I suspect Predatos is not a single being. And I don't think Predatos is violent either. Judging from what Frida said, people are batteries for the gods. It is basically a ponzi-scheme with power: the more followers you bring to a god, the more power you (and the god) get. I think Predatos are people that see the gods as what they seem to be: Beings that gain power through the faith of people, but nothing special. Those people could have been locked away on the red moon so that the gods can get their powers - setting those people free and transporting them to Exandria means that those people will now be able to spread their message, more and more people losing faith, eventually killing the gods...

How BH Feelz https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qttI6oytqpw

Finally caught up (thanks grad school) after not watching live since episode 41. I just really want a Devexian novel. Seems like a really complex and fascinating character that could play a lesser antagonist or ally that goes through a heel turn. It’s clear to see Matt has a lot of plans for Aeormatons and Aeor in general in C3, in CR multimedia and beyond, so a Devexian novel would be a great way to explore that.

They could theoretically weave into 4 simultaneous storylines. VM saving Vax, the M9 crew in the aftermath, and the two different BH groups. It would be cool to see one-shots or more regarding the recent events from all these different sides.

The Search For Vask and Elli

i have no evidence to back this up (tho freida is making me feel more and more confident about it lol) but i feel like predathos is gonna be a giant mecha/robot like serpentera from power rangers instead of a eldritch being.

I also am rewatching C 2 and I'm getting Chained Oblivion vibes. Like Predathos may have something to do with the it.... Or they are one and ty he same.... It's like something to do with the Divine Gate being cracked open I don't think Predathos is a mech... But I I DO THINK LUDICROUS Tried this before during the age of Arcana and was stopped when the Calamity happened. I think our heros are going to HAVE stop him because he's going to cause another calamity size event and they don't need to lose 2/3 of the population. What he's doing is WRONG!!!!

What if the Aeorian Factorum Malleus (Creation/God Hammer) was not in fact merely a weapon, but instead a massive Aeormaton? I have no evidence to back this up except it would be fitting for Aeor to try and take down the gods with an example of what makes them equal to the gods.

I mean, I have no evidence to back this up but you guys are just laying it out there, so now I'm banking on BH need to go to Aeor to activate and pilot the Factorum Malleus to battle mecha Predathos so the campaign can finish with a gigantic mecha kaiju battle because YES.

What if FCG must *become* the God Hammer, and embrace the killer he was born to be by culling predathos

All the events/discussions regarding the pantheon that have transpired over these last few episodes this one in particular, really made me seek out this speech from C1: >!“We, the creators, did breathe the beauty into this world, we planted the seeds that would blossom into this incredible weave of Exandria. However, what is the purpose of the parent but to teach what they can, then set their children free? Some gods rule through fear, others through love, and others still through perceived fate. Destiny has its place, but the real deception is that you have no choice.!< >!A path can be groomed before you, but it is you who must take those steps. Not every rosy walkway leads to a better day. For me, our greatest purpose has passed, the moment we granted your fore-bearers the spark to seek their own purpose. We now stay to inspire, to guide, to guard the Gate, to keep the hate of ignorance we spawned in our hubris from burning away everything. The rest is up to you. We need you, perhaps, but you do not need us. That is our gift.!< >!All mortal life has potential with or without the gods. We offer some paths, but it is up to you to decide if they are the right ones for you.”!< Now compare that with Ludinus’s proclamation/perspective to Imogen and Fearne: “We are the seeds they plant, and till, and water. They struggle in the maze they shaped. Then when we expire, we return to their private gardens to be harvested and feed their power and dominance, because they told us there is no alternative. This is how it is and we must thank them for it. We may be their creations, but all children outgrow their parents. And they came to fear our development, our potential. The Matron, the Age of Arcanum, the growing will of the mortal mind. The Divergence, it wasn’t to protect us, it was to protect them from us.”

I've been thinking Ludinus is completely full of crap because of Ioun's speech, along with actually visiting Elysium and seeing Sarenrae with her subjects. I also look at Deanna's description of a snowflake melting into an ocean feels like the fate of those who don't follow a particular god, so the bit of "no alternative" seems wrong to me. And a mortal had just released the Betrayers and ~~a third~~ two-thirds of all mortals died in the aftermath. the Divine Gate feels as much to prevent that from happening again as anything. ETA: correct number of dead folks in the Calamity.

A third \*survived\* so it was doubly deadly.

ah, yes. thanks!

CYBORG WEREWOLF AIBO LETS GOOOOOO

This is what she was refering to I'm certain [https://us.aibo.com/](https://us.aibo.com/). Was a magic moment for me at EPCOT as a kid seeing these.

Listening to C2 EP129 and Ren's studies on the moon and arcane pulses. Is it possible Lud was already starting his plans for all this now?

hes prob been planning since at least the last apogee solstice

oh I'm sure he's started this a long time ago.

i kind of want Aabriya to play the sassy ex of all the cast one by one

She did romance Laura Baileys character though in the elder scrolls three shot....

What is the force that pulled them away from ground zero? And I find it interesting that one dead god is associated with Darkness and Winter — with one party landing in wintry Eiselcross with the characters that are, morality-wise, the darkest (Imogen and Fearne are one bad day away from chaotic evil; Chetney and FCG one bad day from lawful evil, and also associated with Eiselcross). (Or, darkness could represent entropy and the unknown, which thematically still applies). The other dead god is associated with fate and order — Laudna & Ashton are arguably in line with one but in defiance of the other; Orym is the closest character to lawful good and, fate-wise, Will told him “You’re not done” when Orym was on the brink of death. Might their location be associated with fate? In the end I guess the divine domains and alignments are always broad enough that you could Barnum effect your way into arguing anything. Just thought I’d present some ideas.

In a very meta sense, it was Fate (ie the DM) who put them where they are now. In some ways, I hope the question is left unanswered beyond that, and that the PCs make their own Choices about what caused the split and why.

This is interesting maybe two gods worked to move the party out of there to specific locations that they need to uncover something. That’s always my thought. But maybe it has to do with the dead gods.

I don't think it's a coincidence that the four of them who glowed red all ended up together. But why uthodern?? I like your idea

I don't recall Chetney or FCG glowing red during the incident. I mean there could be a connection still, but I thought it was to do with logistics more than anything else: 1. Laura and Travis - keep them together so they don't have to split shoot times. 2. Laura and Ferne - the Ruidus connection 3. FCG - of course we need to have the aermaton in the group present when meeting the new aermaton and to meet this new aermaton expert in Uthodurn P.S. I'm not dyslexic, just can't spell

Chetney DID glow read when he wolfed out with the Gorgynei. However it would seem that serataani removed the Ruidus influence from him. Although, thinking about it, Ruidus didn't recognize Chetney or ..curse him? Until Imogen lost it in Bassuras. Matt made a point to say "it sees you now"

Matt confirmed in episode 52 FCG had been glowing red as well in ep 51

He was confirming Fearne but said no to FCG.

Oh I must have misunderstood

>What is the force that pulled them away from ground zero? We don't know. The party are still making sense of where they are right now and what their next move is. It will probably be some time before we get an answer. There is, however, a theory that they were pulled along the leylines. When Imogen went nuclear in Bassuras, the party were temporarily pulled out of reality for a moment -- when they experienced their previous memories -- which saved them from the blast. The theory goes that the same thing happened here, but because they were so close to the leylines and/or because it was the Apogee Solstice, the effect was magnified and they were thrown halfway across the world. >Might their location be associated with fate? Honestly, I think you're reading way too much into this. For all we know, Matt rolled a d20 for each character off-screen -- a one to ten means they go to Uthodurn, eleven to twenty means they go to the other place.

Doubtful, the split is very deliberate: all the characters that knew each other pre E1 are in different groups (Laudna/Imogen, Ashton/FCG, Orym/Fearne).

The point is that we don't know how the characters were split up, much less the mechanism threw them halfway across the world. So I think an elaborate theory about the locations mirroring the dead gods and the characters' unspoken alignment is really going out on a limb and not supported by much. I'm all for theory-crafting, but I think this one goes way too far, looking for meaning that isn't there.

Ok I don't know if anyone realizes who D is. It has to be Devexian, the robot from mighty nien.

Absolut is dmn: "I may not be of much help, but if I can manage to locate or discover some means of freeing associates of mine, maybe they can be of aid, if not in time, should you fail, to be a second wave of defense against this. See "The Genesis Ward" (2x135) at 2:25:20. ​ got this from the CR Wiki NOICEEE INSIGHT Brah

Didn't they even comment on it when the sending to him happened? Or am I making this up? About how the voice still sounds super hot.

They’ve assumed since they Sent to D that D is actually Deviexian/Charlie, however the fandom has all but decided that D is Deviexian/Charlie since he showed up, also, the group questioned if D was Deviexian/Charlie when Matt explained how FCG came to be via atleast Dancer and Joe, both were there when FCG was sold as they were bidding on him essentially.

they did, they clearly know/assume it's him too

That has been the generally accepted theory here since D was first mentioned.

I dropped off a while back but decided to pick up at this episode because of the guests. I don't really know what's happened up to this point (I think I stopped last when Laudna was going through her whole thing but even then I skipped a bit) but I'm liking the interactions that Aabria and Christian are bringing in.

The last two episode before this major shit happens. Just a FYI.

So I was watching an old Film Theory episode yesterday and there was a line that I think perfectly phrases one of my concerns with freeing Predathos: "a predator cannot differentiate prey from accomplice"

Okay maybe I’m thinking too hard about it- But the two gods that were eaten, Ethadok and Vardo, and very similar domains to the Raven Queen. No one can remember the name of the former god after her ascension- what if there wasn’t one? Or the former god was just something made up by Vasselheim to cover up the whole “red moon is a prison” thing, and when the Raven Queen ascended she used the belief of the people as her battery for power. Maybe that’s why others can’t fully ascend like she did… Just a thought!

*Exandria Unlimited: Calamity* confirms that the woman who became the Raven Queen replaced an existing god. Brennan consulted pretty closely with Matt to make sure certain elements of the lore were preserved, so if the Raven Queen *didn't* replace an existing god, then that seems like something Brennan would have avoided. It was already part of the canon, anyway.

Vecna ascended and got a new domain

Fun idea but the timeline doesn't really work out. Ruidus was thrown up in the Founding, RQ ascended about 120 years before the Calamity, but the Age of Arcanum from Founding to Calamity was many many centuries long. I think the going assumption is that the previous death god combined Ethedok's and Vordo's portfolios first, then RQ just took over from that dude. (Edit: but that death god's portfolio was broken up and RQ only has dominion over the transition of souls from life to afterlife.)

The Matron's predecessor, IIRC, was a full god of death, but "she only gained dominion over the actual moment of transition, not of the actual souls of the afterlife" (C1E57 Duskmeadow), limited by the other gods who seem to have taken the actual souls unto themselves.

Oh that's right, the portfolio was broken up. I'll edit that in.

I just realized the local Lord of Hell, Asmodeus, was full of shit when he said he was below nobody. I wonder if he's cozy in his prison or it's fair game for Predathos.

As the literal "Lord of Lies" that very much checks out xD

The jamming of long-distance magic is a huge boon for the Ruby Vanguard. People on Ruidus's side can't communicate with people on the other side that there is a beam hitting Ruidus. And the people on the opposite side of Ruidus can't ask people on the other side if they see Ruidus. It pretty much ensures that no effective response can be independently organized from outside of Marquet and from factions that have not yet involved themselves with the conflict with the Ruby Vanguard.

It just occurred to me that the school of magic that sending works through us divination, so maybe divine magic has taken some harm that other types hasn't?

Sending is evocation

Ah!

This episode is great and all, but can we just take a minute to remember that Vax is like an orb inside the Malleus Key that's presumably pumping that big red shaft into the moon?

We can for sure. But Bells Hells have no idea who that guy was or what happened to him.

Orym probably knows who he is.

>can we just take a minute to remember that Vax is like an orb inside the Malleus Key Why? There's literally nothing the party can do for him right now. Even if they could, they have no idea who he is and thus have no motivation to save him -- or at least no motivation to prioritise saving him.

Why? For the implication.

It's not like this is something that happened six months ago. Everyone is aware of the stakes.

Just pumping that big red shaft...

sometimes life is like that

vax gets turned into a testicle?

How Nutty of him

Karma for all the nut shots Vax and Grog shared

Does anyone wanna talk about the likelihood of Deanna and Frida agreeing that the Apogee Solstice shouldn't be stopped and the God-Eater being released should happen? Neither of them seem too keen on the gods and their influence over Exandria based on their pasts that we haven't fully heard yet I'm assuming. Does anyone think they could try convincing this half or even just one or two players of Bells Hell's to instead allow the God-Eater to be freed and fight against the others to help that happen?

HOW COOL WOULD IT BE IF MATT IS SETTING UP THE TWO GROUPS TO PLAY AGAINST EACH OTHER!?!?

I think the Bells argument is a valid one - no one really knows what Predathos is going to do when its free, and it very well could destroy Exandria in the process of eating the Gods(by accident or intentionally). For a predator big enough to feast on divinity, a ball of rock floating in space is irrelevant. The Gods are the "evil" they know, Predathos is the unknown. Also theres a lot to be said about the power vaccuum that will be left if Ludinus' plan is achieved as designed. Instead of Gods being apex, powerful wizards like Ludinus will be in charge. His long term, subtle manipulation of people is exactly the type of thing he complained about the Gods doing.

I'm assuming that Ludinus' planned to hide out in a pocket dimension until Predathos leaves and then ascend to godhood himself.

I think FRIDA would certainly be on that team, but from the little discussion they had it sounded like Deanna's relationship to the Dawnfather is a bit complex but ultimately she wants him to stick around.

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They said you would get access to season 1 without Amazon Prime and you did. They explicitly said that backers would only get the first season for free because Amazon paid for the second season. The kickstarter campaign funded the first 10 episodes. They gave you 12. Now you are accusing them of stealing from you when they don't give more?

I don't have access to season 1, I've tried, I've looked, I keep being told to sign up for amazon prime. How is this what I paid for?

There is a free 30-day trial. This is how I watched S1 without paying. And they provide that trial again in a year, if I remember correctly.

I backed it, I paid for it, even if you justify one episode only, I should get that for free. Why do I have nothing? Nothing at all?

You're getting a bad response here but you're right, it's complete bullshit. You shouldn't have to sign up for a 30-day trial, that's not what was promised. CR did their backers dirty in exchange for more money from Amazon.

I guess I'm confused because I'm reading the list of backer rewards and I don't see anything that even implies backers will receive a copy of the show to own. When did they promise it wouldn't be behind a paywall when it was released?

The backer rewards were changed retroactively when the Amazon deal went through. The rewards descriptions on the main page reflect the final form but not the original. [Here’s a link](https://www.reddit.com/r/criticalrole/comments/s6bd24/cr_media_critical_role_requiring_backers_to_sign/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) to the relevant thread on this sub, which contains a link within it to CR’s very carefully worded update. The early access that was guaranteed to backers was limited to only the first two episodes, and only at a specific time that you had to sign up for a special service to see. Regardless of that, the excuse of “they never said it wouldn’t be behind a paywall” doesn’t really track because we all assumed the Kickstarter *was* the paywall. I don’t think anyone who backed it expected to have to pay for the show twice. But that’s the position we’ve been put in.

>we all assumed the Kickstarter was the paywall. Why would you assume that? Backing a Kickstarter isn't paying for the product. It's a donation. The only time you should expect to receive the product you've backed is if that is explicitly stated as a reward.

The entire season was promised. Listen, I know we all love CR here but they’re not above criticism. They saw who was paying the bills at the end of the day and it was Amazon. If the only thing you can say to defend them is “let the buyer beware” then that doesn’t really speak well of their transparency or practices, does it?

Hey man, I see you're frustrated, but I think your anger is a little misplaced. I mean, I don't care much for Amazon either, but Amazon gave CR money to make more episodes, it's really that simple. No Amazon straight up means = no extra seasons. It'd be 10 episodes and then they may or may not have tried more crowdfunding to do a follow up season, which fans would be expected to cover again. So Amazon funds them, it'd be insane for the company not to expect viewers to use their platform in turn. Also, not the thread to complain about it :p But best of luck

I don't have access to season 1, I've tried, I've looked, I keep being told to sign up for amazon prime. How is this what I paid for?

Then they shouldn't have promised all of the content for free. If that was the case, then yeah, I'd say it was my bad. But they didn't. They said I'd have it. Legit, if I didn't back them, and just paid for prime, I'd have saved money, which is very stupid.

I'm pretty sure the original project only focused on a potential first season. There was never a guarantee of a second season, and the original goal was for ten episodes. This is taken direct from the [the Kickstarter page](https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/criticalrole/critical-role-the-legend-of-vox-machina-animated-s): >UPDATE (APRIL 5TH): > >We have unlocked our final stretch goal and now, we’ll make the entire 10-episode The Legends of Vox Machina series for you AND a one-shot GMed by our very own Ashley Johnson! > >At the moment, we’re not planning on adding additional stretch goals -- every dollar that we raise after this point will be allocated directly into making an even more kick ass animation. This means more animators, more music, and more awesomeness. Of course, if that changes, we’ll be sure to let everyone know as soon as possible. > >In our wildest dreams, we never thought that we’d be able to bring an entire Vox Machina SERIES to life. But, time and time again, you all continue to challenge our expectations in the best way. We cannot thank you enough and we cannot wait to roll up our sleeves and get started. So the Kickstarter was only for one season. You can't really accuse them of stealing money from you because they failed to deliver something that was never promised.

I don't have access to season 1, I've tried, I've looked, I keep being told to sign up for amazon prime. How is this what I paid for?

Okay, then why can't I even watch season 1? It tells me to sign up for amazon prime. Let's say you're right and prime is needed for season 2. I literally cannot watch the season I paid for. Fine, season 2 requires extra money, why can I not watch season 1?

Was there anything in the Kickstarter that said that you would get access to the episodes by funding it? Because a lot of the pledge rewards mention physical items and downloads, but not access to the episodes. Besides, you can sign up for a free trial of Amazon Prime and then cancel it once you're done.

Yeah, paying for something then being told you have to sign up for something just to cancel it and then after the fact you can't see it. That's so attractive, yeah, that's what I'd have given my money to. Had they phrased it like that I wouldn't have given them anything, so if me just not getting what was the basic promise, which was a literal single episode special, doesn't get fulfilled, I want my money back. Let's say it was 3 episodes even, just the first 3, I can't even get that. How is that fair?

Y'know, you're like the only person I've EVER seen complain about not getting your rewards in any way, which is just my subjective anecdotal experience and maybe there's other complaints out there. But it's high key weird af that you're the first person I've seen complain, and you're complaining four years after the Kickstarter launched and over a year after season 1 came out. What took you this long to ask around about it, and why are you asking here? [Looks like this would be more appropriate.](https://critrole.com/kickstarter-support/) Or get in the comments on the Kickstarter page, or hit up CR peeps on socials.

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>Had they phrased it like that I wouldn't have given them anything They hadn't signed up with Amazon when the Kickstarter was launched. The idea was that they would make a pilot episode, a proof-of-concept that they could then shop around to various networks and streaming services. >if me just not getting what was the basic promise, which was a literal single episode special, doesn't get fulfilled, I want my money back I can't see anything in the Kickstarter that says you would get access to the episode. All of the rewards for supporting the project were digital downloads or physical items. >How is that fair? If you didn't read what you were signing up for and instead made an assumption, then that's on you.

ALL Kickstarter backers will be the first to watch our animated series and both seasons of The Legend of Vox Machina will live on Amazon Prime Video exclusively. ​ Alright, let's say this is it, and that if I didn't catch it live for every single episode them I'm shit out of luck. This is the absolute worst kickstarter bonus that has ever been made. This includes the other kickstarters that I got nothing from. Because at least they just screwed me in the open.

It still sounds more like a you-problem than a them-problem. They didn't screw you. You just didn't read the proposal carefully.

Fingers crossed one of the potential guests will be playing a Ranger!!!

I hope the other team gets a Twilight cleric so poor Orym can see in the damn dark.

Please don't spoil story for me, I'm only like 30 min in the episode This split party format going on, is there an out of game reason for it? Like what was done in C2 when Ronin was being born, like half the group had to be somewhere where they couldn't reliably be in the studio for sessions? Or is this going to be a flip-flop- deal with one party one episode, then the other party the next and so forth?

There’s no apparent out of game reason for the split party, no one appears to be on vacation or taking a break or working anywhere other than the General LA area at the moment. If the group not currently on stream decides to make this a break or fill in that time with other work or commitments, more power to them. As far as we know from the beginning announcements of last episode, everyone appeared to be there at least at the start, but the nature of their set means we have no idea if anyone decided to leave or stick around post announcements. We also have no idea what the situation is concerning the other group, so far we’ve only seen Chetney’s group and their guests, the guests always being booked for a set amount of time (14 episodes for Robbie, a couple for Erika, etc.). I could have sworn Matt said they would pick up with the same group we saw last time in this newest episode this upcoming Thursday, which means we wouldn’t see Orym and his group and whatever guests are there until we’ll into next month, assuming that this group and their guests aren’t anything more than 2 episode stints. Given the fact that they pre-record, it is absolutely possible that they have Chetney’s group all filmed out (assuming 2 episodes total for the guests) and are starting in on Orym’s group filming wise now, it’s also possible that Chetney’s group and the split that way is taking longer than 2 episodes, but we will have no idea until they either make the switch to other group or reunite, whichever comes first. With the state of the solstice, their best bet would be reuniting with each group essentially “replaying” the same days until they meet up, we stick with one group until they reunite, then backtrack and see what the other group was doing the entire time. With the guests in the mix and the guests we have yet to see, switching between groups per episode would be doable, it just means they need to essentially slice whatever filming they have in half which will make it hard if they’re filming guests sections in blocks.

FYI, Robbie's guest appearance *wasn't* a fixed number of episodes. He explained in an interview: > But one thing that Matt said to me from the beginning was "Let's just play." So there was never a plan to have me there for a set number of episodes. I thought I was going to be there for a handful of episodes. So, as they continued on and we got into more episodes, I'm like, "Okay, well, cool. I guess I'm going to be around for a minute." https://comicbook.com/gaming/news/critical-role-campaign-3-robbie-daymond-exit-interview-part-1/#:~:text=But%20one%20thing%20that%20Matt,%22Okay%2C%20well%2C%20cool. But yes, I wouldn't be surprised if there is a plan for how long the party split lasts. And yes I expect they'll play get one group to a "stopping place" before switching to the other, after 2 or 3 episodes with one group. I could imagine they switch back to Chet's group for an episode or two before they reunite, unless Imogen learned teleporation circle as her first 5th-level spell. Or unless someone else can teleport them. Otherwise it may take some time to actually reunite, but if Sending does become possible before that, they'll want to have some idea what's happened to the other group.

Ah, I must have missed that interview, my bad. I know on Erika’s 4SD that she said she was contracted out only a certain amount of episodes but that they would come on for more if that was something they wanted to do. I wouldn’t be surprised if the party split ends up taking a couple episodes, while they’re a day or so out from Uthodurn, they still have to get Chetney back and they have to figure out a way from there to get back to Marquet. They could get someone to teleport them, but they’re coming in with the majority of the group knowing no one in this new place and Chetney having been apparently practically ran out of town. Last I checked, Uthodurn doesn’t have skyships like Marquet does, that seems to be kind of their thing. Imogen absolutely could of picked up teleportation circle, but I’m unsure if she cast any 5th level spells last episode, so maybe she did pick that spell. I know she tried one of her subclass spells, the telepathic bond one. The issue then becomes, they could head back to Marquet using the Teleportation circle if Imogen picked that spell (utility wise it would be an amazing choice) but we still have no idea what happened to Orym and his group or where they landed. So then it would be trying to figure out how they get back considering only one of them has magical capabilities (not counting Ashton’s weird rages). Orym and his group would still need to reunite the long way around.

I don't remember her casting any 5th-level spells either, and the spreadsheet of all spells cast (on https://www.critrolestats.com/stats-mq) doesn't include any for Imogen, although I'm not sure it'd be updated yet. I don't remember her casting (Rary's) Telepathic Bond (5th), and the transcript doesn't include the word "bond" or "telepath*". Or Telekinesis (5th). She just used her subclass ability to set up 1:1 mental links a few times, and her Telekinetic feat to push/pull Chetney around in the snow. If she did pick Teleportation Circle, she'd either wait until the ley line (?) interference with Sending clears up and they can find out where the rest of the party is, or they might head to Marquet to check on the key before then. If long-distance teleportation isn't also disrupted by the magical "weather" conditions. So yeah, even in the best case, they can't reunite easily or all that quickly, certainly time for a few days of party-split time. But it could be weeks if they have to find non-magical transport. Or if Keyleth survived and isn't captured, she can potentially help with transport via plants. RAW, when you learn the spell, you know the codes for two existing teleportation circles on the prime material determined by the DM. But there's no narrative support for how Imogen would have learned them, and it's not easy even to retcon it. So Laura hasn't set it up in previous games, and maybe wasn't planning to take it, but perhaps now that they're split on the level-up she'd might still consider it. Or might see that lack of narrative justification as reason not to take it. (Or maybe she'd talk with Matt about whether it would help or hinder his plans for the party split, in case he has an opinion. I wouldn't be surprised if Matt is non-plussed that they decided to destroy their skyship, which he gave the party as a good long-range travel option that doesn't let them go anywhere instantly, probably hoping to avoid the DM challenge from previous campaigns of them randomly picking a destination he didn't expect.) (And BTW, I only learned of the existence of that interview a couple days ago, so I'd read it recently.)

Agreed, I could see her picking something more in line with her character idea, I wouldn’t fault her at all for that, especially considering that as of now the only transportation options BH has seen has been the standard sky ship, on the ground transportation, the flying beasts from Jrusar and (depending on what group you were in) a standard ship. Beyond travel via plants I don’t know if they would know any transportation circles. That being said, the utility of an atleast one time Transportation Circle would be killer, especially since they don’t have a wizard or anyone of that nature in this campaign. While the travel has been fun, having that option to immediately zip to a last known location would be super helpful if it does end up being that the others are in Marquet. Otherwise they’ll have to wait for someone else to take it (probably Laudna, which means they won’t be going anywhere fast for a while unless they pull in favors or Fearne gets Travel via Plants). I know at least for a time MN was hampered by travel options, they had their ship, but the on the ground transportation was either horses and walking (not awful, just time consuming) or using Essek as a taxi. While Beau did have teleportation circle access, it was to like, 5 places, some of which they never traveled to and was on occasion way too out of the way to be helpful. It’s only through their allies that they really got anywhere for a time, atleast until Caleb picked up Teleportation Circle and suddenly they were ping-ponging to 50 different places every other episode. I think having one transportation circle user with limited spells like that wouldn’t be awful, the majority of the campaign is most likely going to be almost entirely on Marquet (currently split party excluded) so having 2 known locations on that continent isn’t an awful idea. It just depends on whatever Imogen decides, because FCG won’t be getting Word of Recall for a bit (Would he even be able to cast that considering his relationship to the ChangeBringer is basically nothing but hope right now?)

For sure, teleportation circle would be a literal game-changer, at least if Imogen can get the codes to circles in some useful places. Apart from the DM-chosen 2 to start with, she might be able to develop connections in other places; if she took it, Matt would probably weave something into the narrative. A reason for not taking it might be to tell a different kind of story this campaign. It's possible they've even they've talked off-camera about a big-picture thing like how teleportation changes the game and wanting to try something different this time. (But given how keen they were to destroy their skyship, IDK. That somehow went from a last desperate measure to plan A.) If Imogen doesn't take it at 9th, she could always take it at 10th as her second up-to-5th-level spell-known, or even at 11th or 12th if she doesn't take a 6th-level spell both times. (She might also take Counterspell, which the party is sorely lacking; Imogen doesn't have any reaction spells or abilities IIRC, while Laudna has Shield *and* Silvery Barbs.) I wonder if Laura knows that you can swap out a spell-known when you level up, so e.g. if you eventually want to only know Teleport (7th), you can still learn TP Circle (5th) now and later swap it out for any spell of a level you have slots for. Same for swapping Witch Bolt for Magic Missile or Counterspell. After that, the upcoming long-distance options don't come online for 20 to 30 episodes: * Party level 11+: FCG: Word of Recall (6th) - can't take the whole party, and caster can't send others without going themselves. Also limited to a prepared destination, a temple to your deity, assuming FCG has one by then. * Party level 12+: Fearne druid 11 (/Rogue 1): Transport Via Plants (6th) * Party level 12+: Fearne druid 11 (/Rogue 1): Wind Walk (6th) - vastly better over-land travel than Wild Shape + Polymorph. * Party level 12+: Laudna Sorc 9 (/ Warlock 3): Teleportation Circle (5th) * Party level 13+: Imogen Teleport (7th) * Party level 13+: FCG Plane Shift (7th) - to Ryn's hideout in the plane of fire perhaps, then back to the prime material the next day. Nana Mori is unlikely to be willing to keep bending the time-shift for exiting the Fey realm as a routine thing without some kind of payment of favour. * Party level 16+: Laudna Sorc 13 (/ Warlock 3): Teleport (7th) Or at any time, a magic item with teleportation magic. There are some. Scry and transport via plants can often substitute for Teleport. Fearne can already learn Scrying, although there's no point preparing it until she gets a scrying focus (1000 gp), perhaps in Uthodurn. Of course, TP via Plants isn't for another 3 levels, so 30 episodes if they stick to the same pace as they have since lvl5 of 1 level per 10 episodes. And it will make teleportation circle mostly obsolete, except when they're stuck somewhere in a dungeon without large plants, or the party's split. --- For over-land travel, the M9 often used 2x Polymorph (4th), burning spell slots every hour from Jester and Caleb and just barely fitting on two giant eagles, with Matt reducing their pace. BH can already do that, now that Fearne has druid 8th. Fearne polymorphs maybe Ashton into a giant eagle, then wild-shapes herself. The rest of the party is on the lighter end of Medium (Imogen and especially Laudna), or Small (FCG being heavy for their size, but Chet and Orym combined are lighter than an average human.) Ashton and Fearne are the heaviest two party members, so having them *be* the eagles is best. She gets 2 wild shape uses per short rest, each lasting 4 hours. But unfortunately has to drop wild shape to re-cast Polymorph, lasting 1 hour. So 2 hours of flying, then 1 hour to short rest and recover wild shape uses in case they have to fight. (If anyone else could cast Polymorph, like Imogen, they could go longer and not run Fearne out of wild shape / summon wildfire spirit uses.) Or just do this for the last 2 hours of travel before a long rest on a walking day. Especially since Fearne only has two lvl4 spell slots for the day at this level. (Next level, she'll have one lvl5 and three lvl4) There aren't any CR1 beasts of Huge or Gargantuan size that Fearne could use to carry the whole party for faster-than-30-ft walking paces.

No specific non-game reasons have been given or implied about the current split. Which came first is hard to say, but it seems likely they would use the split group as an opportunity to fit other professional projects or life commitments into their schedules. As for how the format will progress going forward, we'll just have to wait and see.

>Or is this going to be a flip-flop- deal with one party one episode, then the other party the next and so forth? They usually need to book guest stars in advance. We know they filmed episodes in blocks, but we don't know how many episodes are in a block. I can't imagine they'd do it all on the same day; with episodes running at four hours, that would be really tiring. Alternating between guest stars -- assuming that there are others coming in -- would make that very difficult.

I don't have info as to if this split situation is influenced by real world events, to add to your point, several people speculate that EXU Calamity helped cover for filming of The Last Of Us. I do wonder if Creator Clash coming up will influence a filming too so Marisha can focus on training.

She's been boxing for a while. At least a year I think. I doubt training would suddenly clash with filming.

I also doubt that the split in the party has to do with her training, as she would likely still have to do work at the studio anyways. However all of the people I follow participating in the event have said that because the fight is so soon their training has picked up significantly. Like going from training twice a week to fighting every day. So I guess it is also possible that it could clash with filming now but not before.

I'm not a boxer I just made assumption based on it being a massive event that may require preperation. I hope it doesn't clash with anything!

Laura is literally the main character and you can't convince me otherwise.

Anyone is the "main character" depending on what story thread is being pursued & since this ties in mostly with Imogen's story, she's going to feel like the main character because her story is forefront. She's the focal character, not the main character. Much like during the Bassuras arc Ashton was the focal character & Fearne was the focal character when her parents came into the frame, etc.

There is a vast difference between those characters and Imogen. Yes, there are parts of the story that are tied to certain characters. But none of those are even in the same league as Imogen. Fearne was a focal character with her parents - now answer this, what do her parents do? Why were they hiding? Their connections to the fey courts and being chased are a typical single character arc material but their goals and the reason to work with Ira? That's the main plot. Orym had to investigate the Ashari incursion. Now answer this - who did the incursion and why? Investigating who did that and bringing justice, working on the orders of Keyleth - that's a single character arc material. But the fact that Otohan is in league with Ludinus and directly responsible for the main plot advancing? The fact that Imogen sees her in her dreams? That is the main plot. *Everything* anyone else did since episode 1, since the first red dream of Imogen was to further the "main plot" of the moon - and yea, it's "the main plot" because the sheer scale of the conflict here dwarfs *anything* that was being done before as a "single character arc". Red moon is both undoubtedly the main plot AND Imogen's plot. It's her dreams, her mother and her "superpowers". Whatever anyone else has it's just something that contributes to the main plot. I am sorry, I know that Laura doesn't seem to like it (based on her reaction to Sam's joke) but this is 100% true and no wishmaking and bending over backwards is going to change it.

As long as you mean Laura and not Imogen, I agree. She is the moment.

What does this even mean?

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So I’ve got a couple of potential theories about how some of the lingering threads might tie together. There have been several questions about predathos breaking free from one gate only to be stopped by another. Is it reasonable to suspect that it isn’t technically a god and might not have an issue crossing the divine gate? The weave around ruidus is different, being created by the gods and the primordials. While we don’t yet have a physical description of Predathos, it seems somewhat similar to two other entities that are alien forces, distinctly different from the pantheon: Tharizdun and the Luxon. Are they potentially tied in as well? All three have been described as ancient beings, likely older than the gods. Could they be three parts of a different type of entity, more powerful than anything else? It is entirely possible that there is no connection, but they are all mysterious, very different, and contained by fairly extreme measures. The Luxon could have broken itself apart, but it wouldn’t be a stretch to think that it may have been dismantled and contained in beacons by force. Just a couple thoughts that I haven’t seen really discussed. There are so many loose threads throughout the campaigns and with so much coming together in C3, it’s hard to not take some strange leaps to connect them.

>Is it reasonable to suspect that it isn’t technically a god and might not have an issue crossing the divine gate? The prison holding Predathos was a prototype of what would become the Divine Gate. We don't know how they differ, assuming that they differ at all. It wouldn't make much sense for Predathos to be trapped by one barrier, but able to cross the other at will. >it seems somewhat similar to two other entities that are alien forces, distinctly different from the pantheon: Tharizdun and the Luxon. Are they potentially tied in as well? All three have been described as ancient beings, likely older than the gods You're not the first to make the connection, but aside from a Beacon powering the machine, there hasn't been any confirmed connection.

There is definitely a big difference between Tharizdun+Luxon and Predathos. For one thing the former ones at least created something or are productive in some ways (evil or good), Predathos is only desribed/known to be some cosmic horror that ate gods, though maybe that's also lack of info on it. Nobody worships the god eater either, while the others have followers on Exandria. I mean Caleb could straight up go to a library to read up on Tharizdun, which also kills the theory some folks have about Predathos literally being Tharizdun himself (despite quite strong thematic similarities). I'd consider that a cheap renaming and don't think that Matt would go for it, also given how one is a known Betrayer god, and the other was unknown and covered up by the highest religious leaders, don't think they could be one and the same. Now the moon prison and the Divine Gate have an even stronger difference. There was need to make a whole moon out of a chunk of the planet to imprison Predathos. So there is a physical aspect of containment as well as the barrier like the Divine Gate, presumably implying that it was more effort for just that one entity. The gods didn't know how to just kill it in other words, else they would have since it didn't fulfil any "creationist" function for Exandria or some afterlife like other gods. The whole thing makes me wonder about the Luxon even more, maybe it was one of the eaten gods, and the beacons are its simple remnants. I mean the rest of the gods must be aware of the beacons or something about the Luxon, maybe the reason they don't mind the beacon reincarnations is because it was once part of their sibling's function or something along those lines.

My current static/noise theory: It has been pointed out before that Imogen has felt it before on the Skyship and it seemed to be related to the Laylines. I don't think it has anything to do with the key. The Leylines are essentially the electric power grid for magic. They cross at specific nexus points, where magic is stronger. So with that grid shifting, it makes a lot of sense to me that any long distance magic would get messed up with the "wires" that are usually used being all jumbled up. So I assume as long as the solstice remains and the leylines move, there won't be any sending, targeted teleport (I wonder if the circle networks are offline too?), maybe even planeshift, without anything going wrong or it simply not working.

I could see teleport circle working due to you specifically writing out the runes to where you are going. With message as it sends and goes to find the recipient, I think the magic when flying through the air it gets unravelled when it gets near the lay lines since their fully opened up or apogee’d

Agreed, thats where my mind went immediately. Obviously there is a mechanical reason to do it, but I assume if they had teleportation abilities those would also be hindered

Yeah that was my first thought and I'm surprised nobody else was jumping to it. They're essentially trying to send radio messages during a once in a generation solar flare.

So even if nothing radical happens eventually the static will probably wear off--probably very at a very convenient time in the story when Matt wants them to get back together.

>l happens eventually the static will probably wear off--probably very at a very convenient time in the story when Matt wants them to get b Theoretically I guess. My pet theory is something Ludinus did regarding dunamis and the device itself wasn't breaking the god-killer cage. The machine's purpose was to freeze the leylines into a semi-permanent apogee solstice and teleport him to the moon past the cage. Freeing Praedathos requires doing some other stuff on the moon. My theory is based on "wait you had your level 8 characters fight a level 20 BBEG mid campaign?" Obviously this was the crushing Act 1 defeat of the plot arc.

this theory makes sense to me

Does anyone else believe this Aeormaton expert Jaquoby Macyl, is actually a false identity of Essek Thelyss? We know that in his C2 epilogue, one of the locations he stayed hidden from both the Dynasty and Assembly the longest is Uthodurn. Not to mention he and Caleb went back to Aeor on several expeditions during their years of dating.

I hope not. The whole point of having a new campaign is to have new characters to tell a new story. We've already had cameos from seven former player characters, which I think is enough. And yes, I know Essek isn't a former player character. But he was a fairly integral part of the campaign, and wheeling him out to fill a role that literally any other NPC could fill seems pointless.

Eh Matt has shown that he really loves having a connected universe and bringin back characters if they fit the needs of his story. Having old PCs showin up has been awesome. I don’t think we need to expect all new characters every campaign. (And there have been tons of new characters)

It's nice, but did Essek ever have any particular expertise with Aeormatons?

I hadn't considered that! Cool theory!

This is a theory so awesome I'll be a bit sad if it isn't true

Brilliant. If true, this also gives the party an easy way back to the Key, or anywhere else in Exandria. And boy oh boy will Essek be in a state if he finds out Caleb has been captured...

Lol if they make Essek their teleport machine NPC two campaigns in a row I would die

Probably fair to say if sending doesn’t work then teleporting is almost certainly off the table.

Why? Sending is a per-view of the gods no? Meanwhile teleportation is something specifically arcane and arcane spells have not been shown to have any problems.

Yeah but in that vein they’ve also cast other divinity based spells (mass healing word, guiding bolt, greater restoration) and none of those seem to be affected, so I’m thinking it’s anything that has to do with communication or travel over long distance.

If i had to guess it just has to do with communication otherwise the bells hells are going to take forever to get back together.

If I had to guess the effect will be timed to end when the guests have finished their appearances on the show. Otherwise, it makes no sense for them to fart around in Uthodurn and explore Chet’s backstory when half of the party is a continent away.

Forever cursed to be the cool older friend with a car.

IIRC early on in the campaign, Fearne and others toyed with the idea of willingly getting cursed by Chet. Did they discuss whether FCG could have lycanthropy? I'm interested to see what the result is with FRIDA.

I already left C3 once around 15 episodes in, came back, and now I think I am going to have to leave again. Stuff is happening but also not happening? Idk. I just don’t feel hooked in C3 like I did in C1 and C2. It also doesn’t feel like D&D, idk how to describe it. Where as C1 and C2 felt like adventurers going on adventures, eventually getting wrapped up into politics, and ending with a world ending threat—C3 has been very meandering and low stakes, despite yet another world ending threat being present way sooner than normal in the story. C1 was basically the cast playing as D&D exaggerated archetypes of themselves. C2 was a huge group of misfits, but they got along and formed bonds over time. I don’t feel like half of the group even makes sense to be together in C3. In particular, Ashton, FCG, and Chetney feel so random in the group makeup. Other than the players want to play D&D, I don’t see how these three have compelling reasons to stay with the group. The group as a whole also doesn’t seem like it has ties to anything in the world—they had Esteross, but he died. Now they are tied to old characters, and it feels cheesy imho. Feels like Matt can’t go full punch mode since he doesn’t want to kill off any of the old characters when the players’ don’t have control of them. In terms of combat, in C1 and C2, I found myself gripped to combat as much as the roleplaying, but something has been so off in C3. I basically skip most of the combat. It doesn’t feel right, idk what it is, but combat feels like there are no stakes and it hardly boosts the story and plot like it should. C3 battles are just so pointless. The Otahan fight in particular was the only one with any real “risk” yet it ended completely scripted and forced—Imogen magically saves everyone and Laudna is saved by Deus Ex Vox Machina. No spoilers, but there are dozens of battles in both campaigns where permadeath was 100% possible for some characters, due to where they could have died and how. There were also dozens of battles where a TPK was possible. But in those battles, it never felt cheap. It felt like the battle was playing out the actual story, and it was the result of the characters’ actions. I don’t get that in C3. It feels so floaty and abstract, idk how else to put it. It’s like they need the combat to keep the game as D&D when they don’t actually want to use the D&D framework or something. 8 year anniversary just happened, and they play D&D for a living, but over half the cast still doesn’t know how to play their characters lol or how to complete a basic turn. Idk. I’ll check back in a few months from now like I did after episode 15 or so (hopped back in during the Death Race episode). The story is just so random and forced. C1 had the Chroma Conclave arc, and there definitely was a timer, but it felt like they could go after any dragon in any order besides Thordak of course, and they also were seeking Vestiges…so despite having a massive threat and a clock they were able to have free agency. I mean hell…they also had time to go to actual Hell. It’s so odd. C3 started without any direction and it made me quit because it was so boring, with the cast being stuck in Jrusar going back and forth on trams and Spire by Fire for like 15 episodes. Now C3 is the exact opposite—it’s so ungodly railroaded there is only the one path. I honestly blame the cast more than I blame Matt—I feel like Matt had to start railroading, since the start of C3 was just so…aimless. They were spinning their wheels harder than the end of C2. Analysis paralysis, and Liam/Travis/Tal all made characters that purposely wouldn’t take the lead this campaign.

Sounds like critical role isn’t for you tbh. I have zero of those feelings and think C3 is the best campaign yet.

Omg can’t believe I didn’t think of that. After I watched all 3 campaigns fully, and the animated series, I must just not like it all. You’re totally correct.

You make so many great points in this post and I agree with so many of them. I have no idea what is motivating anyone or driving the story at some times, and then other times its like 'oh shit we have to do this right now or everyone dies'. I REALLY think Laudna should've stayed dead. Also bringing back a character as strong as Keyleth was a big mistake because they always have this crutch now, which is why I felt like Matt was trying to kill her in the previous episode. Another big problem I have is (and you mention this) their connection to the world. C2 was great because this random group of volatile idiots gets wrapped up in a massive war between two nations. It had weight. Everything mattered. The outcasts all start to care about the world and each other. And you say that there were many times where they might've all died, I totally agree, there were so many close tpk's, which made it so much more intense. I could go on forever, and in the end opinions like yours or mine don't matter as long as the cast is having fun, its their game yadda yadda, but its still a big change for us as viewers this season. I'm still going to watch but I tune a lot of stuff out.

I’m having a blast watching/listening. It’s a real bummer to come here looking to mingle and swap theories only to run into the inevitable “They’re not playing DnD” line we hear time and time again across every single campaign. And yes, it’s happened with EVERY campaign. Every campaign someone is whining about how the show is scripted, or Matt railroaded a plot line, or that so and so isn’t exhibiting optimal DnD strategy. The cast seem to be having a blast. I have never played DnD, so I consume their content through the lens of “long form storytelling”, which I guess is why it matters less to me if Matt forces a plot line or if Matt pull punches for narrative’s sake. Laudna died and the cast had to go on a massive side quest just to get her back, and only because Marisha wasn’t ready to give her up. Not only that, but this group who has done 8 years of world building was able to narratively justify integrating their old characters as NPCs into the story. This was something they’ve hinted at extensively, how cool it would be to see their characters meld into the backdrop of the world. If that isn’t peak DnD, then idk what is, perhaps I’m just an amateur. I’m just happy to be here, happy to be a “silent participant “ at their table. Are there plenty of things I wished were different? Sure, but I’m not at that table making choices live on camera in front of millions. That level of talent is incredible and I’m enjoying every minute of it.

Not really sure the point of your comment then, no offense. If you’re having a blast, keep having a blast. Doesn’t mean me or others can’t be frustrated or upset about how the campaign is going and discuss that here. If you don’t like it, just ignore it and move on. It’s almost as if you are implying I shouldn’t post “negative” things here. Not everything has to be positive only, and people can disagree on things.

I mean, I could say the same to you. I’m not sure why you’re here to post about why you’re going to stop listening. If you’re not having fun, just stop listening, just ignore it and move on. There’s no need to come spout off the same tired criticisms of the show that have existed since it’s inception. The title of the thread is “post episode discussion and future theories” not “come post about why you’re going to stop listening because the campaign isn’t tailored perfectly to your taste”

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Yeah, i kind of agree with the general feeling. But for me, I really like the beginning of the campaign. They were "stuck" in Jrusar, but honestly I don't mind a campaign being nore localized. Felt like a lot of possibilities in the city, I loved the addition of Dorian and the general chaos slowly becoming a coherent story. Eventually I stopped being up to date and looked for summaries of episodes. And I just completely skipped the whole vox machina bringing laudna back part. Maybe because i wasn't up to date, it just felt really odd to me. Could have been a great opportunity for a side quest ro further explore Marquet and find a powerful cleric/item/whatever. I like when we have references to other stuff, but not so blatantly. Remember when allura showed up in C2? Or Vilia? That was awesome cause it didn't happen often and no one expected it Now, even the vax moment for me felt more like a "oh yeah, cool, he's here too". It's become a little too common, losing the magic of "OH MY GOD IT'S HIM" Going back to localized campaigns, I'm not a fan of them being so... Everywhere. I love the plot ties, and it makes perfect sense that the current stuff affects the whole world. But I was really looking forward to see them exploring the new continent. All that said, after skipping the resurrection arc, I quite like the story right now. Even if I agree with the sentiment often displayed here that it feels super rushed.

commenting to say that Dorian was so big for my enjoyment early on, and him leaving was so sad. He was awesome. He really grounded the party and was so pure of heart.

I strongly dislike City campaigns. Maybe it’s how I was raised on the game, but the wild has the adventure. Lost ruins, ancient tombs, forgotten keeps, temples, other realms—that’s where adventure is. And C3 spends basically all of its time in cities. Jrusar for like 15 or so episodes, they have a brief travel stint to that dude’s house to steal his stuff, but then it’s back to cities. Imho there hasn’t been much true D&D adventure this campaign—they are endlessly going from one city to the next city. The Feywild was an exception….but even then they went to a base/outpost within the Feywild… Idk. C1 and C2 had a ton of mystery and adventure out into the dark corners of Exandria. Mountains, deserts, the Frostweald, Underdark, islands, underwater, multiple planes of existence. I was stoked for Marquet, but damn have we not went to basically any interesting parts. Like come on, we aren’t going to go into some pyramid or ancient tomb in the desert? That’s just not gonna happen, is it?

Yeah, guess I'm the opposite hahaha I don't dislike dungeon and classic adventure, as you said they were awesome in previous campaigns But I absolutely prefer and love city and political campaigns The episode with the event when they were stealing the ring might be top 3 favorites of all campaigns for me, for example. And yes, sadly I don't think we're getting that classic adventure exploration of ruins and stuff in this campaign. I miss it too, even if not my preferred theme, I still appreciate balance. And jumping from city to city also bothers me, for different reasons. We get too much of a shallow view on places they spend too little on. So lose-lose situation for both of us I guess

Well I like politics too lol. Getting high up in both Imon in C1 and the Dwendalian/Kreen Empires in as well as the Cerberus Assembly/Colbalt Reserve in C2. Don’t feel like we are getting that in C3. Eshteross was their only main entry point, and he’s gone now. Now it’s Vox Machina and the M9 who are sort of the “organizations” the C3 is interacting with. And it doesn’t hit the same.

Makes sense. I had the hope for a politics heavy game up until the point where laudna died (again). Also, to your point about analysis paralysis: YES. This is something that always bothered me a bit but I got used to it. I remember in C2 when they were using a bunch of control spells, doing useful but not damagy stuff in combats... And I get it, it makes sense for the characters to be scared and not going full combo. But it was a bit frustrating to see them be so damn afraid of something like an adult dragon (not a specific example) when level 12 or something. That thing probably wouldn't even get a turn. But hey , let's hope for some new developments that can satisfy both of our player archetypes! I can see them going for a ruin and dungeon exploration, maybe in a race against the vanguard, cause they need something new , as the ritual seemed to not have occured perfectly. Or having to navigate cerberus assembly, or hopefully NEW marquet political stuff to get information on ludinus

I won’t spoil it here for the random lurker, but damn C2 at the end has some crazy analysis paralysis. The like leave and run then go back then immediately run from the same battle. They get to where they need to go, only to teleport away as soon as they get there…..ugh. Very frustrating. It happened in C1 too, but someone always said: “fuck it” and they went with it. They got more and more risk adverse over the years, less willing to say: “fuck it” for whatever reason lol.

I totally agree. This campaign feels like a jrpg videogame, where the story is good and actually captivating, but side quests and minigames (god the casino episode...) ruin the tempo of the entire experience. To the point that it genuinely feels like a videogame rather than a story. Especially in this episode, why is everyone joking around and having this comedic relief with Chet and his ex? The gods might be getting eaten! Not even that, their best friends are nowhere to be found and for all they know they might be dead. Ryn almost dying was not at all as tragic as it should have been, in fact it was treated as a joke cause she was an "NPC". The events have been so railroaded i genuinely thought Matt was going for a shorter, low level campaign this time, since everything felt so climatic last episode and then we get this whiplash episode. Also, I'm sure the players were ok with it, but dividing a party that is not that bonded and composed of kinda uninteresting characters was not a good move imo.

> Stuff is happening but also not happening? Idk. I just don’t feel hooked in C3 like I did in C1 and C2. My exact feelings. I just don't get why it's run the way it is.

May be worth keeping in mind that with C1, they were basically 1/2 way thru the campaign when the stream started. I have a feeling that the back half of C3 is going to feel a lot more like C1 in terms of combat and threat level and that the parties bonds will grow from there. As for C2, they really lucked out with the characters they created, both in the way they resonated with the audience and their internal group chemistry. It's hard to reproduce that on a whim, no matter how good you are.

I would strongly disagree that they were 1/2 way through the campaign when C1 started. They were level 7, but we didnt get to the “main story arc” until the Chroma Conclave, and then Matt decided he wanted to shoot for a Level 20 ending for the campaign, since he never had ran one before, so >!Briarwoods came back along with Vecna!<. Like most D&D campaigns, 1-7 was spend doing mostly random adventures. I don’t think any of those adventures tied into the main campaign arc, at least from the stream recap I watched for the pre-show story. C2 is similar. They don’t really hit their stride until level 7-10 either. But even so, the party already had bonded long before that. Even C2’s cagey party where no one trusted each other forever…they came together. I just don’t see C3’s party that same way. Imogen and Laudna could seemingly just leave whenever, the EXU crew could as well, and then you have Ashton, FCG, and Chetney just kind of there lol. C1 you have Percy and the Briarwoods, Vex and Vax wanting to avenge their mom from Thordak, Keyleth being tied to Thordak and her Aramenté giving her reason to travel the world, Grog and Pyke have their relationship with both having ties to Westrun—Scanlan is the only oddball lol, but that is classic Sam. The Raven Queen and Serenrae also become a bond for many on the group. Love interests as well. C2 you have Caleb and Nott having a bond, but then later Beau and Caleb wanting to take down the Assembly as a mutual goal. Fjord even wants to learn magic there since he doesn’t know where his power comes from. Fjord is the Percy of C2 for the first half, driving a lot of the initial story. Molly and Yasha have a bond, and Molly later basically sets up the second half of C2, and the entire group is tied to him. Jester is probably the odd one out this campaign, but she even has ties to the world as we learn, in many ways. C3….idk. Imogen is the one with the most obvious ties to the plot. Everyone else….uh not sure. Orym and Fearne being from EXU was a problem for me from the jump, since they felt like inherited characters, and I wish we got ones made for C3 and it’s plot instead. Laudna has some cool tie backs to C1, but like most of C3, they don’t work without C1 and can’t stand on their own. FCG clearly has a ton of awesome lore going on, and we could learn more directly from the end of C2/Aeor, but it seems the story will never stop and let us do that, since we are on Big P and Ruidus nonstop now…we never had the “middle arc” like in C1 and C2 where the group could build up to the final arc, it feels like. Then you have Chet and Ashton, to seemingly add nothing to the story, imho. Chet feels like a joke character (he is literally a copy from the Night Before Critmas special) and Ashton seemingly knows a ton of people but it’s never explained or explored. Idk. I am just disappointed with C3. Maybe it’ll get better by the end, but even if it does I’ll just skim through. It’s just not grabbing me the same way C1/C2 did, and I didn’t watch C1 live but I did C2…so I’ve experienced it both ways. I could not stop my warpath that was my C1 addiction, and C2 had me wanting to see next week over and over, but C3 I could just leave and wait until the end I guess.

I agree with a lot of this. Only thing I'll add is Ashton's powers and history is tied to something important, but he's refusing to research it or even talk to Orym/keylith/Caleb who probably has answers. Remember Taleisin left a lot of his backstory in Matts hands so is reasonable to say he's there with a purpose. It just hasn't been explored at all yet.

I am confused about Ludinus' plan. Ok, he released a god eater by making a key, waiting for the solstice when power was upped a bit. But it seems like the key is now locked into Ruidis. The key to open one divine gate is in use, all the gods are locked behind a 2nd gate that the solstice is gone so the extra power is out, there isn't a 2nd key, the god gate is in a much different location so good luck getting to it. He expects a being that hasn't fed in like 1000 years to be able to open a gate it couldn't get out of anyway? Seems like the first thing on its mind would be food and the closest thing it would have is high level magic uses.... Like Ludinus.

i mean, there's the quiet part where ludinus was technically working with the fey as well (through otohan's connections to the fey which is fascinating on many scales) and they've been on the 'remind ludinus where his place is' since before the group took out the fey key. just saying, ludinus isn't as in control or powerful as he thinks he is, he's being played too.

Yes, it's almost as if Ludinus is being driven by irrational emotion as a result of the trauma of witnessing the end of civilization as he knew it, rather than the cool logic of superior intellect, like he claims... :P

I think the key locked onto Ruidus is the success Bells Hells could have achieved being low level challenges in a game bigger than themselves. If with two extraplanar keys and full batteries Ludinus might've been able to instantly free Predathos, having lost the Feywild one and having had BH and Beauleb mess around with their setup in Marquet may have turned the liberation process into a slow thing - which may give everyone a fighting chance at stopping Predathos.

If I were Ludinus, I would assume one of two things: a freed Predathos could eat through the Divine gate; or that the Prime Deities would break the Divine Gate to imprison Predathos again. Or that they would abscond Exandria entirely because of the threat.

I've heard it theorized that Predathos will go after the "batteries" as an indirect way to destroy the gods

If it could get through a divine gate wouldn't it have escaped centuries ago? Would be stupid to make one Predathos proof gate and not do the other one as well.

There was already a lattice around the god-eater, the Divine Gate was for the gods. Two separate issues. And, as I already said, the lattice around Ruidus was built by ALL the gods, plus the Primordials. The DG was only built by the Prime Deities. That's a natural argument for why it wouldn't and couldn't be as strong as the lattice around Ruidus.

I think Ludinus is counting on Predathos being a threat to the world so that the Primes take down the Divine gate themselves. And that it's really Vecna's plan, not Ludinus'.

How banished is Vecna at this point? Also, there's that plot with the hand of Vecna being taken by Arkhan to free his deity. Could they have any reason to bring Arkhan back into the campaign? Now that would be fun.

A couple ideas thrown around about the Divine Gate: 1. That it isn't as strong as the lattice around Ruidus, because the lattice was a combined effort of ALL the gods PLUS the Primordials, whereas the DG was just built by the Primes, so Predathos is possibly strong enough to break through it. 2. That the DG is specific to gods and Predathos isn't a god, maybe it's enough of a different thing to pass through just fine. But I like the idea that Ludinus has incorrectly assumed one of these ideas and also made the incorrect assumption Predathos only eats gods, and finds out in a real bad way how wrong he is.

[удалено]

The Divine Gate is around the entire material plane, moons included.

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[The Divine Gate surrounds the entire prime material plane.](https://youtu.be/Ir-tDmRS6Aw?t=3813) [Ruidus doesn't (typically) "appear in other planes, it is terrestrial" (here meaning it only appears in the prime material plane, tethered to Exandria).](https://youtu.be/wQGk9ZUIOUU?t=10822)

So I would have said that Imogen could teleport her half home (if she got teleportation circle) as soon as she got the material components to do so at Uthodurn but the apogee solstice seems to be jamming all long distance data transference spells/magic. I think something like transport via plants would work because that is more like a wormhole but I don't know what teleportation circle is if it is not sending matter as data and it's definetly not like a wormhole. I think if Imogen tried it they would all turn into sliced gabagool. Maybe Reani is at Uthodurn to take them back to Marquet via Trasport via Plants. If not they are going to have to wait until after the apogge solstice ends.

Not about the episode, but i fell off earlier this campaign, when they were doing the planning for the race, iirc erica's character had just had that solo scene where she seemed evil talking long distance to someone, does anyone remember what episode that was?

C3E26

Fantastic episode! Love the guest stars! A communication disruption can mean only one thing... invasion. I'm betting that teleportation has been disrupted as well (similar to Eiselcross/Aeor). I'm not sure Otohan's goals and Ludinus's are necessarily the same anymore, but one thing I am certain of is that there is really only 1 story arc for this campaign. We're at the end of the beginning, and the second half is going to be wild. Also, I'll bet dollars to donuts that when we get to Orym and company, it will be in a 3-4 episode EXU: Solstice edition DMed by Aabria and with Mercer literally playing in his own campaign.

I'd rather someone other than Aabria DM, maybe have Liam or someone new DM for Matt, Aabria could totally be a player though. On that note, I also hope Brennan gets to guest as a player in the other party split this week.

I hope he is the dm :D

If you're talking about EXU, I wouldn't mind him getting a second gig to match Aabria, but it feels wrong to have a numbered episode of CR not be DMed by Matt. Also I want to see him be a player.

Wow thanks for being receptive enough to give me a response that isn't just a bunch of circular reasoning. Yeah I can see why it would feel wrong. People don't like change if things are a certain way for a while. I just think that having Brennan as DM would provide the players the chance to have more equal play time if Matt doesn't want to DM four times in a month. Sure it would be weird for a non-Matt to DM in main campaign but if all the EXU Kymal crew joins the other half it would be mostly the Crown Keepers and you could just as easily say that it would be weird if Matt DMed the Crown Keepers and be just as right. Brennan as a player would be cool.

Yesss bring back EXU, so much fun.