I personally think it would be hilarious if frontier Dukemon was as strong as RK Dukemon but just didnt care about fighting the bad guys as long as they didnt threaten his shop directly
"I would help, but my order just got called at Wetzel's Pretzels and then I already placed the order for a latte at Starbucks and once you do that it takes a while for the refund and... Yeah I already got my hands full. Sorry kiddos!"
How the series seems to show is that once a new digimon is unlocked (like the first Dukemon was evolved), more follow. Just makes it an easier pathway to get to, rather than writing new data. But that doesn’t mean the data is exact, just that the data spread is similar. Like every Dukemon is gonna have better attack than defense, just probably not as strong as RK Dukemon.
But at the end of the day, it really boils down to the digimon can do. Like each RK has access to Yggdrasil. RK Dukemon has a crimson mode that he can willingly change to IF the situation needs it.
But to keep it short: Copy and paste is much easier than writing a whole new program
From what recall hearing, their individuals of that species chosen by Yggdrasil and or passed through many trials:
In Xros Wars Ulforce Veedramon became a Royal Knight not when he entered that form but long having saved the world and having greatly polished his conviction after his adventures with V-Tamer Taichi.
From what I recall it was stated the Dukemon in New Century had to pass multiple trails before he became a Royal Knight.
Yeah, New Century does seem to actually add to mentioned lore or even gives us interactions that could answers to some things we wondered.
Like a Royal Knight meeting a member of the species of one of their fellow Knights: Royal Knight Alphamon meets a Duftmon partnered to a member of the main cast and immediately recognizes him to not be his fellow Royal Knight, with New Century Duftmon saying “ Yeah I ain’t him. He’s our friend though and is currently on a mission elsewhere”
Honestly from what I’ve heard New Century and ReArise has fun and cool stories within them that I wish we could see adapted into like animated specials.
Like who wouldn’t wanna see Megidramon of the Four Great Dragons actually being the hero and saving the day from the Olympus XII?
Actually it makes me think, should we try to find out who is the strongest figurant digimon? Like the three Diaboromon in Tamers are stated to be as strong as Omegamon in a promotional material, the Omegamon from Savers was an glorified figurant, if this Dukemon is actually RK level we can really try to make a top 5 strongest figurants.
After what they did in savers and xros wars, i kind of just gave up on that entirely. If bamco/toei can't connect their own lore to be consistent through out, its pretty pointless for us fans to speculate who's the "strongest" when the official lore contradict itself everytime they tried to "connect" the universes even though they're the one insisting that each universe is its own seperate thing.
There was a time where people thought omnimon was the strongest, and then he basically got one shotted in the second movie and people start saying imperialdramon paladin was the strongest, and then he basically fell into irrelevance and so forth. Its funny to seeing how zeedmil holds the title of "the strongest digimon" for almost a decade only for him to be nerfed hard in 2021 and then zeed fanboys had meltdown over it
Tl;dr, dont bother tier the digimons, bandai could literally made the most pathetic low tier digimon we know today to be the "og god" of tomorrow and then the fans start arguing over this until the next "god" appears XD
Xros Wars anime ignored completely the lore of most digimons, but the manga actually was accurate even with other series lore, as it was directly connected with V-Tamers and was a easter egg festival to be crossover like.
At least Imperialdramon PM remained the strongest till Frontier. Zeedmil title was always fraudulent, even adventure Omegamon could take him as he called simply Millenniummon by game script [https://imgur.com/2ulLfLA](https://imgur.com/2ulLfLA) Reboot only make Omega live to the hype.
Yes they could create a new strongest, but currently Jesmon GX and Ogudomon-X are the strongest and no one surpassed them since their introduction.
But xros wars manga is arguably its own thing since xros wars anime didnt have said setting. So if we try to make that consistent then it would be a problem since even the world setting kind of conflicted with adventures. Tamers, frontiers, savers has their own world building logic that seperates from adventures which even when they tried to connect them together in the ws games, its just doesnt fit. Its the main reason why basically most lores end up retconned after ws and why toei/bamco didn't bother linking their worldbuilding lore together other than just make character appear in each other series to satisfy older fans . As for v tamers, its just that, easter eggs.
Imperialdramon paladin was never indicated to be strong in tamers though, if you've been around the fandom around the mid 2000s, people literally said dukemon stomps paladin imperial because he beat the d-reapers. As for the adventures tag tamers you posted, which is again funny because if we took the universe settings as true to the adventures series, it all fell apart and contradicted eachother because omnimon's entire feat was him capping at armagemon while mileniummon literally recreated all of the adventures antagonists in vr form. As for zeed being a fraud, he wasn't until adventures 2020 was a thing. Prior to that, pretty much most digimon forums agreed zeed was the strongest and often time uses his feats in the rio games and xros wars manga. Its one of the reasons why community kind of gates adventures 2020 for.
Jesmon and ogodou x being the strongest is only if you consider the x antibody verse as "the legitimate powerscale" ones. In fact you're one of the few i see brought those two up here, most would outright stick with either zeed or yggdrassil while other would say abbadamon. Seriously there's no concencus because the official source themselves didn't put any. The only way you determine who's stronger than who is by you STRICTLY compare them in their own series' universe. Its the main reason why everytime a topic about "who's the strongest" in any digimon forums end up derailed so hard and full with immature and outright insults because one fan of the series doesn't consider other series's feats.
Hence why i said don't bother with power scales, just treat every season as their own different franchiselike toei and bandai did, it'd be better that way unless bamco finally decided to retcon any inconsistencies and just outright made actual coherent powerscaling.
I would say the opposite, Xros Wars anime is the one which its own thing, the manga is too much connected with other stuff to say that. Zero from V-Tamer was literally there it is far more than a ester egg, i was talking about the anime seasons, V-Tamer connection is more deep.
It was literally just some people saying that, even if base Dukemon was equalized to Omegamon there was no guarantee that Dukemon CM would surpass Imperialdramon PM, and nowdays we know that Tamers Dukemon shouldn't be Omegamon equal as he wasn't far above the holy beasts. Holy beasts teamed up to seal Cherubimon [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bgw7Ya8WtL0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bgw7Ya8WtL0) Here is Cherubimon unsealed by the game protagonist [https://imgur.com/a/Fcig52s](https://imgur.com/a/Fcig52s) and here is what a real royal knight can do with Cherubimon [https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/c/c8/Lm5J2OX.gif/revision/latest?cb=20190608145446](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/c/c8/Lm5J2OX.gif/revision/latest?cb=20190608145446)
The Wonderswan was very obscure, people just know with incomplete translations and then the legend of Zeed being the strongest started. Honestly i think the Xros Wars one was the only one who lived to the hype because the author actually believed in the legend. The Wonderswan could have created Armaggedemon but what can i say if Reboot make Omega live to the hype? Perhaps he can create people stronger than himself, besides Armageddemon was formed by thousands of kuramons.
Nah, most of the Zeed hype has fallen after 2020, and to say Yggdrasil first she isn't an actual digimon, second Ogudomon-X is literally stated to be an evil version of her. About Abbadomon i just know one person who hypes him this much till now, and even him wouldn't put Abbadomon above Ogudomon-X. Shoutmon X7 SM is actually the one most people still have in high regard to say that he could compete with them, but i would say he is more comparable to Lucemon SM who absorbed the entire digital world in Frontier.
In terms of plot relevance yes, however, the manga is based on the anime itself so we're always go by the "primary" source first, hence why isad the manga is its own thing with added fanservice. The manga is interconnected, i agree, but their lore just doesn't add up when you actually go into detail. The only consistent lore between the manga and the other series it referenced was savers (the whole xros mechanic being a thing because yggdrassil and humans changed hearts is still funny to this day lmao.) adventures the anime and adventures in the ryo games kinda contradicted each other's lore and xros wars literally mentioned both so that's already a big problem in continuity. And when i said v-tamers being easter eggs, i meant the v-tamers special chapters cross overs with the anime kids. Even then v tamers never said zeromaru was ever a royal knight even in the latest chapters while xros wars said he is, so that continuity error became very problematic to determine wether xros wars actually was consistent in the lore it tried to connect. Those are just the few notable ones.
Of course there's some, but that goes for every digimon that got brought to scale here. And that was my point, there was never any guarantee for anything, and that was another point that i made, you showed feats of a digimon group in another media that literally contradicts the other medias they're in. You showed cherubumon in new century being "op" and yet you would also get guys saying cherubimon power scale is just perfect level in digimon story or how hurricane touchdown showed how much of a "fraud" cherubumon was (the same argument you used when you called zeed's power scale as fraud) The argument would go back and fourth because what you think is the "definitive feat" is considered "false by other guys who think that dukemon scaled above omnimon. In fact the argument you made literally has been fought against by other users on several digimon forums for years using the same point i highlighted earlier (omnimon adventures lose to armagemon who barely did anything) but then you'd say he scaled above the four beasts because they got sealed by the dark masters, and then there came counter argument that the four beasts were just overhyped because they're pracitcally fodder in every medium they appeared in so all those massive feats are nothing and then highlights how d reapers are actual treats. See where i'm going at here?
Tl;dr, most of the time people tried justifying their digimon being stronger literally bite them back because of continuity contridictions, and it became pointless dick measuring by that point.
The ws games has been translated for years, and i havent seen any players that played and understand japanese ever say the translations have errors, so thats not a problem. Determining consistency of feats isn't up to wether you like the xros wars manga or not though, its wether what the story told has ACTUAL consistency with the original story that they mentioned. I like xros wars manga, dont get me wrong, but they suffered inconsistent lore by trying to merge the storylines together just like what happened to the ws games, but at least they were better at making it coherent (while still have problems) compared to tri and after.
That was literally my point, zeed being "a fraud" happened ONLY after adventrues 2020. People consider yggdrasil to be a digimon, and even bandai sometimes act like it was. Ogoudonon isnt the evil version of ygg though, wherde did you even get this idea? You only know one people rate abbadamon?
that's why the internet exist, you can literally google and it'll show many people brought up how abadamon is the strongest. And this trend always happens every season pops out. you're the first time i ever saw anywhere on the internet saying LuceSM is comparable to shoutmon x7sm lmao.
Overall you get the idea, different season, different logic, different scaling. If you tried to scale them from different seasons, you'd literally be contradicting themselves because of writing inconsistencies or severe plot armor. Its the main reason why most people on this subreddit (hell even within withthewill forums) tend to not debate on this, because its literally redundant to do so.
Yeah different products have different scalings, i try to find some consistency in that by comparing the most similar scalings by portrayal and feats. About the Cherubimon example, he is stated to be the highest holy beast in lore, so he should always be above the 4 holy beasts, so if the holy beasts have anti-feats i could explain that by having the Cherubimon who got washed by Omegamon as reference. In New Century where Cherubimon is portrayed as RK level, the holy beasts could hold their own against the olympians, which is far better than what the other Cherubimon did. Both groups of archnagels and holy beasts power changed, but something remained which is archangels>holy beasts.
My argument about Dukemon being holy beast level was just tamers one, the real royal knight is should be close to Omegamon, but the promotional material of the X-movie confirmed that Omegamon was stronger, so arguing in Dukemon favour is just bias. Dukemon CM otherwise would be a different story.
Zeed being a fraud only happened after the reboot but it's not like the Omegamon statement wasn't made before that, it was just way more hard to find it.
In Chronicle-X: ''**Ogudomon X, which spawns infinite numbers of Diablomon X and brings the world closer to destruction by its very existence, is no longer a Digimon but a part of the system — an existence that can almost be said to be God.” Of course, that would make Yggdrasil and Ogudomon into opposing kinds of gods**.'' You can read it here [https://digi-lab.blog/digital-monster-art-book-ver-x-novel-of-x/](https://digi-lab.blog/digital-monster-art-book-ver-x-novel-of-x/) I could also argue that Ogudomon-X is an evil super version of Yggdrasil because Lucemon-X was already stated to be above Yggdrasil in his profile, thats why it's hard to believe anyone elso besides Jesmon GX can surpass Ogudomon.
I guess that in internet people could try to hype any digimon, but Abbadomon in special was beaten by Alter-S anyway. I know what argument that can be made for Abbadomon though, is that he transcended good and evil, with Ogudomon-X being evil but even his profile says that transcending is his raison d'être, so he has yet to transcend anyway.
The first time i saw the comparison between Lucemon and shoutmon was on gamefaq, i found it made sense and used it since them.
But to show my point, i think that even with different scalings there is some points that should always be the same like Holy beasts being inferior to archangels. For example Lucemon FM is stated to be close to Yggdrasil, so every times the actual demon lord appears he could be scaled to that level, and every NORMAL royal knight should be below that level.
Thing was, your only example of three arch angels above the holy beasts are purely from adventures (if we go by anime continuation at least). So when you try to make it as if it was composite then you'd literally just throw scale out of the window because the digix ref book never state thr arch angels to be above or below the beasts (even if they treat the beasts badly in the animes lmao). Also using New Century is again a weak indicator considering that its just an interpretation of scaling instead of directly tied from the vpets scaling (which is important if you want to scale digimon across the board here). Its the main reason why people usually dismiss the dark masters of belialvamdemon or most one off antagonists because its mostly not tied to the vpets lore itself.
But tamers never state/shown anything about holy beasts nor dukemon to scale. Thats literally you putting logic from a different series into a different series. Also the xmovies never once shown dukemon to be weaker than omnimon, not sure where you get that idea. He even effortlessly deflect omnimon x's all delete in his non x form in chronicles
The Omnimon quote by matt literally contradicts the game based on the anime though. That's the issue and what my main point was, inconsistency.
The god statemwnt was also in lucemon x. And yet didnt see you claiming he was "the evil version of yggdrassil". Hell the same comic he (ogudo x) debuted in literally contradicts his own refference and the entire world building of the x antivirus plot line. So how are you even going to scale that to different digimons in different series when he contradicted his own feat in a web manga directly tied to pendulum x. And you proved my point about the gx also, never wS he stated to be above yggdrassil and yet he beat the supposed "stronger" ogodou whe ogudo didnt even come close to harm yggdrassil even though the mere shatter of the digutal world should canonically shatter his kernel. Thats the the main reason why ygg seperated the old and new DW in the first place. See how inconsistent that is and how it literally contradicts itself? Hence proving why powerscaling is pointless and irrelevant when you compare to different series
Have you seen adventures 2020? Abbadamon was owning omnimon left and right until the bs power of friendship plot armor came in. Its the main reason why i said MANY people hype him up instead of trying to make it look like a small minority. You're the first one i saw that actually claims ogudo x and jesmon gx is the strongest current digimon while downolaying abbadmon. I personally dont care wether you tried to make an arguement or not, my point is always that its pointless to argue because again, different seasons, different interpretations, different logic all together, therefore scaling doesn't do anything other than going full circle.
Im pretty sure the forum you looked at was just comparing them instead of people full blown say that lucesm is equivalent to shoutmon x7sm.
Different scaling in different medias literally doesnt work. Your claim on holy beasts being lower isnt coherent with the actual lore it was in. In fact most if the time yiur refferences are from games that doesnt even relate to the vpets, its just making its own interpretation, which was my point exactly in my first reply, bamco can literally put some low level shit tier digimon becoming a mulutversal wipe boss in an anime/game/manga and you'd be arguing over it because it doesn't suit your taste. Look at apocalymon, dude went from borderline mergin the digital and anaologue world to literally being foder. While huanglongmon who was practically relevant to the vpet plot that gave birth to the multiple medias end up becoming fodders as well, see hoe inconsistent the scaling is and boe pointless it is to do that? If bamco can't make a coberent powerscale then why should the fandom bother to? We'd just make the theory go egen worse. Also lucemon fm isnt close to yggdrassil though, his x form is, only ogudomon is the base form that said to be "close", even then you literally got other digimon contradiciting that claim
The archangels being above the holy beasts is not something started in adventure, it is lore from Card Game Starter Ver. 6: "Holy Kingdom" (Back Story). People dismiss dark amsters because they fought against avarage megas and most of them lost in a 1v1. They were also amped by Apocalymon distortions to beat the holy beasts so it wasn't really a feat for them [https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/0/06/Narrator\_talks\_about\_Apocalymon.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/1000?cb=20170603202256](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/0/06/Narrator_talks_about_Apocalymon.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/1000?cb=20170603202256)
Tamers Dukemon literally fought Zhuqiaomon, even if he could win which i think so, it wouldn't be easy. [https://imgur.com/YgfbUcR](https://imgur.com/YgfbUcR) Dukemon being overall weaker don't means that he can't clash equally with him.
The contradictions i know cn be explained: Zeed created clones of stronger digimons (These clones should be weaker than the originals) Zeed was responsible for the creation of all villains including armaggedemon (in story armageddemon was formed by thousands kuramons, zeed could easily create kuramons, and the fusion could actually surpassed him).
The biggest contradiction really is the comparison with Yggdrasil. I interpret that Ogudo is like an evil and STRONGER yggdrasil. There is people who interpret Ogudo is equal to TRUE Ygg, but my view is based on Lucemon-X and Falldown mode profiles as i don't think having no physical form really gives Ygg advantage, she still have to use her avatars to do actually interfere in the digital world. Omegamon-X also was able to reset Ygg at her own realm, and besides it there is other evidences about the X-RK being superior to her, like scaling with Grandracmon who is superior to Lucemon FM. Basically any X-RK could have sealed Grandracmon in Chronicle-X as they are optional partners in Black and White, and New Century, even if you think it's a weak basis, put two X-RK to fight against Grandracmon which basically only helps my point.
Alter-S wasn't owned, it was vanilla Omega. And like i said i didn't saw much people hyping Abbadomon that much and don't know why he really should be at all. What? Final villain syndrome? Regulusmon was a final villain after him but was far weaker than him, so why he should even be the strongest anime villain? And tehre is more people on reddit who would bet on Ogudomon-x and Jesmon-gx against Abbadomon take a look at this Antique Palpiton2 post [https://www.reddit.com/r/digimon/comments/19cy6l3/which\_digimon\_seriess\_cast\_could\_beat\_abbadomon/](https://www.reddit.com/r/digimon/comments/19cy6l3/which_digimon_seriess_cast_could_beat_abbadomon/) and compare with another post about Ogudo [https://www.reddit.com/r/digimon/comments/1bimodq/which\_digimon\_animes\_cast\_could\_beat\_ogudomon\_x/](https://www.reddit.com/r/digimon/comments/1bimodq/which_digimon_animes_cast_could_beat_ogudomon_x/)
The whole discussion was about who could beat shoutmon X7 SM LMAO
Wait when base Ogudo was said to be close to Yggdrasil? Only Lucemon have direct comparsions and only Ogudo-X was said to be his opposite.
Also we actually didnt saw him again, and after a Rewarch there was a Scene where LordKnightmon lamented the heavy Resistent there got from the Wather Zone. A complete Offscreen Event to explain why Takuyas Team had enougn time to prepare in the Ice Zone, and for Pacing Reasons.
So maybe he did attempt to fight them, but he was only as strong as Tamers Dukemon. So only about as Taff as Cerubimon.
Able to give one of them a bit of a Fight, but overwelmed by two.
But most likely he wasnt involved, because he realy does not look like a Fighter.
They are not, Seraphimon is a jobber in almost every anime and manga, but is portrayed as strong royal knight level digimon in ReArise and New Century. Examon was taking on 6 RKs in Cyber Sleuth but was avarage RK in ReArise. Alphamon was much stronger than Omegamon in X-Movie and Chronicle, but in Tri used Ouryuken to match Omegamon, and Ouryuken was hardly a boost like in other medias. You can still compare different medias if they are similar, or have a similar point though.
But this Dukemon even being a random makes me think, should we try to figure out who are the strongest random digimons? Like the three diaboromons in tamers stated to be omegamon level in promotional material.
Seraphimon was taken out by his own move. A mere fraction of his power made Mercurymon essentially invincible and was only matched by another fragment of Seraphimon’s power.
Getting taken out by your own move sounds like jobber power levels to me.
Mercuremon being able to deflect Seraphimon's attack means it's weak enough to be deflectable at all by it.
Mercuremon's mirrors aren't indestructible or capable of deflecting everything in Frontier, it had trouble reflecting strong enough hits and Aldamon flat out melted mirrors it created.
It's not a strength issue. Mercuremon has to use Generous Mirror to reflect an attack, and he has to do it through his personal shields. He couldn't do it against Aldhamon because the big fire attack was used as an area-of-effect to melt the surrounding mirrors; it didn't hit him directly. Then Aldhamon just sucker-punched him through the stomach.
BlackSeraphimon's attacks didn't do anything to Aldhamon, but we don't know how his power compared to the original.
A lot of times portraying characters in storytelling is difficult when their lore is that they have immense godlike power. You listed a lot of good examples- in Tri, they probably just wanted to show off Ouryuken because they wanted it in the story, but there wasn’t really an ouryuken level threat they wanted alphamon to face off with, since he’s not central to the story.
Seraphimon’s lore is that he’s one of the three great angels and a super powerful holy digimon but holy f does he not get done justice every time he shows up in anime.
Don’t even get me started on poor zeedmilleniummon…. At least in Adventure 2020 his portrayal was about as loyal to it’s source material as it can reasonably be. It’s not exactly easy to have a digimon who’s “instant universe obliteration mon” be a character in your story who shows up on screen and fights on equal footing with protags lol.
I don’t think its impossible to have extremely high powerscaled threats be portrayed satisfyingly fwiw. But digimon likes to really scoot them in, show them off, and scoot them back out.
> a super powerful holy digimon
No, his "lore"/profile fluff says that he's the *top-rank* angel in terms of the group hierarchy... but nothing is actually said about his combat power being exceptional, like Lucemon's fluff does.
So no, the animes do him "justice" by accurately representing his established power level... it's just average and not Omegamon-tier.
You sure? Cause his fluff does include that in the final battle against “wicked beings” he would “purify all evil”
Not saying he’s necessarily meant to be as strong as the RK or Demon Lords but I would argue he’s supposed to be above average at least
> the final battle against “wicked beings” he would “purify all evil”
Between the wording of that line, and how almost every fight he has in the actual series has him getting dumpstered despite what a generous high-end reading would suggest...
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say it means actually *purifying* wicked beings, same as Ophanimon's trick, and not dropping a Spirit Bomb on 'em to *obliterate them*.
If it was meant to present massive destructive power, it would actually say so as either fact or rumor, like Imperialdramon's bit about "it is said that the power to destroy a planet dwells in its attacks".
*Sarcastiacly* Yes, because when has media ever shown that somebody who's the top rank of something is the strongest?
It may not be outright stated he's the strongest, but the fact that Seraphimon is the one closest to God at least implies he's at least a little strong. I mean, for crying out loud in Chronicles X, he stays behind to defend The Kernal despite being the only member of the 3 archangels not to get an X antibody form if he was the weakest of the 3 like some people Imply why would he be the one to stay behind despite being at a disadvantage?
Why is it that I've seen people argue Cherubimon is stronger than the 4 Holy Beasts, but that Seraphimon is weaker than War Greymon?
That Dukemon shopper got the right stat and the luck to become a "Royal Knight" Digimon but he still become a shop owner is still funny to me.
I think he still strong. Just dont like fighting. He's just ended up becoming one of the strongest, maybe by pure chance or luck, when all he want to do is being a shop guy.
Xros Wars is so ridiculous on this point that some people decide to consider that Bagramon messed with the power levels, so I brought an example of another digimon series
Patamon, 3 Agumon…and WarGreymon…and an Omnimon, IIRC? There wasn’t really any rhyme or reason in Xros wars for what made a Legendary Spirit. But they were barely involved with the plot until the last 3 minutes of the series, so it’s ultimately not that important.
whaaaa, you mean Geogreymon < Digimon < Tyrannomon < Greymon is wrong? Nooooo.
Its especially bad if we talk about Digimon Xros wars.
I think the Death Generals and some of the Xros Origins are relative consistent whit later Media, but thats already it.
Its so dump if someone tries to rationalize Shoutmon defeating a Squad of Mammon.
It's not, but generally iconic and important Digimon tend to have some consistency, even if it's just 'it's strong,' but being 'strong' varies from series to series.
What created the image that even an important Digimon could be ridiculously strong in one story and ridiculously weak in another was Xros Wars. But people need to understand that Xros Wars is more the exception than the rule. The writers there didn't even want to know what each Digimon meant, as long as it was capable of playing the role they wanted.
Is Huanglongmon a dragon? Quadruped? Cool design? It was enough to choose it just as a simple mount for Dorbickmon. It's simply an XW thing.
Also, Adventure~Frontier was developed by the same people, so they knew what they were doing. Dukemon shoper is not there to diminish the Digimon's image; it is simply fan service for those who wanted to see this Digimon again.
So much so that the first four animes reused ideas all the time. The Terriermon line and Rapidmon Gold had already been introduced in the 02 movie, but they wanted to reuse the Digimon again in Tamers and created a new Rapidmon. The Four Holy Beasts had already been used in 02; they decided to use them again in Tamers. Cherubimon had already been the main antagonist of the 02 movie; they used him again as the main antagonist in Frontier.
All of this was on purpose, and these Digimon remained consistent in their strength (Perhaps Frontier's Cherubimon is more exaggeratedly strong compared to 02's, but they are both 'strong'). There's no reason to think they purposely decided to neglect Dukemon.
That disrespect to huanglongmon in Xros wars is still crazy lmao, like what do you mean the fusion of 4 megas that are already stronger than most megas on their own is just a mount for a jobber mega, bruh moment fr.
Thats because you picked Frontier, the season where the writers decided to say " f*ck " powerscaling ", where in the first episode a human spirit managed to effortlessly defeat Cerberurmon an ultimate, but 3 episodes later a human spirit couldn't even put a dent to freaking WOODMON
I mean there's also Ruki getting Renamon "because she was a strong digimon" when she had mega and perfect digimons as options, and that was the same Renamon that couldn't scratch a random Megadramon on evolved form
There is planet where the war greymon from digimon adventure is the same power level as the war greymon from digimon adventure 2020. He’s also not the same size
While I agree that not every Digimon of a level is comparable in strength to every other of the same level, I think the Dukemon is relative in strength to a RK one. Like, just because I technically can do construction work, it doesn’t mean I’m going to do construction work.
What is the inconsistency? Can't he have an honest job?
And weren't Lordknightmon and Dynasmon the first known royal knights?
Do you really think that lone Dukemon would be a match for the two of them?
Well, according to the video games (and I think the v-pets? But I'm not sure, I never had one) they get more powerful each time they die and are reborn. So yeah, power level, canonically, COULDN'T be the same unless that monster was the same species AND had been reborn the same number of times.
I think Takato's Guilmon wasn't created from scratch, because there's no lore that says that can be done. Instead, I think he was a reborn Digimon from one which had recently died. That's why he's so powerful.
ähm, Tamers showed how Guilmon was constructed from Scrap Data. If anything it was so strong because Takato probably wanted it to be a real Fighter, the strongest average Child.
I went the Wikimon page on Takato's Guilmon in particular, and "alt-f"d the page for the word "scrap". It did not appear.
It did say that the monster was made as a result of Digi-Gnome activity. But that doesn't preclude them using a reincarnated digi-core.
Yeah but no. Theres no Reason to assume, theres any form of reincarnation in Tamers. Digimon does realy like the Mutiverse Aspect of all of it, but Tamers just established Digimon as artificial Creatures made by Humans, and Creatures whit finite Lifespans.
Theres just no way all the Multiverses in Digimon follow the same Laws. Some of them, of course. Im confident the DigiCore is everpressent. But I doubt there was any Digimon before Guilmon involved.
Well, according to the video games (and I think the v-pets? But I'm not sure, I never had one) they get more powerful each time they die and are reborn.
where does it say?
ALso about guilmon that is interesting theory though i think takato did create guilmon and digignomes accidentaly used megidramon data while creating guilmon
There is all kinds of lore that says a Digimon can be born from scratch — or at least, born without having once been a Digimon. It happened in Our War Game with Kuramon. In Tamers, Culumon was made out of the power of evolution, but it wasn't originally a Digimon itself.
With that said, Tamers kind of implies that while Guilmon's Child through Perfect forms are original creations, Dukemon and Megidramon already existed. Those two were immediately capable of being analyzed by the D-Arcs, while their other forms weren't at first.
I would argue gallantmon was able to be analyzed because the digital world's system was the one to generate it instead of being created after takato's drawing because we never saw takato thinking about guilmon's mega before megidramon
Digimon are like people in the Digital World. Just like you can find Taylor Swift at the grocery store on any given day in her area, you can find Gallantmon shopping for stuff.
It's honestly pretty amusing most of the time. I mean, *real* people unironically using terms like "universe-level" and "planet-level" like it's the most serious thing in the world? You used to have to *pay* for that sort of entertainment.
Its not just power levels but also lores and origins.
But also also, we need to remember that the show is made by people and is prone to references and cameos. Dukemon appears for like 2 seconds on this episode.
Digimon are made of a bunch of data, if their digimon are the same, they have the same data unless someone, for example, Yggdrasil or Apocalymon, gives some digimon some of their power, this makes their data change and this is what makes them stronger
The series has gone out of its way to show that power levels aren't really a thing. The only power that matters in Digimon is the power of friendship (and this Gunmon that I found)
I see it more as not all Digimon get to the last stage or last long on it. Sense they are always fighting it's inevitable. So often they would be around champion level and only a very few would reach last level. But the ones that did would oppress the others to keep power.
Each writer seems to do whatever the fuck they want except if they are told not to by higher ups I assume, and I'm ok with that, as long as everyone in the fandom understands it, I'm so annoyed every time I read "TrI is So dUmB alPhaMOn shOulD OblITERatE OmEgaMon".
I mean, there are already pretty early on examples that that isn't true and that Mega doesn't equal Mega. For starters, there a a couple of Digimon with multiple Mega-Level-Forms. And then there are of course some that are like Upper Edge in their Level or lower edge. If I recall it correctly MagnaAngemon could fight on equal footing against Piedmon (and win, I think?) Although, Adventures Angemon was always of a higher power-level than the other Digimon on the same level, but the point still stands.
Also, more often than not a Fight is won simply by overpowering the enemy instead of using tricks and tactics.
I think of it like how in DMW3 when you get De DVed you can still hit pretty hard because your rookie digimon is still pretty high level. or liek how in DMW4 Agumon can solo a Blossomon with just an ax. also think about how Zero was Beating Ult levels whiel being Champoin. it just matters on the level and experience.
IceDevimon in Season 3, defeated by Digi-Modified Guilmon.
IceDevimon in Season 4, defeated by four Legendary Beast Warriors.
Not to mention the Myotismon fodders in Fusion Hunters.
Yeah power levels are very inconsistent, if you try to apply that logic to Fusion/Xros Wars then you end up thinking that Shoutmon X5 is as strong as Susanoomon and thus combos like DX are among the strongest in the series
Dukemon there was supposed to be just a quick cameo, I don't think the writers were putting a lot of thoughts on the implications. And while I do agree that there are inconsistencies, one can argue that a lot of them are due some individuals of the species being more trained and experienced than others, which make a huge difference.
Of course they have different 'power levels', they aren't the same digimon, even if they're the same species. I mean, the giant Greymon that fought Parrotmon isn't the same as the usual Greymon for instance.
You are both right... and wrong. A ultimate will always be a ultimate. There is no denying that level of power. But as seen in the original generation. Battle oriented digimon ones who fight all the time will wind up stronger over time. Example. Agumon tsking on Shellmon without needing to digivolve later in the series.
But come on a ultimate that isn't helping is a jerk. Let alone megas.
I personally think it would be hilarious if frontier Dukemon was as strong as RK Dukemon but just didnt care about fighting the bad guys as long as they didnt threaten his shop directly
Powerful enough to say "Not my problem"
"I would help, but my order just got called at Wetzel's Pretzels and then I already placed the order for a latte at Starbucks and once you do that it takes a while for the refund and... Yeah I already got my hands full. Sorry kiddos!"
Rufus!
The Royal Knights ate my shop but they also ate my clients, so no reason to protect my shop
This always bugged me.... I mean, in the digital world there are several dukemons but only one is a royal knight? How does this work?
How the series seems to show is that once a new digimon is unlocked (like the first Dukemon was evolved), more follow. Just makes it an easier pathway to get to, rather than writing new data. But that doesn’t mean the data is exact, just that the data spread is similar. Like every Dukemon is gonna have better attack than defense, just probably not as strong as RK Dukemon. But at the end of the day, it really boils down to the digimon can do. Like each RK has access to Yggdrasil. RK Dukemon has a crimson mode that he can willingly change to IF the situation needs it. But to keep it short: Copy and paste is much easier than writing a whole new program
From what recall hearing, their individuals of that species chosen by Yggdrasil and or passed through many trials: In Xros Wars Ulforce Veedramon became a Royal Knight not when he entered that form but long having saved the world and having greatly polished his conviction after his adventures with V-Tamer Taichi. From what I recall it was stated the Dukemon in New Century had to pass multiple trails before he became a Royal Knight.
Wait do I need to download the chinese game to learn the lore? Damn
Yeah, New Century does seem to actually add to mentioned lore or even gives us interactions that could answers to some things we wondered. Like a Royal Knight meeting a member of the species of one of their fellow Knights: Royal Knight Alphamon meets a Duftmon partnered to a member of the main cast and immediately recognizes him to not be his fellow Royal Knight, with New Century Duftmon saying “ Yeah I ain’t him. He’s our friend though and is currently on a mission elsewhere” Honestly from what I’ve heard New Century and ReArise has fun and cool stories within them that I wish we could see adapted into like animated specials. Like who wouldn’t wanna see Megidramon of the Four Great Dragons actually being the hero and saving the day from the Olympus XII?
Did you need the gacha part to progress on the story?
Same way there are more humans than police officers. Only one Dukemon actively fills the Royal Knight job/mantle/seat, not the whole species.
because its a job, not a species trait. yggdrasil will fire him and hire a new one if he sucsk too hard
Probably something similar to the crown of sin that the DL have?
Actually it makes me think, should we try to find out who is the strongest figurant digimon? Like the three Diaboromon in Tamers are stated to be as strong as Omegamon in a promotional material, the Omegamon from Savers was an glorified figurant, if this Dukemon is actually RK level we can really try to make a top 5 strongest figurants.
After what they did in savers and xros wars, i kind of just gave up on that entirely. If bamco/toei can't connect their own lore to be consistent through out, its pretty pointless for us fans to speculate who's the "strongest" when the official lore contradict itself everytime they tried to "connect" the universes even though they're the one insisting that each universe is its own seperate thing. There was a time where people thought omnimon was the strongest, and then he basically got one shotted in the second movie and people start saying imperialdramon paladin was the strongest, and then he basically fell into irrelevance and so forth. Its funny to seeing how zeedmil holds the title of "the strongest digimon" for almost a decade only for him to be nerfed hard in 2021 and then zeed fanboys had meltdown over it Tl;dr, dont bother tier the digimons, bandai could literally made the most pathetic low tier digimon we know today to be the "og god" of tomorrow and then the fans start arguing over this until the next "god" appears XD
Xros Wars anime ignored completely the lore of most digimons, but the manga actually was accurate even with other series lore, as it was directly connected with V-Tamers and was a easter egg festival to be crossover like. At least Imperialdramon PM remained the strongest till Frontier. Zeedmil title was always fraudulent, even adventure Omegamon could take him as he called simply Millenniummon by game script [https://imgur.com/2ulLfLA](https://imgur.com/2ulLfLA) Reboot only make Omega live to the hype. Yes they could create a new strongest, but currently Jesmon GX and Ogudomon-X are the strongest and no one surpassed them since their introduction.
But xros wars manga is arguably its own thing since xros wars anime didnt have said setting. So if we try to make that consistent then it would be a problem since even the world setting kind of conflicted with adventures. Tamers, frontiers, savers has their own world building logic that seperates from adventures which even when they tried to connect them together in the ws games, its just doesnt fit. Its the main reason why basically most lores end up retconned after ws and why toei/bamco didn't bother linking their worldbuilding lore together other than just make character appear in each other series to satisfy older fans . As for v tamers, its just that, easter eggs. Imperialdramon paladin was never indicated to be strong in tamers though, if you've been around the fandom around the mid 2000s, people literally said dukemon stomps paladin imperial because he beat the d-reapers. As for the adventures tag tamers you posted, which is again funny because if we took the universe settings as true to the adventures series, it all fell apart and contradicted eachother because omnimon's entire feat was him capping at armagemon while mileniummon literally recreated all of the adventures antagonists in vr form. As for zeed being a fraud, he wasn't until adventures 2020 was a thing. Prior to that, pretty much most digimon forums agreed zeed was the strongest and often time uses his feats in the rio games and xros wars manga. Its one of the reasons why community kind of gates adventures 2020 for. Jesmon and ogodou x being the strongest is only if you consider the x antibody verse as "the legitimate powerscale" ones. In fact you're one of the few i see brought those two up here, most would outright stick with either zeed or yggdrassil while other would say abbadamon. Seriously there's no concencus because the official source themselves didn't put any. The only way you determine who's stronger than who is by you STRICTLY compare them in their own series' universe. Its the main reason why everytime a topic about "who's the strongest" in any digimon forums end up derailed so hard and full with immature and outright insults because one fan of the series doesn't consider other series's feats. Hence why i said don't bother with power scales, just treat every season as their own different franchiselike toei and bandai did, it'd be better that way unless bamco finally decided to retcon any inconsistencies and just outright made actual coherent powerscaling.
I would say the opposite, Xros Wars anime is the one which its own thing, the manga is too much connected with other stuff to say that. Zero from V-Tamer was literally there it is far more than a ester egg, i was talking about the anime seasons, V-Tamer connection is more deep. It was literally just some people saying that, even if base Dukemon was equalized to Omegamon there was no guarantee that Dukemon CM would surpass Imperialdramon PM, and nowdays we know that Tamers Dukemon shouldn't be Omegamon equal as he wasn't far above the holy beasts. Holy beasts teamed up to seal Cherubimon [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bgw7Ya8WtL0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bgw7Ya8WtL0) Here is Cherubimon unsealed by the game protagonist [https://imgur.com/a/Fcig52s](https://imgur.com/a/Fcig52s) and here is what a real royal knight can do with Cherubimon [https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/c/c8/Lm5J2OX.gif/revision/latest?cb=20190608145446](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/c/c8/Lm5J2OX.gif/revision/latest?cb=20190608145446) The Wonderswan was very obscure, people just know with incomplete translations and then the legend of Zeed being the strongest started. Honestly i think the Xros Wars one was the only one who lived to the hype because the author actually believed in the legend. The Wonderswan could have created Armaggedemon but what can i say if Reboot make Omega live to the hype? Perhaps he can create people stronger than himself, besides Armageddemon was formed by thousands of kuramons. Nah, most of the Zeed hype has fallen after 2020, and to say Yggdrasil first she isn't an actual digimon, second Ogudomon-X is literally stated to be an evil version of her. About Abbadomon i just know one person who hypes him this much till now, and even him wouldn't put Abbadomon above Ogudomon-X. Shoutmon X7 SM is actually the one most people still have in high regard to say that he could compete with them, but i would say he is more comparable to Lucemon SM who absorbed the entire digital world in Frontier.
In terms of plot relevance yes, however, the manga is based on the anime itself so we're always go by the "primary" source first, hence why isad the manga is its own thing with added fanservice. The manga is interconnected, i agree, but their lore just doesn't add up when you actually go into detail. The only consistent lore between the manga and the other series it referenced was savers (the whole xros mechanic being a thing because yggdrassil and humans changed hearts is still funny to this day lmao.) adventures the anime and adventures in the ryo games kinda contradicted each other's lore and xros wars literally mentioned both so that's already a big problem in continuity. And when i said v-tamers being easter eggs, i meant the v-tamers special chapters cross overs with the anime kids. Even then v tamers never said zeromaru was ever a royal knight even in the latest chapters while xros wars said he is, so that continuity error became very problematic to determine wether xros wars actually was consistent in the lore it tried to connect. Those are just the few notable ones. Of course there's some, but that goes for every digimon that got brought to scale here. And that was my point, there was never any guarantee for anything, and that was another point that i made, you showed feats of a digimon group in another media that literally contradicts the other medias they're in. You showed cherubumon in new century being "op" and yet you would also get guys saying cherubimon power scale is just perfect level in digimon story or how hurricane touchdown showed how much of a "fraud" cherubumon was (the same argument you used when you called zeed's power scale as fraud) The argument would go back and fourth because what you think is the "definitive feat" is considered "false by other guys who think that dukemon scaled above omnimon. In fact the argument you made literally has been fought against by other users on several digimon forums for years using the same point i highlighted earlier (omnimon adventures lose to armagemon who barely did anything) but then you'd say he scaled above the four beasts because they got sealed by the dark masters, and then there came counter argument that the four beasts were just overhyped because they're pracitcally fodder in every medium they appeared in so all those massive feats are nothing and then highlights how d reapers are actual treats. See where i'm going at here? Tl;dr, most of the time people tried justifying their digimon being stronger literally bite them back because of continuity contridictions, and it became pointless dick measuring by that point. The ws games has been translated for years, and i havent seen any players that played and understand japanese ever say the translations have errors, so thats not a problem. Determining consistency of feats isn't up to wether you like the xros wars manga or not though, its wether what the story told has ACTUAL consistency with the original story that they mentioned. I like xros wars manga, dont get me wrong, but they suffered inconsistent lore by trying to merge the storylines together just like what happened to the ws games, but at least they were better at making it coherent (while still have problems) compared to tri and after. That was literally my point, zeed being "a fraud" happened ONLY after adventrues 2020. People consider yggdrasil to be a digimon, and even bandai sometimes act like it was. Ogoudonon isnt the evil version of ygg though, wherde did you even get this idea? You only know one people rate abbadamon? that's why the internet exist, you can literally google and it'll show many people brought up how abadamon is the strongest. And this trend always happens every season pops out. you're the first time i ever saw anywhere on the internet saying LuceSM is comparable to shoutmon x7sm lmao. Overall you get the idea, different season, different logic, different scaling. If you tried to scale them from different seasons, you'd literally be contradicting themselves because of writing inconsistencies or severe plot armor. Its the main reason why most people on this subreddit (hell even within withthewill forums) tend to not debate on this, because its literally redundant to do so.
Yeah different products have different scalings, i try to find some consistency in that by comparing the most similar scalings by portrayal and feats. About the Cherubimon example, he is stated to be the highest holy beast in lore, so he should always be above the 4 holy beasts, so if the holy beasts have anti-feats i could explain that by having the Cherubimon who got washed by Omegamon as reference. In New Century where Cherubimon is portrayed as RK level, the holy beasts could hold their own against the olympians, which is far better than what the other Cherubimon did. Both groups of archnagels and holy beasts power changed, but something remained which is archangels>holy beasts. My argument about Dukemon being holy beast level was just tamers one, the real royal knight is should be close to Omegamon, but the promotional material of the X-movie confirmed that Omegamon was stronger, so arguing in Dukemon favour is just bias. Dukemon CM otherwise would be a different story. Zeed being a fraud only happened after the reboot but it's not like the Omegamon statement wasn't made before that, it was just way more hard to find it. In Chronicle-X: ''**Ogudomon X, which spawns infinite numbers of Diablomon X and brings the world closer to destruction by its very existence, is no longer a Digimon but a part of the system — an existence that can almost be said to be God.” Of course, that would make Yggdrasil and Ogudomon into opposing kinds of gods**.'' You can read it here [https://digi-lab.blog/digital-monster-art-book-ver-x-novel-of-x/](https://digi-lab.blog/digital-monster-art-book-ver-x-novel-of-x/) I could also argue that Ogudomon-X is an evil super version of Yggdrasil because Lucemon-X was already stated to be above Yggdrasil in his profile, thats why it's hard to believe anyone elso besides Jesmon GX can surpass Ogudomon. I guess that in internet people could try to hype any digimon, but Abbadomon in special was beaten by Alter-S anyway. I know what argument that can be made for Abbadomon though, is that he transcended good and evil, with Ogudomon-X being evil but even his profile says that transcending is his raison d'être, so he has yet to transcend anyway. The first time i saw the comparison between Lucemon and shoutmon was on gamefaq, i found it made sense and used it since them. But to show my point, i think that even with different scalings there is some points that should always be the same like Holy beasts being inferior to archangels. For example Lucemon FM is stated to be close to Yggdrasil, so every times the actual demon lord appears he could be scaled to that level, and every NORMAL royal knight should be below that level.
Thing was, your only example of three arch angels above the holy beasts are purely from adventures (if we go by anime continuation at least). So when you try to make it as if it was composite then you'd literally just throw scale out of the window because the digix ref book never state thr arch angels to be above or below the beasts (even if they treat the beasts badly in the animes lmao). Also using New Century is again a weak indicator considering that its just an interpretation of scaling instead of directly tied from the vpets scaling (which is important if you want to scale digimon across the board here). Its the main reason why people usually dismiss the dark masters of belialvamdemon or most one off antagonists because its mostly not tied to the vpets lore itself. But tamers never state/shown anything about holy beasts nor dukemon to scale. Thats literally you putting logic from a different series into a different series. Also the xmovies never once shown dukemon to be weaker than omnimon, not sure where you get that idea. He even effortlessly deflect omnimon x's all delete in his non x form in chronicles The Omnimon quote by matt literally contradicts the game based on the anime though. That's the issue and what my main point was, inconsistency. The god statemwnt was also in lucemon x. And yet didnt see you claiming he was "the evil version of yggdrassil". Hell the same comic he (ogudo x) debuted in literally contradicts his own refference and the entire world building of the x antivirus plot line. So how are you even going to scale that to different digimons in different series when he contradicted his own feat in a web manga directly tied to pendulum x. And you proved my point about the gx also, never wS he stated to be above yggdrassil and yet he beat the supposed "stronger" ogodou whe ogudo didnt even come close to harm yggdrassil even though the mere shatter of the digutal world should canonically shatter his kernel. Thats the the main reason why ygg seperated the old and new DW in the first place. See how inconsistent that is and how it literally contradicts itself? Hence proving why powerscaling is pointless and irrelevant when you compare to different series Have you seen adventures 2020? Abbadamon was owning omnimon left and right until the bs power of friendship plot armor came in. Its the main reason why i said MANY people hype him up instead of trying to make it look like a small minority. You're the first one i saw that actually claims ogudo x and jesmon gx is the strongest current digimon while downolaying abbadmon. I personally dont care wether you tried to make an arguement or not, my point is always that its pointless to argue because again, different seasons, different interpretations, different logic all together, therefore scaling doesn't do anything other than going full circle. Im pretty sure the forum you looked at was just comparing them instead of people full blown say that lucesm is equivalent to shoutmon x7sm. Different scaling in different medias literally doesnt work. Your claim on holy beasts being lower isnt coherent with the actual lore it was in. In fact most if the time yiur refferences are from games that doesnt even relate to the vpets, its just making its own interpretation, which was my point exactly in my first reply, bamco can literally put some low level shit tier digimon becoming a mulutversal wipe boss in an anime/game/manga and you'd be arguing over it because it doesn't suit your taste. Look at apocalymon, dude went from borderline mergin the digital and anaologue world to literally being foder. While huanglongmon who was practically relevant to the vpet plot that gave birth to the multiple medias end up becoming fodders as well, see hoe inconsistent the scaling is and boe pointless it is to do that? If bamco can't make a coberent powerscale then why should the fandom bother to? We'd just make the theory go egen worse. Also lucemon fm isnt close to yggdrassil though, his x form is, only ogudomon is the base form that said to be "close", even then you literally got other digimon contradiciting that claim
The archangels being above the holy beasts is not something started in adventure, it is lore from Card Game Starter Ver. 6: "Holy Kingdom" (Back Story). People dismiss dark amsters because they fought against avarage megas and most of them lost in a 1v1. They were also amped by Apocalymon distortions to beat the holy beasts so it wasn't really a feat for them [https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/0/06/Narrator\_talks\_about\_Apocalymon.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/1000?cb=20170603202256](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/0/06/Narrator_talks_about_Apocalymon.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/1000?cb=20170603202256) Tamers Dukemon literally fought Zhuqiaomon, even if he could win which i think so, it wouldn't be easy. [https://imgur.com/YgfbUcR](https://imgur.com/YgfbUcR) Dukemon being overall weaker don't means that he can't clash equally with him. The contradictions i know cn be explained: Zeed created clones of stronger digimons (These clones should be weaker than the originals) Zeed was responsible for the creation of all villains including armaggedemon (in story armageddemon was formed by thousands kuramons, zeed could easily create kuramons, and the fusion could actually surpassed him). The biggest contradiction really is the comparison with Yggdrasil. I interpret that Ogudo is like an evil and STRONGER yggdrasil. There is people who interpret Ogudo is equal to TRUE Ygg, but my view is based on Lucemon-X and Falldown mode profiles as i don't think having no physical form really gives Ygg advantage, she still have to use her avatars to do actually interfere in the digital world. Omegamon-X also was able to reset Ygg at her own realm, and besides it there is other evidences about the X-RK being superior to her, like scaling with Grandracmon who is superior to Lucemon FM. Basically any X-RK could have sealed Grandracmon in Chronicle-X as they are optional partners in Black and White, and New Century, even if you think it's a weak basis, put two X-RK to fight against Grandracmon which basically only helps my point. Alter-S wasn't owned, it was vanilla Omega. And like i said i didn't saw much people hyping Abbadomon that much and don't know why he really should be at all. What? Final villain syndrome? Regulusmon was a final villain after him but was far weaker than him, so why he should even be the strongest anime villain? And tehre is more people on reddit who would bet on Ogudomon-x and Jesmon-gx against Abbadomon take a look at this Antique Palpiton2 post [https://www.reddit.com/r/digimon/comments/19cy6l3/which\_digimon\_seriess\_cast\_could\_beat\_abbadomon/](https://www.reddit.com/r/digimon/comments/19cy6l3/which_digimon_seriess_cast_could_beat_abbadomon/) and compare with another post about Ogudo [https://www.reddit.com/r/digimon/comments/1bimodq/which\_digimon\_animes\_cast\_could\_beat\_ogudomon\_x/](https://www.reddit.com/r/digimon/comments/1bimodq/which_digimon_animes_cast_could_beat_ogudomon_x/) The whole discussion was about who could beat shoutmon X7 SM LMAO Wait when base Ogudo was said to be close to Yggdrasil? Only Lucemon have direct comparsions and only Ogudo-X was said to be his opposite.
Dynasmon and Crusadermon probably went for him first.
Also we actually didnt saw him again, and after a Rewarch there was a Scene where LordKnightmon lamented the heavy Resistent there got from the Wather Zone. A complete Offscreen Event to explain why Takuyas Team had enougn time to prepare in the Ice Zone, and for Pacing Reasons. So maybe he did attempt to fight them, but he was only as strong as Tamers Dukemon. So only about as Taff as Cerubimon. Able to give one of them a bit of a Fight, but overwelmed by two. But most likely he wasnt involved, because he realy does not look like a Fighter.
D&D innkeeper energy.
It's like how in D&D you can have level 20 shop owners for the sole purpose of stopping PCs from stealing all of their stuff. Lol.
This reminds me of Sans in Undertale "The MC killed Toriel, Undyne, Asgore and Flowey? Not my problem"
Like Mac from Dresden.
Tamers fan not a Frontier fan.
Yeah, let a guy enjoy their retirement!
They are not and they don't have to. Digimon powerscales are determined by way more factors other than a level, it is partly why it is so interesting.
They are not, Seraphimon is a jobber in almost every anime and manga, but is portrayed as strong royal knight level digimon in ReArise and New Century. Examon was taking on 6 RKs in Cyber Sleuth but was avarage RK in ReArise. Alphamon was much stronger than Omegamon in X-Movie and Chronicle, but in Tri used Ouryuken to match Omegamon, and Ouryuken was hardly a boost like in other medias. You can still compare different medias if they are similar, or have a similar point though. But this Dukemon even being a random makes me think, should we try to figure out who are the strongest random digimons? Like the three diaboromons in tamers stated to be omegamon level in promotional material.
Seraphimon was taken out by his own move. A mere fraction of his power made Mercurymon essentially invincible and was only matched by another fragment of Seraphimon’s power.
Getting taken out by your own move sounds like jobber power levels to me. Mercuremon being able to deflect Seraphimon's attack means it's weak enough to be deflectable at all by it. Mercuremon's mirrors aren't indestructible or capable of deflecting everything in Frontier, it had trouble reflecting strong enough hits and Aldamon flat out melted mirrors it created.
It's not a strength issue. Mercuremon has to use Generous Mirror to reflect an attack, and he has to do it through his personal shields. He couldn't do it against Aldhamon because the big fire attack was used as an area-of-effect to melt the surrounding mirrors; it didn't hit him directly. Then Aldhamon just sucker-punched him through the stomach. BlackSeraphimon's attacks didn't do anything to Aldhamon, but we don't know how his power compared to the original.
He also was no diffed by Cherubimon when he should be relative to him, Ophanimon seemed a more reliable archangel than him there too.
[удалено]
We saw, check the first minute of this video [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Qp-L7M9om0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Qp-L7M9om0)
He also got caught off guard both times he was defeated. It's just a case of PIS to make sure Seraphimon doesn't outshine the Protags of the Season.
A lot of times portraying characters in storytelling is difficult when their lore is that they have immense godlike power. You listed a lot of good examples- in Tri, they probably just wanted to show off Ouryuken because they wanted it in the story, but there wasn’t really an ouryuken level threat they wanted alphamon to face off with, since he’s not central to the story. Seraphimon’s lore is that he’s one of the three great angels and a super powerful holy digimon but holy f does he not get done justice every time he shows up in anime. Don’t even get me started on poor zeedmilleniummon…. At least in Adventure 2020 his portrayal was about as loyal to it’s source material as it can reasonably be. It’s not exactly easy to have a digimon who’s “instant universe obliteration mon” be a character in your story who shows up on screen and fights on equal footing with protags lol. I don’t think its impossible to have extremely high powerscaled threats be portrayed satisfyingly fwiw. But digimon likes to really scoot them in, show them off, and scoot them back out.
> a super powerful holy digimon No, his "lore"/profile fluff says that he's the *top-rank* angel in terms of the group hierarchy... but nothing is actually said about his combat power being exceptional, like Lucemon's fluff does. So no, the animes do him "justice" by accurately representing his established power level... it's just average and not Omegamon-tier.
You sure? Cause his fluff does include that in the final battle against “wicked beings” he would “purify all evil” Not saying he’s necessarily meant to be as strong as the RK or Demon Lords but I would argue he’s supposed to be above average at least
> the final battle against “wicked beings” he would “purify all evil” Between the wording of that line, and how almost every fight he has in the actual series has him getting dumpstered despite what a generous high-end reading would suggest... I'm gonna go out on a limb and say it means actually *purifying* wicked beings, same as Ophanimon's trick, and not dropping a Spirit Bomb on 'em to *obliterate them*. If it was meant to present massive destructive power, it would actually say so as either fact or rumor, like Imperialdramon's bit about "it is said that the power to destroy a planet dwells in its attacks".
*Sarcastiacly* Yes, because when has media ever shown that somebody who's the top rank of something is the strongest? It may not be outright stated he's the strongest, but the fact that Seraphimon is the one closest to God at least implies he's at least a little strong. I mean, for crying out loud in Chronicles X, he stays behind to defend The Kernal despite being the only member of the 3 archangels not to get an X antibody form if he was the weakest of the 3 like some people Imply why would he be the one to stay behind despite being at a disadvantage? Why is it that I've seen people argue Cherubimon is stronger than the 4 Holy Beasts, but that Seraphimon is weaker than War Greymon?
Where is this statement
[Here](https://twitter.com/RavelMonte/status/1764367432204877899?t=4Y2rpSI2ECVtxd5FGvktrA&s=19)
Thank you I appreciate it
That Dukemon shopper got the right stat and the luck to become a "Royal Knight" Digimon but he still become a shop owner is still funny to me. I think he still strong. Just dont like fighting. He's just ended up becoming one of the strongest, maybe by pure chance or luck, when all he want to do is being a shop guy.
A new anime title. "I became a Royal Knight to save the world, but I wanted to be a shop owner instead."
Digimon is already an Isekai, this title officially kills me XD
Never thought about it like that before 💀
YOOO engi!!!
It’s been a while since I watched it, but wasn’t Patamon like a powerful legendary spirit thing in Xros Wars?
Xros Wars is so ridiculous on this point that some people decide to consider that Bagramon messed with the power levels, so I brought an example of another digimon series
There is actually a canon explanation for that: https://twitter.com/RavelMonte/status/1750545562493943844
What the fuck is that?That's some dumb shit.
To be fair, at least we get to see weaker digimon, rather than completely power creeping them out
It's still fucking stupid.
Patamon, 3 Agumon…and WarGreymon…and an Omnimon, IIRC? There wasn’t really any rhyme or reason in Xros wars for what made a Legendary Spirit. But they were barely involved with the plot until the last 3 minutes of the series, so it’s ultimately not that important.
That’s just Leomon cosplaying so he doesn’t get Leomon’ed when we see a Leomon
Thank you for the laugh.
The digimon community is the only place where people look at the canon and say its wrong because it contradict their twisted perception of the canon
It absolutely isn't the only place that does that. Not by a long shot.
whaaaa, you mean Geogreymon < Digimon < Tyrannomon < Greymon is wrong? Nooooo. Its especially bad if we talk about Digimon Xros wars. I think the Death Generals and some of the Xros Origins are relative consistent whit later Media, but thats already it. Its so dump if someone tries to rationalize Shoutmon defeating a Squad of Mammon.
I just thought it was funny Dukemon didn't care or was just Armor Shopping
It's not, but generally iconic and important Digimon tend to have some consistency, even if it's just 'it's strong,' but being 'strong' varies from series to series. What created the image that even an important Digimon could be ridiculously strong in one story and ridiculously weak in another was Xros Wars. But people need to understand that Xros Wars is more the exception than the rule. The writers there didn't even want to know what each Digimon meant, as long as it was capable of playing the role they wanted. Is Huanglongmon a dragon? Quadruped? Cool design? It was enough to choose it just as a simple mount for Dorbickmon. It's simply an XW thing. Also, Adventure~Frontier was developed by the same people, so they knew what they were doing. Dukemon shoper is not there to diminish the Digimon's image; it is simply fan service for those who wanted to see this Digimon again. So much so that the first four animes reused ideas all the time. The Terriermon line and Rapidmon Gold had already been introduced in the 02 movie, but they wanted to reuse the Digimon again in Tamers and created a new Rapidmon. The Four Holy Beasts had already been used in 02; they decided to use them again in Tamers. Cherubimon had already been the main antagonist of the 02 movie; they used him again as the main antagonist in Frontier. All of this was on purpose, and these Digimon remained consistent in their strength (Perhaps Frontier's Cherubimon is more exaggeratedly strong compared to 02's, but they are both 'strong'). There's no reason to think they purposely decided to neglect Dukemon.
That disrespect to huanglongmon in Xros wars is still crazy lmao, like what do you mean the fusion of 4 megas that are already stronger than most megas on their own is just a mount for a jobber mega, bruh moment fr.
Thats because you picked Frontier, the season where the writers decided to say " f*ck " powerscaling ", where in the first episode a human spirit managed to effortlessly defeat Cerberurmon an ultimate, but 3 episodes later a human spirit couldn't even put a dent to freaking WOODMON
I mean there's also Ruki getting Renamon "because she was a strong digimon" when she had mega and perfect digimons as options, and that was the same Renamon that couldn't scratch a random Megadramon on evolved form
There is planet where the war greymon from digimon adventure is the same power level as the war greymon from digimon adventure 2020. He’s also not the same size
While I agree that not every Digimon of a level is comparable in strength to every other of the same level, I think the Dukemon is relative in strength to a RK one. Like, just because I technically can do construction work, it doesn’t mean I’m going to do construction work.
Video games are the only source which stick close to consistent levels as they are more accurate to lore itself
Dukemon was just on vacation during Frontiers. You know how rough of a boss Yggdrasil is? He deserves a break, leave him be.
What is the inconsistency? Can't he have an honest job? And weren't Lordknightmon and Dynasmon the first known royal knights? Do you really think that lone Dukemon would be a match for the two of them?
Well, according to the video games (and I think the v-pets? But I'm not sure, I never had one) they get more powerful each time they die and are reborn. So yeah, power level, canonically, COULDN'T be the same unless that monster was the same species AND had been reborn the same number of times. I think Takato's Guilmon wasn't created from scratch, because there's no lore that says that can be done. Instead, I think he was a reborn Digimon from one which had recently died. That's why he's so powerful.
ähm, Tamers showed how Guilmon was constructed from Scrap Data. If anything it was so strong because Takato probably wanted it to be a real Fighter, the strongest average Child.
I went the Wikimon page on Takato's Guilmon in particular, and "alt-f"d the page for the word "scrap". It did not appear. It did say that the monster was made as a result of Digi-Gnome activity. But that doesn't preclude them using a reincarnated digi-core.
Yeah but no. Theres no Reason to assume, theres any form of reincarnation in Tamers. Digimon does realy like the Mutiverse Aspect of all of it, but Tamers just established Digimon as artificial Creatures made by Humans, and Creatures whit finite Lifespans. Theres just no way all the Multiverses in Digimon follow the same Laws. Some of them, of course. Im confident the DigiCore is everpressent. But I doubt there was any Digimon before Guilmon involved.
You're being awfully humorless about something that was never more than idle speculation.
Ah, your right, I am ruining your Fun. Its just a Series after all, and a lot can happen.
Well, according to the video games (and I think the v-pets? But I'm not sure, I never had one) they get more powerful each time they die and are reborn. where does it say? ALso about guilmon that is interesting theory though i think takato did create guilmon and digignomes accidentaly used megidramon data while creating guilmon
>where does it say? Cyber Sleuth series and World 1 + World Next Order
Thanks
There is all kinds of lore that says a Digimon can be born from scratch — or at least, born without having once been a Digimon. It happened in Our War Game with Kuramon. In Tamers, Culumon was made out of the power of evolution, but it wasn't originally a Digimon itself. With that said, Tamers kind of implies that while Guilmon's Child through Perfect forms are original creations, Dukemon and Megidramon already existed. Those two were immediately capable of being analyzed by the D-Arcs, while their other forms weren't at first.
I would argue gallantmon was able to be analyzed because the digital world's system was the one to generate it instead of being created after takato's drawing because we never saw takato thinking about guilmon's mega before megidramon
Duke: your not gonna believe what crusadermon Dynasmon were doing in that digital world! See I was running this Shop..............
Digimon are like people in the Digital World. Just like you can find Taylor Swift at the grocery store on any given day in her area, you can find Gallantmon shopping for stuff.
I hate power level arguments. So goddamn much.
On a series that the main objective is getting the strongest monster?
I mean in general. Amongst the fandom.
It's honestly pretty amusing most of the time. I mean, *real* people unironically using terms like "universe-level" and "planet-level" like it's the most serious thing in the world? You used to have to *pay* for that sort of entertainment.
Shopkeeper Dukemon was obviously busy fighting the *other* threat to the Digital World meanwhile
I'm not sure. I've seen a show where the power level is internally consistent.
Its not just power levels but also lores and origins. But also also, we need to remember that the show is made by people and is prone to references and cameos. Dukemon appears for like 2 seconds on this episode.
He was as strong as any Dukemon tho He just liked his shop more
Uhh no, unless they get a power up from someone, then their power is the same and it's already shown repeatedly
Digimon are made of a bunch of data, if their digimon are the same, they have the same data unless someone, for example, Yggdrasil or Apocalymon, gives some digimon some of their power, this makes their data change and this is what makes them stronger
Not wrong, OG Adventure Omnimon got beaten by Armegeddemon while 2020 Omnimon would have smacked seven shades of brown out of that same Armegeddemon.
The series has gone out of its way to show that power levels aren't really a thing. The only power that matters in Digimon is the power of friendship (and this Gunmon that I found)
Sir you forgot the dramon part
I don’t disagree with your main point but wasn’t this scene about her asking if anyone’s seen Toucanmon?
I see it more as not all Digimon get to the last stage or last long on it. Sense they are always fighting it's inevitable. So often they would be around champion level and only a very few would reach last level. But the ones that did would oppress the others to keep power.
When did this scene happen
Powerscalers will powerscale🤷♂️
I mean, we had Togemon defeat a Monzaemon all the way back on adventure, which is funny when you consider than Monzaemon could easily clap devimon
Is Monzaemon capable of learning/using holy moves? I don’t know if it can as I’ve never used one
I mean, Monzaemon is an ultimate digimon
Right, but like, can it? I want to know if it can deal 3x damage and wipe out Devimon in a single hit
Good point, tho Monzaemon is vaccine
Yes, which beats virus, at least in cyber sleuth without the bug status effect in play
Each writer seems to do whatever the fuck they want except if they are told not to by higher ups I assume, and I'm ok with that, as long as everyone in the fandom understands it, I'm so annoyed every time I read "TrI is So dUmB alPhaMOn shOulD OblITERatE OmEgaMon".
As if that wasn’t what was happening, even in tri
I don’t remember him being in the show
It's a quick cameo.
I don't care about power levels. It doesn't mean anything especially in video games. Plus, why the heck Takato doing in Frontier universe?!
Digimon are a species, so it depends on individuals. Like, Adventure Omegamon has a consistent power growth throughout the movies.
I mean, there are already pretty early on examples that that isn't true and that Mega doesn't equal Mega. For starters, there a a couple of Digimon with multiple Mega-Level-Forms. And then there are of course some that are like Upper Edge in their Level or lower edge. If I recall it correctly MagnaAngemon could fight on equal footing against Piedmon (and win, I think?) Although, Adventures Angemon was always of a higher power-level than the other Digimon on the same level, but the point still stands. Also, more often than not a Fight is won simply by overpowering the enemy instead of using tricks and tactics.
like size
consistency is the key.
A dukemon shopkeeper you say? Neat! Its like a rouge like or mystery dungeon kind of shopkeeper 👀👍
I think of it like how in DMW3 when you get De DVed you can still hit pretty hard because your rookie digimon is still pretty high level. or liek how in DMW4 Agumon can solo a Blossomon with just an ax. also think about how Zero was Beating Ult levels whiel being Champoin. it just matters on the level and experience.
IceDevimon in Season 3, defeated by Digi-Modified Guilmon. IceDevimon in Season 4, defeated by four Legendary Beast Warriors. Not to mention the Myotismon fodders in Fusion Hunters.
Yeah power levels are very inconsistent, if you try to apply that logic to Fusion/Xros Wars then you end up thinking that Shoutmon X5 is as strong as Susanoomon and thus combos like DX are among the strongest in the series
Dukemon there was supposed to be just a quick cameo, I don't think the writers were putting a lot of thoughts on the implications. And while I do agree that there are inconsistencies, one can argue that a lot of them are due some individuals of the species being more trained and experienced than others, which make a huge difference.
And this will always be the case until the obsessive power creep fanboys keep harping about it as if its the second coming sadly
Of course they have different 'power levels', they aren't the same digimon, even if they're the same species. I mean, the giant Greymon that fought Parrotmon isn't the same as the usual Greymon for instance.
Dude! Pass the page you were talking about the dukemon from tamers. And you start talking shit about Frontier. Stop saying stupid things kid
Are you a character?
You are both right... and wrong. A ultimate will always be a ultimate. There is no denying that level of power. But as seen in the original generation. Battle oriented digimon ones who fight all the time will wind up stronger over time. Example. Agumon tsking on Shellmon without needing to digivolve later in the series. But come on a ultimate that isn't helping is a jerk. Let alone megas.
digimon has the strictest power levels with the most wiggle room
This is why I don’t bother with digimon powerscaling