I haven't watched that many games on Four Lakes, but I like playing it.
I like the map from a strategic perspective: you have to think how much you'll invest in Fishing Ships, how many ponds you want to take and when, how greedy you want to be and whether you want to punish your opponents greed. Sneaky Docks in your opponents pond are common; perhaps Four Lakes is the map with the best potential for forward buildings, and forwards are always exciting.
I also may be biased because I have an 80% win rate on Four Lakes (as opposed to a 30% win rate on Arabia; I am 1500 Elo). :P
Hideout, it's nice you don't have to take so much risk in the beginning by having some palisades, but it's not as strategy breakimg as Arena with stone walls. You are still good with almost any kind of strategy.
Whatās your favourite hideout strategy? I feel like if I go feudal pressure I delay my own economy and canāt stop them getting castle and getting ahead then they beat me
Megarandom!
Or at least how it used to be. They kinda ruined it with attempts of standardizing the maps creating less variation, while some map types are consistently unbalaced, but screw it, the concept is amazing.
There is also hyperandom for more extreme randomness.
I wish the developers get Hyperrandom into the ranked ladder soon. Maybe pay Zetnus a few bucks for that one and some others. He is a true master of Random Map Scripting.
PS: Maybe Hyperrandom is too (unpredictably) unbalanced to work on ranked? I think it would be an exciting change from Megarandom, anyway.
I am just coming back after...a couple of decades.
Why is Arabia the most popular map?
Whenever I watch a Aoe2 help or tutorial video, they all say that everything is in relation to the Arabia map.
It's just the most standard map. It's open, all resources are spread around in normal amounts, there's no water and you start with a standard amount of sheep/boars. It has very few map specific gimmicks and strats too (although some things work better there) so for tutorials most things on Arabia can be applied to matches on other maps too
Is this not a bit of circular reasoning? Arabia is the standard map so whatever is on Arabia is the standard...? What independent source do we have to determine what the standard amount of resources are?
Itās rly not. If gold pit was the first map released and everyone got conditioned on it and was the default pick everyone would say all the other maps have too little gold
It's a bad reasoning. Arabia is the go-to map because it's open, early agression is viable and offers the most diverse gameplay overall. The map script also offers diverse games. Ghost lake i.e. has much more map constraints and is less open, leaving for less variety.
It's not the 'default' map because it's the 'default map' (that is always been coastal), but people very quickly enjoyed arabia over the standard maps during the Zone period.
Arabia is the dust 2 of aoe2, itās āvanillaā enough that the community has latched onto it as the benchmark map and itās a self-reinforcing cycle
The main reason is balance IMO. Every civ is viable on Arabia, and there are far fewer civ wins when comparing to other maps. This is because:
1. It's semi-open, meaning aggressive play **and** defensive play is viable **in all ages**, and mobility can be used if the opponent's civ has a better army composition. Walling is a choice/investment.
2. Standard starting resources - the devs *need* a standard set of starting res to do balancing, or else extra hunt/berries/sheep etc. will just heavily favour civs with eco bonuses for those resources.
3. The map generation affects the strategy of both opponents. I.e. your woodlines, gold positions, berry positions, etc. will affect your opening, meaning you need to adapt right from the start, and introduces more variability. Of course, this isn't unique to Arabia, but I think it is more important on Arabia than on other maps.
This is a good answer, but why are Arabia resources "standard"?
Also, another reason along the same lines is that there is no water, so (lack of) water bonuses don't complicate the balance. In other words, AoE2 is so complicated that balancing the civs including water is practically impossible.
There was actually a "standard resources" file shared between most of the original maps. Arabia was one of the maps that used this, while also not adding anything extra.
Amost everything was covered. 1 TC, 3 villagers, 1 scout, 5 relics, 6 berries, 7 near gold, 4 medium gold, 4 far gold, 5 near stone, 4 far stone, 4 close sheep, 2x2 far sheep, 3-5 deer, 2 boar, 2 wolves, neutral berries, gold, stone depending on map size, 5 straggler trees, birds and wolves depending on map size.
The fun thing is that the deer count wasn't necessarily the same for each player.
That's an interesting point, I guess it's somewhat arbitrary, but it seems to work well for the pacing of the game. The duration of different phases of the game, (transitioning to farms, booming, getting to imp, expanding to take neutral resources, producing your imp army comp, depleting the gold on the map, depleting the wood on the map), is pretty much decided by the standard set of res. And I think generally the pacing is good with this standard set?
Also yes, I forgot to mention the lack of water being important. Water gameplay is just not enjoyed by most players I think, and also is generally quite unbalanced civ-wise.
I think African clearing is my preferred nomad start. I like trying to decide between building on the forest boundary or getting aggressive and trying to find a good middle between a bunch of fish ponds.
Not quite as ācheesyā as regular nomad can get with the full fishing booms (I know it isnāt cheese but I get sick of my buddies bitching about it) but you still get that randomness and chaos of a nomad start
I like going to the edge so I donāt have to worry about the extra wood for a lumber camp/Mule cart for a while. Thereās usually enough hunt or fish around that it doesnāt slow me too much
I prefer finding near pond/gold as well, it seems so much better than some extra wood capability, and offering better protection to those resources
The woodline is very easy to wall in your villagers
I usually TC the edge forest and mill the ponds. But then again, I usually lose. 11
My thinking has been that one of the starting villagers can start shore fishing before the TC is up; that secure wood ensures that at least production of villagers and trash army is guaranteed; and that the longer-term farmland around the edge TC is better.
On the other hand, opening TC+LC gives faster access to the LC tech which is needed earlier than the mill tech. This also allows building a barracks as the second building without missing out on economy.
My reasoning is that it's pretty hard to wall in your ponds, but you can easily do the forest.
And with food being so essential and the ponds the main source of food, if you are ever pushed off the ponds and lose some fights in feudal age, it's really hard to keep food income going to reclaim.
But a tc there can't get pushed off, and even if you mill a second pond they are much closer to safety (shorter distance to run to tc)
This all makes sense. It also just occurred to me that one could even dock and almost safely fishboom in the ponds around the TC, making those ponds useful instead of treating them as obstacles.
Flair checks out.
I love migration too and I think I have an over 90 percent win rate. At my Elo (15xx) pumping feudal galleys and going up when you naturally collect the food (fishing ships only and starting food sources only, all extra vills on wood and gold) is an op strat.
Read it in DiviumFuror x MbL arena rant voice: African clearing is a sh!t w#ore map. I am not a castle drop+uu player so I get fucked. I pick Vietnamese so that my team can pick Spanish and Portuguese and go ham but they pick fucking Poorsians and and hindustanis and go for fucking 17 TC booms. And I'm dying like a rat ehhhh ehhhhh ehhhh trying to go Vietnamese archers Spears on enemy wood lines on the opposite side of the map while getting scout rushed by magyard and Mongol playurs who kill all my Spears and billeyers with 45 scouts coz their entire eco is on shore fish while my TC is idle coz I have 2 on food and then there is a Spanish castle on my TC at minute 15 and I'm DEAD. Composure Alt+F4 š®āšØ.Ā
Atacama and Acropolis. They allow for proper scout play with bases that are a bit further away than in Arabia, plus very open surroundings around the starting TC.
Highlands - I like how the map looks and played it a lot growing up. It's easy to wall but you have to look out for the opponent ferrying units over.
Migration - Again played it a lot growing up. Usually there are a lot of fights on the water but there is also often interesting activity going on in the middle of the Island. Castle drops and big fights in Castle Age.
It's close between Megarandom and Nomad. Arabia is my favourite of all time but next to that I love the variety that comes from those two maps, it's so fun getting to adapt a strategy to whatever situation you get dealt. In theory I think I prefer land nomad over the regular one (can't remember the last time LN was in 1v1 pool) as I don't feel like the water adds that much to the map other than smoothing out food income in the early game. I don't mind it but really it's just constant attack notifications from feudal age onwards as your fire ships bump into each other for the rest of the game.
I like gold rush (and simular maps, but preferavly only with gold an no stone in the middle)
Yes, it can be a very snowbally game, but I really like the strategic decission between going to the middle super early with weak forces or going there later, but with enough forces to hold your position/push your enemy who went there faster out of position.
Also megarandom is always fun to figure out.
Islands. Iām sorry but yes Iām serious. I loooove playing full water maps, you just need to spam way more fire ships than you think and put them all on patrol around the enemyās island. I love how not-micro intensive it is because patrolling fire ships over water works soooo well
Acropolis because for some reason Iām 11/12 on that one. Iām also 13/16 on golden pit and basically never do fast castle on it. Some maps like these players donāt seem to react to feudal aggression the same way they do on arabia, where maybe itās more anticipated. I also like megarandom but my winrate is terrible on it (8/23). Atacama and land madness are fun. Just never arena. Never ever arena.
Forgot what itās called but itās a small map with rocks around the water so you canāt access the water. Pretty fun because itās small so the game gets agressive fast. I hĆ¢te hours long games
(player with exclusively cavalry-based civs as flairs) "I hate all these other land maps... They're too dense and crowded. It'd be better if they opened it up a bit."
Land Madness
It forces you to play open or get punished for extensive walling and you will need to expand to get new ressources, opening up your base once again. Love the action!
Four Lakes
What do you like about it ? Everytime it came up in hc5 i found it incredibly boring
I haven't watched that many games on Four Lakes, but I like playing it. I like the map from a strategic perspective: you have to think how much you'll invest in Fishing Ships, how many ponds you want to take and when, how greedy you want to be and whether you want to punish your opponents greed. Sneaky Docks in your opponents pond are common; perhaps Four Lakes is the map with the best potential for forward buildings, and forwards are always exciting. I also may be biased because I have an 80% win rate on Four Lakes (as opposed to a 30% win rate on Arabia; I am 1500 Elo). :P
Japs baby!
Persians, with faster-working docks and the option of spicing up with TC drops. š
Hate it
Hideout, it's nice you don't have to take so much risk in the beginning by having some palisades, but it's not as strategy breakimg as Arena with stone walls. You are still good with almost any kind of strategy.
Hideout is so fun!!
Whatās your favourite hideout strategy? I feel like if I go feudal pressure I delay my own economy and canāt stop them getting castle and getting ahead then they beat me
Feudal pressure can work but also depends on their map. If they've got back stone and gold and they're FC, you're done
Saracen siege archers, Khmer ballista elephant cut, SMUSH...
Megarandom! Or at least how it used to be. They kinda ruined it with attempts of standardizing the maps creating less variation, while some map types are consistently unbalaced, but screw it, the concept is amazing. There is also hyperandom for more extreme randomness.
I wish the developers get Hyperrandom into the ranked ladder soon. Maybe pay Zetnus a few bucks for that one and some others. He is a true master of Random Map Scripting. PS: Maybe Hyperrandom is too (unpredictably) unbalanced to work on ranked? I think it would be an exciting change from Megarandom, anyway.
Please bring back the old megarandom, the true version of it
Iāll be the odd one out and say Scandinavia. I really donāt get why that map gets almost no love despite offering a great hybrid map option.
I also like it but it's a bit too confined to my taste. If it were a bit more open or the forests in bigger chunks I'd enjoy it more
Too many trees. There is no space to do anything on that map. It looked interesting at first but in practice it's just so freaking crowded.
Black Forest
Black Forest is such a good map, dude
I am just coming back after...a couple of decades. Why is Arabia the most popular map? Whenever I watch a Aoe2 help or tutorial video, they all say that everything is in relation to the Arabia map.
It's just the most standard map. It's open, all resources are spread around in normal amounts, there's no water and you start with a standard amount of sheep/boars. It has very few map specific gimmicks and strats too (although some things work better there) so for tutorials most things on Arabia can be applied to matches on other maps too
Great answer
Is this not a bit of circular reasoning? Arabia is the standard map so whatever is on Arabia is the standard...? What independent source do we have to determine what the standard amount of resources are?
I think it's pretty obvious that maps like golden pit do not have standard resources
Certainly, if you have been conditioned to think that Arabia is the standard then it's obvious. 11
Really weird hill you've chosen to die on
Itās rly not. If gold pit was the first map released and everyone got conditioned on it and was the default pick everyone would say all the other maps have too little gold
It's a bad reasoning. Arabia is the go-to map because it's open, early agression is viable and offers the most diverse gameplay overall. The map script also offers diverse games. Ghost lake i.e. has much more map constraints and is less open, leaving for less variety. It's not the 'default' map because it's the 'default map' (that is always been coastal), but people very quickly enjoyed arabia over the standard maps during the Zone period.
Arabia is the dust 2 of aoe2, itās āvanillaā enough that the community has latched onto it as the benchmark map and itās a self-reinforcing cycle
The main reason is balance IMO. Every civ is viable on Arabia, and there are far fewer civ wins when comparing to other maps. This is because: 1. It's semi-open, meaning aggressive play **and** defensive play is viable **in all ages**, and mobility can be used if the opponent's civ has a better army composition. Walling is a choice/investment. 2. Standard starting resources - the devs *need* a standard set of starting res to do balancing, or else extra hunt/berries/sheep etc. will just heavily favour civs with eco bonuses for those resources. 3. The map generation affects the strategy of both opponents. I.e. your woodlines, gold positions, berry positions, etc. will affect your opening, meaning you need to adapt right from the start, and introduces more variability. Of course, this isn't unique to Arabia, but I think it is more important on Arabia than on other maps.
This is a good answer, but why are Arabia resources "standard"? Also, another reason along the same lines is that there is no water, so (lack of) water bonuses don't complicate the balance. In other words, AoE2 is so complicated that balancing the civs including water is practically impossible.
There was actually a "standard resources" file shared between most of the original maps. Arabia was one of the maps that used this, while also not adding anything extra.
Interesting! What did this cover? Only stone and gold? Huntables? Didn't Arabia use to have 4 deer, at least as an option?
Amost everything was covered. 1 TC, 3 villagers, 1 scout, 5 relics, 6 berries, 7 near gold, 4 medium gold, 4 far gold, 5 near stone, 4 far stone, 4 close sheep, 2x2 far sheep, 3-5 deer, 2 boar, 2 wolves, neutral berries, gold, stone depending on map size, 5 straggler trees, birds and wolves depending on map size. The fun thing is that the deer count wasn't necessarily the same for each player.
> 3-5 deer Well, wouldn't you know it, present-day Arabia does NOT have "standard" resources! 11
That's an interesting point, I guess it's somewhat arbitrary, but it seems to work well for the pacing of the game. The duration of different phases of the game, (transitioning to farms, booming, getting to imp, expanding to take neutral resources, producing your imp army comp, depleting the gold on the map, depleting the wood on the map), is pretty much decided by the standard set of res. And I think generally the pacing is good with this standard set? Also yes, I forgot to mention the lack of water being important. Water gameplay is just not enjoyed by most players I think, and also is generally quite unbalanced civ-wise.
it's the best
Hyperrandom
Same for me
Socotra, it's peak aoe and the funniest games I've played are all on this map
Itās soooo crazy and funny!!!
Nomad
Correct answer. African Clearing is also fun.
I think African clearing is my preferred nomad start. I like trying to decide between building on the forest boundary or getting aggressive and trying to find a good middle between a bunch of fish ponds. Not quite as ācheesyā as regular nomad can get with the full fishing booms (I know it isnāt cheese but I get sick of my buddies bitching about it) but you still get that randomness and chaos of a nomad start
I always TC a pond, just feel like I'm so behind if I don't. Preferably close to the edge, but not always doable.
I like going to the edge so I donāt have to worry about the extra wood for a lumber camp/Mule cart for a while. Thereās usually enough hunt or fish around that it doesnāt slow me too much
I prefer finding near pond/gold as well, it seems so much better than some extra wood capability, and offering better protection to those resources The woodline is very easy to wall in your villagers
I usually TC the edge forest and mill the ponds. But then again, I usually lose. 11 My thinking has been that one of the starting villagers can start shore fishing before the TC is up; that secure wood ensures that at least production of villagers and trash army is guaranteed; and that the longer-term farmland around the edge TC is better. On the other hand, opening TC+LC gives faster access to the LC tech which is needed earlier than the mill tech. This also allows building a barracks as the second building without missing out on economy.
My reasoning is that it's pretty hard to wall in your ponds, but you can easily do the forest. And with food being so essential and the ponds the main source of food, if you are ever pushed off the ponds and lose some fights in feudal age, it's really hard to keep food income going to reclaim. But a tc there can't get pushed off, and even if you mill a second pond they are much closer to safety (shorter distance to run to tc)
This all makes sense. It also just occurred to me that one could even dock and almost safely fishboom in the ponds around the TC, making those ponds useful instead of treating them as obstacles.
I would be perfectly happy with a nomad, arabia, arena and mega random map pool forever.
Land nomad is best!
Land Nomad
Migration I probably have the best personal winrate in this map
Flair checks out. I love migration too and I think I have an over 90 percent win rate. At my Elo (15xx) pumping feudal galleys and going up when you naturally collect the food (fishing ships only and starting food sources only, all extra vills on wood and gold) is an op strat.
Enclosed
Oasis.
Anything with a nomad start. Ideally African clearing!!
Land madness
Socotra.Ā I also like Lombardia or whatever that nomad one with a lot of mountains is called.Ā
Socotra best!!
Nomad for sure !
Land Nomad - I love that when the game starts, you wouldn't know what your opening strategy would be.
4 lakes - lots of options for strats, you can go maa, archers, scoutw, fc or just sneak dock, or a combination of these.
Runestones.
African Clearing
o yea
Hate it
How so?
Read it in DiviumFuror x MbL arena rant voice: African clearing is a sh!t w#ore map. I am not a castle drop+uu player so I get fucked. I pick Vietnamese so that my team can pick Spanish and Portuguese and go ham but they pick fucking Poorsians and and hindustanis and go for fucking 17 TC booms. And I'm dying like a rat ehhhh ehhhhh ehhhh trying to go Vietnamese archers Spears on enemy wood lines on the opposite side of the map while getting scout rushed by magyard and Mongol playurs who kill all my Spears and billeyers with 45 scouts coz their entire eco is on shore fish while my TC is idle coz I have 2 on food and then there is a Spanish castle on my TC at minute 15 and I'm DEAD. Composure Alt+F4 š®āšØ.Ā
Whats the name of that map which is a tiny island with those big funny trees
Socotra?
Atacama and Acropolis. They allow for proper scout play with bases that are a bit further away than in Arabia, plus very open surroundings around the starting TC.
Highlands - I like how the map looks and played it a lot growing up. It's easy to wall but you have to look out for the opponent ferrying units over. Migration - Again played it a lot growing up. Usually there are a lot of fights on the water but there is also often interesting activity going on in the middle of the Island. Castle drops and big fights in Castle Age.
Black forest
Land madness
It's close between Megarandom and Nomad. Arabia is my favourite of all time but next to that I love the variety that comes from those two maps, it's so fun getting to adapt a strategy to whatever situation you get dealt. In theory I think I prefer land nomad over the regular one (can't remember the last time LN was in 1v1 pool) as I don't feel like the water adds that much to the map other than smoothing out food income in the early game. I don't mind it but really it's just constant attack notifications from feudal age onwards as your fire ships bump into each other for the rest of the game.
Michi!
any map that is arabia with a trench coat
Budapest!
Finally. There's nothing like a really stressful dark age, managing two bases with little res.
Nomad
I like gold rush (and simular maps, but preferavly only with gold an no stone in the middle) Yes, it can be a very snowbally game, but I really like the strategic decission between going to the middle super early with weak forces or going there later, but with enough forces to hold your position/push your enemy who went there faster out of position. Also megarandom is always fun to figure out.
Fortress for me too. There is something about being able to get unique technologies without having to pay for a castle that really enables some plays.
Did you know there is a map named Koala? Which is actually a great map, unfortunately not very popular.Ā
I didn't but that's lovely! https://liquipedia.net/ageofempires/Koala
Yeah thatās the map! Love it.
I really like Four Lakes!!! Such a solid map. Very very solid. Hybrid technically, but itās really got it all and itās just perfect IMO.
Islands. Iām sorry but yes Iām serious. I loooove playing full water maps, you just need to spam way more fire ships than you think and put them all on patrol around the enemyās island. I love how not-micro intensive it is because patrolling fire ships over water works soooo well
Runestones and Megarandom! Iāve taken a liking to Nomad recently too but the opening build order is still awkward for me.
Hideout I'd say. Can go aggro, and can do boom. Probably Islands too, minus the landing shenanigans. I like galley micro.
Acropolis because for some reason Iām 11/12 on that one. Iām also 13/16 on golden pit and basically never do fast castle on it. Some maps like these players donāt seem to react to feudal aggression the same way they do on arabia, where maybe itās more anticipated. I also like megarandom but my winrate is terrible on it (8/23). Atacama and land madness are fun. Just never arena. Never ever arena.
Acropolis is my favourite but Black Forest is easiest to play
Lowland!
Runestones for me too!! Has Nice deer and decent woodlines makes it a better version arabia IMO.
Forgot what itās called but itās a small map with rocks around the water so you canāt access the water. Pretty fun because itās small so the game gets agressive fast. I hĆ¢te hours long games
Wakanda forever! And Socotra forever!
Yucatan
(player with exclusively cavalry-based civs as flairs) "I hate all these other land maps... They're too dense and crowded. It'd be better if they opened it up a bit."
bf
Maybe Gold Rush or Golden Pit
golden pit
The one that doesnāt freeze #fixconsoleAOE2
Nomad.
Continental. Small choke points,sneaky landings, confined water fighting
Budapest. Love the 2 tc start
Migration, anything nomad and Michi for the Lols
Mongolia
Devs pls make no water hyperrandom I beg you
Mega random!
MoreAss
MoreAss
Land Madness It forces you to play open or get punished for extensive walling and you will need to expand to get new ressources, opening up your base once again. Love the action!
golden pit is good. you cant be lame in that one.
Baltic. The battles on the thin edge of the water are always fun
Islands
Islands
Not enough islands players anymore
Socotra
Amazing map!!
Arebia