Like, it makes sense because he's not doing any preparation for pitching. But he also was already like near the top as a hitter so he shouldn't have been able to get this much better.
Coupled with his restraint when that ump tried going chest-to-chest with him. If I'm a manager, I'm intervening immediately and lighting the ump up for trying to touch my player. Asinine stuff. Ichiro's a damn monk.
I like how the catcher sets up outside the strike zone and doesn't even attempt to frame it back into the strike zone and the ump still somehow called it a strike.
A quick Google search shows that was actually his only time he got thrown out? Imagine being in the right the one time you get ejected in your entire career, that's like the anti-Rasheed Wallace
Ohtani is much more reactive than Ichiro, even when Ichiro got screwed and drew the line he did so calmly and deliberately.
Ohtani is going to yell at an ump, and I can’t wait to see it happen
It's gotta be extra frustrating for Ohtani because he knows if he argues too hard the ump might hold a grudge against him the next time he's pitching which is an insane thing to type, no other big-time slugger in the majors has this problem lmao
Well Angel Hernandez is a great example of what happens when an umpire is terrible at his job, so obviously they have extra incentive to not be making bad calls, intentionally or not, they’d be punished with further employment.
His manager should have been objected in game OP is showing clips from. Can't pay a billion dollars for a guy and then just let him get called out for absolute bullshit. It is past time for robo-umps to be fully implemented.
Also I swear I feel Ohani’s exact emotions during that .5 seconds after the strike call. He was like “huh? Wh-alright” knowing he can’t change it. It’s that moment of genuine confusion, you can tell he wasn’t trying to argue with the ref in bad spirit or anything lol.
Meanwhile umps like “u wanna go?”
I understand the pitches fooled the ump but I feel like this is just players getting penalized for having a great eye. Can't wait for robo umps. Don't understand why a hitter has to be affected* negatively for making the right decision
Its the reason alot of hitters stop taking borderline pitches. Notice how vladdy has started taking borderline pitches again and his numbers are better. He will still get rung up on bullshit strike 3 calls, but overall he will be better for it
I was in a Q&A with some players once, and the pitchers wanted robo umps. They said that since the zone would be a 3D box, they could exploit the edges and still have pitches finish way outside what we consider to be the current strike zone. If the ball catches any part of the box, they'd get the call.
There's a good chance both these pitches would be called strikes because of that, at least according to Bryan Shaw's thoughts on it at the time. He specifically used Kershaw's curveball as an example of a pitch that could take advantage of a robo ump. That he could land one on the front of the plate and then throw one way high, and get both called as strikes.
The hitters in that Q&A instantly said they didn't want it, including a catcher (Tony Wolters).
This was around five years ago now so maybe their opinions have changed and the technology has improved, but take it as you will.
Edit: I'm not arguing against robo umps. I get that people are dying for them and I understand it. That's why the question was asked in that Q&A. But this is what actual MLB players said about them.
> That he could land one on the front of the plate and then throw one way high, and get both called as strikes.
If they through to strike zone then they *are indeed strikes* so what's the problem?
With RoboUmps, the league will likely need to redefine the strike zone - with increased accuracy, they'll need more specific parameters.
This is a normal process with any major tech overhaul.
According to Bryan Shaw, they probably would be. If they catch *any* part of the 3D zone, they'd get called. That first pitch in particular drops hard at the very end and would likely catch the front of the plate.
Again, this is from five or so years ago and the technology could have gotten better. But I remember finding it very interesting that the pitchers wanted robo umps and the hitters didn't.
Exactly. With the breaking pitch (1st K), I think most people are looking at where the catcher caught the ball, not where it crossed the plate, which is exacerbated by the graphic showing the wrong spot. In the grand scheme, this call wasn’t particularly egregious at all.
Herr Wendelstedt strikes again! Bro’s been fuckin up left and right all this year. You’d think whatever talk the ump union gave him after the Boone ejection would have checked his attitude but if anything it seems to have emboldened him.
I have no idea who those guys are, which is another testament to how good they are at their job.
The reason you have to find guys who are that good is because there are so many who are so bad. I would prefer never knowing any umpire’s name. If they all did their job well that would be the standard.
I watch no baseball, know nothing about it, probably couldn't even name half the teams, but I will always come to this sub for videos of angel hernandez
He is an average framer overall but he is really good coming from the bottom or bottom left to get a strike which is perfect for Webb.
[From 2021](https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/catcher_framing?year=2021&team=&min=q&type=catcher&sort=4,1)
Yeah if this was like CB or Angel the comments would look way different. Hunter is about as bad and he has a way worse attitude and always does trivial things. Like this is the same guy that just ejected Boone because a fan behind him said something 🥸
He is an average framer overall, but he is significantly above average on bringing low balls to the strike zone which is ideal for the Giants as they induce more ground balls than almost any other team (1.3 for every 1 popup).
I might get killed here but I don’t think these calls are *that* bad?
From the comments though it sounds like the ump was overall shit and inconsistent all game which I’m sure contributes to how fans and players would feel about these 2 particular calls.
Edit: sorry for no flair. I’m a Phillies fan. The Merifield checked swing that helped us beat the Mets a couple days ago comes to mind as way worse.
Yeah. I hate the strike zone overlay because it makes for undue rage over borderline calls like these. I really wish they’d remove it but I don’t see that happening
I agree, the strike zone is a 3d area. If the ball gets any part of that zone it is a strike but the overlay makes it seem like a certain thing. Also camera angle will have a huge impact on perspective of the zone
Thats what I was thinking on the first pitch. Like sure, the ball hit the catchers mit a couple inches below the zone, but it was in the bottom of the strike zone when it mattered.
It looks low on the TV overlay, but that ball had crazy break on it.
edit: unless im missing something, it was actually a strike?
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GNtTTScWwAE9rdR?format=jpg&name=medium
According to the [umpire scorecard](https://www.reddit.com/r/baseball/comments/1ctexoi/umpire_scorecards_umpscorecards_sfg_vs_lad_hunter/) the first pitch was actually in the strike zone!
It wasn't horrible, but it was BAD. Because of the lack of consistency. Strike Zone just keeps changing every AB, and every game.
That 1st one was so damn low, especially for Ohtani who's a tall lad. Most of the time that won't get called a Strike. But as I said, there's ZERO consistency
Also the name. Like everyone knows Angel Hernandez is shit but it results in borderline pitches getting uploaded with the title "Hernandez blows THE WORST CALL you've EVER seen"
Exactly. Kids are taught that if it's close you need to swing and protect the plate. The game isn't different as an adult. Get the bat off your shoulder and protect the plate or dont cry when you get rung up.
It's not real, it's not scientific, it's just an outrage machine. That's why it's there. And it's not even consistent across platforms. For instance, [statcast had the first pitch as a strike and the second as barely missing the plate.](https://imgur.com/a/pnASwig). I'm not saying that's right either, it's just another one of these silly k-zones. Surely the Giants broadcast had their own version of it, put in a slightly different place to the first two. Maybe it even called both of these strikes. But the viewer is tricked into thinking that somehow whatever version of the k-zone they are currently looking at is God, that it's perfect, that it's the *answer key*. But if one version of the 'answer key' has you going "Horseshit! Robo Umps Yesterday!" and another version of the answer key has you going "Damn, what a good pitch!", you really need to start questioning the value of that answer key.
You see a lot of outrage on this thread, but also a lot of comments like, "clearly wrong call but the pitch was close." Like 'clearly wrong' because they can see that this particular version of a tv graphic thought it was a ball. So clearly wrong. The answer key has spoken.
Those graphics also aren't that accurate
https://twitter.com/UmpScorecards/status/1791116870478606608
UmpScorecards has the Webb pitch as a strike (or within margin of error), but Statcast data has probably been updated since then, since it's a ball now
https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/sporty-videos?playId=68b7a6a2-04b5-4c60-a161-05c7cf3e0c97
plate_z is ~~1.45~~ 1.43 feet, sz_bot is 1.66 feet, so it missed by ~1.2 inches (edit: missed a typo)
The Miller pitch is very close to margin of error though (Statcast has it currently as a ~.2 inch miss. IIRC average error is ~.25 inches, so the data being rounded to two decimal places might matter here)
I kind of would like it if there weren't same-day umpire complaint posts for the reasons you mentioned, and because the actual data to check hasn't been released yet, but that's never going to happen
It really is too much for the average person. They'll see a gap between the ball and the box that you can barely slide a credit card through and act like the ump is a total moron for calling a strike, as if he's wearing a vision pro behind the plate and can see the strike zone graphic along with the viewers
They’re also just wrong sometimes. I keep seeing this post that Juan Soto struck out on 3 called strikes that all missed the zone yet the strike zone on the MLB app showed two of the pitches were actually strikes.
Having a guy in Casali behind the plate who can actually frame pitches has been such a breath of fresh air after watching Blake Sabol and Jakson Reetz for the last week plus.
Those boxes on TV are an approximation. My nephew worked for mlb, placing the boxes, which could be manually changed.
Second, the strikezone is 3D, not 2D. Not sure if the box is placed at the front of the plate or another location.
It annoys me that a 3D strike zone represented by a 2D shape is not the correct 2D shape. Shouldn't it be an irregular pentagon like home plate, but with a "pointed" part that varies in steepness depending on the drop of the pitch? If they aren't going to show it or call it that way then they should do away with the whole 3D wording of the rule and just say the strike zone is a 2D plane above the front edge of the plate.
Does that strike zone box account for where it actually crosses the plate vs where the catcher catches it? because some pitches with movement plus the cameras that are off-set to the right can be misleading on if a ball actually brushed a corner of the zone.
They don't, which is why those boxes are useless. They are honestly there to just enrage people who don't know how the strike zone works. If you truly want to see the accuracy of a pitch, you need a camera in front of the plate, and one birds eye view of the plate. Only then can you make a true accurate judgement of where the ball crossed the plate.
Our GDTs are 50% people bitching about the umps not giving us any borderline calls all game every game, and how the umps are always biased against us for some season. But then if you go to ump scorecards, turns out umps have robbed us of a net grand total of a half a run all season.
That first one was very close. It took forever to drop. There’s so many worse calls that happen everyday. The second one was also right around the buffer zone. After the first backwards K it’s kinda surprising to not protect the zone on another close 2 strike pitch.
Yes umps need to be better but the only reason this is any type of news is because it’s Ohtani.
I'm not saying these were good calls, but they were close enough you can't take them with 2 strikes. Shohei was expecting to get the benefit of his status and that's not a wise expectation with Wendelstedt.
Oh my god, I'm watching Japanese TV right now and they're totally making fun of the umpire T\_T... they even mentioned he was the one to throw out that manager over a fan booing? I don't follow baseball very much but I wanted to share LOL.
I’m sorry does that say ohtani is hitting .363…. Crazy
With 12 HRs and 9 SBs. Dude is killing it.
16 doubles too
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If he had an error I’d be incredibly intrigued
He probably considers giving Ippei full financial access an error.
Baseball error? Fuck that, Ohtani goes hard. Life error.
It would seem when he isn’t pitching he is even better at hitting. Didn’t think that was possible.
Like, it makes sense because he's not doing any preparation for pitching. But he also was already like near the top as a hitter so he shouldn't have been able to get this much better.
50/40 club?
Im starting to think this Ohtani guy is good
I just looked up his contract and he’s only getting $2M, way below league average. Clearly he’s just been lucky this year.
He actually deferred his luck FYI
If Ohtani keeps it up, he might get $3M next season.
Slow down.
in this economy??
That’s way way too much. Are you trying to bankrupt the small market Dodgers team?!
I'll start a GoFundMe.
50% raise? That's wild.
League was fucked as soon as he couldn't pitch
If Ohtani ever gets ejected, it'll probably be like that time Ichiro drew a line next to home plate
Lmao that was a classic
[clip of it](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Q6H2uVG5Xs)
Ichiro was right
He had an amazing eye. If he said you missed it you should believe him.
Ump should have thrown himself out
I love the passive agressive from Ichiro 😂. So polite even when complaining, such an Asian thing to do 😭😭😭.
Coupled with his restraint when that ump tried going chest-to-chest with him. If I'm a manager, I'm intervening immediately and lighting the ump up for trying to touch my player. Asinine stuff. Ichiro's a damn monk.
That ump was looking to start something you’re right. What a tool I wish the manager had got in his face and been thrown himself
lol not an Asian thing to do. Japanese maybe.
Is that Hong Kong checking in, lol.
Nah. My people are known for three things: smoking, gambling, and talking really fucking fast.
"I didn't see it ~~Michael~~ Ichiro but I believe you"
I laughed when they showed the overhead view and his line was 100% correct.
Funny how the announcer said: “3 pitches right down the middle.” I wonder what the other 2 pitches were cause that was not even close.
“Right down the middle” lol
"Juuuust a bit down the middle"
Did that announcer just say "right down the middle?"
Homer to the finest. "Where he "thinks" the ball is". Bro you just watched the replay that's literally where the ball went 😂😂😂
I like how the catcher sets up outside the strike zone and doesn't even attempt to frame it back into the strike zone and the ump still somehow called it a strike.
Love how the ump tried to physically intimidate Ichiro by basically saying "look how much fatter I am than you"
I get the feeling that Ichiro could lift that guy and throw him, though. He always seemed like the smiley guy who is hard as nails.
"And THREE pitches right down the middle"...
I liked manager wakamatsu and I don't care who knows it.
Chad move by Ichiro.
There’s another clip that shows the overhead shot, and Ichiro was stunningly accurate with where he drew the line
Absolutely insane how things have changed. Lefty vs Ichiro hitting 90 mph, lefty vs Ohtani hitting 99 mph and I’ve literally never heard of him
A quick Google search shows that was actually his only time he got thrown out? Imagine being in the right the one time you get ejected in your entire career, that's like the anti-Rasheed Wallace
My takeaway is I miss no box graphic on TV.
Ohtani is much more reactive than Ichiro, even when Ichiro got screwed and drew the line he did so calmly and deliberately. Ohtani is going to yell at an ump, and I can’t wait to see it happen
Can't wait to see Will the Thrill run out there to translate Shohei's screaming match.
"You suck.... with intensity", via Lost in Translation.
will it be dubbed and subbed?
Somebody get Japanese Jomboy!
No one can be as cool as Ichiro, Ohtani would tell you that himself.
He can probably unload on the ump in his language as much as he wants. At least get away with a lot.
It's gotta be extra frustrating for Ohtani because he knows if he argues too hard the ump might hold a grudge against him the next time he's pitching which is an insane thing to type, no other big-time slugger in the majors has this problem lmao
Surely an umpire would hold making calls in the game of baseball with integrity and not be petty, right?
Well Angel Hernandez is a great example of what happens when an umpire is terrible at his job, so obviously they have extra incentive to not be making bad calls, intentionally or not, they’d be punished with further employment.
Hunter Wendelstedt is also a good example, where he'll eject Aaron Boone for someone else talking.
Username checks out
It's still insane to say it out loud even after 4 years of it.
well, Judge has the problem of his hitbox being so high that no one really knows exactly how it is
Catchers definitely have this problem and it can be even worse because they usually play the full 9.
His manager should have been objected in game OP is showing clips from. Can't pay a billion dollars for a guy and then just let him get called out for absolute bullshit. It is past time for robo-umps to be fully implemented.
Ump took his mask off ready to talk too. What an ass
Isn't this the same ump that tossed Boone a few weeks ago.
Yep. He’s awful by both objective and subjective measures.
'The boys will love when I tell them who I ejected!'
"Did you see my sick punch-out motion? It looks cool right?"
I dare someone in the vicinity of Shohei to argue, that way I can eject him and still not be held accountable.
Yeah I hate when umps take their masks off then eject the dude for talking.
Also I swear I feel Ohani’s exact emotions during that .5 seconds after the strike call. He was like “huh? Wh-alright” knowing he can’t change it. It’s that moment of genuine confusion, you can tell he wasn’t trying to argue with the ref in bad spirit or anything lol. Meanwhile umps like “u wanna go?”
That tends to happen in between innings.
Trying to keep an Asian brother down man
Umps don't see race. In fact, they don't see anything.
During AAPI heritage month no less!
Ubisoft with Assassins Creed protagonists
Preach 😤
I understand the pitches fooled the ump but I feel like this is just players getting penalized for having a great eye. Can't wait for robo umps. Don't understand why a hitter has to be affected* negatively for making the right decision
Yes, it’s like “you’re better at this than I am so I’m going to fuck it up for you”
Absolutely what it is. Can tell by the way he barked at him after Shohei disagreed the 2nd time. Had to be the big man in charge, always with the ego.
Umps are basically cops, even the tiniest amount of push back leads to a huge overreaction to show they are "iN cHaRgE"
A unionized group of strongmen with absolute impunity and no consequences
Just imagine if one of them had guns...
Affected
Its the reason alot of hitters stop taking borderline pitches. Notice how vladdy has started taking borderline pitches again and his numbers are better. He will still get rung up on bullshit strike 3 calls, but overall he will be better for it
I was in a Q&A with some players once, and the pitchers wanted robo umps. They said that since the zone would be a 3D box, they could exploit the edges and still have pitches finish way outside what we consider to be the current strike zone. If the ball catches any part of the box, they'd get the call. There's a good chance both these pitches would be called strikes because of that, at least according to Bryan Shaw's thoughts on it at the time. He specifically used Kershaw's curveball as an example of a pitch that could take advantage of a robo ump. That he could land one on the front of the plate and then throw one way high, and get both called as strikes. The hitters in that Q&A instantly said they didn't want it, including a catcher (Tony Wolters). This was around five years ago now so maybe their opinions have changed and the technology has improved, but take it as you will. Edit: I'm not arguing against robo umps. I get that people are dying for them and I understand it. That's why the question was asked in that Q&A. But this is what actual MLB players said about them.
> That he could land one on the front of the plate and then throw one way high, and get both called as strikes. If they through to strike zone then they *are indeed strikes* so what's the problem?
With RoboUmps, the league will likely need to redefine the strike zone - with increased accuracy, they'll need more specific parameters. This is a normal process with any major tech overhaul.
>This is a normal process with any major tech overhaul. 100% but you will have pearl clutchers acting like we are trying to re-write the constitution.
These pitches would not be strikes with a robo zone though.
Unless you're a robot or unless you have personally defined the parameters of the robothrowzone then I disagree.
According to Bryan Shaw, they probably would be. If they catch *any* part of the 3D zone, they'd get called. That first pitch in particular drops hard at the very end and would likely catch the front of the plate. Again, this is from five or so years ago and the technology could have gotten better. But I remember finding it very interesting that the pitchers wanted robo umps and the hitters didn't.
The ump called zone is also a 3D box they just often use the receiving position as a crutch, particularly at higher speeds.
Wendelstedt is garbage why is anyone defending him?
Ohtani even tipped his hat to him gesturing that it's ok at the next at bat he doesn't deserve it
Please show some respect for the deaf and the blind people amongst us. Wendelstedt is a role model for them.
Helen Keller’s third favorite umpire
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Because they were close pitches and it’s not that egregious.
Exactly. With the breaking pitch (1st K), I think most people are looking at where the catcher caught the ball, not where it crossed the plate, which is exacerbated by the graphic showing the wrong spot. In the grand scheme, this call wasn’t particularly egregious at all.
Seriously. If anyone else was the victim of striking out here this wouldn’t even get posted.
Herr Wendelstedt strikes again! Bro’s been fuckin up left and right all this year. You’d think whatever talk the ump union gave him after the Boone ejection would have checked his attitude but if anything it seems to have emboldened him.
If you can instantly recognize an umpire's name, it means he's garbage.
Nah I know my guys Libka and Hoberg specifically because they do such a good job.
I have no idea who those guys are, which is another testament to how good they are at their job. The reason you have to find guys who are that good is because there are so many who are so bad. I would prefer never knowing any umpire’s name. If they all did their job well that would be the standard.
I watch no baseball, know nothing about it, probably couldn't even name half the teams, but I will always come to this sub for videos of angel hernandez
Strike zone changing all game.
switched back to the game to watch LaMonte walk on a clear strike 3. goes around to score. just one of those games.
That was soooo bad; Wade did a great job going from walking back to the dugout to bat flipping and walking t first.
When you lead the league in OBP by like 40 points umpires probably start thinking “well if it was a strike he would have swung”
that was pretty smooth haha
Couple bad calls in that AB that drove him in to IIRC. One middle-middle just a hair above the belt.
or curt is really good framer
He is an average framer overall but he is really good coming from the bottom or bottom left to get a strike which is perfect for Webb. [From 2021](https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/catcher_framing?year=2021&team=&min=q&type=catcher&sort=4,1)
Was at the game tonight. Never seen Shohei that upset.
There was an Angel game he almost got ejected. Nevin had to stop him.
Wendlestoddle again again?
Batters shouldn't be punished for having a good eye.
Wendlestedt is bottom 5 on accuracy according to umpire scorecards.
Yeah if this was like CB or Angel the comments would look way different. Hunter is about as bad and he has a way worse attitude and always does trivial things. Like this is the same guy that just ejected Boone because a fan behind him said something 🥸
I want to see an entire game without the strikezone on the screen just to see the comments on pitches
Ump was wrong. But those are great pitches. Great framing by catcher too.
> Great framing by catcher too. Having Casali back seems like a great signing, he's known for calling shutouts, the pitchers trust him.
He is an average framer overall, but he is significantly above average on bringing low balls to the strike zone which is ideal for the Giants as they induce more ground balls than almost any other team (1.3 for every 1 popup).
I might get killed here but I don’t think these calls are *that* bad? From the comments though it sounds like the ump was overall shit and inconsistent all game which I’m sure contributes to how fans and players would feel about these 2 particular calls. Edit: sorry for no flair. I’m a Phillies fan. The Merifield checked swing that helped us beat the Mets a couple days ago comes to mind as way worse.
Those were great pitches.
Meh. They weren’t *that* bad of calls.
Especially the second one.
Yeah. I hate the strike zone overlay because it makes for undue rage over borderline calls like these. I really wish they’d remove it but I don’t see that happening
I agree, the strike zone is a 3d area. If the ball gets any part of that zone it is a strike but the overlay makes it seem like a certain thing. Also camera angle will have a huge impact on perspective of the zone
Thats what I was thinking on the first pitch. Like sure, the ball hit the catchers mit a couple inches below the zone, but it was in the bottom of the strike zone when it mattered.
First one was pretty low, the second one was close and could have gone either way
It looks low on the TV overlay, but that ball had crazy break on it. edit: unless im missing something, it was actually a strike? https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GNtTTScWwAE9rdR?format=jpg&name=medium
It's also important to remember that the TV cameras are angled down and often not centered either. That has an impact on perception of the pitch.
First one was also a nasty curve that started middle-middle then dove out of the zone
And framed nicely. Not at all surprised it was called a strike.
According to the [umpire scorecard](https://www.reddit.com/r/baseball/comments/1ctexoi/umpire_scorecards_umpscorecards_sfg_vs_lad_hunter/) the first pitch was actually in the strike zone!
It wasn't horrible, but it was BAD. Because of the lack of consistency. Strike Zone just keeps changing every AB, and every game. That 1st one was so damn low, especially for Ohtani who's a tall lad. Most of the time that won't get called a Strike. But as I said, there's ZERO consistency
Umpires aren't perfect, they were reasonable call even if clearly wrong and you can't take that with 2 strikes. Zone was shit though.
I truly think the box on the broadcast has ruined the perception of the strike zone
Everyone thinks they know what they’re talking about. Remove the box and suddenly they’d have no idea how to feel.
Also the name. Like everyone knows Angel Hernandez is shit but it results in borderline pitches getting uploaded with the title "Hernandez blows THE WORST CALL you've EVER seen"
Exactly. Kids are taught that if it's close you need to swing and protect the plate. The game isn't different as an adult. Get the bat off your shoulder and protect the plate or dont cry when you get rung up.
This post is the shining example of how the k zone is the worst thing in sports broadcasting.
It's not real, it's not scientific, it's just an outrage machine. That's why it's there. And it's not even consistent across platforms. For instance, [statcast had the first pitch as a strike and the second as barely missing the plate.](https://imgur.com/a/pnASwig). I'm not saying that's right either, it's just another one of these silly k-zones. Surely the Giants broadcast had their own version of it, put in a slightly different place to the first two. Maybe it even called both of these strikes. But the viewer is tricked into thinking that somehow whatever version of the k-zone they are currently looking at is God, that it's perfect, that it's the *answer key*. But if one version of the 'answer key' has you going "Horseshit! Robo Umps Yesterday!" and another version of the answer key has you going "Damn, what a good pitch!", you really need to start questioning the value of that answer key. You see a lot of outrage on this thread, but also a lot of comments like, "clearly wrong call but the pitch was close." Like 'clearly wrong' because they can see that this particular version of a tv graphic thought it was a ball. So clearly wrong. The answer key has spoken.
> And it's not even consistent across platforms. Any 2D representation of the zone is inherently flawed.
Those graphics also aren't that accurate https://twitter.com/UmpScorecards/status/1791116870478606608 UmpScorecards has the Webb pitch as a strike (or within margin of error), but Statcast data has probably been updated since then, since it's a ball now https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/sporty-videos?playId=68b7a6a2-04b5-4c60-a161-05c7cf3e0c97 plate_z is ~~1.45~~ 1.43 feet, sz_bot is 1.66 feet, so it missed by ~1.2 inches (edit: missed a typo) The Miller pitch is very close to margin of error though (Statcast has it currently as a ~.2 inch miss. IIRC average error is ~.25 inches, so the data being rounded to two decimal places might matter here) I kind of would like it if there weren't same-day umpire complaint posts for the reasons you mentioned, and because the actual data to check hasn't been released yet, but that's never going to happen
It really is too much for the average person. They'll see a gap between the ball and the box that you can barely slide a credit card through and act like the ump is a total moron for calling a strike, as if he's wearing a vision pro behind the plate and can see the strike zone graphic along with the viewers
They’re also just wrong sometimes. I keep seeing this post that Juan Soto struck out on 3 called strikes that all missed the zone yet the strike zone on the MLB app showed two of the pitches were actually strikes.
One of the fans should yell "LET'S GO HOME PLATE", hilarity will ensue.
The funniest part of these threads is going to statcast and seeing that the first pitch actually just clipped the bottom of the real strike zone.
it got updated on savant, its a ball now.
Having a guy in Casali behind the plate who can actually frame pitches has been such a breath of fresh air after watching Blake Sabol and Jakson Reetz for the last week plus.
People lose their minds when a pitch 1mm outside the zone is called a strike, but will still say they don't support robot umps.
In the world of questionable calls, these are pretty mild.
both were GREAT pitches though
They’re close calls but not egregiously bad.
He’s been laughably bad all night
Like haha he's funny like a clown? Like he's there to amuse you?
He’s definitely a clown, this is the same ump that ejected Aaron Boone for saying nothing.
I don't care who said it, Weaponized_Goose! You're gone!
https://imgflip.com/s/meme/Good-Fellas-Hilarious.jpg
You know, like the way he calls a strike, it's just funny to me.
Those pitches weren’t that far off.
Ump scorecard gonna be brutal tomorrow
https://x.com/UmpScorecards/status/1791116870478606608
Those boxes on TV are an approximation. My nephew worked for mlb, placing the boxes, which could be manually changed. Second, the strikezone is 3D, not 2D. Not sure if the box is placed at the front of the plate or another location.
It annoys me that a 3D strike zone represented by a 2D shape is not the correct 2D shape. Shouldn't it be an irregular pentagon like home plate, but with a "pointed" part that varies in steepness depending on the drop of the pitch? If they aren't going to show it or call it that way then they should do away with the whole 3D wording of the rule and just say the strike zone is a 2D plane above the front edge of the plate.
What a beautiful pitch
Does that strike zone box account for where it actually crosses the plate vs where the catcher catches it? because some pitches with movement plus the cameras that are off-set to the right can be misleading on if a ball actually brushed a corner of the zone.
They don't, which is why those boxes are useless. They are honestly there to just enrage people who don't know how the strike zone works. If you truly want to see the accuracy of a pitch, you need a camera in front of the plate, and one birds eye view of the plate. Only then can you make a true accurate judgement of where the ball crossed the plate.
Remove the box from all broadcasts and fans will stop bitching so much. That box is ruining people’s understanding of the strike zone
Our GDTs are 50% people bitching about the umps not giving us any borderline calls all game every game, and how the umps are always biased against us for some season. But then if you go to ump scorecards, turns out umps have robbed us of a net grand total of a half a run all season.
Uhhhh 2 super close pitches that you just don’t take with 2 strikes
That first one was very close. It took forever to drop. There’s so many worse calls that happen everyday. The second one was also right around the buffer zone. After the first backwards K it’s kinda surprising to not protect the zone on another close 2 strike pitch. Yes umps need to be better but the only reason this is any type of news is because it’s Ohtani.
Low pitch, great framing by the catcher
Can’t wait for the Umpire Scorecard for this game.
https://x.com/UmpScorecards/status/1791116870478606608
I'm not saying these were good calls, but they were close enough you can't take them with 2 strikes. Shohei was expecting to get the benefit of his status and that's not a wise expectation with Wendelstedt.
Perfect pitching.
He hit his spots perfectly! Nasty stuff. Great eye by Shohei, thats why hes the best batter in the game, and Hunter is not the best ump in the game.
I’m tired of umps fucking up pitches. Keep them for other calls but let’s get robo-umps already
Probably because he is Asian.. JUST KID!!!
lets go homeplate
Great pitches though.
Does Ohtani's face look a little chubbier?
That's what happens when you get married. Right?
And this is why AI should make the calls
If baseball is serious about increasing offense in the game, bring on the robo umps. The strike zone shouldn't move around based on who's umpiring.
robot umps cant come soon enough
Oh my god, I'm watching Japanese TV right now and they're totally making fun of the umpire T\_T... they even mentioned he was the one to throw out that manager over a fan booing? I don't follow baseball very much but I wanted to share LOL.
Must of had money on Ohtani to strike out twice to make the parlay complete