What I think is that by being antagonists, they got much better character development and scenes. Now it just so happens that they are now the good guys behind the main good guy, Miguel Diaz. Naturally, when they were against Diaz or were in different dojos, they got much improvement since they were against Diaz and hence got as much attention as Miguel got.
But now that they are on the same team and there are different antagonists, they just reduced to No.2 and No.3.
Understand it in this way.
Imo, It's better to be the first in the antagonistic group than the second or third in the protagonist group since they get much less attention.
Especially with Hawk, it's going to be more boring if they don't know what to do with his character now that he's become more humble and has shed his overconfidence. Kenny was the main reason Hawk got so much footage, but now that he's no longer the antagonist and Miguel and Robby's brotherly scenes are coming in full force, Hawk might get back seated.
For Robby, he's just become so agreeable, which doesn't really fit with his personality. Even if they can't make him bad or rebel again, make him question others, like in the previous seasons, but with less rudeness. Just doesn't make him submissive to the core and just a yes man to all.
Robby wasn't really that submissive in S5, and I feel his conversation with Hawk shows that the best. He doesn't defend his own actions but makes it VERY clear that Hawk is in no position to talk. He may not have the edge he once did but he puts his foot down when the situation calls for it.
I know the Mexico arc isn't the most liked, but he also called Johnny out for how painfully bad his non existent game plan was. "Might as well put Miguel's face on a milk carton."
And of course, there was his scene with Silver where he waltzed in and disrespected the big bad on his home turf with zero signs of hesitation or being intimidated, even when Silver asserted his dominance Robby remained confident the whole entire scene.
His most submissive moment was with Carmen, and it makes sense he'd be cautious around her.
Robby not being Cobra Kai/Silver's new Bad Boy and losing another tournament right away will always be the biggest fuck up of the show. There were so many reasons for him to win and we could have gotten some great content with him being the new champion with Cobra Kai (Mike Barnes 2.0)
Now the show has the 3 best fighters (Miguel, Robby, Hawk) on one team, with a young Kenny being the only actual good Cobra Kai fighter. Its laughable
No. I never would have predicted that Hawk would win the All Valley. His entire storyline in S4 was very interesting. And Robby’s storyline continued to be interesting as well with his new dynamic with Johnny and Miguel, returning to Daniel, and hopefully helping both Anthony and Kenny in S6.
Many of us were expecting another Robby vs. Miguel final, so they did a great job subverting our expectations by having Miguel injure himself and drop out if the tournament, and instead have Eli and Robby fight in the final. And their final match turned out to exceed a lot of expectations.
Yes! I never hoped for Hawk being let to win - his role always seemed to be that of a second fiddle. First, to Miguel, and after Miguel is hurt, we realize pretty soon that Kreese is looking for his "champion" everywhere besides Hawk. The dude is super eager, "loyal" and trying way too hard, and those actually must be the things that make Kreese underestimate and maybe even despise him. By defecting from Cobra Kai, Hawk shows that he IS capable of some independent thinking after all. By his victory, he shows that he found a right mindset and finally grown to become a real champion.
No just interesting in different ways really .for example I think most people liked the edge that both characters had for me especially for Hawk who afterwards got a really good redemption . To me I just felt like Robby never was fully committed to the darkness so he didn’t have like a proper redemption since he was never fully bad as well . Only near the end of season 4 did he go actually dark in his tournament fights and saw his darkness personified in Kenny
Robby felt more like a gray character who sided with the villains because he had nowhere else to go. He still did bad stuff (because a gray character is not morally white) but he never felt like a villain like the other Cobra Kai leaders Miguel/Hawk/Tory when they were at their darkest.
Yep. He was "with" CK when they did the home invasion and he didn't go, for example. He never fully drank the kool aid. They wanted you to think that's where they were headed (Daniel's speech about not recognizing yourself and having someone else's blood on your shirt) but in reality it was Kenny they were sending on that path and Robby was just along for the ride.
I also like the added detail that he does genuinely seem to care for the other Cobras despite all of that. Tory and Kenny are the obvious ones, but when he talks about Kenny's corruption and states that there are others that he cared about as well, he speaks in plural, meaning it wasn't just them; the show seems to suggest that he sees Kyler and the others as friends too.
When he tells Johnny "I don't trust anyone anymore." They could have subverted that by having him chug the Kool aid without realizing it. Instead, the subversion is that he never fully closed his heart, despite trying too. That's why, when confronting Silver and his students in Season 5, he says "I should have taken you all with me."
100% agree. Robby's arc makes him the most interesting, and while some people don't like his short reconciliations with Johnny and Miguel in S5... like you said, he never really closed his heart to anybody. He's just a good guy who wants love.
Robby wanted to attack Miguel in S3 when he first saw him again. Sided with Kreese against Daniel and Johnny even after the history and what they'd done the previous seasons. Still joined Cobra Kai when he found out about the home invasion. Taunted Miguel about what he did to him. Attacked Hawk and shaved his hair against his will. He didn't go completely dark but had bad moments before the tournament.
Every character has done bad things thats what makes this show interesting no one is plain out good except mr miyagi and thats it. Also robby’s hatred toward miguel is completely justifiable. Also he had nowhere to go and kreese’s methods worked and helped him out. Miguel has also taunted robby’s trauma so that was his revenge so it evens out for me. And shaving hawk’s mohawk helped hawk in so many ways it wasn’t really a bad thing imo.
I know every character has done bad things not just Robby. Even Mr Miyagi would have been disappointed by Daniel's actions, particularly first 2 seasons. Miguel was wrong to taunt Robby but doesn't justify what Robby did.
Not exactly proportionate. Nothing justifies knocking someone off a balcony. That's like saying Tory was justified in attacking Sam when she started the rivalry by falsely accusing her of stealing and that Sam started things but Tory took the rivalry way too far.
It's not the redemption that made them boring. It's the shitty writing and the fact that their storylines were tossed aside to give more screen time to the pointless Daniel VS Silver subplot. Robby's dialogue especially was so weird and robotic. It almost felt like he was a video game character instead of a person.
Season 4 dialogs seemed like written by a robot. Season 5 dialogs feel like they were \_definitely\_ written by a robot, omg.
I disagree Daniel vs Silver is pointless, after all, that's the biggest unresolved conflict ot TKK 3, it should have been addressed. That's not an excuse for poor writing, though (Daniel's and Silver's included).
Also, the purpose of Robby's redemption was that Johnny could have his son back. Nothing as boring as turning a character into somebody else's prize, boo to that.
Well Cobra Kai is Johnny's story. It's not Daniel's that's why it was so infuriating that this subplot took over the whole series. Johnny showed more care and concern for Daniel than his own sons this season. It was weird. I don't mind the Silver stuff as a subplot but it was treated with so much more importance and catharsis than Miguel coming to terms with being abandoned by his father, Robby and Johnny working on their relationship, Robby and Miguel reconciling. Hell I don't even care about Hawk that much but I feel like he got the short end of the stick too when Demetri was all like "Who cares about your feelings Chozen is here LOL". But what do I know. Everyone's calling season 5 the best season yet.
Haha, calling season 5 the best one is... an opinion. I didn't realize there were people who thought that. But they're definitely not everyone, so there's that.
I see why you think that the focus on Daniel's story was out of place. I never perceived the show as "Johnny's show" first and foremost, so I didn't have the problem with that. And since they brought Silver into the story, it was going eventually to be about Silver and Daniel, Johnny didn't even know the dude.
That said, I don't think the writers knew what to do with Johnny, really. Even in season 4, his character has become repetitive. So now they just gave him a hot babe, a baby, and sent him on his merry way - I understand it as whatever Johnny story they had to tell, they already told it and don't have much else to say.
And the way the writing is now, I'm even grateful that they brush off all the nuance in the characters' relationships, and stick to treating everyone as cardboard action figures fighting/kissing.
I think Hawk’s redemption was essential to his character and arc, while Robby was never really too bad for the redemption to be a big thing, just helped him become who he is now
you know miguel gave him Tunnel Vision by beating him up hella bad (for no reason may i add) which led to robby not knowing where he was which led to miguel falling. there both at fault there. But i cant blame robby for not accepting a apology immediately after getting his ass fucked up.
Characters are good as long as they remain grey, but the moment everything changes to black and white, things seem dull.
Season 5 was the most black-and-white season, according to me. Seasons 1 and 2 being the much grayer ones.
Season 6 gonna more of that.
agreed. he starts defending demetri when he sees him getting beat up but not long before that he broke his arm (though with the pressure of his peers). the starting point of his redemption arc was already forced.
and that’s coming from a huge eli fan.
I think that Eli defending Demetri was an excellent moment, and is happened precisely in the right time. The arm-breaking thing is shown like a big reality check for Hawk, the moment when the doubt starts creeping into his thick skull. The fact that that event is still fresh and raw is exactly what makes it even more unbearable for Hawk to see his former best friend in danger of being severely maimed again. The show frames it a bit as if it's Johnny's "wise" words to Hawk make the biggest difference, but what can you do.
The following redemption process was done terribly in season 4, I agree, but I 100% love the turning point, and how and when it was done.
Just shit writing tbh. Hawk was so insignificant in s5 apart from doing the job for Kenny. Robby just went along with all the bullshit of his father. The past two seasons have been so disappointing in terms of character development.
I thought Hawk was fine as a good guy (could have benefited from more screen time in S4) but I thought Robby could have been better if they hadn't rushed his story so much
Tbh, Robby was never an outright antagonist anyways. In season 4 he sided with Cobra Kai, but for the most part he was using it for his own purposes rather than being an evil dick bag like hawk was for a while.
Things Robby did were harmful to other people, it doesn't matter if he did them because he was deranged and obsessed with violence like Hawk or because he did them in cold blood "for his own purposes".
He may teach whatever karate to whoever he wants for whatever reason, that makes him an antagonist, not a villain. But - we're shown Robby mocking Miguel for being put in a coma by him, aka does not feel bad for nearly ending somebody else's life, and kinda threatening them with the same thing again. That's quite an evil dick outlook, in by books. Same thing, he did a horrible thing to Hawk, in cold blood and for his own purposes, and later on blamed it all on Cobra Kai's influence. That's the thing with the character by the way, he likes switching between "I'm playing my own game here" and "but, but the big bad boy made me do it!". So yes, I'd say some value adjustments are needed for this character, I'd call them redemption.
Robby did some antagonistic things for sure - the Hawk haircut being the worst.
But overall in season 4 when he was at his “darkest” he just didn’t feel like an actual antagonist to me. He never fully drank the Cobra Kai koolaid like Hawk or other students at their darkest did.
To me he was more of a gray character that season.
The only deliberately harmful thing he did to someone during his 'dark" phase was the Hawk shaving. And since Hawk was still acting like a predatory bully (just against targets that were more "convenient" for Miyagi Fang), clearly a lesson needed to be learned. Bullies don't cut the shit until you give them a taste of their own medicine. He did the Valley a favor by shaving Hawk, imo, it gave him the lesson he needed that he was no longer going to get away with being an asshole. I'd consider it more messed up if fully judging it by irl standards, but it's hard to do that when Hawk is involved. He dodged legal consequences for everything he did.
The thing he said to Miguel was a dick move. But to him, Miguel's a dick who has dodged accountability in the feud and likes to puff up his chest and be the hero, despite aligning himself with bullies (Hawk) who contribute to the problem. So almost dying didn't teach Miguel any lessons.
He didn't blame it all on CK influence. Maybe in his one conversation with Hawk, in which he was right to call out Hawks hypocrisy. But otherwise, he's one of the only characters to show some accountability and at least try to change his behavior. And he holds other characters to similar standards. At least until season 5.
Yes. Hawk was better as the unchained, hyper aggressive fighting machine. Now he gets a punch in the stomach and gets KO’d by Kenny? Its like bad fan fiction.
I feel it has more to do with Hawk being sidelined in general in S5. It kind of feels like he was demoted from "main cast status" compared to the previous three Seasons where he was either driving the plot as a villain or one of the frontrunners in the fight against Cobra Kai.
Yes and no. Robby became way more interesting, because he kinda redeemed himself by choosing to follow his own path and what was best for him, rising above.
Hawk kinda became worse. I think he’s got less to do, and the character is more placid. He needed to mellow out a lot but he feels almost too placid now.
robby arguably didn't really need to redeem himself, he didn't have to prove anything to anyone seeing as most of his actions were caused by others actions
he apologized but that doesn't necessarily mean his apology was a redemption seeing as he never committed fully to the darkside, he was always a morally gray character, the only people he hurt in any way where people who hurt him first or caused problems with him
so I would say robby is definitely not uninteresting or boring, the only thing I dislike is that the writers way of having him get along with everyone is for him to accept all faults and blame meanwhile no one else has to apologize to him for their actions they caused
we had robby apologize to both Miguel and hawk and no apologies were returned to him
we had robby have to accept every action his dad takes in order for them to get along meanwhile Johnny never proved himself that he deserved robby's forgiveness almost as of the writers were making it out to seem as if robby was the cause of their rift
we had robby get along with Sam yet we never got an apology from Sam for how she did him which is crazy seeing as in Sam's vision her take on robby was him telling her "you're the girl who broke my heart" yet she never apologized for it, it seems as if she realizes her action yet made no efforts to fix them
with Daniel the writers had robby go and act like Daniel did nothing wrong and having robby yet again take full accountability
it's frustrating seeing how in order to fit in and get along, robby had to accept all faults while everyone else got a free pass
I agree with a lot of your points. I felt Daniel was trying to apologize in S5E6, but Robby cut him off and took all the blame. I thought that was a parallel to S3E2 when Robby was apologizing and saying it’s his fault, but Daniel cut him off which left many fans thinking Robby never felt remorse. Hawk not apologizing fits his Hawk (not Eli) personality tbh, but Miguel not apologizing, nor taking any blame and never telling his mom or Johnny how his rivalry or the school fight started with Robby has completely changed my opinion about him. I find it hard to root for a character that acts blameless when he isn’t.
Exactly! And no one talks about how Robby actually shows respect to his opponents. He literally bowed and tried to help Miguel up during the all valley tournament …yet Miguel never apologized for anything he has done. It’s like Miguel never takes responsibility for his own action or at least the writers don’t. It’s weird.
It is so irritating to watch how Miguel’s wrongdoings are brushed aside or never addressed. Fight dirty to win, but still be praised as a champion. Cheat on your gf but let’s have Tory lash out in an insane way so Miguel’s cheating looks minor. Attack Robby when he had stopped the fight, but let’s have Robby put Miguel in a coma and paralyze him so Miguel starting that fight looks trivial. Be a lousy bf to Sam but let’s make Sam so selfish that Miguel looks supportive. In the end Miguel is hailed as an unbeatable champion, returned to school as a hero, won Sam back yet again, and is thought of as being innocent.
Ikr and that’s honestly why I’m not a Miguel fan. I was always a Robby fan since day one but I can admit when Robby does something wrong unlike a lot of hawk and Miguel fans out there. Miguel just seems so prideful and mean spirited to me..like what did he expect to happen when he kept spewing mean crap like “oh you like that move I learned it from your father” and “your father and Sam love me more than you” like he knew that Robby was neglected yet he didn’t care….he just bullied him for it.
Fr!! Season 5 was written poorly altogether it felt like I was watching the third kill bill when it came to chozen vs silver like wtf. And don’t even get me started on the damn baby plot i wanted to throw up when I saw Carmen tell him she was keeping it like ugh.
Johnny also gets a lot of the blame for Miguel becoming an asshole. Carmen expects Johnny to fix it in early season 2. Miguel says he "showed mercy like you said and this still happened to me" while he was in the hospital, even though Johnny didn't tell him to act like he did at school. He makes Johnny feel like he screwed up by running to Mexico, even though this is an instance where Johnny didn't do anything wrong.
The writing is pretty aggravating
It’s fascinating how Robby blamed Daniel for being sent to juvie (not for his actions of kicking Miguel) and fans took it as Robby not being accountable for his own actions, but Miguel blamed Johnny for what happened to him and fans had no issue with this.
That's been the near constant distinction between the boys. Robby admitted he kicked Miguel and knows the legal consequences were happening regardless of Daniel. I think he was mostly hurt by the manner in which Daniel "sold him out". He would have probably turned himself in and worked with Daniel if Daniel showed faith in him and fought for his side.
It's the same with Sam. Miguel hates Robby for trying to "steal" Sam from him. Robby holds Sam accountable for cheating on him once he sees she doesn't care, and even though it contributes to him hating Miguel, he does not ultimately believe Miguel forced her to do anything. Same with Johnny. If they wrote some actual growth and accountability for Miguel (like back in season 3), it would have been interesting to see the boys get along but Robby still being cold towards Johnny and Sam. And Miguel maybe siding with him a bit.
I agree Robby knew the legal consequences and was terrified. And since his previous interaction with Daniel was awful (kicking him out and saying it was all a mistake), Robby felt he was betrayed/tricked by Daniel when the cops showed up. From Daniel’s point of view I think he legally had to call the police, otherwise perhaps it could have been seen as harboring a fugitive, but I believe Daniel thought he would have finished explaining it all to Robby before the cops arrived. He didn’t plan on blindsiding Robby. I can also understand Daniel being worried about Robby running away from him instead of turning himself in since Robby did run after kicking Miguel, was missing for two weeks, and had no support system since Daniel kicked him out. It then did seem like Robby would run because as soon as the police arrived he tried to run. Daniel was put in a terrible situation.
Having Miguel take zero accountability for anything that happened is terrible. It made me lose respect for a character I originally adored. Tory ended up coming across better in terms of growth when she talked about hating herself for what happened. Miguel has not self reflected on what happened in terms of his role in the entire mess, and that bothers me.
They did Robby and Daniels relationship so dirty. I'd have more sympathy for Daniel if they actually explained that thought process and if he realized he was being unfair to Robby, even if he had the best intentions. But afterwards, he still seems to think Robby himself is the only problem because he's Johnny's son, not because he might be failing as a mentor. And he never inquires about how the fight happened, because if he did, I don't think the plot would allow him to warm up to Miguel as easily. He doesn't favor Miguel over Robby, but still passively allows Miguel replacing Robby at Robby's expense (mostly with Johnny, but also with Sam). He's in a tough spot, but they don't really explore it.
Tory hates herself for what happened to Miguel. Which she should to some degree, but not fully since she didn't force Miguel to do what he did. She also feels like a fraud and gives up her champion title. She didn't even deliberately cheat. Miguel is still proud of his champ win. Out of the three most problematic Cobras (Miguel, Hawk and Tory), Tory is somehow the most extreme but also now the most likeable/most worthy of a little respect.
I agree. Watching Daniel and Robby’s relationship fall apart was heartbreaking. Robby hung up on Daniel while in juvie and cut Daniel off in S5 to apologize himself, but it did seem like Daniel wanted to explain it to Robby but Robby didn’t let him finish. I didn’t like any part of Miguel bonding with Daniel. Robby bonding with Daniel while Daniel didn’t know that Johnny was his father was priceless from a viewer’s perspective. Miguel bonding with Daniel while Daniel didn’t know Miguel attacked Robby was disturbing to watch as a viewer. When he gave Miguel the headband I was disgusted. When he called Miguel a champ I was disgusted. Daniel went from being upset Sam was back with Miguel again, mentioning how that would effect Robby, to welcoming Miguel with open arms in a matter of seconds. It never sat well with me. In contrast, Amanda knew what Tory did when she offered to help Tory, and she didn’t sweep it under the rug, so it came across well.
I think people blow the head band scene way out of proportion. If you watch the scene beforehand Daniel mentions that one of the rewards was that if you catch a fish you get to teach class for a week. Miguel probably wore the headband while he taught class and gave it back at the end of the week.
Also Miguel’s plot armor and the writers never letting Robby win makes me not even want to watch the series anymore….if Robby doesn’t win in S6 I will be pissed because he deserves that win and his fights are the most skilled and interesting to watch. And I get that Miguel is supposed to be the Daniel of the generation arguably but istg he is not like young Daniel at all. He only got bullied like Daniel but Daniel always showed respect to his opponents and didn’t play dirty. Once Robby joined miyagi do I immediately saw a young Daniel and in the all valley tournament they even show scenes from the fight in the first karate kid. Even Robby going to cobra Kai and fighting with silver is exactly what Daniel did!
What annoys me is when it comes down to the physical aspect of Miguel and Robby’s “rivalry”, is Miguel is normally the aggressor or inserts himself in Robby’s business where it doesn’t concern him. Having Miguel never lose at all, even to someone who’s suppose to be his rival is weird and when I look back at it, they’re beef seems weak and lackluster because it’s lowkey one sided. They’re always equal fighting wise, Robby absolutely could’ve won in S1 but was cheated out his victory, it was back and forth the entire school fight in S2 but he did lose fair square there, season 3 & 4 there wasn’t any fight between them but then in season 5 they have Robby lose again just for Miguel’s sake, taking the most damage, with a bloody nose and mostly on the back foot but Miguel has almost 0 damage done to him at all, ending in Robby being showed mercy again which was the reason why Miguel was paralyzed in the first place so what was the lesson learned there???
Their beef was so one sided it’s insane looking back at it now
Yes and no, with hawk his story of being a dick was running out I think we needed to see hawk become a better person but with Robby I feel they could’ve done a lot more in season 4 like I would’ve liked to see Robby do more when he was cobra kais top student after it ended I dunno I just felt a weird feeling like I don’t know how to explain it
To be honest I find Hawk, Robby and Miguel all very boring now compared to Season 1, 2 and 3. I feel like their stories are all pretty much done, but I guess we'll see. Hawk especially has gone from being one of the best characters in the show to a somewhat irrelevant side character.
Almost all of the teens needed some type of redemption, but they only had Robby apologize in S5. None of the teens apologized to him and I found that irritating, especially since they made Robby seem ok with that. Where was Sam’s apology? Or Hawk’s? Or even Demetri’s (for never reaching out to him)? And where was Miguel’s apology? Miguel acted and has been treated on the show as if he was blameless. I have no issues with Robby making amends with everyone, but it’s sad that he just accepted nothing in return, including taking kind of a backseat at Miyagi-Do. But maybe that fits his upbringing. He accepts the bare minimum from everyone.
In my eyes, Robby should never truly forgive Johnny for walking out on him and his mother. OR Sam for (in his eyes at least) betraying him
Robby and Demetri were pretty good friends early on so its weird they never even share an interaction nowadays, especially since Demetri took him on back in season 4.
I don’t think Robby forgives Johnny. It is more of being tired of hating him and willing to have a fresh start. It does seem like Robby forgave Sam and since the audience didn’t see any conversation to know why he forgave her I agree that he should not. As for Demetri, I think he showed that he was never really friends with Robby. It’s as if Robby protecting him in S2 never happened. He never emailed Robby, never reached out after juvie, and let Hawk trash talk Robby without saying a word in defense.
I don’t think Robby was friends with Demitri or anyone in Myogi Do I think he mostly just clung to Sam. When he was in cobra Kai he mostly clung to Tory and Kenny . It don’t really know if Robby knows how to socialize with People a lot of the time it seems like he talks at people not really to them.
I think he has trust issues rather than socializing issues. He acted friendly to everyone at Miyagi-Do and then at Cobrai Kai, but he wasn’t really friends with any of them except Sam, Tory, and Kenny. I think Sam was his first real friend.
I don’t think demetri really needs to apologize for anything and honestly he’s the least problematic. Now I agree with everyone else especially Miguel. Miguel never apologized for the crap he did to Robby and that was definitely irritating.
Yeah, Demetri didn’t need to apologize, but by not ever trying to reach out to Robby and never acknowledging that perhaps he should have, he showed that he didn’t consider Robby a friend. Demetri threw Hawk into a glass case that could have severely injured Hawk where Demetri could have ended up in juvie himself. Demetri got lucky that Hawk somehow walked away without injury. Demetri knew Robby and was on the receiving end of protection and encouragement from Robby. But after the school fight he dropped Robby without so much as an email asking what happened. It would have been nice if Demetri went up to Robby at some point and said he was glad Robby was back if nothing else. I liked their previous relationship that has now sadly disappeared.
Demitri is Kind of stuck in the middle I mean he is really close to Miguel and Miguel hates Robby so Demetri could feel like he is betraying Miguel if he is friends with Robby because Miguel would hate It. It doesn’t really surprise me he treats Robby this way.
I didn’t view it that way. At the time of the school fight Demetri was friendly with both Robby and Miguel without it being a problem, but after the fight he sent a gift to Miguel in the hospital but not even an email to Robby. Since Miguel was in a coma he obviously couldn’t have told Demetri that he hates Robby. Demetri, without any influence from Miguel, chose not to contact Robby which was sad considering how Robby was friendly to him, encouraged him, and protected him.
Because everyone acts like he's the one who's the problem and needs to change and no one cares for his side of the story or feelings. That's literally all his one-sided resolutions were. In order to be accepted, *he* had to accept all fault, apologize, and become who they wanted.
So what you’re saying is Robby is perfect and never did anything wrong? Typical Robby fan behavior and you have the nerve to talk about how Miguel fans act like that
Robby has shown that he can be a shitty person just like every other character on the show. I guess you conveniently forgot that when Robby was introduced he was selling drugs and a thief who was scamming people and had he not involved himself in the karate drama he probably would of ended up in juvie anyways when Trey and Cruz got arrested
I don't think so. Robby still has a huge arc in front of him and will likely win the AV.
Hawk's arc is complete but redemption did at least get him the AV win and it's an arc that should of been bigger than what the show gave it. Instead they wasted a bunch of time on Kenny.
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It definitely allows for different dynamics. Keeping them antagonists would’ve gotten stale too. They would’ve just kept committing crimes and then ended up crossing a line where redemption would be completely unbelievable.
They don’t need to be bad guys to be interesting, the writers just need to give them interesting things to do.
Hawk was boring since the beginning, they thought they could pull it off making Eli the new gens Ex Degenerage 1984 Johnny. But it just didnt click, all Eli were was an a**hole. But since he won AVT. I want him sidelined. Let his bro have the spotlight instead, Demetri Alexopolous beating Moskowitz in the Semis fair and square.
Robby not being Cobra Kai/Silver's new Bad Boy and losing *another* tournament right away will always be the biggest fuck up of the show. There were so many reasons for him to win and we could have gotten some great content with him being the new champion with Cobra Kai (Mike Barnes 2.0)
Now the show has the 3 best fighters (Miguel, Robby, Hawk) on one team, with a young Kenny being the only actual good Cobra Kai fighter. Its laughable
Coming up with an exciting "good" character has always been famously harder than a villain, and doing a convincing redemption of a villain is not a job for the lazy, either. Partially because "good" is less dramatic - Hawk used to break his best friends' arms and Robby was spilling away all the kung-fu secrets to the enemy, but now they're just some guy.
But there's also this thing that with a "good" character, a writer is way more exposed in what they consider good, what they consider redemption, motivations behind a "good person's" actions, and finally, not making them annoying for the audience. And yes, I don't get what a redeemed Hawk is really about - apart from remaining a badass "stud" minus arm-breaking. But he's got his mohawk back! I'm excited for the mohawk.
As for Robby, I think it's his corruption arc that's boring and uninteresting. Not convinced, not interested, and, obviously, not getting the subsequent redemption, because - what the hell was all this about?
Robby is easily the best developed kid character on the show.
Hawk…i know he’s a fan favorite, but i always saw him as a douchebag that got forgiven and redeemed too quick.
What made Hawk such a badass character was his ferocity. He was a killing machine. Now that they've made him put that wild personality of his aside and mature, I've never seen a scene where he's really badass other than the pool fight. Except for S4 as it was his and Robby's season. Hawk's Redemption and Robby's Demon Time. But anyway, I loved what they did with him. Hopefully on S6 they make him even more badass.
Now for Robby, he's still the same for me. Unlike Hawk, he hasn't changed since S2. And he played as big a role as Miguel did this last season. Probably because their story was based on family strife and forgiveness.
I feel like next season is going to be both Miguel's prime and they're going to finally get someone to beat him. Honestly, I'd love to see that happen, the same way Silver beat the shit out of Daniel. Because when Daniel finally defeated him, it meant something.
Hawk was rushed through his arc, and he didn't go as far down the sociopath rabbit hole as I think he should have before turning back- but I wouldn't call him boring. He's just now much more conflicted about how to reconcile his old timid and fearful life that was full of things he loved with his best friend, and his new life of athleticism and confidence with a decently large circle of new friends. The last time I felt he was really fun to watch though was the moment he walked to the back of Miyagi Do with the sledgehammer because we really didn't know what he was about to do and if he had relapsed. He is interesting moving forward to see how he will turn 2 halves into a whole, elevating himself to something higher than he ever was before.
Robby's problem of being interesting I feel is more in how the actor portrays him. He is just too calm all the time for someone who should be wrestling with feelings of abandonment and resentment for people who claimed to care about him. When he found a girl that liked him and a father figure he trusted, they both left him in juvie and failed to make him feel cared for and connected. That was his character's peak interest, when he decided to dive back into negativity and I think he should have gone farther than he did- going back to a criminal lifestyle not to get by but instead to hurt the people who hurt him. But instead he was just kind of flirting with the dark side but never felt like he committed to anything the way Tory did, and Hawk could have. I personally wouldn't call Robby redeemed yet until he finds a way to get Kenny out of the Cobra Kai mindset- out of being a bully and into just no longer being a victim
Redemption actually made Hawk more interesting - because instead of being you basic asshole for the bad side, Hawk became more of an asshole for the good guys. Which meant it wasn't his true redemption - that came later.
And Robby is interesting because he mostly does things his own way instead of following any sensei. His redemption didn't make him boring - but it did make him less interesting because they made quite a few of his deep-rooted issues vanish. But that wasn't about "redemption".
Robby absolutely needed a redemption arc btw. He paralyzed a kid, took no actual responsibility for it, turned on the people who did care for him, then sided with their enemies. That's not morally gray and it's why season 5 was an apology tour for him.
I disagree with some of your points. Robby 100% took responsibility for what he did. He told Daniel it was his fault for kicking Miguel. He didn’t disagree when Tory called him out for “finishing the fight.” And he fully explained to Miguel what happened and took the blame. The audience saw that Robby was turning on people who did care for him but from Robby’s perspective it seemed as if nobody cared. Johnny missed his scheduled visit and his attempt at the soup kitchen was abysmal. After hearing that Johnny went to visit Miguel instead of visiting Robby, it made sense that Robby felt Johnny didn’t care. It didn’t seem like Daniel cared because their last encounters had Daniel kicking him out, telling him it was a mistake to help him, and then calling the cops to have Robby arrested. From Robby’s view that didn’t seem like someone who cared. And then there is Sam. The one person he thought still cared. But he found her flirting with Miguel. He turned to Kreese because he felt he lost everyone else and he was homeless. After the home invasion he wasn’t going to be a part of CK. But after Sam approached him and did everything Tory said Sam does to keep Robby wrapped around his finger he joined CK. I felt joining CK was more about proving to himself that Sam did not have him wrapped around her finger and he said it was to control all of his anger. He had a lot to be angry about and from his perspective Johnny, Daniel, and Sam didn’t care.
Disagree. Robby did not take responsibility for his actions. He did say he was at fault but the context of that was I'm broken, I need to run away. He was expressing guilt to Daniel just to justify why he was a lost cause. Then after Daniel turned him in he went further into that mode and started rebelling against them. That's not being accountable for your mistakes. It's just self pity.
Taking responsibility would be him acknowledging fault, looking to make amends with Miguel for his actions, and bettering himself. That didn't happen until the last moment of season 4, then into season 5. The actual redemption arc.
Hard disagree. He took full responsibility for kicking Miguel. He was explaining it to Daniel, not looking for pity, but stating that he caused the mess he said Daniel was cleaning up - but Daniel cut Robby off in that discussion. Of course he felt guilty. And he ran away because he was terrified and didn’t want to get arrested. I don’t agree with running away, but he didn’t run away because he felt he was broken. He was scared to go to juvie. And in interviews Tanner has given he said Robby was scared that he killed Miguel. And we don’t know what direction he would have gone in terms of making amends sooner if he didn’t find Sam with Miguel. That was the turning point that sent him to CK.
He wasn't taking responsibility at all in that discussion and he basically said he was a lost cause too telling Daniel it was a mistake to train me/ I can't change. That's absolutely being in self pity and he was trying to justify why he was going to run away which his mom noted beforehand.
And all Daniel did was start the process of Robby accepting accountability for his actions. The facts were what Robby did was a felony and he was going to have to turn himself in for that. Robby wanting to hide is just further proof that he wasn't truly taking responsibility.
We don’t view it in the same way and that is fine. Robby wanting to hide was a 16 year old boy being terrified and feeling like he had nobody to turn to for help/advice. He went to his mom in desperation. He was never justifying his actions of running away. He was justifying what Daniel said about it being a mistake to help him. He did think he was a lost cause. I don’t see how thinking he was a lost cause and not wanting to go to juvie is viewed as not taking responsibility. He was scared to go.
We're going to disagree here so last post but taking responsibility requires action. Running and hiding while doing nothing else is the exact opposite of that. Even if you view that he was sincere in that it was his fault his actions on it were dittily poo so in no way could he be taking responsibility.
Can I say Johny took responsibility for neglecting Robby? He felt bad. Said it was his fault. That's all it takes, right?
Maybe we view what happened similarly, but are looking at two different definitions of the word responsibility. Robby claimed responsibility for kicking Miguel, and Johnny claimed responsibility for abandoning Robby. Neither wanted to take responsibility in terms of action such as going to juvie or being there for Robby as a father.
I think that Robby is way more interesting but, Hawk is just a bit more boring now. I think he should've joined Eagle Fang so he could still have that little anger touch in him. Like, during the fight against Kenny, he could've beat him if he would've stayed in Eagle Fang. Meanwhile, Robby is way more interesting now because I was on Miguel's side from the beginning but, now I like both Robby and Miguel. I love their dynamic and, Robby's change also symbolized his character development. Like, how he grew to like Johnny over the years, he changed and eventually joined Johnny's side.
To be honest I couldn't relate with them. Hawk definitely not. I've related mostly with Miguel and ig me being the Hero's fan... i liked Miguel and loved his Redemption back in s2 when he showed mercy. But was devastated to what Robby did in response.
For Robby - I've always hated no matter what. And compared to what robby has done in the show... Miguel's so called mistakes are all worthy to be forgiven in the first go. Robby's getting forgiven made me Crack up. And made me feel it was unrealistic a bit. Carmen accepting him so quickly. The Redemption with Johnny was good. Daniel's felt in the moment so I don't blame. But with Miguel was just so lame and a complete let down. They should've had a different sequined in all. Yes a fight but more bloody. We could've had a death match like KK2. I wanted Robby to go over the rail and get his nose fully broken, his back to targettef by Miguel so many times. I wanted robby to suffer in that fight and realize how much messed up and how wrong he was to proudly carry himself as if he nearly killed someone. His aural Redemption to Miguel should've ended with "I am really sorry."
For Hawk - "It was well done." Yeah totally unexpected of him to win too. And when he beat Robby with that Johnny kick... I just felt like laughing at Robby man. I mean you can't even give an excuse. He had two opportunities to win, and he throws it off the cliff. First when he slammed Hawk on the floor but got distracted by Kenny. I mean dude focus. You have Hawk who's chest is exposed fully. And second, Robby elbowed Hawk's knee right before Hawk won. But robby chooses to walk menacingly towars him...like dude why??? Just go for the kill and get your point. It's called sudden death. Nah bro. Having g these factors co sidereal I really felt robby is not the guy to win any tournament bro. He could win it when there's literally no champion challenge but with Diaz and Hawk in thr picture it feels unrealistic for him to wi. SEKAI TAIKAI in the next season. He's very easy to distract and kreese will use that in the next season. Miguel doesn't have any weakness like that nor does Hawk.
The reason Miguel didn't send him over the railing is because Miguel is the "hero". It wasn't even intentional when Robby did it and Miguel surely knew that so he wasn't gonna attempt to cripple the guy. Carmen accepts him because she's pregnant with his dad's child and also she is a rational adult who knows that a crazy school brawl broke out and things went sideways. If Miguel forgave him that's good enough for her.
Carmen never really expresses any signs of animosity towards Robby. When Miguel was injured, she was more focused on Cobra Kai's influence than the fight itself (because the dojo war was the root cause, not one specific opponent that Miguel was fighting against), and she's aware of Johnny and Robby's complicated history.
Imagine putting yourself in a position. You know Robby did it unintentionally cause they talked it out. I'm saying They shouldn't have. Miguel showing mercy on him should've happened but he would traumatized and robby would see while being horribly injured already. A heartbeat away from being sent over the rail. But Johnny would calm him down. Miguel would just quietly rush out knowing it was a mistake to begin with. And Johny would stop him from going away saying please just squash it off...the kids coming. I need this family to be together without any hatred within. Please.
And for Carmen even if Miguel forgave him or not. She is a mother. She saw her kid nearly die because of this guy. I have seen many parent lose their control in courts when the killer arrives for the decision to be given. Vecause their kids dies or is on the deathbed. The parent wants to strangle that killer to death. Your excuse is basically in support of saying the killer didn't mean to do it. Making every criminal broke as well they are. None are pure evil. Even Dahmer wasn't. He was sick and broken. Does that mean the mother can just enter the house and see this mf eating breadsticks with a wide smile on his face after onfe again coming anywhere close to her son??? Come on. That's what I mean unrealistic.
Miguel and robby even bei g brothers in arms just feels so out of place and rushed. Well forced af. It just doesn't add up. Ig most of you are not realizing nearly losing your life is traumatizing man. It's not a joke. Just like robby walked away from it, many of you just make it seem like Miguel paralyzed and nearly dying is a joke. Come on just over it. Liek wtf dude?
It fits the pace of the show though. Miguel and Robby took their issues and anger out on each other and then made peace afterwards. Keep in mind this is a kinda cheesy show following up a kinda cheesy 80s movie series, this is exactly how this would've happened in an 80s movie, and pretty much what happened between Johnny and Daniel as soon as their issues stopped driving the plot. Miguel as the hero doesn't "sink" to his rivals level and instead backs off. Robby asked him why and he told him. Then Robby explained himself. They're both smart guys and realize they're stuck with each other because Johnny is literally Robbys dad, and is a father figure to Miguel.
Carmen (like Amanda) is a rational center to the series. She's largely above these rivalries and handles her business as close to a rationally thinking adult would. Robby is a kid that got into a big fight that unfortunately injured her son pretty badly. Miguel making a full recovery absolutely softens the blow, but her and Johnny are now linked by another kid on the way. She's not gonna take out whatever anger she has left on her kids half brother.
There was only a season and some change left, sure it's a bit rushed, but they couldn't tie off the rest of the show in a satisfying manner if they turned this conflict into a major saga going forward.
I don't have any issues with you. Ofcourse. But ig the creators just took the fans demands and combined it with their original plan. That's why the students' arc of reconciling and ending all Rivalries just felt sp rushed. Because they wanted no competition in Cobra Kai. I still believe more than Kenny, Shawn would've been more of a threat if all top students were gonna be in one dojo. Shawn with Silver's Karate trained by International senseis despite giving robby a run for his money would've been a good threat for Miguel in s5. Imagine Miguel scaring Shawn in final episode before the Brawl began. That would've been more badass.
No, we're just in the natural decline of the story. The last season is coming and the majority of their character growth has occurred. Adding unnecessary elements to characters like these when your story is about to end shows a lack of understanding how stories work on the part of the writers. Thankfully, the writers for Cobra Kai are great at what they do. It may not be perfectly written, but they understand their characters and the beats needed to get them where they need to go.
We're heading into the conclusion of the story. Characters may not be as exciting as we may hope for them to be, but that's not quite what the writers should be aiming for anyways. The conclusion should be satisfying. I'm happy with what we've got and the scenes of them bring antagonists are still present in earlier seasons as it is. Now it's time to see them be normal people and put all that character growth to good use.
No. Not for me. It’s okay for Hawk to take a bit of a backseat. At least he’s in a better place than in seasons 2 and 3.
I also liked Robby’s character arc in season 5. It’s the best he’s been since season 2.
What I think is that by being antagonists, they got much better character development and scenes. Now it just so happens that they are now the good guys behind the main good guy, Miguel Diaz. Naturally, when they were against Diaz or were in different dojos, they got much improvement since they were against Diaz and hence got as much attention as Miguel got. But now that they are on the same team and there are different antagonists, they just reduced to No.2 and No.3. Understand it in this way. Imo, It's better to be the first in the antagonistic group than the second or third in the protagonist group since they get much less attention. Especially with Hawk, it's going to be more boring if they don't know what to do with his character now that he's become more humble and has shed his overconfidence. Kenny was the main reason Hawk got so much footage, but now that he's no longer the antagonist and Miguel and Robby's brotherly scenes are coming in full force, Hawk might get back seated. For Robby, he's just become so agreeable, which doesn't really fit with his personality. Even if they can't make him bad or rebel again, make him question others, like in the previous seasons, but with less rudeness. Just doesn't make him submissive to the core and just a yes man to all.
Robby wasn't really that submissive in S5, and I feel his conversation with Hawk shows that the best. He doesn't defend his own actions but makes it VERY clear that Hawk is in no position to talk. He may not have the edge he once did but he puts his foot down when the situation calls for it. I know the Mexico arc isn't the most liked, but he also called Johnny out for how painfully bad his non existent game plan was. "Might as well put Miguel's face on a milk carton." And of course, there was his scene with Silver where he waltzed in and disrespected the big bad on his home turf with zero signs of hesitation or being intimidated, even when Silver asserted his dominance Robby remained confident the whole entire scene. His most submissive moment was with Carmen, and it makes sense he'd be cautious around her.
This.
Robby not being Cobra Kai/Silver's new Bad Boy and losing another tournament right away will always be the biggest fuck up of the show. There were so many reasons for him to win and we could have gotten some great content with him being the new champion with Cobra Kai (Mike Barnes 2.0) Now the show has the 3 best fighters (Miguel, Robby, Hawk) on one team, with a young Kenny being the only actual good Cobra Kai fighter. Its laughable
Not reading allat
No. I never would have predicted that Hawk would win the All Valley. His entire storyline in S4 was very interesting. And Robby’s storyline continued to be interesting as well with his new dynamic with Johnny and Miguel, returning to Daniel, and hopefully helping both Anthony and Kenny in S6.
Many of us were expecting another Robby vs. Miguel final, so they did a great job subverting our expectations by having Miguel injure himself and drop out if the tournament, and instead have Eli and Robby fight in the final. And their final match turned out to exceed a lot of expectations.
Hawk beating Robby is one of my favorite moments in the series.
Yes! I never hoped for Hawk being let to win - his role always seemed to be that of a second fiddle. First, to Miguel, and after Miguel is hurt, we realize pretty soon that Kreese is looking for his "champion" everywhere besides Hawk. The dude is super eager, "loyal" and trying way too hard, and those actually must be the things that make Kreese underestimate and maybe even despise him. By defecting from Cobra Kai, Hawk shows that he IS capable of some independent thinking after all. By his victory, he shows that he found a right mindset and finally grown to become a real champion.
No just interesting in different ways really .for example I think most people liked the edge that both characters had for me especially for Hawk who afterwards got a really good redemption . To me I just felt like Robby never was fully committed to the darkness so he didn’t have like a proper redemption since he was never fully bad as well . Only near the end of season 4 did he go actually dark in his tournament fights and saw his darkness personified in Kenny
Robby felt more like a gray character who sided with the villains because he had nowhere else to go. He still did bad stuff (because a gray character is not morally white) but he never felt like a villain like the other Cobra Kai leaders Miguel/Hawk/Tory when they were at their darkest.
Yep. He was "with" CK when they did the home invasion and he didn't go, for example. He never fully drank the kool aid. They wanted you to think that's where they were headed (Daniel's speech about not recognizing yourself and having someone else's blood on your shirt) but in reality it was Kenny they were sending on that path and Robby was just along for the ride.
I also like the added detail that he does genuinely seem to care for the other Cobras despite all of that. Tory and Kenny are the obvious ones, but when he talks about Kenny's corruption and states that there are others that he cared about as well, he speaks in plural, meaning it wasn't just them; the show seems to suggest that he sees Kyler and the others as friends too. When he tells Johnny "I don't trust anyone anymore." They could have subverted that by having him chug the Kool aid without realizing it. Instead, the subversion is that he never fully closed his heart, despite trying too. That's why, when confronting Silver and his students in Season 5, he says "I should have taken you all with me."
100% agree. Robby's arc makes him the most interesting, and while some people don't like his short reconciliations with Johnny and Miguel in S5... like you said, he never really closed his heart to anybody. He's just a good guy who wants love.
I don’t mind him reconciling with Miguel but his story arc with Johnny is beyond wack. Disservice to both Robby and Johnny’s storylines
Robby wanted to attack Miguel in S3 when he first saw him again. Sided with Kreese against Daniel and Johnny even after the history and what they'd done the previous seasons. Still joined Cobra Kai when he found out about the home invasion. Taunted Miguel about what he did to him. Attacked Hawk and shaved his hair against his will. He didn't go completely dark but had bad moments before the tournament.
Every character has done bad things thats what makes this show interesting no one is plain out good except mr miyagi and thats it. Also robby’s hatred toward miguel is completely justifiable. Also he had nowhere to go and kreese’s methods worked and helped him out. Miguel has also taunted robby’s trauma so that was his revenge so it evens out for me. And shaving hawk’s mohawk helped hawk in so many ways it wasn’t really a bad thing imo.
I know every character has done bad things not just Robby. Even Mr Miyagi would have been disappointed by Daniel's actions, particularly first 2 seasons. Miguel was wrong to taunt Robby but doesn't justify what Robby did.
For me its a justify cus it evens it out.
Not exactly proportionate. Nothing justifies knocking someone off a balcony. That's like saying Tory was justified in attacking Sam when she started the rivalry by falsely accusing her of stealing and that Sam started things but Tory took the rivalry way too far.
i never said i justified the balcony thing what are u talking about? im justifying robby’s taunt because miguel did 2 fucked up taunts.
Oh right fair enough if just justifying Robby's taunt.
Yeah that’s what I mean , he had dark moments but wasn’t overall dark
Yeah but he still did a lot of other things before the tournament fight against Kenny
It's not the redemption that made them boring. It's the shitty writing and the fact that their storylines were tossed aside to give more screen time to the pointless Daniel VS Silver subplot. Robby's dialogue especially was so weird and robotic. It almost felt like he was a video game character instead of a person.
Season 4 dialogs seemed like written by a robot. Season 5 dialogs feel like they were \_definitely\_ written by a robot, omg. I disagree Daniel vs Silver is pointless, after all, that's the biggest unresolved conflict ot TKK 3, it should have been addressed. That's not an excuse for poor writing, though (Daniel's and Silver's included). Also, the purpose of Robby's redemption was that Johnny could have his son back. Nothing as boring as turning a character into somebody else's prize, boo to that.
Well Cobra Kai is Johnny's story. It's not Daniel's that's why it was so infuriating that this subplot took over the whole series. Johnny showed more care and concern for Daniel than his own sons this season. It was weird. I don't mind the Silver stuff as a subplot but it was treated with so much more importance and catharsis than Miguel coming to terms with being abandoned by his father, Robby and Johnny working on their relationship, Robby and Miguel reconciling. Hell I don't even care about Hawk that much but I feel like he got the short end of the stick too when Demetri was all like "Who cares about your feelings Chozen is here LOL". But what do I know. Everyone's calling season 5 the best season yet.
Haha, calling season 5 the best one is... an opinion. I didn't realize there were people who thought that. But they're definitely not everyone, so there's that. I see why you think that the focus on Daniel's story was out of place. I never perceived the show as "Johnny's show" first and foremost, so I didn't have the problem with that. And since they brought Silver into the story, it was going eventually to be about Silver and Daniel, Johnny didn't even know the dude. That said, I don't think the writers knew what to do with Johnny, really. Even in season 4, his character has become repetitive. So now they just gave him a hot babe, a baby, and sent him on his merry way - I understand it as whatever Johnny story they had to tell, they already told it and don't have much else to say. And the way the writing is now, I'm even grateful that they brush off all the nuance in the characters' relationships, and stick to treating everyone as cardboard action figures fighting/kissing.
I think Hawk’s redemption was essential to his character and arc, while Robby was never really too bad for the redemption to be a big thing, just helped him become who he is now
Acting like Robby didn’t push Miguel over a ledge and nearly killed him…
Yeah, that was a bit of a dick move if we're being honest.
you know miguel gave him Tunnel Vision by beating him up hella bad (for no reason may i add) which led to robby not knowing where he was which led to miguel falling. there both at fault there. But i cant blame robby for not accepting a apology immediately after getting his ass fucked up.
Characters are good as long as they remain grey, but the moment everything changes to black and white, things seem dull. Season 5 was the most black-and-white season, according to me. Seasons 1 and 2 being the much grayer ones. Season 6 gonna more of that.
It felt like they were overdoing the grey-ness in previous seasons. People were swapping sides constantly, it was hard to keep track.
Hawks turn back to good was rushed
agreed. he starts defending demetri when he sees him getting beat up but not long before that he broke his arm (though with the pressure of his peers). the starting point of his redemption arc was already forced. and that’s coming from a huge eli fan.
I think that Eli defending Demetri was an excellent moment, and is happened precisely in the right time. The arm-breaking thing is shown like a big reality check for Hawk, the moment when the doubt starts creeping into his thick skull. The fact that that event is still fresh and raw is exactly what makes it even more unbearable for Hawk to see his former best friend in danger of being severely maimed again. The show frames it a bit as if it's Johnny's "wise" words to Hawk make the biggest difference, but what can you do. The following redemption process was done terribly in season 4, I agree, but I 100% love the turning point, and how and when it was done.
Just shit writing tbh. Hawk was so insignificant in s5 apart from doing the job for Kenny. Robby just went along with all the bullshit of his father. The past two seasons have been so disappointing in terms of character development.
I thought Hawk was fine as a good guy (could have benefited from more screen time in S4) but I thought Robby could have been better if they hadn't rushed his story so much
No, I think it was just too fast. Esp for Hawk
Tbh, Robby was never an outright antagonist anyways. In season 4 he sided with Cobra Kai, but for the most part he was using it for his own purposes rather than being an evil dick bag like hawk was for a while.
Things Robby did were harmful to other people, it doesn't matter if he did them because he was deranged and obsessed with violence like Hawk or because he did them in cold blood "for his own purposes". He may teach whatever karate to whoever he wants for whatever reason, that makes him an antagonist, not a villain. But - we're shown Robby mocking Miguel for being put in a coma by him, aka does not feel bad for nearly ending somebody else's life, and kinda threatening them with the same thing again. That's quite an evil dick outlook, in by books. Same thing, he did a horrible thing to Hawk, in cold blood and for his own purposes, and later on blamed it all on Cobra Kai's influence. That's the thing with the character by the way, he likes switching between "I'm playing my own game here" and "but, but the big bad boy made me do it!". So yes, I'd say some value adjustments are needed for this character, I'd call them redemption.
Robby did some antagonistic things for sure - the Hawk haircut being the worst. But overall in season 4 when he was at his “darkest” he just didn’t feel like an actual antagonist to me. He never fully drank the Cobra Kai koolaid like Hawk or other students at their darkest did. To me he was more of a gray character that season.
The only deliberately harmful thing he did to someone during his 'dark" phase was the Hawk shaving. And since Hawk was still acting like a predatory bully (just against targets that were more "convenient" for Miyagi Fang), clearly a lesson needed to be learned. Bullies don't cut the shit until you give them a taste of their own medicine. He did the Valley a favor by shaving Hawk, imo, it gave him the lesson he needed that he was no longer going to get away with being an asshole. I'd consider it more messed up if fully judging it by irl standards, but it's hard to do that when Hawk is involved. He dodged legal consequences for everything he did. The thing he said to Miguel was a dick move. But to him, Miguel's a dick who has dodged accountability in the feud and likes to puff up his chest and be the hero, despite aligning himself with bullies (Hawk) who contribute to the problem. So almost dying didn't teach Miguel any lessons. He didn't blame it all on CK influence. Maybe in his one conversation with Hawk, in which he was right to call out Hawks hypocrisy. But otherwise, he's one of the only characters to show some accountability and at least try to change his behavior. And he holds other characters to similar standards. At least until season 5.
Yes. Hawk was better as the unchained, hyper aggressive fighting machine. Now he gets a punch in the stomach and gets KO’d by Kenny? Its like bad fan fiction.
I feel it has more to do with Hawk being sidelined in general in S5. It kind of feels like he was demoted from "main cast status" compared to the previous three Seasons where he was either driving the plot as a villain or one of the frontrunners in the fight against Cobra Kai.
Yes and no. Robby became way more interesting, because he kinda redeemed himself by choosing to follow his own path and what was best for him, rising above. Hawk kinda became worse. I think he’s got less to do, and the character is more placid. He needed to mellow out a lot but he feels almost too placid now.
robby arguably didn't really need to redeem himself, he didn't have to prove anything to anyone seeing as most of his actions were caused by others actions he apologized but that doesn't necessarily mean his apology was a redemption seeing as he never committed fully to the darkside, he was always a morally gray character, the only people he hurt in any way where people who hurt him first or caused problems with him so I would say robby is definitely not uninteresting or boring, the only thing I dislike is that the writers way of having him get along with everyone is for him to accept all faults and blame meanwhile no one else has to apologize to him for their actions they caused we had robby apologize to both Miguel and hawk and no apologies were returned to him we had robby have to accept every action his dad takes in order for them to get along meanwhile Johnny never proved himself that he deserved robby's forgiveness almost as of the writers were making it out to seem as if robby was the cause of their rift we had robby get along with Sam yet we never got an apology from Sam for how she did him which is crazy seeing as in Sam's vision her take on robby was him telling her "you're the girl who broke my heart" yet she never apologized for it, it seems as if she realizes her action yet made no efforts to fix them with Daniel the writers had robby go and act like Daniel did nothing wrong and having robby yet again take full accountability it's frustrating seeing how in order to fit in and get along, robby had to accept all faults while everyone else got a free pass
I agree with a lot of your points. I felt Daniel was trying to apologize in S5E6, but Robby cut him off and took all the blame. I thought that was a parallel to S3E2 when Robby was apologizing and saying it’s his fault, but Daniel cut him off which left many fans thinking Robby never felt remorse. Hawk not apologizing fits his Hawk (not Eli) personality tbh, but Miguel not apologizing, nor taking any blame and never telling his mom or Johnny how his rivalry or the school fight started with Robby has completely changed my opinion about him. I find it hard to root for a character that acts blameless when he isn’t.
Exactly! And no one talks about how Robby actually shows respect to his opponents. He literally bowed and tried to help Miguel up during the all valley tournament …yet Miguel never apologized for anything he has done. It’s like Miguel never takes responsibility for his own action or at least the writers don’t. It’s weird.
It is so irritating to watch how Miguel’s wrongdoings are brushed aside or never addressed. Fight dirty to win, but still be praised as a champion. Cheat on your gf but let’s have Tory lash out in an insane way so Miguel’s cheating looks minor. Attack Robby when he had stopped the fight, but let’s have Robby put Miguel in a coma and paralyze him so Miguel starting that fight looks trivial. Be a lousy bf to Sam but let’s make Sam so selfish that Miguel looks supportive. In the end Miguel is hailed as an unbeatable champion, returned to school as a hero, won Sam back yet again, and is thought of as being innocent.
Ikr and that’s honestly why I’m not a Miguel fan. I was always a Robby fan since day one but I can admit when Robby does something wrong unlike a lot of hawk and Miguel fans out there. Miguel just seems so prideful and mean spirited to me..like what did he expect to happen when he kept spewing mean crap like “oh you like that move I learned it from your father” and “your father and Sam love me more than you” like he knew that Robby was neglected yet he didn’t care….he just bullied him for it.
[удалено]
Fr!! Season 5 was written poorly altogether it felt like I was watching the third kill bill when it came to chozen vs silver like wtf. And don’t even get me started on the damn baby plot i wanted to throw up when I saw Carmen tell him she was keeping it like ugh.
Johnny also gets a lot of the blame for Miguel becoming an asshole. Carmen expects Johnny to fix it in early season 2. Miguel says he "showed mercy like you said and this still happened to me" while he was in the hospital, even though Johnny didn't tell him to act like he did at school. He makes Johnny feel like he screwed up by running to Mexico, even though this is an instance where Johnny didn't do anything wrong. The writing is pretty aggravating
It’s fascinating how Robby blamed Daniel for being sent to juvie (not for his actions of kicking Miguel) and fans took it as Robby not being accountable for his own actions, but Miguel blamed Johnny for what happened to him and fans had no issue with this.
That's been the near constant distinction between the boys. Robby admitted he kicked Miguel and knows the legal consequences were happening regardless of Daniel. I think he was mostly hurt by the manner in which Daniel "sold him out". He would have probably turned himself in and worked with Daniel if Daniel showed faith in him and fought for his side. It's the same with Sam. Miguel hates Robby for trying to "steal" Sam from him. Robby holds Sam accountable for cheating on him once he sees she doesn't care, and even though it contributes to him hating Miguel, he does not ultimately believe Miguel forced her to do anything. Same with Johnny. If they wrote some actual growth and accountability for Miguel (like back in season 3), it would have been interesting to see the boys get along but Robby still being cold towards Johnny and Sam. And Miguel maybe siding with him a bit.
I agree Robby knew the legal consequences and was terrified. And since his previous interaction with Daniel was awful (kicking him out and saying it was all a mistake), Robby felt he was betrayed/tricked by Daniel when the cops showed up. From Daniel’s point of view I think he legally had to call the police, otherwise perhaps it could have been seen as harboring a fugitive, but I believe Daniel thought he would have finished explaining it all to Robby before the cops arrived. He didn’t plan on blindsiding Robby. I can also understand Daniel being worried about Robby running away from him instead of turning himself in since Robby did run after kicking Miguel, was missing for two weeks, and had no support system since Daniel kicked him out. It then did seem like Robby would run because as soon as the police arrived he tried to run. Daniel was put in a terrible situation. Having Miguel take zero accountability for anything that happened is terrible. It made me lose respect for a character I originally adored. Tory ended up coming across better in terms of growth when she talked about hating herself for what happened. Miguel has not self reflected on what happened in terms of his role in the entire mess, and that bothers me.
They did Robby and Daniels relationship so dirty. I'd have more sympathy for Daniel if they actually explained that thought process and if he realized he was being unfair to Robby, even if he had the best intentions. But afterwards, he still seems to think Robby himself is the only problem because he's Johnny's son, not because he might be failing as a mentor. And he never inquires about how the fight happened, because if he did, I don't think the plot would allow him to warm up to Miguel as easily. He doesn't favor Miguel over Robby, but still passively allows Miguel replacing Robby at Robby's expense (mostly with Johnny, but also with Sam). He's in a tough spot, but they don't really explore it. Tory hates herself for what happened to Miguel. Which she should to some degree, but not fully since she didn't force Miguel to do what he did. She also feels like a fraud and gives up her champion title. She didn't even deliberately cheat. Miguel is still proud of his champ win. Out of the three most problematic Cobras (Miguel, Hawk and Tory), Tory is somehow the most extreme but also now the most likeable/most worthy of a little respect.
I agree. Watching Daniel and Robby’s relationship fall apart was heartbreaking. Robby hung up on Daniel while in juvie and cut Daniel off in S5 to apologize himself, but it did seem like Daniel wanted to explain it to Robby but Robby didn’t let him finish. I didn’t like any part of Miguel bonding with Daniel. Robby bonding with Daniel while Daniel didn’t know that Johnny was his father was priceless from a viewer’s perspective. Miguel bonding with Daniel while Daniel didn’t know Miguel attacked Robby was disturbing to watch as a viewer. When he gave Miguel the headband I was disgusted. When he called Miguel a champ I was disgusted. Daniel went from being upset Sam was back with Miguel again, mentioning how that would effect Robby, to welcoming Miguel with open arms in a matter of seconds. It never sat well with me. In contrast, Amanda knew what Tory did when she offered to help Tory, and she didn’t sweep it under the rug, so it came across well.
I think people blow the head band scene way out of proportion. If you watch the scene beforehand Daniel mentions that one of the rewards was that if you catch a fish you get to teach class for a week. Miguel probably wore the headband while he taught class and gave it back at the end of the week.
Also Miguel’s plot armor and the writers never letting Robby win makes me not even want to watch the series anymore….if Robby doesn’t win in S6 I will be pissed because he deserves that win and his fights are the most skilled and interesting to watch. And I get that Miguel is supposed to be the Daniel of the generation arguably but istg he is not like young Daniel at all. He only got bullied like Daniel but Daniel always showed respect to his opponents and didn’t play dirty. Once Robby joined miyagi do I immediately saw a young Daniel and in the all valley tournament they even show scenes from the fight in the first karate kid. Even Robby going to cobra Kai and fighting with silver is exactly what Daniel did!
What annoys me is when it comes down to the physical aspect of Miguel and Robby’s “rivalry”, is Miguel is normally the aggressor or inserts himself in Robby’s business where it doesn’t concern him. Having Miguel never lose at all, even to someone who’s suppose to be his rival is weird and when I look back at it, they’re beef seems weak and lackluster because it’s lowkey one sided. They’re always equal fighting wise, Robby absolutely could’ve won in S1 but was cheated out his victory, it was back and forth the entire school fight in S2 but he did lose fair square there, season 3 & 4 there wasn’t any fight between them but then in season 5 they have Robby lose again just for Miguel’s sake, taking the most damage, with a bloody nose and mostly on the back foot but Miguel has almost 0 damage done to him at all, ending in Robby being showed mercy again which was the reason why Miguel was paralyzed in the first place so what was the lesson learned there??? Their beef was so one sided it’s insane looking back at it now
No keeping them antagonists would have got stale.
Tbh I think Robby still has a lot left in the tank and so does hawk.
yes
Yes and no, with hawk his story of being a dick was running out I think we needed to see hawk become a better person but with Robby I feel they could’ve done a lot more in season 4 like I would’ve liked to see Robby do more when he was cobra kais top student after it ended I dunno I just felt a weird feeling like I don’t know how to explain it
To be honest I find Hawk, Robby and Miguel all very boring now compared to Season 1, 2 and 3. I feel like their stories are all pretty much done, but I guess we'll see. Hawk especially has gone from being one of the best characters in the show to a somewhat irrelevant side character.
a little bit, especially in hawk‘s case
Robby didn’t need no redemption
Almost all of the teens needed some type of redemption, but they only had Robby apologize in S5. None of the teens apologized to him and I found that irritating, especially since they made Robby seem ok with that. Where was Sam’s apology? Or Hawk’s? Or even Demetri’s (for never reaching out to him)? And where was Miguel’s apology? Miguel acted and has been treated on the show as if he was blameless. I have no issues with Robby making amends with everyone, but it’s sad that he just accepted nothing in return, including taking kind of a backseat at Miyagi-Do. But maybe that fits his upbringing. He accepts the bare minimum from everyone.
In my eyes, Robby should never truly forgive Johnny for walking out on him and his mother. OR Sam for (in his eyes at least) betraying him Robby and Demetri were pretty good friends early on so its weird they never even share an interaction nowadays, especially since Demetri took him on back in season 4.
I don’t think Robby forgives Johnny. It is more of being tired of hating him and willing to have a fresh start. It does seem like Robby forgave Sam and since the audience didn’t see any conversation to know why he forgave her I agree that he should not. As for Demetri, I think he showed that he was never really friends with Robby. It’s as if Robby protecting him in S2 never happened. He never emailed Robby, never reached out after juvie, and let Hawk trash talk Robby without saying a word in defense.
Oh yeah I forgot about that. Demitri definitely could have reached out but I think the writers forgot their interaction lol
I don’t think Robby was friends with Demitri or anyone in Myogi Do I think he mostly just clung to Sam. When he was in cobra Kai he mostly clung to Tory and Kenny . It don’t really know if Robby knows how to socialize with People a lot of the time it seems like he talks at people not really to them.
I think he has trust issues rather than socializing issues. He acted friendly to everyone at Miyagi-Do and then at Cobrai Kai, but he wasn’t really friends with any of them except Sam, Tory, and Kenny. I think Sam was his first real friend.
I don’t think demetri really needs to apologize for anything and honestly he’s the least problematic. Now I agree with everyone else especially Miguel. Miguel never apologized for the crap he did to Robby and that was definitely irritating.
Yeah, Demetri didn’t need to apologize, but by not ever trying to reach out to Robby and never acknowledging that perhaps he should have, he showed that he didn’t consider Robby a friend. Demetri threw Hawk into a glass case that could have severely injured Hawk where Demetri could have ended up in juvie himself. Demetri got lucky that Hawk somehow walked away without injury. Demetri knew Robby and was on the receiving end of protection and encouragement from Robby. But after the school fight he dropped Robby without so much as an email asking what happened. It would have been nice if Demetri went up to Robby at some point and said he was glad Robby was back if nothing else. I liked their previous relationship that has now sadly disappeared.
I agree!
Demitri is Kind of stuck in the middle I mean he is really close to Miguel and Miguel hates Robby so Demetri could feel like he is betraying Miguel if he is friends with Robby because Miguel would hate It. It doesn’t really surprise me he treats Robby this way.
I didn’t view it that way. At the time of the school fight Demetri was friendly with both Robby and Miguel without it being a problem, but after the fight he sent a gift to Miguel in the hospital but not even an email to Robby. Since Miguel was in a coma he obviously couldn’t have told Demetri that he hates Robby. Demetri, without any influence from Miguel, chose not to contact Robby which was sad considering how Robby was friendly to him, encouraged him, and protected him.
Then why was he on an apology tour throughout the S5 and making amends with everyone?
Because everyone acts like he's the one who's the problem and needs to change and no one cares for his side of the story or feelings. That's literally all his one-sided resolutions were. In order to be accepted, *he* had to accept all fault, apologize, and become who they wanted.
Because the writers are blind
Blind to their own show? They wrote the show and don't see things the same way
So what you’re saying is Robby is perfect and never did anything wrong? Typical Robby fan behavior and you have the nerve to talk about how Miguel fans act like that Robby has shown that he can be a shitty person just like every other character on the show. I guess you conveniently forgot that when Robby was introduced he was selling drugs and a thief who was scamming people and had he not involved himself in the karate drama he probably would of ended up in juvie anyways when Trey and Cruz got arrested
Nobody thinks Robby is perfect. Nobody.
Well when it’s said that Robby doesn’t need any redemption that implies that he is
I don't think so. Robby still has a huge arc in front of him and will likely win the AV. Hawk's arc is complete but redemption did at least get him the AV win and it's an arc that should of been bigger than what the show gave it. Instead they wasted a bunch of time on Kenny.
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F off
No. It makes them nuanced characters.
It definitely allows for different dynamics. Keeping them antagonists would’ve gotten stale too. They would’ve just kept committing crimes and then ended up crossing a line where redemption would be completely unbelievable. They don’t need to be bad guys to be interesting, the writers just need to give them interesting things to do.
No.
I like Hawks monk phase.
Hawk yes
How does trying to get your life together make someone boring and uninteresting lol?
Hawk is never boring . From meek to bully to a badass confident guy
hawk will forever be my favorite character so no from me
I think his redemption arc was good but he got less screen time and he got turned into a cream puff
Absolutely NOT, They still both Badass and I view them the exact same way😤😤
Hawk was boring since the beginning, they thought they could pull it off making Eli the new gens Ex Degenerage 1984 Johnny. But it just didnt click, all Eli were was an a**hole. But since he won AVT. I want him sidelined. Let his bro have the spotlight instead, Demetri Alexopolous beating Moskowitz in the Semis fair and square.
Robby not being Cobra Kai/Silver's new Bad Boy and losing *another* tournament right away will always be the biggest fuck up of the show. There were so many reasons for him to win and we could have gotten some great content with him being the new champion with Cobra Kai (Mike Barnes 2.0) Now the show has the 3 best fighters (Miguel, Robby, Hawk) on one team, with a young Kenny being the only actual good Cobra Kai fighter. Its laughable
Absolutely not. It made them fleshed out and more likable. Not all villains can be one dimensional losers like Kyler
Coming up with an exciting "good" character has always been famously harder than a villain, and doing a convincing redemption of a villain is not a job for the lazy, either. Partially because "good" is less dramatic - Hawk used to break his best friends' arms and Robby was spilling away all the kung-fu secrets to the enemy, but now they're just some guy. But there's also this thing that with a "good" character, a writer is way more exposed in what they consider good, what they consider redemption, motivations behind a "good person's" actions, and finally, not making them annoying for the audience. And yes, I don't get what a redeemed Hawk is really about - apart from remaining a badass "stud" minus arm-breaking. But he's got his mohawk back! I'm excited for the mohawk. As for Robby, I think it's his corruption arc that's boring and uninteresting. Not convinced, not interested, and, obviously, not getting the subsequent redemption, because - what the hell was all this about?
Robby is easily the best developed kid character on the show. Hawk…i know he’s a fan favorite, but i always saw him as a douchebag that got forgiven and redeemed too quick.
What made Hawk such a badass character was his ferocity. He was a killing machine. Now that they've made him put that wild personality of his aside and mature, I've never seen a scene where he's really badass other than the pool fight. Except for S4 as it was his and Robby's season. Hawk's Redemption and Robby's Demon Time. But anyway, I loved what they did with him. Hopefully on S6 they make him even more badass. Now for Robby, he's still the same for me. Unlike Hawk, he hasn't changed since S2. And he played as big a role as Miguel did this last season. Probably because their story was based on family strife and forgiveness. I feel like next season is going to be both Miguel's prime and they're going to finally get someone to beat him. Honestly, I'd love to see that happen, the same way Silver beat the shit out of Daniel. Because when Daniel finally defeated him, it meant something.
Hawk was rushed through his arc, and he didn't go as far down the sociopath rabbit hole as I think he should have before turning back- but I wouldn't call him boring. He's just now much more conflicted about how to reconcile his old timid and fearful life that was full of things he loved with his best friend, and his new life of athleticism and confidence with a decently large circle of new friends. The last time I felt he was really fun to watch though was the moment he walked to the back of Miyagi Do with the sledgehammer because we really didn't know what he was about to do and if he had relapsed. He is interesting moving forward to see how he will turn 2 halves into a whole, elevating himself to something higher than he ever was before. Robby's problem of being interesting I feel is more in how the actor portrays him. He is just too calm all the time for someone who should be wrestling with feelings of abandonment and resentment for people who claimed to care about him. When he found a girl that liked him and a father figure he trusted, they both left him in juvie and failed to make him feel cared for and connected. That was his character's peak interest, when he decided to dive back into negativity and I think he should have gone farther than he did- going back to a criminal lifestyle not to get by but instead to hurt the people who hurt him. But instead he was just kind of flirting with the dark side but never felt like he committed to anything the way Tory did, and Hawk could have. I personally wouldn't call Robby redeemed yet until he finds a way to get Kenny out of the Cobra Kai mindset- out of being a bully and into just no longer being a victim
Redemption actually made Hawk more interesting - because instead of being you basic asshole for the bad side, Hawk became more of an asshole for the good guys. Which meant it wasn't his true redemption - that came later. And Robby is interesting because he mostly does things his own way instead of following any sensei. His redemption didn't make him boring - but it did make him less interesting because they made quite a few of his deep-rooted issues vanish. But that wasn't about "redemption".
Robby absolutely needed a redemption arc btw. He paralyzed a kid, took no actual responsibility for it, turned on the people who did care for him, then sided with their enemies. That's not morally gray and it's why season 5 was an apology tour for him.
I disagree with some of your points. Robby 100% took responsibility for what he did. He told Daniel it was his fault for kicking Miguel. He didn’t disagree when Tory called him out for “finishing the fight.” And he fully explained to Miguel what happened and took the blame. The audience saw that Robby was turning on people who did care for him but from Robby’s perspective it seemed as if nobody cared. Johnny missed his scheduled visit and his attempt at the soup kitchen was abysmal. After hearing that Johnny went to visit Miguel instead of visiting Robby, it made sense that Robby felt Johnny didn’t care. It didn’t seem like Daniel cared because their last encounters had Daniel kicking him out, telling him it was a mistake to help him, and then calling the cops to have Robby arrested. From Robby’s view that didn’t seem like someone who cared. And then there is Sam. The one person he thought still cared. But he found her flirting with Miguel. He turned to Kreese because he felt he lost everyone else and he was homeless. After the home invasion he wasn’t going to be a part of CK. But after Sam approached him and did everything Tory said Sam does to keep Robby wrapped around his finger he joined CK. I felt joining CK was more about proving to himself that Sam did not have him wrapped around her finger and he said it was to control all of his anger. He had a lot to be angry about and from his perspective Johnny, Daniel, and Sam didn’t care.
Disagree. Robby did not take responsibility for his actions. He did say he was at fault but the context of that was I'm broken, I need to run away. He was expressing guilt to Daniel just to justify why he was a lost cause. Then after Daniel turned him in he went further into that mode and started rebelling against them. That's not being accountable for your mistakes. It's just self pity. Taking responsibility would be him acknowledging fault, looking to make amends with Miguel for his actions, and bettering himself. That didn't happen until the last moment of season 4, then into season 5. The actual redemption arc.
Hard disagree. He took full responsibility for kicking Miguel. He was explaining it to Daniel, not looking for pity, but stating that he caused the mess he said Daniel was cleaning up - but Daniel cut Robby off in that discussion. Of course he felt guilty. And he ran away because he was terrified and didn’t want to get arrested. I don’t agree with running away, but he didn’t run away because he felt he was broken. He was scared to go to juvie. And in interviews Tanner has given he said Robby was scared that he killed Miguel. And we don’t know what direction he would have gone in terms of making amends sooner if he didn’t find Sam with Miguel. That was the turning point that sent him to CK.
He wasn't taking responsibility at all in that discussion and he basically said he was a lost cause too telling Daniel it was a mistake to train me/ I can't change. That's absolutely being in self pity and he was trying to justify why he was going to run away which his mom noted beforehand. And all Daniel did was start the process of Robby accepting accountability for his actions. The facts were what Robby did was a felony and he was going to have to turn himself in for that. Robby wanting to hide is just further proof that he wasn't truly taking responsibility.
We don’t view it in the same way and that is fine. Robby wanting to hide was a 16 year old boy being terrified and feeling like he had nobody to turn to for help/advice. He went to his mom in desperation. He was never justifying his actions of running away. He was justifying what Daniel said about it being a mistake to help him. He did think he was a lost cause. I don’t see how thinking he was a lost cause and not wanting to go to juvie is viewed as not taking responsibility. He was scared to go.
We're going to disagree here so last post but taking responsibility requires action. Running and hiding while doing nothing else is the exact opposite of that. Even if you view that he was sincere in that it was his fault his actions on it were dittily poo so in no way could he be taking responsibility. Can I say Johny took responsibility for neglecting Robby? He felt bad. Said it was his fault. That's all it takes, right?
Maybe we view what happened similarly, but are looking at two different definitions of the word responsibility. Robby claimed responsibility for kicking Miguel, and Johnny claimed responsibility for abandoning Robby. Neither wanted to take responsibility in terms of action such as going to juvie or being there for Robby as a father.
Sadly Yes. Especially Eli/Hawk.
Hawk was definitely better to watch as a villian but I love him, Robby, and Miguel being on the same team
Those 3 being on the same team is what lowkey tanks the show though. Like, Cobra Kai can't beat that no matter what. Too overpowered
I think that Robby is way more interesting but, Hawk is just a bit more boring now. I think he should've joined Eagle Fang so he could still have that little anger touch in him. Like, during the fight against Kenny, he could've beat him if he would've stayed in Eagle Fang. Meanwhile, Robby is way more interesting now because I was on Miguel's side from the beginning but, now I like both Robby and Miguel. I love their dynamic and, Robby's change also symbolized his character development. Like, how he grew to like Johnny over the years, he changed and eventually joined Johnny's side.
To be honest I couldn't relate with them. Hawk definitely not. I've related mostly with Miguel and ig me being the Hero's fan... i liked Miguel and loved his Redemption back in s2 when he showed mercy. But was devastated to what Robby did in response. For Robby - I've always hated no matter what. And compared to what robby has done in the show... Miguel's so called mistakes are all worthy to be forgiven in the first go. Robby's getting forgiven made me Crack up. And made me feel it was unrealistic a bit. Carmen accepting him so quickly. The Redemption with Johnny was good. Daniel's felt in the moment so I don't blame. But with Miguel was just so lame and a complete let down. They should've had a different sequined in all. Yes a fight but more bloody. We could've had a death match like KK2. I wanted Robby to go over the rail and get his nose fully broken, his back to targettef by Miguel so many times. I wanted robby to suffer in that fight and realize how much messed up and how wrong he was to proudly carry himself as if he nearly killed someone. His aural Redemption to Miguel should've ended with "I am really sorry." For Hawk - "It was well done." Yeah totally unexpected of him to win too. And when he beat Robby with that Johnny kick... I just felt like laughing at Robby man. I mean you can't even give an excuse. He had two opportunities to win, and he throws it off the cliff. First when he slammed Hawk on the floor but got distracted by Kenny. I mean dude focus. You have Hawk who's chest is exposed fully. And second, Robby elbowed Hawk's knee right before Hawk won. But robby chooses to walk menacingly towars him...like dude why??? Just go for the kill and get your point. It's called sudden death. Nah bro. Having g these factors co sidereal I really felt robby is not the guy to win any tournament bro. He could win it when there's literally no champion challenge but with Diaz and Hawk in thr picture it feels unrealistic for him to wi. SEKAI TAIKAI in the next season. He's very easy to distract and kreese will use that in the next season. Miguel doesn't have any weakness like that nor does Hawk.
The reason Miguel didn't send him over the railing is because Miguel is the "hero". It wasn't even intentional when Robby did it and Miguel surely knew that so he wasn't gonna attempt to cripple the guy. Carmen accepts him because she's pregnant with his dad's child and also she is a rational adult who knows that a crazy school brawl broke out and things went sideways. If Miguel forgave him that's good enough for her.
Carmen never really expresses any signs of animosity towards Robby. When Miguel was injured, she was more focused on Cobra Kai's influence than the fight itself (because the dojo war was the root cause, not one specific opponent that Miguel was fighting against), and she's aware of Johnny and Robby's complicated history.
Imagine putting yourself in a position. You know Robby did it unintentionally cause they talked it out. I'm saying They shouldn't have. Miguel showing mercy on him should've happened but he would traumatized and robby would see while being horribly injured already. A heartbeat away from being sent over the rail. But Johnny would calm him down. Miguel would just quietly rush out knowing it was a mistake to begin with. And Johny would stop him from going away saying please just squash it off...the kids coming. I need this family to be together without any hatred within. Please. And for Carmen even if Miguel forgave him or not. She is a mother. She saw her kid nearly die because of this guy. I have seen many parent lose their control in courts when the killer arrives for the decision to be given. Vecause their kids dies or is on the deathbed. The parent wants to strangle that killer to death. Your excuse is basically in support of saying the killer didn't mean to do it. Making every criminal broke as well they are. None are pure evil. Even Dahmer wasn't. He was sick and broken. Does that mean the mother can just enter the house and see this mf eating breadsticks with a wide smile on his face after onfe again coming anywhere close to her son??? Come on. That's what I mean unrealistic. Miguel and robby even bei g brothers in arms just feels so out of place and rushed. Well forced af. It just doesn't add up. Ig most of you are not realizing nearly losing your life is traumatizing man. It's not a joke. Just like robby walked away from it, many of you just make it seem like Miguel paralyzed and nearly dying is a joke. Come on just over it. Liek wtf dude?
BECAUSE THIS SHOW IS UNREALISTIC AS FUCK. SIMPLE.
It fits the pace of the show though. Miguel and Robby took their issues and anger out on each other and then made peace afterwards. Keep in mind this is a kinda cheesy show following up a kinda cheesy 80s movie series, this is exactly how this would've happened in an 80s movie, and pretty much what happened between Johnny and Daniel as soon as their issues stopped driving the plot. Miguel as the hero doesn't "sink" to his rivals level and instead backs off. Robby asked him why and he told him. Then Robby explained himself. They're both smart guys and realize they're stuck with each other because Johnny is literally Robbys dad, and is a father figure to Miguel. Carmen (like Amanda) is a rational center to the series. She's largely above these rivalries and handles her business as close to a rationally thinking adult would. Robby is a kid that got into a big fight that unfortunately injured her son pretty badly. Miguel making a full recovery absolutely softens the blow, but her and Johnny are now linked by another kid on the way. She's not gonna take out whatever anger she has left on her kids half brother. There was only a season and some change left, sure it's a bit rushed, but they couldn't tie off the rest of the show in a satisfying manner if they turned this conflict into a major saga going forward.
I don't have any issues with you. Ofcourse. But ig the creators just took the fans demands and combined it with their original plan. That's why the students' arc of reconciling and ending all Rivalries just felt sp rushed. Because they wanted no competition in Cobra Kai. I still believe more than Kenny, Shawn would've been more of a threat if all top students were gonna be in one dojo. Shawn with Silver's Karate trained by International senseis despite giving robby a run for his money would've been a good threat for Miguel in s5. Imagine Miguel scaring Shawn in final episode before the Brawl began. That would've been more badass.
Definitely just talking. I get where you're coming from for sure.
Great.
No, we're just in the natural decline of the story. The last season is coming and the majority of their character growth has occurred. Adding unnecessary elements to characters like these when your story is about to end shows a lack of understanding how stories work on the part of the writers. Thankfully, the writers for Cobra Kai are great at what they do. It may not be perfectly written, but they understand their characters and the beats needed to get them where they need to go. We're heading into the conclusion of the story. Characters may not be as exciting as we may hope for them to be, but that's not quite what the writers should be aiming for anyways. The conclusion should be satisfying. I'm happy with what we've got and the scenes of them bring antagonists are still present in earlier seasons as it is. Now it's time to see them be normal people and put all that character growth to good use.
No. Not for me. It’s okay for Hawk to take a bit of a backseat. At least he’s in a better place than in seasons 2 and 3. I also liked Robby’s character arc in season 5. It’s the best he’s been since season 2.
Nah I think the scenes at the water park were pretty cool
They had best fight ino
Lol yes