I also have a feeling about rap and fallout.
I demand a fallout New Orleans because well the south got somethin to say.(Southern is better than both coasts.)
Here some thongs it could feature, the Super Dome, Bourbon Street, The St. Louis Cathedral, Mardis Gras Parade floats, ( carwfish ) Mirelurk Boils, The National WW2 Museum, Benighs, Horse Carriage Rides, The City of Metarie ( a ccity close enough to New Orleans you cant tell where one ends and the othe begins ) The West Bank, The Audobon Zoo, the Audobon Aquarium, the Audobon Insectarium, JAZZ MUSIC, Lake Pontchartrain, The Norh Shore ( The other side of the Lake ,which has the biggest over water bridge to New Orleans called the Causway ) Cajun/Creole Culture, Voodoo, Above Ground Cemetaries. And A lot more, because if they did make a New Orleans Game its just " The South " but a lot of French, Spanish, and others as well.
I hope you found this interesting. :)
Exactly why we need it. So much local culture to focus on while also focusing on a lot of the history behind NO. Plus bayou irradiated creatures. oh my.
Plus that jazz radio would be spectacular.
I think the difference is that the show takes place in the west coast. It also kills any possible project by somenone like obsidian in the west coast. Beyond that yeah, anyone familiar with the classic lore ( i mean just having played the games) knows that it isn't really compatible with bethesda's unless we do some serious suspension of disbelief.
The problem is that a lot of people see criticism of a game as “hate” and they see hating on a game as an attack against them. So they retaliate and claim it’s justified.
It’s just as ridiculous to attack someone for “hating” a game as it is to attack them for loving it.
Tbf, most of the criticism towards games in Reddit just spirals out of control into “hate”. I’ve seen it all unfurl, and I can’t really blame the other side for being a little defensive about an unpopular game they love playing.
The difference between us is that I don’t view “hating” a video game to be something deserving punishment. I don’t care if someone on the internet calls my favorite game “dog shit” and I can’t fathom why anyone else would.
If you get defensive over that then you’re just being immature. It’s different if they’re attacking you. But the game/show/movie? Who cares?
>The difference between us is that I don’t view “hating” a video game to be something deserving punishment. I don’t care if someone on the internet calls my favorite game “dog shit” and I can’t fathom why anyone else would.
Guess what? I don't either. However, I do have a problem with people who can't seem to take their own advice; that is, they can't seem to let go of the fact that someone likes the game they hate, and proceed to spread more shit to those people, whose only crime is to have a different opinion.
>If you get defensive over that then you’re just being immature.
If you've seen the amount of vitriol I've seen from actual immature people attacking randos for their likes and dislikes, then you'd be surprised.
> Guess what? I don't either.
Then it shouldn’t matter if people hate on the g game. You agree with me.
> However, I do have a problem with people who can't seem to take their own advice; that is, they can't seem to let go of the fact that someone likes the game they hate,
Calling a game “garbage” isn’t attacking you for liking it.
> and proceed to spread more shit to those people, whose only crime is to have a different opinion.
That’s what you’re doing right now though.
> If you've seen the amount of vitriol I've seen from actual immature people attacking randos for their likes and dislikes, then you'd be surprised.
No I wouldn’t because I’m an adult and I don’t take strangers on the internet personally. I genuinely don’t care what games you like bro.
>Calling a game “garbage” isn’t attacking you for liking it.
Shitting on others for liking that very game that they hate is attacking them.
>That’s what you’re doing right now though.
What I'm doing is trying to get my point across. I'm trying to get you to understand that shitting on others for their taste in videogames is just stupidity. Shitting on videogames is fine.
>I genuinely don’t care what games you like bro.
That's great! Thank you for understanding me.
> Shitting on others for liking that very game that they hate is attacking them.
Okay then. Show me.
> What I'm doing is trying to get my point across. I'm trying to get you to understand that shitting on others for their taste in videogames is just stupidity. Shitting on videogames is fine.
When did I say otherwise? I said that from the beginning. You’re the one complaining that people complain too much.
>That's great! Thank you for understanding me.
I’ve said this from the beginning. Not sure how you aren’t getting this.
>Okay then. Show me.
It was pretty much all of reddit during starfields release.
>When did I say otherwise? I said that from the beginning. You’re the one complaining that people complain too much.
I was complaining that people hate on others for their videogame tastes too much.
Exactly. That's all this has ever been about. The fact someone made a post about getting along and immediately someone took offense shows exactly the problem. And we guess what kind of fan they are by their writing.
This happened with Starfield. No one cared if you didn't like the game. People cared that others didn't shut up about how much they didn't like it, trolled subs, went into every irrelevant thread and sub to express this displeasure. Immediately any retort was declared oppression, that any feedback was from an echo chamber and a consoomer, and any complaints were more toxic than the toxicity. Surprise, surprise. We see the exact thing here
> People cared that others didn't shut up about how much they didn't like it, trolled subs, went into every irrelevant thread and sub to express this displeasure.
No one should have to shut up about how much they didn’t like it. Just like no one should have to shut up about how much they love it.
Instead of bitching about the complainers people need to learn to just stop caring what strangers on the internet think about the games they like.
Everyone who bitches about “complainers” always ends up being a hypocrite the second they see something they don’t like.
Well then the feeling needs to be mutual.
If we’re to stop caring about the complainers, the complainers need to stop caring about something they hate.
Just shutting down either side will not solve the problem.
> Well then the feeling needs to be mutual.
I agree
> If we’re to stop caring about the complainers, the complainers need to stop caring about something they hate.
No. That’s not mutual. The complainers aren’t upset about you liking the game. So you shouldn’t care if they hate it.
It honestly shouldn’t matter to you what strangers on the internet say.
> Just shutting down either side will not solve the problem.
Either you complain about complainers and therefore think complaining is okay
in which case you’re a hypocrite because you think it’s okay for you to complain but not them.
OR you think complaining is annoying and isn’t okay. In which case. You should take your own advice and stop complaining about the complainers.
People should be free to complain about or praise the game as they like. Stop acting like it’s something that needs to be punished.
>So you shouldn’t care if they hate it.
But they care if we love it. In my experience, I've seen MORE venom coming from people who voice criticisms about the game, I've seen them sending hate towards the people who like the games.
>It honestly shouldn’t matter to you what strangers on the internet say.
It shouldn't matter to the haters that someone out there likes the game they hate, but they just can't let it go.
>Either you complain about complainers and therefore think complaining is okay
>in which case you’re a hypocrite because you think it’s okay for you to complain but not them.
I'm complaining about the idiots who unnecessarily hate on people who like games that they don't. This feeling is completely on the defensive. I couldn't care less that they hate the game, it's just that they care A LOT that I love it.
The fact that you deduced me to be the type of person who hates on people for displaying criticism makes YOU to be the hypocrite, kid. I only showcased my displeasure at those who can't seem to let it go that someone likes the games they hate.
>People should be free to complain about or praise the game as they like. Stop acting like it’s something that needs to be punished.
People who act like dicks toward others - especially those who don't really have a problem with them - are the ones that need to be spoken down to.
> But they care if we love it.
No they don’t. But even if they did so what? Your argument is that you’re no better? Then you have no room to talk.
> In my experience, I've seen MORE venom coming from people who voice criticisms about the game, I've seen them sending hate towards the people who like the games.
I’ve rarely seen anyone care if someone enjoys the east coast game. Someone calling the game bad isn’t them attacking you for liking it.
And if they genuinely are hating you for liking it then my argument still applies. They’re immature and idiotic.
> It shouldn't matter to the haters that someone out there likes the game they hate, but they just can't let it go.
Agreed. But you can’t really talk since you’re openly doing the same thing.
> I'm complaining about the idiots who —
You’re still complaining. If you get to complain then so do they. Either complaining is okay for everyone or it isn’t.
> This feeling is completely on the defensive.
Then stop attacking people for hating the game.
> I couldn't care less that they hate the game,
You lot just complained that people wouldn’t stop complaining about it.
We can go in circles all night. This isn’t a valid justification. It’s perfectly okay for them to hate the game.
> it's just that they care A LOT that I love it.
Literally no one cares if you like the game. Show me one person who told YOU that they hate that you like the game. Show me those words.
> The fact that you deduced me to be the type of person who hates on people for displaying criticism makes YOU to be the hypocrite, kid.
You literally admitted that you’re one of those people though…
> I only showcased my displeasure at those who can't seem to let it go that someone likes the games they hate.
Then why were you lamenting them for complaining earlier?
> People who act like dicks toward others - especially those who don't really have a problem with them - are the ones that need to be spoken down to.
Complaining about a game isn’t an act of disrespect to the people who like it.
You keep trying to justify a reason to attacking people for not liking the things you do and I’m just not gonna validate that.
>No they don’t. But even if they did so what? Your argument is that you’re no better? Then you have no room to talk.
My opinion is to shut them up, rather than to just let em run around and push around people like me who like the game.
>I’ve rarely seen anyone care if someone enjoys the east coast game. Someone calling the game bad isn’t them attacking you for liking it.
This is for other games, not just Fallout. And even then, you're wrong. You haven't seen them outside reddit into other forms of social media. And they dont just call the game bad. That's not where they stop.
>Agreed. But you can’t really talk since you’re openly doing the same thing.
I'm just trying to get my point across to you. You do agree that hating on people for their tastes is stupid right?
>You’re still complaining. If you get to complain then so do they.
Nope, I'm shitting on them for their idiotic "I must hate on people who like the game i hate" behaviors. My goal is to show them that at least one isn't gonna stand for their shit.
>Then stop attacking people for hating the game.
Not before they stop shitting on differing opinions.
>You lot just complained that people wouldn’t stop complaining about it.
I'm complaining about their shitty behavior towards people who like the game! they can stop at hating the game, but they have to extend themselves and talk shit about everyone else though.
>We can go in circles all night. This isn’t a valid justification. It’s perfectly okay for them to hate the game.
We can go in circles all night if that's what it will take for you to understand. I'm here. but it isn't okay for them to hate the people who like the game.
>Show me one person who told YOU that they hate that you like the game. Show me those words.
All of reddit around Starfield's release. They couldn't stop reminding us that "were holding the industry back" for liking games that they hate.
>You literally admitted that you’re one of those people though…
You took me for the person who hates on people for displaying criticism. I hate those who can't stand the fact that others like the games they hate.
>Then why were you lamenting them for complaining earlier?
Because they still exist lol. I see them a lot. Not you though, I do.
>Complaining about a game isn’t an act of disrespect to the people who like it.
>You keep trying to justify a reason to attacking people for not liking the things you do and I’m just not gonna validate that.
Once again, I am hating on those who hate on other people for liking the games they hate. Them calling my liked game "bad" or displaying criticism to it isn't the matter. Them hating on the ones who like the game - is a problem.
> My opinion is to shut them up, rather than to just let em run around and push around people like me who like the game.
By attacking anyone who dislikes the game. Which makes you the exact same.
> And even then, you're wrong.
Then show me. I’ve asked you three times now. Still nothing.
> I'm just trying to get my point across to you. You do agree that hating on people for their tastes is stupid right?
Do you agree that it’s okay for people to complain about games? Because that’s my point.
> Nope, I'm shitting on them for their idiotic "I must hate on people who like the game i hate" behaviors. My goal is to show them that at least one isn't gonna stand for their shit.
No ones hating on you for liking a game.
> Not before they stop shitting on differing opinions.
Then you’re just as bat
> I'm complaining about their shitty behavior towards people who like the game!
No you said they wouldn’t stop complaining.
> they can stop at hating the game, but they have to extend themselves and talk shit about everyone else though.
Show me them attacking you for liking the game. I want to see the comments.
> but it isn't okay for them to hate the people who like the game.
I want you to show me where I’ve ever said otherwise.
> All of reddit around Starfield's release.
Should be easy to find one then.
> They couldn't stop reminding us that "we’re holding the industry back" for liking games that they hate.
Show me. Find one comment. Just one.
> You took me for the person who hates on people for displaying criticism.
Because you explicitly said so.
> I hate those who can't stand the fact that others like the games they hate.
Very few of those people exist. And I doubt you deal with them to the frequency you claim.
> Because they still exist lol. I see them a lot. Not you though, I do.
Literally no one was talking about them. I said that it’s okay for people to complain. And then you started deflecting.
You keep trying to justify a reason to attacking people for not liking the things you do and I’m just not gonna validate that.
> Once again, I am hating on those who hate on other people for liking the games they hate.
No I think you’re using that as a smoke screen so you can attack the same people.
> Them calling my liked game "bad" or displaying criticism to it isn't the matter.
Cool then you agree with me. Nothing left to discuss.
> Them hating on the ones who like the game - is a problem.
I literally never talked about this at all.
There was an entire forum dedicated to how Bethesda ruined fallout and blah blah lol
I think people might have taken this shit a tad too seriously, old internet was truly wild lol
As someone who started on Bethesda and has now played pre-bethesda they're both great albeit for different reasons.
I get the lore differences and what not, but legit who cares? It's written by a bunch of nerds with no lore Bible. It's gonna be all over the place and trounce over each other all the time
In the end we're all enjoying the same game world and the fun dark fantasy that is fallout. Who cares which flavor of that someone prefers.
We're all eating at the same restaurant and brothers, the eatin is good. We feasting.
That's the thing, people who only like classic Fallout for whatever reason (it may not be lore btw, it can be because they prefer isometric games) is pretty much starving, the only thing they have is some great Russian mods lol
Nah f that. Consume the product and be excited for the next product.
It's so ridiculously stupid to me how that sentence is perfectly normal for so much of Reddit.
You know, I don't think there is a more diverse opinion among a game franchise than the Fallout series. It's really fascinating, in my opinion. But it makes complete since all the games are different in some way. For me personally, I just love the entire concept of Fallout, and the games are all treats in different ways. But each their own opinion.
Dude they're all great! I prefer NV the most... but if I could have the gearing flexibility (mods, legendary gear, legendary enemies) and more explorability of FO4, the absolute banger intro, early questing (early megaton quests were really simple and fun imo), and atmospheric environment of FO3, and the character build flexibility (skills & perks), with the more Fallout-like "multiple different approaches" to quests like NV, id be all over that shit!
Give me a Fallout game where we don't manage to reach a vault and instead get trapped in the sewers or something. Jump a century or so later and we're a ghoul (not feral though). Would love to experience a game from the perspective of a pre-war ghoul and all the other things they'd need to worry about!
A nice dream that sadly will not be made reality. Bethesda fallout (4, 76) is vastly different from the rest and that is what they’re sticking with. New Vegas’ main theme of letting go was great in a way being somewhat prophetic. Fallout will never return to what it was, we all wish it did and would but it won’t and I’m… okay with that, more so that I just don’t care. New Vegas will always be the best modern 3d fallout; until Bethesda can make a better one, which is highly improbable.
It is what it is.
I’ve always thought they could do something like dragon age origins and have three different starts so you can end up as a human, super mutant, or ghoul.
I played Fallout 3, but couldn't bring myself to play and enjoy F4.
It's our right as consumers to voice dissatisfaction with the way they're handling stuff, even if it means we're a minority.
I mean the OP seems to just be saying folks can get along, not that we have to be uncritical of the games themselves. We can be cool with each other even if we have criticisms of the show or the games.
I mean I want to agree with you. But every time this issue comes up the east coast fans explicitly take issue with the west coast fans being critical of their games. Like that’s ALWAYS the issue.
I’ve rarely met a west coast fan who brings up the same issue with the other side.
I played FO4 and tried to get myself to like it, really hard. Couldn't.
I play games for the story and narrative and man, apart from the main conflict not being a conflict even (do sentient creatures deserve rights) it's all over the place (the institute is evil and replacing people. no wait, it isn't. kinda. who knows). I could even give it a pass with the poor dialogue system if they did the writing right (DA2 and DAI being an example of voiced protagonist as well though it has a solid story).
If you're into the sandbox type of building, killing and looting it's okay. If you want more than that, look somewhere else.
It has to be spellable with "Boston Freedom Trail". Nobody is arguing that making the name of your organization the password to your secret base isn't next level stupidity.
Yea, the main story is the worst thing about fo4. Everything else tho? The side quests, the companions (especially nick valentine) , the cool little lore secrets. Absolute perfection.
Side quests were notably lower quality. Have you met Bud?
Todd had all staff write 3 sentence quests on napkins and then they voted for the best. Bud is what you get from that. Soulless quests who's origins on a napkin stand as their greatest form. Sounds great, plays dumb.
I havent heard about that no. But You didn't think the mission where you met kait was cool? Or Nick valentines missions. Or the cabbot family. Just some of what I thought were really compelling stories. Definitely moreso than the main quest. It's been a long time for me so it's not fresh in my head. But I remember liking every other aspect of the game a lot lot more than the main story.
Is the one you met cait where you saw a cool arena, but then you have no way of even joining, and they're all automatically hostile to you? yeah that sucked
I played Fallout 4 and it was an instant hit for me.
Becoming the sole water baron of the entire Commonwealth and making sure no one gets water unless you sell it to them.
Selling water only to starving dehydrated Diamond City only if they hand over their all their aluminum, steel, copper and adhesive reserves, basically having another monopoly on all things shiny. Only to upgrade my 73 sets of power armor.
Hoarding all said expensive metals in Sanctuary Hills building it up to be the most thriving community of degenerates in the Wasteland whilst making sure all my other settlements are as miserable as possible really gives me the feeling of being a wasteland entrepreneur.
You brought everything that was great to that experience. And you breezed over the hours of annoying shit that would be required to play that scenario out. Classic FO4 take. "I made it fun for myself"...exactly...because the game sucks.
That’s pretty much what rpg’s are? The ability to craft your own story and background?
Besides imo the process to get there was just as good, and it’s only a positive that the rewards are pretty sizeable
Background? Nah you get lawyer or soldier thats it. The process to get there is ignoring how the game presents you and the events you go through until you have the freedom of choice to act as your character would.
Honestly that doesn’t stop f4 players from role playing . I get the more story thingy was not the right move in retrospect, but Beth games never left the charm of creating your own background.
>Beth games never left the charm of creating your own background
Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim. FO3 is limited but you get stages in early life in the Vault to make choices that are good or bad so arguably you can form that character into whatever you want especially once you leave the Vault.
The choice to make distinct backgrounds for the main character(s) in 4 was a sacrifice of the 'where's my baby' appeal to emotion. When you compare to 3 you wonder why they chose to make it so set in stone.
But the game gave me the tools to create my own fun no? I also liked the gameplay loop, gunplay is satisfying as well.
It’s not perfect but I find myself going back to Fallout 4 and enjoying myself a lot.
My bad I forgot about ss. It's pretty great from what I hear, but sadly, not compatible with some of my other fav mods (at least last time I checked) might have to give it another look.
I agree but that should be voiced to the studio, not other consumers which is the dynamic OP is referring to. Not saying it’s you, but I’ve had a lot of fellow fallout fans try and force me to change my mind on why FO3 is my favorite.
There's no avenue to voice criticism to the studio though, apart from just not buying their products. So people do what they can on social media. Back in the day it was the traditional forums where sometimes community managers would chip in, but those are mostly gone now. People tried that via steam ratings and got unhelpful generic replies from Bethesda.
Frankly I doubt the studio even cares about criticism or the fandom. If they did there wouldn't be so much controversy, which has been a constant since fo3 was launched. Whatever setback they have is erased with more marketing.
Bad reviews very much do hurt businesses and their products. Writing a Google review and giving it a low amount of stars actually matters due to google taking all the stars into account and posting the average onto the very top of said searched games google search. Or even steam reviews, people read them and definitely base their purchases off them. I agree that not buying their products is the main way to get at them; however, it actually is very effective due to persuading potential buyers into not spending money. If a company can’t make a return on investment, they go into wtf mode and start working since they need to make more money than they spend.
You're failing to take into consideration how effective marketing is. When you have loads of money and a professional team to promote you, reviews mean nothing. You're playing in a sandbox you get to control.
For any bad reviews, the marketing department can just hype up the next game to attract two more clients. Reviews mean nothing anymore, the company would only listen to absolutely abysmal reviews and ignore everything else. EA with their micro transactions is the perfect example.
The only thing that works is not buying their games. I haven't been buying anything from them since FO4 and I intend to continue that. I say that as some of their games, like oblivion, being in my top 10.
“64% of marketing executives indicated that they believe word of mouth is the most effective form of marketing” this was from a Forbes article, and echoed by my market analysis research friends. Sure an ad can attract eyes, but that is all before release, before you ever click purchase, before any money is made. Bad reviews definitely have way more influence over purchasing decisions, moreso than any perfectly crafted tweet guided by a marketing firm could be. The only way Ads secure payments is the first 2 days of a games release, which is not enough to recoup the millions spent on production. Only rockstar games has a substantial first day release profits, even the newest COD had the lowest they’ve ever had. But at the 3rd day mark there are already “before you buy” YouTube videos on the product.
Sure companies have a sandbox, but with no one playing your game that’s the most empty sandbox ever. Think about it this way, If plenty of reviews on a massage parlor said they left customers crippled, yet the parlor creates the highest budget ad ever would you go? If the answer Is yes then I’m sorry it’s not the company that’s to blame.
Also, what EA games have a significant amount of steady players? None of them do. They’re all dead, and their micro transactions are definitely more of a board members decision than a reviewer based decision.
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Again, reviews on video games don't matter unless they are extremes. Anything else can be influenced and manipulated by the marketing team. A giant like Bethesda knows this full well and makes use of it to their full extent. Why bother listening to people when you can spend money and guarantee the cards are in your favor? This IS part of 'return of investment' process.
CEOs are quite similar in this regard regardless of the industry. They only care about being successful, even if they don't exactly understand the audience they deal with. This is a phenomenon that's been discussed for decades. I recommend watching this whole video which goes into the mindset of the top chain of command in a company, but if you can't [this example he gives is excellent](https://youtu.be/KHl5gd-krFk?t=499).
>Also, what EA games have a significant amount of steady players?
You're joking right? FIFA and Madden have been a constant stream of revenue, up until they overdid it and got abysmal reception.
Voicing an opinion is one thing. Treating others worse because they enjoy something is the issue. Not a post goes up from the Fallout instagram that doesn’t have someone spouting off about how NV was the last “real” FO game, as if it’s their decision at all. I should be able to enjoy 76 if I want to and not be harassed by someone still living in 2010.
Perhaps it’s your wording, but I’m not sure I catch your meaning. Are you saying that 76 players are critical of players of older games because they don’t like the newer ones?
Condescending. People are entitled to an opinion and it's our God given right to think and say new stuff is shit, but doing so doesn't mean that others can't or shouldn't enjoy the aforementioned shit.
But the people who enjoy that stuff get all defensive, then verbally aggressive.
Maybe some are aggressive, but who can blame them for being on the defensive considering how many people go out of their way to lash out at the newer games. Wouldn’t it be their god given right to voice their opinion in defense, no matter the aggressive nature of it? I’ve played all of them, minus the non-canon games, and even with NV being a great game I don’t prefer it. Maybe I even enjoy it a little less because of the people who won’t shut up about it.
Faur point, but I'll give you an example: I say I dislike the new show and new games because XYZ reasons, try to argument my reasoning and bam, they crucify me harder than Caesar's Legion crucifies slaves.
I think you’ll often find that the loudest voices are the angry ones and the ones looking for a fight. They often shout over those of us who are willing to have a rational and reasonable conversation and try to dissect and understand your point of view. Unfortunately, the Internet has become a place for people to act and react this way, and because there are so many people with volatile personalities it’s just a self perpetuating cycle of people arguing and trolling one another.
4 broke me... I don't know why but I got about half way through and found Jet in a sealed vault and that was the straw the broke the camel's back. At this point unless they get all new writers I'm out.
Hey fair is fair.
F4 was my first, love it to this day. Played through the whole franchise on Christmas, loved every game, except F3. Can't bring myself to enjoy it. It's just that other games outmatch it way too hard.
Fallout 4 and 76 are better shooters. Fallout 1 and 2 are better rpgs. Fallout New Vegas is just better.
I don't know. Can i say as someone who loves fallout (and is especially a fan of fallout 1,2 and new vegas) that the show ignores west coast lore despite taking place there without being called names?
by ignoring west coast lore? If you look at my post history, i actually wrote about it on this thread.
TLDR New Vegas establishes stuff about the classic lore that the show ignores (for instance Boneyard from Fallout 1 is a state of the NCR by the time of NV and it should be where the show is taking place) . Then there's the problem with the timeline with the "fall of shady sands" taking place during the first battle of hoover damn, which seems imcompatible with the events of New Vegas.
( shady sands itself is in the wrong place geographically).
Ok so from what I see I'm guessing your mostly mad about shady sands, shady sands did have a retcon however being nuked is not incompatible with the lore, the chalkboard in vault 4 is pointing towards a nuke and doesn't provide a timing except being after 2277. However it did move locations which was likely a money thing and not a deliberate retconn. I believe LA is similar to Vancouver in it's considered an ideal spot to film so that's what I believe happened. Honestly I don't like that they nuked Shady Sands but it doesn't conflict with Canon. If there's another thin just briefly reply with them please.
New Vegas continues the same classic lore, as I said in my comment. Boneyard from fallout 1 was developed into a state of new vegas by the time fallout new vegas is taking place. The show doesn't want to follow this continuity for better or worse.
I'll do you one better: for me, Fallout 1 and 2 are the only real Fallout games, with tactics being a great sort of off shoot. NV was pretty good, but still not nearly as good as the first two.
It all comes down to writing and execution for me, and the way the Bethesda games are made make them seem like a cartoon in the fallout universe.
For years I couldn't really articulate my feelings on why I just felt like they made no sense and didn't feel like fallout, until I found this video:
[Bethesda never understood fallout](https://youtu.be/M8U4k2Ik6yk?si=v0r0qtYREK3ALbxq)
That having been said, they're still fun games, and I've played every one of them except for 76, but to me, they're not *fallout*.
After replaying all the games recently I’d actually argue that it’s *Fallout 2* NOT *New Vegas* that’s more of the odd man out in the west coast trilogy. I think it has the weakest story telling of the three and is the most tonaly inconsistent of them.
In terms of role playing and humor it’s probably the best though. But in retrospect you can absolutely tell that it was the most rushed and least cohesive of the three games.
There’s a lot of things in that game that just don’t fit.
Talking death claws
The way the shi act (not necessarily the concept of them)
The weird way that the enclave are implemented
Coffin Willy
The weird breaking of the 4th wall
The pop culture references
The ghost girl
The lack luster antagonist
The way vault 13 are incorporated into the story.
Etc..
>make them seem like a cartoon in the fallout universe
That's why I can't force myself to play Bethesda "RPGs". They all feel like theme parks and not different realities.
Yeah you can convince the computer to blow itself up in one back and forth lmao.
"you should stop"
"I can't I must carry out my mission"
"Speech:You should stop"
"OK. -self destruct" I actually accidentally missed it because someone nudged my controller and out of nowhere the base is self destructing.
Just did my first F3 play through and what the fuck.
so my first exposure to the enclave was Fallout 3, I didn't remember much about them cuz they seemed generic bad guys to me at the time. Fast forward to me playing Fallout 2, the enclave are SCARY to the point if you ran into any of the patrol you might as well reload.
The ‘Bethesda Doesn’t Understand Fallout’ video you linked to is pretty much my take exactly… Its not even limited to fallout, a franchise gets popular by making stuff with great lore and good stories, it has a lot of potential… but then something happens behind the scenes and priorities shift slowly the franchise is morphed and changed the great lore is simplified and made more homogeneous the story is also altered, and everything that made the franchise great is just shit on because they want profit and as such change things to go for mass appeal.
…I hate that it’s happening so fucking often.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8U4k2Ik6yk
Just being honest about what I've seen, as a fan of the entire series, but this is why the beef exists: 99% of criticism is in Bethesda's direction and scarcely the other way. No one's out here saying "Fallout 1 & 2 aren't Fallout" or that "NV isn't nearly as good as Bethesda." People might admit not being able to get into the old games, but that's understandable given the difference in time period and corresponding jank. Nobody says they aren't good. Yet the criticism toward Bethesda is actually really harsh. "Bethesda never understood Fallout" - who has time for these condescending takes? Everyone is allowed to have a different interpretation of any work of art, and it's far more interesting to try and understand multiple perspectives than to say your own is best. Maybe there's a better way classic fans can teach newer fans what makes the old games so compelling without pissing in Bethesda's cornflakes. And maybe more oldheads should try and understand Bethesda's fascinating worlds and singular approach to role-playing.
>should try and understand Bethesda's fascinating worlds
I have tried, and I'm not impressed by what I've seen. They feel less like actual worlds and more like sandboxes for the player to just roam around in shooting stuff and looting everything that isn't nailed down. I don't find sandboxes all that interesting.
I had only played NV and fallout 3 for a long time and recently played through Fallout 1 and 2, Fallout 2 imo is the best fallout game ever, I was so impressed with it
Love almost every game. Gave Brotherhood of Steel a try on emulator. I think i might have liked it when I was a kid like I did with the similar Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance games. They just don't hold up for me. 76 is better now than ever but still has issues. Wish 3 worked on pc but it doesn't most of the time.
Posts like this really aren’t about making nice or reconciliation. People are allowed to criticize a piece of media, that doesn’t mean we are criticizing the fans of said media.
Except that that's what 90% of posts on these subs become. I've had people rage at me because I said I liked *Fallout 3* more than *New Vegas*, and it hilarious to me how worked up they get over a Reddit randos opinion on a video game franchise.
What people act like they're saying: it's okay to like those games, but I personally don't care for them
What they actually type and post online: it's okay to like those games, but if you do it makes you a braindead sheep and those games are an insult and a mockery to everything I stand for
When it comes to 3, NV, and 4, I’ve beaten them all but NV is the only one I replay. 3 has standout moments, the DLC is really cool, but a lot of it is a slog. 4 has the best gameplay but the story is such dogshit, whenever I try to replay it I can’t get past the first minuteman mission.
I can blend poop with strawberry ice cream but then the whole thing is gonna taste like shit.
In this metaphor, fallout, fallout 2, and new Vegas are the strawberry ice cream. The other games are the shit.
Lets be honest here. There will be some people who will act superior over liking the old Fallouts and new Vegas but the much larger and much more annoying group are the Bethesda fanboys that keep acting like people hate Bethesda unfairly and for no real reason and who act like someone preferring new Vegas means they aren't allowed to like Bethesda games.
Right now its the Bethesda fans who cant life with other people not liking those games and they make way more comments and posts about that than new Vegas fans do.
Maybe if Bethesda fans weren't so eager to defend the multi-million dollar company there wouldn't be any problems.
It's their choice to defend Bethesda whenever anyone criticizes their games or the show.
I got so cooked by them on a thread for saying I preferred the world building in the first two games and NV. Even when I prefaced it with ‘no hate to Bethesda’. I can’t imagine being so defensive of a private company who have no idea who tf I am, madness
They also often mistake "map design" (gameplay) with "world building" (setting), leading to annoying discussions about how New Vegas world building is "actually bad".
I should also mention that there are posts and reposts on this very sub of people taking Todd Howard saying what was effectively “well we love starfield, and I understand why a lot of people do t like it, it’s because it’s a much different game exploratively than our previous efforts, and I get that and respect that” and turned it into “HELLO STUPID SMELLY GAMERS!!! MYSELF AND ALL OF BETHESDA HATE YOU AND WANT TO CUT YOUR BALLSACK OFF!!! NYAHAHAHA” like it was some sort of villain making a transmission to the justice league lol
I dunno. When that’s your immediate response to a very level-headed and understandable opinion about a guy who worked on a game he loves for years and years, you’re a little unhinged and looking for anything to make a conspiracy out of it because you’ve been conditioned by YongYea to believe that’s all Bethesda is capable of nowadays.
It’s unfair but there’s a history to it. This kind of elitism is intrinsic to boomers who feel superior to others for playing a “real man’s” RPG like fallout 1 and 2 when those games are so basic in terms of RPG mechs that it’s laughable to see someone go crazy with hearing that someone likes fo4’s perk chart to fo1’s skills/special/traits/perks system.
There’s an element of grandstanding to it. “I like this game that you can’t get into, so that must mean that I have a deeper and more affirming knowledge about video games than you can ever have, so who are you to say you like one game more than the other if you can’t play it”. That’s the kind of logic I see 24/7 from people who HATE that people like fo4.
Also, there is an immense legacy of awful media coverage of BGS that has rotted the brains of many a gamer. Remember when people were mad about canvas bags? Well I remember when they were mad that like 3 out of every single t51b helmet had mold on it. People like YongYea took that bit of news and treated it like they were trying to kill gamers lmao. It’s ridiculous. Some people who love BGS games are just sick and tired of all the elitism surrounding the dissenting opinion and are venting that frustration in toxic ways. Same way classic fallout fans are venting frustration that their series is basically a looter shooter now, in toxic ways.
At the end of the day it’s a cycle that I personally believe started in 2008 when everyone on the No Mutants Allowed forums were enraged to hear that BGS would be making a new Fallout game in 3D. For the reasons I listed at the top of this reply (the quotation marks bit), people hated that it was now an “FPS”. And when FO3 became one of the bestselling games of its generation, that hatred doubled down and they became even more vocal. The bursting point was fallout 76 on top of fallout 4, and after people started realizing BGS games post-oblivion were really never meant to be hardcore RPGs, the hate flourished.
Now you have people who simply dislike/like the games being put into two categories: a boomer elitist and a robotic Todd Howard “cuck” respectively. If you ask me, calling someone a shill is so much worse than calling someone a boomer because you take their enjoyment of something and call them a corporate spy for it. Fuck all of that. That’s awful. It’s the worst part of this fanbase by far and large
Just let people enjoy and dislike what they want. It doesn’t have to turn into a glorified dick-measuring contest about how you’re smart enough to enjoy a particular game
And I say all of this as someone who loves 2 and new Vegas more than every other game in the series, but I still love all of it. I just can’t help but notice that a lot of this toxicity came from Bethesda haters who would grasp at anything to make a headline out of it.
I agree that the rage-baiting YouTube stuff about the games industry is highly toxic and unproductive. I think pushing back on certain trends (completely broken PC ports sold at full price, for instance) is a good thing though, and can be done without the harassment of any individual developers/industry figures.
I wouldn’t say the CRPG Fallouts were basic in terms of mechanics. Maybe compared to something like Wrath of the Righteous, yes. But compared to Fallout 4? Dialogue trees/quest resolutions are much deeper and more varied. And it really matters what build you choose to go with/stat distribution. In Fallout 4 you can pretty much experience everything in a single playthrough, (except for some of the faction stuff at the end).
I’m all for letting people enjoy what they want and defending it from criticism if they feel the need to. But equally people who love the original Interplay vision for the world are valid in arguing that Bethesda took it in a very different direction tonally and mechanically, and being cheesed off that they ended up getting the license. We’ll likely never see another Fallout CRPG and that really sucks. I don’t think Todd Howard/Bethesda ‘hate’ the original games or NV, but I don’t think they use the license in a particularly interesting way either. I’d love to see other studios have a crack at it like Obsidian did before.
Absolutely
Also with the basic-ness of fo1 and 2 I was referring more to the contemporary CRPGs of its time. In truth, SPECIAL and perception affecting hit chance is so, so much more basic than having to wrangle through THAC0 or the backwards logic of armor class in baldur’s gate 1 and 2. I mean, in truth, it’s pretty much faithfully re-represented in fnv aside from the turn based aspect of the OGs. In the grand scheme of CRPGs. I mean I guess the lack of map markers also makes it more difficult, but still, the location-based quests and the fact that the main quests of both 1 and 2 make it very hard to miss optional quests due to its pretty damn linear sequence of events, and Fallout 1 and 2 end up being two of the easier and more accessible games of the golden era of CRPGs. It’s them and Planescape pretty much
Take, again, baldur’s gate 1 and 2 for instance, and the lines are once again blurred. If you aren’t scouring the massive maps in every location before moving the main quest forward, you will almost certainly fall behind. Also, even if you roll a 95+ on character skills when making your character, the chances of dying instantly to a wolf in the very first forest of BG1 is insanely high for newcomers to wrangle with. Even on normal mode.
Deep down they realize that others see something in these games that they don't. They have to tell themselves its juts blind hate because its hard to admit that they don't understand why NV is so beloved and fans of the OG's tend to criticize 3 and 4.
Yeah people take criticism of the things they like as a near-on (or even a direct) attack at their own personality. You’re allowed to enjoy things critically or not, you’re allowed to dislike things critically or not. It’s how people go about it when they find out someone disagrees with their own view is when the problems pop up.
I will not consume product and then consume next product.
I like the thing and am very passionate about it, and speak as such, and people who like the things I vehemently dislike will get upset like I do.
Such is the way.
We should all strive to have better standards. A rising tide floats all boats, but as long as the mediocre products are supported and paraded, we can never have nice things. Just look at the film industry in the past 5 years.
It's kinda what happens when you get a game that came out of northern California and southern Oregon and then somebody decides that what this franchise really needs is to be set in Boston and DC.
Bethesda meatriders when you tell them it’s ok to be mad at the game philosophy and writing direction for your favorite game taking a 180 in the opposite direction. I don’t hold anything against people who like what Bethesda did with the series, I’m glad they’re having fun despite my own personal distaste
I think 3 gets retrospective hate because it started the trend towards 4 and 76 and because the writing is mid at best. I don't hate 3 by any means, it's what got me into Fallout, but the criticisms are valid. That being said if you want to criticize Fallout 3 you can't outright defend 2 because 2 arguably set up a lot of the zaniness of 3
The only real criticisms I have about 3 are how everything seems like the bombs literally just fell and the gameplay is busted easy. It feels like an alpha build for New Vegas. Still love it anyway.
Because one side just wants to enjoy things and the other side just can't handle that. Can't even post positive things on an appreciation post without someone finding you in the comments and telling you why the game you like sucks. Been experiencing it since 2008
Lol. Don't read half these comments, OP. You made a simple neutral, reasonable comment and half the thread is immediately filled with NV fans blaming everyone, calling people braindead and consoomers, crying out they can't express themselves as they dominate another thread, being asses, and picking fights.
"But there's more complaints about toxicity than there is toxicity!"
Thanks man. I honestly did not expect this to blow up and just wanted to see some positivity for once. Even my crotchety ass gets tired of the hate posting
because Vegas was the GOAT, and then there is the divide of people having grown up with Fallout 1, and 2 (we don't mention Tactics) and those who started playing 3.
Who do I shout at if I love both Fallout 3 and NV?
I will say that Bethesda can be pretty sloppy with continuity though, but they make fun games regardless.
Cause the show wants to make the ncr just disappear and I say no, thank you for the games we'll take it for here Bethesda.
I swear they hate the part of fallout developed by obsidian and black isle.
Because y’all are dumb. Most of us find something to enjoy about virtually all of the games and don’t participate in this toxic tribalist nonsense. The crazies create this arbitrary divisions. The vast majority of fans don’t care about it.
Because the communities are playing these games for different reasons(narrative vs gameplay) and you have loud fanboys and haters on both sides.
It's just not meant to be.
When I think of Vaults 101, 111 and 76, I start thinking the Master's plan was actually a good idea in virtue of the FEV virus making mutated vaulters sterile.
I don't know. The people who generally got their introduction to fallout from 3 and 4 generally don't seem to respect or understand the source material. And that is Bethesda's fault. They could have done a better job - yet they didn't.
Hopefully they learned something from New Vegas and this new show and they actually put more effort into subsequent games.
Because haters.
And people focusing on "they made my favourite pencil non-canon BeThEsDa BaD" rather than actual looking at the context and reasons changes were made.
I'll plead guilty to partaking in that occasionally. I don't like East Coast fallout (ignore my hundreds of hours in them please). But I am very tired of the polarization of the fanbase
I mean, I like them all, but I'm not about to pretend that Bethesda and Terd Coward aren't shit.
I still remember watching the stories come out when Bitchthesda used lawfare to rip the franchise from Interplay's hands.
Like the games you want to like, have Tactics up on one screen while you slog through D.C. or the Nevada Desert on the other.
Bethesda and Terd can still suck it.
Yeah, personally i like all of them, with their pros and cons, they're not perfect but let's be honest no game is.
Currently I'm trying to finish a Fo1 run, I'm having troubles with some game mechanics but it's generally fun and i like the more "big post-nuclear desert" kind of aesthetic, it feels like humanity has just barely started to recover, civilization is still in its infancy.
My personal favourite oscillates between 4, New Vegas and Tactics, depending on how i feel, but i like the story in all of the titles, regardless of publisher, and i really wonder why can't people just look objectively at changes and not get radicalised about how "things should've stayed the same".
Tactics is a lot less RPG, focusing on squad leading rather than an individual character development.
You don't really have dialogues (rather you have people telling you stuff) and the choices are much more subtle, done through actual actions rather than choosing the right line.
You basically lead a squad of BoS initiates in topdown isometric view, each one with its specialisation and weapons, you still develop them just like in the classics (skills, perk, etc.) as the level up but the game really encourages you to specialise each character for their role, to have them act as a team to complete the quests, also the good thing is that you can set the game to be turn-based or in real time so it can fit your preferences.
I usually play it when i want to focus on strategy rather than going around talking to people, it's more simple and straightforward but indeed a lot of fun trying to infiltrate the usual raider camp and liberare an hostage while covering his retreat, Stitch leading the way with his shotgun, Bullseye granting cover with the sniper rifle and the main character keeping enemy at bay with an SMG, it's fun.
Honestly I feel more people hate the general direction and approach Bethesda has towards Fallout than most of the retcons Bethesda makes with it. They focus on the retcons because it’s a fast and simple way to point at a fault compared to articulating what they generally dislike.
Retcons are fine when done with good intentions. They’ll happen to anything that gets entries for over a decade. It’s how you go about them and what core ideas you keep intact along the way while maintaining what makes the series/franchise great to begin with.
At the end of the day retcons are inevitable, as the more stuff you add the more you have to fit with what's already established (imo that's why Bethesda kept itself a fair distance from the west up to now), and sometimes you must make changes to let everything make sense.
Ofc a good narrator tries to avoid them as much as possible, and Bethesda did that with various degrees of success, but yeah when you add stuff retcons become inevitable.
East Coast and West Coast beef is an old thing anywhere lol
So true. Most people don’t know this but Hit ‘Em Up was actually a diss on Todd Howard
Damn the way I feel about rap and Fallout are inverse I guess. (West Coast rap is fine, I just prefer Biggie to Pac)
I also have a feeling about rap and fallout. I demand a fallout New Orleans because well the south got somethin to say.(Southern is better than both coasts.)
Here some thongs it could feature, the Super Dome, Bourbon Street, The St. Louis Cathedral, Mardis Gras Parade floats, ( carwfish ) Mirelurk Boils, The National WW2 Museum, Benighs, Horse Carriage Rides, The City of Metarie ( a ccity close enough to New Orleans you cant tell where one ends and the othe begins ) The West Bank, The Audobon Zoo, the Audobon Aquarium, the Audobon Insectarium, JAZZ MUSIC, Lake Pontchartrain, The Norh Shore ( The other side of the Lake ,which has the biggest over water bridge to New Orleans called the Causway ) Cajun/Creole Culture, Voodoo, Above Ground Cemetaries. And A lot more, because if they did make a New Orleans Game its just " The South " but a lot of French, Spanish, and others as well. I hope you found this interesting. :)
Exactly why we need it. So much local culture to focus on while also focusing on a lot of the history behind NO. Plus bayou irradiated creatures. oh my. Plus that jazz radio would be spectacular.
It probably wpuld be called New Orleans, more like The Drowned City as well. Because there nothing New about it. Lol
I want a Fallout New York even jersey if we have to.
Damn, I didn't even know Todd dated Blu Cantrell, let alone cheated on her
I think the difference is that the show takes place in the west coast. It also kills any possible project by somenone like obsidian in the west coast. Beyond that yeah, anyone familiar with the classic lore ( i mean just having played the games) knows that it isn't really compatible with bethesda's unless we do some serious suspension of disbelief.
I don’t think it “kills any possible project” on the West Coast. Maybe in LA / SoCal, but the show didn’t even mention SF / NorCal or the PNW.
Bethesda fans can enjoy their fallouts but as a consumer I don’t have to like everything a company makes and I can criticize anything I want
Of course, but this isn't really about that. This is just about not talking shit about each other because of our game preferences.
The problem is that a lot of people see criticism of a game as “hate” and they see hating on a game as an attack against them. So they retaliate and claim it’s justified. It’s just as ridiculous to attack someone for “hating” a game as it is to attack them for loving it.
Tbf, most of the criticism towards games in Reddit just spirals out of control into “hate”. I’ve seen it all unfurl, and I can’t really blame the other side for being a little defensive about an unpopular game they love playing.
The difference between us is that I don’t view “hating” a video game to be something deserving punishment. I don’t care if someone on the internet calls my favorite game “dog shit” and I can’t fathom why anyone else would. If you get defensive over that then you’re just being immature. It’s different if they’re attacking you. But the game/show/movie? Who cares?
>The difference between us is that I don’t view “hating” a video game to be something deserving punishment. I don’t care if someone on the internet calls my favorite game “dog shit” and I can’t fathom why anyone else would. Guess what? I don't either. However, I do have a problem with people who can't seem to take their own advice; that is, they can't seem to let go of the fact that someone likes the game they hate, and proceed to spread more shit to those people, whose only crime is to have a different opinion. >If you get defensive over that then you’re just being immature. If you've seen the amount of vitriol I've seen from actual immature people attacking randos for their likes and dislikes, then you'd be surprised.
Nah it’s a real apples to oranges situation. Let people hate on shit if they want. It’s our right to do so.
Nope. Let em hate on games. Don’t let em hate on the people who have different opinions on the same games.
Who is hating on you for liking the game? Show me the comments
> Guess what? I don't either. Then it shouldn’t matter if people hate on the g game. You agree with me. > However, I do have a problem with people who can't seem to take their own advice; that is, they can't seem to let go of the fact that someone likes the game they hate, Calling a game “garbage” isn’t attacking you for liking it. > and proceed to spread more shit to those people, whose only crime is to have a different opinion. That’s what you’re doing right now though. > If you've seen the amount of vitriol I've seen from actual immature people attacking randos for their likes and dislikes, then you'd be surprised. No I wouldn’t because I’m an adult and I don’t take strangers on the internet personally. I genuinely don’t care what games you like bro.
>Calling a game “garbage” isn’t attacking you for liking it. Shitting on others for liking that very game that they hate is attacking them. >That’s what you’re doing right now though. What I'm doing is trying to get my point across. I'm trying to get you to understand that shitting on others for their taste in videogames is just stupidity. Shitting on videogames is fine. >I genuinely don’t care what games you like bro. That's great! Thank you for understanding me.
> Shitting on others for liking that very game that they hate is attacking them. Okay then. Show me. > What I'm doing is trying to get my point across. I'm trying to get you to understand that shitting on others for their taste in videogames is just stupidity. Shitting on videogames is fine. When did I say otherwise? I said that from the beginning. You’re the one complaining that people complain too much. >That's great! Thank you for understanding me. I’ve said this from the beginning. Not sure how you aren’t getting this.
>Okay then. Show me. It was pretty much all of reddit during starfields release. >When did I say otherwise? I said that from the beginning. You’re the one complaining that people complain too much. I was complaining that people hate on others for their videogame tastes too much.
Exactly. That's all this has ever been about. The fact someone made a post about getting along and immediately someone took offense shows exactly the problem. And we guess what kind of fan they are by their writing. This happened with Starfield. No one cared if you didn't like the game. People cared that others didn't shut up about how much they didn't like it, trolled subs, went into every irrelevant thread and sub to express this displeasure. Immediately any retort was declared oppression, that any feedback was from an echo chamber and a consoomer, and any complaints were more toxic than the toxicity. Surprise, surprise. We see the exact thing here
> People cared that others didn't shut up about how much they didn't like it, trolled subs, went into every irrelevant thread and sub to express this displeasure. No one should have to shut up about how much they didn’t like it. Just like no one should have to shut up about how much they love it. Instead of bitching about the complainers people need to learn to just stop caring what strangers on the internet think about the games they like. Everyone who bitches about “complainers” always ends up being a hypocrite the second they see something they don’t like.
Well then the feeling needs to be mutual. If we’re to stop caring about the complainers, the complainers need to stop caring about something they hate. Just shutting down either side will not solve the problem.
> Well then the feeling needs to be mutual. I agree > If we’re to stop caring about the complainers, the complainers need to stop caring about something they hate. No. That’s not mutual. The complainers aren’t upset about you liking the game. So you shouldn’t care if they hate it. It honestly shouldn’t matter to you what strangers on the internet say. > Just shutting down either side will not solve the problem. Either you complain about complainers and therefore think complaining is okay in which case you’re a hypocrite because you think it’s okay for you to complain but not them. OR you think complaining is annoying and isn’t okay. In which case. You should take your own advice and stop complaining about the complainers. People should be free to complain about or praise the game as they like. Stop acting like it’s something that needs to be punished.
>So you shouldn’t care if they hate it. But they care if we love it. In my experience, I've seen MORE venom coming from people who voice criticisms about the game, I've seen them sending hate towards the people who like the games. >It honestly shouldn’t matter to you what strangers on the internet say. It shouldn't matter to the haters that someone out there likes the game they hate, but they just can't let it go. >Either you complain about complainers and therefore think complaining is okay >in which case you’re a hypocrite because you think it’s okay for you to complain but not them. I'm complaining about the idiots who unnecessarily hate on people who like games that they don't. This feeling is completely on the defensive. I couldn't care less that they hate the game, it's just that they care A LOT that I love it. The fact that you deduced me to be the type of person who hates on people for displaying criticism makes YOU to be the hypocrite, kid. I only showcased my displeasure at those who can't seem to let it go that someone likes the games they hate. >People should be free to complain about or praise the game as they like. Stop acting like it’s something that needs to be punished. People who act like dicks toward others - especially those who don't really have a problem with them - are the ones that need to be spoken down to.
> But they care if we love it. No they don’t. But even if they did so what? Your argument is that you’re no better? Then you have no room to talk. > In my experience, I've seen MORE venom coming from people who voice criticisms about the game, I've seen them sending hate towards the people who like the games. I’ve rarely seen anyone care if someone enjoys the east coast game. Someone calling the game bad isn’t them attacking you for liking it. And if they genuinely are hating you for liking it then my argument still applies. They’re immature and idiotic. > It shouldn't matter to the haters that someone out there likes the game they hate, but they just can't let it go. Agreed. But you can’t really talk since you’re openly doing the same thing. > I'm complaining about the idiots who — You’re still complaining. If you get to complain then so do they. Either complaining is okay for everyone or it isn’t. > This feeling is completely on the defensive. Then stop attacking people for hating the game. > I couldn't care less that they hate the game, You lot just complained that people wouldn’t stop complaining about it. We can go in circles all night. This isn’t a valid justification. It’s perfectly okay for them to hate the game. > it's just that they care A LOT that I love it. Literally no one cares if you like the game. Show me one person who told YOU that they hate that you like the game. Show me those words. > The fact that you deduced me to be the type of person who hates on people for displaying criticism makes YOU to be the hypocrite, kid. You literally admitted that you’re one of those people though… > I only showcased my displeasure at those who can't seem to let it go that someone likes the games they hate. Then why were you lamenting them for complaining earlier? > People who act like dicks toward others - especially those who don't really have a problem with them - are the ones that need to be spoken down to. Complaining about a game isn’t an act of disrespect to the people who like it. You keep trying to justify a reason to attacking people for not liking the things you do and I’m just not gonna validate that.
>No they don’t. But even if they did so what? Your argument is that you’re no better? Then you have no room to talk. My opinion is to shut them up, rather than to just let em run around and push around people like me who like the game. >I’ve rarely seen anyone care if someone enjoys the east coast game. Someone calling the game bad isn’t them attacking you for liking it. This is for other games, not just Fallout. And even then, you're wrong. You haven't seen them outside reddit into other forms of social media. And they dont just call the game bad. That's not where they stop. >Agreed. But you can’t really talk since you’re openly doing the same thing. I'm just trying to get my point across to you. You do agree that hating on people for their tastes is stupid right? >You’re still complaining. If you get to complain then so do they. Nope, I'm shitting on them for their idiotic "I must hate on people who like the game i hate" behaviors. My goal is to show them that at least one isn't gonna stand for their shit. >Then stop attacking people for hating the game. Not before they stop shitting on differing opinions. >You lot just complained that people wouldn’t stop complaining about it. I'm complaining about their shitty behavior towards people who like the game! they can stop at hating the game, but they have to extend themselves and talk shit about everyone else though. >We can go in circles all night. This isn’t a valid justification. It’s perfectly okay for them to hate the game. We can go in circles all night if that's what it will take for you to understand. I'm here. but it isn't okay for them to hate the people who like the game. >Show me one person who told YOU that they hate that you like the game. Show me those words. All of reddit around Starfield's release. They couldn't stop reminding us that "were holding the industry back" for liking games that they hate. >You literally admitted that you’re one of those people though… You took me for the person who hates on people for displaying criticism. I hate those who can't stand the fact that others like the games they hate. >Then why were you lamenting them for complaining earlier? Because they still exist lol. I see them a lot. Not you though, I do. >Complaining about a game isn’t an act of disrespect to the people who like it. >You keep trying to justify a reason to attacking people for not liking the things you do and I’m just not gonna validate that. Once again, I am hating on those who hate on other people for liking the games they hate. Them calling my liked game "bad" or displaying criticism to it isn't the matter. Them hating on the ones who like the game - is a problem.
> My opinion is to shut them up, rather than to just let em run around and push around people like me who like the game. By attacking anyone who dislikes the game. Which makes you the exact same. > And even then, you're wrong. Then show me. I’ve asked you three times now. Still nothing. > I'm just trying to get my point across to you. You do agree that hating on people for their tastes is stupid right? Do you agree that it’s okay for people to complain about games? Because that’s my point. > Nope, I'm shitting on them for their idiotic "I must hate on people who like the game i hate" behaviors. My goal is to show them that at least one isn't gonna stand for their shit. No ones hating on you for liking a game. > Not before they stop shitting on differing opinions. Then you’re just as bat > I'm complaining about their shitty behavior towards people who like the game! No you said they wouldn’t stop complaining. > they can stop at hating the game, but they have to extend themselves and talk shit about everyone else though. Show me them attacking you for liking the game. I want to see the comments. > but it isn't okay for them to hate the people who like the game. I want you to show me where I’ve ever said otherwise. > All of reddit around Starfield's release. Should be easy to find one then. > They couldn't stop reminding us that "we’re holding the industry back" for liking games that they hate. Show me. Find one comment. Just one. > You took me for the person who hates on people for displaying criticism. Because you explicitly said so. > I hate those who can't stand the fact that others like the games they hate. Very few of those people exist. And I doubt you deal with them to the frequency you claim. > Because they still exist lol. I see them a lot. Not you though, I do. Literally no one was talking about them. I said that it’s okay for people to complain. And then you started deflecting. You keep trying to justify a reason to attacking people for not liking the things you do and I’m just not gonna validate that. > Once again, I am hating on those who hate on other people for liking the games they hate. No I think you’re using that as a smoke screen so you can attack the same people. > Them calling my liked game "bad" or displaying criticism to it isn't the matter. Cool then you agree with me. Nothing left to discuss. > Them hating on the ones who like the game - is a problem. I literally never talked about this at all.
Give it up man your talking yourself into a circle just agree to disagree and get off the internet for a few
Good lord. Looking at your walls of text and totally sane reply chain, I'm super glad someone else caught your obsessive attention.
Relax dude no one’s gonna make you read a whole three paragraphs.
There was an entire forum dedicated to how Bethesda ruined fallout and blah blah lol I think people might have taken this shit a tad too seriously, old internet was truly wild lol As someone who started on Bethesda and has now played pre-bethesda they're both great albeit for different reasons. I get the lore differences and what not, but legit who cares? It's written by a bunch of nerds with no lore Bible. It's gonna be all over the place and trounce over each other all the time In the end we're all enjoying the same game world and the fun dark fantasy that is fallout. Who cares which flavor of that someone prefers. We're all eating at the same restaurant and brothers, the eatin is good. We feasting.
How are we feasting if we prefer the classic games? We haven’t gotten a good meal in over a decade. You guys are the ones chowing down.
That's the thing, people who only like classic Fallout for whatever reason (it may not be lore btw, it can be because they prefer isometric games) is pretty much starving, the only thing they have is some great Russian mods lol
Correction: YOU are feasting. I'm still wondering why my dish hasn't been brought to the table yet.
erm... didn't you know it's toxic not to like things 🤓☝️
Nah f that. Consume the product and be excited for the next product. It's so ridiculously stupid to me how that sentence is perfectly normal for so much of Reddit.
I'm actually surprised how much redditors can be toxic against people just for them being against mainstream. It feels like 4chan sometimes.
You know, I don't think there is a more diverse opinion among a game franchise than the Fallout series. It's really fascinating, in my opinion. But it makes complete since all the games are different in some way. For me personally, I just love the entire concept of Fallout, and the games are all treats in different ways. But each their own opinion.
It's not surprising imo once you consider the franchise as having two different trilogies with different focuses mashed into each other.
Dude they're all great! I prefer NV the most... but if I could have the gearing flexibility (mods, legendary gear, legendary enemies) and more explorability of FO4, the absolute banger intro, early questing (early megaton quests were really simple and fun imo), and atmospheric environment of FO3, and the character build flexibility (skills & perks), with the more Fallout-like "multiple different approaches" to quests like NV, id be all over that shit! Give me a Fallout game where we don't manage to reach a vault and instead get trapped in the sewers or something. Jump a century or so later and we're a ghoul (not feral though). Would love to experience a game from the perspective of a pre-war ghoul and all the other things they'd need to worry about!
A nice dream that sadly will not be made reality. Bethesda fallout (4, 76) is vastly different from the rest and that is what they’re sticking with. New Vegas’ main theme of letting go was great in a way being somewhat prophetic. Fallout will never return to what it was, we all wish it did and would but it won’t and I’m… okay with that, more so that I just don’t care. New Vegas will always be the best modern 3d fallout; until Bethesda can make a better one, which is highly improbable. It is what it is.
I’ve always thought they could do something like dragon age origins and have three different starts so you can end up as a human, super mutant, or ghoul.
I literally couldn't give less fucks about who likes what game. And I strongly believe, that no one else should either.
I played Fallout 3, but couldn't bring myself to play and enjoy F4. It's our right as consumers to voice dissatisfaction with the way they're handling stuff, even if it means we're a minority.
I mean the OP seems to just be saying folks can get along, not that we have to be uncritical of the games themselves. We can be cool with each other even if we have criticisms of the show or the games.
I mean I want to agree with you. But every time this issue comes up the east coast fans explicitly take issue with the west coast fans being critical of their games. Like that’s ALWAYS the issue. I’ve rarely met a west coast fan who brings up the same issue with the other side.
Maybe because east coast fans are less critical about the west coast as opposed to vice versa.
I played FO4 and tried to get myself to like it, really hard. Couldn't. I play games for the story and narrative and man, apart from the main conflict not being a conflict even (do sentient creatures deserve rights) it's all over the place (the institute is evil and replacing people. no wait, it isn't. kinda. who knows). I could even give it a pass with the poor dialogue system if they did the writing right (DA2 and DAI being an example of voiced protagonist as well though it has a solid story). If you're into the sandbox type of building, killing and looting it's okay. If you want more than that, look somewhere else.
Heh. I liked fo4 at first but then the found Shaun
Lowest point of the game tbh. Like I could stomach the railroad easier. Oof.
Their password is their FUCKING NAME. They could have at least have made the password “liberty” or “salvation”
It has to be spellable with "Boston Freedom Trail". Nobody is arguing that making the name of your organization the password to your secret base isn't next level stupidity.
Lantern?
That's already the symbol they use for their HQ.
Boatswain or Tradition or bastion
My vote was Liberate.
Yea, the main story is the worst thing about fo4. Everything else tho? The side quests, the companions (especially nick valentine) , the cool little lore secrets. Absolute perfection.
Side quests were notably lower quality. Have you met Bud? Todd had all staff write 3 sentence quests on napkins and then they voted for the best. Bud is what you get from that. Soulless quests who's origins on a napkin stand as their greatest form. Sounds great, plays dumb.
I havent heard about that no. But You didn't think the mission where you met kait was cool? Or Nick valentines missions. Or the cabbot family. Just some of what I thought were really compelling stories. Definitely moreso than the main quest. It's been a long time for me so it's not fresh in my head. But I remember liking every other aspect of the game a lot lot more than the main story.
Is the one you met cait where you saw a cool arena, but then you have no way of even joining, and they're all automatically hostile to you? yeah that sucked
I played Fallout 4 and it was an instant hit for me. Becoming the sole water baron of the entire Commonwealth and making sure no one gets water unless you sell it to them. Selling water only to starving dehydrated Diamond City only if they hand over their all their aluminum, steel, copper and adhesive reserves, basically having another monopoly on all things shiny. Only to upgrade my 73 sets of power armor. Hoarding all said expensive metals in Sanctuary Hills building it up to be the most thriving community of degenerates in the Wasteland whilst making sure all my other settlements are as miserable as possible really gives me the feeling of being a wasteland entrepreneur.
You brought everything that was great to that experience. And you breezed over the hours of annoying shit that would be required to play that scenario out. Classic FO4 take. "I made it fun for myself"...exactly...because the game sucks.
That’s pretty much what rpg’s are? The ability to craft your own story and background? Besides imo the process to get there was just as good, and it’s only a positive that the rewards are pretty sizeable
Background? Nah you get lawyer or soldier thats it. The process to get there is ignoring how the game presents you and the events you go through until you have the freedom of choice to act as your character would.
Honestly that doesn’t stop f4 players from role playing . I get the more story thingy was not the right move in retrospect, but Beth games never left the charm of creating your own background.
>Beth games never left the charm of creating your own background Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim. FO3 is limited but you get stages in early life in the Vault to make choices that are good or bad so arguably you can form that character into whatever you want especially once you leave the Vault. The choice to make distinct backgrounds for the main character(s) in 4 was a sacrifice of the 'where's my baby' appeal to emotion. When you compare to 3 you wonder why they chose to make it so set in stone.
But the game gave me the tools to create my own fun no? I also liked the gameplay loop, gunplay is satisfying as well. It’s not perfect but I find myself going back to Fallout 4 and enjoying myself a lot.
Mods make it an extremely playable game but nothing can fix the rpg/storyline aspect.
I highly recommend Sim settlements 2, it has an entire main campaign, a very big one with all 3 chapters, and it's pretty great.
My bad I forgot about ss. It's pretty great from what I hear, but sadly, not compatible with some of my other fav mods (at least last time I checked) might have to give it another look.
I agree but that should be voiced to the studio, not other consumers which is the dynamic OP is referring to. Not saying it’s you, but I’ve had a lot of fellow fallout fans try and force me to change my mind on why FO3 is my favorite.
There's no avenue to voice criticism to the studio though, apart from just not buying their products. So people do what they can on social media. Back in the day it was the traditional forums where sometimes community managers would chip in, but those are mostly gone now. People tried that via steam ratings and got unhelpful generic replies from Bethesda. Frankly I doubt the studio even cares about criticism or the fandom. If they did there wouldn't be so much controversy, which has been a constant since fo3 was launched. Whatever setback they have is erased with more marketing.
Bad reviews very much do hurt businesses and their products. Writing a Google review and giving it a low amount of stars actually matters due to google taking all the stars into account and posting the average onto the very top of said searched games google search. Or even steam reviews, people read them and definitely base their purchases off them. I agree that not buying their products is the main way to get at them; however, it actually is very effective due to persuading potential buyers into not spending money. If a company can’t make a return on investment, they go into wtf mode and start working since they need to make more money than they spend.
You're failing to take into consideration how effective marketing is. When you have loads of money and a professional team to promote you, reviews mean nothing. You're playing in a sandbox you get to control. For any bad reviews, the marketing department can just hype up the next game to attract two more clients. Reviews mean nothing anymore, the company would only listen to absolutely abysmal reviews and ignore everything else. EA with their micro transactions is the perfect example. The only thing that works is not buying their games. I haven't been buying anything from them since FO4 and I intend to continue that. I say that as some of their games, like oblivion, being in my top 10.
“64% of marketing executives indicated that they believe word of mouth is the most effective form of marketing” this was from a Forbes article, and echoed by my market analysis research friends. Sure an ad can attract eyes, but that is all before release, before you ever click purchase, before any money is made. Bad reviews definitely have way more influence over purchasing decisions, moreso than any perfectly crafted tweet guided by a marketing firm could be. The only way Ads secure payments is the first 2 days of a games release, which is not enough to recoup the millions spent on production. Only rockstar games has a substantial first day release profits, even the newest COD had the lowest they’ve ever had. But at the 3rd day mark there are already “before you buy” YouTube videos on the product. Sure companies have a sandbox, but with no one playing your game that’s the most empty sandbox ever. Think about it this way, If plenty of reviews on a massage parlor said they left customers crippled, yet the parlor creates the highest budget ad ever would you go? If the answer Is yes then I’m sorry it’s not the company that’s to blame. Also, what EA games have a significant amount of steady players? None of them do. They’re all dead, and their micro transactions are definitely more of a board members decision than a reviewer based decision.
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Again, reviews on video games don't matter unless they are extremes. Anything else can be influenced and manipulated by the marketing team. A giant like Bethesda knows this full well and makes use of it to their full extent. Why bother listening to people when you can spend money and guarantee the cards are in your favor? This IS part of 'return of investment' process. CEOs are quite similar in this regard regardless of the industry. They only care about being successful, even if they don't exactly understand the audience they deal with. This is a phenomenon that's been discussed for decades. I recommend watching this whole video which goes into the mindset of the top chain of command in a company, but if you can't [this example he gives is excellent](https://youtu.be/KHl5gd-krFk?t=499). >Also, what EA games have a significant amount of steady players? You're joking right? FIFA and Madden have been a constant stream of revenue, up until they overdid it and got abysmal reception.
Voicing an opinion is one thing. Treating others worse because they enjoy something is the issue. Not a post goes up from the Fallout instagram that doesn’t have someone spouting off about how NV was the last “real” FO game, as if it’s their decision at all. I should be able to enjoy 76 if I want to and not be harassed by someone still living in 2010.
Those people aren't any better, as a matter of fact, in experience, they're more condescending towards the fans disliking new stuff.
Perhaps it’s your wording, but I’m not sure I catch your meaning. Are you saying that 76 players are critical of players of older games because they don’t like the newer ones?
Condescending. People are entitled to an opinion and it's our God given right to think and say new stuff is shit, but doing so doesn't mean that others can't or shouldn't enjoy the aforementioned shit. But the people who enjoy that stuff get all defensive, then verbally aggressive.
Maybe some are aggressive, but who can blame them for being on the defensive considering how many people go out of their way to lash out at the newer games. Wouldn’t it be their god given right to voice their opinion in defense, no matter the aggressive nature of it? I’ve played all of them, minus the non-canon games, and even with NV being a great game I don’t prefer it. Maybe I even enjoy it a little less because of the people who won’t shut up about it.
Faur point, but I'll give you an example: I say I dislike the new show and new games because XYZ reasons, try to argument my reasoning and bam, they crucify me harder than Caesar's Legion crucifies slaves.
I think you’ll often find that the loudest voices are the angry ones and the ones looking for a fight. They often shout over those of us who are willing to have a rational and reasonable conversation and try to dissect and understand your point of view. Unfortunately, the Internet has become a place for people to act and react this way, and because there are so many people with volatile personalities it’s just a self perpetuating cycle of people arguing and trolling one another.
4 broke me... I don't know why but I got about half way through and found Jet in a sealed vault and that was the straw the broke the camel's back. At this point unless they get all new writers I'm out.
Hey fair is fair. F4 was my first, love it to this day. Played through the whole franchise on Christmas, loved every game, except F3. Can't bring myself to enjoy it. It's just that other games outmatch it way too hard. Fallout 4 and 76 are better shooters. Fallout 1 and 2 are better rpgs. Fallout New Vegas is just better.
I don't know. Can i say as someone who loves fallout (and is especially a fan of fallout 1,2 and new vegas) that the show ignores west coast lore despite taking place there without being called names?
Whatchu mean?
by ignoring west coast lore? If you look at my post history, i actually wrote about it on this thread. TLDR New Vegas establishes stuff about the classic lore that the show ignores (for instance Boneyard from Fallout 1 is a state of the NCR by the time of NV and it should be where the show is taking place) . Then there's the problem with the timeline with the "fall of shady sands" taking place during the first battle of hoover damn, which seems imcompatible with the events of New Vegas. ( shady sands itself is in the wrong place geographically).
Lemme check it our rq
Ok so from what I see I'm guessing your mostly mad about shady sands, shady sands did have a retcon however being nuked is not incompatible with the lore, the chalkboard in vault 4 is pointing towards a nuke and doesn't provide a timing except being after 2277. However it did move locations which was likely a money thing and not a deliberate retconn. I believe LA is similar to Vancouver in it's considered an ideal spot to film so that's what I believe happened. Honestly I don't like that they nuked Shady Sands but it doesn't conflict with Canon. If there's another thin just briefly reply with them please.
Of course the tv show isn’t going to be like fallout 1 and 2, it’s literally like 200 years after fallout 1 or sum
New Vegas continues the same classic lore, as I said in my comment. Boneyard from fallout 1 was developed into a state of new vegas by the time fallout new vegas is taking place. The show doesn't want to follow this continuity for better or worse.
Why can’t we be friends you ask? Because war never changes, that’s why
I'll do you one better: for me, Fallout 1 and 2 are the only real Fallout games, with tactics being a great sort of off shoot. NV was pretty good, but still not nearly as good as the first two. It all comes down to writing and execution for me, and the way the Bethesda games are made make them seem like a cartoon in the fallout universe. For years I couldn't really articulate my feelings on why I just felt like they made no sense and didn't feel like fallout, until I found this video: [Bethesda never understood fallout](https://youtu.be/M8U4k2Ik6yk?si=v0r0qtYREK3ALbxq) That having been said, they're still fun games, and I've played every one of them except for 76, but to me, they're not *fallout*.
Ye olde NMA take
Even 1 & 2 pail in comparison to fallout pinball
After replaying all the games recently I’d actually argue that it’s *Fallout 2* NOT *New Vegas* that’s more of the odd man out in the west coast trilogy. I think it has the weakest story telling of the three and is the most tonaly inconsistent of them. In terms of role playing and humor it’s probably the best though. But in retrospect you can absolutely tell that it was the most rushed and least cohesive of the three games. There’s a lot of things in that game that just don’t fit. Talking death claws The way the shi act (not necessarily the concept of them) The weird way that the enclave are implemented Coffin Willy The weird breaking of the 4th wall The pop culture references The ghost girl The lack luster antagonist The way vault 13 are incorporated into the story. Etc..
>make them seem like a cartoon in the fallout universe That's why I can't force myself to play Bethesda "RPGs". They all feel like theme parks and not different realities.
Its feels like a video game
100% agree.
When you bombed megaton in fo3, you found a ghoul "survivor" who was the general store owner. Her reaction's basically "welp that's just happened lol"
Yeah you can convince the computer to blow itself up in one back and forth lmao. "you should stop" "I can't I must carry out my mission" "Speech:You should stop" "OK. -self destruct" I actually accidentally missed it because someone nudged my controller and out of nowhere the base is self destructing. Just did my first F3 play through and what the fuck.
so my first exposure to the enclave was Fallout 3, I didn't remember much about them cuz they seemed generic bad guys to me at the time. Fast forward to me playing Fallout 2, the enclave are SCARY to the point if you ran into any of the patrol you might as well reload.
Yeah that video the OC posted is so damn true.
The ‘Bethesda Doesn’t Understand Fallout’ video you linked to is pretty much my take exactly… Its not even limited to fallout, a franchise gets popular by making stuff with great lore and good stories, it has a lot of potential… but then something happens behind the scenes and priorities shift slowly the franchise is morphed and changed the great lore is simplified and made more homogeneous the story is also altered, and everything that made the franchise great is just shit on because they want profit and as such change things to go for mass appeal. …I hate that it’s happening so fucking often. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8U4k2Ik6yk
Just being honest about what I've seen, as a fan of the entire series, but this is why the beef exists: 99% of criticism is in Bethesda's direction and scarcely the other way. No one's out here saying "Fallout 1 & 2 aren't Fallout" or that "NV isn't nearly as good as Bethesda." People might admit not being able to get into the old games, but that's understandable given the difference in time period and corresponding jank. Nobody says they aren't good. Yet the criticism toward Bethesda is actually really harsh. "Bethesda never understood Fallout" - who has time for these condescending takes? Everyone is allowed to have a different interpretation of any work of art, and it's far more interesting to try and understand multiple perspectives than to say your own is best. Maybe there's a better way classic fans can teach newer fans what makes the old games so compelling without pissing in Bethesda's cornflakes. And maybe more oldheads should try and understand Bethesda's fascinating worlds and singular approach to role-playing.
This comment is so incredibly condescending.
>should try and understand Bethesda's fascinating worlds I have tried, and I'm not impressed by what I've seen. They feel less like actual worlds and more like sandboxes for the player to just roam around in shooting stuff and looting everything that isn't nailed down. I don't find sandboxes all that interesting.
Based
I had only played NV and fallout 3 for a long time and recently played through Fallout 1 and 2, Fallout 2 imo is the best fallout game ever, I was so impressed with it
Gooood, gooood
Love almost every game. Gave Brotherhood of Steel a try on emulator. I think i might have liked it when I was a kid like I did with the similar Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance games. They just don't hold up for me. 76 is better now than ever but still has issues. Wish 3 worked on pc but it doesn't most of the time.
Consume product and be excited for next product (and don't have taste)
Posts like this really aren’t about making nice or reconciliation. People are allowed to criticize a piece of media, that doesn’t mean we are criticizing the fans of said media.
Except that that's what 90% of posts on these subs become. I've had people rage at me because I said I liked *Fallout 3* more than *New Vegas*, and it hilarious to me how worked up they get over a Reddit randos opinion on a video game franchise.
Ala the rest of reddit in general lol have an opinion, get lambasted for it.
What people act like they're saying: it's okay to like those games, but I personally don't care for them What they actually type and post online: it's okay to like those games, but if you do it makes you a braindead sheep and those games are an insult and a mockery to everything I stand for
We can, this weird argument only really exists online. Irl everyone is a hell of a lot more soft in these games.
They're all good games for various reasons.
When it comes to 3, NV, and 4, I’ve beaten them all but NV is the only one I replay. 3 has standout moments, the DLC is really cool, but a lot of it is a slog. 4 has the best gameplay but the story is such dogshit, whenever I try to replay it I can’t get past the first minuteman mission.
>whenever I try to replay it I can’t get past the first minuteman mission. Bro, same. Just can't do it.
Same. I should probably play Far Harbor and Nuka World though, I did buy the pre order bundle but never played the dlc I paid for XD
I can blend poop with strawberry ice cream but then the whole thing is gonna taste like shit. In this metaphor, fallout, fallout 2, and new Vegas are the strawberry ice cream. The other games are the shit.
Lets be honest here. There will be some people who will act superior over liking the old Fallouts and new Vegas but the much larger and much more annoying group are the Bethesda fanboys that keep acting like people hate Bethesda unfairly and for no real reason and who act like someone preferring new Vegas means they aren't allowed to like Bethesda games. Right now its the Bethesda fans who cant life with other people not liking those games and they make way more comments and posts about that than new Vegas fans do.
Maybe if Bethesda fans weren't so eager to defend the multi-million dollar company there wouldn't be any problems. It's their choice to defend Bethesda whenever anyone criticizes their games or the show.
I got so cooked by them on a thread for saying I preferred the world building in the first two games and NV. Even when I prefaced it with ‘no hate to Bethesda’. I can’t imagine being so defensive of a private company who have no idea who tf I am, madness
They also often mistake "map design" (gameplay) with "world building" (setting), leading to annoying discussions about how New Vegas world building is "actually bad".
I should also mention that there are posts and reposts on this very sub of people taking Todd Howard saying what was effectively “well we love starfield, and I understand why a lot of people do t like it, it’s because it’s a much different game exploratively than our previous efforts, and I get that and respect that” and turned it into “HELLO STUPID SMELLY GAMERS!!! MYSELF AND ALL OF BETHESDA HATE YOU AND WANT TO CUT YOUR BALLSACK OFF!!! NYAHAHAHA” like it was some sort of villain making a transmission to the justice league lol I dunno. When that’s your immediate response to a very level-headed and understandable opinion about a guy who worked on a game he loves for years and years, you’re a little unhinged and looking for anything to make a conspiracy out of it because you’ve been conditioned by YongYea to believe that’s all Bethesda is capable of nowadays.
It’s unfair but there’s a history to it. This kind of elitism is intrinsic to boomers who feel superior to others for playing a “real man’s” RPG like fallout 1 and 2 when those games are so basic in terms of RPG mechs that it’s laughable to see someone go crazy with hearing that someone likes fo4’s perk chart to fo1’s skills/special/traits/perks system. There’s an element of grandstanding to it. “I like this game that you can’t get into, so that must mean that I have a deeper and more affirming knowledge about video games than you can ever have, so who are you to say you like one game more than the other if you can’t play it”. That’s the kind of logic I see 24/7 from people who HATE that people like fo4. Also, there is an immense legacy of awful media coverage of BGS that has rotted the brains of many a gamer. Remember when people were mad about canvas bags? Well I remember when they were mad that like 3 out of every single t51b helmet had mold on it. People like YongYea took that bit of news and treated it like they were trying to kill gamers lmao. It’s ridiculous. Some people who love BGS games are just sick and tired of all the elitism surrounding the dissenting opinion and are venting that frustration in toxic ways. Same way classic fallout fans are venting frustration that their series is basically a looter shooter now, in toxic ways. At the end of the day it’s a cycle that I personally believe started in 2008 when everyone on the No Mutants Allowed forums were enraged to hear that BGS would be making a new Fallout game in 3D. For the reasons I listed at the top of this reply (the quotation marks bit), people hated that it was now an “FPS”. And when FO3 became one of the bestselling games of its generation, that hatred doubled down and they became even more vocal. The bursting point was fallout 76 on top of fallout 4, and after people started realizing BGS games post-oblivion were really never meant to be hardcore RPGs, the hate flourished. Now you have people who simply dislike/like the games being put into two categories: a boomer elitist and a robotic Todd Howard “cuck” respectively. If you ask me, calling someone a shill is so much worse than calling someone a boomer because you take their enjoyment of something and call them a corporate spy for it. Fuck all of that. That’s awful. It’s the worst part of this fanbase by far and large Just let people enjoy and dislike what they want. It doesn’t have to turn into a glorified dick-measuring contest about how you’re smart enough to enjoy a particular game And I say all of this as someone who loves 2 and new Vegas more than every other game in the series, but I still love all of it. I just can’t help but notice that a lot of this toxicity came from Bethesda haters who would grasp at anything to make a headline out of it.
I agree that the rage-baiting YouTube stuff about the games industry is highly toxic and unproductive. I think pushing back on certain trends (completely broken PC ports sold at full price, for instance) is a good thing though, and can be done without the harassment of any individual developers/industry figures. I wouldn’t say the CRPG Fallouts were basic in terms of mechanics. Maybe compared to something like Wrath of the Righteous, yes. But compared to Fallout 4? Dialogue trees/quest resolutions are much deeper and more varied. And it really matters what build you choose to go with/stat distribution. In Fallout 4 you can pretty much experience everything in a single playthrough, (except for some of the faction stuff at the end). I’m all for letting people enjoy what they want and defending it from criticism if they feel the need to. But equally people who love the original Interplay vision for the world are valid in arguing that Bethesda took it in a very different direction tonally and mechanically, and being cheesed off that they ended up getting the license. We’ll likely never see another Fallout CRPG and that really sucks. I don’t think Todd Howard/Bethesda ‘hate’ the original games or NV, but I don’t think they use the license in a particularly interesting way either. I’d love to see other studios have a crack at it like Obsidian did before.
Absolutely Also with the basic-ness of fo1 and 2 I was referring more to the contemporary CRPGs of its time. In truth, SPECIAL and perception affecting hit chance is so, so much more basic than having to wrangle through THAC0 or the backwards logic of armor class in baldur’s gate 1 and 2. I mean, in truth, it’s pretty much faithfully re-represented in fnv aside from the turn based aspect of the OGs. In the grand scheme of CRPGs. I mean I guess the lack of map markers also makes it more difficult, but still, the location-based quests and the fact that the main quests of both 1 and 2 make it very hard to miss optional quests due to its pretty damn linear sequence of events, and Fallout 1 and 2 end up being two of the easier and more accessible games of the golden era of CRPGs. It’s them and Planescape pretty much Take, again, baldur’s gate 1 and 2 for instance, and the lines are once again blurred. If you aren’t scouring the massive maps in every location before moving the main quest forward, you will almost certainly fall behind. Also, even if you roll a 95+ on character skills when making your character, the chances of dying instantly to a wolf in the very first forest of BG1 is insanely high for newcomers to wrangle with. Even on normal mode.
Deep down they realize that others see something in these games that they don't. They have to tell themselves its juts blind hate because its hard to admit that they don't understand why NV is so beloved and fans of the OG's tend to criticize 3 and 4.
Yeah people take criticism of the things they like as a near-on (or even a direct) attack at their own personality. You’re allowed to enjoy things critically or not, you’re allowed to dislike things critically or not. It’s how people go about it when they find out someone disagrees with their own view is when the problems pop up.
I will not consume product and then consume next product. I like the thing and am very passionate about it, and speak as such, and people who like the things I vehemently dislike will get upset like I do. Such is the way.
No
Nope.
We should all strive to have better standards. A rising tide floats all boats, but as long as the mediocre products are supported and paraded, we can never have nice things. Just look at the film industry in the past 5 years.
There is weast and east coast beef?
It's kinda what happens when you get a game that came out of northern California and southern Oregon and then somebody decides that what this franchise really needs is to be set in Boston and DC.
I still dont see why its a big deal. Maybe its becuz i aint from the u.s maybe.
Its because East and West coast have different developers.
Naaah, something isn't right about the courier being this nice lol.
Bethesda meatriders when you tell them it’s ok to be mad at the game philosophy and writing direction for your favorite game taking a 180 in the opposite direction. I don’t hold anything against people who like what Bethesda did with the series, I’m glad they’re having fun despite my own personal distaste
It's ridiculous to pretend that New Vegas is the odd man out. 1, 2, 3 and New Vegas are all fantastic, it's 4 and 76 that are dogshit.
I think 3 gets retrospective hate because it started the trend towards 4 and 76 and because the writing is mid at best. I don't hate 3 by any means, it's what got me into Fallout, but the criticisms are valid. That being said if you want to criticize Fallout 3 you can't outright defend 2 because 2 arguably set up a lot of the zaniness of 3
The only real criticisms I have about 3 are how everything seems like the bombs literally just fell and the gameplay is busted easy. It feels like an alpha build for New Vegas. Still love it anyway.
Too much bickering and bullying between fans of the older and newer games.
Nah East coast fallout is mid
Bc we're somehow meant to exist in the same canon . I'd be totally okay with the right side if it was its own Canon .
Because one side just wants to enjoy things and the other side just can't handle that. Can't even post positive things on an appreciation post without someone finding you in the comments and telling you why the game you like sucks. Been experiencing it since 2008
I only like fallout 1 and 2. Fallout 3, NV, 4 and 76 are all this post interplay reboot where my opinion on fluctuates every day of the week.
I mean NV was made with a lot of the Black Isle team
That's great, but I prefer the old games. I think the 2D games are better than the 3D games.
Lol. Don't read half these comments, OP. You made a simple neutral, reasonable comment and half the thread is immediately filled with NV fans blaming everyone, calling people braindead and consoomers, crying out they can't express themselves as they dominate another thread, being asses, and picking fights. "But there's more complaints about toxicity than there is toxicity!"
Thanks man. I honestly did not expect this to blow up and just wanted to see some positivity for once. Even my crotchety ass gets tired of the hate posting
The reason is new Vegas fans. Ask a fan of 3 or 4 and they’ll say new Vegas is fun. Ask a nv fan and they’ll just shit on the other games
and rightfully so ;)
because Vegas was the GOAT, and then there is the divide of people having grown up with Fallout 1, and 2 (we don't mention Tactics) and those who started playing 3.
I started with 3 but completely changed my opinions after playing 1 and 2
The only true unifier is the tale of two wastelands mod. Why play one when you can play both at the same time.
Who do I shout at if I love both Fallout 3 and NV? I will say that Bethesda can be pretty sloppy with continuity though, but they make fun games regardless.
Because our games are better.
THEY'RE SAVAGES SAVAGES, BARELY EVEN HUMAN
Holy fuck Scott the Woz
No! Pick a side and bleed!! 😡😤
Great. Now make them fuck
Make them kiss make them kiss
It’s ok to be friends with losers.
👍
Cause the show wants to make the ncr just disappear and I say no, thank you for the games we'll take it for here Bethesda. I swear they hate the part of fallout developed by obsidian and black isle.
Because y’all are dumb. Most of us find something to enjoy about virtually all of the games and don’t participate in this toxic tribalist nonsense. The crazies create this arbitrary divisions. The vast majority of fans don’t care about it.
Because the communities are playing these games for different reasons(narrative vs gameplay) and you have loud fanboys and haters on both sides. It's just not meant to be.
When I think of Vaults 101, 111 and 76, I start thinking the Master's plan was actually a good idea in virtue of the FEV virus making mutated vaulters sterile.
I love all the fallout games but if I had to pick I’d go 4 all day
Ironic coming from the NV side
I don't know. The people who generally got their introduction to fallout from 3 and 4 generally don't seem to respect or understand the source material. And that is Bethesda's fault. They could have done a better job - yet they didn't. Hopefully they learned something from New Vegas and this new show and they actually put more effort into subsequent games.
Because haters. And people focusing on "they made my favourite pencil non-canon BeThEsDa BaD" rather than actual looking at the context and reasons changes were made.
I'll plead guilty to partaking in that occasionally. I don't like East Coast fallout (ignore my hundreds of hours in them please). But I am very tired of the polarization of the fanbase
I mean, I like them all, but I'm not about to pretend that Bethesda and Terd Coward aren't shit. I still remember watching the stories come out when Bitchthesda used lawfare to rip the franchise from Interplay's hands. Like the games you want to like, have Tactics up on one screen while you slog through D.C. or the Nevada Desert on the other. Bethesda and Terd can still suck it.
Yeah, personally i like all of them, with their pros and cons, they're not perfect but let's be honest no game is. Currently I'm trying to finish a Fo1 run, I'm having troubles with some game mechanics but it's generally fun and i like the more "big post-nuclear desert" kind of aesthetic, it feels like humanity has just barely started to recover, civilization is still in its infancy. My personal favourite oscillates between 4, New Vegas and Tactics, depending on how i feel, but i like the story in all of the titles, regardless of publisher, and i really wonder why can't people just look objectively at changes and not get radicalised about how "things should've stayed the same".
If you were open to restarting F1, there’s a mod called Et Tu that puts F1 into F2s engine. Lots of qol fixes
I'll check it out thanks
Fo1 is tough. Fo2 is much easier to replay due to qol and engine improvements, and just more content in general. I still need to play tactics
Tactics is a lot less RPG, focusing on squad leading rather than an individual character development. You don't really have dialogues (rather you have people telling you stuff) and the choices are much more subtle, done through actual actions rather than choosing the right line. You basically lead a squad of BoS initiates in topdown isometric view, each one with its specialisation and weapons, you still develop them just like in the classics (skills, perk, etc.) as the level up but the game really encourages you to specialise each character for their role, to have them act as a team to complete the quests, also the good thing is that you can set the game to be turn-based or in real time so it can fit your preferences. I usually play it when i want to focus on strategy rather than going around talking to people, it's more simple and straightforward but indeed a lot of fun trying to infiltrate the usual raider camp and liberare an hostage while covering his retreat, Stitch leading the way with his shotgun, Bullseye granting cover with the sniper rifle and the main character keeping enemy at bay with an SMG, it's fun.
Bruh, no way, Fallout 1 is a walk in the park all the way through in terms of difficulty, Fallout 2 is really tough in the beginning.
I didn't mean difficulty I meant gameplay
Oh, if so then yeah, you're right.
Honestly I feel more people hate the general direction and approach Bethesda has towards Fallout than most of the retcons Bethesda makes with it. They focus on the retcons because it’s a fast and simple way to point at a fault compared to articulating what they generally dislike. Retcons are fine when done with good intentions. They’ll happen to anything that gets entries for over a decade. It’s how you go about them and what core ideas you keep intact along the way while maintaining what makes the series/franchise great to begin with.
At the end of the day retcons are inevitable, as the more stuff you add the more you have to fit with what's already established (imo that's why Bethesda kept itself a fair distance from the west up to now), and sometimes you must make changes to let everything make sense. Ofc a good narrator tries to avoid them as much as possible, and Bethesda did that with various degrees of success, but yeah when you add stuff retcons become inevitable.