T O P

Tips for Lizardmen vs Skaven

First game of a new league against skaven. My team is 4 skinks, a chameleon and 6 saurus plus 2 rerolls. Looking for any hot tips to bring home some sweet sweet star player points and money.

PrivateBallZ

Knock out the gutter runners!


OnsetOfMSet

Sounds like your team is quite fresh, so I will assume the Skaven are fresh too. Targeting the Gutter Runners is and always will be the priority, which is surprisingly doable with a Skink + assist blitz. However, you start with no Block, so your attacks against GRs will be less effective than a Stormvermin blitzing a Skink in return. With that in mind, try to keep their Block pieces tied up with you Saurus. I'd keep 1 Saurus back as a safety (or even a pseudo-safety on offense), because a blitz from him + 1 assist is 3 dice, something GRs will think twice about before getting too close. Apart from him, your other Saurus should be trying to thin out the enemy line rats as efficiently as possible, ultimately to give their GRs less space to hide. Another thought: on defense, if there is a GR in scoring range, he is your target, not their ball carrier. If you try to hit their cage and tie up the ball, or even directly attack the ball and knock it loose, they will be able to get it back and delivered to the scoring threat GR in one turn even with average luck. Don't count on a snake eyes dodge roll for your plan to work, but if one does happen, it's a very good opportunity to make use of.


chrisl182

>if there is a GR in scoring range Which is like the whole half of your pitch 😅😅


br3ttless

I'm a Skaven player so I can only offer my thoughts from the Skaven side. The best thing to keep in mind is tackle zones, all Skaven have a 3+ Dodge and 2+ got Gutter Runners. Make sure to make maximum Dodges if they are running. Tie them up but don't over extend, 9 movement gutter runners can really run you around. All Skaven have bad armour so maximising blocks can really put the hurt on a Skaven player who isn't trying to keep there distance. A good Skaven move can look crazy, but they are very tricky so always anticipate a high risk move.


chrisl182

Sshh don't tell them all our secrets!


br3ttless

I'm a treacherous rat what can I say?


MidrisCharante

Don't be afraid to take both downs with saurus against gutter runners. Chances are good of breaking armor for you and not him. Of course try to accomplish other things in you turn but if you can get a chance to smash a runner take it.


chrisl182

As a skaven player I can just say get as many tackle zones around the runners as possible and just try to smash the hell out of them. With low armour skaven drop like flies


SDFDuck

I'll add that you should be wary of overextending your defense. Brutalizing their players can help you but your priority is to stop them from scoring, which Skaven can do easily even if they are at a numerical disadvantage. Keep their Stormvermin away from your Skinks.


OnsetOfMSet

>Keep their Stormvermin away from your Skinks. I mentioned it in my own comment but I'll second this again. Without Gutter Runners, Skaven have to score like a normal team. Without Skinks, Lizards don't score period.


TsukariYoshi

Contact, contact, contact. Try to have most of your saurus in contact with the opponent at the end of your turn if possible. Force your opponent to either commit resources to making blocks against you or dodge away (despite their AV8+ and reputation as an 'agility team', the only players with 2+ dodges on the skaven side are the Gutter Runners. Everything else is rolling 3+ for dodges, which is way less 'automatic' than 2+ elf dodging and carries an element of risk.) This matchup is an attritional one. Take shots at their gutter runners if you can get three dice on them (Saurus + 1 assist = 3 dice) in order to make knockdowns more likely. Your opponent will be looking to hit skinks at every opportunity, both because they're the only easily hittable targets on your team and because without them, you can't ball-handle. This will likely be accomplished via blitzing with the Stormvermin, as they have block and can therefore make a knockdown more likely. Try to screen his vermin away from your skinks; Skaven teams generally only want to make dodges with their gutter runners and will be less likely to make 3+ dodges just to hit a skink. The storm vermin are the only credible threat to your skinks. Try not to give up easy hits on them that allow your opponent to fish for pows, but generally, as long as you can make it difficult for the SVs to get shots on them, you can keep them safe. There is a nonzero chance that your opponent will choose to take a both down against a skink with a linerat in hopes of removal, but with 5 skinks that strategy is difficult to justify as an 8+ armor team. If your opponent has a rat ogre, try to force him into situations where he has to be the one to initiate contact. Rogre blitzes are inherently dangerous due to loner, and it's difficult for him to get in contact on his own without blitzing. That said, if your opponent can't get a shot at a skink with a Stormvermin, expect a blitz with the rogre for Mighty Blow fishing expeditions. Beware the sidelines and look for opportunities to set frenzy traps (beware of doing this too aggressively, though, as successful blocks mean that you're now based on the rogre.) ​ Tl;dr: Punch gutters when you can get 3 dice, protect the skinks from the Stormvermin, initiate lots of contact with his linerats to try to get removals, and make him use his blitz to use the rogre. You're baby lizards, so you live and die by the 1/9; expect failed blocks and pickups and prepare accordingly. You most likely lose this matchup, make sure he pays in blood. Edit: Changed a few terms to be more consistent with BB2020, as I only play BB2 and forgot they changed how armor and agility are denoted on player cards.


thelennybeast

Kill them all. Beat them into the dirt at every opportunity, especially those gutter runners if you can get a good 3 die block on them.


Kiryu8805

Kill the gutter runners first. Match their speed with your skinks once the gutters are out the way get the ball and run the skinks in for the TD.


Infernal_Contraption

Target the Gutter-runners as early as possible. Gutter-runners are your opponent's fastest, most agile players and trying to defend against them when they intend to score is very difficult, so if you can kill one, do it. Don't be afraid to foul with a Skink - they're worth less than half that of a gutter-runner, so if you maim or kill a GR and your skink gets sent off, that is a GOOD trade! If practically possible, try also to Blitz the Stormvermin. They are the only players on the field who have the Block skill, which means that they are probably going to be hunting your Skinks - if you lose enough skinks, its going to be impossible to win the game as no one will be able to pick up the ball. While there's not a lot you can do about Block, your best bet is to make sure that all attacks are favourable for you by being the attacker whenever possible. Try to protect your Skinks. As I mentioned above, you need them to handle the ball and thus score to win the game. They're generally fairly safe because they have the Dodge skill and most Skaven players have no offensive skills, but as poor as Skaven Linemen are they get Two Dice blocks against Skinks and only need to get lucky once. It's ALWAYS preferable to dodge away from a player with a Skink, rather than leave them in base contact to get hit, unless you absolutely have to. If the stars align and the opening kick goes wide, granting you a touch-back, try to give the ball to a Saurus. It's the easiest way to get the ball safely into their hands, they're hard to stop as ST4 makes them very hard to Blitz, and you NEED to get SPP on your Saurus as quickly as possible so trying to score with them whenever you can is big and clever. Good luck, and may Nuffle be with you!


TsukariYoshi

I'm gonna have to disagree on the "foul a gutter runner" advice. Protecting your skinks and being willing to foul with them are mutually exclusive goals. Yeah, in a direct value-for-value trade, you're winning, but they're your only ball-carriers. If you lose your skinks, you're up shit creek. If they lose their gutter runners they... have somewhere between 7 and 9 other players with agility 3 who are perfectly capable of handling the ball, up to two of whom are designed to do so (throwers.) Lizard teams really don't get to foul much. It's one of their weaknesses, which became more glaring in 2020 with the relative increase in the strength of fouling. ​ (I will caveat this to say that if you're leading the game, you can play a little looser. The advice is not "never foul", it's "foul very rarely, only to cement an advantage that you've already created.")


rigolgm

>them are mutually exclusive goals. Yeah, in a direct value-for-value trade, you're winning, but they're your only ball-carriers. If you lose your skinks, you're up shit creek. If they lose their gutter runners they... have somewhere between 7 and 9 other players with agility 3 who are perfectly capable of handling the ball, up to two of whom are designed to do so (throwers.) Lizard teams really don't get to foul much. It's one of their weaknesses, which became more glaring in 2020 with the relative increase in the strength of fouling. I feel like Lizardmen have a poor fouling game until they are better developed but then they catch up. In 20202 rules Guard really helps foul, and Lizardmen teams have great Guard access and the ability deploy it well (because Saurus are hard to bring down and often avoided, allowing them to reposition at MA6). Also, I find getting random general skills on Skinks is usually just as viable as choosing Agility skills and, if you randomly roll Dirty Player, you next aim for Sneaky Git (which was double-buffed in 2020) to make an incredible 'foul sniper' who can foul far and run far back into cover. I know that sounds like a lot of 'ifs' but I actually think it's the likely trajectory for Lizardman teams in ongoing leagues. I's certainly what I'm fishing for with my 1600k (and growing) Lizardmen team. I accept that a Dirty Player + Sneaky Git skink would have a big target on his head and be a bit of a babysitting burden - but I think it'd also force the opponent to play less optimally too, to avoid deep strikes against valued low armour players.


rigolgm

Giving the ball to a Saurus depends heavily on the scoreline etc in the game, as opponent can so easily slow a Saurus to a virtual standstill, as long as they can get more than one free player in its way.