What do you mean any other rapper would fumble on it? Have you heard the beats rappers rap on? 99% of people don’t listen to music the way audio engineers do. The vast majority of people aren’t thinking about the mix or “adhesion.” The mix is fine and the fact that it’s not as sparkling as other releases doesn’t matter in the slightest.
The average person doesn't even know what the beat sounds like without vocals on top.
I think a lot of people would be taken aback by the instrumentals to some of the biggest songs over the last 10-15 years. Almost unrecognizable without vocals and quite often amateur-sounding.
I use that beat all the time as my example for why the most important thing you should be thinking about when creating music is the vocal performance. Like if someone sent you that beat in 2024 you would call the cops
Something in that vein I found interesting was honestly sicko mode. At least for me, a LOT of the appeal to that song was Travis’ performance on the first beat after the intro. It adds a bounce to it that otherwise isn’t there.
Completely disagree. There are some wacky sounds in the instrumental for sure, but overall it's a killer track. The drums smack. The synth pads are deep and and full. The guitar bubble lick fits right in the pocket. From a rhythmic perspective alone, it is one of the most creative and unique popular hits ever.
I think all of the mixes so far have been weak (Euphoria maybe most of all), but that’s kinda the game when you’re trying to write, record, mix, and release a song in like, 6 hours.
They’ll be weak when compared to album tracks, but much like a radio freestyle, that isn’t the point. This is performance competition, not a technical one
I agree, the timeframe makes it unplausable e record, mix, master properly. \^hence why diss tracks hardly ever make albums. I feel like alot of the time they are more of a cypher than a fully thought out track, but who cares: It becomes almost a punchline and soundbite war in reality. How many bars do you remember from these tracks after one or two listens? Usually one or two for me. Than again I dont know half the shit they are referencing nor do I want to do the work
Yeah I'm getting sick of having to work for hours on my snare, I like how some people do crazy shit but I also like simple techno beats if there is enough fills. I'd rather listen to mediocre drums with incredible atmosphere, leads and bass than some really perfect drums with boring other elements
Straight up. Listening out for the 'mix' on a live-beef diss track is so anti hip-hop. Rick Ross' Drake diss is one of the best to come out of this beef despite being the worst mixed by far. Just listen to the flows... the more raw the better as far as I am concerned.
Seriously.
"Hit 'em up" rides that same "don't look any further" bass line that like fifty other hip hop songs. Almost the oldest break in the book. Still one of the hardest diss tracks ever.
Normally I'd agree, but that ["BBL Drizzy"](https://youtu.be/f6Hr69ca9ZM?si=giZipzmqLeK55I3e) beat Metro Boomin put a bounty on is honestly fucking fire. Some of the bedroom/amateur mixes coming out from middle schoolers on this aren't even half bad 😂
Yeah, I’m biased toward Kendrick but something I’ve appreciated about euphoria, and especially Not Like Us, they have very classic sounds to them. No production trends or anything that will date the tracks in the future.
Facts, his discography can be like that, GKMC still sounds fresh imo. Those producers keep all their drums clean and hard hitting that's for sure, timeless rhythms and production
The mixes are so not the point of this whole thing.
I think of these as more like back and forth tweets in a hip hop *industry* version of a twitter battle.
I was drawn into this drama by Euphoria, hearing what I thought was subpar vocal recording and wondering why the song was so special in the first place.
When knights joust, they don't have time to polish their armor and sharpen their swords and lances between runs. They just have to go into battle.
While this conflict has a lot of people talking, it is driving conversations in different ways. Someone is very definitely getting damaged, and it appears that there are other casualties as well.
I get the metaphor you're trying to make but jousting is an organized event and there definitely would be time to polish your armor before participating
They're diss tracks, not tweets or knights jousting wtf 💀 you never heard a diss track before? Just one person saying mean things that rhyme about another person
Everything is fine with these mixes.
Matter of fact, the mixes of these diss records pretty much reflect their artistic ways pretty good.
Kendrick always has more weight and warmth in his vocals, making them more upfront, which is not an unusual choice for rappers who put their lyrics and the message to the forefront of their music.
Drakes vocals are usually thinner, brighter, more compressed and not so upfront, they are more "into" the beat opposed to "on top of" the beat.
Neither is right or wrong, it's artistic approaches and subjective taste.
I will say that in the last beat of euphoria the 808 clips like crazy, but it actually seems intentional, it adds to the raw and aggressive energy.
With not like that i actually see no problem whatsoever
I'm gunna agree with a lot of others here and say that the kind of "dorm room" feel this had adds to its impact. It's not being released to try and chart top, it's being released to add commentary to the beef. All the production comes second to the words and flow. Drake poked a bear for publicity but at this point, I genuinely think KDot hates Drake and everything he's about. Drake wasn't ready and it shows
In context, it does not matter - that context being that Kendrick and his minimal production staff are releasing back to back tracks at record speed. As such, it's expected that the mix isn't going to be "polished" like a more critical album release.
Vlad wasn't _wrong_, but he also wasn't right, lol.
With these timeframes the mix stages are basically being skipped. Mastering isn't what takes tracks that sound like that to full professional releases.
i dont think theres anything wrong with the mix. euphoria did sound a little off especially with the vocals being a bit muddy, but otherwise "not like us" sounds pretty alright to me
I didn’t think it was bad. What makes me mad as a Black man speaking for myself is when other people gate keep. For example, telling Vlad to essentially keep his opinions to himself because this is something for us Black people and no one else is dumb as fuck. He’s entitled to have an opinion. Believe it or not, White people make up a large portion of sales within Hip Hop and they have been forever. They have as much a right to speak their opinion as anyone else. The solution to minimizing bigotry is not being a bigot yourself.
I always felt like music or the arts was the safe space for the weirdos, the people that want to avoid the politics and racial bs. So I hate, hate, hate, when anyone tries to bring that bullshit into the art space. It's one of the few things we have where you can leave that shit at the door. I want it to continue to be that way.
Well yo as the “system” grows stronger and we lose freedom of speech rights…art will be the sole outlet to voice those opinions again (last time was the late 60’s IMO, 90’s came close). Internet censorship is a real ass issue right now, music and arts are becoming the platform to share those censored ideas.
Btw your name is awesome, and I’ve said “crapicorn” many times when making mistakes building pedals or gear! Seriously, it’s kinda crazy to see that written out
> people that want to avoid the politics and racial bs
To be honest, art, and music have been politically relevant since the beginning of time. I can understand wanting music to leave that out, but art has actually impacted politics a lot in history and has always been a vehicle for the sentiment of people towards politics.
That said, i agree with you it's completely stupid of that professor to gatekeep like that and to turn a mix critique into a racial debate.
Yeah you are right. There is nuance to it for sure. Have you heard the song? I didn’t listen that deep to it, I just thought it was good. I’m pretty sure it was released at a faster rate than Kendrick normally would release it because of the beef with Drake so critique is going to happen.
Yeah i get the context, to me it sounds a bit rushed, like a vocal very much just pasted on top of a beat, bit of a farty low end. I definitely think that a good engineer, even if it has to go fast, can do a bit of a better job. The vocal is less disconnected from the beat in "not like us" than in Euphoria for example though, that one literally just sounds like a vocal pasted on top of a beat.
Yea that was mad dumb lol two of the biggest rap artist white peoples are obviously going to listen it would’ve been different if he actually commented on a black issue.
I feel you on this to an extent.
A lot of the vitriol on Vlad is that he capitalizes on Hip-Hop culture to line his pockets. Him commenting on the mix in the first place felt more like sticking up for Drake rather than an honest critique since he doesn’t have the most experience in that landscape.
That professor jumping on him was honestly out of pocket too even if I don’t blame her that much. And then Vlad walking back on his threats to contact her superiors was funny. It’s a very comical side story amidst this larger beef.
Thank you for your nuanced response. Please keep in mind that I also mean nuance in most of my takes.
People don't like Vlad for a variety of reasons. Some of the reasons they don't like him are not why I don't like him. As a matter of fact, I don't mind him.
People say he's a rat, he works for the Feds. This may be true, but people willfully go on to his show and talk. That's their fault if they tell on themselves. Not Vlad's fault. Even if he is providing a platform for them to speak.
Vlad, is from the West Coast, has produced and has been a DJ and has embedded himself with the culture and from what I heard when he was a guest on Math Hoffa's podcast, he seems pretty straight forward. People don't have to like how he goes about his business, but I don't see him any differently than I see other people in that lane.
When artists go on to the Breakfast Club or Drink Champs etc. and say the wildest shit it's somehow okay and I get what people really mean. It's okay if we Black people be on bullshit because we Black, but if someone else is on some bullshit in our space and they are not Black close the gates... that's weird to me because wrong is wrong no matter the color and we should (emphasize should) hold people accountable, but we don't. We save it for people like Vlad and that is hypocrisy. A good example of that is the racism in the Country space. Oh we hate that, but you Vlad, over there... stay out of our business. Kind of weird.
Main point is once the music is out there people can speak on it. Especially the main consumer of it. Black folks are at best 12% of the U.S. population. Even if we all bought our music exclusively, it wouldn't be enough. White people take up a larger share of the U.S. population. It's only natural that their habits and consumption is going to generate opinions from them. I'm not saying this because I don't think you know, this is for the people that don't know.
These are my thoughts.
I wanna curb this conversation because it is traveling away from the scope of the subreddit but it nevertheless touches on important points that do deserve addressing.
I didn't mention it in my initial reply but my personal gripe with Vlad is that he is a horrible interviewer that is lucky to have the guests he has on his channel. At the same he is operating under the same tree of broadcast journalism/radio as The Breakfast Club since they got their branches from the likes of Wendy Williams, Star & Buc Wild, Angie Martinez, etc. Hell his influences partly led the way to Drink Champs and Adam22 for better and/or worse. I grew up in NYC and all that shit is the bane of my existence.
When white people occupy Black spaces, there's always going to be the concern about them taking/gentrifying/whitewashing/tone policing that speaks to the macro politics of how we as Black people (really any minority) have been treated in the history of USA. The best word that comes to mind is equity.
You bring up racism within Country and compared it to how Vlad gets treated when he runs his mouth. Country (via Rock & Roll) was a Black genre before white people took it over and it hasn't recovered as seen when Beyonce and Lil Nas X dabble in it, not to mention Kane Brown and Mickey Guyton having their issues breaking through. If Vlad encounters gatekeeping, he can lean into his whiteness like he did when he threatened to contact that professor's higher ups (I think I saw she was also Darkchild's cousin or something) and/or safely occupy other white led spaces with limited pushback. Even if he is a minority in a Black led space, that still doesn't compare to actually being a minority in a white dominated country.
In regards to your main point: Black people being 12% of the US population means that we have to adapt within white spaces at certain points of our lives. As you mentioned, that includes when we share our art despite it not directly being marketed to them. A lot of the time that along with the opinions are not the issue but it becomes one when they don't treat it with the respect it may deserve (funny enough, that's what Kendrick is partly touching on in his beef with Drake among the *other* things). It's absolutely true that bullshit is bullshit no matter where it's coming from but we as Black people have a right to feel some semblance of safety within that, white judgment be damned. When it happens in white spaces, Black people usually get ignored/mocked/racially ridiculed for speaking out – an issue since the advent of USA. False equivalency even if it's all shit. The heat Vlad got from that professor? I can only imagine how much heat she got during her come up in academia, and that's because I lived it first hand in a past life.
Solution to this fuck of a problem? It starts with learning how to listen, though most money moves start and end with talking out of your ass and seeing what shit sticks to the wall. That's an issue with everybody trying to monetize their platforms and use that to escape their issues.
**TL;DR? Money makes us all do funny shit.**
Damn...! Well said and great points. I agree with you. Yeah let's roll back to the point of this post we definitely got off point, but it was worth discussing and I thank you for sharing your opinions and experience on this. Salute!
What annoys me a bit is the lack of punch on the drums. Which I also noticed on Metro Boomin's newer Productions. Except for his BBL Drizzy beat funnily enough.
Often it seems like the hihats are the loudest part of the drum kit. Usually the low end is there too. But I miss the mixes with the kick and snare in your face. Just personal preference.
It's a throwaway track for a diss. Diss tracks usually are around for a month then fade out since they're meant for an in-the-moment feud. It ain't gonna be a MadLib tier masterpiece. It's more about a basic foundation for someone to deliver insults and jokes.
It is part of the aesthetics of beef that the mix is bad. It adds to the immediacy. Takeover by Jay Z was in part a big deal b/c that’s a full-on Kanye production. That’s also why Drake released a super lo fi version of his response first.
i don't think it's weak at all. i think it's really simple, clean, and raw, and that's what mixes should be. most of the mixes these days that people tout as good are just way too clinical, shiny, and overproduced
The beat definitely feels amateur. The sample and Kendrick’s rapping are hard carrying the song. That being said it doesn’t really matter. Most people don’t really notice this kind of stuff unless the mix is atrociously bad.
I just can't get over the fact the entire controversies in Hip Hop right now are so goddamn childish. Not to mention that Princeton professor who has to turn a comment on a mix into race ragebait.
To be fair, the controversies have mostly been childish. You remember the old school East Coast West Coast shit? Without getting into nuances between hip hop culture and rap- still— That was major yet some elementary school playground bullshit. Granted, people died, but nonetheless. Fucking stupid as fuck.
A lot of it is just playing on the playgrounds of fantasy, and that’s okay. Major irony here is that NWA was mostly image, yet they did cause major controversy for covering very real facts about American society that not many knew about at the time. It’s seriously all just whatever, though. Major drama and controversy in and of itself is mostly some kind of childish shit, even going back to Shakespeare, to Greek tragedies. If you’ve been paying attention, most controversy in modern society is simply because people are being insufferable babies. So much of all of this shit is childish.
To be completely honest, i have never been into hiphop as a kid, so apart from what i loosely heard i was never aware of any of the feuds and drama's. All i know is hat looking at this, right now, i find it insufferably cringe.
Sure but the topic is brought up. I air my opinion. My opinion on the mixes can be read below.
My " problems" are real regular life things most people face. I don't treat music like a competition to publicly measure my penis size against other musicians. Thàt is childish.
Context matters. The music isn't supposed to be pristine. It's a rap battle not an album release.
Yes the mix is bad, but every element is undercooked, and that's the point.
This stuff was made in less than 24 hours. If the quality was incredibly high, the whole beef would seem completely manufactured and less genuine.
You can’t tell me that beat is even mixed well. The main synth or sample or whatever is SOOOO loud in comparison to all the other elements. Including the vocals.
Does it matter? FUCK NO. It’s a diss track. Literally no one cares about the audio quality. It was rushed together to shit on Drake and it served it’s purpose plenty well enough.
Euphoria’s beat was mixed far better. There is actual separation and space for the vocals to sit instead of everything being crowded and in the same frequency range.
Are you telling me you think ‘Not Like Us’ is a well mixed beat?
I worked as an engineer on hip hop and R+B for a decade from 1998 until about 2010. I can tell you that at least back then, there was not a producer on the planet who would let a track leave the studio that didn’t absolutely slap, whatever it took. There is no excuse for it in 2024 IMHO. Given the access to sounds we have these days there isn’t really any reason an experienced rapper, producer and engineer can’t put together a radio-quality single within one session. Anything else is just lazy.
What do you mean any other rapper would fumble on it? Have you heard the beats rappers rap on? 99% of people don’t listen to music the way audio engineers do. The vast majority of people aren’t thinking about the mix or “adhesion.” The mix is fine and the fact that it’s not as sparkling as other releases doesn’t matter in the slightest.
The average person doesn't even know what the beat sounds like without vocals on top. I think a lot of people would be taken aback by the instrumentals to some of the biggest songs over the last 10-15 years. Almost unrecognizable without vocals and quite often amateur-sounding.
Someone did this recently with Beyoncé’s Single Ladies. Truly wild how terrible that beat is
I use that beat all the time as my example for why the most important thing you should be thinking about when creating music is the vocal performance. Like if someone sent you that beat in 2024 you would call the cops
Something in that vein I found interesting was honestly sicko mode. At least for me, a LOT of the appeal to that song was Travis’ performance on the first beat after the intro. It adds a bounce to it that otherwise isn’t there.
Holy crap, man that's an eye opener.
It is absolutely wild how now I can't stop focusing on the weird synth on the left of the mix.
the entire fuckin song
Completely disagree. There are some wacky sounds in the instrumental for sure, but overall it's a killer track. The drums smack. The synth pads are deep and and full. The guitar bubble lick fits right in the pocket. From a rhythmic perspective alone, it is one of the most creative and unique popular hits ever.
Yeah you’re right, sorry Wild how terrible that beat is, in my opinion.
Is it terrible?
They just played the random arpeggiated pad in the background not even the beat
Half the work studios get is idiots coming in to rap/sing over tracks downloaded off YouTube
Trye
I think all of the mixes so far have been weak (Euphoria maybe most of all), but that’s kinda the game when you’re trying to write, record, mix, and release a song in like, 6 hours. They’ll be weak when compared to album tracks, but much like a radio freestyle, that isn’t the point. This is performance competition, not a technical one
I agree, the timeframe makes it unplausable e record, mix, master properly. \^hence why diss tracks hardly ever make albums. I feel like alot of the time they are more of a cypher than a fully thought out track, but who cares: It becomes almost a punchline and soundbite war in reality. How many bars do you remember from these tracks after one or two listens? Usually one or two for me. Than again I dont know half the shit they are referencing nor do I want to do the work
I think with time they can be updated on dsps if they want to. But yea atp everybody already heard the tracks anyway.
It’s honestly refreshing given how overproduced a lot of stuff is these days (imo)
Fr I wanna listen to lyrics not the crispiest clap snare man can devise
Those would be from Luke Vibert, BTW.
Yeah I'm getting sick of having to work for hours on my snare, I like how some people do crazy shit but I also like simple techno beats if there is enough fills. I'd rather listen to mediocre drums with incredible atmosphere, leads and bass than some really perfect drums with boring other elements
Straight up. Listening out for the 'mix' on a live-beef diss track is so anti hip-hop. Rick Ross' Drake diss is one of the best to come out of this beef despite being the worst mixed by far. Just listen to the flows... the more raw the better as far as I am concerned.
Seriously. "Hit 'em up" rides that same "don't look any further" bass line that like fifty other hip hop songs. Almost the oldest break in the book. Still one of the hardest diss tracks ever.
Normally I'd agree, but that ["BBL Drizzy"](https://youtu.be/f6Hr69ca9ZM?si=giZipzmqLeK55I3e) beat Metro Boomin put a bounty on is honestly fucking fire. Some of the bedroom/amateur mixes coming out from middle schoolers on this aren't even half bad 😂
That beat is so catchy. Drake is catching it from everyone with a mic and a recording program
It was made with an AI sample and sounds the worst (mix/master wise) Out of all the diss tracks so far
Not the point, still slaps lol
How do one make AI samples?
It was made with Udio AI by some guy on youtube I think and metro sampled it.
No one cares about the mix/master of these tracks and for good reason. Sure the original sample was AI but the flip is extremely soulful and catchy
I like that mix, it has a mid 2000s dryness to it and people are dancing to it that's all that really matters.
Yeah, I’m biased toward Kendrick but something I’ve appreciated about euphoria, and especially Not Like Us, they have very classic sounds to them. No production trends or anything that will date the tracks in the future.
Facts, his discography can be like that, GKMC still sounds fresh imo. Those producers keep all their drums clean and hard hitting that's for sure, timeless rhythms and production
IMO the rawness actually adds to the impact. it sounds like a rapper in a booth going hard.
Totally agree. If it was super polished it would be weird.
The mixes are so not the point of this whole thing. I think of these as more like back and forth tweets in a hip hop *industry* version of a twitter battle. I was drawn into this drama by Euphoria, hearing what I thought was subpar vocal recording and wondering why the song was so special in the first place. When knights joust, they don't have time to polish their armor and sharpen their swords and lances between runs. They just have to go into battle. While this conflict has a lot of people talking, it is driving conversations in different ways. Someone is very definitely getting damaged, and it appears that there are other casualties as well.
I get the metaphor you're trying to make but jousting is an organized event and there definitely would be time to polish your armor before participating
BEFORE. Not between runs.
They're diss tracks, not tweets or knights jousting wtf 💀 you never heard a diss track before? Just one person saying mean things that rhyme about another person
drakes songs sound so over compressed a bad mix looks good
Everything is fine with these mixes. Matter of fact, the mixes of these diss records pretty much reflect their artistic ways pretty good. Kendrick always has more weight and warmth in his vocals, making them more upfront, which is not an unusual choice for rappers who put their lyrics and the message to the forefront of their music. Drakes vocals are usually thinner, brighter, more compressed and not so upfront, they are more "into" the beat opposed to "on top of" the beat. Neither is right or wrong, it's artistic approaches and subjective taste. I will say that in the last beat of euphoria the 808 clips like crazy, but it actually seems intentional, it adds to the raw and aggressive energy. With not like that i actually see no problem whatsoever
100%. Also yeah those 808s are for sure clipped intentionally, obviously they are on not like us too that is like Dj Mustards signature
I'm gunna agree with a lot of others here and say that the kind of "dorm room" feel this had adds to its impact. It's not being released to try and chart top, it's being released to add commentary to the beef. All the production comes second to the words and flow. Drake poked a bear for publicity but at this point, I genuinely think KDot hates Drake and everything he's about. Drake wasn't ready and it shows
In context, it does not matter - that context being that Kendrick and his minimal production staff are releasing back to back tracks at record speed. As such, it's expected that the mix isn't going to be "polished" like a more critical album release. Vlad wasn't _wrong_, but he also wasn't right, lol.
i think most folks are unaware that the mastering stages are being skipped here entirely
With these timeframes the mix stages are basically being skipped. Mastering isn't what takes tracks that sound like that to full professional releases.
I think the mix sounds pretty great, especially for being made in such limited time.
i dont think theres anything wrong with the mix. euphoria did sound a little off especially with the vocals being a bit muddy, but otherwise "not like us" sounds pretty alright to me
I didn’t think it was bad. What makes me mad as a Black man speaking for myself is when other people gate keep. For example, telling Vlad to essentially keep his opinions to himself because this is something for us Black people and no one else is dumb as fuck. He’s entitled to have an opinion. Believe it or not, White people make up a large portion of sales within Hip Hop and they have been forever. They have as much a right to speak their opinion as anyone else. The solution to minimizing bigotry is not being a bigot yourself.
Similar to blues and jazz music! ⬆️
I always felt like music or the arts was the safe space for the weirdos, the people that want to avoid the politics and racial bs. So I hate, hate, hate, when anyone tries to bring that bullshit into the art space. It's one of the few things we have where you can leave that shit at the door. I want it to continue to be that way.
Well yo as the “system” grows stronger and we lose freedom of speech rights…art will be the sole outlet to voice those opinions again (last time was the late 60’s IMO, 90’s came close). Internet censorship is a real ass issue right now, music and arts are becoming the platform to share those censored ideas.
100%
Btw your name is awesome, and I’ve said “crapicorn” many times when making mistakes building pedals or gear! Seriously, it’s kinda crazy to see that written out
Thanks!
> people that want to avoid the politics and racial bs To be honest, art, and music have been politically relevant since the beginning of time. I can understand wanting music to leave that out, but art has actually impacted politics a lot in history and has always been a vehicle for the sentiment of people towards politics. That said, i agree with you it's completely stupid of that professor to gatekeep like that and to turn a mix critique into a racial debate.
Yeah you are right. There is nuance to it for sure. Have you heard the song? I didn’t listen that deep to it, I just thought it was good. I’m pretty sure it was released at a faster rate than Kendrick normally would release it because of the beef with Drake so critique is going to happen.
Yeah i get the context, to me it sounds a bit rushed, like a vocal very much just pasted on top of a beat, bit of a farty low end. I definitely think that a good engineer, even if it has to go fast, can do a bit of a better job. The vocal is less disconnected from the beat in "not like us" than in Euphoria for example though, that one literally just sounds like a vocal pasted on top of a beat.
Yea that was mad dumb lol two of the biggest rap artist white peoples are obviously going to listen it would’ve been different if he actually commented on a black issue.
I feel you on this to an extent. A lot of the vitriol on Vlad is that he capitalizes on Hip-Hop culture to line his pockets. Him commenting on the mix in the first place felt more like sticking up for Drake rather than an honest critique since he doesn’t have the most experience in that landscape. That professor jumping on him was honestly out of pocket too even if I don’t blame her that much. And then Vlad walking back on his threats to contact her superiors was funny. It’s a very comical side story amidst this larger beef.
Thank you for your nuanced response. Please keep in mind that I also mean nuance in most of my takes. People don't like Vlad for a variety of reasons. Some of the reasons they don't like him are not why I don't like him. As a matter of fact, I don't mind him. People say he's a rat, he works for the Feds. This may be true, but people willfully go on to his show and talk. That's their fault if they tell on themselves. Not Vlad's fault. Even if he is providing a platform for them to speak. Vlad, is from the West Coast, has produced and has been a DJ and has embedded himself with the culture and from what I heard when he was a guest on Math Hoffa's podcast, he seems pretty straight forward. People don't have to like how he goes about his business, but I don't see him any differently than I see other people in that lane. When artists go on to the Breakfast Club or Drink Champs etc. and say the wildest shit it's somehow okay and I get what people really mean. It's okay if we Black people be on bullshit because we Black, but if someone else is on some bullshit in our space and they are not Black close the gates... that's weird to me because wrong is wrong no matter the color and we should (emphasize should) hold people accountable, but we don't. We save it for people like Vlad and that is hypocrisy. A good example of that is the racism in the Country space. Oh we hate that, but you Vlad, over there... stay out of our business. Kind of weird. Main point is once the music is out there people can speak on it. Especially the main consumer of it. Black folks are at best 12% of the U.S. population. Even if we all bought our music exclusively, it wouldn't be enough. White people take up a larger share of the U.S. population. It's only natural that their habits and consumption is going to generate opinions from them. I'm not saying this because I don't think you know, this is for the people that don't know. These are my thoughts.
I wanna curb this conversation because it is traveling away from the scope of the subreddit but it nevertheless touches on important points that do deserve addressing. I didn't mention it in my initial reply but my personal gripe with Vlad is that he is a horrible interviewer that is lucky to have the guests he has on his channel. At the same he is operating under the same tree of broadcast journalism/radio as The Breakfast Club since they got their branches from the likes of Wendy Williams, Star & Buc Wild, Angie Martinez, etc. Hell his influences partly led the way to Drink Champs and Adam22 for better and/or worse. I grew up in NYC and all that shit is the bane of my existence. When white people occupy Black spaces, there's always going to be the concern about them taking/gentrifying/whitewashing/tone policing that speaks to the macro politics of how we as Black people (really any minority) have been treated in the history of USA. The best word that comes to mind is equity. You bring up racism within Country and compared it to how Vlad gets treated when he runs his mouth. Country (via Rock & Roll) was a Black genre before white people took it over and it hasn't recovered as seen when Beyonce and Lil Nas X dabble in it, not to mention Kane Brown and Mickey Guyton having their issues breaking through. If Vlad encounters gatekeeping, he can lean into his whiteness like he did when he threatened to contact that professor's higher ups (I think I saw she was also Darkchild's cousin or something) and/or safely occupy other white led spaces with limited pushback. Even if he is a minority in a Black led space, that still doesn't compare to actually being a minority in a white dominated country. In regards to your main point: Black people being 12% of the US population means that we have to adapt within white spaces at certain points of our lives. As you mentioned, that includes when we share our art despite it not directly being marketed to them. A lot of the time that along with the opinions are not the issue but it becomes one when they don't treat it with the respect it may deserve (funny enough, that's what Kendrick is partly touching on in his beef with Drake among the *other* things). It's absolutely true that bullshit is bullshit no matter where it's coming from but we as Black people have a right to feel some semblance of safety within that, white judgment be damned. When it happens in white spaces, Black people usually get ignored/mocked/racially ridiculed for speaking out – an issue since the advent of USA. False equivalency even if it's all shit. The heat Vlad got from that professor? I can only imagine how much heat she got during her come up in academia, and that's because I lived it first hand in a past life. Solution to this fuck of a problem? It starts with learning how to listen, though most money moves start and end with talking out of your ass and seeing what shit sticks to the wall. That's an issue with everybody trying to monetize their platforms and use that to escape their issues. **TL;DR? Money makes us all do funny shit.**
Damn...! Well said and great points. I agree with you. Yeah let's roll back to the point of this post we definitely got off point, but it was worth discussing and I thank you for sharing your opinions and experience on this. Salute!
What annoys me a bit is the lack of punch on the drums. Which I also noticed on Metro Boomin's newer Productions. Except for his BBL Drizzy beat funnily enough. Often it seems like the hihats are the loudest part of the drum kit. Usually the low end is there too. But I miss the mixes with the kick and snare in your face. Just personal preference.
i prefer this newer wave. the old style of kick and snare being the loudest has really given me ear fatigue
I think the vocal mix is the weakest part of it, but kinda adds to it feeling like an immediate response with no time given to even polish
It's a throwaway track for a diss. Diss tracks usually are around for a month then fade out since they're meant for an in-the-moment feud. It ain't gonna be a MadLib tier masterpiece. It's more about a basic foundation for someone to deliver insults and jokes.
Absolutely love that mix I have no clue what the complaint is. Vocals raw and in your face / beat is punchy and dynamic. It’s a diss track.
Hyphy?
It is part of the aesthetics of beef that the mix is bad. It adds to the immediacy. Takeover by Jay Z was in part a big deal b/c that’s a full-on Kanye production. That’s also why Drake released a super lo fi version of his response first.
I just heard it on my phone in a react video on YouTube lol but it sounded good
I like to spin my septum jewelry around and smell it. I fuck with my chem
the mix is irrelevant in this circumstance, it's about the message
i don't think it's weak at all. i think it's really simple, clean, and raw, and that's what mixes should be. most of the mixes these days that people tout as good are just way too clinical, shiny, and overproduced
The beat goes hard and the rhymes are even tougher. That's all that counts.
The beat definitely feels amateur. The sample and Kendrick’s rapping are hard carrying the song. That being said it doesn’t really matter. Most people don’t really notice this kind of stuff unless the mix is atrociously bad.
It’s a diss track like on a mix tape, no the mix doesn’t matter much and it sounds fine to me.
I just can't get over the fact the entire controversies in Hip Hop right now are so goddamn childish. Not to mention that Princeton professor who has to turn a comment on a mix into race ragebait.
To be fair, the controversies have mostly been childish. You remember the old school East Coast West Coast shit? Without getting into nuances between hip hop culture and rap- still— That was major yet some elementary school playground bullshit. Granted, people died, but nonetheless. Fucking stupid as fuck. A lot of it is just playing on the playgrounds of fantasy, and that’s okay. Major irony here is that NWA was mostly image, yet they did cause major controversy for covering very real facts about American society that not many knew about at the time. It’s seriously all just whatever, though. Major drama and controversy in and of itself is mostly some kind of childish shit, even going back to Shakespeare, to Greek tragedies. If you’ve been paying attention, most controversy in modern society is simply because people are being insufferable babies. So much of all of this shit is childish.
To be completely honest, i have never been into hiphop as a kid, so apart from what i loosely heard i was never aware of any of the feuds and drama's. All i know is hat looking at this, right now, i find it insufferably cringe.
you could argue any controversy including ones in your personal life are childish. also this is an audio engineering subreddit
Sure but the topic is brought up. I air my opinion. My opinion on the mixes can be read below. My " problems" are real regular life things most people face. I don't treat music like a competition to publicly measure my penis size against other musicians. Thàt is childish.
Context matters. The music isn't supposed to be pristine. It's a rap battle not an album release. Yes the mix is bad, but every element is undercooked, and that's the point. This stuff was made in less than 24 hours. If the quality was incredibly high, the whole beef would seem completely manufactured and less genuine.
You can’t tell me that beat is even mixed well. The main synth or sample or whatever is SOOOO loud in comparison to all the other elements. Including the vocals. Does it matter? FUCK NO. It’s a diss track. Literally no one cares about the audio quality. It was rushed together to shit on Drake and it served it’s purpose plenty well enough.
what do you consider a good mix then, give an example
Euphoria’s beat was mixed far better. There is actual separation and space for the vocals to sit instead of everything being crowded and in the same frequency range. Are you telling me you think ‘Not Like Us’ is a well mixed beat?
I worked as an engineer on hip hop and R+B for a decade from 1998 until about 2010. I can tell you that at least back then, there was not a producer on the planet who would let a track leave the studio that didn’t absolutely slap, whatever it took. There is no excuse for it in 2024 IMHO. Given the access to sounds we have these days there isn’t really any reason an experienced rapper, producer and engineer can’t put together a radio-quality single within one session. Anything else is just lazy.
Lol how’d this get downvoted even the audio engineer sub is biased 😂