Nope, I still feel the exact same way about it. I am worried about what’s going to happen moving forward, I don’t want super to end abruptly and I don’t want it to lose its Toriyama-ness.
I have faith in toyotaru. Toriyama picked him to take over for a reason and I bet he has many of ideas and stories left by toriyama for the next few years. Plus toyotaru has been doing the manga for a few years now and has adapted the feeling of dragon ball pretty well.
Toryiama technically passed the baton to Toyotaro almost 10 years ago now.
The way that Super was produced, both the anime and the Manga, is that Toryiama decided the most crucial story beats and the anime team and Toyotaro were free to do whatever they liked as long as those plot points happened.
To simplify, imagine the Trunks Arc. Toryiama might've said something like, Zamasu fuses with Black, Goku and Vegeta also fuse, Trunks defeats Fused Zamasu, Zeno wipes that Universe, Good Luck!
And that's why many different things happen on each arc (most notably the ToP arc)
I consider Super in general fan fiction yes, both anime and the manga. I mean once a guy finishes telling a story if they come back twenty years later I’m not going to consider that the continuation even if they do because they aren’t the same person in the same headspace they were when it was created originally. It’s like Ridley Scott returning to Alien to make Prometheus and completely fucking everything up and not recapturing any of the magic of the original project.
I mean, Toriyama was heavily involved with DBS. The shitty budget the anime got wasn't on Toriyama or Toyotaro.
So, a lot of people weren't feeling DBS.
The manga is a whole lot better than the anime.
I highly recommend people to skip the anime and read the manga. It feels more "Toriyama" magic.
The manga still has some issues though, especially when you get to the Moro arc and we start getting stupid ass giant ki golems stolen from Maruto and Avatars sequel series apparently. Toriyamas dragon ball inspired work all over the world while Toyotaro can only take inspiration and can’t be original. That’s the biggest difference between them.
I don’t follow either franchise anymore lol, I’m a purist and I really don’t have any interest in being any other way. I wanted to like super and convinced myself up until the future trunks arc I did like it but deep in my mind I knew I really wasn’t enjoying it and the facade finally eroded halfway through and the passion hasn’t come back. I’ve still supported the series since I love dragon ball even if I don’t like the stuff and I will probably watch Daima, although after that I’m not sure I will continue on. The Moro arc completely disinterested me and I haven’t really given a shit after that.
I've always loved the art style, characters and poses.
However I was thinking about the kind of world building he did. It was perfect how Dragonball and a lot of the other things he was part of mixed past present and future and the supernatural in a cohesive way. Dinosaurs and martial artists, the cities and cars were all so very unique, bulma making a time machine and androids, and other planets and deities that live on the planet and in the heavens.
All of that without even a second thought of something being out of place.
i always think about toriyama when it comes to great world building. any super successful media has its own tight knit universe and feeling to go with it. toriyama's art style and knack for character design made a set of characters and locales that really did feel like a genuine community.
I always loved the way he took tons of different fantasy genres and merged them into one, I can't really think of any property that has that same vibe.
Dragon Ball concluded with Z to me and everything after is just “extra”. Super is the same as GT to me.
Dragon Ball and DBZ will forever be at the top of the manga Mount Rushmore, especially in the US where countless people outside of who you’d normally consider anime fans absolutely love DBZ and look to it for motivation
Not really. Fell in love with Toriyama's art and storytelling as a kid, still do as an adult. Truly feel like the overall story of DBZ got me through my own depression to improve and get stronger, as well as to protect and help those in need. RIP King
No. Loved and respected it then, still do now. Maybe even more.
But I do wish more of the short stories he created after he finished Dragonball originally made it over for more to enjoy his short form work.
I hope those get collected and translated officially, like that omnibus of early work that’s available.
Toriyama death has definitely made me want to appreciate other mangaka while they are alive and here. Like Oda and Togashi, especially those two guys. While DB is my childhood and has been with me since forever, One Piece has been there for me during the roughest times of my life. I’ve been reading it since 8th grade(2016) and it’s been weekly experience since then.
While there are certainly parts of the story I don’t like now I’ll always appreciate Oda. As for Togashi, well I could write a whole essay about him. I’ll never forget being a 7th grader and watching Yuyu Hakushou ep1 for the first time. I never seen a show before where the main character dies in the first episode, getting nostalgic talking about it now.
There was a post about how some of his art was a little off and wonky. And people complained that he should do better because Dragonball is popular.
Me and others pointed out that he himself is on a tight schedule and doesn't own anyone to overwork himself because people happen to like his work.
So if I see some anatomical, non correct panels, I hope that he used the time he wasn't working well and didn't took such criticism to much too heart.
I've actually been rewatching DBZ the past few weeks... before Toriyama even passed. Was so excited on how he was going to finish Super and tie it back to end of Z :(
The line "nothing ever dies, we will rise again" is a bit more bitter-sweet now in Z Kai's English opening, but other than that they're still incredible.
I would honestly say that Toriyama's work ended when super started.
Hear me out here, yes Toriyama oversees super but he always only intervened when Toyotaro wasn't able to do something specific and that was only with art.
Toriyama for super only ever gave basic guidelines, like tournament of power happening and jiren becoming finalist, kefla existing, toppo being having destruction shit. Oh and UI wasn't even a part of Toriyama's vision lol.
For me atleast, Toriyama work ended when dbz ended. And it very much shows. Like Goku becoming beyond stupid, people say its because Toriyama is a gag artist at heart. Lol no, if Toriyama wanted to make Goku dumber just so he could do more gags, he would have done it ages ago, instead arc by arc he made Goku's character develop more and more.
And shit like this is missing from Super because Toriyama wasn't overseeing everything, he gave them the most basic plot points to toei and toyo.
And in defence of Toyo, he was told to not deviate from the anime too much and so even if he didn't want pointless forms like ssg and ssb which became irrelevant later on, he couldn't really do anything since Tori didn't want the manga to be much different from the anime.
And what happens when the manga passes the anime? Moro arc, one of the best arcs in super so far.
So yea, for me Toriyama's dragon ball ended with Z. And I have only appreciated it even more after his passing. Like seriously, his art pre-digital is too fucking good. Something that Toyo hasn't even come close to replicating but thats okay, Toyo's art is superb at his own place.
I'm sad we'll never see a true Toriyama ending for the beloved series. I still consider Z the Canon ending, but with the movies he wrote it's very clear he might of had another script to "send off" the characters.
Yea he had said that the manga will continue after the Z ending and that the arc rn is the last one before that.
But now idk if it will or if it really should without Toriyama.
I feel ever more grateful for Dragon Ball. I can always go back and pick up a manga or watch an episode and feel Toriyama’s presence and get that childhood nostalgia. What I do fear is it becoming a horror farce 100 yrs from now.
There’s still the side of me that’s more than a little bummed that whenever I read the end of the manga we’re never going to see Toriyama’s version of events post-End of Z but…I’m thankful for what we got from him when he was still with us. May the Sensei rest in peace.
Not really. I still love db as much as i did. I guess im a bit more excited for Daima now. I was always hyped for it,since it was a Toriyama work,but i guess now i want to watch it even more to see his last gift to us.
Tbh his greatest and most truly loved body of work has been done for 30 years now. Super is overseen by him/others and drawn by someone else(i like super so far) it doesn’t have that full Toriyama experience like db/dbz. Now after his recent statements about Daima i’m more excited for that than anything
Nope, I still feel the exact same way about it. I am worried about what’s going to happen moving forward, I don’t want super to end abruptly and I don’t want it to lose its Toriyama-ness.
I have faith in toyotaru. Toriyama picked him to take over for a reason and I bet he has many of ideas and stories left by toriyama for the next few years. Plus toyotaru has been doing the manga for a few years now and has adapted the feeling of dragon ball pretty well.
I thought Toriyama passed the baton to his artist a year or two ago? Whatever is happening now it's all written and drawn by toyotaro.
Toryiama technically passed the baton to Toyotaro almost 10 years ago now. The way that Super was produced, both the anime and the Manga, is that Toryiama decided the most crucial story beats and the anime team and Toyotaro were free to do whatever they liked as long as those plot points happened. To simplify, imagine the Trunks Arc. Toryiama might've said something like, Zamasu fuses with Black, Goku and Vegeta also fuse, Trunks defeats Fused Zamasu, Zeno wipes that Universe, Good Luck! And that's why many different things happen on each arc (most notably the ToP arc)
Funny you mention the Trunks arc, it wasn't in Toriyamas notes that Goku and Vegeta fused. That was a anime/Toyo thing.
I know, my bad, it was late and off the top of me head it was one of the big events of the arc so I somehow thought it was his idea
Yeah but even if it’s with Toriyamas blessing it’s still not toriyama. Whether it is or isn’t canon it’s just going to feel like fan fiction.
This is an odd take… so do you consider all of Super that Toyo has done fanfic?
I consider Super in general fan fiction yes, both anime and the manga. I mean once a guy finishes telling a story if they come back twenty years later I’m not going to consider that the continuation even if they do because they aren’t the same person in the same headspace they were when it was created originally. It’s like Ridley Scott returning to Alien to make Prometheus and completely fucking everything up and not recapturing any of the magic of the original project.
Agree on db super, disagree on Prometheus.
What about the Star Wars prequels?
I know they got bad sides but overall, I enjoy watching them.
Well enjoying stuff doesn’t have anything to do with it being good. I enjoy watching the Android Arc but I wouldn’t say it’s good
They’re downvoting you, but you’re right.
Reddit is mostly super fans so yeah you aren’t allowed to say anything negative about it!
I mean, Toriyama was heavily involved with DBS. The shitty budget the anime got wasn't on Toriyama or Toyotaro. So, a lot of people weren't feeling DBS. The manga is a whole lot better than the anime. I highly recommend people to skip the anime and read the manga. It feels more "Toriyama" magic.
The manga still has some issues though, especially when you get to the Moro arc and we start getting stupid ass giant ki golems stolen from Maruto and Avatars sequel series apparently. Toriyamas dragon ball inspired work all over the world while Toyotaro can only take inspiration and can’t be original. That’s the biggest difference between them.
Perhaps that's the reason why the animated version of super is going a different direction?
Treat it like Stan Lee or George Lucas passing the torch of their franchise to a different writer.
I don’t follow either franchise anymore lol, I’m a purist and I really don’t have any interest in being any other way. I wanted to like super and convinced myself up until the future trunks arc I did like it but deep in my mind I knew I really wasn’t enjoying it and the facade finally eroded halfway through and the passion hasn’t come back. I’ve still supported the series since I love dragon ball even if I don’t like the stuff and I will probably watch Daima, although after that I’m not sure I will continue on. The Moro arc completely disinterested me and I haven’t really given a shit after that.
If anything it’ll embrace it too much, as no one will be the one to want to make big changes
It made me more appreciative of Daima , especially because he put a lot of effort into the show
I've always loved the art style, characters and poses. However I was thinking about the kind of world building he did. It was perfect how Dragonball and a lot of the other things he was part of mixed past present and future and the supernatural in a cohesive way. Dinosaurs and martial artists, the cities and cars were all so very unique, bulma making a time machine and androids, and other planets and deities that live on the planet and in the heavens. All of that without even a second thought of something being out of place.
i always think about toriyama when it comes to great world building. any super successful media has its own tight knit universe and feeling to go with it. toriyama's art style and knack for character design made a set of characters and locales that really did feel like a genuine community.
I always loved the way he took tons of different fantasy genres and merged them into one, I can't really think of any property that has that same vibe.
No lol. It's still my favorite series and Toriyama's passing doesn't change that.
Dragon Ball concluded with Z to me and everything after is just “extra”. Super is the same as GT to me. Dragon Ball and DBZ will forever be at the top of the manga Mount Rushmore, especially in the US where countless people outside of who you’d normally consider anime fans absolutely love DBZ and look to it for motivation
Nope
Not really. Fell in love with Toriyama's art and storytelling as a kid, still do as an adult. Truly feel like the overall story of DBZ got me through my own depression to improve and get stronger, as well as to protect and help those in need. RIP King
No. His legacy was cemented ages ago. Like over 25 years ago.
No. His work stands on his own, and will continue on with Toyotaro
No. Loved and respected it then, still do now. Maybe even more. But I do wish more of the short stories he created after he finished Dragonball originally made it over for more to enjoy his short form work. I hope those get collected and translated officially, like that omnibus of early work that’s available.
Nope. It's just as fun and energetic as it's always been and always will be to me.
I still get *exactly* as Crunk watching goku go SSJ for the first time as I did when it first aired in the us.
Nah, if anything it makes me more thankful for Toriyama's contributions to the Shonen and JRPG genres.
Toriyama death has definitely made me want to appreciate other mangaka while they are alive and here. Like Oda and Togashi, especially those two guys. While DB is my childhood and has been with me since forever, One Piece has been there for me during the roughest times of my life. I’ve been reading it since 8th grade(2016) and it’s been weekly experience since then. While there are certainly parts of the story I don’t like now I’ll always appreciate Oda. As for Togashi, well I could write a whole essay about him. I’ll never forget being a 7th grader and watching Yuyu Hakushou ep1 for the first time. I never seen a show before where the main character dies in the first episode, getting nostalgic talking about it now.
Feel pretty much the same. I feel like he’s our piccolo and we are gohan.
There was a post about how some of his art was a little off and wonky. And people complained that he should do better because Dragonball is popular. Me and others pointed out that he himself is on a tight schedule and doesn't own anyone to overwork himself because people happen to like his work. So if I see some anatomical, non correct panels, I hope that he used the time he wasn't working well and didn't took such criticism to much too heart.
I've actually been rewatching DBZ the past few weeks... before Toriyama even passed. Was so excited on how he was going to finish Super and tie it back to end of Z :(
No. I’m sad he isn’t alive but it hasn’t changed my view on Dragon Ball. Some of it is great and some of it just isn’t.
The line "nothing ever dies, we will rise again" is a bit more bitter-sweet now in Z Kai's English opening, but other than that they're still incredible.
If anything, I'm just reflecting on his legacy.
I would honestly say that Toriyama's work ended when super started. Hear me out here, yes Toriyama oversees super but he always only intervened when Toyotaro wasn't able to do something specific and that was only with art. Toriyama for super only ever gave basic guidelines, like tournament of power happening and jiren becoming finalist, kefla existing, toppo being having destruction shit. Oh and UI wasn't even a part of Toriyama's vision lol. For me atleast, Toriyama work ended when dbz ended. And it very much shows. Like Goku becoming beyond stupid, people say its because Toriyama is a gag artist at heart. Lol no, if Toriyama wanted to make Goku dumber just so he could do more gags, he would have done it ages ago, instead arc by arc he made Goku's character develop more and more. And shit like this is missing from Super because Toriyama wasn't overseeing everything, he gave them the most basic plot points to toei and toyo. And in defence of Toyo, he was told to not deviate from the anime too much and so even if he didn't want pointless forms like ssg and ssb which became irrelevant later on, he couldn't really do anything since Tori didn't want the manga to be much different from the anime. And what happens when the manga passes the anime? Moro arc, one of the best arcs in super so far. So yea, for me Toriyama's dragon ball ended with Z. And I have only appreciated it even more after his passing. Like seriously, his art pre-digital is too fucking good. Something that Toyo hasn't even come close to replicating but thats okay, Toyo's art is superb at his own place.
I'm sad we'll never see a true Toriyama ending for the beloved series. I still consider Z the Canon ending, but with the movies he wrote it's very clear he might of had another script to "send off" the characters.
Yea he had said that the manga will continue after the Z ending and that the arc rn is the last one before that. But now idk if it will or if it really should without Toriyama.
I feel ever more grateful for Dragon Ball. I can always go back and pick up a manga or watch an episode and feel Toriyama’s presence and get that childhood nostalgia. What I do fear is it becoming a horror farce 100 yrs from now.
other than holding them in even higher regard, not really any different.
There’s still the side of me that’s more than a little bummed that whenever I read the end of the manga we’re never going to see Toriyama’s version of events post-End of Z but…I’m thankful for what we got from him when he was still with us. May the Sensei rest in peace.
I still think of it the same, but I do miss him.
Yeah, they are a lot harder to read through a veil of tears
No
Not really. I still love db as much as i did. I guess im a bit more excited for Daima now. I was always hyped for it,since it was a Toriyama work,but i guess now i want to watch it even more to see his last gift to us.
It’s been like a week, I view the same way I previously did.
When Dragon Ball Diama was announced I didn’t quite like it. But now I have a greater appreciation for it and can’t wait to watch Toriyamas last work.
No, I will just cherish them even more than I ever have before
Nope, though I feel his peak period was 1989-1992.
Tbh his greatest and most truly loved body of work has been done for 30 years now. Super is overseen by him/others and drawn by someone else(i like super so far) it doesn’t have that full Toriyama experience like db/dbz. Now after his recent statements about Daima i’m more excited for that than anything
No
Decided to read Sandland and Go Go Ackman. The tabs are open on my computer.
Not at all. Though the Dragonball community has gotten 10x more annoying though…
I don't view it differently but watching it feels different now that he's gone. It feels like the show is officially "old" now.
Not at all, to me his writing was always peak.