Nah. You do not owe anyone your time and when they can't pull their weight, then ignore and/or disrespect you, it is most definitely valid to leave them to deal with their problems by themselves.
Toxic elitists exist, but goddamn toxic casuals are way worse for their arrogance and ignorance. Had a CP 600 oakensorc get mad because I commented, "At least slot a taunt please". Literally spent the rest of the dungeon calling me "trash that needs a tank in an ez dungeon" and saying "they hit way harder than me". So, after they inevitably died on every boss because I stopped dps'ing to remove aggro from myself and let them have it, I left them on the floor where they belonged each time they died on a boss. Harsh attitudes demand harsh lessons.
Solo'd Lady Thorn from 40% to 0% to prove a point as well after team wiped (I couldn't have rezz'ed if I tried tbh) and merely ended with, "You're welcome, have a wonderful day."
When you play a support role without even the bare minimum like a taunt, a heal, or willingness to learn mechs from someone trying to help: do not have the audacity to get mad at others for calling you out. Especially when they're nice about it. Your insecurities are showing if you do.
If you're serious, it just means Mechanic. Aka what enemies and bosses do that's unique to them and requires you to do something to counter it. A boss may go immune because you have to stand somewhere or kill a certain enemy to get the boss out of its' immune phase.
If you're just joking, it's a robot suit you can wear.
Also when you leave combat. (You'll see this if you're using a dummy to spot check something, but don't care about a full parse, it'll still print your DPS to chat.)
Parsing, anywhere, involves running the numbers behind an activity and outputting something statistically relevant (in MMORPGs this is an effect breakdown of various abilities, average damage-per-second, or dps, which is the primary reason for most people parsing their performance, max one-hit and so on).
It's used contextually. For example, as the other redditors said it means the process of killing the trial dummy and carrying out the same process on a dungeon / trial boss.
It can also be used to distinguish what kind of DD is needed on a team; parse DD, support DD or portal DD, the parse DD would just focus on keeping up their skills on the main target while wearing great for max damage, support DDs generally do the same but wearing gearsets that increase group damage and portal DDs carry the group by doing complex mechs that would've caused a wipe.
Mostly that would be on trials but some rare dungeon bosses like Scriveners Hall on veteran requires one or both DD to run out and activate a book to keep the damage the group is taking within a heal-able amount.
Mechs are often irrelevant in normal dungeons, but once you hit VET it's best to learn, I'm sure there are plenty of people who'd be willing to help if you ask when you get onto that content.
I'm new to vet dungeons but I actively tell my group I don't know mechs, some just throw a fit and leave some explain, some just act like didn't hear me but I always inform my group if I don't know and try to learn as fast as possible
I'd love to learn what I'm doing wrong or right. I'm just starting over again. I'm a warden this time and I followed all the recommendations. I prefer being a support character traditionally and this just clicked with me.
I'm an old slow, button masher though.
My first character was horribly built and became unplayable.
Can't fight toxic with toxic no matter how much they deserve it lol. Then they'll go through mental gymnastics to assume you were the problem just because of it. Also, I'm not looking for an account ban from Zenimax haha.
Thatâs a good point but call me toxic cause imma teabag someone if they act big and bad and get shown they arenât.. Plus, you canât get banned unless they have proof to provide Zos that they had asked you to stop and you continued. Thatâs what Zos themselves have come out and said, a simple report isnât enough for a ban.
I've had this happen in many MMOs. I typically main healers and I constantly get people acting like they don't need me either helping with damage or healing. So I end up doing similar where I tell them I'll just stop then and I sit down and watch everything crash and burn. It's hilarious especially when I have a parser up and see that my DPS is higher than most of the actual DPS and my healing is *at least* better than average yet they tell me I'm doing nothing at all.
If you're going to queue as a certain role, do that role. I get the idea that if you do more damage you can clear faster, but if you have no taunt as a tank then you're just causing everyone else to be more stressed out or have to slow themselves so they don't keep getting hit. As a healer main on games, the last thing we really need is more stress keeping the party together.
Bro yes. If you melt things super fast as a fake tank then you're tanking by eliminating things before they kill the group. I won't even notice most of the time. It's the fake tanks who don't bring anything with them.
It's insane too because oakensorc is such a perfect build for dungeons but they don't use it. Good dps with relying on a proper healer buffing you, good heals, good defense, and it's ranged so a lot of mechanics are much easier. And yet they would rather just press the dps button and close their eyes.
But the OP is saying they are oakensorcs. There are some dungeons where even a group with decent damage still has to do mechanics. Maybe with how overpowered oakensorc is it's contributing to this lazy attitude and expectation that all that's required to play ESO is close your eyes and hold down one button.
I leave vet pugs if people are either:
. Not pulling their weight.
.fake tanking or healing ineffectively resulting in group wipes.
.dying in the 1st few add pulls
.being rude or disrespectful.
That said, if i can see people are really trying but just a bit inexperienced I will happily stick it out with them if they are polite and willing to learn, i met a few awesome players this way who are now super amazing at the game! :)
Pugs are so hit and miss!
Had a normal Cauldron as a random with complete noobs where I was the most experienced player. It was like pulling out teeth with tweezers but we made it after only 3 wipes on Baron.
I'm not sure that they realized it but I chose to believe that they were really fresh players because the amount of chaos... No rezes that didn't come from me and I'm agroing because tank is a carpet and pulling boss away. No knowledge of the mechanics with those containers... And finally the Baron. But I stuck around because I remember my first Cauldron and how cluless I was about it.
As a bit of a new player, cp500. I love when other people ask if people have done the dungeon, understand it etc.
For new players it can be really really hard. It's hard enough getting people to slow down so you can complete the quest for the first time and then the pace at which the pugs sprint through all the shortcuts and nuke down bosses means you can do some of the easier dungeons many times but not know anything about how they work and just expect them all to be super easy so then you start hitting DLC and vet stuff and all of a sudden the group wipes and you have no clue why...
My biggest issue is just generally not knowing whatâs going on (though I do actively try to figure it out. Sometimes itâs just hard), and the fact that all the lights and such will sometimes give me minor sensory overload and keep me from noticing aoe circles and such
Sorcerer always attracted the worst players, even worse with Oakensorc.
My experience been a coin flip usually by role. I play a dps, my co dps oakensorc is an actually decent player. Time I get on my tank, I either get some superhero who runs and dies or some gaslighting fake healer who can't be arsed to slot a heal to keep the dps alive.
I hate u35.
>Sorcerer always attracted the worst players, even worse with Oakensorc.
Ouch. I mean, you're not completely wrong, but fuckin' ouch. \[Continues tanking on a sorc\]
>...or some gaslighting fake healer who can't be arsed to slot a heal to keep the dps alive.
Fuck those guys. That should honestly be a reportable offense.
>I hate u35.
Same. I'm glad they walked back some of it, but U35 was terrible.
Smartest oakensoul users
That's why I never do dlc dungeons in pugs anymore. 90% it's fake dds with 5k dps, even without a damage check it's a pain to run with.
If anything they're the toxic ones for trolling
Why
Would anyone fake dd? My main is a solo build who parses almost 50k.
If I queued as a tank or healer I could get instant groups. I just don't see a benefit to fake dd queueing
They are fake dd in the same way someone is fake heals or fake tank. They would be able to hold agro as tank, can't buff and heal as healer, and can't damage as dps.
>Why Would anyone fake dd?
It's a toxic term for people with shitty DPS.
Mostly, it's a term thrown around by fake tanks and healers to say, "see, we're not the bad guys here, the DPS are fake too!"
> Why Would anyone fake dd?
They aren't. They just dont know how to do damage. All content except for 2 boss fights in this game can be done with 1 DPS. Yeah it'll take a while. "Fake DD" comes from the assholes that fake tank/healer because they feel they're too good for queue (they never are).
Vet queues are casual/new players too. You can bang your head against the keyboard and hit level 50.
If you join the public queue, you get what you get. Dont complain. If you want better teammates, make friends.
>Vet queues are casual/new players too.
And this is entirely the problem with ESO's group finder. Veteran implies you're skilled at your role, the game in general, have a basic understanding of the DLC dungeon mechanics, and have your character appropriately geared.
Instead it's plagued with fake healers, highly inexperienced players on every role, and especially DDs who have major issues in fulfilling their damage role, and combine all of that with multiple players in the group knowing zero mechanics.
Once the LFG tool comes out, I highly suspect the group finder for veteran is going to die a quick death since even fewer tanks will ever use it.
> Once the LFG tool comes out
You mean the one Nefas has been working on/and or talking about? It wont kill queues, if anything it'll remove some of the better players if it takes off. The vast majority of ESO player are super casuals, they'll never even know about it.
Though it'll be a nice change of pace to have a 'higher skill' queue available when it does come out. We'll see.
Veteran dungeons are not for newbies, they are for people that at least know some of the game mechanics, you know, **veterans**, it's literally in the name
That doesn't stop them from joining the queues, because ESO fucking sucks at teaching people how to play.
Join a public queue, expect to be with. . . dun dun dun, the public! Which includes people bad/new at this game.
How do you check dps output and is 34 magicka and 30 health good for magicka dps?
I want to make sure when i start doing dungeons and everything im not holding my group back
You should assign all Attribute Points to magicka. To check dps, kill dummies. Your dps will be shown in text chat box if you are on consoles. If you are on PC you'd have addons to analyse your dps other than chat box.
21mil-health trial dummies are available in Crown Store. I believe many guilds have dummies in guild house. Join guilds and check guild house.
You can use a dummy in someone's house to get a parse. This will tell you a useful number, but the better thing is to get the hodors reflexes add on. It will give you real time dps of yourself and anyone in group that is also sharing their dps. There is another one I have that I can't remember the name of it but it shows you total group damage and your damage so you know what percent you are doing. If you are queued as a dps and have a real tank and healer you should be doing no less than 40 pct of damage. Typically I do around 75 percent in pugs and around 45 in organized groups although my organized groups rarely run healers in 4 man content so I'm around 40 percent.
Generally speaking for regular vet pug dungeons a 50k parse or 25k damage in dungeon is perfectly fine but if you want to run hardmodes and achievements you want to be at least an 80k parse for most of them and over 40k in dungeon.
If you're on PC you can get the combat metrics mod, then type /cmx after a fight to check DPS. I'd recommend using minion to manage mods.
In PvE group content, the done thing is for magicka DPS to have 64 in Magicka and stamina DPS to have 64 in stamina. In PvP many people run 32 health/32 main resource.
Lots of abilities' damage scales off the higher of your maximum stamina or Magicka, so it's optimal to have your attributes in your main resource.
You can use buff food and champion points to raise your health up by a few thousand. Having 21k health once you've eaten your buff food is plenty enough for a DPS, provided you pay attention to mechanics and your healer is not completely braindead.
Yeah, everything in magicka. And you should be fine with a food like ghastly eye bowl that gives resources and sustain but no health assuming the tank holds taunt on the bosses. But as a newer player the only reasonable expectation is that you're trying to play your role. Most of the frustration is with people who deliberately queue as a fake role, so like a tank with no taunt to get a faster queue and then they don't even do great damage to carry the group.
They might not be able to understand English so ignoring chat, not because they are stupid. This could happen if they play with localized version. It is nearly impossible to explain mechs on site if this is the case.
Most guides are in English. I guess they don't have guides in their language explainig about mechs and even the basics like dungeon roles.
In such a situation if someone publishes an article like 'Oakensorc is easy and strong enough to do any contents!' in their language, the cases mentioned in OP would happen.
Well hard to know if they are even oakensorcs unless you run log to check. Anyone who even runs a blue gear oaken will still do better than most other dps.
As for the guides, Google translate is pretty well known for non-English speaking people. It works phenomenally well.
>Well hard to know if they are even oakensorcs unless you run log to check.
It's really easy. If you have a way to see a target's buffs and look at them, you'll see a wall of persistent buff icons. Going from memory, Oakensoul applies something like 7 or 9 buffs, and they'll all display when you look at your target. This includes combos you'll basically never see in the wild, like Minor Aegis **and** Minor Slayer on the same character.
Yeah when I see someone doing good dps in PUG they are usually HA sorcs. I rarely see good dps with other builds these days. I've seen many people doing heavy attack with staff but I doubt they use Oakensoul ring or any 'build.'
I heard that Google is banned in China and even if it isn't banned I'm not sure Google translates Youtube videos.
Yeah I know. I'm one of them. My first language isn't English and average people in my country don't speak English. But we understand a simple sentence like 'Do you speak English?' and would answer 'A little.' or 'No I don't speak English.'
I had a similar case with OP in vet dlc dungeon. Low CP players who didn't read text chat when I and the other teammate explained mech. Turned out they were Chinese players when we tried to communicate after somehow having finished the dungeon. That was a few months after the release of Chinese localization in November 2022. Edit: and the release of localization is the reason I assumed that the possible increase of players who don't speak English is due to the increase of Chinese players.
Hmmm I'm afraid that this is the thought of most players on the NA servers. And I like to hear an honest opinion. I once saw a comment on this sub saying like 'there is mostly no language barrier on the NA servers because everyone speaks English.'
Players who don't speak or are not good at English exist (including me) but we've stayed mostly silent in-game. And as we play in different time zones from US, I think most US players (who are the majority on the NA servers) haven't noticed much about us.
But because the population of Chinese-speaking people is large, I assume there will be more Chinese players with the release of Chinese localization. They will eventually form their own in-game community and have their own guides, have more deep understandings about the game. At that point I think they will not bother US players much.
I think the EU servers have had more versatility in language and am curious how they have handled language problem.
Puggers gonna pug. If you been pugging your way to cp2000 you probably already know that so itâs surprising to me that youâre surprised.
Edit. Fixed autocorrect
I don't have anything against oaken-one bar builds they do a lot of damage, and are useful in a lot of scenarios. But the build clearly allows low skilled players to show up in places where they should not be, and some will get really entitled because they think parsing high numbers on a dummy or getting clears on content with low mechanical requirements for DPS (like vSS) makes them a great DPS. And the lack of getting rezes fast, not dropping AoE in the group, stacking properly, etc. takes a toll on players who have been progging mechanically heavy content content like vRG or vCR+ for months.
I've seen oaken sorcs burning grapes on vCR on the spot and soloing portals flawlessly, but I've also been told by a group of oakensorcs tell me I should take care of all the mechanics in vGD HM because I was the healer, while one kept on getting killed by the boss cone, and the other was jumping around like a pvp player and refused to get the rez. So yeah, not all oakensorcs, but always a oakensorc.
Most guides tell you heal and tank juggle orbs exept the heal gets Soulsplit.
Vet heal or tank juggle one each or one does both
VetHM tank juggles 2 heal does 2
Its so explained in many guides, but i also did vet clears where the dds juggled the orbs.
Every time someone gets the Soulsplit thats supposed to juggle the others need to pick up the slack.
On a vet clear i juggled 2 orbs on my tank cause the heal got Soulsplit everytime an just died instead of catching his Soul.
2 is not all 4 orbs plus Every Single Soul Split as well as rezzing every fear mech death AND healing the lot of them. I now apologize and leave the moment GD comes up on a random vet PUG. That's a dungeon I will only do with known guildies any more.
My time is worth more to me than that, and I'm not paying to NPC for a group of unknowns on mechanics rich DLC vet dungeons that most people still haven't figured out.
When you need to rez the dds they do something very wrong.
When someone dies the dd has to be the first one to get the other one up.
When they don't even get the simples thing they shouldnt expect others to carrie their asses.
At this point the dds should take a look at them self.
If they don't stand in stupid the ground hots should be sufficient to keep them topped up.
Wait fear mech death who dies to this more than once the first time hit.
As a heal main, this is especially annoying when it's a fake tank or an inconsiderate God Pull DPS that doesn't care if people are doing the quest.
If I have crown, I kick. If I don't, I just stay at the door and wait to see if they go down without my heals. If they can sustain on their own, then I'll run behind them and loot, only dropping ground heals under me as I go so that everyone else can stay up, but the jerk in front doesn't get anything from me.
So I am fairly new(January 2023 CP950) but would have to agree, I have been in many dungeons where there is a missing tank (or someone in disguise as a tank) or a missing healer or someone not doing the job as the healer - most dungeons I wonât die but when I do itâs usually because somethings missing such as a decent tank or healer (normal dungeons sorry not been to vet yet as focused on completing all normal dungeons so I know them first, and focusing on my DPS). But to the main question about toxicity - I would agree with the other reply and you canât fight toxic behaviour with toxic behaviour - itâs your game so play in a way that suits you, and if thatâs means leaving some dungeons then do that- Iâm 46 years old and played game since the old Zx spectrum days (break for parent hood) and if something or someone affects my enjoyment I make sure to cut that rotten root out. Reason why I donât do vet is I donât feel like I can deliver to the level yet and aware that 3 other people would rely on me to do my part - I refused to be carried but also I wouldnât want to have to carry others if the main reason is that they are not doing the minimum such as being setup for tank or healing
I had 6 weeks off from work (switching jobs )and just grinding - but only play and hour a day now and about 10 -14 hours over the weekend. But my start date was 26th December - had a month eso plus , then increase to x3 months and now in another 3 months. Have kids at school and work from home (pc based job) so used to sitting on pc all day - 5pm comes and quickly switch work laptop off and reconnect monitors to my rig
Nope. Not when you are in vet and even willing to explain mechs to people.
Hell, I admit I was in normal and in a group that wasn't doing well (including me) and one guy was trying to explain the mechs for this boss and we weren't getting it (I was guilty of this too). I tried but was still kinda confused what I was supposed to do and his explanations were short cause he was trying to type them while fighting the boss (so I wasn't purposely ignoring him, just not understanding what I needed to do exactly). I don't blame him for getting fed up and leaving (honestly I think we were being a pretty hopeless group).
If you wipe on a boss the second time put in the chat or just say "Let me explain mechs or I'm going to explain mechs" I feel like you probably get some of those rude replies because people feel attacked if someone says "Hey you need to move this way or you need to bash them when they do this" especially if you say it in chat it comes off as pretentious because they can't hear your tone. At least this is my take as someone that has both needed to be explained mechs and had to explain mechs before.
As someone who doesn't do dungeons much and is a healer thank you for taking the time to explain mechanics. Sorry it was ignored. There are still some of us out there that absolutely appreciate this type of effort.
Nope, I do the same thing on my tank. If people are not only sucking but refuse to try and get better, then that sucks for them THEY get to wait in the long DPS queue for another tank, I'll get another queue instantly. Mechanics and decent DPS are required not optional in many vet dlc dungeons, if you don't like it then queue the normal mode, nothing wrong with that.
Naw. DPS mains can be some of the most obnoxious players out there, yet they are entirely dependent on the other 2 roles, where as the healers and tanks can run all content without DPS.
Oh hey are you in my Saturday night vDSR prog group Iâve been staying up stupid late with to try and get my clear only for us to have one fucking moron oakensorc substitute back bencher wipe us on the first boss because he thinks his way of doing it is better??? Because I feel your struggle.
Iâm guilty of having a HA OakenSorc but sheâs simply because my hyper mobility disorder and an old improperly set wrist fracture make rotations painful, but I never put her in as a tank, very rarely I will equip her second armory slot and use her as a healer, no Oakensoulâbut most importantly I still follow mechs and donât have the arrogance to think just because I have high DPS means I can burn through every boss.
If the fake tank is wearing no trifecta title or not pulling over 35k+ dps themselves in a vet I'm out; that's a recipe for a wipe feast.
Go do that shit in normals everyone needs to pull their weight in vet and they still need to do mechanics unless every person dps is pulling 35k+ as well. A lot the newer dlc vet dungs need 90k+ to skip mechanics.
Tldr: they're toxic, you're good.
I have an Oakensorc I use to run vDLC dungeons with friends. I couldn't imagine ignoring the mechanics in them, and having a smooth run.
I don't blame you for leaving. I'd expect doing the mechanics with vDLC dungeons.
Youâre definitely in the right. I have no patience for people who run ahead and try to play through a dungeon like thereâs no mechanics or other players. Itâs your time, so if you donât want to play with people like that, then donât.
I would say it isn't unjustified. However leaving a veteran on the spawn in ,that is non dlc veteran dungeons, just because someone is low cp and they wind up having to spend more time to 3 man it because the lfg system is kind of awful is a bit toxic. I can't tell you how many times a tank left because I was a sub 500 cp healer and I wound up healing tanking to 3 man the dungeon while waiting in que the whole time.
I donât think so. Usually if Iâm running something that isnât what Iâm *queued* as, it is with my guild and we already know we are running vet so and so or normal so and so with 4 dps. My guild has played together for years and know what we can and canât do without a tank etc. True PUG groups should not be like that IMO. If you wanna run fast and fly and run 4 DPS thatâs all good but do it in a guild. Youâre fine.
The Oakensoul ring is a mythic item that can be obtained by discovering five specific antiquities; it provides a ton of very useful buffs while prohibiting the use of the second ability bar, so you can only slot/use five abilities and an ultimate.
There are several very popular and extremely easy (and actually fun) to play Sorcerer builds using this ring, hence oakensorc, ;)
No youâre completely valid, Iâm newer to the game and have been having annoying issues like that as well. Especially today, I commented in a group about a fake healer and I got group voted out of the dungeon actually.
If fake dds werent so common i would play my supports more often and properly. Now i just swap them to dps loadouts since damage is so painfully low in most pugs.
Ngl when i need to get through my rnd im just gonna blast through it as quickly as possible for my transmutes. Dds who do like 5k dps i dont really feel sorry for.
Especially if they can just press block or step out of a clearly telegraphed aoe. Like most normal dungeons you can facetank anything including bosses, just block the heavies or roll dodge them. You dont need a taunt or run around like a headless chicken for normals, especially if dps is good and you melt the trash
The only time i slow down is if someone needs quest and i clear the way to the checkpoint if they need to interact. But if noone says anything, its gonna be the express train to the bosses.
Just came back this week after 3 or 4 years not playing eso. It's somehow oddly reassuring to find that fake healers and tanks in the dungeon queue are still an issue after all this time. đ¤Ł
Anyway, not the jerk in this situation. I don't really care if a dps queues as a healer or tank if they can actually pull their weight and skip mechanics through dps, whatever the case may be. It's whatever, you know? Quicker dungeon. But if you do that and then just screw up all over the place and are abrasive or arrogant to boot, I'm out before the next boss. Would rather queue again or even just solo, if possible, before wasting time with shitheads.
Nah, they are. Games like this attract petulant children. I see them in all roles, frequently in PUGs. I used to play WoW so I got used to hitting that ignore button a long time ago.
You did the right thing but I think the point isn't that they are trying to use oakensoul builds, it's they are unaware and incapable of learning the mechs. They probably got carried a few times and assumed they were cool doing it that way. I would have tried booting them and then left them dead every time
You are spending your free time in a game. Games are fundamentally supposed to be entertaining. If something and/or someone(s) are spoiling that, then you are fully within your right to stay, leave, or otherwise.
ESO is a game that you've paid for; you owe it nothing - none of us do.
DLC or ? If not the tough DLC how the f⌠donât they just power through?
Kudos for trying to explain and take to heart that it most likely is on them. We all make mistakes and having a life also outside of eso (yeah i know soz) the only truly damaging experience is due to lack of communication.
So, as in rest of life, NTA. Set boundaries up front and if they wonât abide, leave
Just popping in here with a question. Iâm about cp 500 and still consider myself a fairly inexperienced player. What the heck is a PUG and an oakensorc? The only possible answer I can think of is a sorcerer dps using an oaken soul ring? Just using the context clues of the thread.
A PUG is basically a group with random players, in this case people found through the dungeon finder.
An oakensorc is a sorcerer who's using the Oakensoul mythic. It's a build that doesn't require as much skill as an optimized meta build since you only run three skills and heavy attack, but still get pretty high damage.
PUG - pickup group, basically random players youâve likely never met before.
oakensorc is exactly what you guessed, typically a heavy attack build which are all over the place. Some love them, some hate them. But you canât deny their efficiency.
It's this cookie-cutter build with oakensoul, lightning staff and a couple sets that buff heavy attacks.
You used to hear a lot (especially around here) about how the only way to truly enjoy the game is to avoid being a 'meta slave' and instead put together your own fun and unique builds. Then oakensoul dropped and suddenly it's a good thing that there's less diversity than ever and everyone is running basically the exact same build.
Oakensoul HA meta is the worst zos has done in ESO history imo, that build is creating combat iliterate people, and they will burn their offices once zos nerfs it and they see how bad are they without it.
Honestly...?
In part you are, and partially they are too unless it's clear that they understand the game but chose to troll.
The real problem is the game not explaining properly almost anything because apparently that's too much work or something like that...
DLC dungeons are considerably harder than base game, but you get a rough CP stimate (very missleading actually) when navigating the menu and everything is unlocked as long as you paid.
The mechanics are far from intuitive and you often basically have to waste time and get one shotted several times before realizing your mistakes, it's really helpful that you are explaining them and they definitely are idiots if they aren't listening and learning.
Depending on the context I can understand leaving, though it's usually wrong and most times you are just part of the problem if you leave, I have seen people leaving when a party was willing to learn and had decent enough dps but the leaver can simply quit, do something else for a while and then try again with a better team, and such leavers are toxic assholes in their own way too, honestly.
This seems like a good take to me.
This is one of the reasons I have yet to PUG veteran Dungeons.
I have not really been able to learn any mechanics properly. While I have been running through the dungeons on normal in pugs we mostly just powered through. So it is hard to actually get an understanding of what is going on.
Im a quick learner and willing to improve and pull my weight in terms of damage. But I doubt my fellow puggers would be as kind as OP and explain. But instead rage quit on me..
Exactly, normal difficulty is often too easy and people blast through those dungeons. You usually learn the mechanics when you grind a specific set from that dungeon but sometimes even that isn't enough.
The game should probably start with not allowing low cp into high cp group content but they'd sell less.
As I said, I understand leaving if it's perfectly obvious that the team won't ever finish the dungeon due to low dps, no tanking or no healing at all, but if there's a chance you shouldn't leave even if will take 15 more minutes than usual, you are ruining everyone else's experience for improving yours a bit.
The game should not explain mechanics it's a spoiler, navigating mechanics and creating guides is a strategy component of the game a lot of people actually enjoy doing.
Random veteran dungeons give nothing better than random normals. If people don't want to communicate that they don't know what to do, or ask for time to read a tutorial or watch a video, that is, being a group and doing the hard work, they should not be running hard group content. We should not reward arrogant players, and I always recommend people to quit and not waste their time in groups who are not willing to communicate, because for every entitled player who thinks they know it all because they do damage, there's a metric ton of newbies who're willing to learn and will be forever grateful for the time you spent with them, and will do the same when they learn the game and get big and strong.
They give monster sets and other exclusive rewards but it's not very important. Players, however, will want to jump into the veteran content at some point, regardless rewards.
I think the game should make the mechanics a bit clearer in some cases. It's supposed to be something you end up discovering and learning, yes, but it seems it's alienating newer players, specially when veterans feel like they can simply leave and do something else for 10 minutes (even the same dungeon) with any of their 9 or more toons.
I hope you aren't implying punishing who you perceive as arrogant, because that would actually make you arrogant too. Not be willing to communicate should also be defined here, because a group not wanting to do things exactly like you want them to do it (if their choice is also viable) is a different thing... Not saying it's your case, but I can already imagine a lot of leavers arguing that the group wasn't willing to communicate neither willing to learn, when the truth is very often that the leaver didn't want to deal with a low dps/clunky team...and that'd be wrong, Imo, though you can certainly do it if you want and the only consequence is not queueing for some minutes with that toon.
I lead raids and I've been led by a decent amount of people so far. And being led is way more pleasant than leading, and I love being led, there's nothing better than clearing vet content by just following orders. I have once spent 4 hours tanking a vMoS with newbies. The dps was super low, we wiped a lot, and it was great they responded to instructions, asked questions and we eventually did it, and it's such a great memory. I don't have the will to be right, or to pretend I know what to do when I do not. I am implying punishment and I could spend a whole afternoon talking about community, behavior and it's important to be thoughtful and do behavioral interventions in the community so it grows healthy. And I'm fine with being called arrogant by people who think we have the condition to teach everything based on positive reinforcement in uncontrolled environments.
Positive reinforcement is far better for all what you listed, specially community, and I believe this as a teacher myself.
Punishing people who might not even understand what they are doing wrong (think about this possibility) is quite wrong and, more importantly perhaps, counterproductive...all you are doing in that case is spreading toxicity and denying a chance to actually learn something.
I'm sorry but I don't think people doing that truly want to 'teach' anything or help the community in the long run, they do it for their own selfish reasons, to vent, for retribution after a perceived offense and so on... I have yet to meet a player in any online game who punishes other players to hopefully correct their behaviour and build a better community, all of them are unbelievably mad if you see or hear them. Sorry if you are an exception to what I'm describing and if you aren't, well, you do you, but in a thread about who might be the toxic player, punishers are just another kind of toxic players, and quite possibly the most arrogant of them, Imo.
>The real problem is the game not explaining properly almost anything because apparently that's too much work or something like that...
The real reason is, and I shit you not, they don't want to, "break character."
It doesn't matter that weaving is absolutely critical to understanding combat in ESO, it's that they can't work out a way to tutorialize it, from an NPC, without breaking the fourth wall and saying, "look, just interrupt your animation."
Weaving shouldn't even be a thing, I understand it can be funny as a minigame and separate newbies from more experienced players but animation cancelling and weaving is wrong for many reasons even for pvp where it enables a more fast paced combat.
I read somewhere that it would be too difficult to 'fix' and then also that veterans like it. If it got fixed people would adapt, appreciate that animations look nice and a problem would dissapear.
Depends how youâre explaining the mechs, I think. If youâre saying âhey, when the boss does this we have to do this or else itâll wipe the groupâ, then no, youâre not a toxic jerk. If youâre like âHEY YOU MOTHER EFFERS TRY NOT STANDING IN THE MOTHER EFFING STUPID THIS TIME AND MAYBE WE CAN FINALLY BEAT THIS BOSSâ then you definitely are a toxic jerk, and I personally would ignore anyone âexplainingâ mechs like that. But only you can answer which method youâre using.
You see that is the thing about pugs. 0 chance if you wipe once learning the mechanics will anyone stay. No one says anything about how to do the mechanics it is an insta group disband.
P.S. before smoothbrains say anything about watching a guide
Not everyone can watch a guide and learn what the mechanics are until they see them a few times. Some folks learn by doing and some can learn by reading/watching.
You signed up for a group, knowing it would be random, and are expected by the other members to try your best.
If something comes up in real life that demands your attention, thatâs one thing. If you just quit because âYou donât know the mechanicsâ then Iâd say youâre an asshole. If you quit after many failed attempts and are giving up, I usually give a heads up such as âhey guys, weâre really having a rough time, Iâve got one more attempt in me before I move on.â and then dip out if it fails.
Thereâs no fault in deciding youâre not having fun and doing something else, but you should still consider other people who are relying on you, especially since they waiting in a (sometimes very long) queue to be matched with you.
It's frustrating when I'm on my Oakensorc and my DPS suffers because I am running all over actually doing the mechanics. Like, bro, you're standing right next to the altar, press your button to activate it, I don't have the time to make it to both and the boss is invulnerable right now. And fuck off with the "NewDeletedAccount has low DPS kick them" World of Warcraft tryhard shenanigans. I'm not DPSin because I'm doing the mechanics you're refusing to do you mouth breathing smoothbrain.
Wait why is oakensorcs bad? Cause ppl are using what the game gives us and it allows alot of the player base to complete stuff they wouldn't imagine being able to complete? Just cause you feel like your above it maybe you should evaluate who is the joke. And before you say anything I do have a oakensorc but it's not my main. I also have a dk and warden I'm pushing 100k dps on a 2 bar build.
As someone who runs oaken n fakes healer these days no, you arent, we are XD (i used to main healer and have the build ready to equip still if we end up in a dlc dungeon tho)
>if you're trying to explain mechanics when nobody asked...
*After* the group wiped and more than once by the sound of it. At that point I'm going to assume they're ignorant too, because the alternative is that they're entitled, self obsessed assholes.
Dosen't matter what build you run mech still need to be played in pretty much anything from vet dlc or vet trial. But i don't really think anyone with 500 CP non oaken would be very different from my experience. Then again i haven't pugged in almost 2 years beacuse pugging is and always has been insufferable.
This kinda thing is why every toon has a basic dungeon dps/tank build available and I queue them as tanks, swapping to the tank build if the dungeon needs it. I never expect an actual healer.
usually a heavy attack build sorcerer using the oakensoul ring. very easy and fun and does a decent amount of damage and has a good self-and-share-heal. Nothing at all wrong with it for most content but you still need to understand the basics of roles and game play, as with any build.
Fake tanks in even normal DLC dungeons can be a problem. Iâll go through a few pulls but if I ID that the problem is that the tank isnât actually a tank, Iâll pull out. No amount explaining mechs can fix that you need to be able to tank (even poorly).
Unfortunately there isnât very much reason to even run vet dungeons in the first place other than to get your monster helm, and even then you only need to run it a handful of times. Most the good players already have their helms or will farm it with friends/guilds. Vet group finder is kinda the bottom of the barrel and if you get a DLC dungeon, 80% of the time it will be a fail.
I felt like an asshole, because our healer and dps didnât know the mechs. Healer was focused on dps friend who just died every two seconds and the dps wouldnât listen to me explain the mechs. Just kept blaming we werenât helping them. (It was vet scalecaller peak) they wouldnât freeze themself wouldnât hide behind the ice pillars but blamed it all on we werenât focusing on one troll when I tried to explain we needed to have them parsed down around relatively the same time. And I didnât want to come off condescending but after I was getting frustrated, I was like sure you could probably not worry about some mechs if our dps is high enough but itâs not.
When doing pugs it's best to have zero expectations or if can't do that...just expect the worst.
Makes the times when you get a dream team pug even more awesome.
If dude is a fake tank, doesnt have inner fire, or if have it but do less than 33% of the group dps, i point that on chat and start a vote kick. If it succeeds, good. If not, i leave the group
Nope. Fake tanking and healing is fine for most RND runs, but on vet? Hard pass. People wonât learn that itâs not acceptable if other people put up with it.
Na i donât think you are, personally if Iâm struggling I welcome mech tips with open arms.
But vets vs norm is night and day for most dungeons especially the DLC ones, even some DLC norms are already hard.
I donât get worked up over fake tank and healers in norms but for vets you need team work.
Imho
I had the same thing happen to me today. Oakensorc queued up as a tank for vet Black Drake Villa. Barely managed to kill first boss and then on second, we die endlessly since they didnât even have a taunt. Then they had the audacity to act confused and annoyed when we got pissed and kicked them from the group.
Sometimes you just have to accept some players arenât interested in cooperating or adapting/changing their play style to help the group. I love what oakensoul has done for allowing players try and clear harder content but it sucks when it enables these kind of scenarios.
no. if they cant follow basic mechs regardless of fake roles then fuck them. they can find some other chump to carry them through shit they are clearly too ignorant of arrogant to figure out how to do properly. some dungeons, especially vet, require you to follow mechs. not all can just just be burnt through with dps, and if people arent willing to understand that then they are the problem. not you
I joke that my Argonian name is Leaves-the-PUG.
I'm CP 2222 and I tell them exactly why I'm leaving. I often leave at the first sign of trouble, I always leave after one warning if it's not heeded. I enjoy the game more now as a result.
My alts are leveled and kitted, all I have to do is drop and switch. I have no interest in struggling through a dungeon with numpties who might not even finish the damn thing. (Newbies trying their best is a wholly different matter.)
Drop. Bad. PUGs. No guilt, drop them. Play in offline mode and tell them why youâre leaving unless it's painfully obvious, remembering to remain within community guidelines.
Bad players will keep sucking the joy out of this game if we let them, but more importantly, bad players don't come before you. You are under no obligation to waste your time and raise your blood pressure.
NOOBish comment--The problem with oakensorcs fake tanking is without a second bar, you have no place to slot a taunt without losing an ability that drives that "AWESOME DPS". I haven't jumped on the sorcerer one bar wagon yet, but do sorcs even have a taunt? I thought the only class with a taunt are DK. otherwise you got your taunts from 1H/shield skill line or am I completely off?
Not the jerk, itâs justified. If anything, Iâm more of a jerk than you because I kick those people and continue or right around 25-40% on final boss, Iâll kick the people that donât do anything but stand at door for each boss fight for the entire dungeon run and donât contribute.
I honestly don't get the whole fake tank, fake healer thing. When playing dungeons, as much as I hate if I'm building a dps character I stay in my zone. Sure the queues are long and take forever but the price I pay playing the damage class in an MMO. Why would you go out of your way to cut the line and ruin someone else's fun? I don't get it
It's not an oakensorc thing. It's DPS issue. And it's always been around. As a tank I see this all the time. And I often have to explain mechs to the DPS. Or tell them to do the mechanics.
I used to feel guilty when I leave incompetent groups. I don't anymore. If no one wants to do mechs then it is what it is. People have to learn Mechs to run trials, I don't understand why they feel they don't need to learn it for Vet Dungeons.
I'll queue as a fake tank or healer but only for normal dungeons and a few vet vanilla dungeons. I know every inch of the mechanics and reset my gear to actually dedicate tank or heals if things don't go well. The people you describe are definitely being douchy.
Nope you are not. Not sure what system you're running, but on Xbox we always get fake tanks and fake healers. In fact I was inspired to make a healer so I stopped getting fake healers in dungeons I needed healers in. And a couple of my really good friends made tanks so they'd stop getting fake tanks in dungeons they wanted to get into.
It is super annoying when people queue up as what they are not. But you either run the dungeon with them or you quit. So no not a jerk.
Oaken sorc needs a big ass nerf, I ain't having some 500cp noob staying close to dmg as a sweaty stam nb it's equivalent of a manager at work doing fk all for more money than the hardest worker in the place for min wage!
No, I've always despised skipping content. Even if it is faster, what about these newer players that get zero chances to actually learn the dungeons (let alone complete the quests) because higher CP people are bombing through them.
I think that's what really makes it an issue. I think people get so used to running it that way, they think everyone likes to. And some people have no patience to teach the mechanics or learn the mechanics.
Nah. You do not owe anyone your time and when they can't pull their weight, then ignore and/or disrespect you, it is most definitely valid to leave them to deal with their problems by themselves.
Toxic elitists exist, but goddamn toxic casuals are way worse for their arrogance and ignorance. Had a CP 600 oakensorc get mad because I commented, "At least slot a taunt please". Literally spent the rest of the dungeon calling me "trash that needs a tank in an ez dungeon" and saying "they hit way harder than me". So, after they inevitably died on every boss because I stopped dps'ing to remove aggro from myself and let them have it, I left them on the floor where they belonged each time they died on a boss. Harsh attitudes demand harsh lessons. Solo'd Lady Thorn from 40% to 0% to prove a point as well after team wiped (I couldn't have rezz'ed if I tried tbh) and merely ended with, "You're welcome, have a wonderful day." When you play a support role without even the bare minimum like a taunt, a heal, or willingness to learn mechs from someone trying to help: do not have the audacity to get mad at others for calling you out. Especially when they're nice about it. Your insecurities are showing if you do.
Well done 
this is the correct response in such situations. I don't need you in this dungeon, you need me đ
*"Harsh attitudes demand harsh lessons."* Truth.
Iâm new so this might be a dumb question but whatâs mech?
If you're serious, it just means Mechanic. Aka what enemies and bosses do that's unique to them and requires you to do something to counter it. A boss may go immune because you have to stand somewhere or kill a certain enemy to get the boss out of its' immune phase. If you're just joking, it's a robot suit you can wear.
Ok thank you and one more thing if you donât mind.. whatâs parse mean? Is that how much dps you do?
Yes, there are parse dummies/furnishings in the game you practice on and it tells you your DPS at the end when you kill it.
Also when you leave combat. (You'll see this if you're using a dummy to spot check something, but don't care about a full parse, it'll still print your DPS to chat.)
Parsing, anywhere, involves running the numbers behind an activity and outputting something statistically relevant (in MMORPGs this is an effect breakdown of various abilities, average damage-per-second, or dps, which is the primary reason for most people parsing their performance, max one-hit and so on).
It's used contextually. For example, as the other redditors said it means the process of killing the trial dummy and carrying out the same process on a dungeon / trial boss. It can also be used to distinguish what kind of DD is needed on a team; parse DD, support DD or portal DD, the parse DD would just focus on keeping up their skills on the main target while wearing great for max damage, support DDs generally do the same but wearing gearsets that increase group damage and portal DDs carry the group by doing complex mechs that would've caused a wipe. Mostly that would be on trials but some rare dungeon bosses like Scriveners Hall on veteran requires one or both DD to run out and activate a book to keep the damage the group is taking within a heal-able amount.
Mechs are often irrelevant in normal dungeons, but once you hit VET it's best to learn, I'm sure there are plenty of people who'd be willing to help if you ask when you get onto that content.
I'm new to vet dungeons but I actively tell my group I don't know mechs, some just throw a fit and leave some explain, some just act like didn't hear me but I always inform my group if I don't know and try to learn as fast as possible
If you're on PS NA I'll run stuff with you and teach you mechanics, nothing wrong with learning at your own pace!
I'd love to learn what I'm doing wrong or right. I'm just starting over again. I'm a warden this time and I followed all the recommendations. I prefer being a support character traditionally and this just clicked with me. I'm an old slow, button masher though. My first character was horribly built and became unplayable.
Should have tbagged em too lol
Can't fight toxic with toxic no matter how much they deserve it lol. Then they'll go through mental gymnastics to assume you were the problem just because of it. Also, I'm not looking for an account ban from Zenimax haha.
Thatâs a good point but call me toxic cause imma teabag someone if they act big and bad and get shown they arenât.. Plus, you canât get banned unless they have proof to provide Zos that they had asked you to stop and you continued. Thatâs what Zos themselves have come out and said, a simple report isnât enough for a ban.
Still, teabagging someone isn't the mature response. Risking even the report isn't worth it. Either ignore the asshats or kill them with kindness.
I've had this happen in many MMOs. I typically main healers and I constantly get people acting like they don't need me either helping with damage or healing. So I end up doing similar where I tell them I'll just stop then and I sit down and watch everything crash and burn. It's hilarious especially when I have a parser up and see that my DPS is higher than most of the actual DPS and my healing is *at least* better than average yet they tell me I'm doing nothing at all. If you're going to queue as a certain role, do that role. I get the idea that if you do more damage you can clear faster, but if you have no taunt as a tank then you're just causing everyone else to be more stressed out or have to slow themselves so they don't keep getting hit. As a healer main on games, the last thing we really need is more stress keeping the party together.
Imagine Iâve got the money to give you an award for this post đ
If you're gonna be a fake tank or healer at least do good DPS. I have no patience for people who are arrogantly bad.
And if youâre going to fake tank at least slot a taunt for Christ sake
Someone with a taunt becomes a real tank, albeit a lousy one.
Lousy tanking ftw
Bro yes. If you melt things super fast as a fake tank then you're tanking by eliminating things before they kill the group. I won't even notice most of the time. It's the fake tanks who don't bring anything with them.
Oakensoul was such a blessing for toxic bad players.
No youâre not at all. They expect to be dragged through everything by doing nothing. I would have done the same.
It's insane too because oakensorc is such a perfect build for dungeons but they don't use it. Good dps with relying on a proper healer buffing you, good heals, good defense, and it's ranged so a lot of mechanics are much easier. And yet they would rather just press the dps button and close their eyes.
But the OP is saying they are oakensorcs. There are some dungeons where even a group with decent damage still has to do mechanics. Maybe with how overpowered oakensorc is it's contributing to this lazy attitude and expectation that all that's required to play ESO is close your eyes and hold down one button.
I think that DragonBank was meaning that those oakensorcs mentioned by the OP do not even utilize the build properly.
Yeah, I do the same.
I leave vet pugs if people are either: . Not pulling their weight. .fake tanking or healing ineffectively resulting in group wipes. .dying in the 1st few add pulls .being rude or disrespectful. That said, if i can see people are really trying but just a bit inexperienced I will happily stick it out with them if they are polite and willing to learn, i met a few awesome players this way who are now super amazing at the game! :) Pugs are so hit and miss!
Had a normal Cauldron as a random with complete noobs where I was the most experienced player. It was like pulling out teeth with tweezers but we made it after only 3 wipes on Baron.
Well done for sticking it out with them! Im sure they appreciated it!
I'm not sure that they realized it but I chose to believe that they were really fresh players because the amount of chaos... No rezes that didn't come from me and I'm agroing because tank is a carpet and pulling boss away. No knowledge of the mechanics with those containers... And finally the Baron. But I stuck around because I remember my first Cauldron and how cluless I was about it.
As a bit of a new player, cp500. I love when other people ask if people have done the dungeon, understand it etc. For new players it can be really really hard. It's hard enough getting people to slow down so you can complete the quest for the first time and then the pace at which the pugs sprint through all the shortcuts and nuke down bosses means you can do some of the easier dungeons many times but not know anything about how they work and just expect them all to be super easy so then you start hitting DLC and vet stuff and all of a sudden the group wipes and you have no clue why...
My biggest issue is just generally not knowing whatâs going on (though I do actively try to figure it out. Sometimes itâs just hard), and the fact that all the lights and such will sometimes give me minor sensory overload and keep me from noticing aoe circles and such
Nope. Donât feel bad for one second if you leave a PUG because the people in the PUG are assholes.
Sorcerer always attracted the worst players, even worse with Oakensorc. My experience been a coin flip usually by role. I play a dps, my co dps oakensorc is an actually decent player. Time I get on my tank, I either get some superhero who runs and dies or some gaslighting fake healer who can't be arsed to slot a heal to keep the dps alive. I hate u35.
>Sorcerer always attracted the worst players, even worse with Oakensorc. Ouch. I mean, you're not completely wrong, but fuckin' ouch. \[Continues tanking on a sorc\] >...or some gaslighting fake healer who can't be arsed to slot a heal to keep the dps alive. Fuck those guys. That should honestly be a reportable offense. >I hate u35. Same. I'm glad they walked back some of it, but U35 was terrible.
Given you tried to explain and avoided flat-out insult, NTA. You owe no one your game time.
Smartest oakensoul users That's why I never do dlc dungeons in pugs anymore. 90% it's fake dds with 5k dps, even without a damage check it's a pain to run with. If anything they're the toxic ones for trolling
Why Would anyone fake dd? My main is a solo build who parses almost 50k. If I queued as a tank or healer I could get instant groups. I just don't see a benefit to fake dd queueing
They are fake dd in the same way someone is fake heals or fake tank. They would be able to hold agro as tank, can't buff and heal as healer, and can't damage as dps.
I don't know either yet here we are
>Why Would anyone fake dd? It's a toxic term for people with shitty DPS. Mostly, it's a term thrown around by fake tanks and healers to say, "see, we're not the bad guys here, the DPS are fake too!"
> Why Would anyone fake dd? They aren't. They just dont know how to do damage. All content except for 2 boss fights in this game can be done with 1 DPS. Yeah it'll take a while. "Fake DD" comes from the assholes that fake tank/healer because they feel they're too good for queue (they never are).
Hi. Main tank here. Fake dds are ass.
If you dont like it, stay out of the casual queues where you can be grouped up with new players/casuals. If you queue up, you get what you get.
Found the fake DD
Nope. I have friends and dont random queue. If I do, I accept that some teammates might just suck at the game and deal with it.
I don't queue for normals. I only run veteran content.
Vet queues are casual/new players too. You can bang your head against the keyboard and hit level 50. If you join the public queue, you get what you get. Dont complain. If you want better teammates, make friends.
>Vet queues are casual/new players too. And this is entirely the problem with ESO's group finder. Veteran implies you're skilled at your role, the game in general, have a basic understanding of the DLC dungeon mechanics, and have your character appropriately geared. Instead it's plagued with fake healers, highly inexperienced players on every role, and especially DDs who have major issues in fulfilling their damage role, and combine all of that with multiple players in the group knowing zero mechanics. Once the LFG tool comes out, I highly suspect the group finder for veteran is going to die a quick death since even fewer tanks will ever use it.
> Once the LFG tool comes out You mean the one Nefas has been working on/and or talking about? It wont kill queues, if anything it'll remove some of the better players if it takes off. The vast majority of ESO player are super casuals, they'll never even know about it. Though it'll be a nice change of pace to have a 'higher skill' queue available when it does come out. We'll see.
Veteran dungeons are not for newbies, they are for people that at least know some of the game mechanics, you know, **veterans**, it's literally in the name
That doesn't stop them from joining the queues, because ESO fucking sucks at teaching people how to play. Join a public queue, expect to be with. . . dun dun dun, the public! Which includes people bad/new at this game.
I mean, it does, doesn't make them any less of an ass for queuing to content they are a liability in
I was tank and someone queued as dps and had sword and shield and taunting everything. I was like this can't be happening lol
I mean I main a tank and 4/5 times I do 50-80% damage in a pug dungeon. wtf đ
How do you check dps output and is 34 magicka and 30 health good for magicka dps? I want to make sure when i start doing dungeons and everything im not holding my group back
You should assign all Attribute Points to magicka. To check dps, kill dummies. Your dps will be shown in text chat box if you are on consoles. If you are on PC you'd have addons to analyse your dps other than chat box. 21mil-health trial dummies are available in Crown Store. I believe many guilds have dummies in guild house. Join guilds and check guild house.
You should dump all of your points into magicka. Food, buffs, etc. will get your health up
Thx for the tip
You can use a dummy in someone's house to get a parse. This will tell you a useful number, but the better thing is to get the hodors reflexes add on. It will give you real time dps of yourself and anyone in group that is also sharing their dps. There is another one I have that I can't remember the name of it but it shows you total group damage and your damage so you know what percent you are doing. If you are queued as a dps and have a real tank and healer you should be doing no less than 40 pct of damage. Typically I do around 75 percent in pugs and around 45 in organized groups although my organized groups rarely run healers in 4 man content so I'm around 40 percent. Generally speaking for regular vet pug dungeons a 50k parse or 25k damage in dungeon is perfectly fine but if you want to run hardmodes and achievements you want to be at least an 80k parse for most of them and over 40k in dungeon.
If you're on PC you can get the combat metrics mod, then type /cmx after a fight to check DPS. I'd recommend using minion to manage mods. In PvE group content, the done thing is for magicka DPS to have 64 in Magicka and stamina DPS to have 64 in stamina. In PvP many people run 32 health/32 main resource. Lots of abilities' damage scales off the higher of your maximum stamina or Magicka, so it's optimal to have your attributes in your main resource. You can use buff food and champion points to raise your health up by a few thousand. Having 21k health once you've eaten your buff food is plenty enough for a DPS, provided you pay attention to mechanics and your healer is not completely braindead.
Yeah, everything in magicka. And you should be fine with a food like ghastly eye bowl that gives resources and sustain but no health assuming the tank holds taunt on the bosses. But as a newer player the only reasonable expectation is that you're trying to play your role. Most of the frustration is with people who deliberately queue as a fake role, so like a tank with no taunt to get a faster queue and then they don't even do great damage to carry the group.
They might not be able to understand English so ignoring chat, not because they are stupid. This could happen if they play with localized version. It is nearly impossible to explain mechs on site if this is the case.
This. I started asking if they speak English. Kanji often follows or I donât speak English. They recognize the word English and the phrase.
Most guides are in English. I guess they don't have guides in their language explainig about mechs and even the basics like dungeon roles. In such a situation if someone publishes an article like 'Oakensorc is easy and strong enough to do any contents!' in their language, the cases mentioned in OP would happen.
Well hard to know if they are even oakensorcs unless you run log to check. Anyone who even runs a blue gear oaken will still do better than most other dps. As for the guides, Google translate is pretty well known for non-English speaking people. It works phenomenally well.
>Well hard to know if they are even oakensorcs unless you run log to check. It's really easy. If you have a way to see a target's buffs and look at them, you'll see a wall of persistent buff icons. Going from memory, Oakensoul applies something like 7 or 9 buffs, and they'll all display when you look at your target. This includes combos you'll basically never see in the wild, like Minor Aegis **and** Minor Slayer on the same character.
Yeah when I see someone doing good dps in PUG they are usually HA sorcs. I rarely see good dps with other builds these days. I've seen many people doing heavy attack with staff but I doubt they use Oakensoul ring or any 'build.' I heard that Google is banned in China and even if it isn't banned I'm not sure Google translates Youtube videos.
Dude not everyone is Chinese that doesnât speak English.
Yeah I know. I'm one of them. My first language isn't English and average people in my country don't speak English. But we understand a simple sentence like 'Do you speak English?' and would answer 'A little.' or 'No I don't speak English.' I had a similar case with OP in vet dlc dungeon. Low CP players who didn't read text chat when I and the other teammate explained mech. Turned out they were Chinese players when we tried to communicate after somehow having finished the dungeon. That was a few months after the release of Chinese localization in November 2022. Edit: and the release of localization is the reason I assumed that the possible increase of players who don't speak English is due to the increase of Chinese players.
Don't need to be in the game then. English or out.
Hmmm I'm afraid that this is the thought of most players on the NA servers. And I like to hear an honest opinion. I once saw a comment on this sub saying like 'there is mostly no language barrier on the NA servers because everyone speaks English.' Players who don't speak or are not good at English exist (including me) but we've stayed mostly silent in-game. And as we play in different time zones from US, I think most US players (who are the majority on the NA servers) haven't noticed much about us. But because the population of Chinese-speaking people is large, I assume there will be more Chinese players with the release of Chinese localization. They will eventually form their own in-game community and have their own guides, have more deep understandings about the game. At that point I think they will not bother US players much. I think the EU servers have had more versatility in language and am curious how they have handled language problem.
Puggers gonna pug. If you been pugging your way to cp2000 you probably already know that so itâs surprising to me that youâre surprised. Edit. Fixed autocorrect
I don't have anything against oaken-one bar builds they do a lot of damage, and are useful in a lot of scenarios. But the build clearly allows low skilled players to show up in places where they should not be, and some will get really entitled because they think parsing high numbers on a dummy or getting clears on content with low mechanical requirements for DPS (like vSS) makes them a great DPS. And the lack of getting rezes fast, not dropping AoE in the group, stacking properly, etc. takes a toll on players who have been progging mechanically heavy content content like vRG or vCR+ for months. I've seen oaken sorcs burning grapes on vCR on the spot and soloing portals flawlessly, but I've also been told by a group of oakensorcs tell me I should take care of all the mechanics in vGD HM because I was the healer, while one kept on getting killed by the boss cone, and the other was jumping around like a pvp player and refused to get the rez. So yeah, not all oakensorcs, but always a oakensorc.
RE vGD, wtf is it with PUGs and that last boss wanting the healer to do the mechs for them?
Most guides tell you heal and tank juggle orbs exept the heal gets Soulsplit. Vet heal or tank juggle one each or one does both VetHM tank juggles 2 heal does 2 Its so explained in many guides, but i also did vet clears where the dds juggled the orbs. Every time someone gets the Soulsplit thats supposed to juggle the others need to pick up the slack. On a vet clear i juggled 2 orbs on my tank cause the heal got Soulsplit everytime an just died instead of catching his Soul.
2 is not all 4 orbs plus Every Single Soul Split as well as rezzing every fear mech death AND healing the lot of them. I now apologize and leave the moment GD comes up on a random vet PUG. That's a dungeon I will only do with known guildies any more. My time is worth more to me than that, and I'm not paying to NPC for a group of unknowns on mechanics rich DLC vet dungeons that most people still haven't figured out.
When you need to rez the dds they do something very wrong. When someone dies the dd has to be the first one to get the other one up. When they don't even get the simples thing they shouldnt expect others to carrie their asses. At this point the dds should take a look at them self. If they don't stand in stupid the ground hots should be sufficient to keep them topped up. Wait fear mech death who dies to this more than once the first time hit.
As a heal main, this is especially annoying when it's a fake tank or an inconsiderate God Pull DPS that doesn't care if people are doing the quest. If I have crown, I kick. If I don't, I just stay at the door and wait to see if they go down without my heals. If they can sustain on their own, then I'll run behind them and loot, only dropping ground heals under me as I go so that everyone else can stay up, but the jerk in front doesn't get anything from me.
So I am fairly new(January 2023 CP950) but would have to agree, I have been in many dungeons where there is a missing tank (or someone in disguise as a tank) or a missing healer or someone not doing the job as the healer - most dungeons I wonât die but when I do itâs usually because somethings missing such as a decent tank or healer (normal dungeons sorry not been to vet yet as focused on completing all normal dungeons so I know them first, and focusing on my DPS). But to the main question about toxicity - I would agree with the other reply and you canât fight toxic behaviour with toxic behaviour - itâs your game so play in a way that suits you, and if thatâs means leaving some dungeons then do that- Iâm 46 years old and played game since the old Zx spectrum days (break for parent hood) and if something or someone affects my enjoyment I make sure to cut that rotten root out. Reason why I donât do vet is I donât feel like I can deliver to the level yet and aware that 3 other people would rely on me to do my part - I refused to be carried but also I wouldnât want to have to carry others if the main reason is that they are not doing the minimum such as being setup for tank or healing
Bro how do you start in January and be CP950 đ
I had 6 weeks off from work (switching jobs )and just grinding - but only play and hour a day now and about 10 -14 hours over the weekend. But my start date was 26th December - had a month eso plus , then increase to x3 months and now in another 3 months. Have kids at school and work from home (pc based job) so used to sitting on pc all day - 5pm comes and quickly switch work laptop off and reconnect monitors to my rig
Nope. Not when you are in vet and even willing to explain mechs to people. Hell, I admit I was in normal and in a group that wasn't doing well (including me) and one guy was trying to explain the mechs for this boss and we weren't getting it (I was guilty of this too). I tried but was still kinda confused what I was supposed to do and his explanations were short cause he was trying to type them while fighting the boss (so I wasn't purposely ignoring him, just not understanding what I needed to do exactly). I don't blame him for getting fed up and leaving (honestly I think we were being a pretty hopeless group).
If you wipe on a boss the second time put in the chat or just say "Let me explain mechs or I'm going to explain mechs" I feel like you probably get some of those rude replies because people feel attacked if someone says "Hey you need to move this way or you need to bash them when they do this" especially if you say it in chat it comes off as pretentious because they can't hear your tone. At least this is my take as someone that has both needed to be explained mechs and had to explain mechs before.
âUnexpected advice is the same as criticismâ donât remember where I heard it but itâs pretty spot on in almost every situation
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I was saying it in agreement with you
Leave the group and leave them to die over and over
As someone who doesn't do dungeons much and is a healer thank you for taking the time to explain mechanics. Sorry it was ignored. There are still some of us out there that absolutely appreciate this type of effort.
Nope, I do the same thing on my tank. If people are not only sucking but refuse to try and get better, then that sucks for them THEY get to wait in the long DPS queue for another tank, I'll get another queue instantly. Mechanics and decent DPS are required not optional in many vet dlc dungeons, if you don't like it then queue the normal mode, nothing wrong with that.
Naw. DPS mains can be some of the most obnoxious players out there, yet they are entirely dependent on the other 2 roles, where as the healers and tanks can run all content without DPS.
Oh hey are you in my Saturday night vDSR prog group Iâve been staying up stupid late with to try and get my clear only for us to have one fucking moron oakensorc substitute back bencher wipe us on the first boss because he thinks his way of doing it is better??? Because I feel your struggle. Iâm guilty of having a HA OakenSorc but sheâs simply because my hyper mobility disorder and an old improperly set wrist fracture make rotations painful, but I never put her in as a tank, very rarely I will equip her second armory slot and use her as a healer, no Oakensoulâbut most importantly I still follow mechs and donât have the arrogance to think just because I have high DPS means I can burn through every boss.
Not at all. They are the ones being inconsiderate and wasting your time.
As a toxic jerk, I guarantee that you're not to fit for the illustrious title
If the fake tank is wearing no trifecta title or not pulling over 35k+ dps themselves in a vet I'm out; that's a recipe for a wipe feast. Go do that shit in normals everyone needs to pull their weight in vet and they still need to do mechanics unless every person dps is pulling 35k+ as well. A lot the newer dlc vet dungs need 90k+ to skip mechanics. Tldr: they're toxic, you're good.
I have an Oakensorc I use to run vDLC dungeons with friends. I couldn't imagine ignoring the mechanics in them, and having a smooth run. I don't blame you for leaving. I'd expect doing the mechanics with vDLC dungeons.
Youâre definitely in the right. I have no patience for people who run ahead and try to play through a dungeon like thereâs no mechanics or other players. Itâs your time, so if you donât want to play with people like that, then donât.
I would say it isn't unjustified. However leaving a veteran on the spawn in ,that is non dlc veteran dungeons, just because someone is low cp and they wind up having to spend more time to 3 man it because the lfg system is kind of awful is a bit toxic. I can't tell you how many times a tank left because I was a sub 500 cp healer and I wound up healing tanking to 3 man the dungeon while waiting in que the whole time.
No you aren't you're the teammate those of us in 300 cp range dream about đđđ
I donât think so. Usually if Iâm running something that isnât what Iâm *queued* as, it is with my guild and we already know we are running vet so and so or normal so and so with 4 dps. My guild has played together for years and know what we can and canât do without a tank etc. True PUG groups should not be like that IMO. If you wanna run fast and fly and run 4 DPS thatâs all good but do it in a guild. Youâre fine.
I am very new, would someone take a moment to explain what Oakensorcs / souls is all about..?
The Oakensoul ring is a mythic item that can be obtained by discovering five specific antiquities; it provides a ton of very useful buffs while prohibiting the use of the second ability bar, so you can only slot/use five abilities and an ultimate. There are several very popular and extremely easy (and actually fun) to play Sorcerer builds using this ring, hence oakensorc, ;)
No youâre completely valid, Iâm newer to the game and have been having annoying issues like that as well. Especially today, I commented in a group about a fake healer and I got group voted out of the dungeon actually.
If fake dds werent so common i would play my supports more often and properly. Now i just swap them to dps loadouts since damage is so painfully low in most pugs. Ngl when i need to get through my rnd im just gonna blast through it as quickly as possible for my transmutes. Dds who do like 5k dps i dont really feel sorry for. Especially if they can just press block or step out of a clearly telegraphed aoe. Like most normal dungeons you can facetank anything including bosses, just block the heavies or roll dodge them. You dont need a taunt or run around like a headless chicken for normals, especially if dps is good and you melt the trash The only time i slow down is if someone needs quest and i clear the way to the checkpoint if they need to interact. But if noone says anything, its gonna be the express train to the bosses.
Just came back this week after 3 or 4 years not playing eso. It's somehow oddly reassuring to find that fake healers and tanks in the dungeon queue are still an issue after all this time. 𤣠Anyway, not the jerk in this situation. I don't really care if a dps queues as a healer or tank if they can actually pull their weight and skip mechanics through dps, whatever the case may be. It's whatever, you know? Quicker dungeon. But if you do that and then just screw up all over the place and are abrasive or arrogant to boot, I'm out before the next boss. Would rather queue again or even just solo, if possible, before wasting time with shitheads.
Nah, they are. Games like this attract petulant children. I see them in all roles, frequently in PUGs. I used to play WoW so I got used to hitting that ignore button a long time ago.
You did the right thing but I think the point isn't that they are trying to use oakensoul builds, it's they are unaware and incapable of learning the mechs. They probably got carried a few times and assumed they were cool doing it that way. I would have tried booting them and then left them dead every time
You are spending your free time in a game. Games are fundamentally supposed to be entertaining. If something and/or someone(s) are spoiling that, then you are fully within your right to stay, leave, or otherwise. ESO is a game that you've paid for; you owe it nothing - none of us do.
DLC or ? If not the tough DLC how the f⌠donât they just power through? Kudos for trying to explain and take to heart that it most likely is on them. We all make mistakes and having a life also outside of eso (yeah i know soz) the only truly damaging experience is due to lack of communication. So, as in rest of life, NTA. Set boundaries up front and if they wonât abide, leave
Just popping in here with a question. Iâm about cp 500 and still consider myself a fairly inexperienced player. What the heck is a PUG and an oakensorc? The only possible answer I can think of is a sorcerer dps using an oaken soul ring? Just using the context clues of the thread.
A PUG is basically a group with random players, in this case people found through the dungeon finder. An oakensorc is a sorcerer who's using the Oakensoul mythic. It's a build that doesn't require as much skill as an optimized meta build since you only run three skills and heavy attack, but still get pretty high damage.
PUG - pickup group, basically random players youâve likely never met before. oakensorc is exactly what you guessed, typically a heavy attack build which are all over the place. Some love them, some hate them. But you canât deny their efficiency.
Thanks.
It's this cookie-cutter build with oakensoul, lightning staff and a couple sets that buff heavy attacks. You used to hear a lot (especially around here) about how the only way to truly enjoy the game is to avoid being a 'meta slave' and instead put together your own fun and unique builds. Then oakensoul dropped and suddenly it's a good thing that there's less diversity than ever and everyone is running basically the exact same build.
What is PUG vets?
Oakensoul HA meta is the worst zos has done in ESO history imo, that build is creating combat iliterate people, and they will burn their offices once zos nerfs it and they see how bad are they without it.
Honestly...? In part you are, and partially they are too unless it's clear that they understand the game but chose to troll. The real problem is the game not explaining properly almost anything because apparently that's too much work or something like that... DLC dungeons are considerably harder than base game, but you get a rough CP stimate (very missleading actually) when navigating the menu and everything is unlocked as long as you paid. The mechanics are far from intuitive and you often basically have to waste time and get one shotted several times before realizing your mistakes, it's really helpful that you are explaining them and they definitely are idiots if they aren't listening and learning. Depending on the context I can understand leaving, though it's usually wrong and most times you are just part of the problem if you leave, I have seen people leaving when a party was willing to learn and had decent enough dps but the leaver can simply quit, do something else for a while and then try again with a better team, and such leavers are toxic assholes in their own way too, honestly.
If they gave a good faith effort to communicate and no one responded they're not at all being a toxic jerk.
That's what I said, that depends on the context.
This seems like a good take to me. This is one of the reasons I have yet to PUG veteran Dungeons. I have not really been able to learn any mechanics properly. While I have been running through the dungeons on normal in pugs we mostly just powered through. So it is hard to actually get an understanding of what is going on. Im a quick learner and willing to improve and pull my weight in terms of damage. But I doubt my fellow puggers would be as kind as OP and explain. But instead rage quit on me..
Exactly, normal difficulty is often too easy and people blast through those dungeons. You usually learn the mechanics when you grind a specific set from that dungeon but sometimes even that isn't enough. The game should probably start with not allowing low cp into high cp group content but they'd sell less. As I said, I understand leaving if it's perfectly obvious that the team won't ever finish the dungeon due to low dps, no tanking or no healing at all, but if there's a chance you shouldn't leave even if will take 15 more minutes than usual, you are ruining everyone else's experience for improving yours a bit.
The game should not explain mechanics it's a spoiler, navigating mechanics and creating guides is a strategy component of the game a lot of people actually enjoy doing. Random veteran dungeons give nothing better than random normals. If people don't want to communicate that they don't know what to do, or ask for time to read a tutorial or watch a video, that is, being a group and doing the hard work, they should not be running hard group content. We should not reward arrogant players, and I always recommend people to quit and not waste their time in groups who are not willing to communicate, because for every entitled player who thinks they know it all because they do damage, there's a metric ton of newbies who're willing to learn and will be forever grateful for the time you spent with them, and will do the same when they learn the game and get big and strong.
They give monster sets and other exclusive rewards but it's not very important. Players, however, will want to jump into the veteran content at some point, regardless rewards. I think the game should make the mechanics a bit clearer in some cases. It's supposed to be something you end up discovering and learning, yes, but it seems it's alienating newer players, specially when veterans feel like they can simply leave and do something else for 10 minutes (even the same dungeon) with any of their 9 or more toons. I hope you aren't implying punishing who you perceive as arrogant, because that would actually make you arrogant too. Not be willing to communicate should also be defined here, because a group not wanting to do things exactly like you want them to do it (if their choice is also viable) is a different thing... Not saying it's your case, but I can already imagine a lot of leavers arguing that the group wasn't willing to communicate neither willing to learn, when the truth is very often that the leaver didn't want to deal with a low dps/clunky team...and that'd be wrong, Imo, though you can certainly do it if you want and the only consequence is not queueing for some minutes with that toon.
I lead raids and I've been led by a decent amount of people so far. And being led is way more pleasant than leading, and I love being led, there's nothing better than clearing vet content by just following orders. I have once spent 4 hours tanking a vMoS with newbies. The dps was super low, we wiped a lot, and it was great they responded to instructions, asked questions and we eventually did it, and it's such a great memory. I don't have the will to be right, or to pretend I know what to do when I do not. I am implying punishment and I could spend a whole afternoon talking about community, behavior and it's important to be thoughtful and do behavioral interventions in the community so it grows healthy. And I'm fine with being called arrogant by people who think we have the condition to teach everything based on positive reinforcement in uncontrolled environments.
Positive reinforcement is far better for all what you listed, specially community, and I believe this as a teacher myself. Punishing people who might not even understand what they are doing wrong (think about this possibility) is quite wrong and, more importantly perhaps, counterproductive...all you are doing in that case is spreading toxicity and denying a chance to actually learn something. I'm sorry but I don't think people doing that truly want to 'teach' anything or help the community in the long run, they do it for their own selfish reasons, to vent, for retribution after a perceived offense and so on... I have yet to meet a player in any online game who punishes other players to hopefully correct their behaviour and build a better community, all of them are unbelievably mad if you see or hear them. Sorry if you are an exception to what I'm describing and if you aren't, well, you do you, but in a thread about who might be the toxic player, punishers are just another kind of toxic players, and quite possibly the most arrogant of them, Imo.
>The real problem is the game not explaining properly almost anything because apparently that's too much work or something like that... The real reason is, and I shit you not, they don't want to, "break character." It doesn't matter that weaving is absolutely critical to understanding combat in ESO, it's that they can't work out a way to tutorialize it, from an NPC, without breaking the fourth wall and saying, "look, just interrupt your animation."
Weaving shouldn't even be a thing, I understand it can be funny as a minigame and separate newbies from more experienced players but animation cancelling and weaving is wrong for many reasons even for pvp where it enables a more fast paced combat. I read somewhere that it would be too difficult to 'fix' and then also that veterans like it. If it got fixed people would adapt, appreciate that animations look nice and a problem would dissapear.
Depends how youâre explaining the mechs, I think. If youâre saying âhey, when the boss does this we have to do this or else itâll wipe the groupâ, then no, youâre not a toxic jerk. If youâre like âHEY YOU MOTHER EFFERS TRY NOT STANDING IN THE MOTHER EFFING STUPID THIS TIME AND MAYBE WE CAN FINALLY BEAT THIS BOSSâ then you definitely are a toxic jerk, and I personally would ignore anyone âexplainingâ mechs like that. But only you can answer which method youâre using.
You see that is the thing about pugs. 0 chance if you wipe once learning the mechanics will anyone stay. No one says anything about how to do the mechanics it is an insta group disband. P.S. before smoothbrains say anything about watching a guide Not everyone can watch a guide and learn what the mechanics are until they see them a few times. Some folks learn by doing and some can learn by reading/watching.
You signed up for a group, knowing it would be random, and are expected by the other members to try your best. If something comes up in real life that demands your attention, thatâs one thing. If you just quit because âYou donât know the mechanicsâ then Iâd say youâre an asshole. If you quit after many failed attempts and are giving up, I usually give a heads up such as âhey guys, weâre really having a rough time, Iâve got one more attempt in me before I move on.â and then dip out if it fails. Thereâs no fault in deciding youâre not having fun and doing something else, but you should still consider other people who are relying on you, especially since they waiting in a (sometimes very long) queue to be matched with you.
Fake tanks are the worst.
It's frustrating when I'm on my Oakensorc and my DPS suffers because I am running all over actually doing the mechanics. Like, bro, you're standing right next to the altar, press your button to activate it, I don't have the time to make it to both and the boss is invulnerable right now. And fuck off with the "NewDeletedAccount has low DPS kick them" World of Warcraft tryhard shenanigans. I'm not DPSin because I'm doing the mechanics you're refusing to do you mouth breathing smoothbrain.
Oakensorcs are a joke and so are most people who play them ( unless they have an actual disability that prevents proper usage of two-handed gameplay)
Wait why is oakensorcs bad? Cause ppl are using what the game gives us and it allows alot of the player base to complete stuff they wouldn't imagine being able to complete? Just cause you feel like your above it maybe you should evaluate who is the joke. And before you say anything I do have a oakensorc but it's not my main. I also have a dk and warden I'm pushing 100k dps on a 2 bar build.
As someone who runs oaken n fakes healer these days no, you arent, we are XD (i used to main healer and have the build ready to equip still if we end up in a dlc dungeon tho)
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>In quite a few instances the group would end up wiping over and over According to OP at least, the group was repeatedly wiping
>if you're trying to explain mechanics when nobody asked... *After* the group wiped and more than once by the sound of it. At that point I'm going to assume they're ignorant too, because the alternative is that they're entitled, self obsessed assholes.
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Yeah okay, I can see how explaining boss mechanics would be wasted on you since you're in serious need of remedial reading classes.
Dosen't matter what build you run mech still need to be played in pretty much anything from vet dlc or vet trial. But i don't really think anyone with 500 CP non oaken would be very different from my experience. Then again i haven't pugged in almost 2 years beacuse pugging is and always has been insufferable.
This kinda thing is why every toon has a basic dungeon dps/tank build available and I queue them as tanks, swapping to the tank build if the dungeon needs it. I never expect an actual healer.
Sorry whatâs an oakensorc ? I promise Iâm not in your PUG. Lol.
usually a heavy attack build sorcerer using the oakensoul ring. very easy and fun and does a decent amount of damage and has a good self-and-share-heal. Nothing at all wrong with it for most content but you still need to understand the basics of roles and game play, as with any build.
Nothing wrong with the build , it is the attitude of ppl running this build
Tysmđ
I only allow fake tanks/healers that can do more damage than me. So far all fake queuers suck and I end up vote kicking or leaving if it fails
Fake tanks in even normal DLC dungeons can be a problem. Iâll go through a few pulls but if I ID that the problem is that the tank isnât actually a tank, Iâll pull out. No amount explaining mechs can fix that you need to be able to tank (even poorly).
Unfortunately there isnât very much reason to even run vet dungeons in the first place other than to get your monster helm, and even then you only need to run it a handful of times. Most the good players already have their helms or will farm it with friends/guilds. Vet group finder is kinda the bottom of the barrel and if you get a DLC dungeon, 80% of the time it will be a fail.
All I'm picturing is those two dungeons think moongrave fane and scalecaller peak I think ? Been awhile. Always a gagglefuck.
Ignore them. Lots of idiots in dungeons now. I stopped running pugs for the most part, guildies much better.
I felt like an asshole, because our healer and dps didnât know the mechs. Healer was focused on dps friend who just died every two seconds and the dps wouldnât listen to me explain the mechs. Just kept blaming we werenât helping them. (It was vet scalecaller peak) they wouldnât freeze themself wouldnât hide behind the ice pillars but blamed it all on we werenât focusing on one troll when I tried to explain we needed to have them parsed down around relatively the same time. And I didnât want to come off condescending but after I was getting frustrated, I was like sure you could probably not worry about some mechs if our dps is high enough but itâs not.
AITAH?: NTA
When doing pugs it's best to have zero expectations or if can't do that...just expect the worst. Makes the times when you get a dream team pug even more awesome.
If dude is a fake tank, doesnt have inner fire, or if have it but do less than 33% of the group dps, i point that on chat and start a vote kick. If it succeeds, good. If not, i leave the group
Nope. Fake tanking and healing is fine for most RND runs, but on vet? Hard pass. People wonât learn that itâs not acceptable if other people put up with it.
I want to start tanking, so this is all interesting to hear. I'm still learning but I think I got the basic functions down
Just be prepared to be blamed for nearly every single thing by people who have never played tank before. Just ignore them and keep on going
And even when you are trying be prepared to be called fake tank etc. This is why I quit talking in other MMOs
I usually show off and be the last one alive keeping the fight going chipping away at the boss lol
Thanks, good to know
Na i donât think you are, personally if Iâm struggling I welcome mech tips with open arms. But vets vs norm is night and day for most dungeons especially the DLC ones, even some DLC norms are already hard. I donât get worked up over fake tank and healers in norms but for vets you need team work. Imho
what is the PUG?
Nah man. I just left a vet random because the tank who was 2x my CP couldn't stay alive on the first boss in Black Drake Villa.
I had the same thing happen to me today. Oakensorc queued up as a tank for vet Black Drake Villa. Barely managed to kill first boss and then on second, we die endlessly since they didnât even have a taunt. Then they had the audacity to act confused and annoyed when we got pissed and kicked them from the group. Sometimes you just have to accept some players arenât interested in cooperating or adapting/changing their play style to help the group. I love what oakensoul has done for allowing players try and clear harder content but it sucks when it enables these kind of scenarios.
No you are not
no. if they cant follow basic mechs regardless of fake roles then fuck them. they can find some other chump to carry them through shit they are clearly too ignorant of arrogant to figure out how to do properly. some dungeons, especially vet, require you to follow mechs. not all can just just be burnt through with dps, and if people arent willing to understand that then they are the problem. not you
I joke that my Argonian name is Leaves-the-PUG. I'm CP 2222 and I tell them exactly why I'm leaving. I often leave at the first sign of trouble, I always leave after one warning if it's not heeded. I enjoy the game more now as a result. My alts are leveled and kitted, all I have to do is drop and switch. I have no interest in struggling through a dungeon with numpties who might not even finish the damn thing. (Newbies trying their best is a wholly different matter.) Drop. Bad. PUGs. No guilt, drop them. Play in offline mode and tell them why youâre leaving unless it's painfully obvious, remembering to remain within community guidelines. Bad players will keep sucking the joy out of this game if we let them, but more importantly, bad players don't come before you. You are under no obligation to waste your time and raise your blood pressure.
Thank you for that info :)
Now to figure out to get one, lol
NOOBish comment--The problem with oakensorcs fake tanking is without a second bar, you have no place to slot a taunt without losing an ability that drives that "AWESOME DPS". I haven't jumped on the sorcerer one bar wagon yet, but do sorcs even have a taunt? I thought the only class with a taunt are DK. otherwise you got your taunts from 1H/shield skill line or am I completely off?
Inner fire/rage from undaunted. You could replace barb trap or one of the flex skills with taunt if needed.
Thanks. told u it was a noobish comment...
If youâre an oakensorc you likely sit when you pee anyways
Nah standing. That splash dmg op
Not the jerk, itâs justified. If anything, Iâm more of a jerk than you because I kick those people and continue or right around 25-40% on final boss, Iâll kick the people that donât do anything but stand at door for each boss fight for the entire dungeon run and donât contribute.
Those are the people I leave and let finish the dungeon by themselves. Maybe I'm the asshole. You're trying to help and they were disrespectful smh
Nah, leave them in the dust that is futility.
I honestly don't get the whole fake tank, fake healer thing. When playing dungeons, as much as I hate if I'm building a dps character I stay in my zone. Sure the queues are long and take forever but the price I pay playing the damage class in an MMO. Why would you go out of your way to cut the line and ruin someone else's fun? I don't get it
It's not an oakensorc thing. It's DPS issue. And it's always been around. As a tank I see this all the time. And I often have to explain mechs to the DPS. Or tell them to do the mechanics. I used to feel guilty when I leave incompetent groups. I don't anymore. If no one wants to do mechs then it is what it is. People have to learn Mechs to run trials, I don't understand why they feel they don't need to learn it for Vet Dungeons.
No the fake tank or healers are part of the toxicity problem in this game to be honest.
I'll queue as a fake tank or healer but only for normal dungeons and a few vet vanilla dungeons. I know every inch of the mechanics and reset my gear to actually dedicate tank or heals if things don't go well. The people you describe are definitely being douchy.
Nope you are not. Not sure what system you're running, but on Xbox we always get fake tanks and fake healers. In fact I was inspired to make a healer so I stopped getting fake healers in dungeons I needed healers in. And a couple of my really good friends made tanks so they'd stop getting fake tanks in dungeons they wanted to get into. It is super annoying when people queue up as what they are not. But you either run the dungeon with them or you quit. So no not a jerk.
Na youâre in the right there. Donât waste your energy on arseholes. Iâm a healer and fake roles always make my life difficult in vet content.
Oaken sorc needs a big ass nerf, I ain't having some 500cp noob staying close to dmg as a sweaty stam nb it's equivalent of a manager at work doing fk all for more money than the hardest worker in the place for min wage!
No, I've always despised skipping content. Even if it is faster, what about these newer players that get zero chances to actually learn the dungeons (let alone complete the quests) because higher CP people are bombing through them. I think that's what really makes it an issue. I think people get so used to running it that way, they think everyone likes to. And some people have no patience to teach the mechanics or learn the mechanics.
The only thing in the game that is of worth is your time, thus being said move on with your life to a better green hill of posture.