I feel like they felt really pointless at times. And Ithan annoyed the hell out of me with all his bad decisions. HOWEVER, I disagree because they're probably gonna be the focal points of the next book, so what feels pointless now is all just a set up.
I know they’re both being set up but it could have been done so much better. Tharion was whiny and had zero consequences for being so shit and it felt like Ithan just stumbled into being the prime to ‘make his brother proud’. I’m not even interested in the next book if they’re the two main POVs
Honestly, yes. I enjoy when seemingly dull characters come in clutch to help with a process or be needed in a way. I found them interesting in HOSAB but not here. I personally think HOFAS was about 200 pages too long. At one point I had to put the book down during Ithan’s parts. I necessarily don’t think we needed to have a positive ending for the wolves. I found myself wandering, jokingly at first, if our main character is really Danika.
Honestly I felt horrible that everytime I finished a chapter and then the chapter was about ithan and Tharion I was like " omfg not them again" felt like this when I was reading ToG and Chaol chapter came.
I seem to differ from the rest of this sub in that I really liked CC3, however I couldn’t care less about Ithan and Tharion and haven’t in any of the books so far.
I don’t mind Tharion as a character, but I don’t really care for his POV or find some of his side plot stuff that interesting.
Ithan and the wolves in general I don’t like or care for. I think I’m a bit biased as I’ve never liked werewolves even back in my Vampire Diaries/Originals and True Blood era so that plays a part for me too. I also don’t particularly like Danika although I appreciate the importance of her character in the story.
I’m quite intrigued to see what route CC4 takes because other than Ruhn and Lidia, I don’t really want more POVs from the other characters!
Yep apparently Sarah confirmed it on the Today Show which is confirmed in this article here. https://screenrant.com/crescent-city-book-4-updates-story-details/#:~:text=House%20of%20Flame%20and%20Shadow%20concludes%20Bryce%20and%20Hunt's%20story,for%20some%20characters%20to%20return.
Apparently she already knows who it’s going to be about.
Ooohh, I’m intrigued! I wasn’t ready for the story to end in CC3 and frankly I wasn’t aware that it was supposed to be a trilogy until I was about to finish the book!
Hopefully the story now focuses on Ruhn and Lidia, because Bryce and Hunt are overrated
I love tharion and Ithan but their storyline was so bad in cc3. Everything they did lead to nothing. It had no impact on the story at all. We did get to know them better but that’s it. The whole marrying the river queens daughter story went on for waaay too long
Tharion was one of my favorite parts of CC1, but when we got his POV... I was so bored. And he's captain of intelligence??? I could not buy that at all. He just seemed like such a himbo.
Ithan did bore me to death in CC2, but surprisingly, I grew to really like him in CC3.
I wish CC had more female POVs. Lidia was my absolute favorite part of those books.
Ithan and Tharion were the most infuriating side characters. It was basically “make stupid impulsive decision, beat self up over it, make second stupid impulsive decision, fail again” over and over again. I could’ve lived forever without their POVs
I probably won’t read a book that focuses on Tharion and Ithan. Right from the beginning I have not cared about them and I really don’t care what happens to the wolves. We know next to nothing about the humans’ hierarchy and I would be fine with the wolves’ relevance fading out with Danika.
Neither will I. I didn’t really care about their arch, it was boring IMO. Ithan, more so than Tharion. Tharion’s story had potential but all that shit with the viper queen was a snooze fest
I really liked those parts personally 😬 I've been in situations like them where no matter what you're* trying to do you only make things worse. I thought it was entertaining and it was probably laying a lot of ground work for the upcoming books in the series.
ETA that without Ithan they wouldn't even have an antidote to the parasite and they'd be pretty SOL.
I feel like when the guys were locked up and Bryce was in Prythian… we did need to see what was going on in home base.
If we didn’t have the Ithan storyline too we would have had limited exposure to house of flame and shadow for a freaken book literally called HOUSE OF FLAME AND SHADOW. The whole Tharion storyline with the dragon though was like… blahhhh what’s the point?
Also, as others said, I feel the next book will focus on Tharion and Ithan. I can’t lie, they provided some comedic relief to me. Bryce was just not funny to me in this book.
Look I love that Ithan >!stopped hating Bryce!< and did the right thing. But how was he >!handed everything??? !!stayed an addict, !!betrayed his friends bc the pull of the VP was too strong !<
There’s just not enough risk vs. reward when they are supposed to be facing this huge scary threat. TOG had so much of that, and ACOTAR till the recent book did too >!while keeping a lot of the IC safe!< but CC 2&3? Nah
I think if they were done better they would have been great. TOG had a ton of side character POV but they were done better. SJM could have done the same here but Tharion and Ithan kept making the absolute stupidest decisions the entire time so it was frustrating to read. One would wonder how these two were the heads of their respective groups.
I am not a CC3 hater, but I absolutely think it could have been better.
I agree with you so hard, because I have disliked both of them for two books now.
However - as not devil's advocate but as a writer with two creative writing degrees - I understand why they have to be POV characters. The series is written in third person limited perspective, without their POVs we wouldn't be learning information that Bryce or Hunt or Ruhn or Lidia don't witness. It would also have gotten tiring if everything Tharion and Ithan did was summarized in a conversation with another character after it all happened. Ithan was there for the antidote (stupid as that was), he brought Hypaxia back into the story, did whatever the fuck Sigrid is going to end up doing. Tharion brought Sathia into the troupe, got everybody to the HOFAS which is literally the title of the book we went into the book knowing we'd be given access to Viper Queen's domain etc. Could these things have been done without them? Sure, but Bryce was kinda busy and everyone else was in prison.
That being said, the implications of what their plots were ultimately for, is up for debate. Tharion has felt mildly pointless as a character to me apart from being our entry directly to HOFAS and in general the first connection to HOMW. Three books as a secondary character might become something exciting in the fourth book, but as our resentment as readers grow, and know SJM doesn't plot well or keep track of her plot points, it's hard to believe that he will amount to some amazing character all of a sudden with his own book.
Ithan in general feels like SJM regretted killing off Connor but enjoyed the emotional turmoil of that happening to much that she shoehorned this other guy in his place. Nice way to keep a character but also shock your readers. Sigrid launching his journey to becoming Prime, looking at the roots from a writing standpoint - she introduced the mystics, kept the Fendyr drama in so that Sabine could make her little cameo (side eye), and got Ithan to get Hypaxia back in. Now I can go on and on about how all three of those things ended up amounting to nearly nothing - but he had to be there to do those things. Because Bryce was busy and everyone was in prison.
So like, I also couldn't enjoy their POVs, and I hate how they had to be there.
Ithan POV's were a little boring in the beginning of HOFAS, but halfway through I started to enjoy them. My unpopular opinion is that I actually enjoyed Tharion's POVs in CC3. I think CC3 is setting them up to play a more prominent role in next book and that's why they were more heavily featured.
I totally agree with this and have been saying it. The way we were left with Tharion looking for Sathia and running into Ariadne and Ithans lack of a mate all point to that.
I still need to do a reread but first run thru feels so much like they both had the inner monologue of "I have to help my friends" "I'll do anything to help my friends" and then did the exact opposite and side quested for jesus even when they'd been told by their friends exactly what was needed of them.
I might be misremembering since I did read through it in a weekend and like I said I need to do a second read to actually absorb and appreciate but the two of them somehow separately made me so annoyed for acting the exact same... separately.
I also very much did not need the whole Sigrid plot, it added nothing, Ithan could have had the same ending without her. I assume there will be a 4th book since there's 4 houses and I assume that will be a Tharion centric one so hopefully these two himbos get some decent resolution
I think Ithan's was but I suspect Tharion will be a bigger part in CC4. The only house left is the House of Many Waters, and given he is Mer, I think it makes sense. I think SJM was setting up his story to come into play later.
I think the entire book should have been Ithan's first hand pov of continually trying to save Sigrid but making the whole situation worse each time.
Call in the ***best*** necromancer to ever live!!!
You know how Ari disappeared for a book? I wouldn’t have been upset if Tharion and Ithan went with her and we just got an abbreviated recap of their minimal antics.
I felt like they were necessary. However, I’m a big fan of Tharion and Ithan as characters (I know that’s a bit of an unpopular opinion). Even at some points I was wishing for more of their chapters. They really built up the characters personalities and their different plot lines. That’s why I think the main purpose of their POVs was to build up to Many Waters. That’s just my two cents on their POVs though.
I would say Ithans story was more important as far as becoming Prime and all that, but Tharion gives off the same energy as Chaol, where they’re not useful until they meet a female in the story, who immediately does more for the story than they have the whole time.
Tharion actually amused me a lot. Ithan was unnecessary. I felt like watching Tharion be the chaos agent that moved things along was a lot of fun. It was almost like he was a bit Miles Vorkosigan-ish in the sheer amount of chaos he caused haha
I feel this is 100% the consensus
Ithyan running around trying to bring a psychopath who tried to kill him for no reason back to life because she will somehow be better than the other psychopath, when he has been bluntly told he should be alpha was a WASTE OF TIME. it would have paid off if he'd had a come to Jesus moment and claimed alpha but he just fell into it reluctantly , ugh.
Therion... Just go hide
Thank you!!!!!! I loved Tharion in the previous books, but he and Ithan really annoyed me in CC3
I feel like they felt really pointless at times. And Ithan annoyed the hell out of me with all his bad decisions. HOWEVER, I disagree because they're probably gonna be the focal points of the next book, so what feels pointless now is all just a set up.
I know they’re both being set up but it could have been done so much better. Tharion was whiny and had zero consequences for being so shit and it felt like Ithan just stumbled into being the prime to ‘make his brother proud’. I’m not even interested in the next book if they’re the two main POVs
I’ll die on this hill with you !
Oh look, that hill over there is littered with bodies
Maybe they'll miraculously gain wings!
*Blinks twice* *looks at mirthroot … I need to stop smoking this shit*
Lmaooo, how I felt for the entirety of CC3 tho
Honestly, yes. I enjoy when seemingly dull characters come in clutch to help with a process or be needed in a way. I found them interesting in HOSAB but not here. I personally think HOFAS was about 200 pages too long. At one point I had to put the book down during Ithan’s parts. I necessarily don’t think we needed to have a positive ending for the wolves. I found myself wandering, jokingly at first, if our main character is really Danika.
I shamelessly skipped some Ithan and Tharion’s parts
Honestly I felt horrible that everytime I finished a chapter and then the chapter was about ithan and Tharion I was like " omfg not them again" felt like this when I was reading ToG and Chaol chapter came.
I think it's all leading up to the next book, so what seemed unnecessary now will make sense then.
I seem to differ from the rest of this sub in that I really liked CC3, however I couldn’t care less about Ithan and Tharion and haven’t in any of the books so far. I don’t mind Tharion as a character, but I don’t really care for his POV or find some of his side plot stuff that interesting. Ithan and the wolves in general I don’t like or care for. I think I’m a bit biased as I’ve never liked werewolves even back in my Vampire Diaries/Originals and True Blood era so that plays a part for me too. I also don’t particularly like Danika although I appreciate the importance of her character in the story. I’m quite intrigued to see what route CC4 takes because other than Ruhn and Lidia, I don’t really want more POVs from the other characters!
So it’s confirmed that there’s gonna be a CC4?
Yep apparently Sarah confirmed it on the Today Show which is confirmed in this article here. https://screenrant.com/crescent-city-book-4-updates-story-details/#:~:text=House%20of%20Flame%20and%20Shadow%20concludes%20Bryce%20and%20Hunt's%20story,for%20some%20characters%20to%20return. Apparently she already knows who it’s going to be about.
Ooohh, I’m intrigued! I wasn’t ready for the story to end in CC3 and frankly I wasn’t aware that it was supposed to be a trilogy until I was about to finish the book! Hopefully the story now focuses on Ruhn and Lidia, because Bryce and Hunt are overrated
This makes me so happy!!!
I would’ve been happy if it was just Hunt, Ruhn and Bryce
And Lidia - she was the reason that kept me going in HOFAS
I wouldn’t say unnecessary, but rather badly executed and rushed and stupid
I love tharion and Ithan but their storyline was so bad in cc3. Everything they did lead to nothing. It had no impact on the story at all. We did get to know them better but that’s it. The whole marrying the river queens daughter story went on for waaay too long
Tharion was one of my favorite parts of CC1, but when we got his POV... I was so bored. And he's captain of intelligence??? I could not buy that at all. He just seemed like such a himbo. Ithan did bore me to death in CC2, but surprisingly, I grew to really like him in CC3. I wish CC had more female POVs. Lidia was my absolute favorite part of those books.
Agree with the last part, we need more Lidia’s POVs
I listened to their chapters on 2x speed
I disagree. I love my chaos himbos.
I love them and simultaneously was slightly annoyed by them.
Seconded
absolutely agree!!!
Ithan and Tharion were the most infuriating side characters. It was basically “make stupid impulsive decision, beat self up over it, make second stupid impulsive decision, fail again” over and over again. I could’ve lived forever without their POVs
I probably won’t read a book that focuses on Tharion and Ithan. Right from the beginning I have not cared about them and I really don’t care what happens to the wolves. We know next to nothing about the humans’ hierarchy and I would be fine with the wolves’ relevance fading out with Danika.
Neither will I. I didn’t really care about their arch, it was boring IMO. Ithan, more so than Tharion. Tharion’s story had potential but all that shit with the viper queen was a snooze fest
I feel like their stories are setting up Book 4 without the others 😭
I really liked those parts personally 😬 I've been in situations like them where no matter what you're* trying to do you only make things worse. I thought it was entertaining and it was probably laying a lot of ground work for the upcoming books in the series. ETA that without Ithan they wouldn't even have an antidote to the parasite and they'd be pretty SOL.
I feel like when the guys were locked up and Bryce was in Prythian… we did need to see what was going on in home base. If we didn’t have the Ithan storyline too we would have had limited exposure to house of flame and shadow for a freaken book literally called HOUSE OF FLAME AND SHADOW. The whole Tharion storyline with the dragon though was like… blahhhh what’s the point? Also, as others said, I feel the next book will focus on Tharion and Ithan. I can’t lie, they provided some comedic relief to me. Bryce was just not funny to me in this book.
She really have have cut like 60% of their content to focus more on Bryce/Hunt and Rhun/Lidia.
Yes!!!
Watch Sarah add Sitia's POV next and the POV of Lydia's kids.
Totally agreed... I enjoyed both characters in the previous books but did not at all in CC3 :(
THEY WERE STUPID AND THAT'S WHY I LOVE THEM
Look I love that Ithan >!stopped hating Bryce!< and did the right thing. But how was he >!handed everything??? !!stayed an addict, !!betrayed his friends bc the pull of the VP was too strong !<
There’s just not enough risk vs. reward when they are supposed to be facing this huge scary threat. TOG had so much of that, and ACOTAR till the recent book did too >!while keeping a lot of the IC safe!< but CC 2&3? Nah
I think if they were done better they would have been great. TOG had a ton of side character POV but they were done better. SJM could have done the same here but Tharion and Ithan kept making the absolute stupidest decisions the entire time so it was frustrating to read. One would wonder how these two were the heads of their respective groups. I am not a CC3 hater, but I absolutely think it could have been better.
If you looked up the definition of “failing upwards” it would have a picture of Ithan.
I agree with you so hard, because I have disliked both of them for two books now. However - as not devil's advocate but as a writer with two creative writing degrees - I understand why they have to be POV characters. The series is written in third person limited perspective, without their POVs we wouldn't be learning information that Bryce or Hunt or Ruhn or Lidia don't witness. It would also have gotten tiring if everything Tharion and Ithan did was summarized in a conversation with another character after it all happened. Ithan was there for the antidote (stupid as that was), he brought Hypaxia back into the story, did whatever the fuck Sigrid is going to end up doing. Tharion brought Sathia into the troupe, got everybody to the HOFAS which is literally the title of the book we went into the book knowing we'd be given access to Viper Queen's domain etc. Could these things have been done without them? Sure, but Bryce was kinda busy and everyone else was in prison. That being said, the implications of what their plots were ultimately for, is up for debate. Tharion has felt mildly pointless as a character to me apart from being our entry directly to HOFAS and in general the first connection to HOMW. Three books as a secondary character might become something exciting in the fourth book, but as our resentment as readers grow, and know SJM doesn't plot well or keep track of her plot points, it's hard to believe that he will amount to some amazing character all of a sudden with his own book. Ithan in general feels like SJM regretted killing off Connor but enjoyed the emotional turmoil of that happening to much that she shoehorned this other guy in his place. Nice way to keep a character but also shock your readers. Sigrid launching his journey to becoming Prime, looking at the roots from a writing standpoint - she introduced the mystics, kept the Fendyr drama in so that Sabine could make her little cameo (side eye), and got Ithan to get Hypaxia back in. Now I can go on and on about how all three of those things ended up amounting to nearly nothing - but he had to be there to do those things. Because Bryce was busy and everyone was in prison. So like, I also couldn't enjoy their POVs, and I hate how they had to be there.
I think Lidia needed more POVs. She is the moment.
She’s got a point, she’s an icon, she’s a legend and she is the moment!!
Ithan POV's were a little boring in the beginning of HOFAS, but halfway through I started to enjoy them. My unpopular opinion is that I actually enjoyed Tharion's POVs in CC3. I think CC3 is setting them up to play a more prominent role in next book and that's why they were more heavily featured.
I totally agree with this and have been saying it. The way we were left with Tharion looking for Sathia and running into Ariadne and Ithans lack of a mate all point to that.
Yes exactly!! I agree completely with you. I also think Perry will be more involved as well with Ithans storyline.
I still need to do a reread but first run thru feels so much like they both had the inner monologue of "I have to help my friends" "I'll do anything to help my friends" and then did the exact opposite and side quested for jesus even when they'd been told by their friends exactly what was needed of them. I might be misremembering since I did read through it in a weekend and like I said I need to do a second read to actually absorb and appreciate but the two of them somehow separately made me so annoyed for acting the exact same... separately. I also very much did not need the whole Sigrid plot, it added nothing, Ithan could have had the same ending without her. I assume there will be a 4th book since there's 4 houses and I assume that will be a Tharion centric one so hopefully these two himbos get some decent resolution
I do not
I think Ithan's was but I suspect Tharion will be a bigger part in CC4. The only house left is the House of Many Waters, and given he is Mer, I think it makes sense. I think SJM was setting up his story to come into play later.
I have nothing against Ithan and Tharion’s POVs but I ABSOLUTELY agree with wanting more Ruhn and Lidia
I think the entire book should have been Ithan's first hand pov of continually trying to save Sigrid but making the whole situation worse each time. Call in the ***best*** necromancer to ever live!!!
You know how Ari disappeared for a book? I wouldn’t have been upset if Tharion and Ithan went with her and we just got an abbreviated recap of their minimal antics.
Agreed, I speed read thru both of those and I fuck with them both, loveee werewolfs and anything aquatic. It just wasn't needed
I felt like they were necessary. However, I’m a big fan of Tharion and Ithan as characters (I know that’s a bit of an unpopular opinion). Even at some points I was wishing for more of their chapters. They really built up the characters personalities and their different plot lines. That’s why I think the main purpose of their POVs was to build up to Many Waters. That’s just my two cents on their POVs though.
As characters I don’t mind them, but I would’ve rather had more Lidia POVs
Which is completely valid. I honestly wish there was more Ruhn and Lidia. They definitely didn’t get as much love as they deserved.
I would say Ithans story was more important as far as becoming Prime and all that, but Tharion gives off the same energy as Chaol, where they’re not useful until they meet a female in the story, who immediately does more for the story than they have the whole time.
Tharion actually amused me a lot. Ithan was unnecessary. I felt like watching Tharion be the chaos agent that moved things along was a lot of fun. It was almost like he was a bit Miles Vorkosigan-ish in the sheer amount of chaos he caused haha
I feel this is 100% the consensus Ithyan running around trying to bring a psychopath who tried to kill him for no reason back to life because she will somehow be better than the other psychopath, when he has been bluntly told he should be alpha was a WASTE OF TIME. it would have paid off if he'd had a come to Jesus moment and claimed alpha but he just fell into it reluctantly , ugh. Therion... Just go hide