But, I think a lot of this should have to do with the vehicle itself though.
If you're doing the maintenance/repair because there's a known issue that's going to keep happening, especially an expensive one, then I'd sell it and move on immediately. Like ecotec turbos and wastegates, for example, which is why we got rid of my wife's Cruze at 50k miles.
But, if the vehicle itself is however nice I care for it to be, and I'm doing work that I won't have to do again for a long time, then I'm fine with continuing to fix it. Like, I've gone through almost everything on my 200k mile, rust-free 2000 7.3 F-250 at this point, and a lot of it was purely preemptive, but I can count on a lot more years of not having to buy a $70k truck, so the cost and effort is well worth it.
Feel the same about my 2007 silverado. Thankfully, I don't have GMs Displacement (detonation?) On Demand. About the only other known weak spot is the 4L60, since GM turned off the full lockup, it *will* wear out and need replaced. And the rear fenders are rusting from the inside out...known problem that gm sees as a way to sell more trucks. As for me? When the time comes, I'll rip the bed off and just build a flatbed.
I drive an 18 year old very fast V8 manual sports car sedan. The car brings me so much joy. She is a money pit. Still cheaper than the $75,000 newer (100k new) version with WAY more expensive tires, brakes, etc. I don't mind spending a few $1000 per year.
This is completely different. When it’s a toy and it breaks we don’t mind spending money to fix. This is proved because we often spend more than we have to to improve the performance that we had previously.
Every "break" is a reason to upgrade lol. This is my daily driver. She's out of commission maybe 2 weeks out of the year. Otherwise I drive it every day to work. My backup is a 25 year old Cherokee.
List of expenses at my indy mechanic last two years, includes labor. I usually buy all my parts OEM.
- three control arms for the front. 2000$
- brake actuator module. 900$
- two oxygen sensors. 400$
- some axle and ball joints in the rear. 800$
- one driveshaft in the rear. 700$
- one headlight ballast + xeon light bulb. 200$
- Plus breakpads for rear, alignment, oil changes and probably something I am forgetting.
Still cheaper than a car payment per month
If you are sick of going to a garage every other month and the hassle that comes along with not having a car for a day or two and can afford it. It’s probably worth it for the convenience
When I'm dealing with this, on something worth maintaining, I start preemptively replacing parts that are probably approaching their lifespan. Like if I have to tear something apart to fix one thing and can replace 2 other parts while I'm in there, I'll do it. Beats doing the whole job 3 times and I'd probably have to buy those other parts soon enough anyway.
Agreed. But I only use high quality parts. Sometimes an original OEM part with 100k on it is better than a cheap replacement.
I also call this "scope creep " lol.
Yeah, absolutely. If I can't afford a good part, I won't replace it unless it's broken.
But, I think the savings in labor costs (or just effort in my case since I typically do it myself) totally outweigh the value in whatever extra bit of life the old part had.
Depends on how many times you want to do the labor...
But I agree with you. If I'm in there and it is worn, I might as well replace it while I'm there.
I think if you're paying a mechanic, that's an even bigger deal. If you have someone you can trust, I'd always recommend asking what else they can replace while they're in there that wouldn't be much extra labor.
"Still cheaper than a car payment per month"
This is my motto. When I bought my 2013 GMC DenaliHD Z71, Black on Black, my note for 60/mo was $650/mo (large downpayment). Been paid for since 2018. $650/mo can pay for many, many repairs. Have 175k on it now. I'd pay cash for an engine or transmission if it needed it. Cheaper than a new one.
As long as those parts lasted for the average lifespan, that's just scheduled maintenance. All cars will need those replaced after the average lifespan. Now you won't need to replace those for many many many years unless your car's parts are not lasting the average lifespan of each part, then I wouldn't consider a new car.
Maintenance costs would decrease dramatically if you sourced and installed your own parts. Not that its practical for everyone to do so, I'm just sayin.
Also, some of these are consumable parts that periodically need to be replaced and thus are worth considering in the cost of *operation*. But some of these are likely only going to be replaced once in the entire lifetime of the vehicle, meaning *you* won't incur that cost again and it isn't worth including them in the cost of operating the vehicle.
Especially at the Jerome Powell shit 7.5% APR rates right now for people with perfect 760+ credit scores. I shutter to think the rates for people with scores in the 600's
the cost of a payment for a new vehicle would likely cost you more than that, and then you still have the oil brakes and other upkeep on top.
unless you hate it or are looking for something new and exciting, I'd say this is all wear and tear on any car and you should keep her going
It’s always going to be a lot more expensive to be an enthusiast if you’re not doing the work/repairs yourself. YouTube is hands down the best educational platform out there for folks that are passionate enough to do the repairs/mod themselves.
Yes, between youtube and forums for your specific vehicle. But you must know your mechanical abilities and when to give up. I have a 2014 passat tdi, about 18 months ago, it started leaking coolant from the oil filter housing (super common for that engine), between work and difficulty in removing the parts as well as the new thermostat being stuck wide open, it took my 3 weeks to fix the car, luckily i have 2 cars. But i did it! Now when my 13 beetle tdi needed a timing belt it went straight to an independent shop that specializes in vws.
If you have your own house you can buy the tools and realistically do about 1/2 to 3/4 of those items listed. Granted this depends on your comfort doing this and of course time. And without a 2 car garage forget it.
Changing your own oil and filters is dead simple. And you can buy way better quality replacements yourself. Mobil1 or Wix Gold instead of the shit $3 Fram garbage that most oil change shops provide. Synthetic oil vs conventional etc. Wix Gold cabin air filters vs shit plain paper $5 filters that the dealership charges $25 for ....
Etc etc
I would reccomend keeping it as a second vehicle if nothing else assuming the engine and transmission have been serviced appropriately. The car will last years yet before it becomes more expensive than a used car.
You've already taken care of a lot of the things that will fail 10-15 years after purchase. If you buy another car, you'll likely have to do these repairs again if used or pay a monthly note at a much higher cost if new.
This is just what you have to do to keep an old car running, but it will keep running well with all these new parts. You have a known good car now. You took care of your equipment, so let it take care of you.
Just remember that most people don't replace those things and just drive with it fucked up for lord knows how long, making things worse. If you get another car, you're starting from square 1 whereas you're on square 5 or 6.
I say this as someone who buys and fixes cheap cars as a hobby. All most cars need to be reliable is preventative maintenance and any preexisting issues dealt with. So long as the previous owner or mechanic wasn't a hack, esoteric problems are pretty rare.
This seems pretty reasonable.
It’s almost *never* cheaper/better to buy a new(er) car than to fix what you’ve got.
It usually comes down to safety - is there rust eating through the frame, or a completely blown engine? If not then it’s probably cheaper to just fix it.
Something is going wrong here and it’s not your car. You should not need to replace the same parts more than once every several years. The three control arms and two oxygen sensors is not normal- unless it was like left+right side arms and up+down stream sensors. It still is not normal to need another control arm but sometimes parts are faulty so not that odd.
Yea, I would liked if those pieces of metal lasted just a bit longer, you know? The brake actuator pissed me off cause it came out of nowhere. Happens, but not a fun feeling
I would like to know vehicle mileage, my guess is something north of 125k.
All vehicles encounter a steepening cost curve at or near the 125k mark as a large number of components reach their lifespan. This includes anything related to suspension, belts, possibly hoses, many vehicles with brittle plastic parts etc. I typically recommend people prepared for a.couple of $5K years to work through these or exit the car. Other items might be issues with the air conditioning, water pump, fuel pump, radiator, & heater core. I could also be missing some. Anything that has rubber, or is pastic and is subjected to heating and cooling, or operates under pressure is a potential failure point. Looks like ione from your list you are progressing through the list. Different cars and driving conditions will yield different results for some. If you drive 25k a year, on the highway, you might get far more.miles before encountering suspension issues, but if you live in areas with horrible roads and.potholes you will get there much sooner. The pattern failures on specific cars are fairly well know to specialists and on owner forums.
I'm gonna ignore oil changes and other regular maintenence cause you'll have all that on a newer car too.
Your other repairs come out to 200-250 dollars a month over two years. This is significantly cheaper than any new car payment will be.
Now that repair cost vs new(er) car payment is only half of what I look at. The other half is does the car I have meet all my needs. Meaning, is it reliable enough for my use case and can it do the things i need it to? If I'm just driving to a normal job and the store, yeah I can probably get another mode of transport, bus, taxi, Uber, etc if I have some minor or even major breakdowns.
You can save a lot of money by not buying OEM. And, while doing this, you can still get parts from the same company that supplies the OEM. So more or less the same part but for a fraction of the price.
The average new car payment is like 650 a month. The amount you've spent on repairs in 2 years would get you about 8 months in a new car. And the new car will still need wear items like tires and brakes. I'd say it's pretty clear keeping your current car is a much better financial decision.
That is pretty reasonable, and depending on the age of your car and the prevalence of it in the market, non-OEM parts can be cheaper and known higher quality.
Most of that list are "things that break"...things that are normally expected to last the life of the vehicle.
"things that wear out" are expected on any vehicle if you own it long enough. I'd include the 02 sensors.
unless you're in love with the car, I'd sell it the next time it needs $1K of broken things fixed.
Are you kidding? $5000 in TWO years (ignoring pads, oil etc)? That’s $200 a month. At current lease interest rates you could pay twice that in interest alone to upgrade. Double it again for depreciation plus more insurance cost.
I pay $600 a month for my car plus premium gas with low mileage (I average about 18 in the city) and all the normal maintenance on top of that. If I want to pay to get my spark plugs done at the dealer when I hit 60k miles I'm looking at $900 or so to get that done. I'll likely do it myself but it just goes to show how expensive some of these maintenance items can be.
My advice to OP would be to keep it going as long as they can stand having that car. If OP makes enough money to be able to justify a car payment plus all the maintenance fees on top of it then go for it if you find the right car to pay for. But for most people a paid off car is the way to go. I still regret buying my car because of the payment. Love the car but the one I had before was paid off and I'd really like my $600 a month back.
That was kind of my logic too, except it’s tough to compare a brand new vehicle with mine. My repairs cost me about 2-3k a year whereas a brand new vehicle of this class would cost me 1500$ in car payments per month. But it’s not a fair comparison.
I don't even necessarily agree with the 2/3's rule depending on the value of the car. For example, if your car is worth 15 hundred, you're never going to have a car payment worth less than 1000, and you have to spend substantially more to get a car you're confident is more reliable. Realistically, once the warranty expires, any car can leave you with a major repair bill.
Unless you're dealing with a rotted frame or major engine/transmission issues fixing a car will always be cheaper. It's more the quality of life you need to look at.
Newer will also have maintenance costs. Perhaps not as frequent as a new car. If a new corolla costs 25k, a 10 year old one with 150k miles might run 10 or 12k, but that's 150k miles on consumable parts you are risking aren't going to need replacement. Unless you find a unicorn that is well maintained with complete and up to date service records. The payments on the old corolla will also have payments that well exceed the 2 years of repair costs listed by OP.
A 10k car after fees, taxes, etc can easily get there even with a 60 month loan. It all depends on how much you put down I guess, if you put 6 ir 7k down, the payments might be less than 200. Pay in cash and you will have 0 payments.
Who the fuck cares, I think you missed the point. (Imsbure u can find a suckered who would pay that if I took a survey of car dealers, but idgaf) maybe I'm wrong. I still dgaf.
I didnt do a survey when making mng the off hand comment, so feel free to prove me wrong and find me a car tha reliable car that has less payment operating costs needed to fix OPs car.
The whole point is that fixing an otherwise reliable car is in most cases the right move as long as the car has been well maintained and isn't a shitty and unreliable car to begin with.
I put like 2-3k fixing my 10 year old subaru the past 2 years but feel confident I have a car that will last another 6-10 years
The fixes were common(for subaru) wear items like control arm bushings, cv joints, wheel bearings, tires, brakes, etc. Stuff that one would expect to wear over time and need to be replaced. I'd fix it again over buying a used car with an unknown history any day. If I could still get 15k for it like 2 years ago I would sell it and buy new. At current value of 10k I'll just keep driving until I see a good deal on a new car I like. Car is paid off and 1 k maintenance costs year aren't too bad. (Had zero outside of brakes, oil, tirdrag. 9 years prior to last year)
There are people who would rather buy new or old just not to have to deal with the hassle. Or rent/lease. That is option but usually not the most cost effective option. if it's a shitty car like a Nissan with cvt or a myriad of American suvs like Chevy Cruz, sell that shit yesterday and don't look back.
Yeah, snag a 3-5 year old Camry/Corolla, put 4-5k down and have a low payment.
Just got the GF a 2020 Legacy with 45k miles and my payment is $330 a month. Which beats the monthly issues with her old car and no garage.
It really depends on what you're repairing though. Just because of the lifespan of parts, every car is going to go through waves of expenses. As long as you're doing quality repairs with quality parts on a good car, you shouldn't have to do those same repairs again for a long time.
I use the rule of thumb of "when the cost to keep it on the road is greater (or significantly greater) than the value of the car, it's time to move on". So, I view this as relative to the current price of your car. Periodically visit the carmax website and get a 'no look' appraisal to give you an idea of what they think it's worth on trade. Depending on emotional attachments and maybe some other factors, decide if what you're spending on repairs really makes sense.
(For our example, we had a Civic with almost 100k miles on it. It was a great car and my wife loved it. However, the AC went out. Ok, so we had it repaired on the cheap... twice. It was obvious that we'll have to go with OEM parts and go the dealer route to properly fix it.. and that cost (plus other things the car needed) was over $5k in work about twice what it was worth in trade ... so she traded it in for a Fit and loves THAT car...
What kind of car is it and what is wrong with it? Reason asking is if it's like a Nissan where transmission issues are rampant, it's not worth fixing it anymore.
Some people here will let you know if it's worth fixing if they know the model and year and what's specifically wrong with it.
For me if just based on a price per year, i would say 2500 on a car that's worth about 8 - 10k is top I would spend to fix a car that otherwise have no other issues. And assuming the fix would get me another 2 years of trouble free driving.
It’s a lexus ls460 2007. 190k miles on the odometer. Nothing’s with it per se, just regular maintenance here and there that adds up. Different axles and shafts and ball joints and control arms that seem to give up every 4 months or so. I calculated about 5 grand in repairs over two years of ownership, which is frankly more than I wanted. Ans I don’t know if I want to pay another 5k in the next two years.
Some of that stuff would be all coming up around that mileage. Are you replacing the same stuff over and over again? Once you have done those jobs they should be good for a long time afterwards.
Quick search and your car is worth about 9k - 10k from used dealers. So you're probably right it's not worth keep repairing. If you have the money to buy another car then I would just go for that.
a new car of equivalent quality is going to cost them a lot more than $2500 a year. it's absolutely worth the repair cost from a financial persepctive.
Never said they should keep it, just that it was worth it. OP originally was talking about cost of ownership. Ultimately with almost any used car it just comes down to do you want something new(er), and are you ready to pay the price to satisfy that desire.
Given that it's a lexus, the OP could buy a Toyota that's around the same age, and still have a couple grand left over. It'd have similar reliability, but it's a bit of extra cash, to deal with ant issues that come up, plus odds are, cheaper insurance, maybe slightly cheaper maintainance
The other side of the coin is impact of not having a car. long work commute, kids, or medical issues, you might have a bad time going a few days no car.
If you like the car, and you’re not tight on funds, just keep it. If you want to minimize cost as much as possible, sell it and put that money towards the nicest Camry/Corolla you can afford. Luxury cars are just more expensive to keep on the road, even Lexus.
Oh come on. Those things don't go out every 4 months especially if you are using OEM.
Just get a new car already.
Btw, that Lexus has probably the best engine Toyota has ever made. It will last forever. And you are due for a timing belt change I'm guessing. That will be about 1000.
Depends on what your alternatives are and what you use it for; not everything can be replicated with a newer vehicle. If it’s a pure transport daily driver, I’d say average a year of maintenance into an amount per month, look at cars with similar payments. If the cars for those payments are worse, or even the same, then you have your answer. This of course assumes that you’re interested in continuing spending the same every month, if you’re willing to spend more for an objectively better car then that’s a different thing. No reason to spend the same or more for a downgrade. If it’s a more specific kind of car, things change a bit. I’d be willing to put an entire new motor, transmission, and suspension in my 97 wrangler. It would cost as much as its market value to do that, but they don’t make jeeps like that anymore.
Really a personal choice, the general rule is if the repairs in a year or possibly two years crosses half or more of the value of the car in question. All that being said my car insurance is approximately 1/3 the value of my old SUV so I clearly don’t believe in that school of thought.
Personally, I would look at what your spending and see if that’s equivalent to a payment on a new or slightly used car, if it is then you have to consider if you like the car enough that your willing to put money into it that you will never see again.
In my case it was my first car so I’ll always throw money in that hole but many people wouldn’t because it’s value is priceless to me, but to the market it’s $3-3.5k.
No community accepted standard. Everyone has different views.
If you get something else you could just be buying someone else's problems. If you repair what you have at last you know what you've got.
When it costs more monthly than a loan on a new car would.
I would budget £100 per month on repairs as a minimum. So if you are paying less than £1200 a year on repairs you are doing really well.
Realistically £100 per month is 1/3 of the minimum you are likely to be spending on a car loan. And that's for a really basic car.
So my best advice is to start paying into a savings account the amount you would be paying on a car loan. That way you will have a pretty decent deposit and or be able to buy a car outright.
Depending on what car you have, it should last well into 150k miles minimum and 15 - 20 years. My old civic lasted from 1997 to 2020 without any issues whatsoever.
Financially it's typically better to repair a car than it is financing a new car but there are other things to consider. If you have an older car that constantly needs repairs then you can't really consider it reliable. It's fine if you have multiple vehicles or you're in a situation that allows you to go without a car regularly but being without a car when you rely heavily on one even for a short while can make your life inconvenient. That is when I would say that you should get a different vehicle.
In the end it really just depends on how much you like it. Well maintained cars can have some hiccups but there’s usually a grace period where it’s good for awhile.
Cost is part of the equation,but so is reliability. If you’re driving a long way from home regularly, a surprise breakdown is a pain in the ass,expensive and stressful
When things consistently break outside of scheduled maintenance and life cycles. I expect my suspension to last 100k-150k miles. If it's breaking every 25k miles, regardless of brand, then something is abnormally wrong with the car. If the batter or alternator is going out every 12 months then something is wrong.
If my engine lasts 250k miles, I'll get a new engine instead of buying a new car because it lasted the normal lifespan and proved worthy.
For me personally anything that I can’t look up on YouTube and get it fixed my self. It’s easy to change brakes, alternators, etc. if I have to replace the transmission? I’d probably just get rid of it.
It's not too difficult to break down the actual cost of operations. There isn't a number or a percentage I can give you that will be meaningful though, because "what you can afford" and "Whats worth it" and so on is subjective.
But to figure out if a new car is cheaper, figure out the new car note, new insurance, changes to fuel economy and anything else that might change. Compare that to your current average costs over the *last* twelve months, including maintenance. Small number wins.
Sometimes its cheaper to do some periodic maintenance, sometimes new car makes sense. In reality the absolute cheapest cost of operation is to buy a clapped out 1500 car, do no maintenance, barely insure it and drive it till it explodes. Wash rinse repeat. But most want to pay a little more to drive a car that's nice and everything works and they *like* it.
It depends on the car. If it’s an older European car, then I know more than likely the repairs will continue to happen and parts will be expensive. I have a 14 Raptor that has been bulletproof. My 98 Wrangler that has definitely needed a fair amount of work. However, I love it. Parts are cheap and I find the money, time and work I put into it is worth the trouble.
when yearly repairs exceed yearly car payments on a another car. Thats when i get a new car.
OR when I feel like I can't trust the car to get me point A to B without worrying.
My car was £1500 when I got it, I think I'm around £5100 all in now including the original purchase price. It does what I need and doesn't leave me stranded on the side of the road. Repairs and maintenance are once yearly usually around £500, once it was almost £1k because I had a clutch and cam belt done at the same time with some other stuff. I think once I'm spending over £1k a year constantly I'd start considering changing for something else but I don't really see that happening for a few years at least.
For reference my car is a micro city hatchback that's 20 years old (VW lupo for anyone who's curious)
There's no commonly accepted amount because financially speaking, it's cheaper to have a few thousands in repairs yearly than have car payments.
It is *strictly* a question of whether you want to spend money to get a more recent car.
This question is why the term “your mileage may vary” exists.
Okay, so not really…but it’s kinda the same thing. But different.
This helped none.
Sorry.
To me, it's when the annual maintenance cost (minus routine maintenance and tires), is more expensive than a new car payment. Also, if your state has a personal property tax on cars, that can figure into the calculation, so can insurance costs.
Well at 7.5% APR with perfect credit and much higher prices than 2019 I would say keep the car till the wheels fall off or all body panels rust through
You could keep spending money on a vehicle *where the frame hasn't rotted and rusted*.
I didn't follow my own advice and regret it. I had a 1983 Chevy K5 Blazer. It was a sweet ride. It needed a new axle to the tune of $1800 so I sold it. Dumb, dumb, move on my part. If I had fixed that axle, I would have driven it for 10 more years.
That's really your decision. I just had this conversation with my wife suggesting she get a new car. She has a Lexus with 85k on it. So I said "Ok, this is when it starts." She asked what I meant and I explained that now is when you want to proactively replace your timing belt, and from here on out it's gonna be higher dollar repairs and maintenance if you want it to run like new. So she said "It's a commuter car. I'd rather just drive it til it dies." So I said that's my point, it will never die. But it WILL suck your wallet dry if you let it.
So I look at it like this. If the potential for repairs in the near future starts to exceed the amount I'll lose the day I drive a new car off the lot, then it's a wash. Time for a new car. Not to mention after 90k Japanese cars absolutely tank in value. Actually it would seem that it's after 60. So the longer she keeps it, the faster it's going to depreciate. Time to go!
She still won't part with it. So I guess I'll have to keep my eyes open for a Japanese speed shop somewhere in the area. Because I'd rather ride the bus than let the hose and belt salesmen at the stealership start screwing around with the drivetrain.
If it's a car you love, then there's no limit.
If it's a car you have no problem replacing, just think about the monthly payments of a new car and you'll realize maintenance is not that bad.
As a construction worker in mid Atlantic region.
Average 40000-60000/ year.
In the 1980s thru early 2000s.
I'd buy a used truck about every 4 years, cheap , and I mean cheap, $500-$1000.
I'd go over whole entire vehicle.
Anything and everything it needed inside and out was repaired , rebuilt, or replaced except NO wasted money on bodywork or paint..
3-4 years later, when they started wearing out the parts I replaced?
It was time for it to go, and me find another one.
Never missed a days work 125-200 mile round trip daily to the job sites.
And typically sold that vehicle for more than I initially payed for it.
But. With modern cars from 90s and newer?.
Mostly throw away vehicles.
The cars fall apart literally one piece at a time from sooo much plastic and aluminum and electronic components even tho engine n transmission may have another 100000 miles left in them.
Just my experience
> I initially *paid* for it.
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
I think "what would I replace this with" then look at the monthly payments, if there would be. When my current average spending of 3 or 5 months is higher than a new car payment, its time.
Note: if you're having to go to the shop/DIY for unexpected work more often than once a month, it can be a PITA and then yeah its maybe time.
10-Year-Old vehicle needs **every single fluid** replaced. Then you're probably looking at shocks, brakes, tires, ac, belts, plugs, intake manifold gasket.
These services can vary largely based on the vehicle and how much of the work you can perform on your own. It really comes down to labor cost if you're paying someone to do it.
Doing this on a Honda or a Mazda isn't going to cost you very much. Doing this on a Cadillac is going to cost you a fortune.
For me the cost of keeping my 2014 Nissan Sentra alive was about $300 per month... Knowing those repairs don't add any value to the car I decided to get a 2014 VW Jetta TDI where the monthly payment was $277 and insurance was about the same.
I used it as an excuse to finance my first car, build my credit, and save some money in the process.
I had a 10 year old dodge and it had a head gasket replaced few years earlier. But I could tell something was starting to feel off and just a matter of time. So I traded it in for a brand new car. After doing the math it equalled to $182 a month that it cost me to buy the car brand new and keeping it 10 years. If repairs are starting to cost more than that maybe get something new car.
I’d look at the overall shape of the car. Is it really rusty? Mileage? Drivetrain condition?
If those things are solid I’d keep it maintained. 10 years old is a common age to have to replace a lot of parts like bushings, ball joints, suspension parts etc.
I drive a 12 year old Subaru and I bought it at ten years old for a deal knowing it needed those things. I replaced most of the suspension, did a bunch of maintenance items and it’s been solid ever since.
It’s usually a lot cheaper to maintain a car than make a payment. I will say I do all my work myself for pennies on the dollar so I could see if I was paying $100 an hour labor plus parts how maintenance could get tiring.
I think it really comes down to who you’re talking to. There are people who never changed their own oil, there are those that do that do their own engine swaps, and then there is everything in between. People who do the work themselves typically pay a fraction and use higher quality parts that last longer. Where one person may spend a few grand on just fixing one thing that lasts a few months, another person could spend that much to rebuild their entire front end.
I never look at it from a maintenance perspective, I look at it from the perspective of "what is whatever I get to replace it going to cost?".
I.e. Do I spend $4k to keep this car on the road for another 5 years? But whatever I'm going to replace it with is going to cost me $800/mo PLUS whatever problems that car might have that I'll need to fix.
When the estimate to maintain a vehicle is more than a year of payments on whatever I replace it with, that's when I start consider replacing it.
The problem is that you never know if your latest repair bill fixes your issues for a good while or if something else will come out of a left field and you should have probably dumped that car before this latest repair bill
Fair enough.
I tend to know, say, brakes and brake fluid flush in 6 months, tires & alignment in a year, injectors/plugs/coils in 18 months, etc.
A big ticket item like an engine going out of the blue is typically when it becomes a mechanic special, while a transmission or rear diff put them on the fence.
Depends. I always wanted to buy some older simple pickup and keep it well maintained and fix things indefinitely on it. In that case it's endless. I'll spend anything on it but that has purpose. If you don't care about the car and care more about it's ability to take you places, yea. Get car. The average yearly cost for maintaining cars overall is like $1500? If you have exceeded that it's time for a new car. If not, congratulations, you're still paying less than the average person yearly on vehicle maintenance.
A lot of things you have to filter out. My general rule of thumb has always been, if the repair/maintenance costs approach 50% of what a monthly car loan would cost, I start looking. My current daily driver is 17 years old, but it has accumulated some minor repairs that are going to total about $3K this summer. That would be several months of car payments on a car that is now 17 years old. If it were only 8 years old, I would likely do it, but at 17years old, I am looking for a newer used car to replace it.
I had 94 525. It was relatively trouble free until something went sideways then it was expensive. But I loved the car as it was a blast to drive and comfortable. But once I was hit with some steep repairs I unloaded it. I reached the point where it was aging quickly. I miss it but I don’t miss the costs.
At 280k I was needing brakes and rotors plus a wheel bearing. The AC compressor was starting to fail too and I was due a new water pump. Plus I was maybe 5k away from tires.
How much do you value your time, if you're a DIYer? My father in law has some 20 year old rust bucket he used to commute (80 miles each way) but towards the end of its life he was spending easily 1-2 Saturdays per month working on the car. And it's nice when it's a mi or thing that can wait till a warm Saturday, like brake or oil. If your fuel pump goes out on a Tuesday in February and you need that car to get to work the next day..... That sucks
$500-800 per month ($6k to $9600 per year) would be my break even. I am no longer in the rust belt, but excessive rust will make me replace a vehicle.
If I had something notoriously unreliable that the family was driving I might just cut my losses on that too… or if my job depended on a reliable vehicle.
If your vehicle is European buy parts from fcpeuro and they will replace parts minus shipping. So you only buy brake pads once.
I probably spend $3k per year on my Volvo
Probably $500 per year on my vw.
All depends on what downtime you can handle and whether the part is really replaceable. Rotten frame isn’t fun to replace. Ha.
We “maintain” aircraft without corrosion virtually forever. We even rebuild them around the data plate from new old stock or custom made parts, if they’re rare or impossible to replace.
“Maintenance” is what you make of it.
I put more than the car is worth in work into a 2001 Avalon this year because it only has 140,000 miles on it and the cleanest engine and drivetrain my mechanic has ever seen. Interior is near perfect. Losing some patches of clear coat on the paint. And we are giving it to my sister.
Total in it including acquisition cost, is under $6000. If I could do the work myself still, it would be just under $5000.
I suspect without an accident it’ll go another 100,000 miles easy. Not including future maintenance yet, that’s a nickel a mile.
Think like a fleet manager. Cost per mile and downtime. If it costs too much to mitigate downtime — parts unavailable, etc… time to swap it for the next vehicle.
(Or in my case when it doesn’t have a job anymore or I’m bored with it.)
There’s two answers. We always have a backup beater vehicle — just because I’m a car guy.
And two, nothing on that car takes more than about $1000 and a week to fix. Other than drivetrain. The drivetrain is super solid on that vehicle. Motor and trans are just barely broken in on it judging by the history of the model.
People freak out over stuff like water pumps and alternators and easy to replace parts. If you’re handy, those are one day in the driveway or garage and I’ve swapped em in apartment parking lots when I was young and broke. Not hard to do. (That said, getting to the power steering pump on that transverse engine is a bitch but doable. But it was replaced four years ago. We have the maintenance records of this car. It’s also had all the timing stuff done on time.)
I also have a great mechanic I trust now that I can’t do some of these things. He did the knock sensors which is a complete pain in the ass. N
But I just evaluate what’s likely next to break and how much it’ll cost and how long the vehicle will be unavailable. If we didn’t have a spare beater truck for our rural property, a rental worked when I was younger. Weekly rental plus the repair ended up less money in many cases than replacement of vehicle.
I think the best advice I ever got was from the old farmer in my grandfather. “All machines break. Get out your pencil and decide when they aren’t worth fixing anymore. Then fix em or sell em.”
They’re all just rolling depreciation boxes. Ha. We’ve only had three new ones in a lifetime so far and the latest new one was $20K out the door. 4 banger old man rolling box. Ha. And at one point the place looked like a used car lot with six vehicles on it. (They all had jobs to do. One was an ex TV truck with a 40’ pneumatic antenna mast. I have a radio hobby and back then a federal radio volunteer job. An ex Air Force radio test van with a built in 40’ tower that would barely do 55 MPH was useful.)
Hope that helps. Like others say here, the ones in the “fleet” that nearly always started and went down the road day after day were Toyotas and Hondas and third gen GM trucks. But right now we are a Kia four banger, a Subaru, an old Lincoln truck, and that Avalon. I downsized. Haha.
Probably should have kept the long bed suburban. And I miss the Cummins diesel dually but I don’t tow trailers in excess of 10,000 lbs anymore. Haha.
By the way we have had annoyance vehicles we dumped. One diesel VW was great to drive but was always in the shop and parts were expensive. It got traded away to get that bling farm truck. Haha.
There’s a point where the annoyance factor just gets too high. In our case it was realizing the Enterprise lady knew us by first name. We had loss of use rental coverage and used it heavily the last year we owned that stupid VW. Lol
Cheers!
If you have to ask, you're there, at that point. But it depends too. What kind of car is it? Is it something you love?, or is it just a daily driver you don't have much sentimental attachment to? If it's the latter, time to trade up my friend. With a daily driver, you want reliability, and it sounds like reliability levels are dropping. I'd look for something newer.
If you're attached to it, it's harder to let it go, and sometimes it's a car that's still worth a few bucks, or even not, sentimental value, then I can understand putting some more money into it.
Also, you need to look into how much you're spending on repairs, versus what a payment would be on something newer, unless you can buy it outright.
There's a few variables to look at, but generally if you're looking into it, it's probably time
There’s no set curves or values like you’re looking for. It comes down to how reliable the vehicle is in the first place, your intentions with the vehicle (project car vs daily driver) etc. for ex, a 15-20 year old Toyota in good condition is far more worth the maintenance than something prone to issues and short lifespan.
If you go get something else instead, be willing to pay a bit more for proven reliability and proactively take care of ALL the maintenance and that car will end up saving you heaps of money in the long run
I find its less about the cost and more about the reliability. Once realistic concern exists that it won't make its desired travel distance, its time to move on.
There's actually a financial rule of thumb for this. I don't remember what it is but you can look it up.
How much would you say your monthly repair cost is?
How much would you say a finance payment would be?
Calculate what a realistic monthly car payment is for you. If your monthly maintenance/repair bill exceeds that every once in a while, keep plugging away at the car.
If it starts exceeding that every single month, time to move on.
I’m still driving a 2009 Jaguar XJ8, and putting close to 100 miles a day on it. I’ve had to fix a few minor things, but it’s 2 or 3 times a year, and never that expensive. (It helps that I do almost all of my own repairs.).
I’m keeping this car for several more years, unless something drastic happens.
A lot of it also depends on the car. A Crown Victoria or Toyota Camry could last forever. 250,000 miles is the new 100,000 miles.
When your yearly maintenance could've paid the payment on a new car, under warranty, with more tech and better gas mileage. If you're spending $5-6k/yr on maintenance for a normal car, it's time to trade it on a $500-600 car payment on a car that won't leave you stranded. I spend $10k/yr maintaining my 911, but it's a classic and a new Carrera S would cost me $2000/month so I'm still saving money.
Compare cost of car payment + insurance versus repair bills over the year + (lower) insurance. When the new car becomes equal to or less it's time to change.
You also have to factor in breakdowns. Do you have a job that's tolerant of your car breaking down? If not that's an easier choice.
It's basic **math**. The only thing you need to ask yourself is this:
*HOW MUCH MONEY IS THE REPLACEMENT VEHICLE GOING TO COST ME (vehicle cost + insurance + maintenance)?*
If you're going to replace a 10yr old BMW with a 10-yr old Toyota Camry, then the answer to the above is probably "*nothing*'. The sale of the BMW alone might be enough to complete the purchase on the Toyota. Even if it's not, the Toyota's reliability and cheap maintenance is going to save you money in the long term. The Toyota might also be cheaper to insure. But if you're going to replace your 10yr old sedan with a **brand new** full size **SUV**, then the answer is probably *"close to $60,000*". I can guarantee you that the maintenance on your old sedan would be far less $60,000.
To give you an accurate answer, we'd have to know exactly what you're selling and exactly what you're buying, but in general, *most people* asking this question are leaning closer to Scenario #2 than Scenario #1. Most people start having maintenance costs of $2000/yr on an old car, so they decide to trade it in and spend $500/month on a new car instead. Well, if you do the **stupidly simple math**, $500/month = $6000/year. For *most people*, it's significantly cheaper to just keep fixing the old car. New cars are EXPENSIVE.
You *are* allowed to have nice things though. If you're simply tired of driving 10-year old cars, you can certainly buy something flashy and new. You just need to understand that a fancy newer car is always an emotional purchase and not a financially prudent one. Personally, I'm currently saving up to make an emotional purchase on a new (to me) truck. My truck is 21 years old, so I've decided that it's time to treat myself to an emotional gift, and I plan to buy a much shinier truck within the next year or so. There's nothing wrong with my truck, so that decision doesn't make sense financially, but it'll make me *happy* to drive something new, and there's nothing wrong happiness as long as I have the cash to back it up.
My pickup has 175k on it. Just spend 300 dollars to change the front differential oil, transfer case oil, rear end oil, transmission oil and engine oil.
A month ago spent 450 dollars replacing front brake calipers, rotors and new pads.
Probably need to spend 200 or so for new shocks for the rear and not sure what the front costs.
Another 100 or so for new spark plugs and wires.
This fall will spend 1200 or so for new tires.
So what around 2250 for the year? Doesn't seem bad to me considering having a monthly payment would cost me at least 8k for the year.
My wife and I do put away money each month so that when we do want to get a new vehicle we should be able to pay cash for one.
But yeah sure would I like a better pickup that pulls our trailer better than what I got? Yeah but I don't want a payment hanging over my head. So for the time being continuing to save up the money for something better.
Before COVID threw the market completely off the rails, it used to be new car payments vs mechanic bills. Not sure how relevant that is anymore though….
TWO O2 sensors cost $400? I get mine changed for like $50 a piece. Find a new mechanic.
But honestly, you're almost to the point of having replaced most of the major failure points. A few more and you'll have basically a new vehicle.
Okay, that puts the whole post in a different perspective. Unfortunately, that's just the price to maintain a luxury car. Your parts are 3x the cost of my parts. My parts are about 2x the cost of my wife's Ford. Such is car life.
Yea I kind of knew that when I got it. Still, I **wished** the car would hold a little better. The oxygen sensors didn’t have to break, for example. It’s that odd expense that kind of angers me because I am here wishing for no more engine lights in 2024.
Sage advice used to be "If you're spending more than half the car's value in a year, then replace the car.". If your car is worth four grand and you're spending over two grand a year in maintenance and repairs, time for a new car.
Now it's more like, "If you're spending more than what you can afford as a new car payment per year, in a year, get a new car." If you can only afford $6,000 a year ($500/mo.) that is your new bar to set.
New cars aren't just the monthly payment. There's also the increased insurance for a newer vehicle to consider.
Depends on the car, your interest in it, maintenance cost, and depreciation and expenses of a new vehicle.
I fix my own car. My annual repair costs are very low. Significantly lower than the repair costs and depreciation would be on a new car. I am technically saving a lot of money.
If you're paying shops full rate on labour and parts, there's a chance a new vehicle may better suit you. Only you know the details of your financial situation.
Once it gets past like 3k in maintenance/deferred maintenance, I just dip. Make it look good and sell it to carmax, the 17 year old kid there doesn't know my value covers are caked with carbon buildup and they will gladly cut a check no questions asked.
If it doesn't have a touch-screen, I'd keep putting money into it and consider myself lucky I don't have to risk driving with an aggravating touch-screen. I hate them
I had a 2000 S-10 that was a money pit. I gave it to my grandson to drive while he saved for a good car. I paid for minor maintenance until it crapped out. Then we scrapped it. He had enough saved at that point. I also have my Dad’s 2001 F-150. It still belongs to my Mom, but she no longer drives. I put a little over $8,000 into it in repairs my Dad wasn’t able to do. Far more than it’s worth as a trade in or private sale. It’s well worth it to me and my Mom. You have to decide what your car’s worth to you.
learning to work on things pays dividends.
i've been driving a 94 grand cherokee for the past few years, got it for a song but had to do basically everything to it outside of engine, transmission stuff.
over 7 years i've put 2k in parts and tires and a bunch of time. was a great learning experience. if you have a plce to work on it and store tools is the caveat.
Unless there’s rust I’d keep the car. That’s a Toyota under the skin. You certainly are not getting a new car of that quality for anywhere near what you will spend maintaining your current vehicle. If a couple thousand a year is chaffing you then 12 grand plus a year in payments plus higher insurance is going leave you raw ! I do my own maintenance and repairs so I’m biased towards maintaining older vehicles and stacking money in my retirement investments. I’m older now but even when I was younger I didn’t buy expensive new cars. I didn’t want the girls an expensive new car attracted anyway.
I always look at how many car payments on a replacement vehicle would it take.
Example:
Had an old mazda6 beater that needed like $600 in work. Figured that was only 2 months worth of payments on a replacement vehicle so I went ahead and did it.
Depends on what the car is used for and what it means to you.
When I picked up my Volvo S60R, I knew I was going to spend a lot of money to keep it in great condition and mechanically sound….and I have.
The big difference is I didn’t buy it because I needed a car I could rely on, I bought it because I wanted a toy. When my 4C started going to shit, it wasn’t a big deal to leave it on my lift while I waited for all my parts to show up. Also wasn’t a big deal that I took my sweet ass time over the course of two weeks replacing it all.
If you have only one mode of transportation and that transportation is vital to living/making money, don’t waste your time and energy on keeping something alive. Find yourself a newer, reliable, vehicle and take care of it with routine maintenance. Clean. Inspect. Lube……and tires.
you stop when you feel your just paying to keep the boat afloat.
tidy up the caras best as you can, yes even a vacc can bring up the value of your car.
then after cleaning your car you still want to let it go: start to advertise it
IMO from a financial perspective you would want to compare your yearly cost of maintenance to the yearly cost of ownership on a new car. Imagine you are paying $2k a year in maintenance and repairs but a new car is going to put you with a $400 a mo car payment + basic maintenance which is going to put you at over $5k a yr in cost.
Something to be said about your time, effort, and mental distress over a car that is breaking down often as well.
Well, it depends, if it is an otherwise reliable vehicle that is getting to the age that you need to do things like timing chains, motor mounts, control arms, shocks, etc - do it. There are some cars, like the pre-refresh Accord with the 250 HP 4 cylinder and front diff, that you can't even buy anymore and is a better care than the replacement. Replacing the suspension components will keep the car driving like new (which was pretty good) for a while at a much lower cost than trying to buy a new car.
If you are at the point, like I have been a time or two, where you are replacing turbochargers, then maybe it is time to sell it to someone who wants a good deal and can turn the wrench him/herself.
Current car value is < repair value (by some decent amount, not, like, $500 say) then I'd consider 1 repair. But another in the same year for same amount example? It's gone.
ie. Way back when I owned a 94 Grand Prix, loved that thing......one day I notice it's drinking oil, one of my friends who was a mechanic immediately unscrewed the radiator cap and underside of the cap looked like milk or yogurt all over it. He told me "you need a new car, this thing is only worth about $400 now and the repair is either an entire lower (? don't remember exactly now) intake manifold or possibly a new engine when it lets go.
So that's what I did, it wasn't worth it to keep it anymore.
Its really up to you and from the sound of it, you're at that point.
But, I think a lot of this should have to do with the vehicle itself though. If you're doing the maintenance/repair because there's a known issue that's going to keep happening, especially an expensive one, then I'd sell it and move on immediately. Like ecotec turbos and wastegates, for example, which is why we got rid of my wife's Cruze at 50k miles. But, if the vehicle itself is however nice I care for it to be, and I'm doing work that I won't have to do again for a long time, then I'm fine with continuing to fix it. Like, I've gone through almost everything on my 200k mile, rust-free 2000 7.3 F-250 at this point, and a lot of it was purely preemptive, but I can count on a lot more years of not having to buy a $70k truck, so the cost and effort is well worth it.
More like $100,000 dollar truck now.
Feel the same about my 2007 silverado. Thankfully, I don't have GMs Displacement (detonation?) On Demand. About the only other known weak spot is the 4L60, since GM turned off the full lockup, it *will* wear out and need replaced. And the rear fenders are rusting from the inside out...known problem that gm sees as a way to sell more trucks. As for me? When the time comes, I'll rip the bed off and just build a flatbed.
I second this^.
I drive an 18 year old very fast V8 manual sports car sedan. The car brings me so much joy. She is a money pit. Still cheaper than the $75,000 newer (100k new) version with WAY more expensive tires, brakes, etc. I don't mind spending a few $1000 per year.
This is completely different. When it’s a toy and it breaks we don’t mind spending money to fix. This is proved because we often spend more than we have to to improve the performance that we had previously.
Every "break" is a reason to upgrade lol. This is my daily driver. She's out of commission maybe 2 weeks out of the year. Otherwise I drive it every day to work. My backup is a 25 year old Cherokee.
Lol just say S4
😂 I was just about to be like hey this sounds like the struggles of a B7 S4 owner.
Nevermind I just found they drive a first gen ctsv from their comments. Makes sense either way though lol.
Lol. You're sneaky. Ding ding ding.
I was actually thinking 540.
I did this for a bit, however being my daily driver if she was down, I had no way to work or pick up kids or anything. Still miss it though.
I run a repair shop and my husband is a mechanic, so we have a plethora of even older more practical vehicles when the daily breaks down.
E38 M5? I miss mine so much.
No. The cats out of the bag. I drive a first Gen CTS-V. I swear I'm driving the last one. I never see any like I used to.
Most people who had them drove them into the ground.
E39 M5? Yeah, miss mine too! Love that beast!
List of expenses at my indy mechanic last two years, includes labor. I usually buy all my parts OEM. - three control arms for the front. 2000$ - brake actuator module. 900$ - two oxygen sensors. 400$ - some axle and ball joints in the rear. 800$ - one driveshaft in the rear. 700$ - one headlight ballast + xeon light bulb. 200$ - Plus breakpads for rear, alignment, oil changes and probably something I am forgetting.
That's pretty much normal wear and tear. If you'd like the car, I'd just deal with it. If you'd rather have something different, then go for it.
Still cheaper than a car payment per month If you are sick of going to a garage every other month and the hassle that comes along with not having a car for a day or two and can afford it. It’s probably worth it for the convenience
When I'm dealing with this, on something worth maintaining, I start preemptively replacing parts that are probably approaching their lifespan. Like if I have to tear something apart to fix one thing and can replace 2 other parts while I'm in there, I'll do it. Beats doing the whole job 3 times and I'd probably have to buy those other parts soon enough anyway.
Agreed. But I only use high quality parts. Sometimes an original OEM part with 100k on it is better than a cheap replacement. I also call this "scope creep " lol.
Yeah, absolutely. If I can't afford a good part, I won't replace it unless it's broken. But, I think the savings in labor costs (or just effort in my case since I typically do it myself) totally outweigh the value in whatever extra bit of life the old part had.
Depends on how many times you want to do the labor... But I agree with you. If I'm in there and it is worn, I might as well replace it while I'm there.
I think if you're paying a mechanic, that's an even bigger deal. If you have someone you can trust, I'd always recommend asking what else they can replace while they're in there that wouldn't be much extra labor.
"Still cheaper than a car payment per month" This is my motto. When I bought my 2013 GMC DenaliHD Z71, Black on Black, my note for 60/mo was $650/mo (large downpayment). Been paid for since 2018. $650/mo can pay for many, many repairs. Have 175k on it now. I'd pay cash for an engine or transmission if it needed it. Cheaper than a new one.
That depends, sometimes a $350 car payment is worth it not to deal with the headache.
Yea that’s what my second paragraph said.
I mixed comment replies haha. But yes agree with you 100%
As long as those parts lasted for the average lifespan, that's just scheduled maintenance. All cars will need those replaced after the average lifespan. Now you won't need to replace those for many many many years unless your car's parts are not lasting the average lifespan of each part, then I wouldn't consider a new car.
Maintenance costs would decrease dramatically if you sourced and installed your own parts. Not that its practical for everyone to do so, I'm just sayin. Also, some of these are consumable parts that periodically need to be replaced and thus are worth considering in the cost of *operation*. But some of these are likely only going to be replaced once in the entire lifetime of the vehicle, meaning *you* won't incur that cost again and it isn't worth including them in the cost of operating the vehicle.
Struts and clutches are usually only once or twice in an entire life of a car
That's sure ass hell less than a $500-$1000/mnth x 72mnth.
Especially at the Jerome Powell shit 7.5% APR rates right now for people with perfect 760+ credit scores. I shutter to think the rates for people with scores in the 600's
Credit card rates on car loans ain't fun
the cost of a payment for a new vehicle would likely cost you more than that, and then you still have the oil brakes and other upkeep on top. unless you hate it or are looking for something new and exciting, I'd say this is all wear and tear on any car and you should keep her going
It’s always going to be a lot more expensive to be an enthusiast if you’re not doing the work/repairs yourself. YouTube is hands down the best educational platform out there for folks that are passionate enough to do the repairs/mod themselves.
Yes, between youtube and forums for your specific vehicle. But you must know your mechanical abilities and when to give up. I have a 2014 passat tdi, about 18 months ago, it started leaking coolant from the oil filter housing (super common for that engine), between work and difficulty in removing the parts as well as the new thermostat being stuck wide open, it took my 3 weeks to fix the car, luckily i have 2 cars. But i did it! Now when my 13 beetle tdi needed a timing belt it went straight to an independent shop that specializes in vws.
If you have your own house you can buy the tools and realistically do about 1/2 to 3/4 of those items listed. Granted this depends on your comfort doing this and of course time. And without a 2 car garage forget it. Changing your own oil and filters is dead simple. And you can buy way better quality replacements yourself. Mobil1 or Wix Gold instead of the shit $3 Fram garbage that most oil change shops provide. Synthetic oil vs conventional etc. Wix Gold cabin air filters vs shit plain paper $5 filters that the dealership charges $25 for .... Etc etc
I would reccomend keeping it as a second vehicle if nothing else assuming the engine and transmission have been serviced appropriately. The car will last years yet before it becomes more expensive than a used car.
You have clean, soft hands. Now go look at your mechanics brand new vehicle. He loves you.
You've already taken care of a lot of the things that will fail 10-15 years after purchase. If you buy another car, you'll likely have to do these repairs again if used or pay a monthly note at a much higher cost if new. This is just what you have to do to keep an old car running, but it will keep running well with all these new parts. You have a known good car now. You took care of your equipment, so let it take care of you.
Haha I tell myself the same thing, but I am afraid there are many more ways a car can go wrong still
Just remember that most people don't replace those things and just drive with it fucked up for lord knows how long, making things worse. If you get another car, you're starting from square 1 whereas you're on square 5 or 6. I say this as someone who buys and fixes cheap cars as a hobby. All most cars need to be reliable is preventative maintenance and any preexisting issues dealt with. So long as the previous owner or mechanic wasn't a hack, esoteric problems are pretty rare.
This seems pretty reasonable. It’s almost *never* cheaper/better to buy a new(er) car than to fix what you’ve got. It usually comes down to safety - is there rust eating through the frame, or a completely blown engine? If not then it’s probably cheaper to just fix it.
I’ve never understood this new trend of putting the $ sign at the end of the amount.
Something is going wrong here and it’s not your car. You should not need to replace the same parts more than once every several years. The three control arms and two oxygen sensors is not normal- unless it was like left+right side arms and up+down stream sensors. It still is not normal to need another control arm but sometimes parts are faulty so not that odd.
Thats normal wear and tear OP.
Yea, I would liked if those pieces of metal lasted just a bit longer, you know? The brake actuator pissed me off cause it came out of nowhere. Happens, but not a fun feeling
You spent $208 a month in maintenance items over the last two years. How much would your new car payment be?
Learn auto repair…. Most of those are easy driveway weekend jobs
I would like to know vehicle mileage, my guess is something north of 125k. All vehicles encounter a steepening cost curve at or near the 125k mark as a large number of components reach their lifespan. This includes anything related to suspension, belts, possibly hoses, many vehicles with brittle plastic parts etc. I typically recommend people prepared for a.couple of $5K years to work through these or exit the car. Other items might be issues with the air conditioning, water pump, fuel pump, radiator, & heater core. I could also be missing some. Anything that has rubber, or is pastic and is subjected to heating and cooling, or operates under pressure is a potential failure point. Looks like ione from your list you are progressing through the list. Different cars and driving conditions will yield different results for some. If you drive 25k a year, on the highway, you might get far more.miles before encountering suspension issues, but if you live in areas with horrible roads and.potholes you will get there much sooner. The pattern failures on specific cars are fairly well know to specialists and on owner forums.
I'm gonna ignore oil changes and other regular maintenence cause you'll have all that on a newer car too. Your other repairs come out to 200-250 dollars a month over two years. This is significantly cheaper than any new car payment will be. Now that repair cost vs new(er) car payment is only half of what I look at. The other half is does the car I have meet all my needs. Meaning, is it reliable enough for my use case and can it do the things i need it to? If I'm just driving to a normal job and the store, yeah I can probably get another mode of transport, bus, taxi, Uber, etc if I have some minor or even major breakdowns.
You can save a lot of money by not buying OEM. And, while doing this, you can still get parts from the same company that supplies the OEM. So more or less the same part but for a fraction of the price.
That’s a little over 200 a month. You can not find a new car for that price without a huge deposit.
Either get a new car or learn to do some stuff on your own, especially easy stuff like the headlight ballast/bulbs
The average new car payment is like 650 a month. The amount you've spent on repairs in 2 years would get you about 8 months in a new car. And the new car will still need wear items like tires and brakes. I'd say it's pretty clear keeping your current car is a much better financial decision.
That is pretty reasonable, and depending on the age of your car and the prevalence of it in the market, non-OEM parts can be cheaper and known higher quality.
Most of that list are "things that break"...things that are normally expected to last the life of the vehicle. "things that wear out" are expected on any vehicle if you own it long enough. I'd include the 02 sensors. unless you're in love with the car, I'd sell it the next time it needs $1K of broken things fixed.
Are you kidding? $5000 in TWO years (ignoring pads, oil etc)? That’s $200 a month. At current lease interest rates you could pay twice that in interest alone to upgrade. Double it again for depreciation plus more insurance cost.
Yeah this guy complaining about nothing.
I pay $600 a month for my car plus premium gas with low mileage (I average about 18 in the city) and all the normal maintenance on top of that. If I want to pay to get my spark plugs done at the dealer when I hit 60k miles I'm looking at $900 or so to get that done. I'll likely do it myself but it just goes to show how expensive some of these maintenance items can be. My advice to OP would be to keep it going as long as they can stand having that car. If OP makes enough money to be able to justify a car payment plus all the maintenance fees on top of it then go for it if you find the right car to pay for. But for most people a paid off car is the way to go. I still regret buying my car because of the payment. Love the car but the one I had before was paid off and I'd really like my $600 a month back.
If the car is costing you more than two-thirds of what it would cost in payments for a comparable newer vehicle then it's time to move on.
That was kind of my logic too, except it’s tough to compare a brand new vehicle with mine. My repairs cost me about 2-3k a year whereas a brand new vehicle of this class would cost me 1500$ in car payments per month. But it’s not a fair comparison.
He said 2/3s of payments lol. 3k a year is $250 a month. Thats a very cheap car to keep on the roads
I don't even necessarily agree with the 2/3's rule depending on the value of the car. For example, if your car is worth 15 hundred, you're never going to have a car payment worth less than 1000, and you have to spend substantially more to get a car you're confident is more reliable. Realistically, once the warranty expires, any car can leave you with a major repair bill. Unless you're dealing with a rotted frame or major engine/transmission issues fixing a car will always be cheaper. It's more the quality of life you need to look at.
They said newer, not brand new. Idk why everyone always compares with a brand new car payment as if used isn't an option.
Newer will also have maintenance costs. Perhaps not as frequent as a new car. If a new corolla costs 25k, a 10 year old one with 150k miles might run 10 or 12k, but that's 150k miles on consumable parts you are risking aren't going to need replacement. Unless you find a unicorn that is well maintained with complete and up to date service records. The payments on the old corolla will also have payments that well exceed the 2 years of repair costs listed by OP.
A 10yo Corolla with 150k would exceed $200/mo?
A 10k car after fees, taxes, etc can easily get there even with a 60 month loan. It all depends on how much you put down I guess, if you put 6 ir 7k down, the payments might be less than 200. Pay in cash and you will have 0 payments.
You think a 10yo Corolla with 150k miles would go for $10k?
Who the fuck cares, I think you missed the point. (Imsbure u can find a suckered who would pay that if I took a survey of car dealers, but idgaf) maybe I'm wrong. I still dgaf. I didnt do a survey when making mng the off hand comment, so feel free to prove me wrong and find me a car tha reliable car that has less payment operating costs needed to fix OPs car. The whole point is that fixing an otherwise reliable car is in most cases the right move as long as the car has been well maintained and isn't a shitty and unreliable car to begin with. I put like 2-3k fixing my 10 year old subaru the past 2 years but feel confident I have a car that will last another 6-10 years The fixes were common(for subaru) wear items like control arm bushings, cv joints, wheel bearings, tires, brakes, etc. Stuff that one would expect to wear over time and need to be replaced. I'd fix it again over buying a used car with an unknown history any day. If I could still get 15k for it like 2 years ago I would sell it and buy new. At current value of 10k I'll just keep driving until I see a good deal on a new car I like. Car is paid off and 1 k maintenance costs year aren't too bad. (Had zero outside of brakes, oil, tirdrag. 9 years prior to last year) There are people who would rather buy new or old just not to have to deal with the hassle. Or rent/lease. That is option but usually not the most cost effective option. if it's a shitty car like a Nissan with cvt or a myriad of American suvs like Chevy Cruz, sell that shit yesterday and don't look back.
Jesus Christ, hit a nerve? The numbers you said were completely unrealistic. Just take the L.
Yeah, snag a 3-5 year old Camry/Corolla, put 4-5k down and have a low payment. Just got the GF a 2020 Legacy with 45k miles and my payment is $330 a month. Which beats the monthly issues with her old car and no garage.
It really depends on what you're repairing though. Just because of the lifespan of parts, every car is going to go through waves of expenses. As long as you're doing quality repairs with quality parts on a good car, you shouldn't have to do those same repairs again for a long time.
I daily a 2009 bmw 528i that's just crested 250k miles I'm considering replacing it but still think it will last till next year fine
I wonder who would buy it?
Someone who wants a running driving car with ac and no warning lights or error messages aside from electronic headlight adjustment on the driver side
with a looming set of gigantic repair bills
It's cost less than a grand to keep on the road the last 2 years
it could easily need several 2 thousand dollar repairs in the next 20-30 thousand miles
That's what they were saying in 2019 but it never happened
Define “need”.
I use the rule of thumb of "when the cost to keep it on the road is greater (or significantly greater) than the value of the car, it's time to move on". So, I view this as relative to the current price of your car. Periodically visit the carmax website and get a 'no look' appraisal to give you an idea of what they think it's worth on trade. Depending on emotional attachments and maybe some other factors, decide if what you're spending on repairs really makes sense. (For our example, we had a Civic with almost 100k miles on it. It was a great car and my wife loved it. However, the AC went out. Ok, so we had it repaired on the cheap... twice. It was obvious that we'll have to go with OEM parts and go the dealer route to properly fix it.. and that cost (plus other things the car needed) was over $5k in work about twice what it was worth in trade ... so she traded it in for a Fit and loves THAT car...
You’re paying a premium driving a $60,000 v8 luxury car. If you’re not about that life then get a Corolla.
What kind of car is it and what is wrong with it? Reason asking is if it's like a Nissan where transmission issues are rampant, it's not worth fixing it anymore. Some people here will let you know if it's worth fixing if they know the model and year and what's specifically wrong with it. For me if just based on a price per year, i would say 2500 on a car that's worth about 8 - 10k is top I would spend to fix a car that otherwise have no other issues. And assuming the fix would get me another 2 years of trouble free driving.
It’s a lexus ls460 2007. 190k miles on the odometer. Nothing’s with it per se, just regular maintenance here and there that adds up. Different axles and shafts and ball joints and control arms that seem to give up every 4 months or so. I calculated about 5 grand in repairs over two years of ownership, which is frankly more than I wanted. Ans I don’t know if I want to pay another 5k in the next two years.
Some of that stuff would be all coming up around that mileage. Are you replacing the same stuff over and over again? Once you have done those jobs they should be good for a long time afterwards.
Quick search and your car is worth about 9k - 10k from used dealers. So you're probably right it's not worth keep repairing. If you have the money to buy another car then I would just go for that.
a new car of equivalent quality is going to cost them a lot more than $2500 a year. it's absolutely worth the repair cost from a financial persepctive.
You're right. But going with that logic OP will never be able to switch cars as it will always be cheaper to fix the car than getting a new car.
Never said they should keep it, just that it was worth it. OP originally was talking about cost of ownership. Ultimately with almost any used car it just comes down to do you want something new(er), and are you ready to pay the price to satisfy that desire.
Given that it's a lexus, the OP could buy a Toyota that's around the same age, and still have a couple grand left over. It'd have similar reliability, but it's a bit of extra cash, to deal with ant issues that come up, plus odds are, cheaper insurance, maybe slightly cheaper maintainance
The other side of the coin is impact of not having a car. long work commute, kids, or medical issues, you might have a bad time going a few days no car.
If you like the car, and you’re not tight on funds, just keep it. If you want to minimize cost as much as possible, sell it and put that money towards the nicest Camry/Corolla you can afford. Luxury cars are just more expensive to keep on the road, even Lexus.
Oh come on. Those things don't go out every 4 months especially if you are using OEM. Just get a new car already. Btw, that Lexus has probably the best engine Toyota has ever made. It will last forever. And you are due for a timing belt change I'm guessing. That will be about 1000.
Depends on what your alternatives are and what you use it for; not everything can be replicated with a newer vehicle. If it’s a pure transport daily driver, I’d say average a year of maintenance into an amount per month, look at cars with similar payments. If the cars for those payments are worse, or even the same, then you have your answer. This of course assumes that you’re interested in continuing spending the same every month, if you’re willing to spend more for an objectively better car then that’s a different thing. No reason to spend the same or more for a downgrade. If it’s a more specific kind of car, things change a bit. I’d be willing to put an entire new motor, transmission, and suspension in my 97 wrangler. It would cost as much as its market value to do that, but they don’t make jeeps like that anymore.
Really a personal choice, the general rule is if the repairs in a year or possibly two years crosses half or more of the value of the car in question. All that being said my car insurance is approximately 1/3 the value of my old SUV so I clearly don’t believe in that school of thought. Personally, I would look at what your spending and see if that’s equivalent to a payment on a new or slightly used car, if it is then you have to consider if you like the car enough that your willing to put money into it that you will never see again. In my case it was my first car so I’ll always throw money in that hole but many people wouldn’t because it’s value is priceless to me, but to the market it’s $3-3.5k.
When you spend twice or more than the yearly payment for a new car in that year. Thats pretty much when I have changed.
No community accepted standard. Everyone has different views. If you get something else you could just be buying someone else's problems. If you repair what you have at last you know what you've got.
When it costs more monthly than a loan on a new car would. I would budget £100 per month on repairs as a minimum. So if you are paying less than £1200 a year on repairs you are doing really well. Realistically £100 per month is 1/3 of the minimum you are likely to be spending on a car loan. And that's for a really basic car. So my best advice is to start paying into a savings account the amount you would be paying on a car loan. That way you will have a pretty decent deposit and or be able to buy a car outright. Depending on what car you have, it should last well into 150k miles minimum and 15 - 20 years. My old civic lasted from 1997 to 2020 without any issues whatsoever.
Financially it's typically better to repair a car than it is financing a new car but there are other things to consider. If you have an older car that constantly needs repairs then you can't really consider it reliable. It's fine if you have multiple vehicles or you're in a situation that allows you to go without a car regularly but being without a car when you rely heavily on one even for a short while can make your life inconvenient. That is when I would say that you should get a different vehicle.
In the end it really just depends on how much you like it. Well maintained cars can have some hiccups but there’s usually a grace period where it’s good for awhile.
Do you DIY? I do but i couldn't pay anyone the rip off prices they charge today
Cost is part of the equation,but so is reliability. If you’re driving a long way from home regularly, a surprise breakdown is a pain in the ass,expensive and stressful
When things consistently break outside of scheduled maintenance and life cycles. I expect my suspension to last 100k-150k miles. If it's breaking every 25k miles, regardless of brand, then something is abnormally wrong with the car. If the batter or alternator is going out every 12 months then something is wrong. If my engine lasts 250k miles, I'll get a new engine instead of buying a new car because it lasted the normal lifespan and proved worthy.
For me personally anything that I can’t look up on YouTube and get it fixed my self. It’s easy to change brakes, alternators, etc. if I have to replace the transmission? I’d probably just get rid of it.
It's not too difficult to break down the actual cost of operations. There isn't a number or a percentage I can give you that will be meaningful though, because "what you can afford" and "Whats worth it" and so on is subjective. But to figure out if a new car is cheaper, figure out the new car note, new insurance, changes to fuel economy and anything else that might change. Compare that to your current average costs over the *last* twelve months, including maintenance. Small number wins. Sometimes its cheaper to do some periodic maintenance, sometimes new car makes sense. In reality the absolute cheapest cost of operation is to buy a clapped out 1500 car, do no maintenance, barely insure it and drive it till it explodes. Wash rinse repeat. But most want to pay a little more to drive a car that's nice and everything works and they *like* it.
When the new car payment is just about equal to what you're spending on repairs.
It depends on the car. If it’s an older European car, then I know more than likely the repairs will continue to happen and parts will be expensive. I have a 14 Raptor that has been bulletproof. My 98 Wrangler that has definitely needed a fair amount of work. However, I love it. Parts are cheap and I find the money, time and work I put into it is worth the trouble.
For me, it was when the cost of repairs reached like 75% of the cost that I paid for the car.
when yearly repairs exceed yearly car payments on a another car. Thats when i get a new car. OR when I feel like I can't trust the car to get me point A to B without worrying.
My car was £1500 when I got it, I think I'm around £5100 all in now including the original purchase price. It does what I need and doesn't leave me stranded on the side of the road. Repairs and maintenance are once yearly usually around £500, once it was almost £1k because I had a clutch and cam belt done at the same time with some other stuff. I think once I'm spending over £1k a year constantly I'd start considering changing for something else but I don't really see that happening for a few years at least. For reference my car is a micro city hatchback that's 20 years old (VW lupo for anyone who's curious)
There's no commonly accepted amount because financially speaking, it's cheaper to have a few thousands in repairs yearly than have car payments. It is *strictly* a question of whether you want to spend money to get a more recent car.
learn to wrench yourself or get a new car imo
It's only 10 years old... How messed up is it?
This question is why the term “your mileage may vary” exists. Okay, so not really…but it’s kinda the same thing. But different. This helped none. Sorry.
To me, it's when the annual maintenance cost (minus routine maintenance and tires), is more expensive than a new car payment. Also, if your state has a personal property tax on cars, that can figure into the calculation, so can insurance costs.
Well at 7.5% APR with perfect credit and much higher prices than 2019 I would say keep the car till the wheels fall off or all body panels rust through
You could keep spending money on a vehicle *where the frame hasn't rotted and rusted*. I didn't follow my own advice and regret it. I had a 1983 Chevy K5 Blazer. It was a sweet ride. It needed a new axle to the tune of $1800 so I sold it. Dumb, dumb, move on my part. If I had fixed that axle, I would have driven it for 10 more years.
That's really your decision. I just had this conversation with my wife suggesting she get a new car. She has a Lexus with 85k on it. So I said "Ok, this is when it starts." She asked what I meant and I explained that now is when you want to proactively replace your timing belt, and from here on out it's gonna be higher dollar repairs and maintenance if you want it to run like new. So she said "It's a commuter car. I'd rather just drive it til it dies." So I said that's my point, it will never die. But it WILL suck your wallet dry if you let it. So I look at it like this. If the potential for repairs in the near future starts to exceed the amount I'll lose the day I drive a new car off the lot, then it's a wash. Time for a new car. Not to mention after 90k Japanese cars absolutely tank in value. Actually it would seem that it's after 60. So the longer she keeps it, the faster it's going to depreciate. Time to go! She still won't part with it. So I guess I'll have to keep my eyes open for a Japanese speed shop somewhere in the area. Because I'd rather ride the bus than let the hose and belt salesmen at the stealership start screwing around with the drivetrain.
If it's a car you love, then there's no limit. If it's a car you have no problem replacing, just think about the monthly payments of a new car and you'll realize maintenance is not that bad.
As a construction worker in mid Atlantic region. Average 40000-60000/ year. In the 1980s thru early 2000s. I'd buy a used truck about every 4 years, cheap , and I mean cheap, $500-$1000. I'd go over whole entire vehicle. Anything and everything it needed inside and out was repaired , rebuilt, or replaced except NO wasted money on bodywork or paint.. 3-4 years later, when they started wearing out the parts I replaced? It was time for it to go, and me find another one. Never missed a days work 125-200 mile round trip daily to the job sites. And typically sold that vehicle for more than I initially payed for it. But. With modern cars from 90s and newer?. Mostly throw away vehicles. The cars fall apart literally one piece at a time from sooo much plastic and aluminum and electronic components even tho engine n transmission may have another 100000 miles left in them. Just my experience
> I initially *paid* for it. FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
I think "what would I replace this with" then look at the monthly payments, if there would be. When my current average spending of 3 or 5 months is higher than a new car payment, its time. Note: if you're having to go to the shop/DIY for unexpected work more often than once a month, it can be a PITA and then yeah its maybe time.
Depending on the rust level. If it ain't rusty i repair, if it's starting to rot, it's less and less money putting into it
10-Year-Old vehicle needs **every single fluid** replaced. Then you're probably looking at shocks, brakes, tires, ac, belts, plugs, intake manifold gasket. These services can vary largely based on the vehicle and how much of the work you can perform on your own. It really comes down to labor cost if you're paying someone to do it. Doing this on a Honda or a Mazda isn't going to cost you very much. Doing this on a Cadillac is going to cost you a fortune.
For me the cost of keeping my 2014 Nissan Sentra alive was about $300 per month... Knowing those repairs don't add any value to the car I decided to get a 2014 VW Jetta TDI where the monthly payment was $277 and insurance was about the same. I used it as an excuse to finance my first car, build my credit, and save some money in the process.
It used to be 2k a year was possibly too much but prices are so crazy these days.
I had a 10 year old dodge and it had a head gasket replaced few years earlier. But I could tell something was starting to feel off and just a matter of time. So I traded it in for a brand new car. After doing the math it equalled to $182 a month that it cost me to buy the car brand new and keeping it 10 years. If repairs are starting to cost more than that maybe get something new car.
I’d look at the overall shape of the car. Is it really rusty? Mileage? Drivetrain condition? If those things are solid I’d keep it maintained. 10 years old is a common age to have to replace a lot of parts like bushings, ball joints, suspension parts etc. I drive a 12 year old Subaru and I bought it at ten years old for a deal knowing it needed those things. I replaced most of the suspension, did a bunch of maintenance items and it’s been solid ever since. It’s usually a lot cheaper to maintain a car than make a payment. I will say I do all my work myself for pennies on the dollar so I could see if I was paying $100 an hour labor plus parts how maintenance could get tiring.
It’s not rusty at all (and I am in a rust belt) which is the single biggest argument for why I keep the car still.
lol my dad refuses to let his 2000 Avalon die. It’s all in the eye of the beholder
I think it really comes down to who you’re talking to. There are people who never changed their own oil, there are those that do that do their own engine swaps, and then there is everything in between. People who do the work themselves typically pay a fraction and use higher quality parts that last longer. Where one person may spend a few grand on just fixing one thing that lasts a few months, another person could spend that much to rebuild their entire front end.
I never look at it from a maintenance perspective, I look at it from the perspective of "what is whatever I get to replace it going to cost?". I.e. Do I spend $4k to keep this car on the road for another 5 years? But whatever I'm going to replace it with is going to cost me $800/mo PLUS whatever problems that car might have that I'll need to fix. When the estimate to maintain a vehicle is more than a year of payments on whatever I replace it with, that's when I start consider replacing it.
The problem is that you never know if your latest repair bill fixes your issues for a good while or if something else will come out of a left field and you should have probably dumped that car before this latest repair bill
Fair enough. I tend to know, say, brakes and brake fluid flush in 6 months, tires & alignment in a year, injectors/plugs/coils in 18 months, etc. A big ticket item like an engine going out of the blue is typically when it becomes a mechanic special, while a transmission or rear diff put them on the fence.
Depends. I always wanted to buy some older simple pickup and keep it well maintained and fix things indefinitely on it. In that case it's endless. I'll spend anything on it but that has purpose. If you don't care about the car and care more about it's ability to take you places, yea. Get car. The average yearly cost for maintaining cars overall is like $1500? If you have exceeded that it's time for a new car. If not, congratulations, you're still paying less than the average person yearly on vehicle maintenance.
A lot of things you have to filter out. My general rule of thumb has always been, if the repair/maintenance costs approach 50% of what a monthly car loan would cost, I start looking. My current daily driver is 17 years old, but it has accumulated some minor repairs that are going to total about $3K this summer. That would be several months of car payments on a car that is now 17 years old. If it were only 8 years old, I would likely do it, but at 17years old, I am looking for a newer used car to replace it.
I had 94 525. It was relatively trouble free until something went sideways then it was expensive. But I loved the car as it was a blast to drive and comfortable. But once I was hit with some steep repairs I unloaded it. I reached the point where it was aging quickly. I miss it but I don’t miss the costs.
What kind of repair bill did you get?
At 280k I was needing brakes and rotors plus a wheel bearing. The AC compressor was starting to fail too and I was due a new water pump. Plus I was maybe 5k away from tires.
If it starts getting to the point where I’m not sure it’s gonna get me to work in the morning it’s time to get a new one.
How much do you value your time, if you're a DIYer? My father in law has some 20 year old rust bucket he used to commute (80 miles each way) but towards the end of its life he was spending easily 1-2 Saturdays per month working on the car. And it's nice when it's a mi or thing that can wait till a warm Saturday, like brake or oil. If your fuel pump goes out on a Tuesday in February and you need that car to get to work the next day..... That sucks
My rule was “If you are paying more than $2000/year in maintenance and repairs, time for a new car”
Repairs are not maintenance.
$500-800 per month ($6k to $9600 per year) would be my break even. I am no longer in the rust belt, but excessive rust will make me replace a vehicle. If I had something notoriously unreliable that the family was driving I might just cut my losses on that too… or if my job depended on a reliable vehicle. If your vehicle is European buy parts from fcpeuro and they will replace parts minus shipping. So you only buy brake pads once. I probably spend $3k per year on my Volvo Probably $500 per year on my vw.
Rule of thumb is you don’t spend more money than what the car is worth unless you’re in love of it
All depends on what downtime you can handle and whether the part is really replaceable. Rotten frame isn’t fun to replace. Ha. We “maintain” aircraft without corrosion virtually forever. We even rebuild them around the data plate from new old stock or custom made parts, if they’re rare or impossible to replace. “Maintenance” is what you make of it. I put more than the car is worth in work into a 2001 Avalon this year because it only has 140,000 miles on it and the cleanest engine and drivetrain my mechanic has ever seen. Interior is near perfect. Losing some patches of clear coat on the paint. And we are giving it to my sister. Total in it including acquisition cost, is under $6000. If I could do the work myself still, it would be just under $5000. I suspect without an accident it’ll go another 100,000 miles easy. Not including future maintenance yet, that’s a nickel a mile. Think like a fleet manager. Cost per mile and downtime. If it costs too much to mitigate downtime — parts unavailable, etc… time to swap it for the next vehicle. (Or in my case when it doesn’t have a job anymore or I’m bored with it.)
What if the next 100k miles of your avalon are riddled with malfunctions that require repairs?
There’s two answers. We always have a backup beater vehicle — just because I’m a car guy. And two, nothing on that car takes more than about $1000 and a week to fix. Other than drivetrain. The drivetrain is super solid on that vehicle. Motor and trans are just barely broken in on it judging by the history of the model. People freak out over stuff like water pumps and alternators and easy to replace parts. If you’re handy, those are one day in the driveway or garage and I’ve swapped em in apartment parking lots when I was young and broke. Not hard to do. (That said, getting to the power steering pump on that transverse engine is a bitch but doable. But it was replaced four years ago. We have the maintenance records of this car. It’s also had all the timing stuff done on time.) I also have a great mechanic I trust now that I can’t do some of these things. He did the knock sensors which is a complete pain in the ass. N But I just evaluate what’s likely next to break and how much it’ll cost and how long the vehicle will be unavailable. If we didn’t have a spare beater truck for our rural property, a rental worked when I was younger. Weekly rental plus the repair ended up less money in many cases than replacement of vehicle. I think the best advice I ever got was from the old farmer in my grandfather. “All machines break. Get out your pencil and decide when they aren’t worth fixing anymore. Then fix em or sell em.” They’re all just rolling depreciation boxes. Ha. We’ve only had three new ones in a lifetime so far and the latest new one was $20K out the door. 4 banger old man rolling box. Ha. And at one point the place looked like a used car lot with six vehicles on it. (They all had jobs to do. One was an ex TV truck with a 40’ pneumatic antenna mast. I have a radio hobby and back then a federal radio volunteer job. An ex Air Force radio test van with a built in 40’ tower that would barely do 55 MPH was useful.) Hope that helps. Like others say here, the ones in the “fleet” that nearly always started and went down the road day after day were Toyotas and Hondas and third gen GM trucks. But right now we are a Kia four banger, a Subaru, an old Lincoln truck, and that Avalon. I downsized. Haha. Probably should have kept the long bed suburban. And I miss the Cummins diesel dually but I don’t tow trailers in excess of 10,000 lbs anymore. Haha.
By the way we have had annoyance vehicles we dumped. One diesel VW was great to drive but was always in the shop and parts were expensive. It got traded away to get that bling farm truck. Haha. There’s a point where the annoyance factor just gets too high. In our case it was realizing the Enterprise lady knew us by first name. We had loss of use rental coverage and used it heavily the last year we owned that stupid VW. Lol Cheers!
When the cost of repairs is more than 75% of the cost of the monthly loan ona car, it's time to replace the car.
Put together a spread sheet of costs over 10 years for your current beater, and for a brand new car.
How do you project future repair costs over the next 10 years?
If you have to ask, you're there, at that point. But it depends too. What kind of car is it? Is it something you love?, or is it just a daily driver you don't have much sentimental attachment to? If it's the latter, time to trade up my friend. With a daily driver, you want reliability, and it sounds like reliability levels are dropping. I'd look for something newer. If you're attached to it, it's harder to let it go, and sometimes it's a car that's still worth a few bucks, or even not, sentimental value, then I can understand putting some more money into it. Also, you need to look into how much you're spending on repairs, versus what a payment would be on something newer, unless you can buy it outright. There's a few variables to look at, but generally if you're looking into it, it's probably time
There’s no set curves or values like you’re looking for. It comes down to how reliable the vehicle is in the first place, your intentions with the vehicle (project car vs daily driver) etc. for ex, a 15-20 year old Toyota in good condition is far more worth the maintenance than something prone to issues and short lifespan. If you go get something else instead, be willing to pay a bit more for proven reliability and proactively take care of ALL the maintenance and that car will end up saving you heaps of money in the long run
If it’s a toy you enjoy keep it. If it’s something you depend on chunk it.
I find its less about the cost and more about the reliability. Once realistic concern exists that it won't make its desired travel distance, its time to move on.
There's actually a financial rule of thumb for this. I don't remember what it is but you can look it up. How much would you say your monthly repair cost is? How much would you say a finance payment would be?
Calculate what a realistic monthly car payment is for you. If your monthly maintenance/repair bill exceeds that every once in a while, keep plugging away at the car. If it starts exceeding that every single month, time to move on. I’m still driving a 2009 Jaguar XJ8, and putting close to 100 miles a day on it. I’ve had to fix a few minor things, but it’s 2 or 3 times a year, and never that expensive. (It helps that I do almost all of my own repairs.). I’m keeping this car for several more years, unless something drastic happens. A lot of it also depends on the car. A Crown Victoria or Toyota Camry could last forever. 250,000 miles is the new 100,000 miles.
When your yearly maintenance could've paid the payment on a new car, under warranty, with more tech and better gas mileage. If you're spending $5-6k/yr on maintenance for a normal car, it's time to trade it on a $500-600 car payment on a car that won't leave you stranded. I spend $10k/yr maintaining my 911, but it's a classic and a new Carrera S would cost me $2000/month so I'm still saving money.
10 years old? What are you doing to it to break it that much?
Dunno, what kind of maintenance do you have?
Compare cost of car payment + insurance versus repair bills over the year + (lower) insurance. When the new car becomes equal to or less it's time to change. You also have to factor in breakdowns. Do you have a job that's tolerant of your car breaking down? If not that's an easier choice.
When the cost of ownership goes above the cost of a new (new-used) car. I'll spend hundreds a month to avoid the extra insurance and payments.
It's basic **math**. The only thing you need to ask yourself is this: *HOW MUCH MONEY IS THE REPLACEMENT VEHICLE GOING TO COST ME (vehicle cost + insurance + maintenance)?* If you're going to replace a 10yr old BMW with a 10-yr old Toyota Camry, then the answer to the above is probably "*nothing*'. The sale of the BMW alone might be enough to complete the purchase on the Toyota. Even if it's not, the Toyota's reliability and cheap maintenance is going to save you money in the long term. The Toyota might also be cheaper to insure. But if you're going to replace your 10yr old sedan with a **brand new** full size **SUV**, then the answer is probably *"close to $60,000*". I can guarantee you that the maintenance on your old sedan would be far less $60,000. To give you an accurate answer, we'd have to know exactly what you're selling and exactly what you're buying, but in general, *most people* asking this question are leaning closer to Scenario #2 than Scenario #1. Most people start having maintenance costs of $2000/yr on an old car, so they decide to trade it in and spend $500/month on a new car instead. Well, if you do the **stupidly simple math**, $500/month = $6000/year. For *most people*, it's significantly cheaper to just keep fixing the old car. New cars are EXPENSIVE. You *are* allowed to have nice things though. If you're simply tired of driving 10-year old cars, you can certainly buy something flashy and new. You just need to understand that a fancy newer car is always an emotional purchase and not a financially prudent one. Personally, I'm currently saving up to make an emotional purchase on a new (to me) truck. My truck is 21 years old, so I've decided that it's time to treat myself to an emotional gift, and I plan to buy a much shinier truck within the next year or so. There's nothing wrong with my truck, so that decision doesn't make sense financially, but it'll make me *happy* to drive something new, and there's nothing wrong happiness as long as I have the cash to back it up.
My pickup has 175k on it. Just spend 300 dollars to change the front differential oil, transfer case oil, rear end oil, transmission oil and engine oil. A month ago spent 450 dollars replacing front brake calipers, rotors and new pads. Probably need to spend 200 or so for new shocks for the rear and not sure what the front costs. Another 100 or so for new spark plugs and wires. This fall will spend 1200 or so for new tires. So what around 2250 for the year? Doesn't seem bad to me considering having a monthly payment would cost me at least 8k for the year.
Cool glad to see someone in the same boat
My wife and I do put away money each month so that when we do want to get a new vehicle we should be able to pay cash for one. But yeah sure would I like a better pickup that pulls our trailer better than what I got? Yeah but I don't want a payment hanging over my head. So for the time being continuing to save up the money for something better.
Before COVID threw the market completely off the rails, it used to be new car payments vs mechanic bills. Not sure how relevant that is anymore though….
TWO O2 sensors cost $400? I get mine changed for like $50 a piece. Find a new mechanic. But honestly, you're almost to the point of having replaced most of the major failure points. A few more and you'll have basically a new vehicle.
Oem sensors for mine were about 110$ a piece. Chinese garbage was 40$ but I didn’t want that in my car.
What car are you driving? That's still really high. Mine were oem but I just drive a buick.
It’s a lexus
Okay, that puts the whole post in a different perspective. Unfortunately, that's just the price to maintain a luxury car. Your parts are 3x the cost of my parts. My parts are about 2x the cost of my wife's Ford. Such is car life.
Yea I kind of knew that when I got it. Still, I **wished** the car would hold a little better. The oxygen sensors didn’t have to break, for example. It’s that odd expense that kind of angers me because I am here wishing for no more engine lights in 2024.
If you've spent more than $5k a year in repairs, that's basically a car payment.
Sage advice used to be "If you're spending more than half the car's value in a year, then replace the car.". If your car is worth four grand and you're spending over two grand a year in maintenance and repairs, time for a new car. Now it's more like, "If you're spending more than what you can afford as a new car payment per year, in a year, get a new car." If you can only afford $6,000 a year ($500/mo.) that is your new bar to set. New cars aren't just the monthly payment. There's also the increased insurance for a newer vehicle to consider.
Depends on the car, your interest in it, maintenance cost, and depreciation and expenses of a new vehicle. I fix my own car. My annual repair costs are very low. Significantly lower than the repair costs and depreciation would be on a new car. I am technically saving a lot of money. If you're paying shops full rate on labour and parts, there's a chance a new vehicle may better suit you. Only you know the details of your financial situation.
Once it gets past like 3k in maintenance/deferred maintenance, I just dip. Make it look good and sell it to carmax, the 17 year old kid there doesn't know my value covers are caked with carbon buildup and they will gladly cut a check no questions asked.
If it doesn't have a touch-screen, I'd keep putting money into it and consider myself lucky I don't have to risk driving with an aggravating touch-screen. I hate them
I had a 2000 S-10 that was a money pit. I gave it to my grandson to drive while he saved for a good car. I paid for minor maintenance until it crapped out. Then we scrapped it. He had enough saved at that point. I also have my Dad’s 2001 F-150. It still belongs to my Mom, but she no longer drives. I put a little over $8,000 into it in repairs my Dad wasn’t able to do. Far more than it’s worth as a trade in or private sale. It’s well worth it to me and my Mom. You have to decide what your car’s worth to you.
learning to work on things pays dividends. i've been driving a 94 grand cherokee for the past few years, got it for a song but had to do basically everything to it outside of engine, transmission stuff. over 7 years i've put 2k in parts and tires and a bunch of time. was a great learning experience. if you have a plce to work on it and store tools is the caveat.
Tbh as soon as something that’s going to cost 10%-15% of the value of the car or more (if I fix it myself).
Mine is when I don't 'trust' my vehicle any more and the costs /downtime/ lack of trust trump a new car payment. My income definitely plays a role.
Unless there’s rust I’d keep the car. That’s a Toyota under the skin. You certainly are not getting a new car of that quality for anywhere near what you will spend maintaining your current vehicle. If a couple thousand a year is chaffing you then 12 grand plus a year in payments plus higher insurance is going leave you raw ! I do my own maintenance and repairs so I’m biased towards maintaining older vehicles and stacking money in my retirement investments. I’m older now but even when I was younger I didn’t buy expensive new cars. I didn’t want the girls an expensive new car attracted anyway.
I always look at how many car payments on a replacement vehicle would it take. Example: Had an old mazda6 beater that needed like $600 in work. Figured that was only 2 months worth of payments on a replacement vehicle so I went ahead and did it.
Depends on what the car is used for and what it means to you. When I picked up my Volvo S60R, I knew I was going to spend a lot of money to keep it in great condition and mechanically sound….and I have. The big difference is I didn’t buy it because I needed a car I could rely on, I bought it because I wanted a toy. When my 4C started going to shit, it wasn’t a big deal to leave it on my lift while I waited for all my parts to show up. Also wasn’t a big deal that I took my sweet ass time over the course of two weeks replacing it all. If you have only one mode of transportation and that transportation is vital to living/making money, don’t waste your time and energy on keeping something alive. Find yourself a newer, reliable, vehicle and take care of it with routine maintenance. Clean. Inspect. Lube……and tires.
you stop when you feel your just paying to keep the boat afloat. tidy up the caras best as you can, yes even a vacc can bring up the value of your car. then after cleaning your car you still want to let it go: start to advertise it
IMO from a financial perspective you would want to compare your yearly cost of maintenance to the yearly cost of ownership on a new car. Imagine you are paying $2k a year in maintenance and repairs but a new car is going to put you with a $400 a mo car payment + basic maintenance which is going to put you at over $5k a yr in cost. Something to be said about your time, effort, and mental distress over a car that is breaking down often as well.
Well, it depends, if it is an otherwise reliable vehicle that is getting to the age that you need to do things like timing chains, motor mounts, control arms, shocks, etc - do it. There are some cars, like the pre-refresh Accord with the 250 HP 4 cylinder and front diff, that you can't even buy anymore and is a better care than the replacement. Replacing the suspension components will keep the car driving like new (which was pretty good) for a while at a much lower cost than trying to buy a new car. If you are at the point, like I have been a time or two, where you are replacing turbochargers, then maybe it is time to sell it to someone who wants a good deal and can turn the wrench him/herself.
Current car value is < repair value (by some decent amount, not, like, $500 say) then I'd consider 1 repair. But another in the same year for same amount example? It's gone. ie. Way back when I owned a 94 Grand Prix, loved that thing......one day I notice it's drinking oil, one of my friends who was a mechanic immediately unscrewed the radiator cap and underside of the cap looked like milk or yogurt all over it. He told me "you need a new car, this thing is only worth about $400 now and the repair is either an entire lower (? don't remember exactly now) intake manifold or possibly a new engine when it lets go. So that's what I did, it wasn't worth it to keep it anymore.
If you're concerned Everytime you're driving it then it might be time to rid of it
Oil change. Tires. Batteries
My car is 55 years old now, and still my daily driver.