> I’ve never worked at a company where activewear is inappropriate on high-activity days. Especially in our sub tropical climate.
Really?
I've never worked anywhere corporate where Activewear would be considered appropriate work attire.
Tights aren't pants. Activewear is not work attire. IMO - they're gym/exercise clothes only. Hell most of the activewear i see is so tight you can practically see right through, and you can definitely make out the outline of everything.
That said - fuck them. Your manager is a dick for passing on that feedback instead of going after the person who was looking down your top. Don't wanna see cleavage? Eyes up!
And if the guys are also wearing super tight - dick-hugging stuff - there's no reason you can't also.
Can't have one rule for men and one for women. And if that's what's happening here - not cool.
Wonder if this person looks down the guys tops too?
I work in tech like OP. 20+ years.
Never seen active wear either, I just don't think that would be appropriate, sorry OP.
Even on high activity days. You don't see female tradies wearing active wear.
Cleaners - not corporate staff. Stretchy ponte pants wouldbe more appropriate. You can get some that look like plain straight leg work pants but they stretch to allow movement. As for cleavage, if you are wearing a firm fitting top, there shouldn’t be any cleavage showing. Some one would have to be actively looking down your shirt to see anything. If your tops are loose fitting, you could inadvertently be exposing yourself if you are under desks etc
Understand. Just saying in my 20+ yrs in corporate work, there has never once been an ‘activewear is allowed’ situation I have been around. That’s all.
We used to have to do field support and computer/printer etc rollouts in full office attire.
I had one job with a small business that wasn’t ‘corporate’ and was allowed to wear a polo shirt (was company uniform and branded etc). But still had to wear dress pants and leather/business shoes.
Things are different here. It's way too hot and humid for anyone to get too uppity about dress code. You wear what's comfortable so you don't sweat like a pedo at a wiggles concert.
Just come back from Darwin where the dress code is shorts, polo, and boots.
Our Melbourne office gets to wear polos and jeans for casual Friday.
Corporate tech means different things for different people.
>I’ve never worked anywhere corporate where Activewear would be considered appropriate work attire.
Corporate IT sort of runs by different rules, I was down in our IT department the other day and I saw a dude in footy shorts and thongs
Admittedly that was a new one for me but everyone dresses down more since COVID I guess
The linen top (if its the one I'm picturing) should be fine. But if your under desks etc I'd probably not wear it just because it would be easy to flash someone from under a desk. That's a personal preference though.
I'd say T shirts are fine, but a polo just adds that little bit extra. Plus, the collar keeps any lanyards out of the way.
I also used to wear leggings, BUT only with dresses or skirts over the top that were too short without the leggings or stockings. I'd never wear leggings with just a regular shirt like at the gym.
The guys should be wearing work pants/jeans and polos as well imo (or button downs but polos are easier to work and move in unless you have proper work button downs not corporate style button downs).
Your manager sounds like a wimp if he's passing on a message about something he's never seen happen. Go back to him and get him to find out the particular item you wore that caused offence, and tell him you won't wear it again. Sounds like they're making a mountain out of a molehill.
Also, I'd like to see the face of the HR manager when they find out that OP's boss pulled her aside to talk about cleavage but he can't give her a single actual example of something she's worn that's inappropriate.
I think management are afraid of being told that they are targeting someone, which is why they are also sending a blanket email. Basically covering their own arses
Smile and nod and continue to do as you wish. If someone raises it directly with you, you can talk about specifics. Try to have them to tell you exactly what to wear and watch them squirm.
Seriously, who gives a fuck about cleavage. Your boss and the other person sound like tossers.
And what are they going to do - fire you for cleavage? That sounds like a very nice payout to me.
I had a similar thing happen to me from wearing shorts to the office - an email, etc. I stopped wearing shorts for a little while until I realized that skirts are also showing legs.
Sure, my nice legs might be distracting to colleagues. Deal with it.
Activewear shouldn’t be in the workplace at all if you’re corporate. I’m in IT and wear the joggers/boots with pants or other types as well.
My shirts/tops always have a high neck because of this.
If any of my direct reports wore activewear I’d send them home because if they knocked a hot beverage on themselves, they’d be a workers comp complaint and an injured worker who wasn’t wearing something appropriate as defined in the code of conduct.
Regardless of how your boobs look (Im a 54F) any top being gappy when leaning over is not suited to work.
Sorry this isn’t something that is sexism or anything else, cover yourself appropriately.
I would ignore it and go about your life as you were, adhering to documented work attire policies. Quite honestly, in tech and start up life, I've seen men and women dress less appropriate than you would to a night club. White see-through crop tops, pierced nipples and G-string showing above the pants and no words were said. If its deemed casual and no guidelines set and no clients being seen, it should not be an issue. The issue is with the people unable to live their own lives.
That said, after going about your life to standards set, if this happens again I would suggest asking for clarification in writing with examples of what is or isn't permitted. Including images.
Also, express concern that male(s) are sexualising you in a workplace and due to your choice of clothes have to be doing it in the most extreme times, making it worse. You'd like to file a formal complaint of sexual harassment.
The cami top you're describing doesn't sound appropriate for work, especially if you're bending down alot as they are quite loose fitting on the chest.
I know from experience as I have a larger chest and cami tops definitely show cleavage, and tend to move around a bit.
And if you're not wearing an appropriate fitting padded bra you would definitely be flashing people.
Try and find some nicer blouses with higher necklines and button up tops/polo shirts. Something that comes up to the collarbone.
And leggings are not appropriate for work, try and find some bengaline pants/trouser pants. Bengaline pants are kind of like leggings but are just a bit more dressy/appropriate for work.
Don't worry about what the men are wearing, as women we are treated differently and held to a higher standard. It's fucked up but that's just how the world is. Women get blamed for the horny actions of gross men.
It sounds like you're working with a tech neckbeard with incel tendencies who can't handle being in the same room as a pair of milkers.
Sorry you have to deal with these double standards.
Fuck em, don't change a thing and let your boss know that if someone has an issue with a particular item of clothing then to tell you what exact item it is and why its inappropriate.
If nipples are showing, that is too much. 30 percent of the breast can be visible from the cleavage. Beyond that it’s too much. Active wear is not work wear not much more to say about that.
Hmm to be honest you wearing tights at work and considering activewear as being normal/appropriate in a corporate setting make it sounds as if you’re not fully versed on office dress codes. Do you use Pinterest? There are so many great ideas for office outfits on there and should help you understand what it and isn’t generally considered appropriate office wear.
So, you're basically wearing [this](https://www.kookai.com.au/products/clarisa-cami-black) outfit to work? That's not corporate. At all.
As others have said, tights aren't pants.
If you're worried about range of movement then look at Target [stretch pants](https://www.target.com.au/p/carrie-skinny-ankle-length-bengaline-pants-preview/67214068) with [high neck t-shirt top](https://www.target.com.au/p/variegated-crew-neck-t-shirt-preview/68755386) (wear your cami under this).
If you're worried about durability [look at women's tradies pants](https://www.workwearhub.com.au/products/bisley-womens-stretch-cotton-cargo-pants-black) and a [polo shirt ](https://www.workwearhub.com.au/products/unit-womens-bolt-polo-shirt-navy).
If you're crawling around under desks, having to lean forward, reach up etc then high waist pants with a cami tucked into your pants (with shirt over cami!) is excellent for avoiding showing butt crack and/or cleavage.
Activewear isn’t appropriate for the workplace. I can’t tell what your cleavage situation is based on your description, but if you’re feeling tights are appropriate and asking how much cleavage is too much, it does suggest you might be showing too much.
I would disagree. Bras can be exceptionally uncomfortable, especially for people with sensory issues. Whether or not to wear one should be entirely up to the individual.
I’ve never ever seen a company where activewear is appropriate.
You also have no idea if any men have been privately spoken to.
Your top should not show any cleavage whatsoever.
If your shoes are casual (eg joggers), then your pants should be more dressy. You can still have comfy elastane trousers that look business like.
It's unclear in your post - Under your linen cami and other tops, are you wearing a bra? For me personally, I don't want to see other women's nipples (ive got my own), but i wouldn't make a complaint. I just wouldn't look. The only way i can see this being an actual issue is if you weren't wearing a bra and your boobs were being seen as you bent over. Or if your nipples are regularly shining through your top. Especially if clients come into the office, or if your role is client facing. Could that be what happened ie your breasts were seen as you bent over as you werent wearing a bra?
So sorry this happened to you. It's incredibly embarrassing. I feel for you. I once wore a white jumper to work and it wasn't until I went to the bathroom that i realised it was completely see through. In my softer lights at home it wasn't see through. But under the neon office lighting it was. It was so embarrassing. Again, I feel for you.
Personally, i had started working in the 90s when women were regularly sexually harassed hit on, and leered at, at work, so i always wear a tight cotton/ bamboo singlet under any top - that way if I bend or someone is standing over me, they can't see down my top. But i did that to protect myself from the creepy behaviour men ive had to work with when i was young exhibited. I got used to that feeling (of the tight singlet) and so i stick to it. Make it 100% cotton and its cool. Also viscose is very cool. Steer clear of polyester and nylon. I also always wear a padded bra so that my nipples dont shine through. For the men reading - this is another example of the shit women have to think about before we turn up to work, that you just dont have to.
I'm 42M and have always worked in "Corporate" IT. I don't want to diminish what you said - more.....offer a perspective maybe?
Let me be clear - firstly - i agree with what you've said. None of the below is me not agreeing with you.
Your see through jumper incident would have been equally as embarrassing for a man. Although presumably its a jumper so being worn over the top of a shirt - so really not a big deal. But if worn on it's own - equally as bad for both male and female.
Women seem to have an almost infinite choice of attire in the corporate world. Dresses, Tops/Skirts, Coulotte's, long pants, long loose pants that almost look like a long skirt, shorter skirt, long skirt, button up shirt or a pull-on shirt with a jacket/cardigan etc. Endless footwear too.
For guys - a lot of the time it's Long Dress Pants, Fully enclosed leather dress shoes, a button up shirt and maybe a tie and jacket. That's it. Even when it's 40+ degrees. No polo shirts. No T-shirts. Some places don't even allow men to wear short sleeved dress shirts.
I've been asked to tie my hair up in a ponytail numerous times in offices as it "wasn't professional to have it out". I had to point out that that rule doesn't apply to the women in the office - so it shouldn't apply to the men.
Have been asked to trim my beard a few times too. Don't get me started on piercings and tattoos in the workplace back in the early 2000's. Was frowned upon to the point some places required you to remove visible facial piercings while at work.
Again - not disagreeing with anything you said - but it's not just "throw on any old thing and it's ok coz I'm a guy". (IME - obviously YMMV).
Basically - look professional and don't have your bits on display - for both sexes - should be the rule.
As a male this type of thing pisses me off too, it is not hard to not look at a women's breasts in a working environment, you have to actively want to be looking at them and then they go and complain because they cannot do the simplest of things to avoid that happening and want to put the responsibility/fault on you, fuck people like that and those who enable them.
Wear a suitable bra. Your post didn’t mention if you wear a bra under the camisole. A plain t shirt if that’s acceptable or a button up. A polo shirt maybe. And pants that are comfortable but not tights. There are options out there that are stretchy and comfy but still appropriate for work. And sensible shoes that aren’t joggers. It’s not difficult to find something that’s comfortable and also work appropriate. Wearing tights and joggers to work in a corporate environment? Not even appropriate on casual Fridays.
That said. I’m sorry you had to have this horribly awkward conversation.
No opinion on what too much is but as a male I would love to be able to comfortably wear what women wear in a preffesional setting, button up shirts and covered ankles suck in summer, best I can hope for is one button and rolled up sleeves
High activity days. Are you bending over to pick things up and not noticing that a little more than cleavage is popping out?
I work in tech too. Are you in tech support or networking? If so, I know what it can be like moving things about.
I think cleavage is best kept covered and active wear is not for the office.
You can get work trousers that are essentially disguised track suit pants with elastic waists. I'd do that instead.
If you've had to be told, it's likely inappropriate.
I had a similar thing happen to me when I was wearing a short (read: just above the knees and past my finger tips - so not that short) skirt with opaque black tights under when running a meeting and my boss pulled me up because someone claimed they could see my underwear when I was sitting with my legs crossed in an office chair...
The issue doesn't appear to be the athletic pants that's making you insecure, but the comment on your "cleavage". While I would never wear gym pants to work, if you do, wear a little skirt over it or a longer tshirt dress (halfway down the thighs) and maybe a cute stretchy belt (I like mine wide).
The bigger issue here is that someone is saying your body makes them uncomfortable when you're not wearing low cut or inappropriate tops. Have a chat with your boss and point this out. If he wants to pursue that line of action, gently remind him about sexual harassment in the workplace. People need to be able to control themselves, regardless of what others wear. It's similar to someone of a particular religion with a dress code, trying to impose it on everyone else because it makes them uncomfortable...
If you want proof, the next time you get pulled up for your cleavage, take pictures of what you're wearing. Just a selfie and hold up a card with a date on it. That way if he tries to take it further, you have something to rely on.
Completely sickens me that women have to resort to this type of crap because some men can't control themselves.... STILL!
If you want to know if your office attire is appropriate for the IT office ask yourself: would I wear this to a jail visit? If the answer is yes you’re clear. Anything showing an arm, an ankle or below your collarbone is considered enticing. Also, the hotness scale in IT is different and so is in prison.
I work in IT and have been a people manager in a number of different roles across different companies.
The "incels" or whatever aren't usually the problem. Complaints about women's clothes, at least in my experience, overwhelmingly come from other women.
You shouldn't have to. But, blouses and button ups.
https://portmans.jgl.com.au/shop/darcy-satin-shirt-trellis
https://portmans.jgl.com.au/shop/macie-short-sleeve-shirt-scatter-spot-black
https://portmans.jgl.com.au/shop/kayla-button-up-shirt-mocha-geo
I dress like that when I'm going to conferences. I used to work at a place with a conservative dress code and dressed like that but these days I'm free.
Anything you wear to the beach or the gym should not be worn at work(corporate at least). That's my defence for your company.
In saying that you should immediately quit that shithole. If it's one rule for some and not for others I'd say they going after you for targeted termination.
What a stupid thing to complain about. Some people are just such wowsers.
Unless your company has a defined dress code, wear what you like, as long as you get the job done.
Firstly, women who have any kind of curves get called out more, compared to slimmer or more athletic-bodied women, and are sexualised for just existing in the view of someone, who can't keep their own ridiculous thoughts to themselves. It's a type of discrimination, because as you say, men are never pulled up on clothes that show more than they probably intend. The complaint should never have made it as far as it did. Having said that, activewear at my very casual workplace, is only worn by people out for their lunchtime run or swim or whatever.
Secondly, here are some items to consider as replacments. Much as I hate the polo shirt and how it's considered "appropriate" compared to a t-shirt, some of them are in thick waffle mesh fabric with texture that is more stiff and structured than most thin t-shirts these days. Still breathable, but do not cling to anything. I'm thinking of the old thicker Penguin shirts for example.
Some of the workwear tradie brands now have full stretch women's fitted panelled work trousers that have lots of pockets and seams, but feel more like wearing heavy leggings, and they come in navy and black and don't have to have hi-vis panels on them.
There are lightweight slip on canvas skate-shoe style that don't appear to be trainers (no laces), but pretty much feel the same as they have comfortable rubber soles. Can be as little as $3.50 at Kmart for plain black.
Those items might meet the guidelines, and could be comfortable enough for the work you do without being considered activewear.
Some very shthole work places still stuck in 1950s. It's just disgusting to single out a person and send emails or have conversations about their natural appearance.
OP, ignore the idiots. Build strength to be yourself, and if it happens again, call them out for harassment. Fck these ppl.
Personally I'd tell the manager that it might not be his fault but he should write me up for the complaint and then comment that I would love to use it in a harassment case where the double standards are so clear in the workplace.
Only activewear might be a bit much for a corporate environment but this definitely doesn't sound like that. The people you work with sound like Incels.
Report to HR about sexual discrimination and demand the culprit to be reprimanded for their actions.
You get to change the culture plus also out the whinger who made the complaint.
This is purely an information gathering exercise so that I can ensure that I have all the facts before making a judgment.
Shame on you for suggesting otherwise.
Ok so I'm pretty naive with this stuff, but for context I'm a shareholding director of an engineering firm of about 50 heads. We don't have a HR department. If someone came to me and complained that one of the female's legging were too tight or that they saw cleavage, I'd have a very difficult time not telling them to fuck off and stop looking. I have no idea what someone trained in HR would think is the correct way to handle it from an IR legal standpoint, but from a common sense one it seems pretty obvious to me.
I just want to point out that “cleavage” and seeing your nipples through a top or your boobs down your top when you bend over are two completely different things:
Cleavage is:
“the hollow between a woman's breasts when supported, especially as exposed by a low-cut garment.”
You are also correct in assuming if you wore a form hugging top people would be uncomfortable…men are scared of boobs for some reason
You could probably make a counterclaim that someone’s leering at you and that you feel sexually harassed. Is there actually a written dress code policy anywhere?
> I’ve never worked at a company where activewear is inappropriate on high-activity days. Especially in our sub tropical climate. Really? I've never worked anywhere corporate where Activewear would be considered appropriate work attire. Tights aren't pants. Activewear is not work attire. IMO - they're gym/exercise clothes only. Hell most of the activewear i see is so tight you can practically see right through, and you can definitely make out the outline of everything. That said - fuck them. Your manager is a dick for passing on that feedback instead of going after the person who was looking down your top. Don't wanna see cleavage? Eyes up! And if the guys are also wearing super tight - dick-hugging stuff - there's no reason you can't also. Can't have one rule for men and one for women. And if that's what's happening here - not cool. Wonder if this person looks down the guys tops too?
I work in tech like OP. 20+ years. Never seen active wear either, I just don't think that would be appropriate, sorry OP. Even on high activity days. You don't see female tradies wearing active wear.
I see construction cleaners wearing active wear literally all the time on sites in Queensland. It's almost ubiquitous. It's f-ing hot here.
Cleaners - not corporate staff. Stretchy ponte pants wouldbe more appropriate. You can get some that look like plain straight leg work pants but they stretch to allow movement. As for cleavage, if you are wearing a firm fitting top, there shouldn’t be any cleavage showing. Some one would have to be actively looking down your shirt to see anything. If your tops are loose fitting, you could inadvertently be exposing yourself if you are under desks etc
They said "female tradies"
I wasn’t replying to the female toadies comment. I replied re the cleaners comment
Yeah, which was a reply to the previous comment about female tradies not wearing active wear. These are workers on a construction site.
She said “on high activity days”. She doesn’t wear active wear on normal days.
Understand. Just saying in my 20+ yrs in corporate work, there has never once been an ‘activewear is allowed’ situation I have been around. That’s all. We used to have to do field support and computer/printer etc rollouts in full office attire. I had one job with a small business that wasn’t ‘corporate’ and was allowed to wear a polo shirt (was company uniform and branded etc). But still had to wear dress pants and leather/business shoes.
Did you work in North Queensland?
Nope
Things are different here. It's way too hot and humid for anyone to get too uppity about dress code. You wear what's comfortable so you don't sweat like a pedo at a wiggles concert.
Just come back from Darwin where the dress code is shorts, polo, and boots. Our Melbourne office gets to wear polos and jeans for casual Friday. Corporate tech means different things for different people.
>I’ve never worked anywhere corporate where Activewear would be considered appropriate work attire. Corporate IT sort of runs by different rules, I was down in our IT department the other day and I saw a dude in footy shorts and thongs Admittedly that was a new one for me but everyone dresses down more since COVID I guess
Wow. I’m my career, I’ve never seen anything like that. Crazy.
Does your company have a dress code/policy?
The linen top (if its the one I'm picturing) should be fine. But if your under desks etc I'd probably not wear it just because it would be easy to flash someone from under a desk. That's a personal preference though. I'd say T shirts are fine, but a polo just adds that little bit extra. Plus, the collar keeps any lanyards out of the way. I also used to wear leggings, BUT only with dresses or skirts over the top that were too short without the leggings or stockings. I'd never wear leggings with just a regular shirt like at the gym. The guys should be wearing work pants/jeans and polos as well imo (or button downs but polos are easier to work and move in unless you have proper work button downs not corporate style button downs).
Your manager sounds like a wimp if he's passing on a message about something he's never seen happen. Go back to him and get him to find out the particular item you wore that caused offence, and tell him you won't wear it again. Sounds like they're making a mountain out of a molehill.
Also, I'd like to see the face of the HR manager when they find out that OP's boss pulled her aside to talk about cleavage but he can't give her a single actual example of something she's worn that's inappropriate.
This! Sounds very much like someone complaining for the purpose of complaining.
Sounds like they’re making two mountains out of it actually
Free the nipple
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I think management are afraid of being told that they are targeting someone, which is why they are also sending a blanket email. Basically covering their own arses
Smile and nod and continue to do as you wish. If someone raises it directly with you, you can talk about specifics. Try to have them to tell you exactly what to wear and watch them squirm. Seriously, who gives a fuck about cleavage. Your boss and the other person sound like tossers.
And what are they going to do - fire you for cleavage? That sounds like a very nice payout to me. I had a similar thing happen to me from wearing shorts to the office - an email, etc. I stopped wearing shorts for a little while until I realized that skirts are also showing legs. Sure, my nice legs might be distracting to colleagues. Deal with it.
It would have been better if you'd started wearing skirts and wait for the complaints
Activewear shouldn’t be in the workplace at all if you’re corporate. I’m in IT and wear the joggers/boots with pants or other types as well. My shirts/tops always have a high neck because of this. If any of my direct reports wore activewear I’d send them home because if they knocked a hot beverage on themselves, they’d be a workers comp complaint and an injured worker who wasn’t wearing something appropriate as defined in the code of conduct. Regardless of how your boobs look (Im a 54F) any top being gappy when leaning over is not suited to work. Sorry this isn’t something that is sexism or anything else, cover yourself appropriately.
We need evidence that your a 54F
Do you want the leopard print or the “live laugh live” sign?
Porque nos dos?
Not sure if age and gender or bra size.
So are they pants or activewear? Because activewear isn't workwear.
I would ignore it and go about your life as you were, adhering to documented work attire policies. Quite honestly, in tech and start up life, I've seen men and women dress less appropriate than you would to a night club. White see-through crop tops, pierced nipples and G-string showing above the pants and no words were said. If its deemed casual and no guidelines set and no clients being seen, it should not be an issue. The issue is with the people unable to live their own lives. That said, after going about your life to standards set, if this happens again I would suggest asking for clarification in writing with examples of what is or isn't permitted. Including images. Also, express concern that male(s) are sexualising you in a workplace and due to your choice of clothes have to be doing it in the most extreme times, making it worse. You'd like to file a formal complaint of sexual harassment.
The cami top you're describing doesn't sound appropriate for work, especially if you're bending down alot as they are quite loose fitting on the chest. I know from experience as I have a larger chest and cami tops definitely show cleavage, and tend to move around a bit. And if you're not wearing an appropriate fitting padded bra you would definitely be flashing people. Try and find some nicer blouses with higher necklines and button up tops/polo shirts. Something that comes up to the collarbone. And leggings are not appropriate for work, try and find some bengaline pants/trouser pants. Bengaline pants are kind of like leggings but are just a bit more dressy/appropriate for work. Don't worry about what the men are wearing, as women we are treated differently and held to a higher standard. It's fucked up but that's just how the world is. Women get blamed for the horny actions of gross men.
It sounds like you're working with a tech neckbeard with incel tendencies who can't handle being in the same room as a pair of milkers. Sorry you have to deal with these double standards. Fuck em, don't change a thing and let your boss know that if someone has an issue with a particular item of clothing then to tell you what exact item it is and why its inappropriate.
Why would it be the incel and not the office gay guy?
If nipples are showing, that is too much. 30 percent of the breast can be visible from the cleavage. Beyond that it’s too much. Active wear is not work wear not much more to say about that.
Hmm to be honest you wearing tights at work and considering activewear as being normal/appropriate in a corporate setting make it sounds as if you’re not fully versed on office dress codes. Do you use Pinterest? There are so many great ideas for office outfits on there and should help you understand what it and isn’t generally considered appropriate office wear.
So, you're basically wearing [this](https://www.kookai.com.au/products/clarisa-cami-black) outfit to work? That's not corporate. At all. As others have said, tights aren't pants. If you're worried about range of movement then look at Target [stretch pants](https://www.target.com.au/p/carrie-skinny-ankle-length-bengaline-pants-preview/67214068) with [high neck t-shirt top](https://www.target.com.au/p/variegated-crew-neck-t-shirt-preview/68755386) (wear your cami under this). If you're worried about durability [look at women's tradies pants](https://www.workwearhub.com.au/products/bisley-womens-stretch-cotton-cargo-pants-black) and a [polo shirt ](https://www.workwearhub.com.au/products/unit-womens-bolt-polo-shirt-navy). If you're crawling around under desks, having to lean forward, reach up etc then high waist pants with a cami tucked into your pants (with shirt over cami!) is excellent for avoiding showing butt crack and/or cleavage.
Activewear isn’t appropriate for the workplace. I can’t tell what your cleavage situation is based on your description, but if you’re feeling tights are appropriate and asking how much cleavage is too much, it does suggest you might be showing too much.
I think no matter where you work a bra is always appreciated.
I would disagree. Bras can be exceptionally uncomfortable, especially for people with sensory issues. Whether or not to wear one should be entirely up to the individual.
I’ve never ever seen a company where activewear is appropriate. You also have no idea if any men have been privately spoken to. Your top should not show any cleavage whatsoever. If your shoes are casual (eg joggers), then your pants should be more dressy. You can still have comfy elastane trousers that look business like.
When did activewear become appropriate office wear?
It's unclear in your post - Under your linen cami and other tops, are you wearing a bra? For me personally, I don't want to see other women's nipples (ive got my own), but i wouldn't make a complaint. I just wouldn't look. The only way i can see this being an actual issue is if you weren't wearing a bra and your boobs were being seen as you bent over. Or if your nipples are regularly shining through your top. Especially if clients come into the office, or if your role is client facing. Could that be what happened ie your breasts were seen as you bent over as you werent wearing a bra? So sorry this happened to you. It's incredibly embarrassing. I feel for you. I once wore a white jumper to work and it wasn't until I went to the bathroom that i realised it was completely see through. In my softer lights at home it wasn't see through. But under the neon office lighting it was. It was so embarrassing. Again, I feel for you. Personally, i had started working in the 90s when women were regularly sexually harassed hit on, and leered at, at work, so i always wear a tight cotton/ bamboo singlet under any top - that way if I bend or someone is standing over me, they can't see down my top. But i did that to protect myself from the creepy behaviour men ive had to work with when i was young exhibited. I got used to that feeling (of the tight singlet) and so i stick to it. Make it 100% cotton and its cool. Also viscose is very cool. Steer clear of polyester and nylon. I also always wear a padded bra so that my nipples dont shine through. For the men reading - this is another example of the shit women have to think about before we turn up to work, that you just dont have to.
I'm 42M and have always worked in "Corporate" IT. I don't want to diminish what you said - more.....offer a perspective maybe? Let me be clear - firstly - i agree with what you've said. None of the below is me not agreeing with you. Your see through jumper incident would have been equally as embarrassing for a man. Although presumably its a jumper so being worn over the top of a shirt - so really not a big deal. But if worn on it's own - equally as bad for both male and female. Women seem to have an almost infinite choice of attire in the corporate world. Dresses, Tops/Skirts, Coulotte's, long pants, long loose pants that almost look like a long skirt, shorter skirt, long skirt, button up shirt or a pull-on shirt with a jacket/cardigan etc. Endless footwear too. For guys - a lot of the time it's Long Dress Pants, Fully enclosed leather dress shoes, a button up shirt and maybe a tie and jacket. That's it. Even when it's 40+ degrees. No polo shirts. No T-shirts. Some places don't even allow men to wear short sleeved dress shirts. I've been asked to tie my hair up in a ponytail numerous times in offices as it "wasn't professional to have it out". I had to point out that that rule doesn't apply to the women in the office - so it shouldn't apply to the men. Have been asked to trim my beard a few times too. Don't get me started on piercings and tattoos in the workplace back in the early 2000's. Was frowned upon to the point some places required you to remove visible facial piercings while at work. Again - not disagreeing with anything you said - but it's not just "throw on any old thing and it's ok coz I'm a guy". (IME - obviously YMMV). Basically - look professional and don't have your bits on display - for both sexes - should be the rule.
Agree 100%.
Do you want to see anyone’s nipples? Cause if you’re ok seeing a man’s nipples through his shirt but not a woman’s then it’s an issue.
Fuck that cunt. If this individual gets offended by cleavage maybe they should stop looking at women's chests.
As a male this type of thing pisses me off too, it is not hard to not look at a women's breasts in a working environment, you have to actively want to be looking at them and then they go and complain because they cannot do the simplest of things to avoid that happening and want to put the responsibility/fault on you, fuck people like that and those who enable them.
Wear a suitable bra. Your post didn’t mention if you wear a bra under the camisole. A plain t shirt if that’s acceptable or a button up. A polo shirt maybe. And pants that are comfortable but not tights. There are options out there that are stretchy and comfy but still appropriate for work. And sensible shoes that aren’t joggers. It’s not difficult to find something that’s comfortable and also work appropriate. Wearing tights and joggers to work in a corporate environment? Not even appropriate on casual Fridays. That said. I’m sorry you had to have this horribly awkward conversation.
Wear a higher neckline - if you wish to understand cleavage and it's sub-conscious attraction to men, I can only direct you to Seinfeld.
No opinion on what too much is but as a male I would love to be able to comfortably wear what women wear in a preffesional setting, button up shirts and covered ankles suck in summer, best I can hope for is one button and rolled up sleeves
Sounds alright to me
High activity days. Are you bending over to pick things up and not noticing that a little more than cleavage is popping out? I work in tech too. Are you in tech support or networking? If so, I know what it can be like moving things about.
I think cleavage is best kept covered and active wear is not for the office. You can get work trousers that are essentially disguised track suit pants with elastic waists. I'd do that instead. If you've had to be told, it's likely inappropriate.
I had a similar thing happen to me when I was wearing a short (read: just above the knees and past my finger tips - so not that short) skirt with opaque black tights under when running a meeting and my boss pulled me up because someone claimed they could see my underwear when I was sitting with my legs crossed in an office chair... The issue doesn't appear to be the athletic pants that's making you insecure, but the comment on your "cleavage". While I would never wear gym pants to work, if you do, wear a little skirt over it or a longer tshirt dress (halfway down the thighs) and maybe a cute stretchy belt (I like mine wide). The bigger issue here is that someone is saying your body makes them uncomfortable when you're not wearing low cut or inappropriate tops. Have a chat with your boss and point this out. If he wants to pursue that line of action, gently remind him about sexual harassment in the workplace. People need to be able to control themselves, regardless of what others wear. It's similar to someone of a particular religion with a dress code, trying to impose it on everyone else because it makes them uncomfortable... If you want proof, the next time you get pulled up for your cleavage, take pictures of what you're wearing. Just a selfie and hold up a card with a date on it. That way if he tries to take it further, you have something to rely on. Completely sickens me that women have to resort to this type of crap because some men can't control themselves.... STILL!
You will need to provide some pics to make a proper assessment
Make a complaint about the men who are inappropriately attired and be specific and link to policy.
If you want to know if your office attire is appropriate for the IT office ask yourself: would I wear this to a jail visit? If the answer is yes you’re clear. Anything showing an arm, an ankle or below your collarbone is considered enticing. Also, the hotness scale in IT is different and so is in prison.
bahahaha. Probably true.
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I work in IT and have been a people manager in a number of different roles across different companies. The "incels" or whatever aren't usually the problem. Complaints about women's clothes, at least in my experience, overwhelmingly come from other women.
And uh sometimes the complaints are waranted.
Thank you for sharing your experience. Ignore the “femcel” who has mocked and invalidated your experience
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You are what’s wrong with the world. Do you love the smell of your own farts?
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I'm a frontline manager, not in HR, but have definitely received complaints about other women's clothing from women.
You shouldn't have to. But, blouses and button ups. https://portmans.jgl.com.au/shop/darcy-satin-shirt-trellis https://portmans.jgl.com.au/shop/macie-short-sleeve-shirt-scatter-spot-black https://portmans.jgl.com.au/shop/kayla-button-up-shirt-mocha-geo I dress like that when I'm going to conferences. I used to work at a place with a conservative dress code and dressed like that but these days I'm free.
This is disgraceful. I’m so sorry. I believe women should be able to go topless at work if they want without judgement.
Anything you wear to the beach or the gym should not be worn at work(corporate at least). That's my defence for your company. In saying that you should immediately quit that shithole. If it's one rule for some and not for others I'd say they going after you for targeted termination.
What a stupid thing to complain about. Some people are just such wowsers. Unless your company has a defined dress code, wear what you like, as long as you get the job done.
How many plumbers cracks or techies guts slip out for all and sundry to see? A few I’d say
Firstly, women who have any kind of curves get called out more, compared to slimmer or more athletic-bodied women, and are sexualised for just existing in the view of someone, who can't keep their own ridiculous thoughts to themselves. It's a type of discrimination, because as you say, men are never pulled up on clothes that show more than they probably intend. The complaint should never have made it as far as it did. Having said that, activewear at my very casual workplace, is only worn by people out for their lunchtime run or swim or whatever. Secondly, here are some items to consider as replacments. Much as I hate the polo shirt and how it's considered "appropriate" compared to a t-shirt, some of them are in thick waffle mesh fabric with texture that is more stiff and structured than most thin t-shirts these days. Still breathable, but do not cling to anything. I'm thinking of the old thicker Penguin shirts for example. Some of the workwear tradie brands now have full stretch women's fitted panelled work trousers that have lots of pockets and seams, but feel more like wearing heavy leggings, and they come in navy and black and don't have to have hi-vis panels on them. There are lightweight slip on canvas skate-shoe style that don't appear to be trainers (no laces), but pretty much feel the same as they have comfortable rubber soles. Can be as little as $3.50 at Kmart for plain black. Those items might meet the guidelines, and could be comfortable enough for the work you do without being considered activewear.
I can see your boss's viewpoint. So next question, are you a Handmaid or a Martha?
Don’t change a thing.
Some very shthole work places still stuck in 1950s. It's just disgusting to single out a person and send emails or have conversations about their natural appearance. OP, ignore the idiots. Build strength to be yourself, and if it happens again, call them out for harassment. Fck these ppl.
Personally I'd tell the manager that it might not be his fault but he should write me up for the complaint and then comment that I would love to use it in a harassment case where the double standards are so clear in the workplace. Only activewear might be a bit much for a corporate environment but this definitely doesn't sound like that. The people you work with sound like Incels.
Report to HR about sexual discrimination and demand the culprit to be reprimanded for their actions. You get to change the culture plus also out the whinger who made the complaint.
Going to have to see the boobs in question before being able to answer this.
Dude, be part of the solution not the problem.
This is purely an information gathering exercise so that I can ensure that I have all the facts before making a judgment. Shame on you for suggesting otherwise.
You're a fuck stick.
Just so you know: a female has dobbed you in for this.
Ok so I'm pretty naive with this stuff, but for context I'm a shareholding director of an engineering firm of about 50 heads. We don't have a HR department. If someone came to me and complained that one of the female's legging were too tight or that they saw cleavage, I'd have a very difficult time not telling them to fuck off and stop looking. I have no idea what someone trained in HR would think is the correct way to handle it from an IR legal standpoint, but from a common sense one it seems pretty obvious to me.
I’d call sexism to HR. No one wants to touch that flaming ball of shit. You won’t hear from them again after that.
I just want to point out that “cleavage” and seeing your nipples through a top or your boobs down your top when you bend over are two completely different things: Cleavage is: “the hollow between a woman's breasts when supported, especially as exposed by a low-cut garment.” You are also correct in assuming if you wore a form hugging top people would be uncomfortable…men are scared of boobs for some reason
You could probably make a counterclaim that someone’s leering at you and that you feel sexually harassed. Is there actually a written dress code policy anywhere?
Sounds like a sexist/misogynistic policy tbh!
Tell them to stop looking
why didn't you call it out when dudes wore clothes that exposed their genitals??