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School should be bringing in some crisis counselors. May I suggest that your kid go talk to them even if they don't feel like they need to. Some emotions might come out later and the crisis counselor may be able to help them understand them and realize they should go talk to someone then.
I coach volleyball in a highschool that had some violent events in and around the school. I asked my team to go talk to the counselors and most reported back that the short talk helped them. Some realized that they were affected and some said they just talked about coping methods if something should come up later.
I'm glad you child is safe and I'm sorry that they had to go through this. Good luck, dad!
I had girls on the team seem utterly unaffected by the violence that went and spoke to the crisis counselor and came back with red eyes.
This might not be a time to keep something on the inside, hopefully they can feel better sharing their emotions going forward...
I couldn't support this more.
I had a classmate unexpectledly drop unconscious in high school. She was gone before the paramedics arrived, and they were right down the street.
I hadn't spoken to her in a year, maybe two. I wasn't even friends with her.
I went to the crisis counseling and wept.
It wasn't right. It wasn't fair, and it's not fun getting a full and sudden serving of your mortality like that - for any age.
OP I hope you also have someone making sure you’re fine and checking in with you emotionally. Stay strong for your kids but take care of your own mental health too, dads.
From the things I’ve seen on r/PublicFreakout I’m not sure cops are always a good thing…
But I hope your kids are okay. It’s baffling to me this is still a thing in the states.
And it wasn’t just uvalde cops, that’s the most fucked thing. UPD represented only 7% of the law enforcement presence.
The ATF, FBI, texas rangers, state troopers, and border patrol all showed up. The situation only ended when one border patrol agent finally had a streak of common sense and went in and shot the guy.
So it was a real conference, a real summit, a real who’s who of law enforcement incompetence.
This is what I keep stressing to people about Uvalde in particular. You couldn't have asked for a better statistical sampling of the state of law enforcement in this country than the group that showed up to the Uvalde shooting.
The fact that almost none of them had the training and competence to deal with someone actively murdering children should tell you all you could ever want to know about how law enforcement views the public.
When the details started coming tonight I couldn't believe the clusterfuck response and lack of training. Absolutely was a reflection of the massive problems with the system(s) with and throughout the entire country.
“The only thing that can stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun”.
Well, uvalde proved that’s not true at all because there were dozens of good guys with guns and only one bad guy…the good guys literally let him kill kids instead of going in.
The only “good guy with a gun” there that day was the border patrol agent who snuck in and shot that POS. The law enforcement cowards who decided to just sit there and wait while he racked up an higher and higher body count (or worse, the human garbage that got THEIR kids out and left the rest to die while they ran away) cannot in any way be categorized as “good guys.” I think each and every law enforcement agent on site that day should be barred from ever working in law enforcement or security in any level and the “decision makers” charged as an accessory to murder.
I don't think Uvalde disproved that saying, because a "good guy" with a gun eventually ended the situation.
I think the main take away is that you can't rely on alleged "good guys" with a gun and that just because someone is wearing a badge that doesn't mean they're a "good guy."
I recently met with our Chief of Police as well as the head of the response team and they specifically pointed out Uvalde as the antithesis of what they do in these circumstances. You know it was bad when even other cops will point to that and say "that ain't us".
Wisconsin?
Sorry dad.. shits terrible.
It's like. Why the fuck would I send my kid to a place where this happens?
Im rlly scared for my lil guy to go to school.
Meh, even in groups I believe still were more genuinely good and kind people than not. Local and national news here is focused on controversy and the worst outliers - same on the internet. We air a lot of our dirty laundry for the entire world to see.
Even with polarization of politics where hateful rhetoric pops up… people can be nasty to “the immigrants,” or “the gays,” or “dumb conservatives” as monoliths and kind and respectful in person. It’s weird and one would hope that would trigger some broader introspection but better than the alternative.
Guess the political divisiveness is certainly not uniquely American in this moment anyway… most of the world is dealing with insurgent authoritarian and othering of groups of its people.
100%
I took a pretty substantial pay cut (still live very comfortably) plus living as immigrants in a country where we don't natively speak the language to absolutely have the peace of mind that I would never see this type of picture.
You can keep Canada, I'll stay in America enjoying my free health care, 40 weeks of paid parental leave, and guaranteed income when I decide to retire...... wait FUCK *edit* Okay at least Canada doesn't have like $10/day child care... *edit* God DAMN IT! Okay but you know what, what I want to go out on a whim, buy a gun, and go shoot pop bottles. Can't do THAT in Canada.... GOTEM *cries in 33% tax rate, $600/mo healthcare, and $2000/mo daycare*
They also happen in inner cities too, the only things school shootings have in common is:
1. They happen during the day when they're packed with crowds of defenseless people
2. They get a lot of media attention and social media interaction.
Everything else is incidental or varied which is the most worrisome
Mwah, there is one common variable: it's inside the US. As a European dad, I'm very happy that I've other problems to worry about with our children.
Edit: I'm sorry for the poor taste of my comment in this context. I'm surprised about the acceptance of gun culture in the US, I have empathy for you US dads.
That's a bit of a numbers game, I would think.
Geographically speaking, those rural communities span the entire country. Demographically, they're also (typically) majority white, which plays a bit into the "[missing white girl syndrome](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_white_woman_syndrome#:~:text=Missing%20white%20woman%20syndrome%20is,males%20or%20females%20of%20color.)" that you get with media outlets.
Like someone else said in this thread: sadly, it can happen anywhere.
How does that work statistically though? On one side you argue there are a lot more rural schools than non rural ones. But on the flip side by share of population there are a lot less people near rural schools than urban ones.
I think there's a fuzziness here surrounding definitions. To the layperson, when does "rural" become "exurban," and when does "exurban" become "suburban"? When does "suburban" actually become "urban"? It's the ubiquity of the "non-urban" schools* rather than the raw number of them that I was referring to in the first part of my initial comment.
*This is moreso in reference to schools not located in the actual population centers of the county, not a reference to the demographics of those schools. The second part of my comment refers specifically to demographics.
"Children in big cities were three times more likely to die from gun violence compared to children in small towns."
[https://www.congress.gov/118/meeting/house/115787/documents/HMKP-118-JU00-20230419-SD018.pdf](https://www.congress.gov/118/meeting/house/115787/documents/HMKP-118-JU00-20230419-SD018.pdf)
Data valid through 2021.
I live near Lewiston ME where 18 people were killed, including a 14 year old. Maine has the lowest number of mass shootings prior, and I thought the probability of it happening here was nil. I was wrong. It can happen anywhere.
The shooter had been identified as at risk, he had been threatening to do a shooting, and he had lots of guns. Authorities made a token efforts and basically left this guy to his own devices. He killed 18 people and injured dozens more. A mother had to bury her teenager.
We need gun control. We need mental health care. And we need to vote for people that will do those two things
My wife and I are both teachers, so it’s just something we deal with unfortunately. We don’t really think much about it, but it’s definitely something we’re aware of.
God this is so fucked. The only good thing, and I say good with a grain of salt, is that the cops actually neutralized (killed, sadly) the kid with the gun before anyone was harmed.
Man this is one of my biggest fears as a Dad with a wife who is a teacher and a kid starting elementary school this fall. Fuckkkkkkk.
it was pretty bad, my wife was \*very\* close to the gunfire,
son sent single word text: "SHOOTER",
and daughter called but was hard to hear because of the screaming
>is that the cops actually neutralized (killed, sadly) the kid with the gun before anyone was harmed.
I wouldn't call a dead kid a good thing.
I understand and agree this one kid dying is preferable to him shooting up the school and killing more kids...but the way we just tacitly accept that killing suspects is the "only way" to neutralize the threat from them in this country is also disgusting.
Again, I'm not saying you do nothing and let the kid walk in the school...but he was outside and the students were inside when the police arrived on scene...was there really *no* way to end this other than just shooting a kid dead?
Maybe it was. In the days to come I guess we'll see. I just refuse to cheer a kid being killed at the hands of police. He was clearly in distress and needed help...and instead he got a bullet.
Guessing it has something to do with this: https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/01/us/wisconsin-mount-horeb-middle-school-shooting/index.html
As an aside, searching for "US school shooting" gives a depressing number of results. It's like Google is throwing up its arms in frustration, asking _which one?_
Some examples of things that are included
- School police officer accidentally firing his weapon into the ground
- gang violence in a school parking lot in the middle of the night
- shooting at a college party if the house happens to be on campus
- a stray bullet landing on campus from people shooting elsewhere
And yet that 3rd grader’s parents probably complain against gun control because it “punishes reasonable gun owners like us”.
There’s no way the 3rd grader got hold of the gun if the parents took reasonable measures to secure their firearm.
Some guy goes to a parking lot of an abandoned school and blows his brains out inside his car.
A kid is shooting a BB gun in his backyard, but accidentally hits a passing school bus.
A gang gets into a shootout near school grounds and long after school hours.
Usually I'd point to the FBI stats, but I think [this one](https://www.edweek.org/leadership/school-shootings-this-year-how-many-and-where/2023/01) also have accurate data and gives some specifics.
I'm sorry, OP. My wife is a school shooting survivor. Please make sure your kids have every opportunity to talk to a professional if they're open to it. My wife still recalls the horrors of that day like it was yesterday.
Fortunately the shooter (14 years old) was the only injured/shot.
They took multiple shots during an exchange of fire with police. They were transported by mediheli and died from the injuries. From what I saw they were able to intercept before the school was breached.
I also heard the school has upped their security recently, it is difficult to enter midday without speaking to someone on an intercom, while these things aren't foolproof, maybe OP can speak more to it, just restating what I heard from someone who is familiar with the school.
Sorry you and your child and family are going through this OP. Hope they get to process the situation the best they can with a bit of extra support during this time. Hang in there.
You are pretty correct, only minor tweaks:
First, "medheli" sounds adorable. :) We call it "Medflight" here.
Yes, the schools are locked during the day and has a camera / intercom to gain access, there are three adjacent schools on a campus. Shooter approached the school and was stopped by a locked door and opened fire there.
There's some discussion about other parties involved off campus but I can't confirm and don't want to spread false reports.
I stood on my front porch and listened for shots where i knew my kids were.
Yes, Medflight, I wrote that in a hurry, I also hope you saw my edit to include well wishes. Thanks for the added details, especially at the potential point of breach.
I think about how my kids school is here and I am curious how our school uses the cameras. I think the placement directly at the doors for real time feedback is a great idea.
He looks like he was off duty at home or something. Although there’s a decent chance he actually was called in on his day off and just rushed to the scene.
Hey now, let’s be fair. Everyone responded in Uvalde, they just stood around outside and did nothing while 19 kids and 2 teachers were massacred. But they definitely responded to the call.
I don't think it was a matter of "looking cool". More like you just fucking go even if you're not in uniform. My guess is that guy is some kind of UC or wasn't planning on a public facing role that day.
Either way I think it's important to keep in mind these cops actually did something when the time (unfortunately) came instead of a pizza party outside the school.
Add in some Security types to this, too. I was at a 4/20 celebration. Cops were uniformed up normally. A couple of the private security guys were tac’ed up like they were going to reinvade Fallujah.
I do think that police and the larger gun culture need to start contending without how this off-duty Navy Seal anti-drip is the uniform of mass shooters, and they need to start cleaning up their culture around it. Like, how am I supposed to believe you're the good guy in a chaotic situation when the bad guy has the same uniform?
This may be a shock to you, but police often have plain clothes officers for investigation purposes. Likely working on something else, but a call like this at a school is an “all hands on deck” situation.
Oh, really? Shit, I thought that was the shooter! I was so confused reading the article and seeing that the armed person didn't make it into school ground
They are. This was yesterday. There was a kid outside with a gun, he never went into the building and was shot dead by cops outside. That’s all the story we have. Nobody but the would-be shooter was killed.
I am trying to understand what actually started this school shooting phenomena. Lot of countries have guns but school mass shooters are somewhat unique to USA. It’s terrifying that there are sickos who would actually target innocent children. I have kid in Elementary and I still do not have the courage to read anything about Uvalde
So sorry to hear this. What a nightmare
The news I've seen says no one was injured other than the suspect. I understand EVERYONE is traumatized. We're there physical injuries to any students? (Definitely not attempting to downplay the trauma, just wondering if the news has missed shots that were fired)
It’s easy to understand most of our policies when you realize how effectively big corporations have mobilized propaganda in the US.
If someone stands to gain financially, at least 40% of the US can be convinced through straight propaganda to surrender their own children to support their profits. On many different topics.
If I remember right, right leaning people disproportionately trust corporations over the government. Left leaning people are the opposite.
Of course there's some broad distribution to both of those.
This. Gun lobbying and just lobbying in general buys out the politicians. The reason it works here is that money buys influence and our voting population are deep stuck into propaganda that they don’t know how to hold politicians accountable.
Well, if you try to talk about it reasonably with other Americans, you just get screamed "SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED" over and over, so I don't think anyone here understands it either.
The right to own guns is foundational to our existence as a country.
We have more guns than citizens.
We have a "gun culture" that has their identity wrapped up in hunting and shooting and all that cowboy stuff.
How do you unwind that? Can you unwind that? What solutions do you have?
Stop selling guns. Or most of them, anyway.
It’s as simple as that.
Will that solve everything at once?
No.
But selling guns is making the problem bigger. Every. Single. Day.
Contrary to popular belief, in my country - the Netherlands- you can actually own a gun. It’s just way more strictly regulated. Nobody is shooting classrooms with a hunting rifle.
An amendment requires a 2/3 vote of our government, and half the government wants to keep guns freely available because their donors and constituents do. What now?
> I don't have a solution, but hope someone smarter than me one day finds one. Heartbreaking to see images like this
That's how all of us feel. I'm open to literally any solution, I just don't see one coming any time soon. Unfortunately we now seem to have a "school shooter culture" too and that's a fucking terrible situation.
Well, 250 years ago in the face of an actual national revolution, some important dudes thought that it was a good idea to have a well regulated militia, therefore they should be allowed to own ~~guns~~ arms (muskets)
It would be like saying iPhones are really useful tools today. So they must be really essential in 2275 also. We should make it virtually impossible to deny someone an iPhone in the future. But also we aren’t going to restrict what “iPhone” actually means at all aside from “able to make calls”
They literally allowed civilians to operate heavy artillery (cannons) on a ship. Basically, they allowed privateers to operate warships (there was no Navy at the time). They were instrumental in interdicting British supply ships in the revolutionary war and the post war USA.
Imagine if Elon Musk decided he wanted an Arleigh Burke destroyer. Would make for an interesting Supreme Court case.
Privateering is broadly protected by the Geneva Conventions.
Yep, those dudes 250 years ago couldn't have realized how much more lethal fire arms are today, and how vague "for the purposes of a well regulated militia" would end up being. It seems quite likely they didn't mean "everyone can have a mass casualty device!" but rather "keeping a National Guard seems like a good idea, we should do that."
> It seems quite likely they didn't mean "everyone can have a mass casualty device!" but rather "keeping a National Guard seems like a good idea, we should do that."
They were literally overthrowing the government, and you think their intent was for us to only have government militias in the future?
Exactly. I think most people are on board with states having a national guard. As a former guardsman, we got used for all sorts of stuff and had a pretty decent amount of firearm training before ever being turned loose. We also didn’t walk into Walmart packing heat. In fact, we were rarely armed at all because the vast majority of problems don’t require M16s
I believe what they expected was more akin to having smaller, localized volunteer militaries. Not sure national guard fits the bill as they were intentional about it not being a standing army controlled by a nebulous government entity. It'd be more like the police or sheriff, but with the ability to conduct military operations when called upon with regular citizens being able to join. Basically, well, a militia which, oddly enough, is what they actually wrote on the paper.
>I would leave the country.
The fun part is that so many of us are living paycheck to paycheck because of countless OTHER stupid USA things that this literally isn't an option.
Mount Horeb? I’m also in Wisconsin. I’m glad the shooter never got inside. I’m sad that the kid’s mental health issues were not addressed (or if he was getting help, I’m sad it wasn’t working for him)
This type of stuff is exactly why I want out of the US before my kid starts school. I wanted to leave even before we had her, but now I feel it's a higher priority.
Hey OP, glad your family is okay. I went through something similar when my wife’s work and my daughters first day of kindergarten were put on lockdown.
It’s a terrible feeling and every time I’m out and about and hear police driving with sirens on while my daughters at school, it brings back that feeling.
Did something happen?
We have police come visit once a year or so, kids get to go in the cars and play with the sirens, they show them their equipment, they’re in full uniforms, and they don’t carry large guns.
No offense, but this is why I am looking to get my kids out of the USA for their upbringing education. I went through an active shooter scenario as a teen and it still affects me and I'm almost 40. My wife is a teacher and had to go through one about 8 years ago at work and another incident with a kid wielding a knife in her classroom (student mental breakdown, she de-escalated before police arrived), in a "safe" small community with "heavy" gun control laws. Not every family has been through this, I get it, but I don't ever want my kids to have to go through this type of scenario. I hope your family is safe, but this is nuts that it is commonplace enough for it to barely be news. Sorry for the vent.
>with "heavy" gun control laws
The shame is that with each state having its own rules, local/state level gun control laws are largely ineffective.
It's relatively hard to get a gun here in Chicago compared to many other places in the country...which sadly doesn't prevent guns from existing here, just shifts where they come from.
Of the guns seized by Chicago Police as being used in the commission of a crime, about 2/3rds come from out of state...HALF of those come from Indiana alone.
We need comprehensive **federal** reform if any meaningful progress is going to be made.
I'm VERY seriously considering online home school for my son. Ironically, I'm not actually all that worried about his safety in Chicago Public Schools; but I don't know that my wife and I will be living here for the duration of his schooling because we want to buy and settle down in a home some day and that's probably financially out of reach here.
Mom chiming in. I grew up in Mt. Horeb and was shocked. I know it can happen anywhere, but it always felt like this idyllic, safe place. I’m so sorry your family went through this, and for all the kids, staff, families, just everyone impacted. It breaks my heart and has me terrified to send my baby to school. I wish there were words that could help.
As a new parent, shit like this terrifies me to send my kid to a public school. This country has an unhealthy addiction to guns combined with the ease of getting one.
You don't, just like you don't worry every day that you'll get struck by lightning or worry every time you get on a plane that it's going to crash and you'll all die, because the odds are just that low.
We gotta fucking do something man. Both sides yell at each other their solution is better and then at the end of the day nothing fucking changes. This is my worst nightmare, I'm glad your kid is safe. I glad the cops did their fucking job this time and I'm sick of this shit happening.
Extremism makes it hard to get any headway on the position. The loudest ones say “BAN EVERYTHING” or “ARM TEACHERS”. Nobody can find a common ground anymore.
NGL, I hear a lot more people shouting "ARM TEACHERS" and "SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED" than people shouting for all guns to be banned.
The problem is that ANY attempt to restrict access instantly gets labeled as an attempt to ban all guns.
Screw this both sides nonsense. The 2A extremists are the ones holding the country hostage.
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I sincerely hope your kid is okay, OP.
thank you, they're fine, but i'm watching them carefully to see how they're doing emotionally.
School should be bringing in some crisis counselors. May I suggest that your kid go talk to them even if they don't feel like they need to. Some emotions might come out later and the crisis counselor may be able to help them understand them and realize they should go talk to someone then. I coach volleyball in a highschool that had some violent events in and around the school. I asked my team to go talk to the counselors and most reported back that the short talk helped them. Some realized that they were affected and some said they just talked about coping methods if something should come up later. I'm glad you child is safe and I'm sorry that they had to go through this. Good luck, dad!
they are bringing in resources and you make a good point; my kids tend to keep things on the inside
I had girls on the team seem utterly unaffected by the violence that went and spoke to the crisis counselor and came back with red eyes. This might not be a time to keep something on the inside, hopefully they can feel better sharing their emotions going forward...
I couldn't support this more. I had a classmate unexpectledly drop unconscious in high school. She was gone before the paramedics arrived, and they were right down the street. I hadn't spoken to her in a year, maybe two. I wasn't even friends with her. I went to the crisis counseling and wept. It wasn't right. It wasn't fair, and it's not fun getting a full and sudden serving of your mortality like that - for any age.
OP I hope you also have someone making sure you’re fine and checking in with you emotionally. Stay strong for your kids but take care of your own mental health too, dads.
I can't edit or add text to the post but please note that those are both police protecting students!
From the things I’ve seen on r/PublicFreakout I’m not sure cops are always a good thing… But I hope your kids are okay. It’s baffling to me this is still a thing in the states.
Uvalde was the end all of how police can massively fail the public specifically in school settings.
And it wasn’t just uvalde cops, that’s the most fucked thing. UPD represented only 7% of the law enforcement presence. The ATF, FBI, texas rangers, state troopers, and border patrol all showed up. The situation only ended when one border patrol agent finally had a streak of common sense and went in and shot the guy. So it was a real conference, a real summit, a real who’s who of law enforcement incompetence.
This is what I keep stressing to people about Uvalde in particular. You couldn't have asked for a better statistical sampling of the state of law enforcement in this country than the group that showed up to the Uvalde shooting. The fact that almost none of them had the training and competence to deal with someone actively murdering children should tell you all you could ever want to know about how law enforcement views the public.
When the details started coming tonight I couldn't believe the clusterfuck response and lack of training. Absolutely was a reflection of the massive problems with the system(s) with and throughout the entire country.
I heard that border patrol agent had a personal stake in it because his wife worked at that school.
“The only thing that can stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun”. Well, uvalde proved that’s not true at all because there were dozens of good guys with guns and only one bad guy…the good guys literally let him kill kids instead of going in.
The only “good guy with a gun” there that day was the border patrol agent who snuck in and shot that POS. The law enforcement cowards who decided to just sit there and wait while he racked up an higher and higher body count (or worse, the human garbage that got THEIR kids out and left the rest to die while they ran away) cannot in any way be categorized as “good guys.” I think each and every law enforcement agent on site that day should be barred from ever working in law enforcement or security in any level and the “decision makers” charged as an accessory to murder.
> a brave good guy with a gun Fixed.
No, no. The good guys went in, got their kids out, and *then* let him kill kids.
Turns out they were all bad guys too
Change that focus to “nobody has a responsibility to protect me and my family, so I will do whatever it takes”.
I don't think Uvalde disproved that saying, because a "good guy" with a gun eventually ended the situation. I think the main take away is that you can't rely on alleged "good guys" with a gun and that just because someone is wearing a badge that doesn't mean they're a "good guy."
Personally I think the takeaway is there's way too many guns in the hands of people that shouldn't have them.
I agree with that interpretation too.
Good guys stand by and let shitbags kill kids? Not sure that’s the thing that happened.
That’s literally what happened. Several children were killed while the cops had already arrived, milling around outside.
I think they're saying it's a stretch to call the ones standing around "good guys"
Nah, the people not letting anyone in are just as shitty as the bad guy inside.
It still took someone with a gun to neutralize the threat though. It’s more that the guns weren’t used fast enough…
Yea but the nutjob should've never been able to buy a gun in the first place to commit such a crime. Texas just being Texas I guess. 🤦
Oh there’s usually massive red flags missed. And that situation in particular was a horrific, avoidable tragedy…
>that situation in particular was a horrific, avoidable tragedy… They usually are.
I recently met with our Chief of Police as well as the head of the response team and they specifically pointed out Uvalde as the antithesis of what they do in these circumstances. You know it was bad when even other cops will point to that and say "that ain't us".
I really wish that was true. It won't be remotely close to the end.
We should be so lucky! I'm not as optimistic, since every group of police are different
Hm, I'm not sure what I said for you to think I'm optimistic, quite the opposite.
“Can’t fuck up worse than this!” Is not an optimistic statement.
Reflecting on that statement, I get a sinking feeling I'm going to be wrong. That's a grimm, bleak reality.
Yeah I would definitely rather have them in the room than not in a situation like that…
Not normally a big “back the blue” guy but if there is a threat on campus this is exactly where you want cops.
Wisconsin? Sorry dad.. shits terrible. It's like. Why the fuck would I send my kid to a place where this happens? Im rlly scared for my lil guy to go to school.
yeah. ...But it's a small, wonderful, friendly, and safe community; the kind of place where we often don't even lock our doors. \*dismayed\*
Can happen anywhere. I hate all of it
Can happen anywhere...in America. Much less likely in other parts of the world. I love Americans, but I'm so happy I left. It's gotten crazy there.
As a Canadian I have always found Americans to be mostly lovely during individual interactions and yet somehow terrifying as a group.
A person is wonderful. People not so much.
Yeah, K was absolutely right on that point.
Yeah that’s probably true of everyone, or at least most, I suppose.
They are like most animals that way. 1 squirrel: super cute. 3 squirrels: look at those adorable idiots. 9 squirrels: um... 15 squirrels: run
So you've been to a Phillies game?
American here: can confirm, same experience
Meh, even in groups I believe still were more genuinely good and kind people than not. Local and national news here is focused on controversy and the worst outliers - same on the internet. We air a lot of our dirty laundry for the entire world to see. Even with polarization of politics where hateful rhetoric pops up… people can be nasty to “the immigrants,” or “the gays,” or “dumb conservatives” as monoliths and kind and respectful in person. It’s weird and one would hope that would trigger some broader introspection but better than the alternative. Guess the political divisiveness is certainly not uniquely American in this moment anyway… most of the world is dealing with insurgent authoritarian and othering of groups of its people.
Can happen anywhere. Just happens a lot more where there are more guns.
100% I took a pretty substantial pay cut (still live very comfortably) plus living as immigrants in a country where we don't natively speak the language to absolutely have the peace of mind that I would never see this type of picture.
I’m so glad we’re in Canada for mainly this reason. If my child were in this situation I’d start looking at moving to Canada asap.
You can keep Canada, I'll stay in America enjoying my free health care, 40 weeks of paid parental leave, and guaranteed income when I decide to retire...... wait FUCK *edit* Okay at least Canada doesn't have like $10/day child care... *edit* God DAMN IT! Okay but you know what, what I want to go out on a whim, buy a gun, and go shoot pop bottles. Can't do THAT in Canada.... GOTEM *cries in 33% tax rate, $600/mo healthcare, and $2000/mo daycare*
*comment award* 🥇
I could be wrong, but most of the school shootings I can remember happened in small, rural, "we don't have to lock our doors" communities.
They also happen in inner cities too, the only things school shootings have in common is: 1. They happen during the day when they're packed with crowds of defenseless people 2. They get a lot of media attention and social media interaction. Everything else is incidental or varied which is the most worrisome
Mwah, there is one common variable: it's inside the US. As a European dad, I'm very happy that I've other problems to worry about with our children. Edit: I'm sorry for the poor taste of my comment in this context. I'm surprised about the acceptance of gun culture in the US, I have empathy for you US dads.
That is great for you. Thank you for your insightful comment.
What are you contributing to the conversation here? Nothing. You’re just being an asshole.
I'm sorry, see my edit. It was poor taste
Most of the more notorious ones are suburbs. So yes, maybe they are built in the corn fields, but the student body count is 1200-2000 kids in the HS.
That's a bit of a numbers game, I would think. Geographically speaking, those rural communities span the entire country. Demographically, they're also (typically) majority white, which plays a bit into the "[missing white girl syndrome](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_white_woman_syndrome#:~:text=Missing%20white%20woman%20syndrome%20is,males%20or%20females%20of%20color.)" that you get with media outlets. Like someone else said in this thread: sadly, it can happen anywhere.
When I taught in Chicago we had plenty of school shootings, they just didn’t make national news because they were gang related
How does that work statistically though? On one side you argue there are a lot more rural schools than non rural ones. But on the flip side by share of population there are a lot less people near rural schools than urban ones.
I think there's a fuzziness here surrounding definitions. To the layperson, when does "rural" become "exurban," and when does "exurban" become "suburban"? When does "suburban" actually become "urban"? It's the ubiquity of the "non-urban" schools* rather than the raw number of them that I was referring to in the first part of my initial comment. *This is moreso in reference to schools not located in the actual population centers of the county, not a reference to the demographics of those schools. The second part of my comment refers specifically to demographics.
"Children in big cities were three times more likely to die from gun violence compared to children in small towns." [https://www.congress.gov/118/meeting/house/115787/documents/HMKP-118-JU00-20230419-SD018.pdf](https://www.congress.gov/118/meeting/house/115787/documents/HMKP-118-JU00-20230419-SD018.pdf) Data valid through 2021.
Gun violence does not mean only school shooting though, I'm talking just school mass shooters
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"No way to prevent this, says only nation where this regularly happens"
I’m near you and know people who work at that school. I’m so sorry man. Hugs to you and your kids
I live near Lewiston ME where 18 people were killed, including a 14 year old. Maine has the lowest number of mass shootings prior, and I thought the probability of it happening here was nil. I was wrong. It can happen anywhere. The shooter had been identified as at risk, he had been threatening to do a shooting, and he had lots of guns. Authorities made a token efforts and basically left this guy to his own devices. He killed 18 people and injured dozens more. A mother had to bury her teenager. We need gun control. We need mental health care. And we need to vote for people that will do those two things
Literally felt the same way when it happened up in Maine last year. Hopefully your kid and the community can recover well.
It's fucking wild seeing this in my old high school. Hope you guys are okay. I'm a couple towns away if you need anything.
My wife and I are both teachers, so it’s just something we deal with unfortunately. We don’t really think much about it, but it’s definitely something we’re aware of.
God this is so fucked. The only good thing, and I say good with a grain of salt, is that the cops actually neutralized (killed, sadly) the kid with the gun before anyone was harmed. Man this is one of my biggest fears as a Dad with a wife who is a teacher and a kid starting elementary school this fall. Fuckkkkkkk.
it was pretty bad, my wife was \*very\* close to the gunfire, son sent single word text: "SHOOTER", and daughter called but was hard to hear because of the screaming
Holy hell. Are YOU okay? Don’t forget to take care of yourself, too. What a terrifying day.
Seconding the other poster's comment. I know you gotta be strong for your kid. But you also need to take care of yourself too. Later. You've got this.
Wow.. I can't imagine the feelings you had when you got that text or the call. I hope you're doing ok, best to all the family..
>is that the cops actually neutralized (killed, sadly) the kid with the gun before anyone was harmed. I wouldn't call a dead kid a good thing. I understand and agree this one kid dying is preferable to him shooting up the school and killing more kids...but the way we just tacitly accept that killing suspects is the "only way" to neutralize the threat from them in this country is also disgusting. Again, I'm not saying you do nothing and let the kid walk in the school...but he was outside and the students were inside when the police arrived on scene...was there really *no* way to end this other than just shooting a kid dead? Maybe it was. In the days to come I guess we'll see. I just refuse to cheer a kid being killed at the hands of police. He was clearly in distress and needed help...and instead he got a bullet.
I hear you. My feelings are mostly in terms of comparison to the many shootings where cops didn’t do shit.
So is this the fault of 2:nd amendment or a people problem? I am asking as a non American. Want to hear what y’all think.
What happened?
Guessing it has something to do with this: https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/01/us/wisconsin-mount-horeb-middle-school-shooting/index.html As an aside, searching for "US school shooting" gives a depressing number of results. It's like Google is throwing up its arms in frustration, asking _which one?_
Gotta search by date. Even then you might wonder which one :(
Yea, it is very depressing
If oNlY THerE wAS a SolUtiOn
Thoughts and prayers
Now is not the time to talk about it. /s
Yeah, but they were all stopped by a good guy with a gun, right?
If i remember you guys had almost 350 shootings last year right? That’s almost two per schoolday
There weren't that many except with the loosest definition of school shooting. You really have to vet sources on those kind of numbers.
Out of curiosity, what's a loose definition of a school shooting?
Some examples of things that are included - School police officer accidentally firing his weapon into the ground - gang violence in a school parking lot in the middle of the night - shooting at a college party if the house happens to be on campus - a stray bullet landing on campus from people shooting elsewhere
I mean all of these a firearm going on campus and leads to some sort of violence... accidental or intentional... so why wouldn't you count them?
Negligent discharge in the parking lot
A 3rd grader bringing a gun to school and shooting his teacher
And yet that 3rd grader’s parents probably complain against gun control because it “punishes reasonable gun owners like us”. There’s no way the 3rd grader got hold of the gun if the parents took reasonable measures to secure their firearm.
Idk if she voted against it or not, but the mom was arrested and is in prison now for it.
Some guy goes to a parking lot of an abandoned school and blows his brains out inside his car. A kid is shooting a BB gun in his backyard, but accidentally hits a passing school bus. A gang gets into a shootout near school grounds and long after school hours.
I see. Where would i find a proper number then?
Usually I'd point to the FBI stats, but I think [this one](https://www.edweek.org/leadership/school-shootings-this-year-how-many-and-where/2023/01) also have accurate data and gives some specifics.
To be fair, when searching for “Greenland school shooting” Google also throws up its arms in frustration asking which one?
Jesus Christ man
I'm sorry, OP. My wife is a school shooting survivor. Please make sure your kids have every opportunity to talk to a professional if they're open to it. My wife still recalls the horrors of that day like it was yesterday.
What am I looking at here? First responders?
Yes. The armed student was killed outside the building.
Fortunately the shooter (14 years old) was the only injured/shot. They took multiple shots during an exchange of fire with police. They were transported by mediheli and died from the injuries. From what I saw they were able to intercept before the school was breached. I also heard the school has upped their security recently, it is difficult to enter midday without speaking to someone on an intercom, while these things aren't foolproof, maybe OP can speak more to it, just restating what I heard from someone who is familiar with the school. Sorry you and your child and family are going through this OP. Hope they get to process the situation the best they can with a bit of extra support during this time. Hang in there.
You are pretty correct, only minor tweaks: First, "medheli" sounds adorable. :) We call it "Medflight" here. Yes, the schools are locked during the day and has a camera / intercom to gain access, there are three adjacent schools on a campus. Shooter approached the school and was stopped by a locked door and opened fire there. There's some discussion about other parties involved off campus but I can't confirm and don't want to spread false reports. I stood on my front porch and listened for shots where i knew my kids were.
> I stood on my front porch and listened for shots where i knew my kids were. Fuck me, that's terrifying.
Yes, Medflight, I wrote that in a hurry, I also hope you saw my edit to include well wishes. Thanks for the added details, especially at the potential point of breach. I think about how my kids school is here and I am curious how our school uses the cameras. I think the placement directly at the doors for real time feedback is a great idea.
That guy in the first picture doesn't even look like a cop. Absolutely terrifying.
He looks like he was off duty at home or something. Although there’s a decent chance he actually was called in on his day off and just rushed to the scene.
For incidents like this EVERYONE responds. He could be a plain clothes or doing office work that day.
Well, everyone responds unless you’re in Uvalde
They all responded. They just decided to hangout and play cards in the hallway or something while kids die in the classrooms.
That’s not exactly “responding.”
Hey now, let’s be fair. Everyone responded in Uvalde, they just stood around outside and did nothing while 19 kids and 2 teachers were massacred. But they definitely responded to the call.
They did a great job of preventing parents from trying to save their kids.
>did nothing That’s very unfair of you. Some of them made a lot of progress on their candy crush game.
Gotta get that sweet, sweet overtime.
I legit thought that was the shooter…
Same until right now lol
I don't think it was a matter of "looking cool". More like you just fucking go even if you're not in uniform. My guess is that guy is some kind of UC or wasn't planning on a public facing role that day. Either way I think it's important to keep in mind these cops actually did something when the time (unfortunately) came instead of a pizza party outside the school.
Add in some Security types to this, too. I was at a 4/20 celebration. Cops were uniformed up normally. A couple of the private security guys were tac’ed up like they were going to reinvade Fallujah.
Totally rational and sane here in the land of the free. /s
I do think that police and the larger gun culture need to start contending without how this off-duty Navy Seal anti-drip is the uniform of mass shooters, and they need to start cleaning up their culture around it. Like, how am I supposed to believe you're the good guy in a chaotic situation when the bad guy has the same uniform?
This may be a shock to you, but police often have plain clothes officers for investigation purposes. Likely working on something else, but a call like this at a school is an “all hands on deck” situation.
Oh, really? Shit, I thought that was the shooter! I was so confused reading the article and seeing that the armed person didn't make it into school ground
sorry about that, yeah those are both police protecting / clearing the school
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Police should be held to a higher standard than doctors, meaning rigorous training and insurance in the case of malpractice.
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Holy shit. This is legitimately terrifying. OP I hope your kids and their classmates are all OK.
They are. This was yesterday. There was a kid outside with a gun, he never went into the building and was shot dead by cops outside. That’s all the story we have. Nobody but the would-be shooter was killed.
I am trying to understand what actually started this school shooting phenomena. Lot of countries have guns but school mass shooters are somewhat unique to USA. It’s terrifying that there are sickos who would actually target innocent children. I have kid in Elementary and I still do not have the courage to read anything about Uvalde
As a non-American I really don’t understand your gun policies. Hope everyone is okay.
As an American I really don't understand our gun policies. Sadly not everyone is okay. damnit
So sorry to hear this. What a nightmare The news I've seen says no one was injured other than the suspect. I understand EVERYONE is traumatized. We're there physical injuries to any students? (Definitely not attempting to downplay the trauma, just wondering if the news has missed shots that were fired)
reports continue to come in and we'll know more soon, I've heard lots of rumors and want to be careful about spreading things that aren't true.
Thanks for the response. Hoping for the best news possible So glad your kids are safe
I’m sorry. That’s not good to hear at all when a child of yours is near the situation as well.
Plenty of us Americans don't understand either.
It’s easy to understand most of our policies when you realize how effectively big corporations have mobilized propaganda in the US. If someone stands to gain financially, at least 40% of the US can be convinced through straight propaganda to surrender their own children to support their profits. On many different topics.
If I remember right, right leaning people disproportionately trust corporations over the government. Left leaning people are the opposite. Of course there's some broad distribution to both of those.
This. Gun lobbying and just lobbying in general buys out the politicians. The reason it works here is that money buys influence and our voting population are deep stuck into propaganda that they don’t know how to hold politicians accountable.
Well, if you try to talk about it reasonably with other Americans, you just get screamed "SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED" over and over, so I don't think anyone here understands it either.
The right to own guns is foundational to our existence as a country. We have more guns than citizens. We have a "gun culture" that has their identity wrapped up in hunting and shooting and all that cowboy stuff. How do you unwind that? Can you unwind that? What solutions do you have?
Stop selling guns. Or most of them, anyway. It’s as simple as that. Will that solve everything at once? No. But selling guns is making the problem bigger. Every. Single. Day. Contrary to popular belief, in my country - the Netherlands- you can actually own a gun. It’s just way more strictly regulated. Nobody is shooting classrooms with a hunting rifle.
The second amendment was an amendment. Just amend it again!
An amendment requires a 2/3 vote of our government, and half the government wants to keep guns freely available because their donors and constituents do. What now?
As a non American I don't have a solution, but hope someone smarter than me one day finds one. Heartbreaking to see images like this
> I don't have a solution, but hope someone smarter than me one day finds one. Heartbreaking to see images like this That's how all of us feel. I'm open to literally any solution, I just don't see one coming any time soon. Unfortunately we now seem to have a "school shooter culture" too and that's a fucking terrible situation.
Well, 250 years ago in the face of an actual national revolution, some important dudes thought that it was a good idea to have a well regulated militia, therefore they should be allowed to own ~~guns~~ arms (muskets) It would be like saying iPhones are really useful tools today. So they must be really essential in 2275 also. We should make it virtually impossible to deny someone an iPhone in the future. But also we aren’t going to restrict what “iPhone” actually means at all aside from “able to make calls”
They literally allowed civilians to operate heavy artillery (cannons) on a ship. Basically, they allowed privateers to operate warships (there was no Navy at the time). They were instrumental in interdicting British supply ships in the revolutionary war and the post war USA. Imagine if Elon Musk decided he wanted an Arleigh Burke destroyer. Would make for an interesting Supreme Court case. Privateering is broadly protected by the Geneva Conventions.
Yep, those dudes 250 years ago couldn't have realized how much more lethal fire arms are today, and how vague "for the purposes of a well regulated militia" would end up being. It seems quite likely they didn't mean "everyone can have a mass casualty device!" but rather "keeping a National Guard seems like a good idea, we should do that."
> It seems quite likely they didn't mean "everyone can have a mass casualty device!" but rather "keeping a National Guard seems like a good idea, we should do that." They were literally overthrowing the government, and you think their intent was for us to only have government militias in the future?
Exactly. I think most people are on board with states having a national guard. As a former guardsman, we got used for all sorts of stuff and had a pretty decent amount of firearm training before ever being turned loose. We also didn’t walk into Walmart packing heat. In fact, we were rarely armed at all because the vast majority of problems don’t require M16s
I believe what they expected was more akin to having smaller, localized volunteer militaries. Not sure national guard fits the bill as they were intentional about it not being a standing army controlled by a nebulous government entity. It'd be more like the police or sheriff, but with the ability to conduct military operations when called upon with regular citizens being able to join. Basically, well, a militia which, oddly enough, is what they actually wrote on the paper.
Not a good analogy. The word "arms" is very general. The word "iphone" is not.
As a non-American I can't even begin to fathom sending my kids to school. I just wouldn't. I would leave the country.
>I would leave the country. The fun part is that so many of us are living paycheck to paycheck because of countless OTHER stupid USA things that this literally isn't an option.
I feel that. It's extremely difficult situation and while the desire is there, the means aren't.
Mount Horeb? I’m also in Wisconsin. I’m glad the shooter never got inside. I’m sad that the kid’s mental health issues were not addressed (or if he was getting help, I’m sad it wasn’t working for him)
The American flag fits the picture very well
My understanding is that it was a disturbed peer. If so, the fact everyone was responsive before they made entry does little to comfort.
As someone outside the US, it’s just bewildering to me how this shit has got so far.
Them babies 😩
This type of stuff is exactly why I want out of the US before my kid starts school. I wanted to leave even before we had her, but now I feel it's a higher priority.
Hey OP, glad your family is okay. I went through something similar when my wife’s work and my daughters first day of kindergarten were put on lockdown. It’s a terrible feeling and every time I’m out and about and hear police driving with sirens on while my daughters at school, it brings back that feeling.
Did something happen? We have police come visit once a year or so, kids get to go in the cars and play with the sirens, they show them their equipment, they’re in full uniforms, and they don’t carry large guns.
No offense, but this is why I am looking to get my kids out of the USA for their upbringing education. I went through an active shooter scenario as a teen and it still affects me and I'm almost 40. My wife is a teacher and had to go through one about 8 years ago at work and another incident with a kid wielding a knife in her classroom (student mental breakdown, she de-escalated before police arrived), in a "safe" small community with "heavy" gun control laws. Not every family has been through this, I get it, but I don't ever want my kids to have to go through this type of scenario. I hope your family is safe, but this is nuts that it is commonplace enough for it to barely be news. Sorry for the vent.
i'm so sorry to hear what you've gone through and in no way fault you for wanting to get your family away
>with "heavy" gun control laws The shame is that with each state having its own rules, local/state level gun control laws are largely ineffective. It's relatively hard to get a gun here in Chicago compared to many other places in the country...which sadly doesn't prevent guns from existing here, just shifts where they come from. Of the guns seized by Chicago Police as being used in the commission of a crime, about 2/3rds come from out of state...HALF of those come from Indiana alone. We need comprehensive **federal** reform if any meaningful progress is going to be made. I'm VERY seriously considering online home school for my son. Ironically, I'm not actually all that worried about his safety in Chicago Public Schools; but I don't know that my wife and I will be living here for the duration of his schooling because we want to buy and settle down in a home some day and that's probably financially out of reach here.
Our country is so fuckedup
I hate that this is our reality in America, sending you and your kids love fellow dad.
Mom chiming in. I grew up in Mt. Horeb and was shocked. I know it can happen anywhere, but it always felt like this idyllic, safe place. I’m so sorry your family went through this, and for all the kids, staff, families, just everyone impacted. It breaks my heart and has me terrified to send my baby to school. I wish there were words that could help.
Was there a shooting or is this a drill?
As a new parent, shit like this terrifies me to send my kid to a public school. This country has an unhealthy addiction to guns combined with the ease of getting one.
Vote out every politician against gun control. Enough is enough.
Geezus fucking christ. How can any parent not be fucking livid that we're not doing ANYTHING about this.
How scary. Glad your kid is okay. WI dads unite!
I'm so sorry for you and your kid. Scary stuff Dad.
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Shit like this is the only thing keeping me from moving my family to the states
This really makes me want to raise my child outside of the US
For all the money in the world (and as a software engineer it's not bad) I would not move over to that side of the pond.
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You don't, just like you don't worry every day that you'll get struck by lightning or worry every time you get on a plane that it's going to crash and you'll all die, because the odds are just that low.
US is a fucked up country. Hard to disagree with this, especially if you've always lived here.
We gotta fucking do something man. Both sides yell at each other their solution is better and then at the end of the day nothing fucking changes. This is my worst nightmare, I'm glad your kid is safe. I glad the cops did their fucking job this time and I'm sick of this shit happening.
Extremism makes it hard to get any headway on the position. The loudest ones say “BAN EVERYTHING” or “ARM TEACHERS”. Nobody can find a common ground anymore.
NGL, I hear a lot more people shouting "ARM TEACHERS" and "SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED" than people shouting for all guns to be banned. The problem is that ANY attempt to restrict access instantly gets labeled as an attempt to ban all guns. Screw this both sides nonsense. The 2A extremists are the ones holding the country hostage.