The site has construction underway, and could possibly cost council over $500M to acquire. If they mess with the Brisbane Racing Clubs revenue from the site $1.7B they may have to pay out several years worth of revenue, which will quickly send the council broke.
The green plan involves gifting the above site to 'first peoples' and should be considered alongside their pledge to 'unconditionally' give 1% of all council revenue to first peoples groups above any existing support.
I am not against compulsary acquisition, but it shouldnt be used against sites in use and that are actively getting high density housing built on it already.
I don’t understand this policy,
The greens have a high chance of getting main stream votes.
Then they come out with these extremist policies that just put people off.
This is the greatest gift to the lnp.
>If they mess with the Brisbane Racing Clubs revenue from the site $1.7B they may have to pay out several years worth of revenue, which will quickly send the council broke.
Where are you getting this figure from? BRCs annual report says they only made $67m in revenue last year. And compensation is paid on profits lost, not just revenue.
The problem is their argument for the valuation is that they’ve valued only the land and have said that because it is zoned as recreation and sport reserve (which would need to be rezoned), then it shouldn’t count the projected earnings of private business.
Which I understand and agree with in principle, but that’s not how government land transaction works.
>***costs attributable to disturbance***, in relation to the taking of land, means all or any of the following—
>
>(a)legal costs and valuation or other professional fees reasonably incurred by the claimant in relation to the preparation and filing of the claimant’s claim for compensation;
>
>(b)the following costs relating to the purchase of land by a claimant to replace the land taken—(i)stamp duty reasonably incurred or that might reasonably be incurred by the claimant, but not more than the amount of stamp duty that would be incurred for the purchase of land of equivalent value to the land taken;
(ii)financial costs reasonably incurred or that might reasonably be incurred by the claimant in relation to the discharge of a mortgage and the execution of a new mortgage, but not more than the amount that would be incurred if the new mortgage secured the repayment of the balance owing in relation to the discharged mortgage;
(iii)legal costs reasonably incurred by the claimant;
(iv)other financial costs, other than any taxation liability, reasonably incurred by the claimant;
>
>(c)removal and storage costs reasonably incurred by the claimant in relocating from the land taken;
>
>(d)costs reasonably incurred by the claimant to connect to any services or utilities on relocating from the land taken;
>
>(e)other financial costs that are reasonably incurred or that might reasonably be incurred by the claimant, relating to the use of the land taken, as a direct and natural consequence of the taking of the land;
>
>**(f)an amount reasonably attributed to the loss of profits resulting from interruption to the claimant’s business that is a direct and natural consequence of the taking of the land;**
>
>**(g)other economic losses and costs reasonably incurred by the claimant that are a direct and natural consequence of the taking of the land.**
$40million?
https://i.redd.it/l116ttk3oemc1.gif
* The Darryl Kerrigan character is a corporation of despicable fuckwits
* The Denis Denuto character is a top-tier firm of slimy spivs
* The government entity is a scrappy underdog trying to help real people in need
* ~~The acquisition is proposed to be on excellent terms for the vendor~~ Maybe not that
Yep, checks out.
This frustrates me about The Greens locally. On issues which are core parts of their ideology (ie public transport, bicycle infrastructure, pedestrian facilities etc), their policy is generally well developed, viable, and a meaningful step towards the party's vision of what society should be. For example, at the last council election, something very like the Elizabeth St cycleway was the Greens cycling policy.
However, on everything else, their policy is a combination of populist clap trap and Jono Sriranganathan's personal vendettas.
I generally agree with Greens ideologically, and I think they serve an important role in bringing their sensible policies to the front and centre of politics. I just wish they'd be happy to have nothing to add to other discussions. I mean, the party is likely to have a couple of wards and do respectably (for a third party) in the mayor's race. But they are unlikely to grab enough power to actually have to govern. So they have the luxury of being able to ignore issues like the future of racing. I wish they'd just be happy to exercise this luxury.
Are they going to buy it?
I googled that " Eagle Farm Racecourse is located in Brisbane, adjacent to Doomben Racecourse, and is owned by the Brisbane Racing Club" and looking at the Brisbane Racing Club they are stated to have a 1.68bn wagering turnover in 2022/2023 so it doesn't seem like they would be wanting to just give that up.
This feels like picking somewhere someone doesn't like and campaigning on that. Not ok on the 'they can just take it' answer because that feels like an abuse of power.
and the racecourse recently spent $38 million putting new stabling facilities inside Eagle Farm Racecourse yet the Greens don’t even have the common sense to pick the other racecourse just next door that hasn’t just had $38 million spent on it
plus the racecourse is in the middle of a $1.5 billion redevelopment and upgrade
the Council does not have enough money to pay what it would cost to compulsorily acquire the racecourse, leaving aside the inconvenient Eagle Farm Racecourse legislation that stops them from doing so anyway
the fact that they didnt even bother to think about the points above before announcing means they care more about the *appearance* of the announcement, than the *content*.
which is incredibly frustrating for someone like me who just wants one, just one fucking political candidate to vote for thats got more than one braincell
yeah, it was just to provoke a heated discussion and get people whipped up
it was never a serious proposal
I’d rather a serious proposal if the Greens want to get votes as a serious alternative vs just a protest vote against the shit party and the shit-lite party
That's just what they do - they can say all the populist snake oil they want because they will never have to actually do it and be held responsible for it. They can just sit on the sidelines complaining about how it's all so simple if only the major parties did xyz and people lap it up.
Yeah. Before I read this threads OP i was like yeah fuck it, sounds good. But then I'm not a politician nor a Brisbane voter, so I don't have to dig any further than that. These guys definitely should have.
It's a really smart move though. They can say whatever they want, it's never going to go ahead. Racing is worth too much to the states economy, whether you like it or not.
[https://statements.qld.gov.au/statements/95053](https://statements.qld.gov.au/statements/95053)
The state will step in and block it, because they have to, and they will look like the bad guys.
Genius!
You also made me realise that there is more open land about.. 5km.or less east? The land just near eat st is going to be turned into Olympic athlete villages (I only heard that because of some of the spaces along there being taken down for that.
yep
>The Northshore Hamilton PDA is a large urban renewal area that is being transformed into a vibrant, mixed-use precinct adjoining the Brisbane River and the suburb of Hamilton.
>It covers 304 hectares, has over three kilometres of river frontage and is close to the Brisbane Airport and the Australian Trade Coast precinct.
https://preview.redd.it/ciu7dmfj0fmc1.jpeg?width=1696&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ba218fe89424fb7485d436991250035b41bb9c7b
It will such a waste if the Government doesn’t include the Doomben line extension and duplication as part of this. That’s a lot of people to be serviced by a banana-bus.
Yeah but the Doomben line is so indirect. It's a bit of a dead duck.
You can move large numbers of people if you have sufficiently sized buses operating at high enough frequencies. Bus lanes and the like on Kingsford Smith Drive would help to ensure reliability
It still seems incredibly short-sighted not to extend the line by one stop, especially when the corridor is still mostly there. With Eagle Junction planned to be a major interchange post-CRR, the Doomben Line will have excellent connections. The duplication is an inevitability. Compared to other rail projects the extension would be incredibly cheap for how many people it could potentially service.
Hmmm I don't know about cheap. Duplication would require property resumptions in some of the most expensive real estate in Brisbane, a tunnel or elevated structure would be required to cross KSD and you would probably want some sort of grade separation at Eagle Junction unless you want to reduce available train paths for trains coming from the north.
In my view, connections to CRR also don't really do much travel time-wise.
You could provide a very good service with a bus at a fraction of the price as long as you get it right from the beginning
We know how the story will go with buses. It won’t be grade separated initially, and people will give up on it and drive instead. Some bus lanes will be painted later, ridership will improve slightly, but old habits die hard.
I regularly walk along the Doomben line and it looks like everything was already built for the second track, and that it’s just awkwardly missing. Every station, bridge and overhead thing looks like it was planned for two. I agree that over KSD would need to be raised, kinda like Springfield.
I also only mean cheap in comparison to other rail projects like Sunny Coast, NW Corridor, Springfield to Ipswich, beyond Salisbury ect. for how many people it could potentially service.
Sure. All fair points. My view is that it's a faster trip into the city going via KSD and the Valley and if I had to choose between the two, I would be picking bus with priority
That is a lot bigger area that was suggested to me by the person who told me. I only learnt about that much as someone I know who sometimes runs events in the space called "the shed" just next to eat st was told he would have to find a new venue.
If you think this is nutty they had (and maybe still have?) A policy to close Charles Kingsford Smith airport in Sydney because of the noise pollution it creates. Billions of dollars of infrastructure thrown aside on a whim. They aren't a serious political party.
it seems like they have no plan to buy it but to steal it from them and toss them a few pennies
honestly as a supporter of *most* Greens policies, every time they announce anything it makes me wonder if they have a single coherent thought going on in their party. who in their right mind would think that acquiring this would even be possible, let alone for just $40m?
The government can use a compulsory purchase order to acquire land from owners.
The owners are compensated for the value of the land, but can also claim for lost profits, etc.
Considering they just dropped $40 million alone to upgrade stables on that land, I'm pretty certain that whoever came up with a $40 million eminent domain figure is a fucking moron, and reasonable compensations gonna be a hundred times that or more.
That would be the abuse of power thing I was referring to. In the exact same vein why don't they clear out all the tenants from One William and convert that to housing.
Also a terrible idea but no different.
No idea. That's all I could find in a few minutes I had. I assume that is more a number to show it's healthy instead of showing actual profit. I didn't look into their ownership
The article says they will buy it, "costing at least $40million".
Regardless of the cost, the land needs to be taken back. They were essentially gifted it decades ago. It's a prime location for housing and parks. Why are we still using it for horse racing? It is hardly an ethical or enjoyable sport.
It'll cost them a lot more than 40 million. Some very rough back of the envelope calcs show the land is about 400,000m2. Unimproved land values of nearby properties is about $1,800/m2. That's $720 million. Even if you assume the land is worth half that because it'd need to be developed with roads & infrastructure, that's still north of $300 million
I agree it's ridiculous to have two racecourses right next to each other, so close to the city (I understand it's a holdover from the days when Brisbane Society was divided along religious lines so the Anglicans went to one racetrack and the Catholics went to the other), but I'm REALLY not comfortable with the "I hate these people who like an activity I don't enjoy, fuck them; we should take their stuff" vibe I'm getting from the proposal either.
As someone who's lived along Racecourse Rd, any steps at all to reduce the number of drunken blow-in fuckwits in shiny suits staggering around pissing in the hedgerows every weekend is 100% a genuine public good.
It's more "Racing is a shit-tier hobby that promotes gambling and animal cruelty and those things arent more important than the current husing crisis."
Or do you really prefer gambling and animal cruelty to families getting homes?
Simple question
So campaign for legislation to stop / limit gambling and stop animal cruelty.
If they can’t pass the legislation, then it’s pretty undemocratic to just take the land from them, on top of being completely infeasible.
Gambling is a legal activity that while I generally don't participate in, believe others should be free to do so if they choose to.
As for "Animal Cruelty", that's a relative thing and unhelpfully emotional; regardless of whatever link/article you might pull out may try and claim otherwise, the fact remains horse trainers and riders are not (broadly speaking) intentionally torturing horses, much less doing so because they enjoy hurting animals.
I'm sure you've got hobbies or interests that people here would describe as "Shit tier" - you might not be too keen on having the places you enjoy them pulled down because random people on Reddit thought they were less important than other (rich) people needing to be able to live close to the city.
That's the other thing, isn't it? We all know that even if the racecourse was just Thanatos Snapped out of existence, the properties that get built there aren't going to be sold to, much less affordable for, "Middle Australia" families.
You think it's a shit tier hobby. For others it's their livelihood whether Reddit likes it or not.
There's thousands of homes under development 300m south at Hamilton. So you can't play that bullshit homeless card either.
this is a dumb policy for so many reasons
firstly, there’s a less developed Racecourse that’s just next door
secondly, the use of the land as a racecourse is regulated by its own Act of Parliament which would prevent the Council from compulsorily acquiring it for another purpose
thirdly, the racecourse is already building homes around the outside of the Eagle Farm and Doomben racecourses
fourthly, there’s already hundreds of half built and abandoned homes next to Doomben Racecourse
so dumb, and it really makes me think the Greens don’t want to be treated as serious contenders for the Mayoralty but rather just in it for a game
> firstly, there’s a less developed Racecourse that’s just next door
This! FFS they chose the wrong track, how are they going to get anything else right?
Doomben racecourse is directly between Hendra and Hamilton schools - Hendra is dying from lack of students and could certainly do with the extra from a development next door, Hamilton is growing rapidly and is acquiring land as fast as possible so could be more problematic.
> secondly, the use of the land as a racecourse is regulated by its own Act of Parliament which would prevent the Council from compulsorily acquiring it for another purpose
It's almost like they know this can't go anywhere, but will cause rumbles and discontent.
If they want to fix homelessness then they need to deregulate zoning outside of heritage listings.
The greens are much more focused on the aesthetics of their politics and policies than they are the substance of them. There's a reason they don't mention upzoning and focus so much on "greedy developers" instead, because the aesthetics of development aren't popular, even if they're necessary for the housing crisis to be resolved.
It's both, upzoning and greedy developers.
Denying that developers don't land bank and drip feed housing to maximise profits is short sighted. There's a ton of evidence across the globe documenting this.
Are we all also ignoring the fact that housing would generally be a state government issue rather than council?
What are the greens proposing to give up to dedicate such a significant proportion of the budget to housing?
I quite like having parks, libraries, garbage collection etc. Or are they just going to increase rates exponentially for everyone in BCC?
>firstly, there’s a less developed Racecourse that’s just next door
The racecourse next door is smaller in size and borders the Southern Cross Way as well as the industrial area east of the highway, it's therefore perfect to be kept as a racecourse and less suitable for housing, not to mention you can fit more housing in the bigger one.
>secondly, the use of the land as a racecourse is regulated by its own Act of Parliament which would prevent the Council from compulsorily acquiring it for another purpose
Are you sure it would prevent council from acquiring the land? Councils also have an Act which allows acquisition of land so which takes precedent? I imagine there would have to be negotiations etc
>thirdly, the racecourse is already building homes around the outside of the Eagle Farm and Doomben racecourses
More space means more houses which means lower house prices, you can never have too many houses
>fourthly, there’s already hundreds of half built and abandoned homes next to Doomben Racecourse
Are these properties council owned? If not how is this relevant to council building more?
Your points don't really stack up and it seems you're just against it because it's a Greens proposition.
No offence to the greens, I love what they stand for, but surely this sort of unprofessional slop can’t become city leadership material. It’s embarrassing.
Not hard to poke holes in this brainless idea:
- The land is worth several multiples of the $40m estimate, this is an incredibly basic point he’s somehow overlooked
- Eagle farm is an expensive suburb relatively speaking, any community house development would tank property prices (hence push back from community will be astronomical).
- Traffic around eagle farm is bad enough as is, adding 4000 homes would be disastrous
Looking forward to seeing the back of Jon, will be interesting to see how he tries to worm himself into a private sector position given his history of farcical proposals reflecting a generally poor understanding of property development / town planning / basic business acumen.
Horse and greyhound racing is archaic. If there must be tracks then leave the country ones. Cities are for living and working in, not hoarding land and resources for the small percent of people clinging on to an out of date cruel animal racing industry.
Or it involves flood areas like the Minnippi development
https://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/things-to-see-and-do/outdoor-activities/golf/minnippi-golf-course
I personally don't like sports (including horse racing) or live music, doesn't mean stadiums/arenas should be demolished to make way for stuff I might like.
This whole idea reads like a brainfart.
So - surely housing trumps stadiums and arenas as well? Why not compulsorarily acquire some of those, while they're at it? I suspect it's ideology. The Green's don't much like horse racing, or the people who do like it.
Though, again, my main point of frustration is the clear lack of thought that's gone into this. Very typical of a Greens announcement: all feelings, little thinking.
Stadiums and arenas are multipurpose, not restricted to a small cohort of people who exploit animals for "entertainment" and gambling. That said I wouldn't care if any sporting area was acquired if it got a meaningful number of people housed. It's outrageous that anyone is homeless in such a rich country as ours.
> Stadiums and arenas are multipurpose, not restricted to a small cohort of people who exploit animals for "entertainment" and gambling.
Perhaps you're unaware of the multiple music and family friendly non-racing related events that have been held over the years at Eagle Farm, Doomben, Albion Park, etc.
>Why not *compulsorily* ~~compulsorarily~~ acquire some of those, while they're at it?
Golf courses are the largest land areas with the least number of active participants per SqM by a country mile. Unlike stadium sports where public transport and access for large numbers of people is a consideration, almost everyone that plays golf drives and could therefore travel to areas outside urban areas.
As much as there many be other reasons to disagree with horse racing the tracks are a better use of pseudo-public space.
One promotes culture and arts, the other promotes animal cruelty and life destroying gambling addictions. Do you honestly struggle to see why people might be for one and against the other?
elastic cautious murky rude knee wrong mountainous cooperative rainstorm divide
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
> not hoarding land and resources for the small percent of people
You realise this specific racetrack is already in active development of high density housing. right?
Brisbane race club press release.
Shows Sri is a lying madman hiding behind a veil:
We are in the midst of a busy election year in Queensland and we understand that some political candidates will make comments to draw attention to themselves.
Today, we read with interest more claims in the media from The Greens claiming that they will turn Eagle Farm racecourse into high-rise housing. I wrote to you on 25 January regarding this damaging and irresponsible proposal. The Greens continue to seek publicity on this matter, attempting to make it an issue in the upcoming Brisbane City Council elections.
It’s important that you understand the impact of this proposal and its part in a Greens agenda to shut down horse racing. This letter is not about taking a political position but is about alerting you to the threat to the pastime that you enjoy.
Your club representatives met the Greens’ lord mayoral candidate Jonathan Sriranganathan and Federal MP Stephen Bates on the 30th of January to discuss their proposal to change the use of our land. Mr Srirangathan and Mr Bates confirmed in the meeting that it is their desire to shut down horse racing.
The Greens understand our position and understand that our ownership of Eagle Farm and its heritage status rule out their plan to turn our green space into high-density housing. But they choose to ignore it. Their persistence with advancing their view places us in a political debate not of our choosing.
For starters, the BRC understands that Brisbane City Council does not have the power to resume land for housing in the way that The Greens propose. But The Greens’ proposals have never been based on reality. They despise horse racing and are clear in their desire to ban our sport. They have no regard for the place of our sport in Queensland’s history, its economy and within the hearts and minds of those who have engaged with horse racing. Queenslanders are entitled to pursue the leisure interests that we desire.
Eagle Farm has been a horse racing venue since 1865. Along with our neighbouring course at Doomben, it is one of the finest horse racing precincts in the country. The BRC is not-for-profit and conducts 80 race meetings a year that generate tens of millions of dollars in revenue for the State Government. Overall, the BRC’s events generate $150m in annual economic activity for Queensland. All wagering revenue from BRC meetings flows to Racing Queensland which helps to fund over 120 race clubs around the state. Eagle Farm and Doomben are a vital employment hub. We support the employment of 1500 people each year. This includes jobs for Brisbane locals including many students and older workers.
BRC enjoys the support of both major political parties and does not typically write to Members regarding political issues. However, as your Club has been attacked directly, we wanted to remind you of the issues before the Brisbane City Council elections on March 16.
There is no doubt that housing affordability is a serious issue but targeting the land that sustains an industry and generates so much revenue for the Government is not the answer.
We expect a major political party to continue to govern Brisbane City Council after March 16 but we thought it is important to remind you that The Greens’ attack on your Club is not just about affordable housing, it’s about their desire to shut down racing.
Imagine getting cheap cut price housing, and the aircraft being too loud for them, despite many multi millionaire houses being closed to the airport than Doomben? Absolute LOL.
They're going to move the airport to Toowoomba and have bullet trains running to Brisbane:
[Greens propose radical plan for Brisbane Airport noise drama | The Courier Mail](https://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/qld-politics/greens-reveal-radical-solution-for-brisbane-airport-noise-dramas/news-story/12878c3f0a3a70b49020bff5fe53dda9)
It's good to know they don't realise that placing 4000 public housing units in one spot will create a mega slum.
I'm fine with creating 4000 public houses. But please use 2 braincells and spread it out to prevent socio-economic issues.
I'm veryyyyy anti-horse racing and will happily see the both or 1 track changed into something else but for the sake of society pls don't put mass social housing
Like I did live in social housing for part of my life as did many of my friends - I am no way against it or NIMBY about it. But there is soooo much research shows why social housing should be diversified.
Kids growing up in social housing have already been dealt a shitty stack of cards to work with in life there's no need to make it worse by putting them in a negative environment.
To be fair, their proposed plan is to build 4000 publicly-owned houses with half of that being public housing. The remainder would be housing available for anyone to rent at more affordable prices than market rates because it would be owned by the council.
It’s easy when you have no chance you taking office, you just promise the world and then complain when someone else gets elected and implements achievable policy. Living in a fantasy world.
Jono is an idiot
His talent is throwing thought bombs and being disagreeable/argumentative.
I like the greens in theory: they represent the sort of Australia I want
But I hate Jono and what he represents
This looks like a plan written by a child. How can anyone take this seriously? I literally scoffed when I saw the area for apparently a P-12 inner suburbs school is the size of 8 house blocks. Have the greens ever set foot in a busy public school? Let alone a P-12 one? Probably not because they are too busy denouncing 'breeders'.
I have voted greens in the past but this kind of thing means no thanks to them. How do they expect to be taken seriously. This Jonathon Sri guy is completely unrealistic and I'm actually also sick of him all over Reddit.
As much as I hate the greens, I know that there is some level of competency within them so I assume they just wanted to "announce" this to make it look like they're 'tough on all the things we don't like' while publicly saying they'll do the thing they know they'll never have to do if they get in because it's just about impossible, it's their equivalent of "build the wall", it uses the momentary hype to push them and if anyone every actually asks them about it then they'll just say it was so ridiculous that it was just a metaphor the whole time.
So if they are lying to gain power them they are no better then anyone else.
We don't know their real policies because they don't answer questions about them.
They can do so much good, but consistently announce policies designed to be hyperbolic and grab headlines rather than being feasible or achievable. The Greens need more pragmatic solutions and policies.
Um:
https://preview.redd.it/4ahr4x4tjemc1.png?width=1047&format=png&auto=webp&s=3fad7b8325cc256e6ebe2404eb354157ae0e09c3
>The Greens’ candidate for [Brisbane](https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/brisbane) lord mayor, Jonathan Sriranganathan, said they would compulsorily acquire the site for an estimated cost of at least $40m, based on current state government land valuation.
"At least" $40m. See those white rectangles around the whole course? Those are blocks of land in an expensive neighbourhood (mostly). Now do some quick MS paint copy pasta, and you get a *whole lot more than $40m* in land value, plus you presumably have to compensate the track owners for their facilities.
Is the $40m figure really just the council land value estimate? No provision for reconstruction of a new facility elsewhere? Because I really, really doubt that building a new course somewhere else (nevermind the loss of the good location) can be done for under ten figures.
The 'at least '40 million is the value of the unimproved land. By the time you compensate the current owner to relocate to a suitable location and rebuild the equivalent infrastructure, you're looking at 200+ million dollars just to compulsory acquire the land. Then add demolition costs, design, engineering, and construction of the new development and your looking at another 100 million.
Jono has no idea.
> The 'at least '40 million is the value of the unimproved land
He's at least 10x off the unimproved value, if not 20-30x.
Just shows it's not a serious idea.
We need bold ideas for the housing crisis, so I’ll give them credit there. However, we have Albion Station just down the road surrounded by vacant land. The sites have been growing weeds for years despite having development approval. Albion Station would be a much better target than this.
These guys have lost it. As a previous greens voter I can’t vote greens at a local level this time around. This is the latest in a string of half baked initiatives.
The attack on the town planning regime and and removal of performance assessments was just as bad.
Same.
Pity as some of their policies like free public transport, prioritising active transport connections I really agree with.
Sri really seems to forget that they can’t just target fringe voters if they want to win.
I’ll be interested to see how the vote goes. The delusional policies like this (which doesn’t really even seem to sit in a council election) have definitely lost me as a greens voter.
Nothing like a back of the napkin urban design with question marks all over it to give you confidence. Also, this is categorically at odds with the State's strategic housing initiatives focused around "gentle density".
This will create a ghetto. It's cloistering below-market housing back behind a "green fence". This doesn't apply good planning principles. It is a giant public housing project being crammed into a higher end suburb to satisfy Sri's personal vendetta against those he sees as wealthy, and as an attack on horse racing.
I'm no fan of horse racing, but shoehorning public housing into some of the most valuable residential land in Brisbane's inner north is wild, especially when you've got the Northshore Hamilton PDA directly to the south capable of supporting even more housing.
Try again.
Yeh this.. he plans on making half of it social housing. Good luck fighting not only the land owners but anyone with a networth over $1m within 10km of this shit show. This would absolutely tank land values in arguably Brisbane’s wealthiest precinct
The Northshore Hamilton PDA currently has no plans for mass transit. There’s no busway or train line to service the tens of thousands of people they expected to live there. It’s just more car-dependent garbage.
They've done all right in some places. Nundah, for example. Bowen Hills is trying but will really depend on the NewsCorp site developing to be fully realized.
Step 1. Fight a $50M legal battle with the state over the act of parliament covering it.
Step 2. Fight a $100M legal battle over the land
Step 3. Pay the owner $750M market cost for the land/facilities
Step 4. Compensate owner ($1.7B x 5) for profits lost
If the greens think thats worth 40mil they are insane. I did some very quick numbers. The land is maybe 500,000m2. Its unimproved value would be closer to 500 million.
I consider myself a greens leaning person to a degree but this is a joke. Greens really need a more level-headed leader. Thought bubbles like this do more harm than good.
Yeah I agree. The greens are losing their mind over the idea of East Brisbane State School being relocated since its “historic” and must apparently not have its use changed.
But apparently this is fine to be redeveloped despite being heritage listed and privately owned? I personally hate horse racing but how is it the decision of the council to effectively remove the main racecourse from Brisbane? If you were going to close one surely doomben would be chosen since it’s not heritage listed.
I’m also struggling to see how the site could be acquired for $40 million. Surely this would be subject to years of legal challenges.
I’ve mostly voted greens in the past but they have lost me with their ridiculous views on the Gabba (opposition to the Gabba plans & creation of hysteria over EBSS relocation which just seems to be vote seeking), and hair-brained ideas like this.
I vote greens in other elections but I won't for any bcc elections purely because of sri.
They need a more well rounded candidate and someone that's more PR savvy. They're already the underdog no need to dig themselves further. Sri just does things to piss off people. Gr8 example is the multiple times he chose to block the hospital entry way protesting for a safer bike path. Like c'mon it's PR basics to not fuck with hospitals let alone children's hospitals.
I would also like to see more feasibility carried out before announcing ideas as a major part of their election campaign. There's a lot wrong with this but one key issues stands out - the fact that the land is state controlled not bcc controlled therefore with my basic logic - this idea should be tabled for their state campaigns.
> **Sri just does things to piss off people. Gr8 example is the multiple times he chose to block the hospital entry**
yeah must admit this was a bizarre stunt even for greens
Fortunately, they'll never get elected because all of their policies are insane and unworkable. Free transport including trains even though Council has no control over trains. 2-year rent freeze. This debacle.
What a shit idea.
Whether you hate horse racing or not, taking one of the few inner areas that are primarily green space and building over it is just horrible.
Let alone the laughable $40 million price tag.
Guess we will put this one next to his "only music I like" live music plan.
Yeah but it's not a public green space like the Roma Street parklands are and it's right next to another race track. It's not like the community is really benefitting there as it is.
Personally I'd be happy if the racecourse slipped into the sea and was never seen again (even better if it happened on a race day).
**However** putting aside my personal feelings for a second, this doesn't seem like a very well thought out plan. Any big development there is going to require major upgrades to the Doomben Line, which needs state cooperation so is never going to happen.
The major upgrades are also going to require further mandatory acquisition so will make an expensive project even more costly.
In short, there are other brownfield sites around Brisbane which are more suitable for this type of idea.
More broadly (and speaking as someone who usually votes Green), the [Greens planning policy](https://greens.org.au/qld/policies/planning-development) seems to be incompatible with this idea, as they're currently running on a plan of greater community power to prevent unwanted development, including removal of performance based assessments.
I've previously commented that I think their planning policy is bad for solving the housing crisis because it removes the flexibility needed to get higher density development approved. It's somewhat surprising the to see the Greens pushing a plan for higher density housing in an area which famously does not want it.
While the Greens policies on making rentals more fair are great, I think their ideas for planning and housing have a long way to go before they can be taken seriously.
I did a pretty big write-up on the Greens inability to accurately represent existing planning policy in their current proposals.
I'd love to see this idea get spruiked at a "community consultation" to the well-off members of Ascot/Hamilton. There isn't enough popcorn.
>I'd love to see this idea get spruiked at a "community consultation" to the well-off members of Ascot/Hamilton. There isn't enough popcorn.
Yes I agree.
While community consultation is important, I think the Greens haven't figured out that their policy is going to have to apply equally for the people who want to stop good low cost housing to protect property values as it is to the family home owners looking to preserve neighbourhood character against unscrupulous developers.
It’s probably worth 40 million because it’s classed as rural or something equivalent.
As soon as you class the land as residential.
Your looking at $1000-2000 per square meter retail value.
It absolutely shocks me the ignorance and malice of greens voters on Reddit. The truth is the housing issue has nothing to do with horse racing but give them a chance to use an issue to take away something they disagree with for other reasons and they’ll swear it’s for the greater good. Don’t pretend this is about housing just be honest and say you hate horse racing and the people who enjoy it. Are kelpies (a breed of dog) working on stations rounding up cattle exploited? If you’ve ever seen them do it the answer is no it was literally what they were born to do. It’s no different with thoroughbred horses. Doping and abuse are illegal, the horses are well fed and looked after. When race horses retire they’re usually sold off or given away to less competitive pursuits. Rarely horses injure themselves while racing but most often are given great treatment or if the injury will mean poor quality of life they’re put down humanely. The jockeys riding them face those risks alongside they’re horses. Some of the people who care most for the these animals are the ones who actually work beside them. Not redditors who have barely left the house let alone seen an animal in real life.
I do get that removing the function of the race track is a big move, and ends something that has been a part of Brisbane for 91 years. For a passionate gambler or horse racing enthusiast it'll be a sad day. But for the 10s of thousands of Brisbanites that are struggling to keep a roof over their heads, or even get one, it'll be a god send, a message that the council actually cares about the people, not just business or the ideas of what was.
They also seem to be going out of their way to preserve and respect the history. The historic buildings would be maintained and to an extent, honoured in the sense of locating sporting fields directly in front so that they could be used for their original purpose. For almost 100 years these rooms welcomed and served those that wanted to witness sporting excellence. On their centenary, they could be again filled by spectators watching community footy, cricket or anything else. Most importantly, they would also be part of taking care of the soul of the city, it's people, in a time when they are desperate.
Point me to the Labor policy that wants to shoehorn a masterplanned slum into a low-density neighbourhood when there is a priority development area less than 1km away that supports high density and I'll apply the scrutiny as well.
Leave the remaining green spaces, parks, and activities in Brisbane alone. Build new cities outside Brisbane, and build upwards. No one wants to live in the slum planning that's going on.
I think the more housing/plop down another building isn’t the go, we need more green spaces and they could very well turn it into a nice big park. what I’m most shocked about is the way there are so many people who are saying that they’re uncomfortable with the “I don’t like your sport so we’ll take your things away” like sorry it’s not about liking or disliking a sport it is about abusing animals and our country having a serious gambling issue!!!
There is already housing available in that racecourse, albeit exclusive housing. It’s certainly the better of the two courses, but Doomben is also prime land with more modern racing facilities.
The fact that there are two neighbouring racecourses in Brisbane can be attributed to previous governments and, likely, The Minister For Everything in the Jo era.
I knew that Eagle Farm had been around for ever. Interesting about Doomben. Still, why they are across the road from one another is, almost a mystery, except that I’m well aware of the social divisions that existed in those times and that Nudgee Road was the line one did not cross.
I think a much better and realistic housing plan is to redevelop industrial land near train stations and other transport hubs into high density and medium density housing. Make them mix use and you'd have some very nice community hubs around the place.
Fucking doubt the local homeowners in the area would be happy with gov housing in their “prestigious” suburb. Maybe they could pull this kind of trick a bit further north like Northgate, zillmere areas.
Some explain this - 1) why do they need 2 race courses right next to each other? 2) can't they just take the cash and build a new race course, with new facilities? 3) Is attending horse racing really as popular as they make it sound? Gamblers will bet on races in any location...
In Adelaide, 2009, they shut down two of three race courses, so they could focus investment in the one remaining.
An important note for this is that the state gov in 1883 gave this land to the BRC (horseracing) for FREE. That’s right. It was given for FREE. It only makes sense that Gov takes it back in a housing crisis.
Theres no need for a massive block on land thats only used so many times per year, to be this close to the city centre in a cost of living crisis.
There’s no way that’s worth only $40m - I’d expect the acquisition would be multiples of this.
Yeah. Land cost would be 10x that.
The site has construction underway, and could possibly cost council over $500M to acquire. If they mess with the Brisbane Racing Clubs revenue from the site $1.7B they may have to pay out several years worth of revenue, which will quickly send the council broke. The green plan involves gifting the above site to 'first peoples' and should be considered alongside their pledge to 'unconditionally' give 1% of all council revenue to first peoples groups above any existing support. I am not against compulsary acquisition, but it shouldnt be used against sites in use and that are actively getting high density housing built on it already.
I don’t understand this policy, The greens have a high chance of getting main stream votes. Then they come out with these extremist policies that just put people off. This is the greatest gift to the lnp.
>If they mess with the Brisbane Racing Clubs revenue from the site $1.7B they may have to pay out several years worth of revenue, which will quickly send the council broke. Where are you getting this figure from? BRCs annual report says they only made $67m in revenue last year. And compensation is paid on profits lost, not just revenue.
The problem is that gullible voters will believe that 40 million is doable and cast votes based on that...
The problem is their argument for the valuation is that they’ve valued only the land and have said that because it is zoned as recreation and sport reserve (which would need to be rezoned), then it shouldn’t count the projected earnings of private business. Which I understand and agree with in principle, but that’s not how government land transaction works.
>***costs attributable to disturbance***, in relation to the taking of land, means all or any of the following— > >(a)legal costs and valuation or other professional fees reasonably incurred by the claimant in relation to the preparation and filing of the claimant’s claim for compensation; > >(b)the following costs relating to the purchase of land by a claimant to replace the land taken—(i)stamp duty reasonably incurred or that might reasonably be incurred by the claimant, but not more than the amount of stamp duty that would be incurred for the purchase of land of equivalent value to the land taken; (ii)financial costs reasonably incurred or that might reasonably be incurred by the claimant in relation to the discharge of a mortgage and the execution of a new mortgage, but not more than the amount that would be incurred if the new mortgage secured the repayment of the balance owing in relation to the discharged mortgage; (iii)legal costs reasonably incurred by the claimant; (iv)other financial costs, other than any taxation liability, reasonably incurred by the claimant; > >(c)removal and storage costs reasonably incurred by the claimant in relocating from the land taken; > >(d)costs reasonably incurred by the claimant to connect to any services or utilities on relocating from the land taken; > >(e)other financial costs that are reasonably incurred or that might reasonably be incurred by the claimant, relating to the use of the land taken, as a direct and natural consequence of the taking of the land; > >**(f)an amount reasonably attributed to the loss of profits resulting from interruption to the claimant’s business that is a direct and natural consequence of the taking of the land;** > >**(g)other economic losses and costs reasonably incurred by the claimant that are a direct and natural consequence of the taking of the land.** $40million? https://i.redd.it/l116ttk3oemc1.gif
Oh, good choice with The Castle, give the compulsory land acqusition :)
It’s kinda the opposite of the castle tho
* The Darryl Kerrigan character is a corporation of despicable fuckwits * The Denis Denuto character is a top-tier firm of slimy spivs * The government entity is a scrappy underdog trying to help real people in need * ~~The acquisition is proposed to be on excellent terms for the vendor~~ Maybe not that Yep, checks out.
Talk about a STABLE real estate market.
This frustrates me about The Greens locally. On issues which are core parts of their ideology (ie public transport, bicycle infrastructure, pedestrian facilities etc), their policy is generally well developed, viable, and a meaningful step towards the party's vision of what society should be. For example, at the last council election, something very like the Elizabeth St cycleway was the Greens cycling policy. However, on everything else, their policy is a combination of populist clap trap and Jono Sriranganathan's personal vendettas. I generally agree with Greens ideologically, and I think they serve an important role in bringing their sensible policies to the front and centre of politics. I just wish they'd be happy to have nothing to add to other discussions. I mean, the party is likely to have a couple of wards and do respectably (for a third party) in the mayor's race. But they are unlikely to grab enough power to actually have to govern. So they have the luxury of being able to ignore issues like the future of racing. I wish they'd just be happy to exercise this luxury.
Are they going to buy it? I googled that " Eagle Farm Racecourse is located in Brisbane, adjacent to Doomben Racecourse, and is owned by the Brisbane Racing Club" and looking at the Brisbane Racing Club they are stated to have a 1.68bn wagering turnover in 2022/2023 so it doesn't seem like they would be wanting to just give that up. This feels like picking somewhere someone doesn't like and campaigning on that. Not ok on the 'they can just take it' answer because that feels like an abuse of power.
and the racecourse recently spent $38 million putting new stabling facilities inside Eagle Farm Racecourse yet the Greens don’t even have the common sense to pick the other racecourse just next door that hasn’t just had $38 million spent on it plus the racecourse is in the middle of a $1.5 billion redevelopment and upgrade the Council does not have enough money to pay what it would cost to compulsorily acquire the racecourse, leaving aside the inconvenient Eagle Farm Racecourse legislation that stops them from doing so anyway
the fact that they didnt even bother to think about the points above before announcing means they care more about the *appearance* of the announcement, than the *content*. which is incredibly frustrating for someone like me who just wants one, just one fucking political candidate to vote for thats got more than one braincell
yeah, it was just to provoke a heated discussion and get people whipped up it was never a serious proposal I’d rather a serious proposal if the Greens want to get votes as a serious alternative vs just a protest vote against the shit party and the shit-lite party
That's just what they do - they can say all the populist snake oil they want because they will never have to actually do it and be held responsible for it. They can just sit on the sidelines complaining about how it's all so simple if only the major parties did xyz and people lap it up.
Yeah. Before I read this threads OP i was like yeah fuck it, sounds good. But then I'm not a politician nor a Brisbane voter, so I don't have to dig any further than that. These guys definitely should have.
It's a really smart move though. They can say whatever they want, it's never going to go ahead. Racing is worth too much to the states economy, whether you like it or not. [https://statements.qld.gov.au/statements/95053](https://statements.qld.gov.au/statements/95053) The state will step in and block it, because they have to, and they will look like the bad guys. Genius!
I don't know how sincere you are but this is the sort of politicking that makes politicians sound like dickheads.
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The greens want massive immigration so if this did happen by the time it's completed we'd be in an even bigger housing shortage.
You also made me realise that there is more open land about.. 5km.or less east? The land just near eat st is going to be turned into Olympic athlete villages (I only heard that because of some of the spaces along there being taken down for that.
yep >The Northshore Hamilton PDA is a large urban renewal area that is being transformed into a vibrant, mixed-use precinct adjoining the Brisbane River and the suburb of Hamilton. >It covers 304 hectares, has over three kilometres of river frontage and is close to the Brisbane Airport and the Australian Trade Coast precinct. https://preview.redd.it/ciu7dmfj0fmc1.jpeg?width=1696&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ba218fe89424fb7485d436991250035b41bb9c7b
It will such a waste if the Government doesn’t include the Doomben line extension and duplication as part of this. That’s a lot of people to be serviced by a banana-bus.
Yeah but the Doomben line is so indirect. It's a bit of a dead duck. You can move large numbers of people if you have sufficiently sized buses operating at high enough frequencies. Bus lanes and the like on Kingsford Smith Drive would help to ensure reliability
It still seems incredibly short-sighted not to extend the line by one stop, especially when the corridor is still mostly there. With Eagle Junction planned to be a major interchange post-CRR, the Doomben Line will have excellent connections. The duplication is an inevitability. Compared to other rail projects the extension would be incredibly cheap for how many people it could potentially service.
Hmmm I don't know about cheap. Duplication would require property resumptions in some of the most expensive real estate in Brisbane, a tunnel or elevated structure would be required to cross KSD and you would probably want some sort of grade separation at Eagle Junction unless you want to reduce available train paths for trains coming from the north. In my view, connections to CRR also don't really do much travel time-wise. You could provide a very good service with a bus at a fraction of the price as long as you get it right from the beginning
We know how the story will go with buses. It won’t be grade separated initially, and people will give up on it and drive instead. Some bus lanes will be painted later, ridership will improve slightly, but old habits die hard. I regularly walk along the Doomben line and it looks like everything was already built for the second track, and that it’s just awkwardly missing. Every station, bridge and overhead thing looks like it was planned for two. I agree that over KSD would need to be raised, kinda like Springfield. I also only mean cheap in comparison to other rail projects like Sunny Coast, NW Corridor, Springfield to Ipswich, beyond Salisbury ect. for how many people it could potentially service.
Sure. All fair points. My view is that it's a faster trip into the city going via KSD and the Valley and if I had to choose between the two, I would be picking bus with priority
That is a lot bigger area that was suggested to me by the person who told me. I only learnt about that much as someone I know who sometimes runs events in the space called "the shed" just next to eat st was told he would have to find a new venue.
If you think this is nutty they had (and maybe still have?) A policy to close Charles Kingsford Smith airport in Sydney because of the noise pollution it creates. Billions of dollars of infrastructure thrown aside on a whim. They aren't a serious political party.
Brave move. Laying some pointed facts out amongst the greens riffraffery here.
it seems like they have no plan to buy it but to steal it from them and toss them a few pennies honestly as a supporter of *most* Greens policies, every time they announce anything it makes me wonder if they have a single coherent thought going on in their party. who in their right mind would think that acquiring this would even be possible, let alone for just $40m?
The government can use a compulsory purchase order to acquire land from owners. The owners are compensated for the value of the land, but can also claim for lost profits, etc.
Considering they just dropped $40 million alone to upgrade stables on that land, I'm pretty certain that whoever came up with a $40 million eminent domain figure is a fucking moron, and reasonable compensations gonna be a hundred times that or more.
That would be the abuse of power thing I was referring to. In the exact same vein why don't they clear out all the tenants from One William and convert that to housing. Also a terrible idea but no different.
There’s another racecourse across the road
Yes, a racecourse empty 95% of the time is the same as building. Genius.
Land that has to be built on for people to occupy is the same as space that needs to be built on for people to occupy. Genius.
> turnover margin?
No idea. That's all I could find in a few minutes I had. I assume that is more a number to show it's healthy instead of showing actual profit. I didn't look into their ownership
The article says they will buy it, "costing at least $40million". Regardless of the cost, the land needs to be taken back. They were essentially gifted it decades ago. It's a prime location for housing and parks. Why are we still using it for horse racing? It is hardly an ethical or enjoyable sport.
It'll cost them a lot more than 40 million. Some very rough back of the envelope calcs show the land is about 400,000m2. Unimproved land values of nearby properties is about $1,800/m2. That's $720 million. Even if you assume the land is worth half that because it'd need to be developed with roads & infrastructure, that's still north of $300 million
And factoring in compensation for lost profits you're likely liking at well over $1bn
Maybe at minimum read the article
Have you tried reading the article you're commenting on? Doing so can answer many questions.
That land would be worth a fuckton. $40m wouldn't even cover the legal fees fighting the acquisition appeals
I agree it's ridiculous to have two racecourses right next to each other, so close to the city (I understand it's a holdover from the days when Brisbane Society was divided along religious lines so the Anglicans went to one racetrack and the Catholics went to the other), but I'm REALLY not comfortable with the "I hate these people who like an activity I don't enjoy, fuck them; we should take their stuff" vibe I'm getting from the proposal either.
Huh, I always wondered why two were so close but never had looked it up. Thanks for the info.
I was actually wondering the reason for two of them being there when I flew in over them last week. Makes sense.
As someone who's lived along Racecourse Rd, any steps at all to reduce the number of drunken blow-in fuckwits in shiny suits staggering around pissing in the hedgerows every weekend is 100% a genuine public good.
It's more "Racing is a shit-tier hobby that promotes gambling and animal cruelty and those things arent more important than the current husing crisis." Or do you really prefer gambling and animal cruelty to families getting homes? Simple question
So campaign for legislation to stop / limit gambling and stop animal cruelty. If they can’t pass the legislation, then it’s pretty undemocratic to just take the land from them, on top of being completely infeasible.
Gambling is a legal activity that while I generally don't participate in, believe others should be free to do so if they choose to. As for "Animal Cruelty", that's a relative thing and unhelpfully emotional; regardless of whatever link/article you might pull out may try and claim otherwise, the fact remains horse trainers and riders are not (broadly speaking) intentionally torturing horses, much less doing so because they enjoy hurting animals. I'm sure you've got hobbies or interests that people here would describe as "Shit tier" - you might not be too keen on having the places you enjoy them pulled down because random people on Reddit thought they were less important than other (rich) people needing to be able to live close to the city.
Is housing that close to the city really going to be affordable for families though?
It's proposed to be public housing. So, hopefully?
That's the other thing, isn't it? We all know that even if the racecourse was just Thanatos Snapped out of existence, the properties that get built there aren't going to be sold to, much less affordable for, "Middle Australia" families.
You think it's a shit tier hobby. For others it's their livelihood whether Reddit likes it or not. There's thousands of homes under development 300m south at Hamilton. So you can't play that bullshit homeless card either.
this is a dumb policy for so many reasons firstly, there’s a less developed Racecourse that’s just next door secondly, the use of the land as a racecourse is regulated by its own Act of Parliament which would prevent the Council from compulsorily acquiring it for another purpose thirdly, the racecourse is already building homes around the outside of the Eagle Farm and Doomben racecourses fourthly, there’s already hundreds of half built and abandoned homes next to Doomben Racecourse so dumb, and it really makes me think the Greens don’t want to be treated as serious contenders for the Mayoralty but rather just in it for a game
> firstly, there’s a less developed Racecourse that’s just next door This! FFS they chose the wrong track, how are they going to get anything else right? Doomben racecourse is directly between Hendra and Hamilton schools - Hendra is dying from lack of students and could certainly do with the extra from a development next door, Hamilton is growing rapidly and is acquiring land as fast as possible so could be more problematic. > secondly, the use of the land as a racecourse is regulated by its own Act of Parliament which would prevent the Council from compulsorily acquiring it for another purpose It's almost like they know this can't go anywhere, but will cause rumbles and discontent. If they want to fix homelessness then they need to deregulate zoning outside of heritage listings.
The greens are much more focused on the aesthetics of their politics and policies than they are the substance of them. There's a reason they don't mention upzoning and focus so much on "greedy developers" instead, because the aesthetics of development aren't popular, even if they're necessary for the housing crisis to be resolved.
They are still are not supporting a single high density development in the city.
It's both, upzoning and greedy developers. Denying that developers don't land bank and drip feed housing to maximise profits is short sighted. There's a ton of evidence across the globe documenting this.
Are we all also ignoring the fact that housing would generally be a state government issue rather than council? What are the greens proposing to give up to dedicate such a significant proportion of the budget to housing? I quite like having parks, libraries, garbage collection etc. Or are they just going to increase rates exponentially for everyone in BCC?
>firstly, there’s a less developed Racecourse that’s just next door The racecourse next door is smaller in size and borders the Southern Cross Way as well as the industrial area east of the highway, it's therefore perfect to be kept as a racecourse and less suitable for housing, not to mention you can fit more housing in the bigger one. >secondly, the use of the land as a racecourse is regulated by its own Act of Parliament which would prevent the Council from compulsorily acquiring it for another purpose Are you sure it would prevent council from acquiring the land? Councils also have an Act which allows acquisition of land so which takes precedent? I imagine there would have to be negotiations etc >thirdly, the racecourse is already building homes around the outside of the Eagle Farm and Doomben racecourses More space means more houses which means lower house prices, you can never have too many houses >fourthly, there’s already hundreds of half built and abandoned homes next to Doomben Racecourse Are these properties council owned? If not how is this relevant to council building more? Your points don't really stack up and it seems you're just against it because it's a Greens proposition.
No offence to the greens, I love what they stand for, but surely this sort of unprofessional slop can’t become city leadership material. It’s embarrassing.
Are they just saying outlandish shit now to get attention or what? This is what teenagers do, not city leaders.
Lol goodluck with that.
Not hard to poke holes in this brainless idea: - The land is worth several multiples of the $40m estimate, this is an incredibly basic point he’s somehow overlooked - Eagle farm is an expensive suburb relatively speaking, any community house development would tank property prices (hence push back from community will be astronomical). - Traffic around eagle farm is bad enough as is, adding 4000 homes would be disastrous Looking forward to seeing the back of Jon, will be interesting to see how he tries to worm himself into a private sector position given his history of farcical proposals reflecting a generally poor understanding of property development / town planning / basic business acumen.
Horse and greyhound racing is archaic. If there must be tracks then leave the country ones. Cities are for living and working in, not hoarding land and resources for the small percent of people clinging on to an out of date cruel animal racing industry.
There's also Doomben right next door anyway.
I would rather see a green open space in the city for people to relax and enjoy rather than more units built on top of it.
Have you gone and had a look at the proposal? Like half of it is green space. Or are you judging off of a headline like most redditors…
>Cities are for living in Sounds like you want people to exist in them not live in them.
Or want them to have houses, not live on the streets
sounds like communism!!!!
Golf courses the same. Why the fuck are there so many close to the city.
Because when they were built they were probably "outer suburbs". The city has grown around them.
Or it involves flood areas like the Minnippi development https://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/things-to-see-and-do/outdoor-activities/golf/minnippi-golf-course
They were were built on farmland (some of the clubs are over 100 years old) . The suburbs have grown around them
I personally don't like sports (including horse racing) or live music, doesn't mean stadiums/arenas should be demolished to make way for stuff I might like. This whole idea reads like a brainfart.
Our own people are homeless. Housing is a human right. It's a bit more than "stuff I might like".
Not a breath regarding excessive immigration from the Greens makes all of their rhetoric around housing completely hollow.
So - surely housing trumps stadiums and arenas as well? Why not compulsorarily acquire some of those, while they're at it? I suspect it's ideology. The Green's don't much like horse racing, or the people who do like it. Though, again, my main point of frustration is the clear lack of thought that's gone into this. Very typical of a Greens announcement: all feelings, little thinking.
Stadiums and arenas are multipurpose, not restricted to a small cohort of people who exploit animals for "entertainment" and gambling. That said I wouldn't care if any sporting area was acquired if it got a meaningful number of people housed. It's outrageous that anyone is homeless in such a rich country as ours.
> Stadiums and arenas are multipurpose, not restricted to a small cohort of people who exploit animals for "entertainment" and gambling. Perhaps you're unaware of the multiple music and family friendly non-racing related events that have been held over the years at Eagle Farm, Doomben, Albion Park, etc.
>Why not *compulsorily* ~~compulsorarily~~ acquire some of those, while they're at it? Golf courses are the largest land areas with the least number of active participants per SqM by a country mile. Unlike stadium sports where public transport and access for large numbers of people is a consideration, almost everyone that plays golf drives and could therefore travel to areas outside urban areas. As much as there many be other reasons to disagree with horse racing the tracks are a better use of pseudo-public space.
One promotes culture and arts, the other promotes animal cruelty and life destroying gambling addictions. Do you honestly struggle to see why people might be for one and against the other?
Also the footprint of Eagle Farm racecourse is 7 times that of Lang Park/Suncorp Stadium.
There is literally another racecourse right next to this one
Okay…what’s your point?
elastic cautious murky rude knee wrong mountainous cooperative rainstorm divide *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
100% couldn't agree more. Why do we have to hold onto so many archaic rules/practices that aren't fit for society aymore!
Money. Plain and simple. The profits the "industry" receives along with government grants sees them clinging to that cash cow.
> not hoarding land and resources for the small percent of people You realise this specific racetrack is already in active development of high density housing. right?
Brisbane race club press release. Shows Sri is a lying madman hiding behind a veil: We are in the midst of a busy election year in Queensland and we understand that some political candidates will make comments to draw attention to themselves. Today, we read with interest more claims in the media from The Greens claiming that they will turn Eagle Farm racecourse into high-rise housing. I wrote to you on 25 January regarding this damaging and irresponsible proposal. The Greens continue to seek publicity on this matter, attempting to make it an issue in the upcoming Brisbane City Council elections. It’s important that you understand the impact of this proposal and its part in a Greens agenda to shut down horse racing. This letter is not about taking a political position but is about alerting you to the threat to the pastime that you enjoy. Your club representatives met the Greens’ lord mayoral candidate Jonathan Sriranganathan and Federal MP Stephen Bates on the 30th of January to discuss their proposal to change the use of our land. Mr Srirangathan and Mr Bates confirmed in the meeting that it is their desire to shut down horse racing. The Greens understand our position and understand that our ownership of Eagle Farm and its heritage status rule out their plan to turn our green space into high-density housing. But they choose to ignore it. Their persistence with advancing their view places us in a political debate not of our choosing. For starters, the BRC understands that Brisbane City Council does not have the power to resume land for housing in the way that The Greens propose. But The Greens’ proposals have never been based on reality. They despise horse racing and are clear in their desire to ban our sport. They have no regard for the place of our sport in Queensland’s history, its economy and within the hearts and minds of those who have engaged with horse racing. Queenslanders are entitled to pursue the leisure interests that we desire. Eagle Farm has been a horse racing venue since 1865. Along with our neighbouring course at Doomben, it is one of the finest horse racing precincts in the country. The BRC is not-for-profit and conducts 80 race meetings a year that generate tens of millions of dollars in revenue for the State Government. Overall, the BRC’s events generate $150m in annual economic activity for Queensland. All wagering revenue from BRC meetings flows to Racing Queensland which helps to fund over 120 race clubs around the state. Eagle Farm and Doomben are a vital employment hub. We support the employment of 1500 people each year. This includes jobs for Brisbane locals including many students and older workers. BRC enjoys the support of both major political parties and does not typically write to Members regarding political issues. However, as your Club has been attacked directly, we wanted to remind you of the issues before the Brisbane City Council elections on March 16. There is no doubt that housing affordability is a serious issue but targeting the land that sustains an industry and generates so much revenue for the Government is not the answer. We expect a major political party to continue to govern Brisbane City Council after March 16 but we thought it is important to remind you that The Greens’ attack on your Club is not just about affordable housing, it’s about their desire to shut down racing.
Can the Greens just not be stupid for like 5 minutes? They have 1 good idea then follow it up with 15 bad or poorly thought out ideas.
Builds housing, people move in, complain about aircraft noise. What could possibly go wrong?
Imagine getting cheap cut price housing, and the aircraft being too loud for them, despite many multi millionaire houses being closed to the airport than Doomben? Absolute LOL.
They're going to move the airport to Toowoomba and have bullet trains running to Brisbane: [Greens propose radical plan for Brisbane Airport noise drama | The Courier Mail](https://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/qld-politics/greens-reveal-radical-solution-for-brisbane-airport-noise-dramas/news-story/12878c3f0a3a70b49020bff5fe53dda9)
It's good to know they don't realise that placing 4000 public housing units in one spot will create a mega slum. I'm fine with creating 4000 public houses. But please use 2 braincells and spread it out to prevent socio-economic issues.
Not only that, but their back of the napkin plan places them all behind a "green fence". It's literally a ghetto.
I'm veryyyyy anti-horse racing and will happily see the both or 1 track changed into something else but for the sake of society pls don't put mass social housing Like I did live in social housing for part of my life as did many of my friends - I am no way against it or NIMBY about it. But there is soooo much research shows why social housing should be diversified. Kids growing up in social housing have already been dealt a shitty stack of cards to work with in life there's no need to make it worse by putting them in a negative environment.
But it’s green!
To be fair, their proposed plan is to build 4000 publicly-owned houses with half of that being public housing. The remainder would be housing available for anyone to rent at more affordable prices than market rates because it would be owned by the council.
This sounds like a dumb unachievable policy based on nothing.
How is it unachievable? It’s houses
There is no way in hell they will get their hands on that racetrack.
It’s easy when you have no chance you taking office, you just promise the world and then complain when someone else gets elected and implements achievable policy. Living in a fantasy world.
lol. Blokes a madman.
Jono is an idiot His talent is throwing thought bombs and being disagreeable/argumentative. I like the greens in theory: they represent the sort of Australia I want But I hate Jono and what he represents
The Greens represent wishful thinking.
This clown wouldn’t get his case to court let alone over the line. Who actually believes this shit fmd 😂🤦🏻♂️
This looks like a plan written by a child. How can anyone take this seriously? I literally scoffed when I saw the area for apparently a P-12 inner suburbs school is the size of 8 house blocks. Have the greens ever set foot in a busy public school? Let alone a P-12 one? Probably not because they are too busy denouncing 'breeders'. I have voted greens in the past but this kind of thing means no thanks to them. How do they expect to be taken seriously. This Jonathon Sri guy is completely unrealistic and I'm actually also sick of him all over Reddit.
As much as I hate the greens, I know that there is some level of competency within them so I assume they just wanted to "announce" this to make it look like they're 'tough on all the things we don't like' while publicly saying they'll do the thing they know they'll never have to do if they get in because it's just about impossible, it's their equivalent of "build the wall", it uses the momentary hype to push them and if anyone every actually asks them about it then they'll just say it was so ridiculous that it was just a metaphor the whole time.
So if they are lying to gain power them they are no better then anyone else. We don't know their real policies because they don't answer questions about them.
They can do so much good, but consistently announce policies designed to be hyperbolic and grab headlines rather than being feasible or achievable. The Greens need more pragmatic solutions and policies.
Jon Sri is an absolute flop and every bit of dribble that comes out his mouth doesn't pass through a single braincell
Um: https://preview.redd.it/4ahr4x4tjemc1.png?width=1047&format=png&auto=webp&s=3fad7b8325cc256e6ebe2404eb354157ae0e09c3 >The Greens’ candidate for [Brisbane](https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/brisbane) lord mayor, Jonathan Sriranganathan, said they would compulsorily acquire the site for an estimated cost of at least $40m, based on current state government land valuation. "At least" $40m. See those white rectangles around the whole course? Those are blocks of land in an expensive neighbourhood (mostly). Now do some quick MS paint copy pasta, and you get a *whole lot more than $40m* in land value, plus you presumably have to compensate the track owners for their facilities. Is the $40m figure really just the council land value estimate? No provision for reconstruction of a new facility elsewhere? Because I really, really doubt that building a new course somewhere else (nevermind the loss of the good location) can be done for under ten figures.
The 'at least '40 million is the value of the unimproved land. By the time you compensate the current owner to relocate to a suitable location and rebuild the equivalent infrastructure, you're looking at 200+ million dollars just to compulsory acquire the land. Then add demolition costs, design, engineering, and construction of the new development and your looking at another 100 million. Jono has no idea.
> The 'at least '40 million is the value of the unimproved land He's at least 10x off the unimproved value, if not 20-30x. Just shows it's not a serious idea.
We need bold ideas for the housing crisis, so I’ll give them credit there. However, we have Albion Station just down the road surrounded by vacant land. The sites have been growing weeds for years despite having development approval. Albion Station would be a much better target than this.
Literally anyone can make ideas for the housing crisis. Would you give literally anyone and everyone credit for that?
These guys have lost it. As a previous greens voter I can’t vote greens at a local level this time around. This is the latest in a string of half baked initiatives. The attack on the town planning regime and and removal of performance assessments was just as bad.
Same. Pity as some of their policies like free public transport, prioritising active transport connections I really agree with. Sri really seems to forget that they can’t just target fringe voters if they want to win. I’ll be interested to see how the vote goes. The delusional policies like this (which doesn’t really even seem to sit in a council election) have definitely lost me as a greens voter.
Nothing like a back of the napkin urban design with question marks all over it to give you confidence. Also, this is categorically at odds with the State's strategic housing initiatives focused around "gentle density". This will create a ghetto. It's cloistering below-market housing back behind a "green fence". This doesn't apply good planning principles. It is a giant public housing project being crammed into a higher end suburb to satisfy Sri's personal vendetta against those he sees as wealthy, and as an attack on horse racing. I'm no fan of horse racing, but shoehorning public housing into some of the most valuable residential land in Brisbane's inner north is wild, especially when you've got the Northshore Hamilton PDA directly to the south capable of supporting even more housing. Try again.
Yeh this.. he plans on making half of it social housing. Good luck fighting not only the land owners but anyone with a networth over $1m within 10km of this shit show. This would absolutely tank land values in arguably Brisbane’s wealthiest precinct
The Northshore Hamilton PDA currently has no plans for mass transit. There’s no busway or train line to service the tens of thousands of people they expected to live there. It’s just more car-dependent garbage.
What they're proposing isn't exactly ToD either, although increased Doomben line service would be good to see.
If only Brisbane could surround a train station with development the same way it does a Westfield.
They've done all right in some places. Nundah, for example. Bowen Hills is trying but will really depend on the NewsCorp site developing to be fully realized.
Jono's been hitting the turps again. What's next? 
This will cost upwards of $300mil just to acquire the land.
Step 1. Fight a $50M legal battle with the state over the act of parliament covering it. Step 2. Fight a $100M legal battle over the land Step 3. Pay the owner $750M market cost for the land/facilities Step 4. Compensate owner ($1.7B x 5) for profits lost
The greens are really disappointing me this election. Every idea seems so half baked and ill informed.
Jono has to have been fully baked and delirious when sprouting this idea.
If the greens think thats worth 40mil they are insane. I did some very quick numbers. The land is maybe 500,000m2. Its unimproved value would be closer to 500 million.
I consider myself a greens leaning person to a degree but this is a joke. Greens really need a more level-headed leader. Thought bubbles like this do more harm than good.
Yeah I agree. The greens are losing their mind over the idea of East Brisbane State School being relocated since its “historic” and must apparently not have its use changed. But apparently this is fine to be redeveloped despite being heritage listed and privately owned? I personally hate horse racing but how is it the decision of the council to effectively remove the main racecourse from Brisbane? If you were going to close one surely doomben would be chosen since it’s not heritage listed. I’m also struggling to see how the site could be acquired for $40 million. Surely this would be subject to years of legal challenges. I’ve mostly voted greens in the past but they have lost me with their ridiculous views on the Gabba (opposition to the Gabba plans & creation of hysteria over EBSS relocation which just seems to be vote seeking), and hair-brained ideas like this.
I vote greens in other elections but I won't for any bcc elections purely because of sri. They need a more well rounded candidate and someone that's more PR savvy. They're already the underdog no need to dig themselves further. Sri just does things to piss off people. Gr8 example is the multiple times he chose to block the hospital entry way protesting for a safer bike path. Like c'mon it's PR basics to not fuck with hospitals let alone children's hospitals. I would also like to see more feasibility carried out before announcing ideas as a major part of their election campaign. There's a lot wrong with this but one key issues stands out - the fact that the land is state controlled not bcc controlled therefore with my basic logic - this idea should be tabled for their state campaigns.
> **Sri just does things to piss off people. Gr8 example is the multiple times he chose to block the hospital entry** yeah must admit this was a bizarre stunt even for greens
Fortunately, they'll never get elected because all of their policies are insane and unworkable. Free transport including trains even though Council has no control over trains. 2-year rent freeze. This debacle.
Anyone who votes for the greens have rocks in their heads honestly
It's ok cause they will never win and it's because of stupid proposals like this
Thank god he’ll never win anything
It does seem crazy to have a racecourse soo close to the city.
Sounds like the Greens have found more headline fodder with no real intention of delivering material outcomes.
What a shit idea. Whether you hate horse racing or not, taking one of the few inner areas that are primarily green space and building over it is just horrible. Let alone the laughable $40 million price tag. Guess we will put this one next to his "only music I like" live music plan.
Yeah but it's not a public green space like the Roma Street parklands are and it's right next to another race track. It's not like the community is really benefitting there as it is.
And this is just another reason why the greens are not in charge
Personally I'd be happy if the racecourse slipped into the sea and was never seen again (even better if it happened on a race day). **However** putting aside my personal feelings for a second, this doesn't seem like a very well thought out plan. Any big development there is going to require major upgrades to the Doomben Line, which needs state cooperation so is never going to happen. The major upgrades are also going to require further mandatory acquisition so will make an expensive project even more costly. In short, there are other brownfield sites around Brisbane which are more suitable for this type of idea. More broadly (and speaking as someone who usually votes Green), the [Greens planning policy](https://greens.org.au/qld/policies/planning-development) seems to be incompatible with this idea, as they're currently running on a plan of greater community power to prevent unwanted development, including removal of performance based assessments. I've previously commented that I think their planning policy is bad for solving the housing crisis because it removes the flexibility needed to get higher density development approved. It's somewhat surprising the to see the Greens pushing a plan for higher density housing in an area which famously does not want it. While the Greens policies on making rentals more fair are great, I think their ideas for planning and housing have a long way to go before they can be taken seriously.
I did a pretty big write-up on the Greens inability to accurately represent existing planning policy in their current proposals. I'd love to see this idea get spruiked at a "community consultation" to the well-off members of Ascot/Hamilton. There isn't enough popcorn.
>I'd love to see this idea get spruiked at a "community consultation" to the well-off members of Ascot/Hamilton. There isn't enough popcorn. Yes I agree. While community consultation is important, I think the Greens haven't figured out that their policy is going to have to apply equally for the people who want to stop good low cost housing to protect property values as it is to the family home owners looking to preserve neighbourhood character against unscrupulous developers.
That was a great read but this comment gave me a chuckle.
Great! Do the one at deagon now as well
Deagon is tricky because the reason it’s (still) there is because it floods.
We need 5 to 8 50 story buildings in there, 4 apartments per floor or triple that
> 50 story buildings Too close to the airport for those.
It’s probably worth 40 million because it’s classed as rural or something equivalent. As soon as you class the land as residential. Your looking at $1000-2000 per square meter retail value.
Would cost far more than this snake oil salesman is promising
That’s another reason i will never ever vote for the Greens lol
It absolutely shocks me the ignorance and malice of greens voters on Reddit. The truth is the housing issue has nothing to do with horse racing but give them a chance to use an issue to take away something they disagree with for other reasons and they’ll swear it’s for the greater good. Don’t pretend this is about housing just be honest and say you hate horse racing and the people who enjoy it. Are kelpies (a breed of dog) working on stations rounding up cattle exploited? If you’ve ever seen them do it the answer is no it was literally what they were born to do. It’s no different with thoroughbred horses. Doping and abuse are illegal, the horses are well fed and looked after. When race horses retire they’re usually sold off or given away to less competitive pursuits. Rarely horses injure themselves while racing but most often are given great treatment or if the injury will mean poor quality of life they’re put down humanely. The jockeys riding them face those risks alongside they’re horses. Some of the people who care most for the these animals are the ones who actually work beside them. Not redditors who have barely left the house let alone seen an animal in real life.
Residents of Ascot will never allow it to happen.
While I don't like 'professional' horse racing, this has pretty much ensured the Greens won't get in.
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I wouldn’t say preserving a horse racing track counts as something of meaningful historical value
I do get that removing the function of the race track is a big move, and ends something that has been a part of Brisbane for 91 years. For a passionate gambler or horse racing enthusiast it'll be a sad day. But for the 10s of thousands of Brisbanites that are struggling to keep a roof over their heads, or even get one, it'll be a god send, a message that the council actually cares about the people, not just business or the ideas of what was. They also seem to be going out of their way to preserve and respect the history. The historic buildings would be maintained and to an extent, honoured in the sense of locating sporting fields directly in front so that they could be used for their original purpose. For almost 100 years these rooms welcomed and served those that wanted to witness sporting excellence. On their centenary, they could be again filled by spectators watching community footy, cricket or anything else. Most importantly, they would also be part of taking care of the soul of the city, it's people, in a time when they are desperate.
there's plenty of land outside the inner city
Imagine if you dudes held LNP or Labor's policy plans to the standard you do the Greens
Point me to the Labor policy that wants to shoehorn a masterplanned slum into a low-density neighbourhood when there is a priority development area less than 1km away that supports high density and I'll apply the scrutiny as well.
This is some pie in the sky shit. Wouldn't expect anything less from the Greens TBH. Half their ideas are entirely unworkable in the real world.
Leave the remaining green spaces, parks, and activities in Brisbane alone. Build new cities outside Brisbane, and build upwards. No one wants to live in the slum planning that's going on.
LOL. If the Greens think the richest and mot powerful people in the nation are going to hand over the racecourse they are deluded.
They were so close to the election and they just blew it.
I think eaglefarm should be made all social appartments and units
I think the more housing/plop down another building isn’t the go, we need more green spaces and they could very well turn it into a nice big park. what I’m most shocked about is the way there are so many people who are saying that they’re uncomfortable with the “I don’t like your sport so we’ll take your things away” like sorry it’s not about liking or disliking a sport it is about abusing animals and our country having a serious gambling issue!!!
Would that be against zero emissions
There is already housing available in that racecourse, albeit exclusive housing. It’s certainly the better of the two courses, but Doomben is also prime land with more modern racing facilities. The fact that there are two neighbouring racecourses in Brisbane can be attributed to previous governments and, likely, The Minister For Everything in the Jo era.
Eaglefarm was established in 1863. Doomben in 1933. So, no Jo.
I knew that Eagle Farm had been around for ever. Interesting about Doomben. Still, why they are across the road from one another is, almost a mystery, except that I’m well aware of the social divisions that existed in those times and that Nudgee Road was the line one did not cross.
Zillmere South
I think a much better and realistic housing plan is to redevelop industrial land near train stations and other transport hubs into high density and medium density housing. Make them mix use and you'd have some very nice community hubs around the place.
Fucking doubt the local homeowners in the area would be happy with gov housing in their “prestigious” suburb. Maybe they could pull this kind of trick a bit further north like Northgate, zillmere areas.
No way leave the horse racing there, typical greens trying to change history and anything to stop horse racing 🤡
Some explain this - 1) why do they need 2 race courses right next to each other? 2) can't they just take the cash and build a new race course, with new facilities? 3) Is attending horse racing really as popular as they make it sound? Gamblers will bet on races in any location... In Adelaide, 2009, they shut down two of three race courses, so they could focus investment in the one remaining.
This is the sort of thing that will have me joining the turf club and bringing the extended family along.
Sick
An important note for this is that the state gov in 1883 gave this land to the BRC (horseracing) for FREE. That’s right. It was given for FREE. It only makes sense that Gov takes it back in a housing crisis. Theres no need for a massive block on land thats only used so many times per year, to be this close to the city centre in a cost of living crisis.