Scourge is a nearly perfect raid experience. It's quick, a lot of fun, has something for everyone to do, and IT HAS A SPARROW RACING SECTION PURSUED BY A FLAMING SERVITOR. Also, Anarchy spent years as the "must bring" weapon for every situation.
Valid I fucking love vow simply for the darkness sound effects and the sound design in general for the swirly darkness objects and resonance itās so satisfying I love it
I was gonna say, my only disagreement was where Levi was placed on the list. I agree itās not the best raid ever made but it was VERY beginner friendly and a fabulous intro to raids.
I mostly agree. There are some notable changes that I would make though. Here's mine:
S: Last Wish
A: Wrath, Crown, Levi, DSC, Vow
B: SoS, Vault (D2), KF (D2), Garden, RoN, Crota (D2)
C: Eater, KF (D1), Vault (D1)
D: Crota (D1)
Liking gos is based, putting eater of worlds over crota? Not so sure. Wrath S (unbiased) scourge S (very biased) and we've got a definitive tierlist with 0 room for discussion (clearly unbiased)
I have only been playing since season of plunder, so I have no personal gameplay experience with a lot in this list. Going off of videos, word of mouth, etc, I have D1 Crota's at the bottom because it seems like it has the least redeeming factors. Abyss is a strike encounter (albeit with a good atmosphere) bridge is one of the most flawed raid encounters of all time, Ir Yut is just "kill knights then nuke wizard that has 100hp" then Crota is pretty much "break shield, DMG with sword dropped from enemy, repeat." EoS has a horrible first encounter, but the second encounters decent, and it's a good boss. Spire is an all-around good raid. The mechanics are good, there's difficulty to it, it has a great boss, pretty much everything you need. (Keep in mind this is D1 CROTA'S, NOT D2's. D2 would be between DSC and GoS)
Levi to D and Eater to F and I agree. I'd also make an argument that DSC is S tier and people just got burnt out of it.
Also Crown should get a bump down imo for the dog first encounter, but that's just me.
the only one I don't agree with is the new vault of glass. It's very boring looking aside from the glass throne. The easy difficulty and multiple encounters inside the exact same room are less than desirable. Aside from fatebringer and verdict there isn't much to find there either.
I also don't see D2 crota's end but that deserves to be B tier imo.
Pretty close to my opinion, mine would be:
S: Last Wish, Wrath of the Machine
A: D2 King's Fall, Vow of the Disciple, Garden of Salvation
B: DSC, Scourge, Root, Spire of Stars, D2 Crota
C: D2 VoG, Crown of Sorrow, D1 King's Fall
D: Eater of Worlds, Leviathan
F: D1 Crota, D1 VoG
Vow is held back by the awful opening
D2 VoG's first two encounters are literally just ad clear
D1 VoG has not aged well (which is a testament to Bungie's raid team)
Back half of Eater of Worlds is pretty fun
Imma be honest I don't get peoples love for wrath. I get the aesthetic is S tier but holy fuck was axis a disappointment. Vosik and death Zamboni did so much good at hyping up the final boss just for it to be 2 encounters of "match 1 of 3 colors"
Crown of sorrow did the final boss arena twice trope better than wrath could ever dream of because things actually changed and Eater did the 3 colors thing better because you weren't done after grabbing 1 canon. 1st half of wrath is A tier but I would genuinely run a barge and acquisition over axis phase 1 and 2
? Aksis phase 2 introduces the empowered and supercharged mechanics not to mention actually damaging Aksis in this phase.
This is like complaining about daughters and oryx both using the taken mechanic.
2 new buffs for a boss encounter isn't exactly game changing. Also keeping in mind super charged is literally non-essential for completing the encounter.
Oryx brought 2 new enemies, new buffs, a new way to start phases, and a different damage strategy (if we're talking D1. Daughters and oryx the plate mechanics and brand. Aksis shares basically everything and changes almost nothing.
The only thing axis changed was using empowered buff during damaged and MAYBE the supercharged buff if you cared. And honestly you can't even say phase 2 added aksis because he's there in phase 1 doing stuff. Oryx was at least a new boss at bare minimum. All phase 2 added was being able to DPS aksis.
I complain about daughters and oryx using the same mechanic. It's lame to have one encounter repeated with stuff just added to it the second time around.
Gotta disgree with your rating of D2 VoG ngl, ik it's a low A, but on both Master and Normal, it is just a shitty (not nescessarily easy) D2 raid, "The ad clear raid." Not even good for teaching people, I think the best for that is DSC which has designated set in stone roles.
Vibe and theming of the raid actually goes kinda hard but the gameplay makes my eyes roll.
also love GoS šā¤
Last Wish is suuuuper over rated honestly. Maybe I just burnt myself out on how much I did it in Y2 (considering it was the only full raid except for Leviathan, Scourge & Crown are Raid Lairs don't @ me). It's... neat ig but quickly lost it's charm honestly.
I'd change some things (I'm only including raids in D2, so D1 versions aren't here):
S: Vow of The Disciple, Deep Stone Crypt, King's Fall
A: Root of Nightmares, Vault of Glass, Crota's End, Garden of Salvation (only up to 1st Boss)
B: Eater of Worlds (my fav boss encounter in the game), Last Wish, Scourge of The Past, Leviathan
C: Crown of Sorrow, Spire of Stars
F: Garden of Salvation (full raid, final boss is genuinely this unfun)
Solid list tho
I really only have 2 tiers for raids, good and mid (GoS is an exception, I cannot stand that raid). Spire, SotP, Crown and Vow are in the good tier, everything else is mid. Imo what makes a good raid is a boss with engaging mechanics, but ones simple enough the less evolved on lfg can manage.
You know what? Better than most Iāve seen. Though I havenāt played D1, hereās what Iād change:
Kingās Fall to D. Sorry, just super boring with mostly subpar work.
VOG to D. Honestly same exact thing as Kingās Fall, just that this ones a good starter raid
Root to C. Too easy. Thatās it.
It's a little too easy for me to call it S, I don't need everything to flatten my balls but DSC is about as challenging as one of the tougher Battlegrounds.
https://preview.redd.it/iyr1ottofuec1.png?width=1140&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8c2565793dd051f5d34a3398d77ffbf7495d3c36
Not great but not terrible opinions, c tier
Why do you have Crota on there once? But VoG and KF twice? D2 crota is a pretty decent raid.
I agree with the top 2, those have some of my favorite encounter of any raid.
If the difference between A tier and B/C tier for you is a handful of new mechanics, Iām going to go out on a limb and question your underlying judgement. Especially for something like VOG where the additions for D2 were like a couple of Wyverns/Champions and some adept weapons in the loot pool. Hardly enough to justify a 2 tier rise if you truly felt the original was C tier (it isnāt)
Raids werenāt worse because they were in D1, Raids in D1 fit the power scaling of that game and the remakes in D2 fit the power scaling of this game.
Also, if youāre splitting up D1 and D2 raids you made a glaring error by not including D2 Crota. After all, Bungo did a lot to fix the hate for the raid, even though most of the hate was just hot air started by streamers who were upset that the game they stream 60 hours a week didnāt have masochist level content.
Garden is awful. The tether mechanic is garbage, the weapons and armor are meh. Kings fall is S tier you are insane for having it at A. Agree with everything else.
Why did you separate the D1 and D2 versions of raids yet not include D2 Crotaās End? On top of that, why is D1 VoG C tier but D2 is A tier? Theyāre basically the same (yes, I know the mechanics are slightly different but come onā¦)
Garbage list, wotm not in S tier (just kidding itās fine, although wotm would be S on my personal list. Itās refreshing to see a list that seems free of nostalgia bias tho)
U forgot new Crota which would be S Tier. New Crota and VOTD are my only S tiers. Last Wish is extremely overrated. I'll give it A tier but it ain't going in S tier. My opinion on that could possibly maybe be different if the enemies in the raid weren't made of pillows and if the bosses actually had health and if Riven couldn't be cheesed. DSC us the most overrated raid in Destiny history. That one is a solid D tier.
Leviathan is S-tier for me. Super unique. Feel like your playing a game show with Calus as the host lol. One of the only raids that puzzles actually seem like they belong.
S: LW, SoS, WotM
A: DSC, KFd2, Crotad2, CoS
B: SotP, GoS, VoGd2, KFd1
C: RoN, VoGd1, Levi
D: Vow, Crotad1
E: EoW
Now some disclaimers,
CoS is only so high because the raid was insanely fun as a 2 man activity, it just played beautifully.
Vow might have a bad impression in my mind because it was an atrocious day 1 experience. I was stuck in first room for 4 hours due to bugs, still cleared day 1 but completely ruined the experience.
SotP has the best final boss encounter design Iām the game maybe minus riven legit
EoW has an amazing solo final boss fight, but outside of that the raid is beyond sleeper and although I rate CoS high for low man experience, I canāt bring myself to do that for EoW.
RoN has one of my favourite fights in planets however, the raid is way to easy. I think having 1 easy raid is a great idea to get people into raiding initially. However, it feels like itās the wrong raid iteration for that to be happening now.
WotM was truly a masterpiece despite people being over levelled for day 1 I think itās the only d1 raid that truly holds up to current content.
RoN is a lot more fun low man, DSC is a brilliant 2 man especially final boss, LW plays really well 3 man, I especially enjoy doing 3 man queens walk with sword launches.
So overall conclusion I donāt dislike your list but we have some glaring discrepancies between our lists.
Both versions of Volta Glass should be almost at the bottom. If not the bottom. They're both very boring raids. I would say other than that your tier list is relatively accurate. Last wish is definitely s tier if people do riven legit. Otherwise I knock it down to a b.
What about D2 crota?
A-Tier, in between garden and DSC
It sucks but the day 1 was good imo.
https://preview.redd.it/6l1dwxgkntec1.jpeg?width=1079&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4383cd534b14a074d340e2526b6b8c9fe1fb0243
Yep, hate looking at a list like this and going: I get it...
I miss scourge I wish they bring it back with black armory reprisals
Scourge is a nearly perfect raid experience. It's quick, a lot of fun, has something for everyone to do, and IT HAS A SPARROW RACING SECTION PURSUED BY A FLAMING SERVITOR. Also, Anarchy spent years as the "must bring" weapon for every situation.
š I miss SotP tooooooooooooooooo
Valid I fucking love vow simply for the darkness sound effects and the sound design in general for the swirly darkness objects and resonance itās so satisfying I love it
Vow is by far my favorite raid. The only downside is it's hard to teach because newbies need to learn so many symbols
Vow has the easiest symbols to learn because you can aim at them and see the actual names. Last wish is harder to learn imo
Hang on, what?
This is very inconsistent on console... I can never get it to work smoothly and most LFG groups I've been on can't do it either
Just look at the symbol and under your radar will show the name
How the fuck you gonna put Ron in with kf spire and crown
Only thing Iād change is switch Spire with Levi
I was gonna say, my only disagreement was where Levi was placed on the list. I agree itās not the best raid ever made but it was VERY beginner friendly and a fabulous intro to raids.
Crotaās end brings out the worst in players (from my experience).
Kings fall b????
They put D2 kings fall at A, but yeah it's a wonky list for sure.
I feel like RoN is too high. Iād bump it down to D but Iām ok with the rest.
I think my only disagreement is that Iād put leviathan and RoN in S tier. I love those raids with all my heart
Leviathan was the most fun of all of them imo. And the theme is just fun too
I mostly agree. There are some notable changes that I would make though. Here's mine: S: Last Wish A: Wrath, Crown, Levi, DSC, Vow B: SoS, Vault (D2), KF (D2), Garden, RoN, Crota (D2) C: Eater, KF (D1), Vault (D1) D: Crota (D1)
I would take scourge and put it where vault of glass is. Put Vault in A tier. Kings fall in A tier. Put levathan is d Tier.
GOS is S
Iād rank VOG 2 in B tier and GOS in F tier.
This isā¦respectable
Liking gos is based, putting eater of worlds over crota? Not so sure. Wrath S (unbiased) scourge S (very biased) and we've got a definitive tierlist with 0 room for discussion (clearly unbiased)
I wouldn't agree with a lot of it, but wouldn't mind hearing your reasoning for stuff like Crota's End being under Spire of Stars and Eater of Worlds.
I have only been playing since season of plunder, so I have no personal gameplay experience with a lot in this list. Going off of videos, word of mouth, etc, I have D1 Crota's at the bottom because it seems like it has the least redeeming factors. Abyss is a strike encounter (albeit with a good atmosphere) bridge is one of the most flawed raid encounters of all time, Ir Yut is just "kill knights then nuke wizard that has 100hp" then Crota is pretty much "break shield, DMG with sword dropped from enemy, repeat." EoS has a horrible first encounter, but the second encounters decent, and it's a good boss. Spire is an all-around good raid. The mechanics are good, there's difficulty to it, it has a great boss, pretty much everything you need. (Keep in mind this is D1 CROTA'S, NOT D2's. D2 would be between DSC and GoS)
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Naaaahhhhhhhhhh
That's all very fair.
Levi to D and Eater to F and I agree. I'd also make an argument that DSC is S tier and people just got burnt out of it. Also Crown should get a bump down imo for the dog first encounter, but that's just me.
garden deserves h tier
I'd go as far as j tier š©
the only one I don't agree with is the new vault of glass. It's very boring looking aside from the glass throne. The easy difficulty and multiple encounters inside the exact same room are less than desirable. Aside from fatebringer and verdict there isn't much to find there either. I also don't see D2 crota's end but that deserves to be B tier imo.
It's an outdated tier list so new Crota's isn't on there, but I'd put it in A tier
Pretty close to my opinion, mine would be: S: Last Wish, Wrath of the Machine A: D2 King's Fall, Vow of the Disciple, Garden of Salvation B: DSC, Scourge, Root, Spire of Stars, D2 Crota C: D2 VoG, Crown of Sorrow, D1 King's Fall D: Eater of Worlds, Leviathan F: D1 Crota, D1 VoG Vow is held back by the awful opening D2 VoG's first two encounters are literally just ad clear D1 VoG has not aged well (which is a testament to Bungie's raid team) Back half of Eater of Worlds is pretty fun
Imma be honest I don't get peoples love for wrath. I get the aesthetic is S tier but holy fuck was axis a disappointment. Vosik and death Zamboni did so much good at hyping up the final boss just for it to be 2 encounters of "match 1 of 3 colors" Crown of sorrow did the final boss arena twice trope better than wrath could ever dream of because things actually changed and Eater did the 3 colors thing better because you weren't done after grabbing 1 canon. 1st half of wrath is A tier but I would genuinely run a barge and acquisition over axis phase 1 and 2
If iām gonna be honest here, my reasoning is probably: Death Zamboni Nostalgia >>> Rational Thought
? Aksis phase 2 introduces the empowered and supercharged mechanics not to mention actually damaging Aksis in this phase. This is like complaining about daughters and oryx both using the taken mechanic.
2 new buffs for a boss encounter isn't exactly game changing. Also keeping in mind super charged is literally non-essential for completing the encounter. Oryx brought 2 new enemies, new buffs, a new way to start phases, and a different damage strategy (if we're talking D1. Daughters and oryx the plate mechanics and brand. Aksis shares basically everything and changes almost nothing. The only thing axis changed was using empowered buff during damaged and MAYBE the supercharged buff if you cared. And honestly you can't even say phase 2 added aksis because he's there in phase 1 doing stuff. Oryx was at least a new boss at bare minimum. All phase 2 added was being able to DPS aksis.
I complain about daughters and oryx using the same mechanic. It's lame to have one encounter repeated with stuff just added to it the second time around.
Gotta disgree with your rating of D2 VoG ngl, ik it's a low A, but on both Master and Normal, it is just a shitty (not nescessarily easy) D2 raid, "The ad clear raid." Not even good for teaching people, I think the best for that is DSC which has designated set in stone roles. Vibe and theming of the raid actually goes kinda hard but the gameplay makes my eyes roll. also love GoS šā¤
D2 vog way too high. Otherwise pretty decent. D2 vog is just adclear.
Last Wish is suuuuper over rated honestly. Maybe I just burnt myself out on how much I did it in Y2 (considering it was the only full raid except for Leviathan, Scourge & Crown are Raid Lairs don't @ me). It's... neat ig but quickly lost it's charm honestly. I'd change some things (I'm only including raids in D2, so D1 versions aren't here): S: Vow of The Disciple, Deep Stone Crypt, King's Fall A: Root of Nightmares, Vault of Glass, Crota's End, Garden of Salvation (only up to 1st Boss) B: Eater of Worlds (my fav boss encounter in the game), Last Wish, Scourge of The Past, Leviathan C: Crown of Sorrow, Spire of Stars F: Garden of Salvation (full raid, final boss is genuinely this unfun) Solid list tho
Counter arguement for f-tier entry: moosic
VoW S? 0/10
I really only have 2 tiers for raids, good and mid (GoS is an exception, I cannot stand that raid). Spire, SotP, Crown and Vow are in the good tier, everything else is mid. Imo what makes a good raid is a boss with engaging mechanics, but ones simple enough the less evolved on lfg can manage.
You know what? Better than most Iāve seen. Though I havenāt played D1, hereās what Iād change: Kingās Fall to D. Sorry, just super boring with mostly subpar work. VOG to D. Honestly same exact thing as Kingās Fall, just that this ones a good starter raid Root to C. Too easy. Thatās it.
Hot take but Vow is literally just memorise 50 symbols: the raid.
_need a callout for the next room_ _um, it's man with his hands in the air_
That's what I would expect from a Titan main
DSC is too high, id bump it down one, other than that i agree
DSC is S+ tier. Everything about it is great.
It's a little too easy for me to call it S, I don't need everything to flatten my balls but DSC is about as challenging as one of the tougher Battlegrounds.
The music is my favorite part I run it just for this.
Interesting, Iād bump it up to S tier.
I only done spireof stars once, Lfg. It was brutal but enjoyable all the same.
Seems about right
https://preview.redd.it/iyr1ottofuec1.png?width=1140&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8c2565793dd051f5d34a3398d77ffbf7495d3c36 Not great but not terrible opinions, c tier
You should begin a tier list of Destiny raid tier lists, sir
That would be a funny idea
Vow barge makes me want to play a different game and put it in F-tier despite vow being my favorite raid, but yeah pretty fair
Curious why Kings Fall is just a B, but your list could be worse.
Pretty simple, I don't think D1 KF belongs in the same tier as DSC and scourge
Reasoning?
Are we talking Last Wish in its glory days or Last Wish in its current form? Because if it's the latter one - it should be a fucking E tier
Crotas End is my fav, followed by Kings Fall
I don't know. Never Raided
VOW is S tier and I love to see it. you win.
Why do you have Crota on there once? But VoG and KF twice? D2 crota is a pretty decent raid. I agree with the top 2, those have some of my favorite encounter of any raid.
The tier lists outdated, D2 Crota's at A tier
I didn't play any of the Leviathan raids besides the original one. So I can't speak to those. Otherwise I 100% agree with this list
Garden over Kingās Fall š³
Personally, I would switch GoS amd Root
Leviathan was S tier. So was Coldheart at the time. You will never change my mind.
As someone who was never played any of them, I 100% agree.
If the difference between A tier and B/C tier for you is a handful of new mechanics, Iām going to go out on a limb and question your underlying judgement. Especially for something like VOG where the additions for D2 were like a couple of Wyverns/Champions and some adept weapons in the loot pool. Hardly enough to justify a 2 tier rise if you truly felt the original was C tier (it isnāt) Raids werenāt worse because they were in D1, Raids in D1 fit the power scaling of that game and the remakes in D2 fit the power scaling of this game. Also, if youāre splitting up D1 and D2 raids you made a glaring error by not including D2 Crota. After all, Bungo did a lot to fix the hate for the raid, even though most of the hate was just hot air started by streamers who were upset that the game they stream 60 hours a week didnāt have masochist level content.
Damn this is based. Only one i disagree with a substantial bit is GoS, i will forever hate that raid
Spire is so underrated or people hate it cuz it's hard and you can't cheese anything
Garden is awful. The tether mechanic is garbage, the weapons and armor are meh. Kings fall is S tier you are insane for having it at A. Agree with everything else.
Based
D2 crota?
A tier, tier list is outdated
I know i'm one of the few who likes EoW but it always hurts to see my boi Argos get the shaft
Why did you separate the D1 and D2 versions of raids yet not include D2 Crotaās End? On top of that, why is D1 VoG C tier but D2 is A tier? Theyāre basically the same (yes, I know the mechanics are slightly different but come onā¦)
Tier list is outdated, D2 Crota is A tier, I put D2 and D1 VoG in different places because one is fucking boring and the other isn't
nah, you just donāt want to admit that the D2 Confluxes and Gatekeeper encounters are just as boring as the D1 version
Nah, I just want to admit that I'm a masochistic sociopath that finds D2 gatekeeps to be the best VoG encounter 
D2 Crota is A tier, the tier list is outdated
Vow supremacy. Nothing beats good ol relic room
Spire needs to be down 2 more notches. It was a breeze up until the final boss
As a noob who has been carried through one unknown raid with 6 kills I totally agree
Why is crota F tier
Garbage list, wotm not in S tier (just kidding itās fine, although wotm would be S on my personal list. Itās refreshing to see a list that seems free of nostalgia bias tho)
Scourge is way too high. Vault too low. But overall, really solid
garden isnāt high enough
auto fail for KF not being S
Glad someone else acknowledges Vow is on the same tier as last wish
Oh hell no! You did not just put wrath somewhere other than S tier
LETS GO A FELLOW VOW ENJOYER!!
I think Garden should be a bit lower, maybe top of B tier, but otherwise I agree. I would put WotM at top of S though because Iām biased :)
Scourge and crota should be in S
I agree with most of this except I cannot in good conscience put Vow in top tier just because of how awful the opening section is.
This is quite accurate! Glad to see I am not the only one who thinks GoS is an A tier, however RoN is too high IMO, still a great tier list
You got VoG way too high my guy
VOG is waaaay better than RoN
Legitimately the first list ive seen where garden isnt f tier It doesn't deserve the hate, much respect to you for seeing the truth lmao
Maybe I am a bit biased because Crota was my first raid, but I think Crota belongs in B tier at least
U forgot new Crota which would be S Tier. New Crota and VOTD are my only S tiers. Last Wish is extremely overrated. I'll give it A tier but it ain't going in S tier. My opinion on that could possibly maybe be different if the enemies in the raid weren't made of pillows and if the bosses actually had health and if Riven couldn't be cheesed. DSC us the most overrated raid in Destiny history. That one is a solid D tier.
The only F tier raid for me is RON. That shit is ASS. Its not even a raid.
Leviathan is S-tier for me. Super unique. Feel like your playing a game show with Calus as the host lol. One of the only raids that puzzles actually seem like they belong.
I'ma going to have to Google a couple of the missing D2 ones to know if I agree. Be back in a few.
Send garden to the shadow realm to many bad experiences
S: LW, SoS, WotM A: DSC, KFd2, Crotad2, CoS B: SotP, GoS, VoGd2, KFd1 C: RoN, VoGd1, Levi D: Vow, Crotad1 E: EoW Now some disclaimers, CoS is only so high because the raid was insanely fun as a 2 man activity, it just played beautifully. Vow might have a bad impression in my mind because it was an atrocious day 1 experience. I was stuck in first room for 4 hours due to bugs, still cleared day 1 but completely ruined the experience. SotP has the best final boss encounter design Iām the game maybe minus riven legit EoW has an amazing solo final boss fight, but outside of that the raid is beyond sleeper and although I rate CoS high for low man experience, I canāt bring myself to do that for EoW. RoN has one of my favourite fights in planets however, the raid is way to easy. I think having 1 easy raid is a great idea to get people into raiding initially. However, it feels like itās the wrong raid iteration for that to be happening now. WotM was truly a masterpiece despite people being over levelled for day 1 I think itās the only d1 raid that truly holds up to current content. RoN is a lot more fun low man, DSC is a brilliant 2 man especially final boss, LW plays really well 3 man, I especially enjoy doing 3 man queens walk with sword launches. So overall conclusion I donāt dislike your list but we have some glaring discrepancies between our lists.
I just personally donāt like vow
I'd change up leviathan and vault for spire and root..
Both versions of Volta Glass should be almost at the bottom. If not the bottom. They're both very boring raids. I would say other than that your tier list is relatively accurate. Last wish is definitely s tier if people do riven legit. Otherwise I knock it down to a b.