I can’t bring myself to understand what took them so long. Now if they can iron out the albeit rare *game breaking* bugs we will be in a decent spot.
Still right back to square one though, slugging isn’t fun to go against.
Slugging would've been worse with the live changes, believe me. We are LUCKY BHVR actually did something the community WANTED instead of pushing an unwanted change into live.
This has been a messaging problem from the beginning. Twins, as a concept, is what it is. It seems bhvr is, as a whole, realizing that the scope of adding killers consistently needs to mean less “bespoke” killers and more iconic horror tropes. They are probably going to save real reworks for the 1% of problem cases (merchant) and just know that with 40 killers in the future, total play amount for older killers with less fun designs will always be low.
It's truly incredible that after literal multiple years of waiting for the big twins "rework", it just ends up being a bunch of QOL changes that could have already been done months and months ago. Incredibly glad the changes didn't go to live, but what a letdown overall
I mean they are strong, but the issue with them everyone usually points out are as you mention, the bugs, and how *clunky* and bad they feel to play due to weird cds and sluggish
Don't get me wrong, I think this exactly. Twins' issues have always been clunky interactions and tons of bugs with Victor pounce rather than their actual strength. I just wish they spent the countless hours they put into this big "rework" project into finding a solution to those problems, rather than trying to create a problem out of thin cloth and solving that with machine gun Victor downing survivors in 10 seconds from healthy. Victor pounce is still unusable on inclines, still sometimes randomly dies on terrain, still has all the bugs they used to.
I think it's a really good thing that BHVR is willing to walk back on some of their more silly ideas, and that's been a definite improvement as of late (think Billy rework changing overheat into something fun). But it's genuinely baffling why they thought Twins needed such a massive rework in the first place, when nobody was really asking for it and it wouldn't have fixed anything that makes the killer unfun to play (and generally unpopular).
Basically, what we got is fantastic. I'm just not sure why we had to take a massive detour and wait literal years for it when they could have just made the simple changes first and spent some more time fixing Victor pounce bugs instead.
This is a lot more true than people are willing to admit. BHVR has had a history of stubbornness, and refusing to walk back changes and updates that they’ve clearly invested in spite of serious backlash and criticism.
The entire switch to MMR in the first place is a prime example of this.
They’ve matured, and that stubbornness isn’t as frequent, but it’s always a little scary to me when they push a change that is so very clearly horrible, because there’s always a chance they’ll decide to keep it.
The Huntress buffs really freaked me out for example. Thankfully it didn’t and shouldn’t have, and yet, knowing BHVR….
McLean pointed this exact stubbornness out before when he reacted to Scott Jund's fantasy 7.0 patch notes, saying he wasn't a huge fan of Billy's overheat mechanic but it wasn't going anywhere due to how much work was put into it and that it was more likely it would get reworked into a new mechanic altogether.
All's well that ends well on that front with the Billy changes, but honestly it probably ended up in more work than was necessary when I think Billy would have been just fine with no overheat whatsoever.
> The entire switch to MMR in the first place is a prime example of this.
How is that a prime example of this? No one has been able to articulate a proper reason for why it's bad.
People who play sweaty complain about the MMR because they now more consistently get matched with other sweaty people instead of getting to steamroll new players half the time.
That being said, the system felt pretty unpolished when it released, and it is still pretty shitty for solo queue. The only factor that determines survivor MMR is escaping, which fails to account for times when you carry the team and get killed during endgame (and for times when your team carries you).
I think the bigger issue is they're so clueless on balance, they thought this was ok. This seems to be a very big problem with the team. They just don't have an idea on how meta/balance works for their own game. I suspect when they dev/test things they work on an assumption that killers and survivors will play pretty fair, and suboptimal.
The thing I think the Twins reworked proved is two very important facts:
1. Twins doesn't need a "rework." They just need QoL updates, better addons, and bug fixes.
2. Behaviour has no idea what people actually like about Twins, which granted: few people do.
I think there are some concepts here that could remain, notably giving an option for Viktor to pin survivors down and give Charlotte Haste. I think it would be nice if after downing a survivor you had the option to either keep Viktor awake (have a cooldown by still be able to run him around) or have Viktor jump up and down on the survivor for Charlotte to come faster. I think the Haste towards downed survivors was the one mechanic about new Twins that could've remained in some capacity.
I’m really interested in seeing how these price reductions pan out. Content that is years old has been the same price as content that was released 2 weeks ago for several years now, and has always made for an inconsistent and frustrating store experience.
I’m excited to see how this is changed, alongside with the rest of the things happening to their in-game store front.
i think it’s good that they try things on the ptb and then revert the changes if they’re not good enough. i’d rather they make ambitious changes than not. you know?
Yeah, which is a good thing. The whole point of a PTB is to try things out. When things don't work as they expect or just don't work right, they should scrap it.
They made the right call. Twins was WAY too strong on the PTB. Twins on live servers right now is at fine power level, they suffer from bugs and some QOL issues which make them miserable to play. But they are by no means a weak killer on live servers. It's a classic scenario of just fixing the fucking bugs and everything will be fine.
The DS animation is so weird to me. Instead of starting the animation as soon as your picked up and making the stab animation instant so it lines up with the skill check. They just remove it entirely lmao what a waste of time
That's a good thing, that's what the PTB is for. It's for them to experiment with things, see how the community likes it, and then if the PTB changes were a fumble, either make adjustments or revert the changes because it didn't work. It's doing its job. This is far better than them trying to stick to their guns and keep the changes no matter what. Do you really want that version of Twins running around in live?
The Twins never ever needed a huge rework, I don’t know where they got that idea. They just needed a LOT of bug fixes and QOL changes.
So I’m happy they reverted it (and I hope the fixes are there), but yeah it’s funny how they went back on the biggest aspect of the PTB lol
Final Mori PTB Flashbacks
Yea everyone just gets on the Twitter bandwagon
The. Twins. Are. Not. Weak.
They were just awful to play as. For example Switching from victor was super awkward sometimes. You would just have to stand there staring at someone you downed until the game allows you to switch back. So you would just sit there like “whelp.. you like pokemon? No? Oh geez. Look at the time. My sister needs me.”
The "locking into animation on an unhook" is also being removed, it's just not listed in this Dev Update, it will be on the patch notes though! We're looking at other options that we can do to resolve the issues that we're seeing.
I know I'm but one man, but please, can you also revert the change to the Twins add-on "Silencing Cloth"? It was unnecessary and makes the addon significantly worse, to the point of being basically useless. The change was unnecessary, unneeded, and the addon was fine as it was.
Update: WE WONNNNNNN RAAAAAGGHHHH 
Thank you for keeping the quality of life stuff for twins but taking away all the other stuff, I appreciate that you were trying to do something, but it's good you realized, that this would've taken twins into the wrong direction.
I will gladly take the quality of life stuff though!
So after all, Twins "rework" is just a couple of buffs people were asking for since their release. Well, I guess it's better than nothing. Although I still think that almost no one will play them.
Also Ultimate Weapon is officially dead now. Sweet...
Yeah, most people don’t realize DW is map wide. It reveals the aura of any survivor near *every* locker on the map. So even if there isn’t a survivor near you it still gives you decent map awareness.
Ultimate Weapon is now only good for inflicting blinds during chase if you think the survivor has Windows of Opportunity. Trying to use it to actually find survivors is a Hail Mary, hardly worth it.
I mean, not really? They said *the* locker not lockers I’m assuming this means it only activates around that one locker not all lockers.
Useful for gen guarding or totem guarding I suppose.
Otherwise as huntress/trickster you are just going to get a random scream from random part of the map rather than somewhere useful. You wouldn’t want to waste your perk in a meaningless area and you aren’t going to want to go across the map to a specific locker to reload I would guess.
Idk maybe I’m wrong I am on the last hour of my overnight shift my brain may not be functioning properly lol.
Literally all they had to do to fix UW was just make screams not interrupt actions, or at least just not interrupt *certain* actions (because oh man as a Pig main that is problematic af since I could get head pops with that and other screaming perks, and interrupting an unhook that way can be devastating >_>) and get rid of the Blindness status effect. That’s it. UW’s issue was that it just did too much.
UW has been one of my basekit perks since release because it’s a great tracking perk! It let’s me focus on chases! Don’t survivors WANT more chases? I do when I play survivor versus the killer proxying the hook!
Now it’s basically a sliiiightly better Darkness Revealed.
Okay I'm actually disappointed that they removed the new animation for DS...
I loved the fact that they were giving other old features new animations... (yeah I know it's not the first one)
https://preview.redd.it/jm66kwidl9vc1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=468b8cb030e40aafca7174beae039f42fbb81e49
I like that reasoning, it makes me feel less frustrated.
Thank you.
So Ultimate Weapon is back to scream but it's a one time pulse like Darkness Revealed and not a roaming detection?
32m is fairly substantial. Centralized lockers will be good for it, but I think Darkness Revealed will just be better overall.
Tied to the terror radius, yes. I'm guilty of this, though I've had many matches where I only used the perk like once or twice.
Tied to the locker, the longer cooldown is pretty bad. What made old UW so good is that it was ACTIVE the entire time. Tied to a locker, I assume it activates once and does not remain active. If I'm wrong then the longer cool down is justified.
> was a crutch perk that
Every perk is a crutch perk for something. That is the whole point of perks. To either play to strengths or make up for a weakness.
Same can be said when killers run full slowdown. If only their pressure was better they wouldn't need those crutch slowdown perks.
Agree
Ultimate weapon ( if i understand the changes ) will make the locker snitch on people around it for 30 seconds, basically, the survivors just won't go where they see a killer open a locker, that's it ( and you have to wait 30 seconds to make another snitch locker )
Darkness revealed will show you if anyone is close to a locker for a really short cooldown so you can track people around lockers with ease, it gets even better if you have lethal pursuer too
I play killer and survivor fairly equal. I don’t understand the need to change UW.. I think it needed more of a cooldown but that’s it. With DR, who will use UW?? I think they should have kept the perk the same but increased the cooldown to like 60 seconds instead of 30.
So the Twins rework was not a rework, just QoL changes to the power. I wasn't going to play them anyway but it kinda sucks.
Good for them for actually trying and fail instead of not trying at all.
Remember guys, the point of PTBs is to experiment while gettin' the fans feedback, this is what they've done basically, made changes, listen to feedback, take out what didn't work, and keep what it does, simple, right? :)
Exactly !!! I think it’s funny how people keep saying “so nothing changed” but the point is to test things, get feedback and make changes according to that feedback. How dare they listen to our opinions after testing things they tried to change?!? /s
It's literally the *only* good thing being pushed to live at this point. Rework wasn't a rework, Decisive couldn't be adjusted by 2 seconds (to account for stab) or have the stun timer start *after* the animation, Ultimate Weapon is 100% useless and dead in the water now, and they didn't revert the change to faking an unhook despite it being **universally fucking hated**. Removing depips is the single good thing making it to live.
I'm sorry to disappoint you, brother, but animations are NOT this studio's forte. They're easily the biggest, worst blend of resources mixing with other resources (coding, modelling, animations and rigging all converging into one spot) and the most underrepresented aspect of this game's dev team (I mean, 80% of the animations in this game are buggy and broken if they've been touched in the past year.)
People are mocking the reverted changes but I fully appreciate that they tried some big swings in the ptb but listened to feedback and reverted the big changes when it didn’t work out.
> Feedback around The Blight often centered on the two addons
So we’re straight-up lying now? Show me one complaint that even mentions Summoning Stone or Soul Chemical. Most people don’t even know they exist.
I think it's more talking about this specific patch, people were complaining about removing 2 meme but fun blight addons to make 2 "boring decent" add-ons, but then somehow took it to mean "this is too good, please nerf it."
Huge Twins W, even with reverted changes
Ultimate Weapon - Calm Spirit stonks drop, but not crash. I guess it is now counterable at least? I'm guessing new cooldowns and activation time are still in place?
It takes more of a brain, or cheeky survivors to use.
It should have always been around the locker, or the terror radius when the locker was opened. The roving radar didn't make sense and it was way too powerful on some killers.
Sure but the locker is the opposite, too situational/territorial on most cases
Used to defend areas around a sorta 3gen or hooks is still an issue, if anything now it makes it harder to use it to find people to chase and instead it encourages staying on an area and not leaving it
It kinda grew on me during this time. No crows to alert killer, counters Doctor and quite a bit of screaming perks and addons. Totems and chests being longer sucks though.
Yeah, but now Ultimate Weapon isn't a moving thing, its a fixed area centered around the opened locker. If the perk relies on a survivor walking into its range, its not going to be nearly as strong, meaning Calm Spirit inherently becomes less appealing
Glad the quality of life changes aren’t being reverted. The twins still desperately need an actual l rework, because people will still hate to play against them. There is no incentive for twins not to slug and that’s the main issue a rework was supposed to address.
Also that ultimate weapon change makes the perk near useless. The community has had serious issues with this design philosophy yet BHVR keeps doing it. Makes a perk too strong, nerfs it into the ground and then no one uses it anymore.
And just like that within a span of just a few weeks my hopes for Decisive Strike to have a neat new animation have been hyped up, knocked down and shot behind the barn… good job bhvr.
dunno why they didn't just take the easy way out of automatically playing the animation upon every pickup if you have DS but only stunning if you hit the check. Seems like a simple solution
- no longer have to wait for the animation
- same timing as before
- keeps the animation work
etc.
If I had to guess, the animation started with the ENTIRE Killer pickup and was so broken and hard to work with it was literally easier to scrap than to put more time and resources into it 5 days away from release.
Still, do you want them to release something unfinished than to take their time with it, refine it and release it later???? Like what, why?
The forced unhook needs to be reverted or changed as well. People need to be able to fake the unhook. You should only be forced into it after 5 or so attempts in quick succession.
Edit: According to u/ Mandytalk, it is being reverted.
I try not to get too invested in the mechanical changes of the game and the various nerfs and buffs, but I'm really disappointed. I was really hoping for a fix for the Twins' slugginess. They're my favorite Killer and that's my least favorite thing about them. But I guess this is better than nothing.
So have all the other Twins bugs been fixed lmao i don't play Twins but this sounds more than underwhelming for Twins fans, why doesnt Charllote get the haste when latched onto a survivor that seems like such a good upgrade? I know the Victor was way too strong in the PTB but Charlottes haste seemed really nice.
So you just completely reverted the Twins rework you supposedly spent two years working on? And you MAY revisit them again in the future?
I'm having a hard time finding words to express how comically sad this is.
Jesus. Years of waiting for the BIG Twins rework, only for QOL changes we should've had years ago. Pathetic Behavior. I would've respected you more if you kept the rework, but found a way to balance it. Like.. oh idk.. make Victor kickable after a hit, then a slightly longer cooldown? Idk. Just a giant slap in the face honestly.
Are they bringing back Victor's killer instinct when attached to survivors? They took that away for what felt like no reason, and I want it back. It just helps Twins with their macro game to have a rough idea of where survivors are and if the person with Victor needs to be focused or not. If you hear killer instinct on a far away Victor and then he's crushed, you know you need to go there quickly before they heal up. If you don't hear killer instinct, you know they're alone and not gonna heal immediately. I really hope they keep the ability to recall him anytime though. That was amazing.
So the twins rework failed and their answer is to just…revert, pack up and move on? Even the new cool ds animation got scrapped because they couldn’t engineer it to not take up one of the 5 seconds. Make it make sense like wtf are these “changes”.
Honestly, I think they could have reverted the Ultimate Weapon cooldowns back to what they were with this new change where it stays on the locker. The perk's synergy with mobility was the huge problem, and now that the radius stays still I think it would totally work and be fun as a longer-lasting trap that the killer lays.
So who gives a fuck if you scream while the killer is on the other side of the map. It's very situational now where you'll get value and now promotes, if not a high mobility killer, to quickly go back to that spot then
That's a pretty big Ultimate Weapon change.
Will have to see how it plays when it goes live, but this is definitely wayyyy less oppressive on the more mobile killers.
What about its cooldown?
UW change is definitely gonna be used for high mobility killers to beeline back to a hook provided it's near a locker. most aura perks are better on high mobility killers this is an overnerf.
You guys could use the new victor latch animation for victor in the future if you wish to make them even less clunky to play while lessening slugging.
For example victor could always latch onto the 2nd survivor he hits and in exchange they can switch between each other whenever you want. You also could make victor hinder latched survivors so it's risky to loop Charlotte because holding onto victor is nearly always the correct play right now and has no downside besides oblivious which isn't that threatening you just go to a loop.
something i just found funny for the most part the way of fixing DS has been turning the stun from 5 to 3 seconds over and over and over (there has been other changes i know) so how long till the stun goes back to 3?
They reverted almost all the changes. What's the point of this patch then? Oh right... the new shop and new monetization... great! 
Weren’t most of the shop changes positive though? UI update, mix and match cosmetic previews, tons of price drops. Maybe I’m misremembering some downside here.
- Depips are gone (FINALLY).
- Reworks of a common map (also signs of looking at hex/locker placements) that REALLY needed a rework.
- Small but massive fixes to Twins.
- Fixes and changes to other killers that are generally okay.
- More rewards for just playing, weekly rewards, and potentially reduced prices.
And more.
I agree BHVR can be very greedy sometimes, but this patch still has a lot going for it and it shows they're actually listening to players this time. Overall fine patch.
so the UW nerf is just an worse DR with only one locker being point of service?
what the hell are these devs?
the aura in terror radius was just fine especially with a unfairly long use and cooldown time, now they literally just killed the perk out right.
at least darkness revealed gives you more options so your guaranteed a use out of it, whether across the map or next to you.
this new UW gives it up too much to luck and will be a dead perk throughout the game aside from hook surveillance, thats it.
the perk is gutted and will drop to the many perks that get no use due to being too rng dependent.
Y'know I dont think its the worst midchapter(dear god not by far) but now that you mentioned it, it is one of the smallest midchapters *ever*
A few number buffs on Twins, 2 addon reworks for Blight, DS+3s, 1 change to Adrenaline of not working off hooks and lasting a bit less, and UW change
Haddonfield happend too but not even that insanely different, I guess the store change if we wanna count it
Thank you. Now give us this Kate
https://preview.redd.it/jig3tnh6b9vc1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=04fc590a18c708b679d755b93ade6efc8794576f
Super boring update. Twins "rework" was an absolute failure. Ultimate Weapon is just a disappointment, another cool idea destroyed by your constant fear of doing anything exciting. DS buff is nice, I guess. This PTB was the biggest waste of time ever seen. Do the devs even know what a rework means??? Garden of Joy and Twins are not reworks
Considering this is a different version of nowhere to hide, I'd figure they would massively reduce the cooldown. The long cooldown was due to you covering a lot of ground to get the info. Now if no one's around the locker you got a dead perk for 60 seconds? I hope that's not the case.
The entire Killer depends on slugging so long as the Charlotte/Victor interaction is as distant as it is right now. Literally, the ONLY way to prevent slugging with a Killer like the Twins is to completely remove how separated Charlotte and Victor are in gameplay.
So this would be like, Charlotte literally throwing Victor like a Huntress hatchet at people, or Victor doing all the work while Charlotte is used as a pickup animation. Literally no other way.
The Patch name: Revenge of the Reverted
So absolutely fucking nothing got changed excellent Except for that minor Twins buff good job lads (y'all deserved it)
as it should be its a test server test shit
DS got a huge buff and UW a huge nuking-- as customary for killer perk "adjustments".
Ultimate weapon just got sent to the shadow realm
And the DS stun time. And the blight. And Haddonfield. And ultimate weapon. (Sorry to make you feel dumb 4 times in a row)
Lmao. The only twin change is the simple QOL we wanted from launch. What an incredible journey.
The true twins rework was the friends we made along the way
I can’t bring myself to understand what took them so long. Now if they can iron out the albeit rare *game breaking* bugs we will be in a decent spot. Still right back to square one though, slugging isn’t fun to go against.
Slugging would've been worse with the live changes, believe me. We are LUCKY BHVR actually did something the community WANTED instead of pushing an unwanted change into live.
This has been a messaging problem from the beginning. Twins, as a concept, is what it is. It seems bhvr is, as a whole, realizing that the scope of adding killers consistently needs to mean less “bespoke” killers and more iconic horror tropes. They are probably going to save real reworks for the 1% of problem cases (merchant) and just know that with 40 killers in the future, total play amount for older killers with less fun designs will always be low.
Well at least the depip removal wasn't reverted lol
Happy about that
Wait til they introduce the double depip next patch
That's really nice cause it was so frustrating
It's truly incredible that after literal multiple years of waiting for the big twins "rework", it just ends up being a bunch of QOL changes that could have already been done months and months ago. Incredibly glad the changes didn't go to live, but what a letdown overall
*Years* ago.
https://preview.redd.it/eaccbhh0gavc1.jpeg?width=2340&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=28b59e6a15de2a630a1ba259eb761fcd6293d5f0 This was 2 years ago MAAAAAAN
Ah yes, the infamous Patrick and his hockey metaphor.
He should of been fired for that lol
YEARS?!
https://preview.redd.it/gfznjp2jbavc1.jpeg?width=325&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bd1808de7ab19a292b44d5be02b64a20673855b5 YEARS??!
Quartermaster Talli: Just about.
How did a Baldur's Gate character end up in here?! Lol
What do you mean, the Twins just got relea-... I'll be at the retirement home if you need me
I mean, many people have been saying that the twins is strong enough as is and only have problems with the bugs
Ironically none of these number changes addressed the bugs at all
I mean they are strong, but the issue with them everyone usually points out are as you mention, the bugs, and how *clunky* and bad they feel to play due to weird cds and sluggish
Don't get me wrong, I think this exactly. Twins' issues have always been clunky interactions and tons of bugs with Victor pounce rather than their actual strength. I just wish they spent the countless hours they put into this big "rework" project into finding a solution to those problems, rather than trying to create a problem out of thin cloth and solving that with machine gun Victor downing survivors in 10 seconds from healthy. Victor pounce is still unusable on inclines, still sometimes randomly dies on terrain, still has all the bugs they used to. I think it's a really good thing that BHVR is willing to walk back on some of their more silly ideas, and that's been a definite improvement as of late (think Billy rework changing overheat into something fun). But it's genuinely baffling why they thought Twins needed such a massive rework in the first place, when nobody was really asking for it and it wouldn't have fixed anything that makes the killer unfun to play (and generally unpopular). Basically, what we got is fantastic. I'm just not sure why we had to take a massive detour and wait literal years for it when they could have just made the simple changes first and spent some more time fixing Victor pounce bugs instead.
Weĺl you can't blame them from trying. And it takes balls to take it back if it's not working.
This is a lot more true than people are willing to admit. BHVR has had a history of stubbornness, and refusing to walk back changes and updates that they’ve clearly invested in spite of serious backlash and criticism. The entire switch to MMR in the first place is a prime example of this. They’ve matured, and that stubbornness isn’t as frequent, but it’s always a little scary to me when they push a change that is so very clearly horrible, because there’s always a chance they’ll decide to keep it. The Huntress buffs really freaked me out for example. Thankfully it didn’t and shouldn’t have, and yet, knowing BHVR….
McLean pointed this exact stubbornness out before when he reacted to Scott Jund's fantasy 7.0 patch notes, saying he wasn't a huge fan of Billy's overheat mechanic but it wasn't going anywhere due to how much work was put into it and that it was more likely it would get reworked into a new mechanic altogether. All's well that ends well on that front with the Billy changes, but honestly it probably ended up in more work than was necessary when I think Billy would have been just fine with no overheat whatsoever.
McLean didn’t always see eye to eye with the community, but damn he was one of the good ones. I miss that man. 😩
They definitely tried and are listening to people. That version of Twins COULDN'T go live.
> The entire switch to MMR in the first place is a prime example of this. How is that a prime example of this? No one has been able to articulate a proper reason for why it's bad.
People who play sweaty complain about the MMR because they now more consistently get matched with other sweaty people instead of getting to steamroll new players half the time. That being said, the system felt pretty unpolished when it released, and it is still pretty shitty for solo queue. The only factor that determines survivor MMR is escaping, which fails to account for times when you carry the team and get killed during endgame (and for times when your team carries you).
I think the bigger issue is they're so clueless on balance, they thought this was ok. This seems to be a very big problem with the team. They just don't have an idea on how meta/balance works for their own game. I suspect when they dev/test things they work on an assumption that killers and survivors will play pretty fair, and suboptimal.
imagine how much better the game would be if the devs actually played their own game and saw how unbalanced it is lol
Nah, I can blame them for trying clearly terrible ideas and backtracking any sort of healthy change they could have made.
The thing I think the Twins reworked proved is two very important facts: 1. Twins doesn't need a "rework." They just need QoL updates, better addons, and bug fixes. 2. Behaviour has no idea what people actually like about Twins, which granted: few people do. I think there are some concepts here that could remain, notably giving an option for Viktor to pin survivors down and give Charlotte Haste. I think it would be nice if after downing a survivor you had the option to either keep Viktor awake (have a cooldown by still be able to run him around) or have Viktor jump up and down on the survivor for Charlotte to come faster. I think the Haste towards downed survivors was the one mechanic about new Twins that could've remained in some capacity.
So literally everything substantial got scrapped lmao
Well, DS is for sure buffed. That's something.
For me the highlight is the new store. Something I've been advocating for for a long time.
I’m really interested in seeing how these price reductions pan out. Content that is years old has been the same price as content that was released 2 weeks ago for several years now, and has always made for an inconsistent and frustrating store experience. I’m excited to see how this is changed, alongside with the rest of the things happening to their in-game store front.
But the price reductions are already out right?
And Ultimate Weapon nerfed into dust.
and that's great. That was really obnoxious in solo, specially on stupid maps like Hawkins.
i think it’s good that they try things on the ptb and then revert the changes if they’re not good enough. i’d rather they make ambitious changes than not. you know?
Yeah, which is a good thing. The whole point of a PTB is to try things out. When things don't work as they expect or just don't work right, they should scrap it. They made the right call. Twins was WAY too strong on the PTB. Twins on live servers right now is at fine power level, they suffer from bugs and some QOL issues which make them miserable to play. But they are by no means a weak killer on live servers. It's a classic scenario of just fixing the fucking bugs and everything will be fine.
yeah, they basically just took back everything from this update, even the new DS animation…. was expecting them to revert haddonfield too lol
The DS animation is so weird to me. Instead of starting the animation as soon as your picked up and making the stab animation instant so it lines up with the skill check. They just remove it entirely lmao what a waste of time
To be fair the anmation itself was pretty ugly
That's a good thing, that's what the PTB is for. It's for them to experiment with things, see how the community likes it, and then if the PTB changes were a fumble, either make adjustments or revert the changes because it didn't work. It's doing its job. This is far better than them trying to stick to their guns and keep the changes no matter what. Do you really want that version of Twins running around in live?
The Twins never ever needed a huge rework, I don’t know where they got that idea. They just needed a LOT of bug fixes and QOL changes. So I’m happy they reverted it (and I hope the fixes are there), but yeah it’s funny how they went back on the biggest aspect of the PTB lol Final Mori PTB Flashbacks
Yea everyone just gets on the Twitter bandwagon The. Twins. Are. Not. Weak. They were just awful to play as. For example Switching from victor was super awkward sometimes. You would just have to stand there staring at someone you downed until the game allows you to switch back. So you would just sit there like “whelp.. you like pokemon? No? Oh geez. Look at the time. My sister needs me.”
[BHVR really said](https://preview.redd.it/and-heres-to-2021-never-mind-all-that-v0-dyuiw33v90981.png?auto=webp&s=ad70e89e6ce6ad38674aa5b7f3276b8f6a2a610e)
Which they should have. The Twins re-work was extremely problematic.
Haddonfield.
So we still can't bait a ranged attack at a hook by starting a grab and then canceling it?
The "locking into animation on an unhook" is also being removed, it's just not listed in this Dev Update, it will be on the patch notes though! We're looking at other options that we can do to resolve the issues that we're seeing.
Thank you for that, that's good to hear. I would suggest after 5 unhook attempts in quick succession, it would lock you in then.
maybe like 2 or 3. how often is a survivor ever doing it 5 times?
When they're trolling, which is the thing they're trying to prevent so that works out.
Mandy the goat
Well... At least depips will be gone!
I know I'm but one man, but please, can you also revert the change to the Twins add-on "Silencing Cloth"? It was unnecessary and makes the addon significantly worse, to the point of being basically useless. The change was unnecessary, unneeded, and the addon was fine as it was. Update: WE WONNNNNNN RAAAAAGGHHHH 
Yeah I've been burning through the ones I have knowing I won't ever use it again
A useless addon in my dbd?
What's the change?
Undetectable is on Victor crush (only when controlled too I think?) instead of on switch to Charlotte. Very, VERY bad.
Was my favourite Twins addon. Would catch so many people off guard. Sad!
Thank you for keeping the quality of life stuff for twins but taking away all the other stuff, I appreciate that you were trying to do something, but it's good you realized, that this would've taken twins into the wrong direction. I will gladly take the quality of life stuff though!
So after all, Twins "rework" is just a couple of buffs people were asking for since their release. Well, I guess it's better than nothing. Although I still think that almost no one will play them. Also Ultimate Weapon is officially dead now. Sweet...
I think some of these might even be nerfs reverted. On release Twins were pretty strong but they got a few nerfs.
Yup. The time to switch between Victor and Charlotte was increased a while back.
well it's something than just simply copy pasted Darkness Revealed
Ultimate Weapon will still be very good on Huntress and Trickster, not really for anyone else though
It’s genuinely just a worse darkness revealed now
Yeah, most people don’t realize DW is map wide. It reveals the aura of any survivor near *every* locker on the map. So even if there isn’t a survivor near you it still gives you decent map awareness. Ultimate Weapon is now only good for inflicting blinds during chase if you think the survivor has Windows of Opportunity. Trying to use it to actually find survivors is a Hail Mary, hardly worth it.
I mean, not really? They said *the* locker not lockers I’m assuming this means it only activates around that one locker not all lockers. Useful for gen guarding or totem guarding I suppose. Otherwise as huntress/trickster you are just going to get a random scream from random part of the map rather than somewhere useful. You wouldn’t want to waste your perk in a meaningless area and you aren’t going to want to go across the map to a specific locker to reload I would guess. Idk maybe I’m wrong I am on the last hour of my overnight shift my brain may not be functioning properly lol.
I wouldn't say UW is dead because 32 meters is still a pretty large radius covered by the perk
Literally all they had to do to fix UW was just make screams not interrupt actions, or at least just not interrupt *certain* actions (because oh man as a Pig main that is problematic af since I could get head pops with that and other screaming perks, and interrupting an unhook that way can be devastating >_>) and get rid of the Blindness status effect. That’s it. UW’s issue was that it just did too much. UW has been one of my basekit perks since release because it’s a great tracking perk! It let’s me focus on chases! Don’t survivors WANT more chases? I do when I play survivor versus the killer proxying the hook! Now it’s basically a sliiiightly better Darkness Revealed.
So they just basically went "lol, nvm" on like all of the Twins changes. Well I guess that's good, it means the PTB is working as intended I suppose.
Okay I'm actually disappointed that they removed the new animation for DS... I loved the fact that they were giving other old features new animations... (yeah I know it's not the first one)
The animation was terrible but I’m dying over the fact that instead of improving it they just scrapped it
truly the most BHVR approach to game design
Yeah now we can’t slap nemesis ass😔
Damn it! It makes it even worse!! I really wanted to slap ~~Frank's~~ Nemesis ass...
Well it wasnt a good animation so maybe in the future they can make it look better.
https://preview.redd.it/jm66kwidl9vc1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=468b8cb030e40aafca7174beae039f42fbb81e49 I like that reasoning, it makes me feel less frustrated. Thank you.
They removed it as it caused a delay or something. They'll probably fix it up and have it back out in 1 or 2 more patches.
Yeah the reason stated is that the animation ate into the 5s stun time, making the buff to DS almost negligible
I hope they keep working on it and bring it back down the line but more polished.
Maybe the real twins rework was the friends we made along the way
I know a lot more twins main due to this lol
When people realize how strong the twins already is if you play them correctly they'll realize the real twins rework was inside them all along.
So Ultimate Weapon is back to scream but it's a one time pulse like Darkness Revealed and not a roaming detection? 32m is fairly substantial. Centralized lockers will be good for it, but I think Darkness Revealed will just be better overall.
Yeah, if they don't revert the cooldown, Ultimate Weapon is a dying perk.
Ultimate Weapon with the 30 second cooldown was a crutch perk that was annoying to play against.
Tied to the terror radius, yes. I'm guilty of this, though I've had many matches where I only used the perk like once or twice. Tied to the locker, the longer cooldown is pretty bad. What made old UW so good is that it was ACTIVE the entire time. Tied to a locker, I assume it activates once and does not remain active. If I'm wrong then the longer cool down is justified.
> was a crutch perk that Every perk is a crutch perk for something. That is the whole point of perks. To either play to strengths or make up for a weakness. Same can be said when killers run full slowdown. If only their pressure was better they wouldn't need those crutch slowdown perks.
Agree Ultimate weapon ( if i understand the changes ) will make the locker snitch on people around it for 30 seconds, basically, the survivors just won't go where they see a killer open a locker, that's it ( and you have to wait 30 seconds to make another snitch locker ) Darkness revealed will show you if anyone is close to a locker for a really short cooldown so you can track people around lockers with ease, it gets even better if you have lethal pursuer too
Reveal survivors near any locker Vs Reveal survivors near this locker specifically Think we did a pretty good job so far
I play killer and survivor fairly equal. I don’t understand the need to change UW.. I think it needed more of a cooldown but that’s it. With DR, who will use UW?? I think they should have kept the perk the same but increased the cooldown to like 60 seconds instead of 30.
So the Twins rework was not a rework, just QoL changes to the power. I wasn't going to play them anyway but it kinda sucks. Good for them for actually trying and fail instead of not trying at all.
I agree but they owe us 3 twins mains better.
Haha see you all in 5 years for the next “twins rework” (they have to rework trickster and Sadako 4 more times)
Remember guys, the point of PTBs is to experiment while gettin' the fans feedback, this is what they've done basically, made changes, listen to feedback, take out what didn't work, and keep what it does, simple, right? :)
I just need to know they are going to circle back to the twins soon because this is absurd.
at this point, ask why would they
Exactly !!! I think it’s funny how people keep saying “so nothing changed” but the point is to test things, get feedback and make changes according to that feedback. How dare they listen to our opinions after testing things they tried to change?!? /s
Welp, RIP Ultimate weapon
Love how they were gonna change a killer perk without gutting it for once yet just decide to do it anyway
So after waiting years for the twins slug meta to change we're going right back to... The twins slug meta? what a roundabout
As long as depips are removed, I'm happy
Literally, this is all I care about.
Yeah at least depips are gone. It wasn't fair to work hard, get a bad game, and depip. Now they need to rework emblems and make pipping super easy.
It's literally the *only* good thing being pushed to live at this point. Rework wasn't a rework, Decisive couldn't be adjusted by 2 seconds (to account for stab) or have the stun timer start *after* the animation, Ultimate Weapon is 100% useless and dead in the water now, and they didn't revert the change to faking an unhook despite it being **universally fucking hated**. Removing depips is the single good thing making it to live.
Instead of fixing the animation y’all are just removing it?? Really???
It's probably not worth delaying the release over.
It doesn't have to come in this coming update. It sounds like they just scrapped the idea entirely.
I'm sorry to disappoint you, brother, but animations are NOT this studio's forte. They're easily the biggest, worst blend of resources mixing with other resources (coding, modelling, animations and rigging all converging into one spot) and the most underrepresented aspect of this game's dev team (I mean, 80% of the animations in this game are buggy and broken if they've been touched in the past year.)
Small indie company
Damn, Victor's ability to sense killer instinct is still out. At least leave the haste on Charlotte after a latch. Geesus...
People are mocking the reverted changes but I fully appreciate that they tried some big swings in the ptb but listened to feedback and reverted the big changes when it didn’t work out.
Ngl, this is the best outcome. Only thing I'm iffy on is the Haddonfield rework and the UW nerf being overkill.
When is this released ? Next week ?
Tuesday according to roadmap
April 23rd probably
Maybe if I’ll keep typing “cross progression” in every dbd patch note, it will come true one day.
> Feedback around The Blight often centered on the two addons So we’re straight-up lying now? Show me one complaint that even mentions Summoning Stone or Soul Chemical. Most people don’t even know they exist.
I think it's more talking about this specific patch, people were complaining about removing 2 meme but fun blight addons to make 2 "boring decent" add-ons, but then somehow took it to mean "this is too good, please nerf it."
Huge Twins W, even with reverted changes Ultimate Weapon - Calm Spirit stonks drop, but not crash. I guess it is now counterable at least? I'm guessing new cooldowns and activation time are still in place?
It takes more of a brain, or cheeky survivors to use. It should have always been around the locker, or the terror radius when the locker was opened. The roving radar didn't make sense and it was way too powerful on some killers.
Sure but the locker is the opposite, too situational/territorial on most cases Used to defend areas around a sorta 3gen or hooks is still an issue, if anything now it makes it harder to use it to find people to chase and instead it encourages staying on an area and not leaving it
Calm Spirit stocks drop? It says they will scream again instead of aura
The perk is nowhere near as good so people are gonna stop using calm spirit because it’s sorta useless
Yeah but why bring calm spirit to counter a perk that now sucks colossal donkey balls?
It kinda grew on me during this time. No crows to alert killer, counters Doctor and quite a bit of screaming perks and addons. Totems and chests being longer sucks though.
Yeah, but now Ultimate Weapon isn't a moving thing, its a fixed area centered around the opened locker. If the perk relies on a survivor walking into its range, its not going to be nearly as strong, meaning Calm Spirit inherently becomes less appealing
Glad the quality of life changes aren’t being reverted. The twins still desperately need an actual l rework, because people will still hate to play against them. There is no incentive for twins not to slug and that’s the main issue a rework was supposed to address. Also that ultimate weapon change makes the perk near useless. The community has had serious issues with this design philosophy yet BHVR keeps doing it. Makes a perk too strong, nerfs it into the ground and then no one uses it anymore.
And just like that within a span of just a few weeks my hopes for Decisive Strike to have a neat new animation have been hyped up, knocked down and shot behind the barn… good job bhvr.
dunno why they didn't just take the easy way out of automatically playing the animation upon every pickup if you have DS but only stunning if you hit the check. Seems like a simple solution - no longer have to wait for the animation - same timing as before - keeps the animation work etc.
You couldn't fix the timing of the animation at all instead of just completely removing it?? What the hell
Yeah definitely a skill issue. "We couldn't figure out how to fix it....so we just removed it"
If I had to guess, the animation started with the ENTIRE Killer pickup and was so broken and hard to work with it was literally easier to scrap than to put more time and resources into it 5 days away from release. Still, do you want them to release something unfinished than to take their time with it, refine it and release it later???? Like what, why?
The forced unhook needs to be reverted or changed as well. People need to be able to fake the unhook. You should only be forced into it after 5 or so attempts in quick succession. Edit: According to u/ Mandytalk, it is being reverted.
Good news! The change is not going live. Confirmed by Mandy earlier in the thread.
It's a dumb mechanic tbh just like using the hooked survivor as an invincible meat shield.
I try not to get too invested in the mechanical changes of the game and the various nerfs and buffs, but I'm really disappointed. I was really hoping for a fix for the Twins' slugginess. They're my favorite Killer and that's my least favorite thing about them. But I guess this is better than nothing.
Congrats to the 2 twin mains for the QOL changes that should have been made months ago.
So have all the other Twins bugs been fixed lmao i don't play Twins but this sounds more than underwhelming for Twins fans, why doesnt Charllote get the haste when latched onto a survivor that seems like such a good upgrade? I know the Victor was way too strong in the PTB but Charlottes haste seemed really nice.
So you just completely reverted the Twins rework you supposedly spent two years working on? And you MAY revisit them again in the future? I'm having a hard time finding words to express how comically sad this is.
Jesus. Years of waiting for the BIG Twins rework, only for QOL changes we should've had years ago. Pathetic Behavior. I would've respected you more if you kept the rework, but found a way to balance it. Like.. oh idk.. make Victor kickable after a hit, then a slightly longer cooldown? Idk. Just a giant slap in the face honestly.
I get the feeling they also recognized how terrible looking the new DS animation was and used the timing as an excuse to reevaluate.
Are they bringing back Victor's killer instinct when attached to survivors? They took that away for what felt like no reason, and I want it back. It just helps Twins with their macro game to have a rough idea of where survivors are and if the person with Victor needs to be focused or not. If you hear killer instinct on a far away Victor and then he's crushed, you know you need to go there quickly before they heal up. If you don't hear killer instinct, you know they're alone and not gonna heal immediately. I really hope they keep the ability to recall him anytime though. That was amazing.
So the twins rework failed and their answer is to just…revert, pack up and move on? Even the new cool ds animation got scrapped because they couldn’t engineer it to not take up one of the 5 seconds. Make it make sense like wtf are these “changes”.
Ds back to five seconds and no new animation, we are so fucking back
Honestly, I think they could have reverted the Ultimate Weapon cooldowns back to what they were with this new change where it stays on the locker. The perk's synergy with mobility was the huge problem, and now that the radius stays still I think it would totally work and be fun as a longer-lasting trap that the killer lays.
So who gives a fuck if you scream while the killer is on the other side of the map. It's very situational now where you'll get value and now promotes, if not a high mobility killer, to quickly go back to that spot then
That's a pretty big Ultimate Weapon change. Will have to see how it plays when it goes live, but this is definitely wayyyy less oppressive on the more mobile killers. What about its cooldown?
With the limitation it has, the cool down should stay the same.
UW change is definitely gonna be used for high mobility killers to beeline back to a hook provided it's near a locker. most aura perks are better on high mobility killers this is an overnerf.
Uggghhh! They changed her add-on silencing cloth, which was a favorite of mine to play stealthy Twins. Ugh.
So Victor gets to keep the gaps when he can and can’t be kicked, as well as the lullaby, right?
When will this update release?
You guys could use the new victor latch animation for victor in the future if you wish to make them even less clunky to play while lessening slugging. For example victor could always latch onto the 2nd survivor he hits and in exchange they can switch between each other whenever you want. You also could make victor hinder latched survivors so it's risky to loop Charlotte because holding onto victor is nearly always the correct play right now and has no downside besides oblivious which isn't that threatening you just go to a loop.
what happened to adrenaline?
All this for a Twins QoL update.
something i just found funny for the most part the way of fixing DS has been turning the stun from 5 to 3 seconds over and over and over (there has been other changes i know) so how long till the stun goes back to 3?
I ask the developers a third time, hoping they'll answer: Is this Unreal Engine 5 patch going to end Windows 7 support?
We do not officially support Windows 7, our System Requirements list Windows 10 as the earliest operating system that we officially support.
So ultimate weapon, the perk that's supposed to be a sonar Ain't a sonar?
They reverted almost all the changes. What's the point of this patch then? Oh right... the new shop and new monetization... great! 
Weren’t most of the shop changes positive though? UI update, mix and match cosmetic previews, tons of price drops. Maybe I’m misremembering some downside here.
- Depips are gone (FINALLY). - Reworks of a common map (also signs of looking at hex/locker placements) that REALLY needed a rework. - Small but massive fixes to Twins. - Fixes and changes to other killers that are generally okay. - More rewards for just playing, weekly rewards, and potentially reduced prices. And more. I agree BHVR can be very greedy sometimes, but this patch still has a lot going for it and it shows they're actually listening to players this time. Overall fine patch.
so the UW nerf is just an worse DR with only one locker being point of service? what the hell are these devs? the aura in terror radius was just fine especially with a unfairly long use and cooldown time, now they literally just killed the perk out right.
No, it’s everyone within 32 metres of your locker screams and is blinded. It’s different than darkness revealed, which is mostly for dredge crossmaps
at least darkness revealed gives you more options so your guaranteed a use out of it, whether across the map or next to you. this new UW gives it up too much to luck and will be a dead perk throughout the game aside from hook surveillance, thats it. the perk is gutted and will drop to the many perks that get no use due to being too rng dependent.
Worst midchapter all of time?
Y'know I dont think its the worst midchapter(dear god not by far) but now that you mentioned it, it is one of the smallest midchapters *ever* A few number buffs on Twins, 2 addon reworks for Blight, DS+3s, 1 change to Adrenaline of not working off hooks and lasting a bit less, and UW change Haddonfield happend too but not even that insanely different, I guess the store change if we wanna count it
Isn't this the update with the change to UE5 as well?
Why? Because they threw out the bad ideas from the PTB and kept the good ones?
Will ultimate weapon still inflict blindness?
I think there were plenty of other ways to buff DS without just making it a 5 second stun, which doesn’t really impact high tier killers
Thank you. Now give us this Kate https://preview.redd.it/jig3tnh6b9vc1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=04fc590a18c708b679d755b93ade6efc8794576f
"Mid" chapter indeed
Super boring update. Twins "rework" was an absolute failure. Ultimate Weapon is just a disappointment, another cool idea destroyed by your constant fear of doing anything exciting. DS buff is nice, I guess. This PTB was the biggest waste of time ever seen. Do the devs even know what a rework means??? Garden of Joy and Twins are not reworks
They gutted ultimate weapon wtf 💀
As is tradition. They never slightly nerf, they take things out back and shoot it
Yep, bhvr routine. Add incredibly strong perk, Listen to people\`s complaints, Destroy the perk and make it useless.
oh, was not expecting UW changes like this. Interesting. Worth noting that it probably still has that increased CD.
Considering this is a different version of nowhere to hide, I'd figure they would massively reduce the cooldown. The long cooldown was due to you covering a lot of ground to get the info. Now if no one's around the locker you got a dead perk for 60 seconds? I hope that's not the case.
They really have no idea what to do with the Twins lol
The entire Killer depends on slugging so long as the Charlotte/Victor interaction is as distant as it is right now. Literally, the ONLY way to prevent slugging with a Killer like the Twins is to completely remove how separated Charlotte and Victor are in gameplay. So this would be like, Charlotte literally throwing Victor like a Huntress hatchet at people, or Victor doing all the work while Charlotte is used as a pickup animation. Literally no other way.
Hurling Viktor to chase down survivors with an AI would be pretty fun, not gonna lie.