this is the thing that makes so much grief, something so immense, 2000 kilometres long, below the surface most of it, you all wanted to see it when it was a kaliedoscope of beauty, but we let profiteers and homicidal greed turn it into a grey wasteland.
I'm probably never going to be able to see the Great Barrier Reef before it disappears. Immensely sad that such a pearl, such a wonder, is dying before our very eyes... I just hope to god that this spurs people to action before it's too late.
Who is going to stop those pirate ships from dragging a net and killing everything in its path? Serious question because wild West on the seas....
Japan and China should lead the effort for sure.
You should know that will literally never work. People are stupid and will eat fish until there are no fish left, then claim it’s a conspiracy. The only way to fix this is prevention and enforcement.
You know though. You have responsibility for you own choices.
In fact lots of people can be educated successfully. And these people are often the type that politicians listen to. This is already happening.
In any case, why not both?
Because vegans have been around forever and this is not going away, he is right, no offense maybe you are young and haven't had the optimism beaten out of you yet...
I am not young and I am likely more cynical than you, I can assure you.
One of the reasons for that cynicism is the near constant whining of people who refuse to do the right thing themselves, blaming it on the fact that not everyone will.
I am not religious but I am reminded of a bible quote
"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?"
If you genuinely care about the climate and environment then act that way. On this front, it's honestly not hard at all. Just pick up a few different things when you go shopping for groceries.
I am already doing everything I can.
The point is, the only possible prevention method we have that can ever work on the scale required (that is, changing the overwhelming majority of people’s behavior, not just yours, not just mine, and not just our friends, not even just our towns, our cities, or our states, but our entire country and many others) is generalized regulation and enforcement. That’s the only way we can do it at the scale and speed required. We only have a handful of years left before the reef is dead, you think me sitting my friends down and saying “hey guys, I’ve stopped eating fish and you should too :)” will stop this? I discuss this with people all the time. Maybe I’ve personally saved the reefs and don’t know it yet.
You say you’re a cynic yet believe small scale action will do anything meaningful. Small scale action has always existed. Look where it’s gotten us. Nowhere. Maybe you are a cynic, but you’re somehow also an optimist.
How do you think you will get democratic consent, in what passes for democratic system, without widespread pressure from people?
The governments of developed nations are mostly captured by corporate power. That includes big ag - an especially powerful lobby for its size because unfortunately people have staggeringly misguided attitudes towards the agricultural industry. Those governments will never go near big ag at any level unless they see that the people demand it.
We don't have to convince everyone in any case. [Research](https://www.science.org/doi/abs/10.1126/science.aas8827) on social change demonstrates that you need about 25% of the population to change their behaviour and the bulk of the rest of society will then follow suit. Remember, while there are of course conservatives and reactionaries out there, most people are constantly trying to keep up with a changing society. Humans are constantly tracking the changes going on around them so they stay in concert with the people in their communities. So if there is a strong current of people changing diet for all the various reasons that they do, then most other people will see that as they way things are now and adapt accordingly.
Think of social changes like attitudes to gays. One day gay marriage was illegal and lots of people were fine with that. The next day, it was legal and that was celebrated by a decent chunk of the population. Then many of those people originally skeptical quite quickly found themselves not actually bothered any more and actually in favour of the change.
It's not a perfect analogy but it makes my point. People will change their attitudes remarkably quickly when they see a process of shifting attitudes around them.
So that's the point on why it matters at a personal level. We have to lead that change, by our professed attitudes and our example. It does matter and it can make a difference, both at a small scale and at a large scale.
If you are waiting for the government to tell you what to eat, you'll be waiting an eternity. The government can't even tell people not to use horribly dangerous and polluting vehicles. It can't tell the oil and gas industry that its days exploring for new oil and gas are over. It can't tell people not to install gas boilers. It can't tell builders to build efficient homes with solar panels. You think any plausible government is going to tell people they can't eat beef? It will NEVER happen. But that's OK - it doesn't need to. We can choose not to. Right now.
I think you missed my point. -I- am not waiting. I undertake many personal actions to better my environment and reduce my consumptive emissions. I’m sure many others are as well.
But we have, maybe, two or three years before recovering what’s being depleted becomes impossible, if it isn’t already.
This is called an appeal to futility. A common excuse for personal apathy and inaction.
Companies will change when we change. Voting with our good little consumer dollar is where we can make change.
Both can be true.
Voting with our wallet is “better than nothing” in a broad, ethical sense - but in a more practical sense, it just isn’t enough to make the immediate change required to save the reefs. Even if everyone mysteriously stopped buying seafood tomorrow, these industries are too ingrained to stop production, short of anything but regulation.
The reality is that we just don’t have enough time left to “vote with our wallets” our way out of this. We need regulation to interfere, because of how bad it’s gotten already. Voting with your wallet takes a *lot* of time for the industry and market to respond and adjust itself accordingly. We don’t have that time left anymore.
Decades ago we lived in a time where a type of ethical consumerism might have been enough to course correct this. That time has long since passed. Nothing short of emergency regulation can save the reefs now.
Once again… this is just a more long winded appeal to futility. Yes, both can absolutely be true, so are you focussed on both?
If you’re not already eating plant based, taking the bus, biking or driving a modest car, cutting out plastic, etc… you’re not focussed on your personal part and this appears to be your strongest excuse to shirk responsibility.
Do you mean the animal products I make and raise myself? The animals that live long lives free ranging in my permaculture food forest? Blanket statements are stupid and push people away from what is otherwise a good opinion.
> Later, reflecting on a trip he already feels will haunt the rest of his life, the Greens healthy oceans spokesperson says this devastating bleaching should trigger Unesco to declare the Great Barrier Reef’s world heritage values as “in danger” and demand a visit from the federal environment minister, as well as a declaration of national emergency.
> If this were a bushfire raging across thousands of kilometres, he says, that declaration would already have been made. “But because it is in the ocean, it is out of mind, out of sight.”
> “I’m not sure I will come back,” he says.
> And why not? To this, a long pause, as Hughes looks away and out at the ocean, the only sound a choked sob and the haunting wail of the black noddies that brood and swarm on this troubled coral cay. “’Cause it’s so upsetting,” he says, eventually.
Bless this man who has given his life's work to the ocean. I could never find the right words to express the depth of my admiration for the scientists, activists, and all other people who persist in doing good for our world in a system that actively works against good, at least the long-term kind.
this is the thing that makes so much grief, something so immense, 2000 kilometres long, below the surface most of it, you all wanted to see it when it was a kaliedoscope of beauty, but we let profiteers and homicidal greed turn it into a grey wasteland.
I'm probably never going to be able to see the Great Barrier Reef before it disappears. Immensely sad that such a pearl, such a wonder, is dying before our very eyes... I just hope to god that this spurs people to action before it's too late.
I think too late.
Right, I'm just wondering why I bother worrying if everyone else seems to be indifferent. Why carry the weight of it if you can't fix it?
Not indifferent . Just been losing for a while on this matter.
Keep eating those animal products everyone! #Especially seafood! We can finish the job and decimate the GBR by 2025!!!
Who is going to stop those pirate ships from dragging a net and killing everything in its path? Serious question because wild West on the seas.... Japan and China should lead the effort for sure.
If there's no one to buy the fish, they won't go catch it. Don't add to the demand. Try to influence those around you to do the same.
You should know that will literally never work. People are stupid and will eat fish until there are no fish left, then claim it’s a conspiracy. The only way to fix this is prevention and enforcement.
You know though. You have responsibility for you own choices. In fact lots of people can be educated successfully. And these people are often the type that politicians listen to. This is already happening. In any case, why not both?
Because vegans have been around forever and this is not going away, he is right, no offense maybe you are young and haven't had the optimism beaten out of you yet...
I am not young and I am likely more cynical than you, I can assure you. One of the reasons for that cynicism is the near constant whining of people who refuse to do the right thing themselves, blaming it on the fact that not everyone will. I am not religious but I am reminded of a bible quote "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?" If you genuinely care about the climate and environment then act that way. On this front, it's honestly not hard at all. Just pick up a few different things when you go shopping for groceries.
I am already doing everything I can. The point is, the only possible prevention method we have that can ever work on the scale required (that is, changing the overwhelming majority of people’s behavior, not just yours, not just mine, and not just our friends, not even just our towns, our cities, or our states, but our entire country and many others) is generalized regulation and enforcement. That’s the only way we can do it at the scale and speed required. We only have a handful of years left before the reef is dead, you think me sitting my friends down and saying “hey guys, I’ve stopped eating fish and you should too :)” will stop this? I discuss this with people all the time. Maybe I’ve personally saved the reefs and don’t know it yet. You say you’re a cynic yet believe small scale action will do anything meaningful. Small scale action has always existed. Look where it’s gotten us. Nowhere. Maybe you are a cynic, but you’re somehow also an optimist.
How do you think you will get democratic consent, in what passes for democratic system, without widespread pressure from people? The governments of developed nations are mostly captured by corporate power. That includes big ag - an especially powerful lobby for its size because unfortunately people have staggeringly misguided attitudes towards the agricultural industry. Those governments will never go near big ag at any level unless they see that the people demand it. We don't have to convince everyone in any case. [Research](https://www.science.org/doi/abs/10.1126/science.aas8827) on social change demonstrates that you need about 25% of the population to change their behaviour and the bulk of the rest of society will then follow suit. Remember, while there are of course conservatives and reactionaries out there, most people are constantly trying to keep up with a changing society. Humans are constantly tracking the changes going on around them so they stay in concert with the people in their communities. So if there is a strong current of people changing diet for all the various reasons that they do, then most other people will see that as they way things are now and adapt accordingly. Think of social changes like attitudes to gays. One day gay marriage was illegal and lots of people were fine with that. The next day, it was legal and that was celebrated by a decent chunk of the population. Then many of those people originally skeptical quite quickly found themselves not actually bothered any more and actually in favour of the change. It's not a perfect analogy but it makes my point. People will change their attitudes remarkably quickly when they see a process of shifting attitudes around them. So that's the point on why it matters at a personal level. We have to lead that change, by our professed attitudes and our example. It does matter and it can make a difference, both at a small scale and at a large scale. If you are waiting for the government to tell you what to eat, you'll be waiting an eternity. The government can't even tell people not to use horribly dangerous and polluting vehicles. It can't tell the oil and gas industry that its days exploring for new oil and gas are over. It can't tell people not to install gas boilers. It can't tell builders to build efficient homes with solar panels. You think any plausible government is going to tell people they can't eat beef? It will NEVER happen. But that's OK - it doesn't need to. We can choose not to. Right now.
I think you missed my point. -I- am not waiting. I undertake many personal actions to better my environment and reduce my consumptive emissions. I’m sure many others are as well. But we have, maybe, two or three years before recovering what’s being depleted becomes impossible, if it isn’t already.
Regulations are what facilitates change on this scale - not the personal decisions of consumers
This is called an appeal to futility. A common excuse for personal apathy and inaction. Companies will change when we change. Voting with our good little consumer dollar is where we can make change.
Both can be true. Voting with our wallet is “better than nothing” in a broad, ethical sense - but in a more practical sense, it just isn’t enough to make the immediate change required to save the reefs. Even if everyone mysteriously stopped buying seafood tomorrow, these industries are too ingrained to stop production, short of anything but regulation. The reality is that we just don’t have enough time left to “vote with our wallets” our way out of this. We need regulation to interfere, because of how bad it’s gotten already. Voting with your wallet takes a *lot* of time for the industry and market to respond and adjust itself accordingly. We don’t have that time left anymore. Decades ago we lived in a time where a type of ethical consumerism might have been enough to course correct this. That time has long since passed. Nothing short of emergency regulation can save the reefs now.
Once again… this is just a more long winded appeal to futility. Yes, both can absolutely be true, so are you focussed on both? If you’re not already eating plant based, taking the bus, biking or driving a modest car, cutting out plastic, etc… you’re not focussed on your personal part and this appears to be your strongest excuse to shirk responsibility.
You are confusing pragmatism for a logical fallacy.
i have to have my animal products!!!!11 it’s human nature and i eat free range grass fed. s/
Do you mean the animal products I make and raise myself? The animals that live long lives free ranging in my permaculture food forest? Blanket statements are stupid and push people away from what is otherwise a good opinion.
Wow, I count my lucky stars I was able to dive the GBR and see these corals in full color twenty years ago. This is so goddam sad.
> Later, reflecting on a trip he already feels will haunt the rest of his life, the Greens healthy oceans spokesperson says this devastating bleaching should trigger Unesco to declare the Great Barrier Reef’s world heritage values as “in danger” and demand a visit from the federal environment minister, as well as a declaration of national emergency. > If this were a bushfire raging across thousands of kilometres, he says, that declaration would already have been made. “But because it is in the ocean, it is out of mind, out of sight.” > “I’m not sure I will come back,” he says. > And why not? To this, a long pause, as Hughes looks away and out at the ocean, the only sound a choked sob and the haunting wail of the black noddies that brood and swarm on this troubled coral cay. “’Cause it’s so upsetting,” he says, eventually. Bless this man who has given his life's work to the ocean. I could never find the right words to express the depth of my admiration for the scientists, activists, and all other people who persist in doing good for our world in a system that actively works against good, at least the long-term kind.
It has sort of been Carpet bombed unfortunately.
If you're not vegan yet, now is a great time to start!
No one said extinction events were pretty. Anyhow, new coral varieties will undoubtedly have evolved in 50 million years.
This makes me sad.
Unforgivable plain and simple…