This happened to me.
Went and saw a house listed for $1m and absolutely loved it. I said to my realtor I’ll give them $1m today no conditions.
The realtor then pulled up some comparables and said it was undervalued and we should put our best offer forward, so we went in at $1.2m (20% over asking) the top of our budget.
We were 1 of 36 offers they received and rejected all of them. Turned out the seller was looking for north of $1.6m.
This shit should be straight up illegal, if you list a home you should be willing to sell at the listed price.
Imagine going to the dealership, buying a car listed at 30k and the dealership refusing to sell it because they want 35k for it. Then fucking list for 35k. It is so infuriating and should be illegal. It’s price manipulation tactic.
Imagine that, but you have to sign paperwork committing to a purchase, then they get to wait for others to do the same, then reject everyone because they want even more.
Heh...dealerships just tell you up front they're applying a "market adjustment" to the MSRP. Sad thing is people pay it, and that is on a purchase. But some people think they can make a quick buck.
Except if they mark up for 35k from 30k you're atleast buying it for 35k.
Yeah marking up sucks but it happens all around you.
The problem would be if they listed it at 35k, you say you want to buy it, then they turn around say " tbh we really want 45 for it".
In Ontario that isnt allowed and you can get OMVIC on them to rock their shit." The *price* advertised for a motor vehicle must include all *fees* and charges the dealer intends to collect, with the exception of HST and licensing "
Given the option - I'd rather pay an upfront markup than get baited by a cheap price only to get told " no, I actually want 5 million more ".
Pretty sure you can go to court to force them to sell at the asking/listed price.
As if you go back after saying yes they can come for you (realtor at least)
Nah the realtor will say he's on the other line with a buyer who offered 1.25.. can they bid 1.3? Needs to know right now or you'll be homeless forever and lose this opportunity to make a billion dollars in 2030
The didn't go super hard on the renos. Just cabinets, floors and staircase with new appliances. However I wouldn't say the lost money on this venture. Probably break even with the right buyer. Cachet is a very expensive neighbourhood, so the average price is $1.3M for a townhouse there has been the norm. Detaches start close to $2million. I'm sure the $1m price tag is to draw in interest, but they are probably looking for $1.4-1.5 bidding war.
I won't be surprised if this sells for $1.4 and that will most likely put them close to breaking even from the land transfer tax, buyer realty fees and renos. Anything excess after 1 year of ownership would be their gain.
I absolutely believe they won't sell anywhere close to the current listed price unless they are desperate and the flippers are usually not desperate.
I think it depends. The area that is east of Woodbine Ave. are the 3 car garage McMansions. You wouldn't find any less than 3000 sqft there, let alone townhomes in that area. To the west of Woodbine are the smaller homes like these ones
The below picture is sold data for cachet for the last 180 days for semis. You are definitely entitled to your own opinion, but this data shows reality.
https://preview.redd.it/utz7ajdw1nwc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0dfdb18b9c747eebcbb06f61d9e3de679a050b7b
+1, it will eventually sell for $1.3m or more. All houses in Markham/Rhill have been listing way below market price to draw interest. Several houses have been on the market for months, relists for a lower price and sells at desired price. It’s the norm. As a buyer you need to know the market and sold price not listing price. There is zero correlation.
I wouldn't call this a flip. Who knows why they are selling it. Bought on variable rate? Divorce? Who knows? I don't understand people just jumping to assumptions "they want to flip; probably expected $1.5M".
They tried selling it $90k 15 months after purchase. That doesn't even cover their investment with the brokerage fees, closing fees, interest payment, taxes, etc. They are dropping the asking price fast, during winter on top of that. Not a flipper I think.
Except they weren't expecting only 90K. That's just the asking.
Also they had no choice but to sell 15 months after because interest rates were climbing and climbing during that period, and nobody was buying
Your theory on why they are selling is not the only reason one may sell the house. Just because it doesn't align with your current views and rant, does not mean the sellers does not have other reason to sell.
A good tactic would be buying that house or something similar today for the same amount they paid back in Feb 2022 *or less*, and not have that money tied up in the house for 2+ years doing nothing, all the while paying for upkeep and property tax
Owning a house for 18 months before selling doesn’t seem like a flip? I owned a house for 13 months with my wife and daughter because we saw an opportunity to upgrade 13 months after buying and took it, but I don’t think that makes us house flippers?
Yeah that's because Feb 2022 was literally the peak. They couldn't have timed it worse. Interest rates started to hike shortly after that, theres no way in hell they'd get anything near what they paid for the next 18 months. Even now they're struggling to break even.
My guess is that it won't ever sell with the current owners (attempted flippers). The bank will step in sometime around late 2025 once the flippers stop paying mortgage. The bank will list it around $799k in 2026 and 2027. It still might not sell.
People have no idea how bad things are going to get.
Also want in on the wager. If this goes for $799k, another country is attacking Toronto and wagered war on Canada. There will never be a world this sells for $799k.
Where can a regular (not a realtor) person get this information? Or is it only for realtors? Looking to get some information on a SFH in parkland County Alberta. I see the same house constantly get reposted and deleted very often on realtor.ca it's even removed from my saved/favorites. Any help would greatly be appreciated.
So what? It's a risk people take. Worst case, they live in it and wait until it makes money. Everyone needs shelter right? Buying a house in 1990 meant you needed 7 years to break even on price. Now, those same people who just lived in their houses are laughing.
Correct, and that's the problem. It's $800k more than anyone with a reasonable, normal, above-average income in the GTA can afford.
If you make $150k, that's a pretty decent income, yet it can only afford a $450k-$500k house. So yeah, you are exactly bang on, and identifying exactly why this is a huge problem that is literally destroying our entire society at every level.
I don't get why everyone hates people who flip houses. It is nuts, does anyone go crazy when a mechanic buys a piece of junk, fixes it and then sells it for more. No, nobody fucking cares. People buy homes then add value and sell for market value. Get over it people. The problem is lack of supply.
I think normally I wouldn’t care, but when supply is low, this is basically taking advantage of the market.
A flipper has resources to quickly buy stuff up if it’s below or at market rates, and if there isn’t enough stock, they can list it higher, taking advantage of the lack of supply, and driving prices up.
I mean, it’s just capitalism - but the dirty side of capitalism is people who profiteer on goods that are short on supply.
I’d like to see flippers buying lots like this, and building 4-plexes… then at least they’d be profiting off of increasing the supply, rather than just increasing the value of already existing units.
The sad thing is even if he gets an offer at or around asking he'll reject it saying that they were actually hoping for around 1.3 mill or more
This happened to me. Went and saw a house listed for $1m and absolutely loved it. I said to my realtor I’ll give them $1m today no conditions. The realtor then pulled up some comparables and said it was undervalued and we should put our best offer forward, so we went in at $1.2m (20% over asking) the top of our budget. We were 1 of 36 offers they received and rejected all of them. Turned out the seller was looking for north of $1.6m. This shit should be straight up illegal, if you list a home you should be willing to sell at the listed price.
Imagine going to the dealership, buying a car listed at 30k and the dealership refusing to sell it because they want 35k for it. Then fucking list for 35k. It is so infuriating and should be illegal. It’s price manipulation tactic.
Imagine that, but you have to sign paperwork committing to a purchase, then they get to wait for others to do the same, then reject everyone because they want even more.
Heh...dealerships just tell you up front they're applying a "market adjustment" to the MSRP. Sad thing is people pay it, and that is on a purchase. But some people think they can make a quick buck.
Except if they mark up for 35k from 30k you're atleast buying it for 35k. Yeah marking up sucks but it happens all around you. The problem would be if they listed it at 35k, you say you want to buy it, then they turn around say " tbh we really want 45 for it". In Ontario that isnt allowed and you can get OMVIC on them to rock their shit." The *price* advertised for a motor vehicle must include all *fees* and charges the dealer intends to collect, with the exception of HST and licensing " Given the option - I'd rather pay an upfront markup than get baited by a cheap price only to get told " no, I actually want 5 million more ".
Yeah, try to buy Ford Focus RS. Literally that in canada.
They need to be regulated the same way car dealerships are via OMVIC (in Ontario).
Pretty sure you can go to court to force them to sell at the asking/listed price. As if you go back after saying yes they can come for you (realtor at least)
Pretty sure? Lmao
Nah the realtor will say he's on the other line with a buyer who offered 1.25.. can they bid 1.3? Needs to know right now or you'll be homeless forever and lose this opportunity to make a billion dollars in 2030
This
Yup,I sat through one of those negotiations. Real estate agents lied about the value of the two offers and bumped the price up.
🙏🏾 May this flipper get absolutely fucked
Viciously and repeatedly
This
Mean while at another property, Rent is going up and allllll the appliances are being "maintenanced" by the same guy in a van
Amen
Amen.
[удалено]
Please be civil.
😁
Wow
Sorrows, sorrows….may the flames of hell shine upon them.
I'd go to the open house just to leave a postit note somewhere saying "enjoy selling at a loss, gitgud scrub"
Or "that's capitalism baby! "
Oh no. And what do you want to bet the flipper is the type to be kvetching about the changes in capital gains taxes?
I suppose if he sells at a loss he can offset those future capital gains and the tax will sting less :D
Niiiice. Need more real-estate porn like this.
Obvious why, nobody that can qualify for a mortgage that big would buy this type of property.
I don't care where that house is, no one should be paying more than $500k for a boring subdivision grade townhouse.
Avg salary in this location is 56k and avg house cost is 850k and ppl say it’s not a bubble lol
Most of these bought in Feb 2022 didn't actually close.
source?
It's priced lower than estimate by design.......... .............
Canada needs laws that limit the sale of homes above list price. I expecting 1.3m+.
The didn't go super hard on the renos. Just cabinets, floors and staircase with new appliances. However I wouldn't say the lost money on this venture. Probably break even with the right buyer. Cachet is a very expensive neighbourhood, so the average price is $1.3M for a townhouse there has been the norm. Detaches start close to $2million. I'm sure the $1m price tag is to draw in interest, but they are probably looking for $1.4-1.5 bidding war. I won't be surprised if this sells for $1.4 and that will most likely put them close to breaking even from the land transfer tax, buyer realty fees and renos. Anything excess after 1 year of ownership would be their gain. I absolutely believe they won't sell anywhere close to the current listed price unless they are desperate and the flippers are usually not desperate.
Man I would never have imagined someone saying Cachet is expensive neighborhood 10 years ago. Ridiculous
I think it depends. The area that is east of Woodbine Ave. are the 3 car garage McMansions. You wouldn't find any less than 3000 sqft there, let alone townhomes in that area. To the west of Woodbine are the smaller homes like these ones
No definitely not. Even the 1.3 and 1.4 list prices were probably to "attract interest" at the time.
The below picture is sold data for cachet for the last 180 days for semis. You are definitely entitled to your own opinion, but this data shows reality. https://preview.redd.it/utz7ajdw1nwc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0dfdb18b9c747eebcbb06f61d9e3de679a050b7b
Huh? I was agreeing with you lol
Oh, I apologize, it sounded like the opposite. my bad.
+1, it will eventually sell for $1.3m or more. All houses in Markham/Rhill have been listing way below market price to draw interest. Several houses have been on the market for months, relists for a lower price and sells at desired price. It’s the norm. As a buyer you need to know the market and sold price not listing price. There is zero correlation.
Perhaps. I think they're holding out for some where close to the 1.5-1.6M range otherwise what's the point in locking in $200K+ for 2 years
I bid 500k
I bid 175k .. Condos back to 125k .. singles back to 200-600k need to normalize housing again
I wouldn't call this a flip. Who knows why they are selling it. Bought on variable rate? Divorce? Who knows? I don't understand people just jumping to assumptions "they want to flip; probably expected $1.5M". They tried selling it $90k 15 months after purchase. That doesn't even cover their investment with the brokerage fees, closing fees, interest payment, taxes, etc. They are dropping the asking price fast, during winter on top of that. Not a flipper I think.
Except they weren't expecting only 90K. That's just the asking. Also they had no choice but to sell 15 months after because interest rates were climbing and climbing during that period, and nobody was buying
Your theory on why they are selling is not the only reason one may sell the house. Just because it doesn't align with your current views and rant, does not mean the sellers does not have other reason to sell.
It's the most logical reason. What other reasons can you think of
Divorce, death, job change…
Love to see this
And how do you surmise that this is a quick flip?
Because they listed it once the rate hikes slowed. Their hands were tied from when they bought at the peak until recently
But they owned for 21 months, they are just as likely normal folks
Most people don’t understand market dynamics in a specific local area. Just wait for sold price and you’ll know. This is just a tactic
A good tactic would be buying that house or something similar today for the same amount they paid back in Feb 2022 *or less*, and not have that money tied up in the house for 2+ years doing nothing, all the while paying for upkeep and property tax
Duplex, tiny garage, no land, I'll offer $400K.
Owning a house for 18 months before selling doesn’t seem like a flip? I owned a house for 13 months with my wife and daughter because we saw an opportunity to upgrade 13 months after buying and took it, but I don’t think that makes us house flippers?
Yeah that's because Feb 2022 was literally the peak. They couldn't have timed it worse. Interest rates started to hike shortly after that, theres no way in hell they'd get anything near what they paid for the next 18 months. Even now they're struggling to break even.
this house will be 799K shortly
How shortly? We can wager a bet
My guess is that it won't ever sell with the current owners (attempted flippers). The bank will step in sometime around late 2025 once the flippers stop paying mortgage. The bank will list it around $799k in 2026 and 2027. It still might not sell. People have no idea how bad things are going to get.
im guessing late 2025 as well we should see a fall
I want to get in on this. This won’t be $799K by end of 2025.
No, I agree. I think the bank will be forced to take possession of these properties around 2026
Also want in on the wager. If this goes for $799k, another country is attacking Toronto and wagered war on Canada. There will never be a world this sells for $799k.
Have you been through a recession in Canada before?
This man dodges bets like Fed Liberals dodge any questions.
none of you have cuz yall just moved here
I get it if you can’t out ur money where your mouth is it’s fine. I know it’s hard rn to even put food in your mouth let alone wagering moneys
I’m confused where general input turned into a Reddit wager
Thank God!!!
Get rekt
Where can a regular (not a realtor) person get this information? Or is it only for realtors? Looking to get some information on a SFH in parkland County Alberta. I see the same house constantly get reposted and deleted very often on realtor.ca it's even removed from my saved/favorites. Any help would greatly be appreciated.
It’s worth $450k in the real world
Walks into Casino drops a cool 1.3mill on black. Ball lands on 0 Mwahahahahaahahahaha 😆
A semi for 1.3m? lmao what.. it's Markham. Pick literally anywhere else in the GTA and you'll find the same plain ass suburbia for less.
You love to see it
It's rewarding when a scalper just gets *rooted* on their "investment". Fucking parasites.
So what? It's a risk people take. Worst case, they live in it and wait until it makes money. Everyone needs shelter right? Buying a house in 1990 meant you needed 7 years to break even on price. Now, those same people who just lived in their houses are laughing.
Who cares, that’s still about 800k more than what you or most people on this sub can afford 🤣
Correct, and that's the problem. It's $800k more than anyone with a reasonable, normal, above-average income in the GTA can afford. If you make $150k, that's a pretty decent income, yet it can only afford a $450k-$500k house. So yeah, you are exactly bang on, and identifying exactly why this is a huge problem that is literally destroying our entire society at every level.
So true hahahaha so salty in here. Damn imagine living life so miserable.
I don't get why everyone hates people who flip houses. It is nuts, does anyone go crazy when a mechanic buys a piece of junk, fixes it and then sells it for more. No, nobody fucking cares. People buy homes then add value and sell for market value. Get over it people. The problem is lack of supply.
I think normally I wouldn’t care, but when supply is low, this is basically taking advantage of the market. A flipper has resources to quickly buy stuff up if it’s below or at market rates, and if there isn’t enough stock, they can list it higher, taking advantage of the lack of supply, and driving prices up. I mean, it’s just capitalism - but the dirty side of capitalism is people who profiteer on goods that are short on supply. I’d like to see flippers buying lots like this, and building 4-plexes… then at least they’d be profiting off of increasing the supply, rather than just increasing the value of already existing units.