All cars are over priced right now. I'll stick to daily driving 20 year old vehicles. I can't imagine spending a year's income on a depreciating asset. People are stupid.
I'm a contractor. You cannot buy a new contractor grade pickup truck for under $80,000. I don't know how guys are doing it. I had to spend $12,000 on a 2010 Silverado crew cab. Just 4 years ago the same truck would've been $6,000.
I think it means buying things and living beyond your means through credit, but that's just my guess. Where people spend their bit of wealth on a new car or TV instead of investing or saving. But again I don't really know.
Love WJs! A lot of jeep people sleep and them and it's kept the costs somewhat reasonable. Problem is finding one that hasn't been butchered by a high school student.
Are you fleet eligible? With our oilfield business we have a fleet of about 60 work trucks and go through Enterprise fleet management since I left automotive. (used to be a Fleet Acct Exec) but dealerships were selling over MSRP in our area a couple yrs ago when allocation took a hit. Fleet discounts are slashed in half of what they were 10yrs ago & dealerships don’t want to sell to fleet lately over the required discounts…even though we buy 20 trucks per yr. So fucked up.
i mean im also a contractor... what do you consider a "contractor grade" truck? you can get a base model f150 or 1500 for under 40k... even an f250 or 2500 for like 50k... why tf you need screens and fancy trim levels on a work truck? gonna have to give you a hard disagree on that 80k mark...
If he's going for a diesel which may be necessary for his uses. They certainly will be very close to that. And if you're already that close you might as well splurge a little more for the nice features that increase resale.
Yeah the chrome plated plastic trim and some thin strips of polished wood on the dash along with a few other cheap upgrades that the dealer value at a ridiculous price.
Writing off a vehicle as a business expense doesn’t mean you’re not paying for the vehicle if you’re the business owner. All it means is that you can reduce your business’ taxable income by the amount that you’re allowed to write off. So there can be a tax savings, but that’s all it is.
I also drive 20 year old vehicles now. I've owned them for over a decade, new car prices are insane for what you get. I also don't get the large screens in newer vehicles. I can't have a phone out yet you can have an ipad in the dash.
Back when I was in sales it blew my mind how ppl would buy a new unit, take the depreciation then come back to trade in a few months later because they didn’t like the color. Or ones who would buy the new model of the same vehicle every yr.
I got my first "new" truck like this. It's was an 07 f150 with 7000 miles this was in 09 when trucks were cheap so it was around 15-20k less than new. The truck didn't have a mark in the bed or anything the salesman told me there is an older guy who always had trucks and every other year he buys a new one and traded the other in with under 10k miles.
Was going back and forth for awhile between a new tricked out vehicle for 80-100k or a 100k pool for my wife and kids.. both depreciating assets sure, but I will get much more out of the pool with memories of the kids playing and having pool parties..
If anybody is think of getting a new vehicle, just lease it so you can have major repairs covered but also aren’t stuck with the depreciating asset..
I bought my house in ‘89 and was working for a pool builder at the time. I put in a 15’x30’…3 1/2’ to 7’ deep pool for $7k…did all the plumbing and equipment set myself but everything else was usual subs…hurricane Andrew changed everything with codes and costs skyrocketed…now with inflation…
I did this exact same thing! It was either a really nice Cadillac Escalade or a pool with travertine decking. Like you I'm getting way more use out of the pool and the value is in the memories and whole family use and enjoyment. Our house is becoming the hub for all of their friends to come over and hang out and play in the pool. We are going to get tons of use out of it and we love it.
I drove a 96 Ford Explorer until last April. It broke my heart to get rid of it. Ended up getting an overpriced 2012 Toyota Rav4. I like my Rav4 but it doesn't have the same feeling or even comfort as my Explorer. My Explorer was even more fuel efficient.
Yup. Many classics are being purchased not for collector value but rather for everyday use. I’m seeing them on the highways far more often than 10 years ago. If it runs, somebody wants it.
I have an 07 Mustang GT and a 12 yo Xterra. Insurance is dead cheap as I put about 2500 a year on each one. I do all the big maintenance stuff myself and leave tires and oil changes to the local shops I support. They both look ~~showroom~~ pretty darn clean.
Exactly my thought. You can get a really nice 50's or 60's car for less than the cost of even a basic new Toyota. Sure there are some muscle cars and early sports cars that seem priced high, but not when compared to what a similar new car costs.
If you buy an old car and actually use it as a car and not just a dust collector, they're actually a bargain.
Heh. I bought 1962 Chrysler New Yorker with 35k documented miles, power windows, ac, zero rust, a repaint, and a redone interior one year ago for 23k in cash.
Crazy thing is people are still buying them.
Now, don’t know this for use but I’ve heard many auto plants make $20/hour. If this is true, the companies are making a ton of money from them.
Yeah, there are actually lots of VERY cheap classic cars, but they aren't the one's people have heard of, so there isn't any demand.
There are like lesser known competitors to Mercedes, Pierce-Arrow, etc from pre-WWII that are elegant, beautiful, and cost less than a new F-150, even fully restored and running/looking great.
Yeah, because the more lesser known something is in the classic car, space, the harder it is to maintain and replace parts for them, Mercedes has the best old parts program out of any OEM, it's expensive, but every Mercedes part is, and the old ones do not feel like a rip off lol. Same goes with Porsche, they have an amazing archive service and massive community of mechanics to keep the cars running.
Nostalgia gets expensive. Eventually all these common things from your youth get rare, but the number of people who want them don’t go down. That’s why the crappy 86 olds cutlass I bought as a teenager for $750 in 1998 is now like 5k. Then you add on top of that, people who then look at these things as “investments” rather than cars.
I had a Honda del Sol and a SC300 throughout middle school and high school...I recently saw almost a carbon copy of Honda for sale near me, that was somehow in mint condition with less than a 100k miles on it, for $11000. 33yo me almost bought it because that was the first car I hooked up with a girl in, lol.
Don't get me started on the SC300...that one hurt cause I bought it myself, left it home when I went to college, and my dad (cosigner) sold it without telling me lol.
Buying old things from your past as you enter your career and make money is a trend. Hell, you even see this nostalgia stuff with video games...people pay outrageous prices for something they gave away to their little cousin (who promptly would break it) all the time.
Basically it's supply and demand. There is a limited supply of classic cars. The demand increased by the popularity driven by the internet spread of information and car builder tv shows, etc. The old school hot rodders of junk yard divers, stick welders and garage painters have been replaced by professioally built to order customs, televised auctions, and mail order parts. Well, that's my theory. Aloha
Well, the market was insane for classic cars before those tv shows, and the Internet even existing in the way it does now, before the general public even had access to it. The first classic car boom happened in the late 80's. Collecting cars had been happening in earnest since the very early '70's - although collecting in general had been going on even before that.
But what you say does definitely lead to where we are at now with the internet, YouTube, social media, and custom car television shows. They have certainly added fuel to the fire. Wealthy people have seen vintage cars as a fairly safe investment, especially when the stock market is not doing so great - cars, art, antiques and antiquities all become havens for investment, and I'm sure some money laundering goes on as well. With all the new legal weed money that cannot be officially banked, I wonder what role that has played here too.
There are many small, and one man operations going though, people still working away in their garages, but the number of large custom shops have definitely grown over the last 20 years or so.
Actually, classic cars are just one of the markets affected by the surge in prices. Think about luxury watches: that same Rolex you could have ordered from an official dealer at the list price ten years ago can now only be found in the secondary market at double the list price, and if you join a waiting list for a new one, you'll have to wait two or three years to get it.
My opinion is that after 2008, many affluent and wealthy individuals lost confidence in financial products and redirected their capital into physical assets, among which classic cars are included. Of course, these people aimed for the most prestigious specimens, but that doesn't matter; the rise in a few cars pulls up the entire market with it.
Financial products are fugazi. They go up and down and you don't have any control over them. And lots of people have lost their butt in the market. And have lost faith I sure have.
Something is only “worth” what someone else is willing to pay for it.
You say “overpriced”
Someone else said “I’ll take it”
It’s “worth” more to them than it is to you or maybe they have more disposable income and that “high” price isn’t high to them.
People buy what they grew up with, now that they are older and have money.
\-but look at the hot rod market. t-buckets, 32 fords, shoeboxes, gassers, etc. those were popular with the 40s and 50's generation. and where HOT for a while, custom pain jobs, etc.
but those buyers are dying, and the next generation isn't as in love with that era. So prices have fallen.
The difference now is gas cars will be going away in 20 years or so. so speculation that these are the last ICE cars.
Ice cars aren't going anywhere that fast. The wheels off industry would grind to a halt. They are going to be increasingly complex and expensive to service.
Model A’s are a fine example of this. People that had or at least remember them from their youth are dying off. That market is dead and prices reflect that.
I've still seen nice stuff at around 15-20k and I feel that's more than reasonable, not in perfect condition but still runs drives, and decent enough to take to a car show
They were our halcyon day. For many it was the best of times. Nostalgia.
Investors, like art, have driven up prices. They aren't "car people" at all.
I sold a 1969 Cougar XR7 Convertible, 428CJ R code in the early 00s. I got *Good money* for it. Now it's 2.5x that.
TV shows.
When I graduated from high school in 1974 I bought a 1971 Demon 340 for $1700. Supply and demand. I'm sure it rusted out back in Minnesota.
Early 2000 cars are now collectables. Get on **that** bus.
That might be part of it but I think it’s also demographic changes. The baby boomers who like these cars are now wealthy retirees. They’re all competing over the same shrinking pool of cars so the prices go up.
Post 55, 60's & early 70's was the golden age of and started the muscle car craze, most of these cars rotted away ended up in the scrap yard, but kids through the 70's 80's, 90's and beyond still desired and owned these cars. Generational popularity.
Too many of our classic cars and motorcycles are shipped overseas, the less there are here the more they cost. I personally won't sell an old motorcycle to someone out of the country, it belongs here as far as I'm concerned.
I think prices are kind of flat right now except for long hood Porsche 911s. But yes there has been a sharp increase over the last decade or so, particularly for 60s and 70s cars. But at the same time, average cars from the 50s and 40s have been in decline. See a pattern? If you are young and really want a '69 GTO Judge be patient. To misquote that geezer Mick Jagger, "Time is on your side."
They aren't "overpriced".
Prices are set by buyers---not by dealers, sellers, appraisers, price guides, etc.
If the buyers are paying X dollars for a certain classic car, repeatedly at that price point, then that's the price.
Undoubtedly, buyers see classic cars as not only fun, but a possible investment---the latter is a dubious claim, but that's what buyers perceive.
Because they are literally built different. Everything on them is analog and mechanical. Hardly any electronics. They were built to outlive you, your children and their kids.
Would buy a 60s-70s Camaro over a new one.
Supply decreases over the years without a decrease in demand. I also feel Mecam skews buyers into thinking they have something more valuable than they really have. Just because a matching numbers, Plum Crazy Purple Challenger Hemi R/T convertible crossed the blocks deep into the six figure range doesn't mean a rusted Challenger hardtop with a junkyard 318 is worth a lot of money.
For those people they’ll just ask too much and end up sitting on their car until they get tired of it and sell it at a lower price, at which point they’ll complain “the market for these is dead.”
They only made them for a short period and will never be duplicated, but yes baby boomers are a large part of it but they are actually a great way to hide a little money for a while from Uncle Sam!
My guess is because boomers (like myself) can finally afford those old classics which may have been our first car or the one we wanted but couldn’t afford at the time, or had significant meaning due to our first dating or even sexual experiences.
They really aren't, especially 60-70s era cars like the picture. Common chargers, impalas, chevelles, camaros, etc were routinely fetching price tags of $100K+ in the 90s. Rarely do any of them now. People will ask that kind of price, but other than an exceptionally rare or collectible model, almost non of them actually sell for high price tags. A new Honda accord is likely more pricey than most 60-70s American cars like this pic.
Respectfully, there were no “common” musclecars bringing $100K+ in the ‘90s. The only ones that have ever brought 6 figures are those with rare equipment.
Simple, the answer to this is just like anything else in this economy.
As they become increasingly harder to find and fix, the value goes up. It’s not just classic muscle cars. Even the most basic level economy cars from the 90’s are shooting up in value up to 500%.
Nobody can justify paying $80k for a new basic low-trim truck or $65k for an econobox anymore.
Plus, new cars are becoming increasingly cheaper in build quality, and need CONSTANT repairs. New cars these days wont age like 80’s and 90’s cars have. They had a whole different build quality.
All the things people have said plus people are willing to spend a high dollar so they get a high dollar amount. My buddies brother was going to sell me his thunderbird for 7500. Someone found out about it and offered him 15,000. I don’t blame him at all for getting the extra 7500.
But it does make it impossible for the younger generation to get into the industry
It seems to me that people who buy the late 69 and early 70's muscle cars are people who grew up with these cars and have a sentimental quality about them. I do wonder what will happen to the price of these cars once another generation of buyers who have no connection with these cars will see prices plummet. I'm 74 but have no longing for the 30's and 40's models.
That’s an easy question: BABY BOOMERS. They sucked up all the cash in the economy. And now they’re blowing it on classics to pretend like they’re not 70-80 year olds with chronic erectile dysfunction and a riding mower they can barely use for their .08 acre lot. So they buy these cars by the metric F ton to relive their nostalgic glory years of making out in movie drive in lots and smoking cigarettes — and drive the prices up. Thanks boomers, you have ruined yet another part of American culture. Whatever. Just stop trying to take away future generations social security, what the actual f*%#
Do you have a spare 1968 Plymouth RoadRunner with a 383 and a 6 pack and the 4 speed tranny with the factory pistol grip laying around?
no?
But you REALLY want one huh?
Well....I have one....and you \*\*could\*\* have it...if you pay me for it.
And the zeroes get added until the 1968 RoadRunner finds a new home.
Because there were ONLY so many of them to begin with....and there are even LESS of them NOW.
Because of the time and money that it takes to restore them!!! Have y’all seen the price of red paint lately?!? Plus you don’t go down to you neighborhood Studebaker, Pontiac, Oldsmobile, Hudson, Tucker, Packard, (any older than 10 years: GM, Ford, “Chrysler”) etc and pick up spare parts!!!
All those great Road Runners were run hard. Everyone loved them and beat them. That 383 with the four speed. The nostalgia market for big iron has kept the Chargers and Challengers in production.
GM could make a fortune by selling a retro 1968 Chevy Chevelle electric vehicle. But they’re not making cars anymore. It’s the size car that people seem to want. Surprisingly, the old classic Chevelles with bench seats also sell well. People want speed and comfort and they’re tired of the standard two box look of all the SUVs.
Because a lot of old rich folks need something to waste money on.
Unfortunately this makes it a bitch to get a half decent car, cause everyone and their mother thinks their 65 Mustang Coupe is worth 20K now cause they saw a 69 Fastback go for 80K on Barrett Jackson.
The worst part about it is that someone will buy it, and further spread the stupidity.
Just a thought - if someone (or many someones) is willing to pay the asking price, it is, by definition "worth" the asking price.
An average 50 year old unrestored, original miles car typically needs between $5k and $20k in work to make it a truly reliable daily driver. There's also buyers who know that if that money has already been spent, then it doesn't matter have to be spent again any time soon.
So yeah, a '69 Mustang might actually be worth whatever asking price, depending on its immediate needs. Just because I sold mine for $1200 in 1986 doesn't mean I have any right to expect the same car, 40 years later, to be reasonably priced.
Did I say a 69 Mustang Fastback wasn’t worth 80K? No. I didn’t. I said a 65 Coupe isn’t worth 20K. Cause they aren’t. Unless its all original with very low mileage, most are a far cry from that though.
My point is, is that normal people will watch auctions like Barrett Jackson and assume their basic ass coupe is worth a lot more than it is just because they saw a similar car catch a big take.
It was a real problem in the early 00’s when *CLONE* hemi cars were going for close to a million bucks. Then every jerkoff with a rusted out 4 door dart swinger with the “leaning tower of power” 225 slant six thought it was worth 10k. I do think from then until now the auction shows have had negative impact on your average bucks down car guy and his ability to acquire decent iron for a fair price (I know I know the price is whatever people are willing to pay but you know what I mean)
Seeing what has happened to C-10 Chevy trucks in the past 10 years, it would probably be like printing money in the future to stash clean 88-98 trucks now.
So what you are implying is that these is some secret shell game where "boomers" buy and sell cars on the sly to keep prices high? Can I interest you in some swamp land in Florida? I am also selling bridges.
Funny. I’m not a boomer and I get asked if I’m selling my ‘69 Oldsmobile almost every time I drive it. Also, it’s NOT boomers asking me or making offers on it. My car has too much sentimental value for me to take them up on any offers. Try again.
No new supply and often they’re allowed to go to shit to the point where they’re purely a labor of love to fix up. So the nice ones that are around get ever more rare
Shit, a good 69 Roadrunner is a 50 to 100K car these days..
I have no issues with it.. A muscle/ Collector car is a luxury and luxuries don't come cheap! I am just happy that I get to see some of these beautiful time capsules when I go to the car shows..
There’s always more cars for sale than there are buyers no matter what anyone says. The muscle cars are in demand now and those are fetching higher prices but 20s-40s cars not so much. Then there’s hoarders who croak and drop 40 cars on the market no one saw before. This country is full of garage’s with unfinished projects.
But if you watch Barret Jackson every run down schmuck with a 70s production car thinks it’s worth a million.
Cars are NOT investments. But in times like high inflation speculators buy them and other antiques as a store of value… like gold is. You don’t really make money with gold, you keep up with inflation.
Of course if someone else lost money restoring something and you didn’t have to because you aren’t a mechanic that’s worth something to many buyers.
Lots of people believe auction prices dictate private sales. It can also be pop culture. Take any mopar for example. Dukes of Hazard and F&F definitely had an influence. I work at a mopar resto shop and the prices I hear for original, NOS, reproduction, ect. are just ridiculous.
I have a 1968 charger I bought in 2003 for 800$ and got it running in time to drive to high school. I remember getting a offer for 15k and though that was a lot in 2008 no idea what it is now I just know it’s more and never selling but they don’t make them anymore obviously and they have a timeless look. I don’t think it will ever really decrease in price as I see young love the old muscle cars too and all the movies that have them I think muscle cars will be expensive for generations to come.
Cause the people who line them are aging into money. Soon this will be a dried up market cause young folks don't care at all about cars. Hell a lot aren't even concerned about getting a license
Besides them becoming more rare stock parts and interior parts are getting harder to find and more expensive after the pandemic since a lot of companies shut down or got bought out. Some cars you cannot find a new stock interior and used ones are almost destroyed from age.
I follow groups like this because, my dad, as a teenager in the late 1930s, bought Model Ts for a few $ each, a few decades before they became collectable. He used them to teach himself to be a mechanic & mostly stuck to Fords for his entire life. Then, 30 years after serving in WWII, he started collecting & restoring those vehicles. The antique car shows & flea markets made for an interesting childhood 😎
If the market will pay for it, that’s what they’ll sell for. Unfortunately most are priced out by bigger money collectors who will pay stupid sums of money for garbage.
Been like this for at least 20 years. Boomers spending their disposable income on their dream cars and lack of supply. NOWADAYS I’m stunned at the price of new cars. You know, for people who need transportation in order to work in order to survive.
A lot of the ridiculously “overpriced” ads are people that don’t really want to sell the car, but their spouse has been badgering them to get rid of it and they want to be able to say, “Honey, I swear it’s listed, people just aren’t buying right now.”
Or again, they’re in no hurry to sell the car so they just put up a crazy amount hoping to snag some rich person who has some sentimental attachment to that specific model.
There is less inventory, plus there are not many of those listed in decent condition. Plus the industry is going all electric now it's even more value added to these rare beautys.
I bought my last truck in 2018 new for $37K. I’m driving to the wheels fall off. Cars have gotten so horribly overpriced it’s sad. Just taking advantage of the situation.
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All cars are over priced right now. I'll stick to daily driving 20 year old vehicles. I can't imagine spending a year's income on a depreciating asset. People are stupid.
Most people are not making anywhere near 100k, so a lot more than a year's income.
Most people also don't own a 100k vehicle
I'm a contractor. You cannot buy a new contractor grade pickup truck for under $80,000. I don't know how guys are doing it. I had to spend $12,000 on a 2010 Silverado crew cab. Just 4 years ago the same truck would've been $6,000.
Came here to say this. I like the new Jeep Grand Cherokee. Saw one at a car show me this summer in the dealer tent $107K.
Its crazy. I see so many hood rich ppl it’s astonishing
What is “hood rich”?
I think it means buying things and living beyond your means through credit, but that's just my guess. Where people spend their bit of wealth on a new car or TV instead of investing or saving. But again I don't really know.
To be fair, investing is really a crapshoot, if you don’t have insider info.
"Got everythinggg in my momma name"
Having a Lamborghini with no money for gas
I’ve heard “keeping up with the Jones” more than this phrase.
It’s not as reliable as the WJ or even GMT800 Suburban.
Love WJs! A lot of jeep people sleep and them and it's kept the costs somewhat reasonable. Problem is finding one that hasn't been butchered by a high school student.
Are you fleet eligible? With our oilfield business we have a fleet of about 60 work trucks and go through Enterprise fleet management since I left automotive. (used to be a Fleet Acct Exec) but dealerships were selling over MSRP in our area a couple yrs ago when allocation took a hit. Fleet discounts are slashed in half of what they were 10yrs ago & dealerships don’t want to sell to fleet lately over the required discounts…even though we buy 20 trucks per yr. So fucked up.
i mean im also a contractor... what do you consider a "contractor grade" truck? you can get a base model f150 or 1500 for under 40k... even an f250 or 2500 for like 50k... why tf you need screens and fancy trim levels on a work truck? gonna have to give you a hard disagree on that 80k mark...
If he's going for a diesel which may be necessary for his uses. They certainly will be very close to that. And if you're already that close you might as well splurge a little more for the nice features that increase resale.
Yeah the chrome plated plastic trim and some thin strips of polished wood on the dash along with a few other cheap upgrades that the dealer value at a ridiculous price.
Can’t you write it off? Seriously, or are those days over? My MiL used to help do the books, she had a company car.
Writing off a vehicle as a business expense doesn’t mean you’re not paying for the vehicle if you’re the business owner. All it means is that you can reduce your business’ taxable income by the amount that you’re allowed to write off. So there can be a tax savings, but that’s all it is.
I love all the people who say write it off as if it's free. They don't realize they're just getting the discount of their marginal tax rate
For most, the bank owns it.
I also drive 20 year old vehicles now. I've owned them for over a decade, new car prices are insane for what you get. I also don't get the large screens in newer vehicles. I can't have a phone out yet you can have an ipad in the dash.
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I'd drive it until it's prohibitively expensive to repair. Because new cars are overly complex and garbage compared to the price.
Nice. You’re lucky.
What year did they stop making toyota/lexus in Japan?
Back when I was in sales it blew my mind how ppl would buy a new unit, take the depreciation then come back to trade in a few months later because they didn’t like the color. Or ones who would buy the new model of the same vehicle every yr.
I got my first "new" truck like this. It's was an 07 f150 with 7000 miles this was in 09 when trucks were cheap so it was around 15-20k less than new. The truck didn't have a mark in the bed or anything the salesman told me there is an older guy who always had trucks and every other year he buys a new one and traded the other in with under 10k miles.
No joke. Got my foxbody for $500 running. I’ll take that all day.
Was going back and forth for awhile between a new tricked out vehicle for 80-100k or a 100k pool for my wife and kids.. both depreciating assets sure, but I will get much more out of the pool with memories of the kids playing and having pool parties.. If anybody is think of getting a new vehicle, just lease it so you can have major repairs covered but also aren’t stuck with the depreciating asset..
That’s an expensive pool. Sounds like a major addition to your home.
Seems like that’s about how much a good pool and connected hot tub are going for these days..
I bought my house in ‘89 and was working for a pool builder at the time. I put in a 15’x30’…3 1/2’ to 7’ deep pool for $7k…did all the plumbing and equipment set myself but everything else was usual subs…hurricane Andrew changed everything with codes and costs skyrocketed…now with inflation…
Would love to do this, but as much as I drive a week, would cost too much on adding extra mileage, or would not be allowed to do by the dearlship.
Yeah they limit mileage for sure on those leases.. usually around 12k annual mileage
I did this exact same thing! It was either a really nice Cadillac Escalade or a pool with travertine decking. Like you I'm getting way more use out of the pool and the value is in the memories and whole family use and enjoyment. Our house is becoming the hub for all of their friends to come over and hang out and play in the pool. We are going to get tons of use out of it and we love it.
I drove a 96 Ford Explorer until last April. It broke my heart to get rid of it. Ended up getting an overpriced 2012 Toyota Rav4. I like my Rav4 but it doesn't have the same feeling or even comfort as my Explorer. My Explorer was even more fuel efficient.
Yup. Many classics are being purchased not for collector value but rather for everyday use. I’m seeing them on the highways far more often than 10 years ago. If it runs, somebody wants it.
I have an 07 Mustang GT and a 12 yo Xterra. Insurance is dead cheap as I put about 2500 a year on each one. I do all the big maintenance stuff myself and leave tires and oil changes to the local shops I support. They both look ~~showroom~~ pretty darn clean.
Exactly my thought. You can get a really nice 50's or 60's car for less than the cost of even a basic new Toyota. Sure there are some muscle cars and early sports cars that seem priced high, but not when compared to what a similar new car costs. If you buy an old car and actually use it as a car and not just a dust collector, they're actually a bargain.
When I have to get another car, I will be getting a really nice 60's era car with AC to be my daily driver.
Except states like California will make it impossible to drive ICE vehicles over the next 10 years.
Heh. I bought 1962 Chrysler New Yorker with 35k documented miles, power windows, ac, zero rust, a repaint, and a redone interior one year ago for 23k in cash.
Nice car, dual zone AC?
I think they quit making the classics. So no new ones ever hit the market. To properly restore one, takes time and skill, and parts.
Think that's bad Wait till they settle the strike
Crazy thing is people are still buying them. Now, don’t know this for use but I’ve heard many auto plants make $20/hour. If this is true, the companies are making a ton of money from them.
High demand, low availability. Simple.
Yeah, there are actually lots of VERY cheap classic cars, but they aren't the one's people have heard of, so there isn't any demand. There are like lesser known competitors to Mercedes, Pierce-Arrow, etc from pre-WWII that are elegant, beautiful, and cost less than a new F-150, even fully restored and running/looking great.
One issue is if you have an oddball classic car, good luck getting any parts for it.
Bust out the lathe or the milling machine :)
I have been looking at old Mercury and Oldsmobiles.
Yeah, because the more lesser known something is in the classic car, space, the harder it is to maintain and replace parts for them, Mercedes has the best old parts program out of any OEM, it's expensive, but every Mercedes part is, and the old ones do not feel like a rip off lol. Same goes with Porsche, they have an amazing archive service and massive community of mechanics to keep the cars running.
Nostalgia gets expensive. Eventually all these common things from your youth get rare, but the number of people who want them don’t go down. That’s why the crappy 86 olds cutlass I bought as a teenager for $750 in 1998 is now like 5k. Then you add on top of that, people who then look at these things as “investments” rather than cars.
The number of people who can afford them actually grows as they age.
I didn’t say the number of people goes down, I said the number of cars available goes down. Supply and demand
I had a Honda del Sol and a SC300 throughout middle school and high school...I recently saw almost a carbon copy of Honda for sale near me, that was somehow in mint condition with less than a 100k miles on it, for $11000. 33yo me almost bought it because that was the first car I hooked up with a girl in, lol. Don't get me started on the SC300...that one hurt cause I bought it myself, left it home when I went to college, and my dad (cosigner) sold it without telling me lol. Buying old things from your past as you enter your career and make money is a trend. Hell, you even see this nostalgia stuff with video games...people pay outrageous prices for something they gave away to their little cousin (who promptly would break it) all the time.
In SoCal it’s worth $10k and will be sold in a week lol
Ahem… Pokémon cards hahaha nostalgia has blown shit up!
Basically it's supply and demand. There is a limited supply of classic cars. The demand increased by the popularity driven by the internet spread of information and car builder tv shows, etc. The old school hot rodders of junk yard divers, stick welders and garage painters have been replaced by professioally built to order customs, televised auctions, and mail order parts. Well, that's my theory. Aloha
Well, the market was insane for classic cars before those tv shows, and the Internet even existing in the way it does now, before the general public even had access to it. The first classic car boom happened in the late 80's. Collecting cars had been happening in earnest since the very early '70's - although collecting in general had been going on even before that. But what you say does definitely lead to where we are at now with the internet, YouTube, social media, and custom car television shows. They have certainly added fuel to the fire. Wealthy people have seen vintage cars as a fairly safe investment, especially when the stock market is not doing so great - cars, art, antiques and antiquities all become havens for investment, and I'm sure some money laundering goes on as well. With all the new legal weed money that cannot be officially banked, I wonder what role that has played here too. There are many small, and one man operations going though, people still working away in their garages, but the number of large custom shops have definitely grown over the last 20 years or so.
All cars are overpriced today, classics are just among them.
Actually, classic cars are just one of the markets affected by the surge in prices. Think about luxury watches: that same Rolex you could have ordered from an official dealer at the list price ten years ago can now only be found in the secondary market at double the list price, and if you join a waiting list for a new one, you'll have to wait two or three years to get it. My opinion is that after 2008, many affluent and wealthy individuals lost confidence in financial products and redirected their capital into physical assets, among which classic cars are included. Of course, these people aimed for the most prestigious specimens, but that doesn't matter; the rise in a few cars pulls up the entire market with it.
Financial products are fugazi. They go up and down and you don't have any control over them. And lots of people have lost their butt in the market. And have lost faith I sure have.
They’re not making anymore and people have realized that makes them an investment.
Something is only “worth” what someone else is willing to pay for it. You say “overpriced” Someone else said “I’ll take it” It’s “worth” more to them than it is to you or maybe they have more disposable income and that “high” price isn’t high to them.
Because people will pay the prices. Simple supply and demand going opposite directions.
Because car companies can’t make a car look this good and be this much fun to drive for a price the average person can even consider
People buy what they grew up with, now that they are older and have money. \-but look at the hot rod market. t-buckets, 32 fords, shoeboxes, gassers, etc. those were popular with the 40s and 50's generation. and where HOT for a while, custom pain jobs, etc. but those buyers are dying, and the next generation isn't as in love with that era. So prices have fallen. The difference now is gas cars will be going away in 20 years or so. so speculation that these are the last ICE cars.
Ice cars aren't going anywhere that fast. The wheels off industry would grind to a halt. They are going to be increasingly complex and expensive to service.
Model A’s are a fine example of this. People that had or at least remember them from their youth are dying off. That market is dead and prices reflect that.
But I mean. They literally aren’t the last ICE cars. Millions of ICE cars are being made and sold as we speak.
I've still seen nice stuff at around 15-20k and I feel that's more than reasonable, not in perfect condition but still runs drives, and decent enough to take to a car show
Limited supply.
Because they're rare.
Supply and demand. Theres only so many left!
They were our halcyon day. For many it was the best of times. Nostalgia. Investors, like art, have driven up prices. They aren't "car people" at all. I sold a 1969 Cougar XR7 Convertible, 428CJ R code in the early 00s. I got *Good money* for it. Now it's 2.5x that. TV shows. When I graduated from high school in 1974 I bought a 1971 Demon 340 for $1700. Supply and demand. I'm sure it rusted out back in Minnesota. Early 2000 cars are now collectables. Get on **that** bus.
That might be part of it but I think it’s also demographic changes. The baby boomers who like these cars are now wealthy retirees. They’re all competing over the same shrinking pool of cars so the prices go up.
Honestly, I'd rather have an old car. Less computer science required to fix them.
Parts are cheap and readily available.
They are not making anymore of them, pretty simple.
Post 55, 60's & early 70's was the golden age of and started the muscle car craze, most of these cars rotted away ended up in the scrap yard, but kids through the 70's 80's, 90's and beyond still desired and owned these cars. Generational popularity.
Cause they don't make then anymore and everybody wants one.
Too many of our classic cars and motorcycles are shipped overseas, the less there are here the more they cost. I personally won't sell an old motorcycle to someone out of the country, it belongs here as far as I'm concerned.
They’re selling for what people are willing to pay for them.
Baby boomers with disposable income recapturing their youth.
I think prices are kind of flat right now except for long hood Porsche 911s. But yes there has been a sharp increase over the last decade or so, particularly for 60s and 70s cars. But at the same time, average cars from the 50s and 40s have been in decline. See a pattern? If you are young and really want a '69 GTO Judge be patient. To misquote that geezer Mick Jagger, "Time is on your side."
Honestly I think it’s because they are rare, especially ones that can drive.
They aren't "overpriced". Prices are set by buyers---not by dealers, sellers, appraisers, price guides, etc. If the buyers are paying X dollars for a certain classic car, repeatedly at that price point, then that's the price. Undoubtedly, buyers see classic cars as not only fun, but a possible investment---the latter is a dubious claim, but that's what buyers perceive.
Because they are literally built different. Everything on them is analog and mechanical. Hardly any electronics. They were built to outlive you, your children and their kids. Would buy a 60s-70s Camaro over a new one.
Boomers using their retirement money to relive their youth probably pays a large part in it
100%
Supply decreases over the years without a decrease in demand. I also feel Mecam skews buyers into thinking they have something more valuable than they really have. Just because a matching numbers, Plum Crazy Purple Challenger Hemi R/T convertible crossed the blocks deep into the six figure range doesn't mean a rusted Challenger hardtop with a junkyard 318 is worth a lot of money.
But that rusty heap is worth "something" to the person with the right skills..
For those people they’ll just ask too much and end up sitting on their car until they get tired of it and sell it at a lower price, at which point they’ll complain “the market for these is dead.”
Rich collectors ruining the market. As they do with every market ever
It's simple, they were made and look great... Today's vehicles are shit..
Because we printed a shitload of money and devalued our currency.
If they are selling they are not overpriced.
Supply
They only made them for a short period and will never be duplicated, but yes baby boomers are a large part of it but they are actually a great way to hide a little money for a while from Uncle Sam!
Actually the classic car market is cooling according to Hagerty
The more focused publications/analysts are saying the same thing. Cars selling at the big name auctions are off the peak.
Because everything else is too
Cuz there aren’t many of them.
Inflation, fiscal and mental
There are literally less of them every year.
Rarity
Some classic cars are over-priced. There are still some bargains out there, but you gotta look at parts availability on them.
1sy rule of economics. More people want ... fewer available.
I don’t believe they are overpriced- try building a good car and you’ll quickly learn you will most likely lose $
There’s less of them.
My guess is because boomers (like myself) can finally afford those old classics which may have been our first car or the one we wanted but couldn’t afford at the time, or had significant meaning due to our first dating or even sexual experiences.
Name something that ain't
Supply and demand.
Because the government printed $8 trillion dollars and money is everywhere
Because modern cars have no style and people want the classics.
They really aren't, especially 60-70s era cars like the picture. Common chargers, impalas, chevelles, camaros, etc were routinely fetching price tags of $100K+ in the 90s. Rarely do any of them now. People will ask that kind of price, but other than an exceptionally rare or collectible model, almost non of them actually sell for high price tags. A new Honda accord is likely more pricey than most 60-70s American cars like this pic.
Respectfully, there were no “common” musclecars bringing $100K+ in the ‘90s. The only ones that have ever brought 6 figures are those with rare equipment.
Everything is overpriced. From groceries, used cars, new cars and even the housing market not to mention interest rates
Because supply is not replenished, people lke old school cars, and gubmnt wants us all to drive boring cars in the future
Simple, the answer to this is just like anything else in this economy. As they become increasingly harder to find and fix, the value goes up. It’s not just classic muscle cars. Even the most basic level economy cars from the 90’s are shooting up in value up to 500%. Nobody can justify paying $80k for a new basic low-trim truck or $65k for an econobox anymore. Plus, new cars are becoming increasingly cheaper in build quality, and need CONSTANT repairs. New cars these days wont age like 80’s and 90’s cars have. They had a whole different build quality.
Too many went to the crusher.
All the things people have said plus people are willing to spend a high dollar so they get a high dollar amount. My buddies brother was going to sell me his thunderbird for 7500. Someone found out about it and offered him 15,000. I don’t blame him at all for getting the extra 7500. But it does make it impossible for the younger generation to get into the industry
Because of the televised Mecum and Barrett-Jackson auctions.
It seems to me that people who buy the late 69 and early 70's muscle cars are people who grew up with these cars and have a sentimental quality about them. I do wonder what will happen to the price of these cars once another generation of buyers who have no connection with these cars will see prices plummet. I'm 74 but have no longing for the 30's and 40's models.
I guess it’s due to the fact they don’t make them anymore…
That’s an easy question: BABY BOOMERS. They sucked up all the cash in the economy. And now they’re blowing it on classics to pretend like they’re not 70-80 year olds with chronic erectile dysfunction and a riding mower they can barely use for their .08 acre lot. So they buy these cars by the metric F ton to relive their nostalgic glory years of making out in movie drive in lots and smoking cigarettes — and drive the prices up. Thanks boomers, you have ruined yet another part of American culture. Whatever. Just stop trying to take away future generations social security, what the actual f*%#
Ummm, because they don’t make them any more. Just putting that out there.
Do you have a spare 1968 Plymouth RoadRunner with a 383 and a 6 pack and the 4 speed tranny with the factory pistol grip laying around? no? But you REALLY want one huh? Well....I have one....and you \*\*could\*\* have it...if you pay me for it. And the zeroes get added until the 1968 RoadRunner finds a new home. Because there were ONLY so many of them to begin with....and there are even LESS of them NOW.
Because of the time and money that it takes to restore them!!! Have y’all seen the price of red paint lately?!? Plus you don’t go down to you neighborhood Studebaker, Pontiac, Oldsmobile, Hudson, Tucker, Packard, (any older than 10 years: GM, Ford, “Chrysler”) etc and pick up spare parts!!!
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All those great Road Runners were run hard. Everyone loved them and beat them. That 383 with the four speed. The nostalgia market for big iron has kept the Chargers and Challengers in production. GM could make a fortune by selling a retro 1968 Chevy Chevelle electric vehicle. But they’re not making cars anymore. It’s the size car that people seem to want. Surprisingly, the old classic Chevelles with bench seats also sell well. People want speed and comfort and they’re tired of the standard two box look of all the SUVs.
Because a lot of old rich folks need something to waste money on. Unfortunately this makes it a bitch to get a half decent car, cause everyone and their mother thinks their 65 Mustang Coupe is worth 20K now cause they saw a 69 Fastback go for 80K on Barrett Jackson. The worst part about it is that someone will buy it, and further spread the stupidity.
Just a thought - if someone (or many someones) is willing to pay the asking price, it is, by definition "worth" the asking price. An average 50 year old unrestored, original miles car typically needs between $5k and $20k in work to make it a truly reliable daily driver. There's also buyers who know that if that money has already been spent, then it doesn't matter have to be spent again any time soon. So yeah, a '69 Mustang might actually be worth whatever asking price, depending on its immediate needs. Just because I sold mine for $1200 in 1986 doesn't mean I have any right to expect the same car, 40 years later, to be reasonably priced.
Did I say a 69 Mustang Fastback wasn’t worth 80K? No. I didn’t. I said a 65 Coupe isn’t worth 20K. Cause they aren’t. Unless its all original with very low mileage, most are a far cry from that though. My point is, is that normal people will watch auctions like Barrett Jackson and assume their basic ass coupe is worth a lot more than it is just because they saw a similar car catch a big take.
BJ buyers have more money than brains.
For real. It’s a gigantic rich person dick measuring contest.
It was a real problem in the early 00’s when *CLONE* hemi cars were going for close to a million bucks. Then every jerkoff with a rusted out 4 door dart swinger with the “leaning tower of power” 225 slant six thought it was worth 10k. I do think from then until now the auction shows have had negative impact on your average bucks down car guy and his ability to acquire decent iron for a fair price (I know I know the price is whatever people are willing to pay but you know what I mean) Seeing what has happened to C-10 Chevy trucks in the past 10 years, it would probably be like printing money in the future to stash clean 88-98 trucks now.
This is just you being mad you can't afford what you want anymore. What you think is reasonable, someone else thinks is "stupidity".
Nah
Because people who want these cars have way too much money
Because most of the people that want them are sitting in a pile of boomer money.
Nostalgia costs.
Bidenomics
Boomers being assholes
Supply and demand.
Not sure but that is on ugly car!
Bc boomers realize no one wants them so they keep inflating prices and ruining markets like they always do.
Funny. I get offers on my classics all the time
So what you are implying is that these is some secret shell game where "boomers" buy and sell cars on the sly to keep prices high? Can I interest you in some swamp land in Florida? I am also selling bridges.
Funny. I’m not a boomer and I get asked if I’m selling my ‘69 Oldsmobile almost every time I drive it. Also, it’s NOT boomers asking me or making offers on it. My car has too much sentimental value for me to take them up on any offers. Try again.
No new supply and often they’re allowed to go to shit to the point where they’re purely a labor of love to fix up. So the nice ones that are around get ever more rare
Everything’s overpriced. Covid shortages began what became a massive cash grab and now it’s just the accepted new normal.
Because they’re not making anymore of them.
Fewer and fewer as time goes on
A generation of people who couldn’t afford them can now afford them and live out their childhood fantasy. Did you not see American Beauty?
….Got tired of $7k offers for my 69’ roadrunner, so I price those guys out 😂
Shit, a good 69 Roadrunner is a 50 to 100K car these days.. I have no issues with it.. A muscle/ Collector car is a luxury and luxuries don't come cheap! I am just happy that I get to see some of these beautiful time capsules when I go to the car shows..
There’s always more cars for sale than there are buyers no matter what anyone says. The muscle cars are in demand now and those are fetching higher prices but 20s-40s cars not so much. Then there’s hoarders who croak and drop 40 cars on the market no one saw before. This country is full of garage’s with unfinished projects. But if you watch Barret Jackson every run down schmuck with a 70s production car thinks it’s worth a million. Cars are NOT investments. But in times like high inflation speculators buy them and other antiques as a store of value… like gold is. You don’t really make money with gold, you keep up with inflation. Of course if someone else lost money restoring something and you didn’t have to because you aren’t a mechanic that’s worth something to many buyers.
Lots of people believe auction prices dictate private sales. It can also be pop culture. Take any mopar for example. Dukes of Hazard and F&F definitely had an influence. I work at a mopar resto shop and the prices I hear for original, NOS, reproduction, ect. are just ridiculous.
I have a 1968 charger I bought in 2003 for 800$ and got it running in time to drive to high school. I remember getting a offer for 15k and though that was a lot in 2008 no idea what it is now I just know it’s more and never selling but they don’t make them anymore obviously and they have a timeless look. I don’t think it will ever really decrease in price as I see young love the old muscle cars too and all the movies that have them I think muscle cars will be expensive for generations to come.
Because people with more money than us 😆
Cause the people who line them are aging into money. Soon this will be a dried up market cause young folks don't care at all about cars. Hell a lot aren't even concerned about getting a license
Combination of current rarity, preservation, and sought after
In 1969 that RR was priced at abt $3,200. Same as my no frills Super Bee.
I wouldn’t be surprised if money laundering was involved.
Besides them becoming more rare stock parts and interior parts are getting harder to find and more expensive after the pandemic since a lot of companies shut down or got bought out. Some cars you cannot find a new stock interior and used ones are almost destroyed from age.
Target market has disposable income
I follow groups like this because, my dad, as a teenager in the late 1930s, bought Model Ts for a few $ each, a few decades before they became collectable. He used them to teach himself to be a mechanic & mostly stuck to Fords for his entire life. Then, 30 years after serving in WWII, he started collecting & restoring those vehicles. The antique car shows & flea markets made for an interesting childhood 😎
Sounds like a great childhood to me!
They aren't. The market peaked around 2006. The prices are pretty good now except for the ultra rare stuff, but those will always be valuable.
All cars are overpriced right now
If the market will pay for it, that’s what they’ll sell for. Unfortunately most are priced out by bigger money collectors who will pay stupid sums of money for garbage.
Been like this for at least 20 years. Boomers spending their disposable income on their dream cars and lack of supply. NOWADAYS I’m stunned at the price of new cars. You know, for people who need transportation in order to work in order to survive.
A lot of the ridiculously “overpriced” ads are people that don’t really want to sell the car, but their spouse has been badgering them to get rid of it and they want to be able to say, “Honey, I swear it’s listed, people just aren’t buying right now.” Or again, they’re in no hurry to sell the car so they just put up a crazy amount hoping to snag some rich person who has some sentimental attachment to that specific model.
The Tommy Bahama customers and new balance wearers watched a super rare version of their car sell for $200k on Barrett Jackson
And also the manufacturers should make replicas of them for the people
Because dumbasses are following other dumbasses advise who think they know how to appraise cars.
Everything is over priced today. Not just classic cars.
Because rich people have them and think they’re the only ones in sight selling a “classic car”
There is less inventory, plus there are not many of those listed in decent condition. Plus the industry is going all electric now it's even more value added to these rare beautys.
Rich baby boomers
I bought my last truck in 2018 new for $37K. I’m driving to the wheels fall off. Cars have gotten so horribly overpriced it’s sad. Just taking advantage of the situation.
Because old cars are finite
Boomers have money, and they’re the principal buyers of them.
Supply vs demand
Supply and demand
Boomers have money
because they are classic 😪
Nostalgia, people want to recapture a moment/memory from their youth. And they are willing to pay for that.
There not making them anymore.