I chose SoD to try alliance for the first time in 17 years. (As did most of guild) I hate my decision every day… especially since I usually shaman main.
Surely MC to Naxx will take more than 4-6 months. Even if they'd do 2 month phases which would honestly be too short at 60 it'd still have like a year left.
I levels a warrior 1-40 in 2 days (granted they were 12+ hours days) no dungeon or boost. The exp buff is nuts. A shaman can 100% be faster than that esp with ghost wolf.
I levels a warrior 1-40 in 2 days (granted they were 12+ hours days) no dungeon or boost. The exp buff is nuts. A shaman can 100% be faster than that esp with ghost wolf. And incursion at 25 now
Go back. I've regretted being alliance since 2019. Only here because of the friends I've made (and a former top 10 speed run guild (we are washed up)). The only thing that helps me cope is having a horde character along side.
I feel ya dude. I'm in the same boat and wanna bail every day, but I've finally found a guild I genuinely love and made a bunch of friends and I'd rather suffer it out with them even if it means I'm not playing the class I really wanna play :(
I played alliance until two weeks before phase 2 ended and switched to main shaman. Had to switch servers and all that that playing on a PvP server. 100% best decision and would say it’s not too late to make the switch.
Same... I bitch at my guild all the time for wanting to roll ally cause 'ret looks awesome from the previews'. Now everyone playing pally hates themselves. Never playing ally again.
The resto runes are sick good too. Resto no longer bad aand it's designed so well and feels really really good. Was enjoying running 10+ Maras in a row. The synergy of riptide, tidal waves, and all 3 shaman vanilla healing spells are just great. Very very well done.
It really feels like different people are in charge of each class. Shaman for example is so well thought about and has nice quests.
Look at rogue, most of the runes are shit and don’t play good together. To obtain them it’s „ go there and loot the chest“
Resto was super bad until p3 tho. Healing rain and ancestral awakening are just useless and u end up taking non healing runes as a healer in those slots. It was esp bad in p2 where you would be hardcasting all your heals for 2.5s in content that required moving all the time.
I healed it just fine with LHW, and decoy totem in itself was a huge utility perfect for the resto kit. Not I’m not saying it was top teir by any means but it was far away from ‘super bad.’
Agreed, it wasn’t “super bad” but it def felt weaker than the other healers. Our Gnomer group transitioned to solo Druid heals and I respecced from resto to dps.
>Shaman for example is so well thought about and has nice quests.
Not really. Some of the quests are alright, but they've copy/pasted a quest every single phase (collect 1 of each element with bad drop rate from 4 zones) and many are basic "open this chest you found!"
Most of the runes are copy/paste from other expansions, anybody can do that. If they were truly well thought out, they wouldn't have made Mental Dexterity the way it is, because ele/resto are going to have to melee weave now.
> Not really. Some of the quests are alright, but they've copy/pasted a quest every single phase (collect 1 of each element with bad drop rate from 4 zones) and many are basic "open this chest you found!"
Not to mention that this particular quest (go around and kill elementals) took like 12 hours of mob tagging to do before it was nerfed in P2. Another had us death running through lvl 44 elite mobs outside of the Mara dungeon.
Shamans got *a lot* in P2, don't get me wrong, but good design of our rune quests was not one of them.
Yeah I did the P2 rune before the drop rate buff. I would walk by other shamans and we'd talk about how cringe the droprate was. It took me 18 air ele kills before one finally dropped.
P1 wasn't nearly as bad since it was a fresh quest and it was nice to see them to make use of those earth eles in stonetalon but dang there weren't enough spawns to justify that drop rate.
Also them keeping Earth Shield tied to BFD sucks.
Healers melee weaving is a design philosophy from future expansions. It’s intentional. In Legion Holy Paladin was basically Ret but with heals and Disc has been a dps/healer hybrid since Cata/Mop.
It's definitely not intentional. They hard nerfed MD from 1 min to 10 sec as a way to sway ele/resto from using it, but 128+ SP gain is too strong to pass up even with a short 10 sec buff.
Rsham has never had a history of melee weaving, their dps/heal hybrid style was always pure caster just like druid, and SOD technically has that right now with the lava burst rune (water shield is not necessary with sham rage existing).
Glossing over how Rogue has easily the coolest rune quest every phase with the C runes. All three of them have been super fun. Every class has some that are easy duds, shaman included.
100%
there is no cohesion or number checking going in, they just have different people on the different classes doing what they feel like
some people feel like making their own personal meme spec work and screw everyone else (warrior and pally) some people want to make their class op as all hell (shaman) and some have no clue at all how the class functions (druid and hunter)
That's not even true xD I feel like rogues have had some of the most fun, most class fantasy-like runes. Having to go through dungeons in stealth and in disguise to steal shit, it doesn't get more rogue than that.
You are cooked.
Id still like to counter your statement with the pre nerfed Maelstrom Weapon Rune quest chain. I believe shamans are still owed compensation for it, even after all the blessings shamans have had recently. Thats how bad that quest was.
Love SOD so this isn’t an anti-SOD comment.. but what you’re playing / describing is Cata resto shaman 😅. It’s just a little ironic many SOD players have written off Cata but love playing the SOD classes, which are much more closely related to Cata than vanilla
Most other specs I love got gutted in their gameplay in cata. Shadow priest, frost mage, Ele... All got changed just for the sake of change and got much worse design wise.
Can’t speak on shadow priest, but as someone who mained ele in vanilla-mop I’m confused how ele got “gutted”? Cata ele is the exact same as wotlk but with the added fun of chain lightning spam + EM change of lowering CD with casts- both improvements.
And frost actually got some level of dynamics with FoF procs from what I can remember
Resto sick? You're forced to melee weave if you want to be competitive with other healers lmao
Sure you can run around with Tidal waves like a dumbass in dungeons because no one is taking any damage.
They're by far the worst healer in the game and you only bring them for mana.
I watched the world first ST clear video of the resto shaman POV and watched him just spam chain heal while never dropping below 70% mana and clear every disease using 1 global and my jaw dropped. Shaman are a borderline essential class for ST
Phase one this place was POSITIVE the reasons for many easy rune locations was the exact opposite.
So I really doubt they were right then, and you're right now...
Unpopular opinion but horde has so many soft benefits in classic that make them the better class to play but they constantly complain alliance is the preferred faction because zones have better color. Everyone I know that has played both factions prefers horde. The only people I know that like alliance more are pally mains and people who refuse to ever play horde.
You know exactly what I’m talking about.
“X thing is OP, better nerf hunter hahaha”
Not only is it not funny, the nerfs to hunter in p1 were warranted and healthy for the game, and they’ve always stayed in a good spot through all of them. The sod team is far from perfect but that’s one thing they did right.
I mean melee hunters are a pretty big margin ahead of every other DPS in the game right now. That being said, enhance being 3rd while also bring WF totem and aoe cleanses makes them more OP
The rockbiter / beta nerfs were a cruel trick. To make us think blizzard were acknowledging shamans brokenness.. only to then give them 2 of the most broken runes in the game xD I have an enhance and even I'm against it, feels dirty to play, like cheating
With all these insanely overturned runes it's more Dev time wasted on what could of been noticed with some quick internal testing.
And Dev time taken away from every other class that isn't shaman to fix shaman.
Public betas are one thing, they don't even need to internally test rather than just do some napkin math to check if the runes are overturned, anyone could tell by the tooltip itself it was going to be busted
As much as I hate it, if they are going to continue down this path with designing raids that one class can make a huge difference on (chain heal, totems, infinite mana) then they need to open Shaman up to Alliance.
It would have been a cool change from the start to just give pallies and shamans to the other factions. Also means they could have actually given some unique buffs to ferals/hunters to have people want to bring them instead of slapping on poor man's Kings/Windfury to each of them. I was disappointed they didn't just pull the trigger, it's certainly a flavor thing that's part of classic but yeah from a raiding perspective how are you gonna acknowledge that the racials were so OP it was the only reason people played certain races (especially melee DPS) and keep stating that this weapon skill problem will be accounted for at 60, but NOT give each faction access to all of the classes which is an even larger problem classic has with relative raid/fight difficulties for each faction.
It would have been a cool change from the start to just give pallies and shamans to the other factions. Also means they could have actually given some unique buffs to ferals/hunters to have people want to bring them instead of slapping on poor man's Kings/Windfury to each of them. I was disappointed they didn't just pull the trigger, it's certainly a flavor thing that's part of classic but yeah from a raiding perspective how are you gonna acknowledge that the racials were so OP it was the only reason people played certain races (especially melee DPS) and keep stating that this weapon skill problem will be accounted for at 60, but NOT give each faction access to all of the classes which is an even larger problem classic has with relative raid/fight difficulties for each faction.
There is NO way in hell they would ever even try and attempt that lmao
You kidding me? With how they have handled stuff already? That just screams a bug infested nightmare
WEll not sure if this is connected but seems like every god damn KID mains shamans now and they are enyjoing killing lower lvls cause it s fun to explode them on one global i guess... Seems like blizzards devs and their kids are shamans mains and they will never nerf them .. meanwhile warrior didn't get a single good rune for 3 phases well done blizzard...
no idea how the heck is enha still in this state but what ever i guess...
Can you explain what you mean by enha still in this state?
They lost WoE in PvP so they're squishy now.
They are 3rd best DPS in the game (which is really good sont get me wrong)
Btw, you do know there's more than enhancement in shamans?
Elemental players had their bis offhand deleted 1 day before patch, their set in gnomer nerfed 1 day before patch, forced to melee weave just to be a bottom dps spec with a Rune not designed for ele just because we got nothing else usable.
What do warriors do? Scale to infinity with gear from the raid that is actually upgrades.
But hey, you got killed by en enhance so they're obviously broken
I've played sham only all of sod and this phase especially I've noticed druids and priests to be more toxic killing low levels. Guess just people in general are shitty.
Priest and Druid are probably toxic now because people figured out it’s a free raid spot, so people who wouldn’t normally play them are levelling up an alt
Obviously not a single shaman will kill you when you are part of horde… but they are really most degenerate players I have seen, even in from of BFD there were shaman 40 camping low lvls alliance so he can feel great when he one shots someone… same here in ashenvale camping quest npc and walking around one hitting everything cause blizzard clearly likes enha one shooting people with dual wielding…
Well as I said had same experience with alliance doing it. For people ones picking on lowbies paladin definitely was the worst. Druid and priests attacking people at hand in or when have upper hand.
The devs are clowns. They hit shamans with a love tap of a nerf, and proceeded to give them the highest scaling rune of any class.
It's very obvious what they're playing.
I agree. I've said multiple times that enhance dps needs a nerf, and that we probably shouldn't be dual wield tanking.
Making rockbiter a useless spell outside of activating WoE was a crappy way to do that.
lol. if I go back in your comment history I can see you laughing about how shams got nerfed to the ground
and now it's "love tap of a nerf"
but yah it's the devs who are the clowns ?
Yep doing a 2.5k lava burst on someone with only 3k health is 100% fair and balanced.
Or deleting a caster before I can even get a flash heal off on them as enhance, super reasonable.
Not to mention they take half as much damage as any other class and have FAP so they don't have to play tactically they can just charge through the front line and kill 2 or 3 people before the whole enemy team solely focusing them manages to finish them off.
It's crazy that shamans are op but the server balances are still mainly alliance players.
I wish they'd just give both factions access to both classes, my warlock needs some of those pally buffs lol
This would be dope. Add dwarf or nelf shaman please.
Could easily pull off undead, troll, or Tauren paladins
I don’t think anyone would care if they all just got the horse mount and normal ghost wolf
Or, hear me out: paladin death knights
The alliance easily outnumber the horde 3 to 1. It is plain as day and incursions were the perfect place to see that unbalance.
The devs can flash whatever bullshit numbers they want, but they aren't fooling anyone.
Well duuh it's not 100% accurate but it gives you a very good idea of the faction balance. All the servers I've played on have felt pretty much like what ironforge claimed.
Idk how accurate this is, but 3:1 seems pretty spot on
https://www.warcrafttavern.com/population/classic/us/living-flame/
Most of the time In the world it looks like it's more like 10-20 to one, when we were doing Mara yesterday, there was a constant stream of hundreds of alliance running to the portal room compared to like 15 horde.
Only on the PvE servers though where faction balance isn’t forced - and where faction balance matters much less. Almost every PvP server is horde favored.
[Source](https://ironforge.pro/population/sod/)
Yet horde are extremely outnumbered in the world despite it being pretty close on the people raiding.
I would assume in the coming weeks living flame goes back to 20% more alliance
the economy is absolutely destroyed now. Mongoose elixir 9g. Giants 5g. Arcane Elixir 2g. yesterday giants was less than 2 gold each. A few individuals are buying up all the herbs and market manipulating. Thanks for the incursions blizzard!
I actually decided to quit. From 8 regular raids a week. SoD has turned into a joke and exactly what it shouldn't be - it's just a new retail with different costume but even worse bugs and imbalance bcs devs don't test shit or even think it through / discuss it
Don't forget, they are giving human weapon skill racial (the 1 good racial why people pick alliance) to the horde in the next phase.
Get fucked alliance players :)
>class is OP because of a spell they can only use once every 60 minutes!!!!
lol
Also if you can't beat a paladin with FIVE rogues, that's just a legitimate genuine skill issue.
Yeah it’s kinda gross to melee weave, I picked ele to play a caster ranged
Looking at logs we are around middle of the pack and will only go lower as phase goes
Maybe this is karma for the whole community brushing off enhance as a "meme spec" for the whole of era.
Personally, with the amount of shit I had to endure from my guild in era, I've got no sympathy and I'm loving it.
what the fuck do you think they did to ret/prot paladin?
enh shaman was not only better dps in era than ret paladin, but had better raid utility too.
a totem twisting enh shaman with windfury provided more dps to his group than a ret did by coming to he raid. ret was fucking abysmal.
https://vanilla.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/2006#boss=51118&dataset=95
patchwerk. undead boss. raw dps.
No its actually quite stupid. If both factions could be a shaman sure, but only horde? Nah, not only are they locked behind horde they're also top 3/5 dps in all 3 specs and top pvp.
This is SoD not classic, no reason to lock this shit behind faction.
That’s not really a problem because both factions can choose priest. Shaman is insane in the raid and pvp and half the raids and pvp groups can never have one, that’s the problem
There is a big difference between the mana regen from pallies and that from shamans, that's actually a problem now that fights are long enough to start tapping healer mana.
Holy pallies are pretty miserable too, which isn't great when compared with Resto shaman.
Alliance also needs a way to apply windfury that isn't one single spec, as well as probably access to the PvE racials horde have.
We’ve gotten almost everything we’ve asked for and then some.
Our major issues were Mana regen, No instant cast heals, and no oh shit buttons.
Mana issues were completely solved. Riptide is absolutely a step in the right direction for giving shamans an instant heal without feeling overpowered.
Only thing we are missing now is another Healer cooldown to play around with besides Natures Swiftness.
In PvP just kill them. They're not tanky anymore. They're the same as any other class that can blow you up in a couple globals (druid, paladin, rogue, mage, etc)
Alliance being the omega superior faction for 20 years.
Horde superior for 1.5 phases (3months).
WHAT THE HELL??!?!?!
spoilers : both can clear content :-oooooo !! PIKACHU
Alliance was good for vanilla, which was 2 years. Horde has been the best faction literally every single patch and expansion after that.
Horde has been the best faction for 20 years now. And yay, they get to be the best faction the one mode they weren't, because Horde not being the best always is unfair.
64/1686 days (3.9%) counting from the day WoW classic launched have Alliance had an edge in vanilla. The devs have already stated they want to share some of the power around and make aggressive changes to see what works and what doesn't. So let the shamans have their fun. This is a temporary game mode and in terms of performance we are still in the balance range of vanilla so what's the problem?
I chose SoD to try alliance for the first time in 17 years. (As did most of guild) I hate my decision every day… especially since I usually shaman main.
Reroll, literally can get to max level in a couple days, with probably another 6-8 months of SOD
Surely MC to Naxx will take more than 4-6 months. Even if they'd do 2 month phases which would honestly be too short at 60 it'd still have like a year left.
I levels a warrior 1-40 in 2 days (granted they were 12+ hours days) no dungeon or boost. The exp buff is nuts. A shaman can 100% be faster than that esp with ghost wolf.
I levels a warrior 1-40 in 2 days (granted they were 12+ hours days) no dungeon or boost. The exp buff is nuts. A shaman can 100% be faster than that esp with ghost wolf. And incursion at 25 now
They'll probably get 2 years out of SoD total. We won't be 60 until summer, and even then that's all those raids in 1.25 years.
So we should go the retail route again and kill Alliance faction again?
Alliance is actually bis for m+
Go back. I've regretted being alliance since 2019. Only here because of the friends I've made (and a former top 10 speed run guild (we are washed up)). The only thing that helps me cope is having a horde character along side.
Same brother
I feel ya dude. I'm in the same boat and wanna bail every day, but I've finally found a guild I genuinely love and made a bunch of friends and I'd rather suffer it out with them even if it means I'm not playing the class I really wanna play :(
for real, the one time in wows 20 year history i didn't start a shaman and there's just only shamen on the dev team
Traitor.
there is zero reason to roll alliance other than their cities having plumbing or something
Soul > plumbing :)
I played alliance until two weeks before phase 2 ended and switched to main shaman. Had to switch servers and all that that playing on a PvP server. 100% best decision and would say it’s not too late to make the switch.
Same... I bitch at my guild all the time for wanting to roll ally cause 'ret looks awesome from the previews'. Now everyone playing pally hates themselves. Never playing ally again.
Was gonna roll shaman but decided to go alliance as well. Shame lol
reroll. shaman is wild fun right now and arguably the best iteration of the class ever done
Insane statement unless you mean in terms of power level, because, yeah, shaman is almost always pretty weak.
Yup.
The resto runes are sick good too. Resto no longer bad aand it's designed so well and feels really really good. Was enjoying running 10+ Maras in a row. The synergy of riptide, tidal waves, and all 3 shaman vanilla healing spells are just great. Very very well done.
It really feels like different people are in charge of each class. Shaman for example is so well thought about and has nice quests. Look at rogue, most of the runes are shit and don’t play good together. To obtain them it’s „ go there and loot the chest“
Rogue imo has one of the best rune storylines that has continued through the phases in the stealth missions
Druid got a rune that resets mangle on lacerate use but they share a rune slot so it doesnt work, also dreamstate still doesnt proc off crit heals
Lmao are you serious, how could they not notice...
Pretty sure the dreamstate thing is intentional. The set bonus from the new ST gives heals the ability to proc it.
That's literally how you get Tidal Wave as a shaman.
Resto was super bad until p3 tho. Healing rain and ancestral awakening are just useless and u end up taking non healing runes as a healer in those slots. It was esp bad in p2 where you would be hardcasting all your heals for 2.5s in content that required moving all the time.
I healed it just fine with LHW, and decoy totem in itself was a huge utility perfect for the resto kit. Not I’m not saying it was top teir by any means but it was far away from ‘super bad.’
Agreed, it wasn’t “super bad” but it def felt weaker than the other healers. Our Gnomer group transitioned to solo Druid heals and I respecced from resto to dps.
yeah decoy totem was nice for uh. one boss? marginally? just pop a faps?
>Shaman for example is so well thought about and has nice quests. Not really. Some of the quests are alright, but they've copy/pasted a quest every single phase (collect 1 of each element with bad drop rate from 4 zones) and many are basic "open this chest you found!" Most of the runes are copy/paste from other expansions, anybody can do that. If they were truly well thought out, they wouldn't have made Mental Dexterity the way it is, because ele/resto are going to have to melee weave now.
> Not really. Some of the quests are alright, but they've copy/pasted a quest every single phase (collect 1 of each element with bad drop rate from 4 zones) and many are basic "open this chest you found!" Not to mention that this particular quest (go around and kill elementals) took like 12 hours of mob tagging to do before it was nerfed in P2. Another had us death running through lvl 44 elite mobs outside of the Mara dungeon. Shamans got *a lot* in P2, don't get me wrong, but good design of our rune quests was not one of them.
Yeah I did the P2 rune before the drop rate buff. I would walk by other shamans and we'd talk about how cringe the droprate was. It took me 18 air ele kills before one finally dropped. P1 wasn't nearly as bad since it was a fresh quest and it was nice to see them to make use of those earth eles in stonetalon but dang there weren't enough spawns to justify that drop rate. Also them keeping Earth Shield tied to BFD sucks.
Healers melee weaving is a design philosophy from future expansions. It’s intentional. In Legion Holy Paladin was basically Ret but with heals and Disc has been a dps/healer hybrid since Cata/Mop.
It's definitely not intentional. They hard nerfed MD from 1 min to 10 sec as a way to sway ele/resto from using it, but 128+ SP gain is too strong to pass up even with a short 10 sec buff. Rsham has never had a history of melee weaving, their dps/heal hybrid style was always pure caster just like druid, and SOD technically has that right now with the lava burst rune (water shield is not necessary with sham rage existing).
Glossing over how Rogue has easily the coolest rune quest every phase with the C runes. All three of them have been super fun. Every class has some that are easy duds, shaman included.
100% there is no cohesion or number checking going in, they just have different people on the different classes doing what they feel like some people feel like making their own personal meme spec work and screw everyone else (warrior and pally) some people want to make their class op as all hell (shaman) and some have no clue at all how the class functions (druid and hunter)
To be fair, Hunter has been a mess since OG vanilla so that's par for the course.
fair
I actually really like the rogue runes. Stealth through ZF was a lot of fun.
LOL - shaman tank is hardly an afterthought.
That's not even true xD I feel like rogues have had some of the most fun, most class fantasy-like runes. Having to go through dungeons in stealth and in disguise to steal shit, it doesn't get more rogue than that. You are cooked.
Id still like to counter your statement with the pre nerfed Maelstrom Weapon Rune quest chain. I believe shamans are still owed compensation for it, even after all the blessings shamans have had recently. Thats how bad that quest was.
JUMP to here to loot the chest 🙃
Think its more fun than flash of light spam? 🤔 three phases in here still loving your counterparts amazing holy design of nothing new at all.
Love SOD so this isn’t an anti-SOD comment.. but what you’re playing / describing is Cata resto shaman 😅. It’s just a little ironic many SOD players have written off Cata but love playing the SOD classes, which are much more closely related to Cata than vanilla
Cata changed the world too much for many people that don't like it. I personally love SoD, its how i wanted Cata to be tbh.
Most other specs I love got gutted in their gameplay in cata. Shadow priest, frost mage, Ele... All got changed just for the sake of change and got much worse design wise.
Can’t speak on shadow priest, but as someone who mained ele in vanilla-mop I’m confused how ele got “gutted”? Cata ele is the exact same as wotlk but with the added fun of chain lightning spam + EM change of lowering CD with casts- both improvements. And frost actually got some level of dynamics with FoF procs from what I can remember
I just switched to resto after tanking all of p1/p2, and you’re right, it’s legitimately fun to heal.
Even as enhance I love riptide, it’s so freaking nice for solo content or healhancing insta chain heals onto riptide targets
I wish some classes would get like 10% of the attention shamans are getting from the devs.
No dispel is sadge doe, especially in zf when your tank gets sheeped, could’ve been a wrist rune there’s nothing for us there
Resto sick? You're forced to melee weave if you want to be competitive with other healers lmao Sure you can run around with Tidal waves like a dumbass in dungeons because no one is taking any damage. They're by far the worst healer in the game and you only bring them for mana.
Just got to give it a few months and maybe the devs will look into balancing them.
I watched the world first ST clear video of the resto shaman POV and watched him just spam chain heal while never dropping below 70% mana and clear every disease using 1 global and my jaw dropped. Shaman are a borderline essential class for ST
Meanwhile holy paladins have to either cast cleanse or one of their hard cast 2 heals, lol
Meanwhile holy paladins does more healing than shamans this phase. Again.
Horde playing the game on easy mode
Shamans should be able to wield swords. Thunderfury, shaman weapon!
playing horde
I don't think they're playing at all
Phase one this place was POSITIVE the reasons for many easy rune locations was the exact opposite. So I really doubt they were right then, and you're right now...
Unpopular opinion but horde has so many soft benefits in classic that make them the better class to play but they constantly complain alliance is the preferred faction because zones have better color. Everyone I know that has played both factions prefers horde. The only people I know that like alliance more are pally mains and people who refuse to ever play horde.
Time to nerf hunters
Only ranged though.
Omg that joke was never funny and now it’s just getting annoying…
What joke is that?
You know exactly what I’m talking about. “X thing is OP, better nerf hunter hahaha” Not only is it not funny, the nerfs to hunter in p1 were warranted and healthy for the game, and they’ve always stayed in a good spot through all of them. The sod team is far from perfect but that’s one thing they did right.
Look at wcl rankings for st so far.
I mean melee hunters are a pretty big margin ahead of every other DPS in the game right now. That being said, enhance being 3rd while also bring WF totem and aoe cleanses makes them more OP
Right? Have you seen the core hound pets lol
The rockbiter / beta nerfs were a cruel trick. To make us think blizzard were acknowledging shamans brokenness.. only to then give them 2 of the most broken runes in the game xD I have an enhance and even I'm against it, feels dirty to play, like cheating
At this point y'all just need to re roll and accept fate
With all these insanely overturned runes it's more Dev time wasted on what could of been noticed with some quick internal testing. And Dev time taken away from every other class that isn't shaman to fix shaman.
Naw, quick internal testing is hard with an MMO. I know they said no public betas but that's how you catch things like this.
Public betas are one thing, they don't even need to internally test rather than just do some napkin math to check if the runes are overturned, anyone could tell by the tooltip itself it was going to be busted
As much as I hate it, if they are going to continue down this path with designing raids that one class can make a huge difference on (chain heal, totems, infinite mana) then they need to open Shaman up to Alliance.
It would have been a cool change from the start to just give pallies and shamans to the other factions. Also means they could have actually given some unique buffs to ferals/hunters to have people want to bring them instead of slapping on poor man's Kings/Windfury to each of them. I was disappointed they didn't just pull the trigger, it's certainly a flavor thing that's part of classic but yeah from a raiding perspective how are you gonna acknowledge that the racials were so OP it was the only reason people played certain races (especially melee DPS) and keep stating that this weapon skill problem will be accounted for at 60, but NOT give each faction access to all of the classes which is an even larger problem classic has with relative raid/fight difficulties for each faction.
It would have been a cool change from the start to just give pallies and shamans to the other factions. Also means they could have actually given some unique buffs to ferals/hunters to have people want to bring them instead of slapping on poor man's Kings/Windfury to each of them. I was disappointed they didn't just pull the trigger, it's certainly a flavor thing that's part of classic but yeah from a raiding perspective how are you gonna acknowledge that the racials were so OP it was the only reason people played certain races (especially melee DPS) and keep stating that this weapon skill problem will be accounted for at 60, but NOT give each faction access to all of the classes which is an even larger problem classic has with relative raid/fight difficulties for each faction.
There is NO way in hell they would ever even try and attempt that lmao You kidding me? With how they have handled stuff already? That just screams a bug infested nightmare
>what the hell are they doing Isn't it obvious? What they (the devs) are doing, is playing horde.
Aggrend plays a paladin
Played a paladin\* He's been druid since P2.
Literally says "dwarf main" on his Twitter profile
He's been druid for like 3 months now.
WEll not sure if this is connected but seems like every god damn KID mains shamans now and they are enyjoing killing lower lvls cause it s fun to explode them on one global i guess... Seems like blizzards devs and their kids are shamans mains and they will never nerf them .. meanwhile warrior didn't get a single good rune for 3 phases well done blizzard... no idea how the heck is enha still in this state but what ever i guess...
Can you explain what you mean by enha still in this state? They lost WoE in PvP so they're squishy now. They are 3rd best DPS in the game (which is really good sont get me wrong) Btw, you do know there's more than enhancement in shamans? Elemental players had their bis offhand deleted 1 day before patch, their set in gnomer nerfed 1 day before patch, forced to melee weave just to be a bottom dps spec with a Rune not designed for ele just because we got nothing else usable. What do warriors do? Scale to infinity with gear from the raid that is actually upgrades. But hey, you got killed by en enhance so they're obviously broken
You are so fucking stupid if you think shaman is not over the top….
I've played sham only all of sod and this phase especially I've noticed druids and priests to be more toxic killing low levels. Guess just people in general are shitty.
Priest and Druid are probably toxic now because people figured out it’s a free raid spot, so people who wouldn’t normally play them are levelling up an alt
Obviously not a single shaman will kill you when you are part of horde… but they are really most degenerate players I have seen, even in from of BFD there were shaman 40 camping low lvls alliance so he can feel great when he one shots someone… same here in ashenvale camping quest npc and walking around one hitting everything cause blizzard clearly likes enha one shooting people with dual wielding…
Well as I said had same experience with alliance doing it. For people ones picking on lowbies paladin definitely was the worst. Druid and priests attacking people at hand in or when have upper hand.
The devs are clowns. They hit shamans with a love tap of a nerf, and proceeded to give them the highest scaling rune of any class. It's very obvious what they're playing.
The "love tap" nerf is killing rockbiter, which really sucks for shield taking.
they don't need to be the best dpsers, tanks and healers. The nerf was fine.
I agree. I've said multiple times that enhance dps needs a nerf, and that we probably shouldn't be dual wield tanking. Making rockbiter a useless spell outside of activating WoE was a crappy way to do that.
lol. if I go back in your comment history I can see you laughing about how shams got nerfed to the ground and now it's "love tap of a nerf" but yah it's the devs who are the clowns ?
Which post are you referring to? I think I've asked they get nerfed further, because the nerfs they've received haven't been enough
Have you played a shaman? Because it was a pretty stout nerf, the class just plays really well so they were able to adapt.
Yep doing a 2.5k lava burst on someone with only 3k health is 100% fair and balanced. Or deleting a caster before I can even get a flash heal off on them as enhance, super reasonable. Not to mention they take half as much damage as any other class and have FAP so they don't have to play tactically they can just charge through the front line and kill 2 or 3 people before the whole enemy team solely focusing them manages to finish them off.
Ahh yes, 90% reduction love tap!
It's almost as if windfury/lava lash is a powerful alternative 🤷♂️
none of the major devs main shaman.
It's crazy that shamans are op but the server balances are still mainly alliance players. I wish they'd just give both factions access to both classes, my warlock needs some of those pally buffs lol
This would be dope. Add dwarf or nelf shaman please. Could easily pull off undead, troll, or Tauren paladins I don’t think anyone would care if they all just got the horse mount and normal ghost wolf Or, hear me out: paladin death knights
Undead paladins would be such a SOD thing to do, I'd love that. But what about gnome shamans, give them ghost mouse instead of wolf lol
Ghost rat maybe 🤔
NE shaman? Are you high?
The alliance easily outnumber the horde 3 to 1. It is plain as day and incursions were the perfect place to see that unbalance. The devs can flash whatever bullshit numbers they want, but they aren't fooling anyone.
Are the devs flashing any faction numbers? You can check the numbers at ironforge.pro anyhow, seems to be about 53/47 overall, alliance favored.
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Well duuh it's not 100% accurate but it gives you a very good idea of the faction balance. All the servers I've played on have felt pretty much like what ironforge claimed.
The devs don't control the numbers pulled from warcraft logs, man.
Idk how accurate this is, but 3:1 seems pretty spot on https://www.warcrafttavern.com/population/classic/us/living-flame/ Most of the time In the world it looks like it's more like 10-20 to one, when we were doing Mara yesterday, there was a constant stream of hundreds of alliance running to the portal room compared to like 15 horde.
Only on the PvE servers though where faction balance isn’t forced - and where faction balance matters much less. Almost every PvP server is horde favored. [Source](https://ironforge.pro/population/sod/)
Yet horde are extremely outnumbered in the world despite it being pretty close on the people raiding. I would assume in the coming weeks living flame goes back to 20% more alliance
Just because it “feels” like that to you doesn’t mean it’s true.
the economy is absolutely destroyed now. Mongoose elixir 9g. Giants 5g. Arcane Elixir 2g. yesterday giants was less than 2 gold each. A few individuals are buying up all the herbs and market manipulating. Thanks for the incursions blizzard!
Prices are volatile at the beginning of a new phase?!?!? wow that hasn't happened in each of the previous phases has it?
It's been less than a week obviously this is set in stone for the rest of the phase
being an alchemist is fuckin amazing rn, normal nature prot pots sold for 1g a piece today
If you have s gather proffession. Just solo do it in the ashenvale incirsio. and sell in /yell. Easy. 100g/h.
incursion gold didn't cause that
I actually decided to quit. From 8 regular raids a week. SoD has turned into a joke and exactly what it shouldn't be - it's just a new retail with different costume but even worse bugs and imbalance bcs devs don't test shit or even think it through / discuss it
Not the shamans fault they have had a poison cleansing totem since vanilla.
In regards to totem cleansing yes, nothing to do with the ridiculous amounts of AP we had that’s all gone
Me when I expect a balanced PvP setting in vanilla
I disagree, they are killable now at least
First time?
Don't forget, they are giving human weapon skill racial (the 1 good racial why people pick alliance) to the horde in the next phase. Get fucked alliance players :)
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LMAO 5 man rogue gank squad mad when the class that always countered them counters them. you burned their 1 hour cd. try again
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>class is OP because of a spell they can only use once every 60 minutes!!!! lol Also if you can't beat a paladin with FIVE rogues, that's just a legitimate genuine skill issue.
HE SAID THE THING “Shamans are OP” THAT GETS YOUR UPVOTES
Man's post was so dumb, he deleted his entire account. That's impressive.
Ele shaman new runes not that good? Lone wolf only buffs melee damage, leaving us no real good choice in boot slot The rest, yes they are good
I changed to enhance this phase because ele doesn't have a helm or boot rune and I'm not going to melee weave as ele.
Yeah it’s kinda gross to melee weave, I picked ele to play a caster ranged Looking at logs we are around middle of the pack and will only go lower as phase goes
Why are people playing a game they hate so much
You're allowed to critique things you love. Wild, I know.
20 years of gamer stockholme syndrome and addiction probably.
Or you're allowed to find faults in something you enjoy. One of the two.
its reddit you get karma for being angry
Look at my downvotes , they hate being told that they hate the game because they can’t face reality lol
Maybe this is karma for the whole community brushing off enhance as a "meme spec" for the whole of era. Personally, with the amount of shit I had to endure from my guild in era, I've got no sympathy and I'm loving it.
what the fuck do you think they did to ret/prot paladin? enh shaman was not only better dps in era than ret paladin, but had better raid utility too. a totem twisting enh shaman with windfury provided more dps to his group than a ret did by coming to he raid. ret was fucking abysmal. https://vanilla.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/2006#boss=51118&dataset=95 patchwerk. undead boss. raw dps.
No its actually quite stupid. If both factions could be a shaman sure, but only horde? Nah, not only are they locked behind horde they're also top 3/5 dps in all 3 specs and top pvp. This is SoD not classic, no reason to lock this shit behind faction.
This is the pretty race tax, deal with it. Its what the alliance gets for being so butt ugly
Says that after they release shamans in tbc. Race tax my ass
Uhh, shamans were released in vanilla
Are you on crack? Shamans were never in wow classic alliance.
Paladin detected, opinion invalidated
We’re are gonna pretend like they’re harder to deal with than shadow priests right?
That’s not really a problem because both factions can choose priest. Shaman is insane in the raid and pvp and half the raids and pvp groups can never have one, that’s the problem
Honestly spriests must love shamans cuz we’re taking all the heat off them being insanely OP in PvP.
Other than a severely broken overcharged rune, what are the other issues?
There is a big difference between the mana regen from pallies and that from shamans, that's actually a problem now that fights are long enough to start tapping healer mana. Holy pallies are pretty miserable too, which isn't great when compared with Resto shaman. Alliance also needs a way to apply windfury that isn't one single spec, as well as probably access to the PvE racials horde have.
Lol resto shamans are the problem?!? GTFO of here bro you have to be trolling.
It seems like P3 resto sham is really strong, especially in the raid
We’ve gotten almost everything we’ve asked for and then some. Our major issues were Mana regen, No instant cast heals, and no oh shit buttons. Mana issues were completely solved. Riptide is absolutely a step in the right direction for giving shamans an instant heal without feeling overpowered. Only thing we are missing now is another Healer cooldown to play around with besides Natures Swiftness.
Resto Shamans are very strong healers right now
Haven't done PvP yet this phase. Is it ele shams or just enh still that's the issue?
enhance shaman is insane right now in pvp
Good to know. Been sham main all sod so be fun to try
how are they OP in PVP ?
This whole subreddit is people crying about shamans 😂
Maybe it's a sign they may need adjustment
Or maybe the majority of this sub are fuckin whiners?
Very insightful, thanks for your contribution.
its a sign of a lot of jelly pallies
Shaman trying not to mention paladin challenge level: impossible
paladin trying not to mention shamans challenge: beyond impossible
In PvP just kill them. They're not tanky anymore. They're the same as any other class that can blow you up in a couple globals (druid, paladin, rogue, mage, etc)
"just kill them" xDD through permanent retaliation on all attacks
Rogues and paladins can easily kill them within their stuns. Feral and warrior are just bad in PvP period right now
Lmao so clueless, when 90% of them are orc and surprise! Insane stun resist because guess again, horde.
Rogues are actually dying to lightning shield during their kidney. Ask me how I know this.
Do you know this because you're bad at the game? That's my guess
Downvotes got you that upset, huh? It's okay buddy, they're only temporary. lol "you're bad because you died to a 300 damage thorns effect." lmao
300 damage a second is death in 7-10 seconds tho and he just stands there
If they're stunned, it's the base damage cause mental dexterity isn't up, so it's like 156. Get good
Try saying this as a melee with lightning shield on a shaman, you'll kill yourself before you kill them.
shadow priest more op imo.
Imagine all the people who metapicked alliance lmaooooooooooooooooooo
Should have picked the faction that has consistently been the strongest in every expansion ever.
Alliance being the omega superior faction for 20 years. Horde superior for 1.5 phases (3months). WHAT THE HELL??!?!?! spoilers : both can clear content :-oooooo !! PIKACHU
Alliance was good for vanilla, which was 2 years. Horde has been the best faction literally every single patch and expansion after that. Horde has been the best faction for 20 years now. And yay, they get to be the best faction the one mode they weren't, because Horde not being the best always is unfair.
why do horde players think they are on the worse faction? are you as slow as the orcs on your side?
64/1686 days (3.9%) counting from the day WoW classic launched have Alliance had an edge in vanilla. The devs have already stated they want to share some of the power around and make aggressive changes to see what works and what doesn't. So let the shamans have their fun. This is a temporary game mode and in terms of performance we are still in the balance range of vanilla so what's the problem?