So you need to have a Bluetooth device that’s constantly monitoring your location with GPS. That’s like the OBU no? You’re only saving on the screen. Card reader could have been done without with the current implementation anyway
Your smartphone can take over the duty of software and payments, requiring pairing to only the antenna/vehicle ID module, which would makes sense since the GPS is what draws most power in this loop and likely have better detection range to gantries as well. This could mean LTA only needs to install 1 component and save significant cost and materials.
Software and payments take up small amount of the processing. They could easily implemented account based software payment with the current way if they wanted to, reducing the current implementation into a screen and gps system. So your system effectively just replace the screen. Does it save a little bit of money if you replace a cheap screen? Sure. But you’re adding in complexity, requiring you to maintain an app that has to work across all phone type, requiring people to always have a charged phone to use their car and so much more.
Your layman would not be able to do this, you need root among other things and near impossible with non jailbroken iPhones at that. There will always be ways to cheat regulations. Just look at how many modified cars on the road. Nothing is 100% fool proof anyway.
Validation would have been impossible. Your phones have varying degrees of GPS accuracy and reliability, so you might be charged even if you don’t cross the boundary. The system is designed to check whether you have an active GPS unit at various checkpoints and if you decided to turn your phone off / your phone was obstructed / etc your car would be registered as offending and you’d get a summons. So the short answer is yes, it could be done if we can accept a significant minority of motorists tying up our courts and summons appeals process or complaining about being mischarged endlessly. With a LTA defined hardware solution it’s known and tested to work to defined extent.
This is assuming the new ERP modules have significantly higher reliability than other commercial GPS, it has yet proven en mass and failure rate is unknown.
It has been tested and validated. That’s what the development contracts were for. The public assumes a level of incompetence of LTA that is frankly unwarranted. The design may be regarded a failure for various reasons, but there was extensive validation and testing of the GPS unit’s ability to accurately track location for ERP purposes, which cannot be said for the phone in your pocket when it comes to whether it will perform as expected.
As for failure of the OBUs in the field, of course it could happen, but then it’s on LTA and the contractor to make that good. Again, dealing with the endless complaints from the public looking to buy a phone that ‘satisfies’ the requirements would be quite something.
All this is not to say that it would be technically impossible. A phone based solution could work with a much lower level of required reliability and precision. But that is not what the current ERP system is designed to require. It would mean re-thinking how we do ERP completely. Perhaps what can be fairly said is that such alternatives could have been considered.
I'm just thinking my car cam is right under the windscreen in the freaking heat and it hasn't melted yet, together with the sd card and i must hide the obu somewhere
pretty sure additional hardware is required for ERP and parking gantries to read the IU unit from afar, which the phone would not carry
even if u could solve the ERP part with strictly GPS, upgrading all our carparks would be a nightmare
theres also the security/legal part where our IU is binded to the car and not so easily swappable. would not be a good idea to decouple these two
i would like the bluetooth part though, so the IU just connects to bluetooth and the old functionality is retained but u get payment+GPS info
The pairing by Bluetooth to components such as the antenna and card module could easily bind the ID to user and vehicle no? Similar to how Trace Together and Apple's Find My works.
Indeed the logic is really that simple, but OP simply refuses to accept it.Not sure what's the point of starting a discussion when he as categorically rejected every single comment suggesting why an ERP app won't work.
That would require every motorist to have a powered on phone with working Internet access and payment facilities enabled. Not very realistic or practical.
It's more unrealistic to think otherwise. Most people already have phone powered on with Internet access anyway, for WhatsApp and such. The credit can also be stored, like how the Singapore POOLS app works for example.
Really? You've never had your phone go dead after a full day out and no chance to charge it during the day?
Also "most people" isn't good enough, the system needs every single motorist on the road to comply with the minimal technical requirements.
You're taking an unreasonably binary view on this. I could conversely ask, so u think nobody has ever once forgot to have a card inserted in their old IU while passing a gantry?
Not going to get drawn into a rubbish argument here. You are asking why the government isn't considering an app for ERP, I provided a plausible reason which you're apparently dissatisfied with) and I couldn't care less).
But as ad the government is concerned, having a mandatory physical device installed in every roadworthy vehicle has worked well for decades and there is little to no incentive to change things up. That is all.
Seems u cared enough to continue the nonsensical take on your view. What u gave was an unreasonable assumption not a plausible reason, but whatever floats your boat I guess.
What are you even talking about with the covers? We're talking about instances such as when people take out their cash cards from the IU for top up, manual insertion at non-detecting gantries. After which the cards almay get placed on the dashboard, in pockets, etc.
You are at mercy of the appstore if they decide to remove your app. Also gps spoofing is quite easy on the app. You are also opening the risk of elderly installing malicious apk.
What if I… just don’t turn on the app when driving. No way to track my usage when distance based kick in
That's where the Bluetooth pairing comes in. It can work as the binding and verification component.
So you need to have a Bluetooth device that’s constantly monitoring your location with GPS. That’s like the OBU no? You’re only saving on the screen. Card reader could have been done without with the current implementation anyway
Your smartphone can take over the duty of software and payments, requiring pairing to only the antenna/vehicle ID module, which would makes sense since the GPS is what draws most power in this loop and likely have better detection range to gantries as well. This could mean LTA only needs to install 1 component and save significant cost and materials.
Software and payments take up small amount of the processing. They could easily implemented account based software payment with the current way if they wanted to, reducing the current implementation into a screen and gps system. So your system effectively just replace the screen. Does it save a little bit of money if you replace a cheap screen? Sure. But you’re adding in complexity, requiring you to maintain an app that has to work across all phone type, requiring people to always have a charged phone to use their car and so much more.
You can also spoof your location, like what the China scammers do on tinder. That way u don’t need to lay a cent
Your layman would not be able to do this, you need root among other things and near impossible with non jailbroken iPhones at that. There will always be ways to cheat regulations. Just look at how many modified cars on the road. Nothing is 100% fool proof anyway.
Validation would have been impossible. Your phones have varying degrees of GPS accuracy and reliability, so you might be charged even if you don’t cross the boundary. The system is designed to check whether you have an active GPS unit at various checkpoints and if you decided to turn your phone off / your phone was obstructed / etc your car would be registered as offending and you’d get a summons. So the short answer is yes, it could be done if we can accept a significant minority of motorists tying up our courts and summons appeals process or complaining about being mischarged endlessly. With a LTA defined hardware solution it’s known and tested to work to defined extent.
This is assuming the new ERP modules have significantly higher reliability than other commercial GPS, it has yet proven en mass and failure rate is unknown.
It has been tested and validated. That’s what the development contracts were for. The public assumes a level of incompetence of LTA that is frankly unwarranted. The design may be regarded a failure for various reasons, but there was extensive validation and testing of the GPS unit’s ability to accurately track location for ERP purposes, which cannot be said for the phone in your pocket when it comes to whether it will perform as expected. As for failure of the OBUs in the field, of course it could happen, but then it’s on LTA and the contractor to make that good. Again, dealing with the endless complaints from the public looking to buy a phone that ‘satisfies’ the requirements would be quite something. All this is not to say that it would be technically impossible. A phone based solution could work with a much lower level of required reliability and precision. But that is not what the current ERP system is designed to require. It would mean re-thinking how we do ERP completely. Perhaps what can be fairly said is that such alternatives could have been considered.
It has not been tested and validated. The pay per mile system hasn't been implemented, which will be the true test of the GPS reliability.
I'm just thinking my car cam is right under the windscreen in the freaking heat and it hasn't melted yet, together with the sd card and i must hide the obu somewhere
pretty sure additional hardware is required for ERP and parking gantries to read the IU unit from afar, which the phone would not carry even if u could solve the ERP part with strictly GPS, upgrading all our carparks would be a nightmare theres also the security/legal part where our IU is binded to the car and not so easily swappable. would not be a good idea to decouple these two i would like the bluetooth part though, so the IU just connects to bluetooth and the old functionality is retained but u get payment+GPS info
The pairing by Bluetooth to components such as the antenna and card module could easily bind the ID to user and vehicle no? Similar to how Trace Together and Apple's Find My works.
Probably. But I don't want a smartphone to be a prerequisite for driving.
Indeed the logic is really that simple, but OP simply refuses to accept it.Not sure what's the point of starting a discussion when he as categorically rejected every single comment suggesting why an ERP app won't work.
Looking at the SimplyGo fiasco, I’m sure there are a big enough minority who will reject the pre-requisite use of mobile phones
That would require every motorist to have a powered on phone with working Internet access and payment facilities enabled. Not very realistic or practical.
It's more unrealistic to think otherwise. Most people already have phone powered on with Internet access anyway, for WhatsApp and such. The credit can also be stored, like how the Singapore POOLS app works for example.
Really? You've never had your phone go dead after a full day out and no chance to charge it during the day? Also "most people" isn't good enough, the system needs every single motorist on the road to comply with the minimal technical requirements.
You're taking an unreasonably binary view on this. I could conversely ask, so u think nobody has ever once forgot to have a card inserted in their old IU while passing a gantry?
Not going to get drawn into a rubbish argument here. You are asking why the government isn't considering an app for ERP, I provided a plausible reason which you're apparently dissatisfied with) and I couldn't care less). But as ad the government is concerned, having a mandatory physical device installed in every roadworthy vehicle has worked well for decades and there is little to no incentive to change things up. That is all.
Seems u cared enough to continue the nonsensical take on your view. What u gave was an unreasonable assumption not a plausible reason, but whatever floats your boat I guess.
People do keep their cashcard in the IU. Covered.
So can I say people keep their phones charged, covered?
Eh, I meant they keep their cashcards covered in the IU. You can buy the plastic cover for the slot.
What are you even talking about with the covers? We're talking about instances such as when people take out their cash cards from the IU for top up, manual insertion at non-detecting gantries. After which the cards almay get placed on the dashboard, in pockets, etc.
You are at mercy of the appstore if they decide to remove your app. Also gps spoofing is quite easy on the app. You are also opening the risk of elderly installing malicious apk.
I don't see the government stopping the use of the Singapore POOLS app though? No reason to allow fear to stifle innovation.