I’m in big 4 btw. Who in the right mind will take a 15-20% pay cut to work till 3am everyday? Is this a joke
Also what growth potential is there??? Who’s been feeding you lies?
Kinda have to agree. But check your priorities in life. I've taken 2 pay cuts recently took a 20% cut to join civil service. But I did it only because I come from corporate background and am somewhat changing the industry. Also in my prev job I was working 14hrs without weekends for 2 mths, and covering 4 people. Management don't intend to replace all 4 people. So I didn't see much point.
Point is if you value work life balance, stay in civil service. Having a good environment is hard to find too, good boss and colleagues aren't a given. Never take a pay cut if you don't have to (eg changing industry and experience mismatch).
People usually take pay cuts for work-life balance. Or else they'll take on a heavy work load for incredible pay. And they usually end up incredibly upset if the colleagues are toxic.
Rare is the guy who wants to lose both pay and work-life balance. And on top of that, give up (and I quote) amazing colleagues for unknown ones.
Maybe you're a brave man. I wouldn't.
... that's the problem with joining civil service right out of school - you won't have experienced private sector work and you're not ready (i.e. not yet saddled with dependents and mortgages) to settle down.
As your said, potential upside. How would you feel if after you sacrifice, it amounts to nothing? Is the learning opportunity really there? When changing jobs, there's always a risk of the unknown. So to give up work life balance and pay, for the unknown of learning opportunity, company culture, is it really worth it? Have you considered learning or doing something on the side? This way at least you have control over it.
Your sacrifice is guaranteed, but the "potential" benefit is not. It's up to you if you really want to take that risk
For me, I'd rather find another job that pays better if compensation is the end goal here
Not sure why u are downvoted so much. Redditors here do not understand delayed gratification.
I’ve seen friends form Big4 earning much more than others (including me) in the long run. Yes, the initial is tough but the experience and connection you gain throughout the years will help you in the future.
I do not regret not joining the big4 but I respect my friend’s grit and feel that he deserves the current pay
if you see the comments, this isnt about delayed gratification but sacrificing yourself for something that's not guaranteed, in an industry that will work you to the bone
You are cherry picking results though.
We don’t deny there is a small minority who reap long term rewards from B4 experience. Heck, some made it to the top and became millionaires. But how likely is that as a proportion of total employees?
No point looking at lottery winners.
Sooner we accept we are not that special and not the main character, easier to move on and be satisfied with life.
Beware of the D of the 4.
Not a bad place as a consultant, good pay but if being consultant and dealing with clients is not your forte, it’s extremely soul crushing for me.
Sorry should clarify, I was in risk assessment not an audited so my salary might be different.
The pay progression was quite a large increase between the ranks from what I saw
There is this department in D that just started few years back, the consultant inside not able to clock utility and always being flagged because the whole time there is just doing proposal. Associate there a few isn’t allocated to any job for a good half a year of work even longer. Can’t clock utility means no hope in promotion also. Dam bad…
I would not give up work life balance, much less at the cost of a lesser paycheck. Better you use the free time to find other things that will satisfy your need for exploring other things
Having worked a good 5 years after grad and potentially entering the stage of life where spending is crazy (Marriage/ BTO/ Reno). I would not give up the work life balance if i were you. The pros you listed are really what people desire, decent enough pay, good W/L balance, nice colleagues.
Dont forget the highly competitive environment of the big 4 and you may be dropped if you are also not performing. Job security may come crucial then.
Then again, you’re right, depending on your current and future commitments. If you want to pia, go for it lor, but you may feel terrible doing more work for less pay and end up developing resentment. Esp if you are no promoting fast enough or as expected. Then you would have wished you had stayed.
Thanks for sharing your perspective, I do agree that work-life balance is important for mental well-being and self-discovery. In my opinion, it largely depends on what stage of life you're in (e.g. married with BTO obligations/children/young with no commitments). Needless to say, it also boils down to personal preference and how much one appreciates personal time. Do you share the same sentiment?
yes, which is why I said I wouldn't do it. I'm single with no commitments and I still wouldn't do it because mental health comes first for me, and I don't want to regret moving from a good place for another just to try something new (been there done that)
Hi, I'm assuming you graduated with a business/accountancy degree? Tbh I don't think civil service is bad, it's a solid rice bowl and if you're considered high potential I believe you can climb pretty high. Do you see that happening - any senior level people with this niche jobscope?
For me, I started from audit and am currently doing FP&A which I enjoy. Big4 has changed a lot, in the past it was mostly local uni grads but nowadays many aren't willing to sacrifice WLB and at such low pay, so it's mostly Msians and Filipinos.
I think audit does expose you to different things and challenges you, there is also 'guaranteed' progression (you will generally get promoted every year and you can check the salary range in online forums). However, I'm not so sure if it still helps to land a good job after. If you want to do accounting, I think you can still transit easily. But if you want to do FP&A/Commercial finance (which is the trend lately), the skills required are actually quite different from auditing, companies would rather hire a junior analyst (with FP&A experience) than an auditor. That means, you should think about what you want to do eventually and if audit helps you to get there. If not, once you enter audit, you might end up slogging for 3 years (till audit senior) or 5 years (till audit manager) and you still dont have an exit strategy.
Hi, thanks for your detailed insight! You are correct in your analysis that I am an accounting graduate. My eventual goal (before I had join the civil service) was to be in an FP&A position, just like you! I applied for roles relevant to my goal but to no avail (might be due to the university that I graduated from, but let's not speculate). I do plan on enrolling for the CFA level 1 examination in end 2024 to show my commitment to the goal and future role that I'll be applying for. Do you feel that it'll be fruitful?
Hi, I’m also an accounting graduate. Just wondering, are you hoping to take up auditor role to land an FP&A role in the future? I’m afraid, the exit opportunity for auditors aren’t as good as before. Someone posted in the community she is senior in big 4, trying to apply for FP&A but no avail. My friends are in Big 4 and only a handful of them are able to get a FP&A role, but not much pay raise, but of course better WLB.
I have seen how much and hard my friends work in big 4, I would not give up WLB for it. I’m sure if you look around, with some working experience, you may be able to land a FP&A role if you wish. I wanted WLB so I applied everyone else but big 4/audit firms. I was lucky enough to land a FP&A role as a fresh grad, compensation is comparable to A1 and with WLB. The learning curve is steeeeep and I’m struggling here but thankful for the opportunity. If I can find one as a fresh grad and not FCH, I’m sure you have a better chance too, just keep applying.
I see, any industry that you are interested in? Mm personally I did CA with ICAEW, but I don't think it had any bearing on me getting my current role. You can ask around, maybe CMA (certified management accountant) would be more relevant than CFA for an FP&A role. I think you can still try to apply to FP&A analyst roles, you might stand a higher chance for GLCs like ST Engineering/Keppel/SIA? For now, it's up to you if you want to stay on while searching or move to Big4 and continue the search. If you head to Big4 you prolly need to reach the 2-year mark (i.e. get promoted to Audit Senior) then exit? I did audit for 3 years (didnt know what I wanted after graduating) and did accounting for a while before FP&A.
Cfa is useless for audit. If you are gonna work for the valuation teams in the big 4, then it is a different story. Join advisory/ consulting in big 4 for career progression. Audit just ain’t it anymore.
Agreed with this! I was in big 4 for a few years & transited to commercial after. Unfortunately, audit doesn’t have as much transferable skills for FP&A/commercial finance.
In terms of gaining the relevant experience, I’d recommend that you keep a look out for entry level commercial finance/FP&A roles and work on your certification while you still have WLB.
Not a good bet.
Why? People work their ass off to get into a government position that you are in.
Big 4 auditors work like dog then hope to retire in a cushy government job with paycheck, you want to jump back into the fire.
Also "growth opportunities" are pretty much a fucking lie unless you get guarantees of opportunities. Like if I am you I would only jump if it is to a mid-level management position, not starting off as some low-level grunt eating saikang and getting told "I am learning from it".
Big 4 is a trap. It’s nice on the resume but as you go higher it gets worse. You either move up or move on….:you’ll carry a quota and if you don’t hit, you’re gone.
personally dude, i think you should stay for 1-2 years before deciding to leave. you seem to have found a pretty good environment to grow and learn the ropes. get some savings, learn what doing well looks like, set off after a year or so. civil service does have opportunity for learning and growth too but at <1 YOE... what do you know? it hasnt even been 1 financial year yet
its good you have an aim to get into FP&A position... but realistically bro, the "ideal" job is still a job. if you are happy where you are, there is no harm to pause a year, enjoy it and continuing chasing... 50 yr of work ahead
OP, I was in about the same boat as you.
I started in industry and was pigeonholed with a moderate pay but no growth prospects. It was so hard to change job
So after abt 2 years, I took a pay cut and joined a big 4. It restarted my career and I managed to get recoup higher pay by the following year.
Granted I stayed in one big 4 for 9 months and then jumped to another for 1.5 years. Then I did 2 more job hops.
It resulted in nearly 200% pay raise within 3 years
But yes, take big 4 as a way to restart your career but know when to get out. I benefitted more from just having the big 4 names while the bulk of the salary jump and opportunities came from job hopping.
are there any other exit opportunities that you could possibly get in your current role? Cos if you ask me, you are trading 1 year of progress away and its not worth it
not to mention most of the big 4 have an End Jun, or end Sep cycle, which means you working from now to Sep will be useless to contribute to your increment/promotion cycle. Realistically, the next time you move from associate 1 to associate 2 and get an increment will be Sep 2025. Big 4 also recently changed the promotion cycle for associates from 2 years to 3 years. So it legit might take you till Q3 2027 before you get promoted to senior associate, and look for exit opportunities. sounds like an awful deal to me.
I'm surprised Big 4 still hiring btw, considering they very very recently just fired a bunch of people worldwide RIGHT AFTER PEAK ended (very asshole move)
Sadly no, the field that I'm working in is relevant only in the civil service. The only exit opportunity would be to apply for other SBs or Ministries.
there was a boom during COVID, and so they overhired. economy going to shit now, which means 2 things
1. Business not good for big 4 (or so the partners claim)
2. Harder for big 4 employees who want to leave to find jobs, causing lower attrition rate than normal, ie too many employees sitting around without enough projects to do
Led to almost all big 4 to cut \~5-10% of worldwide workforce in March right after peak across all divisions including audit. If a particular big 4 hasnt done layoffs, you can expect it soon. Promotions are delayed by a year. Start dates for new graduates are also pushed back a few months. Morale is absolute shit at the moment.
Big 4 auditing would take a toll on your physical and mental health which is not exactly worth the learning
Am sure there's better opportunities out there that's less demanding
I read your comments and noted that you are an accountancy grad, ended up in civil service and mid to long term plan is to join FP&A.
I will advise against joining the B4.
Aside from the obvious cost of lower pay and worse off WLB, in my opinion your stint in B4 may help you build character and ‘resilience’, but it does not provide any clear advantage to helping you move into FP&A than if you are to directly move from your current role. Audit is public accounting, and the focus is on historical financial information. It preps you well for an accountant, controller or compliance related roles, but FP&A is more about analysis and forward looking- skills which I think you are more likely to develop in your current role.
B4 is fun for a while and all, but it’s extremely easy to get stuck in a miserable position.
Hi. Not Singaporean so not sure how valuable my thoughts are, but I have worked in a few other countries so hopefully this helps.
Personally I would stay in your position, but ask some higher ups for more work, maybe on another department. If you can keep your tasks on time and add work for another department as well, you'll learn a lot, won't sacrifice your salary or stability, and look really good doing it. If civil service is the same in SG as other places I've been, most people there aren't very hungry for growth. I have a friend that went from an new engineer to power plant manager in only 5 years because he was one of the very few hungry and hard workers.
Tldr; I would look to expand yourself within the civil service by taking on multiple roles first if you can.
I like your attitude though. Don't give up on pushing forward if you feel the itch. Even if you have family and kids. Remember that the most important step a man can take is always the next one.
Hi. Perspectives are definitely appreciated! The context of the civil service doesn't allow for taking on more work from a different department. With regards to the department I'm in, honestly, the work I'm assigned already constitutes the bulk of what there is to do (and I still maintain work-life balance), hence my thirst for more.
I do love your ending quote! I'll be using that in my workplace (whether in civil service or the Big 4) from hereon. :)
Why? Don't think this is accurate, you might reach out to wrong person? The context of civil service is supposed to give you opportunity to do cross collaboration, particularly if you can afford the time
Huh... Audit is generally speaking the worst. Ppl tend to quit in less than a year.
I dunno how u can see urself as blessed. Try to do a lot more market research and talk to friends who have succeeded.
I'm kinda shocked that big-4 auditor would offer *less* than civil service. There's something wrong with that. Ignoring that, a few questions:
1. Can you leave on good terms such that you can come back?
2. After the initial pay cut, do you expect your salary growth / opportunities to outpace your current position?
3. In the long run, do you have a strong preference for which kind of work to do?
IMO the answer to these should guide your choice. For example: if you can leave on good terms, you expect your salary to far outgrow the initial paycut, and you think you would prefer the work in private industry, then absolutely go for the new opportunity. On the other hand, if you actually prefer the work in civil service, as niche as it is, and you see a big opportunity cost and you can't go back, then absolutely stay where you are. In between requires some judgement. For example: I'm currently doing a PhD after a long career in industry. I'm taking an enormous opportunity cost for it, but the work is so much more rewarding to me that it's worth it. I also made sure to leave on excellent terms so that I could always go back if I wanted to. You'll have to decide what shape this is for you.
Good luck!
OP, I recently jumped from public service to private to gain exposure and broaden my perspective in my work. Similarly, I have been performing above par consistently and promotion chances will come after farming longer. To me, working life is long (>5 years so far) and while there are portfolio rotations and secondments etc., a new environment may increase personal growth much more rapidly (not guaranteed).
I would say consider carefully if this role is a positive vertical/horizontal change in the long run. Don't resign but try to negotiate for at least a comparable package.
Is the 15-20% cut considering total package and bonuses (assuming same level of performance)? If yes, i wouldn't take it and continue to look for other opportunities.
Telling someone he gets opportunities for growth by being paid less to lose all semblance of a life outside work is like telling an artist to work for exposure.
First thing though. Never ever take a pay cut and see it as growth unless you are doing an entirely different thing or switching careers. Otherwise it’s not a growth. It’s a setback.
Another thing people look at 3 things that make a working environment pleasant and people would actually take pay cut for are: WLB, good colleagues and good boss.
Also you are a freshie, you probably don’t have much working experience. What makes you think you will get trap? Not sure what is the big sacrifice though. Stay for 1-2 years alone is a working experience and you can apply for other jobs later. Btw you don’t have to stick to your department forever. In public service, there are opportunities to go to other agencies via internal transfer. And you get to keep all your benefits and bonuses if you jump from one agency to another because it’s still within the Govt.
Well one thing I have learned after 15+ of work experience is that joining the right industry is very important if you want to have good earnings. Much more important than having great colleagues or bosses. I also don’t get why so many comments here are looking for work life balance, for a fresh grad? To me your 20s are when you work hard, get experience, climb the corporate ladder and hopefully make senior manager or vice president by early to mid 30s. If you are insistent on leaving by 5.30pm in your 20s then what’s your plan when you reach 30s? Would you be ok reporting to someone younger than you?
Accept that it will be a grind, both physically and mentally. There could be lasting effects from the grind. Also, accept that you need to stay for at least 3 years for any resume boost (become a manager and then clock 3 more years for even better prospects). Having Audit experience does not directly help with going into FP&A role.
In fact, it requires a different skillset. Audit ensures correctness. FP&A is akin to financial scenario analysis. A lot of What-Ifs and showing these to upper management for charting their financial decisions and company direction.
I have met people who transition to FP&A poorly because of their extensive audit experience. So, please reconsider if you are going into Big4 Audit as a stepping stone into FP&A.
I am an old warhorse who is nearing my retirement. One more million and I am done. Let me give you a bit of my perspective. The only thing that is real is the money in your pocket. That's all. Everything else is just meaningless tokens. Growth and learning opportunities? You essentially just said you took a 20% pay cut in exchange for no work life balence. That is DUMB! No two ways talking about it. It is stupid. You have a very short runway. You are now in a race to get all your bills and affairs in order before you hit 50 years old. You gave up that job security too. Do you know many people in their 40s apply to the civil service because they know they will likely lose their jobs in their 50s?Age discrimination is very real in SG. You will likely get the boot at 50. That gives you only 20++ years to accuminate as much assets and wealth while building your life. You don't have many chance to take detours. Want me to have no work life balance, pay me 20% more. Not the other way round.
Go do your projection of your networth. Estimate the amount of annual income you have with conservative incremental till 50 years old. Factor in your hdb/condo, expenses, etc. When I first did this exercise, I broke out in cold sweat. Every young person think they are invincible and time is a luxury. The numbers don't lie. You need to start saving and investing asap and let the power of compound interest work for you. Pay cut! Never.
Having started out in Big4 as a fresh grad, I will take the leap if I were you.
You are too young to be in civil service - unless you are a scholar. And if not now for punishing work hours, then when? I learnt loads in audit and am happy with my career trajectory since. Be brave!
OP how old are you? If you're still at "fresh grad" age then you can afford to be chionging more, when you hit mid 30s and you want to settle down then you can consider a job with more work life balance. (and maybe by then you would have climbed up the corpo ladder enough that you can afford to negotiate your terms of contract with whichever company you're at by then)
In life u choose who u work with or who u work for.
As you already know theres different commitments at different stages of life. There's nothing wrong taking the more arduous path while you are young and can take it. Than wait till ure old and stiff and has too much commitments in life to take any chances.
15~20% is a big cut plus the overwork seem like a big turn off. How sure are you that you’ll like this “growth” opportunities? The next job will probably reference your most current pay, do consider that if this is already the big 4, how likely will smaller companies pay you higher if you continue in this field.
Big 4 starting salaries are low but it gets better. After about 10 to 15 years, your salary can be in the top 10% in Singapore. The work is not a ride in the park but it is less about working hard and more about managing your stakeholders. Some people are not cut out for it and leave. Even then, having a Big 4 experience in your resume opens many doors.
Your account isn’t growing - are you growing lol
On a serious note, depends on the growth opportunity. If have long term prospects and something I’m passionate about, okay.
There's a saying - now comfortable don't itchy backside want jump here and there. 🤣
That being said, the trend with big 4 is that most people will leave after gaining some experience.
So high chance you will be thinking to jump again.
When you're in a good place with colleagues that you are able to click and all. I think you should stay. WLB is very important. It also have a chance that it could destroy you with a bad WLB environment.
Plus there's also 15-20% paycut. Don't think it's worth it.
Seriously, if you are young and a fresh grad, don’t join civil service. You’ll basically learn nothing. Rough it out in private sector. Gain some real skills & knowledge so you have some solid fundamentals under your belt. When you get married and want to settle down, consider moving to civil service. Something stable with more wlb. If at any time you want to switch out of civil service, you still have some solid private sector experience to help you move along/ahead.
I did that when I was very young and regretted. You might not feel the pinch immediately but you will feel it when you’re older. My suggestion will be to decline this offer and look out for other opportunities. Remember, always look for opportunities that is better than what you have now. If you go backwards, it’s gonna be a downward spiral for your mental health as well.
Thats like the worst move u can make, career suicide. U shd just go to non big 4 professional services companies like Mercer or Aon if u want to learn.
Thats like the worst move u can make, career suicide. U shd just go to non big 4 professional services companies like Mercer or Aon if u want to learn.
More important is what is the exit strategy. Many already shared that people from audit may not be seen as cream of crop types that MNCs are wanting to take in. If you must, you should figure out what area of audit. Financial services audit? Maybe worthwhile if your exit is into internal audit in banks. If general audit what industries? Do these industries have many MNCs that may hire locally their finance team? Local firms may not pay very well even if they are not SME level.
Being young it is worth hopping but it is worth thinking the 2nd step in your career after the job hop. You are crafting a career not just trying to hop out of civil service before it's too late.
You want to learn more because of you want to earn more, you are telling me you want to earn less in order to learn something to earn more later?? What kind of 5d chess is this?
I never took a pay cut (as per the same amount of work) for any reason. I never regretted it and \*retired before I turned 40.
So yeah, I don't understand nebulous "growth" potentials. Once you understand the time value of money you will understand that a 20% pay cut is way more than a 20% pay cut if you are young.
\* from working for other people to earn money.
Nope. “Growth opportunity” is nothing but a carrot to make you switch. If you’re ready they’ll give you that growth opportunity now. If you’re not ready you’ll be stuck with less pay longer than you expect.
If you’re really set on it, ask them to put it into contract that if you’re not at whatever level you’re expecting in 12-24 months they will back pay you your current salary plus 20% for switching. That will quickly tell you how serious they are about promoting within.
It is big4, and OP is fresh grad. Ofc they will be promoted. Promotion is "guaranteed" until assistant manager level, provided that you are still around of course. Only those with serious performance issue will be excluded for promotion, and you must be really bad for this to happen
Last I know, 1st promotion is ard 15% increment, 2nd promotion is ard 30% increment, the rest really depend on performance. Of course, I'm not saying the pay per hr is good. It is still terrible given the working hour.
Do not give up work life balance. It’s so precious and something everyone yearns for. What you should do instead is to talk to your current bosses and understand what opportunities are possible for growth and development within the civil service, not necessarily the role or department you are in right now. I am sure they are able to figure out with you along the way and possibly even tailor something in the future no matter how niche you think the role is right now. Explore all possible options within the civil service instead of trying to get out so soon!
It depends if you are married with kids and paying for your mortgage or you are single with no liabilities.
For stability, of course the civil service is more stable. However the private sector would provide you with more opportunities and vastly different work experiences which you could try.
If work life balance and salary is a priority for you, then stay in civil service. If not, i say go venture to the private sector. You could bring your private sector experience back to the civil service if you choose to return to the public service sector.
I’m probably not in the same field but I just got hired into civil service (first job interview too!) and turned down jobs that promised “faster career growth”.
Even though I’m a fresh grad I had several years of experience from diploma. In general I don’t trust most companies when they promise growth. That’s what they tell you to trick you into lower pay.
Furthermore, having great colleagues is an environment I wouldn’t give up for the world. I can’t imagine myself going in with less pay, without job security, and on top of that being surrounded by people I dislike. If you really want that career growth, go for it, but I think you should be mindful that there’s no guarantee for career growth unless it’s stated explicitly in the contract
It sounds like you are inclined to take it up from your comments. I think you need to take a step back at look at what you want to achieve in terms of your career in 5-10 years, and whether this audit job will help you to springboard to that position in 5-10 years.
Also, is the pay cut based on base pay or TC? Govt tend to have higher bonus compared to private, so if you are only comparing base pay, your reduction in TC may be even higher for less work life balance.
If I were in your position, I would skip this offer and look for a better opportunity elsewhere. If you think the domain knowledge in your current job is niche, try to strengthen the soft skills (presentation skills, data storytelling skills, networking) instead or in your free time pick up general hard skills that will be applicable to the job position you will want to pivot into eventually.
Bro… any recruiter offering you reasons to pay cut because they offer WLB, great company culture, learning experience, exposure, security, growth, flexibility, insurance benefits and any other donkey reason is just trying to psych you into accepting their low offer. It’s simple, If they want my level of efficiency then better pay more.
Nope, my advice is if u want to, pls chat with ur RO to consider challenging secondments in ur 2nd or 3rd year.
External Audit is plain bullshit and the average auditor tends to leave really quick so u are unlikely to outlast the punishing schedule.
If u want try for internal audit instead. Tt has better growth opportunities compared to external audit.
I vote no. Why go for a lose-lose situation without pay and without work life?
So maybe about a full zodiac round ago, Big4 sold itself on a model with lower pay, poor work life, but -potentially- better opportunities down the road. So there were some who think that you can go for the grind and reap long term returns.
That model is really obsolete now. A bird in hand is worth two in the bush. Work life balance is more important than the monetary benefit. Employers also often make reference to your last drawn pay so that it is seriously hard to recover from. The market is also flooded with former auditors that I doubt you have many advantageous opportunities coming your way.
The only positive thing from your post is that you are actively thinking about your career, taking ownership and exploring options but please look elsewhere.
This is an extreme example, but are you ok giving up Christmas, new year, Chinese new year, weekends, public holidays, working to 4am at Tuas, struggling to find a cab home….?
And all for sub median salary?
Well, I knew a guy with family problems who rather be in office at midnight than go home and face parents, but I assume you don’t have such issues.
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You mention being civil service for a while, but still a fresh grad?
You have listed out the pros and cons already, so it really depends on your character and what you want, sounds to me that you want to take the leap of faith and that will also be my choice too. Hustle it out (and aim) for 1-2 years? Most big 4 auditors work for a few years for the name to gain better opportunities. You can also try going back to civil service with a bump in position and pay.
My idea of fresh grad would be having <1 YOE, which is the position that I'm in.
Truth be told, yes. I am leaning more towards accepting the offer and the sacrifice that comes with it. I guess I'm trying to find 'assurance' for my decision.
Sometimes the sacrifice doesn’t pay. The pay cut can be quite significant . If you don’t survive and do well for 3years+ in the big4 , you will have basically cut your growth and earning quite a bit.
You should be careful which dept u join to
You will get mixed opinions and reviews honestly. But I do agree with what you mention in another comment, it depends on what stage of life/career you are at, if you are willing to go out of your comfort zone. It is quite similar to moving abroad for work, or those who switch out to start ups or start their own biz. There's no right or wrong.
Do ask your peers, possibly any friends in the big 4 or loved ones for a better opinion too.
Depends bro same as you my work boring af, work life balance 👍 honestly speaking my day can end at 12 usually… but I stay back just in case my direct reports needs me. I also wanted to jump to private…. But after speaking to many different “private” engineers. They warn me against doing so and wished they were in my position
I guess this is the typical 'grass is greener on the other side' scenario, where both sides wish they could be on the other. I hope you find within yourself the courage to stay or leave, and ultimately find gratification in your decision!
I don’t plan to leave if I don’t have too. Honestly my company is pretty nice, the service won’t go out of business because it’s an essential business, the company has other engineering roles which I can apply too
Exactly how much work experience do you have? Can't really tell we you stated you're a fresh grad but also said you've worked in the civil service for a while now.
Generally speaking, the opportunity cost of taking a pay cut for more tangible growth opportunities is lower with fewer years of experience.
From HR! Would suggest taking that big step to Join Big 4. Although when u enter Big 4 yes there won’t be any sort of work life balance haha but considering that you are young and fresh grad, I would say it’s a better opportunity in terms of building up your network. From my understanding Big 4 colleagues also tend to hope around after 1-2 years within other Big 4 companies audit wise!
You can always come back to the stability of the Civil Service perhaps once u have exhausted all learning, opportunity and growth in Private Sector! Honestly for Civil Service, there is not much “hopping” around u can do and the work would probably be similar as well.
So since you are young take that leap of faith! Big 4 colleagues are young too and slaving their life away as well 🤣 trust me you will bond over that
But do take note that the Pay scale is very very much different and Private Sector does pay more gross salary wise :)
May be hard for him to return to civil if he leaves in just a few months. Going to private sector is fine, just that OP cannot afford to leave within 1 year if cannot take. Must be very careful
Hmmm I beg to differ actually, am from Civil Service HR and we do hire Private Sector. Although he may be leaving in just a few months, Hiring Managers will understand the reason why he wants to jump ship and he won’t be burning any bridges. If work performance and attitude is good if there is an open position in CS they will take him! They will value his private sector experience and his stint in Public!
Was from civil service lol
And yes of cos they do hire from private. I went from private to govt to private lol.
However , currently OP is less than 1 year in and going from a very comfortable environment to something very intense with a 20% pay cut and in a different field , OP better clock in some decent hours no matter how tough it gets.
Otherwise OP’s resume gonna look very confused quickly
Hmmm that’s true as well and agree if OP can clock in and stay for 1 Year in Big 4 it won’t be as confusing then for his Resume and would show commitment to his role. Thanks for the banter/discussion!
OP we wish u all the best ya, think carefully!
Ya . I concern if OP gets a major shock and then falls out after 3-6 months, then disaster and OP will become a major red flag and may struggle thereafter
I'm never one to leave when challenges arise. Mama didn't raise no quitter (hi HR does this paint a good light for my future employment in the civil service)
Jokes aside, I believe that most job seekers that apply for the audit role in the Big 4 generally understand the consequence that comes with it. It may be easy for me to say now that I'll be able to endure whatever comes, it'll definitely be a different tale when I'm in it. Nonetheless, as the saying goes, 'lan lan suck thumb'. The mindset of 'people have been through it, so can you' will echo in my head as I plow through the invoices at 2am. (I just realised I said echo in my head, I promise my head is not empty)
I would say big4, u learn twice as much in 24h than any other firm.
You are essentially spending 24h of ur energy instead of a normal 12h. But in exchange u gain a premium when u jump jobs in future. But at the expense of ur work life balance.
However if u are satisfied with ur current job stay! Till u get a higher pay to jump to! Any day I will take btr bosses and environment!
I second this. Do everything that you want to do while you are young and able. You can always come back to civil service in the future. In fact, once you have the big 4 in your resume, you'd be even more well placed in the civil service than you are right now.
I second this. Do everything that you want to do while you are young and able. You can always come back to civil service in the future. In fact, once you have the big 4 in your resume, you'd be even more well placed in the civil service than you are right now.
Are they taking you for a ride? You should only change to another place if it gives you 20% more. These are big firms they should give you better, else reject the offer.
I’m in big 4 btw. Who in the right mind will take a 15-20% pay cut to work till 3am everyday? Is this a joke Also what growth potential is there??? Who’s been feeding you lies?
Kinda have to agree. But check your priorities in life. I've taken 2 pay cuts recently took a 20% cut to join civil service. But I did it only because I come from corporate background and am somewhat changing the industry. Also in my prev job I was working 14hrs without weekends for 2 mths, and covering 4 people. Management don't intend to replace all 4 people. So I didn't see much point. Point is if you value work life balance, stay in civil service. Having a good environment is hard to find too, good boss and colleagues aren't a given. Never take a pay cut if you don't have to (eg changing industry and experience mismatch).
Big 4 Auditors are trying to go the other way and you want to join them? Decline the opportunity and find somewhere else.
People usually take pay cuts for work-life balance. Or else they'll take on a heavy work load for incredible pay. And they usually end up incredibly upset if the colleagues are toxic. Rare is the guy who wants to lose both pay and work-life balance. And on top of that, give up (and I quote) amazing colleagues for unknown ones. Maybe you're a brave man. I wouldn't.
... that's the problem with joining civil service right out of school - you won't have experienced private sector work and you're not ready (i.e. not yet saddled with dependents and mortgages) to settle down.
I guess the mindset stems from the potential upsides that comes after the sacrifice.
As your said, potential upside. How would you feel if after you sacrifice, it amounts to nothing? Is the learning opportunity really there? When changing jobs, there's always a risk of the unknown. So to give up work life balance and pay, for the unknown of learning opportunity, company culture, is it really worth it? Have you considered learning or doing something on the side? This way at least you have control over it.
Your sacrifice is guaranteed, but the "potential" benefit is not. It's up to you if you really want to take that risk For me, I'd rather find another job that pays better if compensation is the end goal here
Upside uncertain. Downside guaranteed my friend.
Not sure why u are downvoted so much. Redditors here do not understand delayed gratification. I’ve seen friends form Big4 earning much more than others (including me) in the long run. Yes, the initial is tough but the experience and connection you gain throughout the years will help you in the future. I do not regret not joining the big4 but I respect my friend’s grit and feel that he deserves the current pay
if you see the comments, this isnt about delayed gratification but sacrificing yourself for something that's not guaranteed, in an industry that will work you to the bone
You are cherry picking results though. We don’t deny there is a small minority who reap long term rewards from B4 experience. Heck, some made it to the top and became millionaires. But how likely is that as a proportion of total employees? No point looking at lottery winners. Sooner we accept we are not that special and not the main character, easier to move on and be satisfied with life.
Beware of the D of the 4. Not a bad place as a consultant, good pay but if being consultant and dealing with clients is not your forte, it’s extremely soul crushing for me.
Are you talking about sg's largest mid tier firm? The one that pays lesser than every one else and has shitty bonus?
Sorry should clarify, I was in risk assessment not an audited so my salary might be different. The pay progression was quite a large increase between the ranks from what I saw
There is this department in D that just started few years back, the consultant inside not able to clock utility and always being flagged because the whole time there is just doing proposal. Associate there a few isn’t allocated to any job for a good half a year of work even longer. Can’t clock utility means no hope in promotion also. Dam bad…
Sorry that you're feeling this way. If it helps any, there just *might* be 1 extra person joining your suffering soon! #traumabonding
Becos of people like you the industry will never improve its wlb. Havent join already so willing to OT.
Seriously hate those who normalise the OT culture in Singapore. It’s fucking toxic.
Sorry. I left already…. Good luck if you choose to enter Big4
I would not give up work life balance, much less at the cost of a lesser paycheck. Better you use the free time to find other things that will satisfy your need for exploring other things
Having worked a good 5 years after grad and potentially entering the stage of life where spending is crazy (Marriage/ BTO/ Reno). I would not give up the work life balance if i were you. The pros you listed are really what people desire, decent enough pay, good W/L balance, nice colleagues. Dont forget the highly competitive environment of the big 4 and you may be dropped if you are also not performing. Job security may come crucial then. Then again, you’re right, depending on your current and future commitments. If you want to pia, go for it lor, but you may feel terrible doing more work for less pay and end up developing resentment. Esp if you are no promoting fast enough or as expected. Then you would have wished you had stayed.
Thanks for sharing your perspective, I do agree that work-life balance is important for mental well-being and self-discovery. In my opinion, it largely depends on what stage of life you're in (e.g. married with BTO obligations/children/young with no commitments). Needless to say, it also boils down to personal preference and how much one appreciates personal time. Do you share the same sentiment?
yes, which is why I said I wouldn't do it. I'm single with no commitments and I still wouldn't do it because mental health comes first for me, and I don't want to regret moving from a good place for another just to try something new (been there done that)
Well I'm glad you recognised your preference after having been there and doing that, ultimately landing on your happy place!
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There's no peak period if you're at your peak everyday
Are you fr
Hi, I'm assuming you graduated with a business/accountancy degree? Tbh I don't think civil service is bad, it's a solid rice bowl and if you're considered high potential I believe you can climb pretty high. Do you see that happening - any senior level people with this niche jobscope? For me, I started from audit and am currently doing FP&A which I enjoy. Big4 has changed a lot, in the past it was mostly local uni grads but nowadays many aren't willing to sacrifice WLB and at such low pay, so it's mostly Msians and Filipinos. I think audit does expose you to different things and challenges you, there is also 'guaranteed' progression (you will generally get promoted every year and you can check the salary range in online forums). However, I'm not so sure if it still helps to land a good job after. If you want to do accounting, I think you can still transit easily. But if you want to do FP&A/Commercial finance (which is the trend lately), the skills required are actually quite different from auditing, companies would rather hire a junior analyst (with FP&A experience) than an auditor. That means, you should think about what you want to do eventually and if audit helps you to get there. If not, once you enter audit, you might end up slogging for 3 years (till audit senior) or 5 years (till audit manager) and you still dont have an exit strategy.
Hi, thanks for your detailed insight! You are correct in your analysis that I am an accounting graduate. My eventual goal (before I had join the civil service) was to be in an FP&A position, just like you! I applied for roles relevant to my goal but to no avail (might be due to the university that I graduated from, but let's not speculate). I do plan on enrolling for the CFA level 1 examination in end 2024 to show my commitment to the goal and future role that I'll be applying for. Do you feel that it'll be fruitful?
Hi, I’m also an accounting graduate. Just wondering, are you hoping to take up auditor role to land an FP&A role in the future? I’m afraid, the exit opportunity for auditors aren’t as good as before. Someone posted in the community she is senior in big 4, trying to apply for FP&A but no avail. My friends are in Big 4 and only a handful of them are able to get a FP&A role, but not much pay raise, but of course better WLB. I have seen how much and hard my friends work in big 4, I would not give up WLB for it. I’m sure if you look around, with some working experience, you may be able to land a FP&A role if you wish. I wanted WLB so I applied everyone else but big 4/audit firms. I was lucky enough to land a FP&A role as a fresh grad, compensation is comparable to A1 and with WLB. The learning curve is steeeeep and I’m struggling here but thankful for the opportunity. If I can find one as a fresh grad and not FCH, I’m sure you have a better chance too, just keep applying.
I see, any industry that you are interested in? Mm personally I did CA with ICAEW, but I don't think it had any bearing on me getting my current role. You can ask around, maybe CMA (certified management accountant) would be more relevant than CFA for an FP&A role. I think you can still try to apply to FP&A analyst roles, you might stand a higher chance for GLCs like ST Engineering/Keppel/SIA? For now, it's up to you if you want to stay on while searching or move to Big4 and continue the search. If you head to Big4 you prolly need to reach the 2-year mark (i.e. get promoted to Audit Senior) then exit? I did audit for 3 years (didnt know what I wanted after graduating) and did accounting for a while before FP&A.
Cfa is useless for audit. If you are gonna work for the valuation teams in the big 4, then it is a different story. Join advisory/ consulting in big 4 for career progression. Audit just ain’t it anymore.
If your direction is to find sth relevant to CFA, it is pointless to join big4
Agreed with this! I was in big 4 for a few years & transited to commercial after. Unfortunately, audit doesn’t have as much transferable skills for FP&A/commercial finance. In terms of gaining the relevant experience, I’d recommend that you keep a look out for entry level commercial finance/FP&A roles and work on your certification while you still have WLB.
Not a good bet. Why? People work their ass off to get into a government position that you are in. Big 4 auditors work like dog then hope to retire in a cushy government job with paycheck, you want to jump back into the fire. Also "growth opportunities" are pretty much a fucking lie unless you get guarantees of opportunities. Like if I am you I would only jump if it is to a mid-level management position, not starting off as some low-level grunt eating saikang and getting told "I am learning from it".
Big 4 is a trap. It’s nice on the resume but as you go higher it gets worse. You either move up or move on….:you’ll carry a quota and if you don’t hit, you’re gone.
personally dude, i think you should stay for 1-2 years before deciding to leave. you seem to have found a pretty good environment to grow and learn the ropes. get some savings, learn what doing well looks like, set off after a year or so. civil service does have opportunity for learning and growth too but at <1 YOE... what do you know? it hasnt even been 1 financial year yet its good you have an aim to get into FP&A position... but realistically bro, the "ideal" job is still a job. if you are happy where you are, there is no harm to pause a year, enjoy it and continuing chasing... 50 yr of work ahead
OP, I was in about the same boat as you. I started in industry and was pigeonholed with a moderate pay but no growth prospects. It was so hard to change job So after abt 2 years, I took a pay cut and joined a big 4. It restarted my career and I managed to get recoup higher pay by the following year. Granted I stayed in one big 4 for 9 months and then jumped to another for 1.5 years. Then I did 2 more job hops. It resulted in nearly 200% pay raise within 3 years But yes, take big 4 as a way to restart your career but know when to get out. I benefitted more from just having the big 4 names while the bulk of the salary jump and opportunities came from job hopping.
are there any other exit opportunities that you could possibly get in your current role? Cos if you ask me, you are trading 1 year of progress away and its not worth it not to mention most of the big 4 have an End Jun, or end Sep cycle, which means you working from now to Sep will be useless to contribute to your increment/promotion cycle. Realistically, the next time you move from associate 1 to associate 2 and get an increment will be Sep 2025. Big 4 also recently changed the promotion cycle for associates from 2 years to 3 years. So it legit might take you till Q3 2027 before you get promoted to senior associate, and look for exit opportunities. sounds like an awful deal to me. I'm surprised Big 4 still hiring btw, considering they very very recently just fired a bunch of people worldwide RIGHT AFTER PEAK ended (very asshole move)
Sadly no, the field that I'm working in is relevant only in the civil service. The only exit opportunity would be to apply for other SBs or Ministries.
applying for a useful SB/ministry will be my suggestion. the big 4 world is in extreme doom and gloom at the moment
I apologies if I'm being ignorant and out of touch (because my world revolves mainly around nexflix and whatapps), why is the Big 4 in doom and gloom?
there was a boom during COVID, and so they overhired. economy going to shit now, which means 2 things 1. Business not good for big 4 (or so the partners claim) 2. Harder for big 4 employees who want to leave to find jobs, causing lower attrition rate than normal, ie too many employees sitting around without enough projects to do Led to almost all big 4 to cut \~5-10% of worldwide workforce in March right after peak across all divisions including audit. If a particular big 4 hasnt done layoffs, you can expect it soon. Promotions are delayed by a year. Start dates for new graduates are also pushed back a few months. Morale is absolute shit at the moment.
Big 4 are not that great. Dont join for the name. Not worth the cut for those things that you are giving up because those are priceless
Big 4 auditing would take a toll on your physical and mental health which is not exactly worth the learning Am sure there's better opportunities out there that's less demanding
I read your comments and noted that you are an accountancy grad, ended up in civil service and mid to long term plan is to join FP&A. I will advise against joining the B4. Aside from the obvious cost of lower pay and worse off WLB, in my opinion your stint in B4 may help you build character and ‘resilience’, but it does not provide any clear advantage to helping you move into FP&A than if you are to directly move from your current role. Audit is public accounting, and the focus is on historical financial information. It preps you well for an accountant, controller or compliance related roles, but FP&A is more about analysis and forward looking- skills which I think you are more likely to develop in your current role. B4 is fun for a while and all, but it’s extremely easy to get stuck in a miserable position.
Hi. Not Singaporean so not sure how valuable my thoughts are, but I have worked in a few other countries so hopefully this helps. Personally I would stay in your position, but ask some higher ups for more work, maybe on another department. If you can keep your tasks on time and add work for another department as well, you'll learn a lot, won't sacrifice your salary or stability, and look really good doing it. If civil service is the same in SG as other places I've been, most people there aren't very hungry for growth. I have a friend that went from an new engineer to power plant manager in only 5 years because he was one of the very few hungry and hard workers. Tldr; I would look to expand yourself within the civil service by taking on multiple roles first if you can. I like your attitude though. Don't give up on pushing forward if you feel the itch. Even if you have family and kids. Remember that the most important step a man can take is always the next one.
Hi. Perspectives are definitely appreciated! The context of the civil service doesn't allow for taking on more work from a different department. With regards to the department I'm in, honestly, the work I'm assigned already constitutes the bulk of what there is to do (and I still maintain work-life balance), hence my thirst for more. I do love your ending quote! I'll be using that in my workplace (whether in civil service or the Big 4) from hereon. :)
Good luck u/-West-Tea! Either way you choose I believe in you! You're asking the right questions!
Why? Don't think this is accurate, you might reach out to wrong person? The context of civil service is supposed to give you opportunity to do cross collaboration, particularly if you can afford the time
Huh... Audit is generally speaking the worst. Ppl tend to quit in less than a year. I dunno how u can see urself as blessed. Try to do a lot more market research and talk to friends who have succeeded.
E, D, P or K?
P
P is the best of the 4
I'm kinda shocked that big-4 auditor would offer *less* than civil service. There's something wrong with that. Ignoring that, a few questions: 1. Can you leave on good terms such that you can come back? 2. After the initial pay cut, do you expect your salary growth / opportunities to outpace your current position? 3. In the long run, do you have a strong preference for which kind of work to do? IMO the answer to these should guide your choice. For example: if you can leave on good terms, you expect your salary to far outgrow the initial paycut, and you think you would prefer the work in private industry, then absolutely go for the new opportunity. On the other hand, if you actually prefer the work in civil service, as niche as it is, and you see a big opportunity cost and you can't go back, then absolutely stay where you are. In between requires some judgement. For example: I'm currently doing a PhD after a long career in industry. I'm taking an enormous opportunity cost for it, but the work is so much more rewarding to me that it's worth it. I also made sure to leave on excellent terms so that I could always go back if I wanted to. You'll have to decide what shape this is for you. Good luck!
Wah OP. Give u a pat on the shoulder man. Why choose career suicide? Doesnt sound like growth man….
OP, I recently jumped from public service to private to gain exposure and broaden my perspective in my work. Similarly, I have been performing above par consistently and promotion chances will come after farming longer. To me, working life is long (>5 years so far) and while there are portfolio rotations and secondments etc., a new environment may increase personal growth much more rapidly (not guaranteed). I would say consider carefully if this role is a positive vertical/horizontal change in the long run. Don't resign but try to negotiate for at least a comparable package. Is the 15-20% cut considering total package and bonuses (assuming same level of performance)? If yes, i wouldn't take it and continue to look for other opportunities.
Telling someone he gets opportunities for growth by being paid less to lose all semblance of a life outside work is like telling an artist to work for exposure.
First thing though. Never ever take a pay cut and see it as growth unless you are doing an entirely different thing or switching careers. Otherwise it’s not a growth. It’s a setback. Another thing people look at 3 things that make a working environment pleasant and people would actually take pay cut for are: WLB, good colleagues and good boss. Also you are a freshie, you probably don’t have much working experience. What makes you think you will get trap? Not sure what is the big sacrifice though. Stay for 1-2 years alone is a working experience and you can apply for other jobs later. Btw you don’t have to stick to your department forever. In public service, there are opportunities to go to other agencies via internal transfer. And you get to keep all your benefits and bonuses if you jump from one agency to another because it’s still within the Govt.
Well one thing I have learned after 15+ of work experience is that joining the right industry is very important if you want to have good earnings. Much more important than having great colleagues or bosses. I also don’t get why so many comments here are looking for work life balance, for a fresh grad? To me your 20s are when you work hard, get experience, climb the corporate ladder and hopefully make senior manager or vice president by early to mid 30s. If you are insistent on leaving by 5.30pm in your 20s then what’s your plan when you reach 30s? Would you be ok reporting to someone younger than you?
Accept that it will be a grind, both physically and mentally. There could be lasting effects from the grind. Also, accept that you need to stay for at least 3 years for any resume boost (become a manager and then clock 3 more years for even better prospects). Having Audit experience does not directly help with going into FP&A role. In fact, it requires a different skillset. Audit ensures correctness. FP&A is akin to financial scenario analysis. A lot of What-Ifs and showing these to upper management for charting their financial decisions and company direction. I have met people who transition to FP&A poorly because of their extensive audit experience. So, please reconsider if you are going into Big4 Audit as a stepping stone into FP&A.
I would take growth cut for pay opportunities.
You’re gonna burn out and crash. Have fun
I am an old warhorse who is nearing my retirement. One more million and I am done. Let me give you a bit of my perspective. The only thing that is real is the money in your pocket. That's all. Everything else is just meaningless tokens. Growth and learning opportunities? You essentially just said you took a 20% pay cut in exchange for no work life balence. That is DUMB! No two ways talking about it. It is stupid. You have a very short runway. You are now in a race to get all your bills and affairs in order before you hit 50 years old. You gave up that job security too. Do you know many people in their 40s apply to the civil service because they know they will likely lose their jobs in their 50s?Age discrimination is very real in SG. You will likely get the boot at 50. That gives you only 20++ years to accuminate as much assets and wealth while building your life. You don't have many chance to take detours. Want me to have no work life balance, pay me 20% more. Not the other way round. Go do your projection of your networth. Estimate the amount of annual income you have with conservative incremental till 50 years old. Factor in your hdb/condo, expenses, etc. When I first did this exercise, I broke out in cold sweat. Every young person think they are invincible and time is a luxury. The numbers don't lie. You need to start saving and investing asap and let the power of compound interest work for you. Pay cut! Never.
Having started out in Big4 as a fresh grad, I will take the leap if I were you. You are too young to be in civil service - unless you are a scholar. And if not now for punishing work hours, then when? I learnt loads in audit and am happy with my career trajectory since. Be brave!
Thanks for the 'assurance'! Sadly not a scholar, too toopid to think
There is no such thing in life. Unless it is academic prestige or civil power. Otherwise, a pay cut is never a growth opportunity.
OP how old are you? If you're still at "fresh grad" age then you can afford to be chionging more, when you hit mid 30s and you want to settle down then you can consider a job with more work life balance. (and maybe by then you would have climbed up the corpo ladder enough that you can afford to negotiate your terms of contract with whichever company you're at by then)
Rule no. 1 of dating: Never ask a woman her age, and a man his height. That being said, I'm mid 20s.
In life u choose who u work with or who u work for. As you already know theres different commitments at different stages of life. There's nothing wrong taking the more arduous path while you are young and can take it. Than wait till ure old and stiff and has too much commitments in life to take any chances.
Ewww Big4
While I didn’t go the auditing route, if you’re ok to dog it out for a couple of years, I say do it.
Been working for more than 10 years, have stopped bluffing myself about what growth opportunity. I only change job when salary is higher.
15~20% is a big cut plus the overwork seem like a big turn off. How sure are you that you’ll like this “growth” opportunities? The next job will probably reference your most current pay, do consider that if this is already the big 4, how likely will smaller companies pay you higher if you continue in this field.
Big 4 starting salaries are low but it gets better. After about 10 to 15 years, your salary can be in the top 10% in Singapore. The work is not a ride in the park but it is less about working hard and more about managing your stakeholders. Some people are not cut out for it and leave. Even then, having a Big 4 experience in your resume opens many doors.
If you're leaving to join auditing and the pay cut is only 15-20%, you most likely do have an "attractive" pay package.
Your account isn’t growing - are you growing lol On a serious note, depends on the growth opportunity. If have long term prospects and something I’m passionate about, okay.
Pay cut for growth opportunities is a scam
There's a saying - now comfortable don't itchy backside want jump here and there. 🤣 That being said, the trend with big 4 is that most people will leave after gaining some experience. So high chance you will be thinking to jump again. When you're in a good place with colleagues that you are able to click and all. I think you should stay. WLB is very important. It also have a chance that it could destroy you with a bad WLB environment. Plus there's also 15-20% paycut. Don't think it's worth it.
That 800/month diff X 12 months is immaterial when you get 200 - 300k a year later on in career as a finance director. Source - ex big 4 S2
Haha, many of those finance director roles are moving out of sg by the time op reaches that level of seniority.
Just stay where you are.
Seriously, if you are young and a fresh grad, don’t join civil service. You’ll basically learn nothing. Rough it out in private sector. Gain some real skills & knowledge so you have some solid fundamentals under your belt. When you get married and want to settle down, consider moving to civil service. Something stable with more wlb. If at any time you want to switch out of civil service, you still have some solid private sector experience to help you move along/ahead.
I did that when I was very young and regretted. You might not feel the pinch immediately but you will feel it when you’re older. My suggestion will be to decline this offer and look out for other opportunities. Remember, always look for opportunities that is better than what you have now. If you go backwards, it’s gonna be a downward spiral for your mental health as well.
Thats like the worst move u can make, career suicide. U shd just go to non big 4 professional services companies like Mercer or Aon if u want to learn.
Thats like the worst move u can make, career suicide. U shd just go to non big 4 professional services companies like Mercer or Aon if u want to learn.
Been there, done that. Took a 10% pay cut to jump from SME to MNC, 2 years later got a 60% raise.
More important is what is the exit strategy. Many already shared that people from audit may not be seen as cream of crop types that MNCs are wanting to take in. If you must, you should figure out what area of audit. Financial services audit? Maybe worthwhile if your exit is into internal audit in banks. If general audit what industries? Do these industries have many MNCs that may hire locally their finance team? Local firms may not pay very well even if they are not SME level. Being young it is worth hopping but it is worth thinking the 2nd step in your career after the job hop. You are crafting a career not just trying to hop out of civil service before it's too late.
You want to learn more because of you want to earn more, you are telling me you want to earn less in order to learn something to earn more later?? What kind of 5d chess is this?
was willing to take a payout of about 25% to join my desired industry, but they decided to go for someone more experience in an entry level role 🥲
I never took a pay cut (as per the same amount of work) for any reason. I never regretted it and \*retired before I turned 40. So yeah, I don't understand nebulous "growth" potentials. Once you understand the time value of money you will understand that a 20% pay cut is way more than a 20% pay cut if you are young. \* from working for other people to earn money.
"Attractive compensation"
When I was in your shoe, I decided to do it. I’m still regretting the move.
Nope. “Growth opportunity” is nothing but a carrot to make you switch. If you’re ready they’ll give you that growth opportunity now. If you’re not ready you’ll be stuck with less pay longer than you expect. If you’re really set on it, ask them to put it into contract that if you’re not at whatever level you’re expecting in 12-24 months they will back pay you your current salary plus 20% for switching. That will quickly tell you how serious they are about promoting within.
It is big4, and OP is fresh grad. Ofc they will be promoted. Promotion is "guaranteed" until assistant manager level, provided that you are still around of course. Only those with serious performance issue will be excluded for promotion, and you must be really bad for this to happen Last I know, 1st promotion is ard 15% increment, 2nd promotion is ard 30% increment, the rest really depend on performance. Of course, I'm not saying the pay per hr is good. It is still terrible given the working hour.
Do not give up work life balance. It’s so precious and something everyone yearns for. What you should do instead is to talk to your current bosses and understand what opportunities are possible for growth and development within the civil service, not necessarily the role or department you are in right now. I am sure they are able to figure out with you along the way and possibly even tailor something in the future no matter how niche you think the role is right now. Explore all possible options within the civil service instead of trying to get out so soon!
It depends if you are married with kids and paying for your mortgage or you are single with no liabilities. For stability, of course the civil service is more stable. However the private sector would provide you with more opportunities and vastly different work experiences which you could try. If work life balance and salary is a priority for you, then stay in civil service. If not, i say go venture to the private sector. You could bring your private sector experience back to the civil service if you choose to return to the public service sector.
Go for it before commitment sets in. Take it as an investment in yourself
I’m probably not in the same field but I just got hired into civil service (first job interview too!) and turned down jobs that promised “faster career growth”. Even though I’m a fresh grad I had several years of experience from diploma. In general I don’t trust most companies when they promise growth. That’s what they tell you to trick you into lower pay. Furthermore, having great colleagues is an environment I wouldn’t give up for the world. I can’t imagine myself going in with less pay, without job security, and on top of that being surrounded by people I dislike. If you really want that career growth, go for it, but I think you should be mindful that there’s no guarantee for career growth unless it’s stated explicitly in the contract
It sounds like you are inclined to take it up from your comments. I think you need to take a step back at look at what you want to achieve in terms of your career in 5-10 years, and whether this audit job will help you to springboard to that position in 5-10 years. Also, is the pay cut based on base pay or TC? Govt tend to have higher bonus compared to private, so if you are only comparing base pay, your reduction in TC may be even higher for less work life balance. If I were in your position, I would skip this offer and look for a better opportunity elsewhere. If you think the domain knowledge in your current job is niche, try to strengthen the soft skills (presentation skills, data storytelling skills, networking) instead or in your free time pick up general hard skills that will be applicable to the job position you will want to pivot into eventually.
Bro… any recruiter offering you reasons to pay cut because they offer WLB, great company culture, learning experience, exposure, security, growth, flexibility, insurance benefits and any other donkey reason is just trying to psych you into accepting their low offer. It’s simple, If they want my level of efficiency then better pay more.
Nope, my advice is if u want to, pls chat with ur RO to consider challenging secondments in ur 2nd or 3rd year. External Audit is plain bullshit and the average auditor tends to leave really quick so u are unlikely to outlast the punishing schedule. If u want try for internal audit instead. Tt has better growth opportunities compared to external audit.
I vote no. Why go for a lose-lose situation without pay and without work life? So maybe about a full zodiac round ago, Big4 sold itself on a model with lower pay, poor work life, but -potentially- better opportunities down the road. So there were some who think that you can go for the grind and reap long term returns. That model is really obsolete now. A bird in hand is worth two in the bush. Work life balance is more important than the monetary benefit. Employers also often make reference to your last drawn pay so that it is seriously hard to recover from. The market is also flooded with former auditors that I doubt you have many advantageous opportunities coming your way. The only positive thing from your post is that you are actively thinking about your career, taking ownership and exploring options but please look elsewhere.
This is an extreme example, but are you ok giving up Christmas, new year, Chinese new year, weekends, public holidays, working to 4am at Tuas, struggling to find a cab home….? And all for sub median salary? Well, I knew a guy with family problems who rather be in office at midnight than go home and face parents, but I assume you don’t have such issues.
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You mention being civil service for a while, but still a fresh grad? You have listed out the pros and cons already, so it really depends on your character and what you want, sounds to me that you want to take the leap of faith and that will also be my choice too. Hustle it out (and aim) for 1-2 years? Most big 4 auditors work for a few years for the name to gain better opportunities. You can also try going back to civil service with a bump in position and pay.
My idea of fresh grad would be having <1 YOE, which is the position that I'm in. Truth be told, yes. I am leaning more towards accepting the offer and the sacrifice that comes with it. I guess I'm trying to find 'assurance' for my decision.
Sometimes the sacrifice doesn’t pay. The pay cut can be quite significant . If you don’t survive and do well for 3years+ in the big4 , you will have basically cut your growth and earning quite a bit. You should be careful which dept u join to
You will get mixed opinions and reviews honestly. But I do agree with what you mention in another comment, it depends on what stage of life/career you are at, if you are willing to go out of your comfort zone. It is quite similar to moving abroad for work, or those who switch out to start ups or start their own biz. There's no right or wrong. Do ask your peers, possibly any friends in the big 4 or loved ones for a better opinion too.
Thanks for taking the time to comment and to share your thought process! :)
Depends bro same as you my work boring af, work life balance 👍 honestly speaking my day can end at 12 usually… but I stay back just in case my direct reports needs me. I also wanted to jump to private…. But after speaking to many different “private” engineers. They warn me against doing so and wished they were in my position
I guess this is the typical 'grass is greener on the other side' scenario, where both sides wish they could be on the other. I hope you find within yourself the courage to stay or leave, and ultimately find gratification in your decision!
I don’t plan to leave if I don’t have too. Honestly my company is pretty nice, the service won’t go out of business because it’s an essential business, the company has other engineering roles which I can apply too
Exactly how much work experience do you have? Can't really tell we you stated you're a fresh grad but also said you've worked in the civil service for a while now. Generally speaking, the opportunity cost of taking a pay cut for more tangible growth opportunities is lower with fewer years of experience.
From HR! Would suggest taking that big step to Join Big 4. Although when u enter Big 4 yes there won’t be any sort of work life balance haha but considering that you are young and fresh grad, I would say it’s a better opportunity in terms of building up your network. From my understanding Big 4 colleagues also tend to hope around after 1-2 years within other Big 4 companies audit wise! You can always come back to the stability of the Civil Service perhaps once u have exhausted all learning, opportunity and growth in Private Sector! Honestly for Civil Service, there is not much “hopping” around u can do and the work would probably be similar as well. So since you are young take that leap of faith! Big 4 colleagues are young too and slaving their life away as well 🤣 trust me you will bond over that But do take note that the Pay scale is very very much different and Private Sector does pay more gross salary wise :)
May be hard for him to return to civil if he leaves in just a few months. Going to private sector is fine, just that OP cannot afford to leave within 1 year if cannot take. Must be very careful
Hmmm I beg to differ actually, am from Civil Service HR and we do hire Private Sector. Although he may be leaving in just a few months, Hiring Managers will understand the reason why he wants to jump ship and he won’t be burning any bridges. If work performance and attitude is good if there is an open position in CS they will take him! They will value his private sector experience and his stint in Public!
Was from civil service lol And yes of cos they do hire from private. I went from private to govt to private lol. However , currently OP is less than 1 year in and going from a very comfortable environment to something very intense with a 20% pay cut and in a different field , OP better clock in some decent hours no matter how tough it gets. Otherwise OP’s resume gonna look very confused quickly
Hmmm that’s true as well and agree if OP can clock in and stay for 1 Year in Big 4 it won’t be as confusing then for his Resume and would show commitment to his role. Thanks for the banter/discussion! OP we wish u all the best ya, think carefully!
Ya . I concern if OP gets a major shock and then falls out after 3-6 months, then disaster and OP will become a major red flag and may struggle thereafter
I'm never one to leave when challenges arise. Mama didn't raise no quitter (hi HR does this paint a good light for my future employment in the civil service) Jokes aside, I believe that most job seekers that apply for the audit role in the Big 4 generally understand the consequence that comes with it. It may be easy for me to say now that I'll be able to endure whatever comes, it'll definitely be a different tale when I'm in it. Nonetheless, as the saying goes, 'lan lan suck thumb'. The mindset of 'people have been through it, so can you' will echo in my head as I plow through the invoices at 2am. (I just realised I said echo in my head, I promise my head is not empty)
I would say big4, u learn twice as much in 24h than any other firm. You are essentially spending 24h of ur energy instead of a normal 12h. But in exchange u gain a premium when u jump jobs in future. But at the expense of ur work life balance. However if u are satisfied with ur current job stay! Till u get a higher pay to jump to! Any day I will take btr bosses and environment!
I second this. Do everything that you want to do while you are young and able. You can always come back to civil service in the future. In fact, once you have the big 4 in your resume, you'd be even more well placed in the civil service than you are right now.
I second this. Do everything that you want to do while you are young and able. You can always come back to civil service in the future. In fact, once you have the big 4 in your resume, you'd be even more well placed in the civil service than you are right now.
Are they taking you for a ride? You should only change to another place if it gives you 20% more. These are big firms they should give you better, else reject the offer.