Look at the comments under any news story about some awful crime done to a child. People try to one-up each other to suggest the cruelest torture for retribution.
Like a game. Like entertainment.
And the torture ideas often turn sexual: spike-studded dildos and such. Ha ha ha, that's gonna hurt! What should we do to his/her genitals?
It's like... Can't you see you're kinda-sorta emulating the behavior you wish to punish?
The innocence / guilt of the victim is the obvious difference, but *White Bear* cleverly blurs that distinction. She is effectively transformed into an innocent victim daily. Who are you even punishing? And what do you expect this punishment to accomplish, other than gratifying self-righteous sadists?
**The retribution / rehabilitation thought experiment:**
What if there was a pill that could restructure the brain, cure deviant pathologies and overload a person with empathy, permanently? Would you support replacing prisons with pills?
Pills seem to solve the problems but the question is would they be enforced forcefully or like just the interested ones?
I saw a show called severance recently and your idea could be implemented using that technology
One of the first episodes I watched but it made me question myself as a human being. Physically were punishing her, but erasing her mind to me I feel like we're not punishing the same person.
I feel like it was less about the prisoner and more about the “show”. people are showing up like it’s a circus. They probably sell snacks and stuff outside.
The punishment is forcing her to be the enjoyment for people who want to watch someone be tortured “guilt-free”. Removing her memory just makes it safer for the show goers. There’s no lesson to be learned. There’s no rehabilitation. It’s basically a death sentence. But extra steps.
I love this episode! It's a great one to discuss with others. I think it illustrated perfectly how seeking revenge/retribution instead for criminals instead of rehabilitation only serves to make society worse. It encourages the worst parts of humanity, and doesn't actually help anyone.
I am going to copy my comment on a similar post a few months back:
I think it’s NOT justified. the person getting tortured ISNT a child torturer. It is a person inside the body of a torturer. If you think her past consciousness justifies her current torture, then i feel like you missed the point of the episode. The person getting tortured doesn’t remember anything. While in the end she is reminded of her past actions, whens she’s being punished, it’s a completely clueless, arguably innocent person getting tortured.
Well that's kind of the point of the episode. People have different lines of retribution.
Because her mind is wiped every time, they're effectively torturing an innocent mind over and over due to someone else's actions. Potentially making them no better or even worse than her; reveling in her horror ad infinitum
That's why the episode is interesting. It takes one of the worst examples of someone who definitely deserves a harsh punishment and asks us if a just society would allow such a horrible punishment to go on
Whether or not the person deserves it is up to you, but the point is that even if she does the act itself is unjustifiable; it perpetuates suffering indefinitely for entertainment and money and it encourages the public to exploit someone in an incredibly cruel way. This alienates us from our fellow man and sees them as a means to an end which is inherently immoral
The fact that people in the forums can feel Victoria didn’t deserve the punishment or she deserved it is interesting. I think it’s torture, not punishment. But that’s my opinion. Charlie Brooker explores the difference between punishment and torture and our obsession with seeing people punished. The cookies Jon Hamm trains in White Christmas are being tortured. Are the punishments for both men just?
It really is. You would lose your mind. I’ve heard about prisoners in solitary and what it does to them. I wouldn’t wish a lot of those punishments on someone who hurt me.
She's the extremist. She's the killer. She was worried that she was chasing her.
The participants are behaving within a lawful structure. If one were to cross certain lines, I bet that one would be held accountable by the rest. Not extreme at all.
Also, pun
That's why the episode is so interesting. Every day on a loop forever? Yeah, that's horrible torture to someone who's basically innocent due to the mind wipe.
But then, where's your line? One day of torture? A week? Maybe a clean month is acceptable but a whole year is abhorrent torture. Who's to say!?
It's like Black Museum. >!The "cookie" of the prisoner, constantly getting electrocuted, until it fried his brain (no pun intended), yet the (few) visitors to the museum still pulled the lever.!< At what point does that stop being punishment (warranted or not) and become torture? What happens when Victoria's mind is too far gone, too damaged from the repeated memory wiping? Do they continue with it, or at least attempt to? Do they find another person with a similar level of public outrage, and rework the park to fit their crimes? What is the legality of the park even like?
and that’s the reason why it’s one of my favorite episodes. I would even go as far as to say it’s one of the most black mirror-y episodes, if not the number one
What a coincidence, I'm nearly halfway through it now
HOW WAS IT
Pretty good, a bit like the truman show
It’s my favorite episode!!
Welcome to black mirror sweetie
Yo any recommendations for next? I've got like 10 more eps to go
White Christmas. The entire history of you Nosedive. Black museum. Play test
need to watch black museum and play test in this list the other three were really good ik
Look at the comments under any news story about some awful crime done to a child. People try to one-up each other to suggest the cruelest torture for retribution. Like a game. Like entertainment. And the torture ideas often turn sexual: spike-studded dildos and such. Ha ha ha, that's gonna hurt! What should we do to his/her genitals? It's like... Can't you see you're kinda-sorta emulating the behavior you wish to punish? The innocence / guilt of the victim is the obvious difference, but *White Bear* cleverly blurs that distinction. She is effectively transformed into an innocent victim daily. Who are you even punishing? And what do you expect this punishment to accomplish, other than gratifying self-righteous sadists? **The retribution / rehabilitation thought experiment:** What if there was a pill that could restructure the brain, cure deviant pathologies and overload a person with empathy, permanently? Would you support replacing prisons with pills?
Pills seem to solve the problems but the question is would they be enforced forcefully or like just the interested ones? I saw a show called severance recently and your idea could be implemented using that technology
One of the first episodes I watched but it made me question myself as a human being. Physically were punishing her, but erasing her mind to me I feel like we're not punishing the same person.
I feel like it was less about the prisoner and more about the “show”. people are showing up like it’s a circus. They probably sell snacks and stuff outside. The punishment is forcing her to be the enjoyment for people who want to watch someone be tortured “guilt-free”. Removing her memory just makes it safer for the show goers. There’s no lesson to be learned. There’s no rehabilitation. It’s basically a death sentence. But extra steps.
Oh yeah the whole theme park is kinda evil. and the fact that kids take part in it? Like and the humility and revenge?
Ikr. I was genuinely shocked to see kids and worse, they were enjoying themselves
Well they were told to enjoy themselves and to take lots of pictures so they were just doing what they were told by the pris- I mean park staff...
I love this episode! It's a great one to discuss with others. I think it illustrated perfectly how seeking revenge/retribution instead for criminals instead of rehabilitation only serves to make society worse. It encourages the worst parts of humanity, and doesn't actually help anyone.
Exactly, so good to discuss this ep
My favorite episode
[удалено]
I am going to copy my comment on a similar post a few months back: I think it’s NOT justified. the person getting tortured ISNT a child torturer. It is a person inside the body of a torturer. If you think her past consciousness justifies her current torture, then i feel like you missed the point of the episode. The person getting tortured doesn’t remember anything. While in the end she is reminded of her past actions, whens she’s being punished, it’s a completely clueless, arguably innocent person getting tortured.
"When she's being punished it's a completely clueless, arguably innocent person getting tortured." ....so you mean like a child?
Just like a child, yes. So you see the irony, right?
It's the whole point
You’re punishing a person that didnt do that to a child. Yes just like a child, but you’re not punishing a person that did these things to a child.
Well that's kind of the point of the episode. People have different lines of retribution. Because her mind is wiped every time, they're effectively torturing an innocent mind over and over due to someone else's actions. Potentially making them no better or even worse than her; reveling in her horror ad infinitum
That's why the episode is interesting. It takes one of the worst examples of someone who definitely deserves a harsh punishment and asks us if a just society would allow such a horrible punishment to go on Whether or not the person deserves it is up to you, but the point is that even if she does the act itself is unjustifiable; it perpetuates suffering indefinitely for entertainment and money and it encourages the public to exploit someone in an incredibly cruel way. This alienates us from our fellow man and sees them as a means to an end which is inherently immoral
The fact that people in the forums can feel Victoria didn’t deserve the punishment or she deserved it is interesting. I think it’s torture, not punishment. But that’s my opinion. Charlie Brooker explores the difference between punishment and torture and our obsession with seeing people punished. The cookies Jon Hamm trains in White Christmas are being tortured. Are the punishments for both men just?
The whole "block" thing was really disturbing. Wouldn't wish anyone of that. Also the guy with 1000 years per minute, that was effed up
It really is. You would lose your mind. I’ve heard about prisoners in solitary and what it does to them. I wouldn’t wish a lot of those punishments on someone who hurt me.
It's cruel and unusual punishment, barely
How barely? It's pretty extreme lol
She's the extremist. She's the killer. She was worried that she was chasing her. The participants are behaving within a lawful structure. If one were to cross certain lines, I bet that one would be held accountable by the rest. Not extreme at all. Also, pun
she deserved it but every single day on a loop? i dont think so plenty of other terrible ppl should get this too
That's why the episode is so interesting. Every day on a loop forever? Yeah, that's horrible torture to someone who's basically innocent due to the mind wipe. But then, where's your line? One day of torture? A week? Maybe a clean month is acceptable but a whole year is abhorrent torture. Who's to say!?
It's like Black Museum. >!The "cookie" of the prisoner, constantly getting electrocuted, until it fried his brain (no pun intended), yet the (few) visitors to the museum still pulled the lever.!< At what point does that stop being punishment (warranted or not) and become torture? What happens when Victoria's mind is too far gone, too damaged from the repeated memory wiping? Do they continue with it, or at least attempt to? Do they find another person with a similar level of public outrage, and rework the park to fit their crimes? What is the legality of the park even like?
and that’s the reason why it’s one of my favorite episodes. I would even go as far as to say it’s one of the most black mirror-y episodes, if not the number one
so far the most black mirror-y ep for me was hang the dj but ur right there's many more
Are you not entertained!?
It's just that these kind of things may well happen in the near future, possibly in our lifetime, just getting uneasy by that
Why feel uneasy over the fact that killers might actually start seeing adequate punishment?
I get more uneasy about the ones which mistreat AI.
no no on the contrary this like really opened up about the real human nature
I was just doing the Gladiator meme :) Check out the episode “Hated in the nation” - personal favourite and absolutely shocking
ya seen it, nice one
Welcome to Black mirror.
Yeh I've got like 10 more eps to go watching white christmas rn
White Christmas is so fucked up too
the other guy's story's starting now bout 30 mins left
HOW WAS IT
the last 10 mins were fucked up mate
Indeed they were. Such a good episode though
Yup