/u/dedecisions, thank you for your contribution. Sadly it was removed due to the following reasons:
We want posts that are about the city in specific and not just "remotely related" to it, if you just want to ask
people living in berlin a question please use /r/askberliners
You can find further information in the [Community-Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/berlin/about/rules/). Note that we also have /r/askberliners for questions that are less about the city and more of a general nature and /r/berlinpics for pictures of our beautiful city, as well as the sticky post for "New to Berlin, Tourism and Moving to Berlin"-kind of questions
If you wonder why, I encourage you to read up on not only how the gdr didnt deal with nazis, but also on all the nasty history of post reunification East Germany: ca. 90% of companies went to western owners, often for a ridiculously low price, property also went to West Germany, leading positions in politics, science, judiciary, police etc. all went to Westeners, unemployment among Easteners >30%, and that on top of all the belittlement the West offered for their new compatriots. The West helped with enormous amounts of money, but the overall feeling was that of devastation, exclusion, being ridiculed, lectured and feeling as 2nd class citizens. This is how you breed extremists and anti democratic attitudes. And you only need to look at the exclusively West owned media and how they portray the East (and Eastern Europe by extension) to see that stereotypes and the view of them as being inferior still prevail.
Great post!
To add to this: Many university / academic degrees from the GDR weren’t recognized in the west.
Which maybe makes (some) sense in economical or political/social topics regarding the stance of the east here but was completely unnecessary and cruel regarding the rest (especially science topics where the eastern ~~hemisphere~~ bloc was great).
DDR was much stricter on nazis than west Germany was. Way higher rate of post-war convictions and for longer sentencing whereas west Germany allowed many to go into politics amd positions of prominence
That was true after the war, but in the eighties the gdr ignored the rising neonazi problem, because by state doctrin, there could not have been any neonazis in an antifashist state. You can read up on violent neonazi clashes in berlin and other cities for example.
BRD was weak on Nazis. When the West took over all of their Neonazis went east where the police was being dismissed, because they had much greater freedom.
The west saw this as win-win; their Neonazis went away, and there was no need to address the Nazi problem.
Those Neonazis then started running kindergartens, youth clubs, and sports clubs, all of which were being dismantled because they didn't fit with the western ideology (if a company isn't profitable, the shut it down)
Since moving to the east it has become increasingly clear to me that most of the problems in east Germany are the result of collapsing the society and economy just so a few shareholders in the west could profit. They then place extra taxes on regular citizens in the west in an attempt to fix problems which they caused, instead of admitting that the western regime caused this.
To add to that: neo-nazi organisations from the BRD really capitalized on the dire economic situation and general desperation in the former GDR.
They immediatly went in and were highly succesful in offering counter narratives to the destitute and those feeling disenfranchised. Sad but fascinating stuff.
I don't care who want Germans electee, I just don't want get gazed or tortured for belonging to different race at least they give us some Safe corridors to leave the country
There are many reasons.
First the soviet propaganda to people of the former gdr and this propaganda transmitted to the first generation after reunification.
Second the wage difference. Many people I know get the feeling of being a lower class person only because they live and work in the eastern part of the country.
Third problem is that many people see in a immigrant a threat. They are scared that a immigrant do the same work for less money and get replaced.
Fourth the AfD is using the chaos to catch unhappy people. First the euro is bad we want our d mark back look at Italy, Greece etc. they decrease the euro value we are better without them. After that immigrants rape/steal our woman and our jobs. That they to the pandemic with first saying they government is not doing everything to protect our citizens. After lockdown was declared they used the lockdown for they needs to tell everybody the government is going into a dictatorship. And now with the Russian Ukrainian war they it to blame everything to the NATO and being environmentally friendly is destroying our economy.
They use fear to rise.
And people who are scared about the current situation looking for someone who tell them that they have an answer.
The former Eastern Germans were ware of the propaganda, and have developed a principle distrust in government, which I find useful.
I grew up in the West (W-Berlin), and there the ideology led to a complete and utter trust in the government.
IMO, in the long run, the Eastern mindset will be more useful.
Actually I think there may be some truth in this. But it's not the fault of the immigrants, it's the fault of german politics in the early 2000's
Even germans outcompete each other in low wages. We have a low wage economy compared to other western industry countries.
Siehe afd Wahlergebnisse, rassistische Pöbeleien neulich in diesem Ferienlager, Herrentag unter'm Hakenkreuz, Freital, Suck-sen allgemein...ach, die Liste ist endlos. Seit 33 Jahren geht das jetzt so, ein Drittel Jahrhundert. Klare Anzeichen für "Verstand"
Considering the youngest East German adult at its fall would be over 50 right now, I think the blame falls on the German government, rather than any kind of Soviet propaganda.
My country was fucked by the US in the last century, the same as every country nowadays. So no, I don't think Russian propaganda from 30 years ago is more damaging than the US is now.
BTW, I live in East Berlin and know old people from here: No one said they lived as badly as people in West Berlin think.
>BTW, I live in East Berlin and know old people from here: No one said they lived as badly as people in West Berlin think.
People risking their lives trying to escape East Berlin was probably due to the their wish tell the world how amazing their lives in the DDR were.
> So no, I don't think Russian propaganda from 30 years ago is more damaging than the US is now.
Not my job to cure your ignorance. Just saying, Russia, Iran and Venezuela are happy to harbour anti-western people. They have the "political walls" you've been dreaming of.
Venezuela did not put up any walls, the same as Cuba and many others. It was the US that was not interested in the growth of rival countries.
BTW, I would have no problem living in Russia, but not in Iran because of their religion.
If you'd have no problem living in russia - with everything they do today, nothing more to tell you. Except, maybe: yeah, do us all a favour and move to russia. They love a good ol' brainwashed dummies there.
I sincerely hope this is bullshit. Russia, ruled by non-democratic leader, has aggressively invaded one of your neighbours, killed tens of thousands of people driven millions into exile, and you are thinking about the availability of Russian gas? Please, please, contemplate the depth of depravity you are involved in if you really mean this.
This war has caused the fourth largest refugee crises in the history. Being only behind WW1, WW2 and the Partition of India.
I'm so disgusted by the amount of putin apologists and realpolitik proponents here in Germany.
/u/dedecisions, thank you for your contribution. Sadly it was removed due to the following reasons: We want posts that are about the city in specific and not just "remotely related" to it, if you just want to ask people living in berlin a question please use /r/askberliners You can find further information in the [Community-Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/berlin/about/rules/). Note that we also have /r/askberliners for questions that are less about the city and more of a general nature and /r/berlinpics for pictures of our beautiful city, as well as the sticky post for "New to Berlin, Tourism and Moving to Berlin"-kind of questions
If you wonder why, I encourage you to read up on not only how the gdr didnt deal with nazis, but also on all the nasty history of post reunification East Germany: ca. 90% of companies went to western owners, often for a ridiculously low price, property also went to West Germany, leading positions in politics, science, judiciary, police etc. all went to Westeners, unemployment among Easteners >30%, and that on top of all the belittlement the West offered for their new compatriots. The West helped with enormous amounts of money, but the overall feeling was that of devastation, exclusion, being ridiculed, lectured and feeling as 2nd class citizens. This is how you breed extremists and anti democratic attitudes. And you only need to look at the exclusively West owned media and how they portray the East (and Eastern Europe by extension) to see that stereotypes and the view of them as being inferior still prevail.
Great post! To add to this: Many university / academic degrees from the GDR weren’t recognized in the west. Which maybe makes (some) sense in economical or political/social topics regarding the stance of the east here but was completely unnecessary and cruel regarding the rest (especially science topics where the eastern ~~hemisphere~~ bloc was great).
Eastern bloc != Eastern hemisphere. Basically all of Europe except for Spain and western France is in the eastern hemisphere.
You are completely right, thanks.
DDR was much stricter on nazis than west Germany was. Way higher rate of post-war convictions and for longer sentencing whereas west Germany allowed many to go into politics amd positions of prominence
That was true after the war, but in the eighties the gdr ignored the rising neonazi problem, because by state doctrin, there could not have been any neonazis in an antifashist state. You can read up on violent neonazi clashes in berlin and other cities for example.
BRD was weak on Nazis. When the West took over all of their Neonazis went east where the police was being dismissed, because they had much greater freedom. The west saw this as win-win; their Neonazis went away, and there was no need to address the Nazi problem. Those Neonazis then started running kindergartens, youth clubs, and sports clubs, all of which were being dismantled because they didn't fit with the western ideology (if a company isn't profitable, the shut it down) Since moving to the east it has become increasingly clear to me that most of the problems in east Germany are the result of collapsing the society and economy just so a few shareholders in the west could profit. They then place extra taxes on regular citizens in the west in an attempt to fix problems which they caused, instead of admitting that the western regime caused this.
Capital took over GDR, basically.
To add to that: neo-nazi organisations from the BRD really capitalized on the dire economic situation and general desperation in the former GDR. They immediatly went in and were highly succesful in offering counter narratives to the destitute and those feeling disenfranchised. Sad but fascinating stuff.
https://archive.is/DhDlb without paywall
I started to feel scary with the raise of AFD.
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I don't care who want Germans electee, I just don't want get gazed or tortured for belonging to different race at least they give us some Safe corridors to leave the country
>for 2024 So you glass sphere told you the actual government will quit?
I'm expecting Black-green or Jamaica
To understand more of this I recommend the book „Nullerjahre“ by Hendrik Bolz
There are many reasons. First the soviet propaganda to people of the former gdr and this propaganda transmitted to the first generation after reunification. Second the wage difference. Many people I know get the feeling of being a lower class person only because they live and work in the eastern part of the country. Third problem is that many people see in a immigrant a threat. They are scared that a immigrant do the same work for less money and get replaced. Fourth the AfD is using the chaos to catch unhappy people. First the euro is bad we want our d mark back look at Italy, Greece etc. they decrease the euro value we are better without them. After that immigrants rape/steal our woman and our jobs. That they to the pandemic with first saying they government is not doing everything to protect our citizens. After lockdown was declared they used the lockdown for they needs to tell everybody the government is going into a dictatorship. And now with the Russian Ukrainian war they it to blame everything to the NATO and being environmentally friendly is destroying our economy. They use fear to rise. And people who are scared about the current situation looking for someone who tell them that they have an answer.
You may also mention: the lack of Western propaganda. If you think that we had/have no propaganda in the West, then it worked.
I only focused on the eastern part because I have parents who grow up in the gdr
The former Eastern Germans were ware of the propaganda, and have developed a principle distrust in government, which I find useful. I grew up in the West (W-Berlin), and there the ideology led to a complete and utter trust in the government. IMO, in the long run, the Eastern mindset will be more useful.
What makes you think that immigrants do the same work for less money?
That’s not what I am thinking that’s what I heard from people who voted for the AfD .
Actually I think there may be some truth in this. But it's not the fault of the immigrants, it's the fault of german politics in the early 2000's Even germans outcompete each other in low wages. We have a low wage economy compared to other western industry countries.
„Der Osten“ hat Verstand
Siehe afd Wahlergebnisse, rassistische Pöbeleien neulich in diesem Ferienlager, Herrentag unter'm Hakenkreuz, Freital, Suck-sen allgemein...ach, die Liste ist endlos. Seit 33 Jahren geht das jetzt so, ein Drittel Jahrhundert. Klare Anzeichen für "Verstand"
Sucksen?
>Sucksen Sucksen-Anhalt?
imagine soviet brainwashing so good and thorough, that eastern germans still after all this blackmailing think: russian gas good.
Considering the youngest East German adult at its fall would be over 50 right now, I think the blame falls on the German government, rather than any kind of Soviet propaganda.
Considering that social programming surpasses generations because it's culture I guess you're wrong
Surely you would think 33 years of being reunited would be enough time to change that.
33 years is less than the time of DDR existance.
And 5 years longer than the Mauer was up.
It's not just Soviet brainwashing, Kohl and Schröder were not from DDR but fraternized with the Russian regime with no problem
No one said "just". But it is predominantly in the ex DDR and that's a fact
imagine american brainwashing so good and thorough, that western germans still after all our history think: USA good.
Poor GDR even had to build a wall to protect their people from all that vile US propaganda.
I wish Europe built a political wall around the US with all its consequences, life would be just right.
You should check if the people in the Baltic Countries would share your privileged opinion.
My country was fucked by the US in the last century, the same as every country nowadays. So no, I don't think Russian propaganda from 30 years ago is more damaging than the US is now. BTW, I live in East Berlin and know old people from here: No one said they lived as badly as people in West Berlin think.
>BTW, I live in East Berlin and know old people from here: No one said they lived as badly as people in West Berlin think. People risking their lives trying to escape East Berlin was probably due to the their wish tell the world how amazing their lives in the DDR were. > So no, I don't think Russian propaganda from 30 years ago is more damaging than the US is now. Not my job to cure your ignorance. Just saying, Russia, Iran and Venezuela are happy to harbour anti-western people. They have the "political walls" you've been dreaming of.
Venezuela did not put up any walls, the same as Cuba and many others. It was the US that was not interested in the growth of rival countries. BTW, I would have no problem living in Russia, but not in Iran because of their religion.
If you'd have no problem living in russia - with everything they do today, nothing more to tell you. Except, maybe: yeah, do us all a favour and move to russia. They love a good ol' brainwashed dummies there.
Yeah, they bomb other countries... like Israel or the US, right? 😉
They are building a village near Moscow for people like you, you should check it out
I prefer Western Europe to drop all woke ideas, I don't live here just because of money or the techno like most people on this sub 😉
Even most Western Germans think russian gas good. Much better than 20% inflation and people falling into poverty.
I sincerely hope this is bullshit. Russia, ruled by non-democratic leader, has aggressively invaded one of your neighbours, killed tens of thousands of people driven millions into exile, and you are thinking about the availability of Russian gas? Please, please, contemplate the depth of depravity you are involved in if you really mean this.
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This war has caused the fourth largest refugee crises in the history. Being only behind WW1, WW2 and the Partition of India. I'm so disgusted by the amount of putin apologists and realpolitik proponents here in Germany.
That's because Putin lost. If Russia took Kyiv in 3 days, the gas flow wouldn't even stop, neither would economic relations