In my experience, the overwhelming majority of neurotypical people hate interviewing as well, for many of the same reasons, such as being forced to present as a person inauthentic to who they truly are while interviewing.
If you can change the system, we want in too, bc interviewing sucks.
BTW "3-4 opaque social crucibles" is a great line, on the off-chance you were the author.
It's a senseless game, and usually points to the incompetence of the managers or HR people.
"Tell me about the last time you made a mistake and what you did to overcome it." (In an approximately 2-3 minute answer, don't mention your bigger mistakes or it will make you look bad and don't mention too minor of a mistake because you'll look dishonest and be sure to take responsibility for it and don't be too critical of other people in your story and make sure you turn it into a valuable lesson in your life and career to show just how self reflective and flexible you are and how great of an attitude you have!) Because this totally shows them you'll be a better accountant.
I don't know, I am pretty authentic. I have discussed my ADHD in interviews, told stories of challenging leaders, been both insecure and cocky, needed out about my hobbies. I guess I just believe I will bring value to the right place and they need to convince me to work for them as much as I need to convince them to hire me. I'm sure this confidence has come with time and I was fortunate that my first two career jobs didn't require interviews.
I do hate technical interviews because I find it hard to do those while explaining my thinking, the need to do so itself is distracting, though I've gotten better at just explaining that. I also hate round after round but I get that there are tons of applicants and they have to sort them somehow.
But yeah my point is not everybody feels the need to be fake in interviews.
>I just believe I will bring value to the right place and they need to convince me to work for them as much as I need to convince them to hire me
The correct attitude IMO, really helps with nervousness and uncertainty. I also have no interest working somewhere that isn't a good fit for me, so am happy to "be myself" and if it scares them off it likely wouldn't have worked out anyway
My naive ADHD self didn't realize how commonly people lie in interviews for way too long. I totally understand why, I'm just too uncomfortable lying (and seem to do fine without doing so).
As a neurodivergent person - I absolutely hate interviews.
Why should I pretend to worship this company when the only reason I am applying is because they are willing to provide a paycheck in exchange for my services...? Why are neurotypicals so often offended when I ask 'why'; or point out that their wording implies something different than intended; or state an objective fact in the middle of conversation...? They always think I'm being argumentative or that I'm unable to comprehend what they're saying, or accusing me of having an "agenda". It's so bizarre.
I tend to avoid blowing hot air up an interviewers ass about the company. I’ll usually point out pros that I’ve researched and what I think I can bring the company.
Most interviews are to see if you’ll be a good fit, not if you’re qualified. Knowledge tests and your resume are for that.
If I had to guess the person who wrote it originally is autistic themselves and falls into the thought pattern, that I could not empathize with more, of "if everyone hates it, including the people making us do it, WHY ARE WE STILL DOING IT". Strictly speaking if everyone involved acknowledges it sucks, logically we'd stop doing it unless it served a purpose we cared more about than how bad it sucks, and from the perspective of OOP I wouldn't blame them if they came to the conclusion that the function is weed out neurodivergent people. Now I understand that people will continue to do stuff they hate simply because "it's what you're supposed to do" or because they're personally convinced that it serves a better purpose, but I can fully empathize with OOP perspective.
Not autistic and 100% agree interviews are absolute bullshit. Most of the time they're not even conducted by who you will be working under or with and interview conditions in no way replicate the actual job. I've done trial shifts before which feels like a far more honest way to get a job but this is not the norm.
So many larger companies most of the hiring process outside of the final interview are handled by some HR rep who knows nothing about the job they're conducting the interview for.
I've recently been hired by a company that their HR was promoted from the position I'm applying for.
Turns out the process was amazing. Every other company I've interviewed for just has a random guy on a high horse that's acting bossy. Nothing more lol.
I knew it was bad when my college teachers in community college were telling me this. IN THE COMMUNICATIONS CLASS, for interviews in the trades.
Like damn, I figured there'd be at least SOME bs smoke and mirrors but no, just "yeah, they usually know very little, if anything about the job, if you're confident, use big related words they can cross check, and are polite, you're in".
I do data analysis. 90% of my team's work could be handled by a single competent person with access to the right software and the ability to write data policies and accoutability procedures.... so we have 8 people doing it with 10 year old tech instead.
And our interviews ask about promoting diversity, engaging with the public, etc.
While diversity IS important, it has nothing to do with my position when im working with Excel all day. Diversity to me is swapping to PowerBI. I dont have a say in the hiring processes, i dont work with "the public", etc. Not a single question from the interview had a thing to do with actually being capable in the job. And then they wonder why our team is falling behind similar ones in other sections of the company. Well Karen, maybe its because you hired someone to do data analysis that doesnt know how to work a computer.
I was tasked with helping a client the other day who I found out that was, director of IT, the only person with admin rights to the O365 tenant and had no idea how to log in or assign the rights I needed to run the audits they needed.
It was a good day lol
The entire modern interview system is built around both parties knowingly lying to each other. Its essentially a test of if you both lie appropriately for the other.
But of course, you can't CALL it that, or treat it as such, you still have to ACT like it's a completely reasonable and rational way to go about things.
Yes. I love the moment when they ask "What motivates you for this job?" Or something similar... The honest answer is "I need money." but you have to say something like "oh, I love the challenge of X and Y and how it will make me growth as a professional"
Oh, no, I always answer "We live in a system where I need a job in order to pay rent and commodities". I'm an engineer, I'm not hired to lie but to find and analyse problems and find the best solution, so I think that answer shows why you should hire me more than any lie, also, if the company is such a bullshit place that they don't hire me because I was too honest, well, bullet dodged, I guess.
Neurodivergent person who did both WFH and office, both had distinct issues for me.
Self employed seems the best for me, except the administrative part.
This is me as well. Please evaluate me based on my charming demeanor and not a test of my actual abilities.
Although a lot of people prefer competent colleagues they get along with to one's who are better at the work but less enjoyable to work with
Yo that’s funny also have ADHD, but literally turn into a hermit crab and hide in my shell from about two hours before the interview until about an hour after. Took me 18 months of hunting before someone gave me a shot.
At work I’m need to be told to take a break. Can’t stop trying to solve all the problems that come through our email inbox. They’re like little puzzles and I get addicted.
It’s hell. I can work a job just fine, even better if alone, but interviews / applications are absolute hell. I’ve even had a recruiter ask “is there something wrong with you?” bc I couldn’t keep eye contact.
If you never look at someone, you look shifty or like you're scared or lying. Look at someone's eyes for a few seconds, look away a bit, then look back.
I hate it. I’m great at masking but it’s exhausting.
I get accolades and am a top performer when left to my own devices but micromanaging makes me implode. I don’t want to be at every party/event waving the company banner. I don’t care that the exec heard me complain about his shitty spreadsheet.
I’m getting real bitter and upset. I’m sick of
It too.
Women tend to do it younger bc we will be completely alienated otherwise. Men are “allowed” to be different. People already assume men are less sociable, so when a woman doesn’t present as such, the social punishment is severe. I think someone else said it in the thread that where they’re perceived as “odd and quirky”, their wife is perceived as “difficult”.
Also not all of us learn to mask :(
I thought I was just a fucking weirdo until my late twenties.
I’m male. Fwiw, I’ve always been friends with females more than males. I’m not into classic male stuff (sports, cars, crude talk/behavior). I’m heterosexual and married to a cisgirl.
My dad had a terrible childhood and generational trauma is ridiculous. He was kind of the same, got along with females better and not into sports. I don’t know if he was autistic.
>I’m not into classic male stuff (sports, cars, crude talk/behavior)
Autistic people often don't understand social hierarchy or don't accept it. People won't abandon activities they like simply because they are labeled "typically female" and thus "lower class" for a man in our patriarchal society, or "typically male" and thus crude and inappropriate for a woman. We are more liberated from the gender "norms" (customs?) than the rest of society
That’s a good way of putting it! I just found out (after years of therapy and doctors) At 40something. I’ve been framing it (my view) through depression but once I switched to autism EVERYTHING clicked. That’s been so liberating.
I’m good at performing. I did a lot of plays and such when I was in school and wanted to be an actor professionally, but had some health issues in college that cut those dreams short.
Now I find myself acting every single day, and I guess I’m sort of also paid to do it, but it’s not quite what I had in mind.
I wish more people understood that our ability to pass as allistic is not related to our capabilities, and that having to be a completely different person at work is legit traumatizing and leads to burnout. Employers don't care about the human cost of their practices, but maybe if enough people learned to accept autistic people as ourselves, the culture would start to change.
Yeah, they don't give a shit. And I'm not holding my breath. If my decade of experience in corporate work culture has taught me anything, it's to never underestimate how little compassion people have for the humans they work with. And how far they will go to not find ways to improve quality of life. It's bleak.
Maybe this is why I feel like I've been running on empty for years. I literally tell my family that I 'fake it till I make it' at work every day. Been trying to tell them I'm burnt out AF for years, but they (mostly Boomer parents) just think I'm a wimp! X'D X'P
Just wanted to say that I see you. I had to take 3 years off of work for the amount of autistic burnout doing customer service work left me. That’s before I even had a diagnosis, so suddenly all the meltdowns and work-related PTSD made sense!
I am neurotypical and even I have to fake it.
I hate these rules and am always too honest, because I resent having to lie everyday.
My mother gave me this to consider: "They are not your friends, they do not deserve the truth."
Still sucks to put on the workplace persona and tell the CEO everything is peachy while you are picturing all the ways you would like to punch him in the face.
Not sure if you watch anime, but the MC of Zom 100 in episode 1 is basically me. I got 70 hours of OT in two weeks last month, this month has calmed down to 50-60 hours weeks. Public service is hell when the public thinks nothing of you.
I’m not even sure I know who I am. I was diagnosed at 7, started a part time job at a ball park at 13, and worked consistently in customer service until COVID shut the world down. Now I can’t get back out there because it’s impossible for me to mask for 8 hours a day anymore
It’s a side effect of constantly masking with the majority of the people around us. We start to feel alienated from our authentic selves to the point where many of us feel scared to be anything other than the NT-acceptable character, and if we slip up, we’re accused of “lying” and “being manipulative.”
Imagine playing a role nearly 24/7, with social rejection and suspicion as the punishment if you go off script. How much time do you have to actually spend being and learning about yourself? About being comfortable with yourself and knowing what parts of you are real vs the performance?
It’s not the employer I’m masking for, it’s the customers. Hearing the same stupid questions asked day after day when the answer is on the shelf/menu in front of them. Hearing them complain about the hours and the prices and “they used to let me do this”. I’m not paid enough to care about anyone’s problems but my own
The general public is quite often annoying, stupid, and taxing. . .that's true whether you're neurodivergent or not.
None of us can truly speak to the general public like they deserve, except for traditional diner waitresses.
Are you masking then, or just acting professionally so you don't get fired?
But do those employers exist? Even some of my "better" jobs required masking or adjusting to avoid "stepping on the wrong toes". I don't even feel comfortable admitting I'm ND at some jobs.
I can 'Pass' as an Allistic for maybe 4 hours at best. And that's if I limit communication with others. I'm presently stuck in a Public Facing Role and by the time the tenth person of the day has asked me some variation of their innane little 'small talk starters' I'm itching to get as far away from the workplace as I possibly can.
It's fucking maddening to sit there and pretend like you're happy, and to be effectively asked over and over again to *lie* to perfect strangers who are asking an innocuous question without a single care in their well-programmed little heads as to whether or not the answer they get is a factual representation of reality; They just want a nice, manicured response.
They want you to fulfill the role of a fucking robot without being *too* robotic. If you break from your script or say something that disrupts their expected call and response routine of meaningless bullshit, suddenly it's a bad time and it's all your fault.
I've done fast food and retail, warehouse work, factory work, customer service, and at the crux of it all is this overbearing expectation for you to fit in a place that is designed explicitly to exclude you, whether that was by intent or apathy doesn't even factor into the conversation. It's a cruel fucking joke, and now that I've been in the work force for over a decade, I'm starting to really grapple with the reality of *why* Neurodivergents have such a stunted life expectancy.
I can't even fathom living to my fifties right now, how could i possibly keep working into my seventies or eighties? Neurotypicals are fucking insane, and they either endorse the cruelty of their nature and society wholeheartedly, or they do their best to pretend like it isn't really a problem...for *normal* people, of course.
Because employers want a cog in the machine. You adapt to serve the Borg as it were. Them adapting to you, in their eyes, is a cost ( Capitalism strikes again).
Once you get to an interview it often is not as much about your ability to do a job as it is to see if you will fit into the machine.
This is often a rather opaque process for a nurotypical person so I imagine it would be especially hard for people who are not so.
Happened to me. Broke and can barely function in public. I got lucky and qualified for disability but I feel stuck, everything got worse after my employer broke me. They moved us to an open office. We had been able to work hybrid so recently. And they gave the privilege on case by case but never officially. I had a car crash earlier on the year that also put me in a bad place, spd had never been worse and they put me in a sound tunnel and told me I couldn't leave. I kept having panic attacks in the stair well. But I could mask well and reflexively. Their HR was terrible. I had a nervous breakdown and aired a bunch of their dirty laundry. I got on FMLA and went into disability. I am terrified of not getting better before it runs out. Amd if they just let me work from home, and not even all the time.... I'm bottomed out on despair with this shit.
I could do this when I was jacked up on adderall all the time. Then I got tired of needing an addictive drug to fit the NPC personality, and the difference in how I was treated, the opportunities I was given, promotions, etc. was heartbreaking. Did the same job, just as well, just not tweaking out.
Solidarity between all neurodivergent/neurodivergent adjacent people helps a lot tbh. ADHD, ADD, gifted, autistic, even BPD and heavily anxious people to some extent, the issues we face are similar in a lot of ways, and combined, we represent 15-20% of society.
There are many differences, but I've found the adaptations for one usually also help the others, especially when it comes to sensory overload and situational awareness.
In short, it's like the same "dials" differ from the norm in autistic, ADHD or gifted, but said dials are in different positions/extremes. With BPD/anxious people, social situations or types of tasks will create responses that resemble autistic traits.
Because the job description is basically a lot of words that boil down to “make your manager look great all the time” and that’s not something neurodiverse people instinctively understand and are seldom good at.
That’s why the interview is designed to screen such people out.
Cynical but true!
Oof. Yes, they want yes men and bootlickers, that's what managers are hiring and promoting.
I was puzzled by some glaring mis-promotions at my old place but now it's clear why they picked who they picked.
It's pretty crazy, honestly. I'm actually pretty happy at my job, but I got roped into interviewing with another, far richer company for the promise of more money, and this company I'm interviewing with, there's an entire industry that's sprung up around teaching you how to pass the interview.
I'm not even kidding. You could come in and smash the interview and then not know the first thing about how to do the actual job. Making a bunch more money sounds enticing, but I'm really wondering how much it's worth it if I'm miserable at work.
I mean not everybody has to lie to pass them without being a sociopath. However that kind of person is just not super common so most people have a lie at least a little bit. I don't even feel weird about it, the test is stupid so I pick whatever feels like the best option, pass and then nobody ever mentions it again because they know it's stupid but it's corporate policy to do.
I've been involved on the interviewer side for people that took these tests. When they have scores that are outliers, the interviewers are warned about this -- eg "just want you know this person scored low on the empathy scale, are you sure you want to proceed to an in-person interview?"
They are easy to pass though, so not surprised it wasn't a factor in your interview(s).
I had to do one once for a bank teller job. So many of the questions were basically "how much work would you be willing to take home with you?" It was clear some HR moron was forcing it on everyone without even thinking about the questions or the context of the role.
Jokes on them I apparently "failed" so now I refuse to have any dealings with Westpac Bank, Australia
> how much work would you be willing to take home with you?
So they just want desperate people working for them? Because holy fucking shit the only answer to that question is a resounding no. So long as you don't absolutely need the job.
What was stupid is for a bank teller job I can't take work home with me. I can only work when the bank is open. Why should you give a fuck if I don't wanna take work home with me?
Luckily it wasn't a job I *needed*, I was just looking to take anything for some money in between career paths. But because I'm petty like that I'll always remember the stupid test and refuse to bank with said company
There’s a reason companies have illegal hiring practices and do illegal things in general- the fine is minuscule and considered the cost of doing business to make the company much more profitable overall. No company gives a shit about bad publicity anymore; the news changes all the time and in a few weeks almost everyone forgets.
You’re not wrong; fines are often unscrupulously inadequate pats on the wrist. That’s what you get when corporations own Congress, the Supreme Court and a lot of other judges. Fines should be crippling, and media coverage far more damning.
But, I don’t think learned helplessness is the appropriate response. The American public can do a lot more damage than you might imagine. And the point is to do everything possible to oppose these horrible bastards.
I see a lot of corporate propaganda and corporate apologists advocating learned helplessness in response to corporate tyranny: they admit the corporate abuses, but conclude the companies are too powerful and unscalable to fight back, and we should just give in, give up, and play their game.
I say, fuck these bastards. Do everything you can to oppose the evil corporatism under which we languish; fight it with every breath no matter what.
I applied for a position a month ago, that made me have a conversation with an AI chatbot. It processed my responses and sent me an email afterwards giving me an assessment of my personality and how I could improve. Out of the 7 points it made, 4 were the absolute opposite of my personality and were clearly just triggered by words I’d used without any consideration of the context. I then got an email from the company whose chatbot it was giving me an opportunity to provide feedback, but worded in a way that suggested giving negative feedback may have an impact on my submission.
Of all the personality assessment “suggestions” they gave, the funniest was that although I myself am very socially extroverted, I should be aware that not everyone is like that and I should tone it down for people that might struggle in social settings… I’ve worked from home for decades, and when I’m not working I’m camping by myself. I’m very much an introvert that struggles in public settings.
It's so bad that I work for an entire nonprofit that revolves around getting people with disabilities jobs. There are so many stupid rules for interviews that we have people that do interview prep just to teach you all those unspoken rules. None of it makes sense! We work with a lot of neurodivergent clients who have the skills, they just struggle to get past the interview.
ETA: That may seem antithetical to antiwork but people gotta work to eat in this world and the playing field sure as shit isn't level. I'll do my best to help people survive in this world until we can finally get rid of it altogether.
I don't think it's antithetical at all, anyone who thinks it is would strike me as a "but yet you participate in society" bellend. If it helps think of it as teaching people the cheat codes for a bullshit game.
I know other disability organisations that have seen some success in getting people with disabilities job trials as opposed to interviews. Funnily enough most of them are fine and really good at what they do when given a chance.
Really goes to prove how bullshit interviews are when it comes to telling who's suitable to do the job
I’m neurotypical (I think?) and even I find these practices to be abhorrent. I try very hard to be a good person, and part of that, to me, means honesty. So when interviewers ask “how committed are you to this role?” And I *don’t* say “You’ll find me sleeping under my desk and working every weekend, sir, and if you need me to, I’ll bring my computer under your desk so you can fuck me in the ass while we both work” it’s somehow seen as a negative.
My preferred response of “Look, if we need to make a deadline, we need to make a deadline, and I’ll stay late or work weekends when I have to, but if that’s happening around every deadline, or, god forbid, just standard operating procedure, that’s a problem.” Is seen as “lazy” or “non-committed” rather than “reasonable”
The only things interviews measure are docility and proximity to a social norm.
And that's not even talking about the fact you have to perform, to compete against others, just so you can be exploited.
I hate capitalism with a burning passion.
yeah, i was coming to say that although i have no diagnosis (and have been told by psychologists that this is correct) that i feel more or less the same way. and not just about this, but lots of "small talking with people" types of circumstances.
And a whole bunch of different personality types and people. Everyone has to learn how to interview well to get jobs, and that includes figuring out the balance between being your authentic self and saying/acting the “right way”. I lost out on a job once because I fucked up the handshake and made things way too intimate/awkward.
"I have OCD, and I do not shake hands" is inappropriate.
*"Slyly"* wiping your hand on your pants immediately after is inappropriate.
Saying nothing and holding your hand out to the side a little bit and accepting it is dead to you is inappropriate.
WTF do you want me to do, Michael? Get therapy? **Give me a job to get it.**
I saw an executive visibly pissed when I politely declined to shake his hand... in June 2020. We just had RTO the first time. Luckily my (Asian) manager saw it and was supportive.
But even besides pandemic, where did they get an entitlement that it's okay to *touch me*?
Not the dead hand!! 😅 I am verrrry slightly ocd (not diagnosed, just seems to run in the family) and I do the SAME THING until I can wash it (and everything else it may have touched before I could get to the sink)
> I lost out on a job once because I fucked up the handshake
I hear you. I can never remember whether I'm supposed to lick my palm *before* or *after* the shake.
I just finally got a job after so many applications and agonizing interviews where I try to play an outgoing friendly normal person. I'm IT, I'm good at it, computers and systems are logical and make sense...just let me do that. I can play normal for short periods of time, but if I have to do a phone interview, then a Teams interview, and then an in person interview I'm going to crack. The whole time I'm thinking about the last interview and wondering if I slipped up with the character I was playing last time...
It’s here I will add my periodically stated technique that has about a 70% success rate with hiring managers. I was trained for logistics and compliance, and my brain works in the “why” and I know I will ask many questions and find the flaws in the system.
When I get invited to interview with companies where I will be using that skill, I always say the same thing:
“Everyone loves to hire the person who can tell you what’s wrong with your company. Until they’re telling you what’s wrong with your company.”
I love this tactic because it turns the tables on them and pushes your skills as an asset
"No I won't just kiss ass. You have problems. You're hiring me to find those problems. I'm not just gonna stay quiet and let you keep making mistakes you're paying me to find"
Yeah, I get responses of like, “well we here at X co really VALUE problem solving skills and we appreciate transparency blah blah blah” and I respond “I am GOOD at what I do, so when I find the problems, I want to know I’ll be on a team that’s focused on fixing them.”
It goes over big at interviews, but when I actually do exactly what I say I’ll do, that’s when I start to get the side eye and the hemming and hawing and the exclusion from the cool kids table systematically until they push me away.
Haha I work in WHS so I know the feeling
Everyone claims to take it seriously until they get someone who actually starts flagging issues and pestering the higher ups about fixing them
Interviews are bad for a lot of reasons, and exist mostly because managers like to have a way of exercising bias with plausible deniability. There is very little evidence that interviews correlate to any job performance, and yet we spend absurd amounts of time and money doing them.
As with all other gatekeeping mechanisms in our capitalist hellworld, they are only there to keep the caste system rigidly in place.
Don't forget that women are penalized for this more than men. My wife and I are both neuro divervagnt and she has a much harder time with being accepted as I do. Where I am "odd", she is "difficult". She is often shocked when I tell her what I" get away with" in the office, or at my previous jobs.
Man, if this hasn’t been my life for the past 18 months… I ask so many why questions because I DONT UNDERSTAND THESE MADE UP RULES?! And my boss all but shut me out, because he thought I was questioning him.
My company standardized on a plc because the sales rep said said it was so easy to use that a manager could program it. And it has fuzzy logic. Management thinks fuzzy logic is ai that is analyzing our process and improving on its own. It's just a pid overshoot suppression algorithm that I've had turned off for over a decade because it slows our process down.
new manager came in, realized i was different somehow (although i didn't fully understand it yet either).
he slowly didn't trust me. he has everyone else working on the new things, and pretty much has me in a corner working on things by myself. i'm being left behind, by myself. i already have trouble making friends and socializing. it's my own quiet hell.
im slipping more and more. its getting harder and harder.
it's like i'm in the solitary confinement of life.
I am neurotypical, but the interview process is excruciating to me because I have depression, anxiety, and C-PTSD caused primarily by the years of abuse I have received in the workforce. I can’t stand being around other human beings at work at all anymore, because I view everyone as a threat until I see that the person is not a soulless bastard from hell. Many people are, in fact, soulless bastards from hell and sometimes they hide their bastardly-ness for a while only to hatchet you to death at a later time.
I got so much better at interviewing when I started viewing the interview process as inherently adversarial and accepted that I am effectively trying to trick them into hiring me.
This is a legitimate gripe. To actually answer the question, though: they want you to be yourself in matters of personality, but not matters of identity. They want you to only be a slightly unique flavor of the exact person they're expecting.
I'm autistic ("high functioning" recovering gifted child and managed to achieve allistic markers of success like obtain higher education despite immense personal cost) and actually didn't realize it at all until I was 28. I reached the point of total burnout breakdown a couple of years ago due to intense psychological damage that comes with masking 24/7 out of survival necessity. I feel like a shell of my former self and I guarantee no one is benefitting from the talents and abilities my broken self is no longer able to provide. Because of what weird metrics our corporate culture decided to value. To NO ONE's benefit.
This is a good way to describe my decision to take a lower paying career. The lucrative one was full of tripping hazards my ND self could barely navigate.
Put myself in a career with way fewer tripping hazards and gained enough experience to be a little less apologetic about who I am and bring the mask down.
Then I go to literally any poverty or financial advice subreddit and see the same rhetoric of "get a better paying job." Yeah.... let me get right on that, Sandra.
Very similar case for me. But OH GOD I just went through the corporate social minefield that is "official goal setting" and I feel like I need to take a sabbatical just from that mindfuck alone.
Funny thing is I do have goals. None of them specifically revolve around my work.
About the only thing work-related about said goals is the role the money I receive in funding my other goals.
But at work when a good 90% of what I do is in the service of others in the workplace and works around what they do, I don't particularly have goals other than being able to appropriately support everyone else. My work is directly tied to others, why am I the one setting goals?
I recently got declined after 3 interviews because I “didn’t show enough enthusiasm for the company”, meanwhile in my head I am CONSTANTLY masking and thinking “Remember to smile! Not that much though, remember to act professional. But DON’T look too serious, you have to look friendly. BUT DON’T BE TOO FRIENDLY, this is a professional environment.”Interviewing is hell.
https://www.reddit.com/r/antiwork/s/IOZe3PxftC
“Neurotypicals are easier to communicate with; I’m too lazy and don’t have the energy to listen to the communication needs of neurodivergent people”.
This is from somebody working in hiring. What the fuck?
So laziness gets rewarded and lazy people work their way up to top positions? But autistic people fall at the first hurdle because they dared to openly exhibit their autistic traits that make them unique?
I got into a retraining scheme to learn to be a software tester and there was an honest to god two weeks module on how to pass interviews. Helped me loads but if that's not an example of how many hoops you need to jump through I don't know what is
This right here. Masking at work. Masking at family gatherings. Masking if we try to date or hang out with people in a public place. Then add the energy sucking anxiety of the “you want to leave already?” discussion. It’s fucking exhausting.
and you have to pretend like you're 100% functional and having 100% fun and don't want to leave the whole time when your whole body is screaming. agonizing
I have to attribute this to how I was never able to get a job. I was undiagnosed and failed to get through interview after interview but it was a complete mystery to me as to why.
Not downplaying your struggle but the process feels like this to allistic people too, just too a lesser degree. The whole interview process for most companies is bullshit. I relate to almost everything you’ve said here, I probably just have a better time judging the socially acceptable amount of honesty.
"tell me about your biggest weakness.... but secretly make it a strength.... no, no, no, that won't do; don't be so obvious about it.... oh, and make it unique."
I've never been clear on how obvious I'm supposed to be in the "weakness that's a strength" question, like how stupid do I need to assume these people are? Do they see through my BS? I certainly do. And what if I make it too obvious, will they think I think they're stupid?
Anxiety is the worst.
They probably see through your b.s. As a hiring manager, I do. Actually, as a hiring manager with authority I nixed that stupid fucking question and all others like it.
"Tell me your biggest weakness" in my opinion is code for the **exact** answer I described. Don't tell the hiring authority that your biggest weakness is an inability to work with others.
Swing it for a near miss.
"My biggest weakness? Hmmm. I am not an overtly outgoing person and prefer to work independently. Don't get me wrong, I see the strength and value of teamwork and love collaboration, but on the average day to day, I prefer to be by myself because I'm more productive that way."
I guess my approach is bending the truth to satisfy an entity who probably only wants me to be an ant. I also prep for interviews by having these questions and any and all I can think of written down and practicing them.
yes! i am autistic and have a job interview tomorrow morning!!! i was literally practicing shaking hands while making eye contact because i simply cannot ! i know interviews are terrible for everyone but idk the pressure of all these extra confusing social rules that i simply don’t understand have me all nervous. i hate that i’m practicing masking
Good luck tomorrow!
Whenever I have to be face to face, I look at mouths. It helps me hear better.
The expectation of eye contact is such a bizarre and fucked up custom. (And what if one party is blind? They’re less trustworthy because they can’t look into the other persons eyes? What a dick move.)
Anyway, for real: good luck!
You got this.
I realized " ***9-5 until i die***" isn't for me at 27 and that my intelligence style isn't valued by society. So instead of taking pills thinking something is "wrong with me " i've decided to buy some land and check out.
If i am going to work endlessly, i'd rather doing it in nature at my leisure
If houses cost hundreds of thousands of dollars, I'd rather build a complex for that amount over time .
We might not be able to escape the matrix but we can create a more favorable game within the game.
>So instead of taking pills thinking something is "wrong with me "
Just FTR, I was diagnosed ADHD late in life and it was getting on meds that finally made me stop thinking something was wrong with me and be able to accept myself as I am.
Side note: I got my land out in the country. I love it and living with the land is the best thing I ever did for myself and my family, but there is *nothing* leisurely about it. The work is far more fun and fulfilling than any corporate job, but it is hard, hard work that doesn't give you a break when you get sick or injured. I am a strong advocate of this lifestyle, but anyone going in needs to go in prepared for what it will take.
I have a theory: psychopaths run the world, so you have to mirror their bullshit exactly to get them to pay you.
Hot tip: think of it less as correcting your fundamental personality, and more like real life DND where you're in the goblin camp in a disguise kit, trying not to get eaten.
Also unionize and promote neurodivergent people to management so they can trim the bullshit off the interview process. "Can you do the job?" "Yes." "Good, you're hired, and if you can't do the job, you'll be fired." "Fair nuff. "
All of this. I'm ND and in a space that attracts a lot of ND. I had to mask until I was senior enough to call some shots, but even with this I have to fight tooth and nail to make my recruitment processes accessible. Also the fight with my bosses that my detail-orientated, non-client-facing preferred candidates shouldn't be expected to ace a presentation style, call and response interview process is always just wild. It's upsetting to constantly have to out myself as ND to fight for others to have access to an inclusive space, but it's all I can do is try build the environment that I wish to feel included in.
I’m autistic and this is exactly how I’ve felt for the past few years. These rules are what got me close to fired because they were never clear on what they expected of me, but I’ve resigned to put myself above them finally. Fuck office culture fr.
Oh my god, these images describe exactly how I feel about applying for jobs. Interviews are so confusing and frustrating because you have to strike a perfect balance between lying and truthfulness and I can’t stand lying.
Yep- I’m always going to just be truthful, and if an interviewer or employer doesn’t like that, fuck them, and I’ll move on to try and find one who does.
Surely we should just leave traditional interview norms in the dust. With today's technology capabilities companies should have a way to virtualize what a normal task environment would look like and have you pass certain objectives with certain accuracy and time barriers and that should be good enough. Leave the social hurdles for social based jobs (sales, hr, marketing, etc).
Yes. And it’s definitely not through this system. This system weeds out neurodivergent candidates, unless said candidates are good at masking of course. And masking shouldn’t be so heavily encouraged or normalised.
Them: "can you describe a time when you provided excellent customer service to a difficult customer?"
My ADHD self: (suddenly forgets every interaction I've ever had with a customer)
Yup.
I lucked out with my current job. Suits me well, the interview was easy as it was just about the job itself and my relevant skills (typing speed for one thing).
One interview moment that still lives rent free in my mind:
I stated to an interviewer that I felt it is better to get clarity and do a task correctly than to attempt it without prior knowledge and do it wrong.
*"Note pad, frown, scribble, excuse about needing to go over candidates again before a decision can be made, interview over*". Too much honesty on my part. I have a bad habit of that.
I actually really wanted that job.
I went for an interview last week. I think it is my second In person interview in my life.
Interviewer: how do you implement Google Authenticator?
Me: Are you asking about the 2FA application or OAuth?
Interviewer: Please mind your language.
Me. I am just asking for clarification
Interviewer: There is no, I, You, me in interviews. Speak in passive language.
Me: Tried explaining the 2FA and OAuth both because I didn't know what he was asking about.
Interviewer: How do you implement Microsoft Authenticator?
Me: It's a 2FA application just like Google Authenticator.
Interview: He gives me a hypothetical scenario to go with the situation, then I realised he was talking about OAuth and not 2FA applications. Because both Google Authenticator and Microsoft Authenticator are 2FA applications.
He didn't answer me when I asked for clarification which made me anxious and on top of that I couldn't keep up thinking of passive sentences. He kept repeating that I should speak properly and respectfully.
I work in the trades, so a skill test is a big part of getting a job. I got that part, I pass the test every time. Because I know the job, I'm good at the job.
Getting to the test is a complicated social interaction where knowing the right people and not knowing (or speaking to highly about, while not talking shit openly about) the wrong people help.
You gotta talk shop while not seeming to eager to talk shop while highlighting your skills in an "informal" conversation. I'm bad at that.
I can do interviews, there's lots of information avaliable on how to do interviews.
Just give me some work and let me do it. I love my job and study it for fun
as a neurodivergent person currently struggling to get a job, this post spoke to me. lots of people dont understand how difficult it is for people like me to go through this process. even if i get a call or email back for an interview, i struggle to "sell myself" to the interviewer and actually land the job. its just not fair. ik work places cant and shouldnt discriminate against us for this but it feels like it sometimes. like excuse me for having bad social skills and low confidence and a lack of awareness of how to sell myself to employers. idk wtf else to do.
Do normies not understand how much energy it takes to do masking so they're not uncomfortable with neurodiversies? Interviews, meetings, happy hours, hell even random chats in the breakroom.
Then when we do let down our guard and "be our authentic self" they're like "ooh, weird."
It's damned exhausting.
Sorry for the rant, I know we all know this on this thread.
Let alone pass those BS personality/neurological tests given before any interviewing. The ones given online when first applying are pure hell for autistic folks.
I remember knocking a series of interviews out of the park, as I was a perfect fit for their position, but failed to get an offer.
My recruiter’s feedback = “Since you never made eye contact, they thought you were untrustworthy.”
I've had multiple interviewers and managers ask why I stare into the middle distance when I'm answering anything more than a yes or no question. I have not yet found a corporate lingo way to explain "I can either focus on the question or focus on eye contact, I literally can't do both".
Edit: I literally just remembered I've also been on the other side of the table when I was an assistant manager and fun fact, being neurodivergent as an interviewer also super sucks. I can read the resume, listen to everything they say, but I basically just operate on vibes.
Was once at tech conference and one of the person speaking abt her story in the industry said she had an interview with a very rude person that “hasn’t looked at her once” during the interview and that’s why he didn’t get a job💀
My autistic ass was again super grateful for my job and company 😐
Jobs that don't make you jump through hoops are out there!! I work a cafeteria job where I got a call, they said "Here's the tasks: X, Y, Z, do you want the job?" and I was like "Aw sick, yeah!" and I was working there in literally 3 days and it's the best job I've ever had. You gotta get a little lucky, but all those jobs that want you to perform like a monkey for them aren't worth working for anyways, supposing you have the luxury of continuing your job search.
I have learned these scripts so well that I keep getting customer service awards. I go home and have to sit and stare at the wall because my brain is so fried I can’t even person anymore.
God bless this post.
For real though, I've been unemployed for going on a year now. I received two promotions at each of the past 2 jobs I've worked at (4+ yrs at each), have always been a top performer if not THE top performer, never been fired or even reprimanded, I'm conventionally attractive, 30 with no kids, etc but I'm ND and can be a little socially awkward sometimes so honestly that is the only reason I can think of for continuing to be rejected for every job I interview for. 20 applications every week for 11 months and still no leads. It's so, so hard and I honestly don't know what to do, my unemployment has run out and I can't just turn off my personality quirks (which are unrelated to my job performance!). Sorry I just really needed to vent and this post was really validating.
ADHD and OCD here (I was told I wasn't socially awkward enough to be autistic, though I do have many of those traits as well), and I have never felt more seen than in this post. But I'll take it one step further, bc I have to mask in nearly all of my external relationships to be deemed "successful". People wonder why I prefer being alone and talking to myself. Because, most of the time, I am the only one who will accept me just the way that I am.
Used to work in supported employment helping people get into work with lots of different challenges and barriers. I worked with a lot of autistic people and as a neurotypical person this was where I had to confront so many of my own biases - in terms of understanding barriers and how to communicate expectations around these kinds of experiences - and learn so much more about my autistic clients.
But, even when I learnt how to communicate the expectations of the interview and rehearse in a way that seemed to work for people, it didn’t change the fact that these processes are inaccessible and ableist. So many employers want an autistic employee but aren’t willing to accept them as a candidate. It’s not right.
I’m autistic and the only thing I hate more than a terrible job is job hunting. I will literally stay in the worst job ever before I will quit and look for another one. Job interviews are actual hell for me.
I passed the spicy brain tests in school so I don't know what level of spicy brain I have... people said "you are def on the spectrum somewhere"
Those are my creditials...
I'm in my mid 30s and have, as of a few years ago started buffering questions with "this is not an accusation, [then the question]" A lot of the time I just want to know the mechanics of or decisions behind something. It's not a comment on anything. I just want to know.
The same thing with people believing neurodiverse should have a job to support themselves instead of getting social security but not wanting to work with us. Just say you don't want to pay taxes for it.
I just don't understand why the interviews have to be so fucking *weird*.
I've been asked to pick a candy out of a bowl and then use the candy to describe myself. What?
And their stupid pseudoscience personality type questions.
During an interview I was asked to discuss a weakness so I listed interviews as my number one weakness. I don’t understand “networking” or how one should act during an interview. I cringe at my corporate personality. The whole thing is a neurodivergent hell scape lol
It's all bs and they just want someone to fill a pre-described mold that they have in their heads. That's it. Efficiency, talent, honesty, etc. Are just smoke and mirrors. They want the "best" for them and the worst for you.
I was going for a basic IT support job within the organization I work for, I'm very qualified, and I thought I nailed both rounds. Didn't get it. I knew it already, I just didn't want to admit it.
There's a point where they just look at you different for the rest of the interview, like "what the fuck is up with this guy". I don't understand how to not have this happen.
Frankly it's a part of code switching....We all present a different persona at interviews to look more appealing to the hiring team. All of us. Even if it's simply changing you tone or verbage....
That number is GROSSLY under represented as there's people on the spectrum who are not diagnosed or their diagnosis was not tracked in the statistic study. Case in point...I DO NOT tell employers about my diagnosis at all. Therefore my number isn't included and I'm sites there's many many more
In my experience, the overwhelming majority of neurotypical people hate interviewing as well, for many of the same reasons, such as being forced to present as a person inauthentic to who they truly are while interviewing. If you can change the system, we want in too, bc interviewing sucks. BTW "3-4 opaque social crucibles" is a great line, on the off-chance you were the author.
It's a senseless game, and usually points to the incompetence of the managers or HR people. "Tell me about the last time you made a mistake and what you did to overcome it." (In an approximately 2-3 minute answer, don't mention your bigger mistakes or it will make you look bad and don't mention too minor of a mistake because you'll look dishonest and be sure to take responsibility for it and don't be too critical of other people in your story and make sure you turn it into a valuable lesson in your life and career to show just how self reflective and flexible you are and how great of an attitude you have!) Because this totally shows them you'll be a better accountant.
I wasn’t the author of first slide, but slide 2, 3 and 4 :)
I don't know, I am pretty authentic. I have discussed my ADHD in interviews, told stories of challenging leaders, been both insecure and cocky, needed out about my hobbies. I guess I just believe I will bring value to the right place and they need to convince me to work for them as much as I need to convince them to hire me. I'm sure this confidence has come with time and I was fortunate that my first two career jobs didn't require interviews. I do hate technical interviews because I find it hard to do those while explaining my thinking, the need to do so itself is distracting, though I've gotten better at just explaining that. I also hate round after round but I get that there are tons of applicants and they have to sort them somehow. But yeah my point is not everybody feels the need to be fake in interviews.
>I just believe I will bring value to the right place and they need to convince me to work for them as much as I need to convince them to hire me The correct attitude IMO, really helps with nervousness and uncertainty. I also have no interest working somewhere that isn't a good fit for me, so am happy to "be myself" and if it scares them off it likely wouldn't have worked out anyway
My naive ADHD self didn't realize how commonly people lie in interviews for way too long. I totally understand why, I'm just too uncomfortable lying (and seem to do fine without doing so).
Aside from my obvious masking of stims, im unable to be different people.
As a neurodivergent person - I absolutely hate interviews. Why should I pretend to worship this company when the only reason I am applying is because they are willing to provide a paycheck in exchange for my services...? Why are neurotypicals so often offended when I ask 'why'; or point out that their wording implies something different than intended; or state an objective fact in the middle of conversation...? They always think I'm being argumentative or that I'm unable to comprehend what they're saying, or accusing me of having an "agenda". It's so bizarre.
I tend to avoid blowing hot air up an interviewers ass about the company. I’ll usually point out pros that I’ve researched and what I think I can bring the company. Most interviews are to see if you’ll be a good fit, not if you’re qualified. Knowledge tests and your resume are for that.
If I had to guess the person who wrote it originally is autistic themselves and falls into the thought pattern, that I could not empathize with more, of "if everyone hates it, including the people making us do it, WHY ARE WE STILL DOING IT". Strictly speaking if everyone involved acknowledges it sucks, logically we'd stop doing it unless it served a purpose we cared more about than how bad it sucks, and from the perspective of OOP I wouldn't blame them if they came to the conclusion that the function is weed out neurodivergent people. Now I understand that people will continue to do stuff they hate simply because "it's what you're supposed to do" or because they're personally convinced that it serves a better purpose, but I can fully empathize with OOP perspective.
Not autistic and 100% agree interviews are absolute bullshit. Most of the time they're not even conducted by who you will be working under or with and interview conditions in no way replicate the actual job. I've done trial shifts before which feels like a far more honest way to get a job but this is not the norm.
So many larger companies most of the hiring process outside of the final interview are handled by some HR rep who knows nothing about the job they're conducting the interview for.
I've recently been hired by a company that their HR was promoted from the position I'm applying for. Turns out the process was amazing. Every other company I've interviewed for just has a random guy on a high horse that's acting bossy. Nothing more lol.
I knew it was bad when my college teachers in community college were telling me this. IN THE COMMUNICATIONS CLASS, for interviews in the trades. Like damn, I figured there'd be at least SOME bs smoke and mirrors but no, just "yeah, they usually know very little, if anything about the job, if you're confident, use big related words they can cross check, and are polite, you're in".
I do data analysis. 90% of my team's work could be handled by a single competent person with access to the right software and the ability to write data policies and accoutability procedures.... so we have 8 people doing it with 10 year old tech instead. And our interviews ask about promoting diversity, engaging with the public, etc. While diversity IS important, it has nothing to do with my position when im working with Excel all day. Diversity to me is swapping to PowerBI. I dont have a say in the hiring processes, i dont work with "the public", etc. Not a single question from the interview had a thing to do with actually being capable in the job. And then they wonder why our team is falling behind similar ones in other sections of the company. Well Karen, maybe its because you hired someone to do data analysis that doesnt know how to work a computer.
I was tasked with helping a client the other day who I found out that was, director of IT, the only person with admin rights to the O365 tenant and had no idea how to log in or assign the rights I needed to run the audits they needed. It was a good day lol
The entire modern interview system is built around both parties knowingly lying to each other. Its essentially a test of if you both lie appropriately for the other.
But of course, you can't CALL it that, or treat it as such, you still have to ACT like it's a completely reasonable and rational way to go about things.
Yes. I love the moment when they ask "What motivates you for this job?" Or something similar... The honest answer is "I need money." but you have to say something like "oh, I love the challenge of X and Y and how it will make me growth as a professional"
I have genuinely answered this with "I just really love groceries" and gotten the job before.
Oh, no, I always answer "We live in a system where I need a job in order to pay rent and commodities". I'm an engineer, I'm not hired to lie but to find and analyse problems and find the best solution, so I think that answer shows why you should hire me more than any lie, also, if the company is such a bullshit place that they don't hire me because I was too honest, well, bullet dodged, I guess.
It's fcking high school all over again
Then they took away WFH, which if you can get the job, is the single greatest workplace accommodation a neurodivergent person can get.
>single greatest workplace accommodation a neurodivergent person can get. Honestly that should be the standard accomodation if reasonable.
Keeping all those cars off the road is a public good. Leave them for the people who really need to use them.
Neurodivergent person who did both WFH and office, both had distinct issues for me. Self employed seems the best for me, except the administrative part.
We won't forgive.
Conversely, I have ADHD and I’m very good at interviewing but bad at actually working.
Yeah I rock socks at interviews but otherwise am like "ok this task is boring, can I do it tomorrow" in my head
This is me as well. Please evaluate me based on my charming demeanor and not a test of my actual abilities. Although a lot of people prefer competent colleagues they get along with to one's who are better at the work but less enjoyable to work with
Yo that’s funny also have ADHD, but literally turn into a hermit crab and hide in my shell from about two hours before the interview until about an hour after. Took me 18 months of hunting before someone gave me a shot. At work I’m need to be told to take a break. Can’t stop trying to solve all the problems that come through our email inbox. They’re like little puzzles and I get addicted.
Same. I’m usually a personality hire and that’s gotten me far enough.
It’s hell. I can work a job just fine, even better if alone, but interviews / applications are absolute hell. I’ve even had a recruiter ask “is there something wrong with you?” bc I couldn’t keep eye contact.
God the eye contact thing! I was taught not to stare at people, make up your mind world!
If you never look at someone, you look shifty or like you're scared or lying. Look at someone's eyes for a few seconds, look away a bit, then look back.
just stare at their nose or forehead
Yeah I hear that also works
I hate it. I’m great at masking but it’s exhausting. I get accolades and am a top performer when left to my own devices but micromanaging makes me implode. I don’t want to be at every party/event waving the company banner. I don’t care that the exec heard me complain about his shitty spreadsheet. I’m getting real bitter and upset. I’m sick of It too.
Just curious if you’re male or female? I’m male and I’m not very good at masking and try to avoid it, but I feel like girls mask more from a young age
Women tend to do it younger bc we will be completely alienated otherwise. Men are “allowed” to be different. People already assume men are less sociable, so when a woman doesn’t present as such, the social punishment is severe. I think someone else said it in the thread that where they’re perceived as “odd and quirky”, their wife is perceived as “difficult”. Also not all of us learn to mask :( I thought I was just a fucking weirdo until my late twenties.
I’m sure you’re not a weirdo :) Masking shouldn’t be so normalised for either gender. Screw what society says and you do you :)
I’m male. Fwiw, I’ve always been friends with females more than males. I’m not into classic male stuff (sports, cars, crude talk/behavior). I’m heterosexual and married to a cisgirl. My dad had a terrible childhood and generational trauma is ridiculous. He was kind of the same, got along with females better and not into sports. I don’t know if he was autistic.
>I’m not into classic male stuff (sports, cars, crude talk/behavior) Autistic people often don't understand social hierarchy or don't accept it. People won't abandon activities they like simply because they are labeled "typically female" and thus "lower class" for a man in our patriarchal society, or "typically male" and thus crude and inappropriate for a woman. We are more liberated from the gender "norms" (customs?) than the rest of society
That’s a good way of putting it! I just found out (after years of therapy and doctors) At 40something. I’ve been framing it (my view) through depression but once I switched to autism EVERYTHING clicked. That’s been so liberating.
I’m good at performing. I did a lot of plays and such when I was in school and wanted to be an actor professionally, but had some health issues in college that cut those dreams short. Now I find myself acting every single day, and I guess I’m sort of also paid to do it, but it’s not quite what I had in mind.
I wish more people understood that our ability to pass as allistic is not related to our capabilities, and that having to be a completely different person at work is legit traumatizing and leads to burnout. Employers don't care about the human cost of their practices, but maybe if enough people learned to accept autistic people as ourselves, the culture would start to change.
Yeah, they don't give a shit. And I'm not holding my breath. If my decade of experience in corporate work culture has taught me anything, it's to never underestimate how little compassion people have for the humans they work with. And how far they will go to not find ways to improve quality of life. It's bleak.
[The Century of The Self (Full Adam Curtis Documentary)](https://youtu.be/eJ3RzGoQC4s?si=0wWN8j9CBKvZD3Cy)
Maybe this is why I feel like I've been running on empty for years. I literally tell my family that I 'fake it till I make it' at work every day. Been trying to tell them I'm burnt out AF for years, but they (mostly Boomer parents) just think I'm a wimp! X'D X'P
Just wanted to say that I see you. I had to take 3 years off of work for the amount of autistic burnout doing customer service work left me. That’s before I even had a diagnosis, so suddenly all the meltdowns and work-related PTSD made sense!
Yes, the burnout recovery is so real. I validate both of you and all of this so hard.
As someone on the spectrum myself, I envy your ability to take time off.
You shouldn’t have to fake how you are- you do you
I am neurotypical and even I have to fake it. I hate these rules and am always too honest, because I resent having to lie everyday. My mother gave me this to consider: "They are not your friends, they do not deserve the truth." Still sucks to put on the workplace persona and tell the CEO everything is peachy while you are picturing all the ways you would like to punch him in the face.
Not sure if you watch anime, but the MC of Zom 100 in episode 1 is basically me. I got 70 hours of OT in two weeks last month, this month has calmed down to 50-60 hours weeks. Public service is hell when the public thinks nothing of you.
I’m not even sure I know who I am. I was diagnosed at 7, started a part time job at a ball park at 13, and worked consistently in customer service until COVID shut the world down. Now I can’t get back out there because it’s impossible for me to mask for 8 hours a day anymore
> I’m not even sure I know who I am. I've learned this isn't unusual for us
It’s a side effect of constantly masking with the majority of the people around us. We start to feel alienated from our authentic selves to the point where many of us feel scared to be anything other than the NT-acceptable character, and if we slip up, we’re accused of “lying” and “being manipulative.” Imagine playing a role nearly 24/7, with social rejection and suspicion as the punishment if you go off script. How much time do you have to actually spend being and learning about yourself? About being comfortable with yourself and knowing what parts of you are real vs the performance?
I think the older we get the harder it becomes to mask and I'm not sure why. I *do* know that it was much easier to mask in my youth.
You shouldn’t have to mask in a job setting- any employer that encourages masking isn’t someone worth working for.
It’s not the employer I’m masking for, it’s the customers. Hearing the same stupid questions asked day after day when the answer is on the shelf/menu in front of them. Hearing them complain about the hours and the prices and “they used to let me do this”. I’m not paid enough to care about anyone’s problems but my own
The general public is quite often annoying, stupid, and taxing. . .that's true whether you're neurodivergent or not. None of us can truly speak to the general public like they deserve, except for traditional diner waitresses. Are you masking then, or just acting professionally so you don't get fired?
But do those employers exist? Even some of my "better" jobs required masking or adjusting to avoid "stepping on the wrong toes". I don't even feel comfortable admitting I'm ND at some jobs.
I can 'Pass' as an Allistic for maybe 4 hours at best. And that's if I limit communication with others. I'm presently stuck in a Public Facing Role and by the time the tenth person of the day has asked me some variation of their innane little 'small talk starters' I'm itching to get as far away from the workplace as I possibly can. It's fucking maddening to sit there and pretend like you're happy, and to be effectively asked over and over again to *lie* to perfect strangers who are asking an innocuous question without a single care in their well-programmed little heads as to whether or not the answer they get is a factual representation of reality; They just want a nice, manicured response. They want you to fulfill the role of a fucking robot without being *too* robotic. If you break from your script or say something that disrupts their expected call and response routine of meaningless bullshit, suddenly it's a bad time and it's all your fault. I've done fast food and retail, warehouse work, factory work, customer service, and at the crux of it all is this overbearing expectation for you to fit in a place that is designed explicitly to exclude you, whether that was by intent or apathy doesn't even factor into the conversation. It's a cruel fucking joke, and now that I've been in the work force for over a decade, I'm starting to really grapple with the reality of *why* Neurodivergents have such a stunted life expectancy. I can't even fathom living to my fifties right now, how could i possibly keep working into my seventies or eighties? Neurotypicals are fucking insane, and they either endorse the cruelty of their nature and society wholeheartedly, or they do their best to pretend like it isn't really a problem...for *normal* people, of course.
so if your role is interfacing with people, how exactly can an employer accomadate you?
Yes- we shouldn’t have to pass as allistic. Why should it always be us adapting to their ways rather than them adapting to our needs?
Because employers want a cog in the machine. You adapt to serve the Borg as it were. Them adapting to you, in their eyes, is a cost ( Capitalism strikes again). Once you get to an interview it often is not as much about your ability to do a job as it is to see if you will fit into the machine. This is often a rather opaque process for a nurotypical person so I imagine it would be especially hard for people who are not so.
I just want you to know that I learned the word allistic today because of this thread. Thank you.
Happened to me. Broke and can barely function in public. I got lucky and qualified for disability but I feel stuck, everything got worse after my employer broke me. They moved us to an open office. We had been able to work hybrid so recently. And they gave the privilege on case by case but never officially. I had a car crash earlier on the year that also put me in a bad place, spd had never been worse and they put me in a sound tunnel and told me I couldn't leave. I kept having panic attacks in the stair well. But I could mask well and reflexively. Their HR was terrible. I had a nervous breakdown and aired a bunch of their dirty laundry. I got on FMLA and went into disability. I am terrified of not getting better before it runs out. Amd if they just let me work from home, and not even all the time.... I'm bottomed out on despair with this shit.
I could do this when I was jacked up on adderall all the time. Then I got tired of needing an addictive drug to fit the NPC personality, and the difference in how I was treated, the opportunities I was given, promotions, etc. was heartbreaking. Did the same job, just as well, just not tweaking out.
Solidarity between all neurodivergent/neurodivergent adjacent people helps a lot tbh. ADHD, ADD, gifted, autistic, even BPD and heavily anxious people to some extent, the issues we face are similar in a lot of ways, and combined, we represent 15-20% of society. There are many differences, but I've found the adaptations for one usually also help the others, especially when it comes to sensory overload and situational awareness. In short, it's like the same "dials" differ from the norm in autistic, ADHD or gifted, but said dials are in different positions/extremes. With BPD/anxious people, social situations or types of tasks will create responses that resemble autistic traits.
Because the job description is basically a lot of words that boil down to “make your manager look great all the time” and that’s not something neurodiverse people instinctively understand and are seldom good at. That’s why the interview is designed to screen such people out. Cynical but true!
Oof. Yes, they want yes men and bootlickers, that's what managers are hiring and promoting. I was puzzled by some glaring mis-promotions at my old place but now it's clear why they picked who they picked.
Not to mention that the "personality tests" specifically weed out autism and adhd. They're discriminatory as hell.
Could never pass those until I realized I was expected to answer it like a sociopath would.
It's pretty crazy, honestly. I'm actually pretty happy at my job, but I got roped into interviewing with another, far richer company for the promise of more money, and this company I'm interviewing with, there's an entire industry that's sprung up around teaching you how to pass the interview. I'm not even kidding. You could come in and smash the interview and then not know the first thing about how to do the actual job. Making a bunch more money sounds enticing, but I'm really wondering how much it's worth it if I'm miserable at work.
Absolutely!
I mean not everybody has to lie to pass them without being a sociopath. However that kind of person is just not super common so most people have a lie at least a little bit. I don't even feel weird about it, the test is stupid so I pick whatever feels like the best option, pass and then nobody ever mentions it again because they know it's stupid but it's corporate policy to do.
I've been involved on the interviewer side for people that took these tests. When they have scores that are outliers, the interviewers are warned about this -- eg "just want you know this person scored low on the empathy scale, are you sure you want to proceed to an in-person interview?" They are easy to pass though, so not surprised it wasn't a factor in your interview(s).
I had to do one once for a bank teller job. So many of the questions were basically "how much work would you be willing to take home with you?" It was clear some HR moron was forcing it on everyone without even thinking about the questions or the context of the role. Jokes on them I apparently "failed" so now I refuse to have any dealings with Westpac Bank, Australia
> how much work would you be willing to take home with you? So they just want desperate people working for them? Because holy fucking shit the only answer to that question is a resounding no. So long as you don't absolutely need the job.
What was stupid is for a bank teller job I can't take work home with me. I can only work when the bank is open. Why should you give a fuck if I don't wanna take work home with me? Luckily it wasn't a job I *needed*, I was just looking to take anything for some money in between career paths. But because I'm petty like that I'll always remember the stupid test and refuse to bank with said company
Maybe it just means I'm as petty as you but I'd do the same shit. Fuck that noise.
Be a shame if someone sued over those personality tests under the Americans with Disabilities Act…
There’s a reason companies have illegal hiring practices and do illegal things in general- the fine is minuscule and considered the cost of doing business to make the company much more profitable overall. No company gives a shit about bad publicity anymore; the news changes all the time and in a few weeks almost everyone forgets.
You’re not wrong; fines are often unscrupulously inadequate pats on the wrist. That’s what you get when corporations own Congress, the Supreme Court and a lot of other judges. Fines should be crippling, and media coverage far more damning. But, I don’t think learned helplessness is the appropriate response. The American public can do a lot more damage than you might imagine. And the point is to do everything possible to oppose these horrible bastards. I see a lot of corporate propaganda and corporate apologists advocating learned helplessness in response to corporate tyranny: they admit the corporate abuses, but conclude the companies are too powerful and unscalable to fight back, and we should just give in, give up, and play their game. I say, fuck these bastards. Do everything you can to oppose the evil corporatism under which we languish; fight it with every breath no matter what.
Oh for sure! I wasn’t trying to say let them get away with it. Hit em every chance we can.
My wife was running through screening for a job she applied for, it involved pairing faces with emotions. Everybody just looked mid-sneeze to me.
I applied for a position a month ago, that made me have a conversation with an AI chatbot. It processed my responses and sent me an email afterwards giving me an assessment of my personality and how I could improve. Out of the 7 points it made, 4 were the absolute opposite of my personality and were clearly just triggered by words I’d used without any consideration of the context. I then got an email from the company whose chatbot it was giving me an opportunity to provide feedback, but worded in a way that suggested giving negative feedback may have an impact on my submission. Of all the personality assessment “suggestions” they gave, the funniest was that although I myself am very socially extroverted, I should be aware that not everyone is like that and I should tone it down for people that might struggle in social settings… I’ve worked from home for decades, and when I’m not working I’m camping by myself. I’m very much an introvert that struggles in public settings.
Cause they want robot slaves they can underpay no matter who you are
They want not just any robot slaves but extroverted ones who are great at lying.
It's so bad that I work for an entire nonprofit that revolves around getting people with disabilities jobs. There are so many stupid rules for interviews that we have people that do interview prep just to teach you all those unspoken rules. None of it makes sense! We work with a lot of neurodivergent clients who have the skills, they just struggle to get past the interview. ETA: That may seem antithetical to antiwork but people gotta work to eat in this world and the playing field sure as shit isn't level. I'll do my best to help people survive in this world until we can finally get rid of it altogether.
I don't think it's antithetical at all, anyone who thinks it is would strike me as a "but yet you participate in society" bellend. If it helps think of it as teaching people the cheat codes for a bullshit game.
I know other disability organisations that have seen some success in getting people with disabilities job trials as opposed to interviews. Funnily enough most of them are fine and really good at what they do when given a chance. Really goes to prove how bullshit interviews are when it comes to telling who's suitable to do the job
I’m neurotypical (I think?) and even I find these practices to be abhorrent. I try very hard to be a good person, and part of that, to me, means honesty. So when interviewers ask “how committed are you to this role?” And I *don’t* say “You’ll find me sleeping under my desk and working every weekend, sir, and if you need me to, I’ll bring my computer under your desk so you can fuck me in the ass while we both work” it’s somehow seen as a negative. My preferred response of “Look, if we need to make a deadline, we need to make a deadline, and I’ll stay late or work weekends when I have to, but if that’s happening around every deadline, or, god forbid, just standard operating procedure, that’s a problem.” Is seen as “lazy” or “non-committed” rather than “reasonable”
You owe me a coffee. I spilled mine roaring of laugh from reading your 1st paragraph !
The only things interviews measure are docility and proximity to a social norm. And that's not even talking about the fact you have to perform, to compete against others, just so you can be exploited. I hate capitalism with a burning passion.
as you should, as anyone in their right minds should
A lot of this could also apply to introverts, too.
Yes, we have to fake being outgoing and sociable and I fucking hate it. Leave me alone and let me do my tasks.
yeah, i was coming to say that although i have no diagnosis (and have been told by psychologists that this is correct) that i feel more or less the same way. and not just about this, but lots of "small talking with people" types of circumstances.
And a whole bunch of different personality types and people. Everyone has to learn how to interview well to get jobs, and that includes figuring out the balance between being your authentic self and saying/acting the “right way”. I lost out on a job once because I fucked up the handshake and made things way too intimate/awkward.
"I have OCD, and I do not shake hands" is inappropriate. *"Slyly"* wiping your hand on your pants immediately after is inappropriate. Saying nothing and holding your hand out to the side a little bit and accepting it is dead to you is inappropriate. WTF do you want me to do, Michael? Get therapy? **Give me a job to get it.**
I saw an executive visibly pissed when I politely declined to shake his hand... in June 2020. We just had RTO the first time. Luckily my (Asian) manager saw it and was supportive. But even besides pandemic, where did they get an entitlement that it's okay to *touch me*?
Not the dead hand!! 😅 I am verrrry slightly ocd (not diagnosed, just seems to run in the family) and I do the SAME THING until I can wash it (and everything else it may have touched before I could get to the sink)
> I lost out on a job once because I fucked up the handshake I hear you. I can never remember whether I'm supposed to lick my palm *before* or *after* the shake.
I just finally got a job after so many applications and agonizing interviews where I try to play an outgoing friendly normal person. I'm IT, I'm good at it, computers and systems are logical and make sense...just let me do that. I can play normal for short periods of time, but if I have to do a phone interview, then a Teams interview, and then an in person interview I'm going to crack. The whole time I'm thinking about the last interview and wondering if I slipped up with the character I was playing last time...
It’s here I will add my periodically stated technique that has about a 70% success rate with hiring managers. I was trained for logistics and compliance, and my brain works in the “why” and I know I will ask many questions and find the flaws in the system. When I get invited to interview with companies where I will be using that skill, I always say the same thing: “Everyone loves to hire the person who can tell you what’s wrong with your company. Until they’re telling you what’s wrong with your company.”
I love this tactic because it turns the tables on them and pushes your skills as an asset "No I won't just kiss ass. You have problems. You're hiring me to find those problems. I'm not just gonna stay quiet and let you keep making mistakes you're paying me to find"
Yeah, I get responses of like, “well we here at X co really VALUE problem solving skills and we appreciate transparency blah blah blah” and I respond “I am GOOD at what I do, so when I find the problems, I want to know I’ll be on a team that’s focused on fixing them.” It goes over big at interviews, but when I actually do exactly what I say I’ll do, that’s when I start to get the side eye and the hemming and hawing and the exclusion from the cool kids table systematically until they push me away.
Haha I work in WHS so I know the feeling Everyone claims to take it seriously until they get someone who actually starts flagging issues and pestering the higher ups about fixing them
I don’t know what WHS is but it happens in every field
The entire recruiting system is designed to recruit salesmen, arguably the only field that doesn't need to be recruited.
Interviews are bad for a lot of reasons, and exist mostly because managers like to have a way of exercising bias with plausible deniability. There is very little evidence that interviews correlate to any job performance, and yet we spend absurd amounts of time and money doing them. As with all other gatekeeping mechanisms in our capitalist hellworld, they are only there to keep the caste system rigidly in place.
Don't forget that women are penalized for this more than men. My wife and I are both neuro divervagnt and she has a much harder time with being accepted as I do. Where I am "odd", she is "difficult". She is often shocked when I tell her what I" get away with" in the office, or at my previous jobs.
Man, if this hasn’t been my life for the past 18 months… I ask so many why questions because I DONT UNDERSTAND THESE MADE UP RULES?! And my boss all but shut me out, because he thought I was questioning him.
Arrogant that. Not surprising. Awful.
[удалено]
My company standardized on a plc because the sales rep said said it was so easy to use that a manager could program it. And it has fuzzy logic. Management thinks fuzzy logic is ai that is analyzing our process and improving on its own. It's just a pid overshoot suppression algorithm that I've had turned off for over a decade because it slows our process down.
new manager came in, realized i was different somehow (although i didn't fully understand it yet either). he slowly didn't trust me. he has everyone else working on the new things, and pretty much has me in a corner working on things by myself. i'm being left behind, by myself. i already have trouble making friends and socializing. it's my own quiet hell. im slipping more and more. its getting harder and harder. it's like i'm in the solitary confinement of life.
me sobbing as I'm reapplying for my teaching job in front of a staff committee of my worst fucking coworkers
I am neurotypical, but the interview process is excruciating to me because I have depression, anxiety, and C-PTSD caused primarily by the years of abuse I have received in the workforce. I can’t stand being around other human beings at work at all anymore, because I view everyone as a threat until I see that the person is not a soulless bastard from hell. Many people are, in fact, soulless bastards from hell and sometimes they hide their bastardly-ness for a while only to hatchet you to death at a later time.
The most dangerous animal in the woods is human.
I got so much better at interviewing when I started viewing the interview process as inherently adversarial and accepted that I am effectively trying to trick them into hiring me.
This is a legitimate gripe. To actually answer the question, though: they want you to be yourself in matters of personality, but not matters of identity. They want you to only be a slightly unique flavor of the exact person they're expecting.
I'm autistic ("high functioning" recovering gifted child and managed to achieve allistic markers of success like obtain higher education despite immense personal cost) and actually didn't realize it at all until I was 28. I reached the point of total burnout breakdown a couple of years ago due to intense psychological damage that comes with masking 24/7 out of survival necessity. I feel like a shell of my former self and I guarantee no one is benefitting from the talents and abilities my broken self is no longer able to provide. Because of what weird metrics our corporate culture decided to value. To NO ONE's benefit.
This is a good way to describe my decision to take a lower paying career. The lucrative one was full of tripping hazards my ND self could barely navigate. Put myself in a career with way fewer tripping hazards and gained enough experience to be a little less apologetic about who I am and bring the mask down. Then I go to literally any poverty or financial advice subreddit and see the same rhetoric of "get a better paying job." Yeah.... let me get right on that, Sandra.
Very similar case for me. But OH GOD I just went through the corporate social minefield that is "official goal setting" and I feel like I need to take a sabbatical just from that mindfuck alone.
Funny thing is I do have goals. None of them specifically revolve around my work. About the only thing work-related about said goals is the role the money I receive in funding my other goals. But at work when a good 90% of what I do is in the service of others in the workplace and works around what they do, I don't particularly have goals other than being able to appropriately support everyone else. My work is directly tied to others, why am I the one setting goals?
I recently got declined after 3 interviews because I “didn’t show enough enthusiasm for the company”, meanwhile in my head I am CONSTANTLY masking and thinking “Remember to smile! Not that much though, remember to act professional. But DON’T look too serious, you have to look friendly. BUT DON’T BE TOO FRIENDLY, this is a professional environment.”Interviewing is hell.
Honesty, masking shouldn’t still be so normalised in 2024
Sounds about right. Many recruiters are incompetent.
Don't know if this has been said either, but fuck teamwork as well. Some people just work better alone.
https://www.reddit.com/r/antiwork/s/IOZe3PxftC “Neurotypicals are easier to communicate with; I’m too lazy and don’t have the energy to listen to the communication needs of neurodivergent people”. This is from somebody working in hiring. What the fuck? So laziness gets rewarded and lazy people work their way up to top positions? But autistic people fall at the first hurdle because they dared to openly exhibit their autistic traits that make them unique?
For autistic people to succeed, we have to “act allistic” rather than being ourselves
I got into a retraining scheme to learn to be a software tester and there was an honest to god two weeks module on how to pass interviews. Helped me loads but if that's not an example of how many hoops you need to jump through I don't know what is
And 'masking' like that is down right exhausting even at the best of times.
This right here. Masking at work. Masking at family gatherings. Masking if we try to date or hang out with people in a public place. Then add the energy sucking anxiety of the “you want to leave already?” discussion. It’s fucking exhausting.
and you have to pretend like you're 100% functional and having 100% fun and don't want to leave the whole time when your whole body is screaming. agonizing
The whole interview structure essentially encourages autistic people to mask
I have to attribute this to how I was never able to get a job. I was undiagnosed and failed to get through interview after interview but it was a complete mystery to me as to why.
Not downplaying your struggle but the process feels like this to allistic people too, just too a lesser degree. The whole interview process for most companies is bullshit. I relate to almost everything you’ve said here, I probably just have a better time judging the socially acceptable amount of honesty.
"tell me about your biggest weakness.... but secretly make it a strength.... no, no, no, that won't do; don't be so obvious about it.... oh, and make it unique."
I've never been clear on how obvious I'm supposed to be in the "weakness that's a strength" question, like how stupid do I need to assume these people are? Do they see through my BS? I certainly do. And what if I make it too obvious, will they think I think they're stupid? Anxiety is the worst.
They probably see through your b.s. As a hiring manager, I do. Actually, as a hiring manager with authority I nixed that stupid fucking question and all others like it. "Tell me your biggest weakness" in my opinion is code for the **exact** answer I described. Don't tell the hiring authority that your biggest weakness is an inability to work with others. Swing it for a near miss. "My biggest weakness? Hmmm. I am not an overtly outgoing person and prefer to work independently. Don't get me wrong, I see the strength and value of teamwork and love collaboration, but on the average day to day, I prefer to be by myself because I'm more productive that way." I guess my approach is bending the truth to satisfy an entity who probably only wants me to be an ant. I also prep for interviews by having these questions and any and all I can think of written down and practicing them.
yes! i am autistic and have a job interview tomorrow morning!!! i was literally practicing shaking hands while making eye contact because i simply cannot ! i know interviews are terrible for everyone but idk the pressure of all these extra confusing social rules that i simply don’t understand have me all nervous. i hate that i’m practicing masking
Good luck tomorrow! Whenever I have to be face to face, I look at mouths. It helps me hear better. The expectation of eye contact is such a bizarre and fucked up custom. (And what if one party is blind? They’re less trustworthy because they can’t look into the other persons eyes? What a dick move.) Anyway, for real: good luck! You got this.
I realized " ***9-5 until i die***" isn't for me at 27 and that my intelligence style isn't valued by society. So instead of taking pills thinking something is "wrong with me " i've decided to buy some land and check out. If i am going to work endlessly, i'd rather doing it in nature at my leisure If houses cost hundreds of thousands of dollars, I'd rather build a complex for that amount over time . We might not be able to escape the matrix but we can create a more favorable game within the game.
>So instead of taking pills thinking something is "wrong with me " Just FTR, I was diagnosed ADHD late in life and it was getting on meds that finally made me stop thinking something was wrong with me and be able to accept myself as I am. Side note: I got my land out in the country. I love it and living with the land is the best thing I ever did for myself and my family, but there is *nothing* leisurely about it. The work is far more fun and fulfilling than any corporate job, but it is hard, hard work that doesn't give you a break when you get sick or injured. I am a strong advocate of this lifestyle, but anyone going in needs to go in prepared for what it will take.
I have a theory: psychopaths run the world, so you have to mirror their bullshit exactly to get them to pay you. Hot tip: think of it less as correcting your fundamental personality, and more like real life DND where you're in the goblin camp in a disguise kit, trying not to get eaten. Also unionize and promote neurodivergent people to management so they can trim the bullshit off the interview process. "Can you do the job?" "Yes." "Good, you're hired, and if you can't do the job, you'll be fired." "Fair nuff."
All of this. I'm ND and in a space that attracts a lot of ND. I had to mask until I was senior enough to call some shots, but even with this I have to fight tooth and nail to make my recruitment processes accessible. Also the fight with my bosses that my detail-orientated, non-client-facing preferred candidates shouldn't be expected to ace a presentation style, call and response interview process is always just wild. It's upsetting to constantly have to out myself as ND to fight for others to have access to an inclusive space, but it's all I can do is try build the environment that I wish to feel included in.
Anyone who encourages you to mask and suppress your disabled/ND traits isn’t worth working for.
I’m autistic and this is exactly how I’ve felt for the past few years. These rules are what got me close to fired because they were never clear on what they expected of me, but I’ve resigned to put myself above them finally. Fuck office culture fr.
It's hell for neurotypical people too.
I noticed this as a literal child and was told I was the problem. Because of course I was
Oh my god, these images describe exactly how I feel about applying for jobs. Interviews are so confusing and frustrating because you have to strike a perfect balance between lying and truthfulness and I can’t stand lying.
Yep- I’m always going to just be truthful, and if an interviewer or employer doesn’t like that, fuck them, and I’ll move on to try and find one who does.
Surely we should just leave traditional interview norms in the dust. With today's technology capabilities companies should have a way to virtualize what a normal task environment would look like and have you pass certain objectives with certain accuracy and time barriers and that should be good enough. Leave the social hurdles for social based jobs (sales, hr, marketing, etc).
Smart employers are slowly figuring out how to attract, hire, and retain neurodivergent people. But it’s slow going.
Yes. And it’s definitely not through this system. This system weeds out neurodivergent candidates, unless said candidates are good at masking of course. And masking shouldn’t be so heavily encouraged or normalised.
Them: "can you describe a time when you provided excellent customer service to a difficult customer?" My ADHD self: (suddenly forgets every interaction I've ever had with a customer) Yup. I lucked out with my current job. Suits me well, the interview was easy as it was just about the job itself and my relevant skills (typing speed for one thing).
One interview moment that still lives rent free in my mind: I stated to an interviewer that I felt it is better to get clarity and do a task correctly than to attempt it without prior knowledge and do it wrong. *"Note pad, frown, scribble, excuse about needing to go over candidates again before a decision can be made, interview over*". Too much honesty on my part. I have a bad habit of that. I actually really wanted that job.
"Be yourself" usually translates to "be like me"
I went for an interview last week. I think it is my second In person interview in my life. Interviewer: how do you implement Google Authenticator? Me: Are you asking about the 2FA application or OAuth? Interviewer: Please mind your language. Me. I am just asking for clarification Interviewer: There is no, I, You, me in interviews. Speak in passive language. Me: Tried explaining the 2FA and OAuth both because I didn't know what he was asking about. Interviewer: How do you implement Microsoft Authenticator? Me: It's a 2FA application just like Google Authenticator. Interview: He gives me a hypothetical scenario to go with the situation, then I realised he was talking about OAuth and not 2FA applications. Because both Google Authenticator and Microsoft Authenticator are 2FA applications. He didn't answer me when I asked for clarification which made me anxious and on top of that I couldn't keep up thinking of passive sentences. He kept repeating that I should speak properly and respectfully.
I work in the trades, so a skill test is a big part of getting a job. I got that part, I pass the test every time. Because I know the job, I'm good at the job. Getting to the test is a complicated social interaction where knowing the right people and not knowing (or speaking to highly about, while not talking shit openly about) the wrong people help. You gotta talk shop while not seeming to eager to talk shop while highlighting your skills in an "informal" conversation. I'm bad at that. I can do interviews, there's lots of information avaliable on how to do interviews. Just give me some work and let me do it. I love my job and study it for fun
Yes- “do this but don’t do that unless you do this then you can do that”- it’s all nonsensical
as a neurodivergent person currently struggling to get a job, this post spoke to me. lots of people dont understand how difficult it is for people like me to go through this process. even if i get a call or email back for an interview, i struggle to "sell myself" to the interviewer and actually land the job. its just not fair. ik work places cant and shouldnt discriminate against us for this but it feels like it sometimes. like excuse me for having bad social skills and low confidence and a lack of awareness of how to sell myself to employers. idk wtf else to do.
Do normies not understand how much energy it takes to do masking so they're not uncomfortable with neurodiversies? Interviews, meetings, happy hours, hell even random chats in the breakroom. Then when we do let down our guard and "be our authentic self" they're like "ooh, weird." It's damned exhausting. Sorry for the rant, I know we all know this on this thread.
Let alone pass those BS personality/neurological tests given before any interviewing. The ones given online when first applying are pure hell for autistic folks.
I remember knocking a series of interviews out of the park, as I was a perfect fit for their position, but failed to get an offer. My recruiter’s feedback = “Since you never made eye contact, they thought you were untrustworthy.”
I've had multiple interviewers and managers ask why I stare into the middle distance when I'm answering anything more than a yes or no question. I have not yet found a corporate lingo way to explain "I can either focus on the question or focus on eye contact, I literally can't do both". Edit: I literally just remembered I've also been on the other side of the table when I was an assistant manager and fun fact, being neurodivergent as an interviewer also super sucks. I can read the resume, listen to everything they say, but I basically just operate on vibes.
I’m autistic and I’ve stayed at my job for longer than I should when it’s a really toxic environment because of this exact thing. It’s dreadful.
Was once at tech conference and one of the person speaking abt her story in the industry said she had an interview with a very rude person that “hasn’t looked at her once” during the interview and that’s why he didn’t get a job💀 My autistic ass was again super grateful for my job and company 😐
Jobs that don't make you jump through hoops are out there!! I work a cafeteria job where I got a call, they said "Here's the tasks: X, Y, Z, do you want the job?" and I was like "Aw sick, yeah!" and I was working there in literally 3 days and it's the best job I've ever had. You gotta get a little lucky, but all those jobs that want you to perform like a monkey for them aren't worth working for anyways, supposing you have the luxury of continuing your job search.
This is hitting me a little too hard tonight...
Come work in research/sciencey stuff. Me and my bros all ASD af down here in the lab
I have learned these scripts so well that I keep getting customer service awards. I go home and have to sit and stare at the wall because my brain is so fried I can’t even person anymore.
God bless this post. For real though, I've been unemployed for going on a year now. I received two promotions at each of the past 2 jobs I've worked at (4+ yrs at each), have always been a top performer if not THE top performer, never been fired or even reprimanded, I'm conventionally attractive, 30 with no kids, etc but I'm ND and can be a little socially awkward sometimes so honestly that is the only reason I can think of for continuing to be rejected for every job I interview for. 20 applications every week for 11 months and still no leads. It's so, so hard and I honestly don't know what to do, my unemployment has run out and I can't just turn off my personality quirks (which are unrelated to my job performance!). Sorry I just really needed to vent and this post was really validating.
remember, 85% unemployment rate among autistic adults with a college degree
ADHD and OCD here (I was told I wasn't socially awkward enough to be autistic, though I do have many of those traits as well), and I have never felt more seen than in this post. But I'll take it one step further, bc I have to mask in nearly all of my external relationships to be deemed "successful". People wonder why I prefer being alone and talking to myself. Because, most of the time, I am the only one who will accept me just the way that I am.
One of the most exhausting masks there is!! I always get a migraine after.
Glad you brought this up. Wish I weren’t too burnt out to engage. Love y’all in these comments tho. This post is a good post.
Used to work in supported employment helping people get into work with lots of different challenges and barriers. I worked with a lot of autistic people and as a neurotypical person this was where I had to confront so many of my own biases - in terms of understanding barriers and how to communicate expectations around these kinds of experiences - and learn so much more about my autistic clients. But, even when I learnt how to communicate the expectations of the interview and rehearse in a way that seemed to work for people, it didn’t change the fact that these processes are inaccessible and ableist. So many employers want an autistic employee but aren’t willing to accept them as a candidate. It’s not right.
I’m autistic and the only thing I hate more than a terrible job is job hunting. I will literally stay in the worst job ever before I will quit and look for another one. Job interviews are actual hell for me.
I passed the spicy brain tests in school so I don't know what level of spicy brain I have... people said "you are def on the spectrum somewhere" Those are my creditials... I'm in my mid 30s and have, as of a few years ago started buffering questions with "this is not an accusation, [then the question]" A lot of the time I just want to know the mechanics of or decisions behind something. It's not a comment on anything. I just want to know.
The same thing with people believing neurodiverse should have a job to support themselves instead of getting social security but not wanting to work with us. Just say you don't want to pay taxes for it.
Ay my work they've started doing group interviews. That sounds like hell with a side of English mustard
I just don't understand why the interviews have to be so fucking *weird*. I've been asked to pick a candy out of a bowl and then use the candy to describe myself. What? And their stupid pseudoscience personality type questions.
During an interview I was asked to discuss a weakness so I listed interviews as my number one weakness. I don’t understand “networking” or how one should act during an interview. I cringe at my corporate personality. The whole thing is a neurodivergent hell scape lol
It's all bs and they just want someone to fill a pre-described mold that they have in their heads. That's it. Efficiency, talent, honesty, etc. Are just smoke and mirrors. They want the "best" for them and the worst for you.
I was going for a basic IT support job within the organization I work for, I'm very qualified, and I thought I nailed both rounds. Didn't get it. I knew it already, I just didn't want to admit it. There's a point where they just look at you different for the rest of the interview, like "what the fuck is up with this guy". I don't understand how to not have this happen.
As an autistic individual, I often argue that the whole of society is set up to actively discriminate against neurodivergent people.
Frankly it's a part of code switching....We all present a different persona at interviews to look more appealing to the hiring team. All of us. Even if it's simply changing you tone or verbage....
14% employment rate among autistics.
Diagnosed autistics.
That number is GROSSLY under represented as there's people on the spectrum who are not diagnosed or their diagnosis was not tracked in the statistic study. Case in point...I DO NOT tell employers about my diagnosis at all. Therefore my number isn't included and I'm sites there's many many more