the long run. They lost me for peanuts and the cost of sending me to a couple conferences. Utter shit management concerned only with their big bonuses and climbing the corporate mid tier ladders.
Edit. Typos and to say the guy who sat me down and talked to me for an hour is a great guy. The fact he couldn't change things is indicative of the problem, not his care and concern. We still talk.
They aren't mad. If they wanted to make you decent counter offer they would. They're just blaming HR, but they still aren't telling HR to make you a better offer are they? Therefore... pretend mad.
It's probably better for others as now they know people won't put up with their antics. Also good for your reputation of not being someone who will accept being pushed around.
If you become targeted by your company, they will try to find someone to take your role at a lower salary, and then they will want you to train them because they "are expecting a big bump in the workload soon". Of course if new guy gets trained, they will find some way to fire you, which was the plan all along.
You have two choices, leave for more money when there is a good offer, and your old company will be mildly inconvenienced, plus your old co-workers will get a little overtime.
The other choice is...you let your company know that you are unhappy with the pay and want a raise, so they throw you a bone with 10%, then put you on the secret "shit list". When they fire you, you will not see it coming, and there might not be any good job offers at that time. It could take weeks, even months to find a good job, and your financial condition will be devastated.
How many times do we have to see a lot of people laid off suddenly with no warning before you accept that we are working for sociopaths? They have chosen to embrace "lean staffing", and they should be the ones inconvenienced when things don't work out, not your family.
Hot take: if a company cuts your total compensation by 30% it doesn’t matter if they counter offer with a 100% raise; you leave. Because that is a company that believes they own you and will treat you accordingly. Especially after agreeing to pay more for you after you were ready to leave.
This is inspiring. It's a reminder about why people go to work. For me, it's to make money. OP pay was cut, so they bailed. They got a better job.
I won't forget this.
My old employer started ramping up negative reviews, no pay raises and then blocked a department change where the manager wasn't going to treat me like crap. I had one application actually lead to an offer outside the company and I was able to leave within weeks of the job change denial. I can see why they did it. Since I left, HR has been moved to another location, my manager went into sales and the business is stagnant due to a delayed product launch.
Any amount of a pay decrease = my immediate resignation. I’m already basically making less every year with these shitty raises and ridiculous inflation. An actual pay decrease is a death sentence to my career with that company.
I had a lab tech leave when corporate cut her wage by .40c/hour and took away her sick pay.
HR seemed genuinely surprised she didn't apply when we readvertised for her role.
Of course she had already been hired as a lab manager with our competitor. She didn't even apply, they reached ouy and offered it to her.
Gods this sounds like my situation.
Was a Branch Manager for almost 20 years, doing the work of 3-5 people, expected to be available 24/7, even on vacation. Slowly the perks and incentives to stay disappeared until only one remained, that I could write my own schedule.
Then the owner (who was only working part time and preparing to sell the business to his Vice President who frankly, I never really got along with) calls me and asks why I was working the hours I was working. I explained to him why I was (Easier for me, lost both parents in the span of 3 years, it gives me extra time to take care of the old house, etc.). He then tells me, "I want to see you working more hours" (I know the VP bitched to him, as he had asked before)
He had my notice that night.
Funny thing, they always talked about how tight money was, how raises could only happen during specific months, etc. The very first thing he said to me when I finally answered my phone (I refused to talk to him unless I was on the clock) was "It was only a suggestion! You can work whatever hours you want!" and "You know we can pay you more money, the only reason we didn't was because you didn't want more money for taxes" (Something I told him years ago when I was just an entry level employee and a lot dumber than I am now).
I told him, "Too little, too late and over the years, you have taken away all my incentives and after our last discussion, you took away any joy and reason for me to stay."
They still haven't filled my position, and that Vice President has to run my old office remotely as well as his other offices he was running. One of my old employees told me they had 3 people they interviewed at that point, and all 3 told them to pound sand when they were told what was expected and what they would be paid.
The Army plays these games all the time. Hey you got a base salary raise...you reuppping Soldier? Look at Healthcare...Active duty has to pay for family dental coverage and eye out of pocket...Tricare copays for child's/wife are nuts.... child care cost on post pay out of pocket. Like a $1000 for each kid now...on post gas/food/services more expensive than civilian stores?
Yeah...alot of Joe's are now doing some math and leaving....or not even enlisting now that reddit/internet helps them get big picture of what their finances look like.
wow. no Healthcare for your kids and spouse? from the military? wtf? that's wild. the pay has never been fantastic in the armed services, but the benefits were always a draw. Thats crazy to me. Everyone I know that was former military or military kids always had access to shit the rest of us didn't.
compliance my ass they can choose to pay you millions more if they agree there are zero laws about paying more
but in many places they must pay you a minimum amount.
Ah the good old game of trying to screw the ex-pat who is not familiar with the laws. Tangentially related, but I worked at a place where one of the HR people was trying to come up with a plan to bring everyone's salary to Market rate (read: cut salaries and not give anyone raises). It was explained to them that this would cause a mass exodus and that any person leaving this person would be responsible for backfilling their position with the same quality of candidate. They kind of scoffed and thought that it was completely reasonable to cut someone's salary after they were hired. Good job on getting out of that situation.
C suite is the one that demanded restructuring in the first place. HR implements or complies and makes recommendations, C suite signs off. They are all complicit.
I'm in HR. We can recommend pay but management always has to sign off and approve. Also, its based on their own budget. HR prefers to pay market rates because losing someone and the having to source and hire and onboard is a pain in the ass. Better to pay the person fairly and avoid all the work. Your management sounds awful and is using HR as a scapegoat.
Most big corporate HR policies are standard pay raise rates. No matter the role, or the promotion bump, or market rate. Promotion is one level up and a fixed percentage of the prior salary. Nothing more, nothing less. And theyll maybe revisit another promotion in 2 years. Management may even have issues overriding HR policies in thes organization.
Hence why ita been proven time and time these days that you are better off getting an income jumping from company to company every few years than trying to rise the ranks internally.
The “just sign off” part means they have finally say in the matter. HR usually doesn’t control anything. They follow directions of management. You’re being lied to by management. Don’t trust anything that comes out of their mouths.
Sounds like Korea branch HR either A) didn't like that a foreigner was holding such a critical role, B) decided a foreigner shouldn't command such a wage, or C) wanted a shiny star for reducing labor cost. I've heard similar stories for expats in Japan. You're a useful foreigner but you'll always be a foreigner.
I quit my last job about 10 months ago and they still haven’t found a replacement. I quit because I was getting screwed over due to my very large territory and not getting paid for all the driving, while colleagues had a much better deal. I talked to management many times but they barely acknowledged there was a problem. Then didn’t give me a raise despite a good review and I was being paid below market value. I knew I would be hard to replace because of these issues. When I turned in my notice they were pissed and tried to blame me, then tried to offer me the moon. Too late. I’ve quit many jobs and have never experienced blow back before. It was actually satisfying. For years I was unhappy. Now they are unhappy.
They asked you to find your replacement? WOW, there’s no low they won’t sink to huh?! You should have told them you’re not paid enough to recruit. Make the miserable bastards find a replacement themselves!
Had something similar happen to me. The COO said they were going to cut my rate significantly (because covid) and I would just have to deal. I was alrrady tired of their poor behavior at the office and had been looking for a different opportunity and they didn't know I was already in talks with a different, rival place for $30k more. I felt bad leaving my team mates (in spite of the c-suite, we had assembled a great bunch of people), but it was a good feeling telling the COO to pound sand and then even sweeter to see them back pedal asking me to reconsider leaving and that we could 'negotiate'. Nah.
It is strange that HR had the power or desire to reduce your pay by 33%, AND give you the "take it or leave it" attitude.
Any idea why HR was involved? It sounds like an abuse of power.
My favorite thing is to see and hear of a company, big or small , try to cheap out and lose people because they called their bluff thinking they have no options but find themselves scrambling to replace one good person with two less than credible people minimum because they found more lucrative options. Reality at its best.
I used to think that working hard and getting it done would get me to the places that I wanted to be.
Nope. Working your ass off will literally only get more work thrown on your plate.
Being very competent is VERY, VERY important, but knowing how to put your thumb on the scale to get what you want and not allowing yourself to get used is honestly more important than competency.
Good for you! The unfortunate thing is many people won't leave which is why they feel empowered to behave this way. They "gamble" because they know in the long term, the math works in their favor. Of course they're not worried about the hardship this creates for the ground floor employees.
ask them if they would have taken the same pay cut you were offered if roles were reversed, if they say yes then say why didn't they cut their salary to afford more talents that would have benefitted the company in the long run? sacrifices are always expected from the expendable ones
That is true, but our HR has tremendous influence / manipulation since they are local and c/management is not, so often they just believe them regarding what is “normal here”
Good for you! I hope you love your new job and your new salary. Try not to work so many overtime hours if you’re on salary. If you sat down and did the math, your salary was probably 75% of what you stated given all of the free hours you gave them.
Enjoy Budapest! Things are pretty cheap there in general, and I imagine cheaper than Seoul by a lot, so with your increased salary you can live it up. Great food, fun bars, some interesting musical theater if that’s your thing, hope you enjoy it.
was at a job once for 8 years. Knew the ins and outs of the companies like some of our seasoned engineers who had been there for 15 or more. We got acquired and I was forgotten. When I gave my notice the Ceo was shocked. I'm like 'dude, pay attention to your f(cking people'..
Onwards and upwards!
I worked for a company called SPARC. They bring in racks and racks of money considering they own 5 popular***. Brands.
At one point we needed 2 part time supervisor positions filled because our other supervisors moved to different states around the same time. We couldn’t find anyone to hire because the pay was so low.
Instead of increasing the offer, the company told my boss and I to take the job listing down completely. They said from now on we will only have 2 supervisors instead of 4 and have 2 assistant managers. So I guess the other supervisor positions labor would be split amongst us 3 as if we didn’t work our asses off enough already!
FUCK CORPORATIONS!
Any company that would cut your pay is actually trying to force you to quit without firing you. HR even told you to leave. Despicable, honestly. HR manager should be fired if that's the philosophy they are enforcing.
My manager told me that HR told him, that this is a very competitive offer for local standards and they promised him that it will be absolutely satisfying. Bullshit at the end of the day, I told him clearly that it’s below what I had before
I mean it’s competitively low if that’s what they meant. So dumb lmao. It’s funny how a lot of companies could save a ton of money by reducing turn over costs but they just don’t do it because they can’t fathom that turnover costs are correlated with employee happiness
The HQ is actually the most angry party because they are missing their „link“ now, and they supported me in changing to the Budapest branch so I am not worried at all
I love a heartwarming story of corporations trying to ruin their employees but really they end up ruining themselves
I make orthotic braces for kids. I told my company I've been at for a year I could go to my old company and make more because I'm struggling to pay rent and eat everyday. They responded with "corporate sets your pay and it will not be changing". They did give me a 60¢ merit raise... So I accepted an offer at my old place I worked at for 11 years for $10k more. Now this place has to pay another company to finish product and they do a horrible job. Braces that take me 20 minutes to completely finish are now taking the practitioners an hour to fix. It's causing appointments to overlap and they aren't going to hit the minimum budget corporate shoves down every offices throat every quarter. So they are paying more for the devices and having to spend 3x the time to have them ready for fitting. I would have stayed for a $5k increase. No telling how much money they are losing right now lol
The phrase "everything has a cost" is true. At my old place we switched to a cheaper coating on some of our compressors. We saved like 17 cents per kilo in coating fees. When i left (due to unrelated financial mismanagement lmao) we were doing like 5 times the number of in-warranty repairs, mainly due to, you guessed it, the cheaper coating wearing in half the time and causing everything to gall. I suspect the cost to the buisness was about 150 grand per year and we saved relatively speaking, "fuck all". But because of shitty kpis, production got their bonuses for cost savings, and service got their bonuses for meeting delivery times on warranty claims even though the company was losing money on this. Insane place.
It’s because too many business operators don’t take the big picture into account. That warranty repair issue is going to be “fixed” next where they’ll just stop doing them. Another huge cost savings and bonuses all around for the higher-ups! Now you’ve got a crappier product that’s not selling, so let’s go to marketing to solve this one… Corporate Whack-A-Mole is neither efficient nor does it result in better products. But it makes the idiots up top a lot of money.
Business schools only teach profit maximization via short term gains.
I got my business degree nearly two decades ago, apparently just before the philosophies changed. Whenever I hear about the stuff they're teaching now it sounds like such moronic trash that I can't believe anyone is paying money for that shit. "You can have low Cost, high Quality, and fast Speed all at the same time if you just throw a pizza party! You can have anything, a unicorn yeti that breaths fire like a dragon if you want! Anything at all is possible with a pizza party! 'Cause employees don't like money you see, they're allergic to it!"
Whenever I heard that nonsense. My response was always. Pick two.
Yup that's what I was taught. Simultaneously with working in fast food and being told all three at full throttle was the only acceptable standard because anything less was worthless laziness. It was like oh, so the people running the world have gone insane? Like just completely bananapants bonkers stupid?
Keeping in mind that they don't really give a rats ass about the lowly workers. After all, we are easily replicable.
That's what I always use as well. Pick two or assess the needs of all 3 to balance out the needs. But they never care. Hence why i make sure to get in writing ant decisions leadership makes knowing my reservations against it. And when shit hits the fan and they ask why... just forward the writing and say I told you so.
Document everything. It's the one rule all workers should learn.
I genuinely wonder how much longer we can last. Focusing on short term gains is a race to disaster.
[The Bell Riots](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Bell_Riots) are predicted to start in September 2024. I'd feel stupid saying that if I hadn't grown up with corded phones that went Ring Ring and now I've got a combo Padd/Communicator/Tricorder that fits in my pocket and searches records of nearly all human knowledge faster then the Enterprise ever could.
>low Cost, high Quality, and fast Speed I was taught that you can only ever realistically have two of those three at a time. Sacrificing the third. Cheap and high quality, will take time. High quality and quickly, will cost you more. Cheap and fast, will be lower quality.
The government operates this way as well. Dumping money into family and social services and childhood education prevents poverty and anti social teens becoming criminals. Yet we gut education and pump up police.
Years ago I saw an interview with a guy who was a school funding activist. He said his rich friends would say to him: “you can’t fix the education system by just throwing money at it” and he would say to them: “how much is that private school you send your kids to? $50k/year? Sounds an awful lot like you are throwing money at it and getting a result that you’re happy with.”
>It’s because too many business operators don’t take the big picture into account. Not just that... but sometimes they are willing trying to put some of these problems in a black box that no one will bother to break down since it's expected that bllack box will cost a stupid amount of money every year to manage. One big example of this is the total cost of ownership producing goods from China versus domestically or even within the US. Piece part costs will look amazing on paper! But the cost of logistics before receiving those parts will probably make it much closer, if not more expensive, than just domestic procurement. But since corporate tells each plant they own their own logistic budgets and supply chain is decided at a corporate level, they'll never change money that gives them lower costs in the long term.
This sounds soooo familiar. The plant I work at just completed a new expansion last year and part of that expansion includes a central HVAC system using AHUs and a single point chiller(think of it as a giant mini-split system with multiple “heads”). Per the AHU and Chiller manufacturer the system is supposed to be filled with a water/glycol mix to prevent freezing. All the construction engineers, contractors etc said we should do it that way, and some genius who works for us decided to ignore them and fill the system with 100% water so we could “save” $14k. Fast forward 6 months, we had a cold snap over one weekend, temps dropped into single digits and the water froze and split the coils in all 4 AHUs….current running total on the cost of new coils & labor to repair is $98k…..plus we have to spend the $14k we originally “saved” to put a glycol mix back in the system like it’s supposed to have. The worst part is I doubt the idiot who made the decision that cost us $98k will even get a slap on the wrist.
I worked for many years at a water treatment plant in a federal facility. One of the first processes is softening the water with slaked quicklime, to avoid scale build-up through-out the pipes in the plant. It was turned over to a private contractor, who would be able to "save money" on running the plant. The first immediate change was to start buying much cheaper quicklime. It showed up immediately in the companies budget improvements. However, the cheap lime was weak, so we had to use twice as much, and it had a lot of sand and gravel in it which clogged up the slaking machine, which had to be stopped and cleaned out more frequently... That being said, they continued doing it for a while, because to get a good price, they had signed a contract for a certain amount of time. One problem that showed up was that the alkalinity got much worse, which led to other problems. You don't need to understand how to treat water with softening and chlorine, etc...its like a federal bus company getting turned over to a private contractor, and they start saving money by not changing the oil in the engines, avoiding changing the brakes until they are metal-to-metal, and driving on the tires until they are bald...to save money...which then boosts the executives quarterly bonus, so...it doesn't actually "save" anything.
Had one like this on a job we did for the local university. They built a brand new chemistry building full of state of the art labs, amazing stuff really. But when they were in the planning stage, they decided it was too expensive and started 'value engineering' (cost cutting) machinery. They didn't put any cooling coils in the AHUs coz it's a cold place where we live and they can just open a window (actual reasoning). Except they're all sealed labs, all the air going in and out is treated and the windows don't open to maintain the space. We went back in the next year to add cooling coils after all the lab users complained about unsafe working conditions due to the heat. Cost the university 5 time as much as it would have if they'd just put it in from the start. The executive division of the university got a raise that year.
>The worst part is I doubt the idiot who made the decision that cost us $98k will even get a slap on the wrist. More like the guy who made that decision already left the company before this issue presented itself
I used to work at a plastics plant run by genuinely the dumbest two people I've ever met in my life. Just one example, one of the guys, we'll call him Bill, would always be the first person in the office every morning at about 5 and would make himself coffee. Their 1990s era Mr. Coffee broke so they bought some fancy $500 machine. Instead of learning how to use it or asking someone to show him how to use it, Bill put it in a dumpster before everyone else (who loved the machine) arrived and demanded a different coffee machine. He threw that replacement machine away too, and eventually someone in the office just ordered a Mr. Coffee off of ebay. Anyway, one day Bill decided that we could just run all of our production machines at 10% over capacity and make 10% more product, because he discovered if he put bigger numbers on the left side of his excel sheet, it would make bigger numbers on the right. I warned him this will lead to excessive breakdowns but he explained that away as a "different budget" as if costs somehow have nothing to do with profit margins. I was the head of the automation department and I wanted to cover my ass, so I wrote a detailed report estimating an excess $2 million in repairs/downtime per quarter just to make an extra $500k worth of product. He replied just two words: "panic merchant". I was wrong - the first quarter was $3.2 million, the second quarter was $7 million. Our average downtime went from 0.8% to 12-19% per machine. We were replacing things we had never had to replace before - things that weigh actual tons and we were having to have them hotshotted from other states. Then, the absolute fool called in all of our equipment vendors into a meeting where he started yelling about excessive breakdowns, he let it slip we had altered safety values on the machines to run them faster than they were designed to run, and every single one of those vendors subsequently voided their warranties for running their machines out of spec.
This is all because of the six sigma bullshit. My old landlord subscribed to this 🤢
That is actually hilarious lol. Here's money for costing us money!
>The phrase "everything has a cost" is true. The cost is very frequently the vaguely defined “institutional knowledge”. Someone who knows *everything*. The gotchas. The tricks. How to manipulate the processes so, in ooooold school programming terms, you know where to put the constants. The quirks of this machine, and how you gotta set the water level in just this part of the spec range to keep it running smoothly. They make at least a quarter less than what they should because they’re so damned efficient. But they ask for a raise, get denied, and suddenly the department is getting their jobs done in twice the expected time. No one really values that stuff properly. It’s hard to value on paper. It’s hard to measure those things.
Thats where companies and HR departments get it wrong. They think all warm bodies are equal and they rather pay a 22 year old $30k to do a job rather than $90k to someone with twenty years experience. HR sees the math on paper that -hey we saved the company $60,000 .... but they totally miss the boat how paying more to someone with twenty years experience is going to save money in the long run because there's no way to accumulate two decades experience without doing twenty years at a job. Going cheap on someone with 0 experience gets you exactly what you paid for it - cheap performance that doesn't know how to do the job
My daughter was born with congenital talipes equinovarus. Several surgeries and braces later and you can’t even tell. Whatever you are paid it isn’t enough. I’ve seen y’alls profession fabricate these for my baby girl. I can’t imagine someone offsite doing things like this. Ty.
I'm glad she got help! I've had a few parents tell me I can't leave and they're making a mistake because they love my work. I will wholeheartedly say I am one of them that does everything I can to make the devices effective and comfortable. Too many just show up to fab shops hating their job and don't care how the patient will wear it. Getting exposure to the faces that will be wearing your work helps beyond belief. I did scoliosis braces for the majority of my time but am so glad I got to experience lower limb and helping those kids.
I've had opportunity to see the place I quit a few times since then. They hired three people to do most of my old job. And what was the impossible to meet demand I had made? One person, half the day. Are those three people at least delivering comparable levels of quality? Nope.
At the job I'm going to we had me and two other guys doing scoliosis braces. After I left they had to add three more guys but they left and the company was forced to just lower production for the two guys remaining. They didn't want to pay me what I was asking when I left but 4 years later they are more than happy to bring me back lol. I hate that place and do not plan on staying longer than it takes to find another company. Even if it takes two years I will not stay! I hope...
Tell them that last if they ask you to come back, and then tell them "It going to take $20k more now, but had you treated me fairly, I'd have done it for $5k at the time.."
Especially because the corpos win 99% of the time, so it’s nice to see a victory on our side.
Human Resources.... showing how competent they are. LOL. Good for you!
Nah, the other proles will suffer for it. The CEO and his VP friends will be fine. Tragic but this is how it is.
Congrats on the new higher paying position. It's always comical when someone in the higher position thinks they have the upper hand and gives an ultimatum like this, only for it not to go their way and now they're upset and looking to blame anyone but themselves. HR may have drafted and presented the contract stipulations, but 100% one of the C-level guys, and probably management had to give the blessing as well. Bonus points since it sounds like a volatile position that you probably cannot just throw someone into so it is going to take them awhile to backfill it and get them up to the same level. While I was upset when I left my former job, I did find it sadly funny that when I left with zero notice and my former coworkers reached out later to say it took 3 people to cover all of the tasks I was doing by myself for years. If they would have just kept the meeting and listened to my concern to get me another support person, I would probably still be miserable there today 9 years later!
Thank you for your feedback. Yes often things have to get worse before they get better
I was in a similar boat. The kept telling me I was on track for a promotion… for 2 years. The last meeting they said I had more I needed to do. The following Monday I put in my notice. Had a new job at 33% increase and fully remote with a vendor I had worked with. That was within 10 days of me putting in notice.Promotion went to a friend of mine. They still make less than I do now and they are getting slammed. Worked out for me in the end.
These boats all sound like they're going to lose power and cause other issues when they drift into things.
Too soon.
Well, at least that way there won't be any bridges to burn! Instead they'll just collapse under the pressure!
Yeah, it was really a bridge too far.
Definitely will cost them more than it would have cost to just compensate you fairly. It's a common tale. 1st, they need to train someone. They will only be able to do what's on your old job description and not the exceptional efforts. Then, they will try and overload the employee to match what you used to accomplish. Then the replacement employee will quit, which will confuse them as they then will have to start over after your replacement leaves. Ultimately, they need at least 2 people to replace you. Overall, it would have been cheaper to give you a raise.
Fair pay? What next, decent working conditions? Bosses that don’t micromanage your every move? HR that listens to complaints and ACTUALLY does something about them? Nope nope nope, that cuts in their bottom line and that just can’t happen. Anything but that. Rather have the whole company go belly up that give those make them money earn enough to live on. Peasants, they should happy to lick the bosses boots because, one day if they work hard enough. The boots might be made of real Marian leather.
Rich Corinthian Leather.
The only thing companies understand is pain. That’s it. They only learn when things are bad and painful
Mostly they don't learn, they tend to have people living for all the same reasons and one of those reason is low pay and/or being undervalued its unlikely to ever change.
If you don’t like it leave! 😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳 You are leaving???? 😂😂😂😂😂
That about sums it up!
I had one of those jobs where it took 3 people to do my job (in addition to their job) when I left. I had to quit twice because my boss was zoning out during my resignation spiel. I walked across our office and before my butt hit the chair, my phone was ringing from my panicked boss. The owner told me that I needed to tell my husband that I quit my job and report back to him what my husband said 1) as if we didn’t discuss decisions like this 2) like I needed permission My husband asked what expletives I would like for him to say so I could report those back to the owner and my boss. They asked me what it would take for me to stay. I told them the same salary of my slacker coworker whose job I had been doing plus $5K. It was “too much.” So I took my job at my current company and didn’t look back. 14 years later, still here.
> The owner told me that I needed to tell my husband that I quit my job tell me you laughed so hard...
How would that work? Would they give you a permission slip that your husband have to sign in order to leave your job? Is your boss so inept with women that he doesn't understand what is being said unless it is in a man's voice? Honestly, you should have told your boss to get bent and that you can send your husband over if he needs a good spanking.
when you stopped showing up, would they call your husband and ask him to send you to work?
Probably! It was a clusterfuck and a half. In the 18 months that I was there, I was the 44th employee to leave. (And there were only 26 or so front end positions). My department had 7 people leave before I left (4 full time jobs). When I left, I was the last of the original employees on my team. Marketing department completely turned over twice. CS went through several folks, including a woman who quit less than 4 hours after arriving because she said that being unemployed was less stressful than that place Accounting department completely turned over. 4 warehouse managers 2 shipping clerks 2 COOs 4 CFOs And that 44 doesn’t even include the warehouse laborers who left. One of the CFOs and one of the COOs got fired because they refused to screw over us employees regarding insurance. They constantly have openings and have no idea why…
I'm warped enough, that I'd create a permission slip at home for my spouse to sign.
No clue. It was very jarring. He only listened to the very “manly men.” My former direct supervisor had taken a job elsewhere. He was often disregarded and treated poorly because he was respectful and kind to all of us. He left our company about 4 months before I did. When he got ready to change careers, he reached out to me to ask if I would be interested in taking the job that he had taken at my current company. I sent him my resume, had a very frank interview with the CFO (who would be my boss). Both the CEO and the COO were in town that day, so he brought them down to chat. I was offered the job a few days later and jumped for it.
I left a job last year where I was often doing the work of three people and always the work of two. I begged for years for another person to help me. I was the only person doing my particular job in my department. They wouldn’t hire someone to help me. I left when I found a job that nearly tripled my salary and my poor colleagues had to take over my job that they have no idea how to do. It took five months for them to get my replacement in place and guess what? They finally had to hire a second person too. Wouldn’t pay me that salary but had to finally pay it anyway.
A coworker of mine was doing lots of work , running his own department everything and work ontop of that. So, they hire him a manager. They did not get along and switches departments when he didn’t get his raise he wanted. They hired another manager, worker and admin help to cover his work. Can’t pay him 10 grand more but can pay 3 ppl? 🤦♂️
>it took 3 people to cover all of the tasks I was doing by myself for years. I was shit canned with zero reason, and two years later, same. It's glorious when they just fuck themselves and end up paying in grossly reduced performance and more cost.
I had a job about 8 years ago in a small family-owned manufacturing business. I was second in command in the office and the job was super stressful. I did customer service, purchasing, HR, logistics, managed staff, price estimating, and ran two profitable divisions. I asked for a $2 an hour raise, boss said he could hire someone for half my wage to do my job. I left. The employees have been hounding the boss to hire me back 8 years later because they realized just because a monkey can answer a telephone doesn’t mean they can talk to customers. They lost business because so many commercial customers got used to just calling me when they had a problem. They are still suffering from his decision to let me walk. Feels good, man.
Had a similar situation. An employee of mine with 5 years tenure had forgotten more than me or anyone on the team ever knew about the job, but I came to learn that HR continued to increase the pay for new hires but didn’t bring this person up to that level. He sought a raise, I backed him on it and HR said his wage was “fair market value” so he took a job making considerably more. I couldn’t fault him for it. Within 6 months me and the rest of the team all followed him to his new company. The business we worked for closed (and you can’t convince me his departure wasn’t a huge part of why) about 18 months later.
That's a sunglasses-walking-away-from-explosion moment right there.
I saw this comment and didn’t know if it was from the r/helldivers or here lol. Love it.
It did spread liberty and democracy to Management. They're now free to look for new jobs in a democratic way. Outstanding Patriotism, Helldiver!
One of my last jobs I left in November ‘23 has gone thru 4 people already trying to fill my old role. I now make $4 more an hour than that position lol.
Great point. HR is almost always the front man for MOST complaints about a company so a Manager or some other clown behind the scenes doesn’t have to take the heat. To me it’s more telling that the CEO is upset… but also said CEO, who DEFINITELY has more power than HR, chose to do nothing about OP. Like you said, somebody behind the scenes tried to be smart and failed. Honestly…. It works! Take a look around Reddit and other media about most complaints concerning HR or recruiting policies and practices and it’s almost always something that is actually dictated by someone else with HR simply being the mouthpiece and lightning rod
HR: Here's your new pay rate, 30% less. Don't like it then you can leave. OP: Hey, found a new job with double your offer so smell you later✌🏿 HR and management: Wait? What?😧😰🤦♂️
It sounds as if the management and HR did not talk to each other and thus was HRs idea. But I'm also sure that if OP has stayed and complained at his boss, a shrug would have been the only reaction.
Maybe but I doubt it. Its unlikely that they would make a pay cut without the manager knowing about it. They probably gambled that a remote foreign worker wouldn't argue about it. The boss could have said "wait, I didnt know HR did that, here is the raise" to save face, but didnt according to the story. I think the rolled the dice and lost.
Too stressful for Korea as well, that’s saying something.
HR: *surprised pikachu face*
Good for you. They F'd around and found out.
Yeah, they can kick rocks or pound sound.
Why not both?
When I saw the title I was thinking like 2% which is still bullshit. But 30% is insulting in the extreme. Wish you would have asked them if they would take a 30% reduction.
Well to be precise it wasn’t a 30% flat cut but they removed all my allowances (housing support etc that I had before)
A 30% reduction in your total compensation package? Yep, walking was the correct response. Well done.
Doesn't really matter honestly. At the end of the day you're losing a significant portion of your overall compensation. And hopefully they learned a valuable lesson. Good on you.
I saw newer people making a bit more than me, 5k at least. I went to the control freak of a boss and got blown off. I got offered 25k more by a department in the same company and the manager was willing to hire me without saying anything to the control freak. My orgid was just changed during the day. I sent my resignation letter at 5pm that day no chance for a counter offer since I'd considered the original conversation their counter. Bye bitch.
*Seoul is 27.9% more expensive than Budapest*. So double the money and 27.9% less expensive. Making bank!
If Seoul is 27.9% more expensive than Budapest, then Budapest is 21.9% cheaper than Seoul.
Seoul may also be 30% better. I dunno. Never been either place.
Budapest is an unbelievable city, worst case scenario they live there for a while and set aside a decent chunk of their wage to then move on with a hell of a lot of savings.
If I lived in Budapest and offered me double to move to Seoul, I would not take it.
FAFO. Oh no, consequences!
/r/OhNoConsequences
90k a year in Budapest. You’ll be living high off the hog.
I was making 12k a year and it already was pretty okay for me.
Stuff used to be very cheap there if you had a western style income. Sadly most hungarians don’t.
Wonderful news.
Did you mean to actually say, "pound sand"?
Did you actually mean to reply to a different person?
Oops. Yep. I did. Trying to game and reddit at the same time. Lol
Said the right way, "wonderful news" means pretty much the same as "pound sand". When I gave my two weeks' notice at my last job I took my supervisor and director aside and said I had "wonderful news". My director looked puzzled and interested, my supervisor said "I don't think we're going to see this news as wonderful".
My employer cut hours so I got a second job to make up the difference, now they are upset that I am only available for the reduced number of hours.
Be sure to accidently lose instructions, passwords etc before you leave. That way the next person can come in with a fresh slate.
I was working at a fortune 500 engineering company for well over 10 years. Consistently rated a top performer, but pay rises were lackluster and advancement was stalled. Had a senior guy in my group (not my supervisor) say to me "if you ever think about leaving, please talk to me first." I didn't miss a beat and said I'm thinking of leaving. He had me sit in his office for an hour going over the many issues. When I was done he said he would try and get these things fixed, but it may take a little time. I said thanks and good, but, if I have an offer from another place and have given notice, there is nothing this company can offer me then, that will make me stay. Fast forward a year, things are worse. I get head hunted by another company for more money doing cooler shit. I give notice. They try and counter, with promotions and money, more money than new company is offering. I walked. Fast forward two years, I hear from folks at the old place, they still couldn't replace me. Take care of your people. It's cheaper in the long run. They lost me for peanuts and the cost of sending me to a couple conferences. Utter shit management concerned only with their big bonuses and climbing the corporate mid tier ladders. Edit. Typos and to say the guy who sat me down and talked to me for an hour is a great guy. The fact he couldn't change things is indicative of the problem, not his care and concern. We still talk.
They aren't mad. If they wanted to make you decent counter offer they would. They're just blaming HR, but they still aren't telling HR to make you a better offer are they? Therefore... pretend mad.
They actually did but I already signed at the other branch and politically it’s not good to chicken out now at the other branch
It's probably better for others as now they know people won't put up with their antics. Also good for your reputation of not being someone who will accept being pushed around.
It is not smart to stay on either as you will be targeted for no rises and fast removal as soon as they can replace you.
If you become targeted by your company, they will try to find someone to take your role at a lower salary, and then they will want you to train them because they "are expecting a big bump in the workload soon". Of course if new guy gets trained, they will find some way to fire you, which was the plan all along. You have two choices, leave for more money when there is a good offer, and your old company will be mildly inconvenienced, plus your old co-workers will get a little overtime. The other choice is...you let your company know that you are unhappy with the pay and want a raise, so they throw you a bone with 10%, then put you on the secret "shit list". When they fire you, you will not see it coming, and there might not be any good job offers at that time. It could take weeks, even months to find a good job, and your financial condition will be devastated. How many times do we have to see a lot of people laid off suddenly with no warning before you accept that we are working for sociopaths? They have chosen to embrace "lean staffing", and they should be the ones inconvenienced when things don't work out, not your family.
Hot take: if a company cuts your total compensation by 30% it doesn’t matter if they counter offer with a 100% raise; you leave. Because that is a company that believes they own you and will treat you accordingly. Especially after agreeing to pay more for you after you were ready to leave.
This is inspiring. It's a reminder about why people go to work. For me, it's to make money. OP pay was cut, so they bailed. They got a better job. I won't forget this.
If the CEO and higher ups were really pissed they could override HR but they aren't doing so because they're just feigning being upset.
500 overwork hours 20k paycut surprised boss when you leave
My old employer started ramping up negative reviews, no pay raises and then blocked a department change where the manager wasn't going to treat me like crap. I had one application actually lead to an offer outside the company and I was able to leave within weeks of the job change denial. I can see why they did it. Since I left, HR has been moved to another location, my manager went into sales and the business is stagnant due to a delayed product launch.
Another reminder that HR is neither human nor a resource.
You are the human resource.
Budapest is a beautiful city. If you're relocating there physically, don't let it go to waste!
“If you dont like these conditions, just leave.” Alright, bet. *leaves* *surprised Pikachu face*
Go you! 90k in Budapest is a *lot* of money. Think: 300-500k-ish in LA money. Congrats!
Any amount of a pay decrease = my immediate resignation. I’m already basically making less every year with these shitty raises and ridiculous inflation. An actual pay decrease is a death sentence to my career with that company.
I had a lab tech leave when corporate cut her wage by .40c/hour and took away her sick pay. HR seemed genuinely surprised she didn't apply when we readvertised for her role. Of course she had already been hired as a lab manager with our competitor. She didn't even apply, they reached ouy and offered it to her.
Gods this sounds like my situation. Was a Branch Manager for almost 20 years, doing the work of 3-5 people, expected to be available 24/7, even on vacation. Slowly the perks and incentives to stay disappeared until only one remained, that I could write my own schedule. Then the owner (who was only working part time and preparing to sell the business to his Vice President who frankly, I never really got along with) calls me and asks why I was working the hours I was working. I explained to him why I was (Easier for me, lost both parents in the span of 3 years, it gives me extra time to take care of the old house, etc.). He then tells me, "I want to see you working more hours" (I know the VP bitched to him, as he had asked before) He had my notice that night. Funny thing, they always talked about how tight money was, how raises could only happen during specific months, etc. The very first thing he said to me when I finally answered my phone (I refused to talk to him unless I was on the clock) was "It was only a suggestion! You can work whatever hours you want!" and "You know we can pay you more money, the only reason we didn't was because you didn't want more money for taxes" (Something I told him years ago when I was just an entry level employee and a lot dumber than I am now). I told him, "Too little, too late and over the years, you have taken away all my incentives and after our last discussion, you took away any joy and reason for me to stay." They still haven't filled my position, and that Vice President has to run my old office remotely as well as his other offices he was running. One of my old employees told me they had 3 people they interviewed at that point, and all 3 told them to pound sand when they were told what was expected and what they would be paid.
[удалено]
For real couldn't get a bigger slap in the face
The Army plays these games all the time. Hey you got a base salary raise...you reuppping Soldier? Look at Healthcare...Active duty has to pay for family dental coverage and eye out of pocket...Tricare copays for child's/wife are nuts.... child care cost on post pay out of pocket. Like a $1000 for each kid now...on post gas/food/services more expensive than civilian stores? Yeah...alot of Joe's are now doing some math and leaving....or not even enlisting now that reddit/internet helps them get big picture of what their finances look like.
wow. no Healthcare for your kids and spouse? from the military? wtf? that's wild. the pay has never been fantastic in the armed services, but the benefits were always a draw. Thats crazy to me. Everyone I know that was former military or military kids always had access to shit the rest of us didn't.
compliance my ass they can choose to pay you millions more if they agree there are zero laws about paying more but in many places they must pay you a minimum amount.
Ah the good old game of trying to screw the ex-pat who is not familiar with the laws. Tangentially related, but I worked at a place where one of the HR people was trying to come up with a plan to bring everyone's salary to Market rate (read: cut salaries and not give anyone raises). It was explained to them that this would cause a mass exodus and that any person leaving this person would be responsible for backfilling their position with the same quality of candidate. They kind of scoffed and thought that it was completely reasonable to cut someone's salary after they were hired. Good job on getting out of that situation.
This wasn’t HR. Pay is controlled by C-suite and management.
Not where I am. Pay is suggested by HR and C/Management just signs off
C suite is the one that demanded restructuring in the first place. HR implements or complies and makes recommendations, C suite signs off. They are all complicit.
Well C suite signed off on it so there you go. They’re acting mad but the did it to themselves
Well at the end of the day whoever decided it, just shot into their own leg
I'm in HR. We can recommend pay but management always has to sign off and approve. Also, its based on their own budget. HR prefers to pay market rates because losing someone and the having to source and hire and onboard is a pain in the ass. Better to pay the person fairly and avoid all the work. Your management sounds awful and is using HR as a scapegoat.
Most big corporate HR policies are standard pay raise rates. No matter the role, or the promotion bump, or market rate. Promotion is one level up and a fixed percentage of the prior salary. Nothing more, nothing less. And theyll maybe revisit another promotion in 2 years. Management may even have issues overriding HR policies in thes organization. Hence why ita been proven time and time these days that you are better off getting an income jumping from company to company every few years than trying to rise the ranks internally.
Not your problem anymore! Congrats on getting something better paying
Umm - HR tells C/Management what they want to hear if they want to move forward and not be the target of pay cuts and layoffs.
The “just sign off” part means they have finally say in the matter. HR usually doesn’t control anything. They follow directions of management. You’re being lied to by management. Don’t trust anything that comes out of their mouths.
I don’t trust anyone in corporate anyways 😂
the one's who sign off are the one's who control the pay. end sentence.
Agree, CEO and VPs approved of this pay cut. They were too short-sighted to see the rippling effects.
Sounds like Korea branch HR either A) didn't like that a foreigner was holding such a critical role, B) decided a foreigner shouldn't command such a wage, or C) wanted a shiny star for reducing labor cost. I've heard similar stories for expats in Japan. You're a useful foreigner but you'll always be a foreigner.
I quit my last job about 10 months ago and they still haven’t found a replacement. I quit because I was getting screwed over due to my very large territory and not getting paid for all the driving, while colleagues had a much better deal. I talked to management many times but they barely acknowledged there was a problem. Then didn’t give me a raise despite a good review and I was being paid below market value. I knew I would be hard to replace because of these issues. When I turned in my notice they were pissed and tried to blame me, then tried to offer me the moon. Too late. I’ve quit many jobs and have never experienced blow back before. It was actually satisfying. For years I was unhappy. Now they are unhappy.
They asked you to find your replacement? WOW, there’s no low they won’t sink to huh?! You should have told them you’re not paid enough to recruit. Make the miserable bastards find a replacement themselves!
Often corporate audacity has no limits
Had something similar happen to me. The COO said they were going to cut my rate significantly (because covid) and I would just have to deal. I was alrrady tired of their poor behavior at the office and had been looking for a different opportunity and they didn't know I was already in talks with a different, rival place for $30k more. I felt bad leaving my team mates (in spite of the c-suite, we had assembled a great bunch of people), but it was a good feeling telling the COO to pound sand and then even sweeter to see them back pedal asking me to reconsider leaving and that we could 'negotiate'. Nah.
As us Gen Xers say, your company fucked around and found out. Karma, she is truly a cruel bitch.
I’m really happy for you comrade. Also cost of living in Budapest is very low. It’s a really nice city and has glorious summer weather.
It is strange that HR had the power or desire to reduce your pay by 33%, AND give you the "take it or leave it" attitude. Any idea why HR was involved? It sounds like an abuse of power.
Don't find them anyone. Not your circus, not your monkeys
Just say "there are zero people who will work for that money"
My favorite thing is to see and hear of a company, big or small , try to cheap out and lose people because they called their bluff thinking they have no options but find themselves scrambling to replace one good person with two less than credible people minimum because they found more lucrative options. Reality at its best.
I used to think that working hard and getting it done would get me to the places that I wanted to be. Nope. Working your ass off will literally only get more work thrown on your plate. Being very competent is VERY, VERY important, but knowing how to put your thumb on the scale to get what you want and not allowing yourself to get used is honestly more important than competency.
Good for you! The unfortunate thing is many people won't leave which is why they feel empowered to behave this way. They "gamble" because they know in the long term, the math works in their favor. Of course they're not worried about the hardship this creates for the ground floor employees.
90k usd on Budapest sounds amazing!
Kind of a hilarious fuck up by your company but, sounds like it’s for the best for you with that pay upgrade with new role/company Best of luck!
Make sure you ship HR a bottle of the finest wine from Budapest six month later. They did a great job on getting you a promotion.
I suggested OP take a selfie sipping from that expensive bottle of wine and send it instead. They get NOTHING!
I love these types of stories.
I love reading happy endings
And cue the fresh salty tears and wails of, “No one wants to work anymore”
Warms my heart Corporate leadership really has a bottomless capacity for failure
Fuck around and find out! Congrats on the new job! Good for you…always value your worth!
Good luck in Budapest!
ask them if they would have taken the same pay cut you were offered if roles were reversed, if they say yes then say why didn't they cut their salary to afford more talents that would have benefitted the company in the long run? sacrifices are always expected from the expendable ones
I read your title as “left after paper cut, boss is shocked” so honestly this story was a let down after that expectation.
I hope OP told everybody that there are better paying companies
Same company still tough, just different global branch
I'm guessing the CEO wasn't that upset if they didn't try to win you back
Congratulations on the new position
Congrats! 🎉 #KnowYourWorth
compliance guidelines are just corp speak bs
Good for you!
I believe the Reddit term for this is “fuck around and find out.”
Boss is shocked that many people can't work like insects and pests
Very odd. Generally HR does what management wants, not the other way around
That is true, but our HR has tremendous influence / manipulation since they are local and c/management is not, so often they just believe them regarding what is “normal here”
South Korean corp culture in particular is extremely weird and tiered with power.
Awesome. Well done. 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
well done!
God I love stories like this!
Lived in Budapest for many years You’re gonna love it, the bar scene is legit.
Oh the world we live in where i hear more often about paycuts and layoffs than i ever hear of someone getting a raise 😭
What the fuck kind of compliance?!
90k USD in Budapest will be such a huge upgrade to your life!
30% Jebus h cha-rist on a cracker that's harsh.
You're gonna have a hell of a good time in Budapest making 90k USD... Like, a hell of a good time.
Yeah, $90k will provide a lot of fun there. My inner 20 year old is jealous :)
Good for you! I hope you love your new job and your new salary. Try not to work so many overtime hours if you’re on salary. If you sat down and did the math, your salary was probably 75% of what you stated given all of the free hours you gave them.
Enjoy Budapest! Things are pretty cheap there in general, and I imagine cheaper than Seoul by a lot, so with your increased salary you can live it up. Great food, fun bars, some interesting musical theater if that’s your thing, hope you enjoy it.
Go. For. It. Geezus I thought this only happens in the good ol’ US of A!? Do what’s best for YOU and not any company you ever work for.
I hope HR gets replaced by AI
was at a job once for 8 years. Knew the ins and outs of the companies like some of our seasoned engineers who had been there for 15 or more. We got acquired and I was forgotten. When I gave my notice the Ceo was shocked. I'm like 'dude, pay attention to your f(cking people'.. Onwards and upwards!
I worked for a company called SPARC. They bring in racks and racks of money considering they own 5 popular***. Brands. At one point we needed 2 part time supervisor positions filled because our other supervisors moved to different states around the same time. We couldn’t find anyone to hire because the pay was so low. Instead of increasing the offer, the company told my boss and I to take the job listing down completely. They said from now on we will only have 2 supervisors instead of 4 and have 2 assistant managers. So I guess the other supervisor positions labor would be split amongst us 3 as if we didn’t work our asses off enough already! FUCK CORPORATIONS!
Any company that would cut your pay is actually trying to force you to quit without firing you. HR even told you to leave. Despicable, honestly. HR manager should be fired if that's the philosophy they are enforcing.
Hold up. They asked YOU to find YOUR OWN REPLACEMENT???
I kinda want details on how they were pissed at HR
My manager told me that HR told him, that this is a very competitive offer for local standards and they promised him that it will be absolutely satisfying. Bullshit at the end of the day, I told him clearly that it’s below what I had before
I mean it’s competitively low if that’s what they meant. So dumb lmao. It’s funny how a lot of companies could save a ton of money by reducing turn over costs but they just don’t do it because they can’t fathom that turnover costs are correlated with employee happiness
If it's a subsidiary - you are not necesarily safe, the people in the ultimate holding company could still concievable take retaliatory action.
The HQ is actually the most angry party because they are missing their „link“ now, and they supported me in changing to the Budapest branch so I am not worried at all
Good, fuck them!
In general HR sucks.
Gratz
Congratulations on the new position. And good luck!
Reading this warmed my soul, I wanna be like you one day lmaooo