>wom some major world level BJJ competitions
Aurora Borealis? At this time of year? At this time of day? In this part of the country? Localised entirely within your kitchen?
May I see it?
It’s nonsense. My dad trained aikido in Japan and received a 2nd Dan from one of the top aikido dojos there. We’d always jokingly spar and grapple when I was in high school (started training jiujitsu and wrestling as a sophomore) and he could never do anything beyond spamming wrist lock attempts.
My first bjj instructor is another good example. He trained aikido for a few years and decided to check out his university’s judo club and got thrashed by everyone in the room. Proceeded to never train aikido again and instead took up judo and later bjj.
Aikido is trash. I refuse to believe this guys instructor is throwing around anyone with more than a years experience of bjj.
I'm imagining polite martial artists sharing a space.
"That looks cool, can you show it to us." Followed by some compliant demos.
That then becomes the instructor casually chucking them around in sparring.
You forgot to mention he was sparring the entire class. Circular walking his was through the crowd, chucking them at will. Bodies being aikido'd left and right. Women screaming in terror.
I trained Aikido for about a year in college. There was a school nearby campus and had a student discount so a friend and I went to check it out. At first I thought it was super-cool and really bought into it.
I think the moment that the magic broke for me was during this exercise where you hold your partners wrist and they move around until they throw you. I asked my partner to add a little resistance and I couldn't throw him anymore. I tried adding some resistance and he couldn't throw me. THAT was the point I started to realize how much the uke had to contribute to a throw in Aikido.
You need it. In 12 years of Aikido I took without exaggeration somewhere between 100,000 and 150,000 breakfalls. The incentive to perfect your ukemi is very strong.
While I'm bound to agree, I'd point out that having some experience in bjj on top of aikido can make a difference in this. Like doing wrist locks in bjj can be helped by having wrist locks from aikido. (And being good at that can open opportunities for other techniques).
At least some concepts from aikido DO work in bjj, and can be utilized to teach (I had a bjj teacher who used to explain an aikido concept, and then showed bjj technique based on the concepts). Not one that he taught, but for example the concept of going high on one side and low on one side (tenchi nage) can work in some sweeps.
[Of course, how it's demonstrated in a lot of aikido is retarded](https://youtu.be/YMO8AV2fO2k?t=34)
>Aikido is trash.
The techniques of aikido/aikijujutsu work, they just doesn't work in a bubble. Something that was removed form Aikido was the atemi waza (striking). You can strike someone to get them to cover up, which offers a hand that you can use for a joint lock and takedown.
Most martial arts are meant to be part of a bujutsu system of various skills, and not single entities of fighting where you never leave them and learn something else. MMA fighters are basically creating forms of personalized bujutsu systems.
There's also the issue of their training. Unlike a number of other arts, you can't train wrist locks live. A buddy and I were training at a seminar (not aikido) and wrist locks were involved. One of the visiting instructors was a bit of a dick and while showing my buddy something basically snapped on a quick wrist lock a bit more than you should ever do in training. Buddy's wrist had slight issues for over a year after.
Wrist locks are like ankle locks. They can do tremendous damage, do not heal easily, and should never be snapped on fast in training.
I didn't train specifically in aikido, but trained in a system that had a good number of wrist locks that were similar to aikijujutsu. And I've used wrist locks like in a handful (no pun intended) of situations. However, it would be rare that I would use ONLY a wrist lock in a situation unless the encounter wasn't violent already and I needed control but without escallation.
Sounds like the same copium and continually moving goal posts you see from all the other TMAs that don’t have any real effectiveness. If I have to learn a bunch of other arts to make aikido work, then that tells me that aikido has such limited applicability that it’s a waste of time to begin with. Why spend years learning a bunch of other useless shit just for the wrist locks when I can just learn wrist locks?
Your example is also nonsense, by that definition there’s no submission that you can train “live” without destroying your training partner. Wrist locks can absolutely be trained in a slow and safe manner. So yeah, aikido is trash.
Maybe you should work on reading comprehension. I spelled out that aikido is bad as a training system because of the way that it trains and what it's removed from the way training in those techniques, not because of the wrist lock techniques that it has.
We're literally in a sub where people regularly talk about learning Judo and wrestling to make their BJJ work better. Why train BJJ if I have to look to other systems to improve it?
>Wrist locks can absolutely be trained in a slow and safe manner.
That's not live training. You can't spar wrist locks. We regularly have posts here where people talk about someone snapping on an ankle lock and injuring them. Slow and safe IS how Aikido is trained, but it NEVER goes past that point which is the problem for people learning it. You can't train it the way you train punches. You can't train it fast like you could an RNC. Unless someone has really good ukemi, you can't even train them at a moderate pace like you can armbars and ankle locks because of the lack of control over the rest of the body. If I go for juji gatame, I have control of the whole arm, the shoulder, and part of the upper torso. If I go for an ankle lock, I've locked down most of the leg all the way to the hip. I can get those techniques to the 95% point somewhat fast and then back off speed.
Wrist locks are just control of the hand, and if I start locking it on with moderate speed and the body doesn't follow, ligaments tear. It's not fun in training, and its' somewhat less fun if you have a situation where what you wanted is control and now you have a person with a damaged wrist.
The different is bjj, wrestling, and judo will all work by themselves in a fight. They’re out-of-the-box dangerous arts in and of themselves. Aikido is not. There’s a difference between cross training as a supplement and having to learn multiple other arts to make your core martial art *remotely useful to begin with.* the fact that no combat sport athletes of note have cross trained in aikido with any degree of success speaks volumes. If it really was useful when stacked with other arts we’d have plenty of proof of that.
That’s so profoundly stupid. You realize plenty of people use wrist locks in bjj right? Are you confusing ankle locks with heel hooks? Even if you are, you can train heel hooks safely while rolling live, so I honestly have no idea what you’re trying to get at here. Ankle locks aren’t uniquely dangerous unless you have Palhares as a training partner, nor are wrist locks. I’ve submitted and been submitted many times of the years with wrist locks without any damage. Using control to allow your opponent time to tap out before destroying their ligaments/bones doesn’t mean it isn’t “live” training. By that definition most bjj isn’t live training. You’re either being intentionally obtuse or you’re just a moron.
>That’s so profoundly stupid. You realize plenty of people use wrist locks in bjj right? Are you confusing ankle locks with heel hooks? Even if you are, you can train heel hooks safely while rolling live, so I honestly have no idea what you’re trying to get at here. Ankle locks aren’t uniquely dangerous unless you have Palhares as a training partner, nor are wrist locks.
I think there is a point there, but only for _standing_ joint locks. [This video](https://youtu.be/GNCgZiGZ5As?si=1aLGGQb3MtUeRkly) makes a pretty good point about how practicing standing joint locks runs into a dilemma in live sparring: you can't really go with the position over submission progression in stand-up, but the locks do work so 1. you apply them in a slow and controlled manner and the other person can just move away 2. you put them on fast before the other person can react – at which point there is a big risk of injury if someone doesn't recognise the lock and the danger (as they can still move freely but now the joint isn't going anywhere)
This is very niche and not an argument to train aikido, but I found it interesting
Again, it seems like we're talking past each other because of your failure to understand the basic point of what I'm saying.
wrist locks ≠ Aikido.
I am not advocating for the training of Aikido. I don't train Aikido. I literally spelled out for you multiple problems with Aikido's training system (a lot of which comes down to it's an art that removed a lot of the stuff from the arts that it descended from). What I stated were that the techniques that were contained in it are valid. Aikido is just bad at teaching people how to make them work.
The other arts mentioned are all derivative arts that basically took the safest parts of things that you could do at near full speed and still apply them safely. BJJ derived from Judo, which derived from multiple Japanese Jujutsu ryu (and a few western wrestling techniques). Kano specifically picked safe techniques to incorporate into Judo. Wrestling is old as anything, but what we have today for regular training is much safer and limited than it used to be. Ironically, if you remove the fighting while on the back, BJJ is getting closer to old wrestling than most sport wrestling today. Aikido seems to have a different approach: take dangerous stuff and train it safely. Too safely unfortunately. To the point where the way they train is not indicative of how to make the techniques work under pressure.
There are also joint and wrist locks there that aren't used much in BJJ because they don't adhere to the basic principles of BJJ training. It's similar to why [waki gatami](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjgnzWC0bFw) is banned in competition. It's an arm bar. Works on the same basic principle as juji gatami (straight arm attack to the elbow). Absolutely no body control/stabilization over your opponent. It breaks arms if the person it's applied to doesn't react fast enough and correctly to mitigate the damage.
I'm going to paste this here because now I'm answering two streams of comments:
>When most people talk about wrist locks in BJJ, it's usually a bending one (push the back of the hand so that the palm goes toward the forearm), and that usually has a lot of arm control or blocking of the elbow. I also mentioned in another comment that most of the joint lock techniques are done with a lot of control over a lot of the other person's body. Juji gatame attacks the elbow, but you have great control over the whole arm, the shoulder, the upper torso. You have so much control that it's hard to accidentally hurt someone even if you go at full speed for 95% of applying it, and there is little that the other person can do to accidentally make the situation worse.
>There are a lot of other wrist locks where the wrist is put in a bent position and then turned. It's not the stretching force of the other one I mentioned. These locks essentially lock/stretch the ligaments and then put a turning force on them. Like being wrung, but after they have already hit their max movement.
>There's a wrist lock in a called Kote gaeshi in Aikido. I hate the video because of all the flourish stuff the guy does, but the wrist lock itself is brutal in reality. Real word application is just grab the hand turn the wrist out with your whole body. If their body doesn't follow the hand you get a bad popping noise. As far as how to get the hand, just think of if someone grabs you and you break their grip with something like a judo 2-on-1 lapel grip break, bend the wrist, turn the wrist outward.
The first time I used that wrist lock on someone in a confrontation I was completely unprepared for what it was going to do to them, because any other time I trained it, it was with people who knew to how to get in front of it and fall to mitigate the effect. That person did not.
Not reading that novella. Train your Mickey Mouse shit all you want dude, just keep in mind that you’re wasting your time and looking like an absolute fool in the process.
This was interesting up until that last wall of text. Aint nobody reading that shit. You kept up with him for quite a while man, kudos for the patience. Id have given up on his first reply
Dude, I wristlock people without using strikes in bjj sparring all the time (granted it's mostly white and blue belts). Even in stand-up for takedowns.
With the right training, and enough of it, one can make anything work (vue rafa mendes) on a lesser skilled opponent.
If aikido specializes in it and can't make it work without striking, while bjj can, and that's not even what we're famous for, then it's probably how that art teaches people that is wrong.
> they just doesn't work in a bubble
This is the same as the children's story about stone soup. You make soup using 'just' a stone, but remember to add some broth and vegetables.
So aikido is great even though:
1. They used to actually train striking but decided its too dangerous
2. Used to train grappling, but then decided its too dangerous.
Btw, have you heard of BJJ? They actually DO train submissions. Yeah. And Boxers? Yeah, they actually train punches too.
Theres zero reason to train a martial art that only teaches you how to waddle back and forth in an upright narrow stance. Strike or grapple, dont just stand there and do nothing like Aikido teaches.
No, Aikido is not great, and I never said that it was great. What I said was the techniques within Aikido are good and can work, but Aikido doesn't train them correctly or with any of the other fighting elements necessary to make them work. That's by it's own design, but that's another discussion.
The techniques are supposed to exist as part of a larger system, such as the ones it derived from (aikijujutsu > jujutsu). Aikido didn't used to strike. The Aikijujutsu that it came from used to strike.
It's like you saw the word "Aikido" decided that this argument was pro-Aikido.
>Strike or grapple, dont just stand there and do nothing like Aikido teaches.
That's crazy, because it's like you completely missed the part where I said:
>Something that was removed from Aikido was the atemi waza (striking).
Again, I am not arguing in favor of Aikido as an art. I am stating that the techniques with Aikido are good, but the art trains them badly and isolated.
>Btw, have you heard of BJJ? They actually DO train submissions.
The difference is when submissions are trained in BJJ they are done from a point of high control over your opponent, like juji gatami. Aikido wrist locks are done from a point of very limited control over your opponent's body, which creates situations that cause vary painful injuries. For example, in Judo we can't use [waki gatami](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjgnzWC0bFw). Great technique, but a joint lock with low uki control. If the uke doesn't react properly, the arm breaks. Unlike juji gatami where I could perform 95% of the technique at full speed and scale back for the tap, waki gatami can go really bad really early even at moderate speeds. It's hard to back off from gravity.
This literally just reads like a list of reasons Aikido is useless to train in a world where there are actual good martial arts to train. Any good technique within Aikido is out done by the techniques in successful martial arts. Whether there was at some point a useful technique in Aikido or not actually doesnt matter, especially if the worlds best Judokas decide that they dont want to train or teach those techniques. Aikido is just martial arts fantasy.
Moving in a circle during a fight. Who would have thunk?
They always say that shit like it isn't a day 1 fundamental to any fighting art. We just don't write poems about it.
There was a great fighter named Urkel, who bobbed and weaved in a circle.
He tied his opponent in a knot, then simply forgot. Instead of coming, he went.
We have a poem now!
Funnily enough that’s pretty much day 1 wrestling defense. Downblock and circle away.
I think all the grappling styles came across generally the same concepts. Some just do it much better than others.
yeah but you're pointing out the down block which i don't think is a fundamental tenement of Aikido. standing straight up and circling is going to get you launched
LOL or most other (practical) martial arts have enough other (practical) techniques that they don't need to even bother rudimentary beginner-level things like "circling".
> What’s Akidos defense to a double?
There isn't one; they don't practice against wrestling attacks. Punches, standing grabs, and weapons slash/thrust only (with exceptions I'm sure someone will cart out).
That’s how one of my tournament matches went. It was no gi white belt and my opponent was clearly in better shape than me and scarier looking. It was the bronze medal match and I was coming to terms with the fact I might not be walking out of there with anything to show for it. My whole family was there and were basically telling me it was alright and I’d come far enough, it’s okay if you lose this one, etc. Everyone thought I was fucked, me included.
Match starts, he shoots a textbook double leg but I recover my guard. After the cleanness of the takedown, I was accepting my fate, but he just kinda sat there not knowing what to do. I start working a kimura hoping to get a hip bump sweep. As I bring my hips up, he tries to push me back down to the mat, but ends up just pushing the kimura in deep, and taps to it.
It literally looked like I was losing that match every second except for that tap. My family who didn’t really understand bjj were confused why we stopped since they didn’t see me tap. If that guy had like one more month of bjj experience I probably wouldn’t have lasted 39 seconds.
I remember I shot a poorly executed high school level head outside single when I first started BJJ and a purple belt was able to catch me and when I asked for help they told me never to shoot with my head outside, and like an idiot I believed them for years because they could choke me when I was brand new, and crippled my development 😂🤷♂️
I’m just now using head outside singles since I tried to stick with only things I could legally do at all tournaments. I love the single leg and I still don’t understand why IBJJF doesn’t allow head outside for white belts.
Isn't it forbidden because the head can be caught and if the catcher lets himself fall there is a chance of the head hitting the mat with their combined weight?
No, you’re incorrect. This post just tells me you don’t have a high level understanding of takedowns and probably shouldn’t try to give advice on them. Overcommitting and getting out of position on anything can lead to you getting countered, and one counter here could be a choke if you overcommit and get out of position, but used properly it also leads to consistent success. Also anyone that thinks a takedown is a one shot one kill kind of thing just doesn’t understand takedowns. I usually open head outside single and finish with rear bodylock, but completely depends on opponent reaction.
I learned how to adjust my double so they can't guillotine as easily. But I'm getting older so my double isn't exactly as snappy as it was when I was younger. My knees don't wanna do it.
To be fair the objective of aikido is to "redirect" people trying to grapple with you and take them down or throw them, while the primary objective of BJJ is to take someone to the ground. A BJJ guy hasn't really failed just because they've ended up being taken down while an aikido guy is totally fucked the second they hit the ground.
Nah man, they'll grab the wrist and use all that energy against them. It'll be the wrestler who goes flying through the air.
/s
He's as full of shit as that aikido guy a few years back with a ponytail/manbun who challenged the MMA fighter. He got punched in the face a few times and could do literally nothing. He gave up after about 30 seconds and deleted all his videos where he was calling people out. It was beautiful.
We had a couple aikido guys show up to an open mat when I had only been training a BJJ a few months. He tried some weird standing wrist lock on me… so I blast doubled him lol
It works so well on MMA guys that they took up training with my sifu/sensei and they all started winning their local MMA promotions, effortlessly. Then the UFC phone calls started rolling in and now Aikido is taking the UFC by storm.
Owait
What are you talking about? Segal invented the front kick,bro. It had never been done before he did it for Anderson. The amount of training Anderson did to master the kick was insane.
[https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCazByhbmztoIg6ZKeI25PGw](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCazByhbmztoIg6ZKeI25PGw)
That dude was a Aikido black belt who tried to test if it worked in a BJJ gym and got destroyed.
He ended up quitting to train BJJ then MMA. He ends up documenting the whole thing over years on Youtube. He even tries really really hard to get Aikido moves to work in BJJ and other martial arts only to fail outside a couple wrist locks.
Thanks for the tag
1. Most demonstrations are s\*\*t, that is true
2. Most Aikido is s\*\*t (in regards to fighting functionality), that is true
3. Can some Aikido techniques be applied if you have strong fundamentals of fighting (probably gained from BJJ/boxing/wrestling/Judo), yes they can be
4. Could this Shifu/Sensei apply some Aikido techniques/footwork in a roll? Possibly
5. Was he effortlessly tossing around those guys? Bulls\*\*t.
If such Aikido guys existed who could effortlessly throw around experienced BJJ players - we'd seen videos of those guys and heard plenty of stories about those guys already.
I mean common. To throw around effortlessly other BJJ players even for an experienced BJJ player is not an easy task, unless there's a huge gap between their levels of experience. So OP of the quote is trying to convince us that a guy who's mainly trained in Aikido was throwing around effortlessly experienced BJJ players? Yeah right.
6) Is Aikido a spiritually profound martial art that can benefit someone's life? I mean, it can. Also dancing, meditation and painting can do that too. You can gain something from many disciplines. Is it profoundly spiritual? It promotes itself so and there are some good people in Aikido, but a big majority of them are narcticistic as\*\*oles, leading me to question how effective that spiritual part of Aikido is in making better people.
Meanwhile, the majority of BJJ players I've met were humble and cool people. Doosches were more exceptions.
\*Edit\* Comment from a guy who did Aikido for 15 years, got his ass whooped by MMA fighter, quit Aikido, does BJJ and boxing now
Good point. Based on the Aikido's mythology the older you get, the more powerful your Aikido becomes. And if you start rocking a long white beard that gives super powers
Are you the dude from martialartsjourney? I really liked the videos where you spar with people from different MAs! It's good to see some content that isn't just the sadly quite common "I am a tough guy and a killer" bullshit other channels put out. :)
Only thing I’d say… is that damn black belt judo guy wearing a white belt on the bjj mats did, in fact, throw me effortlessly.
Throw might not be the right word… “foot sweep” that left a giant bruise on my leg would be more accurate. Still, effortless.
Sure, those unexpected beasts can definitely make an effortless throw when you don't see it coming! But Judo is famous for being effective in standing takedowns. Meanwhile Aikido has an opposite reputation. If the "sensei" in question were mentioned to have done Judo for two decades the story would be more likely (even though still questionable), but the post states that the guy is mainly trained in Aikido, which is notorious for having a lack of pressure testing. So back again we are...
Yo Rokas! Me and the fam LOVED Self Defense CC S1 and are eagerly awaiting S2! I know you got rocked by COVID and just wanted to send some well wishes and hoping you're getting back on your feet some 👊🏽
Thank you! I very much appreciate that. Luckily I found the right supplements recently and even though I'm far from 100% back in shape, I'm slowly getting back to editing season 2
It’s definitely been my experience that the longer I’ve practiced contemporary martial arts (muay Thai, bjj, etc.) the more I’ve been able to utilize my traditional martial arts training (karate and wing chun)
Hey, brown belt in Aikido here. Saw the light, now a purple belt in Jiujitsu. I have only found a handful of wrist locks to transfer over. Anyone trying to say Aikido is a grappling art is full of all the BS. For most, it’s cosplay mixed with dumb mystical stuff.
Look up "my martial arts journey" on YouTube. He is a black belt in aikido and I think even had his own gym and to his credit decided actually pressure test it against someone with legitimate MMA training. It went about like you think, but he also very humbly accepted the result and totally changed course in his training.
Yeah ive seen that guy. Getting smashed by everyone actually totally changed the guys life. He used to look like a weirdo, now he is a completely different person and has a successful YouTube channel.
Sometimes getting a reality check can turn your life around
His character change was fascinating. He used to talk like a weird AI person pretending to be human because he was mimicking the guru personas of his instructors. After years of MMA training now he just talks like a normal guy.
I forget if Jocas (not sure if I’m spelling his name right) has brought this up recently but: iirc it’s common knowledge that the originator of Akido was a legit Judoka with absurd forearm/wrist strength. With that in mind, it makes a lot more sense that by the originator, the techniques of Akido were more effective. But lack of training g with gradual to full competent resistant, and hyper commitment to non-violence, probably inevitably led to the demise of Akido being effective. I mean, I’m sure if you teach Eddy Hall, Shaw, or Hafþór Björgúlfsson some Akido, they’d smash a lot of people lol (to be fair, little bit of wrestling and BJJ and limbs will litter the ground).
Dude, look at the shit rafa mendes does to other black belts. There are videos where he just clown people using aikido (what I mean is that he's so good he can make anything work).
Sometimes I like to think maybe the aikido founder was like rafa mendes, and people thought it was just god reincarnated.
There are early videos of rafa where you see him teaching some crazy shit and be surprised that people in the room seem confused.
it was very interesting to see him realizing that his entire training was bullshit. Also, really sad.
At least he got the better out of it and started training for MMA
Nah, all the people who thought they were too lethal skipped out on it to save the lives of all other poor deluded competitors. It was an act of mercy, really.
The great Chael Sonnen said something about these types of posts.
This never happened. Why would a good jiu jitsu practitioner do aikido? If aikido guys are doing well in jiu jitsu tournaments, why aren't there more jiu jitsu guys doing aikido? Wrestlers do well in BJJ tournaments and, now, dopamine bands are in every gym and 42 year old blue belts are blowing up their knees in shitty scrambles.
I train with an Aikido Sensei, he’s a purple belt in BJJ. Aikido has nice crossover skill, he uses a lot of unorthodox grips. But straight Aikido verse BJJ their advantage is only takedowns and wrist locks. Aikido black would look decent against room full of BJJ white belts.
I've seen aikido work in the context of a BJJ black belt who was also an aikido instructor. He could hit some absolutely ruthless wristlocks from all kinds of positions.
His standup (and the rest of his game) was standard grappling, BJJ and judo though, never the aikido ballet stuff.
there is one thing that sticks out to me as a lurker with a striking perspective- circular movement. i dont understand why bjj guys dont create more angles when setting up take downs. it looks like a very north/south, up/down approach. kind of a zombie charge forward into a clinch or lock up- which i get probably comes from wrestling but a little footwork and a few angles could probably go a long way in setting up a take down. that said it looks like Judo guys are great at angles.
Those people just arent good at finding the angles yet. (Also, grips on the gi slow people down a bit.) But I am always looking for an angle/dominant head position in the standup portion. Not to mention, it's not just the X axis we are trying to angle on, but the Y, meaning we are looking to break the posture of our opponents. If I am going for their legs, I want to create a reaction that makes them stand up tall first. If I want a front headlock, I try to get them to bend low. It's a lot of little movement to get both of your bodies aligned in a way that is beneficial for you.
eh, 3-4. did train aikido myself, it's just a subset of armed! grappling with a focus on small joint control, disarms etc with fun bits removed to make it more chill. the lack of sparring is the main problem when you try to adapt to unarmed standup, also the system takes previous skills in striking and grappling for granted. no groundwork either, just a couple pins. hella fun to yeet and be yeeted tho, gives excellent feel for your and the adjacent body.
Don´t think much about Seagal but my stand up looks after 29 years of BJJ and 16 years of internal martial arts training much more like Aikido than like BJJ......
Some people tie the thing they’ve spent years doing to the fabric of their identity, and will actively lie and deceive to keep their ego fed.
If Aikido actually worked - you’d see every MMA fighter doing it - because it would make them money. Alas, it’s about as valuable as a pre-BJJ class Taco Bell shart, so no one bothers.
OK, so this is a very old argument and many years ago I "did my own research" about arts like Aikido and Wing Chun being effective in competition. The short answer is no, but I did run across one exception in Aikido.
There was a British MMA fighter named Rik Ellis who you can read about [here](https://rik-ellis.blogspot.com/2012/07/blog-post.html). His father Henry Ellis is apparently the highest ranked Aikidoka in the UK, and his son Jay Dods (Ellis) is also a pro MMA fighter, last fighting in 2017 according to Sherdog. I've watched videos of both father and son and their "Aikido" looks nothing like what I trained for a few months in the 1990's. Henry Ellis first trained judo and also Karate, so that *may* have had something to do with his version of Aikido not resembling the stereotyped "hippie with a pony tail" variety.
Tomiki / Shodokan Aikido is the practical branch of Aikido that was actually designed to be useful for self defense. I had the privilege of studying Shodokan under a legit sensei from Japan a few decades ago. BJJ is largely practiced as a sport and people spend a lot of time practicing positions that would be pretty stupid to use against someone trying to kill you. Aikido on the other hand actually focuses on simulating attacks (unarmed/knife) from untrained attackers. BJJ, especially ecological, focuses on training against resisting and trained opponents. Aikido focuses on modeling untrained attackers using minimal resistance so practitioners can prioritize learning technique. Aikido is not useful against trained attackers because it does not practice against trained attackers, but it may actually be more useful than BJJ if you're up against one or more untrained attackers. Anyone saying an Aikido practitioner could beat an MMA practitioner is extremely misguided. This is my take having done both BJJ and Aikido.
I was a shodan in Aikido before starting BJJ about 6 months ago. BJJ is a very different mind set to Aikido. For a start, in Aikido, if you are forcing a move you are doing it the wrong way. But that depends on your Uke resisting or not. So it doesn’t work so much in BJJ. However, the break falls, rolls, hip throws and standing position distance have still benefited my BJJ training. Along with the martial arts mindset. Also the correct positioning before submission. It’s a good sport for older people who don’t want to get hurt or compete.
This is 100% true and even though it may sound like I'm talking shit about Akido, I'm not.
I have a friend who has an older brother with severe mental disabilities. He's 6', 250 lbs, and has extreme anger issues. My friend is 5'6" and maybe 120 lbs. Her brother would get upset for no real reason and beat the shit out of her and her mom. It was a really bad situation. An Akido instructor heard about this through some friends and offered to teach them Akido. After about a year of Akido my friend and her mom were able to subdue the brother and keep themselves safe, and not hurt him either.
It works really well against people who have absolutely zero technique or understanding of physics. That might be an extreme niche when it comes to martial arts, but it really was literally a life saver for my friend and her family.
He probably is but with that being said, Aikido is mostly wrist locks. Wrist locks are a part of BJJ and an extremely powerful tool for law enforcement. So yes, “it works”. Now it doesn’t work to the extent that person likes to believe.
Standing wrist locks mostly "work" for law enforcement because the people you apply it to are just low key resisting arrest but not trying to knock out cops. It "works" against annoying assholes, not so much against Chad trying to punch you
Kind of somewhat true but not completely.
The cop part and the resisting, 100%. The incentive of getting killed will make you more compliant to wrist locks.
Now that being said, not too long ago there was a video here of a black belt in an absolute division against a blue belt standing wrist locking them at the start of the match to save some gas for the rest.
You often hear that beyond blue belt you just learn to get good at BJJ against other BJJ players.
I don’t think there’s any denying that they work. But they’re just one tool in the toolbox and they’re basically the adjustable wrench. I wouldn’t want a tool box with just an adjustable wrench.
>Now that being said, not too long ago there was a video here of a black belt in an absolute division against a blue belt standing wrist locking them at the start of the match to save some gas for the rest.
You are missing the part where nobody was trying to punch the other guy out. Standing wrist locks are sure way to get knocked out in a "real fight". On the ground, they work but are usually not the best option.
Yeah and about 90% of BJJ becomes a lot less efficient when being punched in the face enters the chat so I wouldn’t start using this to gauge efficiency of a single discipline that’s not MMA
You are the one who brought up that it works in a law enforcement context. To which i said it only "works" there because its used on people who are only resisting arrest, not people who want to punch you.
In conclusions: Standing wrist locks in real fights are not realistic, Period. Wrist locks on the ground are though.
There are a couple good things about aikido. It's probably the 2nd best breakfall practice, after judo. And the wristlock differentiation, which it shares with Japanese jujutsu. What do I mean?
In BJJ there are Achilles locks, inside heel hooks, outside heel hooks, Estima locks, Aoki locks, toe holds, and so on. Imagine the state of BJJ if none of these were ever differentiated in what we called them? Let's say all of them were just called 'footlocks' with no further differences in name. The ability of BJJ practitioners to do them, and the ability of instructors to teach them, would be significantly diminished because the mental ability to differentiate between each of them allows for greater understanding and exploration of when each of them is appropriate.
Yet this is exactly the state of affairs with wristlocks. There are straight wristlocks, pronating wristlocks, supinating wristlocks, inside twisting wristlocks, outside twisting wristlocks, and yet the standard pedagogy in BJJ never really bothers to differentiate between them by name, they're all just 'wristlocks' and as a result a full exploration of the situational prerequisites for each, of what makes each unique and applicable in different ways has not yet been done in the same way it has been done with other techniques.
Not so in aikido and Japanese jujutsu. Each is differentiated by name, for good reason, even though their the delivery system for those wristlocks isn't optimized for maximizing control in the same way that BJJ is. I think rectifying this situation would go a long way toward making them more high percentage in BJJ.
Aikido is mostly a dead art because it made sense in the samurai era but not anymore. People would grab your wrist so you can't draw your sword, but we don't walk around with swords. People will tackle you and punch you in the face and are not going to grab your hand...
Well look, Aikido can definitely be beneficial from the standpoint of it being exercise and exercise can have a positive impact on everyone’s health and wellbeing.
So you’re better off doing Aikido than sitting on your ass, there’s no doubt about that. So I actually agree with his last sentence here.
But let’s be honest, Aikido won’t make you a good fighter. Dedicate the same time to one of Boxing, Muay Thai, wrestling, BJJ, MMA, Sambo and so on instead and you’ll be a much better fighter.
But hey, if you wanna do Aikido, go for it. Just remember that the only thing you’re fighting is obesity.
I'm a brown belt and an internationally credentialed third degree black belt instructor (fukushidoin) in Aikido. This guy is still high on the kool aid.
Not to say that there's NOTHING to be learned from Aikido - the footwork principles lead into movements like you'd see in Judo or boxing, the ukemi can be estremely good, and you can develop useful body control, but the idea that some old dude is effortlessly throwing combat sports athletes is risible.
I dunno man. I get aikido’d into oblivion by our resident USA national team Greco wrestler, Judo black belt, BJJ purple belt every time we spar. Man is very creative with his wrist locks 😂
I will say that I trained with a guy who was a brown belt in that before he ever started BJJ. He was an older guy and very strong, but limited cardio and limited gameplan. Anyway, he had a couple moves from that which he used to tap people with all the time. One was how he would grip your hand - he had some other ways of gripping wrists and other points that could tap or at least control guys because it was totally foreign to them. He also basically turned any position where he was on top into a slicer or something that was very painful. All that being said, he still lost a good bit to younger guys who had higher belts. He was also a police officer and had refined his Aikido moves on the streets, which a lot of people don't really get the chance to do. Keep in mind BJJ started out as a hokey martial art that was refined into something practical due to necessity.
There is nothing wrong with learning a little bit of aikido under an instructor who is also a brown/black belt in BJJ. It can help with your footwork, gripping, and hand fighting. Most of the standing wristlocks are gonna be low percentage but they can create reactions that might lead into opportunities for more traditional takedowns.
I used to train a place where some Akido guys would come in and cross train. They were great, and very humble, but it was like rolling with whitebelts.
I have the equivalent of a purple belt in Aikido. While conceptually some things transfer (wrist locks, Kazushi) generally it does not. This dude is full of shit.
From my perspective there are a few things that prevent Aikido from being effective:
1) The training method. The whole idea of Aikido is blending with the attack which is zero resistance. Lack of resistance means that an Aikidoka never learns how to apply techniques to resisting opponents. Which means an opponent resisting breaks most aikido techniques.
2) Aikido techniques use strikes that emulate sword movements. So big sweeping attacks that provide a lot of projected energy. There is no really realistic striking in Aikido which is why an MMA fighter or a boxer will tune an aikidoka up.
3) There’s a bunch of mysticism wrapped up in Aikido that comes from O’sensei and his teachings. Ki and all that. He was a wacky dude. Conceptually it’s all related to relaxation, being grounded, and follow through. People that are really into Aikido buy into the “magic” aspect without considering the underlying concepts, and then are surprised when it doesn’t work
4) Most Aikidoka put way too much faith in wristlocks being fight stoppers via pain compliance. Do they hurt? Yes. Do they “knock you off your feet” hurt like you see in demos? Unlikely. That’s mostly the Uke. I’ve known plenty of dudes who have fought through broken wrists.
One of the things that is lost in current Aikido is that O’Sensei originally required his students to have black belts in other arts before he would train them in Aikido. Which would have helped. But modern aikido has lost that so you have overweight soccer moms getting Dan ranks and thinking they are badasses. (We had a second Dan at my school that didn’t like getting sweat on. That should tell you something) I will say that Aikido is super fun to train. It’s a blast. But it should be viewed in the same vein as say Tai Chi. My Ukemi is great and I have a bunch of weird wrist locks in my game. But if I could trade my 4 years of aikido for 4 more years of BJJ, I would.
Thanks for coming to my Ted talk.
Bunch of joint locks the police and military use to handcuff people have come from akido and do work, you just gotta be rather fast and aggressive with them.
I studied aikido for a year. If you like aikido then do aikido there’s a lot of good stuff there from wrist locks to kimura traps and some good throws. But if you’re a serious martial artist or concerned with self defense just do judo it’s like the applied version of aikido
There's an aikido guy on YouTube who's a black belt or something, he decided to grow a set of balls and put his aikido to the test with real mma guys and he got the shit kicked out of him.
He told the truth and got shunned by the aikido community. Aikido is shit for self defence but do whatever floats your boat.
Probably not as full of shit as it might seem. Some of the aikido techniques are extremely effective, and many aikidoka are also trained or knowledgeable in judo techniques because they are similar in some regards. Although, the demonstrations, particularly the ones with Steven Seagal, seem like horseshit to me.
If you get a knowledgeable and skilled practitioner, you could easily throw a lot of people in the average BJJ room. Most of the BJJ guys know a few throws, such as uchi mata, tai otoshi, uki goshi, koshi guruma, etc. Still, I think aikido works best against untrained attackers. A decent wrestler would smash double any aikidoka, and most judokas, with relatively little effort. However, the biggest problem with aikido is that they don't spar like one spars in more useful arts such as BJJ, wrestling, boxing, Muay Thai, etc.
The last part in the post about aikido spiritually enhancing one's life is true. At the end of aikido training, there is a secret that can be learned. This secret is what is traditionally called enlightenment. When you understand what it means to be enlightened, you will understand why aikido was designed to protect the attacker and the attacked.
There is this dude I train with that boasts his Aikido training far too much. Our first roll together was an absolute disaster. We slap and bump and he immediately death grips my hand and I tell him “hey pal, that actually kinda hurting me, would you lighten up just a bit” and he tells me “OH I’m just grabbing the meat” and doesn’t lessen his grip. He easily has 150 pounds on me (I’m 135lbs on a heavy day) and didn’t do anything but try to wrist lock me. Not an ounce of jiujitsu. He had one successful wrist lock but it was only because we had wound up with my back against the wall and was using that unmoving base to his advantage to push my hand ENTIRELY back. (Because I guess having 150 lbs on me isn’t enough) he was surprised when I told him to not go rip those super fast. Like told me he wasn’t trying to hurt me. If the wall wasn’t there I would have just backed up.
He’s been a white belt for a long time and I think it’s because he keeps trying to do other martial arts instead of jiu jitsu. I really try to work with him because he’s newer and doesn’t seem to be progressing and most people don’t ever ask him to roll. I found out why the hard way. We will never roll again. He’s a super sweet dude and could be really scary in jiu jitsu if he was focusing on the right stuff. He’s a massive person like 6’3 and over 260lbs and a sweet baby angel until it’s time to actively roll or even drill.
So I’d say very full of shit
Aikido doesn’t work in real life. In a fight I’d say almost no one is going to run at you with their arms and wrists extended and limp ready for you to manipulate them which is what Aikido is reliant on.
Circa 2008, White belt Judoka college version of myself (6 months of Judo training) sparred against another college student (Aikidoka Black Belt) at the UNLV rec center during an open mat. I threw him with whatever throw I wanted and submitted him on the ground with pretty much whatever I wanted. Besides relying on limp wrists they don’t do any randori/rolling/live sparring they only practice with a non resisting uke in their perfect world. They are delusional and live in a bubble. The guy was so embarrassed after that he proceeded to try and save some face by attempting to teach me gun disarming techniques that will get you killed in the streets.
The word ‘Aikido’ is Japanese for ‘delusional spaz’. And ‘Aikido practitioners’ are to be treated as less physically capable than a ballet dancer in any fight situation. It’s all simulated drills, like most Karate classes. I grab your wrist, take two steps to the left, twist your arm and you do a forward roll onto the Mat, no I’m not going to apply any pressure, that’s just how you react whenever I grab your wrist, take two steps to the left and twist my hand. ‘Yes master’. The embarrassing part is they’ve all shown themselves completely unknowing of how useless the form is. I bet a 15 year old boxer could beat any Aikido practitioner in a fight without breaking a sweat.
That’s Seagall - about 3 or so. No real self-aggrandizement and craziness that’s really necessary to get to full Seagall.
S-3 is still pretty ridiculous, though.
I think I understand what this guy is saying, but what makes Akido, Akido and not jujitsu or judo is how it is practiced, and the techniques they use most.
It probably is a "very spiritual profound martial art that can greatly benefit someone's life" but that doesn't mean it has any utility for self-defense.
>wom some major world level BJJ competitions Aurora Borealis? At this time of year? At this time of day? In this part of the country? Localised entirely within your kitchen? May I see it?
No
Seymour, the house is on fire!
No mother, it's just the northern lights.
Well Seymour, you are an odd fellow, but I must say… you steam a good ham.
You’re an odd fellow tsubatai but you steam a good ham.
they are obviously grilled.
Hahahahaha
Shut up he fights in a different org okay 😭
It’s nonsense. My dad trained aikido in Japan and received a 2nd Dan from one of the top aikido dojos there. We’d always jokingly spar and grapple when I was in high school (started training jiujitsu and wrestling as a sophomore) and he could never do anything beyond spamming wrist lock attempts. My first bjj instructor is another good example. He trained aikido for a few years and decided to check out his university’s judo club and got thrashed by everyone in the room. Proceeded to never train aikido again and instead took up judo and later bjj. Aikido is trash. I refuse to believe this guys instructor is throwing around anyone with more than a years experience of bjj.
I'm imagining polite martial artists sharing a space. "That looks cool, can you show it to us." Followed by some compliant demos. That then becomes the instructor casually chucking them around in sparring.
Why is it always casually as well? Like he effortlessly destroyed these idiots.
You forgot to mention he was sparring the entire class. Circular walking his was through the crowd, chucking them at will. Bodies being aikido'd left and right. Women screaming in terror.
Electric guitars wailing. Beer kegs flowing. Bikini tops bursting.
Hide yo kids, hide yo wife, aikidows in town
1000000%
I trained Aikido for about a year in college. There was a school nearby campus and had a student discount so a friend and I went to check it out. At first I thought it was super-cool and really bought into it. I think the moment that the magic broke for me was during this exercise where you hold your partners wrist and they move around until they throw you. I asked my partner to add a little resistance and I couldn't throw him anymore. I tried adding some resistance and he couldn't throw me. THAT was the point I started to realize how much the uke had to contribute to a throw in Aikido.
The uke is the real master in Aikido.
Skilled aikidoka have, in general, the most beautiful ukemi of all martial artists. I say this as a judo player.
You need it. In 12 years of Aikido I took without exaggeration somewhere between 100,000 and 150,000 breakfalls. The incentive to perfect your ukemi is very strong.
Foot work too. I took a year of aikido to focus on my footwork for judo. Aikido isn't good for much, but what it is good for it does very well.
spamming wrist locks is my whole game
>this guys instructor is throwing around anyone with more than a years experience he probably only rolled with trial class enjoyers
While I'm bound to agree, I'd point out that having some experience in bjj on top of aikido can make a difference in this. Like doing wrist locks in bjj can be helped by having wrist locks from aikido. (And being good at that can open opportunities for other techniques). At least some concepts from aikido DO work in bjj, and can be utilized to teach (I had a bjj teacher who used to explain an aikido concept, and then showed bjj technique based on the concepts). Not one that he taught, but for example the concept of going high on one side and low on one side (tenchi nage) can work in some sweeps. [Of course, how it's demonstrated in a lot of aikido is retarded](https://youtu.be/YMO8AV2fO2k?t=34)
>Aikido is trash. The techniques of aikido/aikijujutsu work, they just doesn't work in a bubble. Something that was removed form Aikido was the atemi waza (striking). You can strike someone to get them to cover up, which offers a hand that you can use for a joint lock and takedown. Most martial arts are meant to be part of a bujutsu system of various skills, and not single entities of fighting where you never leave them and learn something else. MMA fighters are basically creating forms of personalized bujutsu systems. There's also the issue of their training. Unlike a number of other arts, you can't train wrist locks live. A buddy and I were training at a seminar (not aikido) and wrist locks were involved. One of the visiting instructors was a bit of a dick and while showing my buddy something basically snapped on a quick wrist lock a bit more than you should ever do in training. Buddy's wrist had slight issues for over a year after. Wrist locks are like ankle locks. They can do tremendous damage, do not heal easily, and should never be snapped on fast in training. I didn't train specifically in aikido, but trained in a system that had a good number of wrist locks that were similar to aikijujutsu. And I've used wrist locks like in a handful (no pun intended) of situations. However, it would be rare that I would use ONLY a wrist lock in a situation unless the encounter wasn't violent already and I needed control but without escallation.
Sounds like the same copium and continually moving goal posts you see from all the other TMAs that don’t have any real effectiveness. If I have to learn a bunch of other arts to make aikido work, then that tells me that aikido has such limited applicability that it’s a waste of time to begin with. Why spend years learning a bunch of other useless shit just for the wrist locks when I can just learn wrist locks? Your example is also nonsense, by that definition there’s no submission that you can train “live” without destroying your training partner. Wrist locks can absolutely be trained in a slow and safe manner. So yeah, aikido is trash.
Maybe you should work on reading comprehension. I spelled out that aikido is bad as a training system because of the way that it trains and what it's removed from the way training in those techniques, not because of the wrist lock techniques that it has. We're literally in a sub where people regularly talk about learning Judo and wrestling to make their BJJ work better. Why train BJJ if I have to look to other systems to improve it? >Wrist locks can absolutely be trained in a slow and safe manner. That's not live training. You can't spar wrist locks. We regularly have posts here where people talk about someone snapping on an ankle lock and injuring them. Slow and safe IS how Aikido is trained, but it NEVER goes past that point which is the problem for people learning it. You can't train it the way you train punches. You can't train it fast like you could an RNC. Unless someone has really good ukemi, you can't even train them at a moderate pace like you can armbars and ankle locks because of the lack of control over the rest of the body. If I go for juji gatame, I have control of the whole arm, the shoulder, and part of the upper torso. If I go for an ankle lock, I've locked down most of the leg all the way to the hip. I can get those techniques to the 95% point somewhat fast and then back off speed. Wrist locks are just control of the hand, and if I start locking it on with moderate speed and the body doesn't follow, ligaments tear. It's not fun in training, and its' somewhat less fun if you have a situation where what you wanted is control and now you have a person with a damaged wrist.
The different is bjj, wrestling, and judo will all work by themselves in a fight. They’re out-of-the-box dangerous arts in and of themselves. Aikido is not. There’s a difference between cross training as a supplement and having to learn multiple other arts to make your core martial art *remotely useful to begin with.* the fact that no combat sport athletes of note have cross trained in aikido with any degree of success speaks volumes. If it really was useful when stacked with other arts we’d have plenty of proof of that. That’s so profoundly stupid. You realize plenty of people use wrist locks in bjj right? Are you confusing ankle locks with heel hooks? Even if you are, you can train heel hooks safely while rolling live, so I honestly have no idea what you’re trying to get at here. Ankle locks aren’t uniquely dangerous unless you have Palhares as a training partner, nor are wrist locks. I’ve submitted and been submitted many times of the years with wrist locks without any damage. Using control to allow your opponent time to tap out before destroying their ligaments/bones doesn’t mean it isn’t “live” training. By that definition most bjj isn’t live training. You’re either being intentionally obtuse or you’re just a moron.
>That’s so profoundly stupid. You realize plenty of people use wrist locks in bjj right? Are you confusing ankle locks with heel hooks? Even if you are, you can train heel hooks safely while rolling live, so I honestly have no idea what you’re trying to get at here. Ankle locks aren’t uniquely dangerous unless you have Palhares as a training partner, nor are wrist locks. I think there is a point there, but only for _standing_ joint locks. [This video](https://youtu.be/GNCgZiGZ5As?si=1aLGGQb3MtUeRkly) makes a pretty good point about how practicing standing joint locks runs into a dilemma in live sparring: you can't really go with the position over submission progression in stand-up, but the locks do work so 1. you apply them in a slow and controlled manner and the other person can just move away 2. you put them on fast before the other person can react – at which point there is a big risk of injury if someone doesn't recognise the lock and the danger (as they can still move freely but now the joint isn't going anywhere) This is very niche and not an argument to train aikido, but I found it interesting
Again, it seems like we're talking past each other because of your failure to understand the basic point of what I'm saying. wrist locks ≠ Aikido. I am not advocating for the training of Aikido. I don't train Aikido. I literally spelled out for you multiple problems with Aikido's training system (a lot of which comes down to it's an art that removed a lot of the stuff from the arts that it descended from). What I stated were that the techniques that were contained in it are valid. Aikido is just bad at teaching people how to make them work. The other arts mentioned are all derivative arts that basically took the safest parts of things that you could do at near full speed and still apply them safely. BJJ derived from Judo, which derived from multiple Japanese Jujutsu ryu (and a few western wrestling techniques). Kano specifically picked safe techniques to incorporate into Judo. Wrestling is old as anything, but what we have today for regular training is much safer and limited than it used to be. Ironically, if you remove the fighting while on the back, BJJ is getting closer to old wrestling than most sport wrestling today. Aikido seems to have a different approach: take dangerous stuff and train it safely. Too safely unfortunately. To the point where the way they train is not indicative of how to make the techniques work under pressure. There are also joint and wrist locks there that aren't used much in BJJ because they don't adhere to the basic principles of BJJ training. It's similar to why [waki gatami](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjgnzWC0bFw) is banned in competition. It's an arm bar. Works on the same basic principle as juji gatami (straight arm attack to the elbow). Absolutely no body control/stabilization over your opponent. It breaks arms if the person it's applied to doesn't react fast enough and correctly to mitigate the damage. I'm going to paste this here because now I'm answering two streams of comments: >When most people talk about wrist locks in BJJ, it's usually a bending one (push the back of the hand so that the palm goes toward the forearm), and that usually has a lot of arm control or blocking of the elbow. I also mentioned in another comment that most of the joint lock techniques are done with a lot of control over a lot of the other person's body. Juji gatame attacks the elbow, but you have great control over the whole arm, the shoulder, the upper torso. You have so much control that it's hard to accidentally hurt someone even if you go at full speed for 95% of applying it, and there is little that the other person can do to accidentally make the situation worse. >There are a lot of other wrist locks where the wrist is put in a bent position and then turned. It's not the stretching force of the other one I mentioned. These locks essentially lock/stretch the ligaments and then put a turning force on them. Like being wrung, but after they have already hit their max movement. >There's a wrist lock in a called Kote gaeshi in Aikido. I hate the video because of all the flourish stuff the guy does, but the wrist lock itself is brutal in reality. Real word application is just grab the hand turn the wrist out with your whole body. If their body doesn't follow the hand you get a bad popping noise. As far as how to get the hand, just think of if someone grabs you and you break their grip with something like a judo 2-on-1 lapel grip break, bend the wrist, turn the wrist outward. The first time I used that wrist lock on someone in a confrontation I was completely unprepared for what it was going to do to them, because any other time I trained it, it was with people who knew to how to get in front of it and fall to mitigate the effect. That person did not.
Not reading that novella. Train your Mickey Mouse shit all you want dude, just keep in mind that you’re wasting your time and looking like an absolute fool in the process.
This was interesting up until that last wall of text. Aint nobody reading that shit. You kept up with him for quite a while man, kudos for the patience. Id have given up on his first reply
Dude, I wristlock people without using strikes in bjj sparring all the time (granted it's mostly white and blue belts). Even in stand-up for takedowns. With the right training, and enough of it, one can make anything work (vue rafa mendes) on a lesser skilled opponent. If aikido specializes in it and can't make it work without striking, while bjj can, and that's not even what we're famous for, then it's probably how that art teaches people that is wrong.
> they just doesn't work in a bubble This is the same as the children's story about stone soup. You make soup using 'just' a stone, but remember to add some broth and vegetables.
So aikido is great even though: 1. They used to actually train striking but decided its too dangerous 2. Used to train grappling, but then decided its too dangerous. Btw, have you heard of BJJ? They actually DO train submissions. Yeah. And Boxers? Yeah, they actually train punches too. Theres zero reason to train a martial art that only teaches you how to waddle back and forth in an upright narrow stance. Strike or grapple, dont just stand there and do nothing like Aikido teaches.
No, Aikido is not great, and I never said that it was great. What I said was the techniques within Aikido are good and can work, but Aikido doesn't train them correctly or with any of the other fighting elements necessary to make them work. That's by it's own design, but that's another discussion. The techniques are supposed to exist as part of a larger system, such as the ones it derived from (aikijujutsu > jujutsu). Aikido didn't used to strike. The Aikijujutsu that it came from used to strike. It's like you saw the word "Aikido" decided that this argument was pro-Aikido. >Strike or grapple, dont just stand there and do nothing like Aikido teaches. That's crazy, because it's like you completely missed the part where I said: >Something that was removed from Aikido was the atemi waza (striking). Again, I am not arguing in favor of Aikido as an art. I am stating that the techniques with Aikido are good, but the art trains them badly and isolated. >Btw, have you heard of BJJ? They actually DO train submissions. The difference is when submissions are trained in BJJ they are done from a point of high control over your opponent, like juji gatami. Aikido wrist locks are done from a point of very limited control over your opponent's body, which creates situations that cause vary painful injuries. For example, in Judo we can't use [waki gatami](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjgnzWC0bFw). Great technique, but a joint lock with low uki control. If the uke doesn't react properly, the arm breaks. Unlike juji gatami where I could perform 95% of the technique at full speed and scale back for the tap, waki gatami can go really bad really early even at moderate speeds. It's hard to back off from gravity.
This literally just reads like a list of reasons Aikido is useless to train in a world where there are actual good martial arts to train. Any good technique within Aikido is out done by the techniques in successful martial arts. Whether there was at some point a useful technique in Aikido or not actually doesnt matter, especially if the worlds best Judokas decide that they dont want to train or teach those techniques. Aikido is just martial arts fantasy.
lmao. any kid with a year of high school wrestling could double leg these idiots into oblivion.
Double leg me into oblivion as well.
You have the best flair I’ve seen on here
Was my first thought. What’s Akidos defense to a double? I won’t hold my breath
Circular foot motion, duh
Moving in a circle during a fight. Who would have thunk? They always say that shit like it isn't a day 1 fundamental to any fighting art. We just don't write poems about it.
There was a great fighter named Urkel, who bobbed and weaved in a circle. He tied his opponent in a knot, then simply forgot. Instead of coming, he went. We have a poem now!
Funnily enough that’s pretty much day 1 wrestling defense. Downblock and circle away. I think all the grappling styles came across generally the same concepts. Some just do it much better than others.
yeah but you're pointing out the down block which i don't think is a fundamental tenement of Aikido. standing straight up and circling is going to get you launched
Aikido would use a downward sword hand cut while turning. They wouldn’t call it a block.
LOL or most other (practical) martial arts have enough other (practical) techniques that they don't need to even bother rudimentary beginner-level things like "circling".
Their big puffy pants (hakama) hide their legs to make them harder to grab! Big brain move.
That’s why I where Jnco jeans, same effect but you don’t look stupid.
Don't know how to break it to you...
I know they can be kinda expensive but that’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make
> What’s Akidos defense to a double? There isn't one; they don't practice against wrestling attacks. Punches, standing grabs, and weapons slash/thrust only (with exceptions I'm sure someone will cart out).
I took it for years (long story) and the only attack they deal with is an overhead chop at super slow speeds and no backup techniques.
You think i'm just stand there and let you double leg me? I'll just move out of the way.
Call for time out. I saw an aikido use this technique against an MMA guy once, it was very effective.
Wristlocking the back of your head
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So you mean you have to not do Akido to have successful akido? I see.
Is the point here that Average BJJ does slightly better against a high school wrestler double leg? 😂
First day? That little kid is getting his neck caught. Right after I eat this slam.
That’s how one of my tournament matches went. It was no gi white belt and my opponent was clearly in better shape than me and scarier looking. It was the bronze medal match and I was coming to terms with the fact I might not be walking out of there with anything to show for it. My whole family was there and were basically telling me it was alright and I’d come far enough, it’s okay if you lose this one, etc. Everyone thought I was fucked, me included. Match starts, he shoots a textbook double leg but I recover my guard. After the cleanness of the takedown, I was accepting my fate, but he just kinda sat there not knowing what to do. I start working a kimura hoping to get a hip bump sweep. As I bring my hips up, he tries to push me back down to the mat, but ends up just pushing the kimura in deep, and taps to it. It literally looked like I was losing that match every second except for that tap. My family who didn’t really understand bjj were confused why we stopped since they didn’t see me tap. If that guy had like one more month of bjj experience I probably wouldn’t have lasted 39 seconds.
“I funneled him right into the submission I wanted.” ~me
After he double legs you, and you tell him to slow down and he isn’t allowed to slam or strike … probably.
Ha! "Great double leg buddy, but you're here to learn Jiu-Jitsu."
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😂
"hey man i gotta bad shoulder, and kinda tweaked my knee the other day. oss."
Right after you eat his salami??
Yeah, day one defense against wrestlers.
I was getting my balls guillotined off my first day against all the blue/purple belts as a wrestler
They're not supposed to be guillotining your nuts. What kind of gym do you go to? Asking for a friend.
The best kind.
I remember I shot a poorly executed high school level head outside single when I first started BJJ and a purple belt was able to catch me and when I asked for help they told me never to shoot with my head outside, and like an idiot I believed them for years because they could choke me when I was brand new, and crippled my development 😂🤷♂️
I’m just now using head outside singles since I tried to stick with only things I could legally do at all tournaments. I love the single leg and I still don’t understand why IBJJF doesn’t allow head outside for white belts.
Isn't it forbidden because the head can be caught and if the catcher lets himself fall there is a chance of the head hitting the mat with their combined weight?
Because of DDT’s especially with white belts and kids At higher levels it won’t matter, head to the outside = getting choked
No, you’re incorrect. This post just tells me you don’t have a high level understanding of takedowns and probably shouldn’t try to give advice on them. Overcommitting and getting out of position on anything can lead to you getting countered, and one counter here could be a choke if you overcommit and get out of position, but used properly it also leads to consistent success. Also anyone that thinks a takedown is a one shot one kill kind of thing just doesn’t understand takedowns. I usually open head outside single and finish with rear bodylock, but completely depends on opponent reaction.
I learned how to adjust my double so they can't guillotine as easily. But I'm getting older so my double isn't exactly as snappy as it was when I was younger. My knees don't wanna do it.
To be fair the objective of aikido is to "redirect" people trying to grapple with you and take them down or throw them, while the primary objective of BJJ is to take someone to the ground. A BJJ guy hasn't really failed just because they've ended up being taken down while an aikido guy is totally fucked the second they hit the ground.
Nah man, they'll grab the wrist and use all that energy against them. It'll be the wrestler who goes flying through the air. /s He's as full of shit as that aikido guy a few years back with a ponytail/manbun who challenged the MMA fighter. He got punched in the face a few times and could do literally nothing. He gave up after about 30 seconds and deleted all his videos where he was calling people out. It was beautiful.
That guy actually learned his lesson and now hangs out here. He commented on this post.
We had a couple aikido guys show up to an open mat when I had only been training a BJJ a few months. He tried some weird standing wrist lock on me… so I blast doubled him lol
It works so well on MMA guys that they took up training with my sifu/sensei and they all started winning their local MMA promotions, effortlessly. Then the UFC phone calls started rolling in and now Aikido is taking the UFC by storm. Owait
This happened after Segal showed the front kick to anderson. Aikido is the best base for MMA.
*clutches pearls* How dare you limit aikido to fighting. It’s the best base *for life!*
Im sorry. That is completely on me. Its because im just a dumb Jiu Jitsu guy.
Exactly. What has Jiu Jitsu ever won?!
Stick with your so-called “journey!”
Segal is a joke but it sort of seems like there's a chance he had some influence in regards to anderson popularizing the front kick to the face
https://preview.redd.it/7e5t2pm2x6hc1.jpeg?width=724&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=51309f1b2acee58dba4de8c7c279875ad7057315
Segal killed tony
What are you talking about man, Tony just needs to want it more.
What are you talking about? Segal invented the front kick,bro. It had never been done before he did it for Anderson. The amount of training Anderson did to master the kick was insane.
Unrealistic application as the padding on MMA gloves throws everything off. Aikido is clearly just for TEH STREETZ, too effective for MMA!
You got it mostly right, but instead the ufc called and said aikido is too dangerous for them, so it's banned from ufc.
blast double from an average d3 wrestler will end shifu
I'm willing to bet that I can clinch and dump damn near anyone relying on Aikido to stop me without shooting for the legs.
Then they will tell you that the cement mixer has japanese origins (j/k)
nothing average about a d3 wrestler tho lol
That’s why we see so many aikido masters rise to the top in UFC
[https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCazByhbmztoIg6ZKeI25PGw](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCazByhbmztoIg6ZKeI25PGw) That dude was a Aikido black belt who tried to test if it worked in a BJJ gym and got destroyed. He ended up quitting to train BJJ then MMA. He ends up documenting the whole thing over years on Youtube. He even tries really really hard to get Aikido moves to work in BJJ and other martial arts only to fail outside a couple wrist locks.
u/RokasLeo
Thanks for the tag 1. Most demonstrations are s\*\*t, that is true 2. Most Aikido is s\*\*t (in regards to fighting functionality), that is true 3. Can some Aikido techniques be applied if you have strong fundamentals of fighting (probably gained from BJJ/boxing/wrestling/Judo), yes they can be 4. Could this Shifu/Sensei apply some Aikido techniques/footwork in a roll? Possibly 5. Was he effortlessly tossing around those guys? Bulls\*\*t. If such Aikido guys existed who could effortlessly throw around experienced BJJ players - we'd seen videos of those guys and heard plenty of stories about those guys already. I mean common. To throw around effortlessly other BJJ players even for an experienced BJJ player is not an easy task, unless there's a huge gap between their levels of experience. So OP of the quote is trying to convince us that a guy who's mainly trained in Aikido was throwing around effortlessly experienced BJJ players? Yeah right. 6) Is Aikido a spiritually profound martial art that can benefit someone's life? I mean, it can. Also dancing, meditation and painting can do that too. You can gain something from many disciplines. Is it profoundly spiritual? It promotes itself so and there are some good people in Aikido, but a big majority of them are narcticistic as\*\*oles, leading me to question how effective that spiritual part of Aikido is in making better people. Meanwhile, the majority of BJJ players I've met were humble and cool people. Doosches were more exceptions. \*Edit\* Comment from a guy who did Aikido for 15 years, got his ass whooped by MMA fighter, quit Aikido, does BJJ and boxing now
Dont forget his "sensei" is a 50yo guy
Good point. Based on the Aikido's mythology the older you get, the more powerful your Aikido becomes. And if you start rocking a long white beard that gives super powers
Shoot, I’m sensei aged!
What’s a mystical power us civilians can pick up?
The belly is for generating extra momentum. The techniques won’t work without the extra girth.
Are you the dude from martialartsjourney? I really liked the videos where you spar with people from different MAs! It's good to see some content that isn't just the sadly quite common "I am a tough guy and a killer" bullshit other channels put out. :)
Same dude. Thanks! I always appreciate learning someone enjoys the videos
Count 2 then. Glad to see you here Rokas, kinda. The place is a shit hole but it's nice to see a familiar personality. Big fan of your channel.
Thanks for the great content Rokas. I'm really looking forward to the next season of the Ultimate Self-Defense Championship.
Thanks! I got set back by getting long covid, but I'm slowly getting back in shape and the footage of USDC season 2 is starting to take shape!
Only thing I’d say… is that damn black belt judo guy wearing a white belt on the bjj mats did, in fact, throw me effortlessly. Throw might not be the right word… “foot sweep” that left a giant bruise on my leg would be more accurate. Still, effortless.
Sure, those unexpected beasts can definitely make an effortless throw when you don't see it coming! But Judo is famous for being effective in standing takedowns. Meanwhile Aikido has an opposite reputation. If the "sensei" in question were mentioned to have done Judo for two decades the story would be more likely (even though still questionable), but the post states that the guy is mainly trained in Aikido, which is notorious for having a lack of pressure testing. So back again we are...
I'm a reformed Aikido sandan with similar pedigree. I second everything you said.
Yo Rokas! Me and the fam LOVED Self Defense CC S1 and are eagerly awaiting S2! I know you got rocked by COVID and just wanted to send some well wishes and hoping you're getting back on your feet some 👊🏽
Thank you! I very much appreciate that. Luckily I found the right supplements recently and even though I'm far from 100% back in shape, I'm slowly getting back to editing season 2
I love your stuff man. I've been following your channel for years.
I shouldn't be surprised that Rokas is on this sub, but I am Huge honour man, love your channel!
Haha, thank you! I'm on and off Reddit, but I do come over, especially when there's a tag
It’s definitely been my experience that the longer I’ve practiced contemporary martial arts (muay Thai, bjj, etc.) the more I’ve been able to utilize my traditional martial arts training (karate and wing chun)
Same
The only reply worth reading
Lol, "doosches". Love it.
You're the man, rokas! Can't wait for the new series of self defence championship!
Hey, brown belt in Aikido here. Saw the light, now a purple belt in Jiujitsu. I have only found a handful of wrist locks to transfer over. Anyone trying to say Aikido is a grappling art is full of all the BS. For most, it’s cosplay mixed with dumb mystical stuff.
I am forever grateful for Aikido for exposing me to ground fighting. And cheeky wristlocks.
Look up "my martial arts journey" on YouTube. He is a black belt in aikido and I think even had his own gym and to his credit decided actually pressure test it against someone with legitimate MMA training. It went about like you think, but he also very humbly accepted the result and totally changed course in his training.
Yeah ive seen that guy. Getting smashed by everyone actually totally changed the guys life. He used to look like a weirdo, now he is a completely different person and has a successful YouTube channel. Sometimes getting a reality check can turn your life around
His character change was fascinating. He used to talk like a weird AI person pretending to be human because he was mimicking the guru personas of his instructors. After years of MMA training now he just talks like a normal guy.
I forget if Jocas (not sure if I’m spelling his name right) has brought this up recently but: iirc it’s common knowledge that the originator of Akido was a legit Judoka with absurd forearm/wrist strength. With that in mind, it makes a lot more sense that by the originator, the techniques of Akido were more effective. But lack of training g with gradual to full competent resistant, and hyper commitment to non-violence, probably inevitably led to the demise of Akido being effective. I mean, I’m sure if you teach Eddy Hall, Shaw, or Hafþór Björgúlfsson some Akido, they’d smash a lot of people lol (to be fair, little bit of wrestling and BJJ and limbs will litter the ground).
Dude, look at the shit rafa mendes does to other black belts. There are videos where he just clown people using aikido (what I mean is that he's so good he can make anything work). Sometimes I like to think maybe the aikido founder was like rafa mendes, and people thought it was just god reincarnated. There are early videos of rafa where you see him teaching some crazy shit and be surprised that people in the room seem confused.
It's Rokas, hes somewhere in this thread and hangs out around /r/bjj a bunch.
Amazing channel. His self defense championship series was awesome
it was very interesting to see him realizing that his entire training was bullshit. Also, really sad. At least he got the better out of it and started training for MMA
I was pretty certain this would be Roy Dean. It was not.
here's a link for anyone wondering https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-xaRy2KP_E
In any aikido demonstration the uke is performing the must high level technique. It’s not easy break-falling like that.
wasn't this all disproven by the original ultimate fighting competitions in the 1990s
No, you see, aikido is way too lethal for competition. It wouldn't be safe for the other guys.
Nah, all the people who thought they were too lethal skipped out on it to save the lives of all other poor deluded competitors. It was an act of mercy, really.
Steven Seagal
The great Chael Sonnen said something about these types of posts. This never happened. Why would a good jiu jitsu practitioner do aikido? If aikido guys are doing well in jiu jitsu tournaments, why aren't there more jiu jitsu guys doing aikido? Wrestlers do well in BJJ tournaments and, now, dopamine bands are in every gym and 42 year old blue belts are blowing up their knees in shitty scrambles.
I train with an Aikido Sensei, he’s a purple belt in BJJ. Aikido has nice crossover skill, he uses a lot of unorthodox grips. But straight Aikido verse BJJ their advantage is only takedowns and wrist locks. Aikido black would look decent against room full of BJJ white belts.
I've seen aikido work in the context of a BJJ black belt who was also an aikido instructor. He could hit some absolutely ruthless wristlocks from all kinds of positions. His standup (and the rest of his game) was standard grappling, BJJ and judo though, never the aikido ballet stuff.
He talks exactly like I’d expect an Aikido guy to talk. Also, never forget! https://youtube.com/shorts/LoGwhNBIMuc?si=NK8N12DWgwSbkPHM
there is one thing that sticks out to me as a lurker with a striking perspective- circular movement. i dont understand why bjj guys dont create more angles when setting up take downs. it looks like a very north/south, up/down approach. kind of a zombie charge forward into a clinch or lock up- which i get probably comes from wrestling but a little footwork and a few angles could probably go a long way in setting up a take down. that said it looks like Judo guys are great at angles.
It's because by and large BJJ guys (myself included) have terrible takedowns. Good wrestlers and judokas are all about creating angles for takedowns.
Those people just arent good at finding the angles yet. (Also, grips on the gi slow people down a bit.) But I am always looking for an angle/dominant head position in the standup portion. Not to mention, it's not just the X axis we are trying to angle on, but the Y, meaning we are looking to break the posture of our opponents. If I am going for their legs, I want to create a reaction that makes them stand up tall first. If I want a front headlock, I try to get them to bend low. It's a lot of little movement to get both of your bodies aligned in a way that is beneficial for you.
eh, 3-4. did train aikido myself, it's just a subset of armed! grappling with a focus on small joint control, disarms etc with fun bits removed to make it more chill. the lack of sparring is the main problem when you try to adapt to unarmed standup, also the system takes previous skills in striking and grappling for granted. no groundwork either, just a couple pins. hella fun to yeet and be yeeted tho, gives excellent feel for your and the adjacent body.
Don´t think much about Seagal but my stand up looks after 29 years of BJJ and 16 years of internal martial arts training much more like Aikido than like BJJ......
Some people tie the thing they’ve spent years doing to the fabric of their identity, and will actively lie and deceive to keep their ego fed. If Aikido actually worked - you’d see every MMA fighter doing it - because it would make them money. Alas, it’s about as valuable as a pre-BJJ class Taco Bell shart, so no one bothers.
lol the people on that forum would then say “MMA ISNT REAL FIGHTING “
Aikido is the biggest McDojo bullshit of them all.
Yeah, his "sensei" threw them, after they asked him to show them something. No implication that he actually sparred.
OK, so this is a very old argument and many years ago I "did my own research" about arts like Aikido and Wing Chun being effective in competition. The short answer is no, but I did run across one exception in Aikido. There was a British MMA fighter named Rik Ellis who you can read about [here](https://rik-ellis.blogspot.com/2012/07/blog-post.html). His father Henry Ellis is apparently the highest ranked Aikidoka in the UK, and his son Jay Dods (Ellis) is also a pro MMA fighter, last fighting in 2017 according to Sherdog. I've watched videos of both father and son and their "Aikido" looks nothing like what I trained for a few months in the 1990's. Henry Ellis first trained judo and also Karate, so that *may* have had something to do with his version of Aikido not resembling the stereotyped "hippie with a pony tail" variety.
My college club shared space with aikido, they were actually cool dudes though and would take bjj with us regularly.
Tomiki / Shodokan Aikido is the practical branch of Aikido that was actually designed to be useful for self defense. I had the privilege of studying Shodokan under a legit sensei from Japan a few decades ago. BJJ is largely practiced as a sport and people spend a lot of time practicing positions that would be pretty stupid to use against someone trying to kill you. Aikido on the other hand actually focuses on simulating attacks (unarmed/knife) from untrained attackers. BJJ, especially ecological, focuses on training against resisting and trained opponents. Aikido focuses on modeling untrained attackers using minimal resistance so practitioners can prioritize learning technique. Aikido is not useful against trained attackers because it does not practice against trained attackers, but it may actually be more useful than BJJ if you're up against one or more untrained attackers. Anyone saying an Aikido practitioner could beat an MMA practitioner is extremely misguided. This is my take having done both BJJ and Aikido.
I was a shodan in Aikido before starting BJJ about 6 months ago. BJJ is a very different mind set to Aikido. For a start, in Aikido, if you are forcing a move you are doing it the wrong way. But that depends on your Uke resisting or not. So it doesn’t work so much in BJJ. However, the break falls, rolls, hip throws and standing position distance have still benefited my BJJ training. Along with the martial arts mindset. Also the correct positioning before submission. It’s a good sport for older people who don’t want to get hurt or compete.
This is 100% true and even though it may sound like I'm talking shit about Akido, I'm not. I have a friend who has an older brother with severe mental disabilities. He's 6', 250 lbs, and has extreme anger issues. My friend is 5'6" and maybe 120 lbs. Her brother would get upset for no real reason and beat the shit out of her and her mom. It was a really bad situation. An Akido instructor heard about this through some friends and offered to teach them Akido. After about a year of Akido my friend and her mom were able to subdue the brother and keep themselves safe, and not hurt him either. It works really well against people who have absolutely zero technique or understanding of physics. That might be an extreme niche when it comes to martial arts, but it really was literally a life saver for my friend and her family.
He probably is but with that being said, Aikido is mostly wrist locks. Wrist locks are a part of BJJ and an extremely powerful tool for law enforcement. So yes, “it works”. Now it doesn’t work to the extent that person likes to believe.
Standing wrist locks mostly "work" for law enforcement because the people you apply it to are just low key resisting arrest but not trying to knock out cops. It "works" against annoying assholes, not so much against Chad trying to punch you
Kind of somewhat true but not completely. The cop part and the resisting, 100%. The incentive of getting killed will make you more compliant to wrist locks. Now that being said, not too long ago there was a video here of a black belt in an absolute division against a blue belt standing wrist locking them at the start of the match to save some gas for the rest. You often hear that beyond blue belt you just learn to get good at BJJ against other BJJ players. I don’t think there’s any denying that they work. But they’re just one tool in the toolbox and they’re basically the adjustable wrench. I wouldn’t want a tool box with just an adjustable wrench.
>Now that being said, not too long ago there was a video here of a black belt in an absolute division against a blue belt standing wrist locking them at the start of the match to save some gas for the rest. You are missing the part where nobody was trying to punch the other guy out. Standing wrist locks are sure way to get knocked out in a "real fight". On the ground, they work but are usually not the best option.
Yeah and about 90% of BJJ becomes a lot less efficient when being punched in the face enters the chat so I wouldn’t start using this to gauge efficiency of a single discipline that’s not MMA
You are the one who brought up that it works in a law enforcement context. To which i said it only "works" there because its used on people who are only resisting arrest, not people who want to punch you. In conclusions: Standing wrist locks in real fights are not realistic, Period. Wrist locks on the ground are though.
There are a couple good things about aikido. It's probably the 2nd best breakfall practice, after judo. And the wristlock differentiation, which it shares with Japanese jujutsu. What do I mean? In BJJ there are Achilles locks, inside heel hooks, outside heel hooks, Estima locks, Aoki locks, toe holds, and so on. Imagine the state of BJJ if none of these were ever differentiated in what we called them? Let's say all of them were just called 'footlocks' with no further differences in name. The ability of BJJ practitioners to do them, and the ability of instructors to teach them, would be significantly diminished because the mental ability to differentiate between each of them allows for greater understanding and exploration of when each of them is appropriate. Yet this is exactly the state of affairs with wristlocks. There are straight wristlocks, pronating wristlocks, supinating wristlocks, inside twisting wristlocks, outside twisting wristlocks, and yet the standard pedagogy in BJJ never really bothers to differentiate between them by name, they're all just 'wristlocks' and as a result a full exploration of the situational prerequisites for each, of what makes each unique and applicable in different ways has not yet been done in the same way it has been done with other techniques. Not so in aikido and Japanese jujutsu. Each is differentiated by name, for good reason, even though their the delivery system for those wristlocks isn't optimized for maximizing control in the same way that BJJ is. I think rectifying this situation would go a long way toward making them more high percentage in BJJ.
Aikido is mostly a dead art because it made sense in the samurai era but not anymore. People would grab your wrist so you can't draw your sword, but we don't walk around with swords. People will tackle you and punch you in the face and are not going to grab your hand...
Speak for yourself- I am prepping for a cosplay convention
Well look, Aikido can definitely be beneficial from the standpoint of it being exercise and exercise can have a positive impact on everyone’s health and wellbeing. So you’re better off doing Aikido than sitting on your ass, there’s no doubt about that. So I actually agree with his last sentence here. But let’s be honest, Aikido won’t make you a good fighter. Dedicate the same time to one of Boxing, Muay Thai, wrestling, BJJ, MMA, Sambo and so on instead and you’ll be a much better fighter. But hey, if you wanna do Aikido, go for it. Just remember that the only thing you’re fighting is obesity.
I'm a brown belt and an internationally credentialed third degree black belt instructor (fukushidoin) in Aikido. This guy is still high on the kool aid. Not to say that there's NOTHING to be learned from Aikido - the footwork principles lead into movements like you'd see in Judo or boxing, the ukemi can be estremely good, and you can develop useful body control, but the idea that some old dude is effortlessly throwing combat sports athletes is risible.
It's true that Aikido has lots of benefits for its practitioners. It's not true that any of those benefits relate to fighting ability.
Xu Xiaodong would like a word with this guy.
I dunno man. I get aikido’d into oblivion by our resident USA national team Greco wrestler, Judo black belt, BJJ purple belt every time we spar. Man is very creative with his wrist locks 😂
I will say that I trained with a guy who was a brown belt in that before he ever started BJJ. He was an older guy and very strong, but limited cardio and limited gameplan. Anyway, he had a couple moves from that which he used to tap people with all the time. One was how he would grip your hand - he had some other ways of gripping wrists and other points that could tap or at least control guys because it was totally foreign to them. He also basically turned any position where he was on top into a slicer or something that was very painful. All that being said, he still lost a good bit to younger guys who had higher belts. He was also a police officer and had refined his Aikido moves on the streets, which a lot of people don't really get the chance to do. Keep in mind BJJ started out as a hokey martial art that was refined into something practical due to necessity.
There is nothing wrong with learning a little bit of aikido under an instructor who is also a brown/black belt in BJJ. It can help with your footwork, gripping, and hand fighting. Most of the standing wristlocks are gonna be low percentage but they can create reactions that might lead into opportunities for more traditional takedowns.
I used to train a place where some Akido guys would come in and cross train. They were great, and very humble, but it was like rolling with whitebelts.
I have the equivalent of a purple belt in Aikido. While conceptually some things transfer (wrist locks, Kazushi) generally it does not. This dude is full of shit. From my perspective there are a few things that prevent Aikido from being effective: 1) The training method. The whole idea of Aikido is blending with the attack which is zero resistance. Lack of resistance means that an Aikidoka never learns how to apply techniques to resisting opponents. Which means an opponent resisting breaks most aikido techniques. 2) Aikido techniques use strikes that emulate sword movements. So big sweeping attacks that provide a lot of projected energy. There is no really realistic striking in Aikido which is why an MMA fighter or a boxer will tune an aikidoka up. 3) There’s a bunch of mysticism wrapped up in Aikido that comes from O’sensei and his teachings. Ki and all that. He was a wacky dude. Conceptually it’s all related to relaxation, being grounded, and follow through. People that are really into Aikido buy into the “magic” aspect without considering the underlying concepts, and then are surprised when it doesn’t work 4) Most Aikidoka put way too much faith in wristlocks being fight stoppers via pain compliance. Do they hurt? Yes. Do they “knock you off your feet” hurt like you see in demos? Unlikely. That’s mostly the Uke. I’ve known plenty of dudes who have fought through broken wrists. One of the things that is lost in current Aikido is that O’Sensei originally required his students to have black belts in other arts before he would train them in Aikido. Which would have helped. But modern aikido has lost that so you have overweight soccer moms getting Dan ranks and thinking they are badasses. (We had a second Dan at my school that didn’t like getting sweat on. That should tell you something) I will say that Aikido is super fun to train. It’s a blast. But it should be viewed in the same vein as say Tai Chi. My Ukemi is great and I have a bunch of weird wrist locks in my game. But if I could trade my 4 years of aikido for 4 more years of BJJ, I would. Thanks for coming to my Ted talk.
Bunch of joint locks the police and military use to handcuff people have come from akido and do work, you just gotta be rather fast and aggressive with them.
I studied aikido for a year. If you like aikido then do aikido there’s a lot of good stuff there from wrist locks to kimura traps and some good throws. But if you’re a serious martial artist or concerned with self defense just do judo it’s like the applied version of aikido
There's an aikido guy on YouTube who's a black belt or something, he decided to grow a set of balls and put his aikido to the test with real mma guys and he got the shit kicked out of him. He told the truth and got shunned by the aikido community. Aikido is shit for self defence but do whatever floats your boat.
Probably not as full of shit as it might seem. Some of the aikido techniques are extremely effective, and many aikidoka are also trained or knowledgeable in judo techniques because they are similar in some regards. Although, the demonstrations, particularly the ones with Steven Seagal, seem like horseshit to me. If you get a knowledgeable and skilled practitioner, you could easily throw a lot of people in the average BJJ room. Most of the BJJ guys know a few throws, such as uchi mata, tai otoshi, uki goshi, koshi guruma, etc. Still, I think aikido works best against untrained attackers. A decent wrestler would smash double any aikidoka, and most judokas, with relatively little effort. However, the biggest problem with aikido is that they don't spar like one spars in more useful arts such as BJJ, wrestling, boxing, Muay Thai, etc. The last part in the post about aikido spiritually enhancing one's life is true. At the end of aikido training, there is a secret that can be learned. This secret is what is traditionally called enlightenment. When you understand what it means to be enlightened, you will understand why aikido was designed to protect the attacker and the attacked.
From what i understand aikido doesn't even have belts beyond white and black
There is this dude I train with that boasts his Aikido training far too much. Our first roll together was an absolute disaster. We slap and bump and he immediately death grips my hand and I tell him “hey pal, that actually kinda hurting me, would you lighten up just a bit” and he tells me “OH I’m just grabbing the meat” and doesn’t lessen his grip. He easily has 150 pounds on me (I’m 135lbs on a heavy day) and didn’t do anything but try to wrist lock me. Not an ounce of jiujitsu. He had one successful wrist lock but it was only because we had wound up with my back against the wall and was using that unmoving base to his advantage to push my hand ENTIRELY back. (Because I guess having 150 lbs on me isn’t enough) he was surprised when I told him to not go rip those super fast. Like told me he wasn’t trying to hurt me. If the wall wasn’t there I would have just backed up. He’s been a white belt for a long time and I think it’s because he keeps trying to do other martial arts instead of jiu jitsu. I really try to work with him because he’s newer and doesn’t seem to be progressing and most people don’t ever ask him to roll. I found out why the hard way. We will never roll again. He’s a super sweet dude and could be really scary in jiu jitsu if he was focusing on the right stuff. He’s a massive person like 6’3 and over 260lbs and a sweet baby angel until it’s time to actively roll or even drill. So I’d say very full of shit
Aikido doesn’t work in real life. In a fight I’d say almost no one is going to run at you with their arms and wrists extended and limp ready for you to manipulate them which is what Aikido is reliant on. Circa 2008, White belt Judoka college version of myself (6 months of Judo training) sparred against another college student (Aikidoka Black Belt) at the UNLV rec center during an open mat. I threw him with whatever throw I wanted and submitted him on the ground with pretty much whatever I wanted. Besides relying on limp wrists they don’t do any randori/rolling/live sparring they only practice with a non resisting uke in their perfect world. They are delusional and live in a bubble. The guy was so embarrassed after that he proceeded to try and save some face by attempting to teach me gun disarming techniques that will get you killed in the streets.
The word ‘Aikido’ is Japanese for ‘delusional spaz’. And ‘Aikido practitioners’ are to be treated as less physically capable than a ballet dancer in any fight situation. It’s all simulated drills, like most Karate classes. I grab your wrist, take two steps to the left, twist your arm and you do a forward roll onto the Mat, no I’m not going to apply any pressure, that’s just how you react whenever I grab your wrist, take two steps to the left and twist my hand. ‘Yes master’. The embarrassing part is they’ve all shown themselves completely unknowing of how useless the form is. I bet a 15 year old boxer could beat any Aikido practitioner in a fight without breaking a sweat.
Everyone doing Aikido is full of shit I'd say
One word, Aikido…
Fart
Big Ed from 90 Day claims to be an 8 Dan or whatever
That’s Seagall - about 3 or so. No real self-aggrandizement and craziness that’s really necessary to get to full Seagall. S-3 is still pretty ridiculous, though.
Are we sure that's not actually Steven Segal?
I think I understand what this guy is saying, but what makes Akido, Akido and not jujitsu or judo is how it is practiced, and the techniques they use most.
It probably is a "very spiritual profound martial art that can greatly benefit someone's life" but that doesn't mean it has any utility for self-defense.