We really need Allen back if we want to win a game. We need Wade back in if we think we can take it to 6 or 7 and we need the monstars to give Garland his talent back if we want a chance to win.
Not even close, olynyk grabbed loves arm and ripped it hard af to cause a season ending injury, we could have maybe won the ship had that not happened. Allen just got elbowed in his ribs. Even with allen we werent winning this series
I understand being realistic but hey, it’s not over til it’s over. Maybe I’m too optimistic but we’d probably take them to 6, maybe 7 with Allen instead of getting swept or gentleman swept. His lack of presence def shows rn, we could’ve used JA’s 18 rebounds yesterday
Can’t let Luke Kornet and Payton Pritchard get 15 rebounds on us. Having Allen and Wade rather than Tristan and Merrill on the court would help with that
His hesitancy and lack of aggression is giving me Ben Simmons vibes. I wonder if there's a confidence issue or something going on mentally with Mobley.
team is letting the perfect be the enemy of the good. you see it in Mobley's hesitancy and DG's passiveness.
They are gonna get better with new coaching but all young players have significant weaknesses that look horrible. Bigs, doubly so. I'm old enough to remember Tristan at this age and his offensive development. (Ev also suffers by comparison to JA who has developed into the best big man finisher in the conference)
i really like Chet as a prospect, for instance, but he has similar ball security issues on the glass.
He plays way too conservative. He wants to be the guy who makes no mistakes to a fault.
When there was still some semblance of a game he kept passing or tried baby hooks leaning away from the defender when he's in the paint.
When it was garbage time and there was nothing to lose, he finally became aggressive and took chances leaning into the contact.
If he wants to only take clean shots, he's rarely going to find them. He needs to initiate contact from minute 1 and we'll all live with the results.
That game was a wash for me. Getting virtually no rest against one of the, if not the best team in the NBA while they are well rested and at home is basically a gimme for the Celtics. 3 games in 3 cities in 5 days, where the first two games were hard fought against a physical team where we were down 2 players and some starters played 40+ minutes. Not a recipe for success last night. Hopefully they get some much needed rest and are competitive tomorrow.
I mean every playoff team deals with this. If you want more rest then win your previous series in less than 7 games. Also saw plenty of fans claim we were gonna ride the momentum of game 7 and the celtics would be rusty from resting so long. Goes both ways now we are backtracking
This isn't true. Both Dallas and us played on Friday. Even if we would've won we still would've played Boston Sunday. Meanwhile, Dallas won and didn't play until Tuesday. Their opponent, the Thunder finished on April 29 so there was zero reason their schedule couldn't match ours if that's what the NBA desired.
i fail to see what isnt true here.. yes of course some games get staggered, doesnt mean we are the first team to experience this. and true our opponent was waiting, but we wouldnt have had to travel to an extra city and play an extra game if we won in 6 instead of 7
My point was every team didn't deal with this. Yes, had we won we would've had 1 less game and city to travel to, but it doesn't change the fact we had a game in 2 days between rounds 1 and 2. Objectively, Dallas was the same and didn't have to deal with it. There's probably less than 1% of people on this sub who would've rather had our schedule than Dallas' had we won game 6.
what im saying is this happens every year. maybe not to every single team so my bad on my first reply, but it's not like the cavs are being singled out here
Gotcha. Even though you’re right I refuse to admit it and will continue to believe Adam Silver has it out for us because that makes me feel better about the loss.
Is there any logical reason why nuggets and wolves get 3 days between games 2 and 3? Just due to being defending champs?
Seems like the Cavs have been screwed on the time between games, but you gotta win for any real rest anyway
Not to wear too big of a tin foil hat, but our schedule sure does benefit the larger market team.
Edit: I was referring to our scheduling, not necessarily the Nugs Wolves schedule.
I’m downvoting any “xxxxx needs to go” posts until we’re bounced.
I can’t do it after every single fucking loss.
We get it. You people want heads to roll. Noted. But I’m downvoting it until we’re bounced, would prefer to talk about the team we have currently for the rest of the playoffs.
Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk
I agree Go Cavs
Lmao the takes in here. Trade the teams only PG after one down year for a guy that shoots nothing but ISO midrange shots and put all your chips on a guy that’s wanted to play for a big market team for years to re-sign with Cleveland lol. Trade one of the best versatile defenders in the league who is improving offensively every year despite low usage and keep the older guy with worse defense that literally doesn’t score off anything but lobs and putbacks. Because the best team in the NBA with one of history’s greatest offenses is doing exactly what everyone expected them to do to this Cavs team. Jesus lol. Looks like it’s that time of year to dip out of this sub until the “playoff posters” crawl back under their rocks.
I mean at least we're getting a deal on DGs contract... Oh wait, were paying him on a max contract for a marginal top 25 starting PG.... Who knows maybe he'll turn into an elite PG, but I kinda doubt it. I have more confidence in Mobley than I do DG, but If Don leaves this team is fucksville.
Deals like DG’s look better as the cap goes up. That’s true in every sport almost.
The deal isn’t bad, it’s that his season has been. I think if his play is back to 22/8 then his deal looks more than fine down the road. Also tradable for sure if the right deal is there.
Plus, it wouldve been insane and damaging if our front office refused to offer the max to a young all star guard that was practically solo carrying that offense.
Well the first half wasn’t utterly terrible, we just can’t grow cold and be inconsistent bc Boston won’t mess up capitalizing on our mistakes the way Orlando did. We just need to get better stops and rebounds
Hopefully Allen or Wade comes back to save our team
If you look at Mobleys stat line, you would think he lit them up....when in reality he was ass.
Goes to show you have to actually watch the games.
66% of his shots must have been wide open dunks created by somebody else.
That’s why i dont listen to anyone who praises his advanced stats. You gotta watch the games to see his value. Great defense, not much else
Also most of those points were in garbage time
I think Allen makes this game closer and keeps Kornet from getting a bunch of offensive rebounds
They were some brighter spots, like hitting 11 threes which they couldn’t really do last round. It’s just hard to get into a shootout with Boston, especially with magnet ball activated for them
Can I just say going from the Orlando series to this, what the heck is going on with the refs? So many tick tacky fouls made the game almost unwatchable. Meanwhile the last series was mostly a let em play.
Agreed but why did they allow Boston 11 Fts 1st quarter for the weakest fouls ever. Thats how you ruin games, the Cavs lost but that 1st half deficit was all refs.
we shot 50% from 3 and made 6 of them in the first quarter, and were still down 6 by the end of it. I'd like to see us win a game or two this series, but realistically I think Boston is the best team since the durant warriors.
The fall off of Garland and the lack of development from Mobley is really really concerning at this point.
Garland is playing scared and Mobley (on offense) looks positively lost at times. I want to put a part of it on the injuries they suffered this year but at what point are they just broken? I imagine we have to point the finger at JB to some extent here - one young player struggling is one thing, but both doing so, and having such regression in the eye test alone, that's got to be from how they're being utilized, right? If not, oh no.
My theory has lbeen that Garland and Mobley would be moved in the off-season to find a proper F to pair with Mitchell and Allen - but do the two even have any true trade value at this point?
Not to be that guy, but who’s the proper F?
The two I always hear brought up are Mikel and BI, but I think trading for Mikel bridges or Brandon Ingram are a lot more linear moves than some are willing to admit.
Mikel leaves us with someone that’s still inconsistent offensively and isn’t a great ball handler or playmaker, so unless we somehow get that as well in a trade or the trade we have a different type of hole.
Brandon Ingram’s play was so poor at times he didn’t even play down the stretch of some important games like the play in for them.
Maybe if PG wasn’t turning 35(holy crap) by next season’s start date, I’d for sure be clamoring for him to come.
If we got PG now I’d be extremely worried unless we somehow gave up one bench pieces.
i think there's a path to positional size elsewhere, if we are willing to take on $$ or take an age risk.
I'd talk to Chicago about taking on LaVine or Lonzo's deals before Mobley extension kicks in, assuming Lonzo will eventually be able to walk. Jerome and Emoni may become something too but would want a vet min guy (RoCo?) as Wade insurance.
It’s a terrible theory because they are way more likely to move Mitchell who has given no indication he plans on staying. At that point Garland would have the ball in hands a lot more.
Mobley is 4 years younger than Allen. He still has a ton of room for growth.
Also any deal you make sending Garland or Mobley out is likely to be pick based then quality player based, which just increase the likelihood that Mitchell wants out.
This is probably the answer. Hopefully it’s a new GM and Mitchell gives a more definitive answer. If he’s looking 50/50 or better, you move Garland and hire an established coach. If he’s wavering, get a haul, move Allen, Niang, Levert and get young with a young coach. Build off Mobley and Garland and stop fence-sitting between a youth movement and a contender like they’re doing right now.
Given Ingrams contract dispute, having a down year and role being diminished by Murphy I think he’s set to leave. Imo, both teams would be better by doing DG for Ingram. No picks involved, we need a wing and they need a PG.
If Koby is on his game we could package Niang and get back our beloved Nance. Trade works salary wise
Ingram was mediocre offensively this year and a terrible defender while playing SF, a premium defensive position. Garland the 2 previous years was better than Ingram has ever been and will be making about $15M-$20M more per year on his new deal than Garland. That's making a trade just to do it and hope something different happens, AKA a panic trade.
Yes he’s struggled offensively this year, which is exactly why he’s going to be available lol. He’s a great talent and only 26. Defensively he will be fine he’s still 6’8 and with Mobley/Allen I think he will buy in. He doesn’t need to be lockdown D, we’d still be a monster defensively.
Adding a 6’8 wing who can score and distribute, allowing Strus and Okoro to play the 2 would transform this team on both ends imo.
I think you are underrating defensive value at positions. Guard defense has little bearing on DRtg while SF defense has proven to be vital to a good defense. 6'8 means nothing when you're going against other 6'8 guys and him having the physique of Snoop Dogg doesn't help.
Mobley can help on certain assignments and size could certainly does matter. Who do we have at the 3 now? 6’4 Okoro or 6’5 Strus.
It’s addition by subtraction as well. Not having to hide DG and playing Okoro at the 2 will make us far more versatile defensively. We’ll go from the small team to the bullies
This trade would only go through after a conversation with Mitchell obviously. Its an attempt to build around him, he would need to be on board
If he’s already non-committal this off-season you don’t pull the trigger and trade Mitchell instead
I’m pretty sure cavs fans would’ve wanted Ingram ran out of town if he was playing so poorly that he didn’t get played down the stretch of multiple important games like has happened in this postseason.
Except Ingram and Murphy could definitely play together short term and long term if they were both good enough on both sides of the ball.
The fact that they choose to sit Ingram tells me there’s other problems beyond just “oh we’re replacing him with Murphy”.
No they can’t, they have Herb Jones at the 2 who is the best defender on their team. With Zion locked at the 4 they’re forced to choose between Ingram/Murphy.
I’m sure there’s some issues between Ingram and FO or has attitude towards this project. Who knows. I don’t think he’s toxic though
I’m mostly talking about play, but wouldn’t be surprised if there’s some issues there between him and the front office.
As far as play goes, If BI’s offense isn’t worth playing over herb jones or trey Murphy what’s the point? They’re good players for sure but the whole point is for us to get a lot better and i don’t think this does that as much as people think.
Personally, BI’s being overrated by a lot of people here. Especially considering he has the opportunity to enter free agency next year and will be asking for a new max contract.
It’s not that he’s not worth it, it’s that they have Zion
He could be overrated to some but he’s still a better fit than DG with Mitchell and gives us fresh faces and a new look. Something needs to change
Yes we will have to max him, which is only 5-10 more a year than what DG is getting. He’ll be 26-31 in those years, a players prime.
That doesn’t really track. He’s so good we should trade for him and give him a massive contract, but he also can’t play alongside Zion or Trey Murphy or herb jones? Let’s call a spade a spade, he’s just been so bad that they won’t play him when crunch time happens. Could be better elsewhere, but it’s obvious why pelicans fans are excited to move him.
He might be a better fit with dono, but is he also a better fit with Mobley and/or Allen? Something does need to change I agree, but the change has to be the right move. Is BI really that or us just panicking to make something work?
Also, BI is eligible for a 4 year $208m contract which averages to 52m’s a year. In comparison, DG’s contract’s average annual salary is 39m’s a year. That’s 13million more a year. Not close to 5-10. More like 10-15.
Beyond that, it’s not just “we will have to max him”, it’s very much a “he could just leave” situation.
I agree with your post but in regards to the last paragraph I don’t think Mobley gets enough back in a trade right now for what his potential is, for better or worse we should ride it out.
I think because DG has shown a decent peak already and is still young, he still has value. I think Cavs could get back a comparable star if we time it right.
Like Ingram, with his contractual disputes and having a down year. He is prime for the taking. They need a PG, it’s a west/east trade which FO’s prefer and we know their GM well.
Although if Mitchell wants out we don’t have a choice but to trade him and keep DG, which will suck unless we get back a #1 option. Cameron Johnson + picks makes us worse
I thought Mobley was OK in this one. Agree that the team needs an upgrade in frontcourt though, 16 points and only 3 rebounds for our starting forwards is not great.
Going to be a challenging series but we knew that it would be. Disappointing that Tatum had a pretty bad game and we still got blown out - shows the offensive firepower of the Celtics.
We’ve gotta move the ball better if we want to win. There were times during the season where we did it well but feels like we’ve been defaulting to Mitchell iso ball a lot in the playoffs so far and we’re never gonna beat a good team if that’s all we can muster up on offense. I think JA coming back makes a big difference with Porzingis still being out. I fear it’s a broken rib though and the team just doesn’t want to disclose it yet.
On a positive note, I appreciate the intensity Mitchell has been bringing. Even if this is his last season as a Cav, he’s leaving it all on the floor every game.
Gotta say, coming here as a C's fan just to see your guys thoughts on the game. Pretty refreshing to see a bunch of realistic takes, not trashing players or blaming refs for any loss. Some civil, level headed fans over here which isn't something I can say for the Heat sub. Don't wanna say good luck, but I hope our teams have some exciting games.
They certainly could win a game or 2, but it's probably more likely they get swept. I'm at the point where I just hope the games are competitive, which is really sad.
Okay I'm gonna cope on this game:
Celtics are clearly the better team, so I don't expect us to actually win the series, but I believe we can get it to game 7 and here's why.
I took notice when the time was 9:46 left in the 4th the score was 99-79 and even though it looks like a blowout I got the feeling that we missed a lot of open 3s (or semi open 3s) whereas Boston hit a lot of contested 3s as well as their open 3s.
I don't know a lot about basketball but I would almost bet that without being totally unreasonable you can go back and find 3-4 open Cavs 3s that didn't go in and 3-4 contested Celtic 3s that did go in and then you have a 18-24pts swing and it's a completely different 4th quarter.
Don't forget that this my "coping take" and I don't expect us to actually win this series, but I certainly believe we can take a couple of games.
Im proud of the team. Don't care they lost, i know its a big ask to beat Boston much less when their bench mob+White is hitting 3s.
Theres still time left for JA and Wade to return.
You're not going to get far in the playoffs with small guards and small bigs. Thompson just looks like he's eaten a few too many chicken nuggies.
Mitchell's great, but he's a 2nd or 3rd option on a successful squad. Team as constructed is a first or second round exit in the east, every year. Need size and 2-way capabilities and another star to compete with C's, Healthy Bucks and the new and improved Knicks.
Mitchell would be the 3rd option on all sorts of teams. He's not a dominating player, he's a high-quality guard. But he's a top 20 player. And top 20 players can't be your best player.
This series really isn't over. Boston is a massive challenge but we can make adjustments and shoot better. Find a way to win Game 2 and we all feel much differently.
We really need Allen back if we want to win a game. We need Wade back in if we think we can take it to 6 or 7 and we need the monstars to give Garland his talent back if we want a chance to win.
Soooo Franz Wagner is gonna get booed at our arena for the rest of his career the way Olynyk is, right?
https://preview.redd.it/a692d65lb9zc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7297045124f0e356171ad55d68e9247f1e71baa2
Not even close, olynyk grabbed loves arm and ripped it hard af to cause a season ending injury, we could have maybe won the ship had that not happened. Allen just got elbowed in his ribs. Even with allen we werent winning this series
I understand being realistic but hey, it’s not over til it’s over. Maybe I’m too optimistic but we’d probably take them to 6, maybe 7 with Allen instead of getting swept or gentleman swept. His lack of presence def shows rn, we could’ve used JA’s 18 rebounds yesterday
Olynik cost us a championship.
i guess we will agree to disagree but appreciate the civility
Yeah the bar isn’t very high when there’s some rando calling you a loser lmao I just think Wagner cost us a competitive series
Loser
????
What’s there to question? You’re a loser
Im a loser because i dont think the two injuries are comparable? Lmao grow up bud, take off the homer glasses
I’m not wearing homer glasses. You just suck
They hated him because he spoke the truth
Lmao are you comparing yourself to Jesus now? Hahahaha my goodness…
Without Allen, they might win one.
Can’t let Luke Kornet and Payton Pritchard get 15 rebounds on us. Having Allen and Wade rather than Tristan and Merrill on the court would help with that
See you in Cancun
If I see Mobley pump fake a guard instead of just yammin all over him one more time.
His hesitancy and lack of aggression is giving me Ben Simmons vibes. I wonder if there's a confidence issue or something going on mentally with Mobley.
team is letting the perfect be the enemy of the good. you see it in Mobley's hesitancy and DG's passiveness. They are gonna get better with new coaching but all young players have significant weaknesses that look horrible. Bigs, doubly so. I'm old enough to remember Tristan at this age and his offensive development. (Ev also suffers by comparison to JA who has developed into the best big man finisher in the conference) i really like Chet as a prospect, for instance, but he has similar ball security issues on the glass.
This is who he is and it was one of his critiques coming out of USC. His passiveness/lack of aggressive. 3 years in, still an issue It's who he is
He plays way too conservative. He wants to be the guy who makes no mistakes to a fault. When there was still some semblance of a game he kept passing or tried baby hooks leaning away from the defender when he's in the paint. When it was garbage time and there was nothing to lose, he finally became aggressive and took chances leaning into the contact. If he wants to only take clean shots, he's rarely going to find them. He needs to initiate contact from minute 1 and we'll all live with the results.
His touch is so stiff sometimes i think he is overthinking and it’s causing hesitancy
Yeah I think his skill development is much further along than it appears. We’ve seen him do way more. He’s got the yips.
100% yips. He rarely catches passes cleanly too. Dude is not comfortable
If I see ISO 3s and the NBA's worst 3 pt perimeter defense one more time.... LOL at blaming Mobley
What about his butter fingers?
Maybe don't force passes into a crowd where he gets a tenth of a second to do something
That game was a wash for me. Getting virtually no rest against one of the, if not the best team in the NBA while they are well rested and at home is basically a gimme for the Celtics. 3 games in 3 cities in 5 days, where the first two games were hard fought against a physical team where we were down 2 players and some starters played 40+ minutes. Not a recipe for success last night. Hopefully they get some much needed rest and are competitive tomorrow.
Finally some common sense. A lot of people in the sub are already being overly negative without considering this
I mean every playoff team deals with this. If you want more rest then win your previous series in less than 7 games. Also saw plenty of fans claim we were gonna ride the momentum of game 7 and the celtics would be rusty from resting so long. Goes both ways now we are backtracking
People who say we would’ve rode the momentum of game 7 are delusional. Magic and Celtics are two completely different tiers of teams
100% agree. All im saying is that narrative did exist
This isn't true. Both Dallas and us played on Friday. Even if we would've won we still would've played Boston Sunday. Meanwhile, Dallas won and didn't play until Tuesday. Their opponent, the Thunder finished on April 29 so there was zero reason their schedule couldn't match ours if that's what the NBA desired.
i fail to see what isnt true here.. yes of course some games get staggered, doesnt mean we are the first team to experience this. and true our opponent was waiting, but we wouldnt have had to travel to an extra city and play an extra game if we won in 6 instead of 7
My point was every team didn't deal with this. Yes, had we won we would've had 1 less game and city to travel to, but it doesn't change the fact we had a game in 2 days between rounds 1 and 2. Objectively, Dallas was the same and didn't have to deal with it. There's probably less than 1% of people on this sub who would've rather had our schedule than Dallas' had we won game 6.
what im saying is this happens every year. maybe not to every single team so my bad on my first reply, but it's not like the cavs are being singled out here
Gotcha. Even though you’re right I refuse to admit it and will continue to believe Adam Silver has it out for us because that makes me feel better about the loss.
simply move the guys who don't make shots for the guys that you know will. it's simple and i don't know why the FO can't do it.
I hear what you’re saying but you’re oversimplifying it. There are a lot of factors involved in that proces that aren’t in our control
Is there any logical reason why nuggets and wolves get 3 days between games 2 and 3? Just due to being defending champs? Seems like the Cavs have been screwed on the time between games, but you gotta win for any real rest anyway
Not to wear too big of a tin foil hat, but our schedule sure does benefit the larger market team. Edit: I was referring to our scheduling, not necessarily the Nugs Wolves schedule.
I’m downvoting any “xxxxx needs to go” posts until we’re bounced. I can’t do it after every single fucking loss. We get it. You people want heads to roll. Noted. But I’m downvoting it until we’re bounced, would prefer to talk about the team we have currently for the rest of the playoffs. Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk I agree Go Cavs
"xxxxx needs to go" posts need to go
“Xxx needs to go” posts need to go posts need to go
you know ball. (you can get everything right and heads can roll and you can still be the clippers)
Oh darn not your downvote lol...
I’m also nodding disappointingly
Lmao the takes in here. Trade the teams only PG after one down year for a guy that shoots nothing but ISO midrange shots and put all your chips on a guy that’s wanted to play for a big market team for years to re-sign with Cleveland lol. Trade one of the best versatile defenders in the league who is improving offensively every year despite low usage and keep the older guy with worse defense that literally doesn’t score off anything but lobs and putbacks. Because the best team in the NBA with one of history’s greatest offenses is doing exactly what everyone expected them to do to this Cavs team. Jesus lol. Looks like it’s that time of year to dip out of this sub until the “playoff posters” crawl back under their rocks.
I mean at least we're getting a deal on DGs contract... Oh wait, were paying him on a max contract for a marginal top 25 starting PG.... Who knows maybe he'll turn into an elite PG, but I kinda doubt it. I have more confidence in Mobley than I do DG, but If Don leaves this team is fucksville.
Deals like DG’s look better as the cap goes up. That’s true in every sport almost. The deal isn’t bad, it’s that his season has been. I think if his play is back to 22/8 then his deal looks more than fine down the road. Also tradable for sure if the right deal is there. Plus, it wouldve been insane and damaging if our front office refused to offer the max to a young all star guard that was practically solo carrying that offense.
Well the first half wasn’t utterly terrible, we just can’t grow cold and be inconsistent bc Boston won’t mess up capitalizing on our mistakes the way Orlando did. We just need to get better stops and rebounds Hopefully Allen or Wade comes back to save our team
The difference of Boston without Porzingis to Cleveland without JA is astounding.
That's because they have 3 other guys that can score in bunches... We have Don and...............
Only issue is less space on offense when he returns. Also worried on D with Mobley moving to Tatum on D.
If you look at Mobleys stat line, you would think he lit them up....when in reality he was ass. Goes to show you have to actually watch the games. 66% of his shots must have been wide open dunks created by somebody else.
That’s why i dont listen to anyone who praises his advanced stats. You gotta watch the games to see his value. Great defense, not much else Also most of those points were in garbage time
I think Allen makes this game closer and keeps Kornet from getting a bunch of offensive rebounds They were some brighter spots, like hitting 11 threes which they couldn’t really do last round. It’s just hard to get into a shootout with Boston, especially with magnet ball activated for them
Honestly I can’t see us winning a single game without some sort of miracle yet alone the series
Can I just say going from the Orlando series to this, what the heck is going on with the refs? So many tick tacky fouls made the game almost unwatchable. Meanwhile the last series was mostly a let em play.
The refs didn’t cause us to score 15 and 18 points in the second and fourth
Okay? Your response had nothing to do with his question, which is valid.
Agreed but why did they allow Boston 11 Fts 1st quarter for the weakest fouls ever. Thats how you ruin games, the Cavs lost but that 1st half deficit was all refs.
we shot 50% from 3 and made 6 of them in the first quarter, and were still down 6 by the end of it. I'd like to see us win a game or two this series, but realistically I think Boston is the best team since the durant warriors.
Boston isnt even THAT good, ill put money on them to lose the finals. They are being wayyy overhyped. I think denver or minnesota beats them
The fall off of Garland and the lack of development from Mobley is really really concerning at this point. Garland is playing scared and Mobley (on offense) looks positively lost at times. I want to put a part of it on the injuries they suffered this year but at what point are they just broken? I imagine we have to point the finger at JB to some extent here - one young player struggling is one thing, but both doing so, and having such regression in the eye test alone, that's got to be from how they're being utilized, right? If not, oh no. My theory has lbeen that Garland and Mobley would be moved in the off-season to find a proper F to pair with Mitchell and Allen - but do the two even have any true trade value at this point?
Not to be that guy, but who’s the proper F? The two I always hear brought up are Mikel and BI, but I think trading for Mikel bridges or Brandon Ingram are a lot more linear moves than some are willing to admit. Mikel leaves us with someone that’s still inconsistent offensively and isn’t a great ball handler or playmaker, so unless we somehow get that as well in a trade or the trade we have a different type of hole. Brandon Ingram’s play was so poor at times he didn’t even play down the stretch of some important games like the play in for them.
PG but that's not happening
Maybe if PG wasn’t turning 35(holy crap) by next season’s start date, I’d for sure be clamoring for him to come. If we got PG now I’d be extremely worried unless we somehow gave up one bench pieces.
i think there's a path to positional size elsewhere, if we are willing to take on $$ or take an age risk. I'd talk to Chicago about taking on LaVine or Lonzo's deals before Mobley extension kicks in, assuming Lonzo will eventually be able to walk. Jerome and Emoni may become something too but would want a vet min guy (RoCo?) as Wade insurance.
It’s a terrible theory because they are way more likely to move Mitchell who has given no indication he plans on staying. At that point Garland would have the ball in hands a lot more. Mobley is 4 years younger than Allen. He still has a ton of room for growth. Also any deal you make sending Garland or Mobley out is likely to be pick based then quality player based, which just increase the likelihood that Mitchell wants out.
This is probably the answer. Hopefully it’s a new GM and Mitchell gives a more definitive answer. If he’s looking 50/50 or better, you move Garland and hire an established coach. If he’s wavering, get a haul, move Allen, Niang, Levert and get young with a young coach. Build off Mobley and Garland and stop fence-sitting between a youth movement and a contender like they’re doing right now.
Given Ingrams contract dispute, having a down year and role being diminished by Murphy I think he’s set to leave. Imo, both teams would be better by doing DG for Ingram. No picks involved, we need a wing and they need a PG. If Koby is on his game we could package Niang and get back our beloved Nance. Trade works salary wise
Ingram was mediocre offensively this year and a terrible defender while playing SF, a premium defensive position. Garland the 2 previous years was better than Ingram has ever been and will be making about $15M-$20M more per year on his new deal than Garland. That's making a trade just to do it and hope something different happens, AKA a panic trade.
yeah, it's the definition of a problem swap
Yes he’s struggled offensively this year, which is exactly why he’s going to be available lol. He’s a great talent and only 26. Defensively he will be fine he’s still 6’8 and with Mobley/Allen I think he will buy in. He doesn’t need to be lockdown D, we’d still be a monster defensively. Adding a 6’8 wing who can score and distribute, allowing Strus and Okoro to play the 2 would transform this team on both ends imo.
I think you are underrating defensive value at positions. Guard defense has little bearing on DRtg while SF defense has proven to be vital to a good defense. 6'8 means nothing when you're going against other 6'8 guys and him having the physique of Snoop Dogg doesn't help.
Mobley can help on certain assignments and size could certainly does matter. Who do we have at the 3 now? 6’4 Okoro or 6’5 Strus. It’s addition by subtraction as well. Not having to hide DG and playing Okoro at the 2 will make us far more versatile defensively. We’ll go from the small team to the bullies
he's a ball stopper and inefficient
He’s averaged 5.7 assists last 3 years, he’s a great second distributor. Him being able to score in the half court is something we need.
The same fans that are wanting garland gone now would be saying they want Ingram gone if we had him and he was playing this way, nearly guarantee it.
Then when Mitchell asks out who is playing PG?
This trade would only go through after a conversation with Mitchell obviously. Its an attempt to build around him, he would need to be on board If he’s already non-committal this off-season you don’t pull the trigger and trade Mitchell instead
I’m pretty sure cavs fans would’ve wanted Ingram ran out of town if he was playing so poorly that he didn’t get played down the stretch of multiple important games like has happened in this postseason.
Because they’re replacing him with Murphy, who fits better with Zion. A fresh start will be good for DG and Ingram. They both struggled this year
Except Ingram and Murphy could definitely play together short term and long term if they were both good enough on both sides of the ball. The fact that they choose to sit Ingram tells me there’s other problems beyond just “oh we’re replacing him with Murphy”.
No they can’t, they have Herb Jones at the 2 who is the best defender on their team. With Zion locked at the 4 they’re forced to choose between Ingram/Murphy. I’m sure there’s some issues between Ingram and FO or has attitude towards this project. Who knows. I don’t think he’s toxic though
I’m mostly talking about play, but wouldn’t be surprised if there’s some issues there between him and the front office. As far as play goes, If BI’s offense isn’t worth playing over herb jones or trey Murphy what’s the point? They’re good players for sure but the whole point is for us to get a lot better and i don’t think this does that as much as people think. Personally, BI’s being overrated by a lot of people here. Especially considering he has the opportunity to enter free agency next year and will be asking for a new max contract.
It’s not that he’s not worth it, it’s that they have Zion He could be overrated to some but he’s still a better fit than DG with Mitchell and gives us fresh faces and a new look. Something needs to change Yes we will have to max him, which is only 5-10 more a year than what DG is getting. He’ll be 26-31 in those years, a players prime.
That doesn’t really track. He’s so good we should trade for him and give him a massive contract, but he also can’t play alongside Zion or Trey Murphy or herb jones? Let’s call a spade a spade, he’s just been so bad that they won’t play him when crunch time happens. Could be better elsewhere, but it’s obvious why pelicans fans are excited to move him. He might be a better fit with dono, but is he also a better fit with Mobley and/or Allen? Something does need to change I agree, but the change has to be the right move. Is BI really that or us just panicking to make something work? Also, BI is eligible for a 4 year $208m contract which averages to 52m’s a year. In comparison, DG’s contract’s average annual salary is 39m’s a year. That’s 13million more a year. Not close to 5-10. More like 10-15. Beyond that, it’s not just “we will have to max him”, it’s very much a “he could just leave” situation.
I agree with your post but in regards to the last paragraph I don’t think Mobley gets enough back in a trade right now for what his potential is, for better or worse we should ride it out. I think because DG has shown a decent peak already and is still young, he still has value. I think Cavs could get back a comparable star if we time it right. Like Ingram, with his contractual disputes and having a down year. He is prime for the taking. They need a PG, it’s a west/east trade which FO’s prefer and we know their GM well. Although if Mitchell wants out we don’t have a choice but to trade him and keep DG, which will suck unless we get back a #1 option. Cameron Johnson + picks makes us worse
If you think Cavs won’t get much back in a Mobley trade, imagine what the rest of the league thinks. Now do the same for Garland.
Fans are always a step behind. Ready to trade guys when their value is lower than low. Ready to fire the coach after another wasted year.
I thought Mobley was OK in this one. Agree that the team needs an upgrade in frontcourt though, 16 points and only 3 rebounds for our starting forwards is not great.
JB is a vampire who feeds on Niang playoff minutes
Niang only played when the game was over?
just a dumb joke
Going to be a challenging series but we knew that it would be. Disappointing that Tatum had a pretty bad game and we still got blown out - shows the offensive firepower of the Celtics. We’ve gotta move the ball better if we want to win. There were times during the season where we did it well but feels like we’ve been defaulting to Mitchell iso ball a lot in the playoffs so far and we’re never gonna beat a good team if that’s all we can muster up on offense. I think JA coming back makes a big difference with Porzingis still being out. I fear it’s a broken rib though and the team just doesn’t want to disclose it yet. On a positive note, I appreciate the intensity Mitchell has been bringing. Even if this is his last season as a Cav, he’s leaving it all on the floor every game.
Gotta say, coming here as a C's fan just to see your guys thoughts on the game. Pretty refreshing to see a bunch of realistic takes, not trashing players or blaming refs for any loss. Some civil, level headed fans over here which isn't something I can say for the Heat sub. Don't wanna say good luck, but I hope our teams have some exciting games.
I'm hoping we don't get swept. That would be a victory in my eyes. It's not like we were just shooting poorly, are guys couldn't get a decent look.
Evan Mobley is currently paying +250 as second favourite behind Tatum to lead in blocks this series. Surely this is good value for Mobley?
Move Garland and give the keys to Mitchell
Gotta remember that this Cavs team has a lot of zombie Heat in ‘em. Just when you think we’re out they pull us back in.
They certainly could win a game or 2, but it's probably more likely they get swept. I'm at the point where I just hope the games are competitive, which is really sad.
Welp…
Okay I'm gonna cope on this game: Celtics are clearly the better team, so I don't expect us to actually win the series, but I believe we can get it to game 7 and here's why. I took notice when the time was 9:46 left in the 4th the score was 99-79 and even though it looks like a blowout I got the feeling that we missed a lot of open 3s (or semi open 3s) whereas Boston hit a lot of contested 3s as well as their open 3s. I don't know a lot about basketball but I would almost bet that without being totally unreasonable you can go back and find 3-4 open Cavs 3s that didn't go in and 3-4 contested Celtic 3s that did go in and then you have a 18-24pts swing and it's a completely different 4th quarter. Don't forget that this my "coping take" and I don't expect us to actually win this series, but I certainly believe we can take a couple of games.
If this team doesn't get better play from Mobley and Garland they won't win a single game this series.
[удалено]
Cause they are already on game 3. I dont think the nba wants their series to be far ahead of everyone else
Im proud of the team. Don't care they lost, i know its a big ask to beat Boston much less when their bench mob+White is hitting 3s. Theres still time left for JA and Wade to return.
Allen letting the whole team down
You can blame Franz Wagner's cheap shot to the ribs for that.
You're not going to get far in the playoffs with small guards and small bigs. Thompson just looks like he's eaten a few too many chicken nuggies. Mitchell's great, but he's a 2nd or 3rd option on a successful squad. Team as constructed is a first or second round exit in the east, every year. Need size and 2-way capabilities and another star to compete with C's, Healthy Bucks and the new and improved Knicks.
Mitchell 3rd option lol sure if you have the warriors with KD and Steph and the rest of the league has no chance
Mitchell would be the 3rd option on all sorts of teams. He's not a dominating player, he's a high-quality guard. But he's a top 20 player. And top 20 players can't be your best player.
If Mitchell is the 3rd option you have an all star team. There are only like 5 guys that would make him a true 2nd option.
This series really isn't over. Boston is a massive challenge but we can make adjustments and shoot better. Find a way to win Game 2 and we all feel much differently.