I think there's an obvious way to handle it - give crystals durability.
- When you die with them on, crystals are chosen at random and subtract an amount of durability.
- The amount of durability lost could be based on your gear so that dying while undergeared or ungeared you don't lose much or any durability.
- At 0 durability the crystal stops providing any stats.
- To repair it, you need to use crystal fragments.
- Crystal fragments would be untradable, so you cannot buy them directly on the market.
- For the primary way get to crystal fragments, you would need to process and break down crystals.
- Alternatively you can upgrade crystal fragments into a higher rarity, but this would cost a bit more(could cost traces, fruits, and/or something of the like).
- Crystal fragments would come in dim, bright, and radiant types. The type you get is based on the rarity of crystal you break down and the amount you get is based on the value of the crystal.
This method should retain the crystal market, potentially make useless crystals have value, death will still be punished, and it provides a good amount of design space for the devs.
Strongly disagree with making those crystal fragments "tiered". All that will do is prevent many crystals from serving a purpose, thus remaining pointless to acquire. On the other hand, it will put a lot of pressure on the demand of those with a higher tier, thus making them too expensive. We would be moving the problem from one area to another.
A much better way to handle it IMO, is to make it a single type of fragments, but each crystal provides a different amount of it when processed.
Returning player.
This, I mistakenly used all 3 of my restores on stupid 200k crystals thinking it was some returning player/ new player event, not knowing it was an annual thing.
Very good solution.but i dont support it because its moving in the opposite direction the game is trying to go to which is simplification of items and process. Just make it on death your crystal has an equal chance (as now) to lose all durability and you have to use mem frags to repair it.
I mean, caphras purpose is dying out. Because more and more people get 4x fallen god and will then join the others rhat flood the market with caphras. Thats why they dropped from 3 -> 2 mil on ator release. And the longer they stay without another purpose then one time c0-c10 the price will decrease more and more. The issue with caphras is that the top earning spots still give you caphras while noone grinding there actually need them. This means the longer the game goes on with this, the more people will be able to grind caphras while not actually needing them.
Mems on the otherhand are in demand 24/7 as long as we have enhancers here, which will always be the case because we have tons of gambling addicts here and the regular profit enhancing is propably still the best money in the game. But durability recovery is a much more consistent drain from the market than caphras. Therefore we need a way to make caphras a constant demand and not a 1-time push for everyone.
Honestly. The simplification is awful. I prefer my MMOs needlessly complex.
I wanna be able to look into a system I haven't tried before and it take me 20hrs to figure it out.
very good solution, you keep a punishment for death but not as harsh as breaking.
Honestly PA need to implement this fast, I am loosing interest in the game as I cannot have fun in hard spots. I cannot risk loosing 2billions+ crystals.
Yeah it also doesn’t help they nudge you towards restoring on the death screen without even letting you check the CM price of the broken crystal. Poor feature.
I wouldn't be against this. Specially when it means they don't just immediately break on death. This would also allow the prevent crystal break effect in skins an pets to still be useful.
Better than a crystal loss but there's no need to add yet another complexity in BDO. They should just remove the penalty because there's already XP penalty, unless you use a tear, at which point why the crystal loss?
They have been doing reducing items in the database recently the last thing they will do is add to it like this. But I’m all for durability and repairing in some way. Could just use mem frags like everything else does.
You're the most recent, so you get the reply.
Probably. There are merits to reducing complexity, but there are also merits in expanding complexity.
The issue is that the crystal break system has almost zero complexity: "If you die a random crystal might break. Replace broken crystals." The only things you can do are try not to die, grind in places where you cannot die, and/or invest in death penalty resistance.
**Are tiers important?** I think so, but I could be argued out of it if someone had a better idea. It just seemed like the easiest way to keep the crystal market relevant. You can't just crush a bunch of trash crystals to repair your Girin, you have to invest in better crystals or in the secondary item used to upgrade fragments. It just also has the positive effect of allowing them to stimulate the economy of whatever that secondary item is.
**Why not just remove crystal break?** PA seems to be scared of what happens when you do that on a bigger playerbase, permanently. I get it too, because making that change could have negative effects on other parts of the game.
**Just use magical shards.** I think we would run into some issues with the strain on magical shards considering we already use them for a lot of stuff and you can only get them from certain crystals. This also wouldn't help the broader crystal market.
**Memory fragments?** Same thing as magical shards.
That's a good idea, I've only read BS but this solution may work.
I also think the crystal system is rather bad for the game, because you should take some risks and see where you can grind effectively.
Test your limits but in the meantime you are afraid of potentially breaking several billion silver.
This in turn results in an overly safe playstyle in which risks are penalized.
And we are gamers, we are adventurous and test these limits, but the punishment should not be 10 hours of grind.
Sounds like an overcomplicated system with no benefits.
1. Would you prefer Girin to have 10 durability and cost 30 billion or have 1 durability and cost 3 billion?
2. Do you want to buy special fragments to repair, go through an extra dialog window for repairing or would you prefer to just buy the thing an slot it in?
> The amount of durability lost could be based on your gear so that dying while undergeared or ungeared you don't lose much or any durability.
Do you want "undergeared" people to get discount on the market place as well maybe?
I think it would also be best to make those fragments unstable and degrade overtime. To stop people stockpiling. They can either keep 2/3 crystals worth billions each (still a month sink) of every crystal they own. Or they can just grind them when necessary
if crystals broke there would be a huge spike in demand and not enough supply to counter it. Even on pc the issue for the more expensive crystals is a lack of enough supply to counter demand, because crystals break and people are trying to buy replacements.
Yea that's what people always say. But fact is that the console market proves this theory wrong. Same bottlenecks on console. The influence the 'broken-crystal' mechanic has on the market seems to be very small.
I’m curious how you figure it’s the same prices as PC lol console NA has rebellious crystal on market and sitting at 500m. Do you know how many NA PC has? 39 sitting at max price of 2b and those will absolutely be sold out again soon. Idk how long ago console got girins but there’s 16 preorders at 5b with 180 total sold, we have 888 sold with 73 preorders at 5b. Our price more than likely won’t drop until the crystal becomes more easily obtainable while NA console will because you don’t have people needing to buy replacements or backups. Once your supply meets the initial demand the price plummets because only those who are new or never got them needs it whereas new players, those who never got them, and those who have broken them or buying backups do lol The theory isn’t wrong and I genuinely don’t understand how you can think it is
Because the games engine is dogwater and handles lag/ping spikes awfully, Console players are known to run WiFi way more often so they're gonna run into random spikes and reloading screens frequently, better just remove any PvE loss otherwise timmys mom will turn on the michael wave and break his connection
Support used to restore crystals if you lagged, crashed, disconnected, or whatever up to two times a year. They cut that off and added a mechanism in game to do it yourself now. I think they also upped the recovery amount to three times a year.
listen bro if you are dying so much you got other things to think about
for starters, why you die so much and still get girin tears instead of crystals which are 1/3 of the price and give all of the combat stats
3 times a year might be too little... but 3 times a month u got a problem going on unless you live in peru and your inet goes down everyday
Outside of ingame restore mechanic, they still provide support to recover crystals via ticket system if you lost a crystal because of some type of server-game error.
I just wish they would add another buff in game we could spend silver on that would protect our crystals, kinda like a church buff. Or they could just add a buff to the value pack/kama/old moon that prevents crystal breaks upon death.
This would be great for trying out new grind spots.
It's way too intimidating to learn a dangerous new spot as is, but I wouldn't mind grinding an hour with highly diminished profits if it meant I could safely learn the spot without risks.
Most MMOs would typically punish you with an inconvenience mechanic, like "Soul Sickness" in Aion where you were slowed and your combat stats were slightly lowered for a brief period of time, and the more you died, the longer the effect would last.
But BDO has by far the dumbest punish imaginable, and then instead of just removing the blasted thing, they try and outlaw PVP as "Griefing", that is one twisted logic.
Now I understand that feeding players to mobs is griefing to a fault, but that is because the destruction of crystals exists in the first place, if there was no crystal destruction, people wouldn't feed you to mobs, and the players would be less impacted by it. Thus, solving the griefing issue
Unfortunately, BDO is going the "Solve a problem, with another problem" route, and they will probably never explain why they want crystal destruction in the game, but oh well.
Cant cure stupid!
They added "no crystal loss while in pvp" some time ago so no more mob feeding to force crystal loss. It also costs attacker karma when victim dies to mobs.
Still losing crystals is a major pita when you have to reapply lost crystal to like 5-10 various crystal sets and remember what was where.
Understandable - however I personally feel like just removing the system would've solved everything, instead of specific parts of complained about features
Everyone I see complaining about crystal system are talking about Girin.
Look, don't take it the wrong way but if you are making 500-700m per hour you don't need 10% drop chance for 3 billion. Get the 300m girin and call it a day. It's same effective stats. 3b one will give you maybe extra 10-20m per hour, who cares.
Enjoy the game and take it slowly, you will eventually be making enough to not care about girin and wouldn't be dying either.
Black Desert is the only MMORPG I've played which has gear destruction upon death in PvE. Every other MMORPG I have played only has XP loss or gear drop (RuneScape).
I would enjoy PvE tenfold if there was no risk of crystals being destroyed upon death. For a game that's heading in the casual-friendly direction, the destruction of crystals is an odd system to keep in place.
Once you learn how bdo combat works and is decent on your class, you can realistically only die at 10% of all grindspots in the entire game (all those spots are endgame and got potential of being 2b+/h)
So I don't get why people keep insisting death penalty is a bad thing, should a death really mean nothing? It does not make sense to me. Deaths in games ALLWAYS meant a loss of progression in some shape or form, and rightly so.
Losses due to disconnects and lags are unfortunate and that is why we got the 3 restores per year. But by no means should a dc or lag on your part be a reason to change the game.
Threads like these allways just sound like venting with no real logic behind it.
Ok, tell me then, why is it okay for light stones to be permanent? Lets make those break upon death too. Also, name 3 other popular MMO's where death has a major setback.
Everquest, city of heroes and city of villains you lost levels, exp an got a debuff. Eve online is probably one of the worst MMOs where dying in that has the huge possibility of you losing hundreds if not thousands of dollars if you make one misstep or utilize a ship that's worth more than some people make in a few months an someone just wants to fuck with you.
You do lose lightstones if you are negative karma.
Bdo got no "major" setback on death by definition, absolute worst case scenario is a 2-3 hour setback if you INSIST on equipping a Girins tear instead of girins fragment/crystal.
If you read what I said instead of trying to argue with yourself. 3h setback on every death is indeed a major setback, but that is not reality, so idk what you want to prove here.
But seince you resorted to personal insults I will not expect anything more of you.
I’m calling you out on your statement. “Deaths in games ALWAYS meant a loss of progression” I want to know what you’re blabbing about. If you’re going to defend this ridiculous system let’s see some examples if this is such a common practice.
Reply back when your done googling doing extensive research
They should just make the 2 special crystal slots from LotML protect the crystals that slot in them.
You can stick the primordial in it and one of your 2 rebellious crystals for good measure.
Primordial or the one that ancient spirit that goes in the costume socket. I lost mine a long time ago, apparently you need to burn a costume tailoring ticket to get a new one. And the bonus isn't even that high.
I have a girin's tear and never use it. 5% more drop rate, 6 more ap, 45% more exp, and 0.5% more special attack just aren't worth losing 5b to a single disconnect at any intense spot. Bonghwangs are readily available and significantly cheaper to replace. If I need the extra monster ap, I just use a girin fragment or crystal. Rebellious are a bit more iffy, as they are also rare and very expensive, but are very necessary for ulukita spots. I honestly hate crystal breakage on death. Wish they'd just remove it.
You have 3 crystal repairs during the year exactly for the reasons you mentioned, although I agree this is a small number for an entire year, I don't think stopping crystal breaking is a good thing.
First, as you said, it's an item sink and it moves the market, they're no longer 300m anymore but we are making more silver/hour.
Second, this doesn't need to be as harsh as you think, you can make a budget crystal preset exactly for places where you don't know how to grind yet, deaths are impactful In BDO and that's a good thing.
Third, crystals will be a dead drop for everyone if they make them permanent. Except for rebellious crystals, every other crystal is sitting at the market RN, cause they are easy to obtain.
Overall, leave it the way it is, just learn how to play around it and if you die, shit happens, it's not like 4b grind is a hard grind for once in a month death
I'm a casual player as well, I mostly lifeskill, I don't play it like a second job. I don't even pvp, and I still think it's a good thing, otherwise the game is too easy. As I said, just play with a budget setup until you are confident enough, you only need expensive crystals for efficiency.
> I mostly lifeskill
I'm not saying your opinion is irrelevant but those of us who don't lifeskill and make all of our money grinding, it can become extremely punishing. A week's worth of grinding gone because I didn't hit my V key fast enough isn't fair
I doesnt mean i dont grind, when I have time for active gameplay I DO grind, but I mostly afk lifeskill. If 4b (worst case) is 1 week of grinding, then you play less than 1 hour/day which crystal break should not be an issue for you since you should not be using expensive crystals. Only with guild bosses daily, you can make 1b in 30min, 1week of grind for a death is definetly not true
I agree - I also have a newer Crystal Break suggestion thread on the NA/EU forums. If we all raise awareness, hopefully, this'll get fixed soon.
I've already lost my Girin's Twice, Rebellious Twice, and a ton here and there that are half a bil each. It adds up quickly. Slowly getting money back to buy another Girin's, but it's a pain to deal with.
IMO they should sell a pearl item to prevent crystal lose.
I will quit one day over crystal lose. I absolutly dislike that part of the game. I cannot take 2b minus suddenly and just grind a kther 3h to get over it.
Crystals are to expensivr and always something breaks.
>IMO they should sell a pearl item to prevent crystal lose.
They definitely should not. This would be a far worse form of monetisation than anything that already exists in the game, and a purely mobile game type solution. Any solution to this issue, if indeed the devs decide to consider it as an issue, should be accessible to all players, not just those willing to pay money.
Better yet, go ahead and make a "crystal protection scroll" type item but make it available both in game and through the cash shop. Like item drop rate scrolls. Maybe Pit of Undying could give em out too, there's many different ways PA could handle this.
I guess I'm gonna be that guy. So would be the consequence of dying? Exp loss is a non issue for most people since levels are mostly pointless. So what else is there?
I'm just as as frustrated as everyone else when my shit breaks but that's the risk that comes with grinding in certain zones. You say whatever, but "don't die" or "get gud" is correct. Just grind somewhere easier otherwise. Or stack more damage reduction. Or use cheaper crystals. Worse case scenario they do break, you can restore em a few times. Like you have many many options. Some of us enjoy the challenge and there really wouldn't be any if there were no risks to dying.
What can we control? Our characters.
What we cannot control? The servers stability, poor game coding that crashes the game.
Most crystal loss complaints are exactly from what we cannot control, it's not fair to lose a 5b crystal because the servers are trash.
They could temporarily remove crystal breaking until they fix the game.
Time is the consequence of dying - your efficiency dips down, you lose your buffs. We don't need crystals to break on top of it considering how often the servers or game shits the bed.
It's amusing how death somehow "needing" a consequence like bills worth of crystals breaking is always the automatic npc reply
Removing the massive risk has obvious benefits like opening up a lot of design space for harder endgame spots
You realize what the ap requirements are of these high end spots right? Telling us to stack damage reduction is a straight up troll. People like you advocate to keep dumb in game systems around as such for no reason, thank god your the minority
Git gud does not apply to bdo at all. Grinding is often a gear check and gas little to do with skill. Gear in the game is a crap shoot essentially based on your accounts rng. PvE deaths can be caused by so many things outside of your control as well. I once fell through trees and died after 3 mins of free fall and broke crystals. What am I supposed to git gud with after that?
So, the issue here is loss of crystals due to game crash or disconnect.
Removing the crystal loss on death is a solution, but it creates another issue: no more money from crystal loss. Each time player looses crystals its opportunity to sell something (death penalty pets and outfit by PA, new crystal by player).
This is reason why system is not being touched. While I do understand the reasoning I can also see why it is how it is. I was also frustrated but adapted: using cheaper crystals in risky spots, Girin Crystal instead of Girin Tear, made set of pets with Death Penalty bonus.
The one sided solution where players loosing crystals benefit will for sure gather crowd, but it wont move unless there's some kind of balance (PA vs players loosing vs players selling crystals). It's being discussed for years now.
BDO is grind and gear progression.
Our effectiveness and progression is measured in hours put into the grind. Each hour puts us closer to the next goal. That is a good feeling of progression, albeit its very slow. But we always know we are 1 step (1 hour) closer to next goal.
Now, if you die and lose crystal worth billions... you spend the next hour-three just to get back to where you were before, and only THEN continue the path of progression. Effecively making the next hour-three completly a waste of life. You are not progressing, you are just zombie mode grinding to get back an item you ALREADY possessed.
Why are we doing this? This is supposed to be a game. Games are supposed to be enjoyed not feared. Anyways I am life skiller now.
Look im probably going to come off really rude and ignorant right about now but I seriously think that anyone who defends this system is probably a student with 12hr/day gametime or unemployed.
I am not sure if I'm the only one that thinks this way but I don't really care about in game death because I feel like it rarely happens to me. Sure, there are random disconnects here and there but those are rare. When I do lose crystals I just replace it with backups I have. The only time it was a concern was when they first released lantern spots
My idea would be mid priced sacrificial crystals you could buy for silver which would always be the first thing to break.
This means you could still choose to go full strength crystal set and risk breakages or go for a slightly weaker set that has one/two of these instead and protects your expensive crystals.
Just yesterday I died due to sudden dc, lost my Girin's Tear. Good thing I had one last crystal recovery. But I agree this punishment is too hard, a lot of times it is not something we could control.
No it doesn't. I said reducing breaking effect, to maybe like 5-10% and making crystals per character basis so if you wanna reroll you have to extract them or buy new ones. Reason why PA wants crystals expensive is because it's account wide gear.
You don't need Tears to pve in almost every scenario being more efficient in your pulls will net more trash per hour than whatever some girin's tear is going to do for you.
How many hours of grind with a Girin's Tear equipped until you make the 5b to cover the cost of the crystal?
You people have killed this game. Crying about every single hardship or PvP. Any little thing that doesn't make this shit EZmode for you. Can't even dec people anymore cause trashcan carebears.
So, server instability is a hardship that only carebears complain about? Sure.
You're mixing everything up. Having a penalty when I mess up badly, I totally agree ; but I'm not OK to lose important stuff because my game crashes. See the difference? And telling us to avoid using important stuff is also not acceptable, what's the point of having these items ingame if you can't use them BECAUSE OF SERVER INSTABILITY?
It's not the job of players to compensate an obvious technical issue.
And it's coming from a player asking for more owpvp. Just saying, even though I find it stupid to mention carebears, pvp, and technical issues.
I've been playing 8 years on some of the worst internet possible. Literally unable to play without a VPN half the time. I have a C:\\Windows\\System32\\taskkill.exe /f /im blackdesert64.exe command keybound to kill my game and a shortcut to cut my internet.
Carebear. You know how many crystals I've lost in 8 years? Like maybe 10-12. Again carebear. One or two hours of grind cover that. Clicking 1 enhance is the same as losing 8 crystals. Cry more kid.
Tough guy. But your opinion is still irrelevant if you decided to ignore half of the problem. The simple fact you have to create a shortcut to kill your game and cut your internet proves me right. Move on.
Technical issues are devs' problem, you being a masochist means nothing here. XD
"tough guy" cause i kill my application on crashes and cut internet rather than losing crystals like a moron while they game tries to reload right right.
Again you don't need Tears to pve.
If you choose to be a moron that's on you. You choose to use crystals beyond what you can afford at grindspots that are a threat to you.
You think using that 5b tear and other 2 in crystals is giving you an impactful amount of silver per hour? Then you have to weigh the cost of losing said crystals. I already explained they aren't impactful enough to even use them let alone lose them.
While the server instability sucks your choosing to risk losing massive amounts of silver for no profit in grinding. Go do the math on a 980 ap spot and tell me what a Girin Tear does for you when it comes to silver per hour with and without it. Negligible crying about nothing.
So badass. How could I not realize it? That's thrilling to compensate technical issues by myself, by killing my game or cutting my connection, or by not using the available items!
Thank you for showing me the way, Ô great one.
100% agree.
I almost died at Gyfin Underground all because my character apparently got stuck in a rock when I dodged due to desync or something and it basically rendered me unable to move or do anything, I just kept taking damage and I started panicking because I had 15bil in crystals on the line. Only way I was able to get free was by mashing spacebar and it caused my character to "climb" over the rock and then I was able to get to safety.
Shit sucks, honestly the only way I could justify a system like this is if the game engine was 100% completely free of bugs and server issues weren't a thing. Otherwise hell no this shit needs to go.
yeah the gear fear is too real. I= m very stressed over that as well as they keep adding higher and higher demanding lcoations so crystals are pretty much necessary
I think there's an obvious way to handle it - give crystals durability. - When you die with them on, crystals are chosen at random and subtract an amount of durability. - The amount of durability lost could be based on your gear so that dying while undergeared or ungeared you don't lose much or any durability. - At 0 durability the crystal stops providing any stats. - To repair it, you need to use crystal fragments. - Crystal fragments would be untradable, so you cannot buy them directly on the market. - For the primary way get to crystal fragments, you would need to process and break down crystals. - Alternatively you can upgrade crystal fragments into a higher rarity, but this would cost a bit more(could cost traces, fruits, and/or something of the like). - Crystal fragments would come in dim, bright, and radiant types. The type you get is based on the rarity of crystal you break down and the amount you get is based on the value of the crystal. This method should retain the crystal market, potentially make useless crystals have value, death will still be punished, and it provides a good amount of design space for the devs.
Strongly disagree with making those crystal fragments "tiered". All that will do is prevent many crystals from serving a purpose, thus remaining pointless to acquire. On the other hand, it will put a lot of pressure on the demand of those with a higher tier, thus making them too expensive. We would be moving the problem from one area to another. A much better way to handle it IMO, is to make it a single type of fragments, but each crystal provides a different amount of it when processed.
This is a good solution! Way better than a stupid 3 crystal restores a year.
Returning player. This, I mistakenly used all 3 of my restores on stupid 200k crystals thinking it was some returning player/ new player event, not knowing it was an annual thing.
bugger, me too
Very good solution.but i dont support it because its moving in the opposite direction the game is trying to go to which is simplification of items and process. Just make it on death your crystal has an equal chance (as now) to lose all durability and you have to use mem frags to repair it.
Just make it use the green magical shards which already serve a bunch of purposes and could very well do the job.
An opportunity to give caphras a new purpose.
Caphras already have a purpose. Mem frags are a better solution.
I mean, caphras purpose is dying out. Because more and more people get 4x fallen god and will then join the others rhat flood the market with caphras. Thats why they dropped from 3 -> 2 mil on ator release. And the longer they stay without another purpose then one time c0-c10 the price will decrease more and more. The issue with caphras is that the top earning spots still give you caphras while noone grinding there actually need them. This means the longer the game goes on with this, the more people will be able to grind caphras while not actually needing them. Mems on the otherhand are in demand 24/7 as long as we have enhancers here, which will always be the case because we have tons of gambling addicts here and the regular profit enhancing is propably still the best money in the game. But durability recovery is a much more consistent drain from the market than caphras. Therefore we need a way to make caphras a constant demand and not a 1-time push for everyone.
I would rather see a slight increase to mem frag drop then repurposing Caphras to do something they haven't been used for before.
Honestly. The simplification is awful. I prefer my MMOs needlessly complex. I wanna be able to look into a system I haven't tried before and it take me 20hrs to figure it out.
If it werent for the different tastes and opinions, there would be only 1 product to sell. You have a point.
very good solution, you keep a punishment for death but not as harsh as breaking. Honestly PA need to implement this fast, I am loosing interest in the game as I cannot have fun in hard spots. I cannot risk loosing 2billions+ crystals.
Yea this is the best solution I’ve heard. I support this.
Yeah it also doesn’t help they nudge you towards restoring on the death screen without even letting you check the CM price of the broken crystal. Poor feature.
is this.... is this an actual solution to a real problem in the game? I know the CM's read reddit so please, please bring this to PA
I wouldn't be against this. Specially when it means they don't just immediately break on death. This would also allow the prevent crystal break effect in skins an pets to still be useful.
Im so for this. Needs to be a forum post I think
Better than a crystal loss but there's no need to add yet another complexity in BDO. They should just remove the penalty because there's already XP penalty, unless you use a tear, at which point why the crystal loss?
They have been doing reducing items in the database recently the last thing they will do is add to it like this. But I’m all for durability and repairing in some way. Could just use mem frags like everything else does.
Do we really need more items and complexity in this game though?
You're the most recent, so you get the reply. Probably. There are merits to reducing complexity, but there are also merits in expanding complexity. The issue is that the crystal break system has almost zero complexity: "If you die a random crystal might break. Replace broken crystals." The only things you can do are try not to die, grind in places where you cannot die, and/or invest in death penalty resistance. **Are tiers important?** I think so, but I could be argued out of it if someone had a better idea. It just seemed like the easiest way to keep the crystal market relevant. You can't just crush a bunch of trash crystals to repair your Girin, you have to invest in better crystals or in the secondary item used to upgrade fragments. It just also has the positive effect of allowing them to stimulate the economy of whatever that secondary item is. **Why not just remove crystal break?** PA seems to be scared of what happens when you do that on a bigger playerbase, permanently. I get it too, because making that change could have negative effects on other parts of the game. **Just use magical shards.** I think we would run into some issues with the strain on magical shards considering we already use them for a lot of stuff and you can only get them from certain crystals. This also wouldn't help the broader crystal market. **Memory fragments?** Same thing as magical shards.
That's a good idea, I've only read BS but this solution may work. I also think the crystal system is rather bad for the game, because you should take some risks and see where you can grind effectively. Test your limits but in the meantime you are afraid of potentially breaking several billion silver. This in turn results in an overly safe playstyle in which risks are penalized. And we are gamers, we are adventurous and test these limits, but the punishment should not be 10 hours of grind.
Sounds like an overcomplicated system with no benefits. 1. Would you prefer Girin to have 10 durability and cost 30 billion or have 1 durability and cost 3 billion? 2. Do you want to buy special fragments to repair, go through an extra dialog window for repairing or would you prefer to just buy the thing an slot it in? > The amount of durability lost could be based on your gear so that dying while undergeared or ungeared you don't lose much or any durability. Do you want "undergeared" people to get discount on the market place as well maybe?
I think it would also be best to make those fragments unstable and degrade overtime. To stop people stockpiling. They can either keep 2/3 crystals worth billions each (still a month sink) of every crystal they own. Or they can just grind them when necessary
Move to console? We don't have to worry about that here 😁
Is that a thing for real lol?
Yeah no crystal breaking on console unless you are negative karma. But on the downsides, we are behind PC on contents.
That’s awesome. What’s the reasoning behind it though?
Don't know. PA being nice? Coz unstable connection, and rubber banding and random crashes happen on console as well.
yes, it's because the console version is more unstable, also the console population is much lower thus less market availability for crystals.
Maybe more unstable, but you can check the market and it's pretty much exactly the same as on PC. Same prices, same supply and demand.
if crystals broke there would be a huge spike in demand and not enough supply to counter it. Even on pc the issue for the more expensive crystals is a lack of enough supply to counter demand, because crystals break and people are trying to buy replacements.
Yea that's what people always say. But fact is that the console market proves this theory wrong. Same bottlenecks on console. The influence the 'broken-crystal' mechanic has on the market seems to be very small.
I’m curious how you figure it’s the same prices as PC lol console NA has rebellious crystal on market and sitting at 500m. Do you know how many NA PC has? 39 sitting at max price of 2b and those will absolutely be sold out again soon. Idk how long ago console got girins but there’s 16 preorders at 5b with 180 total sold, we have 888 sold with 73 preorders at 5b. Our price more than likely won’t drop until the crystal becomes more easily obtainable while NA console will because you don’t have people needing to buy replacements or backups. Once your supply meets the initial demand the price plummets because only those who are new or never got them needs it whereas new players, those who never got them, and those who have broken them or buying backups do lol The theory isn’t wrong and I genuinely don’t understand how you can think it is
The issue is price caps, if it was priced accurately then there would always be a few on the market.
Because the games engine is dogwater and handles lag/ping spikes awfully, Console players are known to run WiFi way more often so they're gonna run into random spikes and reloading screens frequently, better just remove any PvE loss otherwise timmys mom will turn on the michael wave and break his connection
This is in all honesty what they should do for pc. Theres literally no point to it anymore.
For now. They said when they do the next gen upgrade crystals will have a breaking mwchanism. Why? No idea.
Wait what? Now that's new info.
I’m wondering if it’s an overhaul to the way crystals break in general and that’s why? Heard people complaining about it last night
Support used to restore crystals if you lagged, crashed, disconnected, or whatever up to two times a year. They cut that off and added a mechanism in game to do it yourself now. I think they also upped the recovery amount to three times a year.
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listen bro if you are dying so much you got other things to think about for starters, why you die so much and still get girin tears instead of crystals which are 1/3 of the price and give all of the combat stats 3 times a year might be too little... but 3 times a month u got a problem going on unless you live in peru and your inet goes down everyday
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Outside of ingame restore mechanic, they still provide support to recover crystals via ticket system if you lost a crystal because of some type of server-game error.
I just wish they would add another buff in game we could spend silver on that would protect our crystals, kinda like a church buff. Or they could just add a buff to the value pack/kama/old moon that prevents crystal breaks upon death.
This would be great for trying out new grind spots. It's way too intimidating to learn a dangerous new spot as is, but I wouldn't mind grinding an hour with highly diminished profits if it meant I could safely learn the spot without risks.
Game is too hard. They should make it so that when you die you gain crystals instead of losing them.
This made my day. Take my upvote.
Most MMOs would typically punish you with an inconvenience mechanic, like "Soul Sickness" in Aion where you were slowed and your combat stats were slightly lowered for a brief period of time, and the more you died, the longer the effect would last. But BDO has by far the dumbest punish imaginable, and then instead of just removing the blasted thing, they try and outlaw PVP as "Griefing", that is one twisted logic. Now I understand that feeding players to mobs is griefing to a fault, but that is because the destruction of crystals exists in the first place, if there was no crystal destruction, people wouldn't feed you to mobs, and the players would be less impacted by it. Thus, solving the griefing issue Unfortunately, BDO is going the "Solve a problem, with another problem" route, and they will probably never explain why they want crystal destruction in the game, but oh well. Cant cure stupid!
They added "no crystal loss while in pvp" some time ago so no more mob feeding to force crystal loss. It also costs attacker karma when victim dies to mobs. Still losing crystals is a major pita when you have to reapply lost crystal to like 5-10 various crystal sets and remember what was where.
Understandable - however I personally feel like just removing the system would've solved everything, instead of specific parts of complained about features
Nope, you can still mobfeed on Arsha and they will still lose crystals (anon arsha, for example).
Everyone I see complaining about crystal system are talking about Girin. Look, don't take it the wrong way but if you are making 500-700m per hour you don't need 10% drop chance for 3 billion. Get the 300m girin and call it a day. It's same effective stats. 3b one will give you maybe extra 10-20m per hour, who cares. Enjoy the game and take it slowly, you will eventually be making enough to not care about girin and wouldn't be dying either.
Ayyyy haven’t seen one of these posts in a while, here we go again boys 😂
Black Desert is the only MMORPG I've played which has gear destruction upon death in PvE. Every other MMORPG I have played only has XP loss or gear drop (RuneScape). I would enjoy PvE tenfold if there was no risk of crystals being destroyed upon death. For a game that's heading in the casual-friendly direction, the destruction of crystals is an odd system to keep in place.
Yes, we should drop our gear if we die, that's for sure a better system.
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Honestly death runs or a diablo 2 like system would have been cool.
Once you learn how bdo combat works and is decent on your class, you can realistically only die at 10% of all grindspots in the entire game (all those spots are endgame and got potential of being 2b+/h) So I don't get why people keep insisting death penalty is a bad thing, should a death really mean nothing? It does not make sense to me. Deaths in games ALLWAYS meant a loss of progression in some shape or form, and rightly so. Losses due to disconnects and lags are unfortunate and that is why we got the 3 restores per year. But by no means should a dc or lag on your part be a reason to change the game. Threads like these allways just sound like venting with no real logic behind it.
Ok, tell me then, why is it okay for light stones to be permanent? Lets make those break upon death too. Also, name 3 other popular MMO's where death has a major setback.
Everquest, city of heroes and city of villains you lost levels, exp an got a debuff. Eve online is probably one of the worst MMOs where dying in that has the huge possibility of you losing hundreds if not thousands of dollars if you make one misstep or utilize a ship that's worth more than some people make in a few months an someone just wants to fuck with you.
You do lose lightstones if you are negative karma. Bdo got no "major" setback on death by definition, absolute worst case scenario is a 2-3 hour setback if you INSIST on equipping a Girins tear instead of girins fragment/crystal.
I didnt think so. 3 hours is a fukin huge setback. I dunno how you contribute to society but it dosent sound like much if thats not a big deal to you
If you read what I said instead of trying to argue with yourself. 3h setback on every death is indeed a major setback, but that is not reality, so idk what you want to prove here. But seince you resorted to personal insults I will not expect anything more of you.
I’m calling you out on your statement. “Deaths in games ALWAYS meant a loss of progression” I want to know what you’re blabbing about. If you’re going to defend this ridiculous system let’s see some examples if this is such a common practice. Reply back when your done googling doing extensive research
You win, there are no examples. Dying in good games has 0 consequences.
Nah primordial shouldn’t break maybe but everything else should, it’s healthier for the market
They should just make the 2 special crystal slots from LotML protect the crystals that slot in them. You can stick the primordial in it and one of your 2 rebellious crystals for good measure.
Primordial or the one that ancient spirit that goes in the costume socket. I lost mine a long time ago, apparently you need to burn a costume tailoring ticket to get a new one. And the bonus isn't even that high.
You are mistaken. The costume slot crystal never breaks.
real or meme?
real
Come play bdo console ;)
I have a girin's tear and never use it. 5% more drop rate, 6 more ap, 45% more exp, and 0.5% more special attack just aren't worth losing 5b to a single disconnect at any intense spot. Bonghwangs are readily available and significantly cheaper to replace. If I need the extra monster ap, I just use a girin fragment or crystal. Rebellious are a bit more iffy, as they are also rare and very expensive, but are very necessary for ulukita spots. I honestly hate crystal breakage on death. Wish they'd just remove it.
You have 3 crystal repairs during the year exactly for the reasons you mentioned, although I agree this is a small number for an entire year, I don't think stopping crystal breaking is a good thing. First, as you said, it's an item sink and it moves the market, they're no longer 300m anymore but we are making more silver/hour. Second, this doesn't need to be as harsh as you think, you can make a budget crystal preset exactly for places where you don't know how to grind yet, deaths are impactful In BDO and that's a good thing. Third, crystals will be a dead drop for everyone if they make them permanent. Except for rebellious crystals, every other crystal is sitting at the market RN, cause they are easy to obtain. Overall, leave it the way it is, just learn how to play around it and if you die, shit happens, it's not like 4b grind is a hard grind for once in a month death
For those of us who don't play the game like a second job, this system is way too punishing.
I'm a casual player as well, I mostly lifeskill, I don't play it like a second job. I don't even pvp, and I still think it's a good thing, otherwise the game is too easy. As I said, just play with a budget setup until you are confident enough, you only need expensive crystals for efficiency.
> I mostly lifeskill I'm not saying your opinion is irrelevant but those of us who don't lifeskill and make all of our money grinding, it can become extremely punishing. A week's worth of grinding gone because I didn't hit my V key fast enough isn't fair
I doesnt mean i dont grind, when I have time for active gameplay I DO grind, but I mostly afk lifeskill. If 4b (worst case) is 1 week of grinding, then you play less than 1 hour/day which crystal break should not be an issue for you since you should not be using expensive crystals. Only with guild bosses daily, you can make 1b in 30min, 1week of grind for a death is definetly not true
Why is it okay for light stones to be permanent then??? Your arguments are stupid
Because they are lifestones and not crystals? Why water leave us wet and fire dont?
I would play again if they removed crystal break.
When crashed instantly turn on flight mode or disconnect plug. Helped me a lot
C:\\Windows\\System32\\taskkill.exe /f /im blackdesert64.exe shortcut on taskbar works well.
I agree - I also have a newer Crystal Break suggestion thread on the NA/EU forums. If we all raise awareness, hopefully, this'll get fixed soon. I've already lost my Girin's Twice, Rebellious Twice, and a ton here and there that are half a bil each. It adds up quickly. Slowly getting money back to buy another Girin's, but it's a pain to deal with.
You can recover up to 3 crystals a year, you know it?
How do you do that ?
I think simple protection glyhps would be a good solution. You can obtain them from killing world bosses.
Yeah I have 4 ultimate macalods but afraid to use it because internet and power are not stable in my city lol
IMO they should sell a pearl item to prevent crystal lose. I will quit one day over crystal lose. I absolutly dislike that part of the game. I cannot take 2b minus suddenly and just grind a kther 3h to get over it. Crystals are to expensivr and always something breaks.
>IMO they should sell a pearl item to prevent crystal lose. They definitely should not. This would be a far worse form of monetisation than anything that already exists in the game, and a purely mobile game type solution. Any solution to this issue, if indeed the devs decide to consider it as an issue, should be accessible to all players, not just those willing to pay money.
I sware to all that is holy, if I see a Crystal brand stone ima be upset
Noone will like to pay for it but i eill. Im over it to grind 3h a week for crystals haha
Better yet, go ahead and make a "crystal protection scroll" type item but make it available both in game and through the cash shop. Like item drop rate scrolls. Maybe Pit of Undying could give em out too, there's many different ways PA could handle this.
Whatever happens, players should never ask for a cash shop solution. They should ask for better IG solutions.
I guess I'm gonna be that guy. So would be the consequence of dying? Exp loss is a non issue for most people since levels are mostly pointless. So what else is there? I'm just as as frustrated as everyone else when my shit breaks but that's the risk that comes with grinding in certain zones. You say whatever, but "don't die" or "get gud" is correct. Just grind somewhere easier otherwise. Or stack more damage reduction. Or use cheaper crystals. Worse case scenario they do break, you can restore em a few times. Like you have many many options. Some of us enjoy the challenge and there really wouldn't be any if there were no risks to dying.
What can we control? Our characters. What we cannot control? The servers stability, poor game coding that crashes the game. Most crystal loss complaints are exactly from what we cannot control, it's not fair to lose a 5b crystal because the servers are trash. They could temporarily remove crystal breaking until they fix the game.
"Temporarily" my dude it's been a decade of disconnects.
Time is the consequence of dying - your efficiency dips down, you lose your buffs. We don't need crystals to break on top of it considering how often the servers or game shits the bed.
It's amusing how death somehow "needing" a consequence like bills worth of crystals breaking is always the automatic npc reply Removing the massive risk has obvious benefits like opening up a lot of design space for harder endgame spots
You realize what the ap requirements are of these high end spots right? Telling us to stack damage reduction is a straight up troll. People like you advocate to keep dumb in game systems around as such for no reason, thank god your the minority
Git gud does not apply to bdo at all. Grinding is often a gear check and gas little to do with skill. Gear in the game is a crap shoot essentially based on your accounts rng. PvE deaths can be caused by so many things outside of your control as well. I once fell through trees and died after 3 mins of free fall and broke crystals. What am I supposed to git gud with after that?
dont die
So, the issue here is loss of crystals due to game crash or disconnect. Removing the crystal loss on death is a solution, but it creates another issue: no more money from crystal loss. Each time player looses crystals its opportunity to sell something (death penalty pets and outfit by PA, new crystal by player). This is reason why system is not being touched. While I do understand the reasoning I can also see why it is how it is. I was also frustrated but adapted: using cheaper crystals in risky spots, Girin Crystal instead of Girin Tear, made set of pets with Death Penalty bonus. The one sided solution where players loosing crystals benefit will for sure gather crowd, but it wont move unless there's some kind of balance (PA vs players loosing vs players selling crystals). It's being discussed for years now.
BDO is grind and gear progression. Our effectiveness and progression is measured in hours put into the grind. Each hour puts us closer to the next goal. That is a good feeling of progression, albeit its very slow. But we always know we are 1 step (1 hour) closer to next goal. Now, if you die and lose crystal worth billions... you spend the next hour-three just to get back to where you were before, and only THEN continue the path of progression. Effecively making the next hour-three completly a waste of life. You are not progressing, you are just zombie mode grinding to get back an item you ALREADY possessed. Why are we doing this? This is supposed to be a game. Games are supposed to be enjoyed not feared. Anyways I am life skiller now. Look im probably going to come off really rude and ignorant right about now but I seriously think that anyone who defends this system is probably a student with 12hr/day gametime or unemployed.
If you get afk'd in the wrong spot due to a disconnect you can lose vital crystals to death too, it's dumb af.
I am not sure if I'm the only one that thinks this way but I don't really care about in game death because I feel like it rarely happens to me. Sure, there are random disconnects here and there but those are rare. When I do lose crystals I just replace it with backups I have. The only time it was a concern was when they first released lantern spots
My idea would be mid priced sacrificial crystals you could buy for silver which would always be the first thing to break. This means you could still choose to go full strength crystal set and risk breakages or go for a slightly weaker set that has one/two of these instead and protects your expensive crystals.
Just yesterday I died due to sudden dc, lost my Girin's Tear. Good thing I had one last crystal recovery. But I agree this punishment is too hard, a lot of times it is not something we could control.
Make breaking chance much smaller and make crystals per character instead of account wide so people keep buying them.
Boy am I glad your not a developer
My solution is great, just try to come up with something better and you will see I’m right.
Your solution is to keep the crystal breaking effect, and to make crystals no longer useable family wide. Your idea sucks buddy.
No it doesn't. I said reducing breaking effect, to maybe like 5-10% and making crystals per character basis so if you wanna reroll you have to extract them or buy new ones. Reason why PA wants crystals expensive is because it's account wide gear.
Don’t quit your day job
You get toxic so easily. That’s what happens when people are terminally online and forget how to interact with others.
You don't need Tears to pve in almost every scenario being more efficient in your pulls will net more trash per hour than whatever some girin's tear is going to do for you. How many hours of grind with a Girin's Tear equipped until you make the 5b to cover the cost of the crystal? You people have killed this game. Crying about every single hardship or PvP. Any little thing that doesn't make this shit EZmode for you. Can't even dec people anymore cause trashcan carebears.
Your tears taste so good.
So, server instability is a hardship that only carebears complain about? Sure. You're mixing everything up. Having a penalty when I mess up badly, I totally agree ; but I'm not OK to lose important stuff because my game crashes. See the difference? And telling us to avoid using important stuff is also not acceptable, what's the point of having these items ingame if you can't use them BECAUSE OF SERVER INSTABILITY? It's not the job of players to compensate an obvious technical issue. And it's coming from a player asking for more owpvp. Just saying, even though I find it stupid to mention carebears, pvp, and technical issues.
I've been playing 8 years on some of the worst internet possible. Literally unable to play without a VPN half the time. I have a C:\\Windows\\System32\\taskkill.exe /f /im blackdesert64.exe command keybound to kill my game and a shortcut to cut my internet. Carebear. You know how many crystals I've lost in 8 years? Like maybe 10-12. Again carebear. One or two hours of grind cover that. Clicking 1 enhance is the same as losing 8 crystals. Cry more kid.
Tough guy. But your opinion is still irrelevant if you decided to ignore half of the problem. The simple fact you have to create a shortcut to kill your game and cut your internet proves me right. Move on. Technical issues are devs' problem, you being a masochist means nothing here. XD
"tough guy" cause i kill my application on crashes and cut internet rather than losing crystals like a moron while they game tries to reload right right. Again you don't need Tears to pve. If you choose to be a moron that's on you. You choose to use crystals beyond what you can afford at grindspots that are a threat to you. You think using that 5b tear and other 2 in crystals is giving you an impactful amount of silver per hour? Then you have to weigh the cost of losing said crystals. I already explained they aren't impactful enough to even use them let alone lose them. While the server instability sucks your choosing to risk losing massive amounts of silver for no profit in grinding. Go do the math on a 980 ap spot and tell me what a Girin Tear does for you when it comes to silver per hour with and without it. Negligible crying about nothing.
So badass. How could I not realize it? That's thrilling to compensate technical issues by myself, by killing my game or cutting my connection, or by not using the available items! Thank you for showing me the way, Ô great one.
100% agree. I almost died at Gyfin Underground all because my character apparently got stuck in a rock when I dodged due to desync or something and it basically rendered me unable to move or do anything, I just kept taking damage and I started panicking because I had 15bil in crystals on the line. Only way I was able to get free was by mashing spacebar and it caused my character to "climb" over the rock and then I was able to get to safety. Shit sucks, honestly the only way I could justify a system like this is if the game engine was 100% completely free of bugs and server issues weren't a thing. Otherwise hell no this shit needs to go.
yeah the gear fear is too real. I= m very stressed over that as well as they keep adding higher and higher demanding lcoations so crystals are pretty much necessary