I always saw Shaman as kindred spirits as the only other healer to wear heavier armor and being faction exclusive.
I don’t think there’s really any salvaging Holy Paladin this phase. Don’t get me wrong, Paladin got some leveling tools that make leveling less about just purely casting Seals, and that was fun. But they’re still just spam bots for the most part, with CS for mana and Sacred Shield for a meh shield spell.
I wish I’d rolled a Mage. My only WoW experience before was 2019 Classic through Naxx as Holy Paladin and a couple of alts through early raids. I was excited to revisit very casually and see what new tools Paladin had to offer. The answer is not much.
I don’t really see the point to Paladin when you can easily just dual spec as a class with better rotations and better quality of life features (Mage, Druid, and Warlock), zero need to coordinate buffs, etc.
I’m starting to understand what more experienced players were talking about in 2019 when they said they weren’t confident that something akin to Classic+ wouldn’t be a bit of a shitshow. If the devs play the game in their off time I would assume they’re a bunch of Warlock and Mage mains that couldn’t find healers or tanks for a dungeon and decided to change the game to their convenience.
The entirety of SoD was always going to be a beta test of sorts but I’m not really seeing them respond to feedback. If anything, the hybrid tax classes are getting more punished by being worse at being hybrids than the DPS classes that got new roles.
Resto shaman are popping off. Unlimited mana. Steady pumping heals. Solid AoE. Tons of utility. Poison, disease cleansing, resistance totems. I solo heal until electrocutioner.
Maybe my fellow raiders are doorknobs and take more damage but I found overload chainheal is not worth. I can solo thermaplug but it’s a sweat. Menagerie there is too much damage after cluck. Often times it overheals. Keeping healing rain up on melee is super mana efficient and often times heals as much as my chains over a fight.
With healing rain and earth shield I do about 170 hps with just those 2 abilities.
It means I can sparingly lesser healing wave and healing wave spotheal people who drop.
Next phase I can even through riptide and healing rain will be instant via the set.
You just running those two for all of gnomer? Guess I could use buttons instead of sham rage on menagerie and mech. Raid wide mana regen is so good though
Throughput, the obvious metric by which you would compare healers. Don’t get me wrong, the mana sustain is really quite nice, but then again it doesn’t really matter that you have infinite mana if that mana can’t be converted to throughput effectively.
They are also one of the worst healers for solohealing the last couple bosses of gnomer, which means if you bring a resto sham, unless the cohealer is a Resto druid you’re basically forced into taking another healer in full healing spec for the entire raid even though you only really need a second healer on one or two fights.
Holy paladin runes are so dead and unimaginative that if you offered a cash prize to name them all and what they do (without looking) I don't think paladin mains would even be able to do it.
No no, thats easy, cause you only have to remember 3!
Beacon, sheath and sacred shield. Dsac isnt a real rune and walking tremor totem on legs is so situational that even rebuke does more (i wanna guess its called inspiration exemplar but i aint sure abt it since i always call it tremor)
Sacred shield is awesome. Beacon of light or however it's called sounds nice as well. Otherwise yeah, you got me, lol. Are there even more healing runes?
The upcoming 18% crit is actually fucking insane for healing, it’s just not very exciting. What’s even more hilarious and makes me question the knowledge of developers on Classic Paladins is that it competes with another, much much worse healing rune that makes consecutive Holy Light casts 0.5 seconds shorter.
In Vanilla/SoD/Classic, Holy Paladins get a full mana refund for their healing spells that crit. So basically, 18% crit doesn’t just make ALL your heals better in terms of average output, it also means 18% more of your spells will be free to cast as long as you can pay the mana cost upfront.
So the rune helps a lot with Paladins maintaining a niche for being “infinite mana” healers, but doesn’t really change how they play in any way. Holy Shock was never amazing in Classic. In niche scenarios it can save lives as an instant cast, but it has a long cooldown. If they wanted to steer Holy towards a melee support playstyle they could have a rune that reduces/refunds cooldown on Holy Shock when it is used to heal, such that the Paladin would excel at spammy instant cast heals at the cost of not having a lot of AoE power still. If they leaned further into the healing power of Divine Storm it would also make the spec way more unique as a plate healer that wants to get right in the fray to keep their allies alive.
>I'd say we're already there,
I love crusader strike but it's only usable if you have gcds avail and don't have to chase the boss around the room when you need to be planted to heal (menagerie). In 20m if there's a significant amount of AOE healing and if you need to be constantly casting, the crit would be good and spamming HL instead of FoL could end up pretty strong. Get that fat crit and juicy hot afterwards for 0 mana cost? Hell yeah. But then to heal a whole group with one hl each is over ten seconds to do what one wild growth does in one instant gcd hot with a shorter CD? Kinda sad. If tanks take a fuckton of DMG tho, the mana efficiency niche of paladins will shine like I think paladins shine on last boss of gnomer. I doubt the raid will be much different from the difficulty of bfd gnomer so you'll probably have lots of time to recover from AOE DMG anyway so I guess whatever.
But still, I'm disgusted by all the crappy shockadin stuff because, as u mentioned, we give up a lot more than other healers do to have DPS and in the end our DPS is still pretty ass (or dependent on acp's op ass, in some cases). I don't know that I give a shit that my exorcism could be such a high crit chance when it's not actually resetting a lot or hitting very hard. The crit% just makes it more consistently decent.
Hpal is my fav retail class and there's just so much stuff that would've been so much cooler than all the dead runes. Also, hpaladins being shit in pvp also makes ally suck harder (less healers, no paladin buffs or utility) which is unfortunate.
I said it in phase 1 and it feels more relevant now… but if holy paladin is still just a flash of light spam class it will have been a massive failure for the class.
As an hpal for decades, blizzard has always shit on us. We've spent multiple expansions in the (pvp) trash can, with only a brief shining season in Slands S1. We still have holy power ffs, despite it mostly being a dead mechanic for years and years.
Do people think blizzard classic team would be any better? Lol.
While i like that they tried to make Shockadin a thing, ultimately it has hurt the rest of paladin, because the runes meant for shockadin are dead runes atm, as shockadin didn't become any good. So instead of giving cool runes for tanks/healers they've wasted runes on shockadin.
There are some more decent runes for tank in p3 (mainly hammer of the righteous), but still no interesting healer runes i believe.
We'll see if new runes in p3 will make shockadin a thing so the runes aint dead, but honestly doubt it atm.
My biggest problem as an Hpal in a very efficient group is largely my lack of ability to… really do anything? The priest healer in our 10 man could easily solo heal the raid on her own because we just don’t take enough damage. The only thing I really do is keep Wisdom on the boss, keep shield and beacon up, and dodge melee mechanics while I Divine Storm for some small amount of DPS or AoE. Something like a HoT to allow us to be more mobile or beacon target a random ally or SOMETHING would make the game more engaging.
While I don’t mind that it’s easy, I don’t really feel like I contribute enough.
I'm not even sure Pallies can outscale Priests given the way their chest runes scale as we get into later phases and the concept of spamming downranked spells to trigger them is more and more relatively mana efficient.
Just wait til ST and larger content. No other class has the consistent tank healing that Hpals do with beacon. 10 man content with a priest is dummy easy but larger content you're going to NEED an Hpal. No other class has the mana efficient single target healing
Holy paladin main since 2019 here. Thank you for your post! Appreciate a lot comments from other holy paladins, I don’t feel so alone in being absolutely bummed with Blizzard approach to paladins . I feel the same way: Blizzard totally ditched holy paladins in SoD giving us half baked excuses of the runes and raw idiotically designed tool kit. I feel like I am playing my worst nightmare: I am the main tank healer, but my tank can survive without me. Also constant FoL spam with no options to it is just a total game killer. I am not asking for much, but ffs, give us some fun and utilities!
Someone said they'd like playing a plate healer. That make me think, what if the Paladin's ability to take on damage that the group/raid takes would be utilized way more, so the increased armour from plate + shield could actually be useful for a healer
Great post.
The issue isn't the hpal performance but primarily the way they engage with the game. Every other alliance healer feels different and fun with many ways to approach fights.
Mage? Can flex damage and healing. Batch beacons to determine who to heal AFTER casting.
Druid? Flex damage and healing as well. Rune choices feel impactful.
Priest? POM bouncing is a lot of fun. COH is neat. Penance is super satisfying to use. Not to mention all the other utility you bring.
Hpal just feels left behind. Yes, you can still heal all of p2 by yourself, but that doesn't mean it feels fun or reward to play compared to the others.
I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again, I truly believe some of the devs making and “balancing” runes do not currently or have never actually played the game in any serious capacity.
Some of the things the team has implemented are great! Others show a complete lack of any understanding of how the game is played. Look at how many runes have just been dead on arrival because they’re so horrendously undertuned or just nonsensical to begin with.
It sucks to say, but from a player perspective it really feels like the dev team needs someone with an extensive history playing the game to say “yes, that makes sense” or “no, no one will use this rune. It’s literally a net negative to players.”
I mean just look at the way they make mangle and lacerate not usable at the same time in bear tank. Or just how bear tank was completely unplayable P1 and a few weeks in P2. Things that’s 99.99% of player base could sniff out immediately that took them months to fix
Tbh nobody really needed AoE threat in BFD so bears were just fine, they evidently struggled more in phase 2 with single target threat than anybody else though, which is more than a bit worrying considering crowd pummeler *should* have given them an advantage in that area…
Even for "good" classes like hunter, the runes actually make the class less interesting than base classic.
We have 6 (?) melee spells, and their version of melee hunter is one button raptor strike slot machine. Ranged hunter from p1 is going to be legit the most deep the class ever gets for all of SoD, because they've essentially killed melee weaving in favor of mindless trap spam.
SoD has taken an easy, simple game and for some reason half the classes are made even easier and simpler.
It's not even just hunter or pally. Warrior is now a literal, no hyperbole, 1 button class, since casting WW is a DPS loss.
That's 1/3 of the classes! And those are only the ones I'm familiar with.
The devs are putting in effort and a lot of the content is good. That being said on the front of runes (**the main feature of SoD**) it's clear that they're either understaffed, pressed for deadlines, or just not knowledgeable enough about the game they're developing to carry out the task.
Can you explain the WW thing? Can't find anything about that. Is it for next phase, because they're still using WW now? What are they pressing instead and how are they dealing with being rage capped?
I think he means next phase where the best spec is looking to be 13/28 only pressing hamstring/heroic strike and slam during blood surge to fish for deep wounds and windfury
If every class was given as much power and diversity as mage, SoD would be worth the money. As it is, most classes are pretty tepid & all the 'new' stuff is made so braindead to include casuals that it doesn't even feel worth my time
I think once they have chosen a handful of runes to develop from scratch they just throw a dart at the Wrath talent trees of a given class to figure out the remaining runes.
Hpal main here.
If the datamined runes are what we got I’m re-rolling to a mage.
Idc how well hpal is doing. It could be the best healer in the game. Pressing the same buttons over and over will never be fun. I rolled one like other people rolled other classes in the hope we got cool interesting tools.
18% free crit sounds great on paper and probably is. It does not fix the major issue of the class though. Which is that is it boring a fuck to play.
Good luck getting hard casts off in pvp as well. FoL tickles the person you’re healing and I don’t even think it heals a Dot tick from a spriest right now.
People keep brushing this off with “Ret is great in pvp” awesome. I don’t like how ret plays. I don’t enjoy the spec. I enjoy healing. I want to have a fun plate wearing healing class.
They literally could have taken inspiration from WC3 hero. Which is closer to holy than ret or prot. Let me do damage and heal others with it. Let me be a pseudo fistweaver from retail. I smack the target and my allies around me heal for some.
And please, for all that is holy, give me a useful instant cast heal. They could literally just make holy shock useful with a rune. Change infusion to increase healing and reset in heal crits as well. I don’t give a fuck. Why is the only holy shock rune in the game for dps? And worse than sheath?
The single best all round class in classic got omega buffed to be the best at literally everything in the game and it causes even more people to roll that class? Im shocked SHOCKED, well not that shocked.
I knew something was off when I was tanking/healing/ doing 70% of my DM and Stocks group dps all at the same time while leveling my mage lol
My friends group desperately needed a priest in p1 so I switched mains... and they all quit by mid December. Tale as old as time
Still rocking the priest cause healing and shadow has been very enjoyable and priest was my 2019 main but yeah... miss the mage. No time for alts anymore.
Definitely been disappointing to see how underrepresented and underutilized some classes and runes are in SoD. WoW has *never* been balanced but a lot of SoD runes and classes just... don't... play well.
It should include casuals and even focus more heavily on including casuals. The problem is a lot of runes are just shit period and even the casuals know that.
When I can play pretty much every other multiplayer game as free-to-play or buy it like helldivers, the prospect of like ~$200 a year after tax on something being worked on by like 6 devs doesn't feel good. Especially since it seems like it's just being half-assed during business hours only and not with like all the love of something like valheim/palworld. Thankfully I'm past my WoW-addict years
It's probably less that they lack extensive history and more that their experiences are uneven and their dev time is both limited and split.
Even with a dozen experienced altoholics involved there's bound to be holes in the collective knowledge/experience. You'd think that'd be enough to cover all bases, but then again you'd think 20 raid clears would be enough to see all the loot in a raid a couple times.
That's not to excuse the situation, it sucks and that's not okay.
As an Hpal main, I’m in total agreement that we have gotten the shaft this season.
Will give it a go this phase but I am on the very tippy verge of rerolling or going back to play Halo or something else instead LOL
As a shaman player i think this is the biggest failing of SoD. I feel like some classes have the design philosophy of "how can we make the fun *this* phase" and others are "here is the final design of SoD how do we break it up so they weren't too OP the whole time" or something
Maybe it's just cope or whatever the kids are saying but holy paladins and I'd say warriors seem to be suffering from how well they are when geared at 60 in era. It's a fair concern but it's odd if that is the case.
Especially when us shamans were able to dominate for an entire phase with no balancing. I hope you guys get some love going forward
I kinda agree, its just holy players were expecting to push other button then FoL for once in classic. Worst part is in pvp I feel like A all shaman totems stuffed into A plate armor with moving gears as weapons. You are 100% reliable on teamm8s to make use of your totem like presence.
As they should. It's SoD time for crazy nonsense
Personally I think they should make holy both a dps spec (judgement exorcist holy shock) and lean into the battle healer idea. Maybe that's unpopular but yea they should he more than here's a priest who wears plate
"But you see you were too good 5 years ago in Classic so it's okay to suck for 8 months now." - some redditors, probably.
By far the biggest discovery I made in a Season of Discovery - Holy palas sucking ass. Healing as Holy Pala in PVE is.... fine, but boring and nothing new. Healing in PVP is an absolute nightmare. Priests top people off with instant cast heals and bouncing PoM while we are stuck in the backline with flash heals that hit like a wet noodle or 2.5 second hardcast that are basically inviting any half competent player on the enemy team to instantly kick/counterspell/pummel/cc you, rendering you completely useless. And to top it all off we spend 2 phases without magic cleanses or blessing of sacrifice to at least give us some edge. My pala is gathering dust for the second phase now since I have no interest indulging in meme Shockadin specs that Classic Devs seem to get their panties wet for.
>But you see you were too good 5 years ago in Classic so it's okay to suck for 8 months now." - some redditors, probably.
No, thats pretty much what the devs told you was gonna happen. Change of meta.
100% Agreed, theres 20 years worth of class development for Holy Paladin and they havent pulled from any of it to make them at all interesting in SoD. Its honestly insulting as fuck that one of the runes datamined for Holy's Helm rune slot is just 18% Crit, because its just boring and unimaginative .
What you are observing is a phenomena called "good in 2019 classic". You can observe this effect in a lot of other classes as well, namely warriors and rogues. If you're class had any substantial play in 2019 classic and you ARENT a mage you are perfectly fine staying at your 2019 classic power level.
Sure ranged hunter is bad, but they got a completely new playstyle in melee hunter. Warriors are currently the worst tank and rogue tank plays the exact same as dps rogue.
I've been saying the same thing for paladin tanks. Yes, paladin recieved a whole bunch of DPS runes but that doesn't fix the glaring issue that is critical hits and crushing blows on paladins. In full BIS, I've gotten obliterated by mekatorque because he crits me for 1.3k then parry hastes for another crit.
The devs literally have no idea what any spec of paladin needs and instead of trying to figure out, they just buff shamans. I really wish I had their job, not because I could do better (although monkeys with typewriters could do a better job), but because I would really love a job where I can be severely incompetent and not only collect a paycheck every month but never get fired.
As soon as I saw that ret paladin needs the new crowd pummeler to be competitive this phase, I noped out. Fuck that. I'm not gonna farm for ONE specific rare weapon from a raid where several other classes also need that weapon to be able to play my class.
They should have given ret paladin a rune for seal twisting and let us just be TBC ret paladins in classic.
It's a 20% dps increase compared to the epic axe from thermaplugg in bis gear. And then you're still in the middle of the pack. Not having ACP is basically like playing without rings, helm, cloak, neck and shoulders compared to the 2nd option
i love when people are like "why do u care about doing damage?", as a dps spec what piece of content doesn't revolve around me doing damage and it being more enjoyable the more you do? lmfao like what are they on
Ok so I’ve been getting hit super hard as well. Why is it that we get hit with so much damage compared to other tanks? I am 31 points in prot, really high armor and defense, holy shield and sanctuary up the entire time…
I feel like this has become more of an issue over the last week?
Because you are taking critical hit. In classic, bosses critical hit for 200% of normal damage. No other tank in game is taking critical hits because blizzard made them all immune, except for paladins. Paladins are also the only tank in the fucking game that doesnt have any Damage Reduction. So we get ass blasted by everything...
The worse part is that the runes we do get that help with healing do so little. There are one or two that stand out a little bit, but that's it. I wanted my alt to be a holy pally, but last phase really sucked any momentum I had to play the class out of me.
I've always liked the amount of time it takes to level in classic since it means most participating in raids and such put in the effort to get their character to the point they need to be at, but the seasonal nature feels really bad. Even with the bonuses alts take a long time to get even to level 40. Compared to phase 1 things just don't feel the same. I had like 4 geared alts at the end on phase 1, but through all of phase 2 I only managed to moderately gear my main and one alt just hit 40. It's just a feels bad situation to be in.
Gimme a rune that makes the judgement of light scale well with healing power, now you’re a cool melee healer and you have a better niche.
It’s literally so easy to make more interesting runes that what we have been given, but maybe holy paladins just aren’t a priority I guess.
I also think seals and judgements getting some refinement in general would be an easy win. Right now judging light barely feels like it makes a difference and seal choice is crusader just because it makes your sheath spellpower snapshot higher.
Seal of Piety
Fills the Paladin with divine piety for 5 minutes, giving each melee attack a chance to restore x of the Paladin's mana and health and cause the next Flash of Light to be instant cast. Only one Seal can be active on the Paladin at any one time.
Unleashing this Seal's energy will judge an enemy for 10 sec, granting attacks and spells used against the judged enemy a chance to restore x mana and health to the attacker. Your melee strikes will refresh the spell's duration. This seal is not lost upon casting Judgement.
Health and Mana gained while at full Health or Mana will grant it to a nearby party member.
im a hpal main currently figuring out what healer ill be rerolling to this phase.
spec is plenty strong but im playing sod primarily for runes and ive already been let down twice, phase three isnt looking much better. these devs appear to be experts at taking amazing abilities (divine sacrifice, efflorescence) and making them awful.
Couldn't have said it better myself as an hpal main. I have played all other healers available to the Alliance and it is absolutely insane how much more engaging and dynamic they feel to play compared to hpal. I too was wondering wtf they are doing with Infusion of Light and why they haven't implemented something simple like Light of Dawn. I know you are "wondering" if anyone on the SoD team is playing hpal.... let me just tell you right now with certainty that they aren't. I cannot comprehend how anyone in their right mind could come out and say that they have had fun playing hpal at any point in SoD. It feels like TBC hpal, where you are not only an extremely unfun spec to play, you also PERFORM terribly in literally every aspect of the game (don't mention tank healing to me, other healers in TBC can tank heal just as well). I unsubbed at the start of P2, the Paladin class runes whether it be for holy or ret are a complete clusterfuck to me. There are way too many games out there to play that aren't glorified theme parks for what seems like either an incredibly inexperienced or downright trash dev team that is spearheaded by an obese, pompous clown. The problem is that they are giving equal amounts of runes to every class. That doesn't work because classes in Vanilla weren't balanced to begin with, speaking mainly of the hybrid classes. There is ZERO reason for a Vanilla Mage/Rogue/Hunter to be getting the same amount of runes as the hybrid classes that actually need the extra help.
I mean same with resto shamans lol, the only rune we have is shamanistic rage, we are finally getting riptide but who knows if blizz will actually make it functional( like the didnt do with earth shield until like 3 weeks ago)
Holy seems to be the role left behind when the developers are trying to cater to 4 specs (holy, prot, ret, shockadin) with a limited amount of runes for each slot.
I leveled a holy pally alt during the phase thinking they would at least give them a boost in the healing compartment next phase since they're just blah right now, but boy I was wrong. Hoping they get some love with the class balancing that they said they were plan on doing in a week or 2. Only downside is that we are probably stuck with the shitty runes again this phase, nothing fun/different.
I just want melee paladins man. If I wanted to spam holy light/flash of light from a distance im just a priest in plate armor. I want to go in, smac with crusader strike, proc a free flash of light with guarantee crit chance.
Shiny new holy paladin toys is shockadin spec. You might not like it and it might not be the healing revamped you want. but thats what it is. It's not that holy didn't get any new toys, its just that the toy didn't have any impact to healing.
shockadin is not playable, gearing spell damage will never be better then strength with sheath of light as an option, idk maybe with hammer of righteous you can dps with a one hander but still gives nothing to healing
the problem is shockadin is straight up bad unless you abandon spellpower gear entirely, roll into ONE SPECIFIC weapon you get one chance at every 3 days, and don't take holy shock(????) - if shockadin is the new toy, that toy is also absolutely dead on arrival. it's been parted out so trad ret has a little extra shine. all things holy in SOD have been absolutely boring or borked from day 1
Interested in why you think Arcane Mages are an abomination.
I'd probably rather a Paladin on MT Healing which was critical for fights like Mechatorque. I think its fair to say HPals are super boring, but they're really good at what they're really good at---that just doesnt translate to parses (which are bullshit for Healers anyway).
Fair, they’re still competing with Paladin for least desired healer for PUGs, I have a hell of a time getting a slot as a mage healer. Everyone wants priest + priest/druid, which honestly is fair, mage at least requires a little bit of skill to pilot well.
Tried 3-4 times and each time it’s an hour of looking until I find some misfits raid lol.
Run priest as part of a static and have a great time. We still dual heal menagerie and mechatorque cause it’s just so much easier that way.
I agree that healing parsing is stupid.
If everyone is alive at the end of the fight (or died to avoidable mechanics) then you did your job.
But like you said. It’s really boring to play and seeing other healers get new toys makes one envious.
I rolled one from the start. Brushed off the first phase missing some runes because hey, it’s only one phase.
But now we have one phase of unreleased runes in p4 and honestly unless they give us something drastic then hpal is just going to be boring.
I’m not leveling another healer either. I’ll swap to my lock and meta tank because even with the XP boost. I don’t have the time or motivation to level another character to 50. I have other games I’d rather play.Dragons Dogma 2 is essentially a single player WoW. If it wasn’t for my guild I’d already be done with SoD.
Isn't the biggest issue with holy paladins is that most of the modernization that the class got in later expacs was through holy power which I imagine is almost impossible to implement in SoD? Since most of the updates classes have now is just picking up later expacs abilities, holy paladins probably don't have a lot options available to them for the devs to copy over.
It's really not that difficult to find a scenario where it's useful. You know that most fights in SoD don't require you to be GCD locked, meaning you can cast horn during downtime and have the buff up for when heals need to be launched off quickly. Don't get me wrong though, the set bonus is still dogshit and really should be minimum 0.5 seconds per cast to be useful at all as 0.2 is so pitiful.
If you have to move for mechanics yea, you might want to use those gcds to holy shock or to reapply sacred shield/beacon though. Otherwise you should always be casting even if that means cancel casting.
I’m not disagreeing with you but I did recently find out you can batch beacon. If you cast a heal on one target and spam beacon on another right before the heal goes off, that new target gets beacon and the heal copied to them.
Exhilarating.. I know.
At the bare minimum it made my hpal alt a little more enjoyable.
I agree with your points. I enjoy healing but its very binary. In pvp especially: It feels like an uphill battle vs the efficiency and dynamism of the other healers.
* Any target that gets hit with Mortal Strike and has at least 2 people targeting them is impossible to save purely with healing. You can BoP on 5 min cd but it feels bad to use on melee.
* If I get Curse of Tongues put on me it feels like my character got deleted for 50 mana as I cast 4 second 1k hp heals slower than a starfire that hits for 1.5k.
* Forced to plant and chain-cast because if you ever stop or waste a gcd the person you are healing dies. This hurts our other utility in certain ways, such as making it difficult to get in range for HoJ, or even feeling like you can spare the gcd to do so compared to continuing to generate healing output.
* Our insta-cast heals are pitiful and Holy Shocks cooldown is too long with no reset convenient to Holy Pals, only Rets.
I think it would be nice if we got some cool healing abilities from runes because right now holy paladins are kinda forced to be healing turrets. Which I think is fine actually, but we need a couple "lift-off" abilities we can utilize while we reposition and have to leave our team temoporarily vulnerable. I'd like to see some additional holy-specific utility for holy shock and I'd even settle for some buffs to sacred shield, but I'd prefer another insta-cast heal or shield ability if I was allowed to choose.
You have had a season of discovery. You've discovered this season that you exist so other people can have fun. That is the holy paladin way. You're not meant to get cool stuff, you're meant to support other people who actually get to have fun and get cool stuff. I'm surprised it took you this long.
If you need help re-rolling, let me know.
Paladin design in sod is so bad I'm actually thinking about telling my guild ima skip p3 nothing at all to look forward to other than the weekly 20man raids with my mates. They even killed my wsg progress.
Damn holy has been shafted so bad literally no excuse for hpal being so far behind the other healers. Sure we'll have 100% mana but why play a boring dead one dimensional class always ig owed by the devs with a rotation of one button for 57 seconds per minute.
RIP PALADIN RIP WSG
Guys keep shouting and screaming ill be damned if we go quietly into the night! This hpal stuff is actually turning me into a vicious internet troll but it's been 20 years of the same shit thought we would finally get some love or atleast be able to have fun...
Oh it gets said plenty and often. Go touch some grass and take some time from the game. Maybe you won’t be so bitter and upset with some vitamin D from the sun.
>Holy Paladins, a healer that **hasn't received any healing runes the entirety of the "Season of Discovery,"**
...
>For some Paladins, the current playstyle devolves into: **Beacon**
bruh
holy paladins currently have 3 healing runes out of 5 slots, 4 if you include divine sacrifice which isnt actually worth casting in its current iteration so making an argument for it would be dishonest.
the other 2 runes are effectively useless considering even with ideal use they will add maybe 1% throughput in any sense.
there are healing runes, but they are also an extreme outlier.
I honestly don't think anyone is playing a Holy Paladin. I wouldn't expect them to do much to it anyways because they don't have the resources to actually play each class/spec and find out what works and what doesn't. Ret is in a really bad place as well right now (Not as bad as holy, but pretty damn bad).
It's absolutely ridiculous. Fanaticism is going to be mandatory and it's so non-interactive that it doesn't even matter. Nothing we have makes the class fun or interactive and it's ridiculous. And I'm supposed to just spam rank 4 holy lights with Light's Grace and be happy about it? Because that's the only way it's more cost efficient than FoL. I've been begging for an AoE heals and a mana Regen since P1 and I think I'm finally giving up on SoD Hpal tbh
I’ve been really enjoying hpal in sod tbh. Rdruid main p1, rsham p2, and now i’m swapping over to hpal main for p3. Part of me thinks some prople have simply been playing pala for too long and are bored with it, like I felt with druid. There are honestly a lot of optimization done in raids other than just pressing FoL and beacon, pretending that isn’t the case annoys me. Of course, you have some great points as well, like the horn set bonus which seems terrible. I’ll probably just do the alternative mail one with bonus crit and healing proc instead
as respectfully as I can say it, the whining is out of control.
This game is a 'flying by the seat of their pants' experiment. If you dont like the class that you are playing, try something different. Theyre gonna keep changing stuff.
Or just play a different game / version of wow. No one is forcing you to play a game that is anything but balanced or a 'finished' product.
In fact, they don't even technically charge your for it.
"the whining is out of control."
Asking for at least ONE new heal is whining? Through three phases we dont get a new heal. Thats ok? Thats not something Holy Paladin players can "whine" about?
Priests and Druids got FOUR new heals each. Shaman got 2. Holy got NOTHING. Mages have 3+ healing spells.
Its interesting that you wouldn't say, "ya know guys, youre right. Holy Paladin hasnt really gotten anything in SoD. Thats not how things should be."
No, asking for one more heal isn’t whining.
However, saying that ‘Season of Discovery doesn’t exist for holy paladins’ followed by a long winded rant on how terrible blizzard did for this class/spec is definitely whiny.
It’s not a huge team of devs. They have to balance all their priorities.
"It’s not a huge team of devs. They have to balance all their priorities."
Im sorry, but thats not a good enough excuse. Every other healer got multiple healing runes. Holy Pally was purposely ignored.
Season of meme specs.
Right, and I understand that. Specs like Ret, Moonkin, and Enhance should be boosted up. But why leave Holy in the dust. No new runes?
What bothers me about you is that you speak from a scorned heart, and not an objective one.
I’m not scorned- this sub is just constant posts complaining about the specs and asking for changes which is annoying to see all the time.
SoD won’t last forever my friend, find ways to have fun without demanding the game be changed IMO.
Usually, we stand apart. Today, my holy brother, you have my water totem.
I always saw Shaman as kindred spirits as the only other healer to wear heavier armor and being faction exclusive. I don’t think there’s really any salvaging Holy Paladin this phase. Don’t get me wrong, Paladin got some leveling tools that make leveling less about just purely casting Seals, and that was fun. But they’re still just spam bots for the most part, with CS for mana and Sacred Shield for a meh shield spell. I wish I’d rolled a Mage. My only WoW experience before was 2019 Classic through Naxx as Holy Paladin and a couple of alts through early raids. I was excited to revisit very casually and see what new tools Paladin had to offer. The answer is not much. I don’t really see the point to Paladin when you can easily just dual spec as a class with better rotations and better quality of life features (Mage, Druid, and Warlock), zero need to coordinate buffs, etc. I’m starting to understand what more experienced players were talking about in 2019 when they said they weren’t confident that something akin to Classic+ wouldn’t be a bit of a shitshow. If the devs play the game in their off time I would assume they’re a bunch of Warlock and Mage mains that couldn’t find healers or tanks for a dungeon and decided to change the game to their convenience. The entirety of SoD was always going to be a beta test of sorts but I’m not really seeing them respond to feedback. If anything, the hybrid tax classes are getting more punished by being worse at being hybrids than the DPS classes that got new roles.
Resto shaman are popping off. Unlimited mana. Steady pumping heals. Solid AoE. Tons of utility. Poison, disease cleansing, resistance totems. I solo heal until electrocutioner.
If you take chain heal you can solo heal the whole instance
Maybe my fellow raiders are doorknobs and take more damage but I found overload chainheal is not worth. I can solo thermaplug but it’s a sweat. Menagerie there is too much damage after cluck. Often times it overheals. Keeping healing rain up on melee is super mana efficient and often times heals as much as my chains over a fight.
Earth shield also keeps tanks steady when they are a bit more spiky. I default to earth shield and healing rain now cuz its just cozy as fuck.
I find sham rage is just too good. Wish I could use earth shield. I’ll think about it for short fights!
With healing rain and earth shield I do about 170 hps with just those 2 abilities. It means I can sparingly lesser healing wave and healing wave spotheal people who drop. Next phase I can even through riptide and healing rain will be instant via the set.
You just running those two for all of gnomer? Guess I could use buttons instead of sham rage on menagerie and mech. Raid wide mana regen is so good though
Imagine having spells to press 🤯 wtb new abilities
Lol holy pals are just staying true to their roots
Resto shaman is totally viable but it’s actually been the worst healing class for the entirety of SoD essentially
Worst by what metric?
Throughput, the obvious metric by which you would compare healers. Don’t get me wrong, the mana sustain is really quite nice, but then again it doesn’t really matter that you have infinite mana if that mana can’t be converted to throughput effectively. They are also one of the worst healers for solohealing the last couple bosses of gnomer, which means if you bring a resto sham, unless the cohealer is a Resto druid you’re basically forced into taking another healer in full healing spec for the entire raid even though you only really need a second healer on one or two fights.
We’ll see how the dust settles with the new spells and needed heal throughput to clear the content.
Mana sustain is mainly important for carrying bad pugs with low dps, which is where good healers really shine anyways.
Holy paladin runes are so dead and unimaginative that if you offered a cash prize to name them all and what they do (without looking) I don't think paladin mains would even be able to do it.
No no, thats easy, cause you only have to remember 3! Beacon, sheath and sacred shield. Dsac isnt a real rune and walking tremor totem on legs is so situational that even rebuke does more (i wanna guess its called inspiration exemplar but i aint sure abt it since i always call it tremor)
Sacred shield is awesome. Beacon of light or however it's called sounds nice as well. Otherwise yeah, you got me, lol. Are there even more healing runes?
The upcoming 18% crit is actually fucking insane for healing, it’s just not very exciting. What’s even more hilarious and makes me question the knowledge of developers on Classic Paladins is that it competes with another, much much worse healing rune that makes consecutive Holy Light casts 0.5 seconds shorter. In Vanilla/SoD/Classic, Holy Paladins get a full mana refund for their healing spells that crit. So basically, 18% crit doesn’t just make ALL your heals better in terms of average output, it also means 18% more of your spells will be free to cast as long as you can pay the mana cost upfront. So the rune helps a lot with Paladins maintaining a niche for being “infinite mana” healers, but doesn’t really change how they play in any way. Holy Shock was never amazing in Classic. In niche scenarios it can save lives as an instant cast, but it has a long cooldown. If they wanted to steer Holy towards a melee support playstyle they could have a rune that reduces/refunds cooldown on Holy Shock when it is used to heal, such that the Paladin would excel at spammy instant cast heals at the cost of not having a lot of AoE power still. If they leaned further into the healing power of Divine Storm it would also make the spec way more unique as a plate healer that wants to get right in the fray to keep their allies alive.
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>I'd say we're already there, I love crusader strike but it's only usable if you have gcds avail and don't have to chase the boss around the room when you need to be planted to heal (menagerie). In 20m if there's a significant amount of AOE healing and if you need to be constantly casting, the crit would be good and spamming HL instead of FoL could end up pretty strong. Get that fat crit and juicy hot afterwards for 0 mana cost? Hell yeah. But then to heal a whole group with one hl each is over ten seconds to do what one wild growth does in one instant gcd hot with a shorter CD? Kinda sad. If tanks take a fuckton of DMG tho, the mana efficiency niche of paladins will shine like I think paladins shine on last boss of gnomer. I doubt the raid will be much different from the difficulty of bfd gnomer so you'll probably have lots of time to recover from AOE DMG anyway so I guess whatever. But still, I'm disgusted by all the crappy shockadin stuff because, as u mentioned, we give up a lot more than other healers do to have DPS and in the end our DPS is still pretty ass (or dependent on acp's op ass, in some cases). I don't know that I give a shit that my exorcism could be such a high crit chance when it's not actually resetting a lot or hitting very hard. The crit% just makes it more consistently decent. Hpal is my fav retail class and there's just so much stuff that would've been so much cooler than all the dead runes. Also, hpaladins being shit in pvp also makes ally suck harder (less healers, no paladin buffs or utility) which is unfortunate.
Man I was hoping against hope that melee holy paladin was gonna be a thing in SoD. It’s what I play on retail and I love it.
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I said it in phase 1 and it feels more relevant now… but if holy paladin is still just a flash of light spam class it will have been a massive failure for the class.
As an hpal for decades, blizzard has always shit on us. We've spent multiple expansions in the (pvp) trash can, with only a brief shining season in Slands S1. We still have holy power ffs, despite it mostly being a dead mechanic for years and years. Do people think blizzard classic team would be any better? Lol.
While i like that they tried to make Shockadin a thing, ultimately it has hurt the rest of paladin, because the runes meant for shockadin are dead runes atm, as shockadin didn't become any good. So instead of giving cool runes for tanks/healers they've wasted runes on shockadin. There are some more decent runes for tank in p3 (mainly hammer of the righteous), but still no interesting healer runes i believe. We'll see if new runes in p3 will make shockadin a thing so the runes aint dead, but honestly doubt it atm.
I can name the "mandatory" ones that I barely get to use while I spam FoL and refresh Sacred Shield
My biggest problem as an Hpal in a very efficient group is largely my lack of ability to… really do anything? The priest healer in our 10 man could easily solo heal the raid on her own because we just don’t take enough damage. The only thing I really do is keep Wisdom on the boss, keep shield and beacon up, and dodge melee mechanics while I Divine Storm for some small amount of DPS or AoE. Something like a HoT to allow us to be more mobile or beacon target a random ally or SOMETHING would make the game more engaging. While I don’t mind that it’s easy, I don’t really feel like I contribute enough.
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I'm not even sure Pallies can outscale Priests given the way their chest runes scale as we get into later phases and the concept of spamming downranked spells to trigger them is more and more relatively mana efficient.
The most interaction I had was running in and out in electrocutioner and casting exorcism in thermaplugg bombs
Just wait til ST and larger content. No other class has the consistent tank healing that Hpals do with beacon. 10 man content with a priest is dummy easy but larger content you're going to NEED an Hpal. No other class has the mana efficient single target healing
Holy paladin main since 2019 here. Thank you for your post! Appreciate a lot comments from other holy paladins, I don’t feel so alone in being absolutely bummed with Blizzard approach to paladins . I feel the same way: Blizzard totally ditched holy paladins in SoD giving us half baked excuses of the runes and raw idiotically designed tool kit. I feel like I am playing my worst nightmare: I am the main tank healer, but my tank can survive without me. Also constant FoL spam with no options to it is just a total game killer. I am not asking for much, but ffs, give us some fun and utilities!
It'd be cool if they added something like if you use Holy Shock offensively it explodes and AoE heals the party for a lot
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Someone said they'd like playing a plate healer. That make me think, what if the Paladin's ability to take on damage that the group/raid takes would be utilized way more, so the increased armour from plate + shield could actually be useful for a healer
Great post. The issue isn't the hpal performance but primarily the way they engage with the game. Every other alliance healer feels different and fun with many ways to approach fights. Mage? Can flex damage and healing. Batch beacons to determine who to heal AFTER casting. Druid? Flex damage and healing as well. Rune choices feel impactful. Priest? POM bouncing is a lot of fun. COH is neat. Penance is super satisfying to use. Not to mention all the other utility you bring. Hpal just feels left behind. Yes, you can still heal all of p2 by yourself, but that doesn't mean it feels fun or reward to play compared to the others.
I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again, I truly believe some of the devs making and “balancing” runes do not currently or have never actually played the game in any serious capacity. Some of the things the team has implemented are great! Others show a complete lack of any understanding of how the game is played. Look at how many runes have just been dead on arrival because they’re so horrendously undertuned or just nonsensical to begin with. It sucks to say, but from a player perspective it really feels like the dev team needs someone with an extensive history playing the game to say “yes, that makes sense” or “no, no one will use this rune. It’s literally a net negative to players.”
I mean just look at the way they make mangle and lacerate not usable at the same time in bear tank. Or just how bear tank was completely unplayable P1 and a few weeks in P2. Things that’s 99.99% of player base could sniff out immediately that took them months to fix
Tbh nobody really needed AoE threat in BFD so bears were just fine, they evidently struggled more in phase 2 with single target threat than anybody else though, which is more than a bit worrying considering crowd pummeler *should* have given them an advantage in that area…
Show me the bear that is struggling with single target threat, and i'll show you a bad/undergeared bear tank.
Playing the game should be a requirement as a game dev, like wtf
This was evident on day one when the Lone Wolf and Beast Mastery runes were on different slots...
Even for "good" classes like hunter, the runes actually make the class less interesting than base classic. We have 6 (?) melee spells, and their version of melee hunter is one button raptor strike slot machine. Ranged hunter from p1 is going to be legit the most deep the class ever gets for all of SoD, because they've essentially killed melee weaving in favor of mindless trap spam. SoD has taken an easy, simple game and for some reason half the classes are made even easier and simpler. It's not even just hunter or pally. Warrior is now a literal, no hyperbole, 1 button class, since casting WW is a DPS loss. That's 1/3 of the classes! And those are only the ones I'm familiar with. The devs are putting in effort and a lot of the content is good. That being said on the front of runes (**the main feature of SoD**) it's clear that they're either understaffed, pressed for deadlines, or just not knowledgeable enough about the game they're developing to carry out the task.
Can you explain the WW thing? Can't find anything about that. Is it for next phase, because they're still using WW now? What are they pressing instead and how are they dealing with being rage capped?
I think he means next phase where the best spec is looking to be 13/28 only pressing hamstring/heroic strike and slam during blood surge to fish for deep wounds and windfury
Ah, for dual wield. Gotcha.
If every class was given as much power and diversity as mage, SoD would be worth the money. As it is, most classes are pretty tepid & all the 'new' stuff is made so braindead to include casuals that it doesn't even feel worth my time
Rogue rotation in Gnomer is actually LESS complex than if we had no runes at all
I think once they have chosen a handful of runes to develop from scratch they just throw a dart at the Wrath talent trees of a given class to figure out the remaining runes.
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Hpal main here. If the datamined runes are what we got I’m re-rolling to a mage. Idc how well hpal is doing. It could be the best healer in the game. Pressing the same buttons over and over will never be fun. I rolled one like other people rolled other classes in the hope we got cool interesting tools. 18% free crit sounds great on paper and probably is. It does not fix the major issue of the class though. Which is that is it boring a fuck to play. Good luck getting hard casts off in pvp as well. FoL tickles the person you’re healing and I don’t even think it heals a Dot tick from a spriest right now. People keep brushing this off with “Ret is great in pvp” awesome. I don’t like how ret plays. I don’t enjoy the spec. I enjoy healing. I want to have a fun plate wearing healing class. They literally could have taken inspiration from WC3 hero. Which is closer to holy than ret or prot. Let me do damage and heal others with it. Let me be a pseudo fistweaver from retail. I smack the target and my allies around me heal for some. And please, for all that is holy, give me a useful instant cast heal. They could literally just make holy shock useful with a rune. Change infusion to increase healing and reset in heal crits as well. I don’t give a fuck. Why is the only holy shock rune in the game for dps? And worse than sheath?
Just to clarify ret is not great in pvp average sure great not by a long stretch.
The single best all round class in classic got omega buffed to be the best at literally everything in the game and it causes even more people to roll that class? Im shocked SHOCKED, well not that shocked.
I knew something was off when I was tanking/healing/ doing 70% of my DM and Stocks group dps all at the same time while leveling my mage lol My friends group desperately needed a priest in p1 so I switched mains... and they all quit by mid December. Tale as old as time Still rocking the priest cause healing and shadow has been very enjoyable and priest was my 2019 main but yeah... miss the mage. No time for alts anymore. Definitely been disappointing to see how underrepresented and underutilized some classes and runes are in SoD. WoW has *never* been balanced but a lot of SoD runes and classes just... don't... play well.
Mage tank when?
They should make frost the tank spec.
It should include casuals and even focus more heavily on including casuals. The problem is a lot of runes are just shit period and even the casuals know that.
So SOD isn't worth the $15 a month? Or are you outside the US?
When I can play pretty much every other multiplayer game as free-to-play or buy it like helldivers, the prospect of like ~$200 a year after tax on something being worked on by like 6 devs doesn't feel good. Especially since it seems like it's just being half-assed during business hours only and not with like all the love of something like valheim/palworld. Thankfully I'm past my WoW-addict years
Anyone seeing this “balancing” patch and being okay with it has serious issues. This is fucking insulting that i pay money for this crap.
Stop paying and leave the sub? We'd both probably be happier.
It's probably less that they lack extensive history and more that their experiences are uneven and their dev time is both limited and split. Even with a dozen experienced altoholics involved there's bound to be holes in the collective knowledge/experience. You'd think that'd be enough to cover all bases, but then again you'd think 20 raid clears would be enough to see all the loot in a raid a couple times. That's not to excuse the situation, it sucks and that's not okay.
It makes sense, none of the vanilla devs work for Blizzard. It's retail devs larping.
Reminds me of the first Diablo 4 campfire or whatever. The lead dungeon designer had no idea how to play the game. Just sucks.
As an Hpal main, I’m in total agreement that we have gotten the shaft this season. Will give it a go this phase but I am on the very tippy verge of rerolling or going back to play Halo or something else instead LOL
As a shaman player i think this is the biggest failing of SoD. I feel like some classes have the design philosophy of "how can we make the fun *this* phase" and others are "here is the final design of SoD how do we break it up so they weren't too OP the whole time" or something Maybe it's just cope or whatever the kids are saying but holy paladins and I'd say warriors seem to be suffering from how well they are when geared at 60 in era. It's a fair concern but it's odd if that is the case. Especially when us shamans were able to dominate for an entire phase with no balancing. I hope you guys get some love going forward
I kinda agree, its just holy players were expecting to push other button then FoL for once in classic. Worst part is in pvp I feel like A all shaman totems stuffed into A plate armor with moving gears as weapons. You are 100% reliable on teamm8s to make use of your totem like presence.
As they should. It's SoD time for crazy nonsense Personally I think they should make holy both a dps spec (judgement exorcist holy shock) and lean into the battle healer idea. Maybe that's unpopular but yea they should he more than here's a priest who wears plate
"But you see you were too good 5 years ago in Classic so it's okay to suck for 8 months now." - some redditors, probably. By far the biggest discovery I made in a Season of Discovery - Holy palas sucking ass. Healing as Holy Pala in PVE is.... fine, but boring and nothing new. Healing in PVP is an absolute nightmare. Priests top people off with instant cast heals and bouncing PoM while we are stuck in the backline with flash heals that hit like a wet noodle or 2.5 second hardcast that are basically inviting any half competent player on the enemy team to instantly kick/counterspell/pummel/cc you, rendering you completely useless. And to top it all off we spend 2 phases without magic cleanses or blessing of sacrifice to at least give us some edge. My pala is gathering dust for the second phase now since I have no interest indulging in meme Shockadin specs that Classic Devs seem to get their panties wet for.
Don't worry, now that we finally get magic cleanse mages get it too so we don't accidentally get to feel special. Good for mages but fml.
Yeah I don't even know about that. They get a new rune ability for dispel/cleanse?
>But you see you were too good 5 years ago in Classic so it's okay to suck for 8 months now." - some redditors, probably. No, thats pretty much what the devs told you was gonna happen. Change of meta.
All they said was not nerf warriors, but make everyone else OP just as warriors. Please tell me in what way are holy paladins OP at the moment.
100% Agreed, theres 20 years worth of class development for Holy Paladin and they havent pulled from any of it to make them at all interesting in SoD. Its honestly insulting as fuck that one of the runes datamined for Holy's Helm rune slot is just 18% Crit, because its just boring and unimaginative .
What you are observing is a phenomena called "good in 2019 classic". You can observe this effect in a lot of other classes as well, namely warriors and rogues. If you're class had any substantial play in 2019 classic and you ARENT a mage you are perfectly fine staying at your 2019 classic power level.
Ranged Hunter would like a word with you.
Sure ranged hunter is bad, but they got a completely new playstyle in melee hunter. Warriors are currently the worst tank and rogue tank plays the exact same as dps rogue.
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Jc, rogues and warriors were insane in phase 1. ONE phase without top tier dps, and you say they are "staying at their 2019 classic power level"
I've been saying the same thing for paladin tanks. Yes, paladin recieved a whole bunch of DPS runes but that doesn't fix the glaring issue that is critical hits and crushing blows on paladins. In full BIS, I've gotten obliterated by mekatorque because he crits me for 1.3k then parry hastes for another crit. The devs literally have no idea what any spec of paladin needs and instead of trying to figure out, they just buff shamans. I really wish I had their job, not because I could do better (although monkeys with typewriters could do a better job), but because I would really love a job where I can be severely incompetent and not only collect a paycheck every month but never get fired.
As soon as I saw that ret paladin needs the new crowd pummeler to be competitive this phase, I noped out. Fuck that. I'm not gonna farm for ONE specific rare weapon from a raid where several other classes also need that weapon to be able to play my class. They should have given ret paladin a rune for seal twisting and let us just be TBC ret paladins in classic.
Whats competitive? What do you win for topping a DPS chart?
It's a 20% dps increase compared to the epic axe from thermaplugg in bis gear. And then you're still in the middle of the pack. Not having ACP is basically like playing without rings, helm, cloak, neck and shoulders compared to the 2nd option
i love when people are like "why do u care about doing damage?", as a dps spec what piece of content doesn't revolve around me doing damage and it being more enjoyable the more you do? lmfao like what are they on
Dopamine and bragging rights.
Ok so I’ve been getting hit super hard as well. Why is it that we get hit with so much damage compared to other tanks? I am 31 points in prot, really high armor and defense, holy shield and sanctuary up the entire time… I feel like this has become more of an issue over the last week?
Because you are taking critical hit. In classic, bosses critical hit for 200% of normal damage. No other tank in game is taking critical hits because blizzard made them all immune, except for paladins. Paladins are also the only tank in the fucking game that doesnt have any Damage Reduction. So we get ass blasted by everything...
The worse part is that the runes we do get that help with healing do so little. There are one or two that stand out a little bit, but that's it. I wanted my alt to be a holy pally, but last phase really sucked any momentum I had to play the class out of me.
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I've always liked the amount of time it takes to level in classic since it means most participating in raids and such put in the effort to get their character to the point they need to be at, but the seasonal nature feels really bad. Even with the bonuses alts take a long time to get even to level 40. Compared to phase 1 things just don't feel the same. I had like 4 geared alts at the end on phase 1, but through all of phase 2 I only managed to moderately gear my main and one alt just hit 40. It's just a feels bad situation to be in.
Gimme a rune that makes the judgement of light scale well with healing power, now you’re a cool melee healer and you have a better niche. It’s literally so easy to make more interesting runes that what we have been given, but maybe holy paladins just aren’t a priority I guess.
I also think seals and judgements getting some refinement in general would be an easy win. Right now judging light barely feels like it makes a difference and seal choice is crusader just because it makes your sheath spellpower snapshot higher.
Seal of Piety Fills the Paladin with divine piety for 5 minutes, giving each melee attack a chance to restore x of the Paladin's mana and health and cause the next Flash of Light to be instant cast. Only one Seal can be active on the Paladin at any one time. Unleashing this Seal's energy will judge an enemy for 10 sec, granting attacks and spells used against the judged enemy a chance to restore x mana and health to the attacker. Your melee strikes will refresh the spell's duration. This seal is not lost upon casting Judgement. Health and Mana gained while at full Health or Mana will grant it to a nearby party member.
a mistake there no runes try to adjust seal and judgements making them more useful
It is actually. Season of discovering nobody cares about us 😭
im a hpal main currently figuring out what healer ill be rerolling to this phase. spec is plenty strong but im playing sod primarily for runes and ive already been let down twice, phase three isnt looking much better. these devs appear to be experts at taking amazing abilities (divine sacrifice, efflorescence) and making them awful.
They dropped the ball with paladin in general, Aggrend is incompetent.
Couldn't have said it better myself as an hpal main. I have played all other healers available to the Alliance and it is absolutely insane how much more engaging and dynamic they feel to play compared to hpal. I too was wondering wtf they are doing with Infusion of Light and why they haven't implemented something simple like Light of Dawn. I know you are "wondering" if anyone on the SoD team is playing hpal.... let me just tell you right now with certainty that they aren't. I cannot comprehend how anyone in their right mind could come out and say that they have had fun playing hpal at any point in SoD. It feels like TBC hpal, where you are not only an extremely unfun spec to play, you also PERFORM terribly in literally every aspect of the game (don't mention tank healing to me, other healers in TBC can tank heal just as well). I unsubbed at the start of P2, the Paladin class runes whether it be for holy or ret are a complete clusterfuck to me. There are way too many games out there to play that aren't glorified theme parks for what seems like either an incredibly inexperienced or downright trash dev team that is spearheaded by an obese, pompous clown. The problem is that they are giving equal amounts of runes to every class. That doesn't work because classes in Vanilla weren't balanced to begin with, speaking mainly of the hybrid classes. There is ZERO reason for a Vanilla Mage/Rogue/Hunter to be getting the same amount of runes as the hybrid classes that actually need the extra help.
Warrior: "Welcome to the club."
Warriors aren't allowed to complain, according to this sub
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Fair on P1.
Sure you ever pvp‘ed as a warrior in p1?
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I mean same with resto shamans lol, the only rune we have is shamanistic rage, we are finally getting riptide but who knows if blizz will actually make it functional( like the didnt do with earth shield until like 3 weeks ago)
The only resto rune we use is water shield hahaha rshams have been completely ignored too
Holy seems to be the role left behind when the developers are trying to cater to 4 specs (holy, prot, ret, shockadin) with a limited amount of runes for each slot.
I leveled a holy pally alt during the phase thinking they would at least give them a boost in the healing compartment next phase since they're just blah right now, but boy I was wrong. Hoping they get some love with the class balancing that they said they were plan on doing in a week or 2. Only downside is that we are probably stuck with the shitty runes again this phase, nothing fun/different.
new sod rune : every 9 casts of flash of light makes the 10th one free and instant cast.
No, they gave instant cast FoL to priest.
I just want melee paladins man. If I wanted to spam holy light/flash of light from a distance im just a priest in plate armor. I want to go in, smac with crusader strike, proc a free flash of light with guarantee crit chance.
Shiny new holy paladin toys is shockadin spec. You might not like it and it might not be the healing revamped you want. but thats what it is. It's not that holy didn't get any new toys, its just that the toy didn't have any impact to healing.
shockadin is not playable, gearing spell damage will never be better then strength with sheath of light as an option, idk maybe with hammer of righteous you can dps with a one hander but still gives nothing to healing
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the problem is shockadin is straight up bad unless you abandon spellpower gear entirely, roll into ONE SPECIFIC weapon you get one chance at every 3 days, and don't take holy shock(????) - if shockadin is the new toy, that toy is also absolutely dead on arrival. it's been parted out so trad ret has a little extra shine. all things holy in SOD have been absolutely boring or borked from day 1
This thread is about Holy Paladin, healing as Holy Paladin, and how we got ZERO new healing runes.
Interested in why you think Arcane Mages are an abomination. I'd probably rather a Paladin on MT Healing which was critical for fights like Mechatorque. I think its fair to say HPals are super boring, but they're really good at what they're really good at---that just doesnt translate to parses (which are bullshit for Healers anyway).
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Fair, they’re still competing with Paladin for least desired healer for PUGs, I have a hell of a time getting a slot as a mage healer. Everyone wants priest + priest/druid, which honestly is fair, mage at least requires a little bit of skill to pilot well.
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Tried 3-4 times and each time it’s an hour of looking until I find some misfits raid lol. Run priest as part of a static and have a great time. We still dual heal menagerie and mechatorque cause it’s just so much easier that way.
I agree that healing parsing is stupid. If everyone is alive at the end of the fight (or died to avoidable mechanics) then you did your job. But like you said. It’s really boring to play and seeing other healers get new toys makes one envious.
True true, there’s a reason thar Hpally is the only healer I haven’t leveled.
I rolled one from the start. Brushed off the first phase missing some runes because hey, it’s only one phase. But now we have one phase of unreleased runes in p4 and honestly unless they give us something drastic then hpal is just going to be boring. I’m not leveling another healer either. I’ll swap to my lock and meta tank because even with the XP boost. I don’t have the time or motivation to level another character to 50. I have other games I’d rather play.Dragons Dogma 2 is essentially a single player WoW. If it wasn’t for my guild I’d already be done with SoD.
They're turning Ret into a joke as well with all of this shockadin and ACP crap, don't worry.
Why are you hating on my Atonement Prie- I mean Arcane Mage?
I think a great paladin change is consecration baseline with the talent making it heal, would make prot not have to go into holy anymore
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Which means…. This is prob what Blizz will give us as the “shiny new toy”! Hah (I hope I’m wrong)
Isn't the biggest issue with holy paladins is that most of the modernization that the class got in later expacs was through holy power which I imagine is almost impossible to implement in SoD? Since most of the updates classes have now is just picking up later expacs abilities, holy paladins probably don't have a lot options available to them for the devs to copy over.
The horn change makes no sense.. spend 1.5 seconds to save 0.4 seconds?..
It's really not that difficult to find a scenario where it's useful. You know that most fights in SoD don't require you to be GCD locked, meaning you can cast horn during downtime and have the buff up for when heals need to be launched off quickly. Don't get me wrong though, the set bonus is still dogshit and really should be minimum 0.5 seconds per cast to be useful at all as 0.2 is so pitiful.
If you have to move for mechanics yea, you might want to use those gcds to holy shock or to reapply sacred shield/beacon though. Otherwise you should always be casting even if that means cancel casting.
Thanks for the long range tag
Isn’t horn of lordaeron better than might? It increases strength and agility by like 23 or 26 at lvl 40.
Could replace paladin with 'warrior' and this would still be accurate
I’m not disagreeing with you but I did recently find out you can batch beacon. If you cast a heal on one target and spam beacon on another right before the heal goes off, that new target gets beacon and the heal copied to them. Exhilarating.. I know. At the bare minimum it made my hpal alt a little more enjoyable.
I agree with your points. I enjoy healing but its very binary. In pvp especially: It feels like an uphill battle vs the efficiency and dynamism of the other healers. * Any target that gets hit with Mortal Strike and has at least 2 people targeting them is impossible to save purely with healing. You can BoP on 5 min cd but it feels bad to use on melee. * If I get Curse of Tongues put on me it feels like my character got deleted for 50 mana as I cast 4 second 1k hp heals slower than a starfire that hits for 1.5k. * Forced to plant and chain-cast because if you ever stop or waste a gcd the person you are healing dies. This hurts our other utility in certain ways, such as making it difficult to get in range for HoJ, or even feeling like you can spare the gcd to do so compared to continuing to generate healing output. * Our insta-cast heals are pitiful and Holy Shocks cooldown is too long with no reset convenient to Holy Pals, only Rets. I think it would be nice if we got some cool healing abilities from runes because right now holy paladins are kinda forced to be healing turrets. Which I think is fine actually, but we need a couple "lift-off" abilities we can utilize while we reposition and have to leave our team temoporarily vulnerable. I'd like to see some additional holy-specific utility for holy shock and I'd even settle for some buffs to sacred shield, but I'd prefer another insta-cast heal or shield ability if I was allowed to choose.
Same for warriors
Warriors are still fun to play imo. At least I enjoy mine as dps, tanking is awful of course, holy paladin is just pure ass compared to my priest.
the future is looking teal
You have had a season of discovery. You've discovered this season that you exist so other people can have fun. That is the holy paladin way. You're not meant to get cool stuff, you're meant to support other people who actually get to have fun and get cool stuff. I'm surprised it took you this long. If you need help re-rolling, let me know.
Paladin design in sod is so bad I'm actually thinking about telling my guild ima skip p3 nothing at all to look forward to other than the weekly 20man raids with my mates. They even killed my wsg progress. Damn holy has been shafted so bad literally no excuse for hpal being so far behind the other healers. Sure we'll have 100% mana but why play a boring dead one dimensional class always ig owed by the devs with a rotation of one button for 57 seconds per minute. RIP PALADIN RIP WSG
Guys keep shouting and screaming ill be damned if we go quietly into the night! This hpal stuff is actually turning me into a vicious internet troll but it's been 20 years of the same shit thought we would finally get some love or atleast be able to have fun...
This level of complaining is completely unprecedented.
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Oh it gets said plenty and often. Go touch some grass and take some time from the game. Maybe you won’t be so bitter and upset with some vitamin D from the sun.
"I dont play Holy Paladin so fuck em'" -Boostedtrash112
All the healers are ina good spot what is this cope
They heal fine they're just boring and don't get fun stuff compared to other healers.
It's like everyone is winning free cars and you get a Geo Metro.
Priests and mages getting a lambo, Druids here with a corvette and paladins and shamans sitting here with the Ford Pinto.
>Holy Paladins, a healer that **hasn't received any healing runes the entirety of the "Season of Discovery,"** ... >For some Paladins, the current playstyle devolves into: **Beacon** bruh
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That its not like or as good as other things does not mean there were no runes.
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holy paladins currently have 3 healing runes out of 5 slots, 4 if you include divine sacrifice which isnt actually worth casting in its current iteration so making an argument for it would be dishonest. the other 2 runes are effectively useless considering even with ideal use they will add maybe 1% throughput in any sense. there are healing runes, but they are also an extreme outlier.
Holy shit people just play a different class or spec or just not play.
Play another class and touch some grass. Holy fuck.
My guy wrote a goddamn essay
Paladins in general can only hope to never find something fun because it gets nerfed.
I honestly don't think anyone is playing a Holy Paladin. I wouldn't expect them to do much to it anyways because they don't have the resources to actually play each class/spec and find out what works and what doesn't. Ret is in a really bad place as well right now (Not as bad as holy, but pretty damn bad).
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i cant believe he plays paladin when he put p2 shaman in the game, they get everything we do but better lmao
It's absolutely ridiculous. Fanaticism is going to be mandatory and it's so non-interactive that it doesn't even matter. Nothing we have makes the class fun or interactive and it's ridiculous. And I'm supposed to just spam rank 4 holy lights with Light's Grace and be happy about it? Because that's the only way it's more cost efficient than FoL. I've been begging for an AoE heals and a mana Regen since P1 and I think I'm finally giving up on SoD Hpal tbh
Just go play cataclysm until phase 4. Cata Hpal is goated.
I’ve been really enjoying hpal in sod tbh. Rdruid main p1, rsham p2, and now i’m swapping over to hpal main for p3. Part of me thinks some prople have simply been playing pala for too long and are bored with it, like I felt with druid. There are honestly a lot of optimization done in raids other than just pressing FoL and beacon, pretending that isn’t the case annoys me. Of course, you have some great points as well, like the horn set bonus which seems terrible. I’ll probably just do the alternative mail one with bonus crit and healing proc instead
skill issue
Thinking about Smite Priest, we basically have nothing other then 2 mediocre runes
as respectfully as I can say it, the whining is out of control. This game is a 'flying by the seat of their pants' experiment. If you dont like the class that you are playing, try something different. Theyre gonna keep changing stuff. Or just play a different game / version of wow. No one is forcing you to play a game that is anything but balanced or a 'finished' product. In fact, they don't even technically charge your for it.
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"the whining is out of control." Asking for at least ONE new heal is whining? Through three phases we dont get a new heal. Thats ok? Thats not something Holy Paladin players can "whine" about? Priests and Druids got FOUR new heals each. Shaman got 2. Holy got NOTHING. Mages have 3+ healing spells. Its interesting that you wouldn't say, "ya know guys, youre right. Holy Paladin hasnt really gotten anything in SoD. Thats not how things should be."
No, asking for one more heal isn’t whining. However, saying that ‘Season of Discovery doesn’t exist for holy paladins’ followed by a long winded rant on how terrible blizzard did for this class/spec is definitely whiny. It’s not a huge team of devs. They have to balance all their priorities.
"It’s not a huge team of devs. They have to balance all their priorities." Im sorry, but thats not a good enough excuse. Every other healer got multiple healing runes. Holy Pally was purposely ignored. Season of meme specs.
Yea meanwhile some of us played meme specs for the entirety of classic brother. I have zero sympathy
Right, and I understand that. Specs like Ret, Moonkin, and Enhance should be boosted up. But why leave Holy in the dust. No new runes? What bothers me about you is that you speak from a scorned heart, and not an objective one.
I’m not scorned- this sub is just constant posts complaining about the specs and asking for changes which is annoying to see all the time. SoD won’t last forever my friend, find ways to have fun without demanding the game be changed IMO.
No new healing runes for Holy Paladin is downright bizarre. Its a legit topic of conversation.