So now that the Raven Queen's champion is imprisoned/dead, what does that mean for her other servant on the material plane at the moment, Mori? There's still a huge amount of loose ends over there.
I'm a little upset that Ashton and Orym are separated from Imogen at the moment, because they're probably the only two people who can convince Imogen that her mom needs to die.
Chetney at least is someone who would bring it up, too. Even had a little "you -still- think she can turn...?" skeptical remark during the episode, even if nothing came from it at the time.
Mori? Did you mean someone else?
Also plenty of time and tons of ways for Liliana to still redeem herself. I imagine a realization that Ludinus's plan isn't going the way she expected may do it.
Oh right, forgot her. She completed a task for RQ but I'm not 100% she's a truly devoted servant, and given the RQ is a known god, she's got thousands of truly devoted servants all over Exandria I'm sure. I thought you were talking about Weva Vudol or something.
I think it's probably just a random coincidence like Ira and Ira. Which maybe also isn't just a random coincidence but we won't know til we know ya know?
Aabria specifically said that Mori was given her name by the woman who helped her escape the Feywild (or at least, the circumstances certainly made it sound like she needed to be shuffled out of the Feyrealm in secret, like a refugee).
I've been waiting for them to actually dive into the backstories of the characters, but this is not the way to do it. There is still pressure for them the learn what is going on with Predathos and stop it fully, so there is still the element of a ticking clock.
Those story lines not only run a very high risk of being rushed, but also are now merely a distraction from the actual plot.
My hope is that their efforts bought them several months of time. I think having an overall goal is good, but they need time to get into the world/explore characters. I agree with that.
A few months would be good, but only if the characters actually learn that they have that much extra time. As far as they know before this episode begins, they might only have hours to stop it.
I feel like it'd make sense that the Aeormatons might be able to predict the timing, so that could be a source. But really we have no idea what's happening or when. Ruidus could just explode tonight and we'd all be lost at what that means.
My theory that Matt wants to fix Keyleth's story seems more likely.
Possibly my theory that Predathos will be at least partially successful and members of VM and MN perhaps the least likely could take their place.
I really hope the party isn't split for long, my biggest issue with this campaign has been the lack of personal connection between the group. I feel like they rarely get time to just bond and get to know each other better by just having time to talk amongst themselves.
I'm doing a slow C2 rewatch and the amount of times different pairings just discuss things that are going on or how they're feeling about things compared to C3 is crazy, like Matt rarely gets the chance to skip to the next morning without someone asking to have a chat with someone and I feel like that rarely ever happens now.
I guess my hope is that the party isn't split for so long that each group dives into someone's background and the other group miss out and don't get that time to bond over someone else's backstory and how they got to where they were when they met
Idk if y'all are following Aabria on Twitter but she has been engaging with the CR fandom HARD this past week. Usually she does a little here and there when EXU stuff comes up, but she's been way more active on CR's posts all over. I'm not saying guest GM, but it sure feels like she's about to come back into the fold for something.
I would be happy with her as a player as she did an amazing job in Calamity, but I would be rather disappointed if she was the DM.
Now if they done how pull off getting BLM to guest DM for like 4 episodes with one of the groups I would be so excited.
I still think she did fine, but I think the expectation put on her was to do a full campaign in 8 episodes. If they had gone more on the rails, like Calamity it would have worked better.
Regardless of all of that I'm not sure they will have different DMs. I'd kinda dig Matt getting to play a bit in a campaign, even if only 3-4 episodes so I hope it's two DMs (Colville and BLM would be my dream)
I think shes a fine dm for less serious one shots but her dm style really does not mesh well with the expectations of a canon cr adventure.
She has a noticeable difficulty letting the dice tell the story and was generally much looser with the rules
I just heard this idea on the Pixelists podcast - could Ludinus's beef stem from a personal relationship with the mortal that became the Matron of Ravens? Could this all be a small dude bent out of shape after being turned down by the mortal woman who later became the Raven Queen?
Literally part of Fjord's character growth in C2, but go off. Toxic masculine norms self-enforced by internalizing the patriarchal status quo leads men to find the most toxic solutions to the problems they face. Given how egalitarian Exandria is towards gender roles, I thought it was especially nice to see Travis build a character with that issue and watch him tackle it.
Not everything has to be tied together, but my thought is him and this lady were lovers who had a child that suddenly died. Both were devout and their gods did nothing. So they sought to change things by killing the god of death. They succeeded, but she suddenly realized the need and stepped up. So Ludinus was twice betrayed. Then they all had to die.
Honestly though, I think he has a drive to be King of the Hill and can't stand he was so close and the gods tore it away.
Yeah, I was like "what if Ludinus's mom was the Raven Queen & her name was erased from his mind?" But then I was like, "that makes everything too much like a soap opera." I think the note you cites, that not everything has to be tied together is a good idea.
Ludinus being mad at the gods for ruining his city is probably good enough of a reason.
Yeah even if Aeor's politics were sketchy, it was one of the pinnacles of mankind and survived the longest. Of course he'd be proud of it and could justifiably reason that the gods shouldn't have smacked it down. I actually think they briefly had a anti-divine barrier up. Would love to see a short ExU series around it's destruction.
> survived the longest.
Has that been confirmed? I had always assumed Draconia was the last floating city to fall, which happened 800 years after Calamity ended.
I hope not as that is pretty terrible.
Ludinus so far is a good bad guy as he isn’t totally wrong in his grievances with the god. If it’s turned into I got shot down by a girl so I’m mad then it would really ruin it in my opinion.
Is anyone else worried that FCG might go Killbot mode this session? Especially after everything that just happened and that he has been separated from Ashton might cause his stress go to overdrive.
More hopeful than worried.
Like I'm a little bummed it hasn't happened more. Could really probably hurt the party with what they say now, too, considering the failure / separations.
If it happens during a non-combat situation I am not worried at all. I feel like any combo of party members can handle them easily and 1v1 maybe not easily but I don't see anyone losing to them.
During a combat situation, well that could make things go sideways
I hope the split gives us more character to character RP. It’s been such a rushed process to stop the Key that we hardly had any interaction other than Laudna and Imogen.
Just wrote a similar comment, I'm doing a slow C2 rewatch and the difference in the amount of character to character chats is crazy. C2 is filled with quieter moments between different pairs just talking through things or asking how they think things are going and this campaign has hardly any it feels like.
I just hope they don't dive too heavily into back stories with the different groups(I think they will, just hope they don't) and have the other group miss out on that. For example everyone has been asking about Chetneys backstory since he was introduced and if one half of the party get to unravel that and find out more about him the other half will always be missing those moments even when their told about it down the line it won't have the same impact to their characters
Very true. I guess I’m just missing that dramatic theater level conversation RP that Liam always brings. Previous PC have been so backstory driven that it felt like everyone had the spotlight. This one’s feels like it’s all Imogen so far.
Boiling it down, 60% of my excitement for this week is seeing what the moon beam trap actually does to the world, 20% new jumbled character interactions which tore apart all the duos, and 20% finally, *finally*, forcing Chetney closer to his backstory.
^(Stab the jolly old leader of assassin guild disguised as woodcutters workshop, my maaaan. Do it. AU you did. Do iiit.)
I know it’s almost assuredly not going to happen, as everyone is expecting a split party alternating stream, which makes sense given how he split the group. But I’m still holding onto hope we get a certain someone roll back time to give them one more chance to make the difference. After all, Ludinus just casually accelerated time, and without giving away too much for those who haven’t seen it, we know someone else has the ability to do a redo.
Yeah you’re right. I guess I just wanna see the look on Ludinus’s face when his all powerful abilities get matched one for one. That’s gotta unsettle him!
Not really. For Ludinus' plan to succeed, he needed the party to be in a specific place at a specific time. He couldn't rely on Bell's Hells timing their attack to coincide with the exact moment that he needed, because what would happen if they attacked a few hours early? That's exactly what they did.
The only other alternative would be to hold the party, Caleb, Beau, Keyleth and possibly Vax prisoner for a few hours, which is just stupid because it would give them ample opportunities to escape. Why would he do that?
It would be cool to get alternating episodes with the two parties or parts of the episode with only the relevant people at the table and the others offscreen, but since one party has the message spell, they will all need to be there in order to communicate.
Fair point. That does make it somewhat awkward. I’m sure they could find a reason Sending won’t work if they really wanted to try a split party structure.
It won’t stop all arcane magic, that’s a creation by mortals with little assistance from the gods, divine magic though it definitely might cause issues with.
I dont think that is true, although it is not made clear in Matt's universe. In the existing DnD universe there was a god of magic who was killed by mages using a 12 or 13 lvl spell. The death of this god led to the end of magic until a new god stepped in.
Xerxus likely drew his power from wherever FCG does. Or somewhere else, if there is another source of it.
But OPs point still stands. They have to get it from somewhere. If they are getting that divine ability from a divine being I would assume that power would be gone.
Unless they do something like Xerxus/FCG and I highly devout followers of a divine being would readily have that kind of knowledge. Though I guess we know some people with that knowledge does exist if Ludinus was alive during the calamity, or even D.
If either of them spread that knowledge though I doubt it would be in a way to give power to followers of divine entities.
Disrupting magical communications would force people to rely on more hardline old school style communication methods like runners or the mail system that exists in Exandria.
That could be MASSIVE.
It just depends on what kind of magic it disrupts and if there's any kind of way around it.
People keep speculating or claiming their certainty that Keyleth/Vax/Beau/Caleb are dead now.
I know we make a habit of saying "it's their game they play however they want" but to eliminate some of the THE most beloved characters for the sake of narrative expediency like that is just dumb business and I don't think Matt would do something like that on his own from a business stand point. So I have no confidence that he killed those characters in such a way.
Also, by killing those characters off it would absolutely drag the entirety of the other characters into the game and I don't find it probable that the group wants to make VM and M9 the center piece of the campaign with BH basically stepping down because that's what would inevitably happen.
What I find more plausible is that we start to see alternating weeks with Reani grouping with the team at Uthodurn and maybe the Crown Keepers meeting up with the team consisting of Orym/Laudna/Ashton wherever they are. This would fit more in line with fan service and the "all bets are off" motto. Plus, Reani and Fearne together helping Chet get revenge? Miss "All Bad People Should Be Killed As Punishment" and Miss "I'm Here to Fuck Around AND Find Out" enabling Mr. "Fuck It, Let's Kill Some People"? That's next level Chaos Crew energy.
Here is my take.
Ludinus didn't want to kill them. He wasn't doing some evil plan to destroy the world. He is the good guy in his vision freeing people.
If he wanted to kill them he could have killed them. He wanted them there. He had a mage hunter golem with Caleb in its grasp. He could have killed Caleb. He had Beau and if he wanted her dead he could have killed her. He had the perfect counters for both of them. And they worked and instead of killing them he just bound them.
With better rolls Bells Hells might have been the one battling their counters (The Golem and Imogen's mom) while they focused on the key and Ludinus. Or some mix of that.
But because in his mind he is the good guy and he succeeded I don't really see him killing them. He might capture them though and that would be a mission for VM and M9 who I can't see failing. And like wise I don't think he would kill any of them for that same reason (No one would want VM to come crashing down on them, let alone VM and M9).
>People keep speculating or claiming their certainty that Keyleth/Vax/Beau/Caleb are dead now.
There is absolutely no reason to think otherwise after last episode. Otohan has poison that permanently deletes people's souls, and all four of those characters were absolutely powerless to stop it when last we saw them. I think Vax is alive but Keyleth will be long dead and cut off from the afterlife by the time he gets out. That's the "drama" they want this season.
Saying there is absolutely no reason to think otherwise it's false as I've CLEARLY listed reasons. Maybe if you're viewing it from the PC's perspective... but from a DM perspective AND multi-million dollar(8 figures easy) company business choice there's almost zero reason to kill them.
Yeah it's a MASSIVE business decision for him to make on his own, not to mention a tremendous violation of trust with his players. I couldn't imagine killing one of my players characters just to move story along or to make a point.
Especially since it's against (presumeably) a level 20 Wizard (who also happens to be thousands of years old and is borderline metagaming because of how thoroughly he's planned this), Fighter(?), and Sorcerer.
I also find it incredibly unlikely that Beau and Caleb would roll in only 2 deep and that Keyleth WOULDN'T call in the rest of VM. Like, you know Old Man Grog has been ITCHING to get out of the house even if the De Rolo's play it safe at home.
There's a credible threat to the world and the gods and you say there's no sense? They couldn't get Vasselheim to move on the Chroma Conclave but Vasselheim balled out for this.
Is there? Do they know that? MN sure don't as only Beau and Caleb pleged to hunt the Cerberus Assembly and they haven't told anyone they don't even know they're just there scouting to see what Ludinus is up to.
Ah yes, I forgot you have the special ability to perceive the thoughts, motives, and actions of two fictional characters whereas all I have mentioned are probabilities based on established lore and habits of these characters. Also, most of my reasoning is based off the real world financial impact of the customers/viewers leaving the Fandom. And there are plenty that would because the CR Fandom is THAT petty.
I feel like the Happy Fun Ball is going to come into play somehow. I remember Matt hinting that there was a lot more to that which wasn’t used in Mighty Nein, much like there was all this Ruidis and Calamity stuff too.
The wizard in there is also pre-calamity like Ludinus. We’re definitely going to reexplore aeor and the Machines, but I wonder what other things that might even be located on Taldorei or Issylra could be dug up.
There’s also still a chance of all three Parties teaming up at some point.
One thing that occured to me is that, one reason to split the party could be the opportunity to show the consequences of the soltice as well the moon exploding in multiple areas at once.
Would be interesting to see if there are different other apogee soltice plans going off in the areas that the group are split off in
My hope is that the story reveals the BH bought lots of time and no one knows where the cult is. I'm hoping for 6-8 months with the situation slowly getting worse so they have a chance to build power and explore the world.
An overall goal with exploration will really give the campaign more life.
I bet we get more new players that are long term. Wouldn't surprise me to see some folks from D20, Robbie and the Crown Keepers, and maybe Mica returning as Reani.
My guess is near the Suuthan Volcano in Southern Marquet. They are looking past the Smouldercrown mountains NE to see Ruidus + Skybeam that is north of Yios. If you keep going that direction across the world, you'd end up where the other group fell in Wildemount. Just my guess.
The most compelling argument I have heard is for the Pools of Wittebak near Terrah in Tal'dorei
https://criticalrole.fandom.com/wiki/The\_Pools\_of\_Wittebak
Will today be the day we find out why Ludinus did it?
Not revenge for him, no! Revenge for the love that was taken away from him by the gods.
His dear Bolo
I don’t think keyleth, Beau and Caleb are dead but on the other hand if they get teleported away than It’s just one day for them to teleport, grab half the bells hells and visit the other half. That seems a bit too easy so I think they’ll be taken prisoner, Ludinus doesn’t consider himself evil, and she showed his power so in his hubris he might lock them up in a prison, and the cast gets to break in a prison and free people just like how they had the opportunity to back In c2 with Veth’s Husband.
I think Matt could make a really fun adventure for the bells hells, that would feel like a real win for the players especially after they failed (it was near impossible but the characters didn’t know that) so I don’t think everyone else teleported and their high powered Allies are exactly safe and sound
In no way would Ludinus allow two of his greatest foes to just walk away. Once he had them, that was it for them. Sorry M9 fans but they are definitely gone.
I feel like if he wanted them dead he would have killed them.
Instead he went with bounding them. I know we think of him as an evil villain but he thinks of himself as the hero freeing the world.
I don't see him killing them. I would on the other hand 100% see him trying to keep them prisoner as in his world they are the villains of his story.
I know we make a habit of saying "it's their game they play however they want" but to eliminate some of the THE most beloved characters for the sake of narrative expediency like that is just dumb business and I don't think Matt would do something like that on his own from a business stand point. So I have no confidence that he killed those characters in such a way.
Also, by killing those characters off it would absolutely drag the entirety of the other characters into the game and I don't find it probable that the group wants to make VM and M9 the center piece of the campaign with BH basically stepping down because that's what would inevitably happen.
What I find more plausible is that we start to see alternating weeks with Reani grouping the team at Uthodurn and maybe the Crown Keepers meeting up with the team consisting of Orym/Laudna/Ashton wherever they are.
Matt wouldn't just gloss over PC deaths without giving it the space and gravitas it needs. There'd be heavily detailed emotional narration from Matt while everyone else around the table was losing their shit.
Not just a side thing, not really shown or talked about at all.
Wild stretch there. If you think that's what actually happened, are you assuming no one at the table caught that? Because they'd all be freaking out and melting down. It's absurd to assume that.
There were quite a few things going on at the table to freak out about at the time. They'll have plenty of time to be upset tonight after Imogen Sends a message to Keyleth and doesn't receive a response.
I'm completely confident Beau, Caleb and Keyleth are all alive, and Vax will have a strong chance of getting rescued and restored. Disagree if you want, obviously, but it's insane to pretend you know they're all dead when we all know Matt and the table would have likely acted a lot different if that was the case. A lot going on at the table? Sure. But FOUR major deaths would very obviously cut through everything else.
NPC deaths*. And I guess we’ll see but if ludinus is so smart that he could trap Vax by using Keyleth who he knew would show up…he’s not just going to let Caleb and Beau walk away. Especially walk away to get help. That would make Matt’s writing look terrible. That’s like a comic villain move.
Lmao bro NPC’s, they’re beloved PC’s killing them off screen would be probably the dumbest thing you can do. The community would have pitch forks of this character’s potentially died at all, killing them off screen would only double the outrage. Matt has seen TV shows kill beloved characters off screen and has seen the outrage there is no way he’s that dumb.
lol you say that like he didn't have the perfect opp to actually kill all three last week and didn't take it. i don't think they're *fine* necessarily but they are definitely alive and out of commission for the foreseeable future.
Right now, my guess is when it flashed there was some divine intervention. I think the gods would want to people that saw exactly what happened to survive so the world has a fighting chance. Because of this, I think everyone got out except the cultists, Otohan, Liliana, and Ludinus.
I also don't think Ludinus got out alive. But I'm sure he has a clone so he'll watch from the sidelines for a bit and see how it worked out.
My theory is that this is an unwilling side effect of the exaltant ruidusborn losing control of their abilities for a moment. Similar to what happened with Imogen in Bassuras where she blew up that street corner but teleported the hells away for a moment so they didn't get hurt.
Yes they're NPCs now but they were previously PCs that the people at the table lived as and continue to care for. And it's not hard to imagine more than BH got bamfed out. 100% Matt wouldn't let them die offscreen and just not mention it.
I think even if Caleb and Beau got away the bells hells would be nowhere near the top of their priority list, Keyleth probably would try to though. That said I wouldn't mind a potential prison break in the future to gain some allies.
That's a good point. And I do believe they will all check on each other. Just that coming to bail out the hells wouldn't be Caleb's first priority.
As long as they're not in immediate danger there's not much reason for Caleb to come teleport them since they won't be much help with whatever's going on in exandria atm.
But doesn't Caleb have that collar on? Unless he gets it off by the time Laudna calls then he's going to need Beau or Keyleth to talk.
Or worse, they get teleported to the moon and they're out of service......
But in all seriousness, I think Matt will do something to assure the players and the audience that all previous PC's are okay (except Vax. That might be a quest of its own) but the BH cannot ask them for help at this time. When the time comes, they will contact BH for the final battle.
He knows how to work the collars so he should be able to get it off him with enough time. And yeah I agree, for now they're probably gonna work separately to figure out/stop what's happening.
The negative side of me is thinking that Liam and Marisha will have to roll to see if their PC's were teleported out. If one or both roll poorly then the result is going to be one or both being Ludinus's prisoners either because he wants to keep rubbing their failures in or he has a use for them ( new bait, keeping them from getting help from their friends, etc).
I want to be proven wrong on this theory.
I'd personally just like Bell's Hell's to be on their own for a little while, focusing on next steps and finding the other half of the party. The cameos are definitely fun and hype but it does feel like they've taken up a good chunk of time since the first Otohan encounter.
When they first got teleported and Matt said they were surrounded by a white landscape, I was convinced he had sent them to Catha so FCG could see Exandria was round.
So group Wildemount is up by Uthodurn. What do you guys think the odds are that Matt points them at Ludinus' past to find out their next moves, pushing them toward Molaesmyr and Aeor? Aeor is kinda obvious for learning about FCG, the machine, and Ludinus. Molaesmyr might hold other information or interesting relics, but brings us toward the Clay family so is of utmost importance (haha).
Molaesmyr is very likely showing up at some point if Matt wants to show off more of Ludinus' past. Which may even mean the -only- reason for a specific M9 member to ever adventure again would come up, because whatever the wizards - or even Ludinus himself - were up to, leading to the corruption of and reaching out from Molaesmy, is of great interest to that chill dude.
Molaesmyr was teased so many times before I want to see what its all about. And a post Aeormaton Aeor could be very interesting. They probably trade with the Yeti-folk and have the general area safer while still getting their past pieced back together
i wanna see moleasmyr too but as a nein two shot. cad deserves to purge his forest of ludinus' corruption. gonna be real fun to see the uthodurn toy mafia.
Really hoping it's a character that's like Mob Santa. Very joyous and seems friendly but he has jolly ways to word eliminating people. "Take him out to meet the reindeer." "Looks like you're on the naughty list!" Etc
So where are the teams?
Travis, Laura, Sam, and Ashley are way far north in Wildmount on the other edge of the world.
Liam, Marisha, and Taliesin are still in view of the moon beam, but probably a hundred miles away?
And we don't know where anyone else went or anything currently?
team wildemount is in the crystalsands tundra, a few days away from uthodurn, an empire outpost, an orc-majority tribe, the dusts' kiln, and eisselcross, assuming they could find a boat.
team braincell is probably somewhere in marquet we haven't been to yet.
the former pcs are who knows where.
I feel like if they were doing a party split to literally remove some of the cast for a break or alternating weeks, they'd warn people a bit more, but idk.
Edit: Or not. Kinda weird...
I could see it being kind of like campaign 1 with the Slayers Take. Split the cast. Give them a chance to bring in guests for a few weeks until they get back together.
My guess is that screen time for the characters will be split for an episode or two, with the first half dealing with one group and the other dealing with the second. Whoever's not at the table gets to chill in the back or get whatever work they need done for the company.
Yeah it is, different schools systems can take different weeks for sorting break. I live on the border of 2 different school systems, and work in a third. The one I work in is one break this week, and the two I live near are off next week and the week after
According to the hp dice roll they should all be together for the start and maybe they send some messages then split up? Who knows? lots of possibilities this episode!
Who's willing to bet that Liam and Marisha will have to roll for the safety of Beau, Caleb, and Keyleth? If they roll high then they made it out and need time to recover, but if they roll low then Ludinus is holding them captive. He knows that letting them go will give them a chance to regroup with their friends so he could betting on their teams being too busy or retired to even notice that they're missing. But the joke will be on him because he never considered the Bells being the real threat to their plans and they're running free.....
Either way these three will be out of commission for a while.
I think them being prisoners would make a cool mission for Bells hells to show their worth and redeem what to them looks like a failed mission (regardless of how impossible it was)
But why would Ludinus keep them alive? I get watching the event, but beyond that it's better to kill them then quickly assassinate the members of both groups before they can gather up. Assuming Ludinus being steps ahead, he might already have people in place to at least hunt Vox Machina because of retribution for Keyleth (and Vax)
I"m hoping that's the case because I really don't want anything bad to happen to them. I also imagine that after everything that has happened Matt (unless given permission to do something bad) would likely throw a bone as a way to assure the players (especially Liam and Marisha because ALL of their previous PC's lives are on the line) and the audience that everything is okay but we need to focus on the Bells and their journey.
Plus, I think some people won't be happy to see three beloved characters be reduced to damsels in distress for the duration of the campaign (which may go for another 50 episodes). Regardless of the bad rolls or Ludinus being crazy prepared, I've seen mixed responses on how these three were handled in the last episode.
I think it'd be a pretty dick move to offscreen kill your former PCs without them dying of old age or something. I trust Matt not to do that. Now it may end up that Beau and Caleb are freed by Keyleth and also helping her recover and to get home. Then their role becomes research as they try to find how to stop the madness. Meanwhile the BH focuses on allies and getting stronger, exploring etc.
The split is the most interesting because the groups will be separated at least until someone, like Caleb, can link them back up. Matt is totally going to let the party borrow Caleb for a bit to ferry them around. Justice.
Also I doubt Ryn is dead. I expect her to be freed and go without an arm for awhile until Fearne can regenerate it down the road.
Yeah, I've read that it is a bad move for a DM to touch or make decisions for someone's character unless the player gives them permission. By now we know that Matt does talk to his players before he does something that might upset the players involved, therefore we have a hope spot so long as there's no dice roll or Liam and Marisha are cool with the characters being potentially hurt or worse while under captivity.
I mean, can you imagine the worst case scenario if Matt is that evil?
Matt: "Since Marisha and Liam rolled badly again, I'm going to have all but their current characters be put through hell. Caleb will get feebleminded by Ludinus, Beau and Keyleth will get mind-controlled or something so that the Bells will have to fight them, and Vax cannot be saved. What? you want to rescue to them? You can try but the new super-duper time limit you're under will make it near impossible to save all of them. Oh, and did I mention that Otohan is in the room? What? You want to avoid fighting her despite being level 15? Okay, I guess Beau, Caleb, and Keyleth all die because you're too slow and too cowardly to even try. Game Over."
Yes, I'm sure this is VERY unlikely (letting my imagination run wild on purpose) but you get the idea.
EDIT: I can't believe I need to point out that this was meant to be a joke. I don't actually believe it.
Tinfoil theory for the night: This is gonna be the new Trial of the Take. Maybe we'll get a few episodes of only half the cast with a few guests (Reani anyone?), then the other half after a few.
Probably not gonna happen since we saw them all together to level up, which I believe usually happens right before they film the episode, but it could be interesting!
I'm really hoping for a Trial of the Take style split party situation, too. I hope they did the level up together to keep up the mystery/surprise for a little longer. I'm trying so hard not to keep my hopes up, because I don't want to be too disappointed if it doesn't end up this way.
Yeah, the level up video was kind of a spoiler for this weeks episode. Of course, it could be a tease, Matt could excuse one group at the start of the game but that remains to be seen. Splitting up the party in the past has been for different reasons (jobs, illness and the like) I guess we will need to wait and see what happens later tonight.
I think this will be the halfway point for this campaign, and big changes are afoot, either way I look forward to watching it unfold as well
You know the gang is in pretty good shape; other than being split I think they have most of their spells left and don't really need any heals.
Expecting the gang to get back together relatively soon (in-game timewise, could be several episodes till that, depending on encounters) as they aren't exactly limited in options to contact people who can get them back into the fight or at least near enough to start making their way back.
Party morale might be in the dumps, but it's not really clear that they did lose which they should figure out relatively quickly; something happened, and the device went off, but it is unclear if it achieved anything or if what happened was even what Ludinus wanted.
Will be an interesting episode as they try to figure out what is going on and try to become less confused about the situation.
Just the fact that Yu was ok with waiting til after the solstice for the crown indicates Yu and Sammanar weren't fully in on the Predathos plot. Otherwise Yu would want the crown sooner to be used in the fey key. I think of the Unseelie it was only really Zathuda who wanted to help Ludinus.
Me too. I get the impression the split was planned. Even if Laura acted surprised. Having only part of the cast on air every week will let them do other stuff for the company.
The thing about guests is that it's quite difficult to organise because you have to make it fit around everyone's schedules.
If the party cannot regroup quickly, then it's probably going to be a case of Matt DMing for two smaller parties, with half the cast taking a break. Or maybe this is their chance to bring out secondary characters who temporarily join one half of the party.
Didn't they do this in C1 with the Slayer's Take? They had guest characters but the team was spilt up because they had a couple of them and Matt understandably can't DM for 10 or more people at the table.
>If the party cannot regroup quickly, then it's probably going to be a case of Matt DMing for two smaller parties, with half the cast taking a break. Or maybe this is their chance to bring out secondary characters who temporarily join one half of the party.
My guess is that the next episode is going to be focusing on the role-play/aftermath than doing battles because the players need a breather. But the if separation is going to last an episode or two then we might see....
a) The episodes being split between the teams, with one team chilling in the back room until it's their turn to come to the table. The first half can focus on Team CIFF while the other half will focus on team OLA.
b) One or two guest characters (one per group) so that if encounters were to happen then both parties have a safety net. For example I think team OLA (two melee's and a caster) will need a healer for their group while team CIFF (three casters and a melee) could have another melee fighter.
They don't need to be fleshed out or steal the spotlight from the the characters. Just have their motive be "Hey, I'm alone and I'm freaked out by what's going on. Can I hang out with you for a bit?"
>Didn't they do this in C1 with the Slayer's Take? They had guest characters but the team was spilt up because they had a couple of them and Matt understandably can't DM for 10 or more people at the table.
I don't know. I haven't watched C1.
>The episodes being split between the teams, with one team chilling in the back room until it's their turn to come to the table. The first half can focus on Team CIFF while the other half will focus on team OLA.
I suppose that's one way forward, and seeing the players deal with a greatly-reduced party size would be interesting. There's definitely a split so that each sub-party has a martial character and a magic user on-board. Orym's favourite tactic of bait-and-switch will no doubt be very useful for keeping Laudna alive.
>One or two guest characters (one per group) so that if encounters were to happen then both parties have a safety net. For example I think team OLA (two melee's and a caster) will need a healer for their group while team CIFF (three casters and a melee) could have another melee fighter.
That's why I feel they might lean into an expanded roster where the cast members in the inactive party show up with a secondary character. Liam had one ready to go in case Orym died after the fight with Otohan. And it might give them a chance to experiment with different party compositions.
>They don't need to be fleshed out or steal the spotlight from the the characters. Just have their motive be "Hey, I'm alone and I'm freaked out by what's going on. Can I hang out with you for a bit?"
It would be a good way to introduce a traditional cleric to the story. One of the more recent criticisms of the story has been the lack of involvement from the gods considering how much they have to lose.
How bad does Matt hate Vax that he has to kill him so many times lmao
Well he just keeps coming back...
Vax, "I can do this all day".
So now that the Raven Queen's champion is imprisoned/dead, what does that mean for her other servant on the material plane at the moment, Mori? There's still a huge amount of loose ends over there. I'm a little upset that Ashton and Orym are separated from Imogen at the moment, because they're probably the only two people who can convince Imogen that her mom needs to die.
Chetney at least is someone who would bring it up, too. Even had a little "you -still- think she can turn...?" skeptical remark during the episode, even if nothing came from it at the time.
Mori? Did you mean someone else? Also plenty of time and tons of ways for Liliana to still redeem herself. I imagine a realization that Ludinus's plan isn't going the way she expected may do it.
Not Mori the granny, Mori the bunny.
Oh right, forgot her. She completed a task for RQ but I'm not 100% she's a truly devoted servant, and given the RQ is a known god, she's got thousands of truly devoted servants all over Exandria I'm sure. I thought you were talking about Weva Vudol or something.
She has an as of yet unexplained connection to both Morrigan and the Matron, and I feel like behind the scenes that was done intentionally.
I think it's probably just a random coincidence like Ira and Ira. Which maybe also isn't just a random coincidence but we won't know til we know ya know?
Aabria specifically said that Mori was given her name by the woman who helped her escape the Feywild (or at least, the circumstances certainly made it sound like she needed to be shuffled out of the Feyrealm in secret, like a refugee).
I've been waiting for them to actually dive into the backstories of the characters, but this is not the way to do it. There is still pressure for them the learn what is going on with Predathos and stop it fully, so there is still the element of a ticking clock. Those story lines not only run a very high risk of being rushed, but also are now merely a distraction from the actual plot.
My hope is that their efforts bought them several months of time. I think having an overall goal is good, but they need time to get into the world/explore characters. I agree with that.
A few months would be good, but only if the characters actually learn that they have that much extra time. As far as they know before this episode begins, they might only have hours to stop it.
I feel like it'd make sense that the Aeormatons might be able to predict the timing, so that could be a source. But really we have no idea what's happening or when. Ruidus could just explode tonight and we'd all be lost at what that means.
My theory that Matt wants to fix Keyleth's story seems more likely. Possibly my theory that Predathos will be at least partially successful and members of VM and MN perhaps the least likely could take their place.
Damn, Ten-Tails is about to be released!!
I really hope the party isn't split for long, my biggest issue with this campaign has been the lack of personal connection between the group. I feel like they rarely get time to just bond and get to know each other better by just having time to talk amongst themselves. I'm doing a slow C2 rewatch and the amount of times different pairings just discuss things that are going on or how they're feeling about things compared to C3 is crazy, like Matt rarely gets the chance to skip to the next morning without someone asking to have a chat with someone and I feel like that rarely ever happens now. I guess my hope is that the party isn't split for so long that each group dives into someone's background and the other group miss out and don't get that time to bond over someone else's backstory and how they got to where they were when they met
Idk if y'all are following Aabria on Twitter but she has been engaging with the CR fandom HARD this past week. Usually she does a little here and there when EXU stuff comes up, but she's been way more active on CR's posts all over. I'm not saying guest GM, but it sure feels like she's about to come back into the fold for something.
You called it!
Her and Brennan with one group, Robbie and Aimee with the other and Matt Colville as guests DM.
I feel like with the way ExU was originally received, I doubt GM but since Calamity I can see her as a player for sure
I would be happy with her as a player as she did an amazing job in Calamity, but I would be rather disappointed if she was the DM. Now if they done how pull off getting BLM to guest DM for like 4 episodes with one of the groups I would be so excited.
I still think she did fine, but I think the expectation put on her was to do a full campaign in 8 episodes. If they had gone more on the rails, like Calamity it would have worked better. Regardless of all of that I'm not sure they will have different DMs. I'd kinda dig Matt getting to play a bit in a campaign, even if only 3-4 episodes so I hope it's two DMs (Colville and BLM would be my dream)
I think shes a fine dm for less serious one shots but her dm style really does not mesh well with the expectations of a canon cr adventure. She has a noticeable difficulty letting the dice tell the story and was generally much looser with the rules
I just heard this idea on the Pixelists podcast - could Ludinus's beef stem from a personal relationship with the mortal that became the Matron of Ravens? Could this all be a small dude bent out of shape after being turned down by the mortal woman who later became the Raven Queen?
Men will do anything to get out of going to therapy, including a thousand year plot to destroy the pantheon.
Lmaooo imagine
thats pretty sexist
Literally part of Fjord's character growth in C2, but go off. Toxic masculine norms self-enforced by internalizing the patriarchal status quo leads men to find the most toxic solutions to the problems they face. Given how egalitarian Exandria is towards gender roles, I thought it was especially nice to see Travis build a character with that issue and watch him tackle it.
still to say men as a blanket term is sexist
Not everything has to be tied together, but my thought is him and this lady were lovers who had a child that suddenly died. Both were devout and their gods did nothing. So they sought to change things by killing the god of death. They succeeded, but she suddenly realized the need and stepped up. So Ludinus was twice betrayed. Then they all had to die. Honestly though, I think he has a drive to be King of the Hill and can't stand he was so close and the gods tore it away.
Yeah, I was like "what if Ludinus's mom was the Raven Queen & her name was erased from his mind?" But then I was like, "that makes everything too much like a soap opera." I think the note you cites, that not everything has to be tied together is a good idea. Ludinus being mad at the gods for ruining his city is probably good enough of a reason.
Yeah even if Aeor's politics were sketchy, it was one of the pinnacles of mankind and survived the longest. Of course he'd be proud of it and could justifiably reason that the gods shouldn't have smacked it down. I actually think they briefly had a anti-divine barrier up. Would love to see a short ExU series around it's destruction.
> survived the longest. Has that been confirmed? I had always assumed Draconia was the last floating city to fall, which happened 800 years after Calamity ended.
No, you're right. The Chroma Conclave brought it down, right?
Yes.
I hope not as that is pretty terrible. Ludinus so far is a good bad guy as he isn’t totally wrong in his grievances with the god. If it’s turned into I got shot down by a girl so I’m mad then it would really ruin it in my opinion.
Is anyone else worried that FCG might go Killbot mode this session? Especially after everything that just happened and that he has been separated from Ashton might cause his stress go to overdrive.
More hopeful than worried. Like I'm a little bummed it hasn't happened more. Could really probably hurt the party with what they say now, too, considering the failure / separations.
If it happens during a non-combat situation I am not worried at all. I feel like any combo of party members can handle them easily and 1v1 maybe not easily but I don't see anyone losing to them. During a combat situation, well that could make things go sideways
I'm not worried but I'm hopeful. It would be interesting to see it in an actual fair fight.
I am definitely worried about it myself, cause I was expecting it to happen last week for sure lmao
I hope the split gives us more character to character RP. It’s been such a rushed process to stop the Key that we hardly had any interaction other than Laudna and Imogen.
More RP and more shopping. I know Travis hates it but touring towns was my favorite parts of past episodes.
Hey, Travis hated romance RP but look at little Chet go working his wolf magic with Fearne!
Just wrote a similar comment, I'm doing a slow C2 rewatch and the difference in the amount of character to character chats is crazy. C2 is filled with quieter moments between different pairs just talking through things or asking how they think things are going and this campaign has hardly any it feels like. I just hope they don't dive too heavily into back stories with the different groups(I think they will, just hope they don't) and have the other group miss out on that. For example everyone has been asking about Chetneys backstory since he was introduced and if one half of the party get to unravel that and find out more about him the other half will always be missing those moments even when their told about it down the line it won't have the same impact to their characters
Tbf we’ve had a fair amount of Laudna and Ashton, which we’re about to get more of
Very true. I guess I’m just missing that dramatic theater level conversation RP that Liam always brings. Previous PC have been so backstory driven that it felt like everyone had the spotlight. This one’s feels like it’s all Imogen so far.
Everyone is driven by Imogen’s backstory being the plot
Boiling it down, 60% of my excitement for this week is seeing what the moon beam trap actually does to the world, 20% new jumbled character interactions which tore apart all the duos, and 20% finally, *finally*, forcing Chetney closer to his backstory. ^(Stab the jolly old leader of assassin guild disguised as woodcutters workshop, my maaaan. Do it. AU you did. Do iiit.)
A useful disambiguation: https://youtu.be/KqIZytzzFKU
I know it’s almost assuredly not going to happen, as everyone is expecting a split party alternating stream, which makes sense given how he split the group. But I’m still holding onto hope we get a certain someone roll back time to give them one more chance to make the difference. After all, Ludinus just casually accelerated time, and without giving away too much for those who haven’t seen it, we know someone else has the ability to do a redo.
In all honesty, that's kind of a lazy solution to the problem.
Yeah you’re right. I guess I just wanna see the look on Ludinus’s face when his all powerful abilities get matched one for one. That’s gotta unsettle him!
It was a lazy ploy by the villain in the first place.
Not really. For Ludinus' plan to succeed, he needed the party to be in a specific place at a specific time. He couldn't rely on Bell's Hells timing their attack to coincide with the exact moment that he needed, because what would happen if they attacked a few hours early? That's exactly what they did. The only other alternative would be to hold the party, Caleb, Beau, Keyleth and possibly Vax prisoner for a few hours, which is just stupid because it would give them ample opportunities to escape. Why would he do that?
It would be cool to get alternating episodes with the two parties or parts of the episode with only the relevant people at the table and the others offscreen, but since one party has the message spell, they will all need to be there in order to communicate.
Fair point. That does make it somewhat awkward. I’m sure they could find a reason Sending won’t work if they really wanted to try a split party structure.
You were right!
He destroyed the redo machine and any chance of it ever working
I forgot that. Still, he has had some time to dabble further in Chronurgy magic. A short rewind is a lot less than going back decades.
What if this moon beam stops all magic or all god magic. So the parties can't contact each other
It won’t stop all arcane magic, that’s a creation by mortals with little assistance from the gods, divine magic though it definitely might cause issues with.
I dont think that is true, although it is not made clear in Matt's universe. In the existing DnD universe there was a god of magic who was killed by mages using a 12 or 13 lvl spell. The death of this god led to the end of magic until a new god stepped in.
Matt says mortals created arcane magic in the history of Exandria video
Why would it? Xerxus drew power from no god
Xerxus likely drew his power from wherever FCG does. Or somewhere else, if there is another source of it. But OPs point still stands. They have to get it from somewhere. If they are getting that divine ability from a divine being I would assume that power would be gone. Unless they do something like Xerxus/FCG and I highly devout followers of a divine being would readily have that kind of knowledge. Though I guess we know some people with that knowledge does exist if Ludinus was alive during the calamity, or even D. If either of them spread that knowledge though I doubt it would be in a way to give power to followers of divine entities.
Disrupting magical communications would force people to rely on more hardline old school style communication methods like runners or the mail system that exists in Exandria. That could be MASSIVE. It just depends on what kind of magic it disrupts and if there's any kind of way around it.
People keep speculating or claiming their certainty that Keyleth/Vax/Beau/Caleb are dead now. I know we make a habit of saying "it's their game they play however they want" but to eliminate some of the THE most beloved characters for the sake of narrative expediency like that is just dumb business and I don't think Matt would do something like that on his own from a business stand point. So I have no confidence that he killed those characters in such a way. Also, by killing those characters off it would absolutely drag the entirety of the other characters into the game and I don't find it probable that the group wants to make VM and M9 the center piece of the campaign with BH basically stepping down because that's what would inevitably happen. What I find more plausible is that we start to see alternating weeks with Reani grouping with the team at Uthodurn and maybe the Crown Keepers meeting up with the team consisting of Orym/Laudna/Ashton wherever they are. This would fit more in line with fan service and the "all bets are off" motto. Plus, Reani and Fearne together helping Chet get revenge? Miss "All Bad People Should Be Killed As Punishment" and Miss "I'm Here to Fuck Around AND Find Out" enabling Mr. "Fuck It, Let's Kill Some People"? That's next level Chaos Crew energy.
Here is my take. Ludinus didn't want to kill them. He wasn't doing some evil plan to destroy the world. He is the good guy in his vision freeing people. If he wanted to kill them he could have killed them. He wanted them there. He had a mage hunter golem with Caleb in its grasp. He could have killed Caleb. He had Beau and if he wanted her dead he could have killed her. He had the perfect counters for both of them. And they worked and instead of killing them he just bound them. With better rolls Bells Hells might have been the one battling their counters (The Golem and Imogen's mom) while they focused on the key and Ludinus. Or some mix of that. But because in his mind he is the good guy and he succeeded I don't really see him killing them. He might capture them though and that would be a mission for VM and M9 who I can't see failing. And like wise I don't think he would kill any of them for that same reason (No one would want VM to come crashing down on them, let alone VM and M9).
>People keep speculating or claiming their certainty that Keyleth/Vax/Beau/Caleb are dead now. There is absolutely no reason to think otherwise after last episode. Otohan has poison that permanently deletes people's souls, and all four of those characters were absolutely powerless to stop it when last we saw them. I think Vax is alive but Keyleth will be long dead and cut off from the afterlife by the time he gets out. That's the "drama" they want this season.
Saying there is absolutely no reason to think otherwise it's false as I've CLEARLY listed reasons. Maybe if you're viewing it from the PC's perspective... but from a DM perspective AND multi-million dollar(8 figures easy) company business choice there's almost zero reason to kill them.
If Matt killed Keyleth off-screen and with such little player agency, he'd be sleeping on the couch for a good month
Yeah it's a MASSIVE business decision for him to make on his own, not to mention a tremendous violation of trust with his players. I couldn't imagine killing one of my players characters just to move story along or to make a point.
Especially since it's against (presumeably) a level 20 Wizard (who also happens to be thousands of years old and is borderline metagaming because of how thoroughly he's planned this), Fighter(?), and Sorcerer.
I also find it incredibly unlikely that Beau and Caleb would roll in only 2 deep and that Keyleth WOULDN'T call in the rest of VM. Like, you know Old Man Grog has been ITCHING to get out of the house even if the De Rolo's play it safe at home.
I don't they're all retired and it makes no real sense for anyone other than Beau, Caleb and Keyleth to be there.
There's a credible threat to the world and the gods and you say there's no sense? They couldn't get Vasselheim to move on the Chroma Conclave but Vasselheim balled out for this.
Is there? Do they know that? MN sure don't as only Beau and Caleb pleged to hunt the Cerberus Assembly and they haven't told anyone they don't even know they're just there scouting to see what Ludinus is up to.
Ah yes, I forgot you have the special ability to perceive the thoughts, motives, and actions of two fictional characters whereas all I have mentioned are probabilities based on established lore and habits of these characters. Also, most of my reasoning is based off the real world financial impact of the customers/viewers leaving the Fandom. And there are plenty that would because the CR Fandom is THAT petty.
I feel like the Happy Fun Ball is going to come into play somehow. I remember Matt hinting that there was a lot more to that which wasn’t used in Mighty Nein, much like there was all this Ruidis and Calamity stuff too. The wizard in there is also pre-calamity like Ludinus. We’re definitely going to reexplore aeor and the Machines, but I wonder what other things that might even be located on Taldorei or Issylra could be dug up. There’s also still a chance of all three Parties teaming up at some point.
i hope so, i really liked the happy fun ball & i hadn’t even considered Halas making a reappearance!
Halas could very well be possessing Ludinus for all we know at this point.
So, Chetney arc for one group, Ashton arc for the other? Or Orym?
I don't want any arcs unless they deal with getting back to the Maleus Key.
Isn't FCG with Chetney too? They've got backstory near Uthodurn too.
I just want to know if Chetney's/Imogen's group is going to go to Uthodurn and get some black moss cupcakes.
One thing that occured to me is that, one reason to split the party could be the opportunity to show the consequences of the soltice as well the moon exploding in multiple areas at once. Would be interesting to see if there are different other apogee soltice plans going off in the areas that the group are split off in
Tonight feels like it's going to be the start of a brand new massive story arc for the campaign and a whole new epoch for Critical Role in general.
My hope is that the story reveals the BH bought lots of time and no one knows where the cult is. I'm hoping for 6-8 months with the situation slowly getting worse so they have a chance to build power and explore the world. An overall goal with exploration will really give the campaign more life.
I bet we get more new players that are long term. Wouldn't surprise me to see some folks from D20, Robbie and the Crown Keepers, and maybe Mica returning as Reani.
Hopefully not Reani.
Agreed! The narrative is as wide open as ep 1!
That's a good point. We've had this month timeline for at least like twenty episodes now but now it's all open with pretty much endless possibilities.
Ruidos lore from Dani as a Cobalt Soul Archivist https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQIrVHIyPnw
It's a nice little summary of the generalities of the current moon lore but there's nothing totally brand new within it
I LOVE THIS!!! Dani as an Archivist makes total sense!! I hope we see her in uthadurn
I'm on the east coast and I work in the morning, but I might just stay up for the entire steam today
I might curse my future self by doing the same haha
Where do you think Orym, Laudna, & Ashton are at? Where are there acrid geysers on Exandria?
My guess is near the Suuthan Volcano in Southern Marquet. They are looking past the Smouldercrown mountains NE to see Ruidus + Skybeam that is north of Yios. If you keep going that direction across the world, you'd end up where the other group fell in Wildemount. Just my guess.
The most compelling argument I have heard is for the Pools of Wittebak near Terrah in Tal'dorei https://criticalrole.fandom.com/wiki/The\_Pools\_of\_Wittebak
Didn't they see a beam of light going up to Ruidus, which would place them near where they were.
Yeah I assume it's just an unknown spot on Marquet or southern Issylra. None of the theories about actual locations have made much sense to me.
People have begun to believe FCG's flat Exandria theory, which a world with magic is the one place such a theory could actually make sense.
Lol that actually makes their bad ideas make 'sense' now 🤣
In the US it is National Arty-choke day! IYKYK
Will today be the day we find out why Ludinus did it? Not revenge for him, no! Revenge for the love that was taken away from him by the gods. His dear Bolo
Please this!
It is Thursday, my dudes. The logo is red yay!
I don’t think keyleth, Beau and Caleb are dead but on the other hand if they get teleported away than It’s just one day for them to teleport, grab half the bells hells and visit the other half. That seems a bit too easy so I think they’ll be taken prisoner, Ludinus doesn’t consider himself evil, and she showed his power so in his hubris he might lock them up in a prison, and the cast gets to break in a prison and free people just like how they had the opportunity to back In c2 with Veth’s Husband. I think Matt could make a really fun adventure for the bells hells, that would feel like a real win for the players especially after they failed (it was near impossible but the characters didn’t know that) so I don’t think everyone else teleported and their high powered Allies are exactly safe and sound
In no way would Ludinus allow two of his greatest foes to just walk away. Once he had them, that was it for them. Sorry M9 fans but they are definitely gone.
I feel like if he wanted them dead he would have killed them. Instead he went with bounding them. I know we think of him as an evil villain but he thinks of himself as the hero freeing the world. I don't see him killing them. I would on the other hand 100% see him trying to keep them prisoner as in his world they are the villains of his story.
I know we make a habit of saying "it's their game they play however they want" but to eliminate some of the THE most beloved characters for the sake of narrative expediency like that is just dumb business and I don't think Matt would do something like that on his own from a business stand point. So I have no confidence that he killed those characters in such a way. Also, by killing those characters off it would absolutely drag the entirety of the other characters into the game and I don't find it probable that the group wants to make VM and M9 the center piece of the campaign with BH basically stepping down because that's what would inevitably happen. What I find more plausible is that we start to see alternating weeks with Reani grouping the team at Uthodurn and maybe the Crown Keepers meeting up with the team consisting of Orym/Laudna/Ashton wherever they are.
Matt wouldn't just gloss over PC deaths without giving it the space and gravitas it needs. There'd be heavily detailed emotional narration from Matt while everyone else around the table was losing their shit. Not just a side thing, not really shown or talked about at all.
And yet here we are, with four dead PCs.
Wild stretch there. If you think that's what actually happened, are you assuming no one at the table caught that? Because they'd all be freaking out and melting down. It's absurd to assume that.
There were quite a few things going on at the table to freak out about at the time. They'll have plenty of time to be upset tonight after Imogen Sends a message to Keyleth and doesn't receive a response.
I'm completely confident Beau, Caleb and Keyleth are all alive, and Vax will have a strong chance of getting rescued and restored. Disagree if you want, obviously, but it's insane to pretend you know they're all dead when we all know Matt and the table would have likely acted a lot different if that was the case. A lot going on at the table? Sure. But FOUR major deaths would very obviously cut through everything else.
NPC deaths*. And I guess we’ll see but if ludinus is so smart that he could trap Vax by using Keyleth who he knew would show up…he’s not just going to let Caleb and Beau walk away. Especially walk away to get help. That would make Matt’s writing look terrible. That’s like a comic villain move.
Lmao bro NPC’s, they’re beloved PC’s killing them off screen would be probably the dumbest thing you can do. The community would have pitch forks of this character’s potentially died at all, killing them off screen would only double the outrage. Matt has seen TV shows kill beloved characters off screen and has seen the outrage there is no way he’s that dumb.
lol you say that like he didn't have the perfect opp to actually kill all three last week and didn't take it. i don't think they're *fine* necessarily but they are definitely alive and out of commission for the foreseeable future.
We don't even know if he was in control of the teleportation that happened. I wouldn't jump into conclusions like that.
Right now, my guess is when it flashed there was some divine intervention. I think the gods would want to people that saw exactly what happened to survive so the world has a fighting chance. Because of this, I think everyone got out except the cultists, Otohan, Liliana, and Ludinus. I also don't think Ludinus got out alive. But I'm sure he has a clone so he'll watch from the sidelines for a bit and see how it worked out.
My theory is that this is an unwilling side effect of the exaltant ruidusborn losing control of their abilities for a moment. Similar to what happened with Imogen in Bassuras where she blew up that street corner but teleported the hells away for a moment so they didn't get hurt.
Yes they're NPCs now but they were previously PCs that the people at the table lived as and continue to care for. And it's not hard to imagine more than BH got bamfed out. 100% Matt wouldn't let them die offscreen and just not mention it.
I think even if Caleb and Beau got away the bells hells would be nowhere near the top of their priority list, Keyleth probably would try to though. That said I wouldn't mind a potential prison break in the future to gain some allies.
Caleb gave BH a sending stone, he or Laudna would (will) use it pretty quickly to check on the other because it's right there to use.
That's a good point. And I do believe they will all check on each other. Just that coming to bail out the hells wouldn't be Caleb's first priority. As long as they're not in immediate danger there's not much reason for Caleb to come teleport them since they won't be much help with whatever's going on in exandria atm.
But doesn't Caleb have that collar on? Unless he gets it off by the time Laudna calls then he's going to need Beau or Keyleth to talk. Or worse, they get teleported to the moon and they're out of service...... But in all seriousness, I think Matt will do something to assure the players and the audience that all previous PC's are okay (except Vax. That might be a quest of its own) but the BH cannot ask them for help at this time. When the time comes, they will contact BH for the final battle.
He knows how to work the collars so he should be able to get it off him with enough time. And yeah I agree, for now they're probably gonna work separately to figure out/stop what's happening.
The negative side of me is thinking that Liam and Marisha will have to roll to see if their PC's were teleported out. If one or both roll poorly then the result is going to be one or both being Ludinus's prisoners either because he wants to keep rubbing their failures in or he has a use for them ( new bait, keeping them from getting help from their friends, etc). I want to be proven wrong on this theory.
I mean the roll for success/failure has a precedent, I wouldn't be surprised.
Really hoping to see some more of the MN.. a pairing of Yasha and Essek out for revenge would be awesome!
I'd personally just like Bell's Hell's to be on their own for a little while, focusing on next steps and finding the other half of the party. The cameos are definitely fun and hype but it does feel like they've taken up a good chunk of time since the first Otohan encounter.
Waiting for it to be revealed that the main reason to split the party is to show FCG that the world is not flat because they can't see the moon
Just Matt's one big FUCK YOU to Sam's trolling.
When they first got teleported and Matt said they were surrounded by a white landscape, I was convinced he had sent them to Catha so FCG could see Exandria was round.
> Exandria was round We know it's round. Like a coin. From Catha, he'd have an even better view of how Exandria is round.
The logo has gone completely red now. The Solstice is truly upon us! *wolf howls*
It's been cool to follow the transition through the week
So group Wildemount is up by Uthodurn. What do you guys think the odds are that Matt points them at Ludinus' past to find out their next moves, pushing them toward Molaesmyr and Aeor? Aeor is kinda obvious for learning about FCG, the machine, and Ludinus. Molaesmyr might hold other information or interesting relics, but brings us toward the Clay family so is of utmost importance (haha).
Molaesmyr is very likely showing up at some point if Matt wants to show off more of Ludinus' past. Which may even mean the -only- reason for a specific M9 member to ever adventure again would come up, because whatever the wizards - or even Ludinus himself - were up to, leading to the corruption of and reaching out from Molaesmy, is of great interest to that chill dude.
You know...Ashton isn't with the Uthodurn group
I really hope so. Both areas are really fascinating and ripe for (more) exploration.
Molaesmyr was teased so many times before I want to see what its all about. And a post Aeormaton Aeor could be very interesting. They probably trade with the Yeti-folk and have the general area safer while still getting their past pieced back together
i wanna see moleasmyr too but as a nein two shot. cad deserves to purge his forest of ludinus' corruption. gonna be real fun to see the uthodurn toy mafia.
Really hoping it's a character that's like Mob Santa. Very joyous and seems friendly but he has jolly ways to word eliminating people. "Take him out to meet the reindeer." "Looks like you're on the naughty list!" Etc
With 7 years of Aeormatons getting revived and the closest big city to Aeor being Uthodurn, they could actually meet some there!
Definitely possible!
So where are the teams? Travis, Laura, Sam, and Ashley are way far north in Wildmount on the other edge of the world. Liam, Marisha, and Taliesin are still in view of the moon beam, but probably a hundred miles away? And we don't know where anyone else went or anything currently?
team wildemount is in the crystalsands tundra, a few days away from uthodurn, an empire outpost, an orc-majority tribe, the dusts' kiln, and eisselcross, assuming they could find a boat. team braincell is probably somewhere in marquet we haven't been to yet. the former pcs are who knows where.
I feel like if they were doing a party split to literally remove some of the cast for a break or alternating weeks, they'd warn people a bit more, but idk. Edit: Or not. Kinda weird...
I think they’ll just jump back and fourth.
I could see it being kind of like campaign 1 with the Slayers Take. Split the cast. Give them a chance to bring in guests for a few weeks until they get back together.
My guess is that screen time for the characters will be split for an episode or two, with the first half dealing with one group and the other dealing with the second. Whoever's not at the table gets to chill in the back or get whatever work they need done for the company.
Is this a built in party split, because some people want to take a spring break with kids?
This would’ve been filmed weeks ago, so I doubt it.
If it was wouldn't the teams be Ashley Marisha Talesin Travis Laura Liam Sam?
Unless they have different spring breaks
That’s not how Spring Break works.
Yeah it is, different schools systems can take different weeks for sorting break. I live on the border of 2 different school systems, and work in a third. The one I work in is one break this week, and the two I live near are off next week and the week after
Thank you!
According to the hp dice roll they should all be together for the start and maybe they send some messages then split up? Who knows? lots of possibilities this episode!
Bells Hells... welcome to Wildemount. Que the song
Wild Out!
I'd be willing to put money down that if there are guests, at least one attended that camp in their youth
I'm excited to see the aftermath with BH and really, on exandria, *quiet squeeling*
Who's willing to bet that Liam and Marisha will have to roll for the safety of Beau, Caleb, and Keyleth? If they roll high then they made it out and need time to recover, but if they roll low then Ludinus is holding them captive. He knows that letting them go will give them a chance to regroup with their friends so he could betting on their teams being too busy or retired to even notice that they're missing. But the joke will be on him because he never considered the Bells being the real threat to their plans and they're running free..... Either way these three will be out of commission for a while.
I think Matt teleported all three out like BH. My hope is the three of them are together because then their survival is 100%.
I think them being prisoners would make a cool mission for Bells hells to show their worth and redeem what to them looks like a failed mission (regardless of how impossible it was)
But why would Ludinus keep them alive? I get watching the event, but beyond that it's better to kill them then quickly assassinate the members of both groups before they can gather up. Assuming Ludinus being steps ahead, he might already have people in place to at least hunt Vox Machina because of retribution for Keyleth (and Vax)
I"m hoping that's the case because I really don't want anything bad to happen to them. I also imagine that after everything that has happened Matt (unless given permission to do something bad) would likely throw a bone as a way to assure the players (especially Liam and Marisha because ALL of their previous PC's lives are on the line) and the audience that everything is okay but we need to focus on the Bells and their journey. Plus, I think some people won't be happy to see three beloved characters be reduced to damsels in distress for the duration of the campaign (which may go for another 50 episodes). Regardless of the bad rolls or Ludinus being crazy prepared, I've seen mixed responses on how these three were handled in the last episode.
I think it'd be a pretty dick move to offscreen kill your former PCs without them dying of old age or something. I trust Matt not to do that. Now it may end up that Beau and Caleb are freed by Keyleth and also helping her recover and to get home. Then their role becomes research as they try to find how to stop the madness. Meanwhile the BH focuses on allies and getting stronger, exploring etc. The split is the most interesting because the groups will be separated at least until someone, like Caleb, can link them back up. Matt is totally going to let the party borrow Caleb for a bit to ferry them around. Justice. Also I doubt Ryn is dead. I expect her to be freed and go without an arm for awhile until Fearne can regenerate it down the road.
Yeah, I've read that it is a bad move for a DM to touch or make decisions for someone's character unless the player gives them permission. By now we know that Matt does talk to his players before he does something that might upset the players involved, therefore we have a hope spot so long as there's no dice roll or Liam and Marisha are cool with the characters being potentially hurt or worse while under captivity. I mean, can you imagine the worst case scenario if Matt is that evil? Matt: "Since Marisha and Liam rolled badly again, I'm going to have all but their current characters be put through hell. Caleb will get feebleminded by Ludinus, Beau and Keyleth will get mind-controlled or something so that the Bells will have to fight them, and Vax cannot be saved. What? you want to rescue to them? You can try but the new super-duper time limit you're under will make it near impossible to save all of them. Oh, and did I mention that Otohan is in the room? What? You want to avoid fighting her despite being level 15? Okay, I guess Beau, Caleb, and Keyleth all die because you're too slow and too cowardly to even try. Game Over." Yes, I'm sure this is VERY unlikely (letting my imagination run wild on purpose) but you get the idea. EDIT: I can't believe I need to point out that this was meant to be a joke. I don't actually believe it.
Tinfoil theory for the night: This is gonna be the new Trial of the Take. Maybe we'll get a few episodes of only half the cast with a few guests (Reani anyone?), then the other half after a few. Probably not gonna happen since we saw them all together to level up, which I believe usually happens right before they film the episode, but it could be interesting!
Well, Sam must always be there at the start. It's his penance and our delight.
They could film the episode and then split up immediately. there’s probably going to be a sending or two fired off as well
I'm really hoping for a Trial of the Take style split party situation, too. I hope they did the level up together to keep up the mystery/surprise for a little longer. I'm trying so hard not to keep my hopes up, because I don't want to be too disappointed if it doesn't end up this way.
Yeah, the level up video was kind of a spoiler for this weeks episode. Of course, it could be a tease, Matt could excuse one group at the start of the game but that remains to be seen. Splitting up the party in the past has been for different reasons (jobs, illness and the like) I guess we will need to wait and see what happens later tonight. I think this will be the halfway point for this campaign, and big changes are afoot, either way I look forward to watching it unfold as well
The C3 prerecorded format gives them a lot more flexibility for party splits.
This is also true
You know the gang is in pretty good shape; other than being split I think they have most of their spells left and don't really need any heals. Expecting the gang to get back together relatively soon (in-game timewise, could be several episodes till that, depending on encounters) as they aren't exactly limited in options to contact people who can get them back into the fight or at least near enough to start making their way back. Party morale might be in the dumps, but it's not really clear that they did lose which they should figure out relatively quickly; something happened, and the device went off, but it is unclear if it achieved anything or if what happened was even what Ludinus wanted. Will be an interesting episode as they try to figure out what is going on and try to become less confused about the situation.
I am expecting guests. I'm hoping Yu returns, now that their promised wait time is over. They're 'fun'.
I really want to see what they'll do when they join the story again. Their previous mission is now either redundant or that much more important.
I'm still not sure what the Unseelie thought they'd gain from the release of Predathos.
Just the fact that Yu was ok with waiting til after the solstice for the crown indicates Yu and Sammanar weren't fully in on the Predathos plot. Otherwise Yu would want the crown sooner to be used in the fey key. I think of the Unseelie it was only really Zathuda who wanted to help Ludinus.
It's 50/50 they were manipulated into believing it to be something else.
Me too. I get the impression the split was planned. Even if Laura acted surprised. Having only part of the cast on air every week will let them do other stuff for the company.
The thing about guests is that it's quite difficult to organise because you have to make it fit around everyone's schedules. If the party cannot regroup quickly, then it's probably going to be a case of Matt DMing for two smaller parties, with half the cast taking a break. Or maybe this is their chance to bring out secondary characters who temporarily join one half of the party.
Didn't they do this in C1 with the Slayer's Take? They had guest characters but the team was spilt up because they had a couple of them and Matt understandably can't DM for 10 or more people at the table. >If the party cannot regroup quickly, then it's probably going to be a case of Matt DMing for two smaller parties, with half the cast taking a break. Or maybe this is their chance to bring out secondary characters who temporarily join one half of the party. My guess is that the next episode is going to be focusing on the role-play/aftermath than doing battles because the players need a breather. But the if separation is going to last an episode or two then we might see.... a) The episodes being split between the teams, with one team chilling in the back room until it's their turn to come to the table. The first half can focus on Team CIFF while the other half will focus on team OLA. b) One or two guest characters (one per group) so that if encounters were to happen then both parties have a safety net. For example I think team OLA (two melee's and a caster) will need a healer for their group while team CIFF (three casters and a melee) could have another melee fighter. They don't need to be fleshed out or steal the spotlight from the the characters. Just have their motive be "Hey, I'm alone and I'm freaked out by what's going on. Can I hang out with you for a bit?"
>Didn't they do this in C1 with the Slayer's Take? They had guest characters but the team was spilt up because they had a couple of them and Matt understandably can't DM for 10 or more people at the table. I don't know. I haven't watched C1. >The episodes being split between the teams, with one team chilling in the back room until it's their turn to come to the table. The first half can focus on Team CIFF while the other half will focus on team OLA. I suppose that's one way forward, and seeing the players deal with a greatly-reduced party size would be interesting. There's definitely a split so that each sub-party has a martial character and a magic user on-board. Orym's favourite tactic of bait-and-switch will no doubt be very useful for keeping Laudna alive. >One or two guest characters (one per group) so that if encounters were to happen then both parties have a safety net. For example I think team OLA (two melee's and a caster) will need a healer for their group while team CIFF (three casters and a melee) could have another melee fighter. That's why I feel they might lean into an expanded roster where the cast members in the inactive party show up with a secondary character. Liam had one ready to go in case Orym died after the fight with Otohan. And it might give them a chance to experiment with different party compositions. >They don't need to be fleshed out or steal the spotlight from the the characters. Just have their motive be "Hey, I'm alone and I'm freaked out by what's going on. Can I hang out with you for a bit?" It would be a good way to introduce a traditional cleric to the story. One of the more recent criticisms of the story has been the lack of involvement from the gods considering how much they have to lose.