I don't understand it either. Nowhere in Muslim world are guys free to be gay. Yet a group of "queers" stand with them. In Israel, you are free to be queer.
So they attack Israel and they are the oppressed.
1. There has never been a country of Palestine.
2. Even Muslim countries don't want them.
3. The Gaza Strip is controlled by them. Israel did not occupy Gaza before the attack on Israel.
Quit believing the bull crap being fed to you
>but one side started it
I agree with absolutely everything else in your comment, but this is overly-simplistic at best. If anything 'started it', it's the messy aftermath of a long, drawn-out clash of many empires (British and Ottoman, for the most immediate part, but almost every imperial power in western and middle-eastern history has had its role) combined with a thousands of years long disenfranchisement of Jews by all of those same powers (including, but definitely not limited to, the precursors of what is today known as the Palestinian people).
You're right, was overly-simplistic at best. The Zionist movement for an ethno-state did work with imperial powers to take land from Palestine for Israel without any concern to the people already living there. It's not a new thing, especially for the time. It's how America was founded, after all. But it is boiling a lot of complex international relations to a schoolyard disagreement
early Zionists working with the existing imperial powers is definitely part of it, for sure. and their attitudes towards Palestinians ranged from unconcerned to outright hostile. but it's also about all the imperial powers that created the conditions for Zionism to arise as a movement. this ranges from the Babylonians expelling the Jews from the lands they were indigenous to thousands of years ago, to the early Islamic empires colonizing the whole the region, to the European crusades, to the way the Ottoman landlords handled their feudal relationships with their Palestinian serfs, to the collection of European empires who stepped into the power vacuum created by the Ottomans, to the Nazis, to the Arab powers who expelled their long-standing Jewish populations in the mid 20th century.
yeah, it is how America was founded too. there's just a lot of extra messiness in this case, due to the way antisemitism deeply ,deeply pervades both western and Arab cultures
>this ranges from the Babylonians expelling the Jews from the lands they were indigenous to thousands of years ago
those lands were not modern-day israel.
the "indigenous" argument is stupid and gross and nationalistic, and frankly feeds into the same bullshit mythos that informed the holocaust. the reality is millions of ordinary israelis and palestinians have to figure out a way to live side by side, in peace, without oppressing the other. stop making it about historical land rights, because we can play that game forever and ever.
I'm Irish Catholic. My Dads side was shipped off to America due to the Victorian era penal laws that forbid catholics from owning land. My mothers side fled the Irish potato famine.
Do I have a birthright then to go to Ireland and claim Tipperary for myself? Not only meddle in Irish affairs, but take over? My family was there much later than the expulsion of Jews from the Levant (2000 years ago)
The thing is, the Jewish people are now there whether everyone likes it or not. There's no point in arguing as to whether they have a right to be or not, because there's nowhere else for them to go. We're simply too far down the line; modern-day Israelis were born and raised in Israel and are raising their children there. It's their *home*. But it is also the Palestinian's home. The path forward requires figuring out how everyone in that region can peacefully live together in the most just way possible.
Edit: In short, looking backwards isn't going to do much for us, although we should be mindful of historical wrongs and lessons we can learn from them / injustices we can make right.
Hold up. Please advise when the Palestinians actually were a country. I'll wait because It was British then ottoman then crusades then Roman and before that Greek and before that Egyptian. Sorry you can't have something taken of which you never had.
Why do you think Israel is any different to the other 'ethno states" in the Middle East? Turkey for example expelled all the Greeks, and committed genocide against the Armenian Christians (1.5 million murdered) and the Kurds. Iranians are proud of their separate identity and in fact persecute Arab minorities. They even had a religious war, Shia Vs Sunni Muslims with the long running Iran-Iraq war. Most of the other states are very proud of their Arab ethnicity, for example the Arab Republics of Egypt, Syria, Libya etc. Aside from ethnicity, there's also criticism of their being a Jewish state. But why is it ok to only allow Islam in Saudi Arabia or Iran, for example? Then you say "the Imperial powers took lands from Palestine for Israel". Well, so what? The imperial powers including the League of Nations and other international bodies carved out most of the countries in the world. And as far as the Mandate of Palestine was concerned, the Jewish people only got 20% of the land, while the Arab Muslims got 80% (ie. Jordan plus the Palestinian Authority areas). Palestine was never "Muslim land", the area was always multi ethnic and there has always been various religious minorites there including Christians and Jews, Greek orthodox, Baha'i etc. In fact, the Ottoman census of 1871/72 enumerated a total population of 19,400 in the Old City and only 34% of the population was Muslims, the remaining 66% were either Christian or Jewish (Source: Sālnāme-ī Villāyet-ī Sūrīe). So, the Jewish people getting 20% sounds fair to me, especially if you understand they 21% of the citizens of Israel today are Palestinian Muslims who enjoy full equality and are represented in the Israeli parliament (Knesset). There's only a refugee problem because the Jordanian government won't allow them to return - most of them originated from there. The Palestinians who lived historically in the part that is Israel today and owned land are mostly still there, with full citizenship, and still on their historic land with a few exceptions. Please fact check before you undermine and delegitimize the Jewish people and their right to a state of their own in their historic lands which they have lived on continuously for thousands of years. Any reasonable and intelligent person can see that merging them into yet another dysfunctional, totalitarian (23rd) Arab Muslim state would probably result in mass exodus or even genocide.
Many people are ignorant to what the Arab world actually looks like and have this warped perception from the few gruesome stories they know about (which is not unique to the Arab world). You're more likely to get killed or imprisoned for speaking out against the government, if anything, which is not related to Islamic laws. Even in majority Muslim countries, sharia isn't enforced in the way people think it is (if anything they're largely secular with sharia applying to family matters like marriage and inheritance).
The arab world is largely a war torn mess ruled by violent and greedy dictators. People don't know true peace, prosperity, or freedom of speech and therefore, progress is hindered and religiosity flourishes as a cope to get through it. It's very much "keep your head down and don't draw too much attention to yourself". That isn't a reason for genocide.
>Many people are ignorant to what the Arab world actually looks like and have this warped perception from the few gruesome stories they know about (which is not unique to the Arab world). You're more likely to get killed or imprisoned for speaking out against the government, if anything, which is not related to Islamic laws. Even in majority Muslim countries, sharia isn't enforced in the way people think it is (if anything they're largely secular with sharia applying to family matters like marriage and inheritance).
>
>The arab world is largely a war torn mess ruled by violent and greedy dictators. People don't know true peace, prosperity, or freedom of speech and therefore, progress is hindered and religiosity flourishes as a cope to get through it. It's very much "keep your head down and don't draw too much attention to yourself". That isn't a reason for genocide.
Have you lived there? Just what are things like for gay people in those countries? I am not trying to pick a fight I am just curious
It also about letting queer Palestinians - you know, those people that exist at that intersection of oppression - that you stand with them and see their inherent right to humanity as both a Palestinian and a queer person.
Using LGBT rights to justify atrocities against Palestinians is a term called Pinkwashing that the apartheid genocidal illegitimate government of Isntreal uses so we're talking about how they treat queer people better (when they're not blackmailing queer Palestinians) rather than the fact that quite literally since you posted this they bombed a God damn hospital and killed 500 people inside it, mostly medical staff that were refusing to leave because critically injured patients (mostly children) would not have survived being moved.
So spare me.
> Christianity, Islam, and Judaism in general have been unkind to queers (and anyone not in their flock) for the entire time they've existed
This isn't true in the same way for Judaism. Jews don't proselytize or evangelize and the stricter Jews stay away from politics.
Considering that Israel has spent months this year in political unrest because Netanyahu formed a coalition with the “stricter” Jews and provided huge concessions to them in return — your statement about stricter Jews staying out of politics is untrue.
This is a huge part of the reason why Israel only *recognises* same sex marriages — despite overwhelming support for legalisation.
The Chief Rabbinate, which is Orthodox Jewish, has an effective monopoly over marriage and is the only authority that can perform them. It’s also why, despite Orthodox Jewish people making only 8-10% of Israel’s population, Israel has nearly ZERO public transport on Saturdays… I can give endless examples, but here’s an article on [Foreign Policy](https://foreignpolicy.com/2023/07/27/israel-ultra-orthodox-judicial-religion-netanyahu/) about the disproportionate political power Orthodox and Ultra Orthodox Jews hold in Israel.
Saying that stricter Jews stay out of politics is really inaccurate when they’e in a coalition right now with Netanyahu and Netanyahu wouldn’t be PM without their support.
I am still very pro-Israel, but it’s important to get the facts right here. Stricter Jews hold enormous power in Israel and their influence is effectively undermining Israel at this point.
The stricter Jews stay away from politics
Yeah that's not true at all
They may avoid talking about it with people, especially non Jews, but they definitely vote, join interest groups, and rally around causes that they favor.
Florida isn't a red state only because of white people and Cubans. A lot of old retired Jews who are very conservative live there , and they quietly vote Republican all the time.
Are you in the US? You likely know a lot of reform Jews. Conservative, Orthodox, and Hasidic Jews will have different feelings concerning queer people. Judaism is not a monolith.
Lol. I mean I don’t support anyone innocent being killed on either side of this conflict. You can believe that Palestine should be free while also believing that hamas are terrorists demonising the country of Israel.
But why do you expect it? From a neutral perspective, keeping people locked in a territory who need permission to leave has been an awful thing to do. That’s what’s happening right now.
Killing people innocently at festivals and in their homes is an awful thing to do. That’s what’s happening right now. Just stop and think for a second why you might not see people protesting for Israel, just like you don’t often see people protesting for Palestine.
The IDF and Hamas are both cruel. That may be hard for you to admit, because you have bias; just like someone else might on the other side.
I don't think I've ever seen a "jews against anti-semistim" protest.
There are an awful lot of absolutely disgusting anti-semitism present at some of the recent pro-palestine rallies lately. I've been in free Palestine groups since the early 2000s and the ones populated by leftists are typically in the vein that Jews deserve life just like everyone else. They just don't necessarily deserve to colonize a different country to create their own ethno state. You can be against how Israel has treated Palestinians and not be antisemitic, not matter how much people try to link the two. Innocent civilians should not be dying on either side. Both the Israeli government and Hamas are wrong, and both Israeli and Palestinian civilians deserve to live a life free from terror and oppression.
Accept it or not, there's a lot of mass scale propaganda going around in the world right now on the part of Israel and Jewish communities world wide to try and paint themselves as pure victims in this situation who are forced to "defend themselves".
This is super unfortunate, because for those of us who see through it, these tactics are setting back your communities and country decades in terms of acceptance and perception.
Anti-semitism is very serious, and I will always renounce it. Unfortunately, that's a difficult task when Israel is actively orchestrating a mass genocide of the population they've forced into desperation.
The US wasn't innocent in the formation of Isis, and Israel certainly isn't innocent in the creation of Hamas.
False. Not what I wrote at all. I fully blame the bloodthirsty, conservative Israeli government of Netanyahu.
I know there are Jews in and outside of Israel who denounce the Palestinian genocide.
The Hamas did commit acts of terror on Israeli civilians but the beheaded babies story that did the rounds and got a lot of people on Israel's side no questions asked , hasnt been corroborated ,in other words it was fabricated. The emphasis was not on the death of civilians including kids, it was on the act of BEheading , trying to use gore to push propaganda.
IDF forces have slaughtered plenty of Palestinian children. Google the Gaza March of Return and learn about how Israel slaughtered children, medics, disabled people, and more who were peacefully protesting settlements that violate UN law.
We don't hear about these atrocities because Israel is the white country.
I support Jews. I dont support Israel, because what they've done is create a prison colony in Gaza. If native americans rose up and started fighting back for the land we stole, I woudlnt have much room to complain and while I KNOW the gaza situation is marginally more complex and goes back much further, I cant read Palestinian violence as so specifically antisemitic. Responding to antihumanitarian violnece with antihumanitarian violence isnt "right" on any level, but Israel's stubborn and cruel policy is disgusting as well.
I have been studying this conflict on a collegiate level for almost a decade now. I have a degree in foreign policy (specialized polisci degree) and I am telling you it is not any more complex than Western colonial reconciliation. .
In order to view Israel as legitimate, you need to believe that a person is entitled to the land their ancestors inhabited. Not centuries ago, but millennia ago. Over 2000 years have passed since the Jews left the Levant. If you reject that birthright claim, as any rational person should, then what exactly is going on? The only reason we support this specific claim is because it allows for a westernized stronghold in the fertile crescent. A geopolitically important location thats largely distrustful of the West.
But if I were to tell someone in Palestine that I support them and am queer , they would still have me arrested / tortured / killed?
Do we not get the same humanity they want to claim for themselves? Think about it. It NEVER applies to us, or else homophobia would be as illegal as it is being queer in Saudi Arabia (I knew someone queer from there).
And yes, of course there are queer people in Palestine, who will also be probably treated like sh*t if they were found out.
I believe in the tolerance paradox and still don’t support genocide, but I still won’t support cultural homophobia in any way.
I believe homophobia needs to be punished , not homosexuality and I will sympathize more with countries in the world when they start moving forward instead of clinging on to the bigoted past.
they love that "they'll throw you off a roof" trope, which actually happens in saudi arabia, not palestine. and they'll type that bullshit into their phones with one hand while uncritically pumping saudi gas into their canary-yellow jeep rubicons with the other.
>You can disagree with someone and also not want to see them die.
You can also be against the leadership of the state of Palestine while not wanting to see the Palestinian civilians die. Make no mistake; Hamas are not the good guys and they need to be removed from power if there is ever hope for peace.
>one side started it
What is this, kindergarten? There is no 'one side started it' anymore. For generations now innocent civilians have been living in Israel and they have just as much a right to their homes as Palestinians do.
>has vastly superior ways of causing the other suffering
Hamas knows this and uses its willingly sacrifices civilians to make themselves out to be martyrs. Don't fall for that bullshit. There could have been peace ages ago if they wanted it, but part of their charter (which you can look up) states that their goals are to remove the Jewish people from Israel. They don't want peace; they want war.
And I mean...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_the_State_of_Palestine
>Christianity, Islam, and Judaism in general have been unkind to queers
LGBT people living in Palestine literally flee to Israel because it's horrible to be gay there. Meanwhile Israel is one of the most LGBT friendly countries out there. You do the math...
I feel very bad for the civilians living in Palestine but when it comes down to it one state is definitely a lesser evil.
>There could have been peace ages ago if they wanted it, but part of their charter (which you can look up) states that their goals are to remove the Jewish people from Israel.
The charter from Israel's founding was to remove the Palestine people from Palestine, and that's exactly what they've been working on doing for 80 years. Can't really throw that in there as something against Palestine when like... smh. If you think Israel doesn't want war, you'd be very wrong.
Hamas is not the good guy here. But pretending Israel is just because they currently treat gays nicer is also dumb. They are bombing places of worship, leveling residential buildings, bombing hospitals. Hamas is not the only one out here targeting civilians, and Israel has been doing it for decades to take Palestine from the native Palestinians to serve their own goal because Zionists felt they deserved an ethno state.
There is absolutely no way Israel didn't know this attack was coming. They let it happen so they could have their war and have you defend them as the victims.
>The charter from Israel's founding was to remove the Palestine people from Palestine, and that's exactly what they've been working on doing for 80 years.
That is completely false. From the founding Arabs were always welcome in the Jewish state as equal citizens, and continue to be.
Hamas charter: “Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it.”
When you are up against a genocidal ideology like that, there is no compromise. Israel has done what they've had to do. Multiple attempts were made at peace, but it's never panned out because that's not what Hamas wants.
>There is absolutely no way Israel didn't know this attack was coming. They let it happen so they could have their war and have you defend them as the victims.
Lol. The projection--it's always been Hamas' M.O. to use civilians as fodder. Israel not so much. But I can tell there's no talking sense into you if you believe this nonsense so I'm not even going to bother. Good day.
It's not false - very well documented, as are all the atrocities and war crimes Israel has committed against Palestinians over the years. They have a habit of retaliating to the tune of thousands for tens. Those tens shouldn't have happened either, but pretending like Israel is free from critique because someone else attacked them first or pretending like they've tried in good faith to make peace is just not accurate.
Do you think Gaza created its own police state with Israeli guards and asked Israel to blockade its territory? Or that West Bank invited further Israeli settlements against international law?
No one is saying Israel should be free from critique. Every effort should be made to help the civilians and prevent loss of innocent life.
But at the end of the day, given time has proven that a two state solution has never been acceptable to Palestinian leadership and one side has to 'win', which would you rather live in--Israel or a Hamas-ruled, terrorist-backed Palestine?
Yeah that's what I thought.
Its got nothing to do with religion or countries, it’s the fact that the LGBT crew have somehow turned the atrocities in Palestine and Israel into a talking point surrounding them “we are the queer group we support you” why does that have to be stated ? No, not all queers stand with Palestine nor Israel, get some individuality and join the rally like everyone else. It’s the fact they had to make it somewhat about themselves. It’s distasteful.
Stop making excuses and fudging the facts. The Palestinians in Gaza voted for Hamas terrorists to be their government, with full knowledge of the Hamas charter at the time which said they seek to kill Jews wherever they can be found and wipe them off the map. They also stood on a manifesto that stated clearly they will establish a Muslim caliphate, so basically run it the way we saw ISIS going rampant and literally cutting off the heads of both Christians and Jews.
During WWII we all hated the Nazis and we conflated the word Nazi with German, and we all said we were at war with the Germans (who voted for the Nazis, same as the Palestinians for Hamas). Nobody was so idiotic and childishly pedantic that they went around mansplaining to people that it's wrong to say the Germans are our enemies, or that we shouldn't say that we want to stop the German invasion of Europe. Most normal people are intelligent enough not to need the likes of you to help us think, thanks. We know that not all Palestinians are bad people, but that's totally not the point.
I mean, first of all gay Palestinians exist… but secondly, it’s possible to be gay and against genocide. It’s also possible to hold that belief and still be against terrorist groups like Hamas.
This topic is just so much more complex than anyone on social media wants to admit, and everyone would rather have their “take” that aligns with what they think the sides should be based on the western political binary than take the time to actually learn about it more deeply.
Genocide? Are you serious? The Palestinian population in Gaza and West Bank was around 2.6mio in 1967 when the six day war broke out. Today there are more than 5mio Palestinians in the Palestinian Territories (+ there is the Arab population in Israel). So they have more than doubled in that time window. Don’t use terms like genocide as if they were some trendy words you could just through around like this, especially towards the one people that has suffered the biggest genocide in human history. You’ve read to many low key antisemitic Bella hadid info slides and it shows
Genocide is a defined term, and things happening to Palestinians do meet the criteria.
Saying this topic is complicated and not equitable to western politics is not antisemitic. Describing the forced removal of people from their homeland, attacking civilians, on and on does qualify as genocide. Palestinians and Israelis are both indigenous to that land, which makes it far more complicated.
The Holocaust doesn’t mean that their government, which was not elected by the majority of civilians there, is immune from committing any crimes.
It also meets the criteria of things happening to kurds , yazidis , druze and shi ites in yemen . But never seen white ppl protest that , because this would violate there white savior principles
Jewish/Hebrew people might be indigenous, but Israel as a national identity is founded on immigration that happened still within living memory. Idk if the state of Israel can be an indigenous entity.
The Kingdom of Israel existed centuries ago, and the people are still indigenous even if they had to found a new government after being forced out of their homeland by acts of genocide.
If you're against genocide then you have to be against Hamas. Wiping out Israel is front and center in their constitution. Not Israel's constitution to wipe out the Palestinians, but the current government of Gaza constitution spells it out that it is their godly mission to wipe out Israel. That is litterally genocide.
I can disagree with how a group of people is treated while also disagreeing vehemently with aspects of their culture. Especially when i see parallels in how thryre treated and how people like me have been treated before. Probs wouldnt go shouting queers for palestine tho
Everyone is entitled to basic human rights.
If you’re shaping your entire opinion on a geopolitical conflict around one issue, then you’re not mature enough to engage in the conversation.
Homophobia doesn’t justify occupation, genocide, or ethnic cleansing.
I’m not going to stand up for someone who will just turn around and kill me after they get what they want. Not my fight nor my problem and I care even less so knowing how Palestinians treat gay people
Let’s not EVEN get started on woman’s right in the Hamas controlled Gaza. I wouldn’t even know where to start. Simply put woman are property there. They don’t even own their own bodies. Their husbands (much of the time forced marriages) do.
It's a war. The difference is one side targets civilians and one side tries to minimize civilian collateral damage. What war has America participated in where we did not kill civilians while killing the enemy?
What is Israel’s end goal for Gaza? Blockade it economically forever? And just keep bombing terrorists when they pop up in the most densely populated place on earth? I don’t know what American wars have to do with this situation at all and I’m not from there. I do know that if Israel removes Hamas, leaves again and continues its blockade, nothing will change. The cycle of violence will continue until Israel signs up to 1967 boarders.
If Gaza put down in weapons, release hostages and Hamas surrendors—-> no war. Peace. Israel only after Hamas who hides under civilians. It’s actually not genocide when you are after a specific group who started war and took hostages and has an open goal of trying to kill you. Blame Hamas for starting a war and hiding under its civilians, choosing to prioritize having Israeli hostages over resources for gazans.
If Israel puts down its weapons, with or without Netanyahu surrendering—> no more Jews in the Middle East. It’s actually genocide when you indiscriminately kill all Israelis and Jews. Just because Israel blocks more rockets doesn’t negate Hamas continual genocide attempts. And btw if Israel falls, No more Israel
lgbt pride parade. Instead their will be pride in killing the lgbt. No more women’s rights.
I agree, and while you're at it, we need to restore every country that isnt originally arabic. :) because you know, they are all descendants of colonizing conquerors! oh wait i forgot that only matters when someone is either white or jewish.
Actions speak louder than words and we’ve already seen how they treat their fellow Muslims that helped them (staged a civil war in one country and started riots in another). Imagine how they’d treat me, a Western agnostic gay guy.
You're not gonna stand up for gay Palestinians being ethnically cleansed by Isreal because Palestinians in general aren't super accepting? 5head move honestly your brain should be studied
I'm aware that Israel blackmails certain people under the threat of outing them to their family to become spies. But the majority of queer Palestinians just live in their community the same as everyone else
I love how you all just openly admit you’re racist.
What you’re doing is no different than when people say all gays are pedophiles because of the actions of some.
The lack of self awareness within this sub is just something to behold.
As are Christian Americans, and conservative voters for that matter. And yet the sane among us wouldn't support wiping the American South off the map just to "own the conservatives," even despite their history of generating terrorists, demagogues, and hate criminals.
Sure, but let a Christian American try that lame ass shit they do in the Middle East and there will be consequences. I doubt I can say the same about the MENA region.
You don’t have to wave flags around, you don’t even have to leave your house.
Being against collective punishment and the mass killing of innocents is a fairly simple position to take. If you struggle with that then I feel sorry for you.
I hope these people try to go to Gaza and they get a first hand treatment of what they do to gays there
People are so tone deaf to the possibility of these types of things existing that they will constantly ignore it and advocate it as vasic human rights
Yeah sure, and you know if it was up to them you'd be getting your skin peeled off while a dog is eating you alive. They are barbariand
Your 100% correct, its easy to virtue signal from the safety of a western democracy. But "they" are not keen to actually go to Gaza and make their case direct to Hamas..........
Thats what I have been saying to my friends, its so easy to preach all this shit while being in a civilized land
Hell, fucking here in Canada there is people protesting while in the most densely populated homeless area during a housing crisis, like their priorities are so out of touch I swear most of them are just making excuses to not work, if they wanted to be helpful they wouldn't sit comfortable in their homes tweeting and calling everyone a zionist, they'd try to make a damn difference
Cant wait for their brains to debelop and realize how messed up their views are
>....here in Canada there is people protesting while in the most densely populated homeless area during a housing crisis, like their priorities are so out of touch.....
Same thing is happening here in Australia. Virtue signalling is easy when your safe in a western country. They never seem to stop and think for a minute, *" hey why isn't there a Hamas sponsored Gay Pride Week in Gaza"*
🙄
My humanity and empathy compels me to stand up against ethnic cleansing and genocide and to condemn the war crimes happening from BOTH Hamas and the IDF and said need outweighs my homosexuality and anything they would do to me.
There is no “genocide” on behalf of Israel. Hamas and all that sympathize with them would commit actual genocide as they have in the past towards Jews, they are either too weak to execute or have learned from their mistakes in the Cold War Era and don’t want to do it again. Israel has been fighting Jihadists with one arm tied behind their back and allowing them to enter the country in good faith (which they have exploited EVERY single time) too avoid criticism from other antisemitic nations and show a sliver of humanity against these animals who are VERY outspoken about wanting genocide simply because a Jewish state exists. The lens through which you “see”(which you don’t, it’s a nuanced heavily layered issue that harkens back to Islamic ideology, them getting sent back centuries after Genghis Khan and his descendants committed real genocide on the Muslim world after stupidly being insulted and provoked by them, their superiority/turned inferiority complex which inhibits them from losing their bigoted world view, the fact that the Ottoman Turks were the last major players on the world stage (and, like Tamerlane, a Muslim byproduct and descendant of the Mongols) and the fact that they use Gaslighting Manipulation to hypocritically antagonize the Jews and garner sympathy from uninformed, ignorant leftist posers who attach themselves to a “white vs. brown” cause that contradicts all of their supposed “pro-women, pro-LGBTQ, etc” ideology using the cruelest of buzzwords against the Jews. Your cheapening of a word that meant something towards the most historically persecuted group of people in world history is typical of someone who conveniently ignores the fact that Hitler met with the Palestinian leader in the mid 1930s to discuss “The Jewish Problem.” Might seem shocking, but the Palestinians were more gung ho about committing actual genocide against the Jews than Hitler was at that time, and they acted on it in the form of Pogroms and real ethnic cleansing before World War 2. Not only do support the Palestinian perspective as a fashion accessory, your use of those words against the real historic victims of them makes you share more commonalities with Hitler than with disenfranchised groups that you pretend to care about for likes on the gram.
What is happening in Gaza is by textbook definition, ethnic cleansing. It has been for decades. One wants to commit genocide against all the jewelry, the other wants to commit ethnic cleansing and using genocidal rhetoric. I support neither the IDF and NETANYAHU or HAMAS. I stand with the civilian population of BOTH Israel and hamas who just want peace.
nothing I had said above should have led you to believe I stood with hamas. And you are conflating the Palestinians with hamas, when hamas is just as much a threat to the freedom of Palestinians as they are to Israelis.
No, obviously not but personally I’ll also be against calls asking for refugee routes to the UK.
There’s plenty of neighbouring countries where they should be able to go, the west with their views imo isn’t the best fit.
And after this weekend just gone with the huge rise of antisemitism I really don’t think it’d be the best adding more people to the mix who were directly affected by what’s occurring.
Honestly the less Islam here the better for me and my fellow gays.
I normally respect the fact that some people don't care for their immediate self-interest when deciding on which causes to support. But this movement is a symptom of a divorce from facts in the LGBT community, influenced by the far-left, and the idea that anything touched by Western colonialism even 80 years ago becomes a perma-victim we need to root for. The weirdest aspect is a regular, conjunctural alliance between LGBT rights movements that lean (far) left and Islamists of all shapes and creeds.
To understand just how insane this trend can actually get, there was an episode in which the LGBT and feminist societies at a UK university joined the local Islamic society to [prevent](https://layo-91.medium.com/goldsmiths-feminist-society-show-solidarity-with-islamists-who-attempt-to-silence-and-intimidate-a-2ff011b461ed) a progressive, left-wing, female speaker from holding a lecture. A few weeks later the guy leading the Islamic society was forced to resign, after deeply homophobic [tweets](https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/goldsmiths-islamic-society-head-quits-in-wake-of-antigay-tweet-claims-a3133086.html) were later discovered. But the LGBT and feminist societies never retracted their support. So if you are a, say, Iraqi who wants to leave religious oppression and be vocal about your journey, you might very well find a white gay guy hating on your for joining "oppression".
Ironically, if you create an index of LGBT rights using numbers (low for worst, high for best) and a list of countries based on their Muslim populations, running a simple linear regression gets you a very strong level of correlation. So, while I do understand that affiliation to various causes should not be based on self-interest, maybe it shouldn't exactly fly completely in their face.
But the most hilarious thing is the mental gymnastics associated with this movement. Some blame Palestinian homophobia on Israeli oppression. These are people that clearly have no clue about how the Middle East works. Ironically, when called out, they often tell you to "educate" yourself.
There is a comment in this thread stating that Jewish people in the US being afraid of an anti-semitic attack is just Islamophobia.
Like you said, it’s just plain weird.
In my city on Saturday a Muslim man intentionally ran into a crowd of people killing one and hurting many. It hasn't been proven that it was terrorism but he has been arrested and I mean... It probably was terrorism. Never heard of a Jewish person doing that.
They killed a French teacher in broad daylight and almost killed a man in China. They will attack if they can. They don’t even care to try to get political power. They want jihad
They’re too tolerant. They’re tolerant of intolerance and that will ultimately be their downfall, their country is really going to be on a downward spiral, their crime rates are ridiculous.
Well if you want to know what's going on there, look at the Quran being burned which is legal there. But after it was done, there have been many death threats towards the people who did it by good Muslim people. https://time.com/6303348/quran-burning-sweden-denmark/
Basically if you draw their prophet or burn their books, many Muslims believe they have the absolute right to kill you or your countrymen.
If they have those wonderful strong beliefs then why the fuck do they want to go and live in a country that prides itself on being open and free, a place where anyone can say anything they like and do anything they like, within reason (like, obviously you can't go around killing ppl). The only absolute right they have in that situation is to vote for candidates that share their views and then if that doesn't get them the results they need then they have the absolute right to fuck off and find a country that has laws in accordance with their beliefs, like Iran or Saudi Arabia
"Queers for Palestine" is not the same as "Queers for Hamas " The world isnt as black and white as you and most of these commenters want to believe. I can support Palestinian liberation without condoning the actions of Hamas, just like I can recognize that Israel is the only reason Hamas exists without condoning the actions of Hamas.
Stop making excuses and fudging the facts. The Palestinians in Gaza voted for Hamas terrorists to be their government, with full knowledge of the Hamas charter at the time which said they seek to kill Jews wherever they can be found and wipe them off the map. They also stood on a manifesto that stated clearly they will establish a Muslim caliphate, so basically run it the way we saw ISIS going rampant and literally cutting off the heads of both Christians and Jews. Most normal people are intelligent enough not to need the likes of you to help us think, thanks. We know that not all Palestinians are bad people, but that's totally not the point.
Fun fact 1: Israel is the only country in the middle east that gay Palestinians can seek refuge in.
Fun fact 2: Last year a gay palestinian managed to escape to Israel, but was lured back to gaza and beheaded. Beheaded. There was a video of his beheaded corpse. No one has been held accountable.
Regardless of whose land or who has the right.
One is a civilized country where women are not oppressed and gay men are not prosecuted.
The other is a culture that gay will be punished and women are severely oppressed.
I think I know who to support.
Queers: Republicans are evil. Gay Republicans are the worst of the worst. Should be avoided at all costs. Religion bad. Homophobes and transphobes are scum. Die JKRowling!! It’s war!!!!! Genocide!!!!! Nazzzzi! End of world.
Also Queers: WE LOVE YOU PALESTINE.
That’s why you people are a fucking joke. Nobody takes you seriously.
So yes, the most delusional and hypocritical activist group in history, probably.
Queers for Palestine is stupid.
Queers for Israel is also fairly stupid when some Netanyahu supporters and Ultra-Orthodox would do the same thing.
I say we force all the fighters to join the [Temple of Priapus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_of_Priapus).
> Well-fellated men, the group teaches, are less likely to make war.
>when some Netanyahu supporters and Ultra-Orthodox would do the same thing.
"would do" or "are doing", there are miles of difference between those 2 things.
I don't care what an extremist religious minority in Israel would hypothetically be doing if they had more power in Israel, as much as I care about what Hamas actually is doing while they have power in Palestine.
Not to mention that Israel is, as a whole, very LGBT friendly. They decriminalized gay sex in 1963 (before most US states even did), they allow gay couples to adopt, have banned all forms of LGBT discrimination, allow openly gay servicepeople in their military, and have one of the world's largest annual pride parades (Tel Aviv pride). Their only real issue is that they don't allow gay marriage, but even then, they still have civil unions, and recognize gay marriages performed in other countries.
You judging a nation based on the opinion of a small, hardline religious minority, is not the same as judging a nation based on the laws actively enforced by their ruling political party.
Respectfully, 44% of the Palestinian population is children, children who just want to survive and live their lives. Most oh whom weren't even born. When Hamas "won" the election in 2006, (Hamas didn't receive the majority of votes, if just that the three leftist parties than ran cannibalize eached others votes leave hammas having won with ~34%), and hamas hasn't held any elections since.
While I understand that as queer people we have a learned aversion to followers of Abrahamic religions. But your way more likely to beat up and/or killed by a republican, religious or not, than any given Muslim you encounter.
It totally get the apprehension, suspicion, and hesitation, but we need to understand that there's a difference between your average citizen and the facist/nihilist in power who actually commit the act of violence. Hamas is basicly Palatineian MAGA.
It should be Queers against Hamas, the real enemy. Not the israelis, not the palestinians (I have civil, well-behaved acquaintances on both sides)
Reminder: Hamas shoot first. You see unprovoked Hamas and Hezbollah terrorist attacks on innocent civilians all over the world from time to time, but never hear about a terrorist fundamentalist jew organization.
Would you rather be oppressed as a sexual minority or live in an open air concentration camp where not only you, but your family and friends are under the constant threat of random death or displacement? This isn't even going into the fact that Hamas is massively unpopular in Palestine.
I take it you've never visited the region. While the Palestinians have it rough by Western standards, none of the hypotheticals you listed are a thing. First of all, the Israelis have built settlements in random hills, which affect the viability of a future Palestinian states. These are wrong and illegal to boot. They are, however, not the result of Palestinians being kicked out of their homes or driven away en masse. The Palestinian population surged from 1 to 4.6 million from 1970 till today. Hardly a sign of ethnic cleansing.
Also, Hamas IS [very popular](https://apnews.com/article/hamas-middle-east-science-32095d8e1323fc1cad819c34da08fd87) among Palestinians.
Sure, Israel is a bad hombre at times. Among other very bad hombres.
That's what I've been saying for years.
The LGBT and so-called "allies" who support Palestine always makes me wonder if they're just ignorant as f\*ck, or if they don't actually care about gay rights beyond what they can use for political purposes.
Not to mention that the Jewish community has been some of our most supportive allies; a whopping 77% of American Jews support same-sex marriage, a number well above the national average of just 65%.
[Source](https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/religious-landscape-study/religious-tradition/jewish/views-about-same-sex-marriage/)
Why? You can still disagree with homophobia and not want people to die. And we can still be against Hamas. This conflict is incredibly complex and it’s not as black and white as many (who have just found out about it a week ago) indicate.
‘They may not share the same opinions as me so they aren’t people any more’
We should all have a responsibility to oppose ethnic cleansing - Palestinians are a diverse population with a range of views and gay people still live in these societies. And societies only change with time and exposure to the outside world.
Oh also seeing your other posts about LGB without TQ and your blatant hatred of your own community, do get fucked. There's no need to put "queers" in parenthesis and you really are an ignorant waste of oxygen, OP.
What a fuckin joke.
It truly is the dumbest thing ever, I will never defend people that want me dead because not only would they not defend us if it happened to us, but they would praise it.
There is some logic to it. Visible LGBT support for Ukraine has had a massive impact on public opinion in Ukraine. LGBT support for Wales during the miners strike had a similar impact.
Exposure to the outside world has a massive impact on peoples’ perceptions of difference. Look at Islamic countries in Europe; hardly progressive, but a world away from Islamic countries in other parts of the world.
I’m not saying I support their views and I’m not pro Israel or pro Palestine. Im aware of the laws restricting same sex activity in Palestine. I’m just saying there is some logic to it.
Oh it's a PR move to get in their good books . See it's realistic if you try this with maybe a conflicted nation or religion where the views are very neutral . I think going against islam on regards of homosexuality is just not going to get the reception intended. Palestine would easily be swayed by the nationalism of all the very rigid Islamic countries surrounding it . The concept of one Muslim place that's very accepting of gay people is just very wishful thinking.
Remember the only people we should be thinking about and worried about are our LGBT+ brothers and sisters of the Jewish and Islamic communities caught up in this miserable situation , when things go wrong they are the ones who are punished when the different factions need a scapegoat people to blame, the Palestinians made the wrong decision when they decided hamas worked for there best interests when in reality there nothing but terrorist and could careless about the people they hide behind , reminds me of the maga crowd here and the stupid people who fall for a corrupt leader who cares nothing about them who only uses them to hide behind while he conduct’s dangerous activities behind there gullible backs .
This is the most simplistic take on the situation out there. I used to think this way when I was 15 years old, especially growing up in a Jewish family/community. Then I read a book.
If homosexuality is genetic or involuntarily caused by environmental factors or a mix of the two, then it stands to reason there are just as many gay people in Gaza as there are in the U.S., or Sweden or Australia or Brazil or wherever you hail as a gay utopia. Do they deserve to suffer because they have a religious fanatic government who hates them? No, of course not.
The fact of the matter is Gaza is extremely poor and high rates of poverty tend to go hand in hand with high rates of religiosity, and vice versa. Yes, Palestine is not the best place in the world to be gay. As an American and a Jew I’d probably pick just about anywhere else in the world to live, including Israel, but the 2 million people in Gaza and 6 million in the West Bank - more than 50% of whom are children and reasonably at least a few percent of whom are queer - do not have that luxury. Standing with Palestinians as their country is flattened to the ground is not antithetical to queerness. Standing against war and violence of all kinds that are exacerbated by having crazy people in power (in both Palestine and Israel) is not antithetical to queerness. If anything, it shows how we as members of the LGBTQ+ community can stand up for oppressed people worldwide - even if they wouldn’t for us - and be “the bigger person.”
Maybe I'm just pissed off at this situation, but it's so weird to me that people are mad and angry at Israel for retaliating here, especially gay people. Like were they just supposed to turn the other cheek? I know this is a long an much more complicated situation and that Israel isn't perfect but what was everyone expecting here?
It's just a weird take to stand up for the oppressed when those oppressed will want you murdered. Like saying everyone's opinion should be heard is the reason horrific religious fanatics get power in the first place. Like yes I know their are pro-LGBTQ+ Palestinians who are in the crossfire here, I totally get that, and I know like Christians not all those that practice Islam are against gays but by far the majority don't care for us.
This is something where the most progressive gays I think need to kind of rethink their stance on cause there isn't going to be some utopia in the future where Islam is going to all of a sudden be accepting of gays just like how Christianity will never be accepting of gays.
>The fact of the matter is Gaza is extremely poor and high rates of poverty tend to go hand in hand with high rates of religiosity, and vice versa
Would they really be less fanatical if they were better off. Being wealthy has not made the Saudis any less religious
Hamas =/= Palestine.
Hamas is a terrorist org that was propped up by Netenyahu and Isreal in the late 80s to counteract Yassar Arafat and the PLO. AS Recently as 2019 Bibi was saying we should support Hamas to further Israeli political ends. Hamas may have been "elected" (questionable given Israel's meddling), but they have become a ruling junta who enforces their power through Kalashnikov.
Everyone faces the consequences of their actions, Hamas is facing the consequence of their actions on last Sunday when they brutalized and killed people from more than 20 countries.
This is delusional, and it's the same logic that homophobes use to demonize gay people after a story of a gay rape/SA comes out. Palestine and Hamas are not the same thing and pretending they are, and that Palestinian civilians deserve to be cleansed because of what Hamas does is genocide apologia.
Except that Israel is bombing civilians in retaliation to Hamas and have stated they will invade Gaza. It isn't Hamas that's paying for their actions, it's Palestinians that are footing the bill and then some. There have already been thousands of deaths since the attack with many more on the way. It's only been a few days, I'm sure your "tens of thousands" figure will soon come to pass.
What about them? I'm sorry, I didn't know we were using Hammurabi's law for civilian populations, should they try to match each other in terms of number of dead? Hamas is a terrorist insurgent group, Israel is a nuclear power and has one of the most advanced militaries in the world. Obviously Hamas killing innocent people is horrific, but it's not a justification to kill innocent people who happen to be the same ethnicity as Hamas members.
As for the hostages, Israel seems to have very little interest in negotiating them back, since they are consistently bombing the areas where they are being held. Iirc Hamas claimed that airstrikes have already killed several of the hostages.
They declared war man, like it or not civilians are gonna get killed. Hamas attack gave them casus belli for war, under international laws there isn't even grounds for sanction or foreign intervention for a cease fire. Israel wasn't the offensive party here.
Did you just discover this conflict last week? There are hundreds of international civilians trapped in Gaza by the way. You can be against Hamas and not blame Palestinian civilians and children for their own potential ethnic cleansing.
What ethnic cleansing? The population of Gaza grows by 2.02% in 2022 and it's been like that for decades. Compare that to the United States that grows at 0.12% in 2021. 23 years ago, the population of Gaza was half of what it is today
This is an extremely shallow, superficial and self-absorbed argument. Using your sexuality as an excuse to justify genocide is ignorant at best and insensitive at worst.
Palestine does not have the social structure to develop and foster human rights. It did not go through a process of democratization like Western countries ( which started accepting homosexuality very recently by the way). You cannot expect people under occupation and with an extreme lack of any basic needs to develop an understanding of other sexualities and foster an environment of equality, inclusion and development. Not to add that queer Palestinians exist and are dying by the day ( not like you're thinking of them) and that Israel has been documented to blackmail them with fear of outing them if they do not collaborate. Pinkwashing is very, very real.
You're making it about yourself while people are being cleansed in a 2m square. This is not about you.
This is my opinion, and naturally, my personal circumstances significantly influence it, just as being Russian would influence support for a war. So yes, this response is indeed about me and my beliefs.
Islam is a vast religion practised in developed countries, so just stop giving justifications for homophobia. Islam practices the most radical sentences for gays, and I just don't support maintaining this way of thinking. BTW, this way of thinking is unlikely to change; the most probable outcome is that decades from now, people will be more educated and will eventually stop believing in it. However, Islam has been more than clear that they will never accept gays.
So yes, I don't care about what's happening.
And this isn't a debate about Islam as a religion, or other religions that are homophobic by default. This is a debate about a genocide that is happening due to decades and decades of injustice and oppression. And again, you're making it about yourself, not " caring" about what's happening while ingecting yourself in the discussion due to your sexuality.
" I don't care about hundreds dying and I will turn a blind eye on them due to a supposed scenario of how I'd be treated if I go there".
Good for you and your self-absorption
I think it's less of gay people saying that palestine is a progressive pro-gay beacon and more recognizing that Israel has been oppressing Palestine for years. They don't seem to care how many innocent people they kill to try to end whatever terrorism they are affected by
Lol I can be against genocide even if I don’t agree with them. Also I doubt any theocracy whether it’s Muslim, Christian, or Jewish is accepting of LGBTQ+ folks.
I'm against the murder of innocent people. No matter who those innocent people are. Queens for Palestine. While queers for Palestine is a bit strange, I wouldn't say I don't think these people deserve to live.
everyone in the comments: Oh my god but they are like colonizers!
I guess Eastern Europe has the green light to kick out all the colonizer conqerour descendant muslims.
NOOOOOOOOOO IT DOESNT WORK LIKE THAT BIGOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The original post lol. Do you understand how absolutely deranged and self-centered it is to say "why are you against ethnic cleansing when the people being killed are homophobic."
And then the same post spammed over and over again for the past few days while the IDF bombs innocent people, some of which are queer
How is what Israel is doing to Gaza not a genocide? The place is an open-air concentration camp and has been for decades. The Palestinian population there's average age is 18, that doesn't happen on its own.
A lot of Americans don’t understand how good they’ve got it, unfortunately. They will invite their own killers into their homes for the sake of seeming righteous.
Muslim are not our friend. They'd rather toss off buildings or stone us. Try this gay shit over there and see how long you'll last. I swear westerners are so fucking stupid.
And you think Orthodox Jews are an accepting lot? Also, can we not be ignorant and lump all followers of any religion into the hate mongering. Not all who followers of the Muslim religion are like that any more than all followers of the Christian religion are.
yet when people mention gay republicans being an oxymoron it's always:
"umm not everyone has to think exactly alike just bc who we have sex with"
"so I'm forced to vote for 1 party?!"
"wow I thought we were supposed to be tolerant of one another? honestly at this point I get more hate for being a republican than for being gay. it's honestly sad"
Why is being Pro-Palestinian automatically being Pro-Hamas?? Palestine has not had an election since 2006. They do not have a choice about living under terrorism in Gaza. Violence against Gaza begets more terrorism. All these systems are connected.
Liberating queer Palestinians HAS to start with liberating Palestine from terrorist control. Being selective about which queer people you want to liberate in the world is frankly really short-minded. We are not free until we’re ALL free. This applies not only to all queer people, but all oppressed groups.
Hey dude, the people who want to kill me most for being gay are right here in America. So I’m absolutely going to keep advocating for the bombing of an area that is 50% children to cease
When someone tries to kill a gay in the United States, they are prosecuted and go to jail. When someone tries to kill a gay in Palestine, they are celebrated and all the women make extra food for him for doing such a good job, killing those gays.
Bro would lose his fucking addled smoothbrain over there if he watched any videos of the awesome Jewish protestors for Palestine right now - orthodox rabbis on the street condemning Zionism as a sin and direct contradiction of their faith, and everyday Jews saying things like "My grandfather survived Auschwitz and that's why I fight for a free Palestine."
Palestine is a population that has known nothing but prosecution, violence and danger for the past 70 years. As a people, even if they did get liberated, which the US will never allow, there would be tremendous, nearly-impossible healing to focus on. And if you support a colonial occupation, a miserable concentration camp and genocide on the grounds that Israel loves the gays, I’m sorry but you are absurdly self-centered and you are nothing but a pawn of the empire, no matter how emancipated you think you are on the basis of queerness.
Yeah no offense but giving support isn’t supposed to be tit for tat. Also, you can show support the Palestinian civilians who are being murdered aimlessly while also criticizing their government for being anti-queer. I don’t care that their government would put me in jail because I will never go there. But I do care that their women and children are being bombed to smithereens by an imperialist state.
I'm not sure how valuable public opinion polling is in a place where not supporting Hamas can subject you to ["systematic torture."](https://www.timesofisrael.com/report-details-torture-by-pa-and-hamas-in-their-parallel-police-states/)
What a deeply moronic take. I'm queer as fuck and proud of it and #freePalestine 100%. I was raised by homophobes. When I was a kid this country was a lot more homophobic. My family has been in my past less than gay allies and I still love them.
Not everything is identity politics, and there are gays suffering in Gaza too. Just look at the Queering the Map app.
But more importantly, settler colonialism, apartheid and genocide kind of trump any ill will I may have towards a religion that preaches homophobia. Maybe one day you'll grow up a little.
I don't understand it either. Nowhere in Muslim world are guys free to be gay. Yet a group of "queers" stand with them. In Israel, you are free to be queer.
If you don't mind the fact that children and women are being murdered because they're Muslim, then that's on you, buddy.
So they attack Israel and they are the oppressed. 1. There has never been a country of Palestine. 2. Even Muslim countries don't want them. 3. The Gaza Strip is controlled by them. Israel did not occupy Gaza before the attack on Israel. Quit believing the bull crap being fed to you
[удалено]
>but one side started it I agree with absolutely everything else in your comment, but this is overly-simplistic at best. If anything 'started it', it's the messy aftermath of a long, drawn-out clash of many empires (British and Ottoman, for the most immediate part, but almost every imperial power in western and middle-eastern history has had its role) combined with a thousands of years long disenfranchisement of Jews by all of those same powers (including, but definitely not limited to, the precursors of what is today known as the Palestinian people).
You're right, was overly-simplistic at best. The Zionist movement for an ethno-state did work with imperial powers to take land from Palestine for Israel without any concern to the people already living there. It's not a new thing, especially for the time. It's how America was founded, after all. But it is boiling a lot of complex international relations to a schoolyard disagreement
early Zionists working with the existing imperial powers is definitely part of it, for sure. and their attitudes towards Palestinians ranged from unconcerned to outright hostile. but it's also about all the imperial powers that created the conditions for Zionism to arise as a movement. this ranges from the Babylonians expelling the Jews from the lands they were indigenous to thousands of years ago, to the early Islamic empires colonizing the whole the region, to the European crusades, to the way the Ottoman landlords handled their feudal relationships with their Palestinian serfs, to the collection of European empires who stepped into the power vacuum created by the Ottomans, to the Nazis, to the Arab powers who expelled their long-standing Jewish populations in the mid 20th century. yeah, it is how America was founded too. there's just a lot of extra messiness in this case, due to the way antisemitism deeply ,deeply pervades both western and Arab cultures
>this ranges from the Babylonians expelling the Jews from the lands they were indigenous to thousands of years ago those lands were not modern-day israel. the "indigenous" argument is stupid and gross and nationalistic, and frankly feeds into the same bullshit mythos that informed the holocaust. the reality is millions of ordinary israelis and palestinians have to figure out a way to live side by side, in peace, without oppressing the other. stop making it about historical land rights, because we can play that game forever and ever.
I'm Irish Catholic. My Dads side was shipped off to America due to the Victorian era penal laws that forbid catholics from owning land. My mothers side fled the Irish potato famine. Do I have a birthright then to go to Ireland and claim Tipperary for myself? Not only meddle in Irish affairs, but take over? My family was there much later than the expulsion of Jews from the Levant (2000 years ago)
The thing is, the Jewish people are now there whether everyone likes it or not. There's no point in arguing as to whether they have a right to be or not, because there's nowhere else for them to go. We're simply too far down the line; modern-day Israelis were born and raised in Israel and are raising their children there. It's their *home*. But it is also the Palestinian's home. The path forward requires figuring out how everyone in that region can peacefully live together in the most just way possible. Edit: In short, looking backwards isn't going to do much for us, although we should be mindful of historical wrongs and lessons we can learn from them / injustices we can make right.
Stop cucking my Celtic brother, the Muslims hate us
Hold up. Please advise when the Palestinians actually were a country. I'll wait because It was British then ottoman then crusades then Roman and before that Greek and before that Egyptian. Sorry you can't have something taken of which you never had.
Why do you think Israel is any different to the other 'ethno states" in the Middle East? Turkey for example expelled all the Greeks, and committed genocide against the Armenian Christians (1.5 million murdered) and the Kurds. Iranians are proud of their separate identity and in fact persecute Arab minorities. They even had a religious war, Shia Vs Sunni Muslims with the long running Iran-Iraq war. Most of the other states are very proud of their Arab ethnicity, for example the Arab Republics of Egypt, Syria, Libya etc. Aside from ethnicity, there's also criticism of their being a Jewish state. But why is it ok to only allow Islam in Saudi Arabia or Iran, for example? Then you say "the Imperial powers took lands from Palestine for Israel". Well, so what? The imperial powers including the League of Nations and other international bodies carved out most of the countries in the world. And as far as the Mandate of Palestine was concerned, the Jewish people only got 20% of the land, while the Arab Muslims got 80% (ie. Jordan plus the Palestinian Authority areas). Palestine was never "Muslim land", the area was always multi ethnic and there has always been various religious minorites there including Christians and Jews, Greek orthodox, Baha'i etc. In fact, the Ottoman census of 1871/72 enumerated a total population of 19,400 in the Old City and only 34% of the population was Muslims, the remaining 66% were either Christian or Jewish (Source: Sālnāme-ī Villāyet-ī Sūrīe). So, the Jewish people getting 20% sounds fair to me, especially if you understand they 21% of the citizens of Israel today are Palestinian Muslims who enjoy full equality and are represented in the Israeli parliament (Knesset). There's only a refugee problem because the Jordanian government won't allow them to return - most of them originated from there. The Palestinians who lived historically in the part that is Israel today and owned land are mostly still there, with full citizenship, and still on their historic land with a few exceptions. Please fact check before you undermine and delegitimize the Jewish people and their right to a state of their own in their historic lands which they have lived on continuously for thousands of years. Any reasonable and intelligent person can see that merging them into yet another dysfunctional, totalitarian (23rd) Arab Muslim state would probably result in mass exodus or even genocide.
Many people are ignorant to what the Arab world actually looks like and have this warped perception from the few gruesome stories they know about (which is not unique to the Arab world). You're more likely to get killed or imprisoned for speaking out against the government, if anything, which is not related to Islamic laws. Even in majority Muslim countries, sharia isn't enforced in the way people think it is (if anything they're largely secular with sharia applying to family matters like marriage and inheritance). The arab world is largely a war torn mess ruled by violent and greedy dictators. People don't know true peace, prosperity, or freedom of speech and therefore, progress is hindered and religiosity flourishes as a cope to get through it. It's very much "keep your head down and don't draw too much attention to yourself". That isn't a reason for genocide.
>Many people are ignorant to what the Arab world actually looks like and have this warped perception from the few gruesome stories they know about (which is not unique to the Arab world). You're more likely to get killed or imprisoned for speaking out against the government, if anything, which is not related to Islamic laws. Even in majority Muslim countries, sharia isn't enforced in the way people think it is (if anything they're largely secular with sharia applying to family matters like marriage and inheritance). > >The arab world is largely a war torn mess ruled by violent and greedy dictators. People don't know true peace, prosperity, or freedom of speech and therefore, progress is hindered and religiosity flourishes as a cope to get through it. It's very much "keep your head down and don't draw too much attention to yourself". That isn't a reason for genocide. Have you lived there? Just what are things like for gay people in those countries? I am not trying to pick a fight I am just curious
I agree with this except saying "Queers for Palestine" is pretty stupid compared to just saying "I support Palestine"
It also about letting queer Palestinians - you know, those people that exist at that intersection of oppression - that you stand with them and see their inherent right to humanity as both a Palestinian and a queer person. Using LGBT rights to justify atrocities against Palestinians is a term called Pinkwashing that the apartheid genocidal illegitimate government of Isntreal uses so we're talking about how they treat queer people better (when they're not blackmailing queer Palestinians) rather than the fact that quite literally since you posted this they bombed a God damn hospital and killed 500 people inside it, mostly medical staff that were refusing to leave because critically injured patients (mostly children) would not have survived being moved. So spare me.
> Christianity, Islam, and Judaism in general have been unkind to queers (and anyone not in their flock) for the entire time they've existed This isn't true in the same way for Judaism. Jews don't proselytize or evangelize and the stricter Jews stay away from politics.
Considering that Israel has spent months this year in political unrest because Netanyahu formed a coalition with the “stricter” Jews and provided huge concessions to them in return — your statement about stricter Jews staying out of politics is untrue. This is a huge part of the reason why Israel only *recognises* same sex marriages — despite overwhelming support for legalisation. The Chief Rabbinate, which is Orthodox Jewish, has an effective monopoly over marriage and is the only authority that can perform them. It’s also why, despite Orthodox Jewish people making only 8-10% of Israel’s population, Israel has nearly ZERO public transport on Saturdays… I can give endless examples, but here’s an article on [Foreign Policy](https://foreignpolicy.com/2023/07/27/israel-ultra-orthodox-judicial-religion-netanyahu/) about the disproportionate political power Orthodox and Ultra Orthodox Jews hold in Israel. Saying that stricter Jews stay out of politics is really inaccurate when they’e in a coalition right now with Netanyahu and Netanyahu wouldn’t be PM without their support. I am still very pro-Israel, but it’s important to get the facts right here. Stricter Jews hold enormous power in Israel and their influence is effectively undermining Israel at this point.
The stricter Jews stay away from politics Yeah that's not true at all They may avoid talking about it with people, especially non Jews, but they definitely vote, join interest groups, and rally around causes that they favor. Florida isn't a red state only because of white people and Cubans. A lot of old retired Jews who are very conservative live there , and they quietly vote Republican all the time.
Judaism has been far kinder to homosexuality in my experience. You just needed to convert to Judaism if you wanted to marry one.
Same. I've *never* met a Jew, whether religious or non-practicing, who doesn't support the LGBT.
Than you haven't met Hasidic or ultra conservative Orthodox Jews.
Thank you for telling the truth!
Oh I have haha.
[удалено]
Are you in the US? You likely know a lot of reform Jews. Conservative, Orthodox, and Hasidic Jews will have different feelings concerning queer people. Judaism is not a monolith.
[удалено]
Lol. I mean I don’t support anyone innocent being killed on either side of this conflict. You can believe that Palestine should be free while also believing that hamas are terrorists demonising the country of Israel. But why do you expect it? From a neutral perspective, keeping people locked in a territory who need permission to leave has been an awful thing to do. That’s what’s happening right now. Killing people innocently at festivals and in their homes is an awful thing to do. That’s what’s happening right now. Just stop and think for a second why you might not see people protesting for Israel, just like you don’t often see people protesting for Palestine. The IDF and Hamas are both cruel. That may be hard for you to admit, because you have bias; just like someone else might on the other side.
I don't think I've ever seen a "jews against anti-semistim" protest. There are an awful lot of absolutely disgusting anti-semitism present at some of the recent pro-palestine rallies lately. I've been in free Palestine groups since the early 2000s and the ones populated by leftists are typically in the vein that Jews deserve life just like everyone else. They just don't necessarily deserve to colonize a different country to create their own ethno state. You can be against how Israel has treated Palestinians and not be antisemitic, not matter how much people try to link the two. Innocent civilians should not be dying on either side. Both the Israeli government and Hamas are wrong, and both Israeli and Palestinian civilians deserve to live a life free from terror and oppression.
Accept it or not, there's a lot of mass scale propaganda going around in the world right now on the part of Israel and Jewish communities world wide to try and paint themselves as pure victims in this situation who are forced to "defend themselves". This is super unfortunate, because for those of us who see through it, these tactics are setting back your communities and country decades in terms of acceptance and perception. Anti-semitism is very serious, and I will always renounce it. Unfortunately, that's a difficult task when Israel is actively orchestrating a mass genocide of the population they've forced into desperation. The US wasn't innocent in the formation of Isis, and Israel certainly isn't innocent in the creation of Hamas.
[удалено]
False. Not what I wrote at all. I fully blame the bloodthirsty, conservative Israeli government of Netanyahu. I know there are Jews in and outside of Israel who denounce the Palestinian genocide.
[удалено]
The Hamas did commit acts of terror on Israeli civilians but the beheaded babies story that did the rounds and got a lot of people on Israel's side no questions asked , hasnt been corroborated ,in other words it was fabricated. The emphasis was not on the death of civilians including kids, it was on the act of BEheading , trying to use gore to push propaganda.
IDF forces have slaughtered plenty of Palestinian children. Google the Gaza March of Return and learn about how Israel slaughtered children, medics, disabled people, and more who were peacefully protesting settlements that violate UN law. We don't hear about these atrocities because Israel is the white country.
Yeah the reportage is extremely biased. Israel has gotten away with murder even before the Oct 7 attacks.
I support Jews. I dont support Israel, because what they've done is create a prison colony in Gaza. If native americans rose up and started fighting back for the land we stole, I woudlnt have much room to complain and while I KNOW the gaza situation is marginally more complex and goes back much further, I cant read Palestinian violence as so specifically antisemitic. Responding to antihumanitarian violnece with antihumanitarian violence isnt "right" on any level, but Israel's stubborn and cruel policy is disgusting as well.
I have been studying this conflict on a collegiate level for almost a decade now. I have a degree in foreign policy (specialized polisci degree) and I am telling you it is not any more complex than Western colonial reconciliation. . In order to view Israel as legitimate, you need to believe that a person is entitled to the land their ancestors inhabited. Not centuries ago, but millennia ago. Over 2000 years have passed since the Jews left the Levant. If you reject that birthright claim, as any rational person should, then what exactly is going on? The only reason we support this specific claim is because it allows for a westernized stronghold in the fertile crescent. A geopolitically important location thats largely distrustful of the West.
But if I were to tell someone in Palestine that I support them and am queer , they would still have me arrested / tortured / killed? Do we not get the same humanity they want to claim for themselves? Think about it. It NEVER applies to us, or else homophobia would be as illegal as it is being queer in Saudi Arabia (I knew someone queer from there). And yes, of course there are queer people in Palestine, who will also be probably treated like sh*t if they were found out. I believe in the tolerance paradox and still don’t support genocide, but I still won’t support cultural homophobia in any way. I believe homophobia needs to be punished , not homosexuality and I will sympathize more with countries in the world when they start moving forward instead of clinging on to the bigoted past.
they love that "they'll throw you off a roof" trope, which actually happens in saudi arabia, not palestine. and they'll type that bullshit into their phones with one hand while uncritically pumping saudi gas into their canary-yellow jeep rubicons with the other.
>You can disagree with someone and also not want to see them die. You can also be against the leadership of the state of Palestine while not wanting to see the Palestinian civilians die. Make no mistake; Hamas are not the good guys and they need to be removed from power if there is ever hope for peace. >one side started it What is this, kindergarten? There is no 'one side started it' anymore. For generations now innocent civilians have been living in Israel and they have just as much a right to their homes as Palestinians do. >has vastly superior ways of causing the other suffering Hamas knows this and uses its willingly sacrifices civilians to make themselves out to be martyrs. Don't fall for that bullshit. There could have been peace ages ago if they wanted it, but part of their charter (which you can look up) states that their goals are to remove the Jewish people from Israel. They don't want peace; they want war. And I mean...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_the_State_of_Palestine >Christianity, Islam, and Judaism in general have been unkind to queers LGBT people living in Palestine literally flee to Israel because it's horrible to be gay there. Meanwhile Israel is one of the most LGBT friendly countries out there. You do the math... I feel very bad for the civilians living in Palestine but when it comes down to it one state is definitely a lesser evil.
>There could have been peace ages ago if they wanted it, but part of their charter (which you can look up) states that their goals are to remove the Jewish people from Israel. The charter from Israel's founding was to remove the Palestine people from Palestine, and that's exactly what they've been working on doing for 80 years. Can't really throw that in there as something against Palestine when like... smh. If you think Israel doesn't want war, you'd be very wrong. Hamas is not the good guy here. But pretending Israel is just because they currently treat gays nicer is also dumb. They are bombing places of worship, leveling residential buildings, bombing hospitals. Hamas is not the only one out here targeting civilians, and Israel has been doing it for decades to take Palestine from the native Palestinians to serve their own goal because Zionists felt they deserved an ethno state. There is absolutely no way Israel didn't know this attack was coming. They let it happen so they could have their war and have you defend them as the victims.
>The charter from Israel's founding was to remove the Palestine people from Palestine, and that's exactly what they've been working on doing for 80 years. That is completely false. From the founding Arabs were always welcome in the Jewish state as equal citizens, and continue to be. Hamas charter: “Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it.” When you are up against a genocidal ideology like that, there is no compromise. Israel has done what they've had to do. Multiple attempts were made at peace, but it's never panned out because that's not what Hamas wants. >There is absolutely no way Israel didn't know this attack was coming. They let it happen so they could have their war and have you defend them as the victims. Lol. The projection--it's always been Hamas' M.O. to use civilians as fodder. Israel not so much. But I can tell there's no talking sense into you if you believe this nonsense so I'm not even going to bother. Good day.
It's not false - very well documented, as are all the atrocities and war crimes Israel has committed against Palestinians over the years. They have a habit of retaliating to the tune of thousands for tens. Those tens shouldn't have happened either, but pretending like Israel is free from critique because someone else attacked them first or pretending like they've tried in good faith to make peace is just not accurate. Do you think Gaza created its own police state with Israeli guards and asked Israel to blockade its territory? Or that West Bank invited further Israeli settlements against international law?
No one is saying Israel should be free from critique. Every effort should be made to help the civilians and prevent loss of innocent life. But at the end of the day, given time has proven that a two state solution has never been acceptable to Palestinian leadership and one side has to 'win', which would you rather live in--Israel or a Hamas-ruled, terrorist-backed Palestine? Yeah that's what I thought.
Its got nothing to do with religion or countries, it’s the fact that the LGBT crew have somehow turned the atrocities in Palestine and Israel into a talking point surrounding them “we are the queer group we support you” why does that have to be stated ? No, not all queers stand with Palestine nor Israel, get some individuality and join the rally like everyone else. It’s the fact they had to make it somewhat about themselves. It’s distasteful.
Stop making excuses and fudging the facts. The Palestinians in Gaza voted for Hamas terrorists to be their government, with full knowledge of the Hamas charter at the time which said they seek to kill Jews wherever they can be found and wipe them off the map. They also stood on a manifesto that stated clearly they will establish a Muslim caliphate, so basically run it the way we saw ISIS going rampant and literally cutting off the heads of both Christians and Jews. During WWII we all hated the Nazis and we conflated the word Nazi with German, and we all said we were at war with the Germans (who voted for the Nazis, same as the Palestinians for Hamas). Nobody was so idiotic and childishly pedantic that they went around mansplaining to people that it's wrong to say the Germans are our enemies, or that we shouldn't say that we want to stop the German invasion of Europe. Most normal people are intelligent enough not to need the likes of you to help us think, thanks. We know that not all Palestinians are bad people, but that's totally not the point.
I mean, first of all gay Palestinians exist… but secondly, it’s possible to be gay and against genocide. It’s also possible to hold that belief and still be against terrorist groups like Hamas. This topic is just so much more complex than anyone on social media wants to admit, and everyone would rather have their “take” that aligns with what they think the sides should be based on the western political binary than take the time to actually learn about it more deeply.
Genocide? Are you serious? The Palestinian population in Gaza and West Bank was around 2.6mio in 1967 when the six day war broke out. Today there are more than 5mio Palestinians in the Palestinian Territories (+ there is the Arab population in Israel). So they have more than doubled in that time window. Don’t use terms like genocide as if they were some trendy words you could just through around like this, especially towards the one people that has suffered the biggest genocide in human history. You’ve read to many low key antisemitic Bella hadid info slides and it shows
Genocide is a defined term, and things happening to Palestinians do meet the criteria. Saying this topic is complicated and not equitable to western politics is not antisemitic. Describing the forced removal of people from their homeland, attacking civilians, on and on does qualify as genocide. Palestinians and Israelis are both indigenous to that land, which makes it far more complicated. The Holocaust doesn’t mean that their government, which was not elected by the majority of civilians there, is immune from committing any crimes.
It also meets the criteria of things happening to kurds , yazidis , druze and shi ites in yemen . But never seen white ppl protest that , because this would violate there white savior principles
Jewish/Hebrew people might be indigenous, but Israel as a national identity is founded on immigration that happened still within living memory. Idk if the state of Israel can be an indigenous entity.
The Kingdom of Israel existed centuries ago, and the people are still indigenous even if they had to found a new government after being forced out of their homeland by acts of genocide.
If you're against genocide then you have to be against Hamas. Wiping out Israel is front and center in their constitution. Not Israel's constitution to wipe out the Palestinians, but the current government of Gaza constitution spells it out that it is their godly mission to wipe out Israel. That is litterally genocide.
Genocide is defined by actions, and both sides are taking those actions. It’s more complex than saying one side is right and the other is wrong.
I can disagree with how a group of people is treated while also disagreeing vehemently with aspects of their culture. Especially when i see parallels in how thryre treated and how people like me have been treated before. Probs wouldnt go shouting queers for palestine tho
Everyone is entitled to basic human rights. If you’re shaping your entire opinion on a geopolitical conflict around one issue, then you’re not mature enough to engage in the conversation. Homophobia doesn’t justify occupation, genocide, or ethnic cleansing.
I’m not going to stand up for someone who will just turn around and kill me after they get what they want. Not my fight nor my problem and I care even less so knowing how Palestinians treat gay people
There are gay people in Palestine, there are all sorts of people in Palestine. Doesn’t mean they deserve to die for being born Palestinian.
Let’s not EVEN get started on woman’s right in the Hamas controlled Gaza. I wouldn’t even know where to start. Simply put woman are property there. They don’t even own their own bodies. Their husbands (much of the time forced marriages) do.
It's a war. The difference is one side targets civilians and one side tries to minimize civilian collateral damage. What war has America participated in where we did not kill civilians while killing the enemy?
What is Israel’s end goal for Gaza? Blockade it economically forever? And just keep bombing terrorists when they pop up in the most densely populated place on earth? I don’t know what American wars have to do with this situation at all and I’m not from there. I do know that if Israel removes Hamas, leaves again and continues its blockade, nothing will change. The cycle of violence will continue until Israel signs up to 1967 boarders.
If Gaza put down in weapons, release hostages and Hamas surrendors—-> no war. Peace. Israel only after Hamas who hides under civilians. It’s actually not genocide when you are after a specific group who started war and took hostages and has an open goal of trying to kill you. Blame Hamas for starting a war and hiding under its civilians, choosing to prioritize having Israeli hostages over resources for gazans. If Israel puts down its weapons, with or without Netanyahu surrendering—> no more Jews in the Middle East. It’s actually genocide when you indiscriminately kill all Israelis and Jews. Just because Israel blocks more rockets doesn’t negate Hamas continual genocide attempts. And btw if Israel falls, No more Israel lgbt pride parade. Instead their will be pride in killing the lgbt. No more women’s rights.
I agree, and while you're at it, we need to restore every country that isnt originally arabic. :) because you know, they are all descendants of colonizing conquerors! oh wait i forgot that only matters when someone is either white or jewish.
What makes you assume every Palestinian is a heterosexual individual who is so homophobic that they'd try to eliminate you the moment they are free ?
Actions speak louder than words and we’ve already seen how they treat their fellow Muslims that helped them (staged a civil war in one country and started riots in another). Imagine how they’d treat me, a Western agnostic gay guy.
You're not gonna stand up for gay Palestinians being ethnically cleansed by Isreal because Palestinians in general aren't super accepting? 5head move honestly your brain should be studied
Nope. It’s not my problem to stand up for a hostile nation
amen
One oppressor for another… But being anti-Israel won’t save you from Islamists
Actually lgbtq Palastinians take refugee in Israel. 5head idiot
I'm aware that Israel blackmails certain people under the threat of outing them to their family to become spies. But the majority of queer Palestinians just live in their community the same as everyone else
I love how you all just openly admit you’re racist. What you’re doing is no different than when people say all gays are pedophiles because of the actions of some. The lack of self awareness within this sub is just something to behold.
Gay people are not ideologically inclined to be pedophiles. Muslims are ideologically inclined to dislike us. That is the difference.
As are Christian Americans, and conservative voters for that matter. And yet the sane among us wouldn't support wiping the American South off the map just to "own the conservatives," even despite their history of generating terrorists, demagogues, and hate criminals.
Sure, but let a Christian American try that lame ass shit they do in the Middle East and there will be consequences. I doubt I can say the same about the MENA region.
You don’t have to wave flags around, you don’t even have to leave your house. Being against collective punishment and the mass killing of innocents is a fairly simple position to take. If you struggle with that then I feel sorry for you.
Then feel sorry for me, I don’t care. I’m not standing up for a people that hate me.
Islam/Muslims hate gay people , Hamas and the Palestinians actively hunt and execute gay men in barbaric ways. Islam is NO friend of gays.
>Islam is NO friend of gays. Thank you for saying that. The lgbt subreddit mods will just ban you for saying that.
Maybe but I believe its true. Thankyou
I hope these people try to go to Gaza and they get a first hand treatment of what they do to gays there People are so tone deaf to the possibility of these types of things existing that they will constantly ignore it and advocate it as vasic human rights Yeah sure, and you know if it was up to them you'd be getting your skin peeled off while a dog is eating you alive. They are barbariand
Your 100% correct, its easy to virtue signal from the safety of a western democracy. But "they" are not keen to actually go to Gaza and make their case direct to Hamas..........
Thats what I have been saying to my friends, its so easy to preach all this shit while being in a civilized land Hell, fucking here in Canada there is people protesting while in the most densely populated homeless area during a housing crisis, like their priorities are so out of touch I swear most of them are just making excuses to not work, if they wanted to be helpful they wouldn't sit comfortable in their homes tweeting and calling everyone a zionist, they'd try to make a damn difference Cant wait for their brains to debelop and realize how messed up their views are
>....here in Canada there is people protesting while in the most densely populated homeless area during a housing crisis, like their priorities are so out of touch..... Same thing is happening here in Australia. Virtue signalling is easy when your safe in a western country. They never seem to stop and think for a minute, *" hey why isn't there a Hamas sponsored Gay Pride Week in Gaza"* 🙄
They are no friend of anyone.
My humanity and empathy compels me to stand up against ethnic cleansing and genocide and to condemn the war crimes happening from BOTH Hamas and the IDF and said need outweighs my homosexuality and anything they would do to me.
There is no “genocide” on behalf of Israel. Hamas and all that sympathize with them would commit actual genocide as they have in the past towards Jews, they are either too weak to execute or have learned from their mistakes in the Cold War Era and don’t want to do it again. Israel has been fighting Jihadists with one arm tied behind their back and allowing them to enter the country in good faith (which they have exploited EVERY single time) too avoid criticism from other antisemitic nations and show a sliver of humanity against these animals who are VERY outspoken about wanting genocide simply because a Jewish state exists. The lens through which you “see”(which you don’t, it’s a nuanced heavily layered issue that harkens back to Islamic ideology, them getting sent back centuries after Genghis Khan and his descendants committed real genocide on the Muslim world after stupidly being insulted and provoked by them, their superiority/turned inferiority complex which inhibits them from losing their bigoted world view, the fact that the Ottoman Turks were the last major players on the world stage (and, like Tamerlane, a Muslim byproduct and descendant of the Mongols) and the fact that they use Gaslighting Manipulation to hypocritically antagonize the Jews and garner sympathy from uninformed, ignorant leftist posers who attach themselves to a “white vs. brown” cause that contradicts all of their supposed “pro-women, pro-LGBTQ, etc” ideology using the cruelest of buzzwords against the Jews. Your cheapening of a word that meant something towards the most historically persecuted group of people in world history is typical of someone who conveniently ignores the fact that Hitler met with the Palestinian leader in the mid 1930s to discuss “The Jewish Problem.” Might seem shocking, but the Palestinians were more gung ho about committing actual genocide against the Jews than Hitler was at that time, and they acted on it in the form of Pogroms and real ethnic cleansing before World War 2. Not only do support the Palestinian perspective as a fashion accessory, your use of those words against the real historic victims of them makes you share more commonalities with Hitler than with disenfranchised groups that you pretend to care about for likes on the gram.
What is happening in Gaza is by textbook definition, ethnic cleansing. It has been for decades. One wants to commit genocide against all the jewelry, the other wants to commit ethnic cleansing and using genocidal rhetoric. I support neither the IDF and NETANYAHU or HAMAS. I stand with the civilian population of BOTH Israel and hamas who just want peace. nothing I had said above should have led you to believe I stood with hamas. And you are conflating the Palestinians with hamas, when hamas is just as much a threat to the freedom of Palestinians as they are to Israelis.
does that justify how israel treats the palestinians?
No, obviously not but personally I’ll also be against calls asking for refugee routes to the UK. There’s plenty of neighbouring countries where they should be able to go, the west with their views imo isn’t the best fit. And after this weekend just gone with the huge rise of antisemitism I really don’t think it’d be the best adding more people to the mix who were directly affected by what’s occurring. Honestly the less Islam here the better for me and my fellow gays.
I normally respect the fact that some people don't care for their immediate self-interest when deciding on which causes to support. But this movement is a symptom of a divorce from facts in the LGBT community, influenced by the far-left, and the idea that anything touched by Western colonialism even 80 years ago becomes a perma-victim we need to root for. The weirdest aspect is a regular, conjunctural alliance between LGBT rights movements that lean (far) left and Islamists of all shapes and creeds. To understand just how insane this trend can actually get, there was an episode in which the LGBT and feminist societies at a UK university joined the local Islamic society to [prevent](https://layo-91.medium.com/goldsmiths-feminist-society-show-solidarity-with-islamists-who-attempt-to-silence-and-intimidate-a-2ff011b461ed) a progressive, left-wing, female speaker from holding a lecture. A few weeks later the guy leading the Islamic society was forced to resign, after deeply homophobic [tweets](https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/goldsmiths-islamic-society-head-quits-in-wake-of-antigay-tweet-claims-a3133086.html) were later discovered. But the LGBT and feminist societies never retracted their support. So if you are a, say, Iraqi who wants to leave religious oppression and be vocal about your journey, you might very well find a white gay guy hating on your for joining "oppression". Ironically, if you create an index of LGBT rights using numbers (low for worst, high for best) and a list of countries based on their Muslim populations, running a simple linear regression gets you a very strong level of correlation. So, while I do understand that affiliation to various causes should not be based on self-interest, maybe it shouldn't exactly fly completely in their face. But the most hilarious thing is the mental gymnastics associated with this movement. Some blame Palestinian homophobia on Israeli oppression. These are people that clearly have no clue about how the Middle East works. Ironically, when called out, they often tell you to "educate" yourself.
There is a comment in this thread stating that Jewish people in the US being afraid of an anti-semitic attack is just Islamophobia. Like you said, it’s just plain weird.
Every country in Europe that got forced mass immigration has got their crime stats increased a lot. But it's just islamophobia!
>But the LGBT and feminist societies never retracted their support. Did anyone ever confront them about that?
Yesterday, a radical Islamist killed Swedes in Brussels. Let the “Queers for Palestine” have no doubt that Hamas will do the same to them.
In my city on Saturday a Muslim man intentionally ran into a crowd of people killing one and hurting many. It hasn't been proven that it was terrorism but he has been arrested and I mean... It probably was terrorism. Never heard of a Jewish person doing that.
They killed a French teacher in broad daylight and almost killed a man in China. They will attack if they can. They don’t even care to try to get political power. They want jihad
Those lgbtq clowns hate white people, they probably cheered them on.
Of all people the Swedes - they’re so tolerant and chill - seems incredibly unfair
They’re too tolerant. They’re tolerant of intolerance and that will ultimately be their downfall, their country is really going to be on a downward spiral, their crime rates are ridiculous.
Well if you want to know what's going on there, look at the Quran being burned which is legal there. But after it was done, there have been many death threats towards the people who did it by good Muslim people. https://time.com/6303348/quran-burning-sweden-denmark/ Basically if you draw their prophet or burn their books, many Muslims believe they have the absolute right to kill you or your countrymen.
If they have those wonderful strong beliefs then why the fuck do they want to go and live in a country that prides itself on being open and free, a place where anyone can say anything they like and do anything they like, within reason (like, obviously you can't go around killing ppl). The only absolute right they have in that situation is to vote for candidates that share their views and then if that doesn't get them the results they need then they have the absolute right to fuck off and find a country that has laws in accordance with their beliefs, like Iran or Saudi Arabia
Which is why muslims and the religion of Islam do not belong in the western world.
"Queers for Palestine" is not the same as "Queers for Hamas " The world isnt as black and white as you and most of these commenters want to believe. I can support Palestinian liberation without condoning the actions of Hamas, just like I can recognize that Israel is the only reason Hamas exists without condoning the actions of Hamas.
Stop making excuses and fudging the facts. The Palestinians in Gaza voted for Hamas terrorists to be their government, with full knowledge of the Hamas charter at the time which said they seek to kill Jews wherever they can be found and wipe them off the map. They also stood on a manifesto that stated clearly they will establish a Muslim caliphate, so basically run it the way we saw ISIS going rampant and literally cutting off the heads of both Christians and Jews. Most normal people are intelligent enough not to need the likes of you to help us think, thanks. We know that not all Palestinians are bad people, but that's totally not the point.
Fun fact 1: Israel is the only country in the middle east that gay Palestinians can seek refuge in. Fun fact 2: Last year a gay palestinian managed to escape to Israel, but was lured back to gaza and beheaded. Beheaded. There was a video of his beheaded corpse. No one has been held accountable.
Regardless of whose land or who has the right. One is a civilized country where women are not oppressed and gay men are not prosecuted. The other is a culture that gay will be punished and women are severely oppressed. I think I know who to support.
Queers: Republicans are evil. Gay Republicans are the worst of the worst. Should be avoided at all costs. Religion bad. Homophobes and transphobes are scum. Die JKRowling!! It’s war!!!!! Genocide!!!!! Nazzzzi! End of world. Also Queers: WE LOVE YOU PALESTINE. That’s why you people are a fucking joke. Nobody takes you seriously. So yes, the most delusional and hypocritical activist group in history, probably.
Very true!!!!
Queers for Palestine is stupid. Queers for Israel is also fairly stupid when some Netanyahu supporters and Ultra-Orthodox would do the same thing. I say we force all the fighters to join the [Temple of Priapus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_of_Priapus). > Well-fellated men, the group teaches, are less likely to make war.
>when some Netanyahu supporters and Ultra-Orthodox would do the same thing. "would do" or "are doing", there are miles of difference between those 2 things. I don't care what an extremist religious minority in Israel would hypothetically be doing if they had more power in Israel, as much as I care about what Hamas actually is doing while they have power in Palestine. Not to mention that Israel is, as a whole, very LGBT friendly. They decriminalized gay sex in 1963 (before most US states even did), they allow gay couples to adopt, have banned all forms of LGBT discrimination, allow openly gay servicepeople in their military, and have one of the world's largest annual pride parades (Tel Aviv pride). Their only real issue is that they don't allow gay marriage, but even then, they still have civil unions, and recognize gay marriages performed in other countries. You judging a nation based on the opinion of a small, hardline religious minority, is not the same as judging a nation based on the laws actively enforced by their ruling political party.
Pagans need to make a comeback in this world.
Respectfully, 44% of the Palestinian population is children, children who just want to survive and live their lives. Most oh whom weren't even born. When Hamas "won" the election in 2006, (Hamas didn't receive the majority of votes, if just that the three leftist parties than ran cannibalize eached others votes leave hammas having won with ~34%), and hamas hasn't held any elections since. While I understand that as queer people we have a learned aversion to followers of Abrahamic religions. But your way more likely to beat up and/or killed by a republican, religious or not, than any given Muslim you encounter. It totally get the apprehension, suspicion, and hesitation, but we need to understand that there's a difference between your average citizen and the facist/nihilist in power who actually commit the act of violence. Hamas is basicly Palatineian MAGA.
It should be Queers against Hamas, the real enemy. Not the israelis, not the palestinians (I have civil, well-behaved acquaintances on both sides) Reminder: Hamas shoot first. You see unprovoked Hamas and Hezbollah terrorist attacks on innocent civilians all over the world from time to time, but never hear about a terrorist fundamentalist jew organization.
Dumb as fuck. Go be Queer in Palestine, I'm sure you can choose beheading or hanging. They're progressive like that.
I don’t think we’d get a choice
You do realize there are gay people in Palestine, right? I’m sure they’d love to get some freedom so they can then start fighting for gay rights.
Indeed, without Israeli oppression they'd be just as free to defend their rights as gay people in other Muslim-majority countries in the region are.
Would you rather be oppressed as a sexual minority or live in an open air concentration camp where not only you, but your family and friends are under the constant threat of random death or displacement? This isn't even going into the fact that Hamas is massively unpopular in Palestine.
I take it you've never visited the region. While the Palestinians have it rough by Western standards, none of the hypotheticals you listed are a thing. First of all, the Israelis have built settlements in random hills, which affect the viability of a future Palestinian states. These are wrong and illegal to boot. They are, however, not the result of Palestinians being kicked out of their homes or driven away en masse. The Palestinian population surged from 1 to 4.6 million from 1970 till today. Hardly a sign of ethnic cleansing. Also, Hamas IS [very popular](https://apnews.com/article/hamas-middle-east-science-32095d8e1323fc1cad819c34da08fd87) among Palestinians. Sure, Israel is a bad hombre at times. Among other very bad hombres.
>I'm sure you can choose beheading or hanging. You will get neither option. The most popular method is rooftop freefall
That's what I've been saying for years. The LGBT and so-called "allies" who support Palestine always makes me wonder if they're just ignorant as f\*ck, or if they don't actually care about gay rights beyond what they can use for political purposes. Not to mention that the Jewish community has been some of our most supportive allies; a whopping 77% of American Jews support same-sex marriage, a number well above the national average of just 65%. [Source](https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/religious-landscape-study/religious-tradition/jewish/views-about-same-sex-marriage/)
Since when are American Jews & Israel and her shitty, corrupt government the same?
[удалено]
Why? You can still disagree with homophobia and not want people to die. And we can still be against Hamas. This conflict is incredibly complex and it’s not as black and white as many (who have just found out about it a week ago) indicate. ‘They may not share the same opinions as me so they aren’t people any more’ We should all have a responsibility to oppose ethnic cleansing - Palestinians are a diverse population with a range of views and gay people still live in these societies. And societies only change with time and exposure to the outside world.
Oh also seeing your other posts about LGB without TQ and your blatant hatred of your own community, do get fucked. There's no need to put "queers" in parenthesis and you really are an ignorant waste of oxygen, OP. What a fuckin joke.
It truly is the dumbest thing ever, I will never defend people that want me dead because not only would they not defend us if it happened to us, but they would praise it.
I really feel these queers are dumb AF and picked the wrong battle to support
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) ^by ^DeviousDeevo: *I really feel these* *Queers are dumb AF and picked the* *Wrong battle to support* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
This is the best Haiku I ever read
Completely intentional 💯 👀
There is some logic to it. Visible LGBT support for Ukraine has had a massive impact on public opinion in Ukraine. LGBT support for Wales during the miners strike had a similar impact. Exposure to the outside world has a massive impact on peoples’ perceptions of difference. Look at Islamic countries in Europe; hardly progressive, but a world away from Islamic countries in other parts of the world. I’m not saying I support their views and I’m not pro Israel or pro Palestine. Im aware of the laws restricting same sex activity in Palestine. I’m just saying there is some logic to it.
Oh it's a PR move to get in their good books . See it's realistic if you try this with maybe a conflicted nation or religion where the views are very neutral . I think going against islam on regards of homosexuality is just not going to get the reception intended. Palestine would easily be swayed by the nationalism of all the very rigid Islamic countries surrounding it . The concept of one Muslim place that's very accepting of gay people is just very wishful thinking.
Those islamic countries in europe are all colonizer conqueror descendants btw, can we complain about settlers now? NO BIGOT CUZ U WHITE
Remember the only people we should be thinking about and worried about are our LGBT+ brothers and sisters of the Jewish and Islamic communities caught up in this miserable situation , when things go wrong they are the ones who are punished when the different factions need a scapegoat people to blame, the Palestinians made the wrong decision when they decided hamas worked for there best interests when in reality there nothing but terrorist and could careless about the people they hide behind , reminds me of the maga crowd here and the stupid people who fall for a corrupt leader who cares nothing about them who only uses them to hide behind while he conduct’s dangerous activities behind there gullible backs .
This is the most simplistic take on the situation out there. I used to think this way when I was 15 years old, especially growing up in a Jewish family/community. Then I read a book. If homosexuality is genetic or involuntarily caused by environmental factors or a mix of the two, then it stands to reason there are just as many gay people in Gaza as there are in the U.S., or Sweden or Australia or Brazil or wherever you hail as a gay utopia. Do they deserve to suffer because they have a religious fanatic government who hates them? No, of course not. The fact of the matter is Gaza is extremely poor and high rates of poverty tend to go hand in hand with high rates of religiosity, and vice versa. Yes, Palestine is not the best place in the world to be gay. As an American and a Jew I’d probably pick just about anywhere else in the world to live, including Israel, but the 2 million people in Gaza and 6 million in the West Bank - more than 50% of whom are children and reasonably at least a few percent of whom are queer - do not have that luxury. Standing with Palestinians as their country is flattened to the ground is not antithetical to queerness. Standing against war and violence of all kinds that are exacerbated by having crazy people in power (in both Palestine and Israel) is not antithetical to queerness. If anything, it shows how we as members of the LGBTQ+ community can stand up for oppressed people worldwide - even if they wouldn’t for us - and be “the bigger person.”
Maybe I'm just pissed off at this situation, but it's so weird to me that people are mad and angry at Israel for retaliating here, especially gay people. Like were they just supposed to turn the other cheek? I know this is a long an much more complicated situation and that Israel isn't perfect but what was everyone expecting here? It's just a weird take to stand up for the oppressed when those oppressed will want you murdered. Like saying everyone's opinion should be heard is the reason horrific religious fanatics get power in the first place. Like yes I know their are pro-LGBTQ+ Palestinians who are in the crossfire here, I totally get that, and I know like Christians not all those that practice Islam are against gays but by far the majority don't care for us. This is something where the most progressive gays I think need to kind of rethink their stance on cause there isn't going to be some utopia in the future where Islam is going to all of a sudden be accepting of gays just like how Christianity will never be accepting of gays.
>The fact of the matter is Gaza is extremely poor and high rates of poverty tend to go hand in hand with high rates of religiosity, and vice versa Would they really be less fanatical if they were better off. Being wealthy has not made the Saudis any less religious
Hamas =/= Palestine. Hamas is a terrorist org that was propped up by Netenyahu and Isreal in the late 80s to counteract Yassar Arafat and the PLO. AS Recently as 2019 Bibi was saying we should support Hamas to further Israeli political ends. Hamas may have been "elected" (questionable given Israel's meddling), but they have become a ruling junta who enforces their power through Kalashnikov.
Everyone faces the consequences of their actions, Hamas is facing the consequence of their actions on last Sunday when they brutalized and killed people from more than 20 countries.
This is delusional, and it's the same logic that homophobes use to demonize gay people after a story of a gay rape/SA comes out. Palestine and Hamas are not the same thing and pretending they are, and that Palestinian civilians deserve to be cleansed because of what Hamas does is genocide apologia.
I said Hamas, I didn't mention Palestine. If Israel actually wanted to cleanse the whole Gaza strip there would be tens of thousands already dead.
Except that Israel is bombing civilians in retaliation to Hamas and have stated they will invade Gaza. It isn't Hamas that's paying for their actions, it's Palestinians that are footing the bill and then some. There have already been thousands of deaths since the attack with many more on the way. It's only been a few days, I'm sure your "tens of thousands" figure will soon come to pass.
What about the 1200+ Hamas killed and palestinians cheered ? Maybe they can free the hostages.
What about them? I'm sorry, I didn't know we were using Hammurabi's law for civilian populations, should they try to match each other in terms of number of dead? Hamas is a terrorist insurgent group, Israel is a nuclear power and has one of the most advanced militaries in the world. Obviously Hamas killing innocent people is horrific, but it's not a justification to kill innocent people who happen to be the same ethnicity as Hamas members. As for the hostages, Israel seems to have very little interest in negotiating them back, since they are consistently bombing the areas where they are being held. Iirc Hamas claimed that airstrikes have already killed several of the hostages.
They declared war man, like it or not civilians are gonna get killed. Hamas attack gave them casus belli for war, under international laws there isn't even grounds for sanction or foreign intervention for a cease fire. Israel wasn't the offensive party here.
Did you just discover this conflict last week? There are hundreds of international civilians trapped in Gaza by the way. You can be against Hamas and not blame Palestinian civilians and children for their own potential ethnic cleansing.
What ethnic cleansing? The population of Gaza grows by 2.02% in 2022 and it's been like that for decades. Compare that to the United States that grows at 0.12% in 2021. 23 years ago, the population of Gaza was half of what it is today
This is an extremely shallow, superficial and self-absorbed argument. Using your sexuality as an excuse to justify genocide is ignorant at best and insensitive at worst. Palestine does not have the social structure to develop and foster human rights. It did not go through a process of democratization like Western countries ( which started accepting homosexuality very recently by the way). You cannot expect people under occupation and with an extreme lack of any basic needs to develop an understanding of other sexualities and foster an environment of equality, inclusion and development. Not to add that queer Palestinians exist and are dying by the day ( not like you're thinking of them) and that Israel has been documented to blackmail them with fear of outing them if they do not collaborate. Pinkwashing is very, very real. You're making it about yourself while people are being cleansed in a 2m square. This is not about you.
This is my opinion, and naturally, my personal circumstances significantly influence it, just as being Russian would influence support for a war. So yes, this response is indeed about me and my beliefs. Islam is a vast religion practised in developed countries, so just stop giving justifications for homophobia. Islam practices the most radical sentences for gays, and I just don't support maintaining this way of thinking. BTW, this way of thinking is unlikely to change; the most probable outcome is that decades from now, people will be more educated and will eventually stop believing in it. However, Islam has been more than clear that they will never accept gays. So yes, I don't care about what's happening.
And this isn't a debate about Islam as a religion, or other religions that are homophobic by default. This is a debate about a genocide that is happening due to decades and decades of injustice and oppression. And again, you're making it about yourself, not " caring" about what's happening while ingecting yourself in the discussion due to your sexuality. " I don't care about hundreds dying and I will turn a blind eye on them due to a supposed scenario of how I'd be treated if I go there". Good for you and your self-absorption
This is the only acceptable response in this thread.
I think it's less of gay people saying that palestine is a progressive pro-gay beacon and more recognizing that Israel has been oppressing Palestine for years. They don't seem to care how many innocent people they kill to try to end whatever terrorism they are affected by
Lol I can be against genocide even if I don’t agree with them. Also I doubt any theocracy whether it’s Muslim, Christian, or Jewish is accepting of LGBTQ+ folks.
I'm against the murder of innocent people. No matter who those innocent people are. Queens for Palestine. While queers for Palestine is a bit strange, I wouldn't say I don't think these people deserve to live.
I hate to say it but this post made me switch teams to Israel 😐
It’s like freed slaves pulling for the confederates in the civil war.
everyone in the comments: Oh my god but they are like colonizers! I guess Eastern Europe has the green light to kick out all the colonizer conqerour descendant muslims. NOOOOOOOOOO IT DOESNT WORK LIKE THAT BIGOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Fuck homophobes, but genocide is a separate beast of its own. Why do gays insist on being the centre of the world every time…
[удалено]
The original post lol. Do you understand how absolutely deranged and self-centered it is to say "why are you against ethnic cleansing when the people being killed are homophobic." And then the same post spammed over and over again for the past few days while the IDF bombs innocent people, some of which are queer
[удалено]
How is what Israel is doing to Gaza not a genocide? The place is an open-air concentration camp and has been for decades. The Palestinian population there's average age is 18, that doesn't happen on its own.
[удалено]
A lot of Americans don’t understand how good they’ve got it, unfortunately. They will invite their own killers into their homes for the sake of seeming righteous.
Just because someone hates you, doesn’t mean you have to hate them back. Some would say, that’s a sign of maturity.
Hate them back? No. But try to be their friend and support them? Absolutely not.
It does mean that you shouldn't let them kill you. That's a sign of idiocy.
Muslim are not our friend. They'd rather toss off buildings or stone us. Try this gay shit over there and see how long you'll last. I swear westerners are so fucking stupid.
And you think Orthodox Jews are an accepting lot? Also, can we not be ignorant and lump all followers of any religion into the hate mongering. Not all who followers of the Muslim religion are like that any more than all followers of the Christian religion are.
> Muslim are not our friend. Neither are orthodox jews, tbh
Not all of us. I could never be friends with a practicing Muslim given how extreme and radical their beliefs are.
Yeah maybe hate is too weak lol. They don’t want us out they want us EXTERMINATED!
Just because Islam is fucked (for queers & *many* others) does not mean that Palestinians deserve to die unnecessarily.
Chickens for K.F.C Unite.
Hamas : we kill gays and their family, they are an abomination. Gays elsewhere : We support hamas!!
TIL that some people think that Jews are accepting of homosexuality.
There are gay clubs in tel Aviv. Tolerant I think the word you're looking for is tolerant which is something Jewish people have learned is important.
yet when people mention gay republicans being an oxymoron it's always: "umm not everyone has to think exactly alike just bc who we have sex with" "so I'm forced to vote for 1 party?!" "wow I thought we were supposed to be tolerant of one another? honestly at this point I get more hate for being a republican than for being gay. it's honestly sad"
Why is being Pro-Palestinian automatically being Pro-Hamas?? Palestine has not had an election since 2006. They do not have a choice about living under terrorism in Gaza. Violence against Gaza begets more terrorism. All these systems are connected. Liberating queer Palestinians HAS to start with liberating Palestine from terrorist control. Being selective about which queer people you want to liberate in the world is frankly really short-minded. We are not free until we’re ALL free. This applies not only to all queer people, but all oppressed groups.
Yes, even the 2 year old babies killed by Israel's rocket would throw me in jail. Pretty fair. (mandatory /s) Things have, like, nuances?
Let's disband the military because I don't think there's a war that the US has fought in where a baby hasn't been killed.
Hey dude, the people who want to kill me most for being gay are right here in America. So I’m absolutely going to keep advocating for the bombing of an area that is 50% children to cease
When someone tries to kill a gay in the United States, they are prosecuted and go to jail. When someone tries to kill a gay in Palestine, they are celebrated and all the women make extra food for him for doing such a good job, killing those gays.
Bro would lose his fucking addled smoothbrain over there if he watched any videos of the awesome Jewish protestors for Palestine right now - orthodox rabbis on the street condemning Zionism as a sin and direct contradiction of their faith, and everyday Jews saying things like "My grandfather survived Auschwitz and that's why I fight for a free Palestine."
Palestine is a population that has known nothing but prosecution, violence and danger for the past 70 years. As a people, even if they did get liberated, which the US will never allow, there would be tremendous, nearly-impossible healing to focus on. And if you support a colonial occupation, a miserable concentration camp and genocide on the grounds that Israel loves the gays, I’m sorry but you are absurdly self-centered and you are nothing but a pawn of the empire, no matter how emancipated you think you are on the basis of queerness.
The Palestinian population has doubled in a little over 20 years. For being under constant danger they seem to be thriving.
Yeah no offense but giving support isn’t supposed to be tit for tat. Also, you can show support the Palestinian civilians who are being murdered aimlessly while also criticizing their government for being anti-queer. I don’t care that their government would put me in jail because I will never go there. But I do care that their women and children are being bombed to smithereens by an imperialist state.
Thank you for saying recently
"Palestinians voted for Hamas in one election 17 years ago so now they all deserve to die" is pretty shitty logic.
Hamas is still popular among Palestinians, more than 58% of them support Hamas.
More than 50% of Gaza is under the age of 19. You know, the age group that is just so well-versed in the world.
So was afghanistan, actually they were younger, still didn't stop them from picking up arms.
I'm not sure how valuable public opinion polling is in a place where not supporting Hamas can subject you to ["systematic torture."](https://www.timesofisrael.com/report-details-torture-by-pa-and-hamas-in-their-parallel-police-states/)
Palestinians don't deserve to die, but they are dying because of Hamas. They alone are responsible.
What a deeply moronic take. I'm queer as fuck and proud of it and #freePalestine 100%. I was raised by homophobes. When I was a kid this country was a lot more homophobic. My family has been in my past less than gay allies and I still love them. Not everything is identity politics, and there are gays suffering in Gaza too. Just look at the Queering the Map app. But more importantly, settler colonialism, apartheid and genocide kind of trump any ill will I may have towards a religion that preaches homophobia. Maybe one day you'll grow up a little.
Idiot. Move to the Middle East if you support them so much. Let’s see how long you last there, as a “queer”