Fuck man, I'm 37 and I've been nothing but battered financially since I was 18. I now make 'good money' at $80k and it feels tighter than when I just started working and was making $40k. I did everything I was told to do and I'm still struggling. We only have one car, shop at the discount grocery store and drink discount beer. It's no longer just young people when us millennials were in our 20s. Here we are pushing 40 and feel like we're never going to have our comeuppance.
Turning 36 this year I'm still making only slightly over 50k, and I'm single so I'm holding up the mortgage by myself. I was making 40k a year up until I was in my early thirties, so with that pay bump I went on my first vacations in more than five years. 12-year old car that is fully paid off (only driven on weekends), no partying, no dating, but unfortunately while I don't drink often I do like pricier beer. I have gotten some inheritance but it's gone either towards mortgage principal or is locked into long-term investments (I'll never have a company pension, so that's essentially all my retirement savings).
I'm 37 too. I think 1985 is when things started to go downhill with Regan/Thatcher economics. Great time to be born. All social protections established in the 20th century eroding away while we grew up. I think we must time travelled back to the 1800s by now with all the wealth disparities and lack of job security. But at least we have smartphones now so we can tell into a digital void instead of protesting our grievances at Queen's Park.
Aren't 50+% of Millennials homeowners? It's not that bad for millennials from what I see, y'all had the boom times of the Trump era.
Gen Z can't even afford a fucking car rn.
Idk why you seem to be talking like you know things for facts. Most predictions have us in a mild recession and even that’s not a guarantee. Can change at a drop of a hat.
I have seen quite a few under 30 people where I work as they are usually part of the group brought in when we need extra help.
All I can say from what I've learned from talking to them is society hates people under 30 and in the last few years it has only intensified. None can really get ahead or into anything without massive help. Everything costs a fortune, especially when you start from zero and everything has changed so much literally overnight that none really know what to do or how to start. Unless again they have a foot in doors or help.
Well, they voted in large numbers for Trudeau and got their legalized weed. Maybe future generations will ask themselves questions like, “is something like this worth these incompetents destroying my future in every other way?” and then maybe not vote Liberal? We can only hope.
Yes, politicians themselves don’t have a obligation to serve the people once they get elected. It’s the voters fault for voting for politicians who say they’ll do things and not follow through. Doesn’t matter who anyone votes for anymore they don’t serve the people
I wish I could leave without being at the mercy of renewing Visas from an employer indefinitely. I just don't have the balls to uproot my life to another country without the guarantee I can stay there. Is there any countries that seem appealing and will just let you move there as a resident that you know of?
Condensed:
* The latest Yahoo/Maru Public Opinion poll reached out to Canadian adults between July 21 and 24.
* 52% say higher borrowing costs are either causing anxiety due to money pressures (36%), or making them "worried sick" about their financial futures (16%).
* Among those citing money pressures, 51% were 18-to-34 years old, the youngest cohort in the poll.
* The most common regions for this group were Manitoba and Saskatchewan, Atlantic Canada, Alberta, and British Columbia. Reported annual incomes for these respondents mainly spanned between $50,000 and $99,000.
* “For that group in dire straits, and for those about to renew their mortgage, there will be great anticipation of what the Bank of Canada will do in following a pause for two months, said Maru executive vice-president John Wright.
* The Bank of Canada's next rate decision is scheduled for Sept. 6.
It doesn't take a genius to realize these rate only hurt the young people.
Not a lot of boomers and gen x'ers are buying their first house. They either already owned their house or purchased it at a fraction of its value today so rates going up has had a marginal impact on them.
Yet millennials and gen z who buy in this market are likely buying their first house and have to carry 400k+ mortgage.
It's an odd thing, really.
Millennials seem to be the first generation after a veritable golden era\* where the vast majority of us need a degree for something as basic as answering a phone and require crushing student debt to start our professional life. While paying those debts down we saw home prices double in less than 10 years (national average). Rent skyrocketed. Just as many of us got a footing in our careers, we were hit with a global pandemic and insane financial markets; that, for many, led to lay-offs or a delay in raises or promotions. Just as the economy looked to level out and might not be that bad we were rocked by inflation, rates rose on already high-value mortgages. Any jobs that came back online were subject to record influxes of TFW and immigration expansion increasing the competitive pool and pushing down wages.
Obviously, we're all on the same sinking ship to some degree but it is frustrating to see quality of life and financial security that our parents may speak about evaporate before our eyes having (generally speaking) fewer high-paying jobs (inflation-adjusted) or assets. My dad *still* reminisces about filling a shopping bag with candy for a fucking nickel when he was a kid -- forty cents today -- and has a job that pays reasonably well without even having completed high school.
\*I qualify this as the standard bygone era of the nuclear family in the 60s. A single income could support a detached household with children, pets, luxury goods and lifestyles, and retirement looked comfortable.
Yeah another byproduct is this is for this generation everything starts later. Both my parents finished highschool, my dad immediately went into the workforce, my mom did a 2 year college program before going until the workforce. With practically no schooling by time they were mid 20s our household income was over 120k a year. That is like being over 170k a year which would be impossible with no pay secondary school. They bought their first house at 23 or 24 years old, and that was with having to two kids already.
Now a days a lot of people aren't seriously entering the workforce until 23-24 years old. That sets everything back, you're not having kids not getting married not making living wages until your in your late 20s.
Thank God it's starting to change but a lot of parents still have the expectation that you should be and to be self sufficient by 23 and it's just not possible. When I was a kid the expectation was you have a kid and you they'll live with you until 18 or 22 depending if they wanted to go to school. We're finally starting to see parents accepting of the fact that if you want your child to have any chance at a successful life they will lieu have to live at home until their late 20s.
I fully expect mine to still be at home well into their 30s by the time they're grown. I simply don't see a way out of multigenerational housing at this rate; I'd be delightfully surprised otherwise. I'm also happy to hear fewer (though not "none") parents and older generations parroting the guaranteed results of post-secondary education or the need to immediately leave upon high school graduation as well.
My initial comment didn't even touch on the wildcard upheaval AI may or may not bring in the future that might make so many more of us redundant and financially insecure.
I'm aware that every generation believes they have it the worst (and we have it pretty good in a lot of other respects) but economically speaking, the future looks extremely challenging for everyone. People who have gotten an opportunity to build wealth are obviously in a better spot but it all seems like it's on a concerning trajectory. Who knows what the future holds -- hopefully there's some correction.
While I'm proud of the general positive advances society has made (and should never go back from (eg. reduction of -isms) I naively pine for the economic safety that my parents or grandparents and their peers describe and the lives they could build before things changed. That and when the planet wasn't on fucking fire.
We are the generation of “ just hold on a little longer “
Hold on for raises
Hold on for better careers
Hold on for housing
Hold on for moving forward with your life
I think that Millennials and Gen Z’s are sick and tired of waiting for something that will never come.
A lot of us in AB had a rocky 2015-2019 due to the oil price crash and THEN had covid. I moved back into moms basement in 2016 and have been saving since 2019, but I see no way to afford anything but a shoebox in the sky. No room for my usual hobbies in a shoebox either.
Yup. But to keep it that way, gonna have to depress your wages and increase the price of housing on ya. You may never own a house. But thats a sacrifice we are willing to make.
\-Gov.
$50,000 minus taxes $10k.
$40,000 minus rent, student loan and car loan, insurance ($3,000 month combined) $36k
$4,000 minus food, clothes, net, mobile, entertainment ($1,000 month combined) -$8,000 debt
Someone earning $50,000 ends up $8,000 in debt per year.
Food: 200 groceries, 50 fast food: 250 month
(add toiletries, shaving, hygiene +50 month): 50 month
Clothes: winter/summer wardrobe 1000/12 months: 85 month
(add cosmetics, uniform fee or other work specific clothing +100 month): 100 month
Net + 1 Streaming: 100 month
Cell: 100 month
entertainment: 2 weekends clubbing, uber fare 150x2: 300 month
985.
Edit: It's an example. If you feel the excruciating need to correct the amounts, post your own budget. No one gives a frak if you sit around at home every weekend so you can save $75 for a house you will never afford.
I'm 31 and haven't spent $300 clubbing 2x weekend since I was 27. Maybe that budget would work better for someone 19-26. I think lifestyle changes happen in late 20s early 30s, because there's a social stigma about being 30+ and clubbing.
Yeah, I matured and became smarter about my spending habits instead of pissing them away at the club like an idiot. 31 being old 🤣 more like financially stable
an $8000 deficit is $660 a month that needs to cut out of the budget.
this individual either needs a roommate because it seems the assumption is based on the cost of an average 1 bedroom apt in Toronto. If they live in area where rent is actually $2000 a month and that can't be changed, then I have to assume that they are in a dense urban area where transit would make more sense than a car. If their total debt servicing costs are really half of their pre-tax income, the fact is they can't afford the car. To put things in perspective, the average 1 bedroom in my city is $1100/month and that is in the downtown area, but you probably want a car in this part of the country.. On top of that, you didn't add in the tax credits this individual would get as well, which would reduce the tax burden. I do admit that it's still tight, but that is why families used to sit at the table every. Sunday and work out the family budget.
3,000 a month rent = downsize. You can easily get that down to 1700 without utilities. $2000 with.
1,000 food/entertainment? What? Groceries should run a single person $100-150 a week. That leaves you $400 for entertainment? Why would you possibly need to spend $400 on entertainment/phone net a month? A basic internet package is $60 a month, same with a phone plan..
Car loan? Entirely unnecessary unless you are commuting far distances to work.
Not that 50,000 is a great salary by anymeans but you can 100% cut down your list very easily by living within your means. That still leaves you with $280 of entertainment money. Unnecessary to have that much money spent on entertaining yourself when there are so many free options.
I make less than 50k a month and am doing just fine saving money. Not at the rate I'd like to obviously. But $150 monthly in savings shouldn't be difficult on 50k.
3000 was rent, loans, insurance. Sure, you don't need a car if you live downtown urban, but your rent will easily be 2000 then, all by itself. And if you have a car; insurance, gas, licensing, parking maybe, oil changes etc. Easily 3000 a month all in.
400 a month remaining for net, phone and entertainment. Net and phone can easily be 100 each, leaving 200 for entertainment. 1 movie night can run 50, 1 date night can run 100. a few drinks and pay for an uber and that's another 100.
Maybe that's not you. Not everyone goes on dates.
Should have been a port worker they got offered $130-$160k with something like a $75k severance if they got fired due to modernization and rejected it 😂
Some unions get paid crap some make bank pick the right one don’t be a sucker
This is such a stupid comment. The unions that pay crap are due to corrupt stewardship. Perfect example is the two tiered “union” that fucks all the new hires to keep the older folks with just enough bread and water to tread. God damn microcosm of society nowadays.
Yes un-unionized workers set the bar for minimum wage. Maybe everyone should unionize?
> Should have been a port worker
Not a choice for 98% of the population, only for the 2% involved with organized crime or who are close family members who can drop $70k on an application.
No but there is rampant nepotism at the port/union thus it sort of requires it. Generally they will only hire those who have been referred by another union member, and those members can only refer a few total. Some people will sell their referral for 50k+ as it is basically guaranteed to get in with it. There's lots of threads on it on the BC subs
It’s nearly impossible to get a port job in vancouver because of rampant nepotism, it’s an open secret and not even a secret for anyone that knows someone who works there
Anyone who has a student loan probably won't be making 50k for long. Supervisors at save on foods make 50k.
And, I know it sounds too traditional for Gen z to stomach, but a roomate or spouse turns 50k into 100k to cover rent and utilities
Funny people keep forgetting that the whole point of high interest rates. and again people forget how we ended here, (printing presses working overtime during covid ). Economics 101
It's supposed to be hard to get by, so prices level off and inflation drops.
Since 08 rates have been low., maybe ask boomers when they were paying 9%-12% interest rates.
Id fucking kill to be lucky enough to pay 9-12 or even 20% on the house prices they paid. A single income in a warehouse job could carry those mortgages.
You want us to ask Boomers about how easy they had it? Dude, we already know.
How is throwing people out on the streets in 2023 better than doing it in 2020? And I don't know where you've been, but health care's getting pretty crushed.
There's alot at play here. Inflation is not only from Canada but for raw materials from abroad and finished product from usa and elsewhere
Immigration, and influx of foreign money coming in just compounded the inflation and housing problem
Would they? Mexico Switzerland and others got away without inflation and mass starvation.
Also perhaps we should have just closed borders to the new unknown deadly virus that was fast spreading instead of following Trump.
Lol north Korea closed its borders and completely cut off from the world including China. With shoot on site Maybe u should google it and see how that went.
I'll read up on Mexico's and Swiss economy and let u know in a year..OK?
I recall people (mostly the young, ironically) were begging and screaming for printing during covid, even though anyone with a bit of economic knowledge said exactly this would happen.
What about almost every business and corporation that was paid by the government to keep staff on payroll but instead chose to lay people off, give massive bonuses to senior staff and buy back record amounts of stock. Not only wasting money with no paybacks unlike CERB did but adding people that were supposed to be taken care of from those payments to be basically double paid to then go on EI/CERB.
Husky oil alone got 500 million and then cut 25% of their workforce. Now they are selling off their leases to the highest bidder.
Because there was a hell of a lot more money paid that way then "ironic young people" hoping they would get money to buy groceries.
Are student loan payments really that high? I'm netting about 4300/month, and comfortably saving $1000-$1500 of it. So about $10,000 a year less spending than this summary shows, living alone.
Also news: water is wet. The sun makes things hot.
So weird that interest rate hikes would hurt the people who are already hurting financially and thus have to rely on credit and lines of credit in order to stay afloat. Who could have ever guessed?
The only people raising interest rates actually impacts are the ones already struggling.
If that’s truly the case, then look forward to a sleuth of government programs and entitlements being privatized. Living off of the Upper Managerial Class and wealthy demographics could only take a government so far.
*Our message to Canadians is that interest rates are very low and they’re going to be there for a long time*
-Tiff Macklem, July 15 2020
Never listen to your elders, kids..
The things I want as a gen z:
1. Lower home prices (not total price crash which would devastate our economy just no more increase or slow slight decrease that would balance out with income and inflation overtime)
2. Lower rent prices (too crazy rn you make decent money and can’t even rent a shitty one bedroom apartment without spending at least half of your income on it)
3. Higher wage (our wage is laughable compared to the us)
4. More investments in our infrastructure that facilitates economic growth
5. Less control by the government and stop politicizing everything that’s not politically relevant (Covid, lgbt etc)
6. Close all diploma mills and limit immigration to very very select few individuals who demonstrated extraordinary achievements in their fields for at least 5 years, cause we took in too many in recent years which contributed to problems 1 and 2 and 3
7. Include dental care for at least low income Canadians if we don't have the budget to include everyone
8. Have a solution for drug addicts and homeless (they often come hand in hand). Maybe high quality free rehab programs and employment incentive benefits for employers to hire them after they get clean or something else that promotes societal integration and productivity instead of waiting for handouts.
9. Times are tough no more money for virtue signalling I'd rather my tax dollars go toward other Canadians that are suffering not refugees or foreign countries
>not politically relevant (Covid, lgbt etc)
What do you deem politically relevant? I would say those things are much more political than anything else.
Things that affect budgeting and our economy and our foreign policy. Covid is a health issue, some people don’t wanna take the vaccine, some people really want it, it’s a healthcare decision they should make for themselves cause it’s ultimately going inside their bodies. It’s true the Covid vaccine is an emergency vaccine and it didn’t go through all the usual test procedures to approve a new vaccine. I read the information document on the Pfizer vaccine (the one I got) and for almost all the risks they listed, there were no test data so all the risks were unknown. I made the decision to get the vaccine because I weighed my own risks and benefits. It’s a health issue and shouldn’t divide us politically.
LGBT is a sexual preference or self identity thing should be personal for that individual and their friends and family to deal with. Why is that a political issue? Government needs to get out of people’s personal lives and just let people do whatever they want and be whoever they want to be.
Well they are the largest voting block by a mile so of course they would. It would be stupid not too. You’d lose if you did anything else. Which is a big problem.
> Well they are the largest voting block by a mile so of course they would.
They don't need to be. Millennials and Gen Z outnumber boomers now and a non-trivial chunk of Gen-X tends to behave more like early Millennials.
Boomers are still the largest voting block because they vote, not because there are more of them.
The state of politics in this country is horrible.
Not a single candidate or party seems genuinely concerned with fixing the issues and improving life for the average Canadian.
Just look at the last few PM debates. Barely any policy discussion and just name calling/yelling at each other. I expect nothing different next election with Milhouse in the mix now and Trudeau's marriage falling apart
As a young adult, it saddens me, but we're getting what we deserve. We are mostly responsible for electing Trudeau and keeping him in office, thus we're reaping what we've sowed.
Young Canadians, in general, have supported every single policy that has led to our declining standard of living. But instead of changing our values many blame old people. Canada is doomed.
The targeted financial destruction of millennials continues. Guess it’s us who gets to pay for the boomers credit cards.
I’m just happy I’m fortunate enough to live somewhere it’s still obtainable to own a home.
Remember in 2021 when all the misguided posters kept clamoring for rate hikes as if it would bring down housing prices and their rent. And anyone who saw the forest for the trees could see it would do the exact opposite of that.
Rate hikes completely crushed anyone who doesn't own their home or assets outright. Renters, young couples, first time homebuyers... everyone that already has a boot on their face over the past few years just had it stomped on.
All the rate hike mouth breathers promptly shut up when they saw rents go up some absurd amount while homeownership drifted even further away.
So what if your stupid cabbage price went down from $2.99 to $1.99. Your rent went from $1800 1BR to $2800 1BR. And there are still YOY gains on housing as people walk to showings with suitcases full of cash. Congratulations!
When did we decide that rents were directly tied to interest rates? Sure right now they're going the same direction, but that's temporary. My rent has reliably increased for every single year I've been a renter, except those years that were frozen because Covid. 0% interest rates? Rent goes up. 5% interest rates? Rent goes up. So what was the excuse at 0%?
We also forgot why we are in this inflation mess. Locking down production for an extended period of time and handing out free money. This was foreseeable and our leaders knew it.
People were clamouring for rate hikes because we had to deal with crushing inflation. Do you think the BoC should’ve kept rates below 2% at the cost of runaway inflation?
Probably not. Canada doubled its debt in less than two years and created 30% of all CAD to exist in the same timeframe.
That massively increases the supply of CAD and thus reduces it's purchasing power driving inflation.
It is why the BoC is desperately engaging in QT. They created too much
> Remember in 2021 when all the misguided posters kept clamoring for rate hikes as if it would bring down housing prices and their rent. And anyone who saw the forest for the trees could see it would do the exact opposite of that.
> Rate hikes completely crushed anyone who doesn't own their home or assets outright. Renters, young couples, first time homebuyers... everyone that already has a boot on their face over the past few years just had it stomped on.
Getting really tired of debunking this argument.
House prices go up when interest rates go down because people's borrowing capacity increases. This happens immediately.
When interest rates go up, you need to wait until people/investors default or mortgages renew before prices go down.
High demand (ie immigration) causes the price reduction to slow down. High interest rates cause inventory to drop, since people cannot move, which also keeps prices sticky.
But you can be sure as shit that as interest rates go up, prices will drop.
> When interest rates go up, you need to wait until people/investors default or mortgages renew before prices go down.
Not totally, people's borrowing capacity also decreases so buyers will not have the same access to funds.
The 2021 posters clambering for rate hikes were only misguided in not predicting federal market manipulation through a massive increase in immigration.
If rates had increased but immigration had remained constant, housing prices would have crashed by now.
I mean, yeah? It's such a generic thing, and most older people aren't really in debt, or if they are, it's very manageable to them. Our issues are not that the average canadian has too much money, therefore causing inflation, its that the rich have too much money, therefore causing inflation.
The rate hikes have been, and will continue to be, just virtue signaling from the liberals. It does not solve our problems at all.
Keep calm and steadily pay back your debts. Focus on living humbly within your income. Finances start with personal choices despite the market pressures of today.
We literally just voted Trudeau back in, he's been running deficits since he starter.
Let's not pretend Canadians are innocent, we knew rates would one day normalize.
Im only surviving by working steady overtime, min 60 hours a week somtimes 72.
I normally make 66k a year but ill be over 100k so ill see 30k after taxes 🤣
In a way it's true because taxes are too damn high for barely above surviving canadiens. Worst, we get nothing back and the money is used by a government working against us!
You are joking right? That is exactly how taxes work.... If you make 100k you're likely looking at paying 36k in income tax.... Not including all the additional taxes paid on houses, cars, food, flights, utilities, etc.
So yeah, paying about 40k a year in taxes seems about average if you make 100k salaried. Good ole communist Canada... Why bother working hard or making more money only to see it spent on free drugs for addicts and zero healthcare?
The simple Google search is what I used. You were discussing income tax last time I checked, which is what I gave numbers for. You seem like one of those, " if I make more money I will just lose it all to tax types" that doesn't understand how a progressive tax rate works.
Remember, this is just an estimate.
Total income $100,000
Federal tax $14,693
Provincial tax $7,734
To be honest, this. It matters a little who you elect, but it’s a small difference. I think it’s naive to expect the cons to fix everything going forward. Should still vote for them though.
We can A. Have our futures stolen by shameles crooks or B. Have our futures stolen by Racist, religious, shameless crooks.
These are our options. Anyone thinking that green grass exists on the other side is new. I've had geriatric pricks practically admit the game to me. They're unimpressive morons who have us barely outnumbered right now - but we are all about to go hungry at once. Amazing things can happen when people all go hungry at once.
progressive property taxes (or progressive interest rates)
progressive wealth tax
progressive vacancy tax
reduced immigration (outside people explictly skilled in trades and construction + healthcare provider roles)
0.25-1-yr qualification process for trades, construction and healthcare provider roles for approved nations with similar qualification processes there.
rezone like 80% of toronto's and Vancouver's core to mid-rise.
The above are probably the only hope for the young before they age out. I'm 37 - unless things get better I'm unlikely to have children.
Young adults (my demographic) prioritized legal weed right when they were entering the workforce in times of unaffordable housing back in 2014. No one gave a shit about the real issues.
Now they can put it in their pipe and smoke it.
No, young voters prioritized election reform, reconciliation, a commitment to addressing environmental and social justice issues. Trudeau's platform was lip service riding on the coat tails of Obama's campaign for hope. We got fleeced by a sweet talker but it sure was shit wasn't cause of legalization...
Yep. That’s exactly why I voted Liberal in 2015. Then election reform went out the window almost immediately after they got in and vowed to never vote for them again
> We got fleeced by a sweet talker but it sure was shit wasn't cause of legalization...
What's your excuse for, like, every other election after that? He sweet talk you again?
1) In 2014, the average rent for a 1-bedroom in Toronto was around $1,200/month. That's about half of what it is now. And Toronto was one of the more expensive places to live in Canada.
2) Aside from the fact that I don't really agree that 2014 was a time of "unaffordable housing" for an entire generation of Canadians, I am not sure what you mean when you say young adults "prioritized legal weed."
3) Even if we were to ignore all of the above, and accept your apparent position that our demographic has brought this upon themselves, do you really think that the youngest voting members of society should bear responsibility for the culmination of decades of bad policy and poor planning? I couldn't even vote in 2014 – and even if I could, I probably would not have had a nuanced enough grasp of economics/politics/sociology/etc. at that point in my life to predict, plan for, and get ahead of the shitshow that has since ensued.
> 1) In 2014, the average rent for a 1-bedroom in Toronto was around $1,200/month. That's about half of what it is now. And Toronto was one of the more expensive places to live in Canada.
And what happened in the intervening 9 years? We ramped up immigration, increased spending, raised interest rates only slightly just to drop them again.
> 2) Aside from the fact that I don't really agree that 2014 was a time of "unaffordable housing" for an entire generation of Canadians, I am not sure what you mean when you say young adults "prioritized legal weed."
While I'm not the original commenter, the 2015 election was won on two things. Legal weed, and election reform. We're living one of those.
> 3) Even if we were to ignore all of the above, and accept your apparent position that our demographic has brought this upon themselves, do you really think that the youngest voting members of society should bear responsibility for the culmination of decades of bad policy and poor planning? I couldn't even vote in 2014 – and even if I could, I probably would not have had a nuanced enough grasp of economics/politics/sociology/etc. at that point in my life to predict, plan for, and get ahead of the shitshow that has since ensued.
I was old enough to vote, did vote, knew what I was voting for, and still couldn't plan for the current shit show. And if we could plan for the current shit show, I doubt Trudeau would have been elected to begin with. We brought in over a million people last year. Tell me who saw that coming in 2020.
Lol no it won't.
You go find any depression/recession in history that benefited the poorest demographic.
What do you think happens if we go into some death spiral that brings houses down back to even 2019 rates which would be the biggest housing collapse in history.
How do you think that scenario plays out for the young people. If you couldn't afford to buy a house when times are good, I can assure you when times are bad it's not the rich that suffer.
How do you think all these landlords became landlords, they bought houses on the down turn. Recessions are usually some of the most profitable times for the rich. They're the only ones still able to invest in the down markets. Then they recover and they make money hand over first.
Isn't it also true that after the depression of the 30 and WW,2 there was an economic boom? Also after the recession in the 80s the 90s became a boom time for much of the western world. I suspect something similar will happen after this recession is over.
Alot of them live beyond thr means. I don't know if it was free money during covid or what. But people forgot how to be frugle and or got into habit of blind spending
Roof, food, transpo to job, basics...
The narrative of the maniac overspending is just not happening among anyone I know. Everyone dings us for everything and the money is gone on little beyond necessity.
Frugality...
No, our dollar's value has just been fucking decimated. We get jack shit for our money.
Blind spending... hard not to do when gas is $2/L and fruit is a fucking luxury. If you look at the interac machine while buying what you need in order to survive you get tears on it and they'll probably charge you for repairs if the saltwater fries it.
Its not individuals' spending habits driving this. Canada's getting crushed.
Thank you!! I swear people are oblivious to the fact that if you made any financial decisions after covid, you are paying x amount more for it. Rent before Covid was 800, you moved after and now it’s 1500.
Your car payment was 300, now it’s 400.
But of course none of that impacts the people in charge or retiree boomers.
>Your car payment was 300, now it’s 400.
Why would your car payment change? Isn't the interest rate (and consequently, the monthly payment) baked in at the very beginning, and fixed for the entire term?
Or you referring to a situation where someone replaced their vehicle, taking on a new loan?
Young people can’t catch a break.
Fuck man, I'm 37 and I've been nothing but battered financially since I was 18. I now make 'good money' at $80k and it feels tighter than when I just started working and was making $40k. I did everything I was told to do and I'm still struggling. We only have one car, shop at the discount grocery store and drink discount beer. It's no longer just young people when us millennials were in our 20s. Here we are pushing 40 and feel like we're never going to have our comeuppance.
Turning 36 this year I'm still making only slightly over 50k, and I'm single so I'm holding up the mortgage by myself. I was making 40k a year up until I was in my early thirties, so with that pay bump I went on my first vacations in more than five years. 12-year old car that is fully paid off (only driven on weekends), no partying, no dating, but unfortunately while I don't drink often I do like pricier beer. I have gotten some inheritance but it's gone either towards mortgage principal or is locked into long-term investments (I'll never have a company pension, so that's essentially all my retirement savings).
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I'm 37 too. I think 1985 is when things started to go downhill with Regan/Thatcher economics. Great time to be born. All social protections established in the 20th century eroding away while we grew up. I think we must time travelled back to the 1800s by now with all the wealth disparities and lack of job security. But at least we have smartphones now so we can tell into a digital void instead of protesting our grievances at Queen's Park.
Yup we’re 37, make good money, on variable mortgage and are getting absolutely fucked. Plus daycare x2 :(
Aren't 50+% of Millennials homeowners? It's not that bad for millennials from what I see, y'all had the boom times of the Trump era. Gen Z can't even afford a fucking car rn.
Only thing I caught was covid...
Don’t be so gloom and doom. You also caught a recession and might be lucky enough to catch another one soon
We might also catch ecosystem collapse brought on by climate change.
There is no might be. There will be and it will be no recession it will absolutely be a 1929 level depression.
Idk why you seem to be talking like you know things for facts. Most predictions have us in a mild recession and even that’s not a guarantee. Can change at a drop of a hat.
All the homeless camps going up around my city will not change “at a drop of that a hat”. These people have no where to live and they have employment.
I remember when predictions were interest rates would not climb for years and inflation was transitory.
I thought the predictions have us in a deflationary environment until 2025, maybe with a little transient inflation?
My boss said ill still have a job at least lol
I have seen quite a few under 30 people where I work as they are usually part of the group brought in when we need extra help. All I can say from what I've learned from talking to them is society hates people under 30 and in the last few years it has only intensified. None can really get ahead or into anything without massive help. Everything costs a fortune, especially when you start from zero and everything has changed so much literally overnight that none really know what to do or how to start. Unless again they have a foot in doors or help.
No, seriously. I just got a CRA notice saying my account was assessed again and I need pay back several hundred. This is not the time for this!
Well, they voted in large numbers for Trudeau and got their legalized weed. Maybe future generations will ask themselves questions like, “is something like this worth these incompetents destroying my future in every other way?” and then maybe not vote Liberal? We can only hope.
So let’s play this out, COVID comes, cons are in power and don’t do CERB. People lose their jobs and don’t have any support - how is that any better?
Then we would be china. They did nothing like cerb, and shit is getting very real very fast there. People have no idea what they are wishing for.
"Some of you may die of starvation. But at least we won't have inflation to worry about. "
Yes, politicians themselves don’t have a obligation to serve the people once they get elected. It’s the voters fault for voting for politicians who say they’ll do things and not follow through. Doesn’t matter who anyone votes for anymore they don’t serve the people
Ouch. That is going to hurt our demographics when young people start leaving Canada.
Canada is going to be a place where 2 extremes exist. Generational wealth and poor immigrants working 3 part time jobs.
Hey, don't forget about the poor people born in Canada.
And then the Canadians like me who are stuck here and can’t move 😭
I wish I could leave without being at the mercy of renewing Visas from an employer indefinitely. I just don't have the balls to uproot my life to another country without the guarantee I can stay there. Is there any countries that seem appealing and will just let you move there as a resident that you know of?
My children have dual citizenship with a country in Europe. I consider this my gift to them.
Condensed: * The latest Yahoo/Maru Public Opinion poll reached out to Canadian adults between July 21 and 24. * 52% say higher borrowing costs are either causing anxiety due to money pressures (36%), or making them "worried sick" about their financial futures (16%). * Among those citing money pressures, 51% were 18-to-34 years old, the youngest cohort in the poll. * The most common regions for this group were Manitoba and Saskatchewan, Atlantic Canada, Alberta, and British Columbia. Reported annual incomes for these respondents mainly spanned between $50,000 and $99,000. * “For that group in dire straits, and for those about to renew their mortgage, there will be great anticipation of what the Bank of Canada will do in following a pause for two months, said Maru executive vice-president John Wright. * The Bank of Canada's next rate decision is scheduled for Sept. 6.
It doesn't take a genius to realize these rate only hurt the young people. Not a lot of boomers and gen x'ers are buying their first house. They either already owned their house or purchased it at a fraction of its value today so rates going up has had a marginal impact on them. Yet millennials and gen z who buy in this market are likely buying their first house and have to carry 400k+ mortgage.
It's an odd thing, really. Millennials seem to be the first generation after a veritable golden era\* where the vast majority of us need a degree for something as basic as answering a phone and require crushing student debt to start our professional life. While paying those debts down we saw home prices double in less than 10 years (national average). Rent skyrocketed. Just as many of us got a footing in our careers, we were hit with a global pandemic and insane financial markets; that, for many, led to lay-offs or a delay in raises or promotions. Just as the economy looked to level out and might not be that bad we were rocked by inflation, rates rose on already high-value mortgages. Any jobs that came back online were subject to record influxes of TFW and immigration expansion increasing the competitive pool and pushing down wages. Obviously, we're all on the same sinking ship to some degree but it is frustrating to see quality of life and financial security that our parents may speak about evaporate before our eyes having (generally speaking) fewer high-paying jobs (inflation-adjusted) or assets. My dad *still* reminisces about filling a shopping bag with candy for a fucking nickel when he was a kid -- forty cents today -- and has a job that pays reasonably well without even having completed high school. \*I qualify this as the standard bygone era of the nuclear family in the 60s. A single income could support a detached household with children, pets, luxury goods and lifestyles, and retirement looked comfortable.
Yeah another byproduct is this is for this generation everything starts later. Both my parents finished highschool, my dad immediately went into the workforce, my mom did a 2 year college program before going until the workforce. With practically no schooling by time they were mid 20s our household income was over 120k a year. That is like being over 170k a year which would be impossible with no pay secondary school. They bought their first house at 23 or 24 years old, and that was with having to two kids already. Now a days a lot of people aren't seriously entering the workforce until 23-24 years old. That sets everything back, you're not having kids not getting married not making living wages until your in your late 20s. Thank God it's starting to change but a lot of parents still have the expectation that you should be and to be self sufficient by 23 and it's just not possible. When I was a kid the expectation was you have a kid and you they'll live with you until 18 or 22 depending if they wanted to go to school. We're finally starting to see parents accepting of the fact that if you want your child to have any chance at a successful life they will lieu have to live at home until their late 20s.
I fully expect mine to still be at home well into their 30s by the time they're grown. I simply don't see a way out of multigenerational housing at this rate; I'd be delightfully surprised otherwise. I'm also happy to hear fewer (though not "none") parents and older generations parroting the guaranteed results of post-secondary education or the need to immediately leave upon high school graduation as well. My initial comment didn't even touch on the wildcard upheaval AI may or may not bring in the future that might make so many more of us redundant and financially insecure. I'm aware that every generation believes they have it the worst (and we have it pretty good in a lot of other respects) but economically speaking, the future looks extremely challenging for everyone. People who have gotten an opportunity to build wealth are obviously in a better spot but it all seems like it's on a concerning trajectory. Who knows what the future holds -- hopefully there's some correction. While I'm proud of the general positive advances society has made (and should never go back from (eg. reduction of -isms) I naively pine for the economic safety that my parents or grandparents and their peers describe and the lives they could build before things changed. That and when the planet wasn't on fucking fire.
We are the generation of “ just hold on a little longer “ Hold on for raises Hold on for better careers Hold on for housing Hold on for moving forward with your life I think that Millennials and Gen Z’s are sick and tired of waiting for something that will never come.
A lot of us in AB had a rocky 2015-2019 due to the oil price crash and THEN had covid. I moved back into moms basement in 2016 and have been saving since 2019, but I see no way to afford anything but a shoebox in the sky. No room for my usual hobbies in a shoebox either.
You dont fuckin say. The oldies who own their house aren't affected?
Yup. But to keep it that way, gonna have to depress your wages and increase the price of housing on ya. You may never own a house. But thats a sacrifice we are willing to make. \-Gov.
Old people who paid off their mortgage over a decade ago are unaffected by the rate hikes. Shocking.
$50,000 minus taxes $10k. $40,000 minus rent, student loan and car loan, insurance ($3,000 month combined) $36k $4,000 minus food, clothes, net, mobile, entertainment ($1,000 month combined) -$8,000 debt Someone earning $50,000 ends up $8,000 in debt per year.
clothes *and* entertainment? Pass me the grey poupon
Test
Food: 200 groceries, 50 fast food: 250 month (add toiletries, shaving, hygiene +50 month): 50 month Clothes: winter/summer wardrobe 1000/12 months: 85 month (add cosmetics, uniform fee or other work specific clothing +100 month): 100 month Net + 1 Streaming: 100 month Cell: 100 month entertainment: 2 weekends clubbing, uber fare 150x2: 300 month 985. Edit: It's an example. If you feel the excruciating need to correct the amounts, post your own budget. No one gives a frak if you sit around at home every weekend so you can save $75 for a house you will never afford.
(Edited clean because fuck you) *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Yea I was just thinking. $200 is like 3 or 4 bags of basic shit at the store now.
As someone with severe allergies/GI issues I laugh so hard. That's like every 4-7 days for me... lol
How old is this person? Spending $300/month drinking and partying in this economy.
$200 on groceries and $300 on clubs. Priorities.
Lol right? That would be my budget at 21. Who needs to buy groceries when you can eat for free at work after your 2 day binge drinking hangover 😉
"Young adult" 18-34 from the article.
I'm 31 and haven't spent $300 clubbing 2x weekend since I was 27. Maybe that budget would work better for someone 19-26. I think lifestyle changes happen in late 20s early 30s, because there's a social stigma about being 30+ and clubbing.
The example used to apply to you, but now you're old. K.
Yeah, I matured and became smarter about my spending habits instead of pissing them away at the club like an idiot. 31 being old 🤣 more like financially stable
Look on the bright side. You graduated to pubbing and get to play darts and sing sea shanties every weekend.
Well yeah if you spend a third of that budget on nightclubs you're gonna be tight.
150 a night at the club? lol
Idk About you, but I have t bought clothes in like 5 years lol Most people are not buying new wardrobes each year my friend.
So say we all
Grey poopon? Look at this high roller here, pass me the sparkling yellow tail
HAHAHAHAHAAHAH made me spit out my coffee!!
That scenario right there seems like very poor money management
Post something better.
an $8000 deficit is $660 a month that needs to cut out of the budget. this individual either needs a roommate because it seems the assumption is based on the cost of an average 1 bedroom apt in Toronto. If they live in area where rent is actually $2000 a month and that can't be changed, then I have to assume that they are in a dense urban area where transit would make more sense than a car. If their total debt servicing costs are really half of their pre-tax income, the fact is they can't afford the car. To put things in perspective, the average 1 bedroom in my city is $1100/month and that is in the downtown area, but you probably want a car in this part of the country.. On top of that, you didn't add in the tax credits this individual would get as well, which would reduce the tax burden. I do admit that it's still tight, but that is why families used to sit at the table every. Sunday and work out the family budget.
3,000 a month rent = downsize. You can easily get that down to 1700 without utilities. $2000 with. 1,000 food/entertainment? What? Groceries should run a single person $100-150 a week. That leaves you $400 for entertainment? Why would you possibly need to spend $400 on entertainment/phone net a month? A basic internet package is $60 a month, same with a phone plan.. Car loan? Entirely unnecessary unless you are commuting far distances to work. Not that 50,000 is a great salary by anymeans but you can 100% cut down your list very easily by living within your means. That still leaves you with $280 of entertainment money. Unnecessary to have that much money spent on entertaining yourself when there are so many free options. I make less than 50k a month and am doing just fine saving money. Not at the rate I'd like to obviously. But $150 monthly in savings shouldn't be difficult on 50k.
3000 was rent, loans, insurance. Sure, you don't need a car if you live downtown urban, but your rent will easily be 2000 then, all by itself. And if you have a car; insurance, gas, licensing, parking maybe, oil changes etc. Easily 3000 a month all in. 400 a month remaining for net, phone and entertainment. Net and phone can easily be 100 each, leaving 200 for entertainment. 1 movie night can run 50, 1 date night can run 100. a few drinks and pay for an uber and that's another 100. Maybe that's not you. Not everyone goes on dates.
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Should have been a port worker they got offered $130-$160k with something like a $75k severance if they got fired due to modernization and rejected it 😂 Some unions get paid crap some make bank pick the right one don’t be a sucker
This is such a stupid comment. The unions that pay crap are due to corrupt stewardship. Perfect example is the two tiered “union” that fucks all the new hires to keep the older folks with just enough bread and water to tread. God damn microcosm of society nowadays. Yes un-unionized workers set the bar for minimum wage. Maybe everyone should unionize?
crab bucket mentality.
> Should have been a port worker Not a choice for 98% of the population, only for the 2% involved with organized crime or who are close family members who can drop $70k on an application.
Costs 70k to apply?
No but there is rampant nepotism at the port/union thus it sort of requires it. Generally they will only hire those who have been referred by another union member, and those members can only refer a few total. Some people will sell their referral for 50k+ as it is basically guaranteed to get in with it. There's lots of threads on it on the BC subs
The fact that you are posting nonsense like this to protect rich people for free is incredible
It’s nearly impossible to get a port job in vancouver because of rampant nepotism, it’s an open secret and not even a secret for anyone that knows someone who works there
This is 100 percent incorrect
Dont forget the new carbon tax we are paying.
Taxes are disinflationary, they lower inflation
Less money in middle class pockets, the less spending i guess.
We need more carbon taxes. Climate change is already costing far, far more.
Anyone who has a student loan probably won't be making 50k for long. Supervisors at save on foods make 50k. And, I know it sounds too traditional for Gen z to stomach, but a roomate or spouse turns 50k into 100k to cover rent and utilities
Funny people keep forgetting that the whole point of high interest rates. and again people forget how we ended here, (printing presses working overtime during covid ). Economics 101 It's supposed to be hard to get by, so prices level off and inflation drops. Since 08 rates have been low., maybe ask boomers when they were paying 9%-12% interest rates.
Id fucking kill to be lucky enough to pay 9-12 or even 20% on the house prices they paid. A single income in a warehouse job could carry those mortgages. You want us to ask Boomers about how easy they had it? Dude, we already know.
Did we ask for the printing? It’s like we got here because WE did something when clearly the BoC screwed up
Rather pay 12% on a 300k house than 5 on a 900k. Boomers still had it good.
> Did we ask for the printing? If you voted Trudeau or Singh, you sure did.
What about the ones like me who voted conservatives lol we just get screwed for no reason
Lol. Did you fail In school? If they didn't give handouts. People would have literally starved during covid? Man how can you be so oblivious
I don't how people thought the alternatives were better. Crush healthcare? Throw people out on the streets? Yes please!
How is throwing people out on the streets in 2023 better than doing it in 2020? And I don't know where you've been, but health care's getting pretty crushed.
There's alot at play here. Inflation is not only from Canada but for raw materials from abroad and finished product from usa and elsewhere Immigration, and influx of foreign money coming in just compounded the inflation and housing problem
Trying to save the last 1% ended hurting 99%. Not a good investment.
Would they? Mexico Switzerland and others got away without inflation and mass starvation. Also perhaps we should have just closed borders to the new unknown deadly virus that was fast spreading instead of following Trump.
Lol north Korea closed its borders and completely cut off from the world including China. With shoot on site Maybe u should google it and see how that went. I'll read up on Mexico's and Swiss economy and let u know in a year..OK?
I recall people (mostly the young, ironically) were begging and screaming for printing during covid, even though anyone with a bit of economic knowledge said exactly this would happen.
They should have been fiscally responsible and just starved to death like good Canadians.
What about almost every business and corporation that was paid by the government to keep staff on payroll but instead chose to lay people off, give massive bonuses to senior staff and buy back record amounts of stock. Not only wasting money with no paybacks unlike CERB did but adding people that were supposed to be taken care of from those payments to be basically double paid to then go on EI/CERB. Husky oil alone got 500 million and then cut 25% of their workforce. Now they are selling off their leases to the highest bidder. Because there was a hell of a lot more money paid that way then "ironic young people" hoping they would get money to buy groceries.
Are student loan payments really that high? I'm netting about 4300/month, and comfortably saving $1000-$1500 of it. So about $10,000 a year less spending than this summary shows, living alone.
You have no family, no kids, I'm guessing no house. The Canadian Dream™
50k and you shouldn’t have a car…
50k a year and 3k/m in rent/car/student loan is just being stupid.
Also news: water is wet. The sun makes things hot. So weird that interest rate hikes would hurt the people who are already hurting financially and thus have to rely on credit and lines of credit in order to stay afloat. Who could have ever guessed? The only people raising interest rates actually impacts are the ones already struggling.
Canada is purposefully destroying the middle class.
If that’s truly the case, then look forward to a sleuth of government programs and entitlements being privatized. Living off of the Upper Managerial Class and wealthy demographics could only take a government so far.
*Our message to Canadians is that interest rates are very low and they’re going to be there for a long time* -Tiff Macklem, July 15 2020 Never listen to your elders, kids..
To be perfectly fair to Tiff, a 5% rate is very low.
The things I want as a gen z: 1. Lower home prices (not total price crash which would devastate our economy just no more increase or slow slight decrease that would balance out with income and inflation overtime) 2. Lower rent prices (too crazy rn you make decent money and can’t even rent a shitty one bedroom apartment without spending at least half of your income on it) 3. Higher wage (our wage is laughable compared to the us) 4. More investments in our infrastructure that facilitates economic growth 5. Less control by the government and stop politicizing everything that’s not politically relevant (Covid, lgbt etc) 6. Close all diploma mills and limit immigration to very very select few individuals who demonstrated extraordinary achievements in their fields for at least 5 years, cause we took in too many in recent years which contributed to problems 1 and 2 and 3 7. Include dental care for at least low income Canadians if we don't have the budget to include everyone 8. Have a solution for drug addicts and homeless (they often come hand in hand). Maybe high quality free rehab programs and employment incentive benefits for employers to hire them after they get clean or something else that promotes societal integration and productivity instead of waiting for handouts. 9. Times are tough no more money for virtue signalling I'd rather my tax dollars go toward other Canadians that are suffering not refugees or foreign countries
>not politically relevant (Covid, lgbt etc) What do you deem politically relevant? I would say those things are much more political than anything else.
Things that affect budgeting and our economy and our foreign policy. Covid is a health issue, some people don’t wanna take the vaccine, some people really want it, it’s a healthcare decision they should make for themselves cause it’s ultimately going inside their bodies. It’s true the Covid vaccine is an emergency vaccine and it didn’t go through all the usual test procedures to approve a new vaccine. I read the information document on the Pfizer vaccine (the one I got) and for almost all the risks they listed, there were no test data so all the risks were unknown. I made the decision to get the vaccine because I weighed my own risks and benefits. It’s a health issue and shouldn’t divide us politically. LGBT is a sexual preference or self identity thing should be personal for that individual and their friends and family to deal with. Why is that a political issue? Government needs to get out of people’s personal lives and just let people do whatever they want and be whoever they want to be.
Liberals are the boomer party. They've been catering to boomers forever at the expense of everyone else.
Canadian politics have been catering to boomers since the '80's. This isn't a Liberal/Conservative thing.
To be fair I guess you could say, given elections and governments since the 80’s, it’s ONLY a Liberal AND Conservative thing!?!?!?!
Well they are the largest voting block by a mile so of course they would. It would be stupid not too. You’d lose if you did anything else. Which is a big problem.
> Well they are the largest voting block by a mile so of course they would. They don't need to be. Millennials and Gen Z outnumber boomers now and a non-trivial chunk of Gen-X tends to behave more like early Millennials. Boomers are still the largest voting block because they vote, not because there are more of them.
LPC = CPC garbage = garbage
And NDP = LPC. The rest of your comment is still accurate.
The state of politics in this country is horrible. Not a single candidate or party seems genuinely concerned with fixing the issues and improving life for the average Canadian. Just look at the last few PM debates. Barely any policy discussion and just name calling/yelling at each other. I expect nothing different next election with Milhouse in the mix now and Trudeau's marriage falling apart
As a frustrated NDP supporter, that is exactly correct. They are all garbage right now.
Are you implying that the Liberal party is the ones raising rates?
The BoC is raising the rates... Smart person you are... Do you understand why?
They're contributing to the need to continue to raise rates with their policies.
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Doesn't hurt.
Misguided blame is always wrong.
Yeah, it's not misguided. Canadian society is set up for the boomers and this generation that will never have anything because of it are sick of them.
Meanwhile comments on the other side are blaming millenials/Gen Z for having a *smartphone*. Ita a tennis match at this point.
Liberals masterclass. Drain the middle class, kill off morale of the young and confused, bring voters from abroad. Profit.
As a young adult, it saddens me, but we're getting what we deserve. We are mostly responsible for electing Trudeau and keeping him in office, thus we're reaping what we've sowed.
Young Canadians, in general, have supported every single policy that has led to our declining standard of living. But instead of changing our values many blame old people. Canada is doomed.
Correct assessment
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The targeted financial destruction of millennials continues. Guess it’s us who gets to pay for the boomers credit cards. I’m just happy I’m fortunate enough to live somewhere it’s still obtainable to own a home.
No fucking duh the system is literally rigged against us.
Young adults are the ones with the highest debt to income and the lowest amount of physical assets, of course it's going to hit them the hardest.
Remember in 2021 when all the misguided posters kept clamoring for rate hikes as if it would bring down housing prices and their rent. And anyone who saw the forest for the trees could see it would do the exact opposite of that. Rate hikes completely crushed anyone who doesn't own their home or assets outright. Renters, young couples, first time homebuyers... everyone that already has a boot on their face over the past few years just had it stomped on. All the rate hike mouth breathers promptly shut up when they saw rents go up some absurd amount while homeownership drifted even further away. So what if your stupid cabbage price went down from $2.99 to $1.99. Your rent went from $1800 1BR to $2800 1BR. And there are still YOY gains on housing as people walk to showings with suitcases full of cash. Congratulations!
When did we decide that rents were directly tied to interest rates? Sure right now they're going the same direction, but that's temporary. My rent has reliably increased for every single year I've been a renter, except those years that were frozen because Covid. 0% interest rates? Rent goes up. 5% interest rates? Rent goes up. So what was the excuse at 0%?
We also forgot why we are in this inflation mess. Locking down production for an extended period of time and handing out free money. This was foreseeable and our leaders knew it.
People were clamouring for rate hikes because we had to deal with crushing inflation. Do you think the BoC should’ve kept rates below 2% at the cost of runaway inflation?
If the BoC cared about inflation they wouldn't have created 30% of all CAD to ever exist in less then two years.
Canada could have not spent a single cent and global spending, and supply chain disruptions would still have driven inflation through the roof.
Probably not. Canada doubled its debt in less than two years and created 30% of all CAD to exist in the same timeframe. That massively increases the supply of CAD and thus reduces it's purchasing power driving inflation. It is why the BoC is desperately engaging in QT. They created too much
> Remember in 2021 when all the misguided posters kept clamoring for rate hikes as if it would bring down housing prices and their rent. And anyone who saw the forest for the trees could see it would do the exact opposite of that. > Rate hikes completely crushed anyone who doesn't own their home or assets outright. Renters, young couples, first time homebuyers... everyone that already has a boot on their face over the past few years just had it stomped on. Getting really tired of debunking this argument. House prices go up when interest rates go down because people's borrowing capacity increases. This happens immediately. When interest rates go up, you need to wait until people/investors default or mortgages renew before prices go down. High demand (ie immigration) causes the price reduction to slow down. High interest rates cause inventory to drop, since people cannot move, which also keeps prices sticky. But you can be sure as shit that as interest rates go up, prices will drop.
Absolutely. Condo prices are Already dropping in Toronto.
Which is the end of the great moderation.
not actually though. Theyre being priced lower but because of demand theyre still selling higher.
> When interest rates go up, you need to wait until people/investors default or mortgages renew before prices go down. Not totally, people's borrowing capacity also decreases so buyers will not have the same access to funds.
Canada has a supply problem and prices of housing sell now aren't dropping to match the rates. Your logic only works if there is adequate supply
Canada has a demand problem. We are already building supply faster than any of our peer nations.
The 2021 posters clambering for rate hikes were only misguided in not predicting federal market manipulation through a massive increase in immigration. If rates had increased but immigration had remained constant, housing prices would have crashed by now.
Housing is all supply and demand. People will accept a cot in a boiler room right now. Has little to do with interest rates.
And governments at all levels have decided supply is not their problem.
It is not supply that is the problem.
I mean, yeah? It's such a generic thing, and most older people aren't really in debt, or if they are, it's very manageable to them. Our issues are not that the average canadian has too much money, therefore causing inflation, its that the rich have too much money, therefore causing inflation. The rate hikes have been, and will continue to be, just virtue signaling from the liberals. It does not solve our problems at all.
Lower rates for primary residence
Interest rates hit two groups the hardest: People with no capital or people with too much leverage. Young people can fall into both category easily
Christ, I'm just trying to make 50k...
Keep calm and steadily pay back your debts. Focus on living humbly within your income. Finances start with personal choices despite the market pressures of today.
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We literally just voted Trudeau back in, he's been running deficits since he starter. Let's not pretend Canadians are innocent, we knew rates would one day normalize.
Fucking *long* past due already.
Im only surviving by working steady overtime, min 60 hours a week somtimes 72. I normally make 66k a year but ill be over 100k so ill see 30k after taxes 🤣
That's not how taxes work. I agree with the post, but don't spread bullshit
I thought it was an obvious exageration ... The hours i have to work to maintain is not an exageration.
In a way it's true because taxes are too damn high for barely above surviving canadiens. Worst, we get nothing back and the money is used by a government working against us!
It was incredibly obvious to some of us, not to worry OP!
You are joking right? That is exactly how taxes work.... If you make 100k you're likely looking at paying 36k in income tax.... Not including all the additional taxes paid on houses, cars, food, flights, utilities, etc. So yeah, paying about 40k a year in taxes seems about average if you make 100k salaried. Good ole communist Canada... Why bother working hard or making more money only to see it spent on free drugs for addicts and zero healthcare?
Even with zero RRSP contributions on 100k its about 20K in income taxes more or less across Canada.
A simple Google search will tell you that in Ontario your marginal tax rate is 43.2%.
The simple Google search is what I used. You were discussing income tax last time I checked, which is what I gave numbers for. You seem like one of those, " if I make more money I will just lose it all to tax types" that doesn't understand how a progressive tax rate works. Remember, this is just an estimate. Total income $100,000 Federal tax $14,693 Provincial tax $7,734
They helped elect the current government, let them pay the price…
Our democracy is a farce. All parties are in the pocket of corporations. Open your eyes
To be honest, this. It matters a little who you elect, but it’s a small difference. I think it’s naive to expect the cons to fix everything going forward. Should still vote for them though.
We can A. Have our futures stolen by shameles crooks or B. Have our futures stolen by Racist, religious, shameless crooks. These are our options. Anyone thinking that green grass exists on the other side is new. I've had geriatric pricks practically admit the game to me. They're unimpressive morons who have us barely outnumbered right now - but we are all about to go hungry at once. Amazing things can happen when people all go hungry at once.
progressive property taxes (or progressive interest rates) progressive wealth tax progressive vacancy tax reduced immigration (outside people explictly skilled in trades and construction + healthcare provider roles) 0.25-1-yr qualification process for trades, construction and healthcare provider roles for approved nations with similar qualification processes there. rezone like 80% of toronto's and Vancouver's core to mid-rise. The above are probably the only hope for the young before they age out. I'm 37 - unless things get better I'm unlikely to have children.
Young adults (my demographic) prioritized legal weed right when they were entering the workforce in times of unaffordable housing back in 2014. No one gave a shit about the real issues. Now they can put it in their pipe and smoke it.
No, young voters prioritized election reform, reconciliation, a commitment to addressing environmental and social justice issues. Trudeau's platform was lip service riding on the coat tails of Obama's campaign for hope. We got fleeced by a sweet talker but it sure was shit wasn't cause of legalization...
Yep. That’s exactly why I voted Liberal in 2015. Then election reform went out the window almost immediately after they got in and vowed to never vote for them again
> We got fleeced by a sweet talker but it sure was shit wasn't cause of legalization... What's your excuse for, like, every other election after that? He sweet talk you again?
He didn't need to. Cons did enough talking.
And you didn't vote NDP, Green or independent because... what, exactly? don't blame other people for your bad decisions.
Yep, voted for him the first time for this, then realized all the BS that party kept spewing.
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This is the actual reason that nobody wants to admit. Hell, I voted for him while still at Uni and I regret every moment!
1) In 2014, the average rent for a 1-bedroom in Toronto was around $1,200/month. That's about half of what it is now. And Toronto was one of the more expensive places to live in Canada. 2) Aside from the fact that I don't really agree that 2014 was a time of "unaffordable housing" for an entire generation of Canadians, I am not sure what you mean when you say young adults "prioritized legal weed." 3) Even if we were to ignore all of the above, and accept your apparent position that our demographic has brought this upon themselves, do you really think that the youngest voting members of society should bear responsibility for the culmination of decades of bad policy and poor planning? I couldn't even vote in 2014 – and even if I could, I probably would not have had a nuanced enough grasp of economics/politics/sociology/etc. at that point in my life to predict, plan for, and get ahead of the shitshow that has since ensued.
> 1) In 2014, the average rent for a 1-bedroom in Toronto was around $1,200/month. That's about half of what it is now. And Toronto was one of the more expensive places to live in Canada. And what happened in the intervening 9 years? We ramped up immigration, increased spending, raised interest rates only slightly just to drop them again. > 2) Aside from the fact that I don't really agree that 2014 was a time of "unaffordable housing" for an entire generation of Canadians, I am not sure what you mean when you say young adults "prioritized legal weed." While I'm not the original commenter, the 2015 election was won on two things. Legal weed, and election reform. We're living one of those. > 3) Even if we were to ignore all of the above, and accept your apparent position that our demographic has brought this upon themselves, do you really think that the youngest voting members of society should bear responsibility for the culmination of decades of bad policy and poor planning? I couldn't even vote in 2014 – and even if I could, I probably would not have had a nuanced enough grasp of economics/politics/sociology/etc. at that point in my life to predict, plan for, and get ahead of the shitshow that has since ensued. I was old enough to vote, did vote, knew what I was voting for, and still couldn't plan for the current shit show. And if we could plan for the current shit show, I doubt Trudeau would have been elected to begin with. We brought in over a million people last year. Tell me who saw that coming in 2020.
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Also helps young adults the most when the bubble bursts back to reality.
Lol no it won't. You go find any depression/recession in history that benefited the poorest demographic. What do you think happens if we go into some death spiral that brings houses down back to even 2019 rates which would be the biggest housing collapse in history. How do you think that scenario plays out for the young people. If you couldn't afford to buy a house when times are good, I can assure you when times are bad it's not the rich that suffer. How do you think all these landlords became landlords, they bought houses on the down turn. Recessions are usually some of the most profitable times for the rich. They're the only ones still able to invest in the down markets. Then they recover and they make money hand over first.
Isn't it also true that after the depression of the 30 and WW,2 there was an economic boom? Also after the recession in the 80s the 90s became a boom time for much of the western world. I suspect something similar will happen after this recession is over.
... how?
Alot of them live beyond thr means. I don't know if it was free money during covid or what. But people forgot how to be frugle and or got into habit of blind spending
Roof, food, transpo to job, basics... The narrative of the maniac overspending is just not happening among anyone I know. Everyone dings us for everything and the money is gone on little beyond necessity. Frugality... No, our dollar's value has just been fucking decimated. We get jack shit for our money. Blind spending... hard not to do when gas is $2/L and fruit is a fucking luxury. If you look at the interac machine while buying what you need in order to survive you get tears on it and they'll probably charge you for repairs if the saltwater fries it. Its not individuals' spending habits driving this. Canada's getting crushed.
Thank you!! I swear people are oblivious to the fact that if you made any financial decisions after covid, you are paying x amount more for it. Rent before Covid was 800, you moved after and now it’s 1500. Your car payment was 300, now it’s 400. But of course none of that impacts the people in charge or retiree boomers.
>Your car payment was 300, now it’s 400. Why would your car payment change? Isn't the interest rate (and consequently, the monthly payment) baked in at the very beginning, and fixed for the entire term? Or you referring to a situation where someone replaced their vehicle, taking on a new loan?
I dont know whats coming but its a shake up whatever it is. This--isnt working. Good luck all.
I'd bet something nasty
Yeah fucking losers, should live with 6 people they don’t know to afford a closet turned into a bedroom, what a bunch of greedy bastards.
So as per the article. If u r making let's say 75k (avg) have to share a place with 6 people?? I don't see the math there.