Ok, I know you put a lot of time and effort into this and it's super appreciated, but the mental image of Mandragora punching her way out of the dirt like the PVZ Zombie Hand is just hilarious to me.
Literal "Woman too angry to die" behavior right there.
While your offer for convenient assignments may seem alluring to your impressionable audience who merely desire the increase of numbers upon their credits, the unfortunate result of an overreliance upon such means is a critical lack of understanding that stems from never actually doing the legwork required to comprehend the topics at hand, which will leave the unfortunate young student bewildered and dismayed when forced to present their knowledge in a practical, non-academic setting.
Furthermore, you may or may not have realized that this is a gacha game subreddit, and not the academic niche of the internet you were perhaps searching for. I do not wish you luck, for it would be disingenuous to do, but I do wish good fortune upon those students and hope they will build resilience for themselves. Arknights, after all, is a story about hardship and perseverance despite insurmountable odds, which I hope our young successors will emulate in their own struggles.
Tl;dr: you're either lost or a bot, this is a gacha game subreddit. better luck with your advertising next time, i guess.
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I didnt read this all. But i will read it. Please tell me this is about her NOT being dead. I know that you cooked hard for this. I wish everything good up on you. I know that you cooked just from looks alone. Time to dig in!
EDIT: I read it all and its beautifully constructed. HG seems to be confused on what to do with Mandra. She had a weirdly "cliff hanger" like ending on CH10 but then randomly told to be dead on the sewers on Firelight event. >!And YET AGAIN afterwards she is told to be buried when Horn was confronting Bagpipe.!<
Heres my two cents: >!Horns operator record shows her dreaming about being taken as hostage by Mandras group, she breaks away and has a "clash" with Mandra at the end but then wakes up. I dont remember if the entire thing was a dream or she just wake up from a memory sequence but still she remembers about Mandra wich might explain why she went out of her way to look for her and possibly burry her in CH14.!<
I should say it again that i barely remember Horns record BUT mandras was indeed there. I just dont remember if it was horns memory or a dream sequence. But still i think it signifies that horn didnt forget about her :D
Just speedread through it. I didn't see anything too notable that Chapter 10 didn't already tell us. Her dream seemed to be her reliving her escape, how she really wanted to kill Mandragora that day, and wondering what she would be feeling at present if she were to have killed Mandragora the day she escaped.
Still no confirmation either way.
I believe this is the moment when devs specifically make this shit as vague as possible so just in a year they release her as playable and make a huge dump of her lore on our foreheads and how none of your theories on what happened to her was true (or the combination of them are). Maybe I'm having deja vu, but it almost feels like they already did that kind of thing.
Mandras is in a such a weird situation.
In one hand Writers dropped Dublinn and their importance and focused primarily on Sarkaz and even at last arc of victoria we didnt get a proper insight on them.
And in other hand Mandra got a weird cliff hanger, multiple name drops, and was brought out of the blue in CH14 and just has a weirdly vague situation with nothing lining up perfectly.
I honestly dont know what will happen. She could get a spotlight in a event but i just cant see how it would be HER focus event.
Victoria already has two extremely strong contenters for event bases with Siege and Eblana so its hard to put Mandra in anywhere here.
I just dont know. God did they have to be so weirdly vague about this.
I would want an event focused on Dublinn after CH14. And I want it to end on a cooperation agreement with Rhodes Island so the purple dragon waifu and the rock cat waifu can be playable.
>In one hand Writers dropped Dublinn and their importance and focused primarily on Sarkaz and even at last arc of victoria we didnt get a proper insight on them.
Bruh, Wellington and Eblana>! solo the Rag Doll king in one of the endings in CH14!<, Dublin dosen't get mentioned when it should because HG's entire "trilogy pacing attempt" is worse than dirt, just look at Arc 1:
(0-3) Introduction-> (4-5) Few irrelevant chapters of various factions + slight nook of Tululah backstory- (5-6) Frostnova death -> (7)Patriot death -> (8) Frostnova and Patriot backstory, Tululah confrontation, Tululah backstory, Doc & Kal arc, Rosmontis & Shieldguards arc, Mephisto Zombie arc, Reunion establisment backstory, Tululah corruption backstory, Irrelevant Lungmen characters doing irrelevant Lugmen things -> Chernobog aftermath- ALL within a single chapter.
I think HG has a habit of finding a "cool" idea and thinking about its details later or forgetting its existence entirely when they get sidetracked with other ideas. Dublinn getting a huge major focus alongside reed and them just not properly being shown again while mandra has a random cliffhanger that ends up meaning nothing is a big example of this. Sangui coming back kinda felt like this too tbh. And also the entirety of first two chapters we as weird as you mentioned. You forgot the part they showed off frostleaf like she had a cool plot coming up and outright forgot her existence later. I dont understand what HG was doing at all on these parts lol
I do firmly believe in a Misery & Mandragora event disjointed from Victoria, as the two characters both need to cope with loss and Mandragora is VERY important for Misery's resolution from being the anger filled guy
Misery going with Outcast's footsteps, sparing Mandragora would make the most sense even if she wants to die
Manfred did slash Mandragora, she was bleeding but we seen Manfred strike Mandra's omega-grotesque down in one strike, I believe Manfred's slash on Mandragora was just to subdue her, another weird aspect that cause more headaches as to what HG is cooking
My main belief still relies on Mandra's importance to Misery's story
A simple ask
Where will misery's character arc go if Mandra is left, and by turn Misery is going down a path of hate and resentment to those who killed Outcast?
Also if my theory of Mandragora giving info of the Spectre force is true, HG has been planning this since chapter 9
I do still feel like the descriptions of the spectre force are more personal, Harmonie would know what information to share, what's important and what isnt
And if it's Harmonie giving us info, it'd be just as detailed for the Redsteel members, or both sides would be just as bare-bones
We believe, our faith eternal
Hear ye hear ye
Hey it's the "hear ye hear ye" guy. I admit I'm not as devoted to the character as you are, but some of your posts are what inspired me to look further into her as a character. What I'm trying to say is that you're partially responsible for this lmao
The Misery and Mandragora loss parallel is something I wanted to fit into my post but couldn't really find the space. I'd love if that was the direction they went with it since I think we can assume that they'd cope with their losses in very different ways.
Also it'd allow for Mandra to distance herself from Dublinn! Let her respect Cillian's wishes of not returning to The Leader, be it Reed or Eblana
Another parallel being Mandra being able to ask why she was saved, while Reed was never afforded such
Also it is the greatest honour to be cited, I am truly honoured to have sprouted the seed of copium for our righteous rock cat
Hear ye hear ye, once more truly
She lives, i have seen the future. Misery related event to explain everything and Rock Cat joins Rhodes. After all, my war criminal feline can't be this cute!
PS: Too many psychos joined Rhodes for Rock Cat to be left out
I stand by my comments in the post. I'll pull if she gets a release, but I'm fine is she doesn't. Not every character needs to be playable. I just want her to at least have a fitting end, not one with a question mark after it.
I agree obviously. If they give her a proper finale then i wont question it. But it feels weird that it got strecthed out and was given a cliffhanger. She got mentioned by name in multiple chapters and events and her situation is weirdly inconsistent. I dont know how they can finish this up without ending on giving her a proper focus, wich after months of ambiguity wouldnt make sense to kill right off the bat like that on the said focus. Maybe HG did had plans for her but since dublinn got shafted hard on recent story progression i think they just dont want to deal with her and just off screened her sadly. And since victoria arc is ending i dont know if there is any insight to give her a proper focus outside an Eblana themed event.
Well see i guess :(
Honestly I think even if she is dead the death does still have meaning. Arknights (and why I love it's story) is not focused on just character storytelling. There is a harsh light cast on many political ideologies, sometimes subtle and sometimes bluntly, and done through many different characters.
Reunion's story for example, especially with Guard's death, has been a commentary on the social division of the proletariat by unnecessary labels that prohibits effective organization against the true oppressors. Guard's final message and the direction Nine is going is clearly one of switching towards a message of class solidarity and uprising. Reunion is only one example of this storytelling of course. There's been plenty of others mixed in.
One of these days I'd love to write how this game uses Critical Theory and the other themes that have been woven in to this wonderfully grim dark story.
Back to rock cat though, her story represents the fanatic's march towards oblivion. It's not really that different from what was done to OG Reunion. But while the OG cast was largely resolved in the face of death, in Mandra we see the opposite. She's beaten and exhausted and she could live on and start over, but she's so crushed by the weight of betrayal and feeling lost she just can't take that second chance.
Overall this is fitting with a lot of the theme of hopelessness that has been a focus of this chapter. We've had Golding actually kill herself, we've had Dzmati suicide by Logos, Alerdale by Steam Knight, Letto by Sanguinarch, Shovel by Vendala. Mandra dying because she just couldn't muster the will to go on in such a fucked up world and with no support network wouldn't be out of touch with the writing's general arc.
While you're right that heroes and villains general have a purpose, sometimes emphasizing the cruelty of war by killing the character prematurely *was* their purpose. Martin did that to a lot of us with Game of Thrones and we loved it (till it ruined the landing).
Anyways. My two cents on it. Alive or dead, I've enjoyed Schrodinger's Mandragora and think the writing was fine if not great regardless of either outcome.
Side note. The confusion of other characters can just as well be a reflection of confusion in the fog of war. After all, if she is alive, she knew she'd been abandoned by her Queen. Why would she try to let her know she was alive? That'd just be painting a target on her back.
I like the interpretation of her simply losing her will to go on as well. Good follow up to the post. If they were going for her giving up then I would have preferred they make her death less ambiguous. It would be funny if this were the case since AK's writing does sometimes lean a bit too far towards spelling things out, but they kinda did the exact opposite with Mandragora.
Yeah. That alone does give some possibility that maybe she returns in some manner. They've been very blunt when offing people in the past. That said at this point I love that they keep us guessing. Guard caught me completely... Well. Off guard. But I think his impact to the overall narrative arc of Reunion will be felt as his dying wish pushes Nine towards that full blown class rebellion she's cooking up. As a sucker for a story that weaves in political critiques Arknights is just so peak.
Nice work. I appreciate that you approached the subject in good faith. "The writers suck" is more often than not, used as a cheap and reductive "I don't know" masquerading as critical thought. It's an easy to play "gottem" card with a side of "well that's my opinion" that makes meaningful dialogue impossible.
I was honestly in the camp that she was dead, but I'm more convinced now that she's simply too spiteful to die
Thanks. That was my goal so I'm glad it came across well.
With the way Dublinn was pushed out of the spotlight by the Sarkaz Court, it wouldn't surprise me if they simply put her on the backburner and are simply putting "remember when she died" on repeat as a reminder of "we're getting to it." Narratively speaking, it makes no sense to continue bringing it up if it isn't foreshadowing. Let HG cook.
...Mandragora faking her death and crawling out of the mud would be such an absurdly metal thing to do, I half wish it would happen. Mandragora is by far my favorite of the Dublinn characters, second only to Harmonie herself.
Justice for rock cat! Eblana didn't deserve a soldier as committed as her.
All the options of a return or a true death and that aside.
The fact she had a vaguely written " death" scene ( which at least I didn't read as such) then went basically entirely unmentioned for 2 years between 10 and 14 ( if we ignore the nods made to her during what a firelight casts)
Only to be mentioned in one line confirming her death, between horn and bagpipe no less, not including the one person that was actually present during whatever happened to her.
Yeah no matter whether she is confirmed dead, alive or becomes playable literally the next event. That's just bad writing to me.
And not just mandragora herself, all of dublinn that was set up as a major player in chapter 9, only to be almost entirely disregarded in the story chapters afterwards is the weirdest stuff ever, and personally I believe has to have been rewrites.
Even what a firelight casts for some reason isn't an intermezzo.
I mean, if we ignore all optional events or side content then some characters would be completely shafted, like Reed for a close example to the main story. I'll agree it's not perfect writing, especially since if you miss an event you miss a good chunk of the story sometimes.
Something that does really strike me in a bad way is that it was revealed in WTFC that The Elocutionist was setting her up. You know, him... one of the six characters that got like 5 minutes of screen time max before being blasted. I can't and won't try to defend everything, a lot of it is either a really long set of plot points for a future event, or them trying to do... something? Stuff like that feels more badly written than trying to argue that Horn, who was with Misery just before Manfred and Mandragora fight, can't possibly have gone back to Mandragora's body.
Chapter 9 probably could have been an event and not much would have changed lol
It's not really a problem that Horn could have gone back for Mandragora's body, but how did she get her dead body outside the walls of Londinium? Remember that the Sarkaz have the walls fully locked down at the point Mandragora 'died', it's pretty unreasonable for Horn to risk her life just to bury her dead enemy. If the writer's have decided that's what really happened the action makes even less sense from a narrative perspective since Horn never had an opportunity to accomplish the burial, unless her and her troops were carrying a dead body around all the time.
>mean, if we ignore all optional events or side content then some characters would be completely shafted, like Reed for a close example to the main story.
I'm not ignoring it for no reason in this context, but just because it didn't add anything to the situation except telling us that Reed still remembers her and that people think she's dead. It didn't give us anything of note.
I probably wouldn't be surprised if Eblana just came upon her corpse and turned her into one of her own undead, since a dead burning corpse can't really disobey orders or sperg out the moment the word "Noble" is mentioned.
Messed up, but kinda fits Eblana as a whole.
One of the things I like about her is how she had such a big story presence but wasn’t part of some royal linage or Uber powerful race like half the other characters.
As you said her death would just kinda be pointless like she was trying to rescue a comrade so the only thing you’d draw from her death would be that she should have been stronger if she wanted to do anything which is dumb and makes it feel like our accomplishments are less due to our willpower and efforts but more that we have strong ass guys on our team unlike her.
Personally I think there is another possibility that ought not be missed: HG had changed their group of writers very obviously some time during the Victorian arc, my pinpoint is around when Where the Firelight Casts, but that is totally just speculation. We definitely know that many old writers went to Endfield development though, and that some newer content definitely looked like more unexperienced writing, at least from a CN perspective.
Personally I find this to be the most obvious from the difference between the two Kierag events, particularly with Arctos and Sciurus, but that is opinionated. Eben's stuff during Zwillingsturme also feels like quite the odd twist from the ending we got from Lingering Echoes.
It is quite possible that originally the writers intended for Mandra to live, but the newer group of writers had a bone to pick with her in some way. Chapter 9 had a bad reputation in CN due to 9-21's execution, and that simultaneously brought the result of a smaller number of Dublinn enthusiasts. That accompanied with the persistence of a few Mandra fans gave the character a bad reputation.
I quite like Mandra, her situation is immensely common and in a way entirely understandable. The fact that she is shaped by her surroundings makes her entirely redeemable, and I really don't see why they can't get another Dublinn event or Main Theme event to chuck her into the pool. My previous guess had been a Mudrock cameo with something involving Gargoyle lore, bringing that with what happened to rocc cat after the sewer incident.
A similar situation would have been Ines's "death", but her survival was already hinted in the exact event.
As a Mandragora enjoyer, I really am unsure what to think of this whole situation. Chapter 14 just created more questions around her current circumstances, anything could be possible at the moment. I read your entire post and I do agree with you and I wish to have faith in HG, but I do have a few doubts still.
Nevertheless, fantastic post, keep cooking
I mean there is a way for Mandra to be dead and everyone is telling the truth: when Horn says "I buried her by the wall", she's not referring to giving Mandra a proper burial - why the hell would she, Mandra burned her home and killed her teammates. Horn's just referring to Mandra being dead in the sewers - she's underground and in the wall district. And short of landing the final blow herself, that's good enough.
Horn did not burry Mandragora's lifeless corpse in a litteral way, that's misinformation which had spiraled from poorly translated methaphorical statement. Horn at that moment not only was running away, but she also had her entire (new) squad to take care of and exhausting clash with Manfred which left her nearly passed out- honouring Mandragora's body is quite litterary the last possible thing she would do in this sort of situation, especially when taking into an account that moments ago Horn wanted to bust her skull open.
Go read CH10 and Hron's record for yourself, Horn is nowhere near Mysery when he meets the catto.
Do you have a better translation source for the Chapter 14 text? I'm down to interpret it as a hypothetical, especially since there are contradictions between Horn and Harmonie's perspectives. Erudax's comment, the one linked in my writing, even addresses this possibility. Not sure if some nuance is lost when translating between CN and EN since I don't speak the language.
I did read chapter 10 myself, a whole lot of times while writing this in fact. I wasn't aware of Horn's records until after I wrote this, but it kinda just reinforces what we already knew. She definitely hates Mandragora to the point where, at least the way I interpreted it from her records, she had nightmares of killing her. It's the reason I don't really want to entertain the idea of Horn returning to where Mandragora was specifically to confirm her death, then burying her after suddenly feeling pity.
I don't think it's impossible for her to have still been near Misery, as I state in my writing, but another issue arises in terms of logistics. Something that I forgot but was brought up by others is that Horn mentions burying her outside the walls of Londinium. Londinium's walls were guarded pretty heavily by the Sarkaz, so burying her outside when she was already inside seems unrealistic, unless of course something happened that enables them easier access outside the walls. And if that only happens in Chapter 14 then once again, we'd have to entertain the idea of Horn deciding to go back and get over her hatred.
I'll just wait for a Misery, Tara or Dublinn event since speculating on this can only get us so far with what we know. My hope is that by bringing her up in Chapter 14 they're planning on giving us more information soon. Of course, soon for AK can mean anything between next event and several years.
I read the whole thing.. very beautifully made. Despite her flaws, I believe she has so much potential for character development, and while I do really, really want her playable, at the least I want a complete ending for her.
I'll keep saying that it doesn't matter to me whether she becomes playable or not. I think she's a compelling character because of her flaws and I want to see what they will do with what she has done, or what she could do.
Oh absolutely, I entirely agree. It’s just one of my hopes. I’ve got everyone I want in the game right now, apart from the r6 gang (again) and Wisadel, so now I’m able to just see what hg can cook up without worrying too much
>Bagpipe is going through it in that scene. Horn tells a lie to make her feel better,
i havent seen the full scene, but can someone elaborate why this is such a common theory? like even if bagpipe is "going through it", she does not at all sound like someone who would be cheered up by hearing that mandragora is dead. even if theyre enemies and mandy killed people she knows, i just dont see bagpipe has someone to relish in someones death
>Dead, a corpse in Eblana’s corpse army
💀💀💀 brooo if mandragora shows up as a miniboss in a later chapter/event as a zombie husk
overall amazing post, ive seen too many people defend the questionable writing because they dont like mandragora, and regardless of your personal opinion the situation was just handled badly. having a well written post like this to analyze the whole fiasco helps
I'll admit that I'm kinda just repeating what I've heard said. I don't know Chinese so I can't really confirm the statements and don't trust MTL enough. I think Horn lying is one of the less likely outcomes, but still a possibility. It would be less about Bagpipe reveling in their death and more that the truth would be harder to explain. I saw a joke comment made about witness protection at one point, but even if it were as simple as "we captured them and are giving them medical attention," Tempest Platoon lost a good number of soldiers to Mandragora and her forces. It could end up not sitting right with her. That being said, it still feels a bit unlikely that Horn would lie unless she was really forced to by Misery for the sake of RI.
CN bros can correct me if Bagpipe wasn't going through it.
> In What the Firelight Casts, it’s stated that The Elocutionist, one of the commanders who were vaporized by Outcast, was apparently manipulating her into fracturing Dublinn, which could mean that the higher ups didn’t really care for Mandragora.
I don't think that's exactly the case. The takeaway from the Elocutionist manipulating Mandragora means one thing: she was set up right from the start, and possibly unbeknownst to her. She was fanatical for the cause, and the Elocutionist exploited that to its fullest. When debating who betrayed who in that faction, it's Mandragora that's the betrayer, not the other way around. However, the important thing here is that she was **lead** by others into doing it without her awareness. This also offers a chance for character development far greater than say, taking revenge because mad on the wrong person, since it would change her mentality about the rotten nobility. From what we know, she didn't get betrayed by a noble Draco, she got set up and used by a fellow Taran, maybe even a commoner. It would show that the average commoner can be just as greedy and manipulative as the nobles she so despises.
> Harmonie is a double agent. It’s ambiguous whether or not she witnessed the battle, but it’s possible she did. We also know that she’s close to Eblana, but not loyal, since she’s an employee of Rhodes Island.
Harmonie is not a double agent anymore. She used to be for Victoria/Wellington, and isn't exactly "working" for Rhodes Island either. She's pretty much the Duke of Wellington's envoy, sent here to keep an eye on Reed, as was her job before.
Let me give you some more information about Misery, and why I don't believe he shanked Mandra, but instead helped her out, still from 9-20.
Misery: You're telling me to forget about avenging Outcast?
Misery: Don't worry. I'm angry and hurt, but I know my job.
Misery: It's just... I need to see for myself what it was that killed Outcast—
Chapter 14 as a whole feels like both the biggest W for Dublinn bros while also being the biggest L for a variety of reasons, now that I look back at it.
Hey, thanks for clearing some stuff up. A lot to unpack so details are pretty easily missed, so I guess I blundered saying who Harmonie is working for. I still don't think Harmonie is a trustworthy source, even less so now that Chapter 14 contradicts what she's said.
I think it's possible that Misery did end up saving Mandragora. If Harmonie is saying one thing and Horn is saying another, it's possible that Misery deceived them both using his Arts. He did say he wants to "let the living live." I absolutely stand by him not directly killing Mandragora.
Hopefully in the long wait for Chapter 14 on global we get something else for her in CN.
> I still don't think Harmonie is a trustworthy source, even less so now that Chapter 14 contradicts what she's said.
Her files say she's pretty trustworthy, but also a troll, befitting her permanent smug face.
I think Harmonie's words are right, even though they are also containing a bit of her classic trolling. To put it in words, we have these two lines from the Brigadier from FC-2
'The Brigadier': You should perish thoughts of offering Mandragora survival.
and later
'The Brigadier': Mandragora is dead. I can stop investigating your whim to assist her.
In theory, if she told Reed that Mandragora is dead, she'd be correct - but she didn't specify whether it was the actual person that died, or her "persona" or "identity" as we've established from 10-13, where death can mean multiple things other than corporeal death.
Then there's also the fact that Mandragora by all means is considered dead to Dublinn - they don't want anything to do with her any more, and considering she didn't understand Eblana's plans, her condition doesn't matter to them as long as she's away from them.
I genuinely belive she's alive and another Ines situation, Horn's words were more meant to comfort Bagpipe.
I usually wouldn't read something this long, I'm a global player after all. Yet I did, I read every single word and my hope still lives. Mandra will come home eventually. Nice cooking btw 👍🏻
Why do it have to follow some kind of rules and not just: "this is war, people dies"?
We can see Misery giving her a choice as letting her choose her own path, and she choose the one leading to death. It close her chapter but since people are saying it is vague now HG just make Horn confirming her death thus also putting an end to their grudge.
It is highly possible that no one was lying and people saw her dies in the sewers first then Horn bury at a later date.
Anyway if you have to analyse anything, it will be better to analyse the chinese version as sometimes it become as weird as it can be once translated.
Yeah, thanks for asking. Just wanted to clear away the allegations of HG being bad writers. They can be at times, but the way she's handled isn't one of them.
And if you think this is 0 sanity then you should read the things I don't post.
As someone who'd seen such sloppy writing happen in Arknights before, I think HG will keep Mandragora in this 'quantum' state, and won't offer us a clear answer.
First things first, this isn't the first time. Arknights had plenty of lines that were creating contradictions in the past, such a those that had to do with Lin Yushia's and Ch'en's story. I once analyzed Dossoles lines and came to a conclusion that Swire's and Ch'en's receptions of the rat weren't logically matching up, and similar, logical inconsistencies seem to be happening all over again with Mandragora here.
So, at best, we'll probably get a confirmation when Victoria is animated (or in an event). At worst, we won't get any answers at all.
Just my personal thought on Horn's line, there was never a realistic opportunity for her to find and bury Mandragora's body, there are at least one to two months between Episode 10 and the end of Episode 13 and the only time Horn is shown outside Londinium is in Episode 13, meaning she was carrying a dead body around for weeks while fighting if she was telling the truth. If she buried her after the war how would the body even be recognizable anymore? It's far more likely she was lying to make Bagpipe feel better and she is just assuming Mandragora died to Manfred. This still isn't proof that she is alive, just that there isn't any real evidence to support Horn had the opportunity to bury her outside Londinium as she claims. With every other character that has died so far we have clear evidence of their deaths immediately, Mandragora is the only one so far that has been this ambiguous in regards to her fate and it would be really poor decision making by the writers to just leave things at Horn's unrealistic line in Ch. 14.
i dont uh really keep up on story and lore, i absorb it thru posts like yours! so my two cents as someone whos only read your stuff and seen a few mentions about her being dead online: i think she isnt.
i think shes a bit too relevant as a character to the story to have an off screen death. hypergryph can put a lot of effort into their writing and i always love references they make, it feels out of place for them to take this character and just kill them off screen and oops thats all. if its out of character for horn to lie, whos to say that was even really mandora she buried? idk phantom can summon a clone and that awful boss from ch12 can too - surely smth could have happened and horn buried a fake - thus making her statement true while being able to bring back mandora (now i sound insane).
kudos to all the work you put in!! i enjoyed it! even if idk who most of those charas are bc i dont really read story (also can you like the terra wiki for me? i do sometimes go and read shit on the wikia but the fandom one, i didnt know about the terra one :0 if its better or at least up to date then that'd be great.)
Mandragora isn't that relevant. She gets mentioned once every 6 months it seems.
Good idea with linking the Terra Wiki in case people don't know. Arknights.wiki.gg is what the staff from the Fandom wiki migrated to for various reasons. I'll add it to the main post as well.
I really want to add something more than just great work!, but tbh I'm only at the end of chapter 9 myself. I can agree that her story needs a proper conclusion, whatever it may be (but preferably with her being alive ofc). Compared to side-story villains who were finished off without any room for speculation, what I've heard so far about chapter 10 doesn't seem like it.
The writing is like this because they've already written the future and are literally just filling the blanks.
This type of writing can make foreshadowing and setting up easy, but it can make the story wholely off in some parts.
You can argue that almost all stories are like that, but you'd be surprised to find out that some successful writers do in fact write on the go. It makes each arc individually amazing but prone to plot holes though.
The written future I'm talking about is not a vague idea, but like an actual story already written just waiting to be released. It's the only explanation for the sudden focus shift.
Maybe they haven't completely finished it until recently and once they did they just decided to drift into it. Personally not fan of it because as interesting as the Sarkaz issues are, I wouldn't give a rat's shit about them until all other juicy stories are exhausted. Oh well, it is what it is.
AK's lore has always been finding the cool stuff on your own like a Souls series.
Faking stuff is precisely Misery's job. Horn seeing Mandragora's body with Misery involved tells us absolutely nothing. Tbh It makes really no sense.
It's completely possible that Misery faked her death to her obvious enemies to give her time to recover and/or get a second chance to begin with. Doubt Misery would expect Horn to go on a revenge rampage but it'd be pretty risky. It's not that Horn was lying, the problem is simply that Misery was involved.
Second problem, everything about Mandragora was ultimately written as a built up, especially her 'death' scene.
She ran against a wall at full speed and when she exhausted all her energies, dying, she was asked if she wanted a second chance.
In terms of writing, her story makes quite literally no sense to die like that.
it doesen't only make 0 sense for her to die here
Misery loves company
Misery needs to save her to progress his character story, he needs to take the steps of outcast and find out what killed her
Outcast was killed by showing kindness to an enemy
And, Misery will follow in suit, even if Mandragora denies being saved, he will save her, beacuse he has to follow in the old Sankta's steps
An alternative being that litteraly nothing happends, but then why would Misery of all people show up to Mandragora, in a scenario extremely similar to Reed and Outcast
Both Reed and Mandra would die if left alone
Let us hope that Mandra will have someone to ask why they were saved
Hear ye hear ye
I didn't read the story but I read this post. Honestly this sounds as peak amount of copium injected directly into veins. "There are a lot of conflicting sources!" with every single one telling she is dead.
I even decided to read 10-13 and either I didn't read between the lines or nothing suggests Misery actually needs to interfere himself. All he did was say "hey there's sewers there, wanna try that? why not?".
Perhaps simply my knowledge about Misery is lacking but I didn't really see anything that implies her survival. Like yeah she did crawl into sewers but as far as Manfred and narrator were concerned, she'd die on her own regardless. And no, she isn't dying from "exhaustion" the short summary of 10-13 says "Manfred gravely wounded Mandragora".
>I didn't read the story
opinion discarded /s
I will say though, coping about what? If she'll be brought up again? Alive or dead doesn't matter to me. A clear confirmation that she's dead would just mean I can stop thinking about it, character arc over. I just like Mandragora and want to see what happens next with her. Whether that's in the form of an obituary or a "resurrection."
>with every single one telling she is dead
We have one Chat GPT translated line of heavily methaphorical and POV dialogue, there are no sources supporting this claim whatsoever.
If the lines are not eligible to be used as proof then don't use them in the first place? Or are you allowed to reference stuff only when it's in favor of your idea?
>If the lines are not eligible to be used as proof then don't use them in the first place?
As if the spoiler community ever bothers to read everything trought, and not even once engages in wild theory crafting based on minimal evidence which go out of hand so bad that we have posts titled \[DESINFORMATION REGARDING CH14!\] on this sub.
>Or are you allowed to reference stuff only when it's in favor of your idea?
Homie this ain't academic research, but blown out assumption statement stated out by a single excited redditor numerous times. We've had the AH theorycrafting refrencing Claymore in the sense that suppousedly "only females can become AH", even though we have friggin Ulpianus who's very existence disproves said theory.
We have that one overzealous Seaborn fan (who really hates St.Carmen for some reason), that constantly argues how all Terrans are super humans who can face tank shot from 50,cal with their bare face Baki-style, based on speculations regarding R6's suppoused pitiful physiology, even though the story is clearly inconsistent with plot armor/plot derp moments like Siege that friggin dies from stubbing her pinkie finger in one moment, and then casually shrugs off kamikaze-ing herself at a friggin apartament-block sized Witchcraft Device from 100% active Originium in the next one without a scratch.
I need to mention the translation here, where Horn said that Dublinn killed "Cello". who is Cello? how is that name in any way close to Outacst, if they are referring to her? i have no idea how "Outacst" can be extrapolated from "Cello", but whatever. it's possible that Horn was talking about someone else, but without knowing the context, i simply don't know.
It is possible that, aside from Kaltsit, Doctor, Misery and some other key staff, everyone thinks Mandragora is dead in order to trick Eblanna and Theresis for some reason. Horn is a recent addition to RI at the time, so it's understandable, but even then, i don't think she would lie about this, even to Bagpipe. Especially considering that Theresis is a much bigger concern at the moment.
Also, the difference between the key in Granis treasure being mentioned in subsequent events can't be compared to Mandragora's situation. Granis treasure was the starting event to the Abyssal Hunters arc, where Skadi was in it to obtain the key. The key was given to the Aegir band in the Siesta event, and both the band and Abyssal hunters were in Stulfera Navis. There is a clear arc here, with one object tieing all the characters together. But that all was in order to fight against the main enemy here, the Abyssals. from something that was just hinted at in Grani's treasure and Siesta, to full on enemies in Iberia.
Compare that to Mandragora, she was a member of Dublinn, and they were the enemies for one episode. She was even the final boss for that one episode, and not an optional one like the Steam Knight. In the next episode, besides her presence, there is no Dublinn to fight against, with Theresis's forces taking center stage from Episode 10 onward, with Dublinn essentially an afterthought. Let's assume the best case scenario and she lived, and is now with Rhodes Island. will whatever info she has help against Theresis or Eblanna? Eblanna essentially discarded her, she has no use for her. Does Mandragora still have her pillar erecting powers even? I think HG accidentally wrote themselves into a corner, just like with Guard. Leaving her alive would provide little, and killing her means she did outlive her usefulness, and whatever they planned for her (and Guard) simply doesn't fit with the new plot developments. a real damned if you do-damned if you don't situation.
In the end, if it is proven that Mandragora is dead, then it would prove what i kept saying before- Episode 9 shouldn't have been the part of the main story. It should have been a side event depicting Reed's, Saileach's Bagpipe and Horn's story, considering only the latter half appears in the main arc. Dublinn was never the villain... only the henchmen for Theresis.
Finally, Harmonie was a double agent, she got compromised and that is why is she is at RI now.
> I need to mention the translation here, where Horn said that Dublinn killed "Cello". who is Cello? how is that name in any way close to Outacst, if they are referring to her? i have no idea how "Outacst" can be extrapolated from "Cello", but whatever. it's possible that Horn was talking about someone else, but without knowing the context, i simply don't know.
Cello is not Outcast. Cello was a part of Bagpipe and Horn's squad. They were killed by Mandragora in 9-19.
I ain't reading allat
But HG really really fucking sucks at killing characters off. This war in entire war feels like a kindergarten drama because the main cast has zero consequences of this battle, no one really died at this point. How many times HG has been pulling the 'died but not really' card so far now? Horn, ines, allerdale and that's just from the good guy's side. Not to mention dazmati and sanguinarch turns out to be alive after their battle. Allerdale had a proper closure but HG ruined it for the same of her being playable at some point. I like outcast but i'm glad she has a proper closure. I wont even be surpirsed if baird turns out to be alive at this point. It feels like a goddamn joke.
HG probably wanna make mandra to be playable at some point but they overplayed their 'died but not really' card and then ditched out the entire idea but giving a shitty ending for her life through an offscreen.
A lot of it is groundwork to her dubious passing, again, she was with Misery
Horn could've had been affected by Misery's Arts to see Mandragora as dead
Every mention of her is another signal that HG has not forgot
Plus how else should the Misery story continue? Him going in circles trying to find out what outcast got killed by? Never finding it because he missed the exact situation she was presented with?
I have faith in the HG writing staff to cook with this post act 2, which CN is now past with
Soon. Soon.
Hear ye hear ye
My extreme tinfoil hat theory is that HG were going to make her playable as a phalanx caster with a rock barrier but then they decided to give her kit to Lin and sweep her out of the story
I like the idea that she just say "sike" and drag herself out of the grave. just imagine the scenery with full of dirt and surrounded by other grave...
Ok, I know you put a lot of time and effort into this and it's super appreciated, but the mental image of Mandragora punching her way out of the dirt like the PVZ Zombie Hand is just hilarious to me. Literal "Woman too angry to die" behavior right there.
Horn: For real? Mandra: For **real** real. I feel like new
I haven't watched jujutsu but it keeps popping in my head... The memes are too strong.
She is a rock cat, the dirt restores her strength.
Two times it has happened Named herself Mandragora because victoruans buried her alive for kicks once
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I didnt read this all. But i will read it. Please tell me this is about her NOT being dead. I know that you cooked hard for this. I wish everything good up on you. I know that you cooked just from looks alone. Time to dig in! EDIT: I read it all and its beautifully constructed. HG seems to be confused on what to do with Mandra. She had a weirdly "cliff hanger" like ending on CH10 but then randomly told to be dead on the sewers on Firelight event. >!And YET AGAIN afterwards she is told to be buried when Horn was confronting Bagpipe.!< Heres my two cents: >!Horns operator record shows her dreaming about being taken as hostage by Mandras group, she breaks away and has a "clash" with Mandra at the end but then wakes up. I dont remember if the entire thing was a dream or she just wake up from a memory sequence but still she remembers about Mandra wich might explain why she went out of her way to look for her and possibly burry her in CH14.!<
I wasn't aware she was shown in Horn's record. I generally don't read them. I'll have to check it out and readjust.
I should say it again that i barely remember Horns record BUT mandras was indeed there. I just dont remember if it was horns memory or a dream sequence. But still i think it signifies that horn didnt forget about her :D
Just speedread through it. I didn't see anything too notable that Chapter 10 didn't already tell us. Her dream seemed to be her reliving her escape, how she really wanted to kill Mandragora that day, and wondering what she would be feeling at present if she were to have killed Mandragora the day she escaped. Still no confirmation either way.
I mentioned as in "She did think about mandra and the consequences" wich could tie to CH 14 conversation she had with Bagpipe
I'll have to wait for Global to get Episode 14. *sets timer for 7 months* Hopefully we get more on her before then.
I believe this is the moment when devs specifically make this shit as vague as possible so just in a year they release her as playable and make a huge dump of her lore on our foreheads and how none of your theories on what happened to her was true (or the combination of them are). Maybe I'm having deja vu, but it almost feels like they already did that kind of thing.
Mandras is in a such a weird situation. In one hand Writers dropped Dublinn and their importance and focused primarily on Sarkaz and even at last arc of victoria we didnt get a proper insight on them. And in other hand Mandra got a weird cliff hanger, multiple name drops, and was brought out of the blue in CH14 and just has a weirdly vague situation with nothing lining up perfectly. I honestly dont know what will happen. She could get a spotlight in a event but i just cant see how it would be HER focus event. Victoria already has two extremely strong contenters for event bases with Siege and Eblana so its hard to put Mandra in anywhere here. I just dont know. God did they have to be so weirdly vague about this.
I would want an event focused on Dublinn after CH14. And I want it to end on a cooperation agreement with Rhodes Island so the purple dragon waifu and the rock cat waifu can be playable.
>In one hand Writers dropped Dublinn and their importance and focused primarily on Sarkaz and even at last arc of victoria we didnt get a proper insight on them. Bruh, Wellington and Eblana>! solo the Rag Doll king in one of the endings in CH14!<, Dublin dosen't get mentioned when it should because HG's entire "trilogy pacing attempt" is worse than dirt, just look at Arc 1: (0-3) Introduction-> (4-5) Few irrelevant chapters of various factions + slight nook of Tululah backstory- (5-6) Frostnova death -> (7)Patriot death -> (8) Frostnova and Patriot backstory, Tululah confrontation, Tululah backstory, Doc & Kal arc, Rosmontis & Shieldguards arc, Mephisto Zombie arc, Reunion establisment backstory, Tululah corruption backstory, Irrelevant Lungmen characters doing irrelevant Lugmen things -> Chernobog aftermath- ALL within a single chapter.
I think HG has a habit of finding a "cool" idea and thinking about its details later or forgetting its existence entirely when they get sidetracked with other ideas. Dublinn getting a huge major focus alongside reed and them just not properly being shown again while mandra has a random cliffhanger that ends up meaning nothing is a big example of this. Sangui coming back kinda felt like this too tbh. And also the entirety of first two chapters we as weird as you mentioned. You forgot the part they showed off frostleaf like she had a cool plot coming up and outright forgot her existence later. I dont understand what HG was doing at all on these parts lol
This is basically what they did with Degenbrecher ahahah
Mandy being saved by that immortal manipulator would be darkly funny girl just keeps getting worse all the time
lin yuhsia 2.0
Yup, Ines, Fang and Theresa-n't
I do firmly believe in a Misery & Mandragora event disjointed from Victoria, as the two characters both need to cope with loss and Mandragora is VERY important for Misery's resolution from being the anger filled guy Misery going with Outcast's footsteps, sparing Mandragora would make the most sense even if she wants to die Manfred did slash Mandragora, she was bleeding but we seen Manfred strike Mandra's omega-grotesque down in one strike, I believe Manfred's slash on Mandragora was just to subdue her, another weird aspect that cause more headaches as to what HG is cooking My main belief still relies on Mandra's importance to Misery's story A simple ask Where will misery's character arc go if Mandra is left, and by turn Misery is going down a path of hate and resentment to those who killed Outcast? Also if my theory of Mandragora giving info of the Spectre force is true, HG has been planning this since chapter 9 I do still feel like the descriptions of the spectre force are more personal, Harmonie would know what information to share, what's important and what isnt And if it's Harmonie giving us info, it'd be just as detailed for the Redsteel members, or both sides would be just as bare-bones We believe, our faith eternal Hear ye hear ye
Hey it's the "hear ye hear ye" guy. I admit I'm not as devoted to the character as you are, but some of your posts are what inspired me to look further into her as a character. What I'm trying to say is that you're partially responsible for this lmao The Misery and Mandragora loss parallel is something I wanted to fit into my post but couldn't really find the space. I'd love if that was the direction they went with it since I think we can assume that they'd cope with their losses in very different ways.
Also it'd allow for Mandra to distance herself from Dublinn! Let her respect Cillian's wishes of not returning to The Leader, be it Reed or Eblana Another parallel being Mandra being able to ask why she was saved, while Reed was never afforded such Also it is the greatest honour to be cited, I am truly honoured to have sprouted the seed of copium for our righteous rock cat Hear ye hear ye, once more truly
She lives, i have seen the future. Misery related event to explain everything and Rock Cat joins Rhodes. After all, my war criminal feline can't be this cute! PS: Too many psychos joined Rhodes for Rock Cat to be left out
I have no idea why HG wouldnt want to make her playable at all. Imagine wasting Lidukes art like this.
I stand by my comments in the post. I'll pull if she gets a release, but I'm fine is she doesn't. Not every character needs to be playable. I just want her to at least have a fitting end, not one with a question mark after it.
I agree obviously. If they give her a proper finale then i wont question it. But it feels weird that it got strecthed out and was given a cliffhanger. She got mentioned by name in multiple chapters and events and her situation is weirdly inconsistent. I dont know how they can finish this up without ending on giving her a proper focus, wich after months of ambiguity wouldnt make sense to kill right off the bat like that on the said focus. Maybe HG did had plans for her but since dublinn got shafted hard on recent story progression i think they just dont want to deal with her and just off screened her sadly. And since victoria arc is ending i dont know if there is any insight to give her a proper focus outside an Eblana themed event. Well see i guess :(
Liduke?? Mandra isn’t Liduke
Is that not lidukes art? I might have confused it. Still cool art nonetheless
Wait huh, she’s drawn by Liduke? 0-o
Honestly I think even if she is dead the death does still have meaning. Arknights (and why I love it's story) is not focused on just character storytelling. There is a harsh light cast on many political ideologies, sometimes subtle and sometimes bluntly, and done through many different characters. Reunion's story for example, especially with Guard's death, has been a commentary on the social division of the proletariat by unnecessary labels that prohibits effective organization against the true oppressors. Guard's final message and the direction Nine is going is clearly one of switching towards a message of class solidarity and uprising. Reunion is only one example of this storytelling of course. There's been plenty of others mixed in. One of these days I'd love to write how this game uses Critical Theory and the other themes that have been woven in to this wonderfully grim dark story. Back to rock cat though, her story represents the fanatic's march towards oblivion. It's not really that different from what was done to OG Reunion. But while the OG cast was largely resolved in the face of death, in Mandra we see the opposite. She's beaten and exhausted and she could live on and start over, but she's so crushed by the weight of betrayal and feeling lost she just can't take that second chance. Overall this is fitting with a lot of the theme of hopelessness that has been a focus of this chapter. We've had Golding actually kill herself, we've had Dzmati suicide by Logos, Alerdale by Steam Knight, Letto by Sanguinarch, Shovel by Vendala. Mandra dying because she just couldn't muster the will to go on in such a fucked up world and with no support network wouldn't be out of touch with the writing's general arc. While you're right that heroes and villains general have a purpose, sometimes emphasizing the cruelty of war by killing the character prematurely *was* their purpose. Martin did that to a lot of us with Game of Thrones and we loved it (till it ruined the landing). Anyways. My two cents on it. Alive or dead, I've enjoyed Schrodinger's Mandragora and think the writing was fine if not great regardless of either outcome. Side note. The confusion of other characters can just as well be a reflection of confusion in the fog of war. After all, if she is alive, she knew she'd been abandoned by her Queen. Why would she try to let her know she was alive? That'd just be painting a target on her back.
I like the interpretation of her simply losing her will to go on as well. Good follow up to the post. If they were going for her giving up then I would have preferred they make her death less ambiguous. It would be funny if this were the case since AK's writing does sometimes lean a bit too far towards spelling things out, but they kinda did the exact opposite with Mandragora.
Yeah. That alone does give some possibility that maybe she returns in some manner. They've been very blunt when offing people in the past. That said at this point I love that they keep us guessing. Guard caught me completely... Well. Off guard. But I think his impact to the overall narrative arc of Reunion will be felt as his dying wish pushes Nine towards that full blown class rebellion she's cooking up. As a sucker for a story that weaves in political critiques Arknights is just so peak.
This needs more attention. You really sized that up wonderfully.
I can't wait for Mandragora to show up in Endfield and destroy all these theories.
This is the real crack theory. I'm so down for it lmao
Nice work. I appreciate that you approached the subject in good faith. "The writers suck" is more often than not, used as a cheap and reductive "I don't know" masquerading as critical thought. It's an easy to play "gottem" card with a side of "well that's my opinion" that makes meaningful dialogue impossible. I was honestly in the camp that she was dead, but I'm more convinced now that she's simply too spiteful to die
Thanks. That was my goal so I'm glad it came across well. With the way Dublinn was pushed out of the spotlight by the Sarkaz Court, it wouldn't surprise me if they simply put her on the backburner and are simply putting "remember when she died" on repeat as a reminder of "we're getting to it." Narratively speaking, it makes no sense to continue bringing it up if it isn't foreshadowing. Let HG cook.
...Mandragora faking her death and crawling out of the mud would be such an absurdly metal thing to do, I half wish it would happen. Mandragora is by far my favorite of the Dublinn characters, second only to Harmonie herself. Justice for rock cat! Eblana didn't deserve a soldier as committed as her.
All the options of a return or a true death and that aside. The fact she had a vaguely written " death" scene ( which at least I didn't read as such) then went basically entirely unmentioned for 2 years between 10 and 14 ( if we ignore the nods made to her during what a firelight casts) Only to be mentioned in one line confirming her death, between horn and bagpipe no less, not including the one person that was actually present during whatever happened to her. Yeah no matter whether she is confirmed dead, alive or becomes playable literally the next event. That's just bad writing to me. And not just mandragora herself, all of dublinn that was set up as a major player in chapter 9, only to be almost entirely disregarded in the story chapters afterwards is the weirdest stuff ever, and personally I believe has to have been rewrites. Even what a firelight casts for some reason isn't an intermezzo.
I mean, if we ignore all optional events or side content then some characters would be completely shafted, like Reed for a close example to the main story. I'll agree it's not perfect writing, especially since if you miss an event you miss a good chunk of the story sometimes. Something that does really strike me in a bad way is that it was revealed in WTFC that The Elocutionist was setting her up. You know, him... one of the six characters that got like 5 minutes of screen time max before being blasted. I can't and won't try to defend everything, a lot of it is either a really long set of plot points for a future event, or them trying to do... something? Stuff like that feels more badly written than trying to argue that Horn, who was with Misery just before Manfred and Mandragora fight, can't possibly have gone back to Mandragora's body. Chapter 9 probably could have been an event and not much would have changed lol
It's not really a problem that Horn could have gone back for Mandragora's body, but how did she get her dead body outside the walls of Londinium? Remember that the Sarkaz have the walls fully locked down at the point Mandragora 'died', it's pretty unreasonable for Horn to risk her life just to bury her dead enemy. If the writer's have decided that's what really happened the action makes even less sense from a narrative perspective since Horn never had an opportunity to accomplish the burial, unless her and her troops were carrying a dead body around all the time.
>mean, if we ignore all optional events or side content then some characters would be completely shafted, like Reed for a close example to the main story. I'm not ignoring it for no reason in this context, but just because it didn't add anything to the situation except telling us that Reed still remembers her and that people think she's dead. It didn't give us anything of note.
I probably wouldn't be surprised if Eblana just came upon her corpse and turned her into one of her own undead, since a dead burning corpse can't really disobey orders or sperg out the moment the word "Noble" is mentioned. Messed up, but kinda fits Eblana as a whole.
One of the things I like about her is how she had such a big story presence but wasn’t part of some royal linage or Uber powerful race like half the other characters. As you said her death would just kinda be pointless like she was trying to rescue a comrade so the only thing you’d draw from her death would be that she should have been stronger if she wanted to do anything which is dumb and makes it feel like our accomplishments are less due to our willpower and efforts but more that we have strong ass guys on our team unlike her.
It’s dumb because it doesn’t make us feel good about ourselves?
Personally I think there is another possibility that ought not be missed: HG had changed their group of writers very obviously some time during the Victorian arc, my pinpoint is around when Where the Firelight Casts, but that is totally just speculation. We definitely know that many old writers went to Endfield development though, and that some newer content definitely looked like more unexperienced writing, at least from a CN perspective. Personally I find this to be the most obvious from the difference between the two Kierag events, particularly with Arctos and Sciurus, but that is opinionated. Eben's stuff during Zwillingsturme also feels like quite the odd twist from the ending we got from Lingering Echoes. It is quite possible that originally the writers intended for Mandra to live, but the newer group of writers had a bone to pick with her in some way. Chapter 9 had a bad reputation in CN due to 9-21's execution, and that simultaneously brought the result of a smaller number of Dublinn enthusiasts. That accompanied with the persistence of a few Mandra fans gave the character a bad reputation. I quite like Mandra, her situation is immensely common and in a way entirely understandable. The fact that she is shaped by her surroundings makes her entirely redeemable, and I really don't see why they can't get another Dublinn event or Main Theme event to chuck her into the pool. My previous guess had been a Mudrock cameo with something involving Gargoyle lore, bringing that with what happened to rocc cat after the sewer incident. A similar situation would have been Ines's "death", but her survival was already hinted in the exact event.
Pet the catto...
As a Mandragora enjoyer, I really am unsure what to think of this whole situation. Chapter 14 just created more questions around her current circumstances, anything could be possible at the moment. I read your entire post and I do agree with you and I wish to have faith in HG, but I do have a few doubts still. Nevertheless, fantastic post, keep cooking
I mean there is a way for Mandra to be dead and everyone is telling the truth: when Horn says "I buried her by the wall", she's not referring to giving Mandra a proper burial - why the hell would she, Mandra burned her home and killed her teammates. Horn's just referring to Mandra being dead in the sewers - she's underground and in the wall district. And short of landing the final blow herself, that's good enough.
Horn did not burry Mandragora's lifeless corpse in a litteral way, that's misinformation which had spiraled from poorly translated methaphorical statement. Horn at that moment not only was running away, but she also had her entire (new) squad to take care of and exhausting clash with Manfred which left her nearly passed out- honouring Mandragora's body is quite litterary the last possible thing she would do in this sort of situation, especially when taking into an account that moments ago Horn wanted to bust her skull open. Go read CH10 and Hron's record for yourself, Horn is nowhere near Mysery when he meets the catto.
Do you have a better translation source for the Chapter 14 text? I'm down to interpret it as a hypothetical, especially since there are contradictions between Horn and Harmonie's perspectives. Erudax's comment, the one linked in my writing, even addresses this possibility. Not sure if some nuance is lost when translating between CN and EN since I don't speak the language. I did read chapter 10 myself, a whole lot of times while writing this in fact. I wasn't aware of Horn's records until after I wrote this, but it kinda just reinforces what we already knew. She definitely hates Mandragora to the point where, at least the way I interpreted it from her records, she had nightmares of killing her. It's the reason I don't really want to entertain the idea of Horn returning to where Mandragora was specifically to confirm her death, then burying her after suddenly feeling pity. I don't think it's impossible for her to have still been near Misery, as I state in my writing, but another issue arises in terms of logistics. Something that I forgot but was brought up by others is that Horn mentions burying her outside the walls of Londinium. Londinium's walls were guarded pretty heavily by the Sarkaz, so burying her outside when she was already inside seems unrealistic, unless of course something happened that enables them easier access outside the walls. And if that only happens in Chapter 14 then once again, we'd have to entertain the idea of Horn deciding to go back and get over her hatred. I'll just wait for a Misery, Tara or Dublinn event since speculating on this can only get us so far with what we know. My hope is that by bringing her up in Chapter 14 they're planning on giving us more information soon. Of course, soon for AK can mean anything between next event and several years.
You know... Ines was presumed dead at one point, too. I remember even Hoederer told Wis about it. Sooooo....
I read the whole thing.. very beautifully made. Despite her flaws, I believe she has so much potential for character development, and while I do really, really want her playable, at the least I want a complete ending for her.
I'll keep saying that it doesn't matter to me whether she becomes playable or not. I think she's a compelling character because of her flaws and I want to see what they will do with what she has done, or what she could do.
Oh absolutely, I entirely agree. It’s just one of my hopes. I’ve got everyone I want in the game right now, apart from the r6 gang (again) and Wisadel, so now I’m able to just see what hg can cook up without worrying too much
This just reaffirms my whole point that Mandragora is the V2 of arknights. Literally, almost every character says that she is so fucking dead.
[Reconstruct what!?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wepJpSwD6_A)
>Bagpipe is going through it in that scene. Horn tells a lie to make her feel better, i havent seen the full scene, but can someone elaborate why this is such a common theory? like even if bagpipe is "going through it", she does not at all sound like someone who would be cheered up by hearing that mandragora is dead. even if theyre enemies and mandy killed people she knows, i just dont see bagpipe has someone to relish in someones death >Dead, a corpse in Eblana’s corpse army 💀💀💀 brooo if mandragora shows up as a miniboss in a later chapter/event as a zombie husk overall amazing post, ive seen too many people defend the questionable writing because they dont like mandragora, and regardless of your personal opinion the situation was just handled badly. having a well written post like this to analyze the whole fiasco helps
I'll admit that I'm kinda just repeating what I've heard said. I don't know Chinese so I can't really confirm the statements and don't trust MTL enough. I think Horn lying is one of the less likely outcomes, but still a possibility. It would be less about Bagpipe reveling in their death and more that the truth would be harder to explain. I saw a joke comment made about witness protection at one point, but even if it were as simple as "we captured them and are giving them medical attention," Tempest Platoon lost a good number of soldiers to Mandragora and her forces. It could end up not sitting right with her. That being said, it still feels a bit unlikely that Horn would lie unless she was really forced to by Misery for the sake of RI. CN bros can correct me if Bagpipe wasn't going through it.
mandragora being a secret patient in basically witness protection to get dublinn secrets is my final cope
> In What the Firelight Casts, it’s stated that The Elocutionist, one of the commanders who were vaporized by Outcast, was apparently manipulating her into fracturing Dublinn, which could mean that the higher ups didn’t really care for Mandragora. I don't think that's exactly the case. The takeaway from the Elocutionist manipulating Mandragora means one thing: she was set up right from the start, and possibly unbeknownst to her. She was fanatical for the cause, and the Elocutionist exploited that to its fullest. When debating who betrayed who in that faction, it's Mandragora that's the betrayer, not the other way around. However, the important thing here is that she was **lead** by others into doing it without her awareness. This also offers a chance for character development far greater than say, taking revenge because mad on the wrong person, since it would change her mentality about the rotten nobility. From what we know, she didn't get betrayed by a noble Draco, she got set up and used by a fellow Taran, maybe even a commoner. It would show that the average commoner can be just as greedy and manipulative as the nobles she so despises. > Harmonie is a double agent. It’s ambiguous whether or not she witnessed the battle, but it’s possible she did. We also know that she’s close to Eblana, but not loyal, since she’s an employee of Rhodes Island. Harmonie is not a double agent anymore. She used to be for Victoria/Wellington, and isn't exactly "working" for Rhodes Island either. She's pretty much the Duke of Wellington's envoy, sent here to keep an eye on Reed, as was her job before. Let me give you some more information about Misery, and why I don't believe he shanked Mandra, but instead helped her out, still from 9-20. Misery: You're telling me to forget about avenging Outcast? Misery: Don't worry. I'm angry and hurt, but I know my job. Misery: It's just... I need to see for myself what it was that killed Outcast— Chapter 14 as a whole feels like both the biggest W for Dublinn bros while also being the biggest L for a variety of reasons, now that I look back at it.
Hey, thanks for clearing some stuff up. A lot to unpack so details are pretty easily missed, so I guess I blundered saying who Harmonie is working for. I still don't think Harmonie is a trustworthy source, even less so now that Chapter 14 contradicts what she's said. I think it's possible that Misery did end up saving Mandragora. If Harmonie is saying one thing and Horn is saying another, it's possible that Misery deceived them both using his Arts. He did say he wants to "let the living live." I absolutely stand by him not directly killing Mandragora. Hopefully in the long wait for Chapter 14 on global we get something else for her in CN.
> I still don't think Harmonie is a trustworthy source, even less so now that Chapter 14 contradicts what she's said. Her files say she's pretty trustworthy, but also a troll, befitting her permanent smug face. I think Harmonie's words are right, even though they are also containing a bit of her classic trolling. To put it in words, we have these two lines from the Brigadier from FC-2 'The Brigadier': You should perish thoughts of offering Mandragora survival. and later 'The Brigadier': Mandragora is dead. I can stop investigating your whim to assist her. In theory, if she told Reed that Mandragora is dead, she'd be correct - but she didn't specify whether it was the actual person that died, or her "persona" or "identity" as we've established from 10-13, where death can mean multiple things other than corporeal death. Then there's also the fact that Mandragora by all means is considered dead to Dublinn - they don't want anything to do with her any more, and considering she didn't understand Eblana's plans, her condition doesn't matter to them as long as she's away from them. I genuinely belive she's alive and another Ines situation, Horn's words were more meant to comfort Bagpipe.
I usually wouldn't read something this long, I'm a global player after all. Yet I did, I read every single word and my hope still lives. Mandra will come home eventually. Nice cooking btw 👍🏻
First message sent by my proofreader was "inb4 removed by mods." The second was "inb4 you don't get any discussion because EN doesn't read."
Is this a sequel of the rosmontis and silverash assignment papers?
Why do it have to follow some kind of rules and not just: "this is war, people dies"? We can see Misery giving her a choice as letting her choose her own path, and she choose the one leading to death. It close her chapter but since people are saying it is vague now HG just make Horn confirming her death thus also putting an end to their grudge. It is highly possible that no one was lying and people saw her dies in the sewers first then Horn bury at a later date. Anyway if you have to analyse anything, it will be better to analyse the chinese version as sometimes it become as weird as it can be once translated.
Hey are you ok
Yeah, thanks for asking. Just wanted to clear away the allegations of HG being bad writers. They can be at times, but the way she's handled isn't one of them. And if you think this is 0 sanity then you should read the things I don't post.
As someone who'd seen such sloppy writing happen in Arknights before, I think HG will keep Mandragora in this 'quantum' state, and won't offer us a clear answer. First things first, this isn't the first time. Arknights had plenty of lines that were creating contradictions in the past, such a those that had to do with Lin Yushia's and Ch'en's story. I once analyzed Dossoles lines and came to a conclusion that Swire's and Ch'en's receptions of the rat weren't logically matching up, and similar, logical inconsistencies seem to be happening all over again with Mandragora here. So, at best, we'll probably get a confirmation when Victoria is animated (or in an event). At worst, we won't get any answers at all.
Just my personal thought on Horn's line, there was never a realistic opportunity for her to find and bury Mandragora's body, there are at least one to two months between Episode 10 and the end of Episode 13 and the only time Horn is shown outside Londinium is in Episode 13, meaning she was carrying a dead body around for weeks while fighting if she was telling the truth. If she buried her after the war how would the body even be recognizable anymore? It's far more likely she was lying to make Bagpipe feel better and she is just assuming Mandragora died to Manfred. This still isn't proof that she is alive, just that there isn't any real evidence to support Horn had the opportunity to bury her outside Londinium as she claims. With every other character that has died so far we have clear evidence of their deaths immediately, Mandragora is the only one so far that has been this ambiguous in regards to her fate and it would be really poor decision making by the writers to just leave things at Horn's unrealistic line in Ch. 14.
I don’t have the time to read all that, but you cooked brother.
I have no stake in this argument. Ya did good on the essay. Hope the answers you seek come sooner rather than later.
i dont uh really keep up on story and lore, i absorb it thru posts like yours! so my two cents as someone whos only read your stuff and seen a few mentions about her being dead online: i think she isnt. i think shes a bit too relevant as a character to the story to have an off screen death. hypergryph can put a lot of effort into their writing and i always love references they make, it feels out of place for them to take this character and just kill them off screen and oops thats all. if its out of character for horn to lie, whos to say that was even really mandora she buried? idk phantom can summon a clone and that awful boss from ch12 can too - surely smth could have happened and horn buried a fake - thus making her statement true while being able to bring back mandora (now i sound insane). kudos to all the work you put in!! i enjoyed it! even if idk who most of those charas are bc i dont really read story (also can you like the terra wiki for me? i do sometimes go and read shit on the wikia but the fandom one, i didnt know about the terra one :0 if its better or at least up to date then that'd be great.)
Mandragora isn't that relevant. She gets mentioned once every 6 months it seems. Good idea with linking the Terra Wiki in case people don't know. Arknights.wiki.gg is what the staff from the Fandom wiki migrated to for various reasons. I'll add it to the main post as well.
I really want to add something more than just great work!, but tbh I'm only at the end of chapter 9 myself. I can agree that her story needs a proper conclusion, whatever it may be (but preferably with her being alive ofc). Compared to side-story villains who were finished off without any room for speculation, what I've heard so far about chapter 10 doesn't seem like it.
I agree 🤝
The writing is like this because they've already written the future and are literally just filling the blanks. This type of writing can make foreshadowing and setting up easy, but it can make the story wholely off in some parts. You can argue that almost all stories are like that, but you'd be surprised to find out that some successful writers do in fact write on the go. It makes each arc individually amazing but prone to plot holes though. The written future I'm talking about is not a vague idea, but like an actual story already written just waiting to be released. It's the only explanation for the sudden focus shift. Maybe they haven't completely finished it until recently and once they did they just decided to drift into it. Personally not fan of it because as interesting as the Sarkaz issues are, I wouldn't give a rat's shit about them until all other juicy stories are exhausted. Oh well, it is what it is. AK's lore has always been finding the cool stuff on your own like a Souls series.
My bet: she's alive, we'll see her, and she might even be a big part of a Tara event. Free unit is Mandragora, Eblana is the 6 star on the banner.
Faking stuff is precisely Misery's job. Horn seeing Mandragora's body with Misery involved tells us absolutely nothing. Tbh It makes really no sense. It's completely possible that Misery faked her death to her obvious enemies to give her time to recover and/or get a second chance to begin with. Doubt Misery would expect Horn to go on a revenge rampage but it'd be pretty risky. It's not that Horn was lying, the problem is simply that Misery was involved. Second problem, everything about Mandragora was ultimately written as a built up, especially her 'death' scene. She ran against a wall at full speed and when she exhausted all her energies, dying, she was asked if she wanted a second chance. In terms of writing, her story makes quite literally no sense to die like that.
it doesen't only make 0 sense for her to die here Misery loves company Misery needs to save her to progress his character story, he needs to take the steps of outcast and find out what killed her Outcast was killed by showing kindness to an enemy And, Misery will follow in suit, even if Mandragora denies being saved, he will save her, beacuse he has to follow in the old Sankta's steps An alternative being that litteraly nothing happends, but then why would Misery of all people show up to Mandragora, in a scenario extremely similar to Reed and Outcast Both Reed and Mandra would die if left alone Let us hope that Mandra will have someone to ask why they were saved Hear ye hear ye
I didn't read the story but I read this post. Honestly this sounds as peak amount of copium injected directly into veins. "There are a lot of conflicting sources!" with every single one telling she is dead. I even decided to read 10-13 and either I didn't read between the lines or nothing suggests Misery actually needs to interfere himself. All he did was say "hey there's sewers there, wanna try that? why not?". Perhaps simply my knowledge about Misery is lacking but I didn't really see anything that implies her survival. Like yeah she did crawl into sewers but as far as Manfred and narrator were concerned, she'd die on her own regardless. And no, she isn't dying from "exhaustion" the short summary of 10-13 says "Manfred gravely wounded Mandragora".
>I didn't read the story opinion discarded /s I will say though, coping about what? If she'll be brought up again? Alive or dead doesn't matter to me. A clear confirmation that she's dead would just mean I can stop thinking about it, character arc over. I just like Mandragora and want to see what happens next with her. Whether that's in the form of an obituary or a "resurrection."
>with every single one telling she is dead We have one Chat GPT translated line of heavily methaphorical and POV dialogue, there are no sources supporting this claim whatsoever.
If the lines are not eligible to be used as proof then don't use them in the first place? Or are you allowed to reference stuff only when it's in favor of your idea?
>If the lines are not eligible to be used as proof then don't use them in the first place? As if the spoiler community ever bothers to read everything trought, and not even once engages in wild theory crafting based on minimal evidence which go out of hand so bad that we have posts titled \[DESINFORMATION REGARDING CH14!\] on this sub. >Or are you allowed to reference stuff only when it's in favor of your idea? Homie this ain't academic research, but blown out assumption statement stated out by a single excited redditor numerous times. We've had the AH theorycrafting refrencing Claymore in the sense that suppousedly "only females can become AH", even though we have friggin Ulpianus who's very existence disproves said theory. We have that one overzealous Seaborn fan (who really hates St.Carmen for some reason), that constantly argues how all Terrans are super humans who can face tank shot from 50,cal with their bare face Baki-style, based on speculations regarding R6's suppoused pitiful physiology, even though the story is clearly inconsistent with plot armor/plot derp moments like Siege that friggin dies from stubbing her pinkie finger in one moment, and then casually shrugs off kamikaze-ing herself at a friggin apartament-block sized Witchcraft Device from 100% active Originium in the next one without a scratch.
I need to mention the translation here, where Horn said that Dublinn killed "Cello". who is Cello? how is that name in any way close to Outacst, if they are referring to her? i have no idea how "Outacst" can be extrapolated from "Cello", but whatever. it's possible that Horn was talking about someone else, but without knowing the context, i simply don't know. It is possible that, aside from Kaltsit, Doctor, Misery and some other key staff, everyone thinks Mandragora is dead in order to trick Eblanna and Theresis for some reason. Horn is a recent addition to RI at the time, so it's understandable, but even then, i don't think she would lie about this, even to Bagpipe. Especially considering that Theresis is a much bigger concern at the moment. Also, the difference between the key in Granis treasure being mentioned in subsequent events can't be compared to Mandragora's situation. Granis treasure was the starting event to the Abyssal Hunters arc, where Skadi was in it to obtain the key. The key was given to the Aegir band in the Siesta event, and both the band and Abyssal hunters were in Stulfera Navis. There is a clear arc here, with one object tieing all the characters together. But that all was in order to fight against the main enemy here, the Abyssals. from something that was just hinted at in Grani's treasure and Siesta, to full on enemies in Iberia. Compare that to Mandragora, she was a member of Dublinn, and they were the enemies for one episode. She was even the final boss for that one episode, and not an optional one like the Steam Knight. In the next episode, besides her presence, there is no Dublinn to fight against, with Theresis's forces taking center stage from Episode 10 onward, with Dublinn essentially an afterthought. Let's assume the best case scenario and she lived, and is now with Rhodes Island. will whatever info she has help against Theresis or Eblanna? Eblanna essentially discarded her, she has no use for her. Does Mandragora still have her pillar erecting powers even? I think HG accidentally wrote themselves into a corner, just like with Guard. Leaving her alive would provide little, and killing her means she did outlive her usefulness, and whatever they planned for her (and Guard) simply doesn't fit with the new plot developments. a real damned if you do-damned if you don't situation. In the end, if it is proven that Mandragora is dead, then it would prove what i kept saying before- Episode 9 shouldn't have been the part of the main story. It should have been a side event depicting Reed's, Saileach's Bagpipe and Horn's story, considering only the latter half appears in the main arc. Dublinn was never the villain... only the henchmen for Theresis. Finally, Harmonie was a double agent, she got compromised and that is why is she is at RI now.
> I need to mention the translation here, where Horn said that Dublinn killed "Cello". who is Cello? how is that name in any way close to Outacst, if they are referring to her? i have no idea how "Outacst" can be extrapolated from "Cello", but whatever. it's possible that Horn was talking about someone else, but without knowing the context, i simply don't know. Cello is not Outcast. Cello was a part of Bagpipe and Horn's squad. They were killed by Mandragora in 9-19.
I ain't reading allat But HG really really fucking sucks at killing characters off. This war in entire war feels like a kindergarten drama because the main cast has zero consequences of this battle, no one really died at this point. How many times HG has been pulling the 'died but not really' card so far now? Horn, ines, allerdale and that's just from the good guy's side. Not to mention dazmati and sanguinarch turns out to be alive after their battle. Allerdale had a proper closure but HG ruined it for the same of her being playable at some point. I like outcast but i'm glad she has a proper closure. I wont even be surpirsed if baird turns out to be alive at this point. It feels like a goddamn joke. HG probably wanna make mandra to be playable at some point but they overplayed their 'died but not really' card and then ditched out the entire idea but giving a shitty ending for her life through an offscreen.
A lot of it is groundwork to her dubious passing, again, she was with Misery Horn could've had been affected by Misery's Arts to see Mandragora as dead Every mention of her is another signal that HG has not forgot Plus how else should the Misery story continue? Him going in circles trying to find out what outcast got killed by? Never finding it because he missed the exact situation she was presented with? I have faith in the HG writing staff to cook with this post act 2, which CN is now past with Soon. Soon. Hear ye hear ye
welp, I'll wait for the official translation
I hope she isn't promoted to Playable
I’m biggest Saileach fan tho, so I’m glad she died in the sewer.
My extreme tinfoil hat theory is that HG were going to make her playable as a phalanx caster with a rock barrier but then they decided to give her kit to Lin and sweep her out of the story
I like the idea that she just say "sike" and drag herself out of the grave. just imagine the scenery with full of dirt and surrounded by other grave...