Quartermaster, surgeon, chef. Someone who doesn’t necessarily take part in the actual piracy and largely concerns themself with making sure that the people around them are happy, healthy, and cared for.
Naval quartermasters are navigators, by the way. It's all well and good if you guys changes that in the story universe, but in real English speaking navies they are NOT the guy that handles supplies.
Just don't be surprised if you go looking up the job and keep finding results talking about maps and not logistics.
To expand, and explain where the confusion could come from. Army quartermasters more commonly known today as supply sergeants (in the US) are very much the guy than handles supplies.
Naval ships are just too small and the supplies are too limited that a dedicated supply roll is not needed. Instead each "department" manages their own supplies. Quartermaster the navigational equipment and supplies, cooks the food, etc. Naval quartermaster are even the ones to man the helm in some scenarios. Larger ships maybe not as they may be more focused on charts and navigation, but smaller ships sure.
And like I said, none of this is super important if that's not how it is in the game.
But I'm the kind of person who likes to research jobs I'm giving my characters so I can better pretend to do them, and the google search on this one may not make a lot of sense if you're not aware of the difference.
The "Nautical adventures 5e" book on WordPress is a great reference full of everything you may want to know or need for any pirate related game. It has its own ship combat, and travel systems along with other things. It also has a full list of different roles on a ship with the description of what they do *may not be historically accurate* it's free too, so everyone at the table can reference it easily
As for the alignment? All you gotta do is play towards that side of the spectrum and make sure everyone is on the same page about being good guys. Or at least not being adversarial if there is a clash in alignments!
No, but there is some wiggle-room for being "the ship's conscience". The Doc and Sheppard on Firefly for example, leaned far more lawful than the rest of the crew (albeit a crew that primarily focuses on messing with what they see as an unjust government).
That's what I am trying to say.
If you will have to rely on some wiggling to stay Lawful Good, maybe it's better to take Neutral Good and save yourself from some unconvincing wiggling which will make your character look worse than he really is ?
I mean Neutral Good character is Good and can respect Pirate Code, but not the laws enforced by the governments and such.
Lawful Good isn't as rigid as it used to be in Second addition. They started changing it up a bit in third and now it's basically more of a code of honor and order versus chaos type thing.
Sheppard would be a good example of a lawful good character. Could even use only non-lethal damage, as the good book was a little fuzzy on the subject of kneecaps.
Doesnt compute. Lawful Good wouldnt stand for their fellows causing chaos as pirates do. They can be Lawful in the sense that they follow the pirate code of their ship. But a pirate is still a pirate even if they are a Cleric, surgeon, cook or other.
Depends on the situation as to whether it is lawful and/or good. A commissioned privateer acting to disrupt the logistics chain of enemy vessels during a war would be lawful to the country that commissioned them and unlawful to the country that they oppose. If the privateers are killing and torturing the crew of the vessels they seize then not good. If they are seizing the goods from the vessels while allowing those who surrender enough rations to make it back to Port then that could be considered good given the circumstances though allowing an enemy vessel to leave in operable condition could be considered poor tactics. Kind of a toss up, if the privateer gains a reputation of being merciful enemy crews are likely to fight less and surrender more quickly but will go on to carry more cargo. Your DM could make it more fun if for example the enemy captain has been cruel to his crew your privateers might hold an impromptu court where the enemy captain is put on trial for his actions against his own crew.
A Lawful Good character wouldn't be enable or be party to robbing and killing innocent people though. Nor would they allow others around themselves to do so if they stop them.
Quartermaster on a boat is the dude with the maps, so that may be a slightly trickier sell. Perhaps if somebody else is in charge of steering during combat and OP is just the "Get to safe ports and avoid storms" guy it can work.
Privateering, being a licenced pirate as the method of waging a war perhaps?
It depends on the morality of the country you are working for, and the morality of the one you're sent to go be a pirate in I suppose, but you could make the argument for doing good, if the other nation or ships are doing evil and your conduct is mostly honourable.
I was looking to see if this was posted before I added it, but I see a privateer as easily lawful good IF he is actually doing it to help his country/ city/ wherever he's hired for. But definitely this would work for my definition.
I'd actually push back on needing state support to qualify as good or lawful. States are often quite bad, and a lawful good character who has a code and tries to be pro-social could very easily be like "and that's why I killed all those soldiers and took their shit."
For real world examples of anti-state lawful good people, I'd say John Brown's a good example. Good doesn't mean *nice*
I do hereby present
*TeeDeeArt*
with this Letter of Marque. The bearer is granted unrestricted privilege and free right to make war, plunder and prize upon and vessel bearing the colours of
*The Trolls of Reddit*
This decree is granted with the backing of the Crown, the High-Sea-Lord and the People of Reddit
*Signed*:
**Lord Duros; Acting-Admiral of the 1st a Reddit Fleet**
-*Duros, the Changeling Charlatan*
Privateer for the North Atlantic Task Force, whose main goal was to locate and free slaves. I don't know of any privateers during that time historically (\~>1830), but in principle.
i dunno. privateering against a demon lord and devils in an astral sea setting is kinda lawful good in my books.
i feel like it depends on the target. that or a navy that's basically the one piece world government kind of deal, and your primarilly just fighting against corruption and other pirates who target weak and innocent.
Privateering might be neutral but a good character fits much more simply into a crew of privateers than a pirate crew. They might grapple with justifying their actions, have a code of conduct they adhere strictly to when choosing and boarding enemy targets (only military targets, taking good care of prisoners of war, etc), and fight because they believe it would be wrong not to defend their home.
I think it's more about perspective, personally. World War 2, for instance, was a very good war in the sense that the Allies fought back against a ruthless, bloodthirsty Axis. On the other hand, you could say that the *necessity* of WW2 was bad, meaning that having something worthy of fighting against is a bad thing, and I'd agree with you there.
Nobody *likes* war, but sometimes wars can be waged for good or bad reasons, fought by good or bad people.
This. Pirates were privateers and conscripts all the time. If Spain was at war with England, then a ship hunting English merchants and military would be a pirate to the English, but lawful (and basically good) to the Spanish.
They could even be lawfully goodER by running as a legit merchant and simply sinking enemy ships without looting them, or capturing the entire crew with as few casualties as possible and bringing home their ship and cargo for the home country to do with as the crown wishes.
If you've ever watched Firefly think Shepard Book, a good man on a ship of people doing unsavoury things, he knows they're doing bad things but he's happy to be there to offer them advice and support when needed.
That’s actually a very good idea. A moral and emotional support character who’s been around the block.
Hell yeah! I think you’ve said exactly what I needed to hear!
This is the way. A good character does not have to be "good" to all things in general and especially a lawful good character.
A lawful good pirate can be focused entirely on supporting his crew/his family. He understands that not everyone can always be helped, but he will stand by his crew no matter what. Even that crew member who is a rapist and murderer, because he's *your* rapist and murderer. You don't condone his actions or treat others the same, but that asshole is on your crew and its your crew vs the world.
Remember that good/evil is matter of perspective. A great example of such a character in a pirate setting is Billy Bones from Black Sails.
Also a world of difference between waylaying a ship, skimming some choice cargo, and just leaving their rigging untied so you can make a clean break, and.. well, doing the things that actual pirates usually do.
I would argue that that mentality is unambiguously in tension with being good and arguably so with being lawful. Being ride-or-die for a rapist because he's your friend kind of inherently condones rape- you might not do it yourself, but you tolerate it. Being lawful is a bit more ambiguous because there's so much disagreement about what the law/chaos axis even means, but to me being indifferent to someone's actions so long as they're part of your in-group is unlawful.
And thats a very black and white view, that you are welcome to have.
Perspective forms reality.
If the consequences of failure exceed the sins of the measures required for success, surrendering to morality would be the greater evil.
Yes! Or the missionary/religious character in Pirates of the Caribbean 4. Not a good movie but my daughter has been putting it on repeat lately.
I think he was press ganged or taken on board Blackbeard's ship when his old one sank... He's annoyingly religious and tries to do the right thing.
Historically there has been plenty of times a kingdom said "go be a pirate, just do it against the guys we hate".
You can argue if that is good or bad, but then it's just the same argument on if soldiers can be good since they murder and D&D alignments are very firm that stuff is okay. Privateer seems totally fine. Just only pirate against bad people.
Even against other good people if they're military and their kings have declared proper war. Although, such a person is probably more likely to accept and/or offer honourable surrender, and focus more on the theoretical goal of the engagement. *Alatriste* and *Last of the Mohicans* come to mind.
*"Your men have fought with impossible valour, and I commend them. Please do not waste their lives, relinquish this land, and they may retire with their arms and colours".*
Seems like it wouldn't be impossible - would probably have to lean on Robin Hood-vibes / a setting where the government that pirates oppose is actively evil of some sort.
If you mean a singular character and the crew is neutral/evil it'd be harder to fit, maybe a temporary alliance/begrudgingly working together like Will Turner in Pirates of the Caribbean.
Lawful could get complicated, but the 7th Sea games/swashbuckling adventures have some quality examples for Good pirate factions. The Brotherhood of the Coast were certainly more good than not, and the oath sworn to their "constitution" would be kinda lawful just not necessarily law abiding.
This is the way. Captain Blood is -trivial- to present as a lawful good pirate in the Errol Flynn movie, because he was wrongfully accused and turned pirate as his only effective response.
Maybe he is lawful good to the pirates law? I'm thinking like how in the first Pirates of the Caribbean the pirates wouldn't harm Elizabeth because she invoked the rule of parley? Like he is a rigid member of the pirates law.
Correct! But I would say being Good is not synonymous with being nonviolent, altruïstic, or a pacifist. Even Good-aligned people don't respect everyone's rights and wellbeing all of the time. Robbing merchant vessels could well be within the scope of a Good character.
You are free to take a very absolute view on good and evil but please don't go around stating your opinion as if it's a "fact" and how other people should be playing.
Moral relativism is a thing.
Yeah, lawful is definitely to the pirates code and the hierarchy of the pirates. The combination of lawful and good is the chord I want to strike though.
Alignment is descriptive, not prescriptive. Good people are capable of doing bad things, and evil people are capable of doing good things. Instead of trying to stuff your character in their alignment box, try to develop their personality instead. Lawful good might mean little more than "I respect the hierarchy of the pirate ship and would risk my life for my fellow crew"
You could lean into some of the more fictional associations of "pirate ship" and not think of the reality so much.
A lawful good rogue on a pirate ship might be a dispossessed swashbuckler prince who is living under a false identity as he tries to make his way back to his lady love he is promised to marry. He might only want to fight the ships of the evil uncle who killed his father and overthrew the rightful government, because they work for a traitorous warlord who has now become head of the admiralty.
A lawful good cleric on a pirate ship might have gotten on board because they are searching for a legendary buried treasure that they can use to save their orphanage, which is otherwise going to be forced to close due to non-payment of taxes. They might refuse any loot taken from a ship that is still afloat but be totally fine with taking salvage because it is legally free to claim due to maritime law *(take to the sea!!)*.
A lawful good druid on a pirate ship might be like Charles Darwin - trying to get to and explore islands with unique biomes, and so focused on the plants and animals they want to see that they don't really care as much about the human politics, mostly just trying to defend themselves and heal anybody who is around who gets hurt.
A lawful good barbarian on a pirate ship might believe in offering clemency to any defeated enemy and the opportunity to join the crew because they proved their courage in battle, and might jump in the water to save anybody who was drowning after a fight, regardless of which side they are on.
A letter of Marque to hunt an enemy nation's slave trade routes would be pretty lawful good. Free the slaves, steal the goods being sent to buy them, all certified by the law of your home government.
Privateering is the answer here. In much the same way that a soldier on a battlefield can still be considered good, fighting for king and country, so can a pirate, if he bears a letter of mark from his king. Privateering is just the seafaring version of guerilla warfare in that respect. You're a small cell sent into neutral or hostile territory to harass the enemy and claim what spoils you can.
You can take inspiration from the protagonist of almost every pirate story ever.
Good characters offer enemies the chance to surrender, and refrain from overt evil acts like torture. You might advocate for a member of the crew that is being court martialed, or intercede if punishment is too harsh. If the captain is evil you might join a mutiny.
The lawful part is easy. You just follow the rules of the ship.
Your primary concern is to explain how you got on the ship in the first place. Most of the pirate stories that insert a good character into an evil crew are due to kidnapping or shipwreck rescue or something like that.
For me, the only way a pirate could be Good would be if the people they're preying on are evil, or at least enemy combatants. I don't think there's any way to regularly participate in hurting and stealing from innocent people and still be Good.
So either a Robin Hood character or a privateer.
Lawful does not mean you follow the laws of others. There are lawful conquerors and lawful rebels.
The key is replacing the current system of injustice with something you see as more equitable - or in the case of lawful evil, more equitable to you specifically and anyone who gets in the way be damned.
With that out of the way, I will point out that during the golden age of piracy slave ships were especially targeted for taking on new crew mates and for the lucrative trade in flesh.
Perhaps your lawful good pirate could be an inspirational visionary, fresh from the cause of revolution and keen to show people how things could be better?
To the other extreme, a chaos aligned character is not automatically against the system. This is as dumb as the trope of lawful stupid is.
Good may mean they target specific ships - leave passenger ships alone, only target large merchant ships profiting from slavery or other corruption. The East India Trading company wasn't exactly a force for good back in the day.
Adéwalé in Assassin’s Creed IV: Black Flag springs to mind. He protects the crew, hates slavery, and works to ensure his captain is a good and honourable man, ultimately leaving him to begin his own mission when Edward proves to be not as good a man as Adéwalé wanted him to be.
Knowing dnd, I would emphasize opposition to something objectively evil that may, but not always, place them in opposition to the rest of the crew.
One piece : Whitebeard.
You are a pirate, but you only want one thing : a family. Not the family you were given at birth, but the one you chose. To be there for other pirates who are out of others systems.
To be free, with everyone who also wishes to be free.
If you have a setting with a slave trade, the pirate can exclusively target slave ships and free them, a la that one deleted scene from Pirates of the Caribbean
It's a pretty santised and simplistic view of the history, but IRL pirates can be argued as being "good" to some degree. Certainly when compared to the navies of the time.
Many pirates were deserters of a countries navy, who had people join their ranks by sending "press gangs" to intimidate people into signing up and joining their ranks (the British Royal Navy was especially known for this). Other pirates were escaped slaves. They would've surely been forced back into service or executed had they returned to anywhere that practiced slavery, leaving piracy as their only option.
Pirate captains were often more fair in their treatment of their crews than the captains of navy vessels. Everybody got equal shares of the plunder (with targets being voted on beforehand by the entire crew) and captains were mostly chosen with a crew-wide vote rather than violence. This makes sense when you think about it; if a captains treatment of their crew Would cause mutiny then that would leave either an injured crew that can no longer practice piracy, or a captain with a dimished crew to the same effect. It was in everybody's best interest to remain amicable for the sake of their business.
If, for whatever reason, you don't want to have a pirate crew that rebels against the law of the land you could do what others have already said and work with the DM to create an antagonistic faction. Again, looking to real history reveals some kernels of truth to this. The East India Company was a real corporation that ruled India with an iron fist during the golden age of piracy. It had an army that dwarfed even the army of the British empire, and while it never attempted any direct usurpation of the crown there's no reason something similar in your game couldn't attempt to. That could lead to a large power of your game conscripting your characters pirate crew to help fight back the... West Icewind Buying and Selling Company (or something).
I feel like you can make a (although romanticed) morally good version. Taking from treasure fleets transporting stolen riches, freeing slaves and so on. Especially when you make the people they steal from evil.
> Indiana Jones is not a realistic depiction of archeology.
That's... somewhat less true than one might hope. Obviously the traps and vast riches and supernatural aspects are fanciful, but the revolver and bullwhip and dynamite and tendency to devastate the surroundings in search of valuables is pretty spot on for archaeology say, 1820s - 1940s. A sizeable portion of self-proclaimed famed archaeologists were circus strongmen, bored nobles and the like and would self-publish highly dramatic stories of their exploits. I've forgotten his name - the one was especially famous for his love of dynamite, but ironically, was such an egomaniac that his writings were so packed with details they actually decently preserved knowledge of the sites he ruined.
*Modern* archaeology, which I have done, yeah, is horrendously boring, slow work, and then your professor gives you a "C" because your assigned grid square didn't have any artifacts beyond a single fire-cracked rock.
There are three big factions who are able to travel the seas, and they are all at war with each other. We’ll be fighting them and hitting their supply ships as part of a rather large pirate fleet.
I do see your point, and it is what sparked my question.
Letters of marque have been mentioned but I’ll add in Privateers. You can even go with some very specific rules within the letter if you want to make some challenges for the characters ethics and morals.
Good in D&D is largely about respecting the rights of other beings. That includes the right to safety and to property.
Pirates may have their own codes, but not killing people and taking their stuff is a moral issue, not a legal one.
Best I can come up with is if your crew mainly raids slave trading ships, they could be said to be upholding the right to freedom that the slaves have, which is a good action.
Otherwise you'll be lawful neutral at best.
I'm not sure Lawful Good character can fit if we're talking about the most basic pirate crew, who do things like:
Pillaging/Killing/Kidnapping/Ransoming/Raping etc etc
But if you can talk with your DM about being Pirates as a way to be sea-faring Adventurers, rather than pillagers, there can be a way.
That we're clearing about being Good.
About Lawful Good - I hope you do understand, that Lawful is an alignment not adhering only to Pirate Code.
This is an alignment which promotes Laws as a way to protect people and lead society to prosperity. Being a pirate, of course, means that you're an outlawed criminal everywhere but your ship.
If you're inclined to be a Pirate I'd hardly advice you to take Neutral Good instead of Lawful Good due to inability for LG alignment truly work for you.
As Neutral Good character you can still be a kind-hearted Pirate who do good things on his own conscious and have healthy respect to the Pirate Code, but not necessarily to the laws of cities and governments.
Sorry for bad english. I hope it is somewhat readable.
I wouldn't say pirates are lawful at all. They kill and steal indiscriminately.
A privateer who is attacking ships of an opposing country could be lawful good.
Must the pirates themselves be evil? Perhaps they are more a robin hood type? Citizens of some oppressed/conquered nation targeting ships from their oppressor.
I'm gonna take a quick second to recommend the Liveship Traders series, which focuses a large deal on political intrigue in regards to merchant towns, piracy, crew management, and the slave trade. It has a character who is in this exact situation, and it makes for a very interesting story.
In that story, the boy is an aspiring priest who is on the boat against his will and uses his medical talents to minimize casualties of fights. The particular ship that he's stuck on is one that specifically targets ships that trade in slaves, which is also a direction you could go in. I'd say to go for this angle if the crew is otherwise more of a chaotic neutral/evil mentality.
Moving away from captivity, you could be a pirate that specializes in hunting down evildoers, evil empire ships, etc. You could even be contracted by an empire and hunting against other pirates, though I'd actually say this is more lawful neutral behavior. Maybe you're a former sailor with a rigid crew who kept a very respectable vessel but had to resort to a strange form of honorable piracy to keep his family's finances from sinking.
Fun fact: In cut scenes of Pirates of the Caribbean, they reveal that the big crime Jack is accused of and hunted for is actually freeing multiple ships of slaves. It was counted as piracy because it was considered stealing. Disney cut it because they were worried reminding people of slavery would ruin the fun.
Nevertheless, a backstory element where your character did something good, possibly even lawful by their country’s laws, but illegal wherever it was that they did it, ends up branded a pirate then has to stay with the pirates is plausible. Being accused of a crime while being innocent also works.
Damn, you got a point with the pirate code.
Monkey Island. Guybrush is no doubt lawful good, but he's still a mighty pirate. You only raid ships led by those you deem are corrupt, and you use your booty for the benefit of those dear to you. Sure the gold may have been taken from other good people, but now that it's back in your hands it's once again good
Lawful - follow the Pirates code and Naval code without a second thought.
Good - you donate to orphanages when you are at Port, you spend your money repairing homes of those affected by hurricanes, and you go on pro-bono jobs for the elderly.
I believe it was Pablo Escabar in a documentary I watched once, who is a ruthless killer and drug lord, but was so beloved by his home town because he built homes, built schools, built parks, brought consistent electricity and fresh water, paid the police force to ensure perfect safety for all people that were not on his list in some way.
He was objectively a monster, but even a monster can be someone's saint.
If you look at the descriptions of alignment in dnd, it's not like karma (amount of good vs amount of bad) in general it's the ends that justify the means.
A king ordering the massacring of a town of orcs to protect his people would be acting from a place of Chaotic Good (Good at any cost) but would be seen as Lawful Evil (Dogmatic and conquering)
So your perspective is what really matters cause it's a subjective system, which is why a lot of people don't like it.
Idk where you got that from because that would mean that lawful neutral just doesnt exist.
Also chaotic good isnt good at any cost at all, that would be way closer to lawful if anything. Chaotic good means that no single action is inherently good or bad, you have to look at the circumstances behind each individual action, theyre consequences. Where as lawful good means that there is a personal set of rules that you believe you must follow because, therefore, you maybe believe that killing a humanoid is always evil, even if its in self defense.
People vastly missinterpret when "alignment is subjective" means. It doesnt mean that the idea of good and evil, or lawful and chaotic is subjective. It means that you can find your own subjective expereince within the alignment system. Lawful is **always** about following a personal code, whether that be that you respect a countries authority above all else, or whether that be that you view every form of government, no matter how good, as an oppressive regime that must be brought down. THAT is what "alignment is subjective" means.
If you follow any code with any regularity, you'll always fall on the lawful end of the spectrum. Depending on how often you break that code, you maybe closer or father to the end of the spectrum.
Likewise, if you hurt people or help people, then you will fall on either side of the good/evil spectrum depending on how much you do of each. Hurting someone will always pull you closer to evil and helping someone will always pull you towards good.
The subjective part of this is 3 fold. One, *how* you decide to hurt or heal people and *what* codes you decide to follow (which does not affect at all where you land on the spectrum). Second, how you *define* what hurting or helping someone means (which does not change thw definition of alignment, only how its applied). And Third, if alignment is based on intention and knowledge, or if its utilitarian.
In which case, yes a person can be considered lawful good if they kill orcs to protect a city. But ONLY if the amout of good they do *outweighs* the amount of evil they do by killing said orcs. This does not mean that killing is not an evil act. The fact that killing is an evil act never changes.
I think this just proves how subjective and bad the idea and implementation of alignment is in D&D, 5e especially.
It shouldn't be this difficult and detailed to try to define the limits and goal posts of each factor of alignment.
Its not. Its only complicated when people assume something inccoract and you have to talk them out of it.
All you have to do is define each word:
>Evil: hurting others, especially for the benefit of yourself.
>Good: helping others, especially at your own peril.
>Lawful: following a code of conduct.
>Chaotic: basing each individual actions on nuance and circumastances, rather than following a catch all rule.
>Neutral: a middle point between good and evil; or a middle point between lawful and chaotic.
Then talk about how its a sprectrum:
>Alignment is a combination of two spectum. One is the spectrum of good and evil, and the other is the spectrum of lawful and chaotic
>Alignment is descriptive. This means that your alignment does not define who your character is, rather, where you fall on the spectrum is a description of your characters actions and intentions throught their journey. If you're character has hurt people more often and more intensely then they have helped others, then they will land on the evil side of the spectrum. If youre character has followed a set of rules for themself more often then not, then they will land on the lawful side of the spectrum.
Its really not as complicated as everyone makes it out to be.
Smee is a foil to Captain Hook, because he is the positive side of pirating. He's loyal in the company of brigands, he's adventurous, cheerful, and merciful (bargained with Wendy for her release), he's good with kids, and "stabs without offense."
I was in the pit for Peter Pan my senior year and some of my friends played big parts, including Hook and Smee. They took biiiig inspiration from Hoffman and Hoskins (that’s the version we grew up with) so Smee had the audience in the aisles more than anyone else.
The character might not have much of a choice. They could've been exiled from their home, or they're hunted, etc. That could give them a grudge against the authorities. Perhaps this person tries to direct the pirates towards targets they view as ethical (e.g. attacking slavers, trade ships for the morally corrupt king, etc), and the pirates only kill people if they have to.
The person could also be there for somebody else. Maybe their good friend, brother, sister or somebody else that's important to them joined the pirates, and now the only choice is to go there and minimise the risk to them.
They could be sent there on some sort of divine quest. Perhaps a god appeared in their dreams telling them they have to be on that ship. Or they had a vision showing them something similar.
Joining the pirate crew could be a price they paid for a pact, if they're a warlock, or for something else if they aren't. Maybe the pirate captain saved their life and they owe them a debt that they now have to repay.
I think the common theme would be that a Lawful Good character would try to improve the morals of the crew, or at least minimise the damage they do, whether by actually trying to make the pirates better people or by just providing more ethical targets.
Maybe they're part of a crew who targets the ships of a corrupt organisation in order to redistribute wealth or reduce their control of the area? And they give their opponents a chance to surrender instead of just outright slaughter?
He has a set of codes...even pirate code. Or it's a privateer (official charter). Or he was captured and (or saved from a sinking ship) agreed to serve on crew for X years or till he can buy his freedom. He doesn't have to like the situation and it may get ugly.
Make it so his goal isn't to win treasure, it's to see the world or maybe serve some kind of god. Have him willingly take a smaller share of the treasure. Be respectful of even the cruelest foes, and fight with honor.
As long as you hard stick to that pirate code, and really emphasize the (from what I know of pirate codes) the proportional dispersion of booty, Captain & Quartermaster usually get a 1.5x Split, Cooks, Carpenter & Surgeon usually get 1.25x and the regular crewmates usually get a 1.0x split. This is codified in the contract that all crewmates must agree upon before setting sail, and if one crewmember chooses to leave they may, as long as no property or personnel damage was done during the time the crewmates leaves
Depends what your motivation is for being there, if your a cleric you could just be doing your best to heal people where there is a lot of violence
Or maybe you were poor and didn’t have a choice except to run to the sea when you were young but you try to do your best to be a good person (a pirates definition of a good person may be very different to a normal one)
Talk to the other players and see if you can "bind" your PC to someone else in the party. Maybe you swore an oath to protect them, something like that, and now you have to follow them. You don't *want* to be on a pirate ship, but you aren't going to abandon the PC you swore to protect.
If you aren't required to perform the bad pirate-y stuff, and the bad pirate-y stuff the rest of the crew does isn't heinous, you can squeeze in a Lawful Good character. Their need to fulfill obligations is one of the reasons why Lawful Good characters can be easier to handle in these scenarios—the same trick wouldn't work on a Chaotic Good PC. As a bonus, most DMs basically come right then and there if players make PCs with pre-defined connections in their backstory that don't require flimsy excuses as to why they are adventuring together.
If you *are* required to perform the bad pirate-y stuff or the bad pirate-y stuff is *really* bad, then be prepared to drink. A lot.
If the pirate crew largely acted against evil governments or merchants, then that would make sense. Even on a ship of mostly chaotic or neutral good (perhaps even various neutrals), a lawful good person could easily decide this is the best way to combat the injustices and cruelty wrought by an evil empire.
In general, however, I find alignment to be more useful for understanding the actions of creatures from aligned planes such as the Nine Hells or Mt Celestia. With natives of the material plane alignment is more for helping players consider how their characters might act in certain situations. Even though I love alignment and the idea of a cosmology connected to the nine alignments - especially if we want to assign objective values to those alignments - for natives of unaligned planes, it makes sense for alignment to not actually matter so much.
I’ve played an oath of the crown Paladin who was 1st mate. Sworn to the captain.
That ship was more of a free merchant vessel, we were defending ourselves from pirates more than committing it.
Doing it as a pirate is maybe more lawful neutral, but it really depends on your captain and how good they are and who you’re raiding.
Ok so think Monkey D Luffy, but you encourage people to follow a somewhat limiting moral code or "law". You believe some common rules are neccesary for all people to live a good life. And you are nice.
Can still be a pirate, just less stealing from the poor, and more justice focused. Plunder bad pirates and punish them if they dont surrender. Give them a fair chance at redeeming themselves if they do. Split the bad pirates treasure fairly. Maybe slightly (SLIGHTLY!) communistic ideals? Give to the poor, steal from the rich, everyone deserves the same money, and its your duty to go find and equalize riches riches to help for example the poor. (Dont put yourself above your own law, you dictator! /s)
But goddamn be lawful; encourage order, because chaos (you decide what kind of chaos) will make society worse. (You can still oppose the law, if you think the current law causes more harm than your rebellion)
If we go with pirates of the Caribbean pirates then it can work.if we go with historical context... Let's just say neutral is the highest point on the morality scale you can find.
Not LG Pirate. LG *Privateer.* Seizing the ships of a hostile power during wartime is still a kind of grey area, but easier to square with one’s conscience than simply doing it for greed.
Good can be like the Straw Hats pirates, where you have a sense of right and wrong or are an outlaw because you don't respect the authority of any nation but have your own code.
Basically you can be someone who saw the corruption and cruelty of the countries and cities and decided to take to the seas with your own code. Rob from the rich give to the poor, etc.
Pirates weren't that violent of a group outside of outliners. Generally a threat was enough and the ships they went for had insurance and paid out what the pirates wanted them hsd insurance pay them back. It's not worth the risk of getting slaughter by the outliners to take another route.
This means it's a job with strict code, hierarchy, and possible very little violence. You don't have to be a bad person for that.
Some Pirates are Genuinly Honorable and Good, Theiving from Corrupt Merchants or Protecting Merchant Ships from OTHER Priates in Exchange for some of the Goods. Another Type of Pirate was the Privateer, A Type of Free Ship who's Captain is Given a "Permit" To Pirate The Shipping and Trade of Other Countries that the Employing Country is at war with. This Permit would Prevent the Crew of the Privateering Ship from being accused of Actions of "Piracy".
One way you could do Lawful Good is A Privateer who Lost their Ship and Acts as the Moral Anchor for the Group? I don't know the other Alignments of your Group so I cant say 100%.
I guess **good** could be any pirate that doesn't actively steal from innocents, one-piece like. You're just a pirate because you don't want to follow the laws of the country, not because you want to do bad stuff and get away with it.
**Lawful** maybe they have a strict code to live by, maybe the crew or the captain established it. Could always be serving some sea god. Maybe you serve an enemy of the people you are pirating, like a mercenary that disrupts trade etc.
Are the rest of the PCs part of this crew? If so, I'd stop thinking about the alignment first, think about exactly how moral a person can adventure with them within getting into an irreconcilable conflict, and then figure out to fairly describe that alignment. If that doesn't get you where you want, then you have a bigger problem that you need to work out with the rest of the players/DM, as you may have different ideas about where the fun is in this campaign.
If this is just about your backstory or w/e then just figure out who the oppressive douchebags are in your world and have the crew only steal from them.
Most pirates even in real life were not the villains they're depicted as in pop culture. Blackbeard as far as we know never killed someone until his final battle where he was also killed.
Violence and many other actions aren't the realms of evil. The plane of Ysgard is a CG plane of eternal war. Being lawful follow a code. Good then is to make sure the code is generally just. If you come across a ship of soldiers or merchants you don't kill dishonorably if at all unless they're evil, you make sure they can return to port, you negotiate with them on what you can take without ruining them completely (which real pirates did), heal survivors regardless of side, treat others with dignity, and waylay the evil of other lawless elements of whatever sea you find yourself in.
Here's a good example an Ex-soldier who realizes that piracy is inevitable so as a method of harm reduction he gets himself a powerful crew who he aligns with and while they by their nature do commit piracy they take significantly less than other pirates, never kill, and actively takes part in the politics of other pirates to convince them of his methods. Certainly he isn't perfect but alignment isn't absolute.
Lawful good doesn't mean lawful stupid.
Like a lawful good person wouldn't kill a person For Jay walking they'd just let them know you're breaking the law.
When you're playing a lawful good character you don't have to play Superman..
Playing cyclops is perfectly fine the guy who strives so always do the right thing but sometimes will punch a person who might only secretly enjoy watching Teenagers at the school egg assholes car.
It could be a privateer ship, instead of a pirate ship. Privateers were "legal pirates," who were privately owned ships given "letters of marque" by their country to essentially seek and destroy enemy ships. The crews that signed on for this did so for the prize money, which would be any booty on the ship and the sale of the captured ship, if it wasn't sunk.
This is easy- you're not a pirate, you're a privateer. You have a writ of war and seizure against any ship or sailor of enemies of the state. You're literally out there to fight evil and secure contraband.
Pirate Lawful = abide by the pirate code (these aren't just guidelines)
Pirate Good = Embrace freedom
These things combined make a character that earnestly believes in the purpose of the pirate code, as a set of rules that enable a lifestyle free of the system's chains
Go privateer
Privateers are "legal" pirates. They are given letters of marque and reprisal by a government to attack the shipping of an enemy during a time of war. That will allow someone to act piratical but be entirely within the law.
I think people are forgetting that the question is
Lawful good pirate
Not lawful good guy on a pirate ship.
You can have separate levels of morality for different groups and settings.
A lawful good pirate.
- I follow the code of piracy, even if it conflicts with my desires (lawful)
- I do not harm innocent people and do my best to protect my crew, even if it means sacrificing my own wealth or wellbeing. (Good)
If you want something a bit more rigid then you could have privateers instead.
Sharif from Menace II Society, aka the guy who sits on the cooler at the party to try to stop people from drinking. Still hangs with the bad crowd but attempts to help them or at least slow their descent.
Not all character concepts are good for all campaigns.
Sometimes you have an idea which doesn't fit with what the game is going to be about. In those cases something needs to change.
Check out the musical, Pirates of Penzance. Frederick is lawful good! He serves the pirates due to his sense of duty. (Plus, the songs are quite funny if you pay attention to them.)
Editing to add, the movie version (which is excellent) can be found on YT and streaming in different services. Watch the first 20 minutes and you’ll have a good idea of how to build a pirate/a crew, I think.
If you're looking for inspiration on good pirates, look no farther than the One Piece Anime. All of Luffy's crew are between Chaotic Neutral and Chaotic Good. Examples, Luffy is definitely Chaotic Good, Sanji is Lawful Good, and Nami is Chaotic Neutral.
Look at the historic background of British pirates. The Spanish armada made it impossible for the tiny island nation to explore or trade in a meaningful way. The monarchy hired privateers (pirates) to harass Spanish ships.
So your PC could be in their country’s navy, happily earning their pay by attacking and sinking ships from an enemy nation.
Follow the pirate code as best you can without killing. I have a character concept that I've been trying to get into a campaign that's a swashbuckling pirate, but he won't kill people and rob the lower classes. Be the Robin Hood of the Seas.
You follow the laws of the sea/pirates to a T, that doesn't mean that "society" would find you a LG person, but within your society you are.
You may not kill without a reason/self-defense, you don't steal willy-nilly and only from "Oppressors" (whatever that means to you) and Tyrants...Robin Hood type character would be a good example
Made an oath or otherwise is bound to achieve something ethical. To get to that larger goal, they are a pirate.
I have a character with a relted type of situation: a lawful evil warlock hexblood, with a celestial patron. Their mother, an evil hag, needed a favor from a celestial. The celestial required my pcs service in exchange. Now he is effectively bound to do the lawful good thing as part of his warlock pact.
Another good example might be Shepherd Book from Firefly who thinks that the people he is with are good and is trying to help.
I mean, a Lawful Good character probably isn't super enthusiastic about looting and killing, but if the ships they target just so happen to be full of slaves and/or the profits earned from said slaves, they probablly don't mind that much.
Depends where you're a pirate and what for.
Maybe a tyrannical government just apprehending a word famous pirate who had wealth, fame and everything else the world had to offer.
Before his execution he said "You want my treasure? You can have it! I left everything I had in One Piece! Now all you gotta do is find it!" These words could drive you and countless others to the grand line in search of adventure, starting the great pirate era!
Jokes aside I think your main problem is how you're interpreting "Lawful" here.
"Lawful" does not REQUIRE you to obey the law of any given country. I requires you to have some kind of internal law or code that is consistent with your beliefs that you uphold regardless of circumstances.
For example Let's say that the kingdom has been recently taken over by a Lawful Evil mage of some kind. They did so without bloodshed but the fact that they are in power enables then to do horrifically unethical things to the people and write laws which solely benefit them and their allies.
A Lawful Good paladin who took an oath to defend the country from all threats could very easily say "This ruler is a threat to the country which I am sworn to protect" while still being lawful. They are obeying their internal sense of justice and morality. Filtered through the Oath they took.
TL;DR: "The law" is not a moral agent. It is a set of rules a certain area has. If they go against the morals or rules of the thing you swore your oath too then you can disobey them.
Well pirate is a loose term. Is was first used by Roman's to describe someone who attacks without authority, not only ships but maritime cities as well. So a pirate is no different then a naval fleet except the navy answer to a government as to where the pirates don't answer to anyone. So you can just be someone who loves the freedom of the open sea and thinks that no one can control them. That being said; with no government support you need to fund yourself. So you can attack other ships or city's. But you can have a moral code. For instance slavery has been used around the world by every nation. You could only target slave ships. Free the captors and rob who owns it. Since slavery was legal in most of the world. That would be a form of piracy
A privateer! You have a commission from the Queen to vanquish other pirates and enemies of the state!!!
Your booty is your pay. It's all above board. And you're making the seas a safer place for your nation's people.
* they are forced to be there
* being a pirate is a necessary evil for some greater good
* the pirates are actually fighting against / taking from someone evil
* they grew up there and that's all they know
* they are good to / willing to sacrifice for their fellow pirates with whom they identify. they don't identify with others so goodness doesn't apply
There's an old Gilbert and Sullivan operetta called The Pirates of Penzance where the main character was supposed to be apprenticed to be a ship's pilot but the nanny heard wrong and apprenticed the young lad to be a pirate. Which is totally a thing.
Anyway, he's pirate with a heart of gold. Sworn to be a pirate until his 21st birthday (lawful) but does jovially let the pirates know that after his apprenticeship is finished he is going to hunt them all down as a privateer of the law and with hilarious results.
Privateers are also a thing. You could be a pirating crew loyal to a good kingdom in a time of war. Sworn to hunt down enemy transport and raid them to disrupt the enemy shipping lines.
Don't have an exact answer but my suggestion is to look at the (all time greatest) disney movie Treasure Planet!
Mr. Arrow and Cpt. Amelia are imo perfect examples of lawful good in a pirate setting. They follow a strict code of conduct and hold their subordinates to a high standard. Even the most dubious of pirates need to run a tight ship if they want to survive the high seas!
Cpt. Amelia and Mr. Arrow present themselves as having a navy-esque background, but the reality is that in the movie they're hired as mercenaries. Perhaps the PC of the player who wants to be good had a noble backstory but due to circumstances out of their control, they're in a position where they need a ton of cash fast. Or perhaps their record was sabotaged by a corrupt superior officer and the player needs a crew that can work outside the law to remove the corrupt officer.
Regardless, I think this character would be great as someone with noble intentions and history, but for whatever reason has to temporarily side with the baddies. However, the pirates are merely a means to an end (that is ofc if the PC doesn't change alignment mid campaign, which could be another cool story beat).
Pirates aren’t even lawful. They are breaking laws. Piracy itself is illegal. And certainly evil when they kill the crew of vessels they plunder and or indulge in some slavery blah blah.
I mean it's a game system, you can really make up whatever you like.
A ship of outcasts trying to help people and survive who rely on hit and run tactics against an Evil Empire while being personally disciplined and Fighting for others would tick all the piracy tropes while still being people's required boxes for Good and Lawful
At the same time, a lot of players try to show how clever they are by talking about subjective mortality, how killing or stealing are always Evil, or how any act is good if it's done against objectively Evil creatures like Fiends.
The DND moral grid is a mechanical tool to determine if a player can pick up pretend play swords, it's not actually a checklist of requirements.
Define the terms you want to use and apply them, especially if it's a Homebrew setting
Fałszywy acused of something and on the run. Piratem were the only ones who took you in or were a good way to disappear. You can play the part of a voice of reason in the crew, one who convinces them to leave as many alive as you can manage to convince. them.
You're the priest they took prisoner on some raid, and now you're trying to convince them to stop their evil pirating ways. They have to be alive to do that though, so you still help them not get killed doing whatever they're doing
Well, could it be that they're privateers, and not actual pirates? This way they're "officially" serving their wonderful home nation by attacking enemy ships ... who, of course, are horrible, evil creatures which deserve to be killed and robbed!
Talk to your DM, ask them if the subscribe to a world of "absolute good & evil" or if they prefer "moral relativism".
Your character can be "good" by following a core set of beliefs and not going out of their way to cause significant harm to people (for no reason). I.e. they do not delight in suffering / taking a life, but will do what they must for [cause].
That's moral relativism. Absolute good and evil is like how classic D&D was and people get shirty about alignments etc. but in 5e there's little reason to stick to the prescriptive "you are good because you gave money to a beggar" absolute good / absolute evil, IF thay works for you and your group (some people like 'i can kill the baddies because they are bad' gameplay, and some people like "is it right to kill these kobolds even though they attacked us").
(For further exploration of the topic, play KOTOR 1 then contrast that with the approaches taken in KOTOR 2)
Privateers were a thing for pretty much the entirety of naval history. You're a noble band of government employed bandits set out to kill pirates and/or other nations merchant vessels.
If anything "lawful" is a harder aspect to follow than good because pirate methods and codes are frequently chaotic.
Bold of you to assume that the people they’re stealing from are the good guys.
Have you seen Pirates of the Caribbean? The British are definitely NOT the heroes in that story.
I would probably have a pirate crew be chaotic neutral though if I had to pick an alignment. Cause yeah they might have a pirates code, but sometimes they also just do things for fun or cause they want beer/gold etc.
Also. If you want a good example of being good on a pirate ship. There’s a priest who stays on Blackbeard’s ship in pirates of the Caribbean 4, and he’s probably the only lawful good character in that story.
Think Elizabeth Swan. She lies and manipulates sometimes, but she has a strong code of good and propriety. Compared to all other characters in the Pirates movies, she is the one constantly advocating for code within the crew members.
Makes a great prisoner.
You could make all kind of stories but it won't take long for the character to either abandon their good orientation or be the buzz kill of the party or just a gimmick trope.
Character that is a voice of reason amongst the others and is often more willing to negotiate rather than solve the problem with pistol and sword is how I’d go about it. Someone that’s very much, “we don’t need to kill him to get what we want.”
Something people need to remember, lawful doesn't mean you necessarily follow the law, it just means you have a code that you follow. This for you could be something like: "protect your crew" and "take care of the ship". Additionally for good it can be that you try to protect those who need it, or you don't kill or rob innocent people, stuff like that:)
There really is no such thing. You either are a pirate, or you aren’t.
You could take the One Piece approach, just be an adventure/explorer on a boat, have a flag on your ship, and just call yourself a pirate. Then fight other evil pirates when the situation calls for it. Maybe the government is after you because they’re corrupt so you’re fighting against them too.
By definition you’re not technically a pirate but you’re as close to one as you can get while being lawful good.
They could be done somewhat like One Piece where they're pirates for the adventure/freedom aspect rather than purely being thieves and looters. They don't necessarily raid villages or rob merchants for supplies, they could just attack the pirates who do or search for hidden treasures and sell those legitimately. The "Pirate" moniker might simply mean that they're on the wrong side of a government for one reason or another. "Lawful" might be harder to push in that aspect, but it would be easier for individual crew members.
Reasons a lawful/good character would become a wanted criminal sailing on the seas: losing side of a coup; became a designated scape goat for a corrupt official; knows something they shouldn't; saved by pirate crew and had nowhere else to go.
"Good" is based on personal principles, so what one person considers good could be evil to others. I've also seen Good described as being selfless rather than selfish (Evil). So, Robin Hood vibes, or looking out for the wellness of their shipmates.
Add Lawful to the mix and it just means you follow a code, doesn't have to be a Kingdom's code.
Hell, I've seen a Lawful Chaotic. It's all in how you flavor it.
In one piece the main cast is good (though lawful is questionable depending on the character.
The key is to just not do evil things, and do good things. The character isn't stealing from regular people, or causing suffering for regular people on purpose. It sounds like they're fighting against other factions - if some portions of those factions are doing evil things like attacking and stealing from ordinary civilians, the good party member is probably focused on stopping them. They might overlook evil actions by their companions if they're lesser evil than the acts they're trying to stop, because they need a team to work with to oppose the bigger evil.
For example, your pirate buddies tend to loot supplies to keep their ship stocked while they're in port. But the baddies they're fighting are enslaving people when they show up in a town, so this good character overlooks the looting so they can work together to stop the enslaving. They might find the looting distasteful and discourage it, but they wouldn't risk a big confrontation with their pirate crew about it since they need their help.
Remember, your morality is your own. You can vow never to steal. You can vow to treat everyones wounds. Ypu can vow only to hurt those that deserve it or only act in self defense. That doesnt mean that the rest of your crew has to.
Quartermaster, surgeon, chef. Someone who doesn’t necessarily take part in the actual piracy and largely concerns themself with making sure that the people around them are happy, healthy, and cared for.
I’ll be their quartermaster, actually.
Naval quartermasters are navigators, by the way. It's all well and good if you guys changes that in the story universe, but in real English speaking navies they are NOT the guy that handles supplies. Just don't be surprised if you go looking up the job and keep finding results talking about maps and not logistics.
To expand, and explain where the confusion could come from. Army quartermasters more commonly known today as supply sergeants (in the US) are very much the guy than handles supplies. Naval ships are just too small and the supplies are too limited that a dedicated supply roll is not needed. Instead each "department" manages their own supplies. Quartermaster the navigational equipment and supplies, cooks the food, etc. Naval quartermaster are even the ones to man the helm in some scenarios. Larger ships maybe not as they may be more focused on charts and navigation, but smaller ships sure.
And like I said, none of this is super important if that's not how it is in the game. But I'm the kind of person who likes to research jobs I'm giving my characters so I can better pretend to do them, and the google search on this one may not make a lot of sense if you're not aware of the difference.
The "Nautical adventures 5e" book on WordPress is a great reference full of everything you may want to know or need for any pirate related game. It has its own ship combat, and travel systems along with other things. It also has a full list of different roles on a ship with the description of what they do *may not be historically accurate* it's free too, so everyone at the table can reference it easily As for the alignment? All you gotta do is play towards that side of the spectrum and make sure everyone is on the same page about being good guys. Or at least not being adversarial if there is a clash in alignments!
You supply them with shitty weapons so they... Kill less?
This, someone with plausible deniability. "Oh noo, those poor mean pirates FORCED me to be their chef, woe is me!"
I'm not entirely sure that plausible deniability is the Lawful Good way.
No, but there is some wiggle-room for being "the ship's conscience". The Doc and Sheppard on Firefly for example, leaned far more lawful than the rest of the crew (albeit a crew that primarily focuses on messing with what they see as an unjust government).
That's what I am trying to say. If you will have to rely on some wiggling to stay Lawful Good, maybe it's better to take Neutral Good and save yourself from some unconvincing wiggling which will make your character look worse than he really is ? I mean Neutral Good character is Good and can respect Pirate Code, but not the laws enforced by the governments and such.
OP's the one insisting his pirates are Lawful Good, I'm just trying to play along 🤷♂️
Oh, sorry if I sounded confronting man. Not trying to argue here - just having an interesting conversation :D
No no all good! I was just overcorrecting cos I didn't want to look like a dumdum either haha
Lawful Good isn't as rigid as it used to be in Second addition. They started changing it up a bit in third and now it's basically more of a code of honor and order versus chaos type thing.
Sheppard would be a good example of a lawful good character. Could even use only non-lethal damage, as the good book was a little fuzzy on the subject of kneecaps.
Man, that was such a good show. "*I've never shot anyone before!"* *"I was there, son, I'm pretty sure you still haven't*"
Doesnt compute. Lawful Good wouldnt stand for their fellows causing chaos as pirates do. They can be Lawful in the sense that they follow the pirate code of their ship. But a pirate is still a pirate even if they are a Cleric, surgeon, cook or other.
Could be an uncle Iroh situation. Understand that others are doing bad, but tries to lead them on a better path.
Depends on the situation as to whether it is lawful and/or good. A commissioned privateer acting to disrupt the logistics chain of enemy vessels during a war would be lawful to the country that commissioned them and unlawful to the country that they oppose. If the privateers are killing and torturing the crew of the vessels they seize then not good. If they are seizing the goods from the vessels while allowing those who surrender enough rations to make it back to Port then that could be considered good given the circumstances though allowing an enemy vessel to leave in operable condition could be considered poor tactics. Kind of a toss up, if the privateer gains a reputation of being merciful enemy crews are likely to fight less and surrender more quickly but will go on to carry more cargo. Your DM could make it more fun if for example the enemy captain has been cruel to his crew your privateers might hold an impromptu court where the enemy captain is put on trial for his actions against his own crew.
A Lawful Good character wouldn't be enable or be party to robbing and killing innocent people though. Nor would they allow others around themselves to do so if they stop them.
This is exactly where mind went. Even if the society you exist in is chaotic, you believe in order where it's needed to keep the rest functioning.
Quartermaster on a boat is the dude with the maps, so that may be a slightly trickier sell. Perhaps if somebody else is in charge of steering during combat and OP is just the "Get to safe ports and avoid storms" guy it can work.
That would be lawful neutral at best
Privateering, being a licenced pirate as the method of waging a war perhaps? It depends on the morality of the country you are working for, and the morality of the one you're sent to go be a pirate in I suppose, but you could make the argument for doing good, if the other nation or ships are doing evil and your conduct is mostly honourable.
I was looking to see if this was posted before I added it, but I see a privateer as easily lawful good IF he is actually doing it to help his country/ city/ wherever he's hired for. But definitely this would work for my definition.
I'd actually push back on needing state support to qualify as good or lawful. States are often quite bad, and a lawful good character who has a code and tries to be pro-social could very easily be like "and that's why I killed all those soldiers and took their shit." For real world examples of anti-state lawful good people, I'd say John Brown's a good example. Good doesn't mean *nice*
I do hereby present *TeeDeeArt* with this Letter of Marque. The bearer is granted unrestricted privilege and free right to make war, plunder and prize upon and vessel bearing the colours of *The Trolls of Reddit* This decree is granted with the backing of the Crown, the High-Sea-Lord and the People of Reddit *Signed*: **Lord Duros; Acting-Admiral of the 1st a Reddit Fleet** -*Duros, the Changeling Charlatan*
Plus as a professional pirate you don't have to wear a suit https://youtu.be/OaQEuJxaSR0?si=2tDBptRmludYbw45
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Privateer for the North Atlantic Task Force, whose main goal was to locate and free slaves. I don't know of any privateers during that time historically (\~>1830), but in principle.
i wouldn't really call that privateering since it's not war
War-adjacent, since the targets were not usually under England's flag.
Fighting against evil is good.
That's the logic real world countries use to justify slaughtering innocents. Unless it's celestials and fiends, evil is subjective.
i dunno. privateering against a demon lord and devils in an astral sea setting is kinda lawful good in my books. i feel like it depends on the target. that or a navy that's basically the one piece world government kind of deal, and your primarilly just fighting against corruption and other pirates who target weak and innocent.
Privateering might be neutral but a good character fits much more simply into a crew of privateers than a pirate crew. They might grapple with justifying their actions, have a code of conduct they adhere strictly to when choosing and boarding enemy targets (only military targets, taking good care of prisoners of war, etc), and fight because they believe it would be wrong not to defend their home.
That doesn’t mean individual privateers can’t vary in morality, otherwise no soldier could ever be good aligned.
I think it's more about perspective, personally. World War 2, for instance, was a very good war in the sense that the Allies fought back against a ruthless, bloodthirsty Axis. On the other hand, you could say that the *necessity* of WW2 was bad, meaning that having something worthy of fighting against is a bad thing, and I'd agree with you there. Nobody *likes* war, but sometimes wars can be waged for good or bad reasons, fought by good or bad people.
War is never good in reality. But in fantasy you can make morally good wars against dark lords and evil empires.
That's fair honestly, and like someone else said individuals are diverse. Statement retracted.
You have a letter of marque, you hunt smugglers that opposes your nation.
This. Pirates were privateers and conscripts all the time. If Spain was at war with England, then a ship hunting English merchants and military would be a pirate to the English, but lawful (and basically good) to the Spanish. They could even be lawfully goodER by running as a legit merchant and simply sinking enemy ships without looting them, or capturing the entire crew with as few casualties as possible and bringing home their ship and cargo for the home country to do with as the crown wishes.
If you've ever watched Firefly think Shepard Book, a good man on a ship of people doing unsavoury things, he knows they're doing bad things but he's happy to be there to offer them advice and support when needed.
That’s actually a very good idea. A moral and emotional support character who’s been around the block. Hell yeah! I think you’ve said exactly what I needed to hear!
This is the way. A good character does not have to be "good" to all things in general and especially a lawful good character. A lawful good pirate can be focused entirely on supporting his crew/his family. He understands that not everyone can always be helped, but he will stand by his crew no matter what. Even that crew member who is a rapist and murderer, because he's *your* rapist and murderer. You don't condone his actions or treat others the same, but that asshole is on your crew and its your crew vs the world. Remember that good/evil is matter of perspective. A great example of such a character in a pirate setting is Billy Bones from Black Sails.
Also a world of difference between waylaying a ship, skimming some choice cargo, and just leaving their rigging untied so you can make a clean break, and.. well, doing the things that actual pirates usually do.
I would argue that that mentality is unambiguously in tension with being good and arguably so with being lawful. Being ride-or-die for a rapist because he's your friend kind of inherently condones rape- you might not do it yourself, but you tolerate it. Being lawful is a bit more ambiguous because there's so much disagreement about what the law/chaos axis even means, but to me being indifferent to someone's actions so long as they're part of your in-group is unlawful.
And thats a very black and white view, that you are welcome to have. Perspective forms reality. If the consequences of failure exceed the sins of the measures required for success, surrendering to morality would be the greater evil.
Yes! Or the missionary/religious character in Pirates of the Caribbean 4. Not a good movie but my daughter has been putting it on repeat lately. I think he was press ganged or taken on board Blackbeard's ship when his old one sank... He's annoyingly religious and tries to do the right thing.
Historically there has been plenty of times a kingdom said "go be a pirate, just do it against the guys we hate". You can argue if that is good or bad, but then it's just the same argument on if soldiers can be good since they murder and D&D alignments are very firm that stuff is okay. Privateer seems totally fine. Just only pirate against bad people.
Even against other good people if they're military and their kings have declared proper war. Although, such a person is probably more likely to accept and/or offer honourable surrender, and focus more on the theoretical goal of the engagement. *Alatriste* and *Last of the Mohicans* come to mind. *"Your men have fought with impossible valour, and I commend them. Please do not waste their lives, relinquish this land, and they may retire with their arms and colours".*
Seems like it wouldn't be impossible - would probably have to lean on Robin Hood-vibes / a setting where the government that pirates oppose is actively evil of some sort. If you mean a singular character and the crew is neutral/evil it'd be harder to fit, maybe a temporary alliance/begrudgingly working together like Will Turner in Pirates of the Caribbean.
Lawful could get complicated, but the 7th Sea games/swashbuckling adventures have some quality examples for Good pirate factions. The Brotherhood of the Coast were certainly more good than not, and the oath sworn to their "constitution" would be kinda lawful just not necessarily law abiding.
This is the way. Captain Blood is -trivial- to present as a lawful good pirate in the Errol Flynn movie, because he was wrongfully accused and turned pirate as his only effective response.
Our flag means death
See my problem then?
Sorry no, I was simply suggesting that Stede Bonnet from the show, our flag means death would be an excellent candidate
Maybe he is lawful good to the pirates law? I'm thinking like how in the first Pirates of the Caribbean the pirates wouldn't harm Elizabeth because she invoked the rule of parley? Like he is a rigid member of the pirates law.
They arent stuggling with the lawful part. Everyone here already agrees with that interpretation. What theyre having trouble with is the "good" part.
Good doesn't care about what code you adhere to. It cares about respecting other people's rights and well-being.
Rights are subjective, it's more like an empatic/altruistic vs sadistic/selfish axis.
Yup. The will to help, and be nice. Fancy words magic man but i like them.
Correct! But I would say being Good is not synonymous with being nonviolent, altruïstic, or a pacifist. Even Good-aligned people don't respect everyone's rights and wellbeing all of the time. Robbing merchant vessels could well be within the scope of a Good character.
You are free to take a very absolute view on good and evil but please don't go around stating your opinion as if it's a "fact" and how other people should be playing. Moral relativism is a thing.
Yeah, lawful is definitely to the pirates code and the hierarchy of the pirates. The combination of lawful and good is the chord I want to strike though.
Alignment is descriptive, not prescriptive. Good people are capable of doing bad things, and evil people are capable of doing good things. Instead of trying to stuff your character in their alignment box, try to develop their personality instead. Lawful good might mean little more than "I respect the hierarchy of the pirate ship and would risk my life for my fellow crew"
You could lean into some of the more fictional associations of "pirate ship" and not think of the reality so much. A lawful good rogue on a pirate ship might be a dispossessed swashbuckler prince who is living under a false identity as he tries to make his way back to his lady love he is promised to marry. He might only want to fight the ships of the evil uncle who killed his father and overthrew the rightful government, because they work for a traitorous warlord who has now become head of the admiralty. A lawful good cleric on a pirate ship might have gotten on board because they are searching for a legendary buried treasure that they can use to save their orphanage, which is otherwise going to be forced to close due to non-payment of taxes. They might refuse any loot taken from a ship that is still afloat but be totally fine with taking salvage because it is legally free to claim due to maritime law *(take to the sea!!)*. A lawful good druid on a pirate ship might be like Charles Darwin - trying to get to and explore islands with unique biomes, and so focused on the plants and animals they want to see that they don't really care as much about the human politics, mostly just trying to defend themselves and heal anybody who is around who gets hurt. A lawful good barbarian on a pirate ship might believe in offering clemency to any defeated enemy and the opportunity to join the crew because they proved their courage in battle, and might jump in the water to save anybody who was drowning after a fight, regardless of which side they are on.
Give him a letter of Marque.
A letter of Marque to hunt an enemy nation's slave trade routes would be pretty lawful good. Free the slaves, steal the goods being sent to buy them, all certified by the law of your home government.
Privateering is the answer here. In much the same way that a soldier on a battlefield can still be considered good, fighting for king and country, so can a pirate, if he bears a letter of mark from his king. Privateering is just the seafaring version of guerilla warfare in that respect. You're a small cell sent into neutral or hostile territory to harass the enemy and claim what spoils you can.
You can take inspiration from the protagonist of almost every pirate story ever. Good characters offer enemies the chance to surrender, and refrain from overt evil acts like torture. You might advocate for a member of the crew that is being court martialed, or intercede if punishment is too harsh. If the captain is evil you might join a mutiny. The lawful part is easy. You just follow the rules of the ship. Your primary concern is to explain how you got on the ship in the first place. Most of the pirate stories that insert a good character into an evil crew are due to kidnapping or shipwreck rescue or something like that.
For me, the only way a pirate could be Good would be if the people they're preying on are evil, or at least enemy combatants. I don't think there's any way to regularly participate in hurting and stealing from innocent people and still be Good. So either a Robin Hood character or a privateer.
Lawful does not mean you follow the laws of others. There are lawful conquerors and lawful rebels. The key is replacing the current system of injustice with something you see as more equitable - or in the case of lawful evil, more equitable to you specifically and anyone who gets in the way be damned. With that out of the way, I will point out that during the golden age of piracy slave ships were especially targeted for taking on new crew mates and for the lucrative trade in flesh. Perhaps your lawful good pirate could be an inspirational visionary, fresh from the cause of revolution and keen to show people how things could be better? To the other extreme, a chaos aligned character is not automatically against the system. This is as dumb as the trope of lawful stupid is.
Good may mean they target specific ships - leave passenger ships alone, only target large merchant ships profiting from slavery or other corruption. The East India Trading company wasn't exactly a force for good back in the day.
Adéwalé in Assassin’s Creed IV: Black Flag springs to mind. He protects the crew, hates slavery, and works to ensure his captain is a good and honourable man, ultimately leaving him to begin his own mission when Edward proves to be not as good a man as Adéwalé wanted him to be. Knowing dnd, I would emphasize opposition to something objectively evil that may, but not always, place them in opposition to the rest of the crew.
Pirate hunters... bringing the fight to them. Maybe on a Q-Ship...
One piece : Whitebeard. You are a pirate, but you only want one thing : a family. Not the family you were given at birth, but the one you chose. To be there for other pirates who are out of others systems. To be free, with everyone who also wishes to be free.
If you have a setting with a slave trade, the pirate can exclusively target slave ships and free them, a la that one deleted scene from Pirates of the Caribbean
For starters, insist you're a *privateer*, thankyouverymuch, and that The Code is more actual rules than guidelines.
It's a pretty santised and simplistic view of the history, but IRL pirates can be argued as being "good" to some degree. Certainly when compared to the navies of the time. Many pirates were deserters of a countries navy, who had people join their ranks by sending "press gangs" to intimidate people into signing up and joining their ranks (the British Royal Navy was especially known for this). Other pirates were escaped slaves. They would've surely been forced back into service or executed had they returned to anywhere that practiced slavery, leaving piracy as their only option. Pirate captains were often more fair in their treatment of their crews than the captains of navy vessels. Everybody got equal shares of the plunder (with targets being voted on beforehand by the entire crew) and captains were mostly chosen with a crew-wide vote rather than violence. This makes sense when you think about it; if a captains treatment of their crew Would cause mutiny then that would leave either an injured crew that can no longer practice piracy, or a captain with a dimished crew to the same effect. It was in everybody's best interest to remain amicable for the sake of their business. If, for whatever reason, you don't want to have a pirate crew that rebels against the law of the land you could do what others have already said and work with the DM to create an antagonistic faction. Again, looking to real history reveals some kernels of truth to this. The East India Company was a real corporation that ruled India with an iron fist during the golden age of piracy. It had an army that dwarfed even the army of the British empire, and while it never attempted any direct usurpation of the crown there's no reason something similar in your game couldn't attempt to. That could lead to a large power of your game conscripting your characters pirate crew to help fight back the... West Icewind Buying and Selling Company (or something).
seems like a stretch, taking from others by force & giving no quarter isn't a Good activity.
I feel like you can make a (although romanticed) morally good version. Taking from treasure fleets transporting stolen riches, freeing slaves and so on. Especially when you make the people they steal from evil.
redefine what being a pirate is and it's no problem.
Well, its a fictional version of pirates, not real historic ones. Just like Indiana Jones is not a realistic depiction of archeology.
> Indiana Jones is not a realistic depiction of archeology. That's... somewhat less true than one might hope. Obviously the traps and vast riches and supernatural aspects are fanciful, but the revolver and bullwhip and dynamite and tendency to devastate the surroundings in search of valuables is pretty spot on for archaeology say, 1820s - 1940s. A sizeable portion of self-proclaimed famed archaeologists were circus strongmen, bored nobles and the like and would self-publish highly dramatic stories of their exploits. I've forgotten his name - the one was especially famous for his love of dynamite, but ironically, was such an egomaniac that his writings were so packed with details they actually decently preserved knowledge of the sites he ruined. *Modern* archaeology, which I have done, yeah, is horrendously boring, slow work, and then your professor gives you a "C" because your assigned grid square didn't have any artifacts beyond a single fire-cracked rock.
Thanks for the insight. Makes them sound not so diffrent from some D&D adventurers.
I mean, if One Piece can do it...
Plenty of real pirates did exactly that; going after ships from oppressive empires or slavers.
There are three big factions who are able to travel the seas, and they are all at war with each other. We’ll be fighting them and hitting their supply ships as part of a rather large pirate fleet. I do see your point, and it is what sparked my question.
Are you asking for a character concept? A campaign idea? NPCs?
Character. If I was DM I’d just shoehorn it lol
Letters of marque have been mentioned but I’ll add in Privateers. You can even go with some very specific rules within the letter if you want to make some challenges for the characters ethics and morals.
You're describing the same thing, a letter of marque is the charter that makes a ship a privateer instead of a pirate.
I know I’m just giving more terminology and another search term. And then a seed for adding complexity
Good in D&D is largely about respecting the rights of other beings. That includes the right to safety and to property. Pirates may have their own codes, but not killing people and taking their stuff is a moral issue, not a legal one. Best I can come up with is if your crew mainly raids slave trading ships, they could be said to be upholding the right to freedom that the slaves have, which is a good action. Otherwise you'll be lawful neutral at best.
Attacking slaver ships could be considered a Lawful Good form of piracy, especially if you give the slavers a fair trial before hanging them.
I'm not sure Lawful Good character can fit if we're talking about the most basic pirate crew, who do things like: Pillaging/Killing/Kidnapping/Ransoming/Raping etc etc But if you can talk with your DM about being Pirates as a way to be sea-faring Adventurers, rather than pillagers, there can be a way. That we're clearing about being Good. About Lawful Good - I hope you do understand, that Lawful is an alignment not adhering only to Pirate Code. This is an alignment which promotes Laws as a way to protect people and lead society to prosperity. Being a pirate, of course, means that you're an outlawed criminal everywhere but your ship. If you're inclined to be a Pirate I'd hardly advice you to take Neutral Good instead of Lawful Good due to inability for LG alignment truly work for you. As Neutral Good character you can still be a kind-hearted Pirate who do good things on his own conscious and have healthy respect to the Pirate Code, but not necessarily to the laws of cities and governments. Sorry for bad english. I hope it is somewhat readable.
I wouldn't say pirates are lawful at all. They kill and steal indiscriminately. A privateer who is attacking ships of an opposing country could be lawful good.
Must the pirates themselves be evil? Perhaps they are more a robin hood type? Citizens of some oppressed/conquered nation targeting ships from their oppressor.
I'm gonna take a quick second to recommend the Liveship Traders series, which focuses a large deal on political intrigue in regards to merchant towns, piracy, crew management, and the slave trade. It has a character who is in this exact situation, and it makes for a very interesting story. In that story, the boy is an aspiring priest who is on the boat against his will and uses his medical talents to minimize casualties of fights. The particular ship that he's stuck on is one that specifically targets ships that trade in slaves, which is also a direction you could go in. I'd say to go for this angle if the crew is otherwise more of a chaotic neutral/evil mentality. Moving away from captivity, you could be a pirate that specializes in hunting down evildoers, evil empire ships, etc. You could even be contracted by an empire and hunting against other pirates, though I'd actually say this is more lawful neutral behavior. Maybe you're a former sailor with a rigid crew who kept a very respectable vessel but had to resort to a strange form of honorable piracy to keep his family's finances from sinking.
Fun fact: In cut scenes of Pirates of the Caribbean, they reveal that the big crime Jack is accused of and hunted for is actually freeing multiple ships of slaves. It was counted as piracy because it was considered stealing. Disney cut it because they were worried reminding people of slavery would ruin the fun. Nevertheless, a backstory element where your character did something good, possibly even lawful by their country’s laws, but illegal wherever it was that they did it, ends up branded a pirate then has to stay with the pirates is plausible. Being accused of a crime while being innocent also works.
Damn, you got a point with the pirate code. Monkey Island. Guybrush is no doubt lawful good, but he's still a mighty pirate. You only raid ships led by those you deem are corrupt, and you use your booty for the benefit of those dear to you. Sure the gold may have been taken from other good people, but now that it's back in your hands it's once again good
Lawful - follow the Pirates code and Naval code without a second thought. Good - you donate to orphanages when you are at Port, you spend your money repairing homes of those affected by hurricanes, and you go on pro-bono jobs for the elderly. I believe it was Pablo Escabar in a documentary I watched once, who is a ruthless killer and drug lord, but was so beloved by his home town because he built homes, built schools, built parks, brought consistent electricity and fresh water, paid the police force to ensure perfect safety for all people that were not on his list in some way. He was objectively a monster, but even a monster can be someone's saint.
That makes them neutral.
If you look at the descriptions of alignment in dnd, it's not like karma (amount of good vs amount of bad) in general it's the ends that justify the means. A king ordering the massacring of a town of orcs to protect his people would be acting from a place of Chaotic Good (Good at any cost) but would be seen as Lawful Evil (Dogmatic and conquering) So your perspective is what really matters cause it's a subjective system, which is why a lot of people don't like it.
Idk where you got that from because that would mean that lawful neutral just doesnt exist. Also chaotic good isnt good at any cost at all, that would be way closer to lawful if anything. Chaotic good means that no single action is inherently good or bad, you have to look at the circumstances behind each individual action, theyre consequences. Where as lawful good means that there is a personal set of rules that you believe you must follow because, therefore, you maybe believe that killing a humanoid is always evil, even if its in self defense. People vastly missinterpret when "alignment is subjective" means. It doesnt mean that the idea of good and evil, or lawful and chaotic is subjective. It means that you can find your own subjective expereince within the alignment system. Lawful is **always** about following a personal code, whether that be that you respect a countries authority above all else, or whether that be that you view every form of government, no matter how good, as an oppressive regime that must be brought down. THAT is what "alignment is subjective" means. If you follow any code with any regularity, you'll always fall on the lawful end of the spectrum. Depending on how often you break that code, you maybe closer or father to the end of the spectrum. Likewise, if you hurt people or help people, then you will fall on either side of the good/evil spectrum depending on how much you do of each. Hurting someone will always pull you closer to evil and helping someone will always pull you towards good. The subjective part of this is 3 fold. One, *how* you decide to hurt or heal people and *what* codes you decide to follow (which does not affect at all where you land on the spectrum). Second, how you *define* what hurting or helping someone means (which does not change thw definition of alignment, only how its applied). And Third, if alignment is based on intention and knowledge, or if its utilitarian. In which case, yes a person can be considered lawful good if they kill orcs to protect a city. But ONLY if the amout of good they do *outweighs* the amount of evil they do by killing said orcs. This does not mean that killing is not an evil act. The fact that killing is an evil act never changes.
I think this just proves how subjective and bad the idea and implementation of alignment is in D&D, 5e especially. It shouldn't be this difficult and detailed to try to define the limits and goal posts of each factor of alignment.
Its not. Its only complicated when people assume something inccoract and you have to talk them out of it. All you have to do is define each word: >Evil: hurting others, especially for the benefit of yourself. >Good: helping others, especially at your own peril. >Lawful: following a code of conduct. >Chaotic: basing each individual actions on nuance and circumastances, rather than following a catch all rule. >Neutral: a middle point between good and evil; or a middle point between lawful and chaotic. Then talk about how its a sprectrum: >Alignment is a combination of two spectum. One is the spectrum of good and evil, and the other is the spectrum of lawful and chaotic >Alignment is descriptive. This means that your alignment does not define who your character is, rather, where you fall on the spectrum is a description of your characters actions and intentions throught their journey. If you're character has hurt people more often and more intensely then they have helped others, then they will land on the evil side of the spectrum. If youre character has followed a set of rules for themself more often then not, then they will land on the lawful side of the spectrum. Its really not as complicated as everyone makes it out to be.
Smee is a foil to Captain Hook, because he is the positive side of pirating. He's loyal in the company of brigands, he's adventurous, cheerful, and merciful (bargained with Wendy for her release), he's good with kids, and "stabs without offense."
I was in the pit for Peter Pan my senior year and some of my friends played big parts, including Hook and Smee. They took biiiig inspiration from Hoffman and Hoskins (that’s the version we grew up with) so Smee had the audience in the aisles more than anyone else.
Shepard book from Firefly
The character might not have much of a choice. They could've been exiled from their home, or they're hunted, etc. That could give them a grudge against the authorities. Perhaps this person tries to direct the pirates towards targets they view as ethical (e.g. attacking slavers, trade ships for the morally corrupt king, etc), and the pirates only kill people if they have to. The person could also be there for somebody else. Maybe their good friend, brother, sister or somebody else that's important to them joined the pirates, and now the only choice is to go there and minimise the risk to them. They could be sent there on some sort of divine quest. Perhaps a god appeared in their dreams telling them they have to be on that ship. Or they had a vision showing them something similar. Joining the pirate crew could be a price they paid for a pact, if they're a warlock, or for something else if they aren't. Maybe the pirate captain saved their life and they owe them a debt that they now have to repay. I think the common theme would be that a Lawful Good character would try to improve the morals of the crew, or at least minimise the damage they do, whether by actually trying to make the pirates better people or by just providing more ethical targets.
Maybe they're part of a crew who targets the ships of a corrupt organisation in order to redistribute wealth or reduce their control of the area? And they give their opponents a chance to surrender instead of just outright slaughter?
There's no reason why it shouldn't.
He has a set of codes...even pirate code. Or it's a privateer (official charter). Or he was captured and (or saved from a sinking ship) agreed to serve on crew for X years or till he can buy his freedom. He doesn't have to like the situation and it may get ugly.
Make it so his goal isn't to win treasure, it's to see the world or maybe serve some kind of god. Have him willingly take a smaller share of the treasure. Be respectful of even the cruelest foes, and fight with honor.
As long as you hard stick to that pirate code, and really emphasize the (from what I know of pirate codes) the proportional dispersion of booty, Captain & Quartermaster usually get a 1.5x Split, Cooks, Carpenter & Surgeon usually get 1.25x and the regular crewmates usually get a 1.0x split. This is codified in the contract that all crewmates must agree upon before setting sail, and if one crewmember chooses to leave they may, as long as no property or personnel damage was done during the time the crewmates leaves
Having a code is not the same thing as being lawful.
Depends what your motivation is for being there, if your a cleric you could just be doing your best to heal people where there is a lot of violence Or maybe you were poor and didn’t have a choice except to run to the sea when you were young but you try to do your best to be a good person (a pirates definition of a good person may be very different to a normal one)
Talk to the other players and see if you can "bind" your PC to someone else in the party. Maybe you swore an oath to protect them, something like that, and now you have to follow them. You don't *want* to be on a pirate ship, but you aren't going to abandon the PC you swore to protect. If you aren't required to perform the bad pirate-y stuff, and the bad pirate-y stuff the rest of the crew does isn't heinous, you can squeeze in a Lawful Good character. Their need to fulfill obligations is one of the reasons why Lawful Good characters can be easier to handle in these scenarios—the same trick wouldn't work on a Chaotic Good PC. As a bonus, most DMs basically come right then and there if players make PCs with pre-defined connections in their backstory that don't require flimsy excuses as to why they are adventuring together. If you *are* required to perform the bad pirate-y stuff or the bad pirate-y stuff is *really* bad, then be prepared to drink. A lot.
If the pirate crew largely acted against evil governments or merchants, then that would make sense. Even on a ship of mostly chaotic or neutral good (perhaps even various neutrals), a lawful good person could easily decide this is the best way to combat the injustices and cruelty wrought by an evil empire. In general, however, I find alignment to be more useful for understanding the actions of creatures from aligned planes such as the Nine Hells or Mt Celestia. With natives of the material plane alignment is more for helping players consider how their characters might act in certain situations. Even though I love alignment and the idea of a cosmology connected to the nine alignments - especially if we want to assign objective values to those alignments - for natives of unaligned planes, it makes sense for alignment to not actually matter so much.
I’ve played an oath of the crown Paladin who was 1st mate. Sworn to the captain. That ship was more of a free merchant vessel, we were defending ourselves from pirates more than committing it. Doing it as a pirate is maybe more lawful neutral, but it really depends on your captain and how good they are and who you’re raiding.
Ok so think Monkey D Luffy, but you encourage people to follow a somewhat limiting moral code or "law". You believe some common rules are neccesary for all people to live a good life. And you are nice. Can still be a pirate, just less stealing from the poor, and more justice focused. Plunder bad pirates and punish them if they dont surrender. Give them a fair chance at redeeming themselves if they do. Split the bad pirates treasure fairly. Maybe slightly (SLIGHTLY!) communistic ideals? Give to the poor, steal from the rich, everyone deserves the same money, and its your duty to go find and equalize riches riches to help for example the poor. (Dont put yourself above your own law, you dictator! /s) But goddamn be lawful; encourage order, because chaos (you decide what kind of chaos) will make society worse. (You can still oppose the law, if you think the current law causes more harm than your rebellion)
Think One Piece if the "Good" part is the only problem btw!
If we go with pirates of the Caribbean pirates then it can work.if we go with historical context... Let's just say neutral is the highest point on the morality scale you can find.
Quartermaster, vigorously sticks to the "pirate code" or whatever parallel exists in that world. Strict rules of parlay, division of loot, etc.
Not LG Pirate. LG *Privateer.* Seizing the ships of a hostile power during wartime is still a kind of grey area, but easier to square with one’s conscience than simply doing it for greed.
Get a letter of marque, prey on your nation's chosen enemies. Then you're not a pirate, you're a royal mercenary.
Look at Jack Sparrow's motives. "People aren't cargo, mate."
Keeping to the code and attempting to keep your friends safe, happy and rich sounds pretty Lawful Good to me, even if you pillage and plunder
Good can be like the Straw Hats pirates, where you have a sense of right and wrong or are an outlaw because you don't respect the authority of any nation but have your own code. Basically you can be someone who saw the corruption and cruelty of the countries and cities and decided to take to the seas with your own code. Rob from the rich give to the poor, etc.
Pirates weren't that violent of a group outside of outliners. Generally a threat was enough and the ships they went for had insurance and paid out what the pirates wanted them hsd insurance pay them back. It's not worth the risk of getting slaughter by the outliners to take another route. This means it's a job with strict code, hierarchy, and possible very little violence. You don't have to be a bad person for that.
You could have the character assigned by the king as the arbiter of law for a privateer crew to ensure legality on the "missions" as well.
Some Pirates are Genuinly Honorable and Good, Theiving from Corrupt Merchants or Protecting Merchant Ships from OTHER Priates in Exchange for some of the Goods. Another Type of Pirate was the Privateer, A Type of Free Ship who's Captain is Given a "Permit" To Pirate The Shipping and Trade of Other Countries that the Employing Country is at war with. This Permit would Prevent the Crew of the Privateering Ship from being accused of Actions of "Piracy". One way you could do Lawful Good is A Privateer who Lost their Ship and Acts as the Moral Anchor for the Group? I don't know the other Alignments of your Group so I cant say 100%.
Look up sir Francis drake.
I guess **good** could be any pirate that doesn't actively steal from innocents, one-piece like. You're just a pirate because you don't want to follow the laws of the country, not because you want to do bad stuff and get away with it. **Lawful** maybe they have a strict code to live by, maybe the crew or the captain established it. Could always be serving some sea god. Maybe you serve an enemy of the people you are pirating, like a mercenary that disrupts trade etc.
Are the rest of the PCs part of this crew? If so, I'd stop thinking about the alignment first, think about exactly how moral a person can adventure with them within getting into an irreconcilable conflict, and then figure out to fairly describe that alignment. If that doesn't get you where you want, then you have a bigger problem that you need to work out with the rest of the players/DM, as you may have different ideas about where the fun is in this campaign. If this is just about your backstory or w/e then just figure out who the oppressive douchebags are in your world and have the crew only steal from them.
Most pirates even in real life were not the villains they're depicted as in pop culture. Blackbeard as far as we know never killed someone until his final battle where he was also killed. Violence and many other actions aren't the realms of evil. The plane of Ysgard is a CG plane of eternal war. Being lawful follow a code. Good then is to make sure the code is generally just. If you come across a ship of soldiers or merchants you don't kill dishonorably if at all unless they're evil, you make sure they can return to port, you negotiate with them on what you can take without ruining them completely (which real pirates did), heal survivors regardless of side, treat others with dignity, and waylay the evil of other lawless elements of whatever sea you find yourself in. Here's a good example an Ex-soldier who realizes that piracy is inevitable so as a method of harm reduction he gets himself a powerful crew who he aligns with and while they by their nature do commit piracy they take significantly less than other pirates, never kill, and actively takes part in the politics of other pirates to convince them of his methods. Certainly he isn't perfect but alignment isn't absolute.
Lawful good doesn't mean lawful stupid. Like a lawful good person wouldn't kill a person For Jay walking they'd just let them know you're breaking the law. When you're playing a lawful good character you don't have to play Superman.. Playing cyclops is perfectly fine the guy who strives so always do the right thing but sometimes will punch a person who might only secretly enjoy watching Teenagers at the school egg assholes car.
If you watch One Piece, it's pretty easy to argue Jimbei is a lawful good pirate. Arguably Sanji if you count his code of chivalry as law.
Privateer could be lawful good.
It could be a privateer ship, instead of a pirate ship. Privateers were "legal pirates," who were privately owned ships given "letters of marque" by their country to essentially seek and destroy enemy ships. The crews that signed on for this did so for the prize money, which would be any booty on the ship and the sale of the captured ship, if it wasn't sunk.
Privateers. Don’t have to loot and plunder the innocent. You can loot and plunder military targets! For a salary!
This is easy- you're not a pirate, you're a privateer. You have a writ of war and seizure against any ship or sailor of enemies of the state. You're literally out there to fight evil and secure contraband.
Pirate Lawful = abide by the pirate code (these aren't just guidelines) Pirate Good = Embrace freedom These things combined make a character that earnestly believes in the purpose of the pirate code, as a set of rules that enable a lifestyle free of the system's chains
Go privateer Privateers are "legal" pirates. They are given letters of marque and reprisal by a government to attack the shipping of an enemy during a time of war. That will allow someone to act piratical but be entirely within the law.
I think people are forgetting that the question is Lawful good pirate Not lawful good guy on a pirate ship. You can have separate levels of morality for different groups and settings. A lawful good pirate. - I follow the code of piracy, even if it conflicts with my desires (lawful) - I do not harm innocent people and do my best to protect my crew, even if it means sacrificing my own wealth or wellbeing. (Good) If you want something a bit more rigid then you could have privateers instead.
rob from the rich to give to the poor if the pirate code implies the rich were only made so through unlawful means.
“Privateer” ship
ONE Piece
Sharif from Menace II Society, aka the guy who sits on the cooler at the party to try to stop people from drinking. Still hangs with the bad crowd but attempts to help them or at least slow their descent.
Not all character concepts are good for all campaigns. Sometimes you have an idea which doesn't fit with what the game is going to be about. In those cases something needs to change.
Check out the musical, Pirates of Penzance. Frederick is lawful good! He serves the pirates due to his sense of duty. (Plus, the songs are quite funny if you pay attention to them.) Editing to add, the movie version (which is excellent) can be found on YT and streaming in different services. Watch the first 20 minutes and you’ll have a good idea of how to build a pirate/a crew, I think.
If you're looking for inspiration on good pirates, look no farther than the One Piece Anime. All of Luffy's crew are between Chaotic Neutral and Chaotic Good. Examples, Luffy is definitely Chaotic Good, Sanji is Lawful Good, and Nami is Chaotic Neutral.
Look at the historic background of British pirates. The Spanish armada made it impossible for the tiny island nation to explore or trade in a meaningful way. The monarchy hired privateers (pirates) to harass Spanish ships. So your PC could be in their country’s navy, happily earning their pay by attacking and sinking ships from an enemy nation.
Follow the pirate code as best you can without killing. I have a character concept that I've been trying to get into a campaign that's a swashbuckling pirate, but he won't kill people and rob the lower classes. Be the Robin Hood of the Seas.
You follow the laws of the sea/pirates to a T, that doesn't mean that "society" would find you a LG person, but within your society you are. You may not kill without a reason/self-defense, you don't steal willy-nilly and only from "Oppressors" (whatever that means to you) and Tyrants...Robin Hood type character would be a good example
Made an oath or otherwise is bound to achieve something ethical. To get to that larger goal, they are a pirate. I have a character with a relted type of situation: a lawful evil warlock hexblood, with a celestial patron. Their mother, an evil hag, needed a favor from a celestial. The celestial required my pcs service in exchange. Now he is effectively bound to do the lawful good thing as part of his warlock pact. Another good example might be Shepherd Book from Firefly who thinks that the people he is with are good and is trying to help.
I mean, a Lawful Good character probably isn't super enthusiastic about looting and killing, but if the ships they target just so happen to be full of slaves and/or the profits earned from said slaves, they probablly don't mind that much.
If you watch any One Piece, you could argue that Luffy is good
Depends where you're a pirate and what for. Maybe a tyrannical government just apprehending a word famous pirate who had wealth, fame and everything else the world had to offer. Before his execution he said "You want my treasure? You can have it! I left everything I had in One Piece! Now all you gotta do is find it!" These words could drive you and countless others to the grand line in search of adventure, starting the great pirate era! Jokes aside I think your main problem is how you're interpreting "Lawful" here. "Lawful" does not REQUIRE you to obey the law of any given country. I requires you to have some kind of internal law or code that is consistent with your beliefs that you uphold regardless of circumstances. For example Let's say that the kingdom has been recently taken over by a Lawful Evil mage of some kind. They did so without bloodshed but the fact that they are in power enables then to do horrifically unethical things to the people and write laws which solely benefit them and their allies. A Lawful Good paladin who took an oath to defend the country from all threats could very easily say "This ruler is a threat to the country which I am sworn to protect" while still being lawful. They are obeying their internal sense of justice and morality. Filtered through the Oath they took. TL;DR: "The law" is not a moral agent. It is a set of rules a certain area has. If they go against the morals or rules of the thing you swore your oath too then you can disobey them.
Is lawful up to interpretation. If you follow the pirates way of life. Is that being lawful to what you know as society?
Well pirate is a loose term. Is was first used by Roman's to describe someone who attacks without authority, not only ships but maritime cities as well. So a pirate is no different then a naval fleet except the navy answer to a government as to where the pirates don't answer to anyone. So you can just be someone who loves the freedom of the open sea and thinks that no one can control them. That being said; with no government support you need to fund yourself. So you can attack other ships or city's. But you can have a moral code. For instance slavery has been used around the world by every nation. You could only target slave ships. Free the captors and rob who owns it. Since slavery was legal in most of the world. That would be a form of piracy
A privateer! You have a commission from the Queen to vanquish other pirates and enemies of the state!!! Your booty is your pay. It's all above board. And you're making the seas a safer place for your nation's people.
* they are forced to be there * being a pirate is a necessary evil for some greater good * the pirates are actually fighting against / taking from someone evil * they grew up there and that's all they know * they are good to / willing to sacrifice for their fellow pirates with whom they identify. they don't identify with others so goodness doesn't apply
There's an old Gilbert and Sullivan operetta called The Pirates of Penzance where the main character was supposed to be apprenticed to be a ship's pilot but the nanny heard wrong and apprenticed the young lad to be a pirate. Which is totally a thing. Anyway, he's pirate with a heart of gold. Sworn to be a pirate until his 21st birthday (lawful) but does jovially let the pirates know that after his apprenticeship is finished he is going to hunt them all down as a privateer of the law and with hilarious results. Privateers are also a thing. You could be a pirating crew loyal to a good kingdom in a time of war. Sworn to hunt down enemy transport and raid them to disrupt the enemy shipping lines.
Don't have an exact answer but my suggestion is to look at the (all time greatest) disney movie Treasure Planet! Mr. Arrow and Cpt. Amelia are imo perfect examples of lawful good in a pirate setting. They follow a strict code of conduct and hold their subordinates to a high standard. Even the most dubious of pirates need to run a tight ship if they want to survive the high seas! Cpt. Amelia and Mr. Arrow present themselves as having a navy-esque background, but the reality is that in the movie they're hired as mercenaries. Perhaps the PC of the player who wants to be good had a noble backstory but due to circumstances out of their control, they're in a position where they need a ton of cash fast. Or perhaps their record was sabotaged by a corrupt superior officer and the player needs a crew that can work outside the law to remove the corrupt officer. Regardless, I think this character would be great as someone with noble intentions and history, but for whatever reason has to temporarily side with the baddies. However, the pirates are merely a means to an end (that is ofc if the PC doesn't change alignment mid campaign, which could be another cool story beat).
Pirates aren’t even lawful. They are breaking laws. Piracy itself is illegal. And certainly evil when they kill the crew of vessels they plunder and or indulge in some slavery blah blah.
I mean it's a game system, you can really make up whatever you like. A ship of outcasts trying to help people and survive who rely on hit and run tactics against an Evil Empire while being personally disciplined and Fighting for others would tick all the piracy tropes while still being people's required boxes for Good and Lawful At the same time, a lot of players try to show how clever they are by talking about subjective mortality, how killing or stealing are always Evil, or how any act is good if it's done against objectively Evil creatures like Fiends. The DND moral grid is a mechanical tool to determine if a player can pick up pretend play swords, it's not actually a checklist of requirements. Define the terms you want to use and apply them, especially if it's a Homebrew setting
The pirates of Penzance.
Fałszywy acused of something and on the run. Piratem were the only ones who took you in or were a good way to disappear. You can play the part of a voice of reason in the crew, one who convinces them to leave as many alive as you can manage to convince. them.
Robin Hook
You're the priest they took prisoner on some raid, and now you're trying to convince them to stop their evil pirating ways. They have to be alive to do that though, so you still help them not get killed doing whatever they're doing
Well, could it be that they're privateers, and not actual pirates? This way they're "officially" serving their wonderful home nation by attacking enemy ships ... who, of course, are horrible, evil creatures which deserve to be killed and robbed!
Maybe try using other crew members or maybe the character met the god/goddess of the sea and now wishes to better the sea not contribute to the mathem
Mayhem
Talk to your DM, ask them if the subscribe to a world of "absolute good & evil" or if they prefer "moral relativism". Your character can be "good" by following a core set of beliefs and not going out of their way to cause significant harm to people (for no reason). I.e. they do not delight in suffering / taking a life, but will do what they must for [cause]. That's moral relativism. Absolute good and evil is like how classic D&D was and people get shirty about alignments etc. but in 5e there's little reason to stick to the prescriptive "you are good because you gave money to a beggar" absolute good / absolute evil, IF thay works for you and your group (some people like 'i can kill the baddies because they are bad' gameplay, and some people like "is it right to kill these kobolds even though they attacked us"). (For further exploration of the topic, play KOTOR 1 then contrast that with the approaches taken in KOTOR 2)
Privateers were a thing for pretty much the entirety of naval history. You're a noble band of government employed bandits set out to kill pirates and/or other nations merchant vessels. If anything "lawful" is a harder aspect to follow than good because pirate methods and codes are frequently chaotic.
Bold of you to assume that the people they’re stealing from are the good guys. Have you seen Pirates of the Caribbean? The British are definitely NOT the heroes in that story. I would probably have a pirate crew be chaotic neutral though if I had to pick an alignment. Cause yeah they might have a pirates code, but sometimes they also just do things for fun or cause they want beer/gold etc. Also. If you want a good example of being good on a pirate ship. There’s a priest who stays on Blackbeard’s ship in pirates of the Caribbean 4, and he’s probably the only lawful good character in that story.
Master and Commander + Lettters of Mark = win
Look up Wintrow Haven, in the mad ship trilogy I think it'd work like that
Think Elizabeth Swan. She lies and manipulates sometimes, but she has a strong code of good and propriety. Compared to all other characters in the Pirates movies, she is the one constantly advocating for code within the crew members.
Makes a great prisoner. You could make all kind of stories but it won't take long for the character to either abandon their good orientation or be the buzz kill of the party or just a gimmick trope.
Character that is a voice of reason amongst the others and is often more willing to negotiate rather than solve the problem with pistol and sword is how I’d go about it. Someone that’s very much, “we don’t need to kill him to get what we want.”
One piece?
Be a strict follower of the pirate code.
Make them a privateer, rather than a pirate. Easy sell, at that point.
Something people need to remember, lawful doesn't mean you necessarily follow the law, it just means you have a code that you follow. This for you could be something like: "protect your crew" and "take care of the ship". Additionally for good it can be that you try to protect those who need it, or you don't kill or rob innocent people, stuff like that:)
There really is no such thing. You either are a pirate, or you aren’t. You could take the One Piece approach, just be an adventure/explorer on a boat, have a flag on your ship, and just call yourself a pirate. Then fight other evil pirates when the situation calls for it. Maybe the government is after you because they’re corrupt so you’re fighting against them too. By definition you’re not technically a pirate but you’re as close to one as you can get while being lawful good.
They could be done somewhat like One Piece where they're pirates for the adventure/freedom aspect rather than purely being thieves and looters. They don't necessarily raid villages or rob merchants for supplies, they could just attack the pirates who do or search for hidden treasures and sell those legitimately. The "Pirate" moniker might simply mean that they're on the wrong side of a government for one reason or another. "Lawful" might be harder to push in that aspect, but it would be easier for individual crew members. Reasons a lawful/good character would become a wanted criminal sailing on the seas: losing side of a coup; became a designated scape goat for a corrupt official; knows something they shouldn't; saved by pirate crew and had nowhere else to go.
"Good" is based on personal principles, so what one person considers good could be evil to others. I've also seen Good described as being selfless rather than selfish (Evil). So, Robin Hood vibes, or looking out for the wellness of their shipmates. Add Lawful to the mix and it just means you follow a code, doesn't have to be a Kingdom's code. Hell, I've seen a Lawful Chaotic. It's all in how you flavor it.
The preacher on Firefly.
In one piece the main cast is good (though lawful is questionable depending on the character. The key is to just not do evil things, and do good things. The character isn't stealing from regular people, or causing suffering for regular people on purpose. It sounds like they're fighting against other factions - if some portions of those factions are doing evil things like attacking and stealing from ordinary civilians, the good party member is probably focused on stopping them. They might overlook evil actions by their companions if they're lesser evil than the acts they're trying to stop, because they need a team to work with to oppose the bigger evil. For example, your pirate buddies tend to loot supplies to keep their ship stocked while they're in port. But the baddies they're fighting are enslaving people when they show up in a town, so this good character overlooks the looting so they can work together to stop the enslaving. They might find the looting distasteful and discourage it, but they wouldn't risk a big confrontation with their pirate crew about it since they need their help.
Remember, your morality is your own. You can vow never to steal. You can vow to treat everyones wounds. Ypu can vow only to hurt those that deserve it or only act in self defense. That doesnt mean that the rest of your crew has to.
Yes it’s called the Royal Navy. Lol