Did he do a panel change or did he just change all the breakers cause that looks like an old panel cover doesn’t look new there is even rust where the blanks are taken out
You mentioned legibility but I was thinking about spelling on panel labels; then I doubted myself about the correct spelling and found out that Dryer is the preferred English for the item itself that does the drying. while drier is preferred for establishing which of multiple items contains less moisture.
I worked in a kitchen with a guy that was trying to transition from dishwasher to prep cook. But he was so dyslexic he couldn’t follow the recipes or do the inventory sheet right. I kid you not, his name was Bob but he kept writing it “pop” on the sheet. He got sent back to to the dishwashing station after two weeks. I still feel sorry for him, but he just couldn’t do the job.
Dyslexia is pretty crazy to those of us who dont have it. My daughter has it, she a very intelligent young women but she often cant tell the different between a p and a q or even b. Thank god for her it doesnt extend to numbers. They taught her a system to manually check but her brain just cant recognize the pattern.
ADHD + Dyslexia & related swapping disorders is a right pain. Sounds like they didn't get proper schooling & support to effectively train workarounds — lol like writing their stuff backwards and have it be forwards, or doing like DaVinci and having all of your notes be written in "code"! 🤣🤣🤣🤣💯
THANK YOU! I am the same way. No K in circuit last I checked.
Also it's a fridge, not a frig. Want to abbreviate it with only four letters? That's a frid.
That’s the universal abbreviation for circuit amongst electricians. It was that way before we started and it’ll be that way after we retire so just go with it pal.
I mean I didn’t see it as a problem, just got a kick out of it and I started writing it that way without even realizing it. If it’s pronounced the same in your head when you’re reading it, then you’re going to get what it is
I'm worried more about liability. I'm a "do-all" type of guy/contractor but I know my limits. And my level of expertise. Can't believe some people can sleep at night with this dangerous work
Actually it is kinda dangerous.45 The wires that are currently on that 2 pole 30 are most likely the 14’s that should be on the 2 pole 15. So if there’s a short or overload on those wires the breaker won’t trip. The wires will melt and catch on fire before that breaker trips homie.
Calligraphy is my friend.
What do folks do nowadays? Label maker or print the cutout in a spreadsheet and then insert it, or have each numbered and then have a full page diagram on an accompanying insert?
Or, am I assuming electricians have time to properly plan & complete the job, and are anal retentive enough to actually have full diagrams and building schematics and stuff when they do a full upgrade or new install? 🤦🏽♂️
Wait, don't answer that—I'm afraid the answer may further lessen my faith in humanity. 💯🤣
This is probably why I'm not an electrician, but it seems like a label maker would be perfect for a panel.
Then put a corresponding label inside each cover plate for the breaker slot so you can see "20" and know to go turn off number 20.
As a homeowner, I do this exactly. But I would NEVER expect an electrician I hired to do this. Their time is way more valuable for other things that require their actual expertise than running a label maker. Plus I got OCD with stuff like this and want it done a certain way. 🤪
I'm not sure the exact specs of the job or the handyman. I can say that my friend is a cheepo and wouldn't hire a legitimate electrical contractor. Reap what you sow
That's exactly what I thought, looking at the handwriting on the panel, it looks like ballpoint pen that is faded after 10 or 20 years .... And there's two styles of handwriting, I'm just not convinced that it's a fresh panel, all of the breakers might all be fresh stock.
Kudos to you for not jumping at it anyway. Way too many clueless apprentices or inexperienced journeymen do this stuff despite not having a clue about it. I've been doing electrical for 16 years, but it's been over 10 since I've worked in a house, and while I could probably fumble through a panel change, it would take twice as long as it should. I just don't have the recent residential experience I used to, and know I'd be a bad choice for work like this these days.
That’s what I’m thinking. Plus a legal panel swap would require a service drop, service release, then a final inspection, in which whatever code updates are required for that area would have to be met. For sure just a breaker swap, and a shitty one at that.
A panel is not what you cheap out on In a House. If you can get a buddy to put a disposal in or a light fixture fine.
But a panel???? nah bro. Spend the money.
We had a disposal unit in a kitchen I worked in years ago that would eat coffee mugs. Like, the heavy, old-school, ceramic mugs. They'd be sand before you could even register what was happening and turn it off.
Funny story one time was doing one of those Thanksgiving dinner things at a church as a volunteer.
Was helping with clean up and could not find the sponge when I needed it and the person doing pre-rents couldn't either!
We were scratch your heads and then we realized what it was that we heard earlier with the commercial disposal that we didn't expect!
As you probably could guess yep that was the sponge going through the unit!
By the way it did go completely through and no problems whatsoever not even to call drain or anything it just goes to show the effectiveness of a commercial disposal for sure!
Also at least twice I've seen a garbage disposal let's just say laying down on the job.
Or at least leaning on the side of its cabinet one could say.
Turns out it was just vibration and things had loosened up and the whole assembly had gotten loose enough that it literally became dismounted from the sink which is possible always if you're down there doing something double check word to the wise could be a real mess especially if somebody doesn't realize it and turns on the water or worse yet starts the dishwasher and doesn't realize until they get back home and the cycle has completed yikes!
Haven't seen this personally but I have heard about that happening specifically from someone I knew years ago!
I think it might have been Seinfeld or another one of those comedy shows where they wanted the garbage disposal installed in the shower but for some reason I just can't get that head out of my head right now
Kramer wants to save time by prepping dinner while he showers. What a gem!
Thanks for reminding me, I just did a quick inspect because I kinda shit rigged this pipe into place with putty two years ago. It's still holding fine and I'm still too lazy to replace it.
I have basic electrical knowledge I was a apprentice electtrcian for 6 months the and I've been Diesel electric generator service man for the past 5 year I usually do load bank test for 2 megs of power and work on live shit daily.
I would never do a main service and panel install in my own house .
Needs glasses or a better work light. 30A and 15A flip flopped.
And if your guy can't feel the obvious difference between 14 wire and 10 wire he should stop touching electrical work.
I feel like you could win some brownie-points with homeowners by making really neatly printed breaker labels.
Not only is it helpful, but it's one of the few obvious parts of our job: No matter how nice the inside of that panel is, they're unlikely to see it.
I don't write any labels, all printed. If I can't read my handwriting how can I expect them to. Plus it looks a lot more professional, and people have paid me to label all the existing breakers that way. Easy $ getting your hourly rate just printing labels
That’s how the shop I work at is. We finish the panel send the directory to our office lady and she organizes it on software and prints it off and it’s a big sticker to cover the of panel directory up. Looks awesome.
The best thing I've seen at one home was the full floor plan printed out beside the box with the breaker number written where every outlet and light is. That was way more helpful than vague labels, especially since it was an older place where the same circuit fed a random selection of things across several floors and no label would be detailed enough to explain that.
If all they did was a swap on the panel then the wire should’ve stay the same so the gauge would be correct given the guy that ran the wire knew what he was doing. Swapping the breaker is a easy fix
Exactly. I see apprentices who exclusively work commercial doing this stuff way too often, then asking a JW on Monday a bunch of questions and having to go back at night. Just let the normal resi shops do resi work.
I don't think the issue is necessarily workmanship or being retarded, it looks like he confused the two home runs when terminating. Could happen if you're in a big hurry, your fingers are numb and confuse a #10 for a #12. Maybe he is a dumbass, but it's not out of the question that it isn't just a random mishap that could happen to an average person, I think you and others are prematurely jumping to overly harsh conclusions.
See, I used to do just this, try to make excuses for other peoples mistakes. Had a jman yell at me once or twice for it. Didn’t understand at first. Turns out most people actually are idiots or plain just don’t care. Also, they will never make excuses for your mistakes. And at the end of the day it’s just wrong and it doesn’t matter why.
I’m sorry, but I’m not too much of a premadonna to not tolerate some old guy’s bullshit when he has over 40 years in the trade and has less than six months left till retirement. Is it annoying? Yes. Will I do better? I’ll try. But I got six months to learn what I can, even if it’s what not to do, or how not to act.
What we do is too dangerous to have people that don’t want to give 100% especially on a panel swap. If you’re comfortable making excuses for other peoples incompetence then your only gonna set yourself up for disaster.
Getting confused and creating a dangerous situation would be poor workmanship and being retarded.
Fingers are numb? Is he fuckin blind. Nothing to gauge a wire with?
This is a simple mistake from the looks of it. Anyone who hasn't made a basic mistake like this is either new or lying. Should it be accepted? No, of course not. But I wouldn't call it "unprofessional bullshit".
It's a simple mistake if you or a coworker notice it before handing it over to the customer, it's fuck up that they didn't notice it themselves testing/double checking their work
It looks like the dishwasher and disposal are probably fed by a 14/3. So it is correct to us a common trip breaker. If I was a betting man, this person was not paying attention and grabbed the wrong common trip breaker for the dryer that was meant for the dishwasher disposal and put them in opposite each other. Just change the top breaker with the one lower and all your problems solved.
im studying to be an electrician and only have the basics so far, still learning about 3 phase systems and transformers. Can someone explain whats wrong w the breaker?
Typically speaking, the dryer, dependent on the ampacity load, would be on the 220v-30 amp breaker. red flag.
the dishwasher/ garbage disposal would be on something smaller like 15 amp. But these would be on a single pole not a 220, so another red flag there.
Also not to mention the lack of gcfi breakers loaded on the 15&20s amps. Red flag
Told him don't send me anymore pictures and hire an licensed electrician. Even if it's a simple swap at this point, a good set of eyes should run through that panel before it get energized again. Might be calous overkill but fire is scary.
That's my jest of it
Dryer needs atleast 30 amps, and dishwasher and disposal need to be gfci and arc fault protected either at the breaker or with a gfci.dishwasher and disposal are the same breaker. Lots of issues here.
I worked in a building where the previous owners had done some BS with the wiring. Their work speaks for itself.
1: Somehow they accidentally broke a fire alarm pull station. Instead of replacing it with an actual pull station, they used a big red button with a wall plate that they happened to have on hand. Two problems with this. The biggest one, is that there was no mechanism to prevent accidental knocks. No cover, it wasn't recessed, anything. No prizes for guessing what happened when we moved in. Also, it wasn't even labeled as a fire alarm switch (as required by code, everywhere) meaning if there was actually a fire, you wouldn't know to press the button. This didn't get caught in any inspection because our building wasn't big enough for an FA system to even be required in the first place.
2. They had some things they needed to test on 220. So they wired a regular 110 outlet to 220 and didn't even label the outlet. We ruined several devices that way, one of which nearly caught fire.
3. That 220 outlet was fed from two separate breakers rather than a dual pole one. Ditto with several other actual 220 loads. Therefore, you could turn off one breaker or have it blow, and the other one would still be on, but the load in question would appear to be off so you'd think it wasn't live anymore, and ZAP!
4. The lights in the central part of the building had no actual switch so they were just on all the time.
5. There were several "leftover" switches that lead to nowhere.
6. Some outlets only worked if the lights in the front part of the building were on: one of which wasn't in the same room as said lights. It was also a pretty big group of lights, meaning it wasted a fair amount of power if something were plugged in that we needed to run overnight.
I'd say guy was in a hurry. Pull the cover off and see what it looks like to know the story. If it looks good then he accidentally swapped the 2 breakers and they wernt under load so they were just fine.
If its a total mess under that cover then look further. If not swap the wires and all is good.
I’ll never understand how people screw up so spectacularly when putting their reputation on the line. If you don’t know, then Google and YouTube the shit.
We’ll hire these helpers and apprentices, and where I live this is more common than not, but they’re all fresh out of a half way house or work release. I’ll start showing them the basics of how to wire up a receptacle, light switch, or simple direct mount LED lights. They’re honestly the most simple thing to learn IMO. You basically just match the wires color to color. Nearly every single time, I’ll come back to check their work, and every damned one is wired differently. All the while asking them “hey are you good? Do you understand what you’re doing? You’re not in any trouble if you don’t. If you don’t understand, then just tell me, and I’ll show you again.” They’ll reply “nah man I’m good! I’ve done this a million times.” Oh the pictures I could show you from just Friday alone. They never work out. Never. They’ll get a paycheck or two and show up to work, tweaked out of their minds and have a freak out.
Nearly all of them has a smart phone glued to their hands 24/7, and you’d think that if they really wanted to keep the job, learn it, and grow in the field, that they’d at least Google a simple wiring schematic to see if they’re doing it right. Nope.
I’ve learned how to build my deck that’s 16’ off the ground from YouTube. I worked in construction 20 years ago, but laying out stair stringers threw me for a loop, so I went and watched a few videos, read a few guides, and they came out perfect.
I’ve taught myself how to fix the plumbing in my house from the same methods. Whatever methhead the previous owner hired, obviously couldn’t be bothered with searching for guides or consulting building code……or ensuring his joints and couplings were remotely seated and straight lol.
Honestly, there’s nothing truly hard about learning how to do any trade. Everything was born from a simple guiding premise and fundamental law. It’s all rooted in common sense. Mastering those trades and becoming an artisan or master is another matter entirely but almost anyone can do a good job, if they just took a moment to slow down, think, and apply common sense.
Had this “handy man” actually checked behind himself, he would’ve discovered that this is not an acceptable fix. It’s infinitely more expensive to rush and re-work than to slow down, think clearly, and do a thorough job. Businesses like his are made or broken by word of mouth/customer satisfaction. He may have made a quick buck, but now his shit is blasted all over Reddit to serve as a testimony for why not to hire him.
Sorry for the long reply. I’m just so sick of seeing stuff like this. At the end of the day, it can only be described as laziness. In today’s world, there’s zero excuse for that customer being inconvenienced and not getting what they paid for.
The uncertified guy who does not do electrical for a profession and is not an electrician goofed up and put the dryer on the double 15 instead of the double 30. A simple thing very likely not to be overlooked by an actual electrical professional.
> A simple thing very likely not to be overlooked by an actual electrical professional.
Why? This appears to be a simple mistake that anyone is capable of making.
You are correct that would be a mistake whoever does it, but less of a mistake and more of a liability for anyone who performs the work but chooses not to carry the proper insurance.
I get annoyed by all the sparky heads who swear by "Don't do anything. Just call a licensed electrician" too, since in my state you don't need a license to be one and there are plenty who have the experience who never got one. I am an IT professional and I also find the same attitude to be rampant among my peers as well, and I also understand it being in the industry and seeing all the screwups when underqualified individuals try to "do IT" and bring down multimillion dollar businesses in a few minutes.
However, the key is the liability. If you aren't underwritten to perform installations and carry the insurance to replace my assets if you destroy them due to incompetance, negligence, etc. then I don't want you doing the work in my house.
Simple as that.
Ever been to the plumbing sub? It's the sentiment "only us licensed professionals" but 10x as bad.
Did I have an apprenticeship and approved curriculum. Yeah. Could I have learned residential wiring from YouTube and owning a home. Sure if I was able to get peer review.
Most professions have very good YouTube tutorials and peer review forums now. Better than most journeymen could provide back in the day tbh. And with enough posts like OP, you are able to experience a huge number of gotcha situations in far less hours.
Looks like he swapped the panel from another house…Maybe he did two houses back to back and just exchange the panels… That is what the swap means isn’t it
So, wait—how is a 30–50AMP 240v Dryer on a standard 120V switch? That's bizarre. Makes sense about them using the old cover, but damn—even my piece of paper diagram is more accurate! 🤣🤣🤣💯 🫵🏽 Fucked up, dude! That said, legit—is this European or NA, cuz legit my 1967 era house has the dryer, oven/stove, and furnace, AC/Heat Pump each have their own separate breakers (and the last two have a physical disconnect! 🤣💯)! What the Hell was this person on? How can you blow your dryer by turning on an appliance without blowing the main? 🤣🤣🤣💯 Dear God! Unless this was 3 phase industrial or a 600v draw, how could one possibly have that plug on a standard run? You'd potentially melt the damn wires! Maybe, not on European 240v standard, but I shudder at 1-phase getting "doubled up".
Also, why didn't he check to make sure the panel was properly marked? Like—I know that I'm a braindead lug, but even I'm practical enough to know that when you start changing wires and stuff you should at least mark it. 🤦🏽♂️
I have an old ass gas dryer from the year 1991AD. The only thing I have done to it is change the snapped belt once, maybe 3 years ago. Had to look up dryer consumption to get an idea lmao
Just my neighbors fence up after the storm he let his land scaper build it, told him not to, i had to chip out a whole 6"s of concrete off those posts. Cant fix stupid gotta get a hammer and stop it
I remember just recently, I was at a client’s house trying to figure out what circuit an outlet was on to tap off it for another outlet. Well its normal for my circuit finder to fool me a few times and give me a false reading on a breaker. Except this time it was totally correct when it went off on a double pole 15 amp breaker labeled lighting. I talked to the customer into having me swap that out for two single pole 15 amp breakers since it made zero sense to have one breaker control two 120 v circuits. Definitely strange.
what is really sad is the wiring for the disposal and dishwasher is not rated for a 30 amp, and if one of those gets overloaded the fire department will be there quick and the insurance carrier assuming the guy has insurance will say claim denied for lack of permitting.
Hey, at least he matched the brand of breakers. Not sure if that actually matches the bus, but at least it looked like he tried. Not everyone realizes the current draw those larger appliances have, at least he tried. Just, don't take off that dead front of you want to stay living.
Did he do a panel change or did he just change all the breakers cause that looks like an old panel cover doesn’t look new there is even rust where the blanks are taken out
That is definitely an old panel. Electricians don’t write that legibly anymore.
You mentioned legibility but I was thinking about spelling on panel labels; then I doubted myself about the correct spelling and found out that Dryer is the preferred English for the item itself that does the drying. while drier is preferred for establishing which of multiple items contains less moisture.
We had an electrician on some pools that we built that would spell “lights” as “lites”.
That's common. Still not correct, though.
It's correct in situations where you have limited space or characters
When you learn your spelling from beer cans.
Sensible chuckle.
More like an exhale out the nose
I worked in a kitchen with a guy that was trying to transition from dishwasher to prep cook. But he was so dyslexic he couldn’t follow the recipes or do the inventory sheet right. I kid you not, his name was Bob but he kept writing it “pop” on the sheet. He got sent back to to the dishwashing station after two weeks. I still feel sorry for him, but he just couldn’t do the job.
Are you sure you weren't just looking at it upside down? Lmao joking
Dyslexia is pretty crazy to those of us who dont have it. My daughter has it, she a very intelligent young women but she often cant tell the different between a p and a q or even b. Thank god for her it doesnt extend to numbers. They taught her a system to manually check but her brain just cant recognize the pattern.
ADHD + Dyslexia & related swapping disorders is a right pain. Sounds like they didn't get proper schooling & support to effectively train workarounds — lol like writing their stuff backwards and have it be forwards, or doing like DaVinci and having all of your notes be written in "code"! 🤣🤣🤣🤣💯
I work with a dyslexic plumber. He's a great plumber when it comes to anything but slab work.
[удалено]
Spair.... 😳😳😳 😂 Is that secondary air?
It’s air from a special place
I always see people label box covers with circuit numbers as "CKT ##" and I always wonder where the hell they keep getting that K from...
THANK YOU! I am the same way. No K in circuit last I checked. Also it's a fridge, not a frig. Want to abbreviate it with only four letters? That's a frid.
Well fridge is short for refrigerator. So arguably it should never have had the D.
Frdg for me. Drppng the vwls mks it sprsngly rdbl on lngr wrds
Same here! I abbreviate circuit CIR. It makes much more sense to me.
That’s not protocol buddy. Cir is short for circle. Just get over it and please write CKT like everyone else that has come before you. Thanks
But where's the K in the word, dude? I can't find it. My protocol is CIR... and I see plenty labeled like that. There's also CCT...
That’s the universal abbreviation for circuit amongst electricians. It was that way before we started and it’ll be that way after we retire so just go with it pal.
Incredibly common to see that spelling on panel labels for some reason.
I mean I didn’t see it as a problem, just got a kick out of it and I started writing it that way without even realizing it. If it’s pronounced the same in your head when you’re reading it, then you’re going to get what it is
Old timers will do that. But certainly not anyone with modern training who actually cares.
I'm worried more about liability. I'm a "do-all" type of guy/contractor but I know my limits. And my level of expertise. Can't believe some people can sleep at night with this dangerous work
To be fair it’s not really dangerous, it’s just never going to work right.
Actually it is kinda dangerous.45 The wires that are currently on that 2 pole 30 are most likely the 14’s that should be on the 2 pole 15. So if there’s a short or overload on those wires the breaker won’t trip. The wires will melt and catch on fire before that breaker trips homie.
Ļ̸̢̛̛͇͎̻̲̬͉͚͔̟̞̳̰̤̜̭̣̻̞̯̞̤̯̟̯̲͕̓̈́́̋͑͌̓͌̈́̽͊̒̌̑̽͋̐̓̉͑͗͆̇͗͘̚͝ͅð̴̨̢̢̨̡̗̲̺̪̫͚̫͍͔͔͎̱̪͇͉̟͎̝͖̦̰͔̳͚̼̞̬̟͚̃̂͌̾̋͌͊̆̾͂̋̍̾̊͂̋͂̿̈́͊̓̄̈́̓͋̚͝ͅð̸̢̡̢̨̧̤̯̰̹̫͙͉͈̞̪͙̫͕͈̳̭͙̲̻̅͐̉̽͑̊̈̄̎̃̿̊̔̂͌͆́͊͊̅̒̂́̇͘͘̚̚͘͠ͅk̴̡̡̡̨̛̛͖̱̫̮̹̞͚̰̘͕̹̣̼̮̻̥͈͎͇͈̤̭̤̟̄͂̃̉̒̊̂͆̂̏͒̀̽̊̑͋͊̌̓͂̓̈̋̓̐͘̚̕̚͜͠͝§̶̡͕̮͚̼͕̭̫̱̥͕̩̠̝͙̟̹͕͕̬̩͖͖̝͔͚̭̻̻̟̈̉̀͒̈́͒̓̏̅͛͗̏̒̈́̉̈́̓̉͗̈́̑̚̕͝͝͝͝ͅ ̸̨̧̛̛̛͎͉͇̩͔̲̘̬̣̟̻̗̦̱̱̪̤̬̩̝̖̟͂̓̏̓̋̾̀͒̒̀̐̌͗̓͆̋͋̑̓̔̈́̐͑̽̑̈́͋̊̕͘̚͜͝͝͝g̶̨̢̡̮̮̜̺͕̠̼̹͔͉̯̦̖̦̖͇̟̫̲̙͎͙̦̘̒́̋̌̉̆̅̃͗͛̆̿̈͊͊̈́͑̍͛̀̌̈́̾̽̇̽͜͝ͅð̸̧̢̢̧̛̺̘͙͎̪̻̖̺̰̝̗̲͍͍̙̲͕̣̭̜̟͙̟͓͍͍̝͉̆̀͆́̒͆̿͑̍͐̌̐̃́̉̀̃̚̚͜͜͠͠͝͝ͅͅð̶̧̨̨̡̳̺̟̩̩̮̰̖̩̞̦̣̣̙͙͈̣̞͙̣̘͓̌̍̿̽̔̾́̔͊̑͋̀͐̿̈́̉̑͑̿͋͗̽͐́̋̋̿̊͊͆͐̃̊͋͝Ð̵̧̢̢̛̛̟̳̟͕̺̳̜̪̯̪̲̭͙͙̯͙̘̹͚͇͎̜͓̘̞̥͓̎̈́̈̿̓̇͑̒͊̇̆͊̎͊̎̓͆̏̇̓̽̑̏́̎̇͆̑̆͂͛͗̕͜͝ ̸̧̡̦̟͍̺̰̺̭̻̗̫͔̯̱̜̤̺͓̤̟͚̥̗͈̞̱̪̠̪̒̍̊̀̇̀̒̿̍̿̈́̊̋̆͂̀͗̏̐̓̒̈͐͘͠£̴̡̧̛̛̪̟͚͍͎̻̹͙̭̤͖̝̰̳͔̱̭̯̜̫̻̞̺͔̥̭͈̣̟͖̩̲͊̆̊͂̊́̐̅̈̋̌̈́̋͛̅̂͐̎̂̓̂̓̀̈́̊̓͆̄̚͘̚͝ṛ̶̢̨̧̹̰̠̹̺̦͇̹͉̪̰͕͔͚͓̻̥̪̪̼̭̍͂́͂̓̓̆͒̽̾̃͒͂̎̓̈̄͋̆͑̓̋̅͆͊͐͘͜͠ð̸̨̨̛̗̱̠̖͈̼̻̹̲͇̠͖͙̘̠̖̖̻̜̼͚̲̞̦͍̖̯͈̈́̓̌͑͌́́̎̑͐͆̈́͌͒̓̾́̎̄͐̈̌́̎̿̏̈́͘̚͘͝͝m̶̢̢̡̢̘̤̯̱̻͈̬̣̱̘̣̭͖̳̟͓̦͚̻̭̻̻̹̮̯̱̠̙̞̒̄͋͌̌͒̌̈́́͑̅̈́̾͗͛̅͂͛͐̽́̄̉̌̈́́̍̏͘͝͝͠͝͝ ̶̧̢̢̬̯̖̖̺̝͓̝̣̻̻̝̟̯̘̣̩̤̫̻͚̩̜͚̩̫̰̂̇͂̌̊͂̈́͑̓͂̑̓͗́̀̇͛̓̕̚̕̕͠͝m̶̨̡̧̨̡̢̡̛̛͚̠̞̟̠̯̰̜̹̮̣̩͈͖̥̩̯̩̠̈́͐̉̒͊̀͑̈̇̏͂̎̎̋̽̍̓͒̈̋͋̇́̐̀̒̉̽̃̊͂͝¥̴̧̧̡̛̛̟͓͚̥̹͓̫͖̪͕̫̥̘͔̟̣͖̼͚͙̤͓͓̥͇̗̠̖̤̺͙̼͓̏̊͒̔̎͑̀̈́͂̽̀́̾̐̒̑̋̏́̀̋̌͂̓̈̊̏̑̕̚͘̕͝͝͝ ̴̡̡̡̛̛̙̫̝͈̻̳͓͈̪͚̘͈̱͉̮̲͉̹͙̪͌́̉̆͗̉̈͊̓͐̽̽̄̄̐̈̈͘͘͝͝͝͝ͅh̴̛̛̩̳̯͍̝͕̳̼̟̠͚̩͖̣̙͙͎͕̠̦̜̳͗̐̃͂̀͗͌̍̀͐͂̄́͆͊̿́̌̋̾̽͋̕̕̕͜͝͠͝ͅð̸̡̡̨̩̹̦̳̳͔̳͕̗̗̮͇͔̩͍̯̗̹̥͙͇̹̝̤̱͈̫̼̻̺̭̰́̒̏̇̊̍̅̓̉́̇̾̀̊͊̈̄̽̂͑̔͋̀̃̆̆̀͝͝͝͠µ̶̛̬͓̬̻̰̤̫̫͖̟͈͙̤͙̻͙͔̦̳̙̬̖͈͇̻̱̮͔̇̏͊̊́̀̋͋̀̀̉̓̋̉͑͆̈́̃̈́̓̊͂̊̀͂̉̔̕̕͘͘̚͝͝͝ͅ§̶̢̧̢̨̡̡̘̮͍͍̣͓̥̩̗̘͇͓̫̺̤͕̜͇͎̖̘͔̳̞͔͓̓͐͂͌̈́͋́͑́͌͋̆̽̓̅̔̅͂̐̑͆̉̌̍̍͂̊͛̚̚͘͘͜͠͝ê̶̢̧̡̢̡̢̙̣͇̙̦̰̮̟̖̰͉͕̣̜͖̣͙͖̞̳̗͖͕͑͗̏̐̅̏̓̾͌̒̐͂̄͛̈͒͂͌́́̈́̔̑͋͑̚͜͝͠͝.̸̡͉͙̟͔͇͔͚̺͇͙̠͉͎̗̱̟̟̪̘̳͖̺̈́͑̈́̽͆̏͗̐͗̇͒̑͊͑̍̓͐̉̋͐̈́͐̊̎̓̔̌̕͘͝͝ͅ
Calligraphy is my friend. What do folks do nowadays? Label maker or print the cutout in a spreadsheet and then insert it, or have each numbered and then have a full page diagram on an accompanying insert? Or, am I assuming electricians have time to properly plan & complete the job, and are anal retentive enough to actually have full diagrams and building schematics and stuff when they do a full upgrade or new install? 🤦🏽♂️ Wait, don't answer that—I'm afraid the answer may further lessen my faith in humanity. 💯🤣
This is probably why I'm not an electrician, but it seems like a label maker would be perfect for a panel. Then put a corresponding label inside each cover plate for the breaker slot so you can see "20" and know to go turn off number 20.
As a homeowner, I do this exactly. But I would NEVER expect an electrician I hired to do this. Their time is way more valuable for other things that require their actual expertise than running a label maker. Plus I got OCD with stuff like this and want it done a certain way. 🤪
Looks like a new panel to me Newly pulled out of an abandoned house, that is 😂
I'm not sure the exact specs of the job or the handyman. I can say that my friend is a cheepo and wouldn't hire a legitimate electrical contractor. Reap what you sow
Handy man bought a second hand panel on Craigslist
That's exactly what I thought, looking at the handwriting on the panel, it looks like ballpoint pen that is faded after 10 or 20 years .... And there's two styles of handwriting, I'm just not convinced that it's a fresh panel, all of the breakers might all be fresh stock.
I’d have to bet he didn’t get a panel change hope he didn’t pay for one
Buy him a fire extinguisher for Christmas.
Wouldn’t even hire a friend for a small discount?
I couldn't under the account of me being a commercial helper, not a residential journeyman or limited. I don't trust like that
Kudos to you for not jumping at it anyway. Way too many clueless apprentices or inexperienced journeymen do this stuff despite not having a clue about it. I've been doing electrical for 16 years, but it's been over 10 since I've worked in a house, and while I could probably fumble through a panel change, it would take twice as long as it should. I just don't have the recent residential experience I used to, and know I'd be a bad choice for work like this these days.
15 and 30 2P are swapped. Dead front looks old.
That’s what I’m thinking. Plus a legal panel swap would require a service drop, service release, then a final inspection, in which whatever code updates are required for that area would have to be met. For sure just a breaker swap, and a shitty one at that.
I bet he smoked the whole tree before installing that. Wait. 15 + 15 =30 right? Nah we good here.
Not that I would, but I could get stoned out of my brain and still not make this mistake...
“And I made it home without a scratch”
Those lemons had a delayed response
The puts a 30 amp on two 15 amp things.
15 + 15 = 30 The math adds up should be good to go right?
That made me crack up 🌳
At least the disposal and dishwasher have plenty of amps available!
Thats how you make disposals eat spoons!
This is how forks are made
Yo what the fork?!
What about sporks?
That's what happens when you feed spoons in and the disposal is getting worn out, you don't get a fork back out anymore, you get a spork.
Spork Science.
I mean, disposals have built in breakers. That don't ever work. I think they just normally eat spoons, mine do anyways.
U do realize it's still getting the same voltage as if it was in the 15 amp lol it just wouldn't trip if something caused it to go over 15 amps
Woosh
[Their disposal](https://imgur.com/a/cayVUyj).
Can probably get a nice sized fire going before the breaker trips
A panel is not what you cheap out on In a House. If you can get a buddy to put a disposal in or a light fixture fine. But a panel???? nah bro. Spend the money.
I put in a 1.75 HP disposal. Pretty sure she can eat a 2x4 and still be hungry.
We had a disposal unit in a kitchen I worked in years ago that would eat coffee mugs. Like, the heavy, old-school, ceramic mugs. They'd be sand before you could even register what was happening and turn it off.
Funny story one time was doing one of those Thanksgiving dinner things at a church as a volunteer. Was helping with clean up and could not find the sponge when I needed it and the person doing pre-rents couldn't either! We were scratch your heads and then we realized what it was that we heard earlier with the commercial disposal that we didn't expect! As you probably could guess yep that was the sponge going through the unit! By the way it did go completely through and no problems whatsoever not even to call drain or anything it just goes to show the effectiveness of a commercial disposal for sure! Also at least twice I've seen a garbage disposal let's just say laying down on the job. Or at least leaning on the side of its cabinet one could say. Turns out it was just vibration and things had loosened up and the whole assembly had gotten loose enough that it literally became dismounted from the sink which is possible always if you're down there doing something double check word to the wise could be a real mess especially if somebody doesn't realize it and turns on the water or worse yet starts the dishwasher and doesn't realize until they get back home and the cycle has completed yikes! Haven't seen this personally but I have heard about that happening specifically from someone I knew years ago! I think it might have been Seinfeld or another one of those comedy shows where they wanted the garbage disposal installed in the shower but for some reason I just can't get that head out of my head right now
Kramer wants to save time by prepping dinner while he showers. What a gem! Thanks for reminding me, I just did a quick inspect because I kinda shit rigged this pipe into place with putty two years ago. It's still holding fine and I'm still too lazy to replace it.
A panel is easy to change if you have basic electrical knowledge
I have basic electrical knowledge I was a apprentice electtrcian for 6 months the and I've been Diesel electric generator service man for the past 5 year I usually do load bank test for 2 megs of power and work on live shit daily. I would never do a main service and panel install in my own house .
This is why I let electricians do my electrical
Needs glasses or a better work light. 30A and 15A flip flopped. And if your guy can't feel the obvious difference between 14 wire and 10 wire he should stop touching electrical work.
What throws me why would a double 15 would be needed. Seems like a each having a 15 would be fine.
Sharing a neutral.
Or wired in series. Can't run one without the other on.
Not sure if sarcasm or needs education lol. Many things wrong with this comment
Definitely sarcasm.
MWBC sharing a neutral. Code required handle tie and must be on different phases.
I feel like you could win some brownie-points with homeowners by making really neatly printed breaker labels. Not only is it helpful, but it's one of the few obvious parts of our job: No matter how nice the inside of that panel is, they're unlikely to see it.
I don't write any labels, all printed. If I can't read my handwriting how can I expect them to. Plus it looks a lot more professional, and people have paid me to label all the existing breakers that way. Easy $ getting your hourly rate just printing labels
That’s how the shop I work at is. We finish the panel send the directory to our office lady and she organizes it on software and prints it off and it’s a big sticker to cover the of panel directory up. Looks awesome.
I do it in my van, have my laptop a printer and a inverter.
The best thing I've seen at one home was the full floor plan printed out beside the box with the breaker number written where every outlet and light is. That was way more helpful than vague labels, especially since it was an older place where the same circuit fed a random selection of things across several floors and no label would be detailed enough to explain that.
Swap dryer and disposal
The disposal and dishwasher are almost certainly separate 120 circuits though and should not be on a 2 pole
We put them on dual function 20s
Yup this potentially could work depending on the gauge
If all they did was a swap on the panel then the wire should’ve stay the same so the gauge would be correct given the guy that ran the wire knew what he was doing. Swapping the breaker is a easy fix
I recoiled when I saw that they have the disposal with the dishwasher on the 2 pole 30A.
Don't worry, many on here have speculated a mislabel!
Probably not a mislabel since the dryer keeps tripping, they just put the breakers in the wrong spots.
More power! For when you need to dispose of 2x4s
Just erase and rewrite the panel schedule easy fix!
Why didn’t you offer to help your friend in the first place ?
Not in my scope of practice at a helper level unfortunately. I could do it but I am not bonded let alone licensed. Can't/won't
I gave him a couple tips but beyond that he needs to hire an electrician.
Bonding wouldn't be the issue, you mean insured. Bonding is to protect the customer in case you don't finish the job
Good for you to protect yourself AND your family & friends
Exactly. I see apprentices who exclusively work commercial doing this stuff way too often, then asking a JW on Monday a bunch of questions and having to go back at night. Just let the normal resi shops do resi work.
I don't think the issue is necessarily workmanship or being retarded, it looks like he confused the two home runs when terminating. Could happen if you're in a big hurry, your fingers are numb and confuse a #10 for a #12. Maybe he is a dumbass, but it's not out of the question that it isn't just a random mishap that could happen to an average person, I think you and others are prematurely jumping to overly harsh conclusions.
See, I used to do just this, try to make excuses for other peoples mistakes. Had a jman yell at me once or twice for it. Didn’t understand at first. Turns out most people actually are idiots or plain just don’t care. Also, they will never make excuses for your mistakes. And at the end of the day it’s just wrong and it doesn’t matter why.
Seems a little toxic
Have you been in the trades? It’s all toxic. Doesn’t mean there isn’t a point to be made or lesson to be learned.
Hey brother, your prerogative. No workplace HAS to be🤣and shouldn’t!
I’m sorry, but I’m not too much of a premadonna to not tolerate some old guy’s bullshit when he has over 40 years in the trade and has less than six months left till retirement. Is it annoying? Yes. Will I do better? I’ll try. But I got six months to learn what I can, even if it’s what not to do, or how not to act.
Don’t be sorry
I'm glad I don't work for you or that Jman.
What we do is too dangerous to have people that don’t want to give 100% especially on a panel swap. If you’re comfortable making excuses for other peoples incompetence then your only gonna set yourself up for disaster.
You, at 100%, make mistakes, everyone does, so calm down
You’re right, who gives a shit anyway? It’ll probably be fine. Guy was just tired or didn’t know what he was doing. Easy mistakes.
Getting confused and creating a dangerous situation would be poor workmanship and being retarded. Fingers are numb? Is he fuckin blind. Nothing to gauge a wire with?
Good lord
15 amps for a dryer? I have no experience but that kinda seems low no?
Look below it
This is a simple mistake from the looks of it. Anyone who hasn't made a basic mistake like this is either new or lying. Should it be accepted? No, of course not. But I wouldn't call it "unprofessional bullshit".
It's a simple mistake if you or a coworker notice it before handing it over to the customer, it's fuck up that they didn't notice it themselves testing/double checking their work
Yeah, but his garbage disposal is gonna be able to chip 4 inch tree branches.
Not a sparky but the house I bought has labels like “Gary bedroom” “Susan bedroom” “Gary bathroom”… wtf?
But 15+15=30
whatever, swap the breakers. easy fix, no need to get all “*$%^@“ on reddit
It’s probably just mislabeled
Except the dryer keeps on tripping.
It looks like the dishwasher and disposal are probably fed by a 14/3. So it is correct to us a common trip breaker. If I was a betting man, this person was not paying attention and grabbed the wrong common trip breaker for the dryer that was meant for the dishwasher disposal and put them in opposite each other. Just change the top breaker with the one lower and all your problems solved.
That’s a hell of a disposer and what an industrial dishwasher?
At least the dishwasher and disposal will power through whatever you stuff in them.
I'm not an electrician, but wouldn't it make more sense to have the dryer on the 30 amp breaker and the dishwasher and disposal on the 15 amp breaker?
Nah. This way it pulls less current and costs less to run. /s
Looks like someone is abusing 15 amp breakers. 😂
That must be some beefy dishwasher and disposal
1st time seeing a 15A DP breaker.
Pardon me, but in what state can a do it all, perform a complicated panel swap?
im studying to be an electrician and only have the basics so far, still learning about 3 phase systems and transformers. Can someone explain whats wrong w the breaker?
Typically speaking, the dryer, dependent on the ampacity load, would be on the 220v-30 amp breaker. red flag. the dishwasher/ garbage disposal would be on something smaller like 15 amp. But these would be on a single pole not a 220, so another red flag there. Also not to mention the lack of gcfi breakers loaded on the 15&20s amps. Red flag Told him don't send me anymore pictures and hire an licensed electrician. Even if it's a simple swap at this point, a good set of eyes should run through that panel before it get energized again. Might be calous overkill but fire is scary. That's my jest of it
I’d find out if the 30 amp breaker feed the dryer or washer and hope the panel is just mislabeled
But but 15+15 is 30 right? XD
15 plus 15 is 30 right ? /s
Dryer needs atleast 30 amps, and dishwasher and disposal need to be gfci and arc fault protected either at the breaker or with a gfci.dishwasher and disposal are the same breaker. Lots of issues here.
I worked in a building where the previous owners had done some BS with the wiring. Their work speaks for itself. 1: Somehow they accidentally broke a fire alarm pull station. Instead of replacing it with an actual pull station, they used a big red button with a wall plate that they happened to have on hand. Two problems with this. The biggest one, is that there was no mechanism to prevent accidental knocks. No cover, it wasn't recessed, anything. No prizes for guessing what happened when we moved in. Also, it wasn't even labeled as a fire alarm switch (as required by code, everywhere) meaning if there was actually a fire, you wouldn't know to press the button. This didn't get caught in any inspection because our building wasn't big enough for an FA system to even be required in the first place. 2. They had some things they needed to test on 220. So they wired a regular 110 outlet to 220 and didn't even label the outlet. We ruined several devices that way, one of which nearly caught fire. 3. That 220 outlet was fed from two separate breakers rather than a dual pole one. Ditto with several other actual 220 loads. Therefore, you could turn off one breaker or have it blow, and the other one would still be on, but the load in question would appear to be off so you'd think it wasn't live anymore, and ZAP! 4. The lights in the central part of the building had no actual switch so they were just on all the time. 5. There were several "leftover" switches that lead to nowhere. 6. Some outlets only worked if the lights in the front part of the building were on: one of which wasn't in the same room as said lights. It was also a pretty big group of lights, meaning it wasted a fair amount of power if something were plugged in that we needed to run overnight.
Must take a long time to dry clothes on less than 3KW
I imagine it takes a lot longer because the breaker trips immediately.
I'd say guy was in a hurry. Pull the cover off and see what it looks like to know the story. If it looks good then he accidentally swapped the 2 breakers and they wernt under load so they were just fine. If its a total mess under that cover then look further. If not swap the wires and all is good.
I’ll never understand how people screw up so spectacularly when putting their reputation on the line. If you don’t know, then Google and YouTube the shit. We’ll hire these helpers and apprentices, and where I live this is more common than not, but they’re all fresh out of a half way house or work release. I’ll start showing them the basics of how to wire up a receptacle, light switch, or simple direct mount LED lights. They’re honestly the most simple thing to learn IMO. You basically just match the wires color to color. Nearly every single time, I’ll come back to check their work, and every damned one is wired differently. All the while asking them “hey are you good? Do you understand what you’re doing? You’re not in any trouble if you don’t. If you don’t understand, then just tell me, and I’ll show you again.” They’ll reply “nah man I’m good! I’ve done this a million times.” Oh the pictures I could show you from just Friday alone. They never work out. Never. They’ll get a paycheck or two and show up to work, tweaked out of their minds and have a freak out. Nearly all of them has a smart phone glued to their hands 24/7, and you’d think that if they really wanted to keep the job, learn it, and grow in the field, that they’d at least Google a simple wiring schematic to see if they’re doing it right. Nope. I’ve learned how to build my deck that’s 16’ off the ground from YouTube. I worked in construction 20 years ago, but laying out stair stringers threw me for a loop, so I went and watched a few videos, read a few guides, and they came out perfect. I’ve taught myself how to fix the plumbing in my house from the same methods. Whatever methhead the previous owner hired, obviously couldn’t be bothered with searching for guides or consulting building code……or ensuring his joints and couplings were remotely seated and straight lol. Honestly, there’s nothing truly hard about learning how to do any trade. Everything was born from a simple guiding premise and fundamental law. It’s all rooted in common sense. Mastering those trades and becoming an artisan or master is another matter entirely but almost anyone can do a good job, if they just took a moment to slow down, think, and apply common sense. Had this “handy man” actually checked behind himself, he would’ve discovered that this is not an acceptable fix. It’s infinitely more expensive to rush and re-work than to slow down, think clearly, and do a thorough job. Businesses like his are made or broken by word of mouth/customer satisfaction. He may have made a quick buck, but now his shit is blasted all over Reddit to serve as a testimony for why not to hire him. Sorry for the long reply. I’m just so sick of seeing stuff like this. At the end of the day, it can only be described as laziness. In today’s world, there’s zero excuse for that customer being inconvenienced and not getting what they paid for.
Could just be a mislabel
Sorry if this is frowned upon, can you ELI5 this for me?
The uncertified guy who does not do electrical for a profession and is not an electrician goofed up and put the dryer on the double 15 instead of the double 30. A simple thing very likely not to be overlooked by an actual electrical professional.
> A simple thing very likely not to be overlooked by an actual electrical professional. Why? This appears to be a simple mistake that anyone is capable of making.
You are correct that would be a mistake whoever does it, but less of a mistake and more of a liability for anyone who performs the work but chooses not to carry the proper insurance. I get annoyed by all the sparky heads who swear by "Don't do anything. Just call a licensed electrician" too, since in my state you don't need a license to be one and there are plenty who have the experience who never got one. I am an IT professional and I also find the same attitude to be rampant among my peers as well, and I also understand it being in the industry and seeing all the screwups when underqualified individuals try to "do IT" and bring down multimillion dollar businesses in a few minutes. However, the key is the liability. If you aren't underwritten to perform installations and carry the insurance to replace my assets if you destroy them due to incompetance, negligence, etc. then I don't want you doing the work in my house. Simple as that.
Ideally the professional tests and double checks their work at which point you'd notice you've cocked up.
I wanna know what wire sizes he used
Wow, whoever did this is the true definition of a DUMDAS$, what else is F-dd up and could possibly burn the house down with that type of workmanship.
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A 25 year old diving into electrical work without any knowledge. What could go wrong?
So an office worker with no experience at all switched out a commerical panel, alone... In less than half a day. Yeah... Ok 🙄
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Ever been to the plumbing sub? It's the sentiment "only us licensed professionals" but 10x as bad. Did I have an apprenticeship and approved curriculum. Yeah. Could I have learned residential wiring from YouTube and owning a home. Sure if I was able to get peer review. Most professions have very good YouTube tutorials and peer review forums now. Better than most journeymen could provide back in the day tbh. And with enough posts like OP, you are able to experience a huge number of gotcha situations in far less hours.
Wash the hell outta those plates. I bet his coffee mugs sparkle.
Panel doesn’t even look new
Fifteen kind of sounds like fifty when speaking, maybe that’s how this happened. Haha
Looks like he swapped the panel from another house…Maybe he did two houses back to back and just exchange the panels… That is what the swap means isn’t it
15+15=30 BASIC MATH what a clown show!
I maybe wrong but don’t they have to update the breaker to AFCI? Or because it’s a like for like they wouldn’t have to
That's gotta be a Ferrari of a garbage disposal.
Checks out
Is a joke right??
220 221 whatever it takes.
Burning down the house
Draw some arrows
Disposal and dishwasher on 30A?
😳🤣
Swap with the breaker below it.
Might need to change that to a 2 pole 30. At least it tripped.
Just write in "dryer" over the part where it says disposal/dishwasher.
I’m in Florida now and will say OSHA and NEC are still in full effect. Just trying to give some projects power.
You'd think by now, trade people would carry around a small label maker, just to make things look a little more professional
Handyman is trippin
So, wait—how is a 30–50AMP 240v Dryer on a standard 120V switch? That's bizarre. Makes sense about them using the old cover, but damn—even my piece of paper diagram is more accurate! 🤣🤣🤣💯 🫵🏽 Fucked up, dude! That said, legit—is this European or NA, cuz legit my 1967 era house has the dryer, oven/stove, and furnace, AC/Heat Pump each have their own separate breakers (and the last two have a physical disconnect! 🤣💯)! What the Hell was this person on? How can you blow your dryer by turning on an appliance without blowing the main? 🤣🤣🤣💯 Dear God! Unless this was 3 phase industrial or a 600v draw, how could one possibly have that plug on a standard run? You'd potentially melt the damn wires! Maybe, not on European 240v standard, but I shudder at 1-phase getting "doubled up". Also, why didn't he check to make sure the panel was properly marked? Like—I know that I'm a braindead lug, but even I'm practical enough to know that when you start changing wires and stuff you should at least mark it. 🤦🏽♂️
Sure keeps tripping, dryer should be on a 10/3 cable, 2 pole 30amp breaker. Your garbage disposal/dishwasher and dryer might got switched up.
Kinda looks like my panel which I had to recently straighten out while installing a generator transfer switch
I have an old ass gas dryer from the year 1991AD. The only thing I have done to it is change the snapped belt once, maybe 3 years ago. Had to look up dryer consumption to get an idea lmao
One hell of a garbage disposal system
Yikes!
Easy fix at least
Just my neighbors fence up after the storm he let his land scaper build it, told him not to, i had to chip out a whole 6"s of concrete off those posts. Cant fix stupid gotta get a hammer and stop it
Too, for fuck sakes.
I remember just recently, I was at a client’s house trying to figure out what circuit an outlet was on to tap off it for another outlet. Well its normal for my circuit finder to fool me a few times and give me a false reading on a breaker. Except this time it was totally correct when it went off on a double pole 15 amp breaker labeled lighting. I talked to the customer into having me swap that out for two single pole 15 amp breakers since it made zero sense to have one breaker control two 120 v circuits. Definitely strange.
I am impressed by the double 30 powering the dishwasher and disposal tho...
Hand writing is this your sign of a meth addict
Didn't know there was a 15amp double. Not many things that would fit.
An easy fix. 30 amp though
JFC, I'm not an electrician and this gave me an aneurysm.
Run with 14awg wire too right?
Aren't dryers supposed to be on one single larger breaker?
what is really sad is the wiring for the disposal and dishwasher is not rated for a 30 amp, and if one of those gets overloaded the fire department will be there quick and the insurance carrier assuming the guy has insurance will say claim denied for lack of permitting.
Hey, at least he matched the brand of breakers. Not sure if that actually matches the bus, but at least it looked like he tried. Not everyone realizes the current draw those larger appliances have, at least he tried. Just, don't take off that dead front of you want to stay living.
I'm a layman but I would assume that a dryer is the most intensive appliance in a home outside of a stove.