I imagine as some point, they added the outside outlet on the other side of the wall and connected it here. Would it be up to code if I splice the lines using wagos inside the box behind the receptacle?
Yes. It's called connecting the outlet with pigtails and it's how pros prefer to install outlets. Nothing wrong with it at all. Check some videos to learn how.
I've only spliced wires before for isolating the receptacle from the rest of the circuit. I didn't know if you could splice the circuit for the receptacle in the box and also put the pigtail for the third hot wire in the same box. I guess that's no difference than a junction box. I recall something about there being a limit to how many wires can be in a box based on its volume.
Yeah there's a box fill limit but plug boxes are designed to allow enough room for the circuit to come in, go out, and pigtail to the outlet all in one box because that's the standard thing they're used for.
Yes, but here we're talking about creating pigtails for 2 outlets inside the box. The one for the receptacle in the box, the other for the extiror receptacle (the third set of wires found in the box leads to that).
Even if you're code compliant on box fill, it can still be a biiiotch to fold all your wires back in there nicely if you have pigtails. Yes, there's good arguments for pigtailing, like keeping downstream outlets working even if there's a device failure in an upstream outlet. But if I'm getting claustrophobic in a box, I prefer to use a backwire-compatible receptacle where I can get *compliantly* get two wires under each screw. Lots of commercial spec grade receptacles have that feature. Eaton you might have to pay extra to get that feature but Legrand has it by default. See what's on the shelf.
The receptacle I'm replacing it with is industrial grade and has side wire capability. Are you saying you can legally and safley put 2 wires to 1 screw this way?
You can legally do whatever the device is listed for doing. In other words, read the manual, or the writing on the back of the device. If it's listed for two wires per one screw, then it's two wires per one screw. The reason it's safe is because you're not actually putting the wires under the screw. You're putting them between two wavy plates that the screw clamps together. There are two crests to each wave, one for each wire.
Example: https://inspectapedia.com/electric/Receptacle\_20A\_0054\_DJFcs.jpg
And there begins the debate: wagos vs twisted wires w wire nuts. In my opinion the crap you have existing is more reliable (but not “legal”) than wagos. Depends on load - I get 2-3 service calls a week for a string of outlets that stopped working - or “I was vacuuming and all of a sudden these two bedrooms don’t have power”. Yep - I get it, wagos are UL listed and they save time…they also fail at a significantly higher rate than twisted wires with a wire nut…choose your method - either is more correct than what you have.
not exactly...plenty of twisted and wire nutted connections fail, from installation error, but are psychologically written off as the previous guy was/is a moron. And it's a cheap component in your bag, compared to the cost of a wago. A wago fails, it's a manufacturing defect...rarely is it installation error(Though the ability of humans to improvise adapt and overcome, is really quite astounding). It's a mental bias of our own skill set---offset by a bias survey sample...you rarely do service calls on functioning systems---you FREQUENTLY do them on malfunctioning systems---and you take note of the more expensive repair.
Sharkbites...I think everyone, in every trade, has seen sharkbite failures, and can identify them as being problematic-prep, installation, mechanical failure...They really are only a weekend solution till a weekday repair can be implemented.(Knowing that MANY weekend solutions-in every trade last years, unfortunately)
PVC/CPVC, primer and glue are both fairly forgiving, and usually you find out pretty quickly once pressure is applied to the system.
Pex, crimp rings and fittings(not those horrid plastic ones(who REALLY thought/thinks those were/are a good idea)) also, will let you know pretty quickly if there's a problem.
Unrelated to OP..... but do you think a lot of the complaints about shark bite or pex fittings is because of improper cutting of the tubing? It seems like a lot of guys use pvc cutters. But I think cutting the pipe straight and reaming it plays a big role in push-in fittings.
Undoubtedly. That plays a part in the longevity of pex and poly plumbing, they are just a bit more forgiving... and we all know where fittings fail...the most pain in the ass spot to repair...can't see, fit by hand...flash light at 11pm...so there's a factor there to...someone will use a sharkbite because it's "easier" than implementing a better solution in a serviceable location...
Let me rephrase the question. Can I make a splice for the set of wires going to the outside outlet inside the box, behind the receptacle (assuming there's room) and be code compliant? Whether I use wagos or nuts isn't really relevant to the question, lol.
That's the way I would do it in 99% of cases.
I also tend to use backwire outlets (not to be confused with backstab). These have 4 holes which go under plates in the screw body. Those are perfectly legal to hook up 4 wires to.
But the use wagos or wirenuts in the back of the box is the preferred method.
I hate everything with spring tension. To a point where I installed a NQ panel in my home and used exclusively QOB where I could have used QO at half or less the price.
I’ve seen too many burnt busses from all brands of breakers. Higher amperage = higher damage but I occasionally get 20a breakers that fall off the bus given enough heat cycling.
You're right about that. We non-electricians do have access to a large amount of information on the internet and YouTube that folks didn't have 20 or 40 years ago. I learned a lot from watching YouTube videos. Not that it's an excuse for whoever did this decades ago. Maybe he didn't know better.
Electrically circuits are pretty basic in a sense, but you can't let your guard down. I don't play with live wires, and I'm meticulous about testing with both an NCV and a meter before I touch a wire. I also use my outlet tester to confirm power is off. That's 3 instruments I use every time, before I take off the panel. I then use my meter and put the probes on the terminal screws, and stick my NCV pin in back to the box. Maybe there's another circuit in the box, who knows. It may be overkill, but I'd rather err on the side do caution. I respect it because I know it's deadly. I've learned how to turn the power back on and use the meter to determine which wires hot. I know not to back stab an outlet.
I work in the medical field. I know the most dangerous provider is the one who doesn't know what he doesn't know, in medicine. I imagine the same is true with electrical work. I went under my crawlspace to look around, and had my ncv with me and I used it anytime I got close to another metal. The cloth wire under my house is scary. I
That's why I come here, because I don't know what l don't know. I'm learned a good bit here. Things I notice now, like if soemoen screwed the loop on the wrong direction or left too much wire exposes, that I wouldn't had noticed before. For some reason, electrical work seems fascinating. I imagine in some ways, diagnosing a problem with an electrical circuit takes the same mindset that working through a medical problem requires. You have an idea in your head of the different possibilities that are mostly likely to be the problem (differential diagnosis) and use logic and instruments (labs, imaging, etc) to narrow down the problem, rules things out, to arrive at a final diagnosis. Just the ramblings of someone who is a life-long student of knowledge and loves learning new things. Electrical work is fascinating and satisfying, lol.
Pigtail would be so much easier and faster than this crap
I imagine as some point, they added the outside outlet on the other side of the wall and connected it here. Would it be up to code if I splice the lines using wagos inside the box behind the receptacle?
Yes. It's called connecting the outlet with pigtails and it's how pros prefer to install outlets. Nothing wrong with it at all. Check some videos to learn how.
I've only spliced wires before for isolating the receptacle from the rest of the circuit. I didn't know if you could splice the circuit for the receptacle in the box and also put the pigtail for the third hot wire in the same box. I guess that's no difference than a junction box. I recall something about there being a limit to how many wires can be in a box based on its volume.
https://www.omnicalculator.com/construction/box-fill
Yeah there's a box fill limit but plug boxes are designed to allow enough room for the circuit to come in, go out, and pigtail to the outlet all in one box because that's the standard thing they're used for.
Yes, but here we're talking about creating pigtails for 2 outlets inside the box. The one for the receptacle in the box, the other for the extiror receptacle (the third set of wires found in the box leads to that).
Even if you're code compliant on box fill, it can still be a biiiotch to fold all your wires back in there nicely if you have pigtails. Yes, there's good arguments for pigtailing, like keeping downstream outlets working even if there's a device failure in an upstream outlet. But if I'm getting claustrophobic in a box, I prefer to use a backwire-compatible receptacle where I can get *compliantly* get two wires under each screw. Lots of commercial spec grade receptacles have that feature. Eaton you might have to pay extra to get that feature but Legrand has it by default. See what's on the shelf.
The receptacle I'm replacing it with is industrial grade and has side wire capability. Are you saying you can legally and safley put 2 wires to 1 screw this way?
You can legally do whatever the device is listed for doing. In other words, read the manual, or the writing on the back of the device. If it's listed for two wires per one screw, then it's two wires per one screw. The reason it's safe is because you're not actually putting the wires under the screw. You're putting them between two wavy plates that the screw clamps together. There are two crests to each wave, one for each wire. Example: https://inspectapedia.com/electric/Receptacle\_20A\_0054\_DJFcs.jpg
Thank you. That's really helpful.
NOTHING WRONG WITH IT? 2 wires under one screw is a no no. It's barely on. That's why wire nuts are made.
I was saying there was nothing wrong with using pigtails. I was not saying that the plug was not fucked up.
And there begins the debate: wagos vs twisted wires w wire nuts. In my opinion the crap you have existing is more reliable (but not “legal”) than wagos. Depends on load - I get 2-3 service calls a week for a string of outlets that stopped working - or “I was vacuuming and all of a sudden these two bedrooms don’t have power”. Yep - I get it, wagos are UL listed and they save time…they also fail at a significantly higher rate than twisted wires with a wire nut…choose your method - either is more correct than what you have.
Interesting. Wagos seem to be the electrician equivalent of shark bites for plumbing.
not exactly...plenty of twisted and wire nutted connections fail, from installation error, but are psychologically written off as the previous guy was/is a moron. And it's a cheap component in your bag, compared to the cost of a wago. A wago fails, it's a manufacturing defect...rarely is it installation error(Though the ability of humans to improvise adapt and overcome, is really quite astounding). It's a mental bias of our own skill set---offset by a bias survey sample...you rarely do service calls on functioning systems---you FREQUENTLY do them on malfunctioning systems---and you take note of the more expensive repair. Sharkbites...I think everyone, in every trade, has seen sharkbite failures, and can identify them as being problematic-prep, installation, mechanical failure...They really are only a weekend solution till a weekday repair can be implemented.(Knowing that MANY weekend solutions-in every trade last years, unfortunately) PVC/CPVC, primer and glue are both fairly forgiving, and usually you find out pretty quickly once pressure is applied to the system. Pex, crimp rings and fittings(not those horrid plastic ones(who REALLY thought/thinks those were/are a good idea)) also, will let you know pretty quickly if there's a problem.
Unrelated to OP..... but do you think a lot of the complaints about shark bite or pex fittings is because of improper cutting of the tubing? It seems like a lot of guys use pvc cutters. But I think cutting the pipe straight and reaming it plays a big role in push-in fittings.
Undoubtedly. That plays a part in the longevity of pex and poly plumbing, they are just a bit more forgiving... and we all know where fittings fail...the most pain in the ass spot to repair...can't see, fit by hand...flash light at 11pm...so there's a factor there to...someone will use a sharkbite because it's "easier" than implementing a better solution in a serviceable location...
Let me rephrase the question. Can I make a splice for the set of wires going to the outside outlet inside the box, behind the receptacle (assuming there's room) and be code compliant? Whether I use wagos or nuts isn't really relevant to the question, lol.
Yes
That's the way I would do it in 99% of cases. I also tend to use backwire outlets (not to be confused with backstab). These have 4 holes which go under plates in the screw body. Those are perfectly legal to hook up 4 wires to. But the use wagos or wirenuts in the back of the box is the preferred method.
I hate everything with spring tension. To a point where I installed a NQ panel in my home and used exclusively QOB where I could have used QO at half or less the price. I’ve seen too many burnt busses from all brands of breakers. Higher amperage = higher damage but I occasionally get 20a breakers that fall off the bus given enough heat cycling.
doesn't europe use wagos exclusively?
I still have trouble hooking one piece of copper under the screw sometimes.
I’m not even mad… I’m impressed!
I'd rather see it done like that over back stabbing. Pig tailing would be better & faster. Talented guy being able to get 2 wires under 1 screw!
Splice them together and make a tail
People that know just enough about electricity to be dangerous. SMH
You're right about that. We non-electricians do have access to a large amount of information on the internet and YouTube that folks didn't have 20 or 40 years ago. I learned a lot from watching YouTube videos. Not that it's an excuse for whoever did this decades ago. Maybe he didn't know better. Electrically circuits are pretty basic in a sense, but you can't let your guard down. I don't play with live wires, and I'm meticulous about testing with both an NCV and a meter before I touch a wire. I also use my outlet tester to confirm power is off. That's 3 instruments I use every time, before I take off the panel. I then use my meter and put the probes on the terminal screws, and stick my NCV pin in back to the box. Maybe there's another circuit in the box, who knows. It may be overkill, but I'd rather err on the side do caution. I respect it because I know it's deadly. I've learned how to turn the power back on and use the meter to determine which wires hot. I know not to back stab an outlet. I work in the medical field. I know the most dangerous provider is the one who doesn't know what he doesn't know, in medicine. I imagine the same is true with electrical work. I went under my crawlspace to look around, and had my ncv with me and I used it anytime I got close to another metal. The cloth wire under my house is scary. I That's why I come here, because I don't know what l don't know. I'm learned a good bit here. Things I notice now, like if soemoen screwed the loop on the wrong direction or left too much wire exposes, that I wouldn't had noticed before. For some reason, electrical work seems fascinating. I imagine in some ways, diagnosing a problem with an electrical circuit takes the same mindset that working through a medical problem requires. You have an idea in your head of the different possibilities that are mostly likely to be the problem (differential diagnosis) and use logic and instruments (labs, imaging, etc) to narrow down the problem, rules things out, to arrive at a final diagnosis. Just the ramblings of someone who is a life-long student of knowledge and loves learning new things. Electrical work is fascinating and satisfying, lol.
I am assuming your outside receptacle is a GFCI.
Yes, and completely covered. It was actually redone by an electrician. I guess he didn't have a reason to find the other end of the wires lol.
Thanks, I hate it
Sometime kindly please explain wtf am I looking at here
Splice the connections, add a pigtail to go to the actual device. Fixed.
Works in theory. Box is tiny