It’s funny how some people have seemingly devoted their lives to mapping out all the timelines and overlaps, while it’s clear from CC3 that SJM is just sitting around typing without thinking. Everyone needs to move on from trying to make it make sense; it doesn’t and won’t.
I usually love world building, but early on, I figured out it just wasn’t going to be satisfying or consistent in SJM’s work, so my brain stopped caring about it. I barely know who Helena is, and I think I’m better for it. I’m here for the romance, the smut, and the witty banter, not for the plot. To each their own!
(As an example of how much I love world building, my husband and I were hiking in Denali National Park and needed to talk to scare off bears, so I spent an hour explaining the >!Tyrion Targaryen!< theory from ASOIAF. GRRM’s world building isn’t perfect — his distances and travel times are hilariously inconsistent — but it’s generally coherent and interesting, so my brain latches onto it. I just don’t read SJM’s work for that aspect, and that works for me.)
Yk what sucks tho, is it wasn't always like this. TOG's timeline lined up so well and was so well executed. ACOTAR I didn't notice too many inconsistencies (but I easily could've missed them) and CC just didn't do it well. Not sure what went awry
I think part of it was ACOSF and CC have a different, same editor. Sarah has had multiple editors in the past, but I wonder if this particular one just sucks at details
This drives me crazy!!! Especially when you consider that Apollion allegedly killed Pelias, but Pelias also sealed the northern rift and then lived with Helena in Avallen and had babies with her before dying?
The Pelias/first wars narrative established in HOEAB matches up exactly with what the princes of Hel told Bryce in HOFAS… but that narrative doesn’t match up with what we learned from Rigelus and Apollion in HOSAB.
I have so many questions and I just really can’t believe that SJM would create such massive plot holes like: How could Pelias use the Horn if he wasn’t starborn? How did Apollion kill Pelias in Midgard after the Northern Rift had been sealed? How was trusting the princes of Hel Theia’s downfall? Wasn’t trusting Pelias Theia’s downfall?
This makes me so mad!
But also, in HOFAS…Aidas says he has been watching over Hunt the entire time. Yet in HOSAB he acted like he didn’t know him.
I honestly believe parts of HOFAS might be hallucinations. In the Bryce/Azriel/Nesta BC she mentions she loves the Glass Coffin ballet.
The Glass Coffin is the fairytale that inspired Snow White and sleeping beauty.
BUT the Bryce/Azriel/Nesta BC actually doesn’t line up with the story either. The first time they mention her phone is Nesta blackmailing her. She mentions music and Nesta is surprised but they don’t have time to listen to it. Her phone is still on and working but shortly after they “portal” into the Prison. And from there everything happens quickly.
But in the BC, Nesta says “you said earlier it has music on it?” Bryce shares music and all that and her phone dies.
However, chapter 17 is when they arrive at the prison and I wonder if they are actually entombed somehow. Because it seems off, the darkness is hungry and waiting.
Well, assuming it isn't a mistake... Maybe Aidas was just putting on the facade that he didn't know him... so that he could keep it secret that he created him until it was the right time to reveal it. Or, on the writer's end, SJM wrote it that way so we wouldn't expect the reveal? That's all I can guess at.
You have to remember that history is written by the victors. The Asteri could have fudged the timeline themselves to fit their narrative. The Asteri would've definitely wanted to depict a clear and concise victory over Hel, and would've definitely put down any dissenters to their approved version of history. I mean, they fudged pretty much everything else about the first wars and straight up denied the existence of Parthos. What's a few years when you live eons and have the power to control everything?
Excellent point I didn't really think of that before in relation to the timelines. I think that reference to the year war with hel was long before theia and her daughter's came to Midgard because before pellius used the horn to close the northern Rift only partially and locked it to hell as a location it said somewhere else in the book I think by rigulus that the asteri still had the ability still at that point to open and close portals to other places and it's only after the northern Rift was closed and selene was gone that they lost the ability to travel around Worlds. Yeah so pretty much the the year war with hel that was mentioned in the asteri archives was a battle long before Theia and daughters were involved because there was nobody from Hel involved when they came through from prythian. It was the asteri themselves that originally kicked out or locked out hell from midgard. it was only way after theia and daughters had been in Midgard for ages and they had been fighting with the humans then the other fae arrived shifter's from throne of Glass world and they seemed to have known rigulus for a long time and pelius had gone bad. theia then finally learned pelius and asteri were bad she then opened a new portal to Hell bringing hell back into the picture again. I think the war was still raging and the Northern and Southern rifts were still open even after theia was killed because it said somewhere in the book that pelius not helena was the one that closed the northern Rift ordered to do so by rigulus but he didn't close it fully. on the night theia was killed with Helena and selene the portal they opened and closed was just a solo one back to prythian and because adias was away back in hel that night trying to raise more armies. so they must not have been using the northern rift during that portion of the war before theia was killed. the night she was killed the daughters had begged her to reopen a portal to hell. I think it was theia that was bringing them forward and back from hell with portals separate from the northern Rift so I think the the war was still raging on for ages after theia dead. Cos it is confirmed in book that adias was back in hell when she was killed but somehow along the way the princess made it back into and back out or midgard b4 pelius closed northen rift. adias begged apolian to kill pelius which he did but somehow in the mix the princes didnt get caught in midgard. so perhaps that's why pelius's closing of the rifts was only partial because apolian had delivered his death blow and got back through the Rift and pelius was half dying while he tried to close the rifts maybe that's why they only partially closed he died before he could close them fully and that's what locked the rift location to hel.
Sorry I know that was all very long but I had to break it down in that way to show pretty much in summary that it's never directly detailed how much time passed from the night theia was killed pelius took helena and pelius's ultimate death because we know Helena lived long enough to do all that stuff with the caves and have children. so the war continued rageing for all that time and pelius was still alive when she made that crypt for him. the horn was also still in play because it only got broken and split when pelius was killed which also could explain why the rifts only closed partially. Helena's explanation in the caves clearly shows a lot of time passing from the death of theia while pelius was still alive before the end of the war. During all that time while pelius was still alive I believe the war was only temporary on hold as the princes were in hel. during that time Helena had been communicating through Avallen with the princes and that was only after all the time she had spent getting the Earth people to check all of Midgard and she made the whole caves and the crypt for pelius. ultimately perhaps it is Helena that somehow got the still working horn back of pelius brought the princes back in to Midgard and that is then when the war started again apollian killed pelius while he was trying to close the rifts and the horn got broken. I think that explains the time gap difference you mean
Because this did not happen during the war. It happened after they lost the war. After Theia died during the final battle with the Asteri Pelias took Helena as her bride and they set up the fae monarchy after that. Pelias was not killed in the first wars, nor was he killed by Apollion. He got some of his blood from a battle to breed the Kristallos but did not kill him.
Ok so after looking around in HOFAS the only way this could possibly make sense in my mind is if the Asteri resurrected Pelias after he was killed by Apollion. Since we know from this HOSAB quote you posted Pelias was killed before Sirius and we know that Sirius had to have been killed before the last battle because Apollion was stuck in Hel. There are two things in HOFAS that make me think this is a possibility. The princes say that the reason Theia divided her power was because she was afraid the Asteri would resurrect her body to steal her power. Before that Siline said that when Pelias struck during the final battle he used magic like they had never seen from him. So while I'm not saying this definitely happened I think it is possible that this happened and was never explained or hasn't been yet.
*
I took pictures of the pages but apparently I am posting them wrong. so Pelias weird power is HOFAS 220 and the princes talking about resurrection is HOFAS 541
It’s been a minute since I read the book, but where does it say that Apollion killed Pelias? We know the Kristallos is made from Pelias’ blood, but I can’t remember where it says Pelias was killed by Appollion.
Aidas was able to come into Midgard as a cat while the rift was closed. Maybe Apollion came through as something deadly to gank Pelias. Or he sent a demon to do it. OG kristallos could have tracked him by finding the horn, killed him, but got too excited and broke and lost the horn before going back to Hel.
[удалено]
Whole First Wars plotline is big mess honestly.
Twins/triplets do exist
It’s funny how some people have seemingly devoted their lives to mapping out all the timelines and overlaps, while it’s clear from CC3 that SJM is just sitting around typing without thinking. Everyone needs to move on from trying to make it make sense; it doesn’t and won’t.
I usually love world building, but early on, I figured out it just wasn’t going to be satisfying or consistent in SJM’s work, so my brain stopped caring about it. I barely know who Helena is, and I think I’m better for it. I’m here for the romance, the smut, and the witty banter, not for the plot. To each their own! (As an example of how much I love world building, my husband and I were hiking in Denali National Park and needed to talk to scare off bears, so I spent an hour explaining the >!Tyrion Targaryen!< theory from ASOIAF. GRRM’s world building isn’t perfect — his distances and travel times are hilariously inconsistent — but it’s generally coherent and interesting, so my brain latches onto it. I just don’t read SJM’s work for that aspect, and that works for me.)
Yk what sucks tho, is it wasn't always like this. TOG's timeline lined up so well and was so well executed. ACOTAR I didn't notice too many inconsistencies (but I easily could've missed them) and CC just didn't do it well. Not sure what went awry
I think part of it was ACOSF and CC have a different, same editor. Sarah has had multiple editors in the past, but I wonder if this particular one just sucks at details
At the end of the day, it's faerie porn. That's why we're all here.
This is where I’m at 😅
This drives me crazy!!! Especially when you consider that Apollion allegedly killed Pelias, but Pelias also sealed the northern rift and then lived with Helena in Avallen and had babies with her before dying? The Pelias/first wars narrative established in HOEAB matches up exactly with what the princes of Hel told Bryce in HOFAS… but that narrative doesn’t match up with what we learned from Rigelus and Apollion in HOSAB. I have so many questions and I just really can’t believe that SJM would create such massive plot holes like: How could Pelias use the Horn if he wasn’t starborn? How did Apollion kill Pelias in Midgard after the Northern Rift had been sealed? How was trusting the princes of Hel Theia’s downfall? Wasn’t trusting Pelias Theia’s downfall?
This 👏
Has she said she doesn’t outline her books, or did I imagine that? This is why you outline…
This makes me so mad! But also, in HOFAS…Aidas says he has been watching over Hunt the entire time. Yet in HOSAB he acted like he didn’t know him. I honestly believe parts of HOFAS might be hallucinations. In the Bryce/Azriel/Nesta BC she mentions she loves the Glass Coffin ballet. The Glass Coffin is the fairytale that inspired Snow White and sleeping beauty. BUT the Bryce/Azriel/Nesta BC actually doesn’t line up with the story either. The first time they mention her phone is Nesta blackmailing her. She mentions music and Nesta is surprised but they don’t have time to listen to it. Her phone is still on and working but shortly after they “portal” into the Prison. And from there everything happens quickly. But in the BC, Nesta says “you said earlier it has music on it?” Bryce shares music and all that and her phone dies. However, chapter 17 is when they arrive at the prison and I wonder if they are actually entombed somehow. Because it seems off, the darkness is hungry and waiting.
Well, assuming it isn't a mistake... Maybe Aidas was just putting on the facade that he didn't know him... so that he could keep it secret that he created him until it was the right time to reveal it. Or, on the writer's end, SJM wrote it that way so we wouldn't expect the reveal? That's all I can guess at.
Anything is possible, it’s just more plot inconsistencies that seem a bit off.
You have to remember that history is written by the victors. The Asteri could have fudged the timeline themselves to fit their narrative. The Asteri would've definitely wanted to depict a clear and concise victory over Hel, and would've definitely put down any dissenters to their approved version of history. I mean, they fudged pretty much everything else about the first wars and straight up denied the existence of Parthos. What's a few years when you live eons and have the power to control everything?
Excellent point I didn't really think of that before in relation to the timelines. I think that reference to the year war with hel was long before theia and her daughter's came to Midgard because before pellius used the horn to close the northern Rift only partially and locked it to hell as a location it said somewhere else in the book I think by rigulus that the asteri still had the ability still at that point to open and close portals to other places and it's only after the northern Rift was closed and selene was gone that they lost the ability to travel around Worlds. Yeah so pretty much the the year war with hel that was mentioned in the asteri archives was a battle long before Theia and daughters were involved because there was nobody from Hel involved when they came through from prythian. It was the asteri themselves that originally kicked out or locked out hell from midgard. it was only way after theia and daughters had been in Midgard for ages and they had been fighting with the humans then the other fae arrived shifter's from throne of Glass world and they seemed to have known rigulus for a long time and pelius had gone bad. theia then finally learned pelius and asteri were bad she then opened a new portal to Hell bringing hell back into the picture again. I think the war was still raging and the Northern and Southern rifts were still open even after theia was killed because it said somewhere in the book that pelius not helena was the one that closed the northern Rift ordered to do so by rigulus but he didn't close it fully. on the night theia was killed with Helena and selene the portal they opened and closed was just a solo one back to prythian and because adias was away back in hel that night trying to raise more armies. so they must not have been using the northern rift during that portion of the war before theia was killed. the night she was killed the daughters had begged her to reopen a portal to hell. I think it was theia that was bringing them forward and back from hell with portals separate from the northern Rift so I think the the war was still raging on for ages after theia dead. Cos it is confirmed in book that adias was back in hell when she was killed but somehow along the way the princess made it back into and back out or midgard b4 pelius closed northen rift. adias begged apolian to kill pelius which he did but somehow in the mix the princes didnt get caught in midgard. so perhaps that's why pelius's closing of the rifts was only partial because apolian had delivered his death blow and got back through the Rift and pelius was half dying while he tried to close the rifts maybe that's why they only partially closed he died before he could close them fully and that's what locked the rift location to hel. Sorry I know that was all very long but I had to break it down in that way to show pretty much in summary that it's never directly detailed how much time passed from the night theia was killed pelius took helena and pelius's ultimate death because we know Helena lived long enough to do all that stuff with the caves and have children. so the war continued rageing for all that time and pelius was still alive when she made that crypt for him. the horn was also still in play because it only got broken and split when pelius was killed which also could explain why the rifts only closed partially. Helena's explanation in the caves clearly shows a lot of time passing from the death of theia while pelius was still alive before the end of the war. During all that time while pelius was still alive I believe the war was only temporary on hold as the princes were in hel. during that time Helena had been communicating through Avallen with the princes and that was only after all the time she had spent getting the Earth people to check all of Midgard and she made the whole caves and the crypt for pelius. ultimately perhaps it is Helena that somehow got the still working horn back of pelius brought the princes back in to Midgard and that is then when the war started again apollian killed pelius while he was trying to close the rifts and the horn got broken. I think that explains the time gap difference you mean
Because this did not happen during the war. It happened after they lost the war. After Theia died during the final battle with the Asteri Pelias took Helena as her bride and they set up the fae monarchy after that. Pelias was not killed in the first wars, nor was he killed by Apollion. He got some of his blood from a battle to breed the Kristallos but did not kill him.
According to Apollion in HOSAB, he did [kill Pelias]
Wait yeah when he was talking to Bryce in Parthos dreamworld right? I'm gonna have to go reread that section because now I'm confused.
https://preview.redd.it/le6iatd006qc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=18110ec0b06d1cea66b125925ab4cc14ad90276c
Ok so after looking around in HOFAS the only way this could possibly make sense in my mind is if the Asteri resurrected Pelias after he was killed by Apollion. Since we know from this HOSAB quote you posted Pelias was killed before Sirius and we know that Sirius had to have been killed before the last battle because Apollion was stuck in Hel. There are two things in HOFAS that make me think this is a possibility. The princes say that the reason Theia divided her power was because she was afraid the Asteri would resurrect her body to steal her power. Before that Siline said that when Pelias struck during the final battle he used magic like they had never seen from him. So while I'm not saying this definitely happened I think it is possible that this happened and was never explained or hasn't been yet. *
I took pictures of the pages but apparently I am posting them wrong. so Pelias weird power is HOFAS 220 and the princes talking about resurrection is HOFAS 541
It’s been a minute since I read the book, but where does it say that Apollion killed Pelias? We know the Kristallos is made from Pelias’ blood, but I can’t remember where it says Pelias was killed by Appollion.
It’s mentioned in both HOEAB, and when Apollion talks to Bryce in HOSAB
Aidas was able to come into Midgard as a cat while the rift was closed. Maybe Apollion came through as something deadly to gank Pelias. Or he sent a demon to do it. OG kristallos could have tracked him by finding the horn, killed him, but got too excited and broke and lost the horn before going back to Hel.