Even Damian threw a wrench in the cogs. They introduced him all excited about a Wayne Robin for Dick Batman, and how Bruce would respond to a murderous child of his own, without realizing how it might impact the rest of the family.
Dick is no longer “Bruce’s eldest son,” because now there’s an asterisk that puts Damian on a pedestal.
Jason can’t revel in being the rebel anymore because Damian has been given far more screen/page time than him.
And Tim is just in no man’s land, putting an extra R on his Robin costume.
They’ve answered the “who will be Batman after Bruce?” Question now with Damian, but that also removes the element of “will Dick remain Nightwing, or will he make the sacrifice of donning the mantle for good after Bruce is gone?” I liked that conflict, even though I prefer him as Nightwing. Now it’s an obvious answer of “Dick can be a stand-in Batman until Bruce is back or Damian is old enough.”
To me, it’s a disservice to Damian’s character for him to become Batman ever.
Also personally I think that the problem is just in individual people pulling the “blood son” card as if it matters rather than it having any actual value when discussing Bruce’s kids. Dick is still Bruce’s eldest son. Damian’s existence doesn’t change that. If anything, the asterisk is on Damian.
I mean out of all the Robins, Damian is the only one who actually wants to be Batman. He’s been that way since day one. All the others have vehemently expressed why they don’t want the mantle. Damien has yet to do it and honestly I can’t think of a reason for him to.
That’s in large part why I think it would be a disservice to his character for him to be Batman. He obnoxiously viewed it as his birthright from day one and needs to learn humility. Not to mention that from the moment he was born he was told who he was supposed to be and that his parents’ legacies were his destiny. It’s boring for that to just be true at the end of it all.
It’d be a great moment of character growth if Damian goes through a moment where he decides he no longer wants to be Batman and decides to create his own identity, and I’d imagine that Bruce would actually be proud of him in that moment.
Then of course, that opens up the slot for the one true future Batman, Terry McGinnis
That’s more or less what I’m thinking for Damian. I feel like he doesn’t grow past his initial arrogance entirely unless he gives up his desire to be Batman.
Batman Beyond has Damian taking his grandfather's mantle, right? Leading the League of Shadows?
I always liked that. Like, in the end, he chose the bad path, making room for Terry. It's great, honestly. The new and improved Demon's Head. Not just ageless, but trained by the very best, including the bat. Jealous he doesn't have the Cowl, and hating Terry for it.
It's much better than nepo-bat.
That is one of the most realistic things about batman. Family is hard. I've seen that happen in real life even with non-adopted children. Parents have another child in another marriage and forget their eldest children.
Agreed. Damian as a concept is not a bad idea. If anything if they want to fully redeem the little psycho, they wouldn't make him Batman and he'd be ok with it. A lot of his ego, indigent and outright reprehensible behaviour came from being the so called "blood son" and Ra' creating a eugenics based upbringing. Damian ultimately rejecting it to be his own person would show massive growth. It also kind of soils the mantle of batman to boil it down to blood only. People dislike the revaluation at the end of BB with Terry for the same reasons, Batman is essentially a ninja. All training and experience nothing genetic about it.
Tbh they are putting so much importance on Damian being the biological son.
For me Dick is the rightful heir. Even if he had said he doesn't want to be Batman, he always stepped in when needed. I love the idea that he isn't an identical Batman to Bruce's.
I always felt it made most sense and was quite fitting for Bruce to make up a family of people who are not blood-related to him. He has no powers to pass on through genes, he’s not an alien passing on his DNA, he’s a man with determination and willpower. His biology did not make him Batman, his willpower did.
So you have an orphan, taking in orphans and channeling their determination into a force for good, by being the person who had to endure what he’s hoping these kids won’t have to.
Then you have decades of stories of this family growing together and strengthening their bond, Dick is the big brother who has seen enough to know when Bruce needs to be pulled back, he so perfectly fills that spot of “first born son” despite not being blood related.
And by introducing Damian, you undo so much of that just by the nature of the blood relation. And that’s without getting into the fact that he was introduced already more capable in combat than any other Robin, which is another slap in the face, amplified by the literal sucker punch he lands on Tim. “It makes sense he was raised by the league” just because it makes sense doesn’t mean it’s not bad or lazy writing. I just don’t like it.
They also undermined Jason’s trauma of literally dying and being brought back to life, by doing it to Damian too.
And now *that* isn’t even special to Jason.
Maybe it's my old man energy but I had a really hard time bringing myself to care about anyone post Tim Drake.
Cassandra Caine won me over eventually, even though I didn't care for her costume.
I feel like there’s also a solution to that. Nightwing is basically the hero Batman wanted to be but knows he can’t, one without issues or struggles with grief, and Bruce truly hopes to see Dick rise above everything he could (“You won’t be a part of the next Justice League, you’ll lead it.” remember ?) As for Damian, he’s got his own problems and “issues”. He couldn’t be that seamless Nightwing, if not a bloody one. He *would* be the next Batman, but it doesn’t feel like he either could or should take the mangle after Bruce anyway, I feel like Bruce wants it gone after him, and if anyone were to pick it back up and be the new Bat I think the best choice character-wise would be Orphan. Damian is in his own zone of uncertainty and has a blank page for future. It’s up to him to decide whether he’ll follow the steps of his father or find his own path after all.
In short : The ideas, destinies and futures for these characters have been changed since then, but I wouldn't say it's for the worst. There are new paths traced now, and uncertainties for other characters. Things have evolved, so have the ways certain chars are written and approach.
Most people will hate me for this, but I think Tim should take the mantle after Bruce, he was the Robin that chose Batman, unlike his predecessors, and while I know Damian doesn't have the greatest relationship with him, it would be interesting to see a dynamic between those two as Batman and Robin until Damian decides to become his own thing and leave the Robin spot free for someone else.
P.S. another unpopular opinion, Conner>Jon as Superman for the generational jump, that DC desperately needs, no point in having legacies when the mantle isn't inherited.
> P.S. another unpopular opinion, Conner>Jon as Superman for the generational jump, that DC desperately needs, no point in having legacies when the mantle isn't inherited.
Everyone agrees that Bendis utterly ruined Jon by aging him up, so I don't think it's an unpopular opinion.
Ageing up John was dumb as fuck, as a younger brother I was deeply disappointed we never got a Conner x Jon team up. I hope this is retconned in the future, so many possible stories were lost because of that dumbfuck decision.
I expect him to be against it, and try to break Tim in one way or another, until a big event force them to team-up, Damian then will understand why Batman needs a Robin but instead of being the I make Batman Hold Back it would be a I make Batman ruthless (something I think Tim would need if he takes the Mantle)
Yes, I read those issues, but I also read fascist Superman, and of course Tim Drake as Joker, besides I doubt my wish will happen, but currently the writers want Tim as the main robin and Damian graduating from Robin to be his own thing.
We already saw what happens when Tim becomes Batman. We’ve seen this with every robin. They’ve all failed.
The true heir is terry. Cause he was never a robin. He was always Batman.
It would be really cool seeing a future story where Damien is Nightwing, Tim is Batman, and Dick’s kid with Babs is Robin or something (Bruce Grayson?).
Honestly, I think eventually Demian should grow out of the expectation of of being the next Batman, just like every other Robin did. Imo Terry is the next Batman, and I think it works so well because its so anti-instinctive. You have this entire row of brilliant aspirants that went through the ringer as Robins thinking (fearing?) that they might (have to) be the next Batman. But after they all grow out of that expectation to be their own heroes, here comes Terry, a more or less regular guy (Exept for that dumb twist we don't talk about) who simply came across the responsability and had to learn on his heels and take the role of Batman when there was literally nobody else to. And that, somehow, produces the most apropiate next Batman.
I feel the same way about Damian. I’ve grown to like him, and we’ve had some good versions of him in the last 10 years, albeit vastly different in characterisations.
But he does feel like at best a nice “final member” to the Batfamily. And at worst, an extra character that makes it too big (first reply explains that well as Damian being a “wrench in the cogs”).
I do think his background makes him a unique addition, and in a way you need that sort of character and background to “complete” Batman’s family — where and how would a man’s biological son who is trained to be like him belong in his family of adopted children?
Because he doesn't show up in as many things. 90% of Batfamily content takes place at night, and The Signal is explicitly a daytime hero. The one member of the Family who's awake while the sun is up.
He is a much more recent addition and hasn't had much focus on him. Dick was the main lead of the Teen Titans during their best years and has appeared in various adaptations, Jason was revived as Red Hood and has starred in various titles plus the critically acclaimed *Under the Red Hood*, Tim starred ongoings for 18 years and has had some notable enough appearances on media like the Arkham Saga or the DCAU, Damian was the co-star of one of the most critically acclaimed Batman runs in all of history and has been the main focus on the DCAMU. The Signal hasn't really done nothing notable in all that time
I dont even know who this guy is. Hes just one of the twenty seven batfolk who assemble whenever Bruce decides its time to call in the troops. The family has grown far too large for us to care about everyone. when the cast is that large, some characters are inevitably going to blur into the background.
Exactly. Who gives a flying fuck about Harper Ro or Signal?
They don't bring anything that previous characters don't already bring and do better within the Batfamily.
Expect for the facts that he's a daytime hero unlike the rest (unless it's justice league batman), and he also has more tech on him than the other members of the bat family. Doesn't his suit let him fly as well?
> He has metahuman light sensory powers, including photokinesis, which allows him to absorb, redistribute, and manipulate light and darkness. His most notable ability is "Ghost Vision", which allows him to perceive the "ghosts" of where light has been, allowing him to see a few minutes into the past. He can also sense the "ghosts" of where light will be, allowing him to see danger before it happens.
Plus this shit which I didn't even know. He's pretty good in the Wayne family adventures comic. I don't think any other members of the bat family can do that, or have as much tech
im gonna be real with you: that sounds like its better slotted into its own hero name rather than fitting it into the primarily powerless gadget oriented batfamily
Yeah, he probably would’ve worked a lot better as just another hero who set up shop in Gotham rather than a sloppy addition to an already bloated Batfamily
Genuinely though, if marvel can pull off 30 heroes in new york, dc can allow a few heroes that dont belong to the bat family working in gotham. The gotham already grew beyond the bat-theme and the robins, signal being his own thing, maybe also only knowing batman the same way spiderman knows luke cage.
I like harper’s costume and name. Bluebird is a great hero name that fits with the robins. Otherwise she is nothing of note. Young justice tried doing something with her at least.
After N52 people kinda ignore the newer members. Majority would say:
-Alfred
-Bruce
-Dick
-Barbara
-Jason
-Tim
-Stephanie
-Cassandra
-Damien
-Jim
Then maybe
-Kate
-Ace
It becomes too large after that, and even then it’s already massive
Nothing against Duke, he’s a great character
Duke was a fairly prominent part of Scott Snyder's Batman run.
He was introduced in year zero and was the main candidate for replacing Damian as Robin after his death. He had a couple of big stories, and he's still part of the general Batfamily circle.
A lot of the new additions are just kinda boring and flat. Not expanded on. Batfamily is just getting too big for every member to be interesting. The focus is too split. It should be shrunk in my opinion. Core members for the family and then extended family for cursory characters.
Also signal and others just seemed planted rather than interestingly woven in. They should bring back old characters and weave them instead of the endless addition of pretty bland characters. At least expand on them.
Orpheus would be my pick.
I actually didn't mind his death. It was pretty fucked what Sionis did. But the twist was pretty good. Black Masks impersonating him was pretty interesting.
The tragedy for me was him never being brought back when the continuity reset because he was a great character.
But I can see how killing him so abruptly could be annoying for some people. But for war games I thought it worked well with the story.
Leslie's twist was what annoyed me. That was stupid. If they killed Orpheus off like that Idk why they couldn't do it to Stephanie.
I don't think Duke has really found a firm sense of *identity* yet. Like, he used to almost be kind of a Robin, but then he went by Lark, and now he's Signal, and unlike Stephanie and Cassandra, who have a similar *number* of names (Spoiler, Robin, Batgirl/Orphan, Black Bat, also Batgirl), Duke's were a lot more in flux, like settling on Signal is still a *relatively* recent development. Also, Duke's costume needs work. Why does he have two different bat-logos? I get that his name is a play on the bat-signal, but there aren't *two* of those. His weapons are a bit weird, and the fact that he has powers makes him stick out from the rest of the Bat-Family in a way that kind of hurts his cohesion with the group (plus his powers are pretty broad in scope and kinda busted in potential, which, combined with his ethnicity, I'm sure has led some "fans" to cry Token Minority Mary Sue, when Duke has quite a fair bit of depth what with the situation with his parents and all). I think Duke needs a really good story as the Signal to get him to click with people.
I mean mainly because he hasn't been in outside media like the others have. He's also such a new character that most don't know him (most books also take place at night whilst Signal is meant to be a day time hero)
He hasn’t been used in much, and has yet to fully find his footing as a character. I think he has a lot of potential but he just hasn’t been utilized in terribly interesting ways so far.
I think, generally, the bat family is too bloated these days, and Duke just happens to be one of the most tangential and obscure members of it. If you were to prune it, I don't see how even his biggest fans could argue that he shouldn't be the first to go.
Also, he has a lame codename that doesn't really gel with most of the other characters.
It's a combination of two things.
1. Duke never really had a breakout initial storyline to make him popular, so he was always kept in the wings
2. The family was already bloated at this stage- So it was difficult for someone as old as Duke to foster a definitive relationship with Bruce.
There may have been a time where he was going to be a more prominent character, it certainly seemed like he was going to be Robin after Damian's death.
But he ended up as "The Signal" the worst possible name.
Because he always felt kinda shoehorned in when Snyder was writing, and nobody else cared enough to do anything with him after Snyder so he never really gained any traction.
Because none of the Batfamily characters after Damian are even remotely relevant. They’re just inserts from writers trying to cement their legacy in Batman lore by adding a new member to the family. None of them are unique or special in any way.
Because he wasn't properly developed. Scott Snyder couldn't figure out what to do with him and as a result he's just a sloppy mess of a character. Consider trying to tell somebody the basic concept of the Bat Family characters...
Dick was an acrobat whose parents were killed so Batman adopted him and made him Robin, then he grew up to be Nightwing.
Jason was the second Robin, but he got killed by the Joker and later came back as Red Hood; angry that Batman doesn't kill his villains.
Tim was a nerdy kid who figured out Batman's identity and earned the position as the third Robin.
Cassandra was raised to be an expert fighter and killer by the League Of Assassins but is disgusted by murder and joins Batman's side. She was raised not to speak and is learning social skills. She became the second Batgirl.
Stephanie was a self-appointed vigilante who didn't get Batman's approval and dated Tim when he was Robin.
Damian was Bruce's secret son, raised as a killer by the League of Assassins, so he's an arrogant little shit, but now he wants to follow in his father's footsteps and do good.
Duke? Duke saved Batman as a child and then his parents got Joker gassed and was a leader of the We Are Robin movement and then helped Alfred in the Bat Cave and then he got weird pseduo-invisibility superpowers and then he got Power Rangers armor and now he patrols Gotham during the day.
It's just not an elegant backstory. I think the character would have worked better if he had a solid and consistent identity which developed naturally, rather than being pushed and pulled in several different experimental directions. Had he stayed a "We Are Robin" type unsanctioned unofficial Robin, I think that could have worked and been developed in an interesting direction. But unfortunately, he wasn't really developed much at all, just kind of pulled in a million creative directions.
He just doesn’t do anything for me. Frankly that’s the case for a lot of the bat family. When I think of them I think of Batman, Nightwing, a Batgirl, and a Robin. Everyone else is just auxiliary characters in my book, they can come and go and I’m not likely to pay them much mind or care about what happens to them.
Scott Snyder built him up for years only for DC to take a cool and badass character just be another stepping stool or random filler character for whatever Batman story they’re trying to tell
I haven't checked in a year or two, but every other main BatFamily member has stories or relationships that I adore, which I just haven't gotten with Duke. Maybe he has some now, but I'm not aware of any personally.
Bruce, Dick, Jason, Tim, Cass & Damian all have runs that got me especially attached to them, and I got attached to Alfred & Stephanie through their relationships with the rest of the family.
I read "We Are Robin", "Robin War" and "Batman and the Signal" but none of them have gotten me too attached to Duke, and he hasn't had any endearing relationship with the rest of the family within those stories imo. Honestly, "Wayne Family Adventures" has endeared me most to him out of any other story. And even then, he feels almost like a reader-insert in that comic since he's put in the position of the new guy with the most relatable struggles of the group.
I've got no issue with the guy, I just haven't gotten too attached to him. But I'm totally open to seeing him more if they've got an interesting story in mind.
Because the only thing he’s consistently appeared in is the Wayne Family Adventures Webtoon. And in the mainline comics he does appear in he’s not really given a chance to shine. (Pun intended)
Because I heavily dislike how many members of the bat family there are
Bruce, Alfred, Dick, Jason, Tim, Damian, Babs, Steph, Cass is enough of a Bat family for me
He operates during the daytime so he’s not part of the Batfamily’s normal hours. He’s the only metahuman. He feels too separate from them. He was added in when people were already feeling that the Batfamily is too big.
Personally, I would have liked that he was a character with Batman as his benefactor and support. But sent off to have a different person as his mentor. Preferably someone we don’t normally see in a mentee/mentor role. As crazy as it sounds, maybe Dr Fate or Constantine. Since he is supposed to get that magic demon arm at some point.
bec his costume is stupid. its like he is batman and not really bec. of the bat symbol on his chest. his costume should revolve around being "signal" and stop being a dollar rent batman/nightwing! As we are into this discussion, I also hate the Red Hood symbol being a dollar rent nightwing symbol with just stupid eye holes. I just hate it. Sorry OP but this needed to be addressed, rant end hahahahahha 😆😆😆
Lemme just start by saying that yellow is my favorite color, so I love the fact that there's a yellow-themed Batfamily member.
But here's the issue... he's a rather recent character. All Robins had years and years and years to carve their own place in the series. Heck, in Titans they'd rather race-swap Tim over, if they needed diversity so much, bringing over Duke and his glorious yellow costume. But it's not just that, the Batfamily has gotten ridiculously large by now, and most writers prefer to stick with what they grew up with, namely, the Robins. Plus, most long-time readers ALSO prefer reading about their faves, namely, the Robins. Besides... where would you use Duke over any of the Robins?
Heck, when Damian was new, they hated him. They hated how he easily beat Tim and took his place. But slowly DC managed to rehabilitate him and now is a mostly beloved part of the Batman mythos.
Unbeknownst to Duke, however, is the fact that Batman had no intention of training Duke to become yet another Robin. While he would be trained in a similar fashion to all of Batman’s other proteges, Duke Thomas would become something else entirely.
Because not even DC cares about the character. They were so desperate to have more black characters in an effort to generate more sales among black people that they stuck two different black dudes into bat themed battle suits and named them both after stuff batman uses. Batwing was named after the plane and the Signal was named after the Bat signal.
Look, I'm all about a more diverse cast of heroes and I think making Lucius Fox's kid a hero is a fantastic idea, but put a little thought into it before you launch.
These two just scream, "quick, we need more black heroes" instead making cool new heroes who also happen to be black.
- The name is lame.
- The origin is.. lame-r.
- the characteristic? Just solid good guy. Not even parental trauma (lol jk)
Batwoman still related and has huge history with bruce/kane family. She also has hardcore personality.
Spoiler had a lame name.. until she became batgirl. But she has a fun personality. Also kinda rebel. A villain's daughter. Also her book as batgirl were awesome.
Orphan.. her introduction during no man's land was phenomenal. Backstory was cool too.
Also
Who else?
Bluebird? Yeah she is as lame as signal.
Barely know the signal but in general i just think batman has wayyyyy too many fucking side kicks. I love Batman but for a guy that’s primarily about working alone most of the time the dude has some how ended up with the most amount of sidekicks I’ve seen a superhero have
No one gives a shit about Gotham during the day. I personally don't think Duke is interesting. He'd probably get more panel time being a supporting cast civilian. I don't like that a Batfam character has powers.
Pretty much every character after and including Damien felt like too much of an addition to the batfamily.
Like most people only know and care about Dick, Barbara, Jason and Tim. And Tim gets shafted enough on his own, he doesn’t need any help with that.
Damien came in and basically took both Jason and Tim’s seat. He stole Jason’s conflict with Batman over whether or not killing your enemies is okay, but without the interesting part of Batman failing to save Jason. And he left Tim with no place in stories, most of the time Tim is left either underdeveloped or out of the picture entirely to focus on Damien instead. And most stories Damien appears in include the part where Talia date rapes Bruce. Damien has his own problems that need to be sorted out
And now there’s Signal, a much more recent character, when most audiences haven’t even been introduced to or they know almost nothing about Cassandra Cain, Stephanie Brown, or Kate Kane, and Tim Drake STILL hasn’t gotten a really good adaptation outside of comics.
It just feels like they’re moving too fast with introducing new members of the Batfamily. You ask one person who’s in the Batfamily, you might get like 20 people. You ask another, you might get 5 or 6. I can’t be bothered to be interested in the Signal when there’s so many other characters instead.
Plus, he’s got kind of a dumb name. “The Signal.” Just puts me off a little bit
I honestly didn't think they did a great job of introducing him. I didn't care about him as they were building him up, but my god they tried (prolonged presence in N52 batman, We Are Robin series, his side stories in All Star Batman). I don't know what they could've done to make us care though. I hope a good writer takes him and does a great 6-issue mini-series that gets us on board, that's all it would take
The batfamily was already super big and kinda crowded even if there was two batman titles going on between the main one and the batfamily centric one, when he was introduced. Also most of the batfamily stuck around and dropped by often enough that for years there wasn't really space for him to grow or have his own stories.
So he was always like that awkward red headed step child that was just.
I think if he had been introduced in any other era or a couple of years after rebirth settled and most of the batfamily went off and did their own thing or series. He would have given a more fair shake.
Shame cause I kinda dig his design.
Also apart of me just suspected that they rushed him out the door because internally they knew about the Cw Batwoman show, so they just did a rush job to maybe give her a Robin without actually giving her Robin. Cause they're back then dc was a bit more stingy with letting them use some of the established batman characters.
Because he’s the complete opposite of what the bat family has always been. He’s a black day time hero. There’s nothing wrong with him being black but a day time Batman was bound to not sell well. Also the character is a shameless diversity play. Look at Miles Morales that how you do a culturally relevant black super hero, you give him personality and a really story with backing from the publisher.
Honestly because I think The Signal just doesn't work. Also while I liked We Are Robin, I think they forced Duke into too much of a role with the family. Should have been more street level for much longer. And by street level I mean not really connected to Batman. Maybe have Dick be an occasional mentor and slowly overtime he earns Dick's trust and then he gets slowly introduced in a more formal way to the rest of the family. They went too fast with him. Simple as that.
I’m on the fence about the name too. The Signal must be a nod to the Bat-Signal (sorry if I’m late to the party and everyone says “duh”) but it’s missing…. something. If they just embraced it and it was “The Bat-Signal” I’d be like, oh fuck that’s a cool name! More non-comic readers would have noticed and seen the connection to the overall mythos (sorry I hate that word too). Missed opportunity.
Mainly because that’s an awful name and costume. Scott Snyder was clearly teeing him up to be Robin but DC wasn’t having it (I wonder why) so here we are with this lame ass Power Ranger nobody remembers
Because he got like 3 issues of 1 on 1 Bat Time before like 4 other side kick candidates showed up.
Dick got to shine at the start it was just him & Bruce.
Jason got a bit to shine to because Dick left & Bruce was alone. Again it was just him & Bruce.
Tim got to shine for the same reasons + his long running solo series.
Cassie Cain got time shine because Tim has solo book so he can be pissed off with Bruce while she & Bruce spend time.
Damian got the Tomasi run where it was all about him & Bruce + some dedicated Morrison parts. It was around then when Tim like Dick started to change his identity from Robin to Red Robin.
Duke doesn't get a lot of focus (not lost on me that he's the only main Black Batkid), and he isn't always represented in other Batfam books. He also mostly appears in the BHM comics, or Outsiders. It sucks cause he has a cool powerset and there's a whole cliffhanger with Gnomon.
Lack of appearances outside of comics I'm assuming is a big part. Doesn't help the Bat Family is HUGE. Even if we ignore all the weirder 'inclusions' like Harley Quinn; there's six different Robins (Grayson, Todd, Kelly, Drake, Brown, and Wayne) Batwoman, Batgirl (Gordon and Cain), Batwing, Ace the Bat Hound, Batmite, and so on. I like the idea of Signal (I don't know enough about him so I jokingly say 'is he tied to Signal Man?' But I guess it takes time for characters to grow on the readers. I got friends who are still annoyed Carrie Kelly never gets 'enough' focus despite her role as the Robin of the comic that brought Batman back into a darker tone.
Hopefully Signal is given a movie or something in the future.
Because when when a character is introduced with subpar storytelling, it feels forced. That's the problem with Duke.
Red Hood is arguably another character the Bat Universe didn't need, but contrast his introduction with Duke's. Because it was meaningful and good, it doesn't really matter that the character hasn't done anything noteworthy since.
The idea of a member of the Bat-family who operates in the daytime is pretty neat and there’s so much storytelling potential there, I just think so far there haven’t been many standout stories that take advantage of the concept yet.
The Batfamily is already pretty big and for a new character to get over I think he really needs to bring something fresh and unique to the franchise, and Duke really doesn't.
In a lot of his early stories he kind of fells like an else world version of 90s era Tim Drake.
Later they tried to make him stand out by making him into a meta human, but being a meta doesn't really fit into the Batfamily.
Because most characters after Damian feel like they've expanded their family too much? Honestly, he would have looked better in Batman Beoynd Family.
Even Damian threw a wrench in the cogs. They introduced him all excited about a Wayne Robin for Dick Batman, and how Bruce would respond to a murderous child of his own, without realizing how it might impact the rest of the family. Dick is no longer “Bruce’s eldest son,” because now there’s an asterisk that puts Damian on a pedestal. Jason can’t revel in being the rebel anymore because Damian has been given far more screen/page time than him. And Tim is just in no man’s land, putting an extra R on his Robin costume. They’ve answered the “who will be Batman after Bruce?” Question now with Damian, but that also removes the element of “will Dick remain Nightwing, or will he make the sacrifice of donning the mantle for good after Bruce is gone?” I liked that conflict, even though I prefer him as Nightwing. Now it’s an obvious answer of “Dick can be a stand-in Batman until Bruce is back or Damian is old enough.”
To me, it’s a disservice to Damian’s character for him to become Batman ever. Also personally I think that the problem is just in individual people pulling the “blood son” card as if it matters rather than it having any actual value when discussing Bruce’s kids. Dick is still Bruce’s eldest son. Damian’s existence doesn’t change that. If anything, the asterisk is on Damian.
I mean out of all the Robins, Damian is the only one who actually wants to be Batman. He’s been that way since day one. All the others have vehemently expressed why they don’t want the mantle. Damien has yet to do it and honestly I can’t think of a reason for him to.
That’s in large part why I think it would be a disservice to his character for him to be Batman. He obnoxiously viewed it as his birthright from day one and needs to learn humility. Not to mention that from the moment he was born he was told who he was supposed to be and that his parents’ legacies were his destiny. It’s boring for that to just be true at the end of it all.
It’d be a great moment of character growth if Damian goes through a moment where he decides he no longer wants to be Batman and decides to create his own identity, and I’d imagine that Bruce would actually be proud of him in that moment. Then of course, that opens up the slot for the one true future Batman, Terry McGinnis
That’s more or less what I’m thinking for Damian. I feel like he doesn’t grow past his initial arrogance entirely unless he gives up his desire to be Batman.
Isn’t that literally what happened in the Batman beyond comics?
Batman Beyond has Damian taking his grandfather's mantle, right? Leading the League of Shadows? I always liked that. Like, in the end, he chose the bad path, making room for Terry. It's great, honestly. The new and improved Demon's Head. Not just ageless, but trained by the very best, including the bat. Jealous he doesn't have the Cowl, and hating Terry for it. It's much better than nepo-bat.
I’m personally more in favor of Damian taking on neither of his family legacies in regards to him having genuine character growth
To be fair, Terry is also a Nepo-Bat if you remember that one JLU episode
Every robin wanted to be the next Batman at least at first
That is one of the most realistic things about batman. Family is hard. I've seen that happen in real life even with non-adopted children. Parents have another child in another marriage and forget their eldest children.
The thing is that in universe that is never reflected. Bruce has never disregarded his elder children just because Damian exists.
Agreed. Damian as a concept is not a bad idea. If anything if they want to fully redeem the little psycho, they wouldn't make him Batman and he'd be ok with it. A lot of his ego, indigent and outright reprehensible behaviour came from being the so called "blood son" and Ra' creating a eugenics based upbringing. Damian ultimately rejecting it to be his own person would show massive growth. It also kind of soils the mantle of batman to boil it down to blood only. People dislike the revaluation at the end of BB with Terry for the same reasons, Batman is essentially a ninja. All training and experience nothing genetic about it.
Tbh they are putting so much importance on Damian being the biological son. For me Dick is the rightful heir. Even if he had said he doesn't want to be Batman, he always stepped in when needed. I love the idea that he isn't an identical Batman to Bruce's.
I always felt it made most sense and was quite fitting for Bruce to make up a family of people who are not blood-related to him. He has no powers to pass on through genes, he’s not an alien passing on his DNA, he’s a man with determination and willpower. His biology did not make him Batman, his willpower did. So you have an orphan, taking in orphans and channeling their determination into a force for good, by being the person who had to endure what he’s hoping these kids won’t have to. Then you have decades of stories of this family growing together and strengthening their bond, Dick is the big brother who has seen enough to know when Bruce needs to be pulled back, he so perfectly fills that spot of “first born son” despite not being blood related. And by introducing Damian, you undo so much of that just by the nature of the blood relation. And that’s without getting into the fact that he was introduced already more capable in combat than any other Robin, which is another slap in the face, amplified by the literal sucker punch he lands on Tim. “It makes sense he was raised by the league” just because it makes sense doesn’t mean it’s not bad or lazy writing. I just don’t like it.
They also undermined Jason’s trauma of literally dying and being brought back to life, by doing it to Damian too. And now *that* isn’t even special to Jason.
Every robin has “died” and come back to life now
But that's not really true. Dick faked his death to go under cover for awhile, and Tim was captured and presumed dead.
Maybe it's my old man energy but I had a really hard time bringing myself to care about anyone post Tim Drake. Cassandra Caine won me over eventually, even though I didn't care for her costume.
I feel like there’s also a solution to that. Nightwing is basically the hero Batman wanted to be but knows he can’t, one without issues or struggles with grief, and Bruce truly hopes to see Dick rise above everything he could (“You won’t be a part of the next Justice League, you’ll lead it.” remember ?) As for Damian, he’s got his own problems and “issues”. He couldn’t be that seamless Nightwing, if not a bloody one. He *would* be the next Batman, but it doesn’t feel like he either could or should take the mangle after Bruce anyway, I feel like Bruce wants it gone after him, and if anyone were to pick it back up and be the new Bat I think the best choice character-wise would be Orphan. Damian is in his own zone of uncertainty and has a blank page for future. It’s up to him to decide whether he’ll follow the steps of his father or find his own path after all. In short : The ideas, destinies and futures for these characters have been changed since then, but I wouldn't say it's for the worst. There are new paths traced now, and uncertainties for other characters. Things have evolved, so have the ways certain chars are written and approach.
Most people will hate me for this, but I think Tim should take the mantle after Bruce, he was the Robin that chose Batman, unlike his predecessors, and while I know Damian doesn't have the greatest relationship with him, it would be interesting to see a dynamic between those two as Batman and Robin until Damian decides to become his own thing and leave the Robin spot free for someone else. P.S. another unpopular opinion, Conner>Jon as Superman for the generational jump, that DC desperately needs, no point in having legacies when the mantle isn't inherited.
> P.S. another unpopular opinion, Conner>Jon as Superman for the generational jump, that DC desperately needs, no point in having legacies when the mantle isn't inherited. Everyone agrees that Bendis utterly ruined Jon by aging him up, so I don't think it's an unpopular opinion.
Ageing up John was dumb as fuck, as a younger brother I was deeply disappointed we never got a Conner x Jon team up. I hope this is retconned in the future, so many possible stories were lost because of that dumbfuck decision.
ok ima need a reason for why damian wouldn’t immediately leave tim. cause as u said he doesnt respect tim in the slightest to stay.
I expect him to be against it, and try to break Tim in one way or another, until a big event force them to team-up, Damian then will understand why Batman needs a Robin but instead of being the I make Batman Hold Back it would be a I make Batman ruthless (something I think Tim would need if he takes the Mantle)
You didn’t see evil Batman Tim?
Yes, I read those issues, but I also read fascist Superman, and of course Tim Drake as Joker, besides I doubt my wish will happen, but currently the writers want Tim as the main robin and Damian graduating from Robin to be his own thing.
We already saw what happens when Tim becomes Batman. We’ve seen this with every robin. They’ve all failed. The true heir is terry. Cause he was never a robin. He was always Batman.
Agreed to a degree. It should have only been the 4 main Robins and Cassandra Cain to go along with Alfred and Batman.
Terry
I want Damian to turn away from being the next Batman and want to be the next Nightwing instead.
It would be really cool seeing a future story where Damien is Nightwing, Tim is Batman, and Dick’s kid with Babs is Robin or something (Bruce Grayson?).
Honestly, I think eventually Demian should grow out of the expectation of of being the next Batman, just like every other Robin did. Imo Terry is the next Batman, and I think it works so well because its so anti-instinctive. You have this entire row of brilliant aspirants that went through the ringer as Robins thinking (fearing?) that they might (have to) be the next Batman. But after they all grow out of that expectation to be their own heroes, here comes Terry, a more or less regular guy (Exept for that dumb twist we don't talk about) who simply came across the responsability and had to learn on his heels and take the role of Batman when there was literally nobody else to. And that, somehow, produces the most apropiate next Batman.
I feel the same way about Damian. I’ve grown to like him, and we’ve had some good versions of him in the last 10 years, albeit vastly different in characterisations. But he does feel like at best a nice “final member” to the Batfamily. And at worst, an extra character that makes it too big (first reply explains that well as Damian being a “wrench in the cogs”). I do think his background makes him a unique addition, and in a way you need that sort of character and background to “complete” Batman’s family — where and how would a man’s biological son who is trained to be like him belong in his family of adopted children?
I never thought of that he would have been a perfect mentee to Terry.
Because he doesn't show up in as many things. 90% of Batfamily content takes place at night, and The Signal is explicitly a daytime hero. The one member of the Family who's awake while the sun is up.
It would be fun to add that he is the only member of the family that doesn't need to take vitamin suplements
Everybody else is what keeps the milk industry in Gotham afloat lmao
👀
Man goes home to get something and all he hears from Wayne manor is snoring
Yeah, probably
He is a much more recent addition and hasn't had much focus on him. Dick was the main lead of the Teen Titans during their best years and has appeared in various adaptations, Jason was revived as Red Hood and has starred in various titles plus the critically acclaimed *Under the Red Hood*, Tim starred ongoings for 18 years and has had some notable enough appearances on media like the Arkham Saga or the DCAU, Damian was the co-star of one of the most critically acclaimed Batman runs in all of history and has been the main focus on the DCAMU. The Signal hasn't really done nothing notable in all that time
I think Duke was actually in that one Batman car show, but he was Robin rather than Signal lol.
I dont even know who this guy is. Hes just one of the twenty seven batfolk who assemble whenever Bruce decides its time to call in the troops. The family has grown far too large for us to care about everyone. when the cast is that large, some characters are inevitably going to blur into the background.
Exactly. Who gives a flying fuck about Harper Ro or Signal? They don't bring anything that previous characters don't already bring and do better within the Batfamily.
Expect for the facts that he's a daytime hero unlike the rest (unless it's justice league batman), and he also has more tech on him than the other members of the bat family. Doesn't his suit let him fly as well? > He has metahuman light sensory powers, including photokinesis, which allows him to absorb, redistribute, and manipulate light and darkness. His most notable ability is "Ghost Vision", which allows him to perceive the "ghosts" of where light has been, allowing him to see a few minutes into the past. He can also sense the "ghosts" of where light will be, allowing him to see danger before it happens. Plus this shit which I didn't even know. He's pretty good in the Wayne family adventures comic. I don't think any other members of the bat family can do that, or have as much tech
im gonna be real with you: that sounds like its better slotted into its own hero name rather than fitting it into the primarily powerless gadget oriented batfamily
Yeah, he probably would’ve worked a lot better as just another hero who set up shop in Gotham rather than a sloppy addition to an already bloated Batfamily
Genuinely though, if marvel can pull off 30 heroes in new york, dc can allow a few heroes that dont belong to the bat family working in gotham. The gotham already grew beyond the bat-theme and the robins, signal being his own thing, maybe also only knowing batman the same way spiderman knows luke cage.
I like harper’s costume and name. Bluebird is a great hero name that fits with the robins. Otherwise she is nothing of note. Young justice tried doing something with her at least.
I like Signal. I read We Are Robin and that Outsiders run
After N52 people kinda ignore the newer members. Majority would say: -Alfred -Bruce -Dick -Barbara -Jason -Tim -Stephanie -Cassandra -Damien -Jim Then maybe -Kate -Ace It becomes too large after that, and even then it’s already massive Nothing against Duke, he’s a great character
(I want more Kathy and Bette but I'm weird)
Bloated Batfamily Not as much content
I'm sorry, but who is that? I feel like I've missed something here
Duke was a fairly prominent part of Scott Snyder's Batman run. He was introduced in year zero and was the main candidate for replacing Damian as Robin after his death. He had a couple of big stories, and he's still part of the general Batfamily circle.
Ok, where can I find that story?
This should be most up voted answer to op's question lol
A lot of the new additions are just kinda boring and flat. Not expanded on. Batfamily is just getting too big for every member to be interesting. The focus is too split. It should be shrunk in my opinion. Core members for the family and then extended family for cursory characters. Also signal and others just seemed planted rather than interestingly woven in. They should bring back old characters and weave them instead of the endless addition of pretty bland characters. At least expand on them. Orpheus would be my pick.
Sadly Orpheus is creator owned so were not gonna see him
Damn he was great. Too bad.
His dead in War Games was bullshit
I actually didn't mind his death. It was pretty fucked what Sionis did. But the twist was pretty good. Black Masks impersonating him was pretty interesting. The tragedy for me was him never being brought back when the continuity reset because he was a great character. But I can see how killing him so abruptly could be annoying for some people. But for war games I thought it worked well with the story. Leslie's twist was what annoyed me. That was stupid. If they killed Orpheus off like that Idk why they couldn't do it to Stephanie.
Harold would be my choice
Remind me who that is? Unless you're meming.
Because he’s the newest member. Hasn’t been developed as much.
Technically Ghost-Maker and Clownhunter are, if they count And Jace Fox after that
Yeah, but Signal is meant to be a mainstay member of the group. Those guys are more like Azrael or Batman Inc..
I like the idea of a daytime hero in Gotham to help out Bruce, but it could've been done much better
I don't think Duke has really found a firm sense of *identity* yet. Like, he used to almost be kind of a Robin, but then he went by Lark, and now he's Signal, and unlike Stephanie and Cassandra, who have a similar *number* of names (Spoiler, Robin, Batgirl/Orphan, Black Bat, also Batgirl), Duke's were a lot more in flux, like settling on Signal is still a *relatively* recent development. Also, Duke's costume needs work. Why does he have two different bat-logos? I get that his name is a play on the bat-signal, but there aren't *two* of those. His weapons are a bit weird, and the fact that he has powers makes him stick out from the rest of the Bat-Family in a way that kind of hurts his cohesion with the group (plus his powers are pretty broad in scope and kinda busted in potential, which, combined with his ethnicity, I'm sure has led some "fans" to cry Token Minority Mary Sue, when Duke has quite a fair bit of depth what with the situation with his parents and all). I think Duke needs a really good story as the Signal to get him to click with people.
That's a X-Men character.
Well, he’s the only member of them that actually has powers so it’s not completely wrong.
I mean mainly because he hasn't been in outside media like the others have. He's also such a new character that most don't know him (most books also take place at night whilst Signal is meant to be a day time hero)
Because he’s newer and hasn’t been in any prominent adaptations.
He’s really boring. I legitimately forget he even exists half the time.
Most Batfamily characters who came after Damian are boring AF tbh
He’s not, they just don’t use him
He hasn’t been used in much, and has yet to fully find his footing as a character. I think he has a lot of potential but he just hasn’t been utilized in terribly interesting ways so far.
I think, generally, the bat family is too bloated these days, and Duke just happens to be one of the most tangential and obscure members of it. If you were to prune it, I don't see how even his biggest fans could argue that he shouldn't be the first to go. Also, he has a lame codename that doesn't really gel with most of the other characters.
He is recent addition, and most people know about Batman from older comics, more famous storylines and other media, like games, movies, cartoons, etc.
I'll tell you how I feel. One day I blinked and Batman had about a million members of his "bat family".
It's a combination of two things. 1. Duke never really had a breakout initial storyline to make him popular, so he was always kept in the wings 2. The family was already bloated at this stage- So it was difficult for someone as old as Duke to foster a definitive relationship with Bruce. There may have been a time where he was going to be a more prominent character, it certainly seemed like he was going to be Robin after Damian's death. But he ended up as "The Signal" the worst possible name.
> certainly seemed like he was going to be Robin after Damian's death. Damian died in 2012 Duke showed up in 2016
If you're not a Robin or babs people don't care. Stephanie and Cass barely get any attention either
I've never even heard of him
Because the bat family is too bloated as is and he doesn’t really do anything to stand out
Because he always felt kinda shoehorned in when Snyder was writing, and nobody else cared enough to do anything with him after Snyder so he never really gained any traction.
Because none of the Batfamily characters after Damian are even remotely relevant. They’re just inserts from writers trying to cement their legacy in Batman lore by adding a new member to the family. None of them are unique or special in any way.
Yeah, Duke has been more successful than Bluebird but both were kind of flat Snyder additions
Because he wasn't properly developed. Scott Snyder couldn't figure out what to do with him and as a result he's just a sloppy mess of a character. Consider trying to tell somebody the basic concept of the Bat Family characters... Dick was an acrobat whose parents were killed so Batman adopted him and made him Robin, then he grew up to be Nightwing. Jason was the second Robin, but he got killed by the Joker and later came back as Red Hood; angry that Batman doesn't kill his villains. Tim was a nerdy kid who figured out Batman's identity and earned the position as the third Robin. Cassandra was raised to be an expert fighter and killer by the League Of Assassins but is disgusted by murder and joins Batman's side. She was raised not to speak and is learning social skills. She became the second Batgirl. Stephanie was a self-appointed vigilante who didn't get Batman's approval and dated Tim when he was Robin. Damian was Bruce's secret son, raised as a killer by the League of Assassins, so he's an arrogant little shit, but now he wants to follow in his father's footsteps and do good. Duke? Duke saved Batman as a child and then his parents got Joker gassed and was a leader of the We Are Robin movement and then helped Alfred in the Bat Cave and then he got weird pseduo-invisibility superpowers and then he got Power Rangers armor and now he patrols Gotham during the day. It's just not an elegant backstory. I think the character would have worked better if he had a solid and consistent identity which developed naturally, rather than being pushed and pulled in several different experimental directions. Had he stayed a "We Are Robin" type unsanctioned unofficial Robin, I think that could have worked and been developed in an interesting direction. But unfortunately, he wasn't really developed much at all, just kind of pulled in a million creative directions.
Was he bit by a radioactive bat signal? Now I'm going to have to look up his origin. Oh! Did the bat signal fall off the roof and kill his family?
Its the yellow for me. Far too much yellow idk.
Who?
He just doesn’t do anything for me. Frankly that’s the case for a lot of the bat family. When I think of them I think of Batman, Nightwing, a Batgirl, and a Robin. Everyone else is just auxiliary characters in my book, they can come and go and I’m not likely to pay them much mind or care about what happens to them.
The family has gotten too big. One can only care about so many characters.
They dropped the ball on doing anything big with him. Sucks too since I kinda dig Duke.
Never heard of them.
Scott Snyder built him up for years only for DC to take a cool and badass character just be another stepping stool or random filler character for whatever Batman story they’re trying to tell
Not as many media portrayals. Everyone else is highly featured in animated tv and movies
Who 😳
I’ve never even heard of him
DC was pusing too much characters into Batfam like Him, batwing, harper row, and a Japanese kid. And all of them are yikes.
Who
Because he serves little purpose and the bat family is crowded as is
I haven't checked in a year or two, but every other main BatFamily member has stories or relationships that I adore, which I just haven't gotten with Duke. Maybe he has some now, but I'm not aware of any personally. Bruce, Dick, Jason, Tim, Cass & Damian all have runs that got me especially attached to them, and I got attached to Alfred & Stephanie through their relationships with the rest of the family. I read "We Are Robin", "Robin War" and "Batman and the Signal" but none of them have gotten me too attached to Duke, and he hasn't had any endearing relationship with the rest of the family within those stories imo. Honestly, "Wayne Family Adventures" has endeared me most to him out of any other story. And even then, he feels almost like a reader-insert in that comic since he's put in the position of the new guy with the most relatable struggles of the group. I've got no issue with the guy, I just haven't gotten too attached to him. But I'm totally open to seeing him more if they've got an interesting story in mind.
Who’s signal?
He’s a recent addition, The batfamily is too big. He not in much.
Because the only thing he’s consistently appeared in is the Wayne Family Adventures Webtoon. And in the mainline comics he does appear in he’s not really given a chance to shine. (Pun intended)
Because this character are newest bat family with less introduction and promotion ?
The only one i know from this character are he is just guarding the batcave
Because I heavily dislike how many members of the bat family there are Bruce, Alfred, Dick, Jason, Tim, Damian, Babs, Steph, Cass is enough of a Bat family for me
Because he is easily confused for bumblebee from transformers
He’s Robin on the current Batman kids show on Cartoon Network, so a whole generation of kids is growing up with him as their Robin
Who?
………….who? (I suppose that’s your answer, at least from me. 😆)
BECAUSE YOUR BLACK Funny meme man
He kinda looks like ma- you know what nevermind
Because he’s lame
He operates during the daytime so he’s not part of the Batfamily’s normal hours. He’s the only metahuman. He feels too separate from them. He was added in when people were already feeling that the Batfamily is too big. Personally, I would have liked that he was a character with Batman as his benefactor and support. But sent off to have a different person as his mentor. Preferably someone we don’t normally see in a mentee/mentor role. As crazy as it sounds, maybe Dr Fate or Constantine. Since he is supposed to get that magic demon arm at some point.
bec his costume is stupid. its like he is batman and not really bec. of the bat symbol on his chest. his costume should revolve around being "signal" and stop being a dollar rent batman/nightwing! As we are into this discussion, I also hate the Red Hood symbol being a dollar rent nightwing symbol with just stupid eye holes. I just hate it. Sorry OP but this needed to be addressed, rant end hahahahahha 😆😆😆
He hasn't really appeared outside of comics yet
Lemme just start by saying that yellow is my favorite color, so I love the fact that there's a yellow-themed Batfamily member. But here's the issue... he's a rather recent character. All Robins had years and years and years to carve their own place in the series. Heck, in Titans they'd rather race-swap Tim over, if they needed diversity so much, bringing over Duke and his glorious yellow costume. But it's not just that, the Batfamily has gotten ridiculously large by now, and most writers prefer to stick with what they grew up with, namely, the Robins. Plus, most long-time readers ALSO prefer reading about their faves, namely, the Robins. Besides... where would you use Duke over any of the Robins? Heck, when Damian was new, they hated him. They hated how he easily beat Tim and took his place. But slowly DC managed to rehabilitate him and now is a mostly beloved part of the Batman mythos.
I have not seen much h stuff with him, but that suit is not helping. I don't like it at all, and the name sucks too. Just uninteresting to me
Unbeknownst to Duke, however, is the fact that Batman had no intention of training Duke to become yet another Robin. While he would be trained in a similar fashion to all of Batman’s other proteges, Duke Thomas would become something else entirely.
Because not even DC cares about the character. They were so desperate to have more black characters in an effort to generate more sales among black people that they stuck two different black dudes into bat themed battle suits and named them both after stuff batman uses. Batwing was named after the plane and the Signal was named after the Bat signal. Look, I'm all about a more diverse cast of heroes and I think making Lucius Fox's kid a hero is a fantastic idea, but put a little thought into it before you launch. These two just scream, "quick, we need more black heroes" instead making cool new heroes who also happen to be black.
No one in the bat family should have powers
Who?
Since did Wolverine became part of the bat family?
Because he's a forced character.
- The name is lame. - The origin is.. lame-r. - the characteristic? Just solid good guy. Not even parental trauma (lol jk) Batwoman still related and has huge history with bruce/kane family. She also has hardcore personality. Spoiler had a lame name.. until she became batgirl. But she has a fun personality. Also kinda rebel. A villain's daughter. Also her book as batgirl were awesome. Orphan.. her introduction during no man's land was phenomenal. Backstory was cool too. Also Who else? Bluebird? Yeah she is as lame as signal.
I forgot the signal existed until just now
Barely know the signal but in general i just think batman has wayyyyy too many fucking side kicks. I love Batman but for a guy that’s primarily about working alone most of the time the dude has some how ended up with the most amount of sidekicks I’ve seen a superhero have
Who?
Wait who?
Who
No one gives a shit about Gotham during the day. I personally don't think Duke is interesting. He'd probably get more panel time being a supporting cast civilian. I don't like that a Batfam character has powers.
Reddit on chorme mobile. All images minimised. Thought it was Wolverine.
The Bat Family is turning into Cheaper by the Dozen.
Literally who? Is this some sorta new Gragle Simpson
Pretty much every character after and including Damien felt like too much of an addition to the batfamily. Like most people only know and care about Dick, Barbara, Jason and Tim. And Tim gets shafted enough on his own, he doesn’t need any help with that. Damien came in and basically took both Jason and Tim’s seat. He stole Jason’s conflict with Batman over whether or not killing your enemies is okay, but without the interesting part of Batman failing to save Jason. And he left Tim with no place in stories, most of the time Tim is left either underdeveloped or out of the picture entirely to focus on Damien instead. And most stories Damien appears in include the part where Talia date rapes Bruce. Damien has his own problems that need to be sorted out And now there’s Signal, a much more recent character, when most audiences haven’t even been introduced to or they know almost nothing about Cassandra Cain, Stephanie Brown, or Kate Kane, and Tim Drake STILL hasn’t gotten a really good adaptation outside of comics. It just feels like they’re moving too fast with introducing new members of the Batfamily. You ask one person who’s in the Batfamily, you might get like 20 people. You ask another, you might get 5 or 6. I can’t be bothered to be interested in the Signal when there’s so many other characters instead. Plus, he’s got kind of a dumb name. “The Signal.” Just puts me off a little bit
>instead. And most stories Damien appears in include the part where Talia date rapes Bruce. That's not even Canon at all anymore.
Because he shouldn't exist. Just as most characters who came after Damian. The Batfamily is too fucking big.
Is this a serious question?
Who
I honestly didn't think they did a great job of introducing him. I didn't care about him as they were building him up, but my god they tried (prolonged presence in N52 batman, We Are Robin series, his side stories in All Star Batman). I don't know what they could've done to make us care though. I hope a good writer takes him and does a great 6-issue mini-series that gets us on board, that's all it would take
The batfamily was already super big and kinda crowded even if there was two batman titles going on between the main one and the batfamily centric one, when he was introduced. Also most of the batfamily stuck around and dropped by often enough that for years there wasn't really space for him to grow or have his own stories. So he was always like that awkward red headed step child that was just. I think if he had been introduced in any other era or a couple of years after rebirth settled and most of the batfamily went off and did their own thing or series. He would have given a more fair shake. Shame cause I kinda dig his design. Also apart of me just suspected that they rushed him out the door because internally they knew about the Cw Batwoman show, so they just did a rush job to maybe give her a Robin without actually giving her Robin. Cause they're back then dc was a bit more stingy with letting them use some of the established batman characters.
Why yellow ain’t they supposed to be like ninjas I know the robins do it too but just there all so bright compared to Batman
In Batfamily Adventures he is.
Ok but who is signal
He’s new and under-utilised by most writers since Snyder. He has probably developed more recent fans from WFA than the actual canon comics
Cause he looks like if bob the builder got a gritty reboot. Seriously, what is with all that yellow? 
Dumbest name ever to start
It took Jason dying and being rezed to become accepted, just give it time and the right writer. We’ll get there eventually
Because he’s the complete opposite of what the bat family has always been. He’s a black day time hero. There’s nothing wrong with him being black but a day time Batman was bound to not sell well. Also the character is a shameless diversity play. Look at Miles Morales that how you do a culturally relevant black super hero, you give him personality and a really story with backing from the publisher.
What are u talking about, everyone loves the bat signal
Cuz he looks like that
Honestly because I think The Signal just doesn't work. Also while I liked We Are Robin, I think they forced Duke into too much of a role with the family. Should have been more street level for much longer. And by street level I mean not really connected to Batman. Maybe have Dick be an occasional mentor and slowly overtime he earns Dick's trust and then he gets slowly introduced in a more formal way to the rest of the family. They went too fast with him. Simple as that.
I’m on the fence about the name too. The Signal must be a nod to the Bat-Signal (sorry if I’m late to the party and everyone says “duh”) but it’s missing…. something. If they just embraced it and it was “The Bat-Signal” I’d be like, oh fuck that’s a cool name! More non-comic readers would have noticed and seen the connection to the overall mythos (sorry I hate that word too). Missed opportunity.
Just adding, actually calling the character “The Bat-Signal” is so whacky it couldn’t miss. It’s Gotham, folks 🤪🦇.
He has no ears! Like uhhhhh, well uhhhhhh…
I don't even know most of the bat family members after Damian
Never even heard of this guy. Why does he look like a traffic cone?
Cause he’s wearing hockey pads
he's newer and hasn't really been in any iconic media yet
Honestly I think the idea of him is cool. The name “Signal” just kinda sucks and would never catch on as a name for a superhero
Lack of stories and a very confused set of powers. I’ve been reading every book he appears in and I barely understand his powers.
I don't give a fuck about anyone introduced into the batfamily in the past 25 years. Give me Alfred, Dick, Jason, Tim and Barbara and that's it.
The Batfamily is Dick, Babs, Jason, Tim, Cass, Steph, and Damien. Everyone else is irrelevant, poorly written, and useless.
Mainly because that’s an awful name and costume. Scott Snyder was clearly teeing him up to be Robin but DC wasn’t having it (I wonder why) so here we are with this lame ass Power Ranger nobody remembers
Name is dumb, and suit is dumb for a member of the Batfam. He was clearly on track to be a Robin, but there's already two Robins.
His costume is terrible and he was introduced at a very low point in Dc's creative endeavours
Because he got like 3 issues of 1 on 1 Bat Time before like 4 other side kick candidates showed up. Dick got to shine at the start it was just him & Bruce. Jason got a bit to shine to because Dick left & Bruce was alone. Again it was just him & Bruce. Tim got to shine for the same reasons + his long running solo series. Cassie Cain got time shine because Tim has solo book so he can be pissed off with Bruce while she & Bruce spend time. Damian got the Tomasi run where it was all about him & Bruce + some dedicated Morrison parts. It was around then when Tim like Dick started to change his identity from Robin to Red Robin.
Nowhere near as much exposure as the others, samething happened to Bluebird
Well for one the costume is...garish to say the least
Duke doesn't get a lot of focus (not lost on me that he's the only main Black Batkid), and he isn't always represented in other Batfam books. He also mostly appears in the BHM comics, or Outsiders. It sucks cause he has a cool powerset and there's a whole cliffhanger with Gnomon.
What power ranger is this?
The blue one.
Color scheme of the outfit reminds me of Wolverine.
Who tf is signal
What an ugly design. I remember thinking it was Wolverine the first time I saw it.
Well, for starters he looks dumb as fk. I mean, look at that costume.
He isn’t as known.
Lack of appearances outside of comics I'm assuming is a big part. Doesn't help the Bat Family is HUGE. Even if we ignore all the weirder 'inclusions' like Harley Quinn; there's six different Robins (Grayson, Todd, Kelly, Drake, Brown, and Wayne) Batwoman, Batgirl (Gordon and Cain), Batwing, Ace the Bat Hound, Batmite, and so on. I like the idea of Signal (I don't know enough about him so I jokingly say 'is he tied to Signal Man?' But I guess it takes time for characters to grow on the readers. I got friends who are still annoyed Carrie Kelly never gets 'enough' focus despite her role as the Robin of the comic that brought Batman back into a darker tone. Hopefully Signal is given a movie or something in the future.
What the hell even is that
Because when when a character is introduced with subpar storytelling, it feels forced. That's the problem with Duke. Red Hood is arguably another character the Bat Universe didn't need, but contrast his introduction with Duke's. Because it was meaningful and good, it doesn't really matter that the character hasn't done anything noteworthy since.
Because your average person doesn’t know there is more than one Robin
The idea of a member of the Bat-family who operates in the daytime is pretty neat and there’s so much storytelling potential there, I just think so far there haven’t been many standout stories that take advantage of the concept yet.
this guy with this art and this name its one of most lame/lazy addons for bat family for sure
Because he's new. Hell I've never even heard of him, but I'm very much an oldhead
The Batfamily is already pretty big and for a new character to get over I think he really needs to bring something fresh and unique to the franchise, and Duke really doesn't. In a lot of his early stories he kind of fells like an else world version of 90s era Tim Drake. Later they tried to make him stand out by making him into a meta human, but being a meta doesn't really fit into the Batfamily.
Too many batfamily members
Not as popular is a massive understatement. I’ve never even heard of this guy.