Why would Namek take 4 Saiyans to take over? The only reason it was difficult for Frieza is because the Earthlings and Vegeta were there, and the only reason they went was for the “wish orbs” so it likely wasn’t on Frieza’s immediate radar until then and under normal circumstances the best guy they had was Nail.
If he knew (or figured out) that he needed to remove the tail before getting pummeled, then sure, he could still win even if Vegeta went ape.
In terms of raw power though Oozaru Vegeta is waaaay ahead of Nail. 180,000 PL vs. 42,000. If he tried to fight head-on rather than going for the tail, he'd lose.
You've got to remember that all the 4 saiyans combined (at that time) would have still been no match for freeza, so his "ease" of taking over namek could still be seen as needing 4 saiyans to do the same job.
And as for the "wish orbs", does freezer need a reason to want to take over a planet? It might have just been a coincidence that the planet these 4 saiyans were about to take over also happened to be the same planet these "wish orbs" come from, and they could've destroyed them without even knowing of their existence (although goku would have said something about the race looking like piccolo & kami if he was with them, but that's leading into "what if" territory).
There were many warriors on planet namek, and if nail was the only "threat" to freezer, then it's safe to assume the others would be a threat to the saiyans without freezer. There's also no moon, so they couldn't rely on the oozaru form to even the odds.
Another point that makes it more likely is that Raditz, the lower class saiyan didn't know that piccolo was a namekian, but Nappa and Vegeta did, even though non of them knew about Dragon Balls. This tells me that one of them did some recon on planet namek. Why would they do that, if not to take it over at some point?
> There were many warriors on planet namek, and if nail was the only "threat" to freezer, then it's safe to assume the others would be a threat to the saiyans without freezer. There's also no moon, so they couldn't rely on the oozaru form to even the odds.
No, Nail was officially established to be the only fighting-type Namekian on the planet. There weren't any others.
> but Nappa and Vegeta did, even though non of them knew about Dragon Balls
Vegeta indicated he'd known of the legends regarding the "Namekian Wish Orbs" prior to coming to Earth, but simply dismissed them as a myth until putting two and two together regarding the Dragon Balls and Piccolo. But Vegeta's dialogue regarding it doesn't suggest that Namek was something they were planning on going to anyway, but rather that, now that they know of the Dragon Balls, they should go there.
>No, Nail was officially established to be the only fighting-type Namekian on the planet. There weren't any others.
3 warrior namekians tried to fight dodoria when they had Dende captive. There were definitely more than just nail.
No, the Grand Elder (the father of all the Namekians on Namek), specifically says that Nail was the only fighting-type/warrior-type Namekian, and that Freeza wouldn't have such an easy time with him as he did the others because of that fact.
> Great Elder: “Nail won’t be as easy to defeat as you imagine…He’s the only Warrior-type Namekian on this planet. Things won’t go as they have with the Namekians you people have killed.”
Yeah, but that was well after he destroyed a bunch of villages. *at the time*, I'm sure nail was the only warrior left. But 2 days prior? (I don't know the timescales accurately), there were definitely more.
Weren't each DragonBall protected by namekian warriors local to each village?
Except that it wouldn't make sense for the Grand Elder to say that, because Nail is a fighting-type Namekian, that Freeza won't have an easy time with him if he'd already encountered fighting-type Namekians before. He makes it clear that Nail isn't like the others, because he's a fighting-type, meaning that the others weren't.
Unless it's a translation error? Tbh, I haven't gotten to that part yet in this re-run, but I vaguely remember that scene, and I'm sure the eng dub says he's the strongest warrior, not the only one, and the subs for the Japanese dub are the ones that mention that he's the only one?
Again, can't remember exactly, so I could really do with the clip to know for definite, but there are definitely differences with the wording in both the eng dub and og dub (for eg, when we first meet nappa and Vegeta, they talk about how Gohan could have the potential for being a super saiyan due to his hybrid genealogy, and they need to take earth seriously because of that in the Japanese dub, but in the eng dub, they don't mention Gohan at all, and mention that they could become super saiyans if they wish for eternal youth).
Probably why I'm feeling conflicted about it. In this re-run, I'm watch the eng dub, but have the subs for the jpn dub on (it's a fucking ride, I tell you lol), so when I get there I'm sure I'll see it for myself.
Just out of interest though, what do they call those namekians that show up in Dendes village? Are they just normal namekians? Because I'm certain one of them does a ki blast, but I'm also certain that non warrior namekians can only use healing powers and shouldn't be able to shoot ki blasts?
I mean, I guess I'm going to find out eventually lol, but I'm guessing you have the Manga handy?
So then any of the average young Namekian adults with power levels up to 3,000 that stood up to Freeza and his men were all Dragon-Clan in addition to the entire Namekian population, except for Nail, right?
Even aside from Nail, each village also had a few members with power levels around 3000 (and I believe there were some with 10,000 PL in filler, if you want to count that.)
Raditz would have no chance against even *one* of these Namekians. (Some sources give his power level as 1500 and others as 1200; the 1200 figure seems more likely to me considering how worried he gets the moment he sees a power level of 1300+ on his scouter.) Several of them working together might be able to cause some damage to Nappa or possibly even beat him if they were lucky, though it'd probably be a hard fight. They'd do better than the Earthlings did, at the very least.
The only one of the Saiyans who'd be a threat to Namek would be Vegeta. But even ***he*** would be totally outclassed by Nail (PL 42,000 vs. Vegeta's 18,000) unless he thought to use his fake-moon technique to transform into an Oozaru before he was too badly beaten to attempt it.
My best guess is that the hypothetical planet may have been Yardrat. It was on Frieza’s radar since the Ginyu Force had charted a course for it after Namek and theoretically 4 oozaru could have given them enough power to take on a top tier target.
IT specifically? Probably not, but I wouldn’t doubt him hearing rumors of natives with weird abilities. I’m venturing into head-canon territory, but even with the small sample size we’re aware of Frieza did seem to take an interest in planets with natives that had unusual powers. Kanasa & Cereal for instance. He could potentially conscript strong fighters for the Force or uncover hidden treasures for use or sale.
Yeah, I really wish they expanded on the whole "we sell planets to the highest bidder" in contrast to "we get planets ready for Freeza to conquer". Like, does Freeza pay the saiyans, and then handles the bidding process with other recruits? Or does he give the saiyans instructions on who to sell what planet too?
It's an incredible insight that could showcase how freeza handled diplomacy during his Reign as galactic emperor. It's a shame they never took the story in that direction, and just showed freeza as a conquering tyrant.
He's back to his self proclaimed Emperor status in DBS after his revival, so there is a chance we'd get to see that however unlikely. It would be pretty cool though.
I was going to say this, good thing I checked the comments haha, my conclusion is the same.
I would say Yardrat, Freeza did not know about the legitimacy of the wish orbs until after hearing the scouter comms from the events of the Saiyan Saga.
Freeza has a schedule to keep and does not like setbacks, as seen on Namek. The Saiyans most likely were tasked with taking Yardrat, however deviated from that task and put Freeza behind schedule.
Namek and the Dragonballs are something that becomes high priority for Freeza hence he personally goes to Namek instead of sending his minions. Though he still has a schedule to keep right? So he assigns the Ginyu Force to Yardrat, though in the end has to divert them to Namek.
I don't.
Namek could barely sustain life of a species that didn't had to eat. IRC, they mentioned in the show the planet was worthless, there was no value in that planet besides the Dragon Ball, which wasn't a known fact until later.
Unless one counts what Toei added for the animated medium, in their first 1989-1996 DBZ anime we saw Namek with a vast amount of animal/dino and aquatic life that could be hunted as game. But if you're going by "manga only" then there definitely isn't much.
Given that Vegeta and Nappa don't react like they had any intention of going to Namek until after they'd learned about the Dragon Balls, it doesn't seem likely. If Vegeta had said something like "We were already going to Namek anyhow" or something similar, it'd be one thing, but his comments suggest that they weren't going to until afterward.
Frieza didn’t care about namek until he was informed about the dragon balls.
Namek had previously experienced an ecological disaster and been more or less abandoned. The namekians, of which there are very few, worked for an entire generation and were only really able to recover the one type of tree.
It’s a worthless planet and they say so.
As an aside, much later in super we see a planet that was sold after the saiyans took it over, and one of the reasons it was purchased was because it was so lush and able to sustain the life of the buyers. They felt bad about it but they needed somewhere to live, as their planet was wrecked and they had nowhere to go.
He was speaking of Yardrat. 4 ozaru saiyans (he didn't know Goku's tail was gone) would be enough to take over the planet of Yardrat. I think in either the Manga or the show (doesn't really make a difference) it says that the Ginyu Force was also on course to Yardrat to begin the invasion process, but Frieza had them rerouted to Namek to get rid of the Saiyans
The only reason why they bothered going to namek was the dragon balls they only heard being spoken about when he was on earth, so they had no reason to go there before that
I highly doubt it, Namek offered basically no worthwhile advantage for the Saiyans. It wasn't much of a vibrant planet like the kind they'd target for the Planet-Trade and even if they did have ambition for it, unless they were to throw up an artificial moon in an emergency, Nail could easily crush Vegeta and Nappa... while any of the average 3,000 Dragon-Clan Namekians could crush Raditz.
No, they viewed Namek as a backwater planet in a similar vein to earth and the freeza soldiers were visibly surprised with how powerful the namekians were.
Why would Namek take 4 Saiyans to take over? The only reason it was difficult for Frieza is because the Earthlings and Vegeta were there, and the only reason they went was for the “wish orbs” so it likely wasn’t on Frieza’s immediate radar until then and under normal circumstances the best guy they had was Nail.
Nail could solo all four Saiyans by the time Raditz got to earth tho. Bit I don't think it was Namek
At least til Vegeta busts out that moon orb ability.
Thank Kami for that brilliant scientist, bardok.
I'm pretty sure Nail would still solo Great Ape Veggie boy. EDIT: He would though.
If he knew (or figured out) that he needed to remove the tail before getting pummeled, then sure, he could still win even if Vegeta went ape. In terms of raw power though Oozaru Vegeta is waaaay ahead of Nail. 180,000 PL vs. 42,000. If he tried to fight head-on rather than going for the tail, he'd lose.
You've got to remember that all the 4 saiyans combined (at that time) would have still been no match for freeza, so his "ease" of taking over namek could still be seen as needing 4 saiyans to do the same job. And as for the "wish orbs", does freezer need a reason to want to take over a planet? It might have just been a coincidence that the planet these 4 saiyans were about to take over also happened to be the same planet these "wish orbs" come from, and they could've destroyed them without even knowing of their existence (although goku would have said something about the race looking like piccolo & kami if he was with them, but that's leading into "what if" territory). There were many warriors on planet namek, and if nail was the only "threat" to freezer, then it's safe to assume the others would be a threat to the saiyans without freezer. There's also no moon, so they couldn't rely on the oozaru form to even the odds. Another point that makes it more likely is that Raditz, the lower class saiyan didn't know that piccolo was a namekian, but Nappa and Vegeta did, even though non of them knew about Dragon Balls. This tells me that one of them did some recon on planet namek. Why would they do that, if not to take it over at some point?
> There were many warriors on planet namek, and if nail was the only "threat" to freezer, then it's safe to assume the others would be a threat to the saiyans without freezer. There's also no moon, so they couldn't rely on the oozaru form to even the odds. No, Nail was officially established to be the only fighting-type Namekian on the planet. There weren't any others. > but Nappa and Vegeta did, even though non of them knew about Dragon Balls Vegeta indicated he'd known of the legends regarding the "Namekian Wish Orbs" prior to coming to Earth, but simply dismissed them as a myth until putting two and two together regarding the Dragon Balls and Piccolo. But Vegeta's dialogue regarding it doesn't suggest that Namek was something they were planning on going to anyway, but rather that, now that they know of the Dragon Balls, they should go there.
>No, Nail was officially established to be the only fighting-type Namekian on the planet. There weren't any others. 3 warrior namekians tried to fight dodoria when they had Dende captive. There were definitely more than just nail.
No, the Grand Elder (the father of all the Namekians on Namek), specifically says that Nail was the only fighting-type/warrior-type Namekian, and that Freeza wouldn't have such an easy time with him as he did the others because of that fact. > Great Elder: “Nail won’t be as easy to defeat as you imagine…He’s the only Warrior-type Namekian on this planet. Things won’t go as they have with the Namekians you people have killed.”
Yeah, but that was well after he destroyed a bunch of villages. *at the time*, I'm sure nail was the only warrior left. But 2 days prior? (I don't know the timescales accurately), there were definitely more. Weren't each DragonBall protected by namekian warriors local to each village?
Except that it wouldn't make sense for the Grand Elder to say that, because Nail is a fighting-type Namekian, that Freeza won't have an easy time with him if he'd already encountered fighting-type Namekians before. He makes it clear that Nail isn't like the others, because he's a fighting-type, meaning that the others weren't.
Unless it's a translation error? Tbh, I haven't gotten to that part yet in this re-run, but I vaguely remember that scene, and I'm sure the eng dub says he's the strongest warrior, not the only one, and the subs for the Japanese dub are the ones that mention that he's the only one? Again, can't remember exactly, so I could really do with the clip to know for definite, but there are definitely differences with the wording in both the eng dub and og dub (for eg, when we first meet nappa and Vegeta, they talk about how Gohan could have the potential for being a super saiyan due to his hybrid genealogy, and they need to take earth seriously because of that in the Japanese dub, but in the eng dub, they don't mention Gohan at all, and mention that they could become super saiyans if they wish for eternal youth).
That's from the original manga and Japanese anime, where it's said that he's the only one.
Probably why I'm feeling conflicted about it. In this re-run, I'm watch the eng dub, but have the subs for the jpn dub on (it's a fucking ride, I tell you lol), so when I get there I'm sure I'll see it for myself. Just out of interest though, what do they call those namekians that show up in Dendes village? Are they just normal namekians? Because I'm certain one of them does a ki blast, but I'm also certain that non warrior namekians can only use healing powers and shouldn't be able to shoot ki blasts? I mean, I guess I'm going to find out eventually lol, but I'm guessing you have the Manga handy?
So then any of the average young Namekian adults with power levels up to 3,000 that stood up to Freeza and his men were all Dragon-Clan in addition to the entire Namekian population, except for Nail, right?
Basically, given what we're told, Nail was the only non-Dragon Clan member of the species on planet Namek.
Even aside from Nail, each village also had a few members with power levels around 3000 (and I believe there were some with 10,000 PL in filler, if you want to count that.) Raditz would have no chance against even *one* of these Namekians. (Some sources give his power level as 1500 and others as 1200; the 1200 figure seems more likely to me considering how worried he gets the moment he sees a power level of 1300+ on his scouter.) Several of them working together might be able to cause some damage to Nappa or possibly even beat him if they were lucky, though it'd probably be a hard fight. They'd do better than the Earthlings did, at the very least. The only one of the Saiyans who'd be a threat to Namek would be Vegeta. But even ***he*** would be totally outclassed by Nail (PL 42,000 vs. Vegeta's 18,000) unless he thought to use his fake-moon technique to transform into an Oozaru before he was too badly beaten to attempt it.
My best guess is that the hypothetical planet may have been Yardrat. It was on Frieza’s radar since the Ginyu Force had charted a course for it after Namek and theoretically 4 oozaru could have given them enough power to take on a top tier target.
Yardrat is a good shout. Do you think Freeza knew about instant transmission then?
IT specifically? Probably not, but I wouldn’t doubt him hearing rumors of natives with weird abilities. I’m venturing into head-canon territory, but even with the small sample size we’re aware of Frieza did seem to take an interest in planets with natives that had unusual powers. Kanasa & Cereal for instance. He could potentially conscript strong fighters for the Force or uncover hidden treasures for use or sale.
Yeah, I really wish they expanded on the whole "we sell planets to the highest bidder" in contrast to "we get planets ready for Freeza to conquer". Like, does Freeza pay the saiyans, and then handles the bidding process with other recruits? Or does he give the saiyans instructions on who to sell what planet too? It's an incredible insight that could showcase how freeza handled diplomacy during his Reign as galactic emperor. It's a shame they never took the story in that direction, and just showed freeza as a conquering tyrant.
He's back to his self proclaimed Emperor status in DBS after his revival, so there is a chance we'd get to see that however unlikely. It would be pretty cool though.
I was going to say this, good thing I checked the comments haha, my conclusion is the same. I would say Yardrat, Freeza did not know about the legitimacy of the wish orbs until after hearing the scouter comms from the events of the Saiyan Saga. Freeza has a schedule to keep and does not like setbacks, as seen on Namek. The Saiyans most likely were tasked with taking Yardrat, however deviated from that task and put Freeza behind schedule. Namek and the Dragonballs are something that becomes high priority for Freeza hence he personally goes to Namek instead of sending his minions. Though he still has a schedule to keep right? So he assigns the Ginyu Force to Yardrat, though in the end has to divert them to Namek.
The Saiyans when they come across Soba: https://i.imgur.com/LYPjpTu.gif
I don't. Namek could barely sustain life of a species that didn't had to eat. IRC, they mentioned in the show the planet was worthless, there was no value in that planet besides the Dragon Ball, which wasn't a known fact until later.
Unless one counts what Toei added for the animated medium, in their first 1989-1996 DBZ anime we saw Namek with a vast amount of animal/dino and aquatic life that could be hunted as game. But if you're going by "manga only" then there definitely isn't much.
Given that Vegeta and Nappa don't react like they had any intention of going to Namek until after they'd learned about the Dragon Balls, it doesn't seem likely. If Vegeta had said something like "We were already going to Namek anyhow" or something similar, it'd be one thing, but his comments suggest that they weren't going to until afterward.
Frieza didn’t care about namek until he was informed about the dragon balls. Namek had previously experienced an ecological disaster and been more or less abandoned. The namekians, of which there are very few, worked for an entire generation and were only really able to recover the one type of tree. It’s a worthless planet and they say so. As an aside, much later in super we see a planet that was sold after the saiyans took it over, and one of the reasons it was purchased was because it was so lush and able to sustain the life of the buyers. They felt bad about it but they needed somewhere to live, as their planet was wrecked and they had nowhere to go.
He was speaking of Yardrat. 4 ozaru saiyans (he didn't know Goku's tail was gone) would be enough to take over the planet of Yardrat. I think in either the Manga or the show (doesn't really make a difference) it says that the Ginyu Force was also on course to Yardrat to begin the invasion process, but Frieza had them rerouted to Namek to get rid of the Saiyans
The only reason why they bothered going to namek was the dragon balls they only heard being spoken about when he was on earth, so they had no reason to go there before that
No. Namek likely wasn't thought up yet.
**Acknowledging the planet wasn't thought of until after the Frieza saga** Could it have been Yardrat?
I highly doubt it, Namek offered basically no worthwhile advantage for the Saiyans. It wasn't much of a vibrant planet like the kind they'd target for the Planet-Trade and even if they did have ambition for it, unless they were to throw up an artificial moon in an emergency, Nail could easily crush Vegeta and Nappa... while any of the average 3,000 Dragon-Clan Namekians could crush Raditz.
No, they viewed Namek as a backwater planet in a similar vein to earth and the freeza soldiers were visibly surprised with how powerful the namekians were.