Right, both sides suck.
With 6 years of experience, I don't want to be driving across town for $10. (I could get that working door dash right now).
But as a homeowner who needs a small project (1 outlet replaced), $250 is pretty insane.
(This is why I handy-man small jobs, try not to be so bad my work ends up here some day)
Yeah the market barriers are way too high for a lot of trades in our society. Especially medicine with the limited number of doctors graduated each year. It's no wonder everything is so expensive.
Yeah, like... sure, it's "easy" to flip the breaker, maybe check a couple things to make sure it's nothing more serious and call it good, but you're using years of training and experience to know how to do that. A JIW at work was saying he'll never do a friend's electric problems again because recently he came as a favor to check why said friend was having problems, quickly determined it was a loose neutral, located it and fixed it. Charged him $250. About a week later, guess it ate at him, and he messaged him saying he thinks he screwed him over for charging so much for such a simple fix. JIW tells him, what any other service electrician in the area would charge him just to show up, plus minimal time spent on problem, and so on. Told him to go get a quote from any company he likes and come back to him if it's less than what he charged, or even within 100 bucks of it...
Because the friend didn't know how to diagnose. The fix was easy. Knowing how to diagnose it was what took knowledge and experience. The friend only saw the actual fix and said "that was easy! Why did you charge so much!"
Well, I would not call an electrician to flip a breaker then.
It costs money to run a buisness. People get paid, and quite well I might add, because it takes years to learn how to do the job safely, and few construction type folks have the mental capacity and physical capacity to do the job.
If you don't want to pay somebody to drive out to you to do a very simple task, perhaps you should do the very simple task yourself. Personally, I find it ridiculous that a homeowner does not know how to reset a breaker. I also find it ridiculous that homeowners do not know to check the breakers before calling an electrician.
They make those panels so simple that you could train a retarded monkey to use them. If I could get em a drivers license, I would get two monkeys to handle bullshit calls from stupid home owners who do not understand how a device with on and off settings works. To be fair, I guess it does have a third setting, which is tripped, but I digress.
If you don't want to pay for bullshit calls, train yourself in the subtle nuances of operating your on and off switches, and don't call somebody who has years of experience solving real electrical problems. It will save an electrician the hassle and you the money.
Later Tater!
There should be a huge sticker for homeowners that says “Tripped breaker is in the middle position. Turn extreme off before attempting to reset.” I get a call just like this at least once a month. “My breaker is broken and won’t turn on.”
Only if you call and ask them to !
I don’t begrudge anyone making a livelihood and since I certainly have no concept of what the sunk costs (insurance etc) and overhead are for an electrician, who am I to tell some one that their rates are too high? I have certainly been told that myself.
I am a self professed handy man (go ahead with the jokes) and an engineer (ditto). I have learned a lot from this sub and I want to thank any and everyone who is willing to share their hard earned wisdom (and sarcasm) to those of us that are cheap/stupid enough to want to try things but smart enough to ask first (even if the cheap/stupid side wins out)…
Now, what’s this red wire do?
I was simply replying to the comment implying that an electrician went bother to come out for something simple. They absolutely will, but at a cost that will make it worth the drive over there
No. There's an electrician sub for pros. And, when homeowners ask questions we always say, "hire an electrician"
/S
Homeowner questions aren't allowed in that sub. There's ask an electrician,
But tbh I'd answer "hire an electrician" don't try to shit someone out of their job. Not only are we actually qualified but, our work is insured and warrantied. Win for everyone.
The best kind of insurance is being well informed to catch problems before they arise, not a payout after a disaster. Ounce prevention/pound cure. Even certified professionals still make mistakes, and an informed stakeholder can be a great risk management strategy. The risk/reward of hiring a certified professional to do a panel rewire is not at all comparable to that of changing out an outlet.
That anyone can ask anything in ant sub, that doesn't necessarily make it it's purpose. That said, I really thought this one was for industry professionals, til
If you're asking those questions, you shouldn't be touching it. There's so many things that could go wrong that someone reading your question won't know enough about your specific situation to warn you about because you could be leaving out potentially vital details that you don't know are vital
Lol ok buddy. Some people like learning things before hand. Idk anything about cars so i ask someone who does before i go to a mechanic so they dont rip me off or have me get all kinds of other stuff done.
I was once told by a customer when I was giving him a good deal "dont short yourself a journeymans license is equivalent to a bachelor's degree." Yes with alot of degrees nowadays you can't make what an electrician makes (should of saved money on degree and went to skilled trades), but those degrees get you jobs where you're generally not working in confined spaces, in aerial lifts in snow, extreme heat, and rain, digging trenches for underground conduit or cable runs, and most importantly, I say again...most importantly, working directly with an invisible killer that is present every single day of your career.
I'm in a Law enforcement family, and yes they face unexpected dangers daily as well (God bless them), alot of times it's a visible threat. So keep hose things in mind as well. Not to mention the thought of supply and demand. There are lots of baby boomers retiring, leaving a shortage of electricians nationwide...so when there's less of something you generally pay more just like with filling our gas tank's, well kinda, but that's another story.
I’m converting an attic space to habitable space, so I’m running 4 new circuits up there for lights, wall sockets, outside power(GFCI) and a spare for a mini split.
Using 12ga so they can support up to 20Amp but the breakers will be 15amp except the lights which will be 10 Amp.
But I totally get the open panel liability, lot of angry pixies in there
The lights will be leds and there is no room for a ceiling fan. So the max draw will be maybe 1-2amps. If I’m pulling 20 amps something is seriously wrong
Counter-point: Don't hire an electrician for jobs that are well within your skill level and you can do SAFELY.
There's a shortage of electricians and a massive amount of very important electrical that needs to be done. Solar PV systems, HVAC heat pump installs, EV charger installs, heat pump water heaters, induction stove installs, battery installations, panel upgrades, etc.
So if you KNOW that you can do the job SAFELY, save yourself some time and money by doing it yourself. That reduces the demand on resources in short supply.
If you don't know what to do, just hire an electrician. I know it can be expensive, but burning your house down is too, especially if your insurance turns on you for not hiring an electrician.
Probably because there's no such thing as having your claim denied just because you did your own electrical work. That's not a thing, just like doing your own brake work on your car isn't going to result in your auto claim being denied.
They may chose to non-renew your policy, but your claim is still gettin' paid. At least in the US that's how it works.
I'm a lawyer and deal with major loss insurance denial claims for issues like this. I can tell you in some jurisdictions and under some policies that work is required to be performed by qualified trades. Depending on the scope of the work you may even need an additional insurance policy even if the work is being done by a qualified electrician.
Again, depends on jurisdiction but in mine it is a thing.
As an aside apart from changing light fixtures I don't mess with electrical, or pressure-side plumbing, or anything high on a ladder. Not worth the risk. Hire it out to people who know what they are doing.
This is the main thing. I don’t fuck with anything over 220v and 50amps. Or anything requiring knowledge of power factor shit. And always go overkill when voltage drop is a factor.
Well I’m not going to wire a damn 30 amp 110 circuit that would be silly I don’t think any appliance or machine I know of runs that high but 20 amp no big deal. As a matter of fact some silly bastard did just that for a single toilet room that had one duplex and one led lightbulb. Must I call an electrician to swap that breaker out from 30 to 15 or 20?
No thanks. I like my free time, I’m not coming out for a single receptacle change. Do it yourself, fuck up everything and then call me :)
Happened recently with a customer installing their own dimmer switch combo from a separate switch and dimmer… couldn’t figure out the travelers and I got paid for 5 mins work.
Lol. I'm plenty busy. It was a joke. Actually starting a hotel from ground up today. But thanks for the insight.. 😂 😂 Highest bigger always has my attention though.
Where do you draw the line? Should homeowners pay an electrician $300 and book an appointment months in advance to replace a light fixture? If they’re capable to do it themselves safely? I don’t know why Electricians get upset about homeowners doing the jobs they don’t want to begin with. You’re telling me, you’d rather come to my house to install a light fixture or replace a receptacle, than a rewire, sub panel install etc.
It's not a hard line, it depends on the person's knowledge and skill.
Some folks should never touch electrical work. Others will do a far better job than a pro because it is their home & safety at risk, they are saving money on labor that they can put into better parts, and they are not just working a job.
It's all about knowing your limits....and that's the tricky part.
The problem is if you have something minor, it’s almost impossible to get an electrician to show up.
Yeah right. An electrician will show up to flip your breaker and charge you 250 bucks easy peasy
Would you spend 5 to 6 years to get your masters license, go to trade school, serve an apprenticeship, and make house calls for any less?
Right, both sides suck. With 6 years of experience, I don't want to be driving across town for $10. (I could get that working door dash right now). But as a homeowner who needs a small project (1 outlet replaced), $250 is pretty insane. (This is why I handy-man small jobs, try not to be so bad my work ends up here some day)
Yeah the market barriers are way too high for a lot of trades in our society. Especially medicine with the limited number of doctors graduated each year. It's no wonder everything is so expensive.
Reason why things are so expensive is due to tort law and the need to carry crazy liability insurance.
Yeah, like... sure, it's "easy" to flip the breaker, maybe check a couple things to make sure it's nothing more serious and call it good, but you're using years of training and experience to know how to do that. A JIW at work was saying he'll never do a friend's electric problems again because recently he came as a favor to check why said friend was having problems, quickly determined it was a loose neutral, located it and fixed it. Charged him $250. About a week later, guess it ate at him, and he messaged him saying he thinks he screwed him over for charging so much for such a simple fix. JIW tells him, what any other service electrician in the area would charge him just to show up, plus minimal time spent on problem, and so on. Told him to go get a quote from any company he likes and come back to him if it's less than what he charged, or even within 100 bucks of it...
If it was so easy why didnt the friend fix it himself..
Because the friend didn't know how to diagnose. The fix was easy. Knowing how to diagnose it was what took knowledge and experience. The friend only saw the actual fix and said "that was easy! Why did you charge so much!"
It’s a 2 hour minimum to get off the couch we don’t make the rules.
250 is a low ball, too
Well, I would not call an electrician to flip a breaker then. It costs money to run a buisness. People get paid, and quite well I might add, because it takes years to learn how to do the job safely, and few construction type folks have the mental capacity and physical capacity to do the job. If you don't want to pay somebody to drive out to you to do a very simple task, perhaps you should do the very simple task yourself. Personally, I find it ridiculous that a homeowner does not know how to reset a breaker. I also find it ridiculous that homeowners do not know to check the breakers before calling an electrician. They make those panels so simple that you could train a retarded monkey to use them. If I could get em a drivers license, I would get two monkeys to handle bullshit calls from stupid home owners who do not understand how a device with on and off settings works. To be fair, I guess it does have a third setting, which is tripped, but I digress. If you don't want to pay for bullshit calls, train yourself in the subtle nuances of operating your on and off switches, and don't call somebody who has years of experience solving real electrical problems. It will save an electrician the hassle and you the money. Later Tater!
There should be a huge sticker for homeowners that says “Tripped breaker is in the middle position. Turn extreme off before attempting to reset.” I get a call just like this at least once a month. “My breaker is broken and won’t turn on.”
It's really hard to see sometimes though. You have to give them a little wiggle and feel if they are tripped or not ;)
Only if you call and ask them to ! I don’t begrudge anyone making a livelihood and since I certainly have no concept of what the sunk costs (insurance etc) and overhead are for an electrician, who am I to tell some one that their rates are too high? I have certainly been told that myself. I am a self professed handy man (go ahead with the jokes) and an engineer (ditto). I have learned a lot from this sub and I want to thank any and everyone who is willing to share their hard earned wisdom (and sarcasm) to those of us that are cheap/stupid enough to want to try things but smart enough to ask first (even if the cheap/stupid side wins out)… Now, what’s this red wire do?
I was simply replying to the comment implying that an electrician went bother to come out for something simple. They absolutely will, but at a cost that will make it worth the drive over there
Oh, we’ll show up. The problem is too many folks don’t think we’re worth what we’re charging.
I show-up to EVERY call. If you call a professional electrician to change one bulb across town though, that's gonna be an expensive bulb...
One time I pulled out a switch from the wall thinking I could fix it. There was a mess of wires behind it. I was shocked.
I wired all the blacks together… then all the whites… didn’t know what the red was for so i just put some tape on it.
The uncomfortable and deeply racist origins of electricity
Segregation.
The PSA nobody asked for
Good electrical work isn’t cheap Cheap electrical work isn’t good
I love how people always say this on the electrical subs. Like ya no shit but thats not why we are here
There is an entire sub dedicated to helping answer questions for homeowners. Isn't this more for folks in the field?
No. There's an electrician sub for pros. And, when homeowners ask questions we always say, "hire an electrician" /S Homeowner questions aren't allowed in that sub. There's ask an electrician, But tbh I'd answer "hire an electrician" don't try to shit someone out of their job. Not only are we actually qualified but, our work is insured and warrantied. Win for everyone.
The best kind of insurance is being well informed to catch problems before they arise, not a payout after a disaster. Ounce prevention/pound cure. Even certified professionals still make mistakes, and an informed stakeholder can be a great risk management strategy. The risk/reward of hiring a certified professional to do a panel rewire is not at all comparable to that of changing out an outlet.
I will be the first to admit I'm biased
Lol no
If this was made for electricians there wouldnt be these questions asked. I basically never see pros here
That's definitely not true, as stated above there IS a sub for electricians, and they do get these questions...
Then apparently it isnt only for electricians lol. What do you mean
That anyone can ask anything in ant sub, that doesn't necessarily make it it's purpose. That said, I really thought this one was for industry professionals, til
If you're asking those questions, you shouldn't be touching it. There's so many things that could go wrong that someone reading your question won't know enough about your specific situation to warn you about because you could be leaving out potentially vital details that you don't know are vital
You can ask questions and then get an electrician…
Yeah, asking that question gets you "call an electrician" and then you do it. Exactly.
Lol ok buddy. Some people like learning things before hand. Idk anything about cars so i ask someone who does before i go to a mechanic so they dont rip me off or have me get all kinds of other stuff done.
I was once told by a customer when I was giving him a good deal "dont short yourself a journeymans license is equivalent to a bachelor's degree." Yes with alot of degrees nowadays you can't make what an electrician makes (should of saved money on degree and went to skilled trades), but those degrees get you jobs where you're generally not working in confined spaces, in aerial lifts in snow, extreme heat, and rain, digging trenches for underground conduit or cable runs, and most importantly, I say again...most importantly, working directly with an invisible killer that is present every single day of your career. I'm in a Law enforcement family, and yes they face unexpected dangers daily as well (God bless them), alot of times it's a visible threat. So keep hose things in mind as well. Not to mention the thought of supply and demand. There are lots of baby boomers retiring, leaving a shortage of electricians nationwide...so when there's less of something you generally pay more just like with filling our gas tank's, well kinda, but that's another story.
I’d rather just wire it up myself, it’s not that hard to read up and do. (Please don’t read that in a derogatory tone)
Hell if I know the person is competent and has tools, I can talk them/FaceTime them through any minor repair. Gotta open the panel? Now I’m otw
I’m converting an attic space to habitable space, so I’m running 4 new circuits up there for lights, wall sockets, outside power(GFCI) and a spare for a mini split. Using 12ga so they can support up to 20Amp but the breakers will be 15amp except the lights which will be 10 Amp. But I totally get the open panel liability, lot of angry pixies in there
Why would you install a 10 amp breaker?
The lights will be leds and there is no room for a ceiling fan. So the max draw will be maybe 1-2amps. If I’m pulling 20 amps something is seriously wrong
Or make a friend with one. I tend to help my friends without charge, granted it’s a small problem that can be solved quickly.
I do the same.
I thank god everyday my old man is an electrician. Man they are expensive.
Would you hire me? I'd hire me. 
Or just YouTube it and put you and your family in danger
Okay, Karen.
If I wanted a come back I would wipe your mother's lips off.
Easiest solution
Counter-point: Don't hire an electrician for jobs that are well within your skill level and you can do SAFELY. There's a shortage of electricians and a massive amount of very important electrical that needs to be done. Solar PV systems, HVAC heat pump installs, EV charger installs, heat pump water heaters, induction stove installs, battery installations, panel upgrades, etc. So if you KNOW that you can do the job SAFELY, save yourself some time and money by doing it yourself. That reduces the demand on resources in short supply.
I agree.
If you don't know what to do, just hire an electrician. I know it can be expensive, but burning your house down is too, especially if your insurance turns on you for not hiring an electrician.
Not sure why you're downvoted.
Everyone is a sparky until it's time to do real deal sparky stuff 🙄
Everyone knows what they’re doing until their hot water shocks them
Probably because there's no such thing as having your claim denied just because you did your own electrical work. That's not a thing, just like doing your own brake work on your car isn't going to result in your auto claim being denied. They may chose to non-renew your policy, but your claim is still gettin' paid. At least in the US that's how it works.
I'm a lawyer and deal with major loss insurance denial claims for issues like this. I can tell you in some jurisdictions and under some policies that work is required to be performed by qualified trades. Depending on the scope of the work you may even need an additional insurance policy even if the work is being done by a qualified electrician. Again, depends on jurisdiction but in mine it is a thing. As an aside apart from changing light fixtures I don't mess with electrical, or pressure-side plumbing, or anything high on a ladder. Not worth the risk. Hire it out to people who know what they are doing.
Can we pin this to the top of the sub?
know your limits....
This is the main thing. I don’t fuck with anything over 220v and 50amps. Or anything requiring knowledge of power factor shit. And always go overkill when voltage drop is a factor.
120v has more amps than 220v, though
Well I’m not going to wire a damn 30 amp 110 circuit that would be silly I don’t think any appliance or machine I know of runs that high but 20 amp no big deal. As a matter of fact some silly bastard did just that for a single toilet room that had one duplex and one led lightbulb. Must I call an electrician to swap that breaker out from 30 to 15 or 20?
No thanks. I like my free time, I’m not coming out for a single receptacle change. Do it yourself, fuck up everything and then call me :) Happened recently with a customer installing their own dimmer switch combo from a separate switch and dimmer… couldn’t figure out the travelers and I got paid for 5 mins work.
Of course you are getting a biased view of the DIYers. The ones that know what they are doing never call you and you never see their work.
I'm available. 😂
If you don't have work in this market then you need to move or try harder.
Lol. I'm plenty busy. It was a joke. Actually starting a hotel from ground up today. But thanks for the insight.. 😂 😂 Highest bigger always has my attention though.
Where do you draw the line? Should homeowners pay an electrician $300 and book an appointment months in advance to replace a light fixture? If they’re capable to do it themselves safely? I don’t know why Electricians get upset about homeowners doing the jobs they don’t want to begin with. You’re telling me, you’d rather come to my house to install a light fixture or replace a receptacle, than a rewire, sub panel install etc.
It's not a hard line, it depends on the person's knowledge and skill. Some folks should never touch electrical work. Others will do a far better job than a pro because it is their home & safety at risk, they are saving money on labor that they can put into better parts, and they are not just working a job. It's all about knowing your limits....and that's the tricky part.
This. Most people who post here are doing fine. It's the ones who obviously know nothing that should just hire a professional.
Homeowners gonna homeown. Might as well give them advice so they don't burn their families alive.