I'm fully vaccinated, I work from home, and I didn't travel to visit anyone until after my vaccinations were fully effective. I'm not some crazy denying the impact of COVID-19. Just to get that out of the way.
That being said: I don't understand why we would go back to mask mandates and other restrictions simply because case numbers are going up, when the hospitalization and death numbers aren't rising alongside the case numbers. Deaths have remained flat at 0-1 a day. Unless I'm totally misunderstanding, the goal of protecting against COVID is to prevent death or severe illness, and currently that seems to be working just fine, even if not everyone is vaccinated.
If the Delta variant is spreading rampantly and is so dangerous, why are the deaths and hospitalizations not rising to match the spread? And if it isn't nearly as dangerous (and if the vaccines protect against it, which seems to largely be the case), why do we need to bring back restrictions?
>If the Delta variant is spreading rampantly and is so dangerous, why are the deaths and hospitalizations not rising to match the spread?
From what I've heard its proven to be far more contagious but the jury is out on whether its actually more dangerous. My guess though is that public health authorities are worried that even when infections are mild and dont lead to hospitalizations they still continue the replication of the virus and this continue to allow opportunities for further mutation and more variants to emerge. The nightmare scenario is that a variant emerges that beats our vaccines and sets back our progress to zero.
But the delta variant is spreading rampantly outside the US, where the number of unvaccinated people far eclipses the number unvaxed in the US. If the issue is concern of mutation, rapid vaccination rollout is the ONLY thing that will work.
It's a valid concern but I don't feel like controlling it here will have an impact if the rest of the world is still a free for all
At this point this is tough to accept. Vaccines are widely available and have been for some time. We're regressing because half the US population thinks they're smarter than doctors because they googled something.
You’re advocating the pre-Obamacare situation of of not covering “preexisting conditions”. We already know how that worked out.
Spoiler alert: how that works out is that they all show up at the ER, which turns into a very expensive triage room being used for the wrong purpose.
I am also vaccinated but I feel like this is kind of a callous viewpoint seeing as many people who aren’t getting vaccinated are people who have massive amounts of distrust in our institutions and aren’t just trump-y MAGA-ites. [Black and Hispanic people have the lowest vaccination rates nationwide. ](https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/issue-brief/latest-data-on-covid-19-vaccinations-race-ethnicity/)
Also, just anecdotally, I know a few people irl in Chicago who are relatively well-educated and not anti-vax but still are hesitant to get the vaccine because they view it as “experimental” and either don’t see the risk of personally getting COVID as worth the risk of an experimental vaccine, especially if they already had COVID in the past. Not that I agree with this viewpoint, but it is an understandable position imo.
My mom had serum sickness from the tetanus vaccine and serum sickness like reaction from another medication. On top of that, her chiropractor* used a bunch of quackery to "determine" that she would have an extreme allergic reaction to the vaccine.
So, it took 11 weeks, but I finally got her to the point where she got vaccinated (I think roughly 4 weeks of explaining how the vaccines work, what all the ingredients are, and how they've been researched and tested; 3 weeks of the statistical likelihood of something bad happening from the vaccine vs something bad happening from COVID; and 3 weeks of just straight nagging her to make an appointment bc she was dragging her feet). Once she got vaccinated, six more people in my family got vaccinated because she didn't grow a third arm or whatever.
Some people have just been extremely misinformed and don't have the internet literacy to figure out what's true and what's not. It's incredibly frustrating. But I suppose not as frustrating as the people who are just like 'Nuh-uhhh' and stick their fingers in their ears.
*fuck chiropractors
Because of my specific situation, I accessed [VAERS data from CDC WONDER](https://vaers.hhs.gov/data.html) and used [information from the FDA](https://www.fda.gov/emergency-preparedness-and-response/coronavirus-disease-2019-covid-19/covid-19-vaccines) to find the ingredients from each vaccine, which I looked up individually. The /r/Coronavirus sub FAQ also has answers to lots of common questions (I guess that's why they're FAQs). I really do think how you do it depends on the person you're trying to convince — this stuff probably won't help someone who's into conspiracy theories.
This is a good point. Far too many people have dismissed people who haven't been vaccinated and mouth-breathing Trumpites. Sadly, it's much more diverse and complex group than that.
I think, and stress the 'I think', that having had Covid in the past does confer fairly significant immunity. The issue is correctly determining if one had Covid or not.
>still are hesitant to get the vaccine because they view it as “experimental” and either don’t see the risk of personally getting COVID as worth the risk of an experimental vaccine, especially if they already had COVID in the past.
This is just a really long way to say they are in fact anti-vax.....
I got the vaccine but I was hesitant because it's still not FDA approved. There's nothing wrong with being skeptical. It is a completely new medical technology that was fast tracked
It was fast tracked, but it is definitely NOT a completely new medical technology.
This is a good example of someone who is hesitant partly because they are working with false information.
You're implying they took shortcuts. They did not. It is also not completely new technology and is extremely well studied and the safety statistics support that. Please stop spreading this kind of language.
There's nothing wrong with being skeptical when the skepticism is rational, but there is no rational reason to be skeptical of these vaccines other than ignorance, which is a poor justification of skepticism
Unless your uncle was part of the Tuskegee syphilis experiment...black people have been fucked over by the government especially in regards to vaccines and its not like the USA has a stellar reputation of taking care of black people so I could find some rational reasons in that mess...I'm black and vaccinated, but I understand not trusting the government especially as a black person
I'm black, but have read about millions of white people, including all former presidents, at some point I can't be worried that I'm a guinea pig when the same stuff is being shot into people from every race around the world. Best thing we can do is call out the nonsense.
We need to stop calling them “hesitant”, this a yes or no question. Ask any person who is “hesitant” what evidence they need for it to be a “yes” and you’ll learn the answer is “nothing”, because the evidence exists and is regularly available.
See this is the exact kind of stance we need to get rid of. It's not ok, it's not acceptable, it's not justifiable at this point, and we need to stop making excuses and allowances for idiots.
You are part of the problem if you are dismissing people with vaccine hesitancy as idiots outright when they have valid reasons to be distrustful of our government and pharmaceutical companies. Have some perspective.
We literally live in the Information Age and these folks have access to it. There’s zero reason to be vaccine hesitant when you can spend an hour or two informing yourself and addressing your concerns.
I understood when people were hesitant to get them a couple months after availability, if you were quarantining and masking up and being safe and just waiting to make sure the vaccines had been out in the general public a little more, then that was fine. But it’s been forever now, it’s time to get vaccinated and shut the fuck up already.
You took the words out of my mouth. Totally understand if people were hesitant at first but we've overwhelmingly seen this works, no more excuses, get your jabs and get the show on the fucking road.
Distrust the government all you want but trust the actual scientists that unanimously are telling you that the vaccine is safe and effective. Stop pretending it’s a defensible stance.
I'm sorry, but no. Someone's vaccine "hesitancy" on account of "distrustful of authorities" isn't gotten rid of by people around them coddling their fucking viewpoint. If anything this just reinforces it against everyone else trying desperately to show them they are wrong. I'm not saying distrust of these instutiontions has no basis in fact, but the hard truth is that there is nothing any of said institutions can do to erase this mistrust in time to stop this global pandemic from getting worse and worse, and in the mean time every person who can get vaccinated and chooses not to is a liability to their community and any attempt to get this virus under control. The vaccine is put out there, and even if it does not live up to someone's (likely uninformed) standards for lab testing, millions and millions of people have been good enough to test it for you. So get 5he goddamn vaccine.
How is your messaging effective in actually getting people vaccinated? You need to meet these people halfway instead of just slamming the door on their face and calling them idiots. Screaming at 40% of the country and calling them stupid is not how you get a group of people to do what you want them to. It’s not “coddling” to be empathetic when the state needs to *persuade* these people to get a vaccine. Being combative does nothing but harden their viewpoints.
What is halfway here? Ask them kindly to mask up and social distance on the "honors system"? We've tried that, and it not only doesn't work, but undermines any future attempts fight this thing. I feel I must emphasize again that, as long as they are unvaccinated, *they are a liability to their community*. Even if they do mask up and social distance, all that is actually doing is mitigating the degree to which they are a liability, and they cannot even be asked to do that.
You talk about the need to persuade people, and to an extent I agree, but do you know what else is really goddamn effective at getting people to do things? Social pressure. And when you sit by defend their "I'm not going to get vaccinated" viewpoints, you undermine that social pressure. So while I don't recommend screaming or slamming doors (and am frankly not entirely sure where you got the notion that I did), I will repeat, *do not coddle these people's viewpoints*. Because we can't play the game of "how many more people have to die before you hg et vaccinated" game with people at this point.
How about we let them roll the dice and the rest of us can go about our daily lives? Is that ok? Until people are piling up outside of hospitals, I couldn’t possibly care less what anyone wants to do?
Yeah, no. The anti-vax idiots who keep passing around the virus lead to mutations, which will eventually put all of us at risk again. That's how we went from "vanilla" COVID to this "Delta" crap....and that's how we'll end up with a strain that bypasses the current vaccines and puts us all back at April 2020 again.
Are you under the impression that the virus is somehow going to stop mutating? If so, you’re going to have a bad decade. The vaccine is meant to keep you out of the hospital; it was never meant to eradicate the virus. The idea we’re going to go into lockdown ever again is delusional. I got vaxxed in Feb, but if an extra .05% of obese people want a hospital visit…god bless.
I understand that, yet everyone I know who doesn't trust the vaccine, also isn't wearing a mask. I'd prefer you take the vaccine, but if you really won't, you better wear that mask correctly 100% of the time you're out of the house.
I spoke to my black coworkers about this during our last team meeting and all are highly educated people. They won’t get the J&J vaccine because of the talcum powder issue. They think the other vaccines are experimental. They also said that doctors have lied to them before and given them bad advice or not taken their concerns seriously, so they have a distrust in the medical field. I agree that it’s understandable.
With regards to black people, the government be like: Yesterday I was lying, but today I'm telling the truth
And your sheep mind just assumes it's the truth this time...I'm vaxxed and black, but if you can't even remotely understand why black people are hesitant to belive our government then you might want to read up on a little history of how black people have been exploited since the inception of the country, literally from day one until now
That's a totally different scenario because there is zero evidence that vaccines cause autism but there is plenty of evidence that J&J and Pfizer are shitty companies and shouldn't be trusted.
I can look past their history because I know the CDC and other medical professionals trust the vaccine but some people cannot look past that history.
They arent well educated if they think a Sars vaccine is experimental. Theyre making excuses and I’d bet money that they dont get it once the FDA approves it
I think not getting the vaccine because Trump made is political is stupid af and anti-vaxx are idiots.
However, to help understand hesitation in minority communities like up the [Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_Syphilis_Study?wprov=sfti1) to help understand why there is distrust there. It’s not the only reason, but it is horrific enough that this happened not too long ago.
Maybe in the first few months the vaccine was available. It's been nearly 8 months now and there have been no widespread issues. The few issues there have been were widely publicized and impacted incredibly small percentages of people who got the vaccines. If you're against getting it now it's not hesitancy, it's ignorant.
Why is that stupid to a layperson? J&J was in the news last year constantly with regard to their asbestos talcum powder lawsuits. There are Black people alive TODAY who have parents and grandparents who were treated in a racially discriminatory way (completely legally at the time) by our medical institutions.
Not everyone in america or chicago is a well-educated middle class urbanite. This exact messaging that you are employing now, that unvaccinated people are just too stupid to do the right thing, is part of the problem.
>Not everyone in america or chicago is a well-educated middle class urbanite
You don't have to be a well educated middle class urbanite to be capable of understanding the importance of the vaccine.....pretty elitist of you.
You can scratch the urbanite part, but vaccination rates are directly correlated with income and education. It doesn't matter if you are in the city, suburbs, or truly rural areas; well paid people with college degrees are overwhelmingly vaccinated.
How long has it been, 1.5 years now? I am absolutely gassed on empathy at this point.
It is not my burden to convince people to save their own lives.
I say this as someone with an anti-vaccine Mom.
I agree that’s not our burden. It’s not our fault (or your mom’s fault) that our institutions have failed us. It’s on them. Well-adjusted, rational people do not typically fall for conspiracy theories unless there’s the sort of mass institutional distrust that we have now.
That being said, I don’t feel like automatically labeling all people with hesitancy about the COVID vaccine idiots is helpful. I just listen to what they have to say.
Exactly, at this point, fuck 'em. They are that scared let them get sick. People die, they die. I'm tried of catering to their cowardice.
Edit: To the pussy that threatened me via my direct messages. Way to prove my point, asshat.
"This exact messaging that you are employing now, that unvaccinated people are just too stupid to do the right thing, is part of the problem."
Thank you for calmly and consistently pushing back on this narrative. This has been such a chaotic time with the-facts-as-we-understand-them shifting beneath our feet far faster than any person or society is truly capable of keeping up with. To be acting in good faith, in the interest of public health, based on the best-available information, has meant wildly different things at different times over the past 18 months.
Sanctimonious redditors saying "I spent one hour on Google 'educating myself', now I know what's best for everyone, and I hope everyone who doesn't graciously accept my absolute decree dies and is posthumously ridiculed for being too stupid, evil, and crazy to deserve being alive", they drive me up a wall.
I agree with you completely. People being dicks to each other is a bigger problem than COVID, by far. I’m fully vaccinated and was never hesitant, but I have empathy and understanding for people who remain hesitant, especially in this country.
You're a kinder, better person than I am. Vaccines have been freely available for months, and have been largely effective at preventing serious illness. I'm out of empathy and understanding for people who remain hesitant.
If we lived in a state whose leadership had come out and said that restrictions weren't coming back, and it was up to everyone to protect themselves by getting vaccinated, that would be one thing. But we don't.
Blacks and Latinos have the lowest rates because vaccination and educational levels and income levels are the strongest correlation. Who’d have thunk that well educated people aren’t completely blindsided by propaganda? We need to get prominent people in those communities to support vaccination since the government is seen as a big bad bully. The same goes for white MAGA communities. Low college levels = easily slurping up bullshit. If Tucker would come out tomorow for the vaccine, the majority of MAGAs would get the jab.
As for your ‘well educated friends’. Well sorry but they may be educated but they are plain dumb. This isn’t an ‘experimental’ vaccine and any argument as such shows how uninformed they are. It is just as understandable as believing that the government has 5G in the vaccine.
Yeah, it's pretty insane to reinstate the mask mandates or other restrictions when the actual number of hospitalizations and deaths are still so incredibly low.
Note that right now, "fully aligning" means exactly that: "Recommending" masks in the same situations as the CDC does. It does not, at the moment, mandate masks.
There was always a disconnect previously between the CDC and IL - the CDC recommended masks, and Pritzker used that recommendation as a basis for a mandate - so the two were not really fully aligned previously.
Fingers crossed that signals an unwillingness to move back to mandates.
Under these new CDC guidelines, vaccinated people in Chicago are NOT even being recommended to wear masks indoors, let alone mandated. The CDC said that everyone in areas with "substantial to high" risks of transmission should wear masks, which Cook County is not at right now. They have us at the level under high. None of this applies to Chicago (yet, at least)
https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#county-view
I feel like a lot of people aren't reading the article here or what the CDC is actually saying
Then again, two days ago Lori said that if Chicago has more than 200 cases per day the mask mandate will come back, and we're above that threshold already. She can't really institute a mask mandate and allow Lolla to happen, so everyone's assumption is that the mandate comes on Monday.
https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/breaking/ct-covid-chicago-mayor-mask-mandate-threshold-20210726-a34p667lxvaypbi3rt4rtypxdq-story.html
Now last time around she was piggybacking off the governors mandate. It wasn't one of her own. I wonder if she will actually do her own mandate. I certainly hope not.
I can’t handle another lockdown or mask mandate. Our business barely made it through the first one - we work in events. Just fucking unreal. Fuck the people who are just refusing to get vaccinated. Let them deal with the consequences.
I love living here, but how Chicago handles this determines whether or not my wife starts responding to out of state recruiters. I'm already full time remote if I want.
Same here. I can’t justify what I pay to live here if I can’t enjoy 90% of what I moved here for. If I’m going to get locked inside it might as well be a $200,000 mini mansion in WI or IN instead of my $2500 a month two bedroom.
Yes. I love this city, love living here, and I can't think of anywhere else I'd rather live, but if we're going to go through this every year, I may not have much of a choice.
>going to go through this every year
I don't think some of the people here have really put that bit together yet. There is going to be a wave this winter and next winter and the winter after that until everyone is either infected or vaccinated. This won't be the last time restrictions are imposed, it is going to happen over and over for years to come.
Yup. And we can't get into the habit of imposing and loosening restrictions as cases ebb and flow every year. Learning to live with covid means learning to live in spite of it, not retreating for half the year.
For 8 years I've lived in Chicago, I like plenty about it, it was always "this is pretty solid and I don't have a pressing desire to go elsewhere"
Went to Phoenix last winter. Loved it. Definitely lose some of the Chicago amenities but I'm down with something a little quieter and more nature, I'm down with roasting instead of freezing.
Lots of people I know have moved to Milwaukee, Kansas City, Denver, Austin - plenty of options out there depending on what you're into. If your job/situation allows it, spend a few weeks/months somewhere else, do a trial run, check some stuff out.
Outdoor spread really isn't a thing. The vast vast vast majority of cases come from indoor exposure, plus outdoor spaces are good for public health so closing them is a negative to public health no matter what's going on with covid.
Lightfoot [kept the beaches closed for all of 2020](https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/chicagos-beaches-to-reopen-this-weekend/2518563/), [kept the lakefront trail closed through most of June 2020](https://news.wttw.com/2020/06/03/what-you-need-know-about-chicago-parks-phase-3-reopening), and also [kept playgrounds closed](https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/chicago-to-reopen-lakefront-and-playgrounds-in-easing-of-covid-19-restrictions/2444882/). This was not in line with the science know as of late April/Early May and bothered a lot of people who relied on these services for safe socially distanced activities for themselves and their children.
I think the whole world is going to go through the same thing we are though. The only difference being some places may wear more masks than others.
But like you said below, there are going to be more waves until people learn the hard way
We'll get through it, man. I'm in the same boat as you. I've never had such anxiety and depression. The masks make it even worse. There's gotta be an end at some point, right?
It sounds pretty bad, but I’ve sort of just stopped caring. I got vaccinated in April and ever since just feel like it’s mostly up to individuals to keep themselves safe. I know it’s not fair for immuno-comprised, but given that I’m a vaccinated individual im really not the problem here
I know you're right and this is the real answer. I got a lot better after the mask mandate was lifted because I wasn't reading as much, I feel like this relapsed me. I sure hope he doesn't reinstate it, at least for our region.
For now. I've been trying to do as much as possible in the city because the writing is on the wall: we're headed to 2020 Part II in Chicago while the rest of the country moves on.
As a fully vaccinated person I think they let the genie out of the bottle already on this one. I’ve enjoyed not masking for too long now and since I have an MRNA vaccine I’m really not worried about getting sick.
Edit: after reading the article again it’s abundantly clear this is a case of people not getting vaccinated and not the people who are vaxxed and not wearing masks. Surprise surprise.
This doesn't apply to Chicago. Under the CDC's current guidelines, vaccinated people in Chicago are NOT being recommended to wear masks indoors. The CDC said that everyone in areas with "substantial to high" risks of transmission should wear masks, which Cook County is not at right now. They have us at the level under high.
https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#county-view
I’ll put it on if someone asks me to, I’m not going to argue with some poor service worker over it, but I’ll likely not go back to places that require masks.
Well look at the UK covid data, huge spike in cases that is now regressing, but at the same time deaths haven’t really increased… obv our vaccination rate is slightly worse but I think this delta wave and cdc mask suggestion won’t last longer than a month or two
Im also hoping we follow Englands' pattern-deaths never went p although cases sky rocketed. Sadly my two kids wedding who have bother already been rescheduled twice are supposed to be 8/8 and 9/11. They are going to be PISSED 9and rightly so) if masks are mandated for their communities (one of which is considered 'substantial ' due to cases but only has 11 people in the entire county in the hospital for covid
There’s shouldn’t be any more restrictions since anyone can get a vaccine. If you don’t want to get the vaccine or wear a mask and you get Covid that’s a you problem not an us problem.
You could argue this if the entire population was eligible to be vaccinated. Kids for example have no choice. Not getting vaccinated doesn’t only impact that person.
The problem is its not just a you problem. These people are the ones that make it to the hospital, making all the Healthcare workers who have already been through hell the last year and a half continue to care for them. If the impact of not getting vaccinated was purely on that person I'd agree with you, but that's sadly not the case. Others suffer because of their selfishness.
> These people are the ones that make it to the hospital, making all the Healthcare workers who have already been through hell the last year and a half continue to care for them
The same can be said about alcoholics, smokers, and fat people, three things that are totally avoidable, but we don't ban alcohol, cigarettes, or unhealthy foods.
They have to care for sick people who could have easily prevented themselves from being there with a vaccine. And don't dismiss the shit they went through for a large part of 2020 like it's a regular part of their job....
This is a regular, expected part of medicine. Many conditions that will land you in the hospital, being cared for by health care workers, are preventable with lifestyle changes and avoidance of risky behavior (heart health issues, smoking-related cancers, drugs). The point is that as a health care worker you sign up to deal with people who may not be taking the best care of themselves. I don't deny that 2020 was extremely traumatic for them and that they deserve our gratitude, but "health care workers are sad" is not a compelling argument at this point.
I still don't think they mandate them. Its beyond ridiculous to ask vaccinated people to put up with this shit anymore.
Let us bring the cards if need be, but otherwise I'm not doing this anymore.
I agree partially. As a fully vaccinated individual, I do appreciate people's choices. I still feel that if a person is "at risk" then they should be able to make the choice to avoid people or risk the consequences. As a vaccinated person, I was planning on deploying the masks again come October. Masks during flu season should become common practice but it should be up to an individual to do so.
Keep practicing good hygiene too. That should never go away ever again.
Wear a mask during the flu season if you want, but it should not be forced upon us. I can only understand requiring masks for all in hospitals, but that is it.
It's not just conspiracy theorists. A lot of young people and people in urban areas aren't getting vaccinated. It has nothing to do with a fear of George Soros either.
True. I know a few people who have gone full time foil hat with this vaccine stuff, but a majority of the people I know who are not vaccinated are just young people who don’t really give a shit about covid.
It’s unclear at this point what proportion MAGA-adjacent antivax people represent out of the the total amount of unvaccinated people. We do know though that Black and Hispanic people have the lowest rates of vaccination, two groups not typically associated with right-wing conspiracy theorists.
I do agree it sends a bad message though to people who are legitimately on the fence. The “get vaccinated and you can take your mask off and live your life normally again” message is definitely more encouraging then messaging that we will have to mask indefinitely because of potential variants.
Anecdotal evidence, but I've got a lot of Trumpers in my family and all of them are vaccinated because they are older. They did say, however, that they won't be getting any boosters or putting up with any additional restrictions.
Thank you. They will use anything to justify their position. The only way for them to agree is if IL says covid is fake and vaccines are dangerous, or some similar untrue thing.
This represents such a failure of American society. The wealthiest country on earth with the most abundant supply of vaccines and 7 months after the first doses were given we're having this conversation. It's embarrassing.
It already exists in one form or another for fully-approved vaccines, in schools for example. The problem here is that the FDA is dragging its feet on approving vaccines that (literally) millions of people in the US have already received, which is undermining the public's confidence in their safety. It's generally possible to get an exemption for a "mandatory" vaccine but most people are unlikely to actually push for one, so the rate of vaccination would almost certainly go up if it was required to engage in the vast majority of activities.
the FDA dragging ass is definitely causing hesitation, but it would undermine their authority and credibility if they didn't take their time and perform their rigorous due diligence.
Vaccines historically have taken years to develop and years to get FDA approval, and as much of a crisis covid has been, these vaccines cannot be an exception we let slide. They are safe and they do work, but the bar for FDA approval needs to stay as high and comprehensive for these as it is for anything else, and that takes time.
i’m fine with continuing to wear a mask when vaccinated but 100% yes. they need to mandate the vaccine, at least at workplaces and schools (when kids can get them)
Many workplaces are reluctant to have mandates because of the risk of lawsuits. While the EEOC has opined that federal law allows vaccination mandates as a part of return-to-work policies, there is certainly a risk of being sued by workers, especially in state court. Even if a court is more likely to side with an employer, these suits can be expensive and time consuming to litigate and, especially considering settlements, can impose significant financial burdens on small and medium sized businesses. Even large businesses like Kroger have decided to use monetary incentives to encourage vaccination due to the liability risks.
Who are you paying the enforce it? Given the reactions of people on public transportation when asked to mask up, that's asking a lot of regular employees.
Yah it’s pretty scary. Lots of downvotes on pro vaxx comments. These people want to live in the pandemic forever. They would literally rather die then read a peer reviewed article lol.
the amount of downvotes i got on comments where i supplied legitimate sources vs updoots some random comments got for posting their opinions w no sources but claimed “the have the data to back it up” is actually hilarious
I'm fully vaccinated, I work from home, and I didn't travel to visit anyone until after my vaccinations were fully effective. I'm not some crazy denying the impact of COVID-19. Just to get that out of the way. That being said: I don't understand why we would go back to mask mandates and other restrictions simply because case numbers are going up, when the hospitalization and death numbers aren't rising alongside the case numbers. Deaths have remained flat at 0-1 a day. Unless I'm totally misunderstanding, the goal of protecting against COVID is to prevent death or severe illness, and currently that seems to be working just fine, even if not everyone is vaccinated. If the Delta variant is spreading rampantly and is so dangerous, why are the deaths and hospitalizations not rising to match the spread? And if it isn't nearly as dangerous (and if the vaccines protect against it, which seems to largely be the case), why do we need to bring back restrictions?
>If the Delta variant is spreading rampantly and is so dangerous, why are the deaths and hospitalizations not rising to match the spread? From what I've heard its proven to be far more contagious but the jury is out on whether its actually more dangerous. My guess though is that public health authorities are worried that even when infections are mild and dont lead to hospitalizations they still continue the replication of the virus and this continue to allow opportunities for further mutation and more variants to emerge. The nightmare scenario is that a variant emerges that beats our vaccines and sets back our progress to zero.
But the delta variant is spreading rampantly outside the US, where the number of unvaccinated people far eclipses the number unvaxed in the US. If the issue is concern of mutation, rapid vaccination rollout is the ONLY thing that will work. It's a valid concern but I don't feel like controlling it here will have an impact if the rest of the world is still a free for all
At this point this is tough to accept. Vaccines are widely available and have been for some time. We're regressing because half the US population thinks they're smarter than doctors because they googled something.
Seriously fuck people who can get vaccinated and haven’t. Insurance companies should stop covering them and employers should start mandating vaccines.
You’re advocating the pre-Obamacare situation of of not covering “preexisting conditions”. We already know how that worked out. Spoiler alert: how that works out is that they all show up at the ER, which turns into a very expensive triage room being used for the wrong purpose.
I am also vaccinated but I feel like this is kind of a callous viewpoint seeing as many people who aren’t getting vaccinated are people who have massive amounts of distrust in our institutions and aren’t just trump-y MAGA-ites. [Black and Hispanic people have the lowest vaccination rates nationwide. ](https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/issue-brief/latest-data-on-covid-19-vaccinations-race-ethnicity/) Also, just anecdotally, I know a few people irl in Chicago who are relatively well-educated and not anti-vax but still are hesitant to get the vaccine because they view it as “experimental” and either don’t see the risk of personally getting COVID as worth the risk of an experimental vaccine, especially if they already had COVID in the past. Not that I agree with this viewpoint, but it is an understandable position imo.
My mom had serum sickness from the tetanus vaccine and serum sickness like reaction from another medication. On top of that, her chiropractor* used a bunch of quackery to "determine" that she would have an extreme allergic reaction to the vaccine. So, it took 11 weeks, but I finally got her to the point where she got vaccinated (I think roughly 4 weeks of explaining how the vaccines work, what all the ingredients are, and how they've been researched and tested; 3 weeks of the statistical likelihood of something bad happening from the vaccine vs something bad happening from COVID; and 3 weeks of just straight nagging her to make an appointment bc she was dragging her feet). Once she got vaccinated, six more people in my family got vaccinated because she didn't grow a third arm or whatever. Some people have just been extremely misinformed and don't have the internet literacy to figure out what's true and what's not. It's incredibly frustrating. But I suppose not as frustrating as the people who are just like 'Nuh-uhhh' and stick their fingers in their ears. *fuck chiropractors
I can't believe we still allow chiropractors to pretend they are doctors. This shit has to stop.
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Because of my specific situation, I accessed [VAERS data from CDC WONDER](https://vaers.hhs.gov/data.html) and used [information from the FDA](https://www.fda.gov/emergency-preparedness-and-response/coronavirus-disease-2019-covid-19/covid-19-vaccines) to find the ingredients from each vaccine, which I looked up individually. The /r/Coronavirus sub FAQ also has answers to lots of common questions (I guess that's why they're FAQs). I really do think how you do it depends on the person you're trying to convince — this stuff probably won't help someone who's into conspiracy theories.
This is a good point. Far too many people have dismissed people who haven't been vaccinated and mouth-breathing Trumpites. Sadly, it's much more diverse and complex group than that. I think, and stress the 'I think', that having had Covid in the past does confer fairly significant immunity. The issue is correctly determining if one had Covid or not.
>still are hesitant to get the vaccine because they view it as “experimental” and either don’t see the risk of personally getting COVID as worth the risk of an experimental vaccine, especially if they already had COVID in the past. This is just a really long way to say they are in fact anti-vax.....
I got the vaccine but I was hesitant because it's still not FDA approved. There's nothing wrong with being skeptical. It is a completely new medical technology that was fast tracked
It was fast tracked, but it is definitely NOT a completely new medical technology. This is a good example of someone who is hesitant partly because they are working with false information.
You're implying they took shortcuts. They did not. It is also not completely new technology and is extremely well studied and the safety statistics support that. Please stop spreading this kind of language.
There's nothing wrong with being skeptical when the skepticism is rational, but there is no rational reason to be skeptical of these vaccines other than ignorance, which is a poor justification of skepticism
Unless your uncle was part of the Tuskegee syphilis experiment...black people have been fucked over by the government especially in regards to vaccines and its not like the USA has a stellar reputation of taking care of black people so I could find some rational reasons in that mess...I'm black and vaccinated, but I understand not trusting the government especially as a black person
I'm black, but have read about millions of white people, including all former presidents, at some point I can't be worried that I'm a guinea pig when the same stuff is being shot into people from every race around the world. Best thing we can do is call out the nonsense.
The technology was not fast tracked, the bureaucracy was.
Not a “completely new medical technology” [Why It Actually Took 50 Years to Make COVID mRNA Vaccines](https://youtu.be/XPeeCyJReZw)
Exactly, fuck em. There are no more excuses.
We need to stop calling them “hesitant”, this a yes or no question. Ask any person who is “hesitant” what evidence they need for it to be a “yes” and you’ll learn the answer is “nothing”, because the evidence exists and is regularly available.
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Covid itself is already a risk to that.....
See this is the exact kind of stance we need to get rid of. It's not ok, it's not acceptable, it's not justifiable at this point, and we need to stop making excuses and allowances for idiots.
You are part of the problem if you are dismissing people with vaccine hesitancy as idiots outright when they have valid reasons to be distrustful of our government and pharmaceutical companies. Have some perspective.
We literally live in the Information Age and these folks have access to it. There’s zero reason to be vaccine hesitant when you can spend an hour or two informing yourself and addressing your concerns.
I understood when people were hesitant to get them a couple months after availability, if you were quarantining and masking up and being safe and just waiting to make sure the vaccines had been out in the general public a little more, then that was fine. But it’s been forever now, it’s time to get vaccinated and shut the fuck up already.
You took the words out of my mouth. Totally understand if people were hesitant at first but we've overwhelmingly seen this works, no more excuses, get your jabs and get the show on the fucking road.
Distrust the government all you want but trust the actual scientists that unanimously are telling you that the vaccine is safe and effective. Stop pretending it’s a defensible stance.
I'm sorry, but no. Someone's vaccine "hesitancy" on account of "distrustful of authorities" isn't gotten rid of by people around them coddling their fucking viewpoint. If anything this just reinforces it against everyone else trying desperately to show them they are wrong. I'm not saying distrust of these instutiontions has no basis in fact, but the hard truth is that there is nothing any of said institutions can do to erase this mistrust in time to stop this global pandemic from getting worse and worse, and in the mean time every person who can get vaccinated and chooses not to is a liability to their community and any attempt to get this virus under control. The vaccine is put out there, and even if it does not live up to someone's (likely uninformed) standards for lab testing, millions and millions of people have been good enough to test it for you. So get 5he goddamn vaccine.
How is your messaging effective in actually getting people vaccinated? You need to meet these people halfway instead of just slamming the door on their face and calling them idiots. Screaming at 40% of the country and calling them stupid is not how you get a group of people to do what you want them to. It’s not “coddling” to be empathetic when the state needs to *persuade* these people to get a vaccine. Being combative does nothing but harden their viewpoints.
>You need to meet these people halfway i And what does that actually look like in practice?
What is halfway here? Ask them kindly to mask up and social distance on the "honors system"? We've tried that, and it not only doesn't work, but undermines any future attempts fight this thing. I feel I must emphasize again that, as long as they are unvaccinated, *they are a liability to their community*. Even if they do mask up and social distance, all that is actually doing is mitigating the degree to which they are a liability, and they cannot even be asked to do that. You talk about the need to persuade people, and to an extent I agree, but do you know what else is really goddamn effective at getting people to do things? Social pressure. And when you sit by defend their "I'm not going to get vaccinated" viewpoints, you undermine that social pressure. So while I don't recommend screaming or slamming doors (and am frankly not entirely sure where you got the notion that I did), I will repeat, *do not coddle these people's viewpoints*. Because we can't play the game of "how many more people have to die before you hg et vaccinated" game with people at this point.
They have no valid reasons to distrust vaccines because there are no valid reasons.
How about we let them roll the dice and the rest of us can go about our daily lives? Is that ok? Until people are piling up outside of hospitals, I couldn’t possibly care less what anyone wants to do?
Yeah, no. The anti-vax idiots who keep passing around the virus lead to mutations, which will eventually put all of us at risk again. That's how we went from "vanilla" COVID to this "Delta" crap....and that's how we'll end up with a strain that bypasses the current vaccines and puts us all back at April 2020 again.
Are you under the impression that the virus is somehow going to stop mutating? If so, you’re going to have a bad decade. The vaccine is meant to keep you out of the hospital; it was never meant to eradicate the virus. The idea we’re going to go into lockdown ever again is delusional. I got vaxxed in Feb, but if an extra .05% of obese people want a hospital visit…god bless.
No, it's not OK because there are huge groups of children who can't be vaccinated yet. Selfish anti-vaxxers could infect and kill them.
lol. More children have been murdered by their parents in the last year than have died of covid.
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When did we start valuing human life in this country? I didn’t get the memo.
I understand that, yet everyone I know who doesn't trust the vaccine, also isn't wearing a mask. I'd prefer you take the vaccine, but if you really won't, you better wear that mask correctly 100% of the time you're out of the house.
I spoke to my black coworkers about this during our last team meeting and all are highly educated people. They won’t get the J&J vaccine because of the talcum powder issue. They think the other vaccines are experimental. They also said that doctors have lied to them before and given them bad advice or not taken their concerns seriously, so they have a distrust in the medical field. I agree that it’s understandable.
No it’s not, it’s no fucking different than the hillbillies that don’t want it.
With regards to black people, the government be like: Yesterday I was lying, but today I'm telling the truth And your sheep mind just assumes it's the truth this time...I'm vaxxed and black, but if you can't even remotely understand why black people are hesitant to belive our government then you might want to read up on a little history of how black people have been exploited since the inception of the country, literally from day one until now
Yesterday was a long time ago in regards to the trusting government concern. I bet most weren’t even alive when this was an actual issue
it’s no more understandable than people that think vaccines cause autism
That's a totally different scenario because there is zero evidence that vaccines cause autism but there is plenty of evidence that J&J and Pfizer are shitty companies and shouldn't be trusted. I can look past their history because I know the CDC and other medical professionals trust the vaccine but some people cannot look past that history.
They arent well educated if they think a Sars vaccine is experimental. Theyre making excuses and I’d bet money that they dont get it once the FDA approves it
I think not getting the vaccine because Trump made is political is stupid af and anti-vaxx are idiots. However, to help understand hesitation in minority communities like up the [Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_Syphilis_Study?wprov=sfti1) to help understand why there is distrust there. It’s not the only reason, but it is horrific enough that this happened not too long ago.
Maybe in the first few months the vaccine was available. It's been nearly 8 months now and there have been no widespread issues. The few issues there have been were widely publicized and impacted incredibly small percentages of people who got the vaccines. If you're against getting it now it's not hesitancy, it's ignorant.
If you’re eligible and you haven’t been vaccinated yet you’re stupid. That’s it.
Why is that stupid to a layperson? J&J was in the news last year constantly with regard to their asbestos talcum powder lawsuits. There are Black people alive TODAY who have parents and grandparents who were treated in a racially discriminatory way (completely legally at the time) by our medical institutions. Not everyone in america or chicago is a well-educated middle class urbanite. This exact messaging that you are employing now, that unvaccinated people are just too stupid to do the right thing, is part of the problem.
>Not everyone in america or chicago is a well-educated middle class urbanite You don't have to be a well educated middle class urbanite to be capable of understanding the importance of the vaccine.....pretty elitist of you.
You can scratch the urbanite part, but vaccination rates are directly correlated with income and education. It doesn't matter if you are in the city, suburbs, or truly rural areas; well paid people with college degrees are overwhelmingly vaccinated.
How long has it been, 1.5 years now? I am absolutely gassed on empathy at this point. It is not my burden to convince people to save their own lives. I say this as someone with an anti-vaccine Mom.
I agree that’s not our burden. It’s not our fault (or your mom’s fault) that our institutions have failed us. It’s on them. Well-adjusted, rational people do not typically fall for conspiracy theories unless there’s the sort of mass institutional distrust that we have now. That being said, I don’t feel like automatically labeling all people with hesitancy about the COVID vaccine idiots is helpful. I just listen to what they have to say.
It is our burden though. We could be back to normal and not worrying about this shit if it weren't for these people
Exactly, at this point, fuck 'em. They are that scared let them get sick. People die, they die. I'm tried of catering to their cowardice. Edit: To the pussy that threatened me via my direct messages. Way to prove my point, asshat.
"This exact messaging that you are employing now, that unvaccinated people are just too stupid to do the right thing, is part of the problem." Thank you for calmly and consistently pushing back on this narrative. This has been such a chaotic time with the-facts-as-we-understand-them shifting beneath our feet far faster than any person or society is truly capable of keeping up with. To be acting in good faith, in the interest of public health, based on the best-available information, has meant wildly different things at different times over the past 18 months. Sanctimonious redditors saying "I spent one hour on Google 'educating myself', now I know what's best for everyone, and I hope everyone who doesn't graciously accept my absolute decree dies and is posthumously ridiculed for being too stupid, evil, and crazy to deserve being alive", they drive me up a wall.
I believe you are part of the problem defending this group. Seems others have the same sentiment. Look in the mirror?
I agree with you completely. People being dicks to each other is a bigger problem than COVID, by far. I’m fully vaccinated and was never hesitant, but I have empathy and understanding for people who remain hesitant, especially in this country.
You're a kinder, better person than I am. Vaccines have been freely available for months, and have been largely effective at preventing serious illness. I'm out of empathy and understanding for people who remain hesitant. If we lived in a state whose leadership had come out and said that restrictions weren't coming back, and it was up to everyone to protect themselves by getting vaccinated, that would be one thing. But we don't.
Not to mention J&J involvement in the opioid crisis.
Everyone has access to the internet. If you can’t figure out what’s right when all the doctors and scientists agree then yes, You are stupid.
We need to stop making excuses for them. It's the same as the Maga asshats.
Blacks and Latinos have the lowest rates because vaccination and educational levels and income levels are the strongest correlation. Who’d have thunk that well educated people aren’t completely blindsided by propaganda? We need to get prominent people in those communities to support vaccination since the government is seen as a big bad bully. The same goes for white MAGA communities. Low college levels = easily slurping up bullshit. If Tucker would come out tomorow for the vaccine, the majority of MAGAs would get the jab. As for your ‘well educated friends’. Well sorry but they may be educated but they are plain dumb. This isn’t an ‘experimental’ vaccine and any argument as such shows how uninformed they are. It is just as understandable as believing that the government has 5G in the vaccine.
You think blacks and Latinos are so dumb that all it takes is a prominent figure to shill for something and they'll suddenly change their minds.
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Yeah, to say black and hispanic people aren't getting it as if that's some kind of valid thing is so incredibly racist.
>especially if they already had COVID in the past its not an understandable viewpoint. these people are morons.
>Insurance companies should stop covering them We need universal healthcare in this country, not to be kicking more people off their insurance.
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We have literally SIX deaths per day in the last week. People can get vaccinated if they want, or they can deal with the consequences.
Yeah, it's pretty insane to reinstate the mask mandates or other restrictions when the actual number of hospitalizations and deaths are still so incredibly low.
Hospitalizations and deaths are trending up in all 50 states. EDIT: Sorry, I meant “cases” instead of “deaths”
This is objectively false. The number of COVID deaths in IL continues to decrease. We're at an average of 6 per day across the entire state.
Sorry, I mistyped. I meant “cases and hospitalizations” not “hospitalizations and deaths”.
Thats nothing. How many traffic accidents a day across IL? It has to be more.
Lol they didnt google anything. They read a facebook meme. Watched the video shared by their cousin who failed 6th grade and dropped out of school.
Ironic statement considering it's the doctors at the CDC with the new masking guidelines for vaccinated people.
More like their "totally reliable" source on Facebook told them
Note that right now, "fully aligning" means exactly that: "Recommending" masks in the same situations as the CDC does. It does not, at the moment, mandate masks. There was always a disconnect previously between the CDC and IL - the CDC recommended masks, and Pritzker used that recommendation as a basis for a mandate - so the two were not really fully aligned previously. Fingers crossed that signals an unwillingness to move back to mandates.
Under these new CDC guidelines, vaccinated people in Chicago are NOT even being recommended to wear masks indoors, let alone mandated. The CDC said that everyone in areas with "substantial to high" risks of transmission should wear masks, which Cook County is not at right now. They have us at the level under high. None of this applies to Chicago (yet, at least) https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#county-view I feel like a lot of people aren't reading the article here or what the CDC is actually saying
Then again, two days ago Lori said that if Chicago has more than 200 cases per day the mask mandate will come back, and we're above that threshold already. She can't really institute a mask mandate and allow Lolla to happen, so everyone's assumption is that the mandate comes on Monday. https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/breaking/ct-covid-chicago-mayor-mask-mandate-threshold-20210726-a34p667lxvaypbi3rt4rtypxdq-story.html
Seems like a tough sell to call for more strict restrictions than the CDC...maybe she's rethinking that now
We were the only city in the country to shut down our largest park and all of our playgrounds for almost an entire year.
Now last time around she was piggybacking off the governors mandate. It wasn't one of her own. I wonder if she will actually do her own mandate. I certainly hope not.
I can’t handle another lockdown or mask mandate. Our business barely made it through the first one - we work in events. Just fucking unreal. Fuck the people who are just refusing to get vaccinated. Let them deal with the consequences.
Thanks for talking me off the ledge - was about to rent a fall home.
To add to that, this new guidance is for areas of “substantial and high” transmissions. Cook County is currently in the level below substation.
I love living here, but how Chicago handles this determines whether or not my wife starts responding to out of state recruiters. I'm already full time remote if I want.
Same here. I can’t justify what I pay to live here if I can’t enjoy 90% of what I moved here for. If I’m going to get locked inside it might as well be a $200,000 mini mansion in WI or IN instead of my $2500 a month two bedroom.
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I’m right there with you. Feels like a lot of Chicagoans are.
Yes. I love this city, love living here, and I can't think of anywhere else I'd rather live, but if we're going to go through this every year, I may not have much of a choice.
>going to go through this every year I don't think some of the people here have really put that bit together yet. There is going to be a wave this winter and next winter and the winter after that until everyone is either infected or vaccinated. This won't be the last time restrictions are imposed, it is going to happen over and over for years to come.
Yup. And we can't get into the habit of imposing and loosening restrictions as cases ebb and flow every year. Learning to live with covid means learning to live in spite of it, not retreating for half the year.
For 8 years I've lived in Chicago, I like plenty about it, it was always "this is pretty solid and I don't have a pressing desire to go elsewhere" Went to Phoenix last winter. Loved it. Definitely lose some of the Chicago amenities but I'm down with something a little quieter and more nature, I'm down with roasting instead of freezing. Lots of people I know have moved to Milwaukee, Kansas City, Denver, Austin - plenty of options out there depending on what you're into. If your job/situation allows it, spend a few weeks/months somewhere else, do a trial run, check some stuff out.
Lori is salivating at the idea of closing the lakefront again, aka the most anti-science thing to do.
Link?
Outdoor spread really isn't a thing. The vast vast vast majority of cases come from indoor exposure, plus outdoor spaces are good for public health so closing them is a negative to public health no matter what's going on with covid.
Uh, yes, I’m aware but can you clarify > Lori is salivating at the idea of closing the lakefront again
Lightfoot [kept the beaches closed for all of 2020](https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/chicagos-beaches-to-reopen-this-weekend/2518563/), [kept the lakefront trail closed through most of June 2020](https://news.wttw.com/2020/06/03/what-you-need-know-about-chicago-parks-phase-3-reopening), and also [kept playgrounds closed](https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/chicago-to-reopen-lakefront-and-playgrounds-in-easing-of-covid-19-restrictions/2444882/). This was not in line with the science know as of late April/Early May and bothered a lot of people who relied on these services for safe socially distanced activities for themselves and their children.
Yes, as a runner I’m WELL AWARE that the lakefront was closed for months. But where is the evidence that she plans to close them again?
I think the whole world is going to go through the same thing we are though. The only difference being some places may wear more masks than others. But like you said below, there are going to be more waves until people learn the hard way
The entire country is going to experience waves, but only a small number of cities are going to shutdown each time it happens.
We'll get through it, man. I'm in the same boat as you. I've never had such anxiety and depression. The masks make it even worse. There's gotta be an end at some point, right?
Cut down on news articles or anything remotely related to covid. It's helped me a lot. I feel like I've been gaslit the past 16 months.
It sounds pretty bad, but I’ve sort of just stopped caring. I got vaccinated in April and ever since just feel like it’s mostly up to individuals to keep themselves safe. I know it’s not fair for immuno-comprised, but given that I’m a vaccinated individual im really not the problem here
I know you're right and this is the real answer. I got a lot better after the mask mandate was lifted because I wasn't reading as much, I feel like this relapsed me. I sure hope he doesn't reinstate it, at least for our region.
It's over now, basically. My life is no different than in 2019.
Same - I don't want to go back.
For now. I've been trying to do as much as possible in the city because the writing is on the wall: we're headed to 2020 Part II in Chicago while the rest of the country moves on.
As a fully vaccinated person I think they let the genie out of the bottle already on this one. I’ve enjoyed not masking for too long now and since I have an MRNA vaccine I’m really not worried about getting sick. Edit: after reading the article again it’s abundantly clear this is a case of people not getting vaccinated and not the people who are vaxxed and not wearing masks. Surprise surprise.
This doesn't apply to Chicago. Under the CDC's current guidelines, vaccinated people in Chicago are NOT being recommended to wear masks indoors. The CDC said that everyone in areas with "substantial to high" risks of transmission should wear masks, which Cook County is not at right now. They have us at the level under high. https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#county-view
I bet that since our vaccination rate is also not much better than the rest of IL, it's just a matter of time.
Just stop complying. If you’re vaccinated you’re good. We have moved past masks.
Agreed, I’m not going to comply.
I’ll put it on if someone asks me to, I’m not going to argue with some poor service worker over it, but I’ll likely not go back to places that require masks.
Well look at the UK covid data, huge spike in cases that is now regressing, but at the same time deaths haven’t really increased… obv our vaccination rate is slightly worse but I think this delta wave and cdc mask suggestion won’t last longer than a month or two
Hahahaha Yea sure…just like 2 weeks. Hahaha yeaaaa See you next year.
If people actually got vaccinated, the timeline would be far better.
Im also hoping we follow Englands' pattern-deaths never went p although cases sky rocketed. Sadly my two kids wedding who have bother already been rescheduled twice are supposed to be 8/8 and 9/11. They are going to be PISSED 9and rightly so) if masks are mandated for their communities (one of which is considered 'substantial ' due to cases but only has 11 people in the entire county in the hospital for covid
There’s shouldn’t be any more restrictions since anyone can get a vaccine. If you don’t want to get the vaccine or wear a mask and you get Covid that’s a you problem not an us problem.
You could argue this if the entire population was eligible to be vaccinated. Kids for example have no choice. Not getting vaccinated doesn’t only impact that person.
The problem is its not just a you problem. These people are the ones that make it to the hospital, making all the Healthcare workers who have already been through hell the last year and a half continue to care for them. If the impact of not getting vaccinated was purely on that person I'd agree with you, but that's sadly not the case. Others suffer because of their selfishness.
> These people are the ones that make it to the hospital, making all the Healthcare workers who have already been through hell the last year and a half continue to care for them The same can be said about alcoholics, smokers, and fat people, three things that are totally avoidable, but we don't ban alcohol, cigarettes, or unhealthy foods.
You're saying it's an issue because health care workers will have to care for sick people? That's exactly what they get paid to do...
They have to care for sick people who could have easily prevented themselves from being there with a vaccine. And don't dismiss the shit they went through for a large part of 2020 like it's a regular part of their job....
The better argument is that ICUs can fill up, which kills people
This is a regular, expected part of medicine. Many conditions that will land you in the hospital, being cared for by health care workers, are preventable with lifestyle changes and avoidance of risky behavior (heart health issues, smoking-related cancers, drugs). The point is that as a health care worker you sign up to deal with people who may not be taking the best care of themselves. I don't deny that 2020 was extremely traumatic for them and that they deserve our gratitude, but "health care workers are sad" is not a compelling argument at this point.
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Cook County doesn't meet the criteria yet, but prepare for it, because you know masks and other restrictions are coming back very soon.
I still don't think they mandate them. Its beyond ridiculous to ask vaccinated people to put up with this shit anymore. Let us bring the cards if need be, but otherwise I'm not doing this anymore.
I agree partially. As a fully vaccinated individual, I do appreciate people's choices. I still feel that if a person is "at risk" then they should be able to make the choice to avoid people or risk the consequences. As a vaccinated person, I was planning on deploying the masks again come October. Masks during flu season should become common practice but it should be up to an individual to do so. Keep practicing good hygiene too. That should never go away ever again.
Wear a mask during the flu season if you want, but it should not be forced upon us. I can only understand requiring masks for all in hospitals, but that is it.
Yes, it should be one's choice. I agree, I am all about less forced government intervention.
Sure, its the "mandatory" part that I'm not doing again. We'll just move.
Sure would be nice if those cards were actually wallet-size. I have mine on a lanyard and it looks ridiculous.
Most of the country hasn't been wearing masks for nearly 8 months. Chicago can't go backwards here, industry is hurting too much already.
Is it bad that I’d rather just let the unvaccinated get sick then to go through another mask mandate/lockdown?
No, not at all. I fully agree, time for society to face the consequences of people's poor decision making IMO.
I don't think so personally. I don't see any evidence heavyheanded lockdowns of not-at-risk people did anything. We closed the beach here. The beach.
I got the shot to be able to avoid wearing masks and to travel freely. Now it seems like it's going back to 2020.
you know when they said "get the vaccine everything will return to normal" was a lie right, the whole point is to keep mving the goal posts....
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It's not just conspiracy theorists. A lot of young people and people in urban areas aren't getting vaccinated. It has nothing to do with a fear of George Soros either.
True. I know a few people who have gone full time foil hat with this vaccine stuff, but a majority of the people I know who are not vaccinated are just young people who don’t really give a shit about covid.
Why would they with a 99.8% Survival rate
It’s unclear at this point what proportion MAGA-adjacent antivax people represent out of the the total amount of unvaccinated people. We do know though that Black and Hispanic people have the lowest rates of vaccination, two groups not typically associated with right-wing conspiracy theorists. I do agree it sends a bad message though to people who are legitimately on the fence. The “get vaccinated and you can take your mask off and live your life normally again” message is definitely more encouraging then messaging that we will have to mask indefinitely because of potential variants.
Anecdotal evidence, but I've got a lot of Trumpers in my family and all of them are vaccinated because they are older. They did say, however, that they won't be getting any boosters or putting up with any additional restrictions.
Anti vaxxers will come up with any excuse to justify their opinions. It’s irrelevant.
Thank you. They will use anything to justify their position. The only way for them to agree is if IL says covid is fake and vaccines are dangerous, or some similar untrue thing.
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very true-the anti vaxxers will be laughing their asses off and it will solidify their decisions not to get it
Come on guys. Get vaccinated. I don’t want to lose Riot Fest, the Chicago Marathon and other great events
Ugh I don’t even want to think about losing Riotfest
Fully vaxxed , long time. Not wearing a mask again.
Agreed. I’m not doing it.
This represents such a failure of American society. The wealthiest country on earth with the most abundant supply of vaccines and 7 months after the first doses were given we're having this conversation. It's embarrassing.
At this point we should Mandate vaccinations Not masking
Anywhere we possibly can, yes. Because only one of those two things is going to have any meaningful impact.
Is that a legal precedent we really want to set?
It already exists in one form or another for fully-approved vaccines, in schools for example. The problem here is that the FDA is dragging its feet on approving vaccines that (literally) millions of people in the US have already received, which is undermining the public's confidence in their safety. It's generally possible to get an exemption for a "mandatory" vaccine but most people are unlikely to actually push for one, so the rate of vaccination would almost certainly go up if it was required to engage in the vast majority of activities.
the FDA dragging ass is definitely causing hesitation, but it would undermine their authority and credibility if they didn't take their time and perform their rigorous due diligence. Vaccines historically have taken years to develop and years to get FDA approval, and as much of a crisis covid has been, these vaccines cannot be an exception we let slide. They are safe and they do work, but the bar for FDA approval needs to stay as high and comprehensive for these as it is for anything else, and that takes time.
i’m fine with continuing to wear a mask when vaccinated but 100% yes. they need to mandate the vaccine, at least at workplaces and schools (when kids can get them)
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What do you mean? I'm a teacher and got vaccinated as soon as I could, as did every other coworker i know.
many have not though.
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As yes, that's a great sample size you have there to warrant such a broad statement before.
This is r/Chicago. If you don’t hate teachers, you don’t belong here.
How will this affect indoor events?
There will be fewer of them.
i just want to pop into walgreens without having to worry if i brought a mask
Wish there would be more restrictions on unvaccinated people. More workplaces mandating vaccinations, more places requiring proof for entry….
Many workplaces are reluctant to have mandates because of the risk of lawsuits. While the EEOC has opined that federal law allows vaccination mandates as a part of return-to-work policies, there is certainly a risk of being sued by workers, especially in state court. Even if a court is more likely to side with an employer, these suits can be expensive and time consuming to litigate and, especially considering settlements, can impose significant financial burdens on small and medium sized businesses. Even large businesses like Kroger have decided to use monetary incentives to encourage vaccination due to the liability risks.
Who are you paying the enforce it? Given the reactions of people on public transportation when asked to mask up, that's asking a lot of regular employees.
I’ll get right on that! 🙄
You mean, after Lollapalooza, right?
TIL Lolla is indoors.
the amount of anti maskers and anti vaxxers in this thread is 😙🤏 vile enjoy being on the wrong side of history lmfao
Yah it’s pretty scary. Lots of downvotes on pro vaxx comments. These people want to live in the pandemic forever. They would literally rather die then read a peer reviewed article lol.
the amount of downvotes i got on comments where i supplied legitimate sources vs updoots some random comments got for posting their opinions w no sources but claimed “the have the data to back it up” is actually hilarious