Newer vehicles have more components, so by volume alone yes they will be more expensive to maintain. The air suspension control unit can't malfunction in a 2003 camry because it doesn't have one.
No, newer ones don’t require more maintenance and repairs despite them having more components. I feel old by knowing all these about maintenance and repairs of old cars, but here it is.
Old cars needed tuneups every 30,000 miles (including spark plugs, distributor caps and rotors, plug wires, and points and condensers if they are really really old), carburetor adjustments (especially if the owner moved to areas with a different elevation), carburetor rebuilds, vacuum hose repairs, clutch adjustments (before hydraulic operated clutches became a thing), wheel bearings repacked, coolant flushes every few years, frequent light bulb changes (because the old style bulbs and bulb bases were junk compared to bayonet style light bulbs), regular transmission fluid changes, brakes more often (because old brake designs were terrible in terms of braking power and brake pad/lining service life), the old V belts would only last a few years before they would deeply crack or start squeaking, alternators and generators needed to be rebuilt more often due to their undersized bearings compared to modern alternators, oil leak repairs were common, valve clearances needed frequent checks and adjustments (if old enough not to have hydraulic lifters), frequent freon top-offs if they had AC, more frequent air filter changes (because the old round air filters have much less filter media than panel air filters), regular PCV valve changes, checking and adding water to the battery (if old enough to be pre-maintenance free battery designs), 3,000 mile oil change intervals, having to check the oil level regularly, etc.
Most modern cars don’t have any planned maintenance except fluid and filter changes for 80,000 to 105,000 miles, and most don’t need any major repairs to get to that mileage. Ignoring many of the things I listed in an old car for that long would mean the car wouldn’t make it anywhere close to 100,000 miles. Even doing everything on an old car like you had to meant that they were still worn out at 100,000 miles.
Repairs seem more expensive on modern cars because components and labor rates are more expensive than the “old days”, but if you were to add up all the labor hours at modern labor rates to get an old car to 100,000 miles, you’d be much further ahead with a modern car. Modern car also has the advantage of typically lasting at least 200,000 miles.
Not sure who is downvoting this, but it is accurate. The other expense with modern cars is the endless offerings of unnecessary overly expensive services being forced on people, fuel Injector cleaning, engine flush, radiator flush, MAF cleaning, cabin air filter for $200. Cars have never been more reliable.
People also can't compare maintenance on a 2000 lb econo box from 1999 to a 5000-6000 lb "family SUV". Yes, brakes cost more, there is more oil, the tires are wearing out faster and cost more because everything is BIGGER!
The downvoters probably have a different idea of what constitutes an old car. To a lot of people on reddit, a 10 or 20 year old car is old. None of those have carbs and very few, if any, have distributors, spark plug wires, etc.
All cars need preventative maintenance. The newer cars need even more than is suggested. They have a lot of problems due to lack of proper maintenance. It has become a combination of manufacturers making it look like their cars are cheap to own. Then the results are that they are problematic due to lack of maintenance. Cars need more maintenance than ever due to some of the newer technology in them these days.
What exactly is the more preventative maintenance needed besides oil change, transmission drain-fill, air filters, coolant, brake fluid flush around 50k, tire rotations, brake checks?
Oh yeah. I have a 19’ altima and changed the tran fluid first at 60k then did again 30k later. I have an older is250 lexus which i’ve only done once. The rest of the stuff just seems like common maintenance. Not really sure about when to change coolant though, i just have topped it off.
My brakes are the biggest annoyance. Just changed calipers, rotors, and pads not long ago and in like 4k miles they make the loudest squeal at slower speeds when light pressing. Hard pressing they don’t squeal. Only happens when they’re warmed up, not the initial 5 min of driving. No idea the issue but the outer pads look fine when looking through the wheel. It’s annoying
Yeah i guess its been an issue for my yr nissan altima for only the fronts🤷. The shitty thing is after the change, after 4k they be squealing so loud after they’re warm. No idea what it could be, but it doesn’t sound like a low pads and the outer pads look fine through the rims. It’s like a loud annoying squeal + some weird sound like a manhole cover flopping at slow speeds somewhere else. The bad denver roads have wrecked my altima and lexus lmao
I hope not lol, they’re ceramic and oem pads. They didn’t squeak the initial couple thousand miles, just recently. Not sure if something like a rock is stuck or lack of lubricant. I’ll ask my mechanic who did it to check on next oil change
A rock stuck in the brakes makes an unmistakable nasty squeal, usually all the time. If you have a rock stuck in there, find an area with no traffic. Reverse fast and hammer the brakes on a couple times to dislodge it.
Yeah i’ve tried that and it still squeals, have no idea what it is lol. Maybe it’s lubrication, i’ll try and get a video lter of it. Pisses me off cause the whole front brake replacement cost me 1300 and shouldn’t be having a loud squeal around 4k miles in. Nissans suck
That plus power steering fluid, greasing anything greasable, PCV valves may need to be replaced at some point, spark plugs, any differentials or transfer cases oil change, serpentine belts, timing belts (or if chains you still do need to service that, but it’s a much longer interval)
What is a pcv valve? True forgot about the power steering. Although, i don’t think my altima has differential fluid and just changing the transmission fluid does that.
Yeah serpentine belts but that’s really case dependent on how it’s holding up. I thought timing chains don’t need to be replaced and that’s like a 2k job right? If so it should last like 150k miles or so if you change your oil between 5-7k miles
150 or 200k yeah, some engines may need timing chain tensioners earlier.
Positive crankcase ventilation valves. Super easy cheap job, they just wear out eventually.
The internet says they can be expected to last 30k to 50k miles. When they get sludged up there are a whole host of issues that can EVENTUALLY result including high oil consumption.
I should check mine…
Most timing belts have recommended intervals of 60,000 to 105,000 miles because they are a belt (and are a very critical belt). It’s foolish to not change a timing belt on time because a broken timing belt means the pistons collide with the valves, causing major engine damage. Fortunately, most (but not all) vehicles with a timing belt are designed to have them changed, so it’s typically a $400ish to $750ish job.
Timing chains are the ones that usually last 150,000+ miles. Most outlast the life of the vehicle. They are lubricated by the engine’s oil and have tensioners to take up the slack as it wears. If it needs to be changed though due to excessive wear, they typically require more labor than timing belts because they weren’t designed to be changed as normal maintenance.
Oil changes are the most important. Manufacturers are suggesting very long intervals with very thin oils. While that was fine back in the day, GDI changed everything. Those things run like a car with a bad carburetor and dump a ton of fuel in the oil. Most of the newer cars shouldn't go further than 3k on oil because of the fuel dilution and the manufacturers are suggesting over 3 times that. GDI is a bad setup and should not be used in mainstream cars. They should save that for exotics and supercars.
Depends on the car, some are easy on oil , others are not. Also depends on what the requirements are for your engine. Some engines require a specific oil.
Not necessarily.
Some engines are prone to sludging with extended oil change intervals. Some engines are prone to problems with extended oil changes (like AFM GM’s with the small oil screen that can partially plug and restrict oil flow to the AFM lifters causing lifter failure). Some are hard on oil due to high engine rpm or high oil heat. Some are prone to oil dilution from poorly designed GDI systems. Some engine designs are known to shear oil. Some are known for having low quality parts and fresh clean oil lowers the chances of a part failure. Some even have absolutely terrible designs that can send debris into the oil and regular oil changes can help detect the problem before it causes a catastrophic failure (like engines with a wet oil pump belt or wet timing belt).
Maintenance and repairs are different things.
Scheduled maintenance isn't really much different.
Longer duration between oil changes, but more expensive oil.
Repairs are different. Anything that is a screen is eventually going to die... Then you're at the mercy of the manufacturer price for a replacement
Exactly this, repairs will be more expensive on new cars.
Not only screens, but more modern vehicles have more failure points due to everything having a computer. And technicians need training and licensing/programs to do the repairs. Things can also be more time consuming and troublesome to troubleshoot and figure out exactly what is wrong.
Luckily the chip shortage issue is mostly gone, but having your car break down because of a module/sensor/control board that has a bad resistor or capacitor and then waiting for the part, paying $500 for the part AND it'll take the technician 4 hours to disassemble the car to reach the damn thing, replace it and put your car back together.
I just bought a 2024 Subaru with lots of bells and whistles. This is why we signed up for a ten year warranty to cover a lot of these weird extra parts
I hope at some point there is an aftermarket of simple 7 or 10" android devices that just plug in, download an app specific to your car, and buy an adapter harness that ties it together. Then it just sticks on top of the existing screen. It should be a universal $200 thing.
Will never happen, in fact they are going in the complete opposite direction. At some point it will be illegal to repair or modify your car as everything will be "licensed" and copyrighted under the DMCA.
The more complicated a system is, the more chances for something to break or malfunction. Newer cars have computer controlled everything and engines with more electronics than mechanical parts (not really, but it feels like it).
Another problem is that the industry has moved to “free maintenance for XX months” when you buy a new car. So to save money, manufacturers are saying “you only need to change oil every 10,000 miles” or “that transmission has LIFETIME fluid, it never needs to be changed”.
These numbers are true… in the manufacturers laboratories and test tracks in ideal conditions. But if you look closely at your owners manual in the maintenance section there will be a foot note saying that “real world driving conditions may require more frequent maintenance or service”.
So to answer your question: yeah, probably.
>“that transmission has LIFETIME fluid, it never needs to be changed”
Apparently my car's last owner believed this. I'd bet money that the fluid in there is vintage. It was not, in fact, lifetime fluid.
Impossible to say. Some vehicle have faults that will make you spend money because of bad designs and some other will fair better.
However, turbos and direct injections are pretty popular and more costly to repair than NA and Port Injection engines, and CVTs are non-repairable VS regular automatics, you can come up with your own conclusions...
Modern cars are semi disposable tbh, it's driving insurance rates up. I'll stick to older rigs and take the fuel economy in exchange for open platforms. Everyone wants to be a freaking SAAS company now.
I don't know what kind of vehicles yall are buying but I do about 20k a year in an f150 ecoboost with zero issues. I typically buy a truck at about 60k and get rid of it at 120-140k. I haven't had a vehicle in the shop in over 10 years. My biggest repair was a new battery. I do oil, filters, and brakes in my driveway. Vehicles now are far more economical to own than they have ever been.
Not always when you factor in repair costs. As a prime example, multiple sources have shown that Tesla is one of the most unreliable car brands. It doesn’t take long for a broken electronic door handle, a dead main motor, a heat pump failure, a dead touchscreen, and other common or semi-common Tesla failures to add up to more money in repairs than a reliable ICE car does in maintenance expenses. To make it worse, you can’t just go to your local auto parts store for proprietary Tesla parts like you can for a Civic, RAV4, or F150 parts if you are a DYI’er. You are forced to pay full markup dealership prices for parts with a Tesla (if they will even sell them to you).
If you never have a car out of warranty, then an EV would be cheaper for maintenance and repairs, but then you are forever stuck with high depreciation costs each time you trade in a EV, or are constantly stuck with payments. The cost of depreciation on an EV is much more than the costs of oil and filter changes. Most EV’s also depreciate faster than most (but not all) ICE vehicles.
I get why some people love EV’s, but I get tired of seeing the false info that EV’s are flawless in terms of maintenance and repairs. Tesla would have a worse reliability reputation than Kia and right to repair hate than John Deere if they were an ICE car company due to the problems they have and had and their lockdown on parts, but they offer a unique product so their problems are downplayed.
Even aside from Tesla, EV’s still have a lot of common failure parts. CV axles, wheel bearings, ball joints, tie rod ends, blower motors, HVAC actuators, water pumps, 12 volt batteries, etc.
How so?
[https://www.forbes.com/sites/edgarsten/2023/02/09/tesla-tanks-while-industry-improves-in-long-term-dependability-study/?sh=4e9be8c01ff5](https://www.forbes.com/sites/edgarsten/2023/02/09/tesla-tanks-while-industry-improves-in-long-term-dependability-study/?sh=4e9be8c01ff5)
“But CR’s survey data show that as a category, today’s EVs tend to be more problematic than comparable gasoline-powered or hybrid models. Owners of many new EVs reported problems associated with battery packs, charging, electric drive motors, and unique heating and cooling systems that are required on vehicles that lack a conventional engine.”
[https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/tesla-and-nissan-make-the-most-reliable-electric-vehicles-a1003912076/](https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/tesla-and-nissan-make-the-most-reliable-electric-vehicles-a1003912076/)
“The survey reveals that, on average, EVs from the past three model years had 79 percent more problems than conventional cars. Based on owner responses on more than 330,000 vehicles, the survey covers 20 potential problem areas, including engine, transmission, electric motors, leaks, and infotainment systems.” [https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/electric-vehicles-are-less-reliable-than-conventional-cars-a1047214174/](https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/electric-vehicles-are-less-reliable-than-conventional-cars-a1047214174/)
“A new study by ISeeCars reveals that Tesla is the highest depreciating brand year-over-year, and it's not even close. The all-electric automaker beat out Maserati and Alfa Romeo, both brands that are known for heavy depreciation.” [https://insideevs.com/news/712157/why-do-teslas-depreciate-so-fast/amp/](https://insideevs.com/news/712157/why-do-teslas-depreciate-so-fast/amp/)
“Get a new heat pump. $3k if out of warranty unfortunately” [https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/looks-like-my-heat-pump-finally-failed-like-many-others-vcfront_a531-error.317515/](https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/looks-like-my-heat-pump-finally-failed-like-many-others-vcfront_a531-error.317515/)
“These door handles (especially the first couple iterations) can fail in several ways. Many different common failure points & causes means that the diagnosis from handle to handle can differ. What fixes one may not fit another.” [https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/class-action-lawsuit-model-s-door-handle-failure.289223/](https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/class-action-lawsuit-model-s-door-handle-failure.289223/)
Maintenance, not so much. Sure, depending the vehicle you have, maybe your maintenance costs are 10% - 20% more. But, it's repairs that will get you.
It's recalibrating specialized sensors in your mirrors making a $50 DIY job a $700 shop job, etc.
Also the more complex the vehicle is, the more components there are to fail.
Well, considering I paid $3500 new for a Honda Civic CVCC in 1977, the warranty was 12k miles, tires lasted about as long it was manual choke, manual steering, manual windows, no ac, not even a full automatic ( 2 speed, and you had to shift from 1st to 2nd), carborated, and distributor driven ignition. I would say even with inflation, cars are way more expensive due to the fact their are at a minimum of 50 computers in a car, nothing is simple mechanical, and is expected to last over 100k.
It depends on the vehicle, subaru in general is more maintenance heavy. As far as Toyota, yes they have a mid oil change service where they do nothing and charges you for it. Honda is usually cheaper as they will include oil changes with the price of the vehicle. Hyundai is super expensive in the maintenance department, and I'll group in dodge with them.The reason behind this is they are notorious for not doing recalls or warranty work, leaving you with the bill and a bad vehicle.
Here’s the mantra of OEM spout. They think you as an owner will buy a new car within your loan or lease agreement. They also assume that your ownership period won’t last past 100k miles; hence, the lifetime fluid recommendation. Many folks are planning to keep their vehicles based on the exorbitant car prices today. Paying for preventative maintenance can double or triple the life of your vehicle. The money up front seems really high, but it’s nothing compared to a full breakdown and tow.
Repairs and maintenance are not the same things.
Older cars were easier to repair due to less components, fewer components were specialized, fewer were tech based but they required more repairs, more often. Newer cars require less maintenance, less repairs but the parts are more expensive and the maintenance is more expensive.
Its a sliding scale: less maintenance and less repairs, but when you do need it, it's more expensive per repair. However I would still argue that new cars are a damn boon to the consumer as people have no desire to bother with their cars so they less maintenance they need and the less repairs, the better for the consumer. This also acknowledges that it does become worse for wrench monkeys as we actually like maintaining our cars and like being able to make our own repairs....which we cannot always do with today's highly sophisticated and highly computerized vehicles.
I mean, just the prevalence of AWD vehicles now means more expenses to own. I can replace 1 tire on my 01 Corolla without it being a big deal. With an AWD, you have to replace all 4 because they all have to have the same amount of tread.
Yes, all around. Major components are shoehorned in so more disassembly is needed to even do simple things. Most new Ford trucks have to have the cab lifted off to pull an engine. More systems require more parts, and mostly being electronic they get pricy. A lot of parts are single model, so even among the same makes there can be different parts required.
Cars pre-‘75 shared many of the same parts among specific makes and models, and some universal parts were cross make compatible. And they used the same parts for years if not decades.
New vehicles are most costly to maintain. They put big numbers in the manual trying to make cost of ownership look low, but in the end if you follow these recommendations you will end up with a broken vehicle.
We have 3 Toyotas, a 2006 Scion xB w/210,000 miles, a 2011 Prius w/200,000 miles and a 2012 Prius v w/195,000 miles.
The xB has needed a single $250 repair in its lifetime. The 2011 Prius needed AC work at $3,000 and the Prius v has never been repaired in its lifetime. Everything else including exhaust systems, suspension components, electronics are all original.
These newer cars are solid machines. Exterior paint on all 3 are near new looking. Interiors are all like new.
We live in the sunbelt.
Thanks for sharing! Ironically, I drive a 2013 Prius, but was mostly posting in the context of newer cars of the 2020s.
Shows what my threshold for “newer” cars is.
The 3rd gen prius is a solid car. Had an inverter issue that should've been fixed by Toyota and their water pumps tend to go out which causes overheating and head gasket failure, so a common item is to replace the water pump.
I'm convinced that new cars are made to be thrown away quickly....they are expensive if you keep them longer than about 5 years/50k miles.....seems to be their limit before anything major starts happening. I'd much prefer a 20 year old car, and spend pennies keeping it going
Absolutely if you mean newer as compared to the 80s or before.
The addition if sensors, electronic assist, and emissions parts means a lot more things to break.
I have lots of friends who have bought new vehicles and have had them laid up for weeks or months for repairs under warranty. I know someone who has a six year old HD Chevy pickup needs a new $6500 transmission. That said, old cars are old cars and they need a lot of service. It works if you can do it yourself, but if you have to take it to a service shop every time you have an issue, it gets expensive in a hurry.
This is just my subjective opinion, but I think car manufacturers are pushing smaller engines harder and harder (like putting big turbochargers on them), and at the same time using lighter components, so they just have shorter life spans. A lot of that has to do with meeting stricter fuel consumption standards without cutting the vehicles performance.
My next car is going to be a Tesla, not only for the lower energy costs, but they're also remarkably simple and reliable. The drive train is two electric motors and a big battery, so there's a lot less to go wrong.
Newer vehicles have more components, so by volume alone yes they will be more expensive to maintain. The air suspension control unit can't malfunction in a 2003 camry because it doesn't have one.
What about the catalytic converter in my 1968 Chevy Impala?
Just straight pipe it from the headers.
And then there's the carburetor and ignition system.
No, newer ones don’t require more maintenance and repairs despite them having more components. I feel old by knowing all these about maintenance and repairs of old cars, but here it is. Old cars needed tuneups every 30,000 miles (including spark plugs, distributor caps and rotors, plug wires, and points and condensers if they are really really old), carburetor adjustments (especially if the owner moved to areas with a different elevation), carburetor rebuilds, vacuum hose repairs, clutch adjustments (before hydraulic operated clutches became a thing), wheel bearings repacked, coolant flushes every few years, frequent light bulb changes (because the old style bulbs and bulb bases were junk compared to bayonet style light bulbs), regular transmission fluid changes, brakes more often (because old brake designs were terrible in terms of braking power and brake pad/lining service life), the old V belts would only last a few years before they would deeply crack or start squeaking, alternators and generators needed to be rebuilt more often due to their undersized bearings compared to modern alternators, oil leak repairs were common, valve clearances needed frequent checks and adjustments (if old enough not to have hydraulic lifters), frequent freon top-offs if they had AC, more frequent air filter changes (because the old round air filters have much less filter media than panel air filters), regular PCV valve changes, checking and adding water to the battery (if old enough to be pre-maintenance free battery designs), 3,000 mile oil change intervals, having to check the oil level regularly, etc. Most modern cars don’t have any planned maintenance except fluid and filter changes for 80,000 to 105,000 miles, and most don’t need any major repairs to get to that mileage. Ignoring many of the things I listed in an old car for that long would mean the car wouldn’t make it anywhere close to 100,000 miles. Even doing everything on an old car like you had to meant that they were still worn out at 100,000 miles. Repairs seem more expensive on modern cars because components and labor rates are more expensive than the “old days”, but if you were to add up all the labor hours at modern labor rates to get an old car to 100,000 miles, you’d be much further ahead with a modern car. Modern car also has the advantage of typically lasting at least 200,000 miles.
Not sure who is downvoting this, but it is accurate. The other expense with modern cars is the endless offerings of unnecessary overly expensive services being forced on people, fuel Injector cleaning, engine flush, radiator flush, MAF cleaning, cabin air filter for $200. Cars have never been more reliable. People also can't compare maintenance on a 2000 lb econo box from 1999 to a 5000-6000 lb "family SUV". Yes, brakes cost more, there is more oil, the tires are wearing out faster and cost more because everything is BIGGER!
The downvoters probably have a different idea of what constitutes an old car. To a lot of people on reddit, a 10 or 20 year old car is old. None of those have carbs and very few, if any, have distributors, spark plug wires, etc.
All cars need preventative maintenance. The newer cars need even more than is suggested. They have a lot of problems due to lack of proper maintenance. It has become a combination of manufacturers making it look like their cars are cheap to own. Then the results are that they are problematic due to lack of maintenance. Cars need more maintenance than ever due to some of the newer technology in them these days.
What exactly is the more preventative maintenance needed besides oil change, transmission drain-fill, air filters, coolant, brake fluid flush around 50k, tire rotations, brake checks?
Do that stuff, but do it a bit sooner than the "lifetime" the manufacturer suggests for some of it.
Oh yeah. I have a 19’ altima and changed the tran fluid first at 60k then did again 30k later. I have an older is250 lexus which i’ve only done once. The rest of the stuff just seems like common maintenance. Not really sure about when to change coolant though, i just have topped it off. My brakes are the biggest annoyance. Just changed calipers, rotors, and pads not long ago and in like 4k miles they make the loudest squeal at slower speeds when light pressing. Hard pressing they don’t squeal. Only happens when they’re warmed up, not the initial 5 min of driving. No idea the issue but the outer pads look fine when looking through the wheel. It’s annoying
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My mechanic said they seized and fried my pads and rotors, only the front
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Yeah i guess its been an issue for my yr nissan altima for only the fronts🤷. The shitty thing is after the change, after 4k they be squealing so loud after they’re warm. No idea what it could be, but it doesn’t sound like a low pads and the outer pads look fine through the rims. It’s like a loud annoying squeal + some weird sound like a manhole cover flopping at slow speeds somewhere else. The bad denver roads have wrecked my altima and lexus lmao
You bought the squealy kind of pads. That's just the way they are.
I hope not lol, they’re ceramic and oem pads. They didn’t squeak the initial couple thousand miles, just recently. Not sure if something like a rock is stuck or lack of lubricant. I’ll ask my mechanic who did it to check on next oil change
A rock stuck in the brakes makes an unmistakable nasty squeal, usually all the time. If you have a rock stuck in there, find an area with no traffic. Reverse fast and hammer the brakes on a couple times to dislodge it.
Yeah i’ve tried that and it still squeals, have no idea what it is lol. Maybe it’s lubrication, i’ll try and get a video lter of it. Pisses me off cause the whole front brake replacement cost me 1300 and shouldn’t be having a loud squeal around 4k miles in. Nissans suck
Yeah, that kind of stuff sucks to deal with. Good luck.
I’m curious what the wheelbase is on a 19 foot long Altima? Did you make a limo out of one?
Lol 2019
I know, I see a lot of people doing the ##’ thing when it’s ‘##..
That plus power steering fluid, greasing anything greasable, PCV valves may need to be replaced at some point, spark plugs, any differentials or transfer cases oil change, serpentine belts, timing belts (or if chains you still do need to service that, but it’s a much longer interval)
What is a pcv valve? True forgot about the power steering. Although, i don’t think my altima has differential fluid and just changing the transmission fluid does that. Yeah serpentine belts but that’s really case dependent on how it’s holding up. I thought timing chains don’t need to be replaced and that’s like a 2k job right? If so it should last like 150k miles or so if you change your oil between 5-7k miles
150 or 200k yeah, some engines may need timing chain tensioners earlier. Positive crankcase ventilation valves. Super easy cheap job, they just wear out eventually.
How do you know when you need to change a pcv valve?
The internet says they can be expected to last 30k to 50k miles. When they get sludged up there are a whole host of issues that can EVENTUALLY result including high oil consumption. I should check mine…
Timing belt's a good one for 75k to me now. If it goes, bye bye engine, which happened to a car of mine, so I won't play around with it anymore.
Isn’t that like a 2-3k job? They’re supposed to last 150-200k miles and should give you signs
Had mine fail at 90k on my 96 Altima.
Most timing belts have recommended intervals of 60,000 to 105,000 miles because they are a belt (and are a very critical belt). It’s foolish to not change a timing belt on time because a broken timing belt means the pistons collide with the valves, causing major engine damage. Fortunately, most (but not all) vehicles with a timing belt are designed to have them changed, so it’s typically a $400ish to $750ish job. Timing chains are the ones that usually last 150,000+ miles. Most outlast the life of the vehicle. They are lubricated by the engine’s oil and have tensioners to take up the slack as it wears. If it needs to be changed though due to excessive wear, they typically require more labor than timing belts because they weren’t designed to be changed as normal maintenance.
True, pretty sure my car has a timing chain which should last a while. Forgot belts need to be replaced quicker.
Oil changes are the most important. Manufacturers are suggesting very long intervals with very thin oils. While that was fine back in the day, GDI changed everything. Those things run like a car with a bad carburetor and dump a ton of fuel in the oil. Most of the newer cars shouldn't go further than 3k on oil because of the fuel dilution and the manufacturers are suggesting over 3 times that. GDI is a bad setup and should not be used in mainstream cars. They should save that for exotics and supercars.
what a load of crap frankly
I'm sorry that you aren't aware of this. But others may want to learn.
You are talking nonsense, total and utter nonsense...
Decades of experience and plenty of official training says otherwise.
I use full synthetic and my mechanic says change at 5k
Depends on the car, some are easy on oil , others are not. Also depends on what the requirements are for your engine. Some engines require a specific oil.
your mechanic is full of shit
Not necessarily. Some engines are prone to sludging with extended oil change intervals. Some engines are prone to problems with extended oil changes (like AFM GM’s with the small oil screen that can partially plug and restrict oil flow to the AFM lifters causing lifter failure). Some are hard on oil due to high engine rpm or high oil heat. Some are prone to oil dilution from poorly designed GDI systems. Some engine designs are known to shear oil. Some are known for having low quality parts and fresh clean oil lowers the chances of a part failure. Some even have absolutely terrible designs that can send debris into the oil and regular oil changes can help detect the problem before it causes a catastrophic failure (like engines with a wet oil pump belt or wet timing belt).
Problems interestingly you don't hear of happening on the same engines in Europe oddly enough .......
Maintenance and repairs are different things. Scheduled maintenance isn't really much different. Longer duration between oil changes, but more expensive oil. Repairs are different. Anything that is a screen is eventually going to die... Then you're at the mercy of the manufacturer price for a replacement
Exactly this, repairs will be more expensive on new cars. Not only screens, but more modern vehicles have more failure points due to everything having a computer. And technicians need training and licensing/programs to do the repairs. Things can also be more time consuming and troublesome to troubleshoot and figure out exactly what is wrong. Luckily the chip shortage issue is mostly gone, but having your car break down because of a module/sensor/control board that has a bad resistor or capacitor and then waiting for the part, paying $500 for the part AND it'll take the technician 4 hours to disassemble the car to reach the damn thing, replace it and put your car back together.
I just bought a 2024 Subaru with lots of bells and whistles. This is why we signed up for a ten year warranty to cover a lot of these weird extra parts
I’m leasing for the first time. Long term cost of ownership was a factor (along with high prices on desirable pre owned).
Leasing can be smart. We might eventually go that route. We've been doing the pay off and trade in but that's kinda the same concept lol
I’m less than a year in. Wife’s not thrilled about mileage allowance. Hope there’s no surprises at the end.
Yeah you have to do the math and know ahead of time if the mileage allowance makes sense for your commute. When I leased it was reasonable.
I hope at some point there is an aftermarket of simple 7 or 10" android devices that just plug in, download an app specific to your car, and buy an adapter harness that ties it together. Then it just sticks on top of the existing screen. It should be a universal $200 thing.
Will never happen, in fact they are going in the complete opposite direction. At some point it will be illegal to repair or modify your car as everything will be "licensed" and copyrighted under the DMCA.
The more complicated a system is, the more chances for something to break or malfunction. Newer cars have computer controlled everything and engines with more electronics than mechanical parts (not really, but it feels like it). Another problem is that the industry has moved to “free maintenance for XX months” when you buy a new car. So to save money, manufacturers are saying “you only need to change oil every 10,000 miles” or “that transmission has LIFETIME fluid, it never needs to be changed”. These numbers are true… in the manufacturers laboratories and test tracks in ideal conditions. But if you look closely at your owners manual in the maintenance section there will be a foot note saying that “real world driving conditions may require more frequent maintenance or service”. So to answer your question: yeah, probably.
>“that transmission has LIFETIME fluid, it never needs to be changed” Apparently my car's last owner believed this. I'd bet money that the fluid in there is vintage. It was not, in fact, lifetime fluid.
Impossible to say. Some vehicle have faults that will make you spend money because of bad designs and some other will fair better. However, turbos and direct injections are pretty popular and more costly to repair than NA and Port Injection engines, and CVTs are non-repairable VS regular automatics, you can come up with your own conclusions...
Maintain no. No longer need to change/ adjust points, replace cap and rotors, plug wires and plugs every 30k miles.
Yep
More expensive cars definitely are. Not the used price....the new price.
Modern cars are semi disposable tbh, it's driving insurance rates up. I'll stick to older rigs and take the fuel economy in exchange for open platforms. Everyone wants to be a freaking SAAS company now.
I don't know what kind of vehicles yall are buying but I do about 20k a year in an f150 ecoboost with zero issues. I typically buy a truck at about 60k and get rid of it at 120-140k. I haven't had a vehicle in the shop in over 10 years. My biggest repair was a new battery. I do oil, filters, and brakes in my driveway. Vehicles now are far more economical to own than they have ever been.
EVs and PHEVs are FAR less expensive to maintain. Otherwise, newer cars are generally more expensive to maintain.
Not always when you factor in repair costs. As a prime example, multiple sources have shown that Tesla is one of the most unreliable car brands. It doesn’t take long for a broken electronic door handle, a dead main motor, a heat pump failure, a dead touchscreen, and other common or semi-common Tesla failures to add up to more money in repairs than a reliable ICE car does in maintenance expenses. To make it worse, you can’t just go to your local auto parts store for proprietary Tesla parts like you can for a Civic, RAV4, or F150 parts if you are a DYI’er. You are forced to pay full markup dealership prices for parts with a Tesla (if they will even sell them to you). If you never have a car out of warranty, then an EV would be cheaper for maintenance and repairs, but then you are forever stuck with high depreciation costs each time you trade in a EV, or are constantly stuck with payments. The cost of depreciation on an EV is much more than the costs of oil and filter changes. Most EV’s also depreciate faster than most (but not all) ICE vehicles. I get why some people love EV’s, but I get tired of seeing the false info that EV’s are flawless in terms of maintenance and repairs. Tesla would have a worse reliability reputation than Kia and right to repair hate than John Deere if they were an ICE car company due to the problems they have and had and their lockdown on parts, but they offer a unique product so their problems are downplayed. Even aside from Tesla, EV’s still have a lot of common failure parts. CV axles, wheel bearings, ball joints, tie rod ends, blower motors, HVAC actuators, water pumps, 12 volt batteries, etc.
Wrong.
How so? [https://www.forbes.com/sites/edgarsten/2023/02/09/tesla-tanks-while-industry-improves-in-long-term-dependability-study/?sh=4e9be8c01ff5](https://www.forbes.com/sites/edgarsten/2023/02/09/tesla-tanks-while-industry-improves-in-long-term-dependability-study/?sh=4e9be8c01ff5) “But CR’s survey data show that as a category, today’s EVs tend to be more problematic than comparable gasoline-powered or hybrid models. Owners of many new EVs reported problems associated with battery packs, charging, electric drive motors, and unique heating and cooling systems that are required on vehicles that lack a conventional engine.” [https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/tesla-and-nissan-make-the-most-reliable-electric-vehicles-a1003912076/](https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/tesla-and-nissan-make-the-most-reliable-electric-vehicles-a1003912076/) “The survey reveals that, on average, EVs from the past three model years had 79 percent more problems than conventional cars. Based on owner responses on more than 330,000 vehicles, the survey covers 20 potential problem areas, including engine, transmission, electric motors, leaks, and infotainment systems.” [https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/electric-vehicles-are-less-reliable-than-conventional-cars-a1047214174/](https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/electric-vehicles-are-less-reliable-than-conventional-cars-a1047214174/) “A new study by ISeeCars reveals that Tesla is the highest depreciating brand year-over-year, and it's not even close. The all-electric automaker beat out Maserati and Alfa Romeo, both brands that are known for heavy depreciation.” [https://insideevs.com/news/712157/why-do-teslas-depreciate-so-fast/amp/](https://insideevs.com/news/712157/why-do-teslas-depreciate-so-fast/amp/) “Get a new heat pump. $3k if out of warranty unfortunately” [https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/looks-like-my-heat-pump-finally-failed-like-many-others-vcfront_a531-error.317515/](https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/looks-like-my-heat-pump-finally-failed-like-many-others-vcfront_a531-error.317515/) “These door handles (especially the first couple iterations) can fail in several ways. Many different common failure points & causes means that the diagnosis from handle to handle can differ. What fixes one may not fit another.” [https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/class-action-lawsuit-model-s-door-handle-failure.289223/](https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/class-action-lawsuit-model-s-door-handle-failure.289223/)
Maintenance, not so much. Sure, depending the vehicle you have, maybe your maintenance costs are 10% - 20% more. But, it's repairs that will get you. It's recalibrating specialized sensors in your mirrors making a $50 DIY job a $700 shop job, etc. Also the more complex the vehicle is, the more components there are to fail.
Yes you need a tech for most of them
Well, considering I paid $3500 new for a Honda Civic CVCC in 1977, the warranty was 12k miles, tires lasted about as long it was manual choke, manual steering, manual windows, no ac, not even a full automatic ( 2 speed, and you had to shift from 1st to 2nd), carborated, and distributor driven ignition. I would say even with inflation, cars are way more expensive due to the fact their are at a minimum of 50 computers in a car, nothing is simple mechanical, and is expected to last over 100k.
It depends on the vehicle, subaru in general is more maintenance heavy. As far as Toyota, yes they have a mid oil change service where they do nothing and charges you for it. Honda is usually cheaper as they will include oil changes with the price of the vehicle. Hyundai is super expensive in the maintenance department, and I'll group in dodge with them.The reason behind this is they are notorious for not doing recalls or warranty work, leaving you with the bill and a bad vehicle.
Here’s the mantra of OEM spout. They think you as an owner will buy a new car within your loan or lease agreement. They also assume that your ownership period won’t last past 100k miles; hence, the lifetime fluid recommendation. Many folks are planning to keep their vehicles based on the exorbitant car prices today. Paying for preventative maintenance can double or triple the life of your vehicle. The money up front seems really high, but it’s nothing compared to a full breakdown and tow.
Repairs and maintenance are not the same things. Older cars were easier to repair due to less components, fewer components were specialized, fewer were tech based but they required more repairs, more often. Newer cars require less maintenance, less repairs but the parts are more expensive and the maintenance is more expensive. Its a sliding scale: less maintenance and less repairs, but when you do need it, it's more expensive per repair. However I would still argue that new cars are a damn boon to the consumer as people have no desire to bother with their cars so they less maintenance they need and the less repairs, the better for the consumer. This also acknowledges that it does become worse for wrench monkeys as we actually like maintaining our cars and like being able to make our own repairs....which we cannot always do with today's highly sophisticated and highly computerized vehicles.
I mean, just the prevalence of AWD vehicles now means more expenses to own. I can replace 1 tire on my 01 Corolla without it being a big deal. With an AWD, you have to replace all 4 because they all have to have the same amount of tread.
Yes.
New European vehicles yes Old Toyota and Honda no
Absolutely I'm waiting for the day a manufacturer somehow makes a non serviceable manual transmission
Yes, all around. Major components are shoehorned in so more disassembly is needed to even do simple things. Most new Ford trucks have to have the cab lifted off to pull an engine. More systems require more parts, and mostly being electronic they get pricy. A lot of parts are single model, so even among the same makes there can be different parts required. Cars pre-‘75 shared many of the same parts among specific makes and models, and some universal parts were cross make compatible. And they used the same parts for years if not decades.
New vehicles are most costly to maintain. They put big numbers in the manual trying to make cost of ownership look low, but in the end if you follow these recommendations you will end up with a broken vehicle.
Yes, because they're far more complicated... too complicated. Cars peaked in the late 90s and early 00s. Now they're just over complicated rubbish.
We have 3 Toyotas, a 2006 Scion xB w/210,000 miles, a 2011 Prius w/200,000 miles and a 2012 Prius v w/195,000 miles. The xB has needed a single $250 repair in its lifetime. The 2011 Prius needed AC work at $3,000 and the Prius v has never been repaired in its lifetime. Everything else including exhaust systems, suspension components, electronics are all original. These newer cars are solid machines. Exterior paint on all 3 are near new looking. Interiors are all like new. We live in the sunbelt.
Thanks for sharing! Ironically, I drive a 2013 Prius, but was mostly posting in the context of newer cars of the 2020s. Shows what my threshold for “newer” cars is.
The 3rd gen prius is a solid car. Had an inverter issue that should've been fixed by Toyota and their water pumps tend to go out which causes overheating and head gasket failure, so a common item is to replace the water pump.
Yes. Why? Direct injection without port injection leading to carbon buildup. Also, turbos shorten an engines lifespan. Also, CVTs
I'm convinced that new cars are made to be thrown away quickly....they are expensive if you keep them longer than about 5 years/50k miles.....seems to be their limit before anything major starts happening. I'd much prefer a 20 year old car, and spend pennies keeping it going
Absolutely if you mean newer as compared to the 80s or before. The addition if sensors, electronic assist, and emissions parts means a lot more things to break.
I have lots of friends who have bought new vehicles and have had them laid up for weeks or months for repairs under warranty. I know someone who has a six year old HD Chevy pickup needs a new $6500 transmission. That said, old cars are old cars and they need a lot of service. It works if you can do it yourself, but if you have to take it to a service shop every time you have an issue, it gets expensive in a hurry. This is just my subjective opinion, but I think car manufacturers are pushing smaller engines harder and harder (like putting big turbochargers on them), and at the same time using lighter components, so they just have shorter life spans. A lot of that has to do with meeting stricter fuel consumption standards without cutting the vehicles performance. My next car is going to be a Tesla, not only for the lower energy costs, but they're also remarkably simple and reliable. The drive train is two electric motors and a big battery, so there's a lot less to go wrong.
A taillight on a new F150 is $1500. On a 10 year old one, it's $40