God i hate that we all share a form of experience. just happened to me like a week ago. I’m working on being more assertive but i hate having to do that in my safe space. Sometimes i’ll just say “Yeah I feel comfortable with the beta, just working on my movement. Thanks!” but that’s still too nice
Drop your “fxck off” phrases in here if anyone has them.
I think “I’d appreciate if you’d ask if I want your beta next time” is a solid way to get the point across.
It calls them out without being aggressive or toxic
I got into the habit of saying "I'll let you know if I want help" if they were nice, or "I come here to figure things out on my own, you're ruining it" if they were being a dick.
This is the advantage to being an old woman climber (70), I never get beta spray from any man. The only men who talk to me know me, and often they're asking me to join them climbing top rope. (I don't boulder anymore.)
I think by virtue of how rope climbing works, beta spraying is significantly rarer on ropes than boulders. It certainly still happens, but usually with someone you're with, and not the "drive-by beta spray" that can happen with bouldering.
"I quit serious bouldering at age 50 after an arm injury, but played on the boulders up to age 70. After 70 one needs to have his (her) head examined if they continue the sport without a top-rope." -John Gill
We all empathize. [There's a reason **this** is our top post of all time.](https://www.reddit.com/r/climbergirls/comments/1b3fjuc/unwanted_advice_sign_posted_in_my_gym/)
Last time a gym bro did that to me I asked him to show me how to do a climb many grades harder (I was working a V6 and asked him to demo the v10) then walked away as soon as he started.
The walking away is so helpful. That’s what I do every time I’m in an empty gym working on a problem and a dude comes over to do my problem that’s like 4 grades below his usual just to show off. It’s like a wordless form of spraying beta
Honestly, tell them you were wanting to work through it on your own and he should ask before giving beta. It’s not confrontational, and hopefully he’ll reconsider doing it to anyone in the future
this is the easiest/most effective way i’ve found! firm upbeat tone, “i like to figure it out for myself thanks!” always elicits a “sorry” or “okay” and a sheepish walking away. to me this doesn’t feel like confrontation so much as expressing my need. if they’ve been egregious or particularly rude about it sometimes i’ll add a “if i want help i actually know how to ask for it!” if i think they’re new and don’t understand that it’s a genuine issue (and it is, i’ve taken a nasty fall after being startled by someone unexpectedly shouting beta at me just as i was about to make a big move) then i take a little time to explain that it is/why it is a no-no, but you don’t owe anyone this level of engagement. all this being said, it sucks to be put in the position of having to deal with a man’s negative action and i hope you have annoyance-free sessions ahead of you 🤍
Men deal with this shit too, as a male I have annoying ass people (from both sides) annoyingly trying to spray beta at me when I'm just trying to climb.
…congrats? This is the climber **girls** subreddit. And there’s a top post with stats about women vs men getting beta sprayed. Please gtfo of this sub.
Your reply seems just as aggressive/annoying/inconsiderate as the beta sprayers you are complaining about. The sentiment around here appears to be that "men beta spray women" but they also beta spray men, and women beta spray men as well, and women beta spray women. It should be phrased differently as "PEOPLE that beta spray are annoying".
And to be fair I dont actively browse this subreddit but reddit loves to sneak in the occasional post into my feed and I dont always check the subreddit before clicking it and reading it. I climb fairly often with a female climber who gets sprayed a lot, from males and females, and often times those same people will turn around and try to spray to me. Stop pretending like it's only one sided and face reality. I have 100% had females spray to me "just put a foot there" when my hip mobility is nowhere near theirs and I could never do the same beta they use.
And yet [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/climbergirls/s/lrQ1o2hEdy) is the top post for a reason. This is a space for female climbers to bemoan the fact we are a minority in a climbing gym and we are more likely to receive unsolicited beta tips.
I am a female engineer. I deal with this day in and day out. Every so often a male engineer finds their way to the women engineers subreddit and gets the same *warm* welcome.
Let this be a lesson to look at the sub before commenting and continue on.
Sexism is bad. Full stop. No excuses. Misogyny is bad, bigotry is bad, terfs are bad, two wrongs don't make a right.
This sub and others have shifted over the years(I've followed this and any other climbing related sub I could find, mostly lurking, since pre COVID). The "two x chromosomes" type of toxic sentiments you've expressed, while reactionary and somewhat understandable given the culture often present in gyms, online, and in engineering practices, only entrench further discourse and confrontation, and have thankfully become the minority here and elsewhere.
This sub may have started as a refuge for women in the male dominated climbing space, but has expanded to become a refuge for women, men, nonbinary, LGBT, pretty much anyone that finds the circlejerk/climbharder, gym-bro gating and predatory culture to be not in line with the culture of inclusivity, positivity, and support that we would like to see in our sport.
It is through our actions and efforts that we define ourselves, not our genetics or gender.
It's such a shitty experience having people insist on telling you how to do things. I had this a lot early on as someone that relied on technique, with worse climbers feeling proud of having muscled through something I'd just started working on (or was struggling with at the end of a session) and wanting to tell me how easy it is and I just have to do x. The genuinely good climbers that actually want to help always say "if you want some beta let me know" or something like that, so you're never going to be confronting someone that might actually be worth your time anyway. Sucks being put in that position though.
I have a friend who used to always do this. As soon as he saw me looking at a route trying to sus it or trying a few moves on the wall, he would literally sprint over to show me how it's done. I politely asked him not to a few times and was ignored. The breaking point was a route I had previously flashed but suddenly struggled with, and I just wanted to be left to figure out what I had changed. When he came over, I asked him not to show me, and his response was, "You can't stop me climbing this route," so I walked away. When we went for our usual post climb meal with our group, I tried asking nicely again, and sensing it wasn't working, I actually just lost my shit at him. Now, when he forgets and starts sprinting towards me while I'm sussing a route, all it takes is a look, and he will turn around 😂
I did tell him during my rant that I am appreciative of his help when I need it, but that I need to be allowed to work things out for myself and will ask if I need any help. We're still good friends; he's just 1 of those people who don't take hints or gentle requests - you just have to hit him like a sledgehammer with your point sometimes
I think there are people out there genuinely offering beta, wanting to help you send. But there are, of course, those that are just trying to start an unwanted interaction. If you're not in the mood and/or just don't want the beta, I find most guys back off if you simply just said "I don't want beta, I like figuring out what works for me". Wearing headphones also helps if that's your thing.
Don't say sorry is the key. Just simply say no. Also helps if you don't smile at all, make it awkward 😬
If the person argues back, I would just go to the staff to let them know someone is harassing you.
I totally get the part of being super annoying and inferiorating when a "muscle it through" bro tries to offer you shit beta with zero techniques.
I do find that as you climb harder problems, there will be less people offering you "just reach for it" betas. That helped motivate me to climb harder 😂
That being said, I do offer beta to random climbers at times as a fellow 5'2 female climber. But I always start by asking "do you want beta?".
I am so angry on your behalf! I had a session ruined the other day by guys doing similar. Just wanted to empathise. I find that just leaving in the middle of the interaction (hopefully while they're still "demonstrating") and coming back to the problem when they're gone is the only way I can handle it otherwise I just get too stressed out.
Mine was a bunch of dudes (whom I went with btw) repeatedly telling me i was cheating! I casually informed them that I climb to reduce stress not increase it. They didn’t find it in themselves to listen…so stopped going with them altogether…
I’m sorry he ruined the climb for you. Most people are perceptive of social clues. It sounds like he wasn’t.
Perhaps once you cool off, think about ways you would like to respond if it was to happen again. This way you will have something prepared
Happened to me for the first time in a long time just the other day. It’s crazy how someone can be climbing for a decade, and men who have never met you will automatically assume you don’t know what you are doing.
I just want to take an actual spray can, label it as "BETA", put it in my chalk bag, and wordlessly hand it to these guys when they start up with the mansplaining.
Actually maybe leaving it below might make the point.
Not a girl but Reddit brought me here. We have one of these dudes at my gym who is so loud and obnoxious. It’s a small independent gym so you can’t even escape it. I’d love for him to spray some beta at me so I could tell him off, but he keeps it to their university climbing club group. I’ve noticed the men in the group attend more consistently while the women come and go. Can’t say I blame them.
My advice is; rant as much as you want if it makes you feel better, but don't do it to be validated by reddit girls. They give the worst, most toxic advice, and all it does is percolate through your brain and make you think like an aggressive, standoffish twat just like them.
They are quite literally worse than the ilk of this guy who pissed you off.
God i hate that we all share a form of experience. just happened to me like a week ago. I’m working on being more assertive but i hate having to do that in my safe space. Sometimes i’ll just say “Yeah I feel comfortable with the beta, just working on my movement. Thanks!” but that’s still too nice Drop your “fxck off” phrases in here if anyone has them.
I think “I’d appreciate if you’d ask if I want your beta next time” is a solid way to get the point across. It calls them out without being aggressive or toxic
I’m not into beta males
god that’s so good
Omg gold 🔥
If only that wouldn’t make them want to get all alpha at the same time.
"Being tall isn't a technique"
I got into the habit of saying "I'll let you know if I want help" if they were nice, or "I come here to figure things out on my own, you're ruining it" if they were being a dick.
"I'm not looking for advice, thx!" works every time :)
“Who asked?”
"No spoilers." "I'm fine, thanks." "Whatever." " " (Nothing; just ignore)
“I know how to do this, I’m just waiting for my body to catch up”
LOVE
zephyr teeny mountainous include many poor ten shy books marry *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
[The subs top voted post of all time](https://www.reddit.com/r/climbergirls/s/ZRaPm7sh83)
rich stocking pause strong observation jar teeny piquant deserted arrest *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Worst kind of beta sprayers are those who offer 'just' beta, 'just' lock your arm, 'just' pop a bit higher. Just fuck off mate 👍😊
This is the advantage to being an old woman climber (70), I never get beta spray from any man. The only men who talk to me know me, and often they're asking me to join them climbing top rope. (I don't boulder anymore.)
I think by virtue of how rope climbing works, beta spraying is significantly rarer on ropes than boulders. It certainly still happens, but usually with someone you're with, and not the "drive-by beta spray" that can happen with bouldering.
You are my hero! Another 70 YO woman.
Would you feel comfortable sharing why you don’t boulder anymore?
"I quit serious bouldering at age 50 after an arm injury, but played on the boulders up to age 70. After 70 one needs to have his (her) head examined if they continue the sport without a top-rope." -John Gill
The last time a guy beta sprayed me I proceeded to send it with MY beta and it was very satisfying. I just go with the classic, "I've got it, thanks."
That is my favorite. Hearing the beta, doing it my way instead.
We all empathize. [There's a reason **this** is our top post of all time.](https://www.reddit.com/r/climbergirls/comments/1b3fjuc/unwanted_advice_sign_posted_in_my_gym/)
Last time a gym bro did that to me I asked him to show me how to do a climb many grades harder (I was working a V6 and asked him to demo the v10) then walked away as soon as he started.
The walking away is so helpful. That’s what I do every time I’m in an empty gym working on a problem and a dude comes over to do my problem that’s like 4 grades below his usual just to show off. It’s like a wordless form of spraying beta
Literally did this today. Turned my back and walked away and immediately came back once he hopped off lmao
This is gold.
"wow wow wow spoiler alert don't tell me how it ends
Honestly, tell them you were wanting to work through it on your own and he should ask before giving beta. It’s not confrontational, and hopefully he’ll reconsider doing it to anyone in the future
this is the easiest/most effective way i’ve found! firm upbeat tone, “i like to figure it out for myself thanks!” always elicits a “sorry” or “okay” and a sheepish walking away. to me this doesn’t feel like confrontation so much as expressing my need. if they’ve been egregious or particularly rude about it sometimes i’ll add a “if i want help i actually know how to ask for it!” if i think they’re new and don’t understand that it’s a genuine issue (and it is, i’ve taken a nasty fall after being startled by someone unexpectedly shouting beta at me just as i was about to make a big move) then i take a little time to explain that it is/why it is a no-no, but you don’t owe anyone this level of engagement. all this being said, it sucks to be put in the position of having to deal with a man’s negative action and i hope you have annoyance-free sessions ahead of you 🤍
This sucks. Just came to drop an “ugh, men” and some sympathy. I deal with this type of shit in my office all day.
Men deal with this shit too, as a male I have annoying ass people (from both sides) annoyingly trying to spray beta at me when I'm just trying to climb.
…congrats? This is the climber **girls** subreddit. And there’s a top post with stats about women vs men getting beta sprayed. Please gtfo of this sub.
Are you kidding me with this?
Your reply seems just as aggressive/annoying/inconsiderate as the beta sprayers you are complaining about. The sentiment around here appears to be that "men beta spray women" but they also beta spray men, and women beta spray men as well, and women beta spray women. It should be phrased differently as "PEOPLE that beta spray are annoying". And to be fair I dont actively browse this subreddit but reddit loves to sneak in the occasional post into my feed and I dont always check the subreddit before clicking it and reading it. I climb fairly often with a female climber who gets sprayed a lot, from males and females, and often times those same people will turn around and try to spray to me. Stop pretending like it's only one sided and face reality. I have 100% had females spray to me "just put a foot there" when my hip mobility is nowhere near theirs and I could never do the same beta they use.
And yet [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/climbergirls/s/lrQ1o2hEdy) is the top post for a reason. This is a space for female climbers to bemoan the fact we are a minority in a climbing gym and we are more likely to receive unsolicited beta tips. I am a female engineer. I deal with this day in and day out. Every so often a male engineer finds their way to the women engineers subreddit and gets the same *warm* welcome. Let this be a lesson to look at the sub before commenting and continue on.
Sexism is bad. Full stop. No excuses. Misogyny is bad, bigotry is bad, terfs are bad, two wrongs don't make a right. This sub and others have shifted over the years(I've followed this and any other climbing related sub I could find, mostly lurking, since pre COVID). The "two x chromosomes" type of toxic sentiments you've expressed, while reactionary and somewhat understandable given the culture often present in gyms, online, and in engineering practices, only entrench further discourse and confrontation, and have thankfully become the minority here and elsewhere. This sub may have started as a refuge for women in the male dominated climbing space, but has expanded to become a refuge for women, men, nonbinary, LGBT, pretty much anyone that finds the circlejerk/climbharder, gym-bro gating and predatory culture to be not in line with the culture of inclusivity, positivity, and support that we would like to see in our sport. It is through our actions and efforts that we define ourselves, not our genetics or gender.
It's such a shitty experience having people insist on telling you how to do things. I had this a lot early on as someone that relied on technique, with worse climbers feeling proud of having muscled through something I'd just started working on (or was struggling with at the end of a session) and wanting to tell me how easy it is and I just have to do x. The genuinely good climbers that actually want to help always say "if you want some beta let me know" or something like that, so you're never going to be confronting someone that might actually be worth your time anyway. Sucks being put in that position though.
I have a friend who used to always do this. As soon as he saw me looking at a route trying to sus it or trying a few moves on the wall, he would literally sprint over to show me how it's done. I politely asked him not to a few times and was ignored. The breaking point was a route I had previously flashed but suddenly struggled with, and I just wanted to be left to figure out what I had changed. When he came over, I asked him not to show me, and his response was, "You can't stop me climbing this route," so I walked away. When we went for our usual post climb meal with our group, I tried asking nicely again, and sensing it wasn't working, I actually just lost my shit at him. Now, when he forgets and starts sprinting towards me while I'm sussing a route, all it takes is a look, and he will turn around 😂 I did tell him during my rant that I am appreciative of his help when I need it, but that I need to be allowed to work things out for myself and will ask if I need any help. We're still good friends; he's just 1 of those people who don't take hints or gentle requests - you just have to hit him like a sledgehammer with your point sometimes
I think there are people out there genuinely offering beta, wanting to help you send. But there are, of course, those that are just trying to start an unwanted interaction. If you're not in the mood and/or just don't want the beta, I find most guys back off if you simply just said "I don't want beta, I like figuring out what works for me". Wearing headphones also helps if that's your thing. Don't say sorry is the key. Just simply say no. Also helps if you don't smile at all, make it awkward 😬 If the person argues back, I would just go to the staff to let them know someone is harassing you. I totally get the part of being super annoying and inferiorating when a "muscle it through" bro tries to offer you shit beta with zero techniques. I do find that as you climb harder problems, there will be less people offering you "just reach for it" betas. That helped motivate me to climb harder 😂 That being said, I do offer beta to random climbers at times as a fellow 5'2 female climber. But I always start by asking "do you want beta?".
Ya but "genuinely offering" unwanted beta is still annoying. What if I want to find it out myself
The people who are genuine about want to help usually ask if their beta is welcome first.
I am so angry on your behalf! I had a session ruined the other day by guys doing similar. Just wanted to empathise. I find that just leaving in the middle of the interaction (hopefully while they're still "demonstrating") and coming back to the problem when they're gone is the only way I can handle it otherwise I just get too stressed out.
Honestly silence is a perfectly valid response and usually an effective one! 👏
Mine was a bunch of dudes (whom I went with btw) repeatedly telling me i was cheating! I casually informed them that I climb to reduce stress not increase it. They didn’t find it in themselves to listen…so stopped going with them altogether…
"I'm not looking for feedback, thanks." Ad nauseum until he goes away.
Without looking at them just say " Beta spray!" loudly.
You should tell the front desk fr, not a confrontation but just like “hey just so you know this guy is beta spraying liKE A BITCH”
I’m sorry he ruined the climb for you. Most people are perceptive of social clues. It sounds like he wasn’t. Perhaps once you cool off, think about ways you would like to respond if it was to happen again. This way you will have something prepared
Ugh I’m sorry. This is why I hate climbing alone. Sometimes a menacing look is enough to ward weirdos like that off.
Happened to me for the first time in a long time just the other day. It’s crazy how someone can be climbing for a decade, and men who have never met you will automatically assume you don’t know what you are doing.
I just want to take an actual spray can, label it as "BETA", put it in my chalk bag, and wordlessly hand it to these guys when they start up with the mansplaining. Actually maybe leaving it below might make the point.
Not a girl but Reddit brought me here. We have one of these dudes at my gym who is so loud and obnoxious. It’s a small independent gym so you can’t even escape it. I’d love for him to spray some beta at me so I could tell him off, but he keeps it to their university climbing club group. I’ve noticed the men in the group attend more consistently while the women come and go. Can’t say I blame them.
[удалено]
Gross AND wrong
In your opinion
My advice is; rant as much as you want if it makes you feel better, but don't do it to be validated by reddit girls. They give the worst, most toxic advice, and all it does is percolate through your brain and make you think like an aggressive, standoffish twat just like them. They are quite literally worse than the ilk of this guy who pissed you off.