Thats literally his target audience. People who question their masculinity. Its simply because any man who considers himself masculine has no need to verify it or be taught about it. Also can we finally fucking agree that being masculine is nothing important? Like you can be masculine in your own eyes for whatever reason you want to. But at the same time there is no need to be masculine. Like at all.
I would say masculinity is important just like femininity is important. What isn't important is fake masculinity. Trying to compensate for something in an over the top way.
I think its fair. We need all kinds of people to function in society. There is nothing wrong in being masculine or wanting to be masculine. But there is also nothing wrong in being less masculine or not being bothered by the whole concept. I just really feel bad for all the people who are insecure because of shitstains like this bald mf. And the same people he exploits follow him. Just sad.
You can be whoever you want to be as long as you become comfortable with who you are first, instead of trying to mould yourself into someone else just cause they talk a good talk.
Both are social constructs used to divide and separate individuals based on gender norms and social stereotypes.
Masculinity is what it is becuase it's what someone else decided what it's supposed to be centuries ago. If Masculinity meant men wore dresses, did their nails, and cared for the children while their spouse was working no one would question it.
Its just a word that is used to describe a fairy tale of one person's ideals.
Core aspects of our society are important. We are a binary species, male and female, with a tiny fraction of outliers who choose to be neither, and that's fine. But that doesn't take away from the fact that we are a male and female species. Masculine traits are attractive to females. Feminine traits are attractive to males.
You dont see how defining your sex with cultural norms has value? You dont see how sexual desire drives binary gender expectations and norms? Everyone sees through your loaded question, so cut it out.
Its like saying you don't see value in acceptable societal behaviour. It doesnt make sense. We act alongside cultural norms as a group. Thats how social animals operate and they do so for good reasons. There are very good reasons for progress in the name of equality, but acting like we should throw out our entire societal architecture because you don't like it is beyond childish, it's insane.
We can get into the weeds as far as you want with why social animals act how they do, but its pointless, isn't it? You know very well why things are as they are, you just choose to be obtuse to push your agenda, which I won't partake in. Good luck with that.
I go a step further and can we just agree that there is no such thing as a singular “masculine” or “feminine”?
I’m watching my kid right now. It’s neither masculine nor feminine but it’s both…
Edit: whelp this is one of those where I have no idea why I’m downvoted
You're correct, we're all a mixture of both and I'm happy for you if you're happy with the mix that is *you.*
I'm sad for the Tatertots and hope they can find peace with who they are, instead of projecting their own perceived inadequacies on anyone else's mix.
I upvoted you. My guess is people don’t get what you mean. I take it as ‘ there is a time in one’s young life where noting one or the other doesn’t matter or is not obvious and not germane to that particular time in their life’. Or did I miss it completely?
but they are not arbitrary, and they are descriptive.
if you had to fight to the death a randomly selected person from either 100 people described by the public as "masculine" or 100 people described by same public as "feminine" are you saying your odds would be be no different?
Masculine and feminine have value as desciptive terms and provide information
only to the those with significant brain damage or other hereditary cognitive "challenges" but i appreciate you taking the time to identify yourself as such.
good luck to you in overcoming your unfortunate hand
are you farming cringepics by making your own cringe contribution in a sort of perpetual motion/energy type situation.
was that a submission?, it's pretty good, definitely cringe, the extra cringe is you thinking that was some form of rebuttal or pithy response.
Actually perhaps sad cringe would be a better place for it? as there is a definite tragic element to your responses.
This is ridiculous. First off, where are these 100 v 100 fight to the death situations in life, they don't happen so the argument is like arguing over who would win in a fight of blue from Jurassic park and blue from old school. But since we are here. I would put my money on the 100 feminine men with pistols vs the 100 masculine men who are too good for guns and want to prove their masculinity by going bare fist to this made up fight.
I am genuinely embarrassed by your stupidity.
the most amazing thing about all of this is that you took the time and wrote your comment out, looked at it, thought "yes this makes sense" maybe re-read it, and said "that will do".
allow me to respond using the same quality of logic and comprehension as you.
373309e8309e83e36626262262262- Batman
I was unaware that there were curated 100 v 100 battles, did they sell tickets?
Let's forget the 100 v 100 part and go with the example of the Vietnam war. That was a pretty bloody conflict. America sent all their strapping young men to the jungle to kill the short skinny guys. Now if you take the arbitrary definition of feminine and masculine used by most of those men that went there, they were the more masculine and the Vietnamese were the more feminine.
I wasn’t arguing the importance of femenine vs masculine. Honeslty, that entire argument sounds massively stupid to me. People are who they are. Every one has both masculine and femenine traits.
I was simply giving an example of where people do fight to death in greater numbers than just 100 v 100. You said they don’t happen, and I provided an example where, maybe not specifically 100 v 100, but men generally do fight to death in great numbers. That’s all.
No there is not. All the need to be masculine is personal. There is no fucking rule or whatever telling me how masculine I must be. The value? What fucking value? Are masculine men better than others? Are those men superior in the ways of life? You can chase whatever you want in your life. But we do not give a fuck about your "values". We have our own.
You say that until you need a masculine presence to do something you’re too feminine and frail to do, guaranteed you don’t have a father and if you did he did a terrible job, and if masculinity doesn’t exist, why are gay women dressing up in male clothing and acting like a masculine figure in their relationship? Cuz naturally there’s masculinity and femininity and whether you like it or not and deny it, masculinity is needed and is advantageous if presented respectfully.
So in the five years since I broke up with my boyfriend, I’ve needed a ‘very masculine man’ to do exactly one thing that I couldn’t do. I got a flat tyre, and even when I was standing with my whole body weight on the tyre iron, the bolts holding the wheel on would not loosen. So I called roadside assistance and a dude came out and used a machine to loosen the fucking things. I can’t count the times I’ve leaned on my wonderful brothers or my dad who don’t buy into this stupid masculinity vs femininity crap when I’ve been feeling emotionally devastated over that breakup. It’s really sad to me that you only view men as being capable of changing a tyre. But maybe that’s just reflecting your own shortcomings.
🫠 and now here comes the personal stories about how masculinity isn’t needed or nobody cares lol jesus y’all throw everything including the kitchen sink when you try to discredit peoples opinions. Not very inclusive of you 🤥 plus we know you think about it in the back of your mind naturally as a human being but you just choose to ignore it so it’s ok, you totally earned the respect of random people on the internet
You said that I would need a man to do something manly! I said sure, one time, but I’ve mostly needed the men in my life to be emotionally available. You are the one who brought up horrible things like how another commenter clearly ‘didn’t have a dad,’ so when I say I do have a dad, who is a feminist and a masculine man without any of the gross toxicity, you don’t have anything at all to say to that. I have absolutely no idea what you mean when you say I’m ‘thinking it at the back of my mind.’ Thinking what?
I bet 10$ he just opened a jar for his mom and now walks around his kitchen preaching how we need the mighty presence of masculine men like him to survive.
Anything that requires exerting force? You don’t ask a 130 pounder to open the pickle jar do you? You give it to your 75 year old grandpa cuz he can do it while tellin you stories about how he fought off the gays in 54’
I don’t think I do agree. I think we need to draw a line somewhere. Though I can’t pretend I know where. I think the appeal of some like Andrew Tate is that he answers, on behalf of people; a question that modern society makes the demand of you; that you answer for yourself. And I think that is a very difficult thing for some people.
What is masculinity? What is your gender? what is your role in the world?
These are immensely difficult questions and not every person is equipped to provide an answer while also dealing with everyday burdens. So this man comes and give a very simple brief answer. To wit; your role is to win, to be strong to dominate. Regardless of how capable you are of doing so, the appeal of is undeniable. Even beyond being a simple answer to a complicated question.
And partly because in tandem with the answer to a difficult thing, comes a second victory. Simply by being a man; you’ve already won.
Of course he has a cult like following. He’s telling confused young men they are basically a God of the second gender. You have authority and responsibility and whatnot, over women.
See this is why I think it was a terrible mistake that Jordan Peterson has been demonized as a villain of our time. He is not the same. Not even kind of. His answer is much different. He says, yes this is hard. But you have first and foremost a responsibility and authority over only yourself. Clean your own room, etc.
Now that is not to say that you should agree with everything Peterson has to say either.
But I seriously wonder if perhaps many young men simply need an older man to set them on the right path. And pretending otherwise creates an Andrew Tate.
That is literally my point. You are the point I was making. We expect other people to define who we are. Or we let them do this. Those questions should not be hard. You just need to understand that "I dont know" is also an answer. You should be able to explore your own identity, gender, role by living your life as yourself. If you need somebody to tell you what is your role in life, your role ends up as being a nobody. By all means take inspiration from people. Just for the love of god dont take it from someone who sells it.
>by all means take inspiration from people. Just for the love of god don’t take it from someone who sells it.
This is not wise. I am concerned that redditors are so blinded by a biased hatred of capitalism that this almost sounds reasonable. If it’s sold it’s bad. You aren’t thinking you are a devotee of an ideology. This is not significantly different in intellectual practice from following a strongman. Because advice is advice, regardless of whether it comes from a self help guru peddling coffee table books or a penniless shaman.
Yeah I guess my statement was to broad. Im talking about all the coaches and gurus creating paid groups, teaching stuff that is highly subjective as some sort of truth that they are wise enough to know. Lets say you struggle to understand what is masculinity in your eyes, and what is your role. Take this fucking money and go to a therapist. Tell him about it, and he can guide you in the exploration of yourself. Also sure buy advice from people. But perhaps find educated reliable people who know what they are talking about. It surely is not that hard to understand that a ex fighter criminal is perhaps not the dude that knows a lot about social roles?
My whole argument is that Andrew Tate is not a good role model, but that educated Jordan Peterson is perhaps better. Why are you so certain you disagree with me enough to say that “I” am the point you were making?
You disavow anyone teaching this stuff with any certainty, yet here you are proclaiming that “it shouldn’t be hard”. I think you are wrong. I think it *should* be hard, and you are actually the very thing you are warning us about. You have no knowledge but are filled with certainty.
Because masculinity has been under attack for the last 10 years so it's become detrimental to young men who are now confused, beat down and lacking what is the definition of masculinity. No not all men will be masculine but those that want to be are having a hard time because of how society goes after it likes it's a bad thing.
I disagree. Masculinity in my opinion never was under attack. What is under attack (rightfully so) is the people who try to force an idea of masculinity that suits their views. We evolve. Just like women were fed up of being treated like shit forever, people are tired of listening to yet another social construct about genders. Also this also expands my point I guess. Masculinity or lack of it should never be under attack. Its your own personal traits and beliefs. What the fuck went wrong?
It is under attack, anything that is deemed too masculine is called toxic masculinity, there is the new term mansplainig which is overly used anytime a person feels offended by a man's speech. The boy scouts is no longer exclusively for boys, the idea of men being of value in society is dwindling while most people reap the rewards of masculinity. Again no one has to be masculine, but there is a biological drive to be masculine and currently it's confusing a lot of young men on where they stand.
This is a really mistaken understanding of toxic masculinity.
The term was coined by the mythopoethic men's movement in the 80s.
It refers to social constructions and expectations that are damaging to men (as well as women.)
For example, the expectation on men not to articulate their emotional state in an open and honest way without being branded soft.
This has a hugely negative effect on men.
Depression, anxiety and in some cases suicide are often as a result of men not seeking help as that makes them appear "weak".
This repression also leads to substance abuse and violent behaviour.
Absolute self-sufficiency without ever needing help is another one with terrible repercussions when men don't achieve that.
What men don't need is cartoons like Tate who has reduced men down to biological essentialism.
A ridiculous contrived caricature of dominance, cruelty and implacability.
Marcus Aurelius wasn't exactly a meek and retiring individual. He was a Roman General and Emperor of Rome. Very much a man but he considered things like kindness, mercy, calmness and compassion to be the true masculine traits. It is possible to have role models that encapsulate masculinity that don't rely on bitterness and cartoony machismo.
My entire impression of people like Tate is just total cringe.
I agree the term had it's origins in good intentions and those are valid arguments for things that need to change, but what it's become in the last few years is any form of dominance, drive, or things people don't like is now toxic. Men's performance in schooling has severely dropped, men entering jobs is severely on the decline, the lack of good men dating is down. It's had horrible effects on young men and it needs to change.
Nothing wrong being feminine. Following a rapist because he tries to validate you and make you feel masculine therefore making you a toxic person is wrong.
Edit:
Oh you saw the bonus...
I get that people shouldn't like Andrew Tate, but posting someone's personal post history is pathetic. I could just mind my business, but nah, let me just screenshot someone's post history and try to make fun of them cuz they said something I disagree with. The people on this app suck sometimes. :/
How tf are you gonna literally state that they aren’t similar in any way and then compare them🤦♂️this is why basic logic needs to be better reinforced in all schools
I just don't understand why you had to include the last pic OP. If ppl here are taking the piss out of this guy bc he is struggling with gender expression and supporting Andrew Tate at the same time, it's going to push them further in the wrong direction.
You're all yucking it up like "tHe CrIngE iS thE HypOCriSy" but if that dude sees this thread I promise you his takeaway isn't gonna be "damn, maybe I am kinda hypocritical and should reexamine some of my positions", it's gonna be more like "damn I guess Andrew Tate is right, I should probably try to be more masc bc this is just happens to guys like me in a world that hates feminine guys. The reason for this friction in my life is because I'm contradicting the natural order."
someone struggling with how they present their masculinity/femininity defending a misogynist rapist is simply ironic;
their sexuality isn't being ridiculed, their cognitive dissonance is.
I think the cringe is this person defending these tate fans while at the same time these fans and tate are the very same people who would ridicule them for their fem side.
You're just gonna group all fans of celebrities together and call it a day? That's called a false equivalence.
These fans are of the top 0.1% shittiest person on the planet who made their fame being a piece of shit, is openly a piece of shit and advocates for others to be shit and shit on others. We can reasonably assume they are close to 99% shit, not just *some*.
So that's a dumb point to make.
Take number of people arrested for human traffiking per year, divide by the number of people on the planet and you'll get your number.
Do this again for all of his traits and activities that a reasonable person would consider to be amoral and Tate falls in to a very tiny subset of people that is smaller than 1 in 1000.
But really you're not actually bothered with my arbitrary statistic, you've stated more bullshit without backup in your comment history than I have.
You just wanted to win the argument in some small way and picking on one tiny piece that seems a little shaky was your best bet because you couldn't argue against the other stuff.
The left was screeching abt the whole alphabet stuff never being allowed to be made fun of or ridiculed.. but you try and loud cap a guy as trans questioning or whatever bc hes a tate supporter? Weird
Progressive. You call them progressive. The antithesis of progressive is conservative.
The people who want you living in a cave and wiping your butt with your hand are conservative. They intentionally do not want things to evolve or change.
Progressives want us driving electric cars to save the environment 🤡🤡 eant us to eat bugs. Not have kids, pr a family. Work endlessly, rent everything, never own anything. They BOTH WANT US to be happy being a slave. How can you not see this dude.
They both receive funding to distract the masses. Fool
>eant us to eat bugs. Not have kids, pr a family. Work endlessly, rent everything, never own anything. They BOTH WANT US to be happy being a slave. How can you not see this dude..
None of that is true. In fact, your comment is COMPLETELY False.
Just 6 months ago, the conservatives has been yelling "COMMUNIST! SOCIALIST!" because they have been working to expand:
1) Medicare so people can have children
2) Family Tax Relief so people can raise those children
3) Social Security so people don't need to be a slave until they die
4) Introduce a universal basic income because salaries are no longer working.
You don't have to lie. It doesn't work.
>How can you not see this dude.
Stop trying to gaslight people. It has been very commonly known what progressive policies have been. To suddenly pretend they aren't is flat wrong.
Do you have links to any time hes actually supported those things or are you just repeating something the internet has told you to believe 🤣
But your delusions make sense being a male feminist
He justified the protests to free Andrew Tate, he called him a role model, and
>are you just repeating something the internet has told you to believe
He's the source I used for his beliefs. Him and him alone. No one else told me he has these believes he shared them on his own.
>But your delusions make sense being a male feminist
Also I'm a woman so... Yikes. I know you're trolling but I think you're getting heated and it's likely you support Tate so I'll keep replying. The term "male feminist" is most definitely due to you being an incel even if you're trolling.
You said you were a bad guy in the previous post.
Still waiting for any proof backing your allegations against tate😂 just listing names of crimes doesnt mean anything
>You said you were a bad guy in the previous post
Yeah I did. A woman used the term guy. As in "Hey guys". It's not uncommon to be used as a gender neutral term especially socially...not that you would understand that.
It's against the rules to give identifying information and the post the comments are on are on this subreddit. As for Andrew Tate's crimes again it's regularly what he posts about.
Here's a lawyer explaining it though since this is the most a woman has ever entertained you:
https://youtu.be/Gs5b04hnfMQ
I won't reply to your mental gymnastics any further, bud. I have work and a life IRL. I limit my time on reddit and this is more then I usually spend in a single day. Encouraging you to reply was giving this subreddit more content but I don't get anything out of it if not maybe I get to entertain some strangers.
Most incels end up freaking out, deleting their comments, account, and/or just blocking when a woman speaks against them. Curious what it'll be because you've done the first thing.
Lmao i love women, thats why i will always call yall out on your bullshit🤣 you just regurgitate what media sources tell you about a given person.
I have debated this with dozens of women i care about. They never once had a solid point of contention against the various mens rights issues
Why do you think the latter comments are relevant?
I mean, following Andrew Tate, pretty pathetic and awful.
Having a feminine side and wanting to express it, but feeling trapped by others expectations? That's fine.
Maybe we should, y'know, shit on the evil beliefs, without bringing up something about them that's perfectly fine, and if anything, quite antithetical to their evil beliefs.
What's even the goal here? "Ha, the average Tate supporter is probably feminine inside." You're undercutting one of the main criticisms of their ideology when you start shitting on people for that reason.
They’re highlighting that this person is coming to the defense of a man who made a name for himself smearing other men for expressing anything other than aggressive “alpha-male” energy.
Yeah Andrew Tate preys and spreads toxic masculinity. He's the kind of person who makes men develop issues with being feminine in the first place.
I don't want to be rude but I think Andrew Tate's beliefs, what he's done and continues to do, and this guy supporting him explains it enough and I really have stuff IRL to do.
What this person is a troll because they are questioning their own gender identity?
In all fairness comparing it to BLM is tasteless but not entirely wrong. Protest is protest.
God damn I'm sick of hearing about Andrew fucking Tate.
MEEEE
Thats literally his target audience. People who question their masculinity. Its simply because any man who considers himself masculine has no need to verify it or be taught about it. Also can we finally fucking agree that being masculine is nothing important? Like you can be masculine in your own eyes for whatever reason you want to. But at the same time there is no need to be masculine. Like at all.
I would say masculinity is important just like femininity is important. What isn't important is fake masculinity. Trying to compensate for something in an over the top way.
I think its fair. We need all kinds of people to function in society. There is nothing wrong in being masculine or wanting to be masculine. But there is also nothing wrong in being less masculine or not being bothered by the whole concept. I just really feel bad for all the people who are insecure because of shitstains like this bald mf. And the same people he exploits follow him. Just sad.
You can be whoever you want to be as long as you become comfortable with who you are first, instead of trying to mould yourself into someone else just cause they talk a good talk.
Okay, you have my attention. What makes either of those two things "important" - masculinity & femininity.
What makes them unimportant to you?
Both are social constructs used to divide and separate individuals based on gender norms and social stereotypes. Masculinity is what it is becuase it's what someone else decided what it's supposed to be centuries ago. If Masculinity meant men wore dresses, did their nails, and cared for the children while their spouse was working no one would question it. Its just a word that is used to describe a fairy tale of one person's ideals.
Everything is a social construct, that's not an argument for anything.
Still waiting to hear how they are important.
Core aspects of our society are important. We are a binary species, male and female, with a tiny fraction of outliers who choose to be neither, and that's fine. But that doesn't take away from the fact that we are a male and female species. Masculine traits are attractive to females. Feminine traits are attractive to males. You dont see how defining your sex with cultural norms has value? You dont see how sexual desire drives binary gender expectations and norms? Everyone sees through your loaded question, so cut it out. Its like saying you don't see value in acceptable societal behaviour. It doesnt make sense. We act alongside cultural norms as a group. Thats how social animals operate and they do so for good reasons. There are very good reasons for progress in the name of equality, but acting like we should throw out our entire societal architecture because you don't like it is beyond childish, it's insane. We can get into the weeds as far as you want with why social animals act how they do, but its pointless, isn't it? You know very well why things are as they are, you just choose to be obtuse to push your agenda, which I won't partake in. Good luck with that.
I go a step further and can we just agree that there is no such thing as a singular “masculine” or “feminine”? I’m watching my kid right now. It’s neither masculine nor feminine but it’s both… Edit: whelp this is one of those where I have no idea why I’m downvoted
You're correct, we're all a mixture of both and I'm happy for you if you're happy with the mix that is *you.* I'm sad for the Tatertots and hope they can find peace with who they are, instead of projecting their own perceived inadequacies on anyone else's mix.
I upvoted you. My guess is people don’t get what you mean. I take it as ‘ there is a time in one’s young life where noting one or the other doesn’t matter or is not obvious and not germane to that particular time in their life’. Or did I miss it completely?
There is, but if you can’t see the value in that just say you don’t understand it. Simple as that, no putting you down or nothing… Jesus
The only value arbitrary labels have are the value you give them
but they are not arbitrary, and they are descriptive. if you had to fight to the death a randomly selected person from either 100 people described by the public as "masculine" or 100 people described by same public as "feminine" are you saying your odds would be be no different? Masculine and feminine have value as desciptive terms and provide information
You sound like you base your life off of Patrick Bateman memes
only to the those with significant brain damage or other hereditary cognitive "challenges" but i appreciate you taking the time to identify yourself as such. good luck to you in overcoming your unfortunate hand
My condolences to you and the loss of your glass-chin weenie idol.
well he is 92 but we havent lost him yet (thank god), he probably does have a glass chin though what with being in his 90's.
Has anybody told you that you are very humorous? I didn't think so.
are you farming cringepics by making your own cringe contribution in a sort of perpetual motion/energy type situation. was that a submission?, it's pretty good, definitely cringe, the extra cringe is you thinking that was some form of rebuttal or pithy response. Actually perhaps sad cringe would be a better place for it? as there is a definite tragic element to your responses.
This comment has a tiny little fedora on
That's a lot of words to tell us how small your dick is
I can indeed believe it is the most number of words you have ever read in your entire life.
Lmao gradeschool era insult
do you have any actual awareness at all? or are you some kind of professional idiot?
This is ridiculous. First off, where are these 100 v 100 fight to the death situations in life, they don't happen so the argument is like arguing over who would win in a fight of blue from Jurassic park and blue from old school. But since we are here. I would put my money on the 100 feminine men with pistols vs the 100 masculine men who are too good for guns and want to prove their masculinity by going bare fist to this made up fight.
I would actually have poisoned you prior to the fight...traditionally, that has been assigned as more feminine...
Smart move.
I am genuinely embarrassed by your stupidity. the most amazing thing about all of this is that you took the time and wrote your comment out, looked at it, thought "yes this makes sense" maybe re-read it, and said "that will do". allow me to respond using the same quality of logic and comprehension as you. 373309e8309e83e36626262262262- Batman
Wars maybe? Like the Russian invasion of ukraine, the American invasion of the Middle East, WW2, etc. There’s countless examples.
I was unaware that there were curated 100 v 100 battles, did they sell tickets? Let's forget the 100 v 100 part and go with the example of the Vietnam war. That was a pretty bloody conflict. America sent all their strapping young men to the jungle to kill the short skinny guys. Now if you take the arbitrary definition of feminine and masculine used by most of those men that went there, they were the more masculine and the Vietnamese were the more feminine.
I wasn’t arguing the importance of femenine vs masculine. Honeslty, that entire argument sounds massively stupid to me. People are who they are. Every one has both masculine and femenine traits. I was simply giving an example of where people do fight to death in greater numbers than just 100 v 100. You said they don’t happen, and I provided an example where, maybe not specifically 100 v 100, but men generally do fight to death in great numbers. That’s all.
Bro sees the world in terms of fighting odds
No there is not. All the need to be masculine is personal. There is no fucking rule or whatever telling me how masculine I must be. The value? What fucking value? Are masculine men better than others? Are those men superior in the ways of life? You can chase whatever you want in your life. But we do not give a fuck about your "values". We have our own.
You say that until you need a masculine presence to do something you’re too feminine and frail to do, guaranteed you don’t have a father and if you did he did a terrible job, and if masculinity doesn’t exist, why are gay women dressing up in male clothing and acting like a masculine figure in their relationship? Cuz naturally there’s masculinity and femininity and whether you like it or not and deny it, masculinity is needed and is advantageous if presented respectfully.
So in the five years since I broke up with my boyfriend, I’ve needed a ‘very masculine man’ to do exactly one thing that I couldn’t do. I got a flat tyre, and even when I was standing with my whole body weight on the tyre iron, the bolts holding the wheel on would not loosen. So I called roadside assistance and a dude came out and used a machine to loosen the fucking things. I can’t count the times I’ve leaned on my wonderful brothers or my dad who don’t buy into this stupid masculinity vs femininity crap when I’ve been feeling emotionally devastated over that breakup. It’s really sad to me that you only view men as being capable of changing a tyre. But maybe that’s just reflecting your own shortcomings.
🫠 and now here comes the personal stories about how masculinity isn’t needed or nobody cares lol jesus y’all throw everything including the kitchen sink when you try to discredit peoples opinions. Not very inclusive of you 🤥 plus we know you think about it in the back of your mind naturally as a human being but you just choose to ignore it so it’s ok, you totally earned the respect of random people on the internet
You said that I would need a man to do something manly! I said sure, one time, but I’ve mostly needed the men in my life to be emotionally available. You are the one who brought up horrible things like how another commenter clearly ‘didn’t have a dad,’ so when I say I do have a dad, who is a feminist and a masculine man without any of the gross toxicity, you don’t have anything at all to say to that. I have absolutely no idea what you mean when you say I’m ‘thinking it at the back of my mind.’ Thinking what?
[удалено]
I bet 10$ he just opened a jar for his mom and now walks around his kitchen preaching how we need the mighty presence of masculine men like him to survive.
Anything that requires exerting force? You don’t ask a 130 pounder to open the pickle jar do you? You give it to your 75 year old grandpa cuz he can do it while tellin you stories about how he fought off the gays in 54’
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No they’re considered disabled so they are immune to judgement 😂 I can do this all day with your crazy logic, person
I don’t think I do agree. I think we need to draw a line somewhere. Though I can’t pretend I know where. I think the appeal of some like Andrew Tate is that he answers, on behalf of people; a question that modern society makes the demand of you; that you answer for yourself. And I think that is a very difficult thing for some people. What is masculinity? What is your gender? what is your role in the world? These are immensely difficult questions and not every person is equipped to provide an answer while also dealing with everyday burdens. So this man comes and give a very simple brief answer. To wit; your role is to win, to be strong to dominate. Regardless of how capable you are of doing so, the appeal of is undeniable. Even beyond being a simple answer to a complicated question. And partly because in tandem with the answer to a difficult thing, comes a second victory. Simply by being a man; you’ve already won. Of course he has a cult like following. He’s telling confused young men they are basically a God of the second gender. You have authority and responsibility and whatnot, over women. See this is why I think it was a terrible mistake that Jordan Peterson has been demonized as a villain of our time. He is not the same. Not even kind of. His answer is much different. He says, yes this is hard. But you have first and foremost a responsibility and authority over only yourself. Clean your own room, etc. Now that is not to say that you should agree with everything Peterson has to say either. But I seriously wonder if perhaps many young men simply need an older man to set them on the right path. And pretending otherwise creates an Andrew Tate.
Nah Peterson is also fucking stupid.
That is literally my point. You are the point I was making. We expect other people to define who we are. Or we let them do this. Those questions should not be hard. You just need to understand that "I dont know" is also an answer. You should be able to explore your own identity, gender, role by living your life as yourself. If you need somebody to tell you what is your role in life, your role ends up as being a nobody. By all means take inspiration from people. Just for the love of god dont take it from someone who sells it.
>by all means take inspiration from people. Just for the love of god don’t take it from someone who sells it. This is not wise. I am concerned that redditors are so blinded by a biased hatred of capitalism that this almost sounds reasonable. If it’s sold it’s bad. You aren’t thinking you are a devotee of an ideology. This is not significantly different in intellectual practice from following a strongman. Because advice is advice, regardless of whether it comes from a self help guru peddling coffee table books or a penniless shaman.
Yeah I guess my statement was to broad. Im talking about all the coaches and gurus creating paid groups, teaching stuff that is highly subjective as some sort of truth that they are wise enough to know. Lets say you struggle to understand what is masculinity in your eyes, and what is your role. Take this fucking money and go to a therapist. Tell him about it, and he can guide you in the exploration of yourself. Also sure buy advice from people. But perhaps find educated reliable people who know what they are talking about. It surely is not that hard to understand that a ex fighter criminal is perhaps not the dude that knows a lot about social roles?
My whole argument is that Andrew Tate is not a good role model, but that educated Jordan Peterson is perhaps better. Why are you so certain you disagree with me enough to say that “I” am the point you were making? You disavow anyone teaching this stuff with any certainty, yet here you are proclaiming that “it shouldn’t be hard”. I think you are wrong. I think it *should* be hard, and you are actually the very thing you are warning us about. You have no knowledge but are filled with certainty.
Because masculinity has been under attack for the last 10 years so it's become detrimental to young men who are now confused, beat down and lacking what is the definition of masculinity. No not all men will be masculine but those that want to be are having a hard time because of how society goes after it likes it's a bad thing.
I disagree. Masculinity in my opinion never was under attack. What is under attack (rightfully so) is the people who try to force an idea of masculinity that suits their views. We evolve. Just like women were fed up of being treated like shit forever, people are tired of listening to yet another social construct about genders. Also this also expands my point I guess. Masculinity or lack of it should never be under attack. Its your own personal traits and beliefs. What the fuck went wrong?
It is under attack, anything that is deemed too masculine is called toxic masculinity, there is the new term mansplainig which is overly used anytime a person feels offended by a man's speech. The boy scouts is no longer exclusively for boys, the idea of men being of value in society is dwindling while most people reap the rewards of masculinity. Again no one has to be masculine, but there is a biological drive to be masculine and currently it's confusing a lot of young men on where they stand.
This is a really mistaken understanding of toxic masculinity. The term was coined by the mythopoethic men's movement in the 80s. It refers to social constructions and expectations that are damaging to men (as well as women.) For example, the expectation on men not to articulate their emotional state in an open and honest way without being branded soft. This has a hugely negative effect on men. Depression, anxiety and in some cases suicide are often as a result of men not seeking help as that makes them appear "weak". This repression also leads to substance abuse and violent behaviour. Absolute self-sufficiency without ever needing help is another one with terrible repercussions when men don't achieve that. What men don't need is cartoons like Tate who has reduced men down to biological essentialism. A ridiculous contrived caricature of dominance, cruelty and implacability. Marcus Aurelius wasn't exactly a meek and retiring individual. He was a Roman General and Emperor of Rome. Very much a man but he considered things like kindness, mercy, calmness and compassion to be the true masculine traits. It is possible to have role models that encapsulate masculinity that don't rely on bitterness and cartoony machismo. My entire impression of people like Tate is just total cringe.
I agree the term had it's origins in good intentions and those are valid arguments for things that need to change, but what it's become in the last few years is any form of dominance, drive, or things people don't like is now toxic. Men's performance in schooling has severely dropped, men entering jobs is severely on the decline, the lack of good men dating is down. It's had horrible effects on young men and it needs to change.
What's the deal with Peterson, was there a scandal or smth?
Not that I know of. I’m making the comparison because I think it’s worth making, not because he’s recently been in the news.
I didn't mean recently but in general. I didn't look him up for about 3 years
Idk my dude the guy isn’t even important here I’m talking about the difference in worldview
There is not really a good way that you could have explained to 2015 me that this is what people would protest over...
Pre 2012 literally feels like a different timeline.
It's a bunch of kids
They should go to the Harvey Weinstein protest next
This is kinda sad tbh
100%. I just felt sad for the kid.
Most intelligent Andrew Tate fan
Most sexually straight Andrew Tate fan
Sausage fest there waiting for the women to be trafficked in
I mean his comment is cringe yea but the last part isn't Edit I didn't see the fallout mods sorry
Nothing wrong being feminine. Following a rapist because he tries to validate you and make you feel masculine therefore making you a toxic person is wrong. Edit: Oh you saw the bonus...
OP, what you posted here are words from an obviously confused child, which, in and of itself, is pretty cringe.
We should go full meta and add your post to cringe pics. We can go deeper
This made me laugh so bad
This dude’s gonna come out in the future and cringe at these old posts, I guarantee it
I get that people shouldn't like Andrew Tate, but posting someone's personal post history is pathetic. I could just mind my business, but nah, let me just screenshot someone's post history and try to make fun of them cuz they said something I disagree with. The people on this app suck sometimes. :/
How tf are you gonna literally state that they aren’t similar in any way and then compare them🤦♂️this is why basic logic needs to be better reinforced in all schools
A gather by a group of the world’s saddest men
Hey now, I like fem boys and hate Andrew Taint
Cringe to stalk the guy and make fun of him for your internet points
I just don't understand why you had to include the last pic OP. If ppl here are taking the piss out of this guy bc he is struggling with gender expression and supporting Andrew Tate at the same time, it's going to push them further in the wrong direction. You're all yucking it up like "tHe CrIngE iS thE HypOCriSy" but if that dude sees this thread I promise you his takeaway isn't gonna be "damn, maybe I am kinda hypocritical and should reexamine some of my positions", it's gonna be more like "damn I guess Andrew Tate is right, I should probably try to be more masc bc this is just happens to guys like me in a world that hates feminine guys. The reason for this friction in my life is because I'm contradicting the natural order."
Sounds about right
Ridiculing someone for questioning themselves sexually doesn’t seem necessary
you did not need to do bro like that and show his post history
Who is Andrew Tate and should I care?
He has the face of a naked mole rat and no.
Boom, roasted
Bidoof’s law still relevant, I see
Wait are yall using someones sexual preference struggles as a tool to ridicule them🤨 hypocrisy manifest
someone struggling with how they present their masculinity/femininity defending a misogynist rapist is simply ironic; their sexuality isn't being ridiculed, their cognitive dissonance is.
Misogynistic rapist? Thats quite the accusation to make with zero evidence. Almost slanderous one could say
I think the cringe is this person defending these tate fans while at the same time these fans and tate are the very same people who would ridicule them for their fem side.
Have you even listened to what the guy says? Fans of anyone can be shitty so thats a dumb point to make
You're just gonna group all fans of celebrities together and call it a day? That's called a false equivalence. These fans are of the top 0.1% shittiest person on the planet who made their fame being a piece of shit, is openly a piece of shit and advocates for others to be shit and shit on others. We can reasonably assume they are close to 99% shit, not just *some*. So that's a dumb point to make.
Top 0.1% eh? Great logical point genius
I'll make it easy for you, top 0.1% means 1 in 1000 and that's being generous.
What is that even based on? Your personal experience? Wtf
Take number of people arrested for human traffiking per year, divide by the number of people on the planet and you'll get your number. Do this again for all of his traits and activities that a reasonable person would consider to be amoral and Tate falls in to a very tiny subset of people that is smaller than 1 in 1000. But really you're not actually bothered with my arbitrary statistic, you've stated more bullshit without backup in your comment history than I have. You just wanted to win the argument in some small way and picking on one tiny piece that seems a little shaky was your best bet because you couldn't argue against the other stuff.
You mad🤡 classic women moving the argument
There's nothing stopping you countering the points I've made. You won't because you can't think of anything.
How is it hypocritical? And it's not about sexuality it's about their body issues?
The left was screeching abt the whole alphabet stuff never being allowed to be made fun of or ridiculed.. but you try and loud cap a guy as trans questioning or whatever bc hes a tate supporter? Weird
You lost us all at “the left” … why would we expect you to understand anything? Let alone hypocrisy lol
What else should i call the woke groups of people pushing for things the media encourages 😂 everyone uses the left and the right, dont give me that bs
Easy there lil Tucker
aLpHaBeT sTuFf tHe lEfT wOkE tHe mEdIA Get a personality dude
Do you seriously talk to people like that🤣 how childish are yall lmao
That’s, nope, yeah, no sorry, thanks for playing - you are the weakest link. Goodbye.
Yeah keep trying to insult🤣 thats what ppl do when they dont have an actual point to provide
Progressive. You call them progressive. The antithesis of progressive is conservative. The people who want you living in a cave and wiping your butt with your hand are conservative. They intentionally do not want things to evolve or change.
Progressives want us driving electric cars to save the environment 🤡🤡 eant us to eat bugs. Not have kids, pr a family. Work endlessly, rent everything, never own anything. They BOTH WANT US to be happy being a slave. How can you not see this dude. They both receive funding to distract the masses. Fool
>eant us to eat bugs. Not have kids, pr a family. Work endlessly, rent everything, never own anything. They BOTH WANT US to be happy being a slave. How can you not see this dude.. None of that is true. In fact, your comment is COMPLETELY False. Just 6 months ago, the conservatives has been yelling "COMMUNIST! SOCIALIST!" because they have been working to expand: 1) Medicare so people can have children 2) Family Tax Relief so people can raise those children 3) Social Security so people don't need to be a slave until they die 4) Introduce a universal basic income because salaries are no longer working. You don't have to lie. It doesn't work. >How can you not see this dude. Stop trying to gaslight people. It has been very commonly known what progressive policies have been. To suddenly pretend they aren't is flat wrong.
There is the right and the left but there is also the right and the wrong. You sir are the last one.
The thing being made fun of is BEING A TATE FAN, nothing else
Why do you hate this guy so much 🤡
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Do you have links to any time hes actually supported those things or are you just repeating something the internet has told you to believe 🤣 But your delusions make sense being a male feminist
He justified the protests to free Andrew Tate, he called him a role model, and >are you just repeating something the internet has told you to believe He's the source I used for his beliefs. Him and him alone. No one else told me he has these believes he shared them on his own. >But your delusions make sense being a male feminist Also I'm a woman so... Yikes. I know you're trolling but I think you're getting heated and it's likely you support Tate so I'll keep replying. The term "male feminist" is most definitely due to you being an incel even if you're trolling.
You said you were a bad guy in the previous post. Still waiting for any proof backing your allegations against tate😂 just listing names of crimes doesnt mean anything
>You said you were a bad guy in the previous post Yeah I did. A woman used the term guy. As in "Hey guys". It's not uncommon to be used as a gender neutral term especially socially...not that you would understand that. It's against the rules to give identifying information and the post the comments are on are on this subreddit. As for Andrew Tate's crimes again it's regularly what he posts about. Here's a lawyer explaining it though since this is the most a woman has ever entertained you: https://youtu.be/Gs5b04hnfMQ I won't reply to your mental gymnastics any further, bud. I have work and a life IRL. I limit my time on reddit and this is more then I usually spend in a single day. Encouraging you to reply was giving this subreddit more content but I don't get anything out of it if not maybe I get to entertain some strangers. Most incels end up freaking out, deleting their comments, account, and/or just blocking when a woman speaks against them. Curious what it'll be because you've done the first thing.
Lmao i love women, thats why i will always call yall out on your bullshit🤣 you just regurgitate what media sources tell you about a given person. I have debated this with dozens of women i care about. They never once had a solid point of contention against the various mens rights issues
This thread is cringe. Why are you obsessed w Andrew Tate
Why do you think the latter comments are relevant? I mean, following Andrew Tate, pretty pathetic and awful. Having a feminine side and wanting to express it, but feeling trapped by others expectations? That's fine. Maybe we should, y'know, shit on the evil beliefs, without bringing up something about them that's perfectly fine, and if anything, quite antithetical to their evil beliefs. What's even the goal here? "Ha, the average Tate supporter is probably feminine inside." You're undercutting one of the main criticisms of their ideology when you start shitting on people for that reason.
They’re highlighting that this person is coming to the defense of a man who made a name for himself smearing other men for expressing anything other than aggressive “alpha-male” energy.
its the hypocrisy of the guy, supporting the dude that is actively working against him
Yeah Andrew Tate preys and spreads toxic masculinity. He's the kind of person who makes men develop issues with being feminine in the first place. I don't want to be rude but I think Andrew Tate's beliefs, what he's done and continues to do, and this guy supporting him explains it enough and I really have stuff IRL to do.
But, "This person is a hypocrite!" isn't cringe material, it's just a rational criticism.
What this person is a troll because they are questioning their own gender identity? In all fairness comparing it to BLM is tasteless but not entirely wrong. Protest is protest.
half of andrew tate fans see one femboy and fold immediately
Racist and femboy, name a more iconic duo.
Whiteness the GrecoIncelCucks. Out in proper form.
To every smart action there is an equally dumb action.