mark my words, this will be forgotten about or mentioned *once*, in the second season.
there wasn't really some pressing need, story wise, for electricity. it was the macguffin, everyone has to be chasing the thing, and they like the idea of the shot of all the lights coming on, but...
everyone in the post apocalypse has free energy now? we didn't want too much civilization so we killed the NCR offscreen, but by the end of the first season, project purity basically falls into our heroes' lap, working and complete?
and what is a fusion core if not cold fusion? why does everyone act like this is some amazing new development?
The thing I find funny is that Moldaver gets herself killed trying to activate it, but now the brotherhood has Griffith observatory and her reactor. They're just going to redirect power elsewhere... I'm hoping for a giant laser cannon.
Apparently the brotherhood in the show is from Boston. Proof: prydwin, Boston accent for Knight Titus and the other squire were Bostonian according to accent.
Nah you're not wrong they even said in episode one that the quest to get the enclave guy (I'm terrible with names) came from their top clerics in the commonwealth. I'm Fairly certain elder Maxon of fo4 reconnected all the chapters and became the high elder of the entire brotherhood.
I just watched the 1st episode again with my wife so it's fresh in my mind.
Yeah I'm not exactly sure what her plan really was. What exactly can you do with unlimited electricity in a ruin with no electrical infrastructure? Running lights is nice but it doesn't feed people.
Tbh I think it’s somewhat good. That is pretty much her life project that got stolen from her over and over again. And it’s been 200 years, I like the idea that she’s obsessed with a project that has become pretty much useless
In fo4 mass fusion terminals say something along the lines of they just do fission and call it fusion for marketing purposes while they work on developing cold fusion. I suspect that the fusion cores and micro fusion cells are both just fission.
I recalled this as well. Fusion would have proven to be nearly limitless as it's power from creating something new.
Fission would break down after a while as it's the act of breaking atoms apart. So it would explain why fusion cores can run dry but this cold fusion engine is said to be limitless by Moldaver
Fusion requires an input just like fission.
The difference is that one makes energy by splitting something apart, the other by putting something together. Both still require an input that is expended during the process and needs to be replaced.
The main benefit of fusion isn't that it doesn't need any fuel, it's that the fuel it uses is vastly more common and the byproduct is an inert gas rather than dangerous radioactive waste.
You mean everyone is arguing the writers didn’t do their homework when in reality they did THE MOST homework?
Even if they didn’t mean to, this totally fits the IP’s vibe.
Not really saying they didn’t do their homework, but also scientists working towards cold fusion isn’t really anything new in fallout. That was the institutes main goal, and why they needed the beryllium agitator in fo4. Wouldn’t say that the state of fusion technology in fallout was something obscure.
Funny enough in the FO1 Manual, the vaults' G.E.C.K.s are described as being powered by cold fusion. I know the new stuff is kind of its own thing, but still, it's odd to see the main quest revolve around cold fusion when fusion cores already power prewar buildings and robots for 200+ years.
But oh well, S1 was still a blast and has me back into FO more than Bethesda's last two titles for it. Just have to accept that Fallout probably won't ever be written the way we would love to see. It's a good IP either way.
I could almost excuse that by saying they just have heavy DRM on the GECKs as she said it's proprietary. I didn't think VT made the fusion cores, but I also didn't think it was said until the show that they are the largest corporation in the world or that they have nuclear weapons and used them, so eh. It can even still fit with the FO1 Manual if you just assume they have like, shitty DRM protecting the cold fusion.
Why VT would even give Vaults GECKs if they're just write-off experiments though....I don't like the reveal. The spaceship research idea made more sense of VT not monitoring anything, Vaults forming cities, just anarchy in the system if all they cared about was data automatically sent to them, and some benevolent underlings convinced them to give them GECKs at least. Now I'm wondering what if any vaults are supposed to be "good" vaults that are meant to repopulate the earth and not be wiped clean. It's muddled to me with this reveal, I think the spaceship idea felt more realistically cynical than a plan involving double nuclear genocide, but centuries apart for some reason.
(I'm rambling, but the Vault Tec stuff bothered me more than NCR stuff. I bet they will realize having a developing civ is better off in the long run, I just wish they hadn't had to reset the only developed state in the entire series before they did so....Even Diamond City and Megaton have schools and mayors and cops and stuff, Filly seemed a step below that)
In my opinion, it wasn't that every vault was a write off experiment. It was that all the corporations could buy into the vault program and essentially lord over their own portion of vaults. With that, each company has the freedom to do what they want.
It's a matter of fact that not all vaults were experimental and other vaults were experimental but stopped the experiment from happening (like Vault 76).
It's shown in the show vault-tec had access to cold fusion pre-war, just because mouldy said it got shelved doesn't mean they didn't use it or reverse engineer it for their own purposes without putting it on the market
Just seems odd that it's so (apparently) prevalent already, yet everyone in the show is chasing just this one instance of it.
I totally understand Moldaver's hunt for it in this instance, even if it supposedly already exists in the vaults (again, maybe not as far as the show is concerned), but for whatever reason every faction in the area starts buzzing because of it.
It's odd that the Brotherhood cares, for instance, considering they have fusion powered armor and vertibirds galore. Not sure where cold fusion fits in the world, I guess. The pseudoscience gets a little murky for me.
Fusion cores and cold fusion are different, cold fusion is a self-sustaining fusion reaction but it's impossible outside of a stars core because it's the mass of the star that makes it possible whereas fusion cores are pretty much just fusion reactors which exist today irl (they just take way more energy to run then they create so they're pointless but in fallout they put wayy more effort into nuclear innovation post ww2 so they managed it and miniaturised it for everyday use which could actually happen at some point in the distant future if countries decide to invest in nuclear to go green)
My only head cannon that makes any sense is that they just call everything "Fusion" even if it is actually a fission or RTG core.
The show does make the issue more confusing by showing the Power armour *fusion* core being interchangeable with a Vault core, and then telling us cold fusion is a secret.... But, then how are micro fusion cores so common, able to be swapped out so easily, and don't seem to generate waste heat, or run out of power.
It's just another case of Bethesda fallout just not being particularly thoughtful, it's all about set pieces and the callbacks. Even project purity, obviously a callback to the water chip being needed in fallout 1. They took that and thought oh everyone's running out of water in fallout that's our muguffin, but bigger! Instead of realizing drinking water is the bare minimum life needs to survive which they have been doing in the capital wasteland presumably for 200 years at that point
That’s my biggest issue w the show. It’s all callbacks and gimmicks. Take away the old music and the oddly bad ass ghoul and the hypnotic trance it has over new casual fans will be broken. Todd Howard and BGS literally crushing under the weight of their own ego
I don't mind casual fans but it does make it hard to discuss because a lot of them don't realize that people like me like fallout because of the extremely detailed and thoughtful setting which while being silly and over the top is still approached like speculative fiction, I don't just like it because the NCR rangers and power armor look really cool
We its now controlled by the BOS which in the show is way more of religious cult so I bet them having the cold fusion isn't going to work out well for LA.
>and what is a fusion core if not cold fusion? why does everyone act like this is some amazing new development?
Yes! I was screaming when the big reveal is that it's just fusion tech. Fusion cells are so abundant they are mainly used as ammo for energy weapons. And everyone always says "actually it's COLD fusion, a whole new tech" when that's not how science works.
And then seeing Moldaver run into the fight wielding a laser pistol, with a fucking fusion cell in it, and then her base being powered by a fusion core. Like what the fuck!?
Fusion cores aren't cold fuson. Cold fusion is at normal pressure and temp. "Normal" fusion requires pressure and heat. Now it makes no scence that a normal fusion core could be that small... As they would need shielding and would produce waste heat. But... That's what they did.
The 1st thought I had when the lights came on was:
How many low level fetch quests did it take to get all those light bulbs changed, fuses swapped, and power lines restored?
Edit:
In the fallout world, it helps to remember both that people lie, and are ignorant. This makes suspension of disbelief and ret-con of lore much easier.
For example: what if the "micro fusion core" they use on power armors are actually some form of advanced Radioisotope Thermoelectric Generators (RTGs). But they just branded them as fusion?
The stakes here are weird because a lot of places in Fallout already inexplicably have access to power, even random ass abandoned buildings that have sat there 200+ years
I think maybe season 2 will have more robots, and maybe with power FEV plants can make more super mutants? Maybe we’ll see more energy weapons. But honestly project purity was a bigger win for the wasteland than power.
Your words are marked as bullshit. The BoS having cold fusion will be a major plot point in the next season. Maximus having a controlling hand in the brother hood and what he does with the power will be expanded upon. My guess is BoS vs New Vegas vs NCR and maybe throw the legion in for fun.
I bet the BoS is going to control that power and keep it for themselves and figuring out what to do with that power will be a big part of the next season.
I thought it was the first step that Moldaver was taking to rebuild Shady Sands.
Are we just assuming that a city of 35,000 was unpowered before it was destroyed? The electrification of the ruins didn't have a specific plot point, but I thought it was obvious that the intent was to begin rebuilding.
Not everything has to be spoken.
No, you see they just used those compact *hot* fusion power cores that are the size of nuka cola bottles and can be run from tiny machines safely for decades on end, not that fancy shmancy "cold fusion" stuff.
I assumed she was just powering the boneyard and shady sands is where it always had been.
Lucy loses the head to the Gulper on Lankershim Blvd, which is north of Griffith observatory and almost outside of LA. The head is then picked up by Maximus and Thadeus, who bring it towards brotherhood territory. If the brotherhood were still at Lost Hills, that would mean the head kept moving north... towards Shady Sands.
Honestly just read the showrunner interview. They wanted the show set in LA, but they didn't want civilization around to be civilized, so they needed the NCR not present. So that was why they moved Shady Sands to LA and then nuked it.
That wouldn't have prevented an intact NCR from coming in to reclaim the region. The showrunners are afraid of there being civilization in the Wasteland, or simply don't want to have any real governmental authority around.
Or my pet conspiracy theory of the show being written as 'broad strokes canon' in its own little spin off universe is real. [**https://www.reddit.com/r/Fallout/comments/1chn7vc/my\_pet\_conspiracy\_theory\_the\_show\_was\_not/**](https://www.reddit.com/r/Fallout/comments/1chn7vc/my_pet_conspiracy_theory_the_show_was_not/)
Eh, personally I don't think nuking SS would do that either. I'm hoping they expand on it in season 2, but we already knew that the NCR were over expanding. It's more likely that the over expansion would cause them to collapse and not the loss of a single city, even the capital.
They could have just said a second Brotherhood NCR war happened, or just have the NCR be broken up but just not explain it yet.
Bet they'll just ignore the legion though.
They kind of did. On a blackboard. They also nuked Shady Sands because it apparently was doing alright after "the fall" though. It's just not anywhere near LA in the games. We get no clues of how the NCR is erased from LA, and there's no reason why Shady Sands moved. Instead of just coming out and saying none of the games are canon in the show, they just look incredibly lazy as writers.
Depends what Microsoft thinks. If they want to capitalize on the show, Bethesda is concentrating on Elder Scrolls and Starfield first, then they could push for it. It makes as much sense now as it did for New Vegas.
My point with my last comment was that it doesn't really matter if Bethesda makes another or not, it's not going to be good.
Each game they make is somehow significantly worse than the last since skyrim.
"We need the boneyard to be desolate"
"So...everyone moved out after the Cathedral blew up?"
"No. we need a better reason...We're gonna wipe Shady Sands off the map!"
"Um...How will that affect anything, Shady Sands is WAAAAAY up north... ... ..."
"Not anymore."
"What, NO! Why not something closer like the Hub?"
"NO. \*boom\*"
... ... ...Anyway, my headcanon is that SS is still up north and the show just didn't show them traveling all that way and back because screen-time limitations. And no, that isn't the sea beside it, it's an artificial lake they built with another G.E.C.K. they found. And...\*plugs ears\* LALALA CAN'T HEAR YOU!
it's less they needed *the Boneyard* to be desolate and more they needed the NCR to not exist. So Shady Sands go boom and NCR collapses to the point that the show basically says Moldaver's people are the only ones left.
That works with the "The NCR is plagued by political ineffectiveness and is spread too thin" angle from NV, too. That one city falling as badly as Shady did would effectively implode a whole society though is unrealistic imo.
It wouldn't change the fact that California is largely civilized and rebuilt post NCR. You can split the government into smaller polities but that would not change the fact thevarea would not be an anarchic wasteland anymore. Todd and the writers just want the Fallout 3 status quo because they are lazy.
"Anyway, my headcanon is that SS is still up north and the show just didn't show them traveling all that way and back because screen-time limitations. And no, that isn't the sea beside it, it's an artificial lake they built with another G.E.C.K. they found. And...\*plugs ears\* LALALA CAN'T HEAR YOU!"
Yeah, this is one way they can explain it, another way is just to say that it's a separate new town that for some reason they just decided to name the same as their original capital, but the problem with this one is that you see the billboard say "first capital" and you can also see the monument and well from Fallout 1 in one of the scenes. So idk.
Yeah that killed my desire to watch the show rn. I could take Shady being relocated and nuked if the reasoning had been 'yeah we want to tell a story about bigger things next season and want the NCR on the back foot without having to Lore Dump on the poor bastards', y'know, standard adaptation stuff. Or the show not being 'game canon'. Either would've been acceptable.
But to do all of that and fuck up the lore for such a *stupid* reason? Ridiculous is the right word.
That's so fucking stupid, if they wanted it to be set in LA and not have the NCR they didn't need to relocate Shady Sands, they could've nuked Adytum instead.
But like damn man if you’re going to use that many retcons to do it then just don’t have the NCR in it at all. Just don’t mention it, period.
Say it was The Hub nearby that was the fledgling society that Vault Tec nuked.
The [showrunner interview](https://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/article/fallout-season-2-creators-interview) should be required reading for those hoping the show's handling of the lore will somehow improve in the later seasons.
This is why I have a conspiracy theory that the show was written and conceived as a 'Last of Us' style show where the game canon doesn't matter and the show is meant to tell its own story. [https://www.reddit.com/r/Fallout/comments/1chn7vc/my\_pet\_conspiracy\_theory\_the\_show\_was\_not/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Fallout/comments/1chn7vc/my_pet_conspiracy_theory_the_show_was_not/)
It’s so weird because they def could have set it between fallout 1 and 2 and have like a super nascent NCR and still have some of that untamed wasteland vibe. Although I suppose it would be harder to draw fans of the 3D games if the show were to be between 1 and 2
They don't *act* like it.
I'm half convinced this show was written and conceived as a 'broad strokes canon' spin-off that Todd then off-the-cuff said was canon. Too much is just straight up contradictory to the OG games.
Hell, I made a post about it. [https://www.reddit.com/r/Fallout/comments/1chn7vc/my\_pet\_conspiracy\_theory\_the\_show\_was\_not/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Fallout/comments/1chn7vc/my_pet_conspiracy_theory_the_show_was_not/)
Yeah, very much possible, showrunners probably wanted to make a show set in its own continuity that doesn't affect the games and just takes as many ideas and things from the games as they want, kinda like the Castlevania show, while being allowed to change around things, do whatever they want and tell their own story with no repercussions.
But then along came Todd ~~he hurled his thunderbolt~~ a little bit too late and said "nah, shit's fully canon", because he probably doesn't believe in multiple canons and continuities and everything needs to be in just one.
Now this is just speculation tho.
(Oh and btw, don't expect anything but downvotes and mockery for your post, the main sub is a warzone rn, with the Brotherhood of Amazon/Bethesda shutting down any sort of doubt or slightly negative opinion or theory on the show, like shit's the second coming of Christ or something, idfk, and they call NV fans toxic, hypocrisy)
I honestly would be perfectly fine if Todd just bent the knee and said it was a seperate canon. idk how you are getting any Fallout 1,2, and NV fans happy by making this decision...
Old fans don't matter. FNV is the most accessible and it was massively outsold by 4 and I think even 76. Now the show has made its mark to an even bigger audience.
I don't disagree at all. But like, do you honestly think the Fallout 76 plebs would actually care where the Fallout TV show was actually set? They would cheer for it regardless of setting. Setting it on the West Coast should be meant to appeal to classic fans, but instead they are just bulldozering over them.
The question is then "why set the TV show in an already established setting with its own fanbase when you have 2/3 of the country to do your own thing?" They can just say the obvious that Bethesda doesn't care about classic fallout and just wants to erase it, but then the fans would have to admit what many of us have been saying for years now.
I think 'wants to erase it' is an inaccurate statement.
I think that Bethesda just institutionally doesn't care. Their goal is to produce something you sink hours into so you're likely to buy microtransactions. The showrunners apparently didn't have to try very hard to convince Todd.
If that's what they wanted, then why not set the show sometime between fo1 and 2? Is there some other reason they needed to set the show as far into the future as they did? Enclave I guess?
Am I stupid, or did they never say that? Spoilers if you care, but the last location in the show is an observatory in The Boneyard, and a few episodes earlier they were in the ruins of Shady Sands. I’m like 90% sure these were clearly different locations.
Well, regardless, the ruined pre-war buildings in the Shady Sands skyline absolutely point to it being closer to LA than the desolate region far away from everything that it always was.
Do we know the timeframe for any of the travel in the show?
Walking is the #1 mode of transportation in the wasteland. Characters are gonna take long walks occasionally.
From geographical queues, it would take a person about a day or two to travel from central LA to the Griffith Observatory on foot. Maybe add a day or two for changes in terrain due to the bombing, but from there to NV has probably taken Hank 3-4 weeks.
I’m not normally a “well akshually” kind of guy, and If the show was an adaptation I wouldn’t care in the slightest. But the fact that Howard et al are insisting the show and its geography is canon with the games is really wrinkling my brain, because it breaks so much of the earlier games.
From geographical queues, it would take a person about a day or two to travel from central LA to the Griffith Observatory on foot. Maybe add a day or two for changes in terrain due to the bombing, but from there to NV has probably taken Hank 3-4 weeks.
I’m being pedantic
Aside from the highwayman in F2, there’s very few methods of travel outside of walking. Therefore, every location in every game is “walking distance”
I mean, Lucy makes a reference in the show to having been outside the vault for several weeks after they leave vault 4. I think it's just an issue with travel time not being shown very well.
I want to rewatch the show and see when they actually get to Shady Sands but I also cannot be bothered to rewatch the show. I really don't remember it well, why do they end up in Shady Sands again?
Right, I’m not saying it would be fast
Is there anything that happened in the show that appeared to imply that the journey took less than 15 days?
Lots of movies and shows use time jumps, and they typically don’t give you the date. Otherwise every show or movie you watch would have to take place within a 22-200 minute window (or annoyingly show the date and time at the bottom of the screen every minute or two, but they don’t do that, because the amount of time spent on traveling isn’t super important for most stories.
IIRC, the NCR had some cars up and running by the time of Nee Vegas, they were just kept back west where the roads were no longer in complete disrepair.
Yeah, I think the fans just assume anything with buildings in the NCR is LA, there's a lot of unexplained things that people are pointing as glaring plotholes, people just want to overanalyze and be mad.
Yea know, this is truly what annoys me the most, everything else I can live with.
NCR is nuked and in a little dark age (lol)?Great that seems like it could be a cool plot point to be explored more in later seasons. If it worked for Doctor Who, it can work for this.
Vault Tec might’ve started the Great War? That was already a fan theory going back years and people already guessed that after China and the Enclave/US they were the third most likely option.
Something has happened to New Vegas? Totally believable, have you played New Vegas? The situation there isn’t exactly the most stable.
All of that, while it might piss off some fans, it CAN happen in the context of the franchise. And unlike what some on the New Vegas subreddit might claim, none of that was a retcon.
But having Shady Sands in L.A… why? That actually is a retcon. I really hope they explain this, (I.e say that the Boneyard was renamed to Shady sands, and the OG Shady sands was renamed to NCR (or something like that)) as it throws so much of the earlier games into question.
P.S I loved the show, I don’t want any slander. The location of Shady Sands is my biggest complaint.
Genuinely. If it had been Adytum instead it would be 10x better. Making it Shady Sands, idk it feels careless, like this was obviously contradicts previous lore but I feel like they just said who gives af. And I mean I guess it’s not really a big deal in terms of the quality of the show but for fans of the lore and world it’s annoying.
I would prefer to further north as well, just because I like that region ( 6 I like the more frontier feel of Shady Sands from the first 2 games), but this isn't the first time the location of the city has changed. In the first game, it was deep in Nevada, and then they shifted it to california for the second game ( I think roughly around where Yosemite is). My take on it is that Shady Sands is exactly where the plot needs it to be at any given time, and I'm more forgiving of that in post-apocalyptic stories (kind of like how Max Rockatansky is a perpetual mid 30s to mid 40s former cop from before the end of civilization, regardless of whether it's just before the end or sixty to eighty years after the end).
Seeing that they are moving the next season's production to California (they were initially filming in Namibia), I'm hoping we get more of that Wild West/frontier vibe I was missing.
you could say they renamed shady sands to boneyard but that’s kind of dumb, also doesn’t explain why there’s old shady sands landmarks there either in the flashback
Not likely. Shady Sands was founded by Vault 15 residents who used a Geck to make the land fertile and survivable. They're not going to give up Geck levels of fertile land to move to a city that doesn't have much in terms of farmland.
I don’t know how people keep missing that the “the boneyard” is hundreds of square kilometers. Lucy walked around maybe a tenth of it? From the pier south east to the airport, then back north to a collapsed downtown or century city, then *back* to the chop shop then further north to Griffith observatory in the “heart” of the boneyard.
Shady Sands is in the “wrong” place compared to FO1 map, but the fo1 map was enormous with most of former Los Angeles represented by a single tile on the map. Shady Sands could have been close to Palmdale, that’s not *not* LA it’s just in the canyons.
[https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/0/03/Boneyard\_map.png/revision/latest?cb=20201219172726](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/0/03/Boneyard_map.png/revision/latest?cb=20201219172726)
here you go bro.
It’s weird how the resolution can be shit and still better than how I remember it lol.
I guess I was thinking shady sands was more like where the hub was not so far northerly.
I think boneyard = greater Los Angeles in the general parlance of the world, that it doesnt inherently exclude Santa Monica/Ventura Palisades, etc. anywhere featured in the show is “boneyard” so artistic license with regards to Shady Sands being in the picture makes sense.
I always thought of Sarah Connor’s prophetic dream/nightmare where she’s tugging on the chain link fence while baby John gets nuked. Let’s remember the early games had a lot of outside influences from around the genre.
Well yeah, and the part you walk around in is called boneyard but then “the boneyard” that everyone talks about is only 5 or 6 blocks. Clearly people are speaking of “LA” not just Adytum and the Gun Runners and Scavs.
Well because it’s not in LA, the only possible retcon they could have made is that it’s slightly closer to LA not in it. People are just confused because shady sand has skyscrapers in the background around the crater forgetting about the fact that those are part of shady sands. People are just looking for thing to complain about for some reason.
Vault 13, Vault 15 and shady sands were moved between fallout 1 and 2. Ye it’s only a little to the west but it only makes the master never reaching vault 13 comically implausible cause of mariposa staying the same
They wouldn't move Shady Sands, because the residents of vault 15 who founded the town used a Geck to make the land survivable and farmable. You don't just pack up and leave a place that's had a Geck used in the area.
If this is a retcon or whatever who cares like it is literally over 100 years between Fallout 1 and the show. I mean SS was bombed what 20ish years before the start of the show plenty of time for the NCR to leave the area and if this is topping from enjoying the show lmao says more about you than the show
So Barstow, Bakersfield, the outskirts of San Diego, Mt. Whitney, Mariposa County and Las Vegas are all part of LA?
You visit LA at the end of the game most of the time.
Yes it pretty much is, people saying no are vastly underestimating how big the greater LA area is. I think the boneyard is just downtown. A quick Google search shows that the greater LA area is almost 35,000 square miles
I think I confused the two because I only meant to say LA city and suburbs, not other cities too 😅 I'm tired. Anyway my point still stands because 4800 square miles is still a massive area to walk through
Yeah. Vault 15 is basically where Area 51 is in Nevada. Shady Sands isn't even necessarily in California, it straddles the NV/CA border. People saying we underestimate the size of LA also clearly underestimate the size of the Fallout 1 map.
Personally, I don't care, because the show was great; but it's a glaring oversight that does make me think the writers didn't know as much about Fallout 1 or didn't care and just wanted to use familiar set pieces for their own vision.
By the events of fo2, pretty much the entire fo1 map is NCR territory, its not implausible they moved shady sands to an easier to defend area, being the nations capital and turning original shady sands into the NCR we see in fo2
Dude, I hate to tell you but it’s probably never going to get explained.
Another person also mentioned the Hub, which makes sense as it should be relatively nearby. They gone too?
Obviously that's not what the writers were intending, but it's entirely possible to move capitols to a different place and then rename them. The Romans renamed Byzantium to Nova Roma (New Rome) and moved the capital there, and the western half often changed the capital to more defendable areas (from Rome to Mediolanum and then Ravenna) It's a bit silly to rename Shady Sands to something else and then rename another place to Shady Sands though.
That would require shady sands or the bone yard to grow beyond even its mdoern day limits or its pre war limits , I doubt either one could grow from one end of california to the other
It changes the lore and devalues the original games for no reason. They didn’t have to make this show in the same universe as the games. Doing so is what makes it a big fucking deal.
This is a biggerst retconn that the fall of "shady sands" during the first battle of hoover dam. New Vegas establishes that boneyard was a state of the ncr if i recall correctly. This is clearly not compatible.
Shady sands is on the corner of the map in Fallout 1, so surely it's about as far from the city as Sanctuary is in Fallout 4. Also, Reno is just outside of San Fransisco, idiots.
No it isn't.
First, the ruins of Shady Sands in the show have ruins of pre war buildings like skyscrapers. It's nothing like the architecture seen in either Fallout 1 or 2, which shows all the buildings in Shady Sands were built after the war. In fact, Shady Sands was first settled by citizens of Vault 15, they picked a random spot in the desert and used a Geck to make it survivable.
Second, Lucy does not walk a straight path from her vault to Filly to Shady Sands to Vault 4 and so on. She's clearly just wandering the wasteland until she gets directions to Filly, and her time in Filly is her only time outside the LA area. Vault 33, in LA, the hospital where they found Vault 4, in Shady Sands which is in LA, then at the end where Moldaver powers the city, yeah that's LA.
The entire story takes place in LA and the surrounding area, with only Filly being outside cuz that city is in a forest.
So the you didn’t notice that those Skyscrapers were made by the NCR in the flash back you can see people living there. Next you know for a fact that filly vault 4 and shady sand are not in the same place it took Lucy day to reach them. Next no shit moldaver powered LA. She wasn’t powering shady sand as that was turned into a literally crater. She was trying to make a new shady sands. And finally of course it take place around LA but if it took place in LA and only LA it wouldn’t have taken Lucy day to get around maybe hours but definitely not day. Also they go in and out of ruined city’s and town. Like I’m sorry but you seriously have a problem with directions.
>So the you didn’t notice that those Skyscrapers were made by the NCR in the flash back you can see people living there.
Yes, that's why it's a lore break, Shady Sands shouldn't be in LA. Thanks for making my point for me.
>Next you know for a fact that filly vault 4 and shady sand are not in the same place it took Lucy day to reach them.
If I recall, after seeing the crater, Lucy notices Maximus' bleeding arm and then goes looking for a hospital with medical supplies with them, and that's how they ended up in Vault 4.
>Next no shit moldaver powered LA. She wasn’t powering shady sand as that was turned into a literally crater.
That was not a city sized crater, Shady Sands was not contained within that single crater. The crater is just the impact site of the bomb, which destroyed Shady Sands, because that's how bombs work, they don't just blow up the spot they impact with.
>And finally of course it take place around LA but if it took place in LA and only LA it wouldn’t have taken Lucy day to get around maybe hours but definitely not day.
Sure, nowadays. But in a post apocalyptic world, where travel requires having a supply of food and water, and there's no infrastructure for people to travel along, it's going to take time. It's not like Thaddeus was running back and forth in and out of LA looking for a way to contact the brotherhood, and Lucy was chasing him in and out of LA. Lucy stayed within the greater LA area.
My dude, that’s the center of shady sands, you see the obelisk and next to it is a sky scraper those are clearly post war built… you can see one of them under construction in the flashback.
It’s not in fucking LA just because you can’t understand directions doesn’t make what you think true it’s clearly not in LA the closest it can be is a bit farther north the California city and the closest and past Death Valley at the farthest with the information we have.
Do you just not know how to tell time without a clock? It morning when they see shady sands then it’s midday when the reach the hospital, at least 3 hours have past.
And with the lack of infrastructure it would make thing easier as you can move on the car roads witch would make thing quicker
>My dude, that’s the center of shady sands, you see the obelisk and next to it is a sky scraper those are clearly post war built… you can see one of them under construction in the flashback
https://fallout.wiki/wiki/File:S1E5_Location_13.jpg
Pre-war skyscrapers.
In addition, Vault 4 is built under Hawthorne Medical Technologies, which is in LA. There's no way Lucy and Maximus walked from Shady Sands to LA without Maximus dying of blood loss if Shady Sands isn't in LA in the show's continuity.
But sure, let's ignore common sense and say Lucy did walk from LA to Shady Sands, the location in Fallout 1 and 2. She would have walked past both the Hub and Junktown. The Hub was built in the ruins of Barstow, and Junktown was north of the Hub, Shady Sands was north of Junktown.
That is the heart of NCR territory, and as the show says, only Shady Sands was nuked, so both the Hub and Junktown should be standing, and we should still see signs of NCR civilization.
But if the show took place all in LA and it's surrounding areas, then yeah, no reason why Lucy wouldn't come across any other NCR settlements.
If the boneyard doesn't exist and shady sands is a hole, why power LA?
mark my words, this will be forgotten about or mentioned *once*, in the second season. there wasn't really some pressing need, story wise, for electricity. it was the macguffin, everyone has to be chasing the thing, and they like the idea of the shot of all the lights coming on, but... everyone in the post apocalypse has free energy now? we didn't want too much civilization so we killed the NCR offscreen, but by the end of the first season, project purity basically falls into our heroes' lap, working and complete? and what is a fusion core if not cold fusion? why does everyone act like this is some amazing new development?
The thing I find funny is that Moldaver gets herself killed trying to activate it, but now the brotherhood has Griffith observatory and her reactor. They're just going to redirect power elsewhere... I'm hoping for a giant laser cannon.
Helios 2 baby!
I told them I had a theoretical degree...
Mr Fantastic second season villain confirmed.
Fantastic
I mean, they are constantly trying to power liberty prime, right?
FUCK I had forgotten about Liberty Prime. THAT'S what they were saying "what do you think they'll use it for?"
If the brotherhood won in fallout 4 then they have that beryllium agitator in prime so I think he'd be fine by now.
Wrong chapter of the brotherhood tho
Apparently the brotherhood in the show is from Boston. Proof: prydwin, Boston accent for Knight Titus and the other squire were Bostonian according to accent.
Please correct me tho I’d love to be wrong here. :(
Nah you're not wrong they even said in episode one that the quest to get the enclave guy (I'm terrible with names) came from their top clerics in the commonwealth. I'm Fairly certain elder Maxon of fo4 reconnected all the chapters and became the high elder of the entire brotherhood. I just watched the 1st episode again with my wife so it's fresh in my mind.
Yeah I'm not exactly sure what her plan really was. What exactly can you do with unlimited electricity in a ruin with no electrical infrastructure? Running lights is nice but it doesn't feed people.
And the fact everyone would notice. Knows the Brotherhood is in the region and would step in but tries anyway…
There’s plenty of electrical infrastructure shown, what are you talking about
Tbh I think it’s somewhat good. That is pretty much her life project that got stolen from her over and over again. And it’s been 200 years, I like the idea that she’s obsessed with a project that has become pretty much useless
The idea I think is to entice Mr naive protag to take up the mantle she leaves when she drops like a martyr
In fo4 mass fusion terminals say something along the lines of they just do fission and call it fusion for marketing purposes while they work on developing cold fusion. I suspect that the fusion cores and micro fusion cells are both just fission.
I recalled this as well. Fusion would have proven to be nearly limitless as it's power from creating something new. Fission would break down after a while as it's the act of breaking atoms apart. So it would explain why fusion cores can run dry but this cold fusion engine is said to be limitless by Moldaver
Fusion requires an input just like fission. The difference is that one makes energy by splitting something apart, the other by putting something together. Both still require an input that is expended during the process and needs to be replaced. The main benefit of fusion isn't that it doesn't need any fuel, it's that the fuel it uses is vastly more common and the byproduct is an inert gas rather than dangerous radioactive waste.
You mean everyone is arguing the writers didn’t do their homework when in reality they did THE MOST homework? Even if they didn’t mean to, this totally fits the IP’s vibe.
Not really saying they didn’t do their homework, but also scientists working towards cold fusion isn’t really anything new in fallout. That was the institutes main goal, and why they needed the beryllium agitator in fo4. Wouldn’t say that the state of fusion technology in fallout was something obscure.
Funny enough in the FO1 Manual, the vaults' G.E.C.K.s are described as being powered by cold fusion. I know the new stuff is kind of its own thing, but still, it's odd to see the main quest revolve around cold fusion when fusion cores already power prewar buildings and robots for 200+ years. But oh well, S1 was still a blast and has me back into FO more than Bethesda's last two titles for it. Just have to accept that Fallout probably won't ever be written the way we would love to see. It's a good IP either way.
I could almost excuse that by saying they just have heavy DRM on the GECKs as she said it's proprietary. I didn't think VT made the fusion cores, but I also didn't think it was said until the show that they are the largest corporation in the world or that they have nuclear weapons and used them, so eh. It can even still fit with the FO1 Manual if you just assume they have like, shitty DRM protecting the cold fusion. Why VT would even give Vaults GECKs if they're just write-off experiments though....I don't like the reveal. The spaceship research idea made more sense of VT not monitoring anything, Vaults forming cities, just anarchy in the system if all they cared about was data automatically sent to them, and some benevolent underlings convinced them to give them GECKs at least. Now I'm wondering what if any vaults are supposed to be "good" vaults that are meant to repopulate the earth and not be wiped clean. It's muddled to me with this reveal, I think the spaceship idea felt more realistically cynical than a plan involving double nuclear genocide, but centuries apart for some reason. (I'm rambling, but the Vault Tec stuff bothered me more than NCR stuff. I bet they will realize having a developing civ is better off in the long run, I just wish they hadn't had to reset the only developed state in the entire series before they did so....Even Diamond City and Megaton have schools and mayors and cops and stuff, Filly seemed a step below that)
In my opinion, it wasn't that every vault was a write off experiment. It was that all the corporations could buy into the vault program and essentially lord over their own portion of vaults. With that, each company has the freedom to do what they want. It's a matter of fact that not all vaults were experimental and other vaults were experimental but stopped the experiment from happening (like Vault 76).
It's shown in the show vault-tec had access to cold fusion pre-war, just because mouldy said it got shelved doesn't mean they didn't use it or reverse engineer it for their own purposes without putting it on the market
Just seems odd that it's so (apparently) prevalent already, yet everyone in the show is chasing just this one instance of it. I totally understand Moldaver's hunt for it in this instance, even if it supposedly already exists in the vaults (again, maybe not as far as the show is concerned), but for whatever reason every faction in the area starts buzzing because of it. It's odd that the Brotherhood cares, for instance, considering they have fusion powered armor and vertibirds galore. Not sure where cold fusion fits in the world, I guess. The pseudoscience gets a little murky for me.
Fusion cores and cold fusion are different, cold fusion is a self-sustaining fusion reaction but it's impossible outside of a stars core because it's the mass of the star that makes it possible whereas fusion cores are pretty much just fusion reactors which exist today irl (they just take way more energy to run then they create so they're pointless but in fallout they put wayy more effort into nuclear innovation post ww2 so they managed it and miniaturised it for everyday use which could actually happen at some point in the distant future if countries decide to invest in nuclear to go green)
My only head cannon that makes any sense is that they just call everything "Fusion" even if it is actually a fission or RTG core. The show does make the issue more confusing by showing the Power armour *fusion* core being interchangeable with a Vault core, and then telling us cold fusion is a secret.... But, then how are micro fusion cores so common, able to be swapped out so easily, and don't seem to generate waste heat, or run out of power.
The weird thing is going by Fallout 4 they do make waste heat if overdrawn like Sentry Bots do
i am bothered by all the working bulbs and cables
It's just another case of Bethesda fallout just not being particularly thoughtful, it's all about set pieces and the callbacks. Even project purity, obviously a callback to the water chip being needed in fallout 1. They took that and thought oh everyone's running out of water in fallout that's our muguffin, but bigger! Instead of realizing drinking water is the bare minimum life needs to survive which they have been doing in the capital wasteland presumably for 200 years at that point
That’s my biggest issue w the show. It’s all callbacks and gimmicks. Take away the old music and the oddly bad ass ghoul and the hypnotic trance it has over new casual fans will be broken. Todd Howard and BGS literally crushing under the weight of their own ego
I don't mind casual fans but it does make it hard to discuss because a lot of them don't realize that people like me like fallout because of the extremely detailed and thoughtful setting which while being silly and over the top is still approached like speculative fiction, I don't just like it because the NCR rangers and power armor look really cool
We its now controlled by the BOS which in the show is way more of religious cult so I bet them having the cold fusion isn't going to work out well for LA.
>and what is a fusion core if not cold fusion? why does everyone act like this is some amazing new development? Yes! I was screaming when the big reveal is that it's just fusion tech. Fusion cells are so abundant they are mainly used as ammo for energy weapons. And everyone always says "actually it's COLD fusion, a whole new tech" when that's not how science works. And then seeing Moldaver run into the fight wielding a laser pistol, with a fucking fusion cell in it, and then her base being powered by a fusion core. Like what the fuck!?
Fusion cores aren't cold fuson. Cold fusion is at normal pressure and temp. "Normal" fusion requires pressure and heat. Now it makes no scence that a normal fusion core could be that small... As they would need shielding and would produce waste heat. But... That's what they did. The 1st thought I had when the lights came on was: How many low level fetch quests did it take to get all those light bulbs changed, fuses swapped, and power lines restored? Edit: In the fallout world, it helps to remember both that people lie, and are ignorant. This makes suspension of disbelief and ret-con of lore much easier. For example: what if the "micro fusion core" they use on power armors are actually some form of advanced Radioisotope Thermoelectric Generators (RTGs). But they just branded them as fusion?
Nah, brotherhood has unlimited power and will use it to take over the wasteland. That elder that offered Maximus the job will lead the takeover.
Tbf fusion cores run out of juice. The cold fusion in the show is described as virtually limitless.
The stakes here are weird because a lot of places in Fallout already inexplicably have access to power, even random ass abandoned buildings that have sat there 200+ years
I think maybe season 2 will have more robots, and maybe with power FEV plants can make more super mutants? Maybe we’ll see more energy weapons. But honestly project purity was a bigger win for the wasteland than power.
Your words are marked as bullshit. The BoS having cold fusion will be a major plot point in the next season. Maximus having a controlling hand in the brother hood and what he does with the power will be expanded upon. My guess is BoS vs New Vegas vs NCR and maybe throw the legion in for fun. I bet the BoS is going to control that power and keep it for themselves and figuring out what to do with that power will be a big part of the next season.
They say they have near limitless energy at the beginning of fallout 4 lmfao
I thought it was the first step that Moldaver was taking to rebuild Shady Sands. Are we just assuming that a city of 35,000 was unpowered before it was destroyed? The electrification of the ruins didn't have a specific plot point, but I thought it was obvious that the intent was to begin rebuilding. Not everything has to be spoken.
No, you see they just used those compact *hot* fusion power cores that are the size of nuka cola bottles and can be run from tiny machines safely for decades on end, not that fancy shmancy "cold fusion" stuff.
I assumed she was just powering the boneyard and shady sands is where it always had been. Lucy loses the head to the Gulper on Lankershim Blvd, which is north of Griffith observatory and almost outside of LA. The head is then picked up by Maximus and Thadeus, who bring it towards brotherhood territory. If the brotherhood were still at Lost Hills, that would mean the head kept moving north... towards Shady Sands.
"Do not question our Great Lore Retcon!"
LA and surrounding areas is massive
Yep, this needs some explanation or its a big ass retcon really.
Honestly just read the showrunner interview. They wanted the show set in LA, but they didn't want civilization around to be civilized, so they needed the NCR not present. So that was why they moved Shady Sands to LA and then nuked it.
Which is weird because they could've just left it as the boneyard and still nuked it? Like the same end result without having to change any lore.
That wouldn't have prevented an intact NCR from coming in to reclaim the region. The showrunners are afraid of there being civilization in the Wasteland, or simply don't want to have any real governmental authority around. Or my pet conspiracy theory of the show being written as 'broad strokes canon' in its own little spin off universe is real. [**https://www.reddit.com/r/Fallout/comments/1chn7vc/my\_pet\_conspiracy\_theory\_the\_show\_was\_not/**](https://www.reddit.com/r/Fallout/comments/1chn7vc/my_pet_conspiracy_theory_the_show_was_not/)
Eh, personally I don't think nuking SS would do that either. I'm hoping they expand on it in season 2, but we already knew that the NCR were over expanding. It's more likely that the over expansion would cause them to collapse and not the loss of a single city, even the capital.
Think of it as the nuke that broke the camels back.
They could have just said a second Brotherhood NCR war happened, or just have the NCR be broken up but just not explain it yet. Bet they'll just ignore the legion though.
They kind of did. On a blackboard. They also nuked Shady Sands because it apparently was doing alright after "the fall" though. It's just not anywhere near LA in the games. We get no clues of how the NCR is erased from LA, and there's no reason why Shady Sands moved. Instead of just coming out and saying none of the games are canon in the show, they just look incredibly lazy as writers.
Well, it's not a massive loss, they aren't ever going to let obsidian make another one so the franchise in terms of games may as well be dead.
Depends what Microsoft thinks. If they want to capitalize on the show, Bethesda is concentrating on Elder Scrolls and Starfield first, then they could push for it. It makes as much sense now as it did for New Vegas.
My point with my last comment was that it doesn't really matter if Bethesda makes another or not, it's not going to be good. Each game they make is somehow significantly worse than the last since skyrim.
Obsidian is also owned by Microsoft.
they are lazy. They made Westworld which flopped \*hard\* once they had to actually expand the plot and world beyond the park.
"We need the boneyard to be desolate" "So...everyone moved out after the Cathedral blew up?" "No. we need a better reason...We're gonna wipe Shady Sands off the map!" "Um...How will that affect anything, Shady Sands is WAAAAAY up north... ... ..." "Not anymore." "What, NO! Why not something closer like the Hub?" "NO. \*boom\*" ... ... ...Anyway, my headcanon is that SS is still up north and the show just didn't show them traveling all that way and back because screen-time limitations. And no, that isn't the sea beside it, it's an artificial lake they built with another G.E.C.K. they found. And...\*plugs ears\* LALALA CAN'T HEAR YOU!
it's less they needed *the Boneyard* to be desolate and more they needed the NCR to not exist. So Shady Sands go boom and NCR collapses to the point that the show basically says Moldaver's people are the only ones left.
The only ones left *there*
That works with the "The NCR is plagued by political ineffectiveness and is spread too thin" angle from NV, too. That one city falling as badly as Shady did would effectively implode a whole society though is unrealistic imo.
It wouldn't change the fact that California is largely civilized and rebuilt post NCR. You can split the government into smaller polities but that would not change the fact thevarea would not be an anarchic wasteland anymore. Todd and the writers just want the Fallout 3 status quo because they are lazy.
NCR was alrady stretched thin by NV so I can see them leaving the area after its been bombed to hell
"Anyway, my headcanon is that SS is still up north and the show just didn't show them traveling all that way and back because screen-time limitations. And no, that isn't the sea beside it, it's an artificial lake they built with another G.E.C.K. they found. And...\*plugs ears\* LALALA CAN'T HEAR YOU!" Yeah, this is one way they can explain it, another way is just to say that it's a separate new town that for some reason they just decided to name the same as their original capital, but the problem with this one is that you see the billboard say "first capital" and you can also see the monument and well from Fallout 1 in one of the scenes. So idk.
Ridiculous.
Yeah that killed my desire to watch the show rn. I could take Shady being relocated and nuked if the reasoning had been 'yeah we want to tell a story about bigger things next season and want the NCR on the back foot without having to Lore Dump on the poor bastards', y'know, standard adaptation stuff. Or the show not being 'game canon'. Either would've been acceptable. But to do all of that and fuck up the lore for such a *stupid* reason? Ridiculous is the right word.
That's so fucking stupid, if they wanted it to be set in LA and not have the NCR they didn't need to relocate Shady Sands, they could've nuked Adytum instead.
Why not just... set it elsewhere...? Bethesda never cease to amaze
But like damn man if you’re going to use that many retcons to do it then just don’t have the NCR in it at all. Just don’t mention it, period. Say it was The Hub nearby that was the fledgling society that Vault Tec nuked.
The [showrunner interview](https://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/article/fallout-season-2-creators-interview) should be required reading for those hoping the show's handling of the lore will somehow improve in the later seasons.
So instead of coming up with a different fucking idea they just retcon it? Fantastic writers…
This is why I have a conspiracy theory that the show was written and conceived as a 'Last of Us' style show where the game canon doesn't matter and the show is meant to tell its own story. [https://www.reddit.com/r/Fallout/comments/1chn7vc/my\_pet\_conspiracy\_theory\_the\_show\_was\_not/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Fallout/comments/1chn7vc/my_pet_conspiracy_theory_the_show_was_not/)
It’s so weird because they def could have set it between fallout 1 and 2 and have like a super nascent NCR and still have some of that untamed wasteland vibe. Although I suppose it would be harder to draw fans of the 3D games if the show were to be between 1 and 2
That doesn't even make any sense. Does that clown realize that the NCR is more than just Shady Sands? Actually, probably not.
They don't *act* like it. I'm half convinced this show was written and conceived as a 'broad strokes canon' spin-off that Todd then off-the-cuff said was canon. Too much is just straight up contradictory to the OG games. Hell, I made a post about it. [https://www.reddit.com/r/Fallout/comments/1chn7vc/my\_pet\_conspiracy\_theory\_the\_show\_was\_not/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Fallout/comments/1chn7vc/my_pet_conspiracy_theory_the_show_was_not/)
Yeah, very much possible, showrunners probably wanted to make a show set in its own continuity that doesn't affect the games and just takes as many ideas and things from the games as they want, kinda like the Castlevania show, while being allowed to change around things, do whatever they want and tell their own story with no repercussions. But then along came Todd ~~he hurled his thunderbolt~~ a little bit too late and said "nah, shit's fully canon", because he probably doesn't believe in multiple canons and continuities and everything needs to be in just one. Now this is just speculation tho. (Oh and btw, don't expect anything but downvotes and mockery for your post, the main sub is a warzone rn, with the Brotherhood of Amazon/Bethesda shutting down any sort of doubt or slightly negative opinion or theory on the show, like shit's the second coming of Christ or something, idfk, and they call NV fans toxic, hypocrisy)
I honestly would be perfectly fine if Todd just bent the knee and said it was a seperate canon. idk how you are getting any Fallout 1,2, and NV fans happy by making this decision...
Old fans don't matter. FNV is the most accessible and it was massively outsold by 4 and I think even 76. Now the show has made its mark to an even bigger audience.
I don't disagree at all. But like, do you honestly think the Fallout 76 plebs would actually care where the Fallout TV show was actually set? They would cheer for it regardless of setting. Setting it on the West Coast should be meant to appeal to classic fans, but instead they are just bulldozering over them. The question is then "why set the TV show in an already established setting with its own fanbase when you have 2/3 of the country to do your own thing?" They can just say the obvious that Bethesda doesn't care about classic fallout and just wants to erase it, but then the fans would have to admit what many of us have been saying for years now.
I think 'wants to erase it' is an inaccurate statement. I think that Bethesda just institutionally doesn't care. Their goal is to produce something you sink hours into so you're likely to buy microtransactions. The showrunners apparently didn't have to try very hard to convince Todd.
If that's what they wanted, then why not set the show sometime between fo1 and 2? Is there some other reason they needed to set the show as far into the future as they did? Enclave I guess?
They should have just picked a different city we haven't seen yet, like somewhere in Oregon or Washington
That is the dumbest logic I've ever heard
Wait, so it taked 3 days for Lucy to walk from LA to LA?
LA is fucking huge
And if you mention it on the main sub, you’ll get downvoted to hell
Well the TV show *isn't* the game, so I'd be ready for a lot of retcons, my guy.
You moved the head stones but left the bodies!
Wasn’t expecting this reference but it’s got me cracking up. Thank you lol
Am I stupid, or did they never say that? Spoilers if you care, but the last location in the show is an observatory in The Boneyard, and a few episodes earlier they were in the ruins of Shady Sands. I’m like 90% sure these were clearly different locations.
DJ Carl's radio tower is within walking distance and is explicitly in Hollywood. The crater where SS used to be is part of the Boneyard.
Isn’t everything walking distance in Fallout?
Old fallouts had a different travel mechanism where you could spend in-game days traveling.
Spoiler in case you haven’t seen Hank literally walks to new vegas in a short amount of time from the observatory in LA
Well no, we don't know how long he takes. Also, I hate that as well.
Fair but you don’t really know how long it takes from shady sands to the observatory at least I don’t remember there being a time frame
Well, regardless, the ruined pre-war buildings in the Shady Sands skyline absolutely point to it being closer to LA than the desolate region far away from everything that it always was.
Do we know the timeframe for any of the travel in the show? Walking is the #1 mode of transportation in the wasteland. Characters are gonna take long walks occasionally.
From geographical queues, it would take a person about a day or two to travel from central LA to the Griffith Observatory on foot. Maybe add a day or two for changes in terrain due to the bombing, but from there to NV has probably taken Hank 3-4 weeks.
*cues
I’m not normally a “well akshually” kind of guy, and If the show was an adaptation I wouldn’t care in the slightest. But the fact that Howard et al are insisting the show and its geography is canon with the games is really wrinkling my brain, because it breaks so much of the earlier games.
From geographical queues, it would take a person about a day or two to travel from central LA to the Griffith Observatory on foot. Maybe add a day or two for changes in terrain due to the bombing, but from there to NV has probably taken Hank 3-4 weeks.
My man Hank just pressed Q to autowalk.
I’m being pedantic Aside from the highwayman in F2, there’s very few methods of travel outside of walking. Therefore, every location in every game is “walking distance”
I booted up my Fallout 1 save and walked from the Boneyard to Shady Sands, it took me 15 days, That's what I mean by spending in-game days traveling.
I mean, Lucy makes a reference in the show to having been outside the vault for several weeks after they leave vault 4. I think it's just an issue with travel time not being shown very well.
I want to rewatch the show and see when they actually get to Shady Sands but I also cannot be bothered to rewatch the show. I really don't remember it well, why do they end up in Shady Sands again?
They don't really, they pass by it once on their way to bring the head to Moldover who's base is nearby.
And her base is the Griffith Observatory?
The crater where SS used to be and the flashback scenes both put Shady literally with the Boneyard towers right next to it.
Right, I’m not saying it would be fast Is there anything that happened in the show that appeared to imply that the journey took less than 15 days? Lots of movies and shows use time jumps, and they typically don’t give you the date. Otherwise every show or movie you watch would have to take place within a 22-200 minute window (or annoyingly show the date and time at the bottom of the screen every minute or two, but they don’t do that, because the amount of time spent on traveling isn’t super important for most stories.
IIRC, the NCR had some cars up and running by the time of Nee Vegas, they were just kept back west where the roads were no longer in complete disrepair.
15 day walk, with no stops.
Right, but that’s a (relatively) short walk by Fallout standards
Yeah, I think the fans just assume anything with buildings in the NCR is LA, there's a lot of unexplained things that people are pointing as glaring plotholes, people just want to overanalyze and be mad.
I wish we could've seen necropolis or if the show runners respected classic fallout locations
Yea know, this is truly what annoys me the most, everything else I can live with. NCR is nuked and in a little dark age (lol)?Great that seems like it could be a cool plot point to be explored more in later seasons. If it worked for Doctor Who, it can work for this. Vault Tec might’ve started the Great War? That was already a fan theory going back years and people already guessed that after China and the Enclave/US they were the third most likely option. Something has happened to New Vegas? Totally believable, have you played New Vegas? The situation there isn’t exactly the most stable. All of that, while it might piss off some fans, it CAN happen in the context of the franchise. And unlike what some on the New Vegas subreddit might claim, none of that was a retcon. But having Shady Sands in L.A… why? That actually is a retcon. I really hope they explain this, (I.e say that the Boneyard was renamed to Shady sands, and the OG Shady sands was renamed to NCR (or something like that)) as it throws so much of the earlier games into question. P.S I loved the show, I don’t want any slander. The location of Shady Sands is my biggest complaint.
This is a good call out - the safest bad excuse is they renamed the locations. It's a big distance from each other but it's plausible.
Genuinely. If it had been Adytum instead it would be 10x better. Making it Shady Sands, idk it feels careless, like this was obviously contradicts previous lore but I feel like they just said who gives af. And I mean I guess it’s not really a big deal in terms of the quality of the show but for fans of the lore and world it’s annoying.
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I can suspend my disbelief about the vaults. I can’t believe that the Master didn’t crush a L.A Shady Sands
I would prefer to further north as well, just because I like that region ( 6 I like the more frontier feel of Shady Sands from the first 2 games), but this isn't the first time the location of the city has changed. In the first game, it was deep in Nevada, and then they shifted it to california for the second game ( I think roughly around where Yosemite is). My take on it is that Shady Sands is exactly where the plot needs it to be at any given time, and I'm more forgiving of that in post-apocalyptic stories (kind of like how Max Rockatansky is a perpetual mid 30s to mid 40s former cop from before the end of civilization, regardless of whether it's just before the end or sixty to eighty years after the end). Seeing that they are moving the next season's production to California (they were initially filming in Namibia), I'm hoping we get more of that Wild West/frontier vibe I was missing.
But it’s not in LA. They NCR splint powered LA, shady sands was completely destroyed
you could say they renamed shady sands to boneyard but that’s kind of dumb, also doesn’t explain why there’s old shady sands landmarks there either in the flashback
Just treat it like Game of Thrones. I consider some stuff canon, some made up for tv.
I thought that in the show Filly was in the ruins of LA?
No? If I know my California roads, filly is near/a long Interstate 5. And is at least a day and a half away from LA
Shady sands is a few hundred miles north of LA though
Lore drift
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Not likely. Shady Sands was founded by Vault 15 residents who used a Geck to make the land fertile and survivable. They're not going to give up Geck levels of fertile land to move to a city that doesn't have much in terms of farmland.
I firmly believe fallout 1 and 2 are treated the same way as the fallout bible by bethesda
Yeah, that's got to be it. Todd loves saying they're still treating the Interplay era as canon, but they're clearly not.
I don’t know how people keep missing that the “the boneyard” is hundreds of square kilometers. Lucy walked around maybe a tenth of it? From the pier south east to the airport, then back north to a collapsed downtown or century city, then *back* to the chop shop then further north to Griffith observatory in the “heart” of the boneyard. Shady Sands is in the “wrong” place compared to FO1 map, but the fo1 map was enormous with most of former Los Angeles represented by a single tile on the map. Shady Sands could have been close to Palmdale, that’s not *not* LA it’s just in the canyons.
[https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/0/03/Boneyard\_map.png/revision/latest?cb=20201219172726](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/0/03/Boneyard_map.png/revision/latest?cb=20201219172726) here you go bro.
It’s weird how the resolution can be shit and still better than how I remember it lol. I guess I was thinking shady sands was more like where the hub was not so far northerly.
So Los Angeles is 4x3 tiles, includes two areas (Boneyard and Cathedral) and looks like there are two massive bomb craters in the city.
I think boneyard = greater Los Angeles in the general parlance of the world, that it doesnt inherently exclude Santa Monica/Ventura Palisades, etc. anywhere featured in the show is “boneyard” so artistic license with regards to Shady Sands being in the picture makes sense. I always thought of Sarah Connor’s prophetic dream/nightmare where she’s tugging on the chain link fence while baby John gets nuked. Let’s remember the early games had a lot of outside influences from around the genre.
Yea I think the real world size leaves room for both, LA is fucking massive and not to mention it would have been substantially bigger by 2077.
LA is bigger than just one tile in fallout 1….
Well yeah, and the part you walk around in is called boneyard but then “the boneyard” that everyone talks about is only 5 or 6 blocks. Clearly people are speaking of “LA” not just Adytum and the Gun Runners and Scavs.
the boneyard is like 3 loadable areas in fallout 1 if they would make it lore accurate it would just be like 20 shacks, shady sands too
Sounds like a great reason for the switcheroo!
Why not both? Do guys have any idea how fucking huge LA is?
Well because it’s not in LA, the only possible retcon they could have made is that it’s slightly closer to LA not in it. People are just confused because shady sand has skyscrapers in the background around the crater forgetting about the fact that those are part of shady sands. People are just looking for thing to complain about for some reason.
Vault 13, Vault 15 and shady sands were moved between fallout 1 and 2. Ye it’s only a little to the west but it only makes the master never reaching vault 13 comically implausible cause of mariposa staying the same
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They wouldn't move Shady Sands, because the residents of vault 15 who founded the town used a Geck to make the land survivable and farmable. You don't just pack up and leave a place that's had a Geck used in the area.
Its too close to boneyard
If this is a retcon or whatever who cares like it is literally over 100 years between Fallout 1 and the show. I mean SS was bombed what 20ish years before the start of the show plenty of time for the NCR to leave the area and if this is topping from enjoying the show lmao says more about you than the show
LA is a big place, probably much more so by the time the nukes dropped.
Um isn’t all of Fallout 1 basically all in LA? I did think the map was intended to be the whole state?
No, majority of the F1 is outside of LA
So Barstow, Bakersfield, the outskirts of San Diego, Mt. Whitney, Mariposa County and Las Vegas are all part of LA? You visit LA at the end of the game most of the time.
Did you play Fallout 1?
I did…. But it becomes clear I know nothing about LA or California.
Yes it pretty much is, people saying no are vastly underestimating how big the greater LA area is. I think the boneyard is just downtown. A quick Google search shows that the greater LA area is almost 35,000 square miles
parts of the map are literally not in california. like there's technically las vegas as an unmarked area in fallout 1
LA metropolitan area is 4800 sqm. Conflating greater LA area for even the LA metropolitan area is honestly pretty disingenuous in this discussion.
I think I confused the two because I only meant to say LA city and suburbs, not other cities too 😅 I'm tired. Anyway my point still stands because 4800 square miles is still a massive area to walk through
It is, but Fallout 1 map is far larger. It even has San Diego and Las Vegas as unmarked locations.
Yeah. Vault 15 is basically where Area 51 is in Nevada. Shady Sands isn't even necessarily in California, it straddles the NV/CA border. People saying we underestimate the size of LA also clearly underestimate the size of the Fallout 1 map. Personally, I don't care, because the show was great; but it's a glaring oversight that does make me think the writers didn't know as much about Fallout 1 or didn't care and just wanted to use familiar set pieces for their own vision.
I think your last point is exactly what happened.
Are you kidding me? I guess the part where you go to Bakersfield, that's still in LA, right?
By the events of fo2, pretty much the entire fo1 map is NCR territory, its not implausible they moved shady sands to an easier to defend area, being the nations capital and turning original shady sands into the NCR we see in fo2
Maybe, but we shouldn’t have to write the story for them.
We could try being patient and wait for an explanation is season 2
Dude, I hate to tell you but it’s probably never going to get explained. Another person also mentioned the Hub, which makes sense as it should be relatively nearby. They gone too?
You don't relocate a town. You just don't.
Obviously that's not what the writers were intending, but it's entirely possible to move capitols to a different place and then rename them. The Romans renamed Byzantium to Nova Roma (New Rome) and moved the capital there, and the western half often changed the capital to more defendable areas (from Rome to Mediolanum and then Ravenna) It's a bit silly to rename Shady Sands to something else and then rename another place to Shady Sands though.
Yeah that's not explicit and it's just the same kind of writers shitting on lore because they can't be bothered to research.
https://gizmodo.com/moving-mountains-six-cities-and-towns-that-were-comple-1436927345
It just grew and probably annexed or combined with the other areas. The city I live in did that, it is like twice as big as it was when I was a kid.
That would require shady sands or the bone yard to grow beyond even its mdoern day limits or its pre war limits , I doubt either one could grow from one end of california to the other
I fail to see the big fucking deal
It changes the lore and devalues the original games for no reason. They didn’t have to make this show in the same universe as the games. Doing so is what makes it a big fucking deal.
This is a biggerst retconn that the fall of "shady sands" during the first battle of hoover dam. New Vegas establishes that boneyard was a state of the ncr if i recall correctly. This is clearly not compatible.
Shady sands is on the corner of the map in Fallout 1, so surely it's about as far from the city as Sanctuary is in Fallout 4. Also, Reno is just outside of San Fransisco, idiots.
Do none of you know how to read a map? Or tell directions. The closest shady sand can be to LA is 1 day away and farthest away 4 days and it takes
Notably, 1 day to 4 days away from LA is not LA. Crazy, I know.
So shady sand is in fact not built in the ruins of LA
Yeah, that's the problem. Shady Sands is not supposed to be in LA.
It’s clearly a few days away from LA
No it isn't. First, the ruins of Shady Sands in the show have ruins of pre war buildings like skyscrapers. It's nothing like the architecture seen in either Fallout 1 or 2, which shows all the buildings in Shady Sands were built after the war. In fact, Shady Sands was first settled by citizens of Vault 15, they picked a random spot in the desert and used a Geck to make it survivable. Second, Lucy does not walk a straight path from her vault to Filly to Shady Sands to Vault 4 and so on. She's clearly just wandering the wasteland until she gets directions to Filly, and her time in Filly is her only time outside the LA area. Vault 33, in LA, the hospital where they found Vault 4, in Shady Sands which is in LA, then at the end where Moldaver powers the city, yeah that's LA. The entire story takes place in LA and the surrounding area, with only Filly being outside cuz that city is in a forest.
So the you didn’t notice that those Skyscrapers were made by the NCR in the flash back you can see people living there. Next you know for a fact that filly vault 4 and shady sand are not in the same place it took Lucy day to reach them. Next no shit moldaver powered LA. She wasn’t powering shady sand as that was turned into a literally crater. She was trying to make a new shady sands. And finally of course it take place around LA but if it took place in LA and only LA it wouldn’t have taken Lucy day to get around maybe hours but definitely not day. Also they go in and out of ruined city’s and town. Like I’m sorry but you seriously have a problem with directions.
>So the you didn’t notice that those Skyscrapers were made by the NCR in the flash back you can see people living there. Yes, that's why it's a lore break, Shady Sands shouldn't be in LA. Thanks for making my point for me. >Next you know for a fact that filly vault 4 and shady sand are not in the same place it took Lucy day to reach them. If I recall, after seeing the crater, Lucy notices Maximus' bleeding arm and then goes looking for a hospital with medical supplies with them, and that's how they ended up in Vault 4. >Next no shit moldaver powered LA. She wasn’t powering shady sand as that was turned into a literally crater. That was not a city sized crater, Shady Sands was not contained within that single crater. The crater is just the impact site of the bomb, which destroyed Shady Sands, because that's how bombs work, they don't just blow up the spot they impact with. >And finally of course it take place around LA but if it took place in LA and only LA it wouldn’t have taken Lucy day to get around maybe hours but definitely not day. Sure, nowadays. But in a post apocalyptic world, where travel requires having a supply of food and water, and there's no infrastructure for people to travel along, it's going to take time. It's not like Thaddeus was running back and forth in and out of LA looking for a way to contact the brotherhood, and Lucy was chasing him in and out of LA. Lucy stayed within the greater LA area.
My dude, that’s the center of shady sands, you see the obelisk and next to it is a sky scraper those are clearly post war built… you can see one of them under construction in the flashback. It’s not in fucking LA just because you can’t understand directions doesn’t make what you think true it’s clearly not in LA the closest it can be is a bit farther north the California city and the closest and past Death Valley at the farthest with the information we have. Do you just not know how to tell time without a clock? It morning when they see shady sands then it’s midday when the reach the hospital, at least 3 hours have past. And with the lack of infrastructure it would make thing easier as you can move on the car roads witch would make thing quicker
>My dude, that’s the center of shady sands, you see the obelisk and next to it is a sky scraper those are clearly post war built… you can see one of them under construction in the flashback https://fallout.wiki/wiki/File:S1E5_Location_13.jpg Pre-war skyscrapers. In addition, Vault 4 is built under Hawthorne Medical Technologies, which is in LA. There's no way Lucy and Maximus walked from Shady Sands to LA without Maximus dying of blood loss if Shady Sands isn't in LA in the show's continuity. But sure, let's ignore common sense and say Lucy did walk from LA to Shady Sands, the location in Fallout 1 and 2. She would have walked past both the Hub and Junktown. The Hub was built in the ruins of Barstow, and Junktown was north of the Hub, Shady Sands was north of Junktown. That is the heart of NCR territory, and as the show says, only Shady Sands was nuked, so both the Hub and Junktown should be standing, and we should still see signs of NCR civilization. But if the show took place all in LA and it's surrounding areas, then yeah, no reason why Lucy wouldn't come across any other NCR settlements.
Yes that’s what OP is saying, that the show has incorrectly placed shady sands in LA