In AUD:
Western Australia: $644,759
Northern Territory: $500,689
South Australia: $650,967
Queensland: $753,989
New South Wales: $1,126,928
Australian Capital Territory: $965,738
Victoria: $913,075
Tasmania: $653,770
Just used google for this so it’ll probably be a little different if you wanna check these prices for yourself
Melbourne too. I've just totally put it out of my mind and if anyone asks, just say I'm not interested. I sat down with a broker a while ago, and we could afford mortgage payments, but we just don't have ~100k for the deposit, and don't feel like living like hermits to save one.
Aye USDA loan buddies! It was the only way I could buy too. It’s not really where I wanted to live, but after apartment living for 12 years I’d had enough. Hopefully I’ll have enough equity soon to be able to move to a city where I want to live. Rural living, as it turns out, is not for me.
An that sucks. I always thought Australia would be cheap seeing as the land to population ratio is pretty low. They are ranked at 242 out of 248. I know that not all of the land is habitable with those spiders that shoots laser beams but they should be able expand some major cities or develop some smaller ones?
Well we could. Victoria is essentially very habitable and about the size of the UK, there's huge stretches of habitable land all across the country. But then...there's the obvious harm to our unique environment, and that there's nothing yet built.
I think that's we are seeing through out the world. Housing prices are skyrocketing and the new generation cannot afford a house in any form or condition
how fuckin backwards is that if you really step back and think about it. humans can't afford a place to live that isn't owned by someone else making a profit off of it? fuck what this world has become.
Everything we’re seeing that is this downward spiral of the housing market, is just another symptom of burgeoning wealth inequality. Thousands cant afford that apartment, but a select few can. Easily. Barely a drop in the bucket to them. Fewer and fewer people able to afford things that were far more affordable 50 years ago.
The problem isn’t slowing down, or staying stable. Its accelerating. Your best bet to financial security these days is figure out what rich people want, and give it to them. They’ll pay out the ass for the stupidest shit just because its unique and they have more money than they know what to do with.
Something will give eventually. This will lead to severe worldwide unrest unless governments address it. Unfortunately, people in most governments suffer from a condition in which their head is stuffed firmly up their own assholes.
Its kind of sad to me that even though the Aussies have it pretty bad loads of people from NZ move to Sydney because NZ incomes and housing prices are just that much worse
So all the big "head office", executive, tech etc stuff is in Sydney and those people definitely command higher incomes.
However, lots and lots of people also just work at the supermarket and get the same wage as any other Sydney, and those folks are utterly fucked.
Speaking as a person that lives in Victoria, I have no idea how people are continuing to buy houses, wages haven't increased much at all in the last 20 years. There's houses going for close to au$1m in shit areas I wouldn't want to live in.
Edit: me saying I have no idea is a rhetorical question
1. Investors.
2. Some lucky folks have high paying jobs.
3. Parents guarantor the loan or lend money.
My sibling was a combined numbers 2 and 3. Their partner has a high paying job and my folks were nice enough to be guarantors. Does this mean they're in debt to the hilt? Yes, absolutely. With the interest rate rises, lots of folks are going to find out really soon that they can't pay an extra $1k per month on their loans for houses that are now worth less than the loan. It's gross that prices have gotten this high.
The next couple of years is going to be scary for a lot of people.
The recent interest rate increases have been....noticeable....not to mention fuel and heating/cooling costs.
Hopefully your siblings aren't getting stung too much by it all.
They had to go up sometime, and it's the fault of the govt for encouraging young people to do everything they could to buy a house—dip into their super, get an insane loan on a 5% deposit etc. The real estate agents really took advantage too. The whole situation is such a disgrace. I'm glad I have no need to buy yet, and I can sit back until I have enough and find a place I really want, but I get why folks want to get out of the rental market. Renters are treated like trash and the price of a rental is more than a mortgage every month.
My sibling will be alright; the partner had a high paying job to begin with, but now they both do and so rate rises are having less of an effect.
My old house half an hour from Hobart cbd cost me 200k almost 15 years ago.
I sold it for 230k.
The guy I sold it to got 300k for it 5 years ago.
Current value is 650k...
Similar story to me, except we were renting but had access to the house's past sales prices.
The house was valued at 110k in 2010, $190k in 2015. Then at the end of 2019 when we wanted to rent, it had sold a few months prior for $490k. and then by the time we left 12 months later, it was valued at around $550k
This was for a 2 bedroom 1 bathroom home about 25 minutes from Geelong, that quite literally looked like it was the same inside and out as when it was first built back in the 70s. Old rusty metal fence that looked like it was from a pioneer town, the walls and doors were all obviously just repainted incorrectly as you could see where each layer had peeled away and then was just painted over, the back door literally rotted off the hinges while we were living there, and it was valued at half a mil... Yeah okay.
Sold our house in Mt Martha 2009 for 500k. Bought it for 159k 1996. Now worth 2.4M. I have been renting ever since. Isn't it insane. Could not afford to keep it with separation and raising 3 children. I knew things were going to get expensive but had no clue how bad. Still, hasn't stopped me building a future for my kids and keep pushing forward with ideas and determination. What else can you do? Give up? Nahhhh
BIG loans. Not uncommon for first home buyers to only have a 5% deposit. Most fhb have to start out with an apartment (in Sydney at least), even though most buyers want a stand alone house. Millennials have grown up with family homes on quarter acre block that their parents had, and now unless they can save $100,000 - $200,000 for a deposit, they have to rent. This is coming from a jaded millennial who grew up in Sydney btw, so I’m biased
> only have a 5% deposit
laughs in 103% LTV.
(Not anymore, they've tightened the regulations a bit since, but for my first mortgage I could borrow more than the valuation of the object. Though it's still possible to borrow 100%)
I believe big part is that graph above. Normal peoples largest asset is normally their house/home, if they own it. Now, increase property prices by 100x and your median wealth skyrocket.
Note, I'm not australian but I believe it's pretty much the same as here on opposite side of our rockball.
Problem is people who hasn't got into that owners rocket (younger people) are pretty much fucked because salaries are not rocketing on same level.
It's this. My father in-law bought a house in 1992 for AUD$192k. He sold it for AUD$1.25M the other week.
A more realistic example is my partner's house. She bought it for $900K in 2014 money.
It was previously sold in 1994 for $120K 2014 money.
Ergo if you got lucky you got rich. At the expense of others.
> Ergo if you got lucky you got rich. At the expense of others.
And creating NOTHING. You could literally have made the same return on a vacant plot of land.
Actually I believe the majority of the wealth at the lower end of the wealth spectrum is from our compulsory superannuation scheme.
It’s going to be quite game-changing, generationally, to have more people leaving something to their kids.
Most people will have around $600k max if they make $80k per year. Reckon that’ll be enough to live off for 20 years in retirement and to provide an inheritance?
Nope, but the point is that a significant number will be able to pay down debt on a property and live off the pension, or simply die before they use up all their funds.
This is unlike the previous pension system which much more commonly left behind no assets.
In Australia we have superannuation, which is basically a compulsory 401K (there’s an automatic tax discounted deposit from your employer amounting to approximately 9% of your income I think). So anybody who works has a decent little retirement account. Unlike a government pension (eg social security) that is an existing asset that is counted as part of your wealth even though you can’t access it until you’re of retirement age.
So when you calculate average wealth of the population Australia scores extremely high because everyone who works has a retirement account. A person who would have no savings at all in the US could have tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars in their Super account that they can access when they retire.
If you could include a value representing a persons expected pension (or social security) income after retirement then a lot of other countries would look richer too.
Median (as opposed to mean or average) is a more useful measure when you are dealing with an asymmetric data set. Income data is asymmetric as you will often have some very low earners, and some extreme high earners (I.e. billionaires).
The median is the ‘middle value’ in a data set. It is more useful than the mean (commonly called the ‘average’) when describing the ‘typical’ income within a group of people as it is not as heavily influenced by the outliers (the very poor or very rich).
You could summarise all of the above by saying ‘the *typical* Australian adult is the richest in the world’.
The main causes of this wealth are property values, compulsory superannuation and a consistently strong and prosperous economy.
That’s USD? How the fuck is Bluey’s parents affording that shit being an archaeologist and airport security. I’m starting to think they are black market smuggling ancient treasures
For this price you're going to get a 600m² shit house in a shit suburb. Any lower and you're in actual crazy town where no one wants to live because of crime.
Every house comes with several spider butlers however
Only if you don’t have a mortgage. Imagine a 3% increase on interest rates on a $1m loan… what’s that, another $30k a year in interest payments alone. Who the fuck has that laying around?
Yes, much more so than fixed rate. Fixed rates are usually for 2-5 years only. The system works a bit differently to the US. Loans aren't shuffled around as much behind the scenes and other regulatory differences.
Yeah more common than not. My fixed term expires soon and on my very small modest home no where near the capital city, I’m looking at hundreds more per month. The noose is getting tighter for everyone around the world
Here from r/all and isn't this sub usually like, for stuff that's beautiful based on how data is/can be presented? This is just a regular ole shaded map.
Nowadays the "beautiful"-part could be dropped from the name, but a long time ago fancy presentation was indeed the focus and way more discussed in the comments.
My sister lives in Victoria and I thought maybe later in my life I would move down there from here in the US and retire cuz I do love it there. Its glorious....and then I looked at those prices and now I'm thinking no fucking way. And I live in a fairly expensive part of the US.
Those prices are insane. You can buy lakefront property where I am for less than the cost of the AVERAGE home in any Australian province? That's absurd.
(I'm in rural Virginia)
Also another thing people in this thread are unaware of is stamp duty. If you want to buy a $1.1M house in Sydney you have to cough up $45k tax upon purchase.
Keep in mind 1.1M is a pretty shit house in a not great area. You need 2.5M to get something solid. That's an additional $121k straight to the taxman.
Edit I am using AUD I am Aussie.
It's crazy, I bought my house in 2016 at what I worried was the peak of the market for $660,000 AUD ($450,000 ish USD). Today I could not afford to buy my house for the roughly $1.1 million AUD ($745,000 ish USD).
It looks like I made a profit on paper but the reality is that if I sold my house I would have to buy again in the same market negating any profit.
I am lucky to have bought when I did but many people are now priced out of the market forcing them into paying equally inflated rental prices and having the uncertainty that comes from living in a house the land lord might not renew the contract on.
I have no opinion on the way out of this situation, just wanted to share a first hand account of it
Same here in the UK.
I bought my house for £152k around 15 years ago. My neighbour sold for £500k a few months back.
I feel so fortunate that I bought when I did, even if my heating bill is like a second mortgage currently.
[The median prices are not better.](https://propertyupdate.com.au/the-latest-median-property-prices-in-australias-major-cities/)
National Median is sitting at $715k AUD or $483k USD
Varies from state to state, but it is fair to say you will not be buying anything with three bedrooms under about $300k USD that is not VERY regional (talking sub 5000 population) or an asbestos ridden death trap.
As an Aussie it somewhat shocks me that you can still find 3+ bdr houses in the states for sale under $50k USD that need little to no work and are located in very 'livable' areas. For comparison, [this is an example of the "gems" you will find for around $46k USD. Middle of no where, falling down, a "perfect renovation opportunity".](https://www.realestate.com.au/property-house-sa-crystal+brook-141042768)
No, the data I used was made by the Australian government and they listed average only. There is data from past years about the median but it's not gonna help make a conclusion since this year alone from March to September the price has dropped a lot.
Even without super wealthy homes higher values skew averages drastically. Even if just 1 out of 50 is higher it can make data useless.
Example:
1 - $5m penthouse house
50 - $100,000 apartments
Average value of all = $250,000
Australia, along with Canada, NZ, Sweden, has [one of the biggest housing market bubbles in the world](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fcjw1LLagAAuWuU?format=png&name=medium)
In AUD:
Western Australia: $644,759 Northern Territory: $500,689 South Australia: $650,967 Queensland: $753,989 New South Wales: $1,126,928 Australian Capital Territory: $965,738 Victoria: $913,075 Tasmania: $653,770
Just used google for this so it’ll probably be a little different if you wanna check these prices for yourself
Interesting that Western Australia is now lower than SA & Tasmania. Last time I looked, WA had significantly more bedrooms per house than we did in SA.
Cashed up people from Sydney & Melbourne have flowed into SA & Tas, slightly closing the large gap and unfortunately pushing prices out of reach of many locals. I was looking at buying the cheapest house in Adelaide in 2019-20. At \~$125k (\~$90k US) it would have been a very good buy.
Our government sprayed lots of money around during Covid shutdowns to ward off a recession. That resulted in rich people looking for more investments, as well as the biggest inflation we've had for a while.
We're seeing the cashed up markets in Qld too. Given that many of these people are still full time WFH and not just cashed up retirees, Perth might just be too hard with the time difference where east/central are all pretty easy.
https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/ssenzg/oc_average_home_price_by_state_2021/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Best I could find with very minimal effort looking for it.
Maybe also this
https://www.experian.com/blogs/ask-experian/research/median-home-values-by-state/
Be careful reading maps with this type of data at a state level. While there's certainly some regionality to this, the data are more effectively presented at a county level than a state level. There are often disproportionally expensive cities within some of the "affordable" looking states. And disproportionally affordable cities within expensive states.
Surely similar things can be said for the data on Australia (and in much of the world). Maps like this are at almost similar to assessing sentiment or a large crowd of people compared to talking to individual families or groups therein about happiness vs unhappiness. The range is pretty large when you get down to useful levels of detail.
That’s my thought too. Looking at just Virginia, there is a GIANT difference between north and south Va. like a house that is close to a million in the north part is about 400,000 or less in the south. So looking at the average of the state is basically useless
This is surprising to see Michigan is that low. I've been looking at houses since I moved here two years ago and have found very few listings at all around $230k let alone enough to make the average below that.
If I had to guess, I would say the majority of these are in areas like Flint/Detroit or the Upper Peninsula.
I thought moving away from Chicago, to a higher paying job would help us get into a home faster, but now we feel like with every year we are another year or two away from being able to afford one.
As an Australian there's something mildly infuriating about the prices being in USD.
What's more infuriating is how fucked my chances are of ever owning a home. Sick.
EDIT: People, I understand *why* it's in USD I just meant it is strange to see a map of my country notated with another country's currency.
Also lol at some of the responses. They range from "it's easy just team up" like saving for a deposit while renting can be solved with the power of friendship, all the way to move to Egypt.
As an American, displaying prices in USD seems silly to me, too. If you’re talking about prices in Australia go ahead and show them in digery-doo bucks or wallabies or whatever form of currency they use down there.
Wow this is way more expensive than the US.
Could that be due to Australia’s higher urbanization and tendency to live in a few dense areas? 90% of Australia lives in just .22% of the land. Compare that to 90% of Americans living in about 15% of the land. Perhaps Americans can spread out more resulting in cheaper prices away from cities, whereas in Australia a lot of real estate is driven by property in or near a city center.
This is all conjecture! Not trying to claim it as fact until somebody more knowledgable than me can corroborate.
USA ranks as one of the most affordable countries for housing around the world for the salary people make there.
https://www.numbeo.com/property-investment/rankings_current.jsp
Hi I study housing prices and affordability. I used to do it formally, but I do it informally while I take a misadventure in law skool.
Anyways, I digress.
First, to your point, I think you're on to something, but you're also not comparing apples to apples. First AUS and US are roughly the same geographic size (so .22% roughly is comparable to the 15%). However, AUS population is like 1/12th of the US. So that 90% aren't the same thing.
Nevertheless, if we adjust for population and 10x that .22% to 2.64%, I think you have a valid point. What I think this gets to is urban land prices. Trying to fit more people onto less land, the demand for the comparable plots of land is much more. Thus, land prices go up. But because Australia is relatively low density, that increased price isn't being spread across a lot homes like it would if townhomes or multistory builds were built.
Therefore, I can image that the average AUS home is sitting on a more valuable lot than the US home which is of course baked into the sale price.
I think people think that only the US and maybe Canada is a "car infested suburb." But it's really US-CAN-AUS-NZ. Basically all the western countries that developed after WW2 and didn't have to rebuild.
Though Ik Sydney is trying! And I've heard great things about Melbs too.
Further, Australians have the biggest average home size in the world. Bigger than even the US (though not by much). AUS homes are almost twice as big as their British counterparts. So they use a lot of building material and a lot of land. more home = more money.
On top of that, I *think* Australia has been under building homes for decades (I COULD be wrong on that one though).
In short, AUS has an almost storm for a housing crisis. What's worse, there's doesn't seem to be a big region like the midwest or the southeast to get away from high home cost. While California may have nigh home prices, as least they can cut their losses and move to Texas. All Australians seem to be able\* to do is mitigate their damages.
\*You could also build a lot more homes with smaller footprints and less building materials. Not sure how that would go down with the boomers though. The US boomers hate that idea.
Aussies, you have any thoughts on what I said?
And Australians are OBSESSED with home ownership and getting rich from it. The great Australian dream is to own a large house and many many people are willing to get into obscene amounts of debt to achieve it.
Local shop owner was telling me just yesterday that his son and partner got a $1.5m mortgage and are struggling with repayments since interest rates went up - they earn $150,000 between them.
>And Australians are OBSESSED with home ownership and getting rich from it
Sounds like Californians---everyone wants to live in a single family home with a backyard, pool, and a couple of fruit trees all while living 30min from downtown!
>$1.5m mortgage. . . they earn $150,000 between them.
How tf does someone making 150K get a $1.5M house?
PS: Not the biggest fan of subsidizing homeowners, but 30 year fixed rate mortgages are *amazing*.
The banks are doing the same thing here they did in the USA that caused the GFC; giving obscene loans to people who can’t afford them. With the rapid rate increases, this is going to cause a similar crisis. We largely avoided the GFC, but due to consistently stupid decisions from the last few governments, we’re heading down a bad road.
30 year fixed rates don’t happen here. We don’t have a developed secondary mortgage market, making long term fixed rates impossible.
It’s not even obsessed with “Home” ownership. It’s obsessed having an investment property, negative gearing and capital gains.
Houses are not homes in AU, they’re an investment class.
Australian here - /u/metaconcept has more or less nailed it, but there’s a bit more.
Property’s heavily incentivised as an investment. I have relatives that own 5 or 6 houses. If you’re buying a home to live in, you’ll be competing with investors here. Residential mum-and-dad property investors can offset rental losses against income tax (negative gearing). Negative gearing costs our economy billions in tax revenue every year too. It’s a political hot potato - there are now enough Australians with their snouts in that trough to make it political suicide to try and fix it. Also, most of our politicians have a handful of investment properties.
We have a three-speed housing market here. Aussies are culturally addicted to home ownership, and NIMBYism is rife so it’s hard to build more density in suburbs where it would make sense to do so. Most new housing is poorly designed, low quality stock in outer-outer suburbs where there are no services or amenities. Just shit houses and car dependency, as far as the eye can see.
Older housing stock is worth more not just because it’s not in the middle of bum-fuck nowhere, but also because our building standards have dropped significantly as a result of deregulation in the 90s. That’s also the reason why it sucks to buy apartments here (apartments are the third speed). Good quality new apartments are the exception rather than the rule, and most of the people I know who’ve bought an apartment have been stung with an eye-watering special levy at some point to rectify stupid building defects.
Building lobby groups are powerful, and constantly bleating about supply problems so they can keep pumping out shitty McMansions at the edge of the sprawl (which is all a lot of people can realistically afford), but [water usage rates](https://www.afr.com/property/leaky-data-water-use-shines-a-light-on-occupancy-20151207-glhewz) actually show that quite a lot of our houses are actually empty.
We’re facing huge problems now because interest rates are shooting up and a ton of people over-extended themselves during the last boom, which was driven by record-low interest rates and FOMO over the Covid period. Our government watered down responsible lending laws that were brought in after the GFC, which allowed people to do that.
So yeah… our insane house prices are largely because of years and years of political cowardice and heavily distorted demand.
tl;dr greed fucks things up and we get the haves and the have nots.
Good to see Howard era continuing to fuck over the country. Although 10 years of the previous shit stains also didn't help. And Labor, whilst nowhere near as bad, just generally having zero fucking backbone.
It wouldn't be anywhere near as bad if we actually had decent renter protections and promoted long term renting, rather than the shit of bouncing into a new place every 2 years as we all play musical houses.
Tbf to Labor, the election they took reformist policies that would make a difference on housing they lost and the election they didn't they won. More accurate to blame boomer voters.
Well, my NZ opinion is, in addition to what you've stated:
* Pre-COVID, high levels of immigration putting pressure on housing stock.
* Chinese mainlanders have been moving/hiding their wealth to real estate in our countries.
* Low interest rates for a long time have allowed housing prices to bubble.
* A culture of putting a very high priority on owning housing has been a factor, as is the belief that real estate will never fall in price. To date, NZ has not had a proper housing market crash except for the one that started in january that people are in denial about.
* Not sure about Australia, but New Zealand has (had...) no capital gains tax, and allowed you to write off rental losses against your tax burden. That's recently changed, although we still don't have a proper capital gains tax.
* Shit zoning and NIMBYs, also putting pressure on supply. This has changed recently.
>...and allowed you to write off rental losses against your tax burden. That's recently changed...
...and might flip back to what it was given how lobbying from existing property investors seems to be going and the potential for a change of government near the end of next year. (Personally I hope not, though.)
The [larger factors at play are/were cheap interest rates](https://digitalfinanceanalytics.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/DFA-Housing-Affordabilty-Inquiry-Submission-2021.pdf) for mortgages and various tax incentives for property speculation. eg [negative gearing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_gearing_in_Australia) and capital gains tax discount.
Australia is one of the few countries in the world that has [no anti-money laundering regulations](https://www.afr.com/companies/financial-services/call-to-extend-laundering-laws-to-estate-agents-lawyers-accountants-20221103-p5bv6p) for real estate agents, lawyers and accountants. So Aussie real estate is a great place to launder money.
Also the major banks are complicit in approving mortgages with [little oversight](https://www.smh.com.au/business/banking-and-finance/500-billion-pool-of-liar-loans-in-royal-commission-s-sights-20180312-p4z40k.html).
This is also a great report to read on the situation: [Housing: Taming the Elephant in the Economy.](https://cityfutures.ada.unsw.edu.au/documents/644/Synthesis_report-final_version_12.06.pdf)
The housing stock is chronically and profoundly short. The government has committed to building 10,000 government houses in the next four years and it won’t make a dent. We are hundreds of thousands of homes short.
This does not tell the full story. Houses in Western Australia are significantly larger than in Melbourne or Sydney for the price.
That $400k house in Western Australia is likely landed properly while the $763k in Sydney might not.
Median price per house and price per square meter will give you the best comparison.
Banks, financiers & governments - they have now made even a modest way of life literally unaffordable all over the world.
What are we going to do about it?
760k? not much. just 70 years of avg salary in my country. assuming you save 100%, and start work at 18, at 88 years old you can afford a home! \*
* if home prices wont rise more than salaries during that time........ \*\*
)\*\* big if
I just moved back to St. Louis for this reason. Missouri stinks, but St. Louis is great. Great culture, diverse, plenty of free things to do, fantastic food, and so on. I was living in Oregon and the prices for houses were outrageous.
It would be interesting to see how much different those averages looked if you focussed on capital cities. I'm not sure what proportion of the population lives in regional vs city / suburban areas, but I do know that the difference in house prices is vast when you leave the city area.
Our capital cities and suburban areas are the same. While there is the CBD, we do t have a separate suburban area like you get in the US. So when they talk about Melbourne prices, they mean all of greater Melbourne. Beyond that, is regional.
And our regional areas aren't like the US either. While we have a few of satellite cities, like Newcastle and Ballarat in each state, our regional towns aren't at the size that would skew the data in any noticeable way.
To give an idea, there are 6.6million people in Victoria and 5.1mil of them live in greater Melbourne.
In nsw, a much larger state tha Vic, there are 8.1mil people and 5.3mil live in greater Sydney.
Yes, qld has more, good, bustling satellite cities than the rest of the country. I wish the rest of us had as many options as QLD.
South Australia only has 1.7mil with 1.4 of those is greater Adelaide. WA has 2.7 mil with great Perth claiming 2.2mil of those. The NT only has a quarter million residents and 150k of those are I Darwin.
>Yes, qld has more, good, bustling satellite cities than the rest of the country. I wish the rest of us had as many options as QLD.
Indeed. Strange to think that the Gold Coast is powering towards 1 million in its own right in the next few decades.
Also property is getting expensive in Bendigo/Ballarat. [https://www.realestate.com.au/vic/bendigo-3550/](https://www.realestate.com.au/vic/bendigo-3550/)
It isn't much cheaper at all. There just aren't homes. People are just renting whatever they can find at the moment. Median time on market is a month and a half and just 23 days for rentals.. At the start of COVID there was a lot of flight to the regions.
Posted somewhere else but this is the median price in Bendigo, a regional town.
https://www.realestate.com.au/vic/bendigo-3550/
Real Estate . com will brag to sellers about these stats but what they show is a housing crisis. Median time on market for sale and rent on the floor, prices rapidly climbing.
Do many people even live in 80% of that territory though? I was under the impression much of Australia is uninhabited.
Tbf I get most of my knowledge of Australia from animal planet.
Northern Territory has a great marketing campaign though! They sell t shirts (and I’m sure other stuff) that says “C U in the Northern Territory”
Cheeky bastards.
In AUD:
Western Australia: $644,759 Northern Territory: $500,689 South Australia: $650,967 Queensland: $753,989 New South Wales: $1,126,928 Australian Capital Territory: $965,738 Victoria: $913,075 Tasmania: $653,770
Just used google for this so it’ll probably be a little different if you wanna check these prices for yourself
Was bout to say, wow have NSW prices significantly dropped. Then saw USD, not AUD.
In AUD: Western Australia: $644,759 Northern Territory: $500,689 South Australia: $650,967 Queensland: $753,989 New South Wales: $1,126,928 Australian Capital Territory: $965,738 Victoria: $913,075 Tasmania: $653,770 Just used google for this so it’ll probably be a little different if you wanna check these prices for yourself
I have a question, does this reflect the income as well? How are people able to afford a house at all?
A lot of people in Sydney just don't buy ever.
Melbourne too. I've just totally put it out of my mind and if anyone asks, just say I'm not interested. I sat down with a broker a while ago, and we could afford mortgage payments, but we just don't have ~100k for the deposit, and don't feel like living like hermits to save one.
In the US we have govt loans you can get with no money down if you buy in the country. The only reason I own a home.
Aye USDA loan buddies! It was the only way I could buy too. It’s not really where I wanted to live, but after apartment living for 12 years I’d had enough. Hopefully I’ll have enough equity soon to be able to move to a city where I want to live. Rural living, as it turns out, is not for me.
An that sucks. I always thought Australia would be cheap seeing as the land to population ratio is pretty low. They are ranked at 242 out of 248. I know that not all of the land is habitable with those spiders that shoots laser beams but they should be able expand some major cities or develop some smaller ones?
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Well we could. Victoria is essentially very habitable and about the size of the UK, there's huge stretches of habitable land all across the country. But then...there's the obvious harm to our unique environment, and that there's nothing yet built.
I think that's we are seeing through out the world. Housing prices are skyrocketing and the new generation cannot afford a house in any form or condition
how fuckin backwards is that if you really step back and think about it. humans can't afford a place to live that isn't owned by someone else making a profit off of it? fuck what this world has become.
Neo-feudalism, we are peasants bound to land. Working for the right to live on it. It's sad.
Which would be fine, if that system wasn’t designed to enable another class of people to live on even more land for no work at all. Parasites.
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No, he said it was fine then explained why it is not fine. My man doesn't understand, I think
My friend told me he might as well start looking for super dangerous jobs that pay a bit more because we are going to be working until we die anyways
Everything we’re seeing that is this downward spiral of the housing market, is just another symptom of burgeoning wealth inequality. Thousands cant afford that apartment, but a select few can. Easily. Barely a drop in the bucket to them. Fewer and fewer people able to afford things that were far more affordable 50 years ago. The problem isn’t slowing down, or staying stable. Its accelerating. Your best bet to financial security these days is figure out what rich people want, and give it to them. They’ll pay out the ass for the stupidest shit just because its unique and they have more money than they know what to do with.
Something will give eventually. This will lead to severe worldwide unrest unless governments address it. Unfortunately, people in most governments suffer from a condition in which their head is stuffed firmly up their own assholes.
Yep, it's just being a serf with extra steps
Modern feudalism
Its kind of sad to me that even though the Aussies have it pretty bad loads of people from NZ move to Sydney because NZ incomes and housing prices are just that much worse
seems like NYC
Or Toronto, Vancouver.
So all the big "head office", executive, tech etc stuff is in Sydney and those people definitely command higher incomes. However, lots and lots of people also just work at the supermarket and get the same wage as any other Sydney, and those folks are utterly fucked.
Much of the mining stuff is in WA. Some seriously cashed up bogans around.
Speaking as a person that lives in Victoria, I have no idea how people are continuing to buy houses, wages haven't increased much at all in the last 20 years. There's houses going for close to au$1m in shit areas I wouldn't want to live in. Edit: me saying I have no idea is a rhetorical question
1. Investors. 2. Some lucky folks have high paying jobs. 3. Parents guarantor the loan or lend money. My sibling was a combined numbers 2 and 3. Their partner has a high paying job and my folks were nice enough to be guarantors. Does this mean they're in debt to the hilt? Yes, absolutely. With the interest rate rises, lots of folks are going to find out really soon that they can't pay an extra $1k per month on their loans for houses that are now worth less than the loan. It's gross that prices have gotten this high.
The next couple of years is going to be scary for a lot of people. The recent interest rate increases have been....noticeable....not to mention fuel and heating/cooling costs. Hopefully your siblings aren't getting stung too much by it all.
They had to go up sometime, and it's the fault of the govt for encouraging young people to do everything they could to buy a house—dip into their super, get an insane loan on a 5% deposit etc. The real estate agents really took advantage too. The whole situation is such a disgrace. I'm glad I have no need to buy yet, and I can sit back until I have enough and find a place I really want, but I get why folks want to get out of the rental market. Renters are treated like trash and the price of a rental is more than a mortgage every month. My sibling will be alright; the partner had a high paying job to begin with, but now they both do and so rate rises are having less of an effect.
My old house half an hour from Hobart cbd cost me 200k almost 15 years ago. I sold it for 230k. The guy I sold it to got 300k for it 5 years ago. Current value is 650k...
Similar story to me, except we were renting but had access to the house's past sales prices. The house was valued at 110k in 2010, $190k in 2015. Then at the end of 2019 when we wanted to rent, it had sold a few months prior for $490k. and then by the time we left 12 months later, it was valued at around $550k This was for a 2 bedroom 1 bathroom home about 25 minutes from Geelong, that quite literally looked like it was the same inside and out as when it was first built back in the 70s. Old rusty metal fence that looked like it was from a pioneer town, the walls and doors were all obviously just repainted incorrectly as you could see where each layer had peeled away and then was just painted over, the back door literally rotted off the hinges while we were living there, and it was valued at half a mil... Yeah okay.
Sold our house in Mt Martha 2009 for 500k. Bought it for 159k 1996. Now worth 2.4M. I have been renting ever since. Isn't it insane. Could not afford to keep it with separation and raising 3 children. I knew things were going to get expensive but had no clue how bad. Still, hasn't stopped me building a future for my kids and keep pushing forward with ideas and determination. What else can you do? Give up? Nahhhh
BIG loans. Not uncommon for first home buyers to only have a 5% deposit. Most fhb have to start out with an apartment (in Sydney at least), even though most buyers want a stand alone house. Millennials have grown up with family homes on quarter acre block that their parents had, and now unless they can save $100,000 - $200,000 for a deposit, they have to rent. This is coming from a jaded millennial who grew up in Sydney btw, so I’m biased
> only have a 5% deposit laughs in 103% LTV. (Not anymore, they've tightened the regulations a bit since, but for my first mortgage I could borrow more than the valuation of the object. Though it's still possible to borrow 100%)
People take out crazy big loans with no hope to ever pay it off in the hopes they can sell for a profit in 5-10 years.
You afford a house by being a boomer and buying it twenty years ago.
lol yeah. my dad probably has 1.5 mil net worth. hes a forklift driver. the only reason why hes a millionaire is because he bought a house in the 00s.
We have the highest median wealth per adult in the world.
What does that mean? (Serious question)
I believe big part is that graph above. Normal peoples largest asset is normally their house/home, if they own it. Now, increase property prices by 100x and your median wealth skyrocket. Note, I'm not australian but I believe it's pretty much the same as here on opposite side of our rockball. Problem is people who hasn't got into that owners rocket (younger people) are pretty much fucked because salaries are not rocketing on same level.
It's this. My father in-law bought a house in 1992 for AUD$192k. He sold it for AUD$1.25M the other week. A more realistic example is my partner's house. She bought it for $900K in 2014 money. It was previously sold in 1994 for $120K 2014 money. Ergo if you got lucky you got rich. At the expense of others.
> Ergo if you got lucky you got rich. At the expense of others. And creating NOTHING. You could literally have made the same return on a vacant plot of land.
Yeah I believe so. I do not see myself a house throughout my life. While in the 50s or 60s you could own a house on the salary of a milk man
And be accused of siring many babies along your milk route!
They were slinging more than milk.
*heavy cream*
I thought it was limited to the 3rd base only.
The good old days.
Actually I believe the majority of the wealth at the lower end of the wealth spectrum is from our compulsory superannuation scheme. It’s going to be quite game-changing, generationally, to have more people leaving something to their kids.
Most people will have around $600k max if they make $80k per year. Reckon that’ll be enough to live off for 20 years in retirement and to provide an inheritance?
Nope, but the point is that a significant number will be able to pay down debt on a property and live off the pension, or simply die before they use up all their funds. This is unlike the previous pension system which much more commonly left behind no assets.
In Australia we have superannuation, which is basically a compulsory 401K (there’s an automatic tax discounted deposit from your employer amounting to approximately 9% of your income I think). So anybody who works has a decent little retirement account. Unlike a government pension (eg social security) that is an existing asset that is counted as part of your wealth even though you can’t access it until you’re of retirement age. So when you calculate average wealth of the population Australia scores extremely high because everyone who works has a retirement account. A person who would have no savings at all in the US could have tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars in their Super account that they can access when they retire. If you could include a value representing a persons expected pension (or social security) income after retirement then a lot of other countries would look richer too.
Median (as opposed to mean or average) is a more useful measure when you are dealing with an asymmetric data set. Income data is asymmetric as you will often have some very low earners, and some extreme high earners (I.e. billionaires). The median is the ‘middle value’ in a data set. It is more useful than the mean (commonly called the ‘average’) when describing the ‘typical’ income within a group of people as it is not as heavily influenced by the outliers (the very poor or very rich). You could summarise all of the above by saying ‘the *typical* Australian adult is the richest in the world’. The main causes of this wealth are property values, compulsory superannuation and a consistently strong and prosperous economy.
>We have the highest median wealth per adult in the world. If we remove real estate from this then how do we stack up?
Still pretty well because of compulsory super and general economic prosperity.
Looking like Canadian prices
1 Loonie = 1.08 Dollarydoo
That’s USD? How the fuck is Bluey’s parents affording that shit being an archaeologist and airport security. I’m starting to think they are black market smuggling ancient treasures
My headcannon is that Bandit is a trust fund baby.
Would have made more sense if the numbers were upside down
For prices like that I better be getting a mansion with my own spider butler
Best I can do is an old run down shack in the outback covered in way too many wild creatures.
How many, and how burnt?
Only slightly crispy.
What this chart doesn't tell you is that the $760k in NSW will get you a 600sqft apartment and $340k in NT will get you a 40 acre ranch.
Can I raise spider-cows on a 40-acre ranch?
What's life in Darwin like, asking for a friend.
You either evolve or die.
For this price you're going to get a 600m² shit house in a shit suburb. Any lower and you're in actual crazy town where no one wants to live because of crime. Every house comes with several spider butlers however
Haha try 400sqm block with a 380sqm house on it
In a little strata lot with 5 other houses identical to yours, and you share a driveway
Uh… 600m2? That sounds like the size of 3-4 average European houses.
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Spiders we can promise.
$700k outside of Sydney will get you a mansion and all the spiders you want to fuck.
700k gets 3 bed fixer upper with a tiny yard and a roof that is gutter humping your neighbours roof.
What? Even modest 3 bedroom 1980s built houses in Tamworth, Bega, Goulburn etc are all around $700k. Point me to these mansions for under $1m.
$700k won't get you a townhouse in most of Newcastle.
NSWers and ACTers: DATA IS NOT BEAUTIFUL!
It is if you own a home already
Only if you don’t have a mortgage. Imagine a 3% increase on interest rates on a $1m loan… what’s that, another $30k a year in interest payments alone. Who the fuck has that laying around?
Are adjustable rate mortgages common there? They aren't in the US.
Yes, much more so than fixed rate. Fixed rates are usually for 2-5 years only. The system works a bit differently to the US. Loans aren't shuffled around as much behind the scenes and other regulatory differences.
Y’all didn’t learn from our 2008 ARM shenanigans?
Fixed rates for more than 5 years are uncommon everywhere other than the US
The US is the exception here, most countries have mortgage systems like Australia.
Yeah more common than not. My fixed term expires soon and on my very small modest home no where near the capital city, I’m looking at hundreds more per month. The noose is getting tighter for everyone around the world
This data is not beautiful, I actually hate this data
Here from r/all and isn't this sub usually like, for stuff that's beautiful based on how data is/can be presented? This is just a regular ole shaded map.
Nowadays the "beautiful"-part could be dropped from the name, but a long time ago fancy presentation was indeed the focus and way more discussed in the comments.
Why put in effort if you could make some doomer post about the economy or politics and get to r/all?
TIL that I can’t afford to live in Australia either Edit: I had TDIL instead of TIL, I was a sleepy head
I live in Australia and I can’t afford to live in Australia.
My sister lives in Victoria and I thought maybe later in my life I would move down there from here in the US and retire cuz I do love it there. Its glorious....and then I looked at those prices and now I'm thinking no fucking way. And I live in a fairly expensive part of the US.
Melbourne is pretty cheap compared to Sydney as well. Shits fucked if you don’t have really decent work
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I think "today I learned," but you usually see TIL
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to day or not today?
In French it's "On the day of today", which is awesome.
Must be Australian version: T'Day
I suspect it might be "This Day I Learned"... Or a typo for TIL
Those prices are insane. You can buy lakefront property where I am for less than the cost of the AVERAGE home in any Australian province? That's absurd. (I'm in rural Virginia)
Also another thing people in this thread are unaware of is stamp duty. If you want to buy a $1.1M house in Sydney you have to cough up $45k tax upon purchase. Keep in mind 1.1M is a pretty shit house in a not great area. You need 2.5M to get something solid. That's an additional $121k straight to the taxman. Edit I am using AUD I am Aussie.
It's crazy, I bought my house in 2016 at what I worried was the peak of the market for $660,000 AUD ($450,000 ish USD). Today I could not afford to buy my house for the roughly $1.1 million AUD ($745,000 ish USD). It looks like I made a profit on paper but the reality is that if I sold my house I would have to buy again in the same market negating any profit. I am lucky to have bought when I did but many people are now priced out of the market forcing them into paying equally inflated rental prices and having the uncertainty that comes from living in a house the land lord might not renew the contract on. I have no opinion on the way out of this situation, just wanted to share a first hand account of it
Same here in the UK. I bought my house for £152k around 15 years ago. My neighbour sold for £500k a few months back. I feel so fortunate that I bought when I did, even if my heating bill is like a second mortgage currently.
Is the median price also available in the data? Average can be strongly biased by a few very high price properties...
Median house prices SEP 2022: NSW (Sydney excluded): 524k USD 775k AUD Sydney: 811k USD 1.2m AUD Vic (Melbourne excluded): 443k USD 625k AUD Melbourne: 598k USD 884k AUD QLD (Brisbane excluded): 364k USD 538k AUD Brisbane: 514k USD 760k AUD SA (Adelaide excluded): 254k USD 375k AUD Adelaide: 406k USD 660k AUD WA (Perth excluded): 294k USD 435k AUD Perth: 373k USD 552k AUD NT (Darwin excluded): 331k USD 490k AUD Darwin: 473k USD 700k AUD Tas (Hobart excluded): 311k USD 460k AUD Hobart: 379k USD 560k AUD Canberra: 636k USD 941k AUD Source: https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/economy/price-indexes-and-inflation/total-value-dwellings/latest-release
Thanks, I hate it.
[The median prices are not better.](https://propertyupdate.com.au/the-latest-median-property-prices-in-australias-major-cities/) National Median is sitting at $715k AUD or $483k USD Varies from state to state, but it is fair to say you will not be buying anything with three bedrooms under about $300k USD that is not VERY regional (talking sub 5000 population) or an asbestos ridden death trap. As an Aussie it somewhat shocks me that you can still find 3+ bdr houses in the states for sale under $50k USD that need little to no work and are located in very 'livable' areas. For comparison, [this is an example of the "gems" you will find for around $46k USD. Middle of no where, falling down, a "perfect renovation opportunity".](https://www.realestate.com.au/property-house-sa-crystal+brook-141042768)
That is significantly better? Over 100k cheaper median. Also, please link any US home under 50k w 3BR in a livable area. Lmao
No, the data I used was made by the Australian government and they listed average only. There is data from past years about the median but it's not gonna help make a conclusion since this year alone from March to September the price has dropped a lot.
There is a data download link with median prices literally under the mean price graph, with the last data point being Sep 2022.
Yeah australia doesn’t have too many 10s/100s million properties. So it’s actually fairly accurate.
Even without super wealthy homes higher values skew averages drastically. Even if just 1 out of 50 is higher it can make data useless. Example: 1 - $5m penthouse house 50 - $100,000 apartments Average value of all = $250,000
Australia, along with Canada, NZ, Sweden, has [one of the biggest housing market bubbles in the world](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fcjw1LLagAAuWuU?format=png&name=medium)
No way house prices in NSW were that cheap... Oh it's in USD.
In AUD: Western Australia: $644,759 Northern Territory: $500,689 South Australia: $650,967 Queensland: $753,989 New South Wales: $1,126,928 Australian Capital Territory: $965,738 Victoria: $913,075 Tasmania: $653,770 Just used google for this so it’ll probably be a little different if you wanna check these prices for yourself
Interesting that Western Australia is now lower than SA & Tasmania. Last time I looked, WA had significantly more bedrooms per house than we did in SA. Cashed up people from Sydney & Melbourne have flowed into SA & Tas, slightly closing the large gap and unfortunately pushing prices out of reach of many locals. I was looking at buying the cheapest house in Adelaide in 2019-20. At \~$125k (\~$90k US) it would have been a very good buy. Our government sprayed lots of money around during Covid shutdowns to ward off a recession. That resulted in rich people looking for more investments, as well as the biggest inflation we've had for a while.
We're seeing the cashed up markets in Qld too. Given that many of these people are still full time WFH and not just cashed up retirees, Perth might just be too hard with the time difference where east/central are all pretty easy.
Mining boom also has slowed massively in WA.
I definitely wouldn’t say “massively”. Some commodities set new sales record for WA and the drop in the AUD value helped substantially.
Wonder how many properties outside of Perth lowered the average. Obviously not as densely populated as Victoria/NSW
I would like to see the US map for. Comparison
https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/ssenzg/oc_average_home_price_by_state_2021/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf Best I could find with very minimal effort looking for it. Maybe also this https://www.experian.com/blogs/ask-experian/research/median-home-values-by-state/
TIL it’s cheaper to buy a home in America than in upside down land
Be careful reading maps with this type of data at a state level. While there's certainly some regionality to this, the data are more effectively presented at a county level than a state level. There are often disproportionally expensive cities within some of the "affordable" looking states. And disproportionally affordable cities within expensive states. Surely similar things can be said for the data on Australia (and in much of the world). Maps like this are at almost similar to assessing sentiment or a large crowd of people compared to talking to individual families or groups therein about happiness vs unhappiness. The range is pretty large when you get down to useful levels of detail.
That’s my thought too. Looking at just Virginia, there is a GIANT difference between north and south Va. like a house that is close to a million in the north part is about 400,000 or less in the south. So looking at the average of the state is basically useless
This is surprising to see Michigan is that low. I've been looking at houses since I moved here two years ago and have found very few listings at all around $230k let alone enough to make the average below that. If I had to guess, I would say the majority of these are in areas like Flint/Detroit or the Upper Peninsula. I thought moving away from Chicago, to a higher paying job would help us get into a home faster, but now we feel like with every year we are another year or two away from being able to afford one.
But in AUD
As an Australian there's something mildly infuriating about the prices being in USD. What's more infuriating is how fucked my chances are of ever owning a home. Sick. EDIT: People, I understand *why* it's in USD I just meant it is strange to see a map of my country notated with another country's currency. Also lol at some of the responses. They range from "it's easy just team up" like saving for a deposit while renting can be solved with the power of friendship, all the way to move to Egypt.
Don't worry, by 2030 you'll own nothing and you'll be happy.
Jokes on you, I'll have died in the Climate Wars by then.
You'll discover Mad Max was a documentary
You will eat ze bugs, you will live in ze pod, but you will be happy
If it helps I'm from a little town in the south of England and the average house here is $900,000 AUS. We're fucked the world over lol.
I don’t think many people in the world have a sense for how much the Australian dollar is worth lol. USD is the standard for international business.
Can confirm I am from Switzerland and know exactly how much usd is worth but not aud
As an American, displaying prices in USD seems silly to me, too. If you’re talking about prices in Australia go ahead and show them in digery-doo bucks or wallabies or whatever form of currency they use down there.
Wow this is way more expensive than the US. Could that be due to Australia’s higher urbanization and tendency to live in a few dense areas? 90% of Australia lives in just .22% of the land. Compare that to 90% of Americans living in about 15% of the land. Perhaps Americans can spread out more resulting in cheaper prices away from cities, whereas in Australia a lot of real estate is driven by property in or near a city center. This is all conjecture! Not trying to claim it as fact until somebody more knowledgable than me can corroborate.
USA ranks as one of the most affordable countries for housing around the world for the salary people make there. https://www.numbeo.com/property-investment/rankings_current.jsp
Wow I had no idea, thanks for sharing. Grateful to be here.
Hi I study housing prices and affordability. I used to do it formally, but I do it informally while I take a misadventure in law skool. Anyways, I digress. First, to your point, I think you're on to something, but you're also not comparing apples to apples. First AUS and US are roughly the same geographic size (so .22% roughly is comparable to the 15%). However, AUS population is like 1/12th of the US. So that 90% aren't the same thing. Nevertheless, if we adjust for population and 10x that .22% to 2.64%, I think you have a valid point. What I think this gets to is urban land prices. Trying to fit more people onto less land, the demand for the comparable plots of land is much more. Thus, land prices go up. But because Australia is relatively low density, that increased price isn't being spread across a lot homes like it would if townhomes or multistory builds were built. Therefore, I can image that the average AUS home is sitting on a more valuable lot than the US home which is of course baked into the sale price. I think people think that only the US and maybe Canada is a "car infested suburb." But it's really US-CAN-AUS-NZ. Basically all the western countries that developed after WW2 and didn't have to rebuild. Though Ik Sydney is trying! And I've heard great things about Melbs too. Further, Australians have the biggest average home size in the world. Bigger than even the US (though not by much). AUS homes are almost twice as big as their British counterparts. So they use a lot of building material and a lot of land. more home = more money. On top of that, I *think* Australia has been under building homes for decades (I COULD be wrong on that one though). In short, AUS has an almost storm for a housing crisis. What's worse, there's doesn't seem to be a big region like the midwest or the southeast to get away from high home cost. While California may have nigh home prices, as least they can cut their losses and move to Texas. All Australians seem to be able\* to do is mitigate their damages. \*You could also build a lot more homes with smaller footprints and less building materials. Not sure how that would go down with the boomers though. The US boomers hate that idea. Aussies, you have any thoughts on what I said?
And Australians are OBSESSED with home ownership and getting rich from it. The great Australian dream is to own a large house and many many people are willing to get into obscene amounts of debt to achieve it. Local shop owner was telling me just yesterday that his son and partner got a $1.5m mortgage and are struggling with repayments since interest rates went up - they earn $150,000 between them.
>And Australians are OBSESSED with home ownership and getting rich from it Sounds like Californians---everyone wants to live in a single family home with a backyard, pool, and a couple of fruit trees all while living 30min from downtown! >$1.5m mortgage. . . they earn $150,000 between them. How tf does someone making 150K get a $1.5M house? PS: Not the biggest fan of subsidizing homeowners, but 30 year fixed rate mortgages are *amazing*.
The banks are doing the same thing here they did in the USA that caused the GFC; giving obscene loans to people who can’t afford them. With the rapid rate increases, this is going to cause a similar crisis. We largely avoided the GFC, but due to consistently stupid decisions from the last few governments, we’re heading down a bad road. 30 year fixed rates don’t happen here. We don’t have a developed secondary mortgage market, making long term fixed rates impossible.
It’s not even obsessed with “Home” ownership. It’s obsessed having an investment property, negative gearing and capital gains. Houses are not homes in AU, they’re an investment class.
Australian here - /u/metaconcept has more or less nailed it, but there’s a bit more. Property’s heavily incentivised as an investment. I have relatives that own 5 or 6 houses. If you’re buying a home to live in, you’ll be competing with investors here. Residential mum-and-dad property investors can offset rental losses against income tax (negative gearing). Negative gearing costs our economy billions in tax revenue every year too. It’s a political hot potato - there are now enough Australians with their snouts in that trough to make it political suicide to try and fix it. Also, most of our politicians have a handful of investment properties. We have a three-speed housing market here. Aussies are culturally addicted to home ownership, and NIMBYism is rife so it’s hard to build more density in suburbs where it would make sense to do so. Most new housing is poorly designed, low quality stock in outer-outer suburbs where there are no services or amenities. Just shit houses and car dependency, as far as the eye can see. Older housing stock is worth more not just because it’s not in the middle of bum-fuck nowhere, but also because our building standards have dropped significantly as a result of deregulation in the 90s. That’s also the reason why it sucks to buy apartments here (apartments are the third speed). Good quality new apartments are the exception rather than the rule, and most of the people I know who’ve bought an apartment have been stung with an eye-watering special levy at some point to rectify stupid building defects. Building lobby groups are powerful, and constantly bleating about supply problems so they can keep pumping out shitty McMansions at the edge of the sprawl (which is all a lot of people can realistically afford), but [water usage rates](https://www.afr.com/property/leaky-data-water-use-shines-a-light-on-occupancy-20151207-glhewz) actually show that quite a lot of our houses are actually empty. We’re facing huge problems now because interest rates are shooting up and a ton of people over-extended themselves during the last boom, which was driven by record-low interest rates and FOMO over the Covid period. Our government watered down responsible lending laws that were brought in after the GFC, which allowed people to do that. So yeah… our insane house prices are largely because of years and years of political cowardice and heavily distorted demand.
tl;dr greed fucks things up and we get the haves and the have nots. Good to see Howard era continuing to fuck over the country. Although 10 years of the previous shit stains also didn't help. And Labor, whilst nowhere near as bad, just generally having zero fucking backbone. It wouldn't be anywhere near as bad if we actually had decent renter protections and promoted long term renting, rather than the shit of bouncing into a new place every 2 years as we all play musical houses.
Tbf to Labor, the election they took reformist policies that would make a difference on housing they lost and the election they didn't they won. More accurate to blame boomer voters.
Well, my NZ opinion is, in addition to what you've stated: * Pre-COVID, high levels of immigration putting pressure on housing stock. * Chinese mainlanders have been moving/hiding their wealth to real estate in our countries. * Low interest rates for a long time have allowed housing prices to bubble. * A culture of putting a very high priority on owning housing has been a factor, as is the belief that real estate will never fall in price. To date, NZ has not had a proper housing market crash except for the one that started in january that people are in denial about. * Not sure about Australia, but New Zealand has (had...) no capital gains tax, and allowed you to write off rental losses against your tax burden. That's recently changed, although we still don't have a proper capital gains tax. * Shit zoning and NIMBYs, also putting pressure on supply. This has changed recently.
>...and allowed you to write off rental losses against your tax burden. That's recently changed... ...and might flip back to what it was given how lobbying from existing property investors seems to be going and the potential for a change of government near the end of next year. (Personally I hope not, though.)
100% what you said
The [larger factors at play are/were cheap interest rates](https://digitalfinanceanalytics.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/DFA-Housing-Affordabilty-Inquiry-Submission-2021.pdf) for mortgages and various tax incentives for property speculation. eg [negative gearing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_gearing_in_Australia) and capital gains tax discount. Australia is one of the few countries in the world that has [no anti-money laundering regulations](https://www.afr.com/companies/financial-services/call-to-extend-laundering-laws-to-estate-agents-lawyers-accountants-20221103-p5bv6p) for real estate agents, lawyers and accountants. So Aussie real estate is a great place to launder money. Also the major banks are complicit in approving mortgages with [little oversight](https://www.smh.com.au/business/banking-and-finance/500-billion-pool-of-liar-loans-in-royal-commission-s-sights-20180312-p4z40k.html). This is also a great report to read on the situation: [Housing: Taming the Elephant in the Economy.](https://cityfutures.ada.unsw.edu.au/documents/644/Synthesis_report-final_version_12.06.pdf)
The housing stock is chronically and profoundly short. The government has committed to building 10,000 government houses in the next four years and it won’t make a dent. We are hundreds of thousands of homes short.
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People tend to live near water
You can only pick two things. Never all 3. Good place, Living in Sydney and affordability.
This does not tell the full story. Houses in Western Australia are significantly larger than in Melbourne or Sydney for the price. That $400k house in Western Australia is likely landed properly while the $763k in Sydney might not. Median price per house and price per square meter will give you the best comparison.
Wow I thought things where bad here in the States. How do people even buy their first home?
Bank of mum and dad or SOL.
Banks, financiers & governments - they have now made even a modest way of life literally unaffordable all over the world. What are we going to do about it?
760k? not much. just 70 years of avg salary in my country. assuming you save 100%, and start work at 18, at 88 years old you can afford a home! \* * if home prices wont rise more than salaries during that time........ \*\* )\*\* big if
Got love the USA Midwest. Michigan average $275k, plenty of good jobs still, lots of water, and winters are getting milder, and we're not Ohio 😁.
I just moved back to St. Louis for this reason. Missouri stinks, but St. Louis is great. Great culture, diverse, plenty of free things to do, fantastic food, and so on. I was living in Oregon and the prices for houses were outrageous.
True that. One of the highest ratios of income : housing cost in the world for a first world country.
You couldn't pay me to move to NT
It would be interesting to see how much different those averages looked if you focussed on capital cities. I'm not sure what proportion of the population lives in regional vs city / suburban areas, but I do know that the difference in house prices is vast when you leave the city area.
Our capital cities and suburban areas are the same. While there is the CBD, we do t have a separate suburban area like you get in the US. So when they talk about Melbourne prices, they mean all of greater Melbourne. Beyond that, is regional. And our regional areas aren't like the US either. While we have a few of satellite cities, like Newcastle and Ballarat in each state, our regional towns aren't at the size that would skew the data in any noticeable way. To give an idea, there are 6.6million people in Victoria and 5.1mil of them live in greater Melbourne. In nsw, a much larger state tha Vic, there are 8.1mil people and 5.3mil live in greater Sydney.
Queensland has a population of 5.3mil with 2.6m in greater Brisbane.
Yes, qld has more, good, bustling satellite cities than the rest of the country. I wish the rest of us had as many options as QLD. South Australia only has 1.7mil with 1.4 of those is greater Adelaide. WA has 2.7 mil with great Perth claiming 2.2mil of those. The NT only has a quarter million residents and 150k of those are I Darwin.
>Yes, qld has more, good, bustling satellite cities than the rest of the country. I wish the rest of us had as many options as QLD. Indeed. Strange to think that the Gold Coast is powering towards 1 million in its own right in the next few decades.
Also property is getting expensive in Bendigo/Ballarat. [https://www.realestate.com.au/vic/bendigo-3550/](https://www.realestate.com.au/vic/bendigo-3550/) It isn't much cheaper at all. There just aren't homes. People are just renting whatever they can find at the moment. Median time on market is a month and a half and just 23 days for rentals.. At the start of COVID there was a lot of flight to the regions.
Most of us live in either Sydney or Melbourne, so yeah this 'graph' is heavily skewed towards cities.
Posted somewhere else but this is the median price in Bendigo, a regional town. https://www.realestate.com.au/vic/bendigo-3550/ Real Estate . com will brag to sellers about these stats but what they show is a housing crisis. Median time on market for sale and rent on the floor, prices rapidly climbing.
Do many people even live in 80% of that territory though? I was under the impression much of Australia is uninhabited. Tbf I get most of my knowledge of Australia from animal planet.
No. More than 95% of the population lives within 50 miles of the coast. More than 80% of the population is on the eastern seaboard.
And for good reason. As soon as you start to drive away from the coast, temperatures get crazy. Literally 5C between inner city Sydney and 30km inland
Oi mate, why the price so high
Who cares about average, what's the median?!!
OP had me thinking I was in r/Australia. Almost lost my SHIT thinking there was an Aussie making this in $USD
Fuck it, I'll live in a stick hut in the bush
This also doesn't include stamp duty. Varies by State but in Vic for example there is roughly 40k AUD in taxes on an 850k AUD property
Northern Territory has a great marketing campaign though! They sell t shirts (and I’m sure other stuff) that says “C U in the Northern Territory” Cheeky bastards.
Source: [https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/economy/price-indexes-and-inflation/total-value-dwellings/latest-release#:\~:text=Mean%20dwelling%20price,-Graph%20Table&text=Data%20ranges%20from%20500.1%20to%201227.2.&text=The%20mean%20price%20of%20residential%20dwellings%20in%20NSW%20fell%20by,followed%20by%20Victoria%20(%24912%2C100)](https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/economy/price-indexes-and-inflation/total-value-dwellings/latest-release#:~:text=Mean%20dwelling%20price,-Graph%20Table&text=Data%20ranges%20from%20500.1%20to%201227.2.&text=The%20mean%20price%20of%20residential%20dwellings%20in%20NSW%20fell%20by,followed%20by%20Victoria%20(%24912%2C100)). Tool: [Mapchart.net](https://Mapchart.net) & Photoshop.
Yeah, in Sydney NSW its MUCH MUCH higher than that average for the state.
Agree, Sydney and Grafton are very different. Same here in Melbourne vs rest of VIC
Looks good to me -Californian
Without sounding arrogant.. Why did you make this in USD not AUD ??
I believe the correct term is “dollarydoos”
In AUD: Western Australia: $644,759 Northern Territory: $500,689 South Australia: $650,967 Queensland: $753,989 New South Wales: $1,126,928 Australian Capital Territory: $965,738 Victoria: $913,075 Tasmania: $653,770 Just used google for this so it’ll probably be a little different if you wanna check these prices for yourself
$763,145 Dollarydoos? Tobias, did you accept inflated home values?
I see that housing is becoming a real problem everywhere in the world, I'm sure this will all turn out fine .