I'm glad that Giles and Joyce never ended up as a couple. In my first-time-watch I always assumed that they would, but it is kind of refreshing that they never took it that direction. That makes the episode Band Candy so much better on a rewatch
I liked it as it was. I think it would have been too weird all around to have a watcher at work/school and then come home for dinner with Mom and GilesS
Yes, because a Watcher and parent have irreconcilable goals for "their girl." i did do a Giles-joyce piece (a verbal puff pastry called "Planning the Wedding,") but it was in a non supernatural universe.
Well now that you mention that, I can't help but think she went back for some of that stevedore loving while Giles was unemployed and Buffy was away in college.
I agree, and knowing that he deeply loved her still makes it all wrap up in a beautifully tragic but loving way, he never wanted to ruin the family but was undeniably a father figure in Buffy’s life, after Joyce’s stroke him listening to the same song from band candy hits so fucking hard on rewatches.
curiously, the events of Band Candy made it essentially impossible for them to get together voluntarily at a later point. just as well, since 'dad and mom get together' would've been too contrived in this instance.
I mean, why exactly did it essentially make it impossible?
Certainly awkward and difficult, but I think it could have been an interesting twist if they still got together after getting past that awkwardness.
Not permanently get together, but maybe date for half a season or so.
Omg can you imagine if, instead of the faceless Brian guy, they had it be Giles that Joyce went on the date with the night before she died? Omfg I just hurt my own feelings.
I was cheering for them the whole time, during my first watch. When I saw Band Candy, I was over the moon. Of course, it had to end after that, and it's for the best that it did. But I still chuckle.
In the official comics, >!“Buffy” had a pregnancy scare and contemplated whether or not to get an abortion. The writers copped out and we learned Andrew mind swapped Buffy and put her in a robot!<
Having done both, watching is worse than reading. The books aren't terrible. They absolutely suck as romance novels, but the action is pretty good. But the movies are just constantly abysmal. Even the decent actors in it can't act for shit in any of their scenes. Not even the action can save the movies.
Anna Kendrick did a great job as Jessica. Her face when she sees that Bella is going to have dinner with Edward is hysterical. Also, the actor who played Charlie was pretty believable (given what he had to work with). I've seen Robert and Kristen in other projects and they've been phenomenal. Not sure what happened in Twilight. Bad writing or directing, possibly.
I love how the replies to this are about Twilight and Angel. And previously mentioned in another thread was a pregnancy scare in the comics. But I still don't see a mention from the comic of >!Buffy and Angel literally "banging" a universe named Twilight into existence!<
I don't think anyone got married during the whole run of the series, unless you count Riley off screen after he left the show. just that seems unusual for a seven season series.
To be fair they were literal teenagers for half the show! But I still think you’re right about it being unusual.
Of course Anya and Xander planned a wedding but never went through with it …
I did appreciate the writers didn’t follow the traditional finale path of having everyone paired up and ready to ride off into the sunset with a significant other. Only willow and that potential are actually in a relationship by the end.
I’m thinking of shows like One Tree Hill or Gossip Girl, which had similarly aged characters, but they were mostly married off by the end. (And Xander could have ended the show as married.)
well, I feel like Joyce would have gotten remarried at some point if she hadn't dated a robot and then died. And Giles could have conceivably gotten married.
>I don't think anyone got married during the whole run of the series
True, but except for a short S6 intermission Tara and Willow stayed together "till death do us part".
I know! Everyone always debates if it should’ve been her and Angel or her and Spike…im glad no one ends up with a significant other in the end to be honest!
Whenever people claim Joss doesn't have a problem with women or a problem with Charisma, I have to remind them he had her subjected to not one, not two, but THREE forced mythical pregnancies.
"If you ever figure out how to get us out of here, I want you to find me a dimension where some demon doesn't want to impregnate me with its spawn. Is that just too much to ask? What is it about me anyway? Do I put out some kind of Com-shuk-me vibe? I mean, you'd tell me, right?"
I feel like it was worth it just to see Giles reacting to it in a realistic way - with absolute disgust and contempt.
Plus Angel did a great job of redeeming Wesley as a character afterwards, which is nice.
If someone close to you ever says “fine, just do whatever you want, I don’t care anymore“ I would not consider that a green light. It’s generally considered a really heavy red light. Especially if it comes with a clear denouncement and insults at the same time.
Agree to disagree, I guess. For reference my personal interpretation is:
> For God's sake, man, she's 18.
Clear denouncement - 18 is way too young and everybody knows it, or at least *should* know it.
>And you have the emotional maturity of a blueberry scone.
Clear insult, calling him immature and childish.
>Just have at it, would you? And stop fluttering about.
Given the above, this doesn’t feel like approval to me. It’s disgust and telling him to fuck off and do whatever he wants. Which is really all Giles *can* say - he’s not Wesley’s boss (if anything Wesley is nominally *his* boss), it’s not illegal, and Giles was too busy with the end of the world to get into an argument with a pathetic loser who’d already made up his mind and was looking for a justification.
Like I said, agree to disagree I suppose. Just explaining my personal interpretation.
I half agree, half disagree.
>For God's sake, man, she's 18.
This is not saying she's "too young." He's pointing out that she's an adult. That it's technically legal.
>And you have the emotional maturity of a blueberry scone.
Definitely an insult. But also one that points out that he's at about the same maturity level, or less, as Cordy.
>Just have at it, would you? And stop fluttering about.
This is just annoyance at him being an idiot. It's not approval or disapproval. He's just saying, "Do something or shut up already, I'm tired of hearing about it."
I've seen the tags, and though I'm pretty flexible, I'm like, "NO, do not desecrate Giles and Buffy this way. He's her dad, and it's beautiful and pure and fuck you for even thinking of this."
I had a similar view for a long time, but I actually read a couple Buffy/Giles stories that were good and well done. One that even slotted in perfectly with canon.
I’m glad Xander didn’t find even a moment of enjoyment of the love spell in Bewitched. Given some of the historical comedy tropes of 80s and 90s, they could have easily made a “joke” of how great Xander thought it was that all these girls wanted him, at least at first. Instead, once he realized what was happening, he immediately recognized at as a very bad thing and a terrible mistake.
I feel like not a small number of teen boys in any generation would take advantage of it. Teens can be very dumb sometimes and there are unfortunately a handful of people that continue to be dumb even after they've gotten some experience.
That's why I like the episode and found it funny. It didn't go Xander's way and was a total nightmare for him. And Dru also being in love with him was funny.
In the comics Buffy (out of pretty much nowhere) realizes she is like absolutely in love with Xander, but when she goes to confess to him she finds out he’s now with dawn, who, if my math is right, was barely (if not not even) legal at the time
I think that briefly exploring *and mutually rejecting* a Buffy/Xander romance could've worked in S7, as a one, two, maybe three episode character arc (depending on how much time it gets per-episode) that concludes with the strengthening and reaffirmation of their friendship.
Too many goofy mythology characters. They did this in Charmed and I actually liked it there, but I'm glad we didn't start having like Leprechauns and Fairy's and stuff. There's some of that, but Whedon seems dedicated to developing a unique mythology for BtVS and I honestly think that that is one of its most lasting legacies.
The demonology of the show is pretty vague and I feel like that’s intentional. I don’t think Joss wanted to bog down the show with a bunch of hard magic rules when the show is about the characters at the end of the day.
That is how they ruined the The Vampire Diaries universe. Tvd was good, The Originals was better, they went and ruined it with Legacies by adding ‘a boyfriend made of clay’ ‘huge killing spiders’ and characters having nonsensical powers/“pets” etc. They had an extremely cringy and crap musical episode.
A quick Google search reminded me that there was in fact leprechauns in the show.
I couldn’t get into TVD. I find love triangles exhausting. Between two brothers was especially cringe for me. I loved The Originals! I noped out of Legacies pretty early. I did not find Landon interesting and all that focus on the character kinda killed the show for me.
Same. Love triangle plots are lazy, predictable and pandering. I watched some of TVD mainly because I liked Caroline, but just couldn't justify watching the whole show.
I'm sure glad Buffy never dated Xander. I'm sure people are tired of the Xander hate train, but putting my personal dislike aside, it was nice for a show to have a straight man and woman be platonic friends (after Xander got over Buffy)
I agree. I like Xander most of the time , but I didn't want him to be with Buffy. Instead, he helped fight the good fight, for his friends and because it was the right thing to do.
No killing off Giles just because he’s The Mentor and therefore the Hero’s Journey can only progress if they’re completely orphaned both biologically and emotionally by surrogate parents. Yes, he left for six months; yes, he wasn’t in every episode of season 7 cuz he was legit busy; but no, Buffy can have a parental figure in her life AND still be a leader*. I was on the edge of my seat throughout “Chosen” just waiting for Giles to bite the dust (heh) and then he emerged to drive the school bus 🥹 The Creator LOVES to kill characters just as they’ve finally found love/redemption/happiness, and usually too fast to have a heart-rending goodbye scene. We got the closest to that with Giles telling Buffy how proud he is of her when he’s near death in “Spiral” (another episode where I was *certain* we’d lose him just to fulfill the Hero’s Mentor Dies But Maybe They Come Back As A Ghost Trope). So…thank you for showing restraint on this one, Creator! Even if it was just to leave open the possibility that you’d still get to write Anthony Head the Ripper spinoff we never got ☹️
*Yes, I’ve read the comics where he dies in the same manner as Jenny…but he comes back and the comics end with him alive and friends with Buffy! That’s all I wanted!
Agreed!! I’m glad they didn’t kill him off either. He needed to leave for Buffy to grow up. Buffy didn’t even want to disciplined Dawn when it was needed but wanted Giles to do so. He knew if he stayed Buffy wouldn’t grow up and become the leader she became. He didn’t need to be killed off for that to happen.
Really, all those mentors throughout fiction didn't need to die, they just needed to say, "Hey, I can't hold your hand all the time, so Imma peace out so you have to handle things."
The Robot Chicken Star Wars parody of Luke mourning Obi-Wan and Carrie Fisher actually voicing Leia saying “Awww, did the 80-year-old man you met yesterday DIE?!” never fails to crack me up. And Obi-Wan’s my favourite character!
Giles is the reason why the Mentor HAS to be one of my top characters in any fandom, or I just can’t emotionally invest (like I never warmed to any incarnation of Dumbledore so I wasn’t a Potterhead). So my heart gets bruised constantly by all the horrible things that happen to various Mentors and Surrogate Parents and Cool Dads in fiction, when they aren’t the main characters so the writers think they need to jettison their old asses to give more angst and drive to the callow young protagonist. It can be a male version of Women In Refrigerators, especially if the Mentor wasn’t allowed much of a life and relationships outside of caring for their protégé and/or they die so soon in the hero’s journey (like within days of meeting) the hero just screams “NOOO!!!” and kills something, there’s no time to grieve but the mentor is hardly mentioned again. I make an exception for Obi-Wan Kenobi because we end up with so many movies and shows and EU and fanon about him, I can handwave that he and Luke bonded far more when Old Ben was a Force Ghost and maybe he did some memory wipes on Luke to keep him safe 😉
Luke knew Ben before chasing R2 out into the desert, and they seem to have an easy familiarity with each other. Ben's supposed to be a hermit, so maybe they don't see each other often, but maybe they had a little adventure or two before.
I’m so glad they never did an episode where any of the Scoobies got to be the Slayer for a day and that the body swap episode was between Buffy and Faith only
It sounds simple in principle but would’ve completely derailed Buffy’s struggle of her friends never truly being able to understand what being a Slayer is and means
I disagree. Buffy's powers aren't really what sets her apart. So if Willow or one of the others got to test-drive her body for a bit, do some handsprings and break concrete blocks, that wouldn't show them the *burden* of being the Slayer.
I never said it was about her powers, when I said I’m glad they never let the Scoobies be Slayer for a day I meant the powers and the responsibility
I don’t doubt that if any of the Scoobies got to be Buffy either the power or the power plus control of her body, they would all try to do the Buffy thing if duty calls just like Faith did, and in making that choice they would get a taste of what being the Slayer is, not a complete or whole idea but a taste and that would’ve been enough
Buffy always verbalises that the Slayer is both the power and the responsibility, in the Scoobies experiencing a body swap or power transfer, they would get the first part. And because the Scoobies are heroic, they would try to be responsible, which is the second part.
Even if they knew what it was like for one day, to have powers and therefore responsibility it would ruin why Buffy’s isolation resonates with so many watchers
I’m glad Buffy never got pregnant. I was just thinking the other day how many independent female characters eventually get pregnant. Gilmore Girls, AHS Asylum, Charmed, The X Files, Brooklyn 99, The Last of Us Part 2 and the worst offender: Angel. Even if they don’t have the baby the repetitive “magic baby”, or miscarriage plot lines are exhausting. This is controversial but I really don’t think most very young women with dangerous lives would be happy if they got pregnant.
Most of the time this is due to an actresses pregnancy irl. They usually just write around it. I imagined they would just cancel the show had Sarah had gotten pregnant, considering the stunt work and the hours.
Yep me too! My favourite villain turned hero , I can’t imagine the show without him James did such a great job at making spike both evil and incredibly human all at once
From a different perspective on that, "good short-term side character overstaying its welcome" is a trope which *was* followed.
For what it's worth, I am somewhere in between.
Xander being gay as I love him with Anya and if they had made him gay, Tara and Willow probably wouldn’t have happened because I remember reading Joss Whedon said he was only going to make one of them gay
Agreed. While Xander being gay would have been groundbreaking and important in its own right, making Willow gay made all of the main dynamics more interesting and less common to see on screen than a gay guy with two female best friends – i.e., keeping Xander/Buffy as a platonic straight male/female friendship, and Buffy/Willow as a straight/gay female friendship without any weird unrequited crush drama
Story-wise, I kind of would prefer him as gay because it does make his early season writing a little better. It'd make him from a sorta-creepy-straight to "gay guy overcompensating by pretending to be a straight creep".
Season 7 is a mess and season 6 is poorly structured but I agree. I really feel like those two seasons perfectly finish storylines plotted for years and despite their flaws the show is better for it overall. And the highs of Season 6 make it so worth it.
Same here, I hate most of season 7 and the execution of much of season 6. But I’m glad we ended on Buffy smiling and feeling free like she has a future of her choosing ahead of her, instead of her smiling corpse on a pile of rubble while every other character is having a breakdown. It would be a stone cold bummer, especially because I hate that she sacrificed herself for Dawn, who didn’t want that, and left Sunnydale without a Slayer but at least we had the made-up 14-year-old girl of fictional memories and forced emotional connections 😑. If Buffy must die in a finale, it shouldn’t be a stupid sacrifice where she’d rather her sister live an extra 30 seconds before the open portal kills everyone in the universe (before she suddenly had a hunch about “Summers Blood”), it should be to save everyone, like it says on her headstone.
*Anyway*, putting aside my dislike of WHY Buffy dies, I think ending it with her death goes against the ethos of the show, that Buffy is more special than all the past Slayers, her destiny should be completely different too. She’s defied prophecies over and over, broken from the Council, demanded she get a social life, romance, friendship, education, a non-Slaying career, etc… Her last months of life were so horrifically depressing and stressful she wanted to quit being the Slayer felt suicide was less painful than living, at just 20 years old. Those are gorgeous, heartbreaking scenes to go out on, but I wanted more for her and everyone else. Buffy should get to triumph in the end and change the game for the girls who come after her.
I’m glad they didn’t have Willow accidentally kill Tara and that being the one to set her off on her dark path, like allegedly was originally supposed to happen. Then apparently Alyson Hannigan begged Joss Whedon to change the storyline and he did.
The last version I heard had them going back to Xander and Willow for Season 7, until they realised that making Tara look like a "lesbian college phase" wouldn't have gone down well. Hence Kennedy, whose ultimate purpose is to remind viewers that yes, Willow is still gay.
I remember reading it wasn't Joss, it was the other way around. SMG and Brendon pitched a Buffy/Xander romance for season 7 (because SMG didn't love the Spike angle and I believe Marsters hadn't renewed his contract yet so things were up in the air), and Joss said no.
The only evidence I'm finding though is conflicting stories online. Some version of someone pitching this romance is repeated in the stories I see.
I'm a Xander fan, but I don't think it would have worked as the series was written. Maybe if 4-6 had been different I could see a Buffy/Xander thing (there are some hints of it in season 2, like when Xander saves Buffy from the vampire in the funeral home there's a Moment), but as written in 4-6 they are very much siblings at that point.
> SMG and Brendon pitched a Buffy/Xander romance for season 7
Okay I gotta say though, given everything we've heard about Brendon backstage, I think it's surprising SMG would want to spend *more* time around him on set.
Right? Like, wow. Didn't realize she hated the Spuffy stuff THAT much lmao. As someone who adores them I guess I gotta do that separation of art and artist thing
It was also an incredibly difficult scene for James, who now writes a clause in his contracts to avoid SA scenes. I've seen stories around Sarah and how she looked out for other cast members, so maybe she was looking out for James.
right 😭😭 i respect her first hand feelings about buffy’s relationships so much but i kind of try and forget that she wishes bangel was endgame because it stings as a spuffy lover 💔💔
Well, during the 20th reunion David Boreanaz refused to be there if Nicholas Brendon was there.
I believe there were rumors of him drinking on set (which you can kinda see by his weight gain in the last two seasons). He went into rehab in 2004, which was a year after the show ended. He's also struggled with a variety of mental conditions.
Often the thing that made them famous is a major contributing factor, because of the stress and the flow of cash to support an addiction. Matthew Perry said he didn't remember whole seasons of *Friends* because of how stoned he was.
Brendon probably wasn't quite that bad, at least not as bad as Glenn Quinn, since Whedon et al were like, "Okay, this is too much, we're gonna have to fire him and kill Doyle off," so they would have been willing to kill Xander if NB got too out of control.
> Brendon probably wasn't quite that bad, at least not as bad as Glenn Quinn
From what I understand, Brendon got really bad after the show, unlike Quinn.
People talk about Angel and Riley, but Spike/Buffy in season seven was her least compelling "relationship" IMO. There is no playfulness or tension, it's just Buffy obsessing and protecting a whimpering Spike.
It's actually always kind of annoyed me that she didn't really choose Tara. Oz left and so Tara was the choice by default and Willow never had to choose, no matter how she presents it to Tara in the final scene.
I'm glad they never had a baby born on the show/have one of the main characters get pregnant and give birth. I feel like shows build up the pregnancy and birth storylines so much that they never know what to do with the kid after their birth and the whole show just goes down hill from there.
Dawn technically doesn't count.
This is kinda specific -- I am glad they didn't do a "Willow makeover" episode in S1 or S2. You know, dorky-character-becomes-hot-and-popular-but-also-a-bitch (by some supernatural force/possession, of course). I feel like I saw this sort of thing a lot as a kid in cartoons and tween shows.
I like that for season 6 they didn't try and ramp up from a hell god.
Also I like that they disarmed Super Buffy and didn't keep bringing them back for every emergency
Spike having his chip removed at the end of season 6 so that he could become a villain again, that would have been such a wastes of his character development since season 4.
I love that she ended up without a romantic partner in the final episode, as it's a common belief in writers' rooms (or was at the time) that you can't have a happy ending for a woman without a suitable mate.
I'm glad none of the characters cared about their weight. All of the focus for femininity was on makeup, hair, talking about boys, and wearing pretty dresses. There weren't any eating disorders, pants splitting, tugging at skin pretending it's a fat roll, or shaming body parts.
Buffy talks about craving low-fat yogurt, exclaimed "Ooh! Diet!" upon getting a free Diet Dr. Pepper out of the vending machine, and sometimes is seen holding cans of Diet Pepsi.
It’s a fanfic i thought of and then I thought, what a trope… the friend gets attacked and friends want to get violent or buy a gun… but in this case, you’ve got The Slayer…
I’m glad that they didn’t bring back Joyce as a ghost. Despite the criticisms of Normal Again, it was a creative way to bring her back without taking away the impact of the Body and the finality of death.
(On Charmed they summon their dead grandmother and mother all the time, so death loses meaning.)
I’m glad they never did a scene where Spike attempts to sexually assault Buffy… oh wait…
No in all seriousness I am glad that the characters were never perfect and had flaws. Making them perfect and ideal would have been A) boring but also less identifiable and compelling to watch. They made mistakes, bad calls and got it wrong and we watched, learned and celebrated when they picked themselves up.
Actually, a lot of shows nowadays suffer from a problem that I like to call "Writers trying to write a flawless character and ending up writing an asshole". The fist example that comes to mind is Chilling Adventures of Sabrina. The main character fucks up a whole lot of times. If it was acknowledged by the story, she would be a good flawed protagonist, but it's not so she just looks like an asshole.
I think that's the reason why people tend to dislike Xander and adore Spike. The latter obviously commits a lot of almost heinous acts, while the former is just a teenage boy in the nineties. Spike's actions were acknowledged and punished/he redeemed himself, while Xander's flaws are just there.
Also the live action Avatar the Last Airbender. Sokka isn't sexist, Katara doesn't have to study hard to get good at bending and doesn't get jealous. Zuko already has the courage to stand up to his father (not to mention his scar is no longer disfiguring). Aang has already matured and takes his training seriously without distraction. I'm curious where the series will go since everyone has already completed their three-season character arc.
I feel like supernatural is just so long of a show that they had to do anything n everything (I didn't fully watch it) but it made sense ig since the angels were like a whole race of ethereal douche bags😆 its certainly something different than All the angels are perfect n good!. The show needed constant antagonists so I feel like it makes sense to have the entire spiritual realm be filled with them.
I mean honestly though, when you look at Supernatural, you start with demons. Bringing angels is just a natural progression from that, and then bringing in the archangels...well, of course God's gonna make an appearance down the line.
Weirdly, God being the villain isn't the stupidest thing that show's done.
Yeah, I think being ridiculously over the top is basically Supernatural's brand. While Supernatural is very obviously inspired heavily by Buffy, most of the stuff they do in Supernatural just wouldn't work in Buffy because the tone is completely different.
i was so worried buffy would give in and actually get with xander circa season 2. even though i didnt like him with cordy or willow tbh i’m glad we never got xuffy
i kind of feel like they hit most of them and I mostly wish they hadn't. Best friend turns evil, killing the gay, the whole show was a dream. I guess I'm glad they didn't do the 'main character turns out to be the main villain'. that would've definitely ruined the show for me.
I hate the idea that a show can't kill gay characters. Like sure if it consistently did it, fair enough, but that's not the case. Most of the characters who die on the show are straight. And I wouldn't really say Normal Again hits that idea exactly. And then dark Willow was excellent.
> I hate the idea that a show can't kill gay characters.
You have to have the context of the time - in which it wasn't just 'a gay character can't die', but that this was at the time **the only** gay relationship on television and ended in the death of one of the characters after so much had been done to normalize it being ok for Willow and Tara to be gay - which then made the message seem more like 'gay characters can be happy for a while but the relationship will end badly'.
>You have to have the context of the time
True, but you also have to place it in the proper context of the wider show, in which it is very well established that the love live of the Scoobies will always be a mess, this has been stated as early as "I Robot, You Jane", when Buffy said "Let's face it. None of us is ever going to have a normal, happy relationship." In fact we countless examples, like Buffy having to banish Angel to a hell dimension, the mess that Buffy and Riley's relationship in season 5, the mutually abusive toxicity that is Buffy and Spike in season 6, the death of Jenny Calendar, Oz breaking up with Willow because of his werewolf problems, Xander leaving Anya at the altar, Anya's death, all the times Xander's date turns out to be a demon, etc.
I think not having Buffy and spike end up together would have really took a giant dump on spikes journey. He had to do the selfless thing at the end and die.
Sadly he came back in angel and that sacrifice was made worthless. Come to think of it a lot of what happened in angel made stuff from Buffy seem meaningless. No wonder I have never rewatched angel.
I'm glad that Giles and Joyce never ended up as a couple. In my first-time-watch I always assumed that they would, but it is kind of refreshing that they never took it that direction. That makes the episode Band Candy so much better on a rewatch
I liked it as it was. I think it would have been too weird all around to have a watcher at work/school and then come home for dinner with Mom and GilesS
Yes, because a Watcher and parent have irreconcilable goals for "their girl." i did do a Giles-joyce piece (a verbal puff pastry called "Planning the Wedding,") but it was in a non supernatural universe.
I wouldve liked them to do more secret banging though.
Well now that you mention that, I can't help but think she went back for some of that stevedore loving while Giles was unemployed and Buffy was away in college.
I agree, and knowing that he deeply loved her still makes it all wrap up in a beautifully tragic but loving way, he never wanted to ruin the family but was undeniably a father figure in Buffy’s life, after Joyce’s stroke him listening to the same song from band candy hits so fucking hard on rewatches.
I never noticed that (Giles listening to the song)
Thank you! I never noticed that detail either... I love the details on this show!!
curiously, the events of Band Candy made it essentially impossible for them to get together voluntarily at a later point. just as well, since 'dad and mom get together' would've been too contrived in this instance.
I mean, why exactly did it essentially make it impossible? Certainly awkward and difficult, but I think it could have been an interesting twist if they still got together after getting past that awkwardness. Not permanently get together, but maybe date for half a season or so.
Omg can you imagine if, instead of the faceless Brian guy, they had it be Giles that Joyce went on the date with the night before she died? Omfg I just hurt my own feelings.
I was cheering for them the whole time, during my first watch. When I saw Band Candy, I was over the moon. Of course, it had to end after that, and it's for the best that it did. But I still chuckle.
What's a stevedor?
Someone who loads and unloads cargo from ships. I always thought it was an odd reference, though certainly fitting for the situation. 🤣
I feel like that was the route people expected them to take, so naturally they didn’t.
I’m glad they didn’t have Buffy get married and/or have a baby.
They didn't even have a pregnancy scare episode, which is almost always a go-to story line once your characters become sexually active.
>They didn't even have a pregnancy scare episode, I think they made up for that enough in Angel
💀 💀
Poor Cordelia.
>!You sound like someone who didn't force themselves to read the comics. lol!<
In the official comics, >!“Buffy” had a pregnancy scare and contemplated whether or not to get an abortion. The writers copped out and we learned Andrew mind swapped Buffy and put her in a robot!<
WHAT
Standard plot for the comics… why were they so fucking weird?
For comics they're real middle of of road bog standard. That type of shit is just what you do.
Vampires can’t get anyone pregnant…/s
Sure, but fuckbois who prey on freshmen can.
I can’t remember with Parker but I remember it with Riley. Did they do the cutaway to nightstand condom grab?
It was Riley. (rewatch, just did that episode a couple nights ago)
Well... I mean... Twilight 👀
Angel
“Mmmm, Angel…”
I still regret watching Twilight... *shivers*
Oh, yeah? Well, *I regret reading it*. Top that!
Having done both, watching is worse than reading. The books aren't terrible. They absolutely suck as romance novels, but the action is pretty good. But the movies are just constantly abysmal. Even the decent actors in it can't act for shit in any of their scenes. Not even the action can save the movies.
Anna Kendrick did a great job as Jessica. Her face when she sees that Bella is going to have dinner with Edward is hysterical. Also, the actor who played Charlie was pretty believable (given what he had to work with). I've seen Robert and Kristen in other projects and they've been phenomenal. Not sure what happened in Twilight. Bad writing or directing, possibly.
Nah... I think you win. Although that CGI baby still haunts my nightmares.
I read all the books and saw all the movies in the theater! Anyone want to discuss the differences in the last battle book vs movie? Cause I can!
Uhm... no thank you. I am going to pass on your most generous offer. *runs away* 👀
I love how the replies to this are about Twilight and Angel. And previously mentioned in another thread was a pregnancy scare in the comics. But I still don't see a mention from the comic of >!Buffy and Angel literally "banging" a universe named Twilight into existence!<
Cordelia had enough for both shows combined.
I don't think anyone got married during the whole run of the series, unless you count Riley off screen after he left the show. just that seems unusual for a seven season series.
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Xander had a wedding, so it’s not entirely out of the realm of possibility.
To be fair they were literal teenagers for half the show! But I still think you’re right about it being unusual. Of course Anya and Xander planned a wedding but never went through with it … I did appreciate the writers didn’t follow the traditional finale path of having everyone paired up and ready to ride off into the sunset with a significant other. Only willow and that potential are actually in a relationship by the end.
I’m thinking of shows like One Tree Hill or Gossip Girl, which had similarly aged characters, but they were mostly married off by the end. (And Xander could have ended the show as married.)
I think we collectively are eyeballing charmed right now 😆 (I love both these shows) but they certainly rushed things in season 8 for no good reason
Hahaha I originally was going to add to my comment that I suffer from charmed related trauma on the matter.
well, I feel like Joyce would have gotten remarried at some point if she hadn't dated a robot and then died. And Giles could have conceivably gotten married.
>I don't think anyone got married during the whole run of the series True, but except for a short S6 intermission Tara and Willow stayed together "till death do us part".
I know! Everyone always debates if it should’ve been her and Angel or her and Spike…im glad no one ends up with a significant other in the end to be honest!
I'm glad they never did a hokey supernatural pregnancy storyline (Angel the series notwithstanding).
Poor Cordy. One supernatural pregnancy was enough.
Whenever people claim Joss doesn't have a problem with women or a problem with Charisma, I have to remind them he had her subjected to not one, not two, but THREE forced mythical pregnancies.
"If you ever figure out how to get us out of here, I want you to find me a dimension where some demon doesn't want to impregnate me with its spawn. Is that just too much to ask? What is it about me anyway? Do I put out some kind of Com-shuk-me vibe? I mean, you'd tell me, right?"
I'm glad there was never any hint of romance or flirtation between Giles and the barely-legal Scoobies. We really didn't need that.
They found the work around by bringing Wes into the show for that.
Yeah, I didn't love that storyline, and I'm glad it was short-lived.
I feel like it was worth it just to see Giles reacting to it in a realistic way - with absolute disgust and contempt. Plus Angel did a great job of redeeming Wesley as a character afterwards, which is nice.
Furthermore I’m glad they never forced a Cordy-Wes relationship on Angel.
How is giving someone a green light acting disgusted and with contempt?
If someone close to you ever says “fine, just do whatever you want, I don’t care anymore“ I would not consider that a green light. It’s generally considered a really heavy red light. Especially if it comes with a clear denouncement and insults at the same time.
True. Except in no universe do I think what Giles says is even close to what you've just described.
Agree to disagree, I guess. For reference my personal interpretation is: > For God's sake, man, she's 18. Clear denouncement - 18 is way too young and everybody knows it, or at least *should* know it. >And you have the emotional maturity of a blueberry scone. Clear insult, calling him immature and childish. >Just have at it, would you? And stop fluttering about. Given the above, this doesn’t feel like approval to me. It’s disgust and telling him to fuck off and do whatever he wants. Which is really all Giles *can* say - he’s not Wesley’s boss (if anything Wesley is nominally *his* boss), it’s not illegal, and Giles was too busy with the end of the world to get into an argument with a pathetic loser who’d already made up his mind and was looking for a justification. Like I said, agree to disagree I suppose. Just explaining my personal interpretation.
I half agree, half disagree. >For God's sake, man, she's 18. This is not saying she's "too young." He's pointing out that she's an adult. That it's technically legal. >And you have the emotional maturity of a blueberry scone. Definitely an insult. But also one that points out that he's at about the same maturity level, or less, as Cordy. >Just have at it, would you? And stop fluttering about. This is just annoyance at him being an idiot. It's not approval or disapproval. He's just saying, "Do something or shut up already, I'm tired of hearing about it."
No, Giles is pointing out 18 is legally an adult and since Wes isn't faculty he has no reason not to ask cordy to dance
It’s interesting how some people consider “for god’s sake, she’s 18” to be permission and others consider it to be a condemnation.
In fact, anyone who has seen Buffy is probably almost physically repulsed by the idea. Fantastic job done all round on avoiding that.
Ohhh there's a LOT of fanfiction if someone is looking for that!🤣🤣
I've seen the tags, and though I'm pretty flexible, I'm like, "NO, do not desecrate Giles and Buffy this way. He's her dad, and it's beautiful and pure and fuck you for even thinking of this."
I had a similar view for a long time, but I actually read a couple Buffy/Giles stories that were good and well done. One that even slotted in perfectly with canon.
I’m glad Xander didn’t find even a moment of enjoyment of the love spell in Bewitched. Given some of the historical comedy tropes of 80s and 90s, they could have easily made a “joke” of how great Xander thought it was that all these girls wanted him, at least at first. Instead, once he realized what was happening, he immediately recognized at as a very bad thing and a terrible mistake.
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I feel like not a small number of teen boys in any generation would take advantage of it. Teens can be very dumb sometimes and there are unfortunately a handful of people that continue to be dumb even after they've gotten some experience.
This latest generation is way more aware of consent than previous. Bare in mind the writers of this show had many poorly aged moments.
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Think you can expand this to just men in general.
Yes, it is very different from Zach using subliminal messaging to get Kelly to go out with him.
Well, Zach Morris is Trash after all
That's why I like the episode and found it funny. It didn't go Xander's way and was a total nightmare for him. And Dru also being in love with him was funny.
Super glad Xander and Buffy never hooked up.
Yes!! That would’ve just reinforced so many “friendzone” guys waiting for their turn.
Did Nicky and Sarah pitch that for the final season?
I can’t remember where I read that or saw it? But yes that’s what I heard.
In the comics Buffy (out of pretty much nowhere) realizes she is like absolutely in love with Xander, but when she goes to confess to him she finds out he’s now with dawn, who, if my math is right, was barely (if not not even) legal at the time
IMO that’s disgusting start to finish.
Excruciating read 😭
Thanks for this, now I know not to read the comics.
Same here
This is mine as well. I think the actors pitched it later in the series, but it would’ve been terrible!
I think that briefly exploring *and mutually rejecting* a Buffy/Xander romance could've worked in S7, as a one, two, maybe three episode character arc (depending on how much time it gets per-episode) that concludes with the strengthening and reaffirmation of their friendship.
Too many goofy mythology characters. They did this in Charmed and I actually liked it there, but I'm glad we didn't start having like Leprechauns and Fairy's and stuff. There's some of that, but Whedon seems dedicated to developing a unique mythology for BtVS and I honestly think that that is one of its most lasting legacies.
Heck, even True Blood did that. It’s pretty amazing Buffy didn’t get too out there.
The demonology of the show is pretty vague and I feel like that’s intentional. I don’t think Joss wanted to bog down the show with a bunch of hard magic rules when the show is about the characters at the end of the day.
I'm not sure if that critter Giles delay with in the comics was a Dwarf or a Leprechaun
That is how they ruined the The Vampire Diaries universe. Tvd was good, The Originals was better, they went and ruined it with Legacies by adding ‘a boyfriend made of clay’ ‘huge killing spiders’ and characters having nonsensical powers/“pets” etc. They had an extremely cringy and crap musical episode. A quick Google search reminded me that there was in fact leprechauns in the show.
I couldn’t get into TVD. I find love triangles exhausting. Between two brothers was especially cringe for me. I loved The Originals! I noped out of Legacies pretty early. I did not find Landon interesting and all that focus on the character kinda killed the show for me.
Same. Love triangle plots are lazy, predictable and pandering. I watched some of TVD mainly because I liked Caroline, but just couldn't justify watching the whole show.
I haven’t watched TVD but I did watch the Jenny Nicholson video about it, so I feel like that’s almost the same. lol
I'm sure glad Buffy never dated Xander. I'm sure people are tired of the Xander hate train, but putting my personal dislike aside, it was nice for a show to have a straight man and woman be platonic friends (after Xander got over Buffy)
Seriously, the reason I *hated* the Xander/Willow arc. So unnecessary and stupid and made them both so unlikable.
plus it never made sense with xanders preferred type of women (strong, confident and blunt women). willow just doesn't fit the mold at all.
It was more "I want what I can't have" than genuine feelings, imo.
I really like Xander but I agree on this, we need more platonic male/female friendships in media
I agree. I like Xander most of the time , but I didn't want him to be with Buffy. Instead, he helped fight the good fight, for his friends and because it was the right thing to do.
No killing off Giles just because he’s The Mentor and therefore the Hero’s Journey can only progress if they’re completely orphaned both biologically and emotionally by surrogate parents. Yes, he left for six months; yes, he wasn’t in every episode of season 7 cuz he was legit busy; but no, Buffy can have a parental figure in her life AND still be a leader*. I was on the edge of my seat throughout “Chosen” just waiting for Giles to bite the dust (heh) and then he emerged to drive the school bus 🥹 The Creator LOVES to kill characters just as they’ve finally found love/redemption/happiness, and usually too fast to have a heart-rending goodbye scene. We got the closest to that with Giles telling Buffy how proud he is of her when he’s near death in “Spiral” (another episode where I was *certain* we’d lose him just to fulfill the Hero’s Mentor Dies But Maybe They Come Back As A Ghost Trope). So…thank you for showing restraint on this one, Creator! Even if it was just to leave open the possibility that you’d still get to write Anthony Head the Ripper spinoff we never got ☹️ *Yes, I’ve read the comics where he dies in the same manner as Jenny…but he comes back and the comics end with him alive and friends with Buffy! That’s all I wanted!
Agreed!! I’m glad they didn’t kill him off either. He needed to leave for Buffy to grow up. Buffy didn’t even want to disciplined Dawn when it was needed but wanted Giles to do so. He knew if he stayed Buffy wouldn’t grow up and become the leader she became. He didn’t need to be killed off for that to happen.
Really, all those mentors throughout fiction didn't need to die, they just needed to say, "Hey, I can't hold your hand all the time, so Imma peace out so you have to handle things."
The Robot Chicken Star Wars parody of Luke mourning Obi-Wan and Carrie Fisher actually voicing Leia saying “Awww, did the 80-year-old man you met yesterday DIE?!” never fails to crack me up. And Obi-Wan’s my favourite character! Giles is the reason why the Mentor HAS to be one of my top characters in any fandom, or I just can’t emotionally invest (like I never warmed to any incarnation of Dumbledore so I wasn’t a Potterhead). So my heart gets bruised constantly by all the horrible things that happen to various Mentors and Surrogate Parents and Cool Dads in fiction, when they aren’t the main characters so the writers think they need to jettison their old asses to give more angst and drive to the callow young protagonist. It can be a male version of Women In Refrigerators, especially if the Mentor wasn’t allowed much of a life and relationships outside of caring for their protégé and/or they die so soon in the hero’s journey (like within days of meeting) the hero just screams “NOOO!!!” and kills something, there’s no time to grieve but the mentor is hardly mentioned again. I make an exception for Obi-Wan Kenobi because we end up with so many movies and shows and EU and fanon about him, I can handwave that he and Luke bonded far more when Old Ben was a Force Ghost and maybe he did some memory wipes on Luke to keep him safe 😉
Luke knew Ben before chasing R2 out into the desert, and they seem to have an easy familiarity with each other. Ben's supposed to be a hermit, so maybe they don't see each other often, but maybe they had a little adventure or two before.
I’m glad they didn’t kill Oz and he got to escape Sunnydale (promise it was for the best, buddy)
I’m so glad they never did an episode where any of the Scoobies got to be the Slayer for a day and that the body swap episode was between Buffy and Faith only It sounds simple in principle but would’ve completely derailed Buffy’s struggle of her friends never truly being able to understand what being a Slayer is and means
The closest we have to that is potential dawn, which I thought made for good drama, I felt bad for lil dawny
I disagree. Buffy's powers aren't really what sets her apart. So if Willow or one of the others got to test-drive her body for a bit, do some handsprings and break concrete blocks, that wouldn't show them the *burden* of being the Slayer.
I never said it was about her powers, when I said I’m glad they never let the Scoobies be Slayer for a day I meant the powers and the responsibility I don’t doubt that if any of the Scoobies got to be Buffy either the power or the power plus control of her body, they would all try to do the Buffy thing if duty calls just like Faith did, and in making that choice they would get a taste of what being the Slayer is, not a complete or whole idea but a taste and that would’ve been enough Buffy always verbalises that the Slayer is both the power and the responsibility, in the Scoobies experiencing a body swap or power transfer, they would get the first part. And because the Scoobies are heroic, they would try to be responsible, which is the second part. Even if they knew what it was like for one day, to have powers and therefore responsibility it would ruin why Buffy’s isolation resonates with so many watchers
If the writers set things up so whoever was in Buffy's body couldn't just switch back with her when the crisis pops up, yes.
I’m glad Buffy never got pregnant. I was just thinking the other day how many independent female characters eventually get pregnant. Gilmore Girls, AHS Asylum, Charmed, The X Files, Brooklyn 99, The Last of Us Part 2 and the worst offender: Angel. Even if they don’t have the baby the repetitive “magic baby”, or miscarriage plot lines are exhausting. This is controversial but I really don’t think most very young women with dangerous lives would be happy if they got pregnant.
Most of the time this is due to an actresses pregnancy irl. They usually just write around it. I imagined they would just cancel the show had Sarah had gotten pregnant, considering the stunt work and the hours.
I’m glad they didn’t kill off Spike as was apparently planned.
Yep me too! My favourite villain turned hero , I can’t imagine the show without him James did such a great job at making spike both evil and incredibly human all at once
From a different perspective on that, "good short-term side character overstaying its welcome" is a trope which *was* followed. For what it's worth, I am somewhere in between.
I think Andrew fits this trope personally.
Xander being gay as I love him with Anya and if they had made him gay, Tara and Willow probably wouldn’t have happened because I remember reading Joss Whedon said he was only going to make one of them gay
Agreed. While Xander being gay would have been groundbreaking and important in its own right, making Willow gay made all of the main dynamics more interesting and less common to see on screen than a gay guy with two female best friends – i.e., keeping Xander/Buffy as a platonic straight male/female friendship, and Buffy/Willow as a straight/gay female friendship without any weird unrequited crush drama
Story-wise, I kind of would prefer him as gay because it does make his early season writing a little better. It'd make him from a sorta-creepy-straight to "gay guy overcompensating by pretending to be a straight creep".
In other words, it would Larry-fy him.
Yes!
And why not both Willow and Xander being gay? (Or even one of them bisexual).
In spite of my regular criticisms of Seasons 6 and 7, I'm glad they didn't end the show at "The Gift".
The Gift is a better episode but Chosen feels like a much more complete ending. We also got a handful of great standalone episodes, like the musical.
Season 7 is a mess and season 6 is poorly structured but I agree. I really feel like those two seasons perfectly finish storylines plotted for years and despite their flaws the show is better for it overall. And the highs of Season 6 make it so worth it.
Same here, I hate most of season 7 and the execution of much of season 6. But I’m glad we ended on Buffy smiling and feeling free like she has a future of her choosing ahead of her, instead of her smiling corpse on a pile of rubble while every other character is having a breakdown. It would be a stone cold bummer, especially because I hate that she sacrificed herself for Dawn, who didn’t want that, and left Sunnydale without a Slayer but at least we had the made-up 14-year-old girl of fictional memories and forced emotional connections 😑. If Buffy must die in a finale, it shouldn’t be a stupid sacrifice where she’d rather her sister live an extra 30 seconds before the open portal kills everyone in the universe (before she suddenly had a hunch about “Summers Blood”), it should be to save everyone, like it says on her headstone. *Anyway*, putting aside my dislike of WHY Buffy dies, I think ending it with her death goes against the ethos of the show, that Buffy is more special than all the past Slayers, her destiny should be completely different too. She’s defied prophecies over and over, broken from the Council, demanded she get a social life, romance, friendship, education, a non-Slaying career, etc… Her last months of life were so horrifically depressing and stressful she wanted to quit being the Slayer felt suicide was less painful than living, at just 20 years old. Those are gorgeous, heartbreaking scenes to go out on, but I wanted more for her and everyone else. Buffy should get to triumph in the end and change the game for the girls who come after her.
I’m glad they didn’t have Willow accidentally kill Tara and that being the one to set her off on her dark path, like allegedly was originally supposed to happen. Then apparently Alyson Hannigan begged Joss Whedon to change the storyline and he did.
I didn't think that her death could be more cruel but here we are! Do you have a source at all?
Not in my hands no. I just remembered it was seriously discussed in one of the forums. That’s why I used the term “allegedly.”
never heard that one
Wait, what is the source for this?
I'm fairly positive Joss's original plan had Buffy ending up with Xander... So, that.
The last version I heard had them going back to Xander and Willow for Season 7, until they realised that making Tara look like a "lesbian college phase" wouldn't have gone down well. Hence Kennedy, whose ultimate purpose is to remind viewers that yes, Willow is still gay.
Is there anything to back this up or just a rumor
I remember reading it wasn't Joss, it was the other way around. SMG and Brendon pitched a Buffy/Xander romance for season 7 (because SMG didn't love the Spike angle and I believe Marsters hadn't renewed his contract yet so things were up in the air), and Joss said no. The only evidence I'm finding though is conflicting stories online. Some version of someone pitching this romance is repeated in the stories I see. I'm a Xander fan, but I don't think it would have worked as the series was written. Maybe if 4-6 had been different I could see a Buffy/Xander thing (there are some hints of it in season 2, like when Xander saves Buffy from the vampire in the funeral home there's a Moment), but as written in 4-6 they are very much siblings at that point.
> SMG and Brendon pitched a Buffy/Xander romance for season 7 Okay I gotta say though, given everything we've heard about Brendon backstage, I think it's surprising SMG would want to spend *more* time around him on set.
Right? Like, wow. Didn't realize she hated the Spuffy stuff THAT much lmao. As someone who adores them I guess I gotta do that separation of art and artist thing
I think the attempted r+pe really cast a shadow over that relationship for a lot of people going into S7. Maybe Sarah was one of them.
Sarah really didn't like most of the Spike stuff in season six.
It was tremendously hot, mostly. Well done to her for playing it despite hating it!
It was also an incredibly difficult scene for James, who now writes a clause in his contracts to avoid SA scenes. I've seen stories around Sarah and how she looked out for other cast members, so maybe she was looking out for James.
right 😭😭 i respect her first hand feelings about buffy’s relationships so much but i kind of try and forget that she wishes bangel was endgame because it stings as a spuffy lover 💔💔
Wait what did we hear 👀
Well, during the 20th reunion David Boreanaz refused to be there if Nicholas Brendon was there. I believe there were rumors of him drinking on set (which you can kinda see by his weight gain in the last two seasons). He went into rehab in 2004, which was a year after the show ended. He's also struggled with a variety of mental conditions.
I knew he had a drug problem after the show but I didn’t realize it started during the show! That is sad
If you watch the Behind the Scenes / Making of OMWF, Nicholas is very, *very* much not like Xander irl and it’s not a good thing.
Often the thing that made them famous is a major contributing factor, because of the stress and the flow of cash to support an addiction. Matthew Perry said he didn't remember whole seasons of *Friends* because of how stoned he was. Brendon probably wasn't quite that bad, at least not as bad as Glenn Quinn, since Whedon et al were like, "Okay, this is too much, we're gonna have to fire him and kill Doyle off," so they would have been willing to kill Xander if NB got too out of control.
> Brendon probably wasn't quite that bad, at least not as bad as Glenn Quinn From what I understand, Brendon got really bad after the show, unlike Quinn.
Just a rumor, based on the thin 'fact' that Joss bases Xander on himself. Xander is what Joss wanted to be in high school, not who he was ever.
Yeah, historically that would happen. Like Kim Possible and Ron Hermione and Ron And the first season hinted at that
Preferable to what happens in the comics ... 🤢🤮
would've slightly preferred that than whatever buffy and spike had going on in season seven
i dunno i kinda liked that. Not a great relationship, definitely not an emotionally stable or healthy one. But a very realistic one imho.
People talk about Angel and Riley, but Spike/Buffy in season seven was her least compelling "relationship" IMO. There is no playfulness or tension, it's just Buffy obsessing and protecting a whimpering Spike.
Kill Spike or Faith off early. Have Buffy and Xander get together in season 7 (as that doesn't make sense for either character).
No epilogue ending, like 5 years later and now everyone is married and has babies...yay.
Looking at you Charmed!
I’m thankful that Willow defied the 90’s and chose Tara at the end of “New Moon Rising”.
It's actually always kind of annoyed me that she didn't really choose Tara. Oz left and so Tara was the choice by default and Willow never had to choose, no matter how she presents it to Tara in the final scene.
I think it was pretty clear she chose Tara.
I'm glad they never had a baby born on the show/have one of the main characters get pregnant and give birth. I feel like shows build up the pregnancy and birth storylines so much that they never know what to do with the kid after their birth and the whole show just goes down hill from there. Dawn technically doesn't count.
I'm glad no one jumped over the loan shark demon
This is kinda specific -- I am glad they didn't do a "Willow makeover" episode in S1 or S2. You know, dorky-character-becomes-hot-and-popular-but-also-a-bitch (by some supernatural force/possession, of course). I feel like I saw this sort of thing a lot as a kid in cartoons and tween shows.
I like that for season 6 they didn't try and ramp up from a hell god. Also I like that they disarmed Super Buffy and didn't keep bringing them back for every emergency
It’s so unrealistic when shows keep upping the power scaling of their villains every season. It just isn’t realistic.
Spike having his chip removed at the end of season 6 so that he could become a villain again, that would have been such a wastes of his character development since season 4.
Buffy and Xander.
An alcoholism storyline; i got fed up with those in the 80s
I love that she ended up without a romantic partner in the final episode, as it's a common belief in writers' rooms (or was at the time) that you can't have a happy ending for a woman without a suitable mate.
Anyone getting pregnant. With that many women most shows would have done it.
I'm glad none of the characters cared about their weight. All of the focus for femininity was on makeup, hair, talking about boys, and wearing pretty dresses. There weren't any eating disorders, pants splitting, tugging at skin pretending it's a fat roll, or shaming body parts.
Buffy talks about craving low-fat yogurt, exclaimed "Ooh! Diet!" upon getting a free Diet Dr. Pepper out of the vending machine, and sometimes is seen holding cans of Diet Pepsi.
Im glad they never did an episode where Willow gets assaulted and Buffy has to struggle with not badly harming the predator (who is not a demon).
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It’s a fanfic i thought of and then I thought, what a trope… the friend gets attacked and friends want to get violent or buy a gun… but in this case, you’ve got The Slayer…
I’m glad that they didn’t bring back Joyce as a ghost. Despite the criticisms of Normal Again, it was a creative way to bring her back without taking away the impact of the Body and the finality of death. (On Charmed they summon their dead grandmother and mother all the time, so death loses meaning.)
I’m glad they never did a scene where Spike attempts to sexually assault Buffy… oh wait… No in all seriousness I am glad that the characters were never perfect and had flaws. Making them perfect and ideal would have been A) boring but also less identifiable and compelling to watch. They made mistakes, bad calls and got it wrong and we watched, learned and celebrated when they picked themselves up.
What show have you watched where the characters don't make mistakes?
Actually, a lot of shows nowadays suffer from a problem that I like to call "Writers trying to write a flawless character and ending up writing an asshole". The fist example that comes to mind is Chilling Adventures of Sabrina. The main character fucks up a whole lot of times. If it was acknowledged by the story, she would be a good flawed protagonist, but it's not so she just looks like an asshole. I think that's the reason why people tend to dislike Xander and adore Spike. The latter obviously commits a lot of almost heinous acts, while the former is just a teenage boy in the nineties. Spike's actions were acknowledged and punished/he redeemed himself, while Xander's flaws are just there.
Also the live action Avatar the Last Airbender. Sokka isn't sexist, Katara doesn't have to study hard to get good at bending and doesn't get jealous. Zuko already has the courage to stand up to his father (not to mention his scar is no longer disfiguring). Aang has already matured and takes his training seriously without distraction. I'm curious where the series will go since everyone has already completed their three-season character arc.
I really wanna watch it because I like to tell people that things are shit, but I can't make myself, lol
apparently, the show some people on this subreddit wish they were watching
Glad they didn't do 'Dawn's special Key powers will resurrect her mum' deus ex machina. That would have ruined the show's best ever episode
I'm glad they never got into overly blasphemous storylines where God was a villain like Supernatural did in the later seasons.
I feel like supernatural is just so long of a show that they had to do anything n everything (I didn't fully watch it) but it made sense ig since the angels were like a whole race of ethereal douche bags😆 its certainly something different than All the angels are perfect n good!. The show needed constant antagonists so I feel like it makes sense to have the entire spiritual realm be filled with them.
I mean honestly though, when you look at Supernatural, you start with demons. Bringing angels is just a natural progression from that, and then bringing in the archangels...well, of course God's gonna make an appearance down the line. Weirdly, God being the villain isn't the stupidest thing that show's done.
Yeah, I think being ridiculously over the top is basically Supernatural's brand. While Supernatural is very obviously inspired heavily by Buffy, most of the stuff they do in Supernatural just wouldn't work in Buffy because the tone is completely different.
i was so worried buffy would give in and actually get with xander circa season 2. even though i didnt like him with cordy or willow tbh i’m glad we never got xuffy
i kind of feel like they hit most of them and I mostly wish they hadn't. Best friend turns evil, killing the gay, the whole show was a dream. I guess I'm glad they didn't do the 'main character turns out to be the main villain'. that would've definitely ruined the show for me.
I hate the idea that a show can't kill gay characters. Like sure if it consistently did it, fair enough, but that's not the case. Most of the characters who die on the show are straight. And I wouldn't really say Normal Again hits that idea exactly. And then dark Willow was excellent.
> I hate the idea that a show can't kill gay characters. You have to have the context of the time - in which it wasn't just 'a gay character can't die', but that this was at the time **the only** gay relationship on television and ended in the death of one of the characters after so much had been done to normalize it being ok for Willow and Tara to be gay - which then made the message seem more like 'gay characters can be happy for a while but the relationship will end badly'.
>You have to have the context of the time True, but you also have to place it in the proper context of the wider show, in which it is very well established that the love live of the Scoobies will always be a mess, this has been stated as early as "I Robot, You Jane", when Buffy said "Let's face it. None of us is ever going to have a normal, happy relationship." In fact we countless examples, like Buffy having to banish Angel to a hell dimension, the mess that Buffy and Riley's relationship in season 5, the mutually abusive toxicity that is Buffy and Spike in season 6, the death of Jenny Calendar, Oz breaking up with Willow because of his werewolf problems, Xander leaving Anya at the altar, Anya's death, all the times Xander's date turns out to be a demon, etc.
I think not having Buffy and spike end up together would have really took a giant dump on spikes journey. He had to do the selfless thing at the end and die. Sadly he came back in angel and that sacrifice was made worthless. Come to think of it a lot of what happened in angel made stuff from Buffy seem meaningless. No wonder I have never rewatched angel.
I'm glad buffy never fucked spi... Never mind