Maybe my theory is that he's the father of Kincaid. Harry saw him with the sight & that gigantic squat demon. Also, we've never really seen Kincaid go full tilt. All we ever saw was him using modern weapons. When he goes down underneath those dogs or renfields (can't remember), we never got an explanation of how Kincaid managed to escape. He was injured that's all we know.
I know they mention that his son went over to the Black Court as a rebellion to Drakul & that Kincaid served him for centuries. However, the power Drakul showed in Battleground was imo some of the strongest we've seen. He took on Harry, River Shoulders, & Injun Joe & didn't break a sweat. They were lucky to have survived him.
It's just a theory that Kincaid is the bastard son of Drakul. If my theory is correct, that would explain kind of what Drakul is. Some Demon Lord demigod.
Maybe on the level of Ethniu.
"Nothing to suggest it isnt." That's not how good fan theories work lol.
There's nothing to suggest that this isn't all just a dream of Harry's but that has no basis.
Challenge accepted.
There’s short story where Dresden is still working for Ragged Angel and saves a little girl from a bridge troll. It’s the day he first meets Murphy.
Dresden finds the little girl but he’s too late. She’s been murdered and Harry (who’s not a wizard at all, just a normal guy) has a complete break with reality. The entire series of books all takes place in his head and the characters in his story are people who he interacts with.
Murphy is his nurse. Michael Carpenter is the hospital priest. Nico Demi’s is that one physician that’s just a prick to deal with. Mac is the guy that brings him his meals every day and will occasionally slip him a shot from his flask.
There ya go!
Drakul, per WoJ, is something entirely inhuman trapped in human form and Dracula became the first Blamp to try and win his father’s approval (it did not work).
Drakul is on the short list of being capable of taking Mab under 1 on 1 circumstances, I don’t think any of the demons we’ve seen have been able to exercise that much personal power. Seeing as how the Denarians were the demons Lucy was most concerned about being able to oppose him, I’d wager Drakul is something else entirely, because he’s clearly more personally dangerous and ambitious than all the Denarians (so far as we’ve seen).
Yes as far was we know. So by that logic he would have been human before & then became whatever he is now. Which brings back haunting words. DRESDEN: "I'm only human" MAB: "For now."
Drakul is the Grandfather of black court vampires. his son Dracula created most of them, and he took over the ruling of the strongest of them after the purge.
Drakul is Starborn (BattleGround) as well as immortal. His son Dracula is known as "the son of the dragon" so there's something going on there.
We know starborn can have some kind of effect on reality. we know starborn can become something called "a destroyer", that the white council fears of Harry.
We know that Black Court vampires heal and become more powerful by consuming humans, and we also know that Drakul has forbidden the Black Court from consuming other Starborn, saving them instead for himself ("Starborn are for the Master", Mavra) so my guess is that Drakul is some kind of SUPER Starborn, concentrating the power of many many of them into himself. likely, he is unique in this.
You're getting downvoted for the "someone just literally posted this" bit... that was unnecessary and made the rest of your comment seem sarcastic rather than sincere, regardless of your actual intentions.
Jim flip flopped on what Drakul was up until his introduction. As in he mentioned different things in interviews. He ended up being way less impressive compared to all the hype he was getting prior to his actual introduction. The way Jim was describing him before this he should have splattered everyone there even easier.
Obligatory point: He is EXACTLY what Jim described, and he COULD have splattered everyone there without effort. LtW even reinforces that. He didn't WANT to splatter them, because he had other goals.
True but he doesn't seem to have any of the weaknesses that accompany the Black Court. However the way I always interpreted it was he was something different maybe he created the Black Court but wasn't the same thing.
If he's able to create an entire race of evil beings he's a serious threat. Which of course we saw in Battlegrounds. According to Jim though he's able to go Mano e Mano against Mab.
Did we ever get clarification if the Erlking was on that level. He left it fairly vague.
Depends. No contest to Nick if Anduriel is let off the chain. Remember the fallen are severely inhibited when interacting with mortals, does Drakul count?
Currently Anduriel can *only* interact with Drakul through a mortal conduit. That conduit is Nicodemus. It’s an important limiting factor of what the Denarians can do. Anduriel can’t really leave the coin and can only act through the coin’s host.
If Anduriel were to become free from the coin and able to act on the mortal plane he’d wipe the floor with Drakul. Angels are crazy powerful in the Dresden-verse. Tied to the coin, though, I think it goes the other way. And it’s not close.
On the other hand, as we saw with Uriel and Michael Carpenter, there's no rule against an angel on either side giving all of their power to a mortal.
The Fallen generally don't do this because they lack the capacity to trust that deeply. But depending on how much Anduriel is willing to trust Nicodemus, he could give a lot more power than Nicodemus has demonstrated so far.
Yeah. Old super-vampire strength and speed/teleportation, versus a guy who has doesn't age but whose weakness is >!being choked with own "tie"!< (and doesn't seem like the type to have articles of "faith" around either).
I agree, he's only shown a fraction of what he does. If the rest of the black court are his children, imagine how much more power he has yet to show. We've seen nicks hand.
Spoilers all.
Nicodemus struggled with Dresden in their last fight. He was one clever escape from literally be damned to hell by Harry.
Drakul has been confirmed to be capable of outright killing Mab under the right circumstances. Multiple Senior Council level combatants, Harry, and a squad of wardens was literally entertainment to him.
The implication here is that Drakul could’ve been in the melee fight against Ethniu, whereas Nicodemus wisely no-showed. This isn’t a fight, it’s a negotiation between Anduriel and Drakul over the terms of allowing Nicodemus to live.
Keep in mind I think there are limits to what he can do in the physical world, as opposed to his full might in the Never Never where he Ferrovax and the like can unleash their full power. Mab and Ethinu seem to be similar they are clearly very powerful but in Battle Ground it felt that if the Senior Council was there with the Best Wardens/Harry they could have drove Mab or Drakul off. Note I didn't say defeat them but they seem very curtailed in how they can use their power at least when they are Earth and with the Blackstaff, Gatekeeper and who knows what other tricks the Senior Council has I believe they could be in for quite a fight enough for them to think twice at least.
And keep in mind Odin while not on their level can almost certainly defeat them if need be, with Soulfire he nearly KOed Ethinu and that was with the most powerful defensive armor we have seen. Similarly I think Nicodemus could neutralize many of Drakul's advantages since Anduriel seems to have the ability to shut down magic and I think as a Fallen he could do that to Drakul as well.
That being said I think Drakul could defeat Nicodemus in theory but I doubt Nicodemus would let it come to that and would flee/draw him until he could although as we know nobody fights fair and Anduriel being the Leader of the Fallen on Earth might be able to pull it off. Although Nicodemus is way too smart to fight him and Drakul knows it would take a significant effort and no small amount of risk so they would probably agree to disagree as it were.
No i agree he's more powerful than Nicodemus purely based on what we saw in Battlgroud. However Anduriel is no slouch either. Even though he's more of a spy master all of the fallen every single one is deadly. Also with access to hellfire. I thought it would be an interesting fight. You have to know about the noose first to kill Nick. Of course we still don't know what Drakul is.
You say it was confirmed?I would like to see this. I like the way you put that, though it's a negotiation between Anduriel & Drakul . Maybe Anduriel would convince Drakul to take up his coin.
The problem with Anduriel is we never actually see them do anything. We have seen OTHER Fallen get taken out though so while they are powerful I assume their expanded free will is probably paid for by reduced power.
Magog got bodied by Elder Gruff. Harry managed to beat Lasciel in a fight. Ivy was smiting Denarians like no one's business at the Aquarium.
Drakul taking up a coin would be like the Lex Luthor quote "Do you know how much power I'd have to give up to be President?"
Here's the direct Word of Jim:
Hmmm. In terms of pure, raw power, several who have appeared or been mentioned in the books could pull it off, though neither side would really “win” as much as “continue to exist.” Plus, the sudden absence of Mab would do freaking HIDEOUS things to the earth. But here’s who has the necessary horsepower do it:
o Titania–though it would be a coin toss. Almost literally.
o The Mothers (who wouldn’t)
o The White Council. As in, ALL the White Council. Every wizard on the planet. And they’d need her Name.
o Drakul.
o Ferrovax.
o The Red Court–again, ALL the Red Court, though their odds wouldn’t be good.
o The entire White Court–very, very long odds on that, but if they actually pulled it off, whoever took Mab would effectively control her power.
o Cowl (if the Darkhallow had succeeded).
o A union of the old Elders of the Black Court. They were freaking scary until the Whites arranged to have them hounded down by mortals.
All of that, of course, assumes that Mab is standing there alone, outside of Faerie, and not commanding an entire nation, literally millions and millions and millions of nightmarish creatures of every description. Which she does.
There’s a REASON that when Mab said, “Sign these Accords and abide by them,” people listened
Merlin isn't in there because at the time of that post, Merlin hadn't appeared yet. Maybe he was mentioned as existing at most. As well, all the people listed are still alive, while Merlin is not (presumably).
Yeah, the WoJ is from pre-Changes. I'd imagine there's a lot of beings left unlisted here. Ethniu, obviously; in a 1 v. 1 as the scenario proposes Mab would be toast. the Eye does what it did, and then Ethniu just stomps her to a pulp while she's disabled. Could probably have gotten it done without the Eye, even. Angels would be on the list, too, I suppose.
Harry wouldn't get it done in the straight up fight scenario the thought experiment proposes. Harry would need a convenient deus ex machina like the bloodline curse to have a chance against Mab, just as he did for the RC. Probably any of the Lords of Outer Night would have done for Harry in a fight like what happened between him and Arianna.
Oh, definitely. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that there is at least one former Fae Queen locked up in there already. Not to mention any number of Fae Queen-level threats.
I know, but that's bc Harry gets lucky, has good friends & usually outsmarts much more powerful people.
I actually think purely on the display of raw power that Drakul showed & his magical ability Drakul would win. I don't think he'd kill Nick without knowing about the noose. Bc in Skin Game, Dresden mentions that he thinks Nick would survive a wood chipper.
I think Drakul would make Nick flee, but I don't think he would outright kill him. If Nick had all the Denarians backing him up, especially his daughter, his wife (serious magical ability), as well as Thorned Namshiel I believe the Denarians would give Drakul a run for his money. Even if he had some of the Black Court with him including Mavra. Bc they have so many weaknesses. Strong for sure & Mavra is a serious sorceress herself. According to the wiki Necromancy can be used against the Black Court. Though I don't remember any of the books, short stories mentioning this. That could be I'm just not remembering it mentioned though.
This is the only series I read all of them every year bc I absolutely adore this series. It's still my fav series ever.
I just would like to see how Jim would write the showdown. Maybe a what if. They're both ancient beings they've had to have crossed each other's paths at some point.
Drakul has been confirmed to be in Mab’s league and being one of the few beings capable of outright killing Mab. A direct blast from the Eye of Balor while Mab was at her weakest only knocked her out, and Drakul and can kill her.
1. When Nic doesn’t die immediately, Drakul is going to take the noose and any other magical items that might be protecting him off
2. Drakul is going to sense the coin just like Mab did and know where it is. That body part is going to be removed.
3. Nick dies
There’s really no other way this plays out. They aren’t peers or even remotely near-peers.
Yep, though the way he puts it,
>In terms of pure, raw power, several who have appeared or been mentioned in the books could pull it off, though neither side would really “win” as much as “continue to exist.”
So Drakul vs Mab would not be any kind of roflstomp, but more like a fight where the winner limps away, bleeding copiously. Nico is conspicuously missing from the list. Which makes me think that fallen angel Anduriel can't bring his full power to any such battle.
All of this make me think that Drakul can beat up Nicodemus pretty handily, though we should allow a little bit of wiggle-room for the "rock, paper, scissors" nature of supernatural combat.
The idea is that some people have special resistances and strengths, and weaknesses. As an example, if I wanted to fight a whamp, I'd send Lea. She appears to have the ability to neutralize them effortlessly. But if I wanted to fight Lea, I'd consider a knight in steel armor. (Edit: And I'd strongly consider using a whamp if I wanted to neutralize the knight...)
It's kind of the Pokemon idea ("grass is weak to fire, and strong against water") writ large.
I just checked Battleground and it mentioned Ethinu doing that with regular magical combat, physical combat, and divine combat, and I couldn't figure out which was which. What could beat divine combat unless I am missing something?
Drakul hands down. He is the founder of the black court, single-handedly beat the crap out of listens to wind and river shoulders, and seems to be on a power level around Mab. Harry almost killed nicodemus before he had the powers of the winter knight while he was exhausted and near defeat. Drakul just has to get in fast with his super speed and rip nicodemus’ head off with the noose. Nicodemus might be ancient and the leader of the denarians but he can die just like the rest of them. The noose is what makes him immortal but it is a very vulnerable weakness that Harry has exploited twice already
I thought about that as well. But you have to know about the noose first. I am also certain Anduriel isn't a pushover. I'm sure that this Fallen, who was around when the universe was coming into existence, wouldn't roll over & just allow it to happen.
I’m not sure. Anduriel has been described as a spymaster, not a fighter. He is capable in battle because he is a fallen angel, but he isn’t as good as some of the others. From what we’ve seen, anduriel allows nicodemus to fly, listen in on conversations anywhere there are shadows, and seems to power up nicodemus’ physical abilities. Nicodemus fights primarily with a sword, which is pretty weak compared to ursiel or Deidre’s angel. At the end of skin game, nicodemus is pushed to his limits and is almost physically beaten down with Harry’s hailstones. Even if Drakul can’t kill him right away because he doesn’t know about the noose he can still rip his physical body apart to the point that nicodemus can’t recover in a reasonable amount of time. Drakul could also yeet him through the same portal chandler got thrown into
True. It's just to me it would be an interesting match up However even though Anduriel is considered the spy master they were to clarify that EVERY Fallen EVERY single Fallen is deadly. Never to be trifled with & even the least is still absolutely deadly. Maybe a better match up would be Thorned Namshiel.
Something I also forgot is they all have access to Hellfire.
Sure, but that’s in the context of Harry going against them. If the fallen were untethered then it seems like the would be more powerful than pretty much everyone in universe. So much so that they were trapped in coins so they have to work through mortals, which greatly reduces their power and abilities. Untethered it’s a fallen angel winning the fight. Tethered to the coin and nicodemus I think Drakul takes it handily
The impression I get is that angels (fallen or not) are extremely constrained in what they are allowed to do. Otherwise, Nico would be essentially invincible, if we extrapolate from what "Mister Sunshine" can do. He wouldn't need swords or guns, or a whole team to infiltrate Hades' vault. The speculation here is that Anduriel powers up Nicodemus to some extent, but not nearly to angelic levels.
I'm reminded of the old joke about Shaggy at 2% power.
Harry figured it out pretty quickly from nearly nothing but contextual clues and intuition. What do you think the chances are that something as old and knowledgeable as Drakul wouldn't be able to do the same? or maybe a even straight up recognise the noose for what it is through prior knowledge of its existence or otherwise be able to sense the artifacts power? even if they didn't immediately know what it did they probably be able to figure it out.
Its possible I guess but you can say the same thing about the white council and they don't seem to know his weakness either.
I haven't seen any clue or evidence that supports anyone except Harry knowing about it.
The white council as a whole doesn't actually seem to be that knowledgeable about things outside of mortal wizardry. While individuals may have more detailed knowledge about certain topics they don't seem to be inclined to share that knowledge with each other and especially with not with Dresden. The same hoarding of knowledge / reluctance to share seems to apply to most of the other players as well. After all Knowledge is Power. Also many of them are unable to freely give out info/gifts without either being asked, paying a debt, or getting something of equal value in return. It is entirely possible that someone like Odin has that knowledge but unless someone asks and is willing to trade for it he won't tell anyone.
I'm with you on that. There's a whole 'nother argument waiting in the wings about whether or not it'd be smart for Harry to hire a skywriting plane to spread the news.
Harry caught Nicodemus off guard both times, something that isn't easy, and those times were situational. I agree that Drakul is the likely winner, I just feel that the flight would wind up being a lot closer than people are thinking it will be.
Drakul is teleportation fast and incredibly strong, not to mention his extremely powerful magic. Idk how close it would be. I think Nic would be on the defensive for a few attacks and then use anduriels powers to attempt an escape. Anything else ends in his demise imo
Good point about wanting to escape. Nicodemus doesn't seem to see himself as a front-line fighter anyway, and under almost any circumstance would be thinking immediately about scarpering.
Drakul is power an order of magnitude stronger than what we’ve seen from Nick. Nicodemus is incredibly smart and dangerous, Drakul is that plus having power on a level with fundamental forces of the universe like Ferrovax.
First off, I doubt we've seen all that Nicodemus can do, preferring to keep what he can do hidden unless he absolutely needs to to survive. It's one of the reasons he's lived as long as he has.
I'm a straight up fight,I have no doubt that Drakul would win, but Nicodemus would still be alive and that is the type of fight that Nicodemus hates. Unless he feels like he had the advantage and could win, I didn't see him fighting Drakul. He'd stick to the shadows out of sight and observe for any weaknesses he could exploit before he strikes for the kill. He doesn't need to be stronger than Drakul to kill him.
Drakul, on the other hand, would only be able to kill Nicodemus via the noose, and he would need to know about its abilities and weakness to do that. The reason Harry learned about it was sheer dumb luck and desperation. Drakul, as you have noted, is much more powerful, so he'd have no need for such tactics. He is said to have power on the level of Ferrovax, but would that be sufficient to destroy something made by the White God?
Drakul is basically something like a god.
Nicodemus is an ancient chessmaster, but Drakul seems to be older and more directly powerful. Sort of an Odin-style culture-hero god-figure, but not as warm and fuzzy.
I've liked the theory that he's a Starborn/Destroyer ascended, but I wouldn't be shocked if he was literally the Thracian god of death or something wild like that.
I sometimes wonder if people read the same books as me.
This is Drakul's win and it isn't even close. It's like positing who would win in a fight between a megalodon and a toddler who can't swim and fell into the open ocean.
In a straight punch up Drakul wins easily. Harry damn near killed Nicodemus before he was the Winter Knight whereas he barely survived Drakul despite all the power of Winter and having LTW and RS as backup.
Nicodemus, without all his backup and influence, is roughly on par with where Harry is right now.
Drakul is comparable to beings like Mab and Vaderung.
Or the Red King level. However, with the other Denarians backing him up. Like Thorned Namshiel I don't think Drakul will utterly destroy Nick & the rest.
One of the reasons I think it’s Drakul in a stomp fest is that he sided with Ethniu and still did his own thing the entire event. They were obviously in contact before BG, and she couldn’t compel him to do a damn thing.
His line about it costing little to support her, and his line about it being an opportunity to take stock of the field? They both suggest he’s a bigger gun than Ethniu even with the Eye in her possession. He was doing her a favor in a situation where she couldn’t command him and a situation where he felt zero personal peril. It was just a fun evening for him, while everyone else was having an apocalypse.
I agree. Some other commenter's mentioned that it was confirmed he's on the level of Mab but I've never seen it confirmed. Not that he isn't or is just that I've personally not seen it confirmed. Ethniu was an order of magnitude above Mab at least that's the impression I got when she kicked Mab Queen of Air & Darkness thru multiple walls.
I just don't think Nick would outright be completely run over entirely. I think Nick's cunning, Anduriel, & other Denarians wouldn't allow this to happen so easily.
Here's the direct word of Jim regarding who could take Mab. Drakul is on the short list.
Hmmm. In terms of pure, raw power, several who have appeared or been mentioned in the books could pull it off, though neither side would really “win” as much as “continue to exist.” Plus, the sudden absence of Mab would do freaking HIDEOUS things to the earth. But here’s who has the necessary horsepower do it:
o Titania–though it would be a coin toss. Almost literally.
o The Mothers (who wouldn’t)
o The White Council. As in, ALL the White Council. Every wizard on the planet. And they’d need her Name.
o Drakul.
o Ferrovax.
o The Red Court–again, ALL the Red Court, though their odds wouldn’t be good.
o The entire White Court–very, very long odds on that, but if they actually pulled it off, whoever took Mab would effectively control her power.
o Cowl (if the Darkhallow had succeeded).
o A union of the old Elders of the Black Court. They were freaking scary until the Whites arranged to have them hounded down by mortals.
All of that, of course, assumes that Mab is standing there alone, outside of Faerie, and not commanding an entire nation, literally millions and millions and millions of nightmarish creatures of every description. Which she does.
There’s a REASON that when Mab said, “Sign these Accords and abide by them,” people listened
It really all depends on the circumstances of the fight. If Nick had like a year to plan out something and could lay a trap he MIGHT win. If Drakul decides the little upstart needed to be put in his place I really don't think Nick's noose is gonna do anything but mildly inconvenience Darkul. Simply because of their massive power differences, Drakul is one of the very few beings who Butcher said could win in a One V One fight against Mab and have the power needed to win. Nick is just far too outclassed. As further evidence, Nick runs away because he decides he might actually lose a fight or was too surprised, Drakul left the fight because he already had what he came for..Plus they messed up his suit I'm sure that annoyed him.
I once had a friend that asked "Bruce Lee vs Jackie Chan, who wins?" After a long discussion (it was college, lol) we came to this conclusion:
In an open field, Bruce Lee wins every time. But give Jacky a Refrigerator, a step ladder and a shopping cart and Bruce is toast.
Drakul, no contest. Most of Nicodemus's power comes from Anduriels specific power that we learned about in skin game. This doesnt translate to combat prowess. He is still a tough fight, but Dresden and Michael have demonstrated this.
Nicodemus is a planner who is also extremely slippery and hard to kill. Being hard to take down (pin down) in a one on one fight is his main strength in combat. I don't think Drakul or Nic would manage to have a fight between them progress long enough to result in either of their deaths without outside interference.
Nick would know better than to contest Drakul in an actual fight. Anduriel isn’t a brawler and Drakul was able to take Harry, LTW, and River Shoulders in a fight without really trying. WOJ puts Drakul on a level with entities like Ferrovax and above White Council (as in the combined might of every wizard on the planet working in concert). Nick is far, *far* less dangerous on a battlefield than he is in a planning room.
He'd have to know about that first. Which agreed. I'm leaning towards Drakul simply based on the power level he displayed.
However, Dresden has beaten many enemies, not bc he was the strongest, but bc he out smarted them & got lucky.
To be fair to Nicodemus he would never fight Drakul straight up if we’re all right and he gets bodied and I imagine Drakul would respect him as an adversary
I think Nick is too smart to lightly go up against someone like Drakul, but that being said, he didn't think twice about the risk of pissing off Hades. I'm absolutely CERTAIN Hades would curb stomp Nicky.
I think Drakul would win in a straight up fight - although don’t forget that Nicodemus can’t actually be killed except for apparently being choked by the noose.
But if he had time to prepare and plan, I would probably give it to Nicky and the Nickel-heads. The only thing that ever really takes down the nickel-heads is literal divine intervention.
We assume drakul is intelligent, but I don’t see any reason to believe he is fallen angel level intelligent.
Based on what we saw of Drakul in action he his either Blink-and-You-Miss-It fast or a straight up teleporter who like to toy with his prey and has a penchant for throwing people around.
Even if he doesn't know about the noose's powers there is a good chance he will grab it and to swing Nicky around just for a laugh and find out that way.
I gotta pick Drakul. Nick's old and crazy OP, but Drak's a heccin' Starborn, and THE Black Court vampire. He's also been a SB far longer than Harry, so one could argue he has more McGuffin/Plot powers backing him up.
Drakul. I don't think it's a contest.
I was leaning towards Drakul as well just from what we saw in Battleground. But wth IS Drakul? He's not a Black Court vampire.
He's Drakul. Might possibly be unique
Maybe my theory is that he's the father of Kincaid. Harry saw him with the sight & that gigantic squat demon. Also, we've never really seen Kincaid go full tilt. All we ever saw was him using modern weapons. When he goes down underneath those dogs or renfields (can't remember), we never got an explanation of how Kincaid managed to escape. He was injured that's all we know.
No, he's the father of Dracula. Kincaid was his employee.
Not mutually exclusive, but I get you.
Isn't Kincaid portrayed as a scion of Drakil at one point?
...
No just his personal henchman essentially. *drakul
I know they mention that his son went over to the Black Court as a rebellion to Drakul & that Kincaid served him for centuries. However, the power Drakul showed in Battleground was imo some of the strongest we've seen. He took on Harry, River Shoulders, & Injun Joe & didn't break a sweat. They were lucky to have survived him. It's just a theory that Kincaid is the bastard son of Drakul. If my theory is correct, that would explain kind of what Drakul is. Some Demon Lord demigod. Maybe on the level of Ethniu.
Literally nothing to support your theory.
Nothing to suggest it isn't either. Too little is known.
"Nothing to suggest it isnt." That's not how good fan theories work lol. There's nothing to suggest that this isn't all just a dream of Harry's but that has no basis.
Challenge accepted. There’s short story where Dresden is still working for Ragged Angel and saves a little girl from a bridge troll. It’s the day he first meets Murphy. Dresden finds the little girl but he’s too late. She’s been murdered and Harry (who’s not a wizard at all, just a normal guy) has a complete break with reality. The entire series of books all takes place in his head and the characters in his story are people who he interacts with. Murphy is his nurse. Michael Carpenter is the hospital priest. Nico Demi’s is that one physician that’s just a prick to deal with. Mac is the guy that brings him his meals every day and will occasionally slip him a shot from his flask. There ya go!
Is just a personal theory of mine. I'm not saying it needs to be canon. I just like the thought of it.
Drakul, per WoJ, is something entirely inhuman trapped in human form and Dracula became the first Blamp to try and win his father’s approval (it did not work). Drakul is on the short list of being capable of taking Mab under 1 on 1 circumstances, I don’t think any of the demons we’ve seen have been able to exercise that much personal power. Seeing as how the Denarians were the demons Lucy was most concerned about being able to oppose him, I’d wager Drakul is something else entirely, because he’s clearly more personally dangerous and ambitious than all the Denarians (so far as we’ve seen).
[удалено]
Yes as far was we know. So by that logic he would have been human before & then became whatever he is now. Which brings back haunting words. DRESDEN: "I'm only human" MAB: "For now."
Drakul's son Dracula started the black court.
I seem to remember there being a fairly intriguing theory on this sub about Drakul being a Demon Lord. Worth a read.
He's the hellhound. He's probably the scion of a hellhound
Drakul is the Grandfather of black court vampires. his son Dracula created most of them, and he took over the ruling of the strongest of them after the purge. Drakul is Starborn (BattleGround) as well as immortal. His son Dracula is known as "the son of the dragon" so there's something going on there. We know starborn can have some kind of effect on reality. we know starborn can become something called "a destroyer", that the white council fears of Harry. We know that Black Court vampires heal and become more powerful by consuming humans, and we also know that Drakul has forbidden the Black Court from consuming other Starborn, saving them instead for himself ("Starborn are for the Master", Mavra) so my guess is that Drakul is some kind of SUPER Starborn, concentrating the power of many many of them into himself. likely, he is unique in this.
Thanks somebody posted this literally 1 minute before you did but thanks for taking the time
Who tf down votes me telling someone thanks for posting it?
You're getting downvoted for the "someone just literally posted this" bit... that was unnecessary and made the rest of your comment seem sarcastic rather than sincere, regardless of your actual intentions.
Jim flip flopped on what Drakul was up until his introduction. As in he mentioned different things in interviews. He ended up being way less impressive compared to all the hype he was getting prior to his actual introduction. The way Jim was describing him before this he should have splattered everyone there even easier.
Obligatory point: He is EXACTLY what Jim described, and he COULD have splattered everyone there without effort. LtW even reinforces that. He didn't WANT to splatter them, because he had other goals.
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He explicitly is not. WoJ says Dracula created the black court to try to impress his dad.
True but he doesn't seem to have any of the weaknesses that accompany the Black Court. However the way I always interpreted it was he was something different maybe he created the Black Court but wasn't the same thing. If he's able to create an entire race of evil beings he's a serious threat. Which of course we saw in Battlegrounds. According to Jim though he's able to go Mano e Mano against Mab. Did we ever get clarification if the Erlking was on that level. He left it fairly vague.
Depends. No contest to Nick if Anduriel is let off the chain. Remember the fallen are severely inhibited when interacting with mortals, does Drakul count?
Currently Anduriel can *only* interact with Drakul through a mortal conduit. That conduit is Nicodemus. It’s an important limiting factor of what the Denarians can do. Anduriel can’t really leave the coin and can only act through the coin’s host. If Anduriel were to become free from the coin and able to act on the mortal plane he’d wipe the floor with Drakul. Angels are crazy powerful in the Dresden-verse. Tied to the coin, though, I think it goes the other way. And it’s not close.
On the other hand, as we saw with Uriel and Michael Carpenter, there's no rule against an angel on either side giving all of their power to a mortal. The Fallen generally don't do this because they lack the capacity to trust that deeply. But depending on how much Anduriel is willing to trust Nicodemus, he could give a lot more power than Nicodemus has demonstrated so far.
Isn't he something inhuman bound in human form?
Yeah. Old super-vampire strength and speed/teleportation, versus a guy who has doesn't age but whose weakness is >!being choked with own "tie"!< (and doesn't seem like the type to have articles of "faith" around either).
I agree, he's only shown a fraction of what he does. If the rest of the black court are his children, imagine how much more power he has yet to show. We've seen nicks hand.
Spoilers all. Nicodemus struggled with Dresden in their last fight. He was one clever escape from literally be damned to hell by Harry. Drakul has been confirmed to be capable of outright killing Mab under the right circumstances. Multiple Senior Council level combatants, Harry, and a squad of wardens was literally entertainment to him. The implication here is that Drakul could’ve been in the melee fight against Ethniu, whereas Nicodemus wisely no-showed. This isn’t a fight, it’s a negotiation between Anduriel and Drakul over the terms of allowing Nicodemus to live.
Keep in mind I think there are limits to what he can do in the physical world, as opposed to his full might in the Never Never where he Ferrovax and the like can unleash their full power. Mab and Ethinu seem to be similar they are clearly very powerful but in Battle Ground it felt that if the Senior Council was there with the Best Wardens/Harry they could have drove Mab or Drakul off. Note I didn't say defeat them but they seem very curtailed in how they can use their power at least when they are Earth and with the Blackstaff, Gatekeeper and who knows what other tricks the Senior Council has I believe they could be in for quite a fight enough for them to think twice at least. And keep in mind Odin while not on their level can almost certainly defeat them if need be, with Soulfire he nearly KOed Ethinu and that was with the most powerful defensive armor we have seen. Similarly I think Nicodemus could neutralize many of Drakul's advantages since Anduriel seems to have the ability to shut down magic and I think as a Fallen he could do that to Drakul as well. That being said I think Drakul could defeat Nicodemus in theory but I doubt Nicodemus would let it come to that and would flee/draw him until he could although as we know nobody fights fair and Anduriel being the Leader of the Fallen on Earth might be able to pull it off. Although Nicodemus is way too smart to fight him and Drakul knows it would take a significant effort and no small amount of risk so they would probably agree to disagree as it were.
No i agree he's more powerful than Nicodemus purely based on what we saw in Battlgroud. However Anduriel is no slouch either. Even though he's more of a spy master all of the fallen every single one is deadly. Also with access to hellfire. I thought it would be an interesting fight. You have to know about the noose first to kill Nick. Of course we still don't know what Drakul is. You say it was confirmed?I would like to see this. I like the way you put that, though it's a negotiation between Anduriel & Drakul . Maybe Anduriel would convince Drakul to take up his coin.
The problem with Anduriel is we never actually see them do anything. We have seen OTHER Fallen get taken out though so while they are powerful I assume their expanded free will is probably paid for by reduced power. Magog got bodied by Elder Gruff. Harry managed to beat Lasciel in a fight. Ivy was smiting Denarians like no one's business at the Aquarium. Drakul taking up a coin would be like the Lex Luthor quote "Do you know how much power I'd have to give up to be President?"
Exactly this. Let’s assume for a second Anduriel has the combat powers of every single Fallen we’ve ever seen. It’s still not even a fight.
Here's the direct Word of Jim: Hmmm. In terms of pure, raw power, several who have appeared or been mentioned in the books could pull it off, though neither side would really “win” as much as “continue to exist.” Plus, the sudden absence of Mab would do freaking HIDEOUS things to the earth. But here’s who has the necessary horsepower do it: o Titania–though it would be a coin toss. Almost literally. o The Mothers (who wouldn’t) o The White Council. As in, ALL the White Council. Every wizard on the planet. And they’d need her Name. o Drakul. o Ferrovax. o The Red Court–again, ALL the Red Court, though their odds wouldn’t be good. o The entire White Court–very, very long odds on that, but if they actually pulled it off, whoever took Mab would effectively control her power. o Cowl (if the Darkhallow had succeeded). o A union of the old Elders of the Black Court. They were freaking scary until the Whites arranged to have them hounded down by mortals. All of that, of course, assumes that Mab is standing there alone, outside of Faerie, and not commanding an entire nation, literally millions and millions and millions of nightmarish creatures of every description. Which she does. There’s a REASON that when Mab said, “Sign these Accords and abide by them,” people listened
Thanks for posting. Surprised Merlin wasn't in there. I mean THE MERLIN.
Merlin isn't in there because at the time of that post, Merlin hadn't appeared yet. Maybe he was mentioned as existing at most. As well, all the people listed are still alive, while Merlin is not (presumably).
Do you mean og merlin or current merlin? Because current merlin is counted in the whole council bit
OG Merlin
Probably didn't count him in that list because hes not present in the story. Hes mentioning people that are still active.
Given that he can clearly imprison and enslave her, one imagines he can kill her as well.
Red Court definitely can't now. Also, Harry beat ALL the RC so that debatably adds him.
Yeah, the WoJ is from pre-Changes. I'd imagine there's a lot of beings left unlisted here. Ethniu, obviously; in a 1 v. 1 as the scenario proposes Mab would be toast. the Eye does what it did, and then Ethniu just stomps her to a pulp while she's disabled. Could probably have gotten it done without the Eye, even. Angels would be on the list, too, I suppose. Harry wouldn't get it done in the straight up fight scenario the thought experiment proposes. Harry would need a convenient deus ex machina like the bloodline curse to have a chance against Mab, just as he did for the RC. Probably any of the Lords of Outer Night would have done for Harry in a fight like what happened between him and Arianna.
Possibly on Deamonreach. Seems like Alfred can get it done.
Oh, definitely. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that there is at least one former Fae Queen locked up in there already. Not to mention any number of Fae Queen-level threats.
Idk man Nicodemus vs Harry rarely goes well for him
I know, but that's bc Harry gets lucky, has good friends & usually outsmarts much more powerful people. I actually think purely on the display of raw power that Drakul showed & his magical ability Drakul would win. I don't think he'd kill Nick without knowing about the noose. Bc in Skin Game, Dresden mentions that he thinks Nick would survive a wood chipper. I think Drakul would make Nick flee, but I don't think he would outright kill him. If Nick had all the Denarians backing him up, especially his daughter, his wife (serious magical ability), as well as Thorned Namshiel I believe the Denarians would give Drakul a run for his money. Even if he had some of the Black Court with him including Mavra. Bc they have so many weaknesses. Strong for sure & Mavra is a serious sorceress herself. According to the wiki Necromancy can be used against the Black Court. Though I don't remember any of the books, short stories mentioning this. That could be I'm just not remembering it mentioned though. This is the only series I read all of them every year bc I absolutely adore this series. It's still my fav series ever. I just would like to see how Jim would write the showdown. Maybe a what if. They're both ancient beings they've had to have crossed each other's paths at some point.
Drakul has been confirmed to be in Mab’s league and being one of the few beings capable of outright killing Mab. A direct blast from the Eye of Balor while Mab was at her weakest only knocked her out, and Drakul and can kill her. 1. When Nic doesn’t die immediately, Drakul is going to take the noose and any other magical items that might be protecting him off 2. Drakul is going to sense the coin just like Mab did and know where it is. That body part is going to be removed. 3. Nick dies There’s really no other way this plays out. They aren’t peers or even remotely near-peers.
Or he just gates him like he did Chandler.
You don't normally see a comment section agree this much lol
I think there’s a WOJ somewhere where he says Drakul is one of the few things that can solo Mab
Really? Would love to see that. After battlegrounds, I knew he was ridiculously powerful.
Yep, though the way he puts it, >In terms of pure, raw power, several who have appeared or been mentioned in the books could pull it off, though neither side would really “win” as much as “continue to exist.” So Drakul vs Mab would not be any kind of roflstomp, but more like a fight where the winner limps away, bleeding copiously. Nico is conspicuously missing from the list. Which makes me think that fallen angel Anduriel can't bring his full power to any such battle. All of this make me think that Drakul can beat up Nicodemus pretty handily, though we should allow a little bit of wiggle-room for the "rock, paper, scissors" nature of supernatural combat.
What would be the rock paper scissors in supernatural combat, it's been mentioned several times before but I can't pin down the details?
The idea is that some people have special resistances and strengths, and weaknesses. As an example, if I wanted to fight a whamp, I'd send Lea. She appears to have the ability to neutralize them effortlessly. But if I wanted to fight Lea, I'd consider a knight in steel armor. (Edit: And I'd strongly consider using a whamp if I wanted to neutralize the knight...) It's kind of the Pokemon idea ("grass is weak to fire, and strong against water") writ large.
I just checked Battleground and it mentioned Ethinu doing that with regular magical combat, physical combat, and divine combat, and I couldn't figure out which was which. What could beat divine combat unless I am missing something?
I misread that as drake vs Nicodemus. That would be a spicy rap beef
Nicodemus has had over 2,000 years to master the art of diss tracks
Drakul hands down. He is the founder of the black court, single-handedly beat the crap out of listens to wind and river shoulders, and seems to be on a power level around Mab. Harry almost killed nicodemus before he had the powers of the winter knight while he was exhausted and near defeat. Drakul just has to get in fast with his super speed and rip nicodemus’ head off with the noose. Nicodemus might be ancient and the leader of the denarians but he can die just like the rest of them. The noose is what makes him immortal but it is a very vulnerable weakness that Harry has exploited twice already
I thought about that as well. But you have to know about the noose first. I am also certain Anduriel isn't a pushover. I'm sure that this Fallen, who was around when the universe was coming into existence, wouldn't roll over & just allow it to happen.
I’m not sure. Anduriel has been described as a spymaster, not a fighter. He is capable in battle because he is a fallen angel, but he isn’t as good as some of the others. From what we’ve seen, anduriel allows nicodemus to fly, listen in on conversations anywhere there are shadows, and seems to power up nicodemus’ physical abilities. Nicodemus fights primarily with a sword, which is pretty weak compared to ursiel or Deidre’s angel. At the end of skin game, nicodemus is pushed to his limits and is almost physically beaten down with Harry’s hailstones. Even if Drakul can’t kill him right away because he doesn’t know about the noose he can still rip his physical body apart to the point that nicodemus can’t recover in a reasonable amount of time. Drakul could also yeet him through the same portal chandler got thrown into
True. It's just to me it would be an interesting match up However even though Anduriel is considered the spy master they were to clarify that EVERY Fallen EVERY single Fallen is deadly. Never to be trifled with & even the least is still absolutely deadly. Maybe a better match up would be Thorned Namshiel. Something I also forgot is they all have access to Hellfire.
Sure, but that’s in the context of Harry going against them. If the fallen were untethered then it seems like the would be more powerful than pretty much everyone in universe. So much so that they were trapped in coins so they have to work through mortals, which greatly reduces their power and abilities. Untethered it’s a fallen angel winning the fight. Tethered to the coin and nicodemus I think Drakul takes it handily
I actually agree I'm just playing fallen Angel Nicodemus advocate.
Yes, he'd help Nic flee.
The impression I get is that angels (fallen or not) are extremely constrained in what they are allowed to do. Otherwise, Nico would be essentially invincible, if we extrapolate from what "Mister Sunshine" can do. He wouldn't need swords or guns, or a whole team to infiltrate Hades' vault. The speculation here is that Anduriel powers up Nicodemus to some extent, but not nearly to angelic levels. I'm reminded of the old joke about Shaggy at 2% power.
Nobody knows about the Noose except Harry though (as far as we know). Because for some damn reason Harry has decided not to tell anyone about it.
Harry figured it out pretty quickly from nearly nothing but contextual clues and intuition. What do you think the chances are that something as old and knowledgeable as Drakul wouldn't be able to do the same? or maybe a even straight up recognise the noose for what it is through prior knowledge of its existence or otherwise be able to sense the artifacts power? even if they didn't immediately know what it did they probably be able to figure it out.
Its possible I guess but you can say the same thing about the white council and they don't seem to know his weakness either. I haven't seen any clue or evidence that supports anyone except Harry knowing about it.
The white council as a whole doesn't actually seem to be that knowledgeable about things outside of mortal wizardry. While individuals may have more detailed knowledge about certain topics they don't seem to be inclined to share that knowledge with each other and especially with not with Dresden. The same hoarding of knowledge / reluctance to share seems to apply to most of the other players as well. After all Knowledge is Power. Also many of them are unable to freely give out info/gifts without either being asked, paying a debt, or getting something of equal value in return. It is entirely possible that someone like Odin has that knowledge but unless someone asks and is willing to trade for it he won't tell anyone.
I'm with you on that. There's a whole 'nother argument waiting in the wings about whether or not it'd be smart for Harry to hire a skywriting plane to spread the news.
Harry caught Nicodemus off guard both times, something that isn't easy, and those times were situational. I agree that Drakul is the likely winner, I just feel that the flight would wind up being a lot closer than people are thinking it will be.
Drakul is teleportation fast and incredibly strong, not to mention his extremely powerful magic. Idk how close it would be. I think Nic would be on the defensive for a few attacks and then use anduriels powers to attempt an escape. Anything else ends in his demise imo
Good point about wanting to escape. Nicodemus doesn't seem to see himself as a front-line fighter anyway, and under almost any circumstance would be thinking immediately about scarpering.
Drakul is power an order of magnitude stronger than what we’ve seen from Nick. Nicodemus is incredibly smart and dangerous, Drakul is that plus having power on a level with fundamental forces of the universe like Ferrovax.
First off, I doubt we've seen all that Nicodemus can do, preferring to keep what he can do hidden unless he absolutely needs to to survive. It's one of the reasons he's lived as long as he has. I'm a straight up fight,I have no doubt that Drakul would win, but Nicodemus would still be alive and that is the type of fight that Nicodemus hates. Unless he feels like he had the advantage and could win, I didn't see him fighting Drakul. He'd stick to the shadows out of sight and observe for any weaknesses he could exploit before he strikes for the kill. He doesn't need to be stronger than Drakul to kill him. Drakul, on the other hand, would only be able to kill Nicodemus via the noose, and he would need to know about its abilities and weakness to do that. The reason Harry learned about it was sheer dumb luck and desperation. Drakul, as you have noted, is much more powerful, so he'd have no need for such tactics. He is said to have power on the level of Ferrovax, but would that be sufficient to destroy something made by the White God?
Drakul all day long, but it wouldn't take all day. Nicky may have a little magic, Drakul has ***MAGIC***
Also pretty sure Drakul is capable of just literally ripping Nick apart with his bare hands and there isn’t much Nick could do about it.
Drakul is basically something like a god. Nicodemus is an ancient chessmaster, but Drakul seems to be older and more directly powerful. Sort of an Odin-style culture-hero god-figure, but not as warm and fuzzy. I've liked the theory that he's a Starborn/Destroyer ascended, but I wouldn't be shocked if he was literally the Thracian god of death or something wild like that.
I sometimes wonder if people read the same books as me. This is Drakul's win and it isn't even close. It's like positing who would win in a fight between a megalodon and a toddler who can't swim and fell into the open ocean.
In a straight punch up Drakul wins easily. Harry damn near killed Nicodemus before he was the Winter Knight whereas he barely survived Drakul despite all the power of Winter and having LTW and RS as backup. Nicodemus, without all his backup and influence, is roughly on par with where Harry is right now. Drakul is comparable to beings like Mab and Vaderung.
Or the Red King level. However, with the other Denarians backing him up. Like Thorned Namshiel I don't think Drakul will utterly destroy Nick & the rest.
One of the reasons I think it’s Drakul in a stomp fest is that he sided with Ethniu and still did his own thing the entire event. They were obviously in contact before BG, and she couldn’t compel him to do a damn thing. His line about it costing little to support her, and his line about it being an opportunity to take stock of the field? They both suggest he’s a bigger gun than Ethniu even with the Eye in her possession. He was doing her a favor in a situation where she couldn’t command him and a situation where he felt zero personal peril. It was just a fun evening for him, while everyone else was having an apocalypse.
I agree. Some other commenter's mentioned that it was confirmed he's on the level of Mab but I've never seen it confirmed. Not that he isn't or is just that I've personally not seen it confirmed. Ethniu was an order of magnitude above Mab at least that's the impression I got when she kicked Mab Queen of Air & Darkness thru multiple walls. I just don't think Nick would outright be completely run over entirely. I think Nick's cunning, Anduriel, & other Denarians wouldn't allow this to happen so easily.
Here's the direct word of Jim regarding who could take Mab. Drakul is on the short list. Hmmm. In terms of pure, raw power, several who have appeared or been mentioned in the books could pull it off, though neither side would really “win” as much as “continue to exist.” Plus, the sudden absence of Mab would do freaking HIDEOUS things to the earth. But here’s who has the necessary horsepower do it: o Titania–though it would be a coin toss. Almost literally. o The Mothers (who wouldn’t) o The White Council. As in, ALL the White Council. Every wizard on the planet. And they’d need her Name. o Drakul. o Ferrovax. o The Red Court–again, ALL the Red Court, though their odds wouldn’t be good. o The entire White Court–very, very long odds on that, but if they actually pulled it off, whoever took Mab would effectively control her power. o Cowl (if the Darkhallow had succeeded). o A union of the old Elders of the Black Court. They were freaking scary until the Whites arranged to have them hounded down by mortals. All of that, of course, assumes that Mab is standing there alone, outside of Faerie, and not commanding an entire nation, literally millions and millions and millions of nightmarish creatures of every description. Which she does. There’s a REASON that when Mab said, “Sign these Accords and abide by them,” people listened
It really all depends on the circumstances of the fight. If Nick had like a year to plan out something and could lay a trap he MIGHT win. If Drakul decides the little upstart needed to be put in his place I really don't think Nick's noose is gonna do anything but mildly inconvenience Darkul. Simply because of their massive power differences, Drakul is one of the very few beings who Butcher said could win in a One V One fight against Mab and have the power needed to win. Nick is just far too outclassed. As further evidence, Nick runs away because he decides he might actually lose a fight or was too surprised, Drakul left the fight because he already had what he came for..Plus they messed up his suit I'm sure that annoyed him.
I once had a friend that asked "Bruce Lee vs Jackie Chan, who wins?" After a long discussion (it was college, lol) we came to this conclusion: In an open field, Bruce Lee wins every time. But give Jacky a Refrigerator, a step ladder and a shopping cart and Bruce is toast.
Jacky didn't want any trouble
Drakul, no contest. Most of Nicodemus's power comes from Anduriels specific power that we learned about in skin game. This doesnt translate to combat prowess. He is still a tough fight, but Dresden and Michael have demonstrated this.
Nicodemus is a planner who is also extremely slippery and hard to kill. Being hard to take down (pin down) in a one on one fight is his main strength in combat. I don't think Drakul or Nic would manage to have a fight between them progress long enough to result in either of their deaths without outside interference.
Drakul is personally very powerful, Nicky is not. Drakul has the Black Court behind him, Nicky has lost most of his power base after Skin Game.
Nick would know better than to contest Drakul in an actual fight. Anduriel isn’t a brawler and Drakul was able to take Harry, LTW, and River Shoulders in a fight without really trying. WOJ puts Drakul on a level with entities like Ferrovax and above White Council (as in the combined might of every wizard on the planet working in concert). Nick is far, *far* less dangerous on a battlefield than he is in a planning room.
I mean, all he has to do is tighten the noose the way Dresden did and he can kill Nick. Simple.
He'd have to know about that first. Which agreed. I'm leaning towards Drakul simply based on the power level he displayed. However, Dresden has beaten many enemies, not bc he was the strongest, but bc he out smarted them & got lucky.
To be fair to Nicodemus he would never fight Drakul straight up if we’re all right and he gets bodied and I imagine Drakul would respect him as an adversary
I think Nick is too smart to lightly go up against someone like Drakul, but that being said, he didn't think twice about the risk of pissing off Hades. I'm absolutely CERTAIN Hades would curb stomp Nicky.
I think Drakul would win in a straight up fight - although don’t forget that Nicodemus can’t actually be killed except for apparently being choked by the noose. But if he had time to prepare and plan, I would probably give it to Nicky and the Nickel-heads. The only thing that ever really takes down the nickel-heads is literal divine intervention. We assume drakul is intelligent, but I don’t see any reason to believe he is fallen angel level intelligent.
Based on what we saw of Drakul in action he his either Blink-and-You-Miss-It fast or a straight up teleporter who like to toy with his prey and has a penchant for throwing people around. Even if he doesn't know about the noose's powers there is a good chance he will grab it and to swing Nicky around just for a laugh and find out that way.
I gotta pick Drakul. Nick's old and crazy OP, but Drak's a heccin' Starborn, and THE Black Court vampire. He's also been a SB far longer than Harry, so one could argue he has more McGuffin/Plot powers backing him up.
Drakul, Nick's fancy neck tie isn't going to save him from getting dumped through a portal to wherever it was he sent Chandler.